ridiculous: REPUBLIC, MOVEMENT

i know we've done new order before, but without dredging up the old thread, i'd just like to say that i've changed my mind and consider them to be better than joy division. (this opinion to change, without notice, and then again, in perpetutity, throughout the universe.)

FUCKING COMPLETELY UTTERLY TOTALLY GODLIKE.

Apologies if I did not make this clear enough. There are threads about 'em around here somewhere.

Answer: please do try.

New Order Substance album R rubbish, and

New Order: Search and Destroy

Yes, but maybe I should have written naively ridiculous, as opposed to "naive to a ridiculous degree".

Ned is correct. Even their lowest moments have greatness (note "Regret" from _Republic_ - one of the best opening numbers EVAH. Of course the lyrics are largely hogwash, which has been a subject of discussion among my friends for a long time: we figure Barney knows he used to work with one of the great rock lyricists of all time and reasons that there's no point in even trying if you haven't actually got the genuine goods. Occasional exceptions to the rule only point up just how weak most of N.O.'s lyrics are.

Which does not detract even a whit from their total, total, total, total greatness. Everything's worth getting, and if you can get somebody to burn you all the good stuff from the Electronic records, that's worth it two -- "For You" from _Raise the Pressure_: Johnny Marr's single best post-Smiths moment.

/rant

Oh, likely enough. But even The Great AntiLyricist that is me has all the time in the world for:

"Just wait till tomorrow...I guess that's what they all say...Just before they fall apart."

i often love the intentional triteness of barney's lyrics, i think there's a strong sense of irony there ... he knows what he's saying is naive but here's a man who has obviously been through enough to know what's what. that naivete for me actually gives his lyrics a hard edge ... it's unusual. i think part of it may be also a conscious choice to force himself to not continually tread the path of his lyrical predecessor.

This Movement apologist is aboot to obtain a region-free DVD player. Is the New Order Live DVD worth it?

Tks in adv.

I agree that _Substance_ is really the starting point of choice (even now I'm getting the shivers thinking of "Everything's Gone Green" and that miraculous opening that veers off in a completely different direction six bars into the song).

I also wonder why there wasn't ever a "Substance II": let's see, "Touched by the Hand of God," "Fine Time," "Round & Round," "Run 2," "World in Motion," "Regret," "Ruined In A Day," "World," "Spooky," throw in "Crystal" and the single version of "1963" and maybe even "Blue Monday '88" and you'd have something way better than that dodgy best-of. Of course, 20 years from now when Rhino puts it together they'll probably add "Getting Away With It" and "Tasty Fish" and I won't mind a bit.

But on the whole you are right, not as influential as people write/say. esp as the hi-nrg stuff that BM rips off was already out there, just less popular.

Most prescient of Robert, then, since that came out two, three years previously to "Blue Monday." Further proof of the Cure's genius!

Also: let it be noted that The Cure (who I nonetheless love) were anything but forerunners to NO. In fact The Cure's doom throughout the eighties was to always be about two years behind the Joy Division/New Order axis.

Tim, could you expand on this...

YES THEY DO. Give in, Dan, give in. 1985 was the switchoff year. "Sunrise" -- Cure tribute. "Inbetween Days" -- New Order tribute. HA!

No it's not, because the vocal melody and the chorus are completely different.

It's actually nice that I've managed to keep it fresh for all these years -- but where will it end? There must be a shelf life to this technique if I'm to continue listening to them, even occasionally. And are they truly one of my favorites if I never listen to them? Does New Order get old/the magic wear off, etc?

My boyfriend: "Is this the gays?"
Me: "What? It's New Order."
My boyfriend: "Gay."

xpost - he listens to Dee-Lite.

Said comps are a bit eh -- the box set plus a couple of CDRs from an ILMer are far more cool.

I need the boxed set! I touch it every time I go to the record store. Have the JD one, though.

NO was my all time favorite band 2 years ago.. I still think that they still are on paper, but I think I played them out during my pre and post 'get ready' mania. havent been listening to them much as of late.

I'm not saying New Order aren't highly worthy or anything. Just wondering.

I've often wondered if your strategy can be practically applied, but such restraint I find to be semi-inhuman. Much credit to you if you can do it, though.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), February 7th, 2002.

Wow. i can't believe I broadly lambasted Movement as ridiculous. Apologies for that.

the mother of all 'portables' go!
------------------------------
note: all discs are mostly chronological by themselves as best I can tell, except the last which is chronological by artist (mostly).

Joy Division 'portable' (78:11)
Digital
Disorder
Insight
New Dawn Fades
She's Lost Control
Shadowplay
Wilderness
Interzone
Transmission
Something Must Break
Dead Souls
Love Will Tear Us Apart (single a-side vers.)
Isolation
A Means to an End
Heart and Soul
Twenty Four Hours
Decades
Love Will Tear Us Apart (Peel Session vers.)
Ceremony (from Still)

(pretty straightforward and tidy, I wanted Ceremony on the end to point the way to the future).

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc1 80:56

Ceremony (re-recorded vers from FAC 33T/Substance)
Temptation (5/87 from Substance)
Blue Monday (12" vers. from Substance)
Confusion (5/87 from Substance)
Thieves Like Us
Sub-culture (Robie remix from Substance)
Perfect Kiss (extended vers. from Substance)
True Faith
1963 (94 edit from Best Of)
Fine Time
Round & Round
Run
Regret

(the first disc in my 'three histories' of New Order. It's my dream Substance disc1, with the singles from Technique and "Regret" tacked on - oh! and 1963 which is not the remix, but just a slightly shorter edit of the original. Oh and I LOVE the "Sub-culture" remix).

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc2 80:38

Everything's Gone Green
Dreams Never End
Age of Consent
Love Vigilantes
ShellShock (12" vers.)
Paradise
Weirdo
Broken Promise
State of the Nation (12" vers.)
Blue Monday 1988
All the Way
Love Less
Guilty Partner
Vanishing Point
Dream Attack
World in Motion (single mix)
World (The Price of Love)
Ruined in a Day

(covers additional singles and favorite album tracks and most of the additional tracks from 'Technique')

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc3 80:51

586
Your Silent Face
Sub-culture (album vers.)
Sunrise
Elegia (album vers.)
As It Is When It Was
All Day Long
Mr. Disco
Spooky
Everyone Everywhere
Young Offender
Avalanche
Crystal (radio edit)
60 Miles an Hour
Close Range
Run Wild
Here to Stay (radio edit)

(essential odds-n-ends and my faves from 'Get Ready')

side order 'portable' New Order side projects 78:04

Electronic - Getting Away With It (extended vers.)
Electronic - Get the Message (album vers.)
Electronic - Idiot Country
Electronic - Reality
Electronic - Tighten Up
Electronic - Feel Every Beat
Electronic - Disappointed (single mix)
Electronic - Forbidden City
Electronic - For You
Electronic - One Day
Electronic - Second Nature
The Other Two - Tasty Fish (album vers.)
The Other Two - Selfish (The Single Mix)
The Other Two - Selfish (That Pop Mix)
Monaco - What Do You Want from Me?
Monaco - Happy Jack

(surprisingly strong, I find I listen to this quite a bit. This disc generously pretends that Revenge never happened! also 'Twisted Tenderness' is absent and the last Other Two album which I haven't even heard. The second Monaco album is ignored because I don't remember anything from it).
-----------------------------

I love these CDs probably more than any non-person thing.

I like JD and NO equally -- I can't really compare them; they fill completely different roles in my life.

portable Joy Division 1:19:27:

Warsaw
No Love Lost
The Kill
All of This For You
Digital
Sound of Music
Excersise One
Dead Souls
Disorder
Day of the Lords
Insight
Interzone
She's Lost Control
Transmission
Atrocity Exhibition
Isolation
Twenty Four Hours
Decades
These Days
Atmosphere
Love Will Tear Us Apart

portable New Order 1:18:45:

Ceremony (substance version)
Dreams Never End
Procession
Everything's Gone Green
Temptation (substance version, not 81-2ep)
Age of Consent
The Village
Blue Monday
Confusion
Love Vigilantes
Perfect Kiss (12" mix) while choosing some versions to keep short, I had to go all out here
Bizarre Love Triangle (Brotherhood version)
Subculture
Fine Time
True Faith

Spencer, as far as side projects, what about all the stuff on the Cool As Ice comps? I think that contains some of Bernards most amazing productions, clearly he was more then just a twiddling knobs on those tracks, but programming the sounds, the drums etc.

And while here, anyone have info on the Red Turns To 12"? New Order with the singer from OMD apparently?

Wow. You actually retracted that. Whew! (literally wiping brow)

Funny you should mention that one! I was moving some piles of records around the other day in my room and came across that and thought 'hey wow I didn't realize I had that one with me!' and thought I'd play it but didn't. Maybe I will tomorrow. I need to get some sleep now.

I should have joined this thread at work today. Damn.

My first portable disc listing upthread is f*cked up!

Here is the correct tracklisting:

Ceremony (re-recorded vers from FAC 33T/Substance)
Temptation (5/87 from Substance)
Blue Monday (12" vers. from Substance)
Confusion (5/87 from Substance)
Thieves Like Us
Sub-culture (Robie remix from Substance)
Perfect Kiss (extended vers. from Substance)
Bizarre Love Triangle (12" mix)
True Faith
1963 (94 edit from Best Of)
Touched by the Hand of God
Fine Time
Round & Round
Run
Regret

(same running time 80:56, still chronological)

I have to disagree with this since New Order almost never sounds cheesy to me in a these-are-old-electronics kind of way. The sounds have come out surprisingly timeless. As much as I love Joy Division (top 10 band for me), I would say that Ian Curtis heavy vocal style is perhaps the most dated sounding thing on my compilations (except for maybe "586" which sounds like a tv show theme from 1986)

... in 1988, I picked up an issue of Musician that I still have around for some reason -- I think I got it for the Pink Floyd article on the cover. Figures. Anyway, besides that, there was an informative enough article (for young me, at least) about Joy Division and New Order. New Order had released their Substance compilation the previous year, godlike assemblage that it was, and Joy Division's own Substance collection was about to come out. New Order had on the strength of merely two singles, "Bizarre Love Triangle" and "True Faith," had become one of my favorite bands, and I had taken the plunge into getting their CDs as quickly as possible in the last months of my high school existence. None of them had lyrics printed in their sleeves, as it happens, and I found out why in the article. Near the end, Bernard Sumner said something that turned out to be rather important:

"If you want to print your lyrics, that must mean you feel you have a message that's very important....To us, that sets the lyrics apart from the music and makes them more important than they really are. I try to develop an atmosphere with lines that are conducive to the feeling or emotion of the song."

I think I was initially disappointed in this stance, especially since I really wanted to know more of what was being said in the songs. But it turned out to be the turning point, and while I can't say when for sure, some little while after I stopped explicitly caring about printed lyrics, reading along with them or any such thing. I returned to square one, in ways. I just listened, and it was not only remarkably freeing, it made sense. One doesn't have a lyric sheet when suddenly hearing a song for the first time on the radio or on TV or on computer or via a passing car or whatever.

but yeah i generally thin that the "feel" of the singing in the context of the song makes it quite easy not to worry about any infelicities in the lyrics.

However, the lyrics to songs like "Bizarre Love Triangle," "Temptation," "Thieves Like Us," and the other early classics when he was just starting to find his own voice identity mean far more to me than anything Ian ever wrote. Ian was obviously fascinated with death, but I think Barney was even more fascinated with life--love, passion, music, confusion, and all the rest--and I find that just as powerful.

Well said, Doc.

he got looooooooove technique

amen

So, yeah, sublime and ridiculous, of course.

I recall Bernard saying he was having trouble with the lyrics for the new album, so, I have no reason to believe anything will change in that respect. Don't like it? Too bad. That's New Order.

