TOTO "africa" classic or dud

Recently, I saw the video for the first time in many years and I was relieved to discover that it still doesn't make any sense. So he's got this ripped page from a book, and he's looking for the source book while wearing some silly outback hate and the band plays on this obviously fake pile of books and a bunch of random African tribespeople show up and try to kill him and the librarian is supposed to be this "Hot For Teacher"-type cutie (I think?) and then the library burns along with the book he was looking for but never found.

WTF?

"Rosanna," "I'll Be Over You," "99" and "I Won't Hold You Back" also get a fair amount of airplay in my household.

that they manage to squeeze that whole 'Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus over the Serengeti' bit all into one line makes it an all-time classic.

Why hasn't anyone sampled it yet?

A little bit better than "Hold The Line" I think, a lot better than the "The Flame", a bit short of "Boys Of Summer", a long way off matching "Don't Stop Believing".

Never could understand the narrative of the video.

>'Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus over the Serengeti'

Horrible lyric, and they DON'T manage to make that clunky line scan at all!

And then a couple of years later they did the soundtrack to Dune, which was also great. Result! As they say.

(To my knowledge I've not heard the Ja Rule track but that's probably because every other Ja Rule track I've heard sent me to sleep.)

And Piter de Vries! (I always had this weird idea that "Stranger in Town" was kinda their song *about* Paul Atreides -- if you stretch it all a bit. "The Sean Youngs think he's Jesus...")

Sure you could always criticize a band that consists of studio musicians that prefer to demonstrate how well and faultless they play rather than writing good songs.
But, they did write good songs back then.

my band covers this song

i think an OB-Xa was used for the main saw wave page and a ARP synth for the bell.

One of the ten best songs ever.

It's true -- it's all about that chorus.

(although saying it's one of the ten best songs ever is a bit over the top).

It's not even the best song on the new Singstar Rock Ballads. And singing along to it really does hammer home just how ridiculous the lyrics in the verses are.

LIGHTNING IN A BOTTLE>

this song has done more for africa than bono ever will

I almost said classic, then I realized that the song in my head was Phil Collins' "Take Me Home". This is somewhere in between c and d.

ok, ill just go ahead and retract that. this thread shouldn't have to be tainted by bono.

(xpost)

wait, toto did the soundtrack to dune????

I still like "Roseanna" better.

Georgie porgy is one of the 10 best songs ever

saying you like "Roseanna" better is indefensible

nuh uh, it's got that sick jeff porcaro beat!

wait, toto did the soundtrack to dune????

Yeah, that is a bit of a mind-blower. Fuck was David Lynch thinking?

can't believe such serious discourse over the band that proclaimed "you supply the night, I'll supply the love"...the cover of the Hydra LP pretty much says it all...bleh...

I actually got temporarily excited when I recently found out Toto did the Dune score -- anticipating an extended Yamaha CS-80 workout. Sadly, it's entirely orchestrated but for a few demos they tacked on to a recent reissue of the record.

songwriting - classic
productio - 80's dud

i agree, pleasant plains, that that is indefensible. but tell me, are you familiar with the stray "turkey gobble" in "roseanna"? anyone know what i'm talking about? it fascinated me as a kid.

that rune lindbaek africa edit/rework thing is pretty hot.

that "africa" beat was wasted on jojo, jadakiss would've been perfect over that.

This song is amazing.

I know nothing about this turkey gobble, andrew.

turkey gobble: listen close during the quiet part before they bust out the big finale "meet you all the way!" bit. i think it appears after he quietly sings "now she's gone..."

i'm sure you have it handy. get back with us on that quicklike.

What the hell? Are you talking about the 3:34 mark? How did you even catch that?

PATRICK SWAYZE!!

xp
that's it! just latched onto it as a kid i guess.

HURRY BOY SHE'S WAITING THERE FOR YOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Um, that's a bgd singer going, "Ooh, oooh!!!"

or the guitarist rubbing the strings a bit--same tone

does anyone else mis-remember the lyrics as featuring the line

"I passed the rains down in Africa"

?

Wait a minute, you suspect that it's not really a TURKEY GOBBLING? Get out of here!

So classic I paid a quarter for the cassette only to discover that it's unlistenable dreck past "Africa" and "Rosanna." I think the clunky insertion of the word "Serengeti" is part of this song's charm.

I feel like if you were going to suddenly surprise people by blurting out part of a pop song from this period "FRIGHTENED BY THIS THING THAT I'VE BECOME!" would be a top-notch choice.

the key of dreams version w/ the vocoder is super-ace, too!!

Jeff Porcaro died in a bizarre gardening accident.

No he didn't. He dropped dead of a cocaine overdose while mowing his lawn.

Explain the cover-up for us, Naive Teen Idol.

Africa? classic.

Toto? Huge motherfucking dud.

Explain the cover-up for us, Naive Teen Idol.

-- Pleasant Plains

Hahahahah!

Me, I like "Africa" fine, but "Georgie Porgie" was their peak. (They shoulda made Cheryl Lynn their fulltime singer)

oh man i just remembered. as a kid i misheard the chorus as "there's nothing that a hundred men on mars could ever do." with my powerful 3rd-grade intellect, i figured they meant that what with mars' gravity being different and all, a man maybe could lift much greater weights on the surface of mars. and it would take over 100 men lifting great weights on the surface of mars to keep me away from this special lady down in africa! how romantic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fe11OlMiz8

"there's nothing that a hundred men on mars could ever do."

You mean that isn't the chorus?

the chorus is catchy but kinda generic

UTTERLY preposterous

It's been nearly three years since I last saw the video (upthread!) and I think I finally understand it ... Mr. Toto is trying to hunt down the warrior guy, but before he can positively identify him through piecing together the picture in the book, the warrior hunts *him* down (he carries exactly the same shield as the one in the book) and the evidence is burned. An African librarian observes everything and her glasses get rained on, which is supposed to be ironic or whatever.

STILL one of the best songs ever.

...nd her glasses get rained on...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2292/2081138864_5675a12dfb.jpg?v=0

That's right.

i also thought he sang "i guess the rain's down in africa." like out of resignation. well, i guess the rain's down in africa. so it goes.

Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but the lyrics to this song are not exactly hard to discern. And I, too, was a kid when it came out.

I stress the blames on the swastika?

This song can kiss my goddamn arse.

"Africa" is great, and I also thought "men on Mars" for a while. That's all.

HURRY BOY SHE'S WAITING THERE FOR YOU!

I wish TEH AMAZE RANDY would post the lyrics of Africa.

I hear the drums echoing tonight
But she hears only whispers of some quiet conversation
Shes coming in 12:30 flight
The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide me towards salvation
I stopped an old man along the way
Hoping to find some long forgotten words or ancient melodies
He turned to me as if to say, hurry boy, its waiting there for you

Chorus:
Its gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
Theres nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had

The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless longing for some solitary company
I know that I must do whats right
Sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti
I seek to cure whats deep inside, frightened of this thing that Ive become

Chorus

(instrumental break)

Hurry boy, shes waiting there for you

Its gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
Theres nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa, I bless the rains down in africa
I bless the rains down in Africa, I bless the rains down in africa
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had

>'Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus over the Serengeti'

Horrible lyric, and they DON'T manage to make that clunky line scan at all!

Absolutely true. Not only is the rhythm bad, but it's such a poor analogy. Comparing a mountain to another mountain! Still an amazing song though.

Best Singstar song ever.

I hear the drums echoing tonight

You are teh false amaze randy.

"Sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" = most unnecessary syllables crammed into one line evah

I always thought it was "rises like a leapress," as in female leopard (`cos, y'know, it being Africa and all).

Me too, Alex. But I also thought Paul Simon was saying he had a "night's agenda" in Kodachrome, instead of a Nikon camera - only heard it correctly a month or so ago.

The problem with that line is actually two *missing* syllables. "Serengeti" seems shoehorned in with overlong "Ser" and "get".

Classic for its lyrics. Dud for its music.

rong

The problem with that line is actually two *missing* syllables.

ahh man you try singing it

"Sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" = most unnecessary syllables crammed into one line evah

― who makes the nachos? (braveclub), Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:45 PM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

This makes it one of the best lines in any song ever. fact.

it always sounded awkward to me tbh

totally but awkwardly awesome

Yes Classic, along with the video.

great line for how little sense it makes; why is Kilimanjaro, which actually (I assume) rises above the Serengeti, being compared to Olympus, which does not?

this is pretty sweet, at least the Rain-emulation bits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjbpwlqp5Qw

wait hold on a sec... it's "I *BLESS* the rains..."?????????????

I heard it as "i FELT the rains" for oh, the past 27 years...

dude playing bass in video is pretty roflmao esp at 2:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPT_3PEjnsE

wait hold on a sec... it's "I *BLESS* the rains..."?????????????

I took me something like 20 years to find out the lyric isn't "I guess the rain's down in Africa".

The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless longing for some solitary company

I think this lyric is pretty weird too... How can company be "solitary"?

I don't like the forced spiritual uplift here.

i thought it was "i left the rains down in africa"

um, ok, call it 'rain down in Antartica' or 'Sigma 5' or whatever, christ

Cool cumbia remix http://generationbass.com/2009/05/14/toto-vs-sonido-del-principe/

How can company be "solitary"?

Baahahahahahahahaha. