Sonic Youth new album "Rather Ripped"

That aside, thoroughly uninterested, though I still wonder when they'll get around to the all-acoustic album, at which point they'll be heard regularly at a Starbucks near you and the world finally will catch up with this mad band of grunge pioneers.

has anybody heard a leaked track, live rendition etc?

http://216.70.73.169/gossip/attachment.php?attachmentid=5&d=1142991945

smoove.

-- brontosaur (blancounderscoreguillerm...), March 26th, 2006.

Satan Is Boring

Please choose one: Understatement of a) the thread, b) ILM, c) the western world.

Yes, that's quite a forumla they've got there.

i think the title is funny! neat!

To digress: anybody remember Rather Ripped records in Berkely? Alas, I never shopped there, but used to order from their catalog. Maybe the coolest store in America at one time, they were the hook-up for obscure imports and indies, and were probably the Residents' exclusive retail outlet for awhile. Subject of a notorious bootleg bust in the 70s, too. I hope the SY title is a tribute.

i like it.

they should get pettibon to do their album covers again.

I actually don't mind the cover, though.

last good cover, last good album! *runs really fast from delusional sy fanz. never to return. i promise*

I mean, I don't dislike the covers (or titles) of Bad Moon Rising, Dirty, Jet Set, A Thousand Leaves, or Sonic Nurse, to name a few, but I don't think of them as "good" cover art/titles, either.

http://img186.exs.cx/img186/4378/sonicyouthnyc2jh.jpg

although I have to admit, the way the "u" in Youth is directly below the "n" in Sonic as almost a mirror image is really striking, they should totally use that font for a logo on other stuff.

"A Thousand Leaves" is the every defintion of "crappy Photoshop job".

does surrealism own the copyright on images of the human eye or something? I think you're bringin' your own baggage to the table g

Well, haven't they made a point of having different artists do the covers of the records rather than repeating the same people?

Sister has a great cover.

I actually think NYCGF was one of their better covers, not that they have many great ones. (S: Daydream Nation).

ha! tis true ... again, scott makes me happier.

Goo
Daydream Nation
Experimental Jet Set Trash and No Star
Dirty
Evol
Sonic Nurse
Sister
Confusion Is Sex
A Thousand Leaves
Rather Ripped
NYC Ghosts and Flowers
The Whitey Album
Murray Street
all of the SYR records in a tie, though I like the red one best
Bad Moon Rising
Washing Machine
Sonic Youth EP

beta--was kim gordon a total ice queen when you were eating olives with her? or was she nice to you? i got the chance to hang out with sonic youth backstage once, maybe four years ago. kim was very distant and basically ignored me, thurston was nice enough, jim o'rourke (guess he's not still in the band) was friendly, and i didn't see much of steve. the nicest person in the band was lee ranaldo, who even offered to write my wire article for me when i was feeling stressed out about it. i saw him some other time at a gallery and had a funny conversation with him about "le corbusier concrete lollipops" (i still have one somewhere, in a box!)

thurston gave me an impromptu lecture on strange old improvisors when i 1st met him...but they have all been quite nice to me when i have met them. & xpst

I see M. Perpetua posts here, august company indeed!

I've never ever ever heard of any anecdote involving Lee in which he was anything less than super nice and awesome.

only member of the band I've met was Steve, a few times, including an interview, and he's definitely a nice, low-key bro.

I always keep hoping that someday there's a Sonic Youth album where Lee does a full third of the singing.

the only good ones are Daydream, Goo, Sonic Nurse, and Evol. Sister and Bad Moon were alright on vinyl but the detail is lost on CD. the other covers are all worse than this one.

I always thought it was sort of a funny twist, too -- usually the concert t-shirt has the cover of the album on it, whereas here the cover of the album has the concert t-shirt on it. I'm sure everyone who bought the shirt in summer '95 assumed that when the album was released a couple months later, it would just be the logo from the shirt on that solid blue background.

yeah, that has been the word on the street

Jaymc has a really good point about the album/t-shirt reversal, and now it's making me like the cover more again.

the Jet Set cover is debateable, but if we're talking about the whole packaging, I did like that goofy thing they did where it was a bunch of different cards instead of a booklet in the CD case with alternate covers. I used to shuffle it to a different cover all the time, usually the b&w one of Steve or the one w/ Kim over the green background with the horse.

Brainwasher started a thread on this after me and it got locked, however that one included the tracklisting which I think we should do now, since we're talking about the cover...

01. Reena
02. Incinerate
03. Do You Believe In Rapture?
04. Sleepin Around
05. What A Waste
06. Jams Run Free
07. Rats
08. Turquoise Boy
09. Lights Out
10. The Neutral
11. Pink Steam
12. Or

And I am also enthused about the "more Lee stuff" rumour. An album of songs like "Skip Tracer" or "The Bridge" would be just peachy by me.

