The Police: Classic or Dud, Search and Destroy

What is up with "Be My Girl- Sally?"

Why is there a minute long spoken word piece put directly in the middle of the song?

On the first album now. And this song does suck.

That has to be one of the most wretched songs ever written. It literally manages to be bad in almost every possible way! Even the bass line is crap.

Probably 50% humor, 50% how-the-hell-are-we-going-to-fill-this-album-out. Hey, they played it live, so...

I have the box set, by the way. Disc 1 and 2 are great, disc 3 starts to tail off but has its moments, and most of disc 4 is pretty patchy -- it really sounds bloated by comparison with the best stuff from the first two discs. Personal favorites are probably "Next to You", So Lonely", "Walking on the Moon", and "Spirits in the Material World"; low points are the aforementioned "Born in the 50's", "Walking in Your Footsteps", and "Tea in the Sahara".

I also like the first disc of the 2-CD live set; it's a bit cornball at times, but captures the energy of their early live sets. The second disc, a later concert, again sounds ponderous by comparison. I picked this set up, together with the box, from Columbia House for something like $25 for all six discs. Not bad!

Wuz funny to a 15-year old Tad. Was years before I'd heard Roxy's "In Every Home a Heartache" and Zappa's "Miss Pinky." There's probably an interesting sociology/pop-culture thesis in those Seventies songs about blow-up sex dolls.

SEARCH: "Driven to Tears," "Can't Stand Losing," "Darkness," "Burn for You," "Does Everyone Stare?", "No Time This Time," "Dead End Job," "Spirits in the Material World."

DESTROY: "Mother," "Born in the Fifties, "Behind My Camel," "Tea in the Sahara."

My Unfadeable Police Mix:
Voices Inside My Head
Bring on the Night
Spirits In the Material World
Driven to Tears
When the World is Running Down
Shadows in the Rain
Darkness
Deathwish

and come to think of it, unless I'm feeling really nostalgic I won't rock Outlandous or Synchronicity. even typing the titles feels tedius.

Search: Lots of stuff people have already mentioned, also *Omega Man* (a pop '21st Century Schizoid Man'?), Bring On The Night, Secret Journey, Hungry For You (check out the 'Love Supreme' bassline), Deathwish (reggae raga rock!), Truth Hits Everybody, Fall Out (their Stooges song I guess), Miss Gradenko (Talking Heads meets Robert Fripp?) and most of all **Mother**, which I have only recently come to LOVE.

Most of the album tracks are worth hearing/having. With the exception of some of "Synchronicity".

Hidden gems : "Peanuts" (rather obviously about Mick Jagger), "On Any Other Day", "Behind My Camel", "Too Much Information".

Spirits In The Material World and Invisible Sun are classic too.

No, we're mad at Sting because the Police used to be so "BAD-ASS", considering how fucking indisputably CRAP he is now.

Don't tell me how, why, when and what I'm mad at, godfuckingdammitalltohell!

For all that, the Police were classic!

Great Stewart Copeland interview here, wherein he admits that much of his awesome ride bell playing was overdubbed. Haha!

That ain't nothin' new. Copeland was never afraid to use studio technology to build drum tracks. "Every Breath You Take" was half live, half programmed - the kick & snare were Linn Drum, with Copeland overdubbing the high-hat & cymbals seperately.

auto mash-up !

I thought that song was great when I was about 11, even though I had no idea what he was going on about. By the time I was old enough to realize how silly it was my fondness for it was firmly entrenched. Totally stupid, but not a bad hook. As fake as fake-punk got.

Because it's a hopelessly pretentious sack of tepid, runny DUNG wherein Sting grabs an unsuspecting Paul Bowles novel by the sensitive bits, pours syrup all over it and then proceeds to bugger it inconsiderably, whilst coming up with some of the worst couplets of his already pock-marked career. It's AWFUL!

Very interesting.

Then after performing the works of Elizabethan lute master John Dowland for US TV last weekend he was asked about the rumours.

I'm listening to "Bring On The Night" right now and I'm kinda freaking out about it.

I also just listened to "Born In The 50's." My God.

"My mother cried
When president Kennedy died
She said it was the communists
But I knew better"

AGHHHHHHH!

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Floridian_20/PoliceSynch.jpg

Just about the best mother fucking thing from 1983. Beware. I don't care if John D. jumps on my ass. I really don't care. I'll willingly take a beating for this record.

There's a little black spot on the sun today.

something i remember: sitting in 8th grade art class and telling john crichton (who wasn't a particular friend of mine, just the kid sitting next to me) that synchronicity was coming out the next day. he looked at me and said "so what?" i said something like the police were the best band in the world and he just kind of shook his head.

in retrospect i think it's the least of the police, but that's a relative measure and i'll defend most of it on one ground or another.

(but it's not the best thing from '83, even if i thought so then)

KING OF PAIN

Listen to the fucking BASS on that!

"Synchronicity I" is pretty underrated.. and I still love "Oh My God" and "Tea In The Sahara."

and then there's 'mother'

yup..

"Mother" adds character. Police albums aren't complete without at least 1 huge WTF moment.

And I like that "Mother" is in 7/8.

many miles away
there's a shadow on the door
of a cottage on the shore
of a dark
scottish lake
many miles away

oh scottish monster please listen
don't devour me

I WILL LISTEN HARD TO YOUR TUITION

ska horseshit is horseshit

I know they get no respect these days but I still feel - walking on the moon - if it comes on in public. I love the double snare hit near the end and the subsequent hi hat solo of sorts

Cool Copeland and Summers bits more than make up for even the band's worst moments.

even sting's depths in to wretched irrelevance and this photo

http://https%3A//pbs.twimg.com/media/BNnKXTeCIAAohZo.jpg

cannot destroy how good the Police are

bah https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNnKXTeCIAAohZo.jpg

The horror

Sting in bringing the tantric lute jams SHOCKAH!

