Is it necessary to be immersed within a culture to write about it?
Is there no advantage to writing from what may be considered a critical distance?
I've often heard/read music writers claim that there is some sort of inner sanctum where only those who are completely isolated within a given scene can understand it. Personally, I find that insulting, and I find it both a bit Modernist and xenophobic. Isn't music about flux? Isn't there always an exchange between here and there, this and that? Okay, what I am saying is, while trying to avoid sounding obnoxious, "presence vs. absence?" Isn't this a false debate? Don't all these things feed on and off of each other?
― Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Saturday, 6 January 2007 23:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 January 2007 23:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― mole (emekars), Sunday, 7 January 2007 00:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Good Dog (Good Dog), Sunday, 7 January 2007 00:12 (seventeen years ago) link
I think this also depends on the forum and its audience. If you're writing for music geeks or would-be music geeks, you definitely shouldn't write down to them-- though of course, as you identify, the difficulty is not alienating non-geeks in doing so.
One nice thing about the Internet is that people tend to skim over references they don't get, anyway, and those who are actually interested can easily look things up. I like writing that's on my "instructional level," as English teachers would say; that's how I learn stuff.
― marc h. (marc h.), Sunday, 7 January 2007 00:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― rock and roll for the rock and roll soul (nate_patrin), Sunday, 7 January 2007 00:44 (seventeen years ago) link
"Schuller praises Rollins on "Blue 7" for the use of motivic development exploring and developing melodic themes throughout his three solos, so that the piece is unified, rather than being composed of unrelated ideas. Rollins also improvises using ideas and variations from the melody, which is based on the tritone scale, and strongly suggests bitonality (the melody by itself is harmonically ambiguous, simultaneously suggesting the keys of Bb and E). Also notable is Max Roach's solo, which uses a triplet rhythm figure later imitated by Rollins, again helping to give the piece a coherent feel."
Agh help
― rock and roll for the rock and roll soul (nate_patrin), Sunday, 7 January 2007 01:04 (seventeen years ago) link
You might like it?
I don't know.
― Andy_K (Andy_K), Sunday, 7 January 2007 01:05 (seventeen years ago) link
Or maybe this is what I was getting at was this:
Many music writers seem to think that their proximity to artists and a certain culture makes them more privy to some "special" knowledge, or that it speaks something about them as a person.
My real question is this:
Isn't that just conducive to a whole lot of reacharounds and blowing sunshine up people's asses?
― Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Sunday, 7 January 2007 02:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 7 January 2007 03:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 January 2007 03:33 (seventeen years ago) link
I read the latter. And mounting my hobby-horse, or one of them, this is traditional a huge problem/limitation of pop music journalism from glossy magazine writers to plugged-in indie scenesters.
Cameron asks good follow-up questions too. I'd say it's possible to be immersed in a cultural scene and still maintain a critical distance. Not only possible, but necessary. And I don't think critics shouldn't write feature stories, quite the contrary it broadens your perspective and keeps you HUMBLE. Where tje distance comes in is on the personal level, when a journalist starts developing extra-professional relationships the conflicts begin.
Not saying writers should be dis-courteous pricks in the name of integrity, but in my experience this issue is blithely ignored.
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 7 January 2007 12:56 (seventeen years ago) link
(to be fair i haven't read thr rest of the wiki piece, let alone schuller's original -- but i have read a lot of schuller down the years, and he is much better at providing a classical-style MAP to non-classical performance and composition than he is at explaining to outsiders which places on the map they might want to visit, and what they will get out of it when they do)
(my main issue with quasi-academic musicology is that -- to me -- it's only STEP ONE, with the all-important step two being the interweave of the music thus analysed with the writer's and/or the reader's life -- ie stepo one = "this is what's going on" and step two = "this is why it matters to know this", but it's such a MONUMENTAL step one in terms of time and study invested, and lots if not most of the folks who do that investing don't ever seem to move beyond it)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 7 January 2007 18:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― rock and roll for the rock and roll soul (nate_patrin), Sunday, 7 January 2007 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link
"drum & bass" vs "drum and bass" vs "drum&bass" vs "DnB"
which seat can i take??
also:
"track listing" vs "tracklisting" vs "track list" vs "tracklist"
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 10:27 (eleven years ago) link
drum and bass
tracklist
title track
long player
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 11:42 (eleven years ago) link
I say drum'n'bass.
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 11:51 (eleven years ago) link
Rhythm section.
― Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 12:10 (eleven years ago) link
"I would suggest an archive search but I'm not sure of the best way to begin."
OH SNAP
― scott seward, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 13:06 (eleven years ago) link
BOOYA!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrh52eZR8X1qdm61io1_1280.jpg
― scott seward, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 13:07 (eleven years ago) link
CAMERON OCTIGAN,
http://essentiallove.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/BeenServedFront2-1024x585.jpg
― scott seward, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
hoo boy i have fun in the morning. okay back to work.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 13:09 (eleven years ago) link
drümmandbaß
― remy bean, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 13:10 (eleven years ago) link
to the original question "How much do you feel that knowing the artist effects your ability to be critical?" I recently wrote a review of an artist that i like and think is a good person. i didn't bash the new album at all, but i did include some criticisms of how it was executed / how well it did the things it seemed to be trying to do / how good the songwriting is / etc. anyway, the review ran but i still haven't linked to it from my fb wall bc i'm fb friends with the musician in question and i know logically that she'll eventually see it, but i feel kinda bad. obv the tension here is between doing right by ppl you like and being totally honest. probably the best thing to do is to stop liking ppl who make music so you never feel conflicted.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
how about "EP" vs "E.P."
― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
Why not C.D. too?
― the fey monster (ledge), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
D&B c'mon
― fauxmarc, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
yet another reason to leave drum'n'bass firmly in the '90s where it belongs
― liberté, égalité, beyoncé (lex pretend), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
I sure can't think of any other genres which follow the same problematic form.
― the fey monster (ledge), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
what about the argument over whether or not you can put the X in HXC if it isn't specifically straight-edge hardcore
(which i'd argue is more 90's belonging - i mean psh whatev i still buy new d+b and mix it in)
― fauxmarc, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
OH GOD D+B THERE'S ANOTHER ONE
drum plus bass
― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
i go by ebay:
1980s(6)
1990s(7)
Pop Vocals(11)
Africa: Sub-Saharan(1)
Alternative & Indie(56)
Ambient & Downtempo(4,321)
Asia: Eastern(9)
Bass(2)
Big Band & Swing(3)
Breakbeat & Big Beat(199)
Celtic(2)
Classic Electronic(167)
Classic R&B(1)
Concerto(2)
Contemporary & Pop R&B(4)
Contemporary Christian(1)
Dance(362)
Dancehall & Ragga(1)
Death Metal(1)
Disco(4,203)
Doom & Sludge(3)
Drum 'n' Bass & Jungle(783)
Dub(9)
East Coast(3)
Electro(897)
Electronica(15,182)
Europe: Eastern(2)
Europe: Western(2)
Experimental Rock(7)
Film Score & Soundtrack(10)
Folk Rock(1)
Freestyle(18)
Funk(13)
Gangsta & Hardcore(4)
Gothic & Darkwave(37)
Grunge(1)
Guitar(1)
Hardcore & Rave(230)
Hard Rock(2)
Honky-Tonk(1)
House(3,869)
Indian Subcontinent(2)
Industrial(58)
Keyboard & Synthesizer(1)
Latin Pop(5)
Mainstream Rock(2)
Motown(3)
Native American(1)
New Wave(12)
Post Rock(6)
Progressive & Art Rock(3)
Punk Rock(4)
Rap Metal(1)
Rock 'n' Roll(1)
Soul(9)
Symphonic & Orchestral(4)
Techno(4,118)
Thrash & Speed Metal(2)
Trance(6,549)
Trip Hop(1,275)
Turntablist(2)
Video Game Score & Soundtrack(1)
Vocal Jazz(1)
Not Specified(43,337)
― scott seward, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
@Mordy Less important to the artist in my experience is whether you liked it or not, and whether you wrote 'well' about it. If you're proud of the writing you should post it.
Kit and bass guitar fwiw
― poxen, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
That has not been my experience. Artists can be very temperamental!
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
To the original question. I don't think writers should write about people they know well. It's a conflict of interest. I have done it myself, but declared the conflict of interest to the commissioning editor, who didn't care. I think, unless your friend only ever makes impeccable music, it's impossible to be completely honest.
― Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link