Recorded at Sear Sound Studio, additonal ovedubs at Murray Street studio, J Mascis Studio, produced by John Agnello

Album inspired by Blue Oyster Cult, Rembrandts, NBC comedy series Freaks and Geeks (last 2 probably a joke, or even blue oyster cult is a joke also )

Kim Gordon - 5 songs,
Thurson Moore- 6 songs,
Lee Ranaldo - 1 song

Jim o'Rourke left the band

Rather ripped has 12 songs + descriptions:

01. Reena (sung by kim gordon)
02. Incinerate (sung by thurston moore, a propulsive song, a song kinda like teenage roit)
03. Do You Believe in Rapture? (sung by thurston moore
04. Sleepin' Around - (sung by thurston moore, previously called sonic mirror)
05. What a Waste - (described by Kim/Thurston's daughter Coco as a rip of from Friends series theme song of Rembrands)
06. Jams Run Free
07. Rats (sung by lee ranaldo, blends a dark bass grove with thick sheets of guitar, whatever that means)
08. Turquoise Boy (sung by kim gordon, a gentle song dirtied up with bursts of noise at its conclusion)
09. Lights Out
10. The Neutral
11. Pink Steam (Sung by thurston)
12. Or (Sung by Thurston)

Quotes:
Lee Ranaldo:
"Some of it seems to be an extension of the last couple of records, but some hearkens forward into territory and also back to earlier, more dissonant and atonal stuff we've done. There's definitely some rocking songs and also some sound piece-y kind of things that are pretty interesting as well."

so maybe the "more lee" rumour is wrong?

Out of curiosity, can you post a track list/sequence? I just made a quick Lee Ranaldo vs. Sonic Youth playlist (ordered chronologically) to listen too while reading this thread and I think it plays through pretty nicely:

In The Kingdom #19
Lee Is Free
Trilogy
Wish Fulfilment
Saucer-Like
Skip Tracer
Karen Revisited
Paper Cup Exit

I didn't have a copy of "Mote" off of Goo, or I would have stuck it in after "Trilogy".

this is a Lee-themed tape I made a couple years ago, roughly based on the running order I posted in the thread linked a few posts back:

side 1:
1. Skip Tracer
2. Eric's Trip
3. Genetic
4. Paper Cup Exit
5. Pipeline/Kill Time
6. Karen Koltrane
7. Karen Revisited (aka Karenology)
8. Lee Is Free

side 2:
1. Mote
2. Hoarfrost
3. Hey Joni
4. Saucer-Like
5. Wish Fulfillment
6. In The Kingdom #19
7. Rain King
8. I Dreamed I Dream
9. NYC Ghosts & Flowers

I'm really happy with how I sequenced it. I might revise it as a double CD soon, and add the song(s?) from the new album, and "Unwind" (which both Lee and Thurston sing on) and "Lee #2" aka "The Notorious Rockin' Lee," the instrumental from the Goo demos that Lee wrote lyrics for and performed live but never recorded w/ vocals, maybe also the "Wish Fulfillment" and "Mote" demos from the recent reissues.

So my first impressions after listening to 2/3s of it before work...

It's not particularly noisy!

A very superficial comparison would be that many of the songs sound like the quiet bits of Nurse sped up with Steve Shelley's patented motorik.

Those classic rock influences they've hinted at come to the fore! Soaring melodic guitar parts! Lee Ranaldo sounding a bit like Jim Morrison! Definitely a bit of Television on there, particularly songs like Guiding Light.

There are noise elements to it, but they're not as prominent. It's like they're playing noise in another room and it's leaking into the mix.

Just cos it's quieter don't mean it's generic indie rock - it's SY alright. There's a hazy psychedelic mood throughout and weird, dissonant elements.

I like it! But it'll be interesting to see what the noise dudes make of it...

I hope we get a radio promo soon.

Those classic rock influences they've hinted at come to the fore! Soaring melodic guitar parts! Lee Ranaldo sounding a bit like Jim Morrison! Definitely a bit of Television on there, particularly songs like Guiding Light.

this all sounds pretty scrumptious

Sign that woman up as a critic.

Well, isn't the thing that you won't see them go back to any given era? They move onwards. They already did that stuff, man.

It's like they knew exactly what kind of thing I'd been wanting to hear lately... Springtime is here!

sadpanda.jpg

can't see these two statements co-existing, but i'll wait till i hear it. been excited about this album for a while, and the good word has me psyched.

i really have to hear that "church boy" song BTW. i too had always wondered why "rain on tin" and "new hampshire" sounded so similar in spots.

I really like how "Or" ends with a series of lines that sound like interview questions being directed at the band, concluding with "what comes first, the music or the words?"

"aimed at Adult Album Alternative radio"

Come on Matthew, do you really think they're "aiming" at this? I think they're just doing what they want.

http://www.murmurs.com/talk/attachment.php?attachmentid=44582&stc=1

In your mouth, a wad of cash
Moist roll of hundreds
Fingers through your hair
Silver quarters drop
To your pleated skirt
Cannisters of whipped cream
In your sweater pockets
A look of space and total life
Ready....or......not

The plan is to go to DC and hang out
Go see girls rock
How long is the tour?
What time you guys playin'?
Where you going next?
What comes first?
The music...or...the words?

When someone from Sonic Youth goes onstage looking like that, I'll leave.

There are about 20 of them on the last couple SY albums.

"Reena" is terrific. This all sounds very late 80s/early 90s SY, a good thing. It's not surprising or risky or difficult or groundbreaking at all, but I like it so much that I don't care. It also sounds like late-70s rock & pop FM radio.

is that the d00d from Psychotica?!!

had the weekend w/ this album- definitely laid back! not in a bad way. the most agreeable kim songs in a LONG while. i really wish they'd just let Thurston sing everything. his voice's just too perfect. otherwise this album's really seeming like a continuation from the last 2. not bad, not earthshattering. i'd like to see em play it live.

Now that I've had 5 or so days to chew on this album pretty well, I've convinced myself they haven't made one this wholly appealing (to my senses, anyway) since Goo. Murray Street came the closest I guess.

I'm almost embarassed to admit I've never seen them live, but I think this year will be the year. I absolutely must see these songs performed.

One can interpret this in a number of ways.

some changes that sonic youth should do but never will of course:
-change the drummer! those drumming schticks are cliche's and boring.
steve shelly is not a good drummer, face it.
-get a new producer, but not an obvious one, that will break them new grounds, (like phil spector with the ramones or something)
-play guitar as they used to in the 80's - is this really thurston moore and lee renaldo - 2 of the greatest guitarist ever playing here?
or maybe they just got older...

but i guess im in the minority - lots of people will buy the record, and everyone will be happy, and earn more money.
sorry to ruin the party.

'cause i mean no one's ever heard of phil spector! ah, anonymous posts, i ruv thee.

do you listen to the record or do you use it to wipe your ass? if you listen closely all the noisy bits are constructed out of the strumming they picked up with branca and whatnot. the full on noise freakouts are awesome, i agree, but it takes a lot of wizardry to constrain them into a more standard song structure.

after listening to it, i would, but metal is bad to my ass.

i don't care if they are wizards, genious or gods, the result is not so good,thats it.
"wizardry to constrain them into a more standard song structure" is a theoretical,technical stuff, that doesnt concern or impress me as a listener of the final result.
i mean they could invest, for example, a million dollars in the production, and even som it might sound like shit , so what?

truer words etc. etc.

I actually like Shelley's style a lot. Deceptive simplicity. Not every situation calls for effing Neil Peart.

might be true, but they done it a lot before, and "rather ripped" doesnt add changes to the formula.it has just become repetetive and banal.what once sounded revolutionery, now sound basic.as always..

I always thought Thousand Leaves was totally tops, and very under-appreciated. Very arty. Kim was especially magnificent on that one. The first song has always played in my head, and sent shivers down my spine.

Agree about the REM thing. I HATE to admit that they somehow lost the plot, unlike Sonic Youth.

OK I'll shut up now. (I'm new here.)

Shelley's sense of time is very identifiable, he clearly has a "signature gallop" as Matthew says, and he has carved out his own style by blending both punk and industrial sensibilities with the cyclical approach of Liebezeit. Unfortunately he has often been shoved into the background on record, though Dirty and Thousand Leaves (among others) tell another story. Shelley also takes a beautiful approach to the noise sections, which requires musicality and a well-developed ear, not testosterone-fuelled drum chops (though he has chops, certainly).

Perhaps the most tantalizing bootleg of SY that I ever saw was just after Shelley joined the band, at a time when they were playing mostly Bad Moon Rising tracks. To hear that industrial, damaged-guitar caterwaul underpinned by Shelley's groove and rhythmic fragments was truly thrilling.

but, i really think that (and i loathe to say it) SY have seemingly toned down. not that it's a bad thing, to me at least.

there's only so long you can do the squealie dealie and not get A.bored B. annoyed with it. you gotta keep changing, which i think is what they've done to varying degree of success.

as far as different production- what Butch Vig again? Steve Albini?

80's gtr sounds- can they even do that anymore? didn't they get all their gear heisted a few years back??? including THE gtrs used on those 80's albums?

shelley's solid. no need for that sorta change.
now, kim g. on the other hand, less=more for her.

i hadn't heard that they recovered some of the gtrs! that's cool!! someone had told me they found some posted on Ebay or something to that affect...

so long as they got back the ones they played Schizophrenia+Catholic Block, i'll be pleased.

Tim, I expect you to acquire a t-shirt that says this sometime in the near future.

What is the cd duration?

Slightly over 51 minutes.

yer mam, do check out St and Nurse. Both are excellent.