Let "Tantric lute jams" never again be spoken of on ilx

fuck tha Police

My favorite Sting and Police. No "Russians," sadly.

i absolutely love everything about the police except the words. sometimes I just want to pitch a tent in their sound.

when I get that urge I usually just listen to I Advance Masked

love that record, so joyfully underachieving

best Fripp solo ever on the title track, imo

The guitar solo on Mother is almost note-for-note an echo of Fripps guitar solo on Enos Golden Hours.

/ darkness / is good! Double tracked hi-hats in stereo

i absolutely love everything about the police except the words. sometimes I just want to pitch a tent in their sound.

indeed. their 4-disc boxset is great from start to finish, plus its great to get to hear their progression from one year to the next. there's almost something Beatles-like there, the way they evolved so quickly over only 6 or 7 years. even the minor songs have awesome moments on them - that neat little guitar lick on "Contact" during the chorus, for example.

i absolutely love everything about the police except the wordsi

...and even when the words finally fucking stop they go so hard on the dey-yo-yo-yos

been hitting 'shadows in the rain' a lot lately, lyrics are actually okay on that

don't listen to zenyatta much but voices / shadows / camel / stopping are all gold

I see your yoga lute and raise you one chessboard.

http://imgur.com/a/JSmQa

http://imgur.com/a/JSmQa

just the way copeland hits a snare. why does a simple backbeat from him make me jump around so bad? (NB i have read several articles explaining why but there is still a mystery at the core of it IMO)

XP oh hell no

Is there a Stink / Police song that uses a chess metaphor? I'm sure there is but I can't remember

Jon, totally agree. Tight and tasty

I read that he had his snare head cranked so tight they had to beef it up with tons of fx, 1980s or no.

Yes that's part of it, he tightened them til they were on the verge of failure

"The guitar solo on Mother is almost note-for-note an echo of Fripps guitar solo on Enos Golden Hours."

yeah it's a complete lift of it. I love that.

I Advance Masked is really good, better than Bewitched certainly.

I don't have a problem with 99% of the Police's lyrics.

what the hell is going on with those pictures, they look like the cover of a CD-ROM circa 1996

Man, those pix with the lute etc are f-ing hilarious! Stinks' pretence and lack of reality checks is nearly unparalleled.

blame david lynch imo

Not all the lyrics are terrible, but even when they are the rhythms and soundscapes mostly make up for it. (And don't forget Sting's playing as a key part of the sound -- don't throw the bass out with the bathos.)

cheery finns, huge lutes, upturned tables:
https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/Kuva_arkisto/Nordmaling2001/100-0086_IMG.JPG

Sting's Police lyrics are a strange contrast of hyper pretentious and totally stupid. I could have sworn when they reunited that they retroactively claimed the dumb rhymes were on purpose, but I have my doubts.

That said, musicianship, including Sting, is so across-the-board great. I love how even at their most indulgent and overproduced and overdubbed, they rarely sound like more than three guys in a room. Even though there are all sorts of little nuances and stuff added and tweaked and embellished.

Like, songs with three or four guitar parts that are so subtle and well arranged that it sounds almost just like one guitar. Until you pay close attention.

To be clear, I adore stings voice and the way he sings his lyrics. I just hate the words sometimes.

An older friend, a jazz guy I used to play guitar with, had seen the police live during 83 or so and said something I found memorable: "they were making an awful lot of music for three guys"

I often think of that comment when listening to Rush too

there has always been this weird relationship between Rush and the Police, at least as far as fan overlap, and in Rush's case, actively taking influence from the Police.

I still have a bit of PTSD with Sting. I never really loved his voice, but once I started paying attention to his lyrics, I got more and more annoyed, to the point I couldn't listen to them. However, Copeland is in my top 3 drummers of all time. I can listen to just his isolated tracks all day. And it's incredibly fun to play almost any Police song as a musician. I should probably work on resolving this, because deep down, I know there were great.

My guitar teacher pinpoints Andy Summers genius at recognizing the way his sus and seventh chords and other weird ideas work so well with chorus and echo, the way the effects sort of imply or fill out these broken chords in cool ways.

otm, the effects are baked into the very musical structure, such a painter

there has always been this weird relationship between Rush and the Police, at least as far as fan overlap, and in Rush's case, actively taking influence from the Police.

yea there's some active overlap with prog there - "Synchronicity II" being the most obvious example. I think all three had a background in it at some point.

last time I heard Yes's Big Generator it struck me how many of the songs sounded like what the Police might've had they stuck around to 1987.

Hell, even "Owner of a Lonely Heart" owes a huge debt to the Police.

and everything produced by Rupert Hine

I think all three had a background in it at some point.

Andy: Guitarist w/Eric Burdon & The Animals in their last gasp, proto-prog period
Stewart: Drummer for Curved Air
Sting: Fusion dude

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lYi1fBalGeg/TSYXc8dbz_I/AAAAAAAAFm0/K92djhEReiw/s1600/sc00008742.jpg

andy was also in soft machine but that was firmly during their psych phase

plus they had that proto-Police band Strontium 90, with the 4th member being Mike Howlett of Gong

Andy was in Soft Machine.

Ha, how did I miss that magazine cover?

and everything produced by Rupert Hine

And Men At Work, how capitalized on the relatively long wait between Police records.

Read a good interview with Stewart recently that for all the band's supposed dabbling, he'd only call maybe three Police songs at all reggae derived.

bring on the night
beds too big
one world
?

I dunno, there's a lot of reggae/dub influence all over the first three albums, less on the 4th and 5th. It's as much spatial as specifically structural, but it's definitely there.

walking on the moon?

So Lonely?

A singles compilation is all one really needs from this band - they weren't really a band that had a wealth of killer deep cuts.

Feel kind of cheated that sting hasn't given us an album of lute reggae yet

Yeah, maybe a singles comp and then another disc with Gradenko, Darkness and other faves from this thread

I like Synchronicity but it might be just because I remember my parents playing it when I was a kid

My fave Police review might be Xgau on that album, since he calls out the lyrics of Mother and Gradenko as high points.

Yeah, I don't exactly what Copeland was getting at re: reggae. He talks about it here around 3 minutes in:

http://www.thetrapset.net/bns-stewart-copeland-answers-listener-questions/

Basically something like "there are only one or two Police songs that are reggae as they might be played by Jamaicans." He calls Bed's Too Big a shuffle with a reggae-ish guitar, for example. I guess I understand, that minus the formal structure of reggae it's not reggae, just reggae-ish.

sting has taken up the lute
he always was a stupid coot
he plucks a dowland air while his wife plays flute
you've gotta humanise yourself

Sometimes the less I know about a musician's personal life the easier it is to enjoy their music

right thread this time!

as someone who hates the Police, I give Stewart credit for being accurate about the reggae elements in their material (ie "only a couple songs" bearing any real similarity to reggae)

he's smart/literate enough to know that just moving the downbeat in the drum part around or having a strummed guitar chord on the offbeat doesn't make your song reggae

Trump is such an asshole he thinks becoming president betters him, when in fact him becoming president lessens the office.

not you too

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/videos/flashback-the-police-pass-torch-to-u2-20130924

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGpWksgEI8

How embarrassing for all involved

At least Edge didn't try to play.

Preach it, Edge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ELpJqa4PaY

Page: "gosh not sure if I can figure out how to play those two notes or not. Whoof"

Stink n' Boner

The video is cringeworthy as hell, but it's worth it perhaps to see Paul glance and smirk at Gordon at one point when they're sharing the mic, but G doesn't return the look, not willing to foresake the gravitas of the moment.

And in the almost as difficult to watch Jimmy / David interaction, I wonder if there were any latent English / Irish musings in their heads

His worst songs.

https://humanizingthevacuum.wordpress.com/2017/07/10/i-dont-subscribe-to-this-point-of-view-the-worst-of-sting-and-the-police/

v glad i saw them live before Synchronicity

"Synchronicity I"???????

'Synchronicity I' is excellent, as is the brilliantly unhinged 'Mother', which is one of my many personal highlights on that LP.

'Saint Augustine in Hell' has the hilarious part about music critics, too.

I actually like synchronicity a lot as a whole except for brontosaurus/lesson for us

I used to love "Mother," now I wish Sting had sung it. Or, better, Andy's mom.

I actually like synchronicity a lot as a whole except for brontosaurus/lesson for us

― or at night (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, July 12, 2017 12:42 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha, yes!!

Let's rank their albums.

I would do something like

1. Reggatta
2. Ghost
3. Zenyatta
4. Synchronicity
5. Outlandos

damn, they're all good!!

Not canon, but disc 1 of the live album is pretty great too.

yea and the first few tracks of disc 2 are pretty decent too

always bothered me how the volume suddenly increases a 30 seconds or so into the first disc. such an obvious glitch, I don't get how it wasn't fixed

Their logic ties me up and rapes me!

I'd forgotten about 'Let Your Soul Be Your Pilot' which is indeed garbage.

'If I Ever Lose My Faith In You' is one of his best ever songs, though, as is 'Synchronicity II' ...

I wish the Toby Keith version of "I'm So Happy.." had charted.

Ok, rating Don’t Stand so Close to Me ‘86 over the original is bananas!

Seconded. That ‘86 version destroys the chorus and in general just has all the life drained out of it. To this day I feel shortchanged for its inclusion on that year’s singles compilation.

"Every Breath You Take" make my friend hilariously angry, because he can't hear it without hearing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=837k74c4rHQ

A+

where do the Shaggy singles fit in here

it wasn't me

Ok, rating Don’t Stand so Close to Me ‘86 over the original is bananas!

― Darin, Wednesday, May 22, 2019 5:11 AM (eight hours ago)Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seconded. That ‘86 version destroys the chorus and in general just has all the life drained out of it. To this day I feel shortchanged for its inclusion on that year’s singles compilation.

― dorsalstop, Wednesday, May 22, 2019 8:57 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thirded. One of the most pointless recordings Sting has been involved in, and this is Sting we're talking about.

Didn't realize "Next To You" wasn't a single! Manifestly belongs in the classic pile.

It's pointless, yeah. It needn't exist. Yet the fadeout in the original allows the tension to leak out of the song. I prefer how sinister Sting sounds in the original.

you guys know there's an album of re-recorded Sting songs out in two days right

As Tom Ewing wrote, "It’s not that 'Don’t Stand' needs to resolve its story – in fact it works better for not doing so – but it doesn’t need to hang around either."

aww, i've always loved 'spirits in the material world'. had no idea what it was about obv and if i tried to unpick it now i would probably find it totally ludicrous (hey it's sting), but i suppose i was a sucker for quasi-mystical nonsense in my early teens (too much time spent watching 'monkey' instead of doing my homework); 'secret journey' off the same album tickled the same part of my brain. that sax blort at the start of the song sort of fools you into thinking it's a sort of odd ska that they're going for but it's some weird eastern european folk fusion thing isn't it? the synth standing in for an accordian, and then that zithery balalaika thing on the third verse. the drums are fantastic (hey it's stewart) - the crispness of the snare when it comes in is soo good! solid 7.5/10. still sad that sting isn't actually signng about the reykjavik of failure though.

'Spirits in the Material World' is a better song than 'Invisible Sun', IMO, the energy level of the former is one of many points in its favour over the trudge of the latter.

As Tom Ewing wrote, "It’s not that 'Don’t Stand' needs to resolve its story – in fact it works better for not doing so – but it doesn’t need to hang around either."

― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, May 22, 2019 5:05 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh I had another possible misheard lyric in ‘Spirits’. Does Sting really say ‘grow testes and survive’? Actually nervous about googling that one

I’ll be honest with you I usually don’t check what thread I’m posting in

there is only one thread, i'm on the same page. literally

been on an andy summers kick of late, had never actually heard his epic solo on this one before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_aAsg2UTZo

(the guitar solo is from 2:00 to 6:30)

(it sounds nothing like the police btw)

the audio on this is killing me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJyEr-jWVv4

sounds like some of the guitar parts from 'voices' - anyone know if it's available somewhere?

Is it the intro music on the Synchronicity tour?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyp7au1vOrM

oh, definitely related to that, thanks! the tempo is a bit quicker though and the guitar parts are a bit more abstract. drum machine sounds like the same one that plays at the start of 'duchess' by genesis - CR-78?

Thinking about picking up Around the World. Picture quality aside (it does look great now that it's fully-restored from the negative) how's the film itself? Is it a good doc or at least a good concert compilation of sorts?

The band originally broke up in . . . 1984? When Sting decided he would be better off going it alone, a la Paul Weller. In retrospect, it seems like an inevitability, but he pulled the plug on the band when they were still fairly well peaking.

Like a friend of mine said a while back, when we were listening to Dream of the Blue Turtles: "You broke up the Police for this? Fuck you."

So, your friend didn't consider Sting turtley enough for the Blue Turtle Club?

Although, to be fair, you could say he did a favour to the legacy of the Police by breaking them up when he realized his muse was leading him in that direction.

Credit where credit's due, he put together an extraordinary group of musicians for that record. But his "muse" seemed to be leading him much more astray than was Weller's. I suppose the warning signs were there with Synchronicity, which nevertheless still showed flashes of brilliance; I'd put "Synchronicity II" among their best songs, as well as among the best songs of the 80s.

Anyway, if we are going to do S/D, I'd search "Secret Journey." Apart from the obvious "Mother," I don't think the world would miss "Born in the 50s."

I thought the plan was they'd get back together after the Blue Turtles record. At least that is what Stew assumed was going to happen.

If you haven't heard it yet the Bring on the Night live set is really great. The band gets to flex a lot more. All of the medley tracks are awesome. Interesting live record too, it's almost as if he was intentionally shying away from his hits, trying to prove he really did have a deep catalogue.

Copeland's record live record with Gizmodrome is really good too. The tightness reminds me of 80's King Crimson. Also you get to hear a lot of Police cuts that never got played live.

Yeah, I think I rented the VHS when that came out. I also saw the Blue Turtles tour when it came to Red Rocks. Sadly, it was the closest I ever came to seeing the Police.

I'll check out the Copeland record. Interesting comparison to King Crimson.

For me, there's been a good EP's worth of solo Sting cuts that could've been pretty good Police songs, and most of them are on Blue Turtles: "If You Love Somebody Set Them Free," "Love Is the Seventh Wave," and "Fortress Around Your Heart." But it takes more than three cuts to make a good album, and "Russians" is as well-meaning as it is colossally stupid.

The Bring On the Night doco offers some insight to the astonishing level of self-belief from which Sting was operating in those times.

y'all are mad

his best imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT64QnhZD4o

That would be the 4th track on my "best of Sting (i.e. songs he should've made with the Police)" EP.

It's a reasonable position, but you regard "best solo Sting" songs as "most-Police-like Sting"? Has he done any solo songs you like where you think "the Police couldn't have done this"?

It's a reasonable position, but you regard "best solo Sting" songs as "most-Police-like Sting"? Has he done any solo songs you like where you think "the Police couldn't have done this"?

Yes - "Hung My Head," but I prefer Johnny Cash's version.

It’s an interesting thought experiment but I think the most likely scenario had they continued into the late 80s is they would’ve sounded like Big Generator-era Yes

"I ALSO eat at Chez Nous"

It’s an interesting thought experiment but I think the most likely scenario had they continued into the late 80s is they would’ve sounded like Big Generator-era Yes

― frogbs, Sunday, May 22, 2022 12:57 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Theory makes sense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jSl-Lr4VuY

Exhibit B:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlesUq8U7KM

(IIRC this was first released in 2000 on the 5.1 DTS re-issue of Every Breath You Take: The Classics)

https://www.discogs.com/release/8897614-The-Police-Every-Breath-You-Take-The-Classics

But yeah, I agree, they wouldn't have gotten better if they made more albums. The most optimistic view I have is that we would've gotten a few more classic singles, but Sting was irrevocably heading in the wrong direction.

I'm fond of this bitter, beautiful denunciation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8fgY3AUNQM

As soon as I played that YouTube clip, my partner thought I had fired up a Netflix show, hah.

Also, Sting's "You Will Be My Ain True Love" for the movie Cold Mountain can be surprisingly good. It only hit me when I saw Alison Krauss & Union Station perform a haunting a cappella version to kick off an encore. It was like "WOW, how did I miss that?" but when I went back to the soundtrack, I was disappointed that it was produced and arranged very differently, with only an occasional voice joining Krauss rather than the full, eerie harmonies of the concert rendition.

FWIW, both Sting and Elvis Costello of all people contributed good songs, and both of them were nominated for an Oscar - they lost to Annie Lennox, Howard Shore and Fran Walsh for Return of the King.

Wow, the '86 version of DDDD,DDDD is breathtakingly bad. I can remember at the time thinking "awesome, those Police singles with cool production" but I was about 15 and musically illiterate.

Who had Animal Logic reunion on their bingo card?
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/312707862_646660697057424_7241859831881752794_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WvKxxFpBL3wAX-ui31T&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AT_AWNuMn5wiqRFtA7XPC64n3yTstyZ6rNHCC5kn80noxA&oe=635B10BB

Hmph. Call me when Curved Air reunites.

Okay I meant that as a drive-by joek but some alert ilx0r will no doubt pipe up to say that Curved Air are still active (or, rather, active again, just without Copeland) and that their new album is I dunno a banger or something.

I got nothing, sorry

sending out an SOS

Apart from the obvious "Mother,"

mother has a somewhat dumb vocal line but you do get to hear Summers completely steal Fripp's guitar solo from Eno's Golden Hours and that saves it IMO

I’ll have what Stanley Clarke is having.

He carries all his weight in his right thumb.

does this mean Gizmodrome is dead?

Probably as dead as Oysterhead.

It's been 43 years and I can still not quite get over the coolness gap between Copeland's excellent music and his derpy persona.

There is a memoir* by Jacob Slichter (who is a completely different person) in which he says that no matter what he did, no matter how much of a cool rock star he tried to be, every photograph of him made him look like he's about to say "Hey guys, let's ride bikes!"

When I read that, and then read Copeland's memoir**, it provided useful clarity to my understanding of Copeland. He's made some of my favorite records but he is the type of guy who pretty much always looks like he's about to say "Hey guys, let's ride bikes!"

* = Yes, I will read any book by a drummer and almost any book by a musician.
** = See?

yeah that occurred to me while listening to the Gizmodrome live album. it's excellent but Stew's persona is really self-consciously goofy in a way that's pretty offputting. he can't quite pull off the self-deprecating rock star persona that he's going for. he can definitely be a funny dude though.

He also wears very short shorts.

So do I. And my drumming sucks.

he is the type of guy who pretty much always looks like he's about to say "Hey guys, let's ride bikes!"

https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/433266d/f1e6ab9f/Shutterstock_433266d.jpg

But wait! Long shorts!

I feel like I've written about this before (not this thread, apparently). In the "Certifiable" documentary from the reunion tour, there's a cringey scene at the Whisky where two things happen:

1. Questlove asks a question from the audience and it is pretty clear that Stewart has no idea who Questlove is. I don't think Sting does either, but that's not important right now.

2. Sting asks Andy if he knows "Message in a Bottle" and Andy obligingly says, "Uh, I dunno, what key is it in?" lulz. They start playing.

But here's the thing: Stewart starts calling out the chords, with inversions and naming the bass notes. And he doesn't fucking stop. Like they're pretty far along in the intro and Stewart (who someone unwisely provided with a live headset microphone) is still going like "C sharp minor with a B, A major seventh, B seventh..."

And everybody in the room is like DUDE, SHUT UP.

He wants everyone to know he's Not Just a Drummer.

Sting does tantric sex. The only inversion he needs is when Trudi fucks him up the ass.

With a vintage Fender Precision bass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbO1qC7EsVI

1. Questlove asks a question from the audience and it is pretty clear that Stewart has no idea who Questlove is. I don't think Sting does either, but that's not important right now.

Certifiable came out in 2007. . . the Roots didnt start playing Fallon until 2009, right? It's possible Stewart knew of the guy, but I don't know that the Roots were as huge back then (and Questlove didn't have the culture presence back then either)

Fair point, waterface. The exchange is kind of weird in context.

(Caveat: I'm going from memory here because the DVD is in a box somewhere - so is anything resembling a DVD player. What I found on YouTube has this bit edited out, quite sensibly.)

It was meant to be a press event, so people asking questions were instructed to say what publication they were affiliated with, like "Hi, I'm Joe Blow from Rolling Stone."

Questlove says, "I'm Questlove from the Roots, I don't have an affiliation."

Stewart says, "wait, you mean, like, you're just... a normal person?"

Questlove asks a softball question about their influences.

Sting says something like, "People used to say we sounded a bit like Bob Marley." Which is both a pandering answer and a kind of infuriating one.

It is true that the early Police freely borrowed from reggae (cough cough APPROPRIATION cough cough). But it is a stretch to say that they sounded like Bob Marley. Further, it seems unlikely that anyone but Sting and people who wanted to flatter Sting ever said that.

Was Sting name-checking a Black artist because a Black dude asked him about his influences? One can speculate. It's a very brief moment and, as I said, not one that deserves this much unpacking.

I remember that press conference being awkward and weird start to finish, like no one wanted to be there on stage except Stewart, who was so "on" I just assumed he was playing up his obnoxious/antagonistic role as a poke at ego rival Sting, who was himself, iirc, kind of cranky and poked and bickered back a lot.

Josh otm of course.

But thinking about that leads me to a further thought about this band that I have adored since childhood (but not without critique):

All three of them were prog-as-fuck weird jazzbos with major chopskis. They are all on record as saying they felt it was expedient to adopt a type of "punk" posture and style because that was where the market was at the time (77-79ish). Despite the fact that it wasn't where their truest hearts were.

To what extent was doing their New Wave inna reggae stylee (one-drop, skanky upstrokes, etc.) a marketing move? Did they actively love the Wailers, or was it a cynical calculation based on Miles Copeland studying a spreadsheet and consulting with his accountants and saying, "Okay, lads, you need to incorporate approximately 30% more Jamaican influence in order to hit the critical Ohioan adolescent demographic. But don't take it too far - if you go Full Tosh you lose their parents, and these kids need their allowance if they're going to buy your cassingles."

Excellent point. I wonder about this with a lot of recording artists, and not as negative criticism. There's a long history of talented artists who struggle for recognition and/or commercial success, mainly due to the fickle nature of the business, and suddenly get noticed when their work rides the moment. It would be misguided and overly simplistic to say they found success by jumping on a trend - it probably needs to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis, but I get the impression they just needed their talents to be compatible with a popular trend, not necessarily a type of music they want to dedicate their life to but it's what gets them through.

Elvis Costello has had a famously strange history with Sting and the Police - in the beginning he openly trashed them in the press, but while he's made amends decades later, it's clear that he still dislikes their music even if he's mended things on a personal level. But like them, he's a pop artist who benefitted from punk as well - he struggled for a bit before breaking through when he found that his talents meshed extremely well with punk elements.

that's a good question. I've always wondered that myself. everything I've read about their early days paints Miles Copeland as calculating and savvy, it seemed like he was going to get them famous by any means possible. I love the story about how "Roxanne" was marketed as being "banned by the BBC" - because they just didn't like the song and wouldn't play it.

when I got really into them as a kid I remember reading "Bob Marley" a lot. I mean one of their early singles WAS a pretty straightforward ripoff of "No Woman No Cry" and if I know music writers I bet they latched pretty hard onto that.

Where did the reggae flavor of songs such as Walking On The Moon originate from?

“Well, that song came from a diabolical Christmas when we were freezing and starving. Stewart loaned Sting his Bob Marley records and I think what happened is that Sting kind of picked up on the convenience of the reggae bassline, so he could sing more and not have to play as much. Which is typical Sting – lazy motherfucker. So that’s what happened. And it worked.

“People would go, ‘Oh, you’re a reggae band.’ We weren’t a reggae band! I mean, of course, everybody loved Bob Marley, who was the greatest of all of them. But we had no pretensions to being a reggae band. It was just that the convenience of that bassline in the middle tempo was something we could do. It was lovely because it gave me space to put in those big chords like on Walking On The Moon.”

Bird, I urge you to try to find the "Spectacle" episode with Elvis and the various Policemen. He tactfully did separate interviews and separate performances so as not to clutter things with their interpersonal bullshit.

Elvis is quite clear on this point: they were playing around the same time in a lot of the same clubs and hauling gear up the same stairs. A young Declan got an autograph from a slightly older Andy. Etc.

Elvis and Andy do a Mingus song, "Weird Nightmares," together. Highly recommended for fans of both

A young Declan got an autograph from a slightly older Andy. Etc.

Elvis and Andy do a Mingus song, "Weird Nightmares," together. Highly recommended for fans of both

LOL, wow. I'll have to watch that episode. FWIW, most of the criticisms he had of the Police seemed to be directed at Sting (especially with the faux accent he used), but I don't recall a bad word directed at Summers or Copeland.

in regards to Stewart being obnoxious I have always wondered if he had a chip on his shoulder due to Sting getting so much of the attention. if you look at their songwriting credits its like 80% Sting, including every single one of their hits. but I don't think that tells the whole story. I think what was happening was Sting was bringing the melodies and lyrics - the "song", from a legal perspective, but Copeland and Summers were probably responsible for the whole Police "sound", including a lot of the particular chord structures and guitar riffs. everyone's noted that Sting's solo material doesn't sound like The Police - but Copeland's very much does. all the Klark Kent stuff sounds like lost Police tunes that Sting didn't want to do. his other 80's solo work has the same sort of chord progressions that they used. Sting's solo albums don't really have any of that. This probably didn't bother Summers much (who has always seemed pretty zen) but I bet it stuck in Stew's craw. If you read the things he's written about the band or watch that Super 8 documentary he made you can tell he sort of sees The Police as *his* band - like, he recognizes that Sting is the star, but he always points out how much he had to rework his tunes to fit the band, and how much he had to 'lead' Sting to get the sound he wanted. so yeah it doesn't surprise me that he would feel compelled to point out that he knows all the chords to "Message in a Bottle".

imagine that band with a different drummer

I think it’s Copeland adopting the kind of role usually found in the lead guitarist in Cliche Band Dynamics 101 - he concedes the role of frontman and lead singer to Sting but everything else about the band is up for grabs and Copeland will fight tooth and nail to define it

Ghost in the Machine and Synchronicity sometimes show Sting desperately trying to write the other guys out of his songs, and while Andy sometimes does get successfully sidelined (especially on Ghost) Stew always finds a way back in.

It's really got to irk Sting to no end that the things he hates about Stewart's playing - the energy, the chaos - are the things that often gave the band its spark. Sting has played with some of the greatest drummers of all time (Vinnie Colaiuta, Omar Hakim, Manu Katche, Keith Carlock), and while Dominic Miller can serve as a suitable Andy sub (and don't get me wrong, Andy is a genius), none of those drummers have ever provided the same spark.

Josh + waterface otm. An alternate-universe Police in which the drummer was, I dunno, Anton Fig or Omar Hakim or Manu Katche or Chester Thompson or Pete Thomas or whomsoever? That band would be perfectly competent but also a bit of a snoozefest. Those dudes know what they are doing but they would be liable to lay back in a way that Stewart never did (and never could).

The only other person who might have been able to fill that seat would be - hear me out - Jon Farriss. He doesn't have Stewart's manic disposition but he does have a little bit of Copeland's unpredictability. There is a sideways-ness to both of those gentlemen - the quick tom flurry in the middle of a bar instead of at the obvious transition points. Sudden doubling into 16th feel, or halving into cut time.

Chaos and spark really are good words for it.

I could imagine someone like Jon Farriss fitting in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrvbN5Hvnmg

Iirc J. Niimi's book about "Murmur" notes how much of an influence Stew was on Berry. But of course, Copeland has influenced every rock drummer in his wake.

I'm going to have to think about that. I guess "The One I Love" is played pretty urgently with some offbeat accents. The high snare on "End of the World."

By New Adventures, I think of Berry as more of a zen master than a frenetic chaos muppet. Copeland has always been a frenetic chaos muppet.

Bill Berry worked for Ian Copeland at the Paragon Agency in Macon, so his connection to the Police predates R.E.M.

yeah I can't imagine Reggatta or Zenyatta with a different drummer. they would've been totally nerfed. I've always considered Reggatta one of my favorite albums but in retrospect it sure as hell ain't the songwriting that I fell in love with. some of those things aren't even really proper songs - I mean what is "Deathwish" exactly?? I dunno but it still rules because of that click-clack-clackclackclack rhythm and Summers' hypnotic playing. had Sting taken the reigns on that it would be boring as hell.

right on cue this track came up on shuffle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIMitPazAgQ

good example of a Copeland solo track which easily could've been a Police tune. whereas nothing Sting's done would really fit in outside of the second half of Synchronicity. and yet he's the one who gets all the songwriting credits...wonder how many other bands had that sort of dynamic? Soul Coughing maybe? Doughty has all the songwriting credits but sure as hell couldn't produce that sound on his own.

The Band? Although that was also because Robertson hardly sang.

To what extent was doing their New Wave inna reggae stylee (one-drop, skanky upstrokes, etc.) a marketing move? Did they actively love the Wailers, or was it a cynical calculation based on Miles Copeland studying a spreadsheet and consulting with his accountants and saying, "Okay, lads, you need to incorporate approximately 30% more Jamaican influence in order to hit the critical Ohioan adolescent demographic. But don't take it too far - if you go Full Tosh you lose their parents, and these kids need their allowance if they're going to buy your cassingles."

I wonder if any of them saw the Wailers in London. those shows left a giant mark, and English musicians got their minds completely blown -- the musicianship of the Wailers was on a very very high level & everybody in the Police would absolutely have clocked that and seen, as so many did, the many ways that reggae practice might inform rock

Good point. Obv there was a lot of crosspollination (bee-related pun intended) going on at the time. Surely it is no coincidence that the Clash did "Police and Thieves" in 1977

Surely it is no coincidence that the Clash did "Police and Thieves" in 1977

Not to mention "White Man (In Hammersmith Palais)" which is a song about going to a reggae concert.

Hammersmith Police

The reggae in the Police's sound was a camouflage to slip prog back into punk; one of the few ways mainstream critics and listeners would accept that level of instrumental technique in the UK in 1978.

They also did "Safe European Home." Not reggae, but an extended complaint about a Jamaican vacation, and one of several Clash songs where it is difficult to determine how tongue-in-cheek they are being.

"We must've looked like a strange pair to the locals... I'm surprised we weren't filleted and served on a plate of chips" noted Jones. "We went down to the docks and I think we only survived because they mistook us for sailors."

I didn't realize that Millie Small's "My Boy Lollipop" went to number two in the UK (and the US!) in 1964. (It was produced by Chris Blackwell, who had been living in Jamaica since the '50s and of course was pretty prescient bringing Jamaican artists over to record.) "Israelites" went to number one in '69 (and top ten in the US?!), that's when I feel reggae got a real foothold. "Harder They Come" was '72, so was Paul Simon's "Mother and Child Reunion" (recorded in Jamaica with Jimmy Cliff's band). "Catch a Fire" was the next year. All the punks loved reggae, because they could approximate its simplicity and liked smoking pot.

Which is to say, I wonder if the Police borrowing from reggae was indeed just another way of pretending to be punk, because the Police were in no way on the vanguard in that regard. Though of course the *way* they integrated it was more novel than the more ham fisted "cod reggae" methods of their erstwhile peers

Yeah these days I would rather hear "Driven to Tears" over e.g. "Guns of Brixton."

I've actually come to love "Guns of Brixton" even more these past few years, especially after Steve McQueen's Small Axe.

could possibly be very dull but rick beato has just posted a looonnnggg interview with andy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V67Fq47U4ng

hope at least 80 minutes of that is a detailed breakdown of 'behind my camel'

Just visually scanned and it doesn't look like there's much guitar playing, hope there's some guitar talking, because I don't need to hear Police stories.

That was pretty nerdy, and if you've read Andy's book you kind of get some of that again, but it's still a pretty good interview. It's funny, when I read the comments they're always all "Thank you, Rick, for just letting the guy talk!" and ... yeah, that's always the key. Let them talk.

Also, damn does Andy Summers look pretty amazing for 80. Wild.

my music nerd kid hates beato so much because he always talks about his perfect-pitch kid, it cracks me up.

def forced xmas father-son viewing, ha. time to wreck another xmas.

I like annoying my son by always calling him Rick Beat-o. Enjoyed that interview though and yes - great to see Andy looking so good.

I was suprised to learn of all ANdy's adventures with Jim Belushi of all people - I read his autobiography One Train Later - also suprising he survived the drugs

I just saw this, and for a brief moment, I thought "shit, Zach Braff has aged badly." Then I realized it was Andy and thought "oh...well for 80 he looks great!"

(I'm not a Zach Braff fan nor do I follow his social media accounts, so just mistaking a face for him was unexpected.)

Braff HAS aged badly

LOL

Guitar player friend of mine watched and was annoyed that Andy's displayed "Walking on the Moon" chord is actually not the one he shapes live.

Beato gets the hat trick with Stewart, who as expected is very entertaining/obnoxious/full of stories:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIJkRhd1CTY

He may be my favorite musician who I also loathe. I mean, he is a good drummer and I have read his memoir but there are times I wish he would shut the fuck up, sorry, the end.

Huge Police fan and not so much of Sting's solo career, it wasn't until the reunion that I saw what Copeland was like (especially within the group), and I became much more forgiving of Sting's decision to leave.

coincidentally I'm listening to the Klark Kent 2xLP that recently came out, which unlike the old CD actually does have everything, including two tracks that I think hadn't been released yet. I had no idea "Don't Care" becoming a small hit was what led to A&M going all-in on The Police.

despite his insistence that he doesn't know how to write pop songs I actually like this stuff a lot, it's fun in a way The Police almost never were. in the interview he mentions how Sting's songs came nearly fully formed and I wonder if he's talking mostly about the last two albums because this stuff has the same sound as the first 3 Police LPs. it's too bad none of his other band projects ever really took off.

also I don't mind his personality but yeah it would be exhausting to spend too much time around him. even an hourlong interview feels like a lot. but he's still a great interview subject, seems willing to answer anything and reveal a lot of inside baseball stuff, also very forthcoming about the stuff he is and isn't good at

It's entertaining in small doses. When I saw or read those first couple of interviews, it was great, like they were having fun, but after a while it sunk in that he might be like that all the time, including the half-joking antagonizing that would probably grate after awhile.

It is kind of incredible, if he's remembering correctly/telling the truth, that so many of those Police songs are early if not first takes (on his part). I know it's kind of common practice for the drummer to finish first and then just kind of fuck off, but Copeland's parts are so cool and iconic, not least "...Magic," which is insane, if that is indeed the first and only take. Then again, Copeland has always conceded that some of his parts aren't necessarily playable as we hear it, since they were tooled around with in editing, or subject to overdubs and whatnot. Like in this interview how he says that some of the accents in "Wrapped Around Your Finger" were moved around.

Btw, something interesting that popped up in that interview was Stew saying he basically had to cheerlead Sting that first year to make Sting the Stingiest Sting he could be. Reminded me of the "Van Halen Rising" book, where DLR apparently had to work overtime during the lean years to foster EVH's ego, keep up his spirits.

I had no idea "Don't Care" becoming a small hit was what led to A&M going all-in on The Police

Well, Miles C. being well-connected may have played a role there too.

https://i.imgur.com/cifTebs.png

This was the one I had as a young lad, going for $2 on discogs, peak mid 80s graphic design

It's kind of astonishing that Sting's desire to re-record the hits took precedence over Stewart being injured and unable to drum, so they went with programmed drums for the reworked tracks. Hardly surprising it nosedived after two boring trainwrecks.

Every bone you break

Every tart you bake

Non-U.S. Greatest Hits does a much better job of collecting their singles than The Singles and it's all the better for it. (I think the only A-sides missing are "Bring on the Night," "Secret Journey," and their indie-label debut "Fall Out," but none of them were really hits. I think only "Secret Journey" charted anywhere, and even then it was #46 in the U.S. only.)

pay attention to the computer in the background of Copeland in that interview

http://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did%3Aplc%3A2enrykw6uzlomjrm6x6q3sr2/bafkreiehlxlfsalgtfwbzta437wz557w2qwefjfpns4pg3hb5qqvvty7sm@jpeg

Why the fuck would these 3 men want to conceive 16 offspring between them

pay attention to the computer in the background of Copeland in that interview

I posted a screenshot in the next post

Still not getting it

it’s Sting with his lute in a yoga pose or some such

lol

LMAO I looked it up and it was apparently a Vanity Fair shoot. So I guess Copeland decided to use it as one of his screen backgrounds as a joke?

A prelude to some tantric sex no doubt.

(xp)

he has the strongest unfunny dad persistence, but also can be pretty fucking lol, horrible as it is

lol obsessed much, stu? hilarious

I thought we were all well versed in this photo of shirtless sting playing the lute and Trudi doing some yoga pose in the background, alas, I was mistaken. It is the greatest portrait of all time.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNg8kFcCUAAdsBP%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3Dsmall

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNg8kFcCUAAdsBP%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3Dsmall

well fuck

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNg8kFcCUAAdsBP.jpg

it's time for the 20th anniv of my "if i had no lute" joke

that's a classic, perhaps only rivaled by the photo of a-rod kissing his own reflection

okay Stew making that his background is indeed very funny

Chances that he arranged that with the camera crew on purpose ? 75%?

You don't have to put on the red lute

got that Klark Kent compilation on again, you know what he's annoying but damn he writes really catchy songs. or maybe he just drums in a way that makes everything sound catchy. I mean "Too Kool to Kalypso" says it all - obnoxious vocals, obnoxious lyrics, obnoxious kazoo, but he's a force of nature on the kit and the song will be stuck in your head forever. also love that half this shit was clearly written for Sting

like c'mon he was wrong to reject this. imagine how good this would've been on Reggatta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIMitPazAgQ

If that picture of Sting with the Lute was Dimebag Darrell, it would be him with some crazy Dean lightning bolt guitar at a strip club with an exotic dancer on a riser next to a stripper pole in that pose.

like c'mon he was wrong to reject this. imagine how good this would've been on Reggatta.

📹

he can rewrite all the lyrics if he wants, the song itself such pure power pop

Exactly. Police don't do power pop.

On the first two albums they sorta did. Which I think is when these songs were written

Hmm, I still don't hear the power pop. Maybe "Born in the 50's", and if you squint sideways something like "Next to You" miiiiight fit, but you'd have to be pretty generous with what you consider power pop.

fuck, i’m like “fall out” is who-style powerpop, and i assumed it was on outlandos, but no.

i actually only knew it from an off-the-air recording i made from wlir in 82 of police playing live from like 79. last listened to in the 80s? that memorable? senility?

Last three tracks on Reggatta are power poppish