Scorsese's movie about Dylan

MARTIN SCORSESE DIRECTING FIRST FEATURE-LENGTH FILM BIOGRAPHY OF BOB DYLAN TO PREMIERE THIS SEPTEMBER

DOCUMENTARY PORTRAIT WILL AIR ON PBS'S AMERICAN MASTERS SERIES SEPTEMBER 26-27

PARAMOUNT HOME ENTERTAINMENT TO RELEASE DVD WITH EXTENSIVE BONUS FEATURES ONE WEEK PRIOR TO BROADCAST

Bob Dylan Fully Participates And Opens Archives For The Film, Which Features Previously Unreleased Footage From Dylan's Groundbreaking Live Concerts, Studio Recording Sessions, Outtakes, And Interviews

In an event that has brought together Bob Dylan and Martin Scorsese, two of America's most influential and revered cultural innovators, NO DIRECTION HOME: BOB DYLAN - A MARTIN SCORSESE PICTURE, a co-production of Spitfire Pictures, Greywater Park, Thirteen/WNET New York, the BBC's Arena series, and Martin Scorsese's Sikelia Productions, in association with Vulcan Productions, will make its broadcast premiere on PBS's award-winning AMERICAN MASTERS series Monday and Tuesday, September 26-27 at 9 p.m. (ET) on PBS (check local listings). The series is a production of Thirteen/WNET New York. Paramount Home Entertainment will also release a DVD version of the documentary with extensive additional never-before-seen footage.

The two-part film, which focuses on the singer-songwriter's life and music from 1961-66, includes never-seen performance footage and interviews with artists and musicians whose lives intertwined with Dylan's during that time. For the first time on camera, Dylan talks openly and extensively about this critical period in his career detailing the journey from his birthplace in Hibbing, Minnesota, to Greenwich Village, New York, where he became the center of a musical and cultural upheaval whose effects are still felt today.

For the first time, The Bob Dylan Archives has made available rare treasures from its film, tape and stills collection, including footage from the 1963, 1964 and 1965 Newport Folk Festivals, previously unreleased outtakes from D.A. Pennebaker's famed 1967 documentary Don't Look Back, and interviews with Allen Ginsberg, Pete Seeger, Joan Baez, Maria Muldauer, and many others. In anticipation of the film, members of Dylan's worldwide community of fans also contributed rarities from their own collections.

NO DIRECTION HOME: BOB DYLAN - A MARTIN SCORSESE PICTURE comes on the heels of Dylan's best-selling memoir, Chronicles: Volume I, which spent months on The New York Times Top 10 non-fiction books list.

In addition to being the director of such highly acclaimed dramatic films as Raging Bull, Goodfellas and The Aviator, Scorsese is an avid chronicler of the history of American popular music. Most recently, he executive-produced the critically hailed music miniseries The Blues, which aired on PBS, as well as the related concert film Lightning in a Bottle, directed by Antoine Fuqua. Scorsese directed the seminal documentary The Last Waltz (1978), which captured the legendary farewell concert of The Band, and he served as an assistant director and editor on Woodstock (1970).

In discussing his excitement about the current project, Scorsese remarked, "I had been a great fan for many years when I had the privilege to film Bob Dylan for The Last Waltz. I've admired and enjoyed his many musical transformations. For me, there is no other musical artist who weaves his influences so densely to create something so personal and unique. This project gives me a chance to explore one of the most exciting artists and icons of the past 50 years."

Along with Scorsese, NO DIRECTION HOME: BOB DYLAN - A MARTIN SCORSESE PICTURE is being individually produced by Jeff Rosen of Greywater Park, Nigel Sinclair of Spitfire, Anthony Wall of the BBC's Arena series, and Susan Lacy of Thirteen/WNET New York's AMERICAN MASTERS series, which has won the Emmy for Outstanding Primetime Non-Fiction Series five of the last six years.

"At a time when Dylan is exciting an entirely new fan base, he's speaking frankly about one of the most extraordinary periods in an extraordinary life," said Lacy, series creator and executive producer of AMERICAN MASTERS. "We're honored to be part of this story."

Added Spitfire's Sinclair: "Bob Dylan is a true cultural worldwide icon. This is the first time Bob has given this unprecedented access, which, coupled with Marty's outstanding filmmaking talents, should provide an unparalleled portrait of Dylan's indelible mark on the culture of the 20th century."

"This is history," said Wall, Arena series editor. "As Dylan's extraordinary career is building to another great peak, it's also a milestone for the BBC and PBS."

The film's soundtrack contains two CDs that capture the excitement of the music heard in the film. Comprised of all unreleased material, the CD set stands on its own as a vivid and sweeping collection of Bob Dylan performances from the early 1960s.

http://www.geocities.com/telephonepolesmusic

Thanks, Brian Hall.

Do love 'New Morning,' though.

I still wish Scorsese had done a documentary about the Clash instead of the Band. That blues concert doc he executive produced was not good.
http://citypages.com/movies/detail.asp?MID=6341

that said there is a very good reason for the "aura" around dylan - he's fucking good.

why only until 1966? will it end with the motorcycle crash?

I read that as 'porno' and then the world started making more sense.

Great concert footage, and the press conferences? Classic. "Why don't YOU suck on my glasses?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS4gsWDSn68

so psyched

Looks good

It’s a short step from the limo to the gutter.

https://youtu.be/iUD5snx-XOo

I mean

Impressed that he remembers all those lyrics

https://variety.com/2019/film/reviews/rolling-thunder-revue-a-bob-dylan-story-by-martin-scorsese-review-1203237011/

We also have time to note the bits of documentary fakery that Scorsese has prankishly embedded in the movie: interviews with the film’s “original” director, and with Jack Tanner (Michael Murphy) from Robert Altman’s 1988 HBO series, not to mention a made-up subplot about Sharon Stone joining the tour as a teenage fan.

The film does not quite wish to tell you what it was like in any obvious way. There is something weird and mischievous going on. The concert footage and backstage scenes appear to be drawn from the same trove of archive material that formed the basis of Bob Dylan’s lengthy and ill-fated 1978 film about the tour, Renaldo and Clara, which he co-wrote with the late Sam Shepard – who is interviewed here. Like that film, the Rolling Thunder Revue does have some personae who may not be, strictly speaking, factual. The footage is attributed to a certain dyspeptic film-maker who is actually the performance artist and comedian Martin Von Haselberg, husband of Bette Midler. A certain politician is interviewed and you may think: “Wait, that guy looks like the actor Michael Murphy.” It is the actor Michael Murphy. Could it be that this is all a modern commedia dell’arte in which, with Scorsese’s discreet assistance, Dylan is retreating behind masks, masks that might allow him to tell a higher truth?

Possibly. Scorsese drops further hints with clips from films concerned in various ways with theatrical performance: Georges Méliès’s The Vanishing Lady (1893), Marcel Carné’s Children of Paradise (1945) and Tony Gatlif’s Latcho Drom (1993). Sometimes the creative semi-remembering is a bit opaque, and there were times when I could have done with some more straightforward documentary realism. But it’s churlish to complain when this is all so gripping, both as a time capsule and as a showcase for Dylan’s unique presence and glorious performances from Baez, Mitchell and also from Patti Smith who was not actually a member of the Rolling Thunder tour but is shown performing before it got started.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jun/11/rolling-thunder-revue-a-bob-dylan-story-review-martin-scorsese

Marty takin his Spinal Tap image back from Rob Reiner

At the time Dylan said Children of Paradise influenced R&C.

In this docu I think he now says he got the whiteface from Kiss. Enfants du Paradis does contain the lines of dialogue "You go your way and I'll go mine" and "Love is so simple"...to coin a phrase.

A few years ago I attended a screening of the only known complete print of Ranaldo and Clara in the UK - looking very pink in places, but perfectly watchable - and the guy who introduced it made the good point that R&C is the single project that Dylan has spent the most time on (it was a long time in the 'editing suite').

As a non-fan I thought the film was enlightening and the old footage fantastic. The "F For Fake"-y stuff pretty inessential, honestly. Joni Mitchell stole the show as far as I'm concerned.

Halfway into this and gawd, it's dope as f.

Question for those who've seen it from a Dylan agnostic: I'm interested to see this, but I've always found the "Dylan as ultimate trickster/liar" narrative to be really tedious. How annoying is the fakey stuff in this? I wanna see this famous band shred through a bunch of great Dylan songs, but I'm not trying to see a lot of Sharon Stone doing improv or whatever is going on there.

Dylan has the best bullshit detector of anyone on screen, and it's fun watching him endure the post-hippie twaddle that he himself endorsed because the revue was, after all, his idea.

Half hour into this and totally loving it. Also, holy shit, is that Mick Ronson playing guitar in his band?

yes!

In Renaldo and Clara there's a scene where Mick Ronson won't let Ronnie Hawkins backstage. Hawkins says something like, "I don't care nothing about England or David Bouuuie or his lead guitar picker."

(I haven't seen it; that's from a friend quoting from memory.)

Sloman's book is worth tracking down also, imho.

This was fantastic. Joni's performance of "Coyote" steals the film imo. Michael Murphy and Sharon Stone sequences egregiously unnecessary, Von Dorp stuff works better (possibly because the dude playing the role is more of an unknown). Patti Smith's performance is embarrassing, Joan Baez's onstage gyrations with McGuinn are hilariously awful. Dylan and the band get in a bunch of incredible performances, my favorite being the piano-led version of "Simple Twist of Fate" (which is sadly cut short, but followed by an awesome solo Dylan version). Dylan's interview responses are all gold.

can't wait to see this

This was fantastic. Joni's performance of "Coyote" steals the film imo.

lol this will be the second classic rock film then

Dylan singing and playing while walking among a crowd at a native american reservation also pretty eye-popping

Agree that "Coyote" is stinking, fully formed.

is that a typo

stonking, I'm guessing.

lol

Stunning

She put some real stank on that version.

I don't get the point of the fake stories and characters, but all the footage looks and sounds great.

I don't get the point of the fake stories and characters

Dylan literally tells the viewer what the point is when he quotes Oscar Wilde

Dylan is a faker and pisser and poseur -- closer to Bowie than any folkie.

"He’s a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception."

— Joni Mitchell

Last night I could not believe that I was seeing Joan Baez squatting and gyrating to "Eight Miles High" played by McGuinn and Ronson…how did Ronson end up with this gig? Most everyone else involved, you understand how they got there…

Also amazing to see the footage from the same performance of "Isis" that I've known for 31 years…

I had problems, particularly how the film in some ways presents Ginsberg as a homo court jester. And I can't stand this post-hippie blather that had little room for women and gays, especially in a film whose participants claim they essayed commedia dell'arte. Still!

Last night I could not believe that I was seeing Joan Baez squatting and gyrating to "Eight Miles High" played by McGuinn and Ronson

is THAT what she was dancing (badly but endearingly) to? I couldn't tell. I mentioned it my review.

i guess not everyone caught I'm Not There xxxp

another point: at various times onstage, Dylan (along w McGuinn in the final performance clip) looks completely crazed while singing. Perhaps accentuated by the excessive guyliner, but it's certainly striking.

I think so, but that was right before I went to bed so I wuz sleepy…am I allowed to say that Allen Ginsberg, Joan Baez and Patti smith all fuckin' suck? So many bogus-ass people were drawn to the guy and here they test the upper limits of post-hippie obsequiousness…

I think there should be some long form but not academic article about Dylan cinema. Like, one thing that I'd like explored is how does the now forgotten Masked & Anon. tell us about Renaldo & Clara and I'm not There?

Smith and Ginsberg suck, Baez is such a marvelous camera prsence.

*presence

Glad to hear that it sounds like we finally at long last have some footage of Patti Smith talking about arthur rimbaud - always been interested to hear her thoughts on that obscure figure

she's embarrassing by my lights

her NYC accent is the best, though (Artur RAMBO)

ah I love Ginsberg, it's Smith and Baez I have no time for. Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful. As Alfred notes, her dressing up as Bob and fooling the whole crew is a highlight.

I watched Masked and Anonymous fairly recently, there's a bunch of good stuff in it.

how did Ronson end up with this gig?

IIRC, the story went that Ronson was working in New York at the time. He was introduced to Dylan, and then was brought on as sort of a band leader. Ronson connected with McGuinn on the tour, leading to him producing McGuinn's Cardiff Rose album, which had most of the Revue players as the session band.

Ronson is quoted in the doc as saying, "He didn't even know my name."

Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful.

I thought she came off very well, and while she's no way his equal she's no hanger-on and reminds me a bit of Connie in The Godfather series: she can tell him to fuck off to his face b/c she knows exactly where every body is buried. And in her own right she's a wonderful camera presence.

I think there should be some long form but not academic article about Dylan cinema. Like, one thing that I'd like explored is how does the now forgotten Masked & Anon. tell us about Renaldo & Clara and I'm not There?

Ebert on "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid": "Bob Dylan plays a character named Alias, and should have used one. His screen presence makes him look as if he's the victim of a practical jokes involving itching powder."

let's not forget "Hearts of Fire"

Is that the one where he plays a chainsaw artist?

no, that's All About Eve

Ebert otm.

Yeah, Baez doing some weird Perry Farrell moves to a jammed out Eight Miles High was some amazing viewing.

you missed the part when she covers "Been Caught Stealing"!

I just watched an hour and 15 mins, and Bob is having the time of his life in the retrospective interviews…like when he says that Scarlet was going with "the leader of Kiss…"also, was there another era where he really went for it as a showman, as he is doing here? as opposed to my own experience, in person or on TV, in which he dodders around seemingly stoned and does not seemed concerned with the prerogatives nominally prized by show biz professionals?

was there another era where he really went for it as a showman

he's *always* onstage

or rather "onstage" I guess. "song and dance man" etc.

is this showbiz enough for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qE6WQmNus

The answer to all of the questions raised in this thread about this movie are the same.

Cocaine.

"Why is that person g-"
Cocaine
"How come Sam Shepard want-"
Cocaine
"What's with Dylan and acting all-"
COCAINE

This movie made me have cocaine thoughts just watching.

This movie out cocaines the Last Waltz.

THE LAST WALTZ

Was about to say earlier on when someone mentioned Dylan looking crazed.

The use of Ginsberg slightly offended me: "Hey, here's this homo jester, let's laugh at him but he's kinda cool." Otoh most of these men and women act like children. When I got to the end, I almost understood why Reagan got elected.

“Must be Santa” is ‘enough’ of a lot of things for me, but ‘showbiz’ not in the top 20

I thought Ginsberg's hippy dippy benediction at the end was genuinely moving but admit that might be just because he reminds me so much of the Jewish side of my family

also liked how Ginsberg's facial hair/haircut changed throughout the film - one minute he looks like David Cross in a fake beard, the next hey its Wallace Shawn

Patti Smith is great, but her south Jersey accent is so strong, it's jarring.

xpost Wasn't that the whole Boomer 70s trip? - post-hippie adolescent narcissism, the Me Generation and all that. Patti Smith sounded like Gibby in Blind Eye Sees All.