Sonic Youth have matured, thank god. What do people want, Mick Effing Jagger?

They never forgot what makes for great records. They are the coolest band ever, for being so great 25 years later.

This thread is great. I'll wait till June 13. i'm old fashioned that way. In the meantime, I'm very much enjoying the reviews, and anticipating! (Same with new Flaming Lips. Seems to be love or hate. I'll pick it up tomorrow, I think.)

everyone must revolutionize everything at all times or else stop drawing breath. duh.

for my money steve shelley really came into his own around the time of those SY instrumental albums and their motorik-esque groove has benefitted ever since. and my favorite drummers of all time are the two tonys -- thompson and williams.

If I am being fingered for having initiated the discussion it was only because your comment that Shelley was a "fantastic drummer" struck me as maybe being a bit of an exaggeration. (And my only claim in that post was I'd never noticed him being particularly "fantastic.")

-- Matthew C Perpetua (perpetu...), April 18th, 2006.

are you talking about that syncopated tom-tom-tom-tom-tom-tom-hi hat thwack groove he gets into?
yeah: killer. one of the coolest rock beats ever.

Call me crazy, but this is the album they should have released after "Daydream Nation" (first album on a major label, "alt rock" breaking through on the radio, why not?)

Matos, thanks for the tip on the meters' funk, it's anything but rigid.

Shelley sometimes reminds me a bit of Anton Fier with the bu-bu-ba, bu-bu-ba thing, which might be part of why a lot of recent SY reminds me of Chatham + vocals, which never seems quite as compelling as turning Branca into pop. I'm thinking you could probably sneak Die Donnergotter past a lot of casual SY fans these days, something that couldn't have happened in '87.

!

(Surely not as spazzed out?)

Fowley wasn't *always* spazzed out...there's this hyper-aware "rock and roll voice" thing going on on some of his more straightforward stuff that's very similar to the current SY vocal style. It's probably always been there, but seems to be increasing. Or maybe it's just that the vocals are so far forward on this one.

I could picture Cecil playing along with a rock band - he'd just kind of do his thing and the band would do theirs - sort of like the duo concert (later released as a record) he did with Mary Lou Williams where she was playing boogie-woogie and stride stuff while Cecil pounded away with the cluster chords and chromatic runs.

i dunno how i feel about this record.

Yes, thats what "jams run free" sounds like!

I haven't seen a confirmation of this yet, but when I first heard about it a couple days ago I was immediately reminded of how bad Free Kitten was. Please, music gods, do not let this happen.

SORRY! I COULD NOT RESIST!

Why don't you think instead of how awesome he was in Pavement?

"1979" always reminded me of the song "Psychic Hearts" by Thurston Moore.

no."goo" was their last great album.

Reading all these Rather Ripped impressions, AND, waiting for June 13, is a wonderful experience! Thank you all.

Cecil taylor RULES, OK? :)

Darren Skuja

"As long as the squares write stuff like that you know you must be doing something right" -- Fred "Sonic" Smith onstage circa 1978

Incinerate
Sleepin' Around
Do You Believe In Rapture
Pink Steam
Shakin' Hell
Rats
Pacific Coast Highway
Stones
Turquoise Boy
Lights Out
Sunday
Brother James
--------------------------
Making The Nature Scene
Or
--------------------------
Mote

They haven't done "Sunday" since the NYC Ghosts + Flowers tour, "Shakin' Hell" hasn't been around since maybe 1985 as far as I know, and it's strange that they only did one of Kim's new tunes. "Mote" and "Brother James" are high up on my list of songs that I'd like to see them do (both are pretty common, but I've never seen them), so that's rad.

i've always felt they avoid their recent material too much live.

Wait, you mean the most recent oldies, right? Because they always play most of/all of whatever is the newest record in any given show since Evol. I figure they cut the most recent material because they play it to death every show for a year or two, and they might just need space from it before coming back to it again. In the case of NYC Ghosts, that album wasn't popular, so I think that played a role in why those songs (except for a few rare performances of "Nevermind") were not played on the Murray Street or Sonic Nurse tours. However, all of the Murray Street songs except for "Sympathy For The Strawberry" and "Radical Adults..." were played on the Sonic Nurse tour - "Empty Page" and "Rain On Tin" quite often.

i guess it's 'washing machine' and 'thousand leaves' that i miss the most. might have something to do with their gear being stolen (sadly).

Matthew, since you're the expert on this, what are my chances of actually witnessing "Teenage Riot" or "Titanium Expose" on this tour?

"Teenage Riot" is one of the most common oldies, and I figure your chances are fairly good. However, it was pretty common on the Sonic Nurse tour, and so it might be less common this time around. I figure they might switch back to "Silver Rocket" or "Candle" for a Daydream-era Thurston tune. "Eric's Trip" is extremely common, if you're into that one.

Commonly (and less commonly) played oldies in the past few years include: "Bull in the Heather," "Skip Tracer," "100%," "Sugar Kane," "Drunken Butterfly," "Kool Thing," "Mote," "Teenage Riot," "Candle," "Silver Rocket," "Eric's Trip," "Kissability," "Schizophrenia," "Catholic Block," "Pacific Coast Highway," "White Cross," "Cotton Crown," "Expressway To Yr Skull," "Tom Violence," "Shadow of a Doubt," "Brother James," "Making The Nature Scene," "Inhuman," "The Burning Spear," and "She Is Not Alone."

also, i do hope they play neutral on the tour. it's definitely my favoirte cut on the new disc. there's something "fresh" sounding, whatever that means, about it. it's really uncluttered and kim doesn't seem to be trying too hard. that sex-kitten thing is very unbecoming for someone her age and she doesn't really do that on the new one at all. and that's just one reason why they still matter. they never became parodies of their early-90s years.

has there been any indication of which song, if any, has been picked to be the single from RR?

how weird that bull in the heather was the single from ejstans? there are far more hookier songs on it.

"Jagged Brain"?

Sigh....7 more weeks then.

still, i'd say it's more radio-friendly than bull, even if it has more sonic youth elements in it. isn't the point of a single to try and lure more people to buy the record? to me, starfield and, point taken, self-obsessed are more accessible: guitars still conforming to sy's noise aesthetic but scrubbed clean a little bit. even that delay or phased guitar loop on starfield is a riff. then again, those distorted harmonics on bull are riff-y. opinions..like assholes..yadda yadda.

ir·rev·er·ent (?-r?v'?r-?nt)

adj.

1. Lacking or exhibiting a lack of reverence; disrespectful.
2. Critical of what is generally accepted or respected; satirical: irreverent humor.

I didn't know that! Thanks!

If you scan down, they put up lyrics to two forthcoming b-sides, both of which seem pretty fascinating to me.

wow, new b-sides, when's the last time they released b-sides that were non-album songs and not instrumentals or covers? the last I can remember is the Washing Machine-era "My Arena".

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12679452/

haha

Does this jibe with the sound on the rest of the new album?

-- Alex in Baltimore (shipley.a...), May 9th, 2006.

I have a version of "Starpower" w/ Thurston doing vocals. Kim on vocals obv more interesting.

Took a listen to RR; tho it sounds warmer + pleasing, more focused than any recent SY thing I've heard, I'm not too sure if it will stick to the ribs. That's all, please resume spamming of thread...

warmer + pleasing, more focused

this is my take as well, i am really into the rapture song although this:

"do you believe in rapture?" is good, but it'd be better if it ended with like kim getting rapturized and thurston being all like, "whaaaat? you promised!" and kim shouting tearful wailing "i'm sorry, i tried to save youuuuu...." as she and coco are borne aloft on pillowy wings.

is one of the funniest things I have read around here in months.

It's not a super-dynamic album.. it definitely has a consistent tempo and volume... which is perhaps the point. Granted, I came into the store halfway through the album, so I maybe I missed a raucous first half...

Consonant vs dissonant jangle and weave propelled by postpunk anti-groove; some noise. Basic tunes subservient to breath and rasp. Psychedelic, at least with Windows Media Player automatic mind-melt videos; other forms of mind-melt may work too. Obvious - from the same recipe as the last two albums, just diced into shorter chunks (seasoned with some hooks and changes even more finely aged) but who else will make it? Save for dumbass bar-band rocker "Sleepin' Around" and some singsong fatigue (tracks 9-11 -> "What would happen if they spent as much time on the vocal lines as on the guitars?": listeners worldwide), tight. "Do You Believe In Rapture?" = "Heroin" in harmonics, with drums in time. Other searches: "Rats," "Jams Run Free".

Then there's this clanger:
Another objectivity aid is consensus, as indicated by record guides, online compendia, and of course critics polls.

I mean, for at least 10 years consensus on VU and Sabbath was that they sucked donkey balls.

(awaits 200+ posts)

I'm not being flip. The taste vs judgment argument is someting I raised in my blog last night, and it's a conversation I'm having with a friend as I'm typing this.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (soto.alfre...), June 7th, 2006.

What's unclear, specifically?

Great punchline.

If somebody wants to champion that approach, that's fine (if they're strong enough as a writer they'll make it work). Just don't violate your own terms, especially when you're trying to provide an example of the approach in action. Christgau says Phillips shouldn't call SY "boring," she should talk about the songs in and of themselves without addressing her emotional response to them, then he says "let me give you an example," and uses "sandbagging" which is just a tricky way to say "boring."

That's not at all what he implies! especially when he quite vigorously defends his weakness for NYC Ghosts.

...the fact that objectivity only comes naturally in math doesn't mean it can't be approximated in art.

One technique, which I've just illustrated, is to replace response reports ("boring" and all its self-involved pals, like my "exhilarating" or Phillips's less blatant "dull") with stimulus reports.

To paraphrase, an approach to improved objectivity is through focusing on "stimulus reports" (which I take to mean descriptions of the music itself, the stimulus) as opposed to "response reports" (i.e. the reviewer's response to the stimulus). Okay, that's fine. Then:

Here's another instance: Boring or not, 1998's A Thousand Leaves unquestionably marked a turn toward the quietude, ruminative structures, and general fuzz level always implicit in their unresolved tunings and Deadhead-manquéjams—tendencies tersely deployed on 1994's Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star and fulsomely indulged on Washing Machine's sandbagging 20-minute "The Diamond Sea."

You can't say, "Hey, focus on the music (stimulus) instead of your judgmental response," then throw in a couple of your own judgmental responses.

I'm disappointed in his resorting to jargon (is "sandagging" like "teabagging"?). As for "fulsomely" – any word choice implies a judgment. I need to read it again, but if you're suggesting that he went up his own arse – intentionally or no – then I sorta agree.

Stylistically, is Christgau's a more interesting approach then just calling A Thousand Leaves exhilarating? Perhaps, but don't pretend it's the path to objectivity; it's just a writing style preference.

o. nate, those are some sandbagging pants you're wearing.

adjective

Affectedly and self-servingly earnest

Doubly ironic that the sentence was written in a "and here's how you do it!" spirit...

This sounds right.

usage: The senses shown above are the chief living senses of fulsome. Sense 2, which was a generalized term of disparagement in the late 17th century, is the least common of these. Fulsome became a point of dispute when sense 1, thought to be obsolete in the 19th century, began to be revived in the 20th. The dispute was exacerbated by the fact that the large dictionaries of the first half of the century missed the beginnings of the revival. Sense 1 has not only been revived but has spread in its application and continues to do so. The chief danger for the user of fulsome is ambiguity. Unless the context is made very clear, the reader or hearer cannot be sure whether such an expression as "fulsome praise" is meant in sense 1b or in sense 4.

I could picture Christgau viewing a 20 minute track as evidence of some pretentious wankery.

When I hear the word "sandbagging" I think of someone or something that slows down proceedings - isn't that the common business or legal use? As in weighing down, preventing the natural flow? I've never been hit with a sandbag, although I guess Daffy Duck has...

Goddamn this English language of ours...

You really think so?

Ian, I have no idea what that means.

Here's another instance: Boring or not, 1998's A Thousand Leaves unquestionably marked a turn toward the quietude, ruminative structures, and general fuzz level always implicit in their unresolved tunings and Deadhead-manquéjams—tendencies tersely deployed on 1994's Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star and copiously indulged on Washing Machine's stunning 20-minute "The Diamond Sea."

Perhaps less interesting sounding, but more clear. Is Christgau advocating the avoidance of clear word choices in favor of more vague ones in order to pursue "objectivity"? Let's forget the pejorative-or-nay for a minute - is calling "The Diammond Sea" "fulsomely sandbagging" better than just flat-out calling it "exhilarating" or "stunning"?

I suppose so, but a favorite album is also ranked according to other extra-formalist concerns: time, place, autobiographical minutiae. I don't see Rather Ripped as my no. 1 album this year, even though it's a better album than SN.

apparently SY played 'rather ripped' in order from start to finish at CBGB's last night!

Except Lee's songs get worse instead of better ("Rats" is easily the weakest song on RR). I think the last song of his I loved was 1998's "Hoarfrost."

Soto done gone loco.

There are albums that sound awesome in the record store, and then sound alright at home.. which is most of SY's albums, but this is an exception. Rather Ripped sounded a bit weak when I heard the advance in the record store, but now that I'm playing it at home, alone, at high summer dusk, it sounds incredibly intimate, warm, and gentle.

It's a cool-out album.. a couple of tracks rock a little bit more than the rest, but nothing rocks more than even the more "poppy" songs on Daydream Nation, which some consider "mellow".

But, not as much as Wild Honey, it's a zone-into album as well.. not a play-at-a-party-or-in-public album. "Do You Believe In Rapture?" is really nice. "Sleepin' Around"... "Reena"... "Or" as well. Hell, pretty much the whole album. The rest is neither incredible, nor really bad... just really nice.

It's a cruise control album. Why not? :)

I'll rephrase this: not a play-at-a-nightclub album

Incinerate
What A Waste
Pattern Recognition
Do You Believe In Rapture
Reena
Rats
Sleepin' Around
Turquoise Boy
Jams Run Free
Lights Out
PCH
Pink Steam
------
The Neutral
Shaking Hell
------
Or

i too would have liked to have heard more old songs. but the new stuff rules, so i still enjoyed myself thoroughly.

short answer = yes. could he learn a few choice cuts though? it made me really miss jim o'rourke's performances with them (aside from nyc ghosts & flowers tour.)

