Game Theory / The Loud Family

I definitely feel like the Loud Family are one of the most overlooked underrated bands of the 90s. So unfortunate, poor Scott Miller seems like things passed him by several times over.

Apparently, Aimee Mann was so smitten with his songwriting that she intended to do an entire album of his songs in order to bring him greater recognition. Then her solo career reignited and she apparently abandoned the idea. I have a fun live recording of them doing "Inverness" together, though.

And the non-availability of the Game Theory catalogue is a crime. (Although this has been mentioned on ILM previously.)

The last three Game Theory albums and Plants and Birds and Rocks and Things were (note past tense) solid classics to me, and I saw great shows by both bands. Sadly, upon revisiting the stuff last year after a long break, I was shocked to discover that I found Miller's singing voice and hypercleverness both just grating as hell. As of now my final verdict is uncertain, but I'm still interested enough to say:

Scott Miller's return (or at least intended return) to making albums

O RLY?

The Game Theory stuff admittedly didn't date very well - it's on the wimpier end of the Paisley Underground stuff, and that's really saying something - but once he discovered the rock with the Louds, that's when his stuff really ignited for me. I'd still like to have all those old GT albums on CD, though.

YES

Hm. I paid little to no attention to the Paisley Underground at the time and the phrase now causes me to wince. The main appeal to me of those last few Game Theory albums was that they were power pop of an unusually inventive, prog-rock-ish stripe. "Wimpy" doesn't quite describe their failure to impress me anew last year -- the words that came to mind were more like "stiff" and "baroque."

A few years ago I was given a CD of rough mixes and early versions of the songs on Lolita Nation. I still haven't listened to it, sad to say. I really ought to dig it out.

2. The siren collage which leads out of "He Do The Police..."

That is way cool.

How old-fashioned am I that the first thing I thought of was paying you sickening amounts of money for this?

I agree. It's probably the most basic-sounding record they ever made - no crazy segues or particularly outlandish production tricks - but the songs are solid and well-performed. And I thought "Motion of Ariel" was a fine way to end a career, if that's how it was to have been. The only misstep was "Controlled Burn", which is historically one of Scott's least-compelling studio experiments.

Indeed! (This is one of my mantras 'round here...)

Here's an old page from the Little Hits blog, the Game Theory and Loud Family links still work (as of last month, anyway). Some interesting (although generally pessimistic) trivia and speculation regarding the prospect of Game Theory reissues.

http://www.littlehits.com/2005/10/songs-of-day-october-11-12-2005.html

On the subject of reissues, I'd love to see a CD of the ALRN album as well, which turned out to be much better than I would have expected.

If you're a member of *cough*, I just posted five of their albums in one file...

http://www.loudfamily.com/

Don't Respond, She Can Tell
Sodium Laureth Sulfate
Businessmen Are Okay
Inverness
Rosy Overdrive
720 Times Happier Than The Unjust Man
North San Bruno Dishonor Trip
Such Little Nonbelievers
The Second Grade Applauds
Deee-pression

Don't Respond, She Can Tell
Inverness
Slit My Wrists
Deee-pression
Blackness, Blackness
The Softest Tip of Her Baby Tongue
Save Your Money
Idiot Son
Even You
Backwards Century

w/ the scream from "I No Longer Fear The Headless" as a bonus.

Game Theory - Lolita Nation (rough)
hxxp://s52.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1E8FFFKULKIGT0ROWZWB5XVJT1

Game Theory - The Big Shot Chronicles (rough)
hxxp://s52.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1GEYL2UP1YRYI37E6VUMVHJ4JE

(copy & paste URLs into browser address window, replacing "xx" with "tt")

These are large WinZip files consisting of early full-band takes ("demo" tags notwithstanding) of the songs from each album, plus a few tracks that didn't make the cut(s).

I would never sell these or try to make money from them in any way, and I hope no one else does either. Respect to S. Miller.

Green Card
Friend Of The Family
Make Any Vows
Together Now, Very Minor
Slit My Wrists
It Just Wouldn't Be Christmas
Sodium Laureth Sulfate
Asleep And Awake On The Man's Freeway
Where They Go Back To School But Get Depressed
Good, There Are No Lions In The Street

Dear Tooth Fairy: I am enough of a dork that discovering alternate lyrics existed to "Here It Is Tomorrow" has already made my entire day. Thanks.

The links you so generously provided to the Game Theory demos are "blocked". Any chance of a repost? [I'll knock a few of my teeth out if it'll help!]

Still not really feeling GT/LF like I did in the 80s and early 90s, but anyone who can call his own songs "young adult hurt-feeling-athons" (or "Y.A.H.F.A."'s for short) is OK by me.

The steamrolling drum lick which explodes into the choruses of "Nice When I Want Something"!!!!!!

i certainly used to know people who were massive addicts and I myself owned the majority of game theory and loud family albums at the time when I felt like I needed to own everything, but these days the only ones I really care about are Plants.... and Interbabe, both of which I think are exemplary and catchy, to the point where, I haven't actually listened to Interbabe in years, but the songs are in my head all the time.

The brilliant use of assonance in "Sodium Laureth Sulfate"! "Wave equation, beta radiation beam" is like a damn wave with the long a's in every other syllable.

Have you guys seen Scott's weekly "Music- What Happened?" series on 125 Records' Loud Family website?

from at http://www.125records.com/loudfamily/index.html

> ...a new feature as a one-year replacement for Ask Scott: you pick a year
> from the fifty-year span of 1957 to 2006, Scott selects and describes
> recordings from that year that would constitute his time-capsule CD.
> One per week in the order requested. Request a year by writing to
> scottmiller (at) 125records.com!

They also just recently posted an mp3 of Scott's cover of Chris Stamey's "Cara Lee" as a free download.

Scott Miller is out there

“I’m utterly serious about music. I just respect the buying public’s judgment that it’s not what I should do for a living.”

ouch.

I loved Music What Happened? project where he made a playlist based on each year. The dude is clearly mega smart.

Really like Loud Family (esp the first and final releases - stuff in between was hit or miss for me) - but Game Theory is in my all time fave bin - Real Nighttime, Two Steps, Lolita, etc. - Scott Miller is a genius --

I got a super clean and cheap Lolita Nation in Memphis a couple of years ago. Pretty outstanding.

Finding a blog with all the Game Theory albums just reminds me how crappy it is that Enigma's demise scuppered the availability of so many great things. (Also regretting that I didn't see this thread when the YSI links above were still available...anyone still have the files for a repost?)

Yup. Hang on a minute.

Lolita Nation demos, part 1
http://www.sendspace.com/file/c105xf

Lolita Nation demos, part 2
http://www.sendspace.com/file/9zo9qp

Big Shot Chronicles demos
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jp9vfz

"Penny, Things Won't," live in 1983
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pboi0vY-15Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTu46oCdSHg

In case anyone needs it, Alternate Learning LP appears to still be available here: http://lix.in/-2f6e04. It's really very good.

Awesome! Thanks, ctrl-s!

Seems I'm a year too late to the party. Please tell me someone still has the Game Theory Lolita Nation demos as well as The Big Shot Chronicles... Send me a message or post a link for a re-up. I'll love you forever! p.s. Have music to trade, including Alternate Learning's ALRN 7" or lots of other bands.

Yes! I would love forever anyone who (re)posted those Lolita Nation demos!

Big Shot Chronicles demos:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/6wt4q8

Lolita Nation demos, part 1:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/x02fom

Lolita Nation demos, part 2:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/3zjkf8

Much thanks. I'm in Scott Miller heaven right now.

Many thanks again. These is too sweet!

Uhhh... This is... damn typo!

I've been informed that Scott Miller has died. I don't have other more in depth details at the moment.

I went to the Loud Family website for confirmation and found none, but apparently he or someone else uploaded the Game Theory catalogue to Dropbox just hours ago? That's eerie.

I don't think it's public knowledge or news yet.

Holy shit (if true).

http://www.loudfamily.com/index.html

Very, very sad.

Dang, what sad news.

Well, I just feel like I've had the wind knocked out of me.

Scott Miller was one of my Gods during my late teens/early 20s. The Loud-fans mailing list was my first online music-related hangout. He was extraordinarily kind to me when I introduced myself to him at a Loud Family show despite my tongue-tied kid-meeting-his-hero incoherence. Hell, my handle here is taken from one of his songs.

If I recall correctly, he had a couple of youngish children. This is sad, shocking news.

Incredible. What horrible news.

Man, very sad. I still think Lolita Nation deserves way more nods than it gets. It was the Forever Changes of the late '80s. R.I.P.

God DAMN it.

In a few minutes I'll re-upload the Lolita Nation and Big Shot Chronicles demos to share. What's the best free/fast service nowadays? Haven't done this in a while.

Never mind -- I'm putting 'em all on Sendspace. Takes about half an hour to upload 'em all.

Big Shot Chronicles demos:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/7muauw

Lolita Nation demos, part 1:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/8a3c5g

Lolita Nation demos, part 2:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/bkmlp8

Thank you, Scott. Rest in peace.

Thanks so much for posting those. Lolita Nation was huge for me when I was 15, and I don't think I've listened to it in over 20 years. This'll be a sad revisiting.

You're very welcome. I learned of Game Theory in 1983, shortly before The Big Shot Chronicles IIRC, and was lucky enough to see them a few times and the Loud Family once. Wonderful stuff. My life, especially my 20's, would've been much poorer without them.

been listening to 'tinker to evers to chance' in tribute all night. "shark pretty" is such a jam. RIP

I didn't learn of Scott til 1997 or so. While it is kind of a shock to learn that that much awesomeness had existed in the world for so long without my knowing about it, the existence of there already being THAT MUCH Scott Miller music for me to delve into more than made up for it.

Shit.

Was looking forward to whatever the GT reunion was going to turn out.

Didn't know about the reunion until tonight, though I had never really given up on the possibility of new Scott Miller music even post-"retirement" (he had already released one album--What If It Works? (2006), a collaboration with Anton Barbeau--after officially calling it quits in 2000, after all).

Very sad news. Met him at an in-store in the late '90s on one of the last LF tours -- a very friendly, humble, approachable guy. _Music: What Happened?_ (detailed above) is a must-read for music hounds; it made me think about and revisit a lot of stuff that had fallen through the cracks.

this is awful news!

RIP, Scott. What a shitty week.

otm^^

I found out about Game Theory and Loud Family mostly from glenn mcdonald's blog, and I emailed him a few times, for both the Ask Scott feature and the Music: What Happened project. Big Shot Chronicles is such a rad album, and Lolita Nation and Plants and Birds and Rocks and Things were v good too. Such a bummer...

thanks Ctrl-Z for the downloads, Scott had such a fascinating approach to music. I am looking forward to listening to them

My fave Loud Family song, because I need to hear it right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpXA6Hu6HJw

been giving Interbabe Concern a loooooooooooong overdue listen on Spotify. it's. fucking. amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XnP7C44DXA

He never ran out when the spirits were low
A nice guy as minor celebrities go

RIP Scott. This is horrible news.

I found out about Game Theory and Loud Family mostly from glenn mcdonald's blog

Likewise; one of the first CDs I ordered from the internet was Plants And Birds And Rocks And Things. Always wondered if Scott Miller would have been better served by some sort of Flying Nun-esque profile (always thought him & Bill Direen/Graeme Downes would have gotten along). Rest in peace.

RIP.
underrated genius. i'm a huge fan.

what's the cause of death?

Very sad.

"what's the cause of death?"

there was some speculation but if you want to go digging, the cause is stated on the gametheory/loud family group page on fb. I won't repost it here.

Love this photo from the Lolita Nation sessions: Mitch Easter, Michael Quercio, Scott Miller

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Mitch_michael_scott.jpg

“I’m utterly serious about music. I just respect the buying public’s judgment that it’s not what I should do for a living.”

ouch.

― hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 2 February 2010 13:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

think about this quote a lot

sad news

listening to lolita nation right now, wow what an album!

i had a game theory EP i bought from a dollar bin on vinyl years ago, had this great song "plan five from rigel nine" (i think) but i never dug deep into the band or loud family

wishing now i would have paid more attention.

Some of the stuff on Lolita Nation, I dunno how they did it, unless they used samplers. Because the drop-ins on "The Waist And The Knees" would've been insanely time-consuming otherwise.

this is sad.

The site notes it was the new Bowie record that inspired Miller to get back to work. I love the idea of this guy still so engaged with music that a new record could move him to come out of semi-retirement. It's tragic nothing came of the momentum. :(

Some of the stuff on Lolita Nation, I dunno how they did it, unless they used samplers. Because the drop-ins on "The Waist And The Knees" would've been insanely time-consuming otherwise.

― Pope Frank is the messenger of your doom (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:19 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dunno man good tape slicers can really do a lot on some old records...

:(

Would only add that Days for Days is such a wonderful, wonderful album. Seems really under-appreciated.

oops i screwed up the song title, this is it. i love this song so much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm4jvfwv8uQ

There's a light on the nineteenth floor tonight
They don't know there won't even be a fight
But they'll find out I've tired of all the things I've
Called my own
When they go to the final mats alone
Don't even waste the man-hours on us
We are finding no solution
Call all the boys in from the fighting fronts
We have lost the revolution
None of the soaring flight we dreamed
Is any closer to perfection
And all I want is one to fold my arms around
We are throwing the election
There's a light on in Joanie's room tonight
And she won't sleep till summer's going right
She thought she saw something that would lead her to believe
I'm the kind who'll accept the strokes and leave
Make me an offer, I don't waste them now
We have no more fixed intentions
Give all the faithful long-deserved rests
We've abandoned our dissentions
You could be one of someone's hundreds
Who'll be chosen for affection
And all I want is one to fold my arms around
We are throwing the election
I've got a feeling it's all rigged
I've got a feeling it ended a long time ago
Nobody tells me
I've got a feeling it's over now
I've got a feeling it's over now
I've got a feeling the votes are in and I got none
And all I want is one

anyone have a link to days for days? my copy is in my garage unripped and I can't locate it on spotify or anywhere else for that matter

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2013/apr/18/scott-miller-game-theory-loud-family-dies

major bummer. lolita nation is all i own but it's a HUGE record in every sense (songwriting/performance/production). the only good that can come out of this is that the shitbird who has been holding game theory's catalog hostage for 25 years will see the error of his ways and allow them to come out for the financial sake of scott's family.

man something has been pinging with me the whole time i've been listening to Lolita Nation and it finally hit me....man I bet those New Pornographers dudes were huge fans of this, something about how they structure melodies is really the same

This is really sad. I, too, only know Lolita Nation, but I love it to bits. Big loss.

That Guardian piece is sharp, and some of the comments equally so -- Mitch Easter and Phil McMullen among others have posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwXHSo7qAg8

Sort of tempted to post every YouTube I can find but I will restrain meself.

I got on board in the mid 90s and snapped up all the Loud Family albums while they were still easy to find. And new ones kept coming. Then new ones stopped coming, and I would scour used CD bins for the Game Theory discs, which was mostly an exercise in futility.

Whenever this thread got bumped, I'd see it and hope for news of GT reissues, or of something concrete about Miller's new project.

Ugh, this is not the bump this thread needed. RIP Scott Miller, you loaded your music with so many twists and winks, and it still took flight and just soared.

Now playing: "Sodium Laureth Sulfate"

I remember getting into Game Theory when I was on a Mitch Easter/jangle pop/power pop kick. I definitely vibed with the style Scott Miller had going on. This is pretty shitty.

"man I bet those New Pornographers dudes were huge fans of this":

from A.C. Newman's twitter:
"man I bet those New Pornographers dudes were huge fans of this"

lol i meant this:

RIP Scott Miller. Game Theory had a massive influence on me from my teens onward. Incredible voice, lyrics, melody, production. Damn.

best song Spoon never recorded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38xKdox2ztU

Still sad/angry about this. Wish I'd gone to more Loud Family gigs.

Thanks for nice words about the piece, Ned.

interesting eulogy by a harvard poetry professor

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/19/game_theory_pure_pop_for_nerd_people_the_greatest_unknown_80s_band/

“Yes is one of those bands that are really good,” Miller told one fanzine, “and one day it became effective culture to hold a gun to people’s heads and say, ‘You can’t like them, you have to like punk because it’s unpretentious.’ And the world bowed down; I bowed down, to a limited extent.”

Some interesting Miller/Game Theory stuff in this Donnette Thayer q&a from '97. (Also interesting stuff in here for Church fans.) She seems as awesome as I would hope.

http://www.shadowcabinet.net/archive/dthayer/questions/dtself.htm

What's your favourite Game Theory album & song?

Favorite Album: Lolita Nation, favorite song: all of Lolita Nation. I played Lolita Nation for Steve shortly after it came out, and he liked it very much. He complained about how he would never be able to put out a sprawling record like that, much as he would have liked to. He said that his project was being restricted by Greg Ladanyi to the guitar song format, and he had to stick with archetypal pop songs like “Under the Milky Way” on his unassuming little record “Starfish”. Poor Steve. (To be fair, Steve also credited Greg Ladanyi at that time with having an amazing amount of music savvy, and had a sense that the work they were doing on Starfish would take him for quite a ride.)

Who or what is your greatest inspiration with regards to songwriting?

Scott Miller taught me how to write music that holds up in court (so to speak). Because of his direction, I don’t write lyrics that I can’t publish on their own, hoping that the music will carry them. Steve taught me how to groove; his objection to Game Theory was that the minute we caught a groove, we would be off on something else (and indeed most Game Theory songs had about sixty zillion chords, forty bridges and two hundred different verses). Grooving is hard for me. I like billions of chords, it makes me feel safe and accomplished, and in a way that creates a kind of a groove/nongroove Zen thing. But my main influences have always been my muses. I’ve given it some thought and have developed a list of methods of approaching your muse:

Thanks for nice words about the piece, Ned.

It was well worth the praise. Also why do I keep forgetting that's you!

That Salon piece is really interesting, and full of good insight and analysis. But I also wish it had been written by a really good journalist instead of a Harvard poetry professor, because it would have been half as long and a quarter as verbose.

So the journalist's word-to-verbosity ratio would have been higher? In its defense (and, with some disclosure, Steve's a friend, and former fellow college dj—our joint first move on getting access to our station's collection was to run for the Alternate Learning LP, which we'd never been able to hear before, this being 1992), the piece was written to another purpose. Doesn't quite work as a "eulogy"—and was never intended to—since it's almost as much about Steve as about Game Theory, and originally appeared in an academic journal. Not therefore surprising that it feels mis-focused for a piece seemingly in reaction to Scott Miller's death. Probably should have been adapted to its new purpose, then given a new ending. But Salon likely just leapt for the best thing out there.

someone's touchy, but still, that was a pretty interesting non-eulogy. the awkwardness of it sort of performs game theory/loud family's nervy/brainy appeal

xpost No, it was a good piece. I enjoyed it. And I knew it was written predeath. But I'm a journalist. I'm used to things being tighter and sharper. A good journalist might have done that, and it's a reasonable thing to say about its publication in Salon. But a good journalist wouldn't be able to teach poetry. I'm not calling your friend's worth into question.

Also, by ilx standards that's barely even criticism of a piece of writing!

Touchy? For pointing out the piece was written to ends other than journalism, and for suggesting that Salon might have handled that problem better? It probably wouldn't have made for a great Salon piece before Scott Miller's death, and it certainly feels a little odd just after, though yes, the awkwardness is performative.

If anything, I was agreeing that the piece was a little unwieldy and not a great fit for its current use.

Where did I ever suggest anyone was calling Steve's worth into question?

OK. No problem.

not touchy at all!

Well wow, Game Theory reissues finally on the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkjnAQtQWcU

Very cool. Everything but the trash bag.... Would love to have seen Alternate Learning stand on its own, though, not as bonus downloads (and you can't quite tell if all the ALRN material will be included).

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad it happens only after Miller's death

This is great news. I've still never heard 'Plants & Birds & Rocks & Things' or any Game Theory albums.

nostormo otm. Still p stoked.

Plants & Birds is my favorite, even more than Lolita Nation.

Actually I think mine is Interbabe Concern followed by Big Shot Chronicles, though there's a lot I haven't heard

So excited for this! I've been reading the fawning praise for both bands for ages, it'll be nice to actually buy an album of theirs for once!

I used to have this Scott song that I loved and the title referenced a high school, I think, or has the word "High" in it (the title), and I have not been able to track it down despite several attempts over the years. Ring a bell to anyone? I think it was just Scott solo acoustic, not sure it if had GT or LF provenance, but I think it's pretty early Scott.

Do you mean "Where they Go Back to School but Still Get Depressed?" It's mostly Scott, a guitar and some ominous background noise. Not early, though; it's from Loud Family's Interbabe Concern.

Wonder what led them to present the Alternate Learning material this way—it really could have stood on its own.... Though after so many years of its seeming impossible to have any reissues at all, maybe it's churlish to quibble?

1. SOMETHING TO SHOW
2. TIN SCARECROW
3. WHITE BLUES
4. DATE WITH AN ANGEL
5. MARY MAGDALENE
6. THE YOUNG DRUG
7. BAD YEAR AT UCLA
8. ALL I WANT IS EVERYTHING
9. STUPID HEART
10. SLEEPING THROUGH HEAVEN
11. IT GIVES ME CHILLS
12. THE GIRLS ARE READY TO GO

Bonus Tracks:
13. ANOTHER WASTED AFTERNOON – Alternate Learning
14. WHAT’S THE MATTER – Alternate Learning
15. SCOTT MILLER TESTING LABORATORIES: RECORD TEST #1 – Scott Miller and Jozef Becker
16. IN THE STILL OF THE NIGHT – Scott Miller
17. BAD YEAR AT UCLA (Reprise)
18. SHE’S A WOMAN OF THE WORLD – Scott Miller
19. SCOTT MILLER TESTING LABORATORIES: RECORD TEST #2 – Scott Miller and Jozef Becker
20. BEACH STATE ROCKING – Alternate Learning
21. ALIENS IN OUR MIDST
22. UNTITLED PIANO PIECE – Scott Miller
23. THE NEW YOU – Alternate Learning
24. SCOTT MILLER TESTING LABORATORIES: RECORD TEST #3 – Scott Miller and Jozef Becker
25. BAD YEAR AT UCLA (Live)
26. SCOTT MILLER TESTING LABORATORIES: RECORD TEST #4 – Scott Miller and Jozef Becker
27. MARY MAGDALENE (Live)

So furious with myself that when I did a big CD cull a couple of years ago I got rid of ALL the Game Theory albums.

http://www.avclub.com/article/game-theorys-80s-college-rock-masterpiece-finally--233837

There's a Kickstarter going to help complete/fund the new Game Theory record that Scott was working on at the time of his death. I'll be giving what I can.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bjwest/supercalifragile-by-scott-millers-game-theory

Just got this notice:

Thanks to an extremely generous backer, we are now at 110% funding! There's no longer any question of this album being made. We still have more than a month before the clock runs out though, so there's still plenty of time for people to get in on pre-roders! Keep spreading the word!

To thank everyone for their amazing support, here's a sneak peak of the album, a video shot during the recording session at Abbey Road. Please enjoy "I Still Dream of Getting Back to Paris."
https://vimeo.com/166671786

Do keep in mind that this is a preliminary mix, the version on the album will be different after Mitch Easter works his magic on it!

not really a fan of anton barbeau but otherwise that's pretty great

I was at Austin Psych Fest 2013 and Rain Parade was the last band playing that night. Afterward I got talking with their drummer, super nice guy named Gil. "Hey, what other bands have you played in?" "Game Theory"

*uncomfortable sound effects*

Scott Miller had just taken his own life just the week before and Gil said that playing with RP was just barely keeping his mind off things. We ended up talking for a bit - death, getting older, surviving, etc. Late night bar existentialism. Never said a thing about cancer. RIP

Wait, Gil Ray died? :O

Posted on http://www.loudfamily.com

Duet with Aimee Mann from upcoming posthumous album:

http://read.tidal.com/article/listen-to-game-theorys-first-song-in-20-years-featuring-aimee-man

And yeah, I choked up a bit hearing Scott's voice for the first time on a new track since his passing.

anyone heard the record? it's pretty wonderful so far

https://gametheory1.bandcamp.com/releases

heart breaking. also yes, Gil died a few months ago.

Complete show! (thirty years ago yesterday)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gjRk8ZRmXQ

Was it a double bill with Blake Babies?

Seems like he posted a bunch of videos with that same date on them.

Noticing some similarity in the singing to Alex Chilton right now

D'oh!
/JackieHarvey

listening to Lolita Nation I'm struck with the thought that these guys were far too smart for their own good

they also sound at least 5 years ahead of their time

i approve

Check out the first Loud Family album, Plants and Birds and Rocks and Things. It's even better.

will do at some point, need to get my head around this first!

'chardonnay' is a joy. there's an 8-minute version that didn't make the album? pity

The longer “Chardonnay” is on the LN reissue that came out a few years back.

I nom’d a couple of LN tracks (along with one from the first Loud Family album) in the sub-2 min songs poll, so if you’re inclined to vote...

yeah your nominations are how i found out about them!

i'll def vote for at least one of them

Yay!

Plants and Birds is my favorite of all of these albums. Just top notch.

Interbabe Concern is my favorite, you might get some mileage out of that too, imago

Seconding the Interbabe Concern recommendation, that’s my favorite too

yeah that one is also very good

this guy is some sort of holy grail huh

Plants And Birds is also amazing!

Why did none of you TELL me about Scott Miller?? Wow

i dunno this thread has been here for a long time. but he was certainly not as lauded as he should have been while alive.

I No Longer Fear The Headless is the most glorious thing in the world

time for some game theory

cover of "roadrunner" on the lolita nation reissue is a lot of fun, there's definitely a lot of what made the modern lovers a great band in game theory

lol shush

Game Theory took a while to grow on me but I like them a lot - I've never quite got into Loud Family but I think that might be changing, Plants and Birds... finally clicked with me after another listen last night.

I really enjoyed reading Miller's Music: What Happened? even though I disagreed with a lot of his positions on things.

Days for Days is classic. Does anyone know why it's not streaming? I thought Alias was the hold up, but the rest of the catalog is on Spotify.

I've got to find that one

Interbabe Concern is...astonishing, at this point rapidly climbing various all-time lists of mine. just stuck in my head constantly now

I bought DFD on iTunes haha

In about a week, LF has become one of my favourite bands. It's ALL amazing

Yeah, I picked up the LF discography one at a time, but it was all in the span of a month or two, mostly via Amazon. This was around 2001, and when DFD was next on my list to buy, I just happened to find it used for like $2 at a Wherehouse Music in a mall in suburban Florida, which I still have a hard time believing.

I got all the LF stuff before I even checked out Game Theory. I love it all now, but still generally prefer the LF albums. And Interbabe is one of my favorite albums by anyone.

Lolita Nation was the first I heard (all of eight or nine days ago haha) and was obviously great, but LF is a step up and away into something much more rarefied (and weirdly uncommercial considering how every track bangs)

Finding out about Scott Miller has been like stumbling across a not so ancient tablet that contains instructions for as many awesome hooks as the rest of the pop/rock canon previously contained

Interbabe Concern is definitely the best one imo too, and therefore one of the best albums I've...ever heard? but the other albums are amazing, I've not been able to get Attractive Nuisance or Days For Days out of my head today. And it's all so clever and surprising - he'll do something like have Soul DC have an unassuming and maybe slightly overlong intro, only to slam into an unbelievable pop anthem without breaking stride. It's heavenly

I've never ventured beyond 'Lolita Nation' - which is brilliant - but you're making a pretty strong case that I should dive into Loud Family.

proceed, and keep us posted :)

Will do!

interbabe was my first and remains my favourite (inspired to check it out back in oh 1997 by Glenn Mcdonald’s review on TWAS), subject to never having been able to find plants and birds.