Ginsberg is just being Ginsberg, mad holy fool of the underground.

Also amazing to see the footage from the same performance of "Isis" that I've known for 31 years…

Not to make this a Patti Smith pile-on but, as someone who was once enthralled by her boho punk poet thing...the more I watch old footage of her outside of the admittedly often enchanted circle of her PS Group - and this includes current era Patti Smith public appearances, writings etc - the more I realize she was and is a canny namedropping scenester who was waaay out of her league and has always used that shit to build herself up. Sorry but that's how I call it.

And Joan Baez's dancing was fucking horrific and hilarious.

xp That’s pretty much how she was portrayed in that Please Kill Me book, IIRC? (I have no opinion of her as an artist, tho I’ve heard a few cool/nice personal things)

Not to make this a Patti Smith pile-on but, as someone who was once enthralled by her boho punk poet thing...the more I watch old footage of her outside of the admittedly often enchanted circle of her PS Group - and this includes current era Patti Smith public appearances, writings etc - the more I realize she was and is a canny namedropping scenester who was waaay out of her league and has always used that shit to build herself up. Sorry but that's how I call it.

but this isn't pejorative! I admire her for it.

It's been years since I read Please Kill Me so don't recall that offhand but I'd concur.

I dunno, Alfred. It truly makes me cringe.

aside from her handful of high points, has always been a Boring Hippie

"Way out of her league" is wrong in that she got John Cale to produce her first album and moved on from album to album.

I find much to dislike about her, as I pointed out, but you make her sound like a stupid groupie.

I mean --- subtlety is something I admire if you're gonna "make the scene". And after a certain age it just comes across as embarrassing.

"Stupid" or "groupie" are two things I wouldn't call her for sure.

Not knowing her biography very well but that she broke out around 75 I was watching the doc and thinking she was like 20 or 21 maybe and cutting her some slack. But no, as I’m sure most of y’all already knew she was like 28/29 then.

I like her records but reading Just Kids really reinforced a negative impression for me of PS being phony. Many bogus scenes of her portraying herself as a wide-eyed naif, where like shes at a restaurant and she notices a guy wearing a hat that reminds her of a hat she read about in a Rimbaud poem and as if in a dream she finds herself compelled to approach him and begin reciting her poetry and then she's amazed to find out later that he was a famous musician or writer or art scene figure who thinks she'd be perfect for this upcoming project and can you imagine that, all because of Rimbaud's hat?

I can.

Rimbaud's hat?

patti smith really is a total fake in so many ways, someone who seems to have spent her entire life carefully and consciously trying to be the coolest person in the room, to the point where she's doing that even today (when it's hard to imagine she has anything to gain from it). but her best records + performances are so good it kinda doesn't matter to me.

and tbh while i will always love his early poetry, allen ginsberg's reputation + legacy looks a lot worse than patti smith's these days.

I’m watching it now, and Smith’s opening number at the folk club is pretty compelling.

Lol @ this loopy flirt convo btw. Dylan and a woman at a party

And now Ratso does a postmortem interview with her about it? These ppl weir so f’in weird

Holy shot, I didn’t know Jim Gianopulos was involved in this.

sidebar re Patti
i should let it go but i won’t
I will stan Patti Smith to my grave
she is the patron saint of awkward self-conscious, poetry-loving, music-obsessed horny women who wears her fandoms as armor in a way that for me completely changed the possibilities of how to ~be~ in the world.
I get that this can be an annoying affectation to most but she frees my soul & always has

it bugs me that criticisms of her feel so pointed & cruel like she kicked everyone’s dog or something by “behaving in this way” idk

loved her opening performance at the club <3

Why is this Sharon Stone segment necessarily a put-on(?) She was born in ‘58, so she was in fact a teenager at the time (as she claims); why did one of those reviews of this doc say she‘s too young for it to be real?

if you can’t tell it’s made up idk what to tell you

i love the “Isis” performance

I would never have known, lol. It didn’t seem “marked” in any particular way

lol it set my bullshit detector RIGHT off

i fkn hate all the fakery fake interview bob-myth shit, i’d happily watch the concert & intersitial footage for hours tho

also i have all the time in the world for sam shepard & joan baez interviews

Oh, that reviewer I mentioned was Alfred, lol. (Alfred, what’d ya mean about the calculator?)

Wait, so this Dutch filmmaker is also fake? What an odd deal... I wouldn’t have known that, either.

I agree, the concert footage (and some of the other stuff from the time) is fantastic.

I never loved the violin on Desire (or the album too much generally), but Scarlet Rivera is really cool onstage.

the dutch film maker irl is Bette Midler’s husband

scarlet is my fave

I guess the Jim G. thing is also fake? His Wikipedia page doesn’t say nuthin’ about Dylan or music.

I dunno, whatever, man. Guess I don’t “get it”

It’s like that thing where someone tells you a totally believable, reasonable-sounding lie; then says “April Fool! You fell for it!” And you’re like... uh, ok.

forget it jake, it’s Dylantown

I watched the Patti Smith bits the way I always experience (most of) her work: crouching behind my couch waiting for it to end.

The Joni performance (at Gordon Lightfoot's house, with McGuinn and Dylan strumming along!) was breath-taking.

I could have done with more Scarlet Rivera. And Joan Baez! I think her interviews in both Scorsese/Dylan docs are great.

I have to admit I don't really enjoy most of the actual Rolling Thunder music. Dylan's still much too shouty on stage for my taste in that period.

Oh, and was Bob Neuwirth actually well-known as a performer back then? I know he was a famous hanger-on and sometime songwriter, but it was odd seeing the promoters handing out flyers for the shows shouting, "Come see Bob Dylan! Joan Baez! Bob Neuwirth!"

Oh, that reviewer I mentioned was Alfred, lol. (Alfred, what’d ya mean about the calculator?)

There's no way she could've been old enough to have met Dylan, I thought. I was wrong, though. I got her age from an inaccurate sight.

But, yeah, she was obviously, uh, getting into the spirit of exaggeration regardless lol

I got her age from an inaccurate sight.

This is a hilarious typo.

Worthy of Dylan!

sun's not yellow!

It’s chiXen

jarring to hear P Smith's accent, don't think I've previously heard her speak in footage of those days …subsequenly, she obviously fixed it in the manner that many trying to make it in the whichever big leagues in question do, whether yr from the south or mass, wherever…she doesn't sound like that now or since she came back in '88. or maybe her years in Detroit smoothed it out… is there a distinct Detroit accent? or is it part of the flat midwest affect?

If anything, this thing makes me appreciate this moment in his career better…previously I thought this was a step backward, associating with all these careerist folkies like Neuwirth…like at least his tour with the Band was with THE BAND, which consider to be an unbeatable, super special rock and roll band…and the Rolling Thunder experience sounded unwieldy in comparison, wrt to the 2002 bootleg…but the tour with the Band was too big for him, too redolent of the gigantic big money CSNY tour around the same time? does anyone have anything nice to say about the Street Legal World Tour? I've never listened to Live at Budokan, but my understanding is that its the point of his career unlikely to ever be rehabilitated.

God, what a snivelling toady Ratso is here… he's the Renfield of Dylan, although he has much competition…

Our thread on Street-Legal is very good, with plenty on Budokan and the other contemporaneous (and better) shows: Bob Dylan's "Street Legal" - Classic or Dud?

sidebar re Patti
i should let it go but i won’t
I will stan Patti Smith to my grave...

loved her opening performance at the club <3

― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 June 2019 05:06 (eight hours ago) Permalink

I'm sort of Patti agnostic, a bit, but so when her performance started initially it I was "oh man...yeesh" but, in this weird way she has, that like no other performer I can think of does, it starts to coalesce and gather up steam and then almost like a magic trick, almost as if her early awkwardness wasn't awkward at all but part of a strategy to totally wrong-foot the audience and then sneak up on them, it was breath-taking.

My dad was running down this doc last night and how much he loved it and I told him about all the fake stuff and it BLEW HIS MIND, which was pretty hilarious.

"Come see Bob Dylan! Joan Baez! Bob Neuwirth!"

I also thought this was funny (and took it as a potential “in-joke,” though maybe it wasn’t). But I also couldn’t identify Neuwirth; I only know his Dylan-clone look in Don’t Look Back.

What that’s weird word Dylan and Neuwirth has for jiving people, gondorfing or something?

Gandalfing

https://media.giphy.com/media/TcdpZwYDPlWXC/giphy.gif

Haha, that was my other guess.

it's hilarious to me that Patti Smith is being called out as a pretentious, manipulative bullshit artist on a thread about....Bob Dylan

Dylan has better songs

I'm somewhat familiar with his work

what difference does that make?

Bob Dylan never wrote lyrics for Blue Oyster Cult -- Patti 1, Bob 0

women who are musicians have to tread carefully and be humble iirc

some real opinions in this thread!
i thought patti was cool in the doc — and she's only in it for about a minute, so it's no biggie, right?
i kind of like the idea of the fictionalized hijinks in theory, but I'm not sure how i feel about them in practice. i wouldn't be mad if come christmas they put out a DVD that just had the full live performances. and jesus christ, i want to watch the raw footage of those rehearsals too!

I also thought Patti was cool; this is the first time I've seen footage of her performing. The hard anti-Patti takes are... something

Janet Maslin's original NYT review of Renaldo and Clara...https://t.co/sYjPZOOhZM

— Jeffrey St. Clair (@JSCCounterPunch) June 14, 2019

xpost "Shooting Shark" is such an ill jawn

I've been surprised by the criticism that Smith got here yesterday. If I were on the make, I'd hang out in scenes too -- what's the problem?

I'm so excited for this movie, saving it for Sunday night

Glissendorf

God, this snippet of "Simple Twist of Fate" at the senior center / retirement home(?) is amazing

I really wanna see/hear that whole performance, why do they cut out?

all of the audio of that one is on the bonus disc of the new boxed set

In the fall of 1975 Sharon Stone was attending a school (Edinboro University of Pennsylvania) that was a 7 1/2 hour drive from the nearest Rolling Thunder tour stop (Springfield, MA).

Man, Dylan REALLY wanted to add layers to his shoehorning of KISS into this story.

This Ronee Blakley interview is long, but (IMO) pretty interesting: https://variety.com/2019/music/news/ronee-blakley-interview-rolling-thunder-revue-1203243802/

I am about halfway through this and think it is incredible. I wasn't sure what I was going to think about the made up stuff, but I love it. Basically this film is Masked and Anonymous 0.5 or 2.0 or whatever, but a lot lighter and funnier.

The Sharon Stone thing is pretty funny with the stuff about Okuni v. KISS as the source of the face paint. A few years later Dylan would be ranting from stage that, "You can go and see KISS and you can rock 'n' roll all the way down to the pit!"

I waited until about a quarter of the way through to tell my wife about the made up parts. She did a double take and looked at me like I was crazy.

The musical performances are amazing on a musical as well as visual level. He is so intense on the opening Mr. Tambourine Man; my favorite version. Other times, it is amazing to see Bob so cavalier on stage, yet there is an intensity to Bob even in these moments, like even his casualness is studied.

There was one shot of the stage where it seemed like there were ten people on stage. Four guitarists! Like tyler, I wish we had another movie of just the full concert and rehearsal performances.

There are so many great lines about this so far: The crap Bob acknowledges spewing at the very beginning, "A Bob Dylan Story", "We didn't have enough masks on for that tour", "Life is not about finding yourself, life is about creating yourself." "Nothing is revealed" indeed.

Also, I get criticisms of Patti Smith on one level as there is a try-hardness about her that can be grating. Like Jim Morrison, she resembles a high schooler with their first poetry. Yet I usually can put those feelings aside for her (or Morrison) because I love and respect someone for not caring and just going there. She has a presence that, for me, ultimately sells bullshit I would normally not take.

Roger McGuinn looks like Ozzy Osbourne in this.

Is he sweaty and wearing a tight paunch-enhancing leotard?

Ha, no. More the hair and the eyes and the expression.

Lol my wife made that comparison too

fortunately no one in the film was on coke.

At one point in one of the songs I swore that Ronson played the main lick from "Song For Bob Dylan," because that would be kind of hilarious. But I watched the film again and now I can't find it and I think I must have imagined it.

How soon after- or before!- did a bunch of these guys get religion/go Xtian, including the Mormon just mentioned?

Also, lol Alfred

Not even going to FP you for not recognizing “Eight Miles High.”

Does Jacques Levy ever appear in this in any noticeable fashion?

I liked Joan’s story abt pretending to be Dylan

And Joni just hanging out playing Coyote <3

https://variety.com/2019/film/columns/why-did-martin-scorsese-prank-his-audience-in-rolling-thunder-revue-1203243856/

I'm so wedded to '65-'66 Dylan, it'd be impossible for me to like this more than No Direction Home (or, for that matter, Eat The Document). Bias noted, I thought it was pretty great--doubt my attention flagged for more than 10 minutes (pretty much the whole of the "Hurricane" detour, which I've never liked and seemed especially bombastic here).

Yes, this needs a spoiler alert, so don't read any further if you haven't seen it. Being a big Tanner fan, I loved Michael Murphy's bit. Didn't hear a sound, no whispering or laughing; I'm fairly sure every single person there (the theatre was almost full) bought it. You can probably guess the punchline: doofus here was completely reeled in by the filmmaker, Ratso, and Sharon Stone. (The possibility occurred to me about 10 minutes after the film ended, as I got in the car to head home, now confirmed.)

Loved the trap-door beginning, Dylan explaining the meaning of Rolling Thunder. I always find Dylan talking about Joan Baez moving, and Baez talking about Dylan hilarious. So much else to single out...Thought "Mr. Tambourine Man" at the beginning and "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" at the end were great.

To me it seemed obvious--medicine show, revue, whatever; Dylan would never even entertain the thought--that Rolling Thunder was basically Dylan's attempt to create his own version of arch-nemesis Warhol's Factory. That project is already underway in Don't Look Back, and it's probably true, to a degree, of anyone that famous, but it really jumped out early on, when somebody described Dylan being courted by everyone in the room in a way that was Warhol through and through.

Levy is very briefly identified.

Mr Veg got me the box set :D

Jealous! Dub me off a copy of the bonus disc???? 😁

I misread and misunderstood going in, thinking that one member of the revue was going to be fellow Bob Johnston client Michael Martin Murphey and there was going to be some kind of onstage "Chestnut Mare" vs. "Wildfire" FITE!

Levy is very briefly identified.

― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Saturday, June 15, 2019 7:39 PM (forty-nine minutes ago)

That Gleiberman Variety piece is interesting, the (disapproving) connection of the fakery with Trump. But saying Scorsese is "playing catch-up to the 'reality' era" seems off--surely he was already anticipating, along with Albert Brooks, the blurring of that line with King of Comedy.

I didn’t read the piece but I think it makes more sense to connect it to Dylan’s entire career than Donald fucking Trump.

He's talking about his reaction to the film, not really the film itself--that for him it didn't sit right in the Trump moment.

Sometimes wonder if Dylan got the idea for the name Rolling Thunder from the lyrics of "How Great Thou Art," maybe whilst listening to Elvis sing it.

surely the Vietnam War

Yes, that's most likely it, but I still wonder if this other use of the phrase influenced his thinking as well.

They also called the band 'Guam'.

Dylan named the tour after hearing the continuous sounds of thunder one day.[6]

Oh yeah, forgot about Guam.

Yet don’t see Stoner, Ronson, or Dylan dancing
Think I saw some of them briefly joining in on some Native American dance.

Enjoying this right now, or at least I thought it was. It turns out I was only enjoying it while Bob Dylan was performing or talking, and the rest of it I really wasn't paying attention.

Suddenly occured to me that Sam Sheppard has been dead for two full years. I wonder how long ago this movie got moving?

Also, jesus, these people are on all of the drugs. I know it is looking from the wrong end of the timeline, but I kept thinking of those clips of Fleetwood Mac on the Mirage tour, and especially Lindsay Buckingham, wigging out.

bug-eyed sweaty McGuinn is peak cocaine

I wonder how long ago this movie got moving?

My guess is that it’s something that “Marty” fiddled with for a while — maybe in between other projects — and finally said “OK, good enough.” The editing feels somewhat random.

Rubin Carter is interviewed, I assume by Scorsese(?), and he died in 2014.

...or maybe Scorsese got some of those interview clips from elsewhere; after all, there are also retrospective interviews with an older Allen Ginsberg, and he died in ‘97.

Anyway, I finally watched the final half hour tonight. I’ve seen far better docs, about subjects I was far less interested in. Great to see all the old tour footage, anyway.

Yeah I don’t think in this case it’s the film itself that’s anything earth shattering but more that the performances & personalities & general vibe is cool to hang out with for a while

I liked the Patti Smith parts

Watched it last night while half drunk and loved it, having read nothing about it. The Stone/documentary maker/Jimmy Carter bits surprised me and felt jarring, but I didn't realise they were fiction. I'm a P-Smith agnostic but I loved her appearance, also Joni, and Mick Ronson looking like Paul Calf. Would liked to have seem more of the old people's centre and the reservation.

I can totally see the conversation now

Marty: I ... I don't know, Bob. I'm really struggling to find a shape to this thing. I don't know if I can finish it.
Bob: (grumbling) Why doncha just ... make something up?
Marty: Can ... can I do that?
Bob: Sure, of course you can.
Marty: Huh. Wait, it's coming together. It'll be a statement on the malleable nature of the truth, centered around a figure - you, Bob! - famous for his mercurial personality and mysterious motivations. We'll have actors, poets, playwrights, it'll be a veritable Rolling Thunder Review unto itself! It'll be like untying a knot at one end of the rope, while tying a new one at the other end! It'll be like a magic trick where the *rabbit* pulls the *magician* out of a hat! It'll be like ... Bob? Bob, are you still there?
Bob: ...
Marty: I think we lost Bob. Did anyone see where he went? Do we have Sharon Stone's agent?

But seriously, I wasn't able to finish it last night. At least it's not as long as the George Harrison doc, I don't think.

I thought Ginsberg's hippy dippy benediction at the end was genuinely moving
― Οὖτις

Same--perfect exit. And I loved Baez dancing to "Eight Miles High."

It's about time we got a Ginsberg documentary, so long as we get the truth about his NAMBLA associations.

Saw one many years ago, probably the American Masters episode:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107411/

Can't remember in how much detail (if at all) it went into that particular subject.

Josh, I like yr imaginary Marty/Bob dialogue.

Seconded

jfc I never knew about the Ginsberg nambla stuff

yeah me neither

Reading the Ronee Blakley interview now.
She’s also known for her solo albums and roles in “Nightmare on Elm Street” and “The Driver” on screen and “Pump Boys and Dinettes” on Broadway.
Saw the original production of the last-mentioned before she got there, I think. Thought it would die on the vine.
https://people.com/archive/gone-from-nashville-ronee-blakley-is-waiting-tables-in-pump-boys-and-dinettes-vol-18-no-21/
Guess it fills some sort of niche.

Seems it wasn't an old folks home after all.

Where did you go first?
We went to Falmouth, Mass., where we stayed in a rambling motel that was out of season for the beach crowd; it was already fall with winter coming on. But there was a mahjong tournament taking place, with all ladies, and they filled up the main dining hall at dinner, and we put on a show for them. Allen Ginsberg read that night to the ladies, as you see in the film. I shaved Allen’s beard off that night, because I wanted to see his face, and he let me. That’s why at the beginning of the film he has a beard and then at a certain point he doesn’t.

i figured it was a tournament or a social group - no way an old folks home would have that many well-dressed *cheerful* women in one place together, especially back then lol

Yes, you are on the ball as usual.

In connection with Ronee Blakley, I thought the whole thing about Dylan telling Sharon Stone that he'd written "Just Like a Woman" for her may have been lifted, consciously or not, from Keith Carradine's "I'm Easy" scene in Nashville--I have to believe Dylan was very aware of the film, as Blakley's presence in Rolling Thunder would suggest.

I guess the presence of that “Jack Tanner” character (whose interviews I skipped through) is another Altman connection.

Maybe the Rolling Thunder crew felt to Scorsese like an Altman movie, or something.

I can see that--Altman's Garrison Keillor film felt very Rolling Thunder-ish (in that Keillor and Dylan are drawing from some of the same sources).

(You guys know that Michael Murphy is one of the stars of Nashville, right?)

I happened to catch a screening of Nashville and see Rolling Thunder in the same week and the two films do kind of blend together quite a bit

According to Will Hermes in Love Goes To Buildings On Fire, not only was Patti Smith asked to joined the tour, which she declined, Lou Reed was asked as well.

So much blue denim on the Rolling Thunder tour, as if Dylan sent out a directive for everyone to wear it

Funny, cuz I watched this directly after the Blue Jean Committee episodes of Documentary Now. Recommended.

Lou Reed was asked as well.

Lol.

Found another reference to this, from none other than Ratso himself:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dylan-and-friends-on-the-bus-like-a-rolling-thunder-233962/

In fact, the only picker who met up with the Thunder crew and didn’t get swept up into it was Lou Reed

Here’s some stuff about Bob Neuwirth I didn’t know, including an interesting songwriting credit and belonging to a supergroup of sorts: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-11-17-ca-1763-story.html

"The most exciting thing since Rolling Thunder that I've been connected with is this trio thing."

Also still lolling inside at idea of Lou Reed as a picker, a sweep picker no less.

I can totally imagine Lou Reed boasting of his sweep picking prowess but refusing to demonstrate it for anyone because it's a flashy cliche or whatever.

I've finally watched this and liked it a lot although I can't stand Dylan's "rock" live performances from that era (the accoustics ones are good) !
So many great moments : Dylan driving the tour bus himself, Baez amazing dance, their awkward conversation about their mariages, the rehearsals, Joni Mitchell's "Coyote" with Dylan on backing guitar....
I think the only things I didn't like were some "fake" parts and even that is not really a problem (well, the S. Stone part could have been reduced to just the initial t-shirt story... the rest might be the most cringey aspect of the movie)...

wtf is sweep picking btw?

Playing fast changing arpeggios, more or less. You see it it jazz and country more than rock, but the shredder guys all do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLn5g5qIb2k

https://www.loudersound.com/features/mick-ronson-s-greatest-moments

M. Ronson's shredding was great. Also lol Bob not talking to him during the tour !

And the concert at the old folks community center is so wtf from everybody's point of view...

There’s some funny comments about all this from Ian Hunter in that link.

Bob probably didn't talk to him because he couldn't understand his accent.

All in all, I think that might be the most interesting, entertaining and funniest Dylan doc/movie (although I loved the Pennebacker ones for other reasons).
I mean just the McGuinn/Dylan duo at the end is amazing crazy !

I've heard lots of stories of people hanging around or with Bob on tour and otherwise and never talking to him, from Steve Earle to Pete Townshend. Even the people who work with him. There's that great story of Charlie McCoy working on a session in NY or whatever and then getting introduced to Dylan and Dylan basically asking him on the spot to record something. Dylan drops him right into Desolation Row, which iirc McCoy had never heard and which he only took one run at, and that was that, at least for then.

lol love Petrucci got in this thread

but to be clear, sweep picking isn't just fast playing arpeggios, it's playing the up and down the fretboard picking all down strokes, then all up strokes back down allows for more efficient shredding than doing alternate picking

also if it wasn't the fake art film Bette Midlers husband who filmed the original footage, who did?

Howard Alk and co. one assumes

Howard Alk was the main filmmaker/collaborator with Dylan. They also put together Eat The Document. Alk is sort of a shadowy figure in the Dylan saga — committed suicide in the early 80s I think?

Never heard of him except in this context, so yeah, shadowy.

Leaving him out of the new film feels meaningful — he and Sara Dylan were major parts of the rolling thunder revue but they’re both nowhere to be found here.

hmmm

that's kind of fucked up because honesty the more I think about this, I think that for me 75% of what makes this great is that footage

the new Dylan and Joan interviews were great but the fakery stuff didn't do much for me

that footage of Dylan and Joan at a bar kind of wistfully talking about why they didn't end up together was really affecting

Dylan driving the tour bus himself

I had a chuckle at that. Breaker breaker, good buddy.

Another great quick bit was the group singing "Love Potion No. 9". Joni really got into it.

They should have done the Tijuana Brass version.

Dylan driving bus was amusing. Missing Sara was kind of disturbing, I guess.

And maybe a way to be left alone on the road... but I'm not sure there's another example of a big star driving his/her own tour bus !

I wonder what his handle was.

Do you really think he drove the bus that often, aside from that clip?

Jack Frost drove it the other times iirc

Well I suppose he didn't drive it THE WHOLE tour but there are at least a couple or more moments in the filmm where you can see him driving.

that's kind of fucked up because honesty the more I think about this, I think that for me 75% of what makes this great is that footage
i might be wrong, but alk's absence might be more of a covert tribute — from what I gather, he was as responsible for eat the document and renaldo and clara's overall aesthetic/vision as Dylan ... so I get the feeling he might approve of the weird subterfuge of the new doc.

the new Dylan and Joan interviews were great but the fakery stuff didn't do much for me

that footage of Dylan and Joan at a bar kind of wistfully talking about why they didn't end up together was really affecting

I thought that conversation between Dylan and Joan was contrived to the point that maybe it was scripted for Renaldo and Clara except she refers to him as Bob. Regardless, the entire movie is fake in the sense that the purposes for which the footage was filmed all those years ago is not the same purposes to which it is put now. It’s one of the most Bob things Bob has ever done.

Yeah, immediately after watching couldn’t remember whether that convo was or was supposed to be new footage or old footage.

it felt very strange for them, esp Bob, to be talking that intimately on camera about their relationship so i still am not sure if it was legit

it was affecting nonetheless

That’s what I love about this so much: just like Bob, it’s mostly fake yet 100% true.

“And him that tells a bigger tale would have to tell a lie.”

I had seen some headlines about fake stuff in this, but I didn't know the extent of it going in. In fact I still don't. I will admit that I didn't catch on to the film director guy until after it was over. Who knows to what extent that Dylan/Baez convo was scripted, although it seemed spontaneous to me, and no question there is something emotionally real going on there.

I think some people are annoyed because, weirdly and despite him always seemingly actively working against it, for a lot of people Dylan is seen as Mr Auteur Genius Singer Songwriter - Mr Authentic who is writing true things about truth - the guy who influenced a million boys to badly busk Blowing In the Wind to make them seem poetic. and thats obviously in direct contrast to fake pop posers - who couldn't possibly express truth. that notion of authenticity was totally alien to music fans before the 50s - nobody gave a fuck who wrote a song or whether it really reflected that persons "truth" - the PR / self-creation of "Dylan" was totally a spearhead for the creation of that aura - and I enjoy the fact that he's always recognised it and questioned it. I forget which book i read on this but it tied that trend to the transition from disposable 7" singles to the (more profitable) album "as artistic statement".... I guess Its important for journalists/think piece writers to play into that narrative because it brings validity to writing about pop songs and can let some of them feel better about making a living doing clickbait top 10s and recaps. If a guy like Dylan suddenly says "lol fuck that this is all a bunch of lies" its no wonder some of them get pissed off.

feel free to rearrange that stream of consciousness into something that makes sense though?

Freewheelin' jamiesummerz

https://external-preview.redd.it/eck3BUOhERZnWiO5HUWWJIjoFGB8zX0qtoLLoeQ9Y_0.jpg?auto=webp&s=75762613954c9158f46c8ba534a1dde96454f457

The revue was a cool idea with great performances and I wish he would have continued with it.

Lollin throughout though whenever Ronson appears

Still wistfully imagining the picking in the parallel universe revue of Ronno and Reed on say, “Satellite of Love.”

I can totally hear how Dylan singing Satellite of Love would go

Ha, I was just hearing that in my head as well.

The revue was a cool idea with great performances and I wish he would have continued with it.

He kind of went for something similar during his wandering the wilderness years, right? When he was touring with the Dead and later Tom Petty? Kind of hitching his wagon to someone else's scene, taking the pressure off for a while (fittingly, when he was probably least deserving of attention, too).

pretty tough to imagine Lou fitting in with the Revue, even with Ronson on board ... though maybe a country-fried "Vicious," "Sweet Jane" or "Waiting for the Man" would work.

xp:
There are these little pauses in the vocal that fit his phrasing:
Satellite’s gone... way up to MARS!

Feel like if Lou was there it would only be fair to invite Nico as well.

pretty tough to imagine Lou fitting in with the Revue, even with Ronson on board ... though maybe a country-fried "Vicious," "Sweet Jane" or "Waiting for the Man" would work.

but de-SPIIITE of all the am-pu-TAAA-tions

xp:
There are these little pauses in the vocal that fit his phrasing:
Satellite’s gone... way up to MARS!

Nope

but maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taCjAIWg36c

Gerald Malanga and Joan Baez could do... some sort of dance.

Aargh Gerard!

BTE

Sorry, meant to put that on the Miles thread.

Saw it for a second time last night. I'm just not bothered by the fake stuff--I think it's funny that I was so badly fooled. (VG above said it's easy to spot Sharon Stone as fake. I gotta disagree--unless you know about Michael Murphy/Tanner (I did), and you join the dots from him to Stone (I didn't), I don't know why you'd doubt the legitimacy of what she says--it's such a definitive '70s story.

The one I still find confusing is Ratso. There's all that footage of him from '76...or is it that that was just some flunky along for the tour, not a Rolling Stone reporter, and the modern-day actor is a different guy?

the filmmaker fooled me
I think it was the thing of him directing the Shocking Blue video, such a random reference I guess I didn't think they made it up

The Shocking Blue detour was totally convincing! I mean, who think to have that as part of a fake resume?

pretty tough to imagine Lou fitting in with the Revue, even with Ronson on board ... though maybe a country-fried "Vicious," "Sweet Jane" or "Waiting for the Man" would work.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 19 June 2019 15:35 (thirty-four minutes ago) Permalink

I don't know that the Revue could have handled another shit-talking moody grump

The one I still find confusing is Ratso. There's all that footage of him from '76...or is it that that was just some flunky along for the tour,

Why wouldn’t that be Ratso?

Yeah, Ratso was there and wrote a book about it.

Okay, but I read something that included him--along with Van Dorp, Stone, Murphy, and the promoter--as part of the ruse.

I read something like that as well. Oh wait, it was posted by you.

Had me going for a long time, longer than I’d care to admit.

Thought maybe Ratso was pretending to be Bob to some Plymouth residents and you were taken in too.

Recently learned that Joan Baez gave him that nickname, I believe.

Also google image search of Gerard Malanga is - surprise!- NSFW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jksNntjfFiE

Ratso has gone, out in disguise

Driving the bus, I walk the line.

I drove it for a little while,
I like to drive RVs

Hahaha

S. Stone's story was annoying and ridiculous considering it's a fake and why did they bother making it up etc.
But if I had not known it was a fake I would have believed it was real (and still annoying !).

The filmmakaer, on the other hand, was so obviously fake to me. And also useless. But I suppose that's the idea !

Ronno has left, the Spiders from Mars
Allen G’s hat, has stripes and stars
I played guitar a little while
I love to pick for Bobby Z

/Rolling Thunderthighs Inevitably

Isis was incredible, I was hanging on every word there.

i am 6 discs into the box set now (Harvard Square show is where i am up to iirc)

i am SO over “Hurricane” but conversely, cannot get enough of “Isis”

lively version of This Land Is Your Land closing out Harvard Sq was A+

live shows definitely more enjoyable than the rehearsal discs, but i am not a huge fan of rehearsal-listening in general

bob & joan singing together is magic, i love it

Something I read prompted me to include Ratso in the fakery, but I must have misread whatever it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7WQbIu3qI

Ratso’s a real guy who seems like a fictional character. (His book about the tour is worth reading, if you run across a dog-eared copy somewhere.)

wgaf about ratso
Big D looks absolutely possessed during these performances. The close ups are horrifying

Lol, otm.

Ratso’s more interesting than any of “Marty’s” Hollywood buddies pretending they were on the tour.

idgaf abt ratso myself

late to this, finally finished last night

Impressed that he remembers all those lyrics

― calstars

yep, I thought this as well, I think Joan even mentions "I wouldn't remember all those words" when she & Bob are talking abt "Hattie Carroll"

I loved the Sharon Stone bit cuz it could have been true

Dylan sings with such confrontational intensity on this, like he's really got something to prove, I don't think it was just the coke (which was clearly all over the place just off-screen)

I also wondered if "Coyote" was written abt Ratso given the conversation he relates right before that footage

Joni had higher standards maybe? Well maybe not?

I always thought Coyote was p obviously about Sam Shepard? if you feel the need for literal/autobio interpretations (I generally don't)

think it's sam shepard. though there is a pretty hilarious lengthy argument/interview with joni in ratso's book.

Yeah who cares

oh god keep your greasy paws off Joni, Ratso!!

Isn’t “fat man in Paris” also about ratso?

Ginsberg at the very end was by far the best thing about the entire movie.

Uhhh, did you see the other Ginsberg stuff?

Yeah, but those last few lines (and Joni Mitchell singing) were the most lovely and inspiring parts of the whole 2+ hours. Beautiful.

Yeah I also enjoyed that breezy yet meaningful sermon at the end. But man the David Cross resemblance is jarring

I was amused by the scene where Ginsberg tried to use the Cowboys & Indians wax figures as a kind of “teachable moment” for some young kids, and they quickly outsmarted him / overturned his schtick.

(Actually I think it was “Pilgrims & Indians” — a Thanksgiving tableau)

The Joni scene playing Coyote isn't just the highlight of the film, it's best thing that's going to be in any film this year.

Watched this last night and don't have anything really original to add. But, fwiw: I loved it, basically, especially the gig at Lightfoot's and especially especially Joni (she nicks this, as she does The Last Waltz); also loved the bridge club and the gig at the reservation. I love all of the live stuff but probably the biggest revelation was Hattie Carrol - especially Ronson's incongruous gurning and soloing. Dylan's teeth give me the heebie-jeebies, as does his driving. I've always been pretty anti-Baez, finding her out of her depth, and vaguely feeling that Dylan is taking the piss out of her but she's a strong presence in this (dancing like she's auditioning for the Doors movie, aside) and I could have watched more of her. The 'fakery' doesn't really work as fake or as real so I'd jettison it altogether.

I said on another thread that I'd avoided the Revue period for vague reasons - partly because I had something closer to the self-congratulatory vaudeville cokefest of the Last Waltz in mind. Not that coke wasn't the driving force behind this but it was much lower-key than I'd imagined. As others have said, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Ginsberg and Bob Neuwirth doesn't exactly scream wild night on the tiles. This only makes the presence of Ronson and his hair even more incongruous. The low-key nature of it makes me think of the Basement Tapes if anything.

yeah rewound the joni clip twice and then found it on youtube to share elsewhere. it's quite wonderful.

btw i LOVED this

Do you really think he drove the bus that often, aside from that clip?
― TS The Students vs. The Regents (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, June 17, 2019 10:23 AM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think he probably did, Bob's a pretty hands-on guy making cabinets and welding and whatnot, likes to sneak around doing "normal person" stuff

The greater my desire to rewatch this for the performances, the more disappointed I am that it will include pointless Spinal Tap business. Marty really shat the bed. I hate to imagine how much cool performance and candid footage was left on the floor in order to give "Tanner" time.

xp Have you ever listened to that recording of AJ Weberman on the phone w/Dylan, and Dylan keeps trying to politely hang up by saying he's got a bunch of furniture to build?

that is the best

my favorite part of that tape:

AJ: Comin’ from somebody who wrote, that writes songs like you write, man.
BD: Hey, man, who writes better songs than I do. Name me somebody.

AJ: I can name you a hundred fuckin’ people.
BD:Oh come on. You can’t, you know you can’t.

AJ: Ah, let’s see. Creedence Clearwater.
BD: Oh bullshit.

AJ: Gordon Lightfoot ain’t bad.
BD: Yeah, he’s fine.

AJ: He writes good, he writes good songs. Let me see, there’s some cat, who uses a very, very, a lot of imagery just like ‘Tarantula’ — ah, Barbara Keefe.
BD: Uh.

AJ: Ah . . . Ken Lauber.
BD: Oh, he’s alright. Yeah, he’s very good.

AJ: Jack Elliot.
BD: Jack doesn’t write songs.

AJ: John Lennon.
BD: He’s improving.

AJ: George Harrison.
BD: Hmmmm … Sure.

AJ: Jim McGuinn.
BD: What????

AJ: Procol Harum, Keith Reid what’s his name.
BD: Yeah, well, they’re swell.

AJ: How ’bout Grace Slick? Too political?
BD:I don’t know, does she write stuff?

Bob otm re: all those ppl tbh

(maybe not about Creedence)

At least he's heard of Ken Lauber, which is more than I have.

https://rockasteria.blogspot.com/2014/08/ken-lauber-contemplation-view-1970-us.html

Perhaps of interest given ILM's collective obsession w John Wesley Harding:

I wrote, Contemplation (View), in my home up on Upper Byrdcliffe Mountain. In an unheated back room, a few dozen or so songs spilled out during the cold winter 1967. A subtle friendship began with Bob Dylan, who was also lived up on Byrdcliffe and was a neighbour. Bob was gracious enough, as often he is with other musicians, to invite me over to his home one day to listen to a test pressing of his new album, "Nashville Skyline." I loved it almost immediately We listened to all the tracks in silence. After, he asked me what I thought of it and I replied instantly, without thinking. "I like the spirit of it." Days later, I played him some of my new songs and he said I should go down to Nashville and record down there with some of the same musicians that played on "Nashville Skyline" and before that on the "John Wesley Harding," album. He spoke with authority and enthusiasm about how the Nashville musicians picked things up quickly and how their respect for lyrics, allowed the personality of the song to emerge clearly.

Good timing cannot be denied. At the same time, a friend, who liked my songs, introduced me to the head of the newly formed American record company, Polydor Records. I played him the new songs I had written and told him I wanted to record in Nashville. He liked the songs and the concept of recording them in Nashville and offered record contract. The record was recorded and mixed, at Wayne Moss's eight track garage studio, Cinderella Sound, in Madison Tennessee, with Gene Echelberger and Eliot Mazur as engineer and producer. Gene built Cinderella Sound with and for, the highly regarded and super talented guitarist and bass player supreme, Wayne Moss. The space was formerly a two car garage behind his Aunt Lucy's house. The line up of musicians was the following: the great Kenny Butrey on drums. The man of all instruments, Charlie McCoy on blues harp, bass and organ, the brilliantly melodic Weldon Myric. on pedal steel; a strong lead guitar soloist, Mac Gaydon, on electric guitar and the versatile and easy going Pete Wade on all the acoustic guitars.

dude's voice is terrible tho tbh

Oh right, he was his neighbour, no wonder he'd heard of him!

Weberman really pioneered the art of "negging."

Hi. You'll need to forgive me for not reading through the whole of this thread but I have a question which I can't currently find a better place for.

Having watched this film, I am now obsessed with Hurricane and Isis, but am not sure where to go next with Dylan. I know the LPs 'Bob Dylan' and H61R, and a bit of Blood on the tracks, which I have, despite repeated efforts, never taken to. With Hurricane and Isis, I love their relentless structure as well as their lyrical complexity and detail. I also love Hurricane's clear-eyed political engagement and Isis's lengthy, personal and expansive surrealism.

If you have any recommendations for me, do please let me know.

Yeah, I kinda had the same response, and I've mostly just fallen in love with the entirety of 'Desire' (though Joey is shit). Best track: Black Diamond Bay, which unfortunately he doesn't seem to have played live. On the other hand, it's used in James Benning's '11 x 14' to great effect. But I honestly can't really find anything that scratches the same itch. In my case, I think a lot of it has to do with the violin, though.

With Hurricane and Isis, I love their relentless structure as well as their lyrical complexity and detail. I also love Hurricane's clear-eyed political engagement and Isis's lengthy, personal and expansive surrealism.

I mean, those qualities are present in much of Dylan’s work(!) I suggest Hard Rain, Street Legal, Planet Waves, Greatest Hits Vol. 2...

C’mon Street Legal is terrible

It's not terrible. I hear it as an amiable self-parody – mostly amiable, at any rate ("Baby Stop Crying" and "Is Your Love in Vain?" are not amiable). But it should be album #10 or #11 you stream/purchase.

We’ve done this before (lol)

though Joey is shit
Joey is good

Honestly a person could get Bootleg Series Vol. 1-3, plus the “Royal Albert Hall” bootleg, and have essential Dylan coverage even if they never go further.

I like Joey but recently learned that Abandoned Love was dropped from Desire for Joey and obv that's five times better

Desire with Abandoned Love in place of Joey would contend for greatest Dylan.

If it's the relentless structure and lyrical complexity and detail that grab you, maybe give Highway 61 Revisited a shot. It's got lots of those songs with many verses, and rocks a little harder than the other masterpieces of its era imo. Also search "Ballad of a Thin Man" and "It's Alright Ma" from Before the Flood, and "Changing of the Guard" from Street Legal.

I like Joey but recently learned that Abandoned Love was dropped from Desire for Joey and obv that's five times better

I love Joey, but “Let me feel your love one more time, before I abandon it” is on the shortlist of Dylan’s greatest kiss off lines.

Amazing. Thank you all.

I know Highway 61 Revisited, and am totally with it. I'll check the other recommendations.

Just to check, are Hurricane and Isis anomalous in terms of Dylan's songwriting, or the way they are performed on record?

They arent really anamolous, apart from the violin which is def an outlier

If Highway 61 clicks then you're ready for Blonde on Blonde and Bringing it all Back Home too.

Most his songs (after the early days) aren’t as “topical / issue-oriented” as Hurricane.

Its a style he deploys intermittently throughout his discography. George Jackson might be the closest analog.

Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll, Masters of War

Some of the gospel period stuff, altho that often isnt v specific

Honestly a person could get Bootleg Series Vol. 1-3, plus the “Royal Albert Hall” bootleg, and have essential Dylan coverage even if they never go further.

So otm. I love Dylan and I’m positive I listen to these more than anything.

They arent really anamolous, apart from the violin which is def an outlier

I think there’s also some violin on Love and Theft, which you also might want to check out if you like the classic surrealist phase albums. The imagery is not quite as wild though there is a similarity of lyrical density.

after Trouble No More I really have a hard time wanting to listen to the gospel records ever again

b/c the versions are so much better? I haven't heard it so I'm curious about that statement

yeah it's so hard and frenzied

The live versions of Gotta Serve Somebody are so much grimier and funkier

Fred Tackett is absolutely ham for Jesus on the six string

the Trouble No More set definitely rendered those records kinda pointless

still going back to it more than anything else in the bootleg series

“Martin Scorsese Hasn’t Spoken to Bob Dylan in Twenty Years“

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/martin-scorsese-bob-dylan-922912/

I'm assuming it's more like Bob Dylan hasn't spoken to Martin Scorsese in 20 years.

I’m a bit puzzled then by the interviews with Dylan in the movie. Was Scorsese not there for those?

Apparently not!

I know that dylan’s archivist/manager interviewed bob for no direction home. That might be the case for the rolling thunder doc as well.

What he says is sort of hokey, and I hate crying in documentaries--Ginsberg stops just short--but one of the most moving things I can think of in any music documentary is his first appearance in No Direction Home, where he describes hearing "Hard Rain" for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84bNaA-BV4Q

This may be the greatest thread that I have never seen before.
For anyone curious about the original Renaldo and Clara, here's a pretty good detailed (but not too lengthy)description:
https://thefreelancementalists.blogspot.com/2012/02/renaldo-and-clara-can-this-marriage-be.html
Some of the best bits in I'm Not There were inspired by R and C, esp. David Cross as Ginsberg and omg Cate Blanchett---BD said she should have played him in Masked and Anonymous at least)

Added some more from 2015, about "Hurricane," the way its writing etc. came across in the 70s and later, also how it comes across in R and C, and the amazing scene, if you can call it that, in which black citizens on the street get into a conversation about Ruben Carter, people who don't necessarily know each other, but they hear and respond. Reminds me a bit of the interviews after the concert in Don't Look Back, kids overhearing other kids being interviewed re Mr. D. (Also tried to improve the look of the whole thing as much as possible w that ancient template.)