They need to get a second Lee song in there, though!

So, if I already own the damn thing, it's perfectly legal to download it on Limewire, right?

Actually, isn't it "legal" to download anything, anyway? It's only illegal to upload stuff / share stuff, right?

(for example) Reena from the 1:56 - 2:12 mark. This is the same fuckin' guitar noise SY has made for years. It pops up on other songs on this new album, too.

There's nothing wrong with having a style. Hell, even I have a style and I don't mean to. It's just natural given anyone's limitations, etc., but it's kind of annoying to hear that same thing. I guess a similar comparison would be the rumbling muted E of speed metal.

TROLL

But seriously! That's like saying "let's build a house with no walls." A lot of bands can make all the noise they want and I can't tell them from Adam. When SY makes that noise, I know exactly who I'm hearing.

no one cares, TROLL

No one does. Troll. Suck it. :-P

Haha, okay, I guess I'll buy that. Did you really go check out which noise I was talking about? I don't see why SY has to refer back to it so often. I have a feeling it is not really intentional; it sounds like the same sort of vague repetition all guitarists are guilty of, but that pitch and everything! I've heard it!

Yeah, actually I've heard the song so many times I already knew exactly what you were speaking of. It's a SY songwriting crutch, sure, but it always works for me (not that it's actual "noise" we're speaking of here... just a strumming/chording technique).

SY aren't exactly strangers to synths, but honestly, I think that they've stayed more consistent than a lot of indie journeymen pricesely because they haven't fallen into that trap of staying up to date as keyboards and drum machines have become de rigeur, honing in even more on the guitar interplay. and what little bleeding edge production fuckery they/O'Rourke have indulged in, particularly on NYC Ghosts, didn't really do them any favors. in this world of dilettantes and dabblers, I'm happy that even if the members of SY go off and try different instruments and setups for side projects, they keep coming back every couple years to give you a Sonic Youth album, nothing more, nothing less.

You have missed the point entirely. Kim, and Bob (Dylan) never cared or tried to "hit the notes right" and anyone who sees this as a bad thing should listen to Bryan Adams instead! :)

But fuck, where's my Scott Walker, aquarius records?

and i'm alright with that...

no, really. it's fine.

Mmmm. Lord Alfred, it is rather similar to recent works. They didn't pull a KidA. Hence my "holding pattern" thoughts. And in addition to the recent style, the songwriting and playing and lyrics are also on the same high level, or maybe better once I spin it 10x. Or something like that. Dude.

I think I'm going to have to go give Murray St. and Sonic Nurse another chance. To me, that stuff seemed boring, but I never actually gave them more than 1 impatient, disappointed listen each (if that). With A Thousand Leaves, they really lost me as a die-hard fan, and I haven't really cared again until this album.

yup. actually "a thousand leaves" is the last sy record that i've liked (despite that cheesy phaser effect they used throughout). "rather ripped" starts off pretty good but the rest seems sorta meh.

It is. Not only that, but I have impacted fecal matter which is also rotting. The only thing that seems to help is carving an X on my chest and allowing the sun's rays to penetrate my blood in the evening. Go figure.

I actually like the second half of RR better. To me, the first half is a really good warmup, and when Turquoise Boy begins, we are really rolling, Baby! Gave it spin #7 tonight, and I think it is even better than St and Nurse!

-- Q('.'Q) (ï¿...), June 17th, 2006.

if there's any word to describe sonic youth's use of guitar effects, it's anything *but* cheesy.

I also liked NYC Ghosts & Flowers, at least at the time.

I find Rather Ripped to be a lot better than Sonic Nurse.

no, he's right, the phaser on ATL and the early SYRs is totally cheesy. if they stopped using it because it was lost in the great gear theft of '99 then good riddance. Darren's definitely not the only one who loves ATL, though, that was a big album for me at the time.

wtf are you talking about?

Rather Ripped = 51 minutes
Murray Street = 46 minutes
NYC Ghosts & Flowers = 42 minutes

i was with you through "brilliant" and maybe even through "songs," but "contre le sexisme" is easily one of my most-skipped tracks ever. in my head, 'ATL' starts with "sunday" (and is one of my fave SY albums from then on).

what are the 2 bonus tracks called?

I've listened to this in its entirety twice now and I like it. Someone further up the thread mentioned how immediate it is and I agree - these songs stick in your head.

Can't wait for the December All Tomorrow's Parties now...

After sitting with this thing a week (I held out for actual release), I'm really liking it.

Yes. Catchy, memorable, and quite good. A real treat.

I'm not following the person who says without the 2 bonus songs it would be 40min etc. It is 51min without those songs, and the bonuses make it longer, right?

I Love Rather Ripped. Gets better every spin.

That said I am looking forward to seeing them in Seattle next week.

heh, I think that was Sonic Youth's intent with this album.