Anyone else going to see them in Hyde Park? Anyone else already seen them this year/seeing them somewhere else?

Anyone else already seen them this year/seeing them somewhere else?

Saw them for the first time last weekend at the Fuji Rock Festival. It was worth every minute of the 15 year wait. They did Krafty in Japanese on MTV Japan and then repeated the feat in front of 20 000 people later that evening. The set-list was very well balanced and also included 4 Joy Division songs. I don't know what else can be said about these guys, but I love the hell out of them.

!

22 JUN 82 Rollingstone - Milan, Italy 60

Truth, Dreams Never End, Chosen Time, ICB, Leave Me Alone, Denial,
Procession, 586, Temptation, Everything's Gone Green, When I'm With You

Some absolutely brutal performances of Movement-era stuff -- and it's all topped off with a performance of Sparks' "When I'm With You!" What a band.

this comparison doesn't really hold water, unless you're seriously wanting to equate formal objections (NO) with objections to content (misogyny)

there.

I dunno, I just object strenuously to the notion that bitching about misogyny in any lyrics, hip-hop or otherwise, is somehow misguided - whereas the case against bitching about New Order lyrics is rather clearer: they obviously don't mean anything, you can just ignore them, even if you don't ignore them they're not likely to do much, textually

I do understand that this is a pointless argument, don't get me wrong, I just hate it when people wanna equate saying nothing in particular with saying (say) that it's cool to treat women like shit

x-post Alfred you'll go a long ways to find a more devoted formalist than me, but to conflate/equate form & content doesn't relieve content of its various burdens

Fine. I retract my analogy. I was playing devil's advocate, in part because it's so tiresome to read bitching about NO's lyrics in 2006.

Anyone still have the Japanese version of Krafty?

They always sound a little unfamiliar, like I'm listening to them for the first time. I think I've put off listening to them in the past because I want to preserve the newness of the songs and the feeling they give me (when I hear them, my stomach knots up -- I don't want that to go away).

these two sentences are kind of perfect. i am going to use them as my excuse for never remembering what any individual new order song is called.

ridiculous: REPUBLIC, MOVEMENT

Cripes, did I really suggest that Movement is ridiculous? I should be flogged for that.

Milan show Ned mentions ^^^ is crazy. Some aggressive presentations of Movement songs - Lots of echoes, kinda dubby in parts. One of my favorite live bootlegs ever.

Haha, Alex, this is the second time you've apologized for that on this thread!

Movement is great, Republic is even better.

No, I'm serious.

One forgets these things as one ages, alas.

A google image search for "new order" "gay sperm" is pretty OTM.

Two Lone Swordsmen named one of their tracks after that famous bass cabinet phrase.

what the hell: New Order gigs this Fall, w/o Peter Hook?!?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20110905_neworder.shtml

well, for a good cause, so that's nice, and nice the gillian is back too.

playing right here in Brussels - so might be my chance to finally see these guys live.

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2011/10/10/new-order-peter-saville-posters-paris-brussels/

The reunited New Order — Bernard Sumner, Stephen Morris and Gillian Gilbert — also released a video statement promoting the sale of the posters, which you can watch below. They do not, however, respond to their surly former bandmate Peter Hook’s recent accusations that they’re actually reuniting for profit and have a future U.S. tour in the works.

...because of course Hook's tour is about charity.

Anyway I presume Spencer has already ordered both of those posters.

You know, it's odd that the last couple of chapters of New Order live have largely been Gillian-free. And then Hook is out and suddenly Gillian reappears. Hmmm....

Surely they've been seen in the same room before...

I think I meant maybe more that they really didn't like each other?

...because of course Hook's tour is about charity.

Because of course Hook has claimed that he's only playing two gigs and they're just for charity, and not openly said at every stage that he's doing it to earn a living.

Stephen Morris ranks the New Order discography...

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/new-order-rank-your-records

Isolation pic.twitter.com/PJlcHVawvJ

— Paul Quarantine Duane (@MrPaulDuane) May 19, 2020

answer to thread q is clearly “yes”