I think one of the things i love about scott’s work is that it doesn’t sound nearly as “smart” as you’d expect from reading about it.

By way of example, those long twisting rhyming couplets on “Screwed Over By Stylish Introverts” don’t ever sound laboured, it’s more like he just happens to think in metered rhyme.

Attractive Nuisance is almost as great as Interbabe. The run of tracks from...3 to 10? is peerless, amazing. Plus Blackness, Blackness sounds like he heard Smashing Pumpkins and decided he'd show these bozos how to do their own music, in the nicest possible way

Days For Days has some legit jams. Great production too.

Lolita Nation seems to be the critical favourite but Dead Center is my favourite Game Theory album

I hadn't gotten around to the 2 Steps from the Middle Ages reissue until today and the live tracks on it slay - killer "The Waist and the Knees" that's maximal VU freakout.

(inspired to check it out back in oh 1997 by Glenn Mcdonald’s review on TWAS)

Lol this is exactly how I found out about GT/LF

(today would've been Scott's birthday btw)

:(

the best band (Loud Family)

just constantly in my head

The "new" Game Theory album, Across the Barrier of Sound: Postscript is basically the demos for what would become the first Loud Family album, plus some covers (Beatles, Eno, Monkees, Big Star) and a few collaborations with Michael Querico of The Three O'Clock. I doubt I'll ever listen to it more than twice, but hearing how Plants and Birds and Rocks and Things might've turned out as a Game Theory record is tantalizing, and "Inverness" remains one of the most beautiful songs ever written in any form.

Pretty sure I prefer the LF musicians as well as the music but I may give this a listen. If the LF albums were put on Bandcamp I'd certainly buy most or all of them

interesting, though I can't abide Querico.

jajaja ¡que rico!

It's 'Quercio'

Reissue of the last Loud Family album

http://omnivorerecordings.com/shop/what-if-it-works/

The Scott Miller original songs on this are great, and the Anton Barbeau songs are fine. It's a shame it's padded out with covers, which Scott was never able to record convincingly. I sometimes think "Song About 'Rocks Off'" is his best song ever...but he precedes it on the album by covering "Rocks Off", when the whole point of the answer song is his distance from the Rolling Stones!

I see what you're saying about the placement of the "Rocks Off" cover. In this context it's kind of like a flashback with Scott donning unconvincing makeup to play his younger self. I think the Anton songs get progressively better as the album goes on and I actually really like "I've Been Craving Lately," but yeah, "Song About 'Rocks Off'" is the big highlight and the other Scott songs stand above everything else here.

I only got around to listening to Across the Barrier of Sound: Postscript a few weeks ago, but it's a very listenable compilation of his work between the era of the two bands. I could see someone becoming a fan and exploring further if it was the first thing of his that they heard, which wasn't the case with the scraps they had to use as bonus tracks on the previous Game Theory reissues.

Yeah, What if it Works is a bit of a grab bag, but the highs--"Song About Rocks Off," "Mavis of Maybelline Towers," "I've Been Craving Lately"--are very high.

The What if It Works reissue is out now (at least on Apple Music) and listening to it again for the first time in a while, I actually think its stronger than my previous post suggested, especially if you program out the covers (or even just "Rocks Off"). I haven't gotten to the bonus material yet, but I'm happy just to be discovering that I like this album more than I thought I did.

Listening to samples of the bonus tracks, it has hints that make me wish there was a little more wildness or experimentation on the record proper.
I think Scott regarded recording covers as a low-stress activity, but it would have been nice if he could have brought some of that casualness into his songwriting. By 2006, I think he was not only out of practice, there was a paralysis brought on by self-questioning about what was worth saying. You would hope that a collaborator and an album contract would have inspired him to produce with a little less self-consciousness, it could have freed him up.

can you blame him for giving up, he wrote three close to perfect albums in a row and nobody gave a shit

Sure, but then why do the What If It Works project at all? Why not just co-write a few songs with Anton Barbeau and let him record them?
The two "bonus" tracks at the end of the original CD only came about because the owners of 125 Records pressed them to come up with a couple more originals to make the record seem less flimsy. I'm sure they worked as hard on the album as they were able, but it might have been good for Scott to crank out two or three more songs in a week or so without worrying about e.g. whether the metaphor in the middle of the third verse was significant enough, and then record them with a similar lack of fuss.

Scott was famously (or as "famously" as he could be) meticulous, and did talk, during his life, about how slow the songwriting process was for him. There's an "Ask Scott" column on this that I would dig up for an exact quote right now if I weren't swamped with work right now.

Plenty of his songs were nominated for that <2 minutes poll, but surprisingly Rayon Drive wasn't - what a discovery, what a song! The single thing on Real Nighttime that most clearly points to what brilliance was to come imo

"Rayon Drive" is great, probably their most convincing rocker to that point. I actually find Real Nighttime less convincing as an album than Blaze of Glory, though it's a step-up in professionalism for sure (finally recording in a studio instead of Scott's bedroom!). Someone online called "Waltz the Halls Always" their best song, while for me it's quite possibly his worst original, a trebly mess.

their best song? christ that is a terrifyingly ignorant call, he was just getting started, just beginning to explore his powers

Holy shit, Wish I Could Stand Or Have. He's done it again! The undisputed master of the sub-2-minute song!

2 Steps From The Middle Ages is both a sign of songwriting greatness maturing and improving, but also a sign of a particular band that had run its course. Easy to say these things in hindsight, but you can absolutely hear what Miller was about to unleash, and why he had to shake up the people who were going to help him

There was an 89/90 Game Theory lineup with Michael Quercio, with Joe Becker as the common denominator with the first Loud Family.
According to the biography, the Lolita Nation/Two Steps lineup was wilder and fiercer onstage than you might think from the records.

Oh, the bonus tracks include some live stuff! A rollicking Baker Street on RN and a fearsome Waist + Knees on 2 Steps! So I can well believe it. But studio recordings were what he most believed in, I'd say

Is it a common sentiment among fans that Game Theory were great and Loud Family greater btw? Or is that just my own particular splitting of small differences?

The Loud Family records were recorded more professionally, with musicians of greater technical skill, but I don't really feel that Miller himself made any particular leap as a songwriter or record-maker between 1988 and 1993. I suspect, though that Game Theory accumulated more fans than Loud Family did - Lolita Nation made the top ten of the college charts, was the only Miller album reviewed in Spin (which is where I heard of them), etc. So there may be a sentimental attachment among many fans to the earlier band. I feel like his music "fit better" in the 80s context, for what that's worth, there wasn't quite the same generic niche for him to inhabit in the 90s.

Well, Lolita Nation is an event album - it sounds years ahead of its time, it's big and bold and mad - probably my overall 3rd-favourite of his and easy to see why it got more cred than anything else he did. 90s stuff pearls before critical swine

I think one mistake he might have made post-87 was to back away from making "boldly conceptual" records. I think he took particular umbrage at suggestions that his music was over-intellectualized, so he took pains to make the theoretical element of his work subtle, under the surface of a "rock record". Once someone suggested on their website that he should make a 69 Love Songs and his response was something like "great, another reason for people not to buy the records". But I think that a project like that could have helped him explore his ideas and given him a hook with potential listeners.

well i mean...he backed away from it for a while, but clearly eventually decided fuck it, they don't want straight rock records, have THIS

and out popped Interbabe Concern and Days For Days, which, fine, aren't quite 69 songs long, but which are utterly uncompromising, panoramic, totalised visions of his musical capabilities

and then he gave pure rock one last perfect bash and they didn't want that either. christ what bastards

little in music makes me more genuinely furious than the shunning of Scott Miller

I think a project like 69 Love Songs benefited from coming along at a time when the internet was well and truly established as a medium for communicating about popular music. It’s an album which makes more sense to read about than to hear random songs from out of context.

If Scott was still (perhaps correctly?) angling for college radio play during the nineties then from a certain angle it makes sense that even relatively fractured albums like Plants & Birds and Interbabe Concern try to have a bob each way.

So a song like “Such Little Nonbelievers” sounds like an appealing rock song designed for radio I guess, but then has lyrics like “ We're fighting smiling Irish / They say that we look good in uniform, and mais oui! / So good you couldn't pry the cold dead fingers / Of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders free”.

But in the end it also makes sense that that very gambit saw the music kind of fall between two stools both commercially and critically.

which is a shame, because such a synthesis makes for incredible compelling art - as I often think about Miller, he thought in terms of a classical pop canon and his tastes were very orthodox in a lot of ways, but within that he was a remarkably experimental songwriter, a tension which brings his work to the level of alternative-pop brilliance

Is it a common sentiment among fans that Game Theory were great and Loud Family greater btw? Or is that just my own particular splitting of small differences?

With an album called "Didactic Debt Collectors", guess I shouldn't be surprised this reminds me of the Loud Family:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCueXPlpBJk

Full album here: https://finalhouse.bandcamp.com/album/didactic-debt-collectors