Yeah, it's their most sugary & addictive album to date, definitely.

Built To Spill seems like they tried a "hey, let's make a BTS album" with Ancient Melodies From The Future.. however, something really annoyed on this album...

OTOH, Rather Ripped does anything but annoy.

Nothing wrong with that, just kind of "meh" when expecting Sonic Youth.

Of course, I've been kind of apathetic to them for the past decade, so please take that into consideration. Some people liked YLT's "Summer Sun" as well. To each their own.

damn how did i miss that?

I was thinking about it and Sonic Youth are kind of the indie Rolling Stones - had a solid run that helped define an entire sound, and then are routinely lauded with "return to form" critical response, regardless of the general indifference to the album a few months down the road. They consitently get 4 star reviews, only to have those same "masterpeices" mauled in a future 4 star review (revisionist thought on "NYC Ghosts & Flowers" is a prime example). The Stones, from Steel Wheels on, have also had that same universal addulation and retro-mediocrity cycle. Both are still very solid live acts - I try to see Sonic Youth when I can, even though I haven't particularly cared for anything after "Experimental Jet Set".

SY really needs to get some better oldies in the setlist before I see them in August! I'm super glad that they are doing "Brother James" regularly since that is the #1 song on my list of SY songs I've never seen live, but jeezy creezy can they just give "Drunken Butterfly" and "Eric's Trip" a rest finally?

I can't think of any major critic besides Christgau who lauded NYC Ghosts & Flowers

"NYC Ghosts and Flowers finds the quartet exploring rock's outer limits with renewed zeal. The album expands on the autumnal pensiveness of 1998's A Thousand Leaves."

and:

"NYC Ghosts and Flowers comes as a reminder of not only how far Sonic Youth have traveled but how high they can still reach."

Matt Hanks wrote in his Amazon review:

"Sure, you could say that NYC Ghosts & Flowers is the group's best record since Daydream Nation--what's a new Sonic Youth album without such an assessment?--but to do so would deprive them of their greatest achievement. No longer fashionable or influential, Sonic Youth persist in the strength of their own passions. They matter to themselves. To hell with everyone else."

Maybe "NYC Ghosts" is the exception that proves the rule (though I seem to recall horrible panning like Pitchfork's as more the exception than the rule) - the general path of "best since Daydream" and then irrelevancy is strikingly strong.

But I'm an old-school SY apostate - I was disappointed by Goo and Dirty (I stand by an old statement that "Youth Against Fascism" is the most horrendously embarrassing thing they have done or could ever do) and just don't see the need to be completist with their work. The last 15 years or so they have put out a series of good albums that I see absolutely no need to own or listen to on more than a perfunctory level.

It seems the fate of most acts that extend beyond a decade or so - they have such a defined sound that infintesimal variations on that are what any subsequent albums devolve towards.

I'm not clear as to how this can really be a "stage" unless you mean "the stage where they make one last great album and then start to suck ass"

-- San Diva Gyna (and a Masala DOsaNUT on the side), June 22nd, 2006.

Nice reasoned response. I listened to this album, as I've listened to every SY album, with the hope that it will grab me like it did oh so many years ago. I haven't given up on the band at all - like I said, I still see them live when I can. Just because I think they are repeating themselves with minor variations doesn't mean I don't like them.

What a sad state of affairs when you can't comment without following some party line - I'll give it a try: "Rather Ripped rather rocks! NY Times & Klusterfuck and Hornsby sux. XGAU XGAU XGAU!!!!"

Can I play now?

note the WHINE tags i put in there for comic effect.

i was actually making fun of the discourse of the old-timers vs. new-timers at the expense of the new timers this time, even if i'm sorta in both camps, and i have no idea why you threw in XGAU XGAU XGAU, but whatevs.

The XGAU bit was just aimed at the tired old canards that seem to be the primary stock and trade of this message board. My own weak attempt at humor.

I'm an old-timer who wants to be rejuvanated - I SO want to be blown away by each and every SY album, and instead come away accepting that what they're doing, though very well done, has none of that ol' pizazz. My loss, most likely.

alb is ok, too

But "Super Horny 19 Year-olds" is a great album title.

and now everyone knows why i work at a university. you know, for the "benefits".

[chillax dudes, im totally joking.]

I still stand up for Heathen.

Anyway - I love NYCGF and 1000 Leaves too. Oh fuck, I love them all. But let's just focus on the 150-ish minutes of music that is Murray-Nurse-Ripped: Tell me again that this is boring, uninspired, nowhere near the brilliance of Daydream Sister Moon, etc etc etc, and I think I will puke forthwith. 150min of Great Fucking Tuneage it definitely is!

Ripped - what is your favourite track (or least yawny bit, whatever the case may be)? I fucking think Turquoise Boy ranks with fucking ANYTHING they ever did.

Oh yeah - Some Girls - that was the one.

Fuck I love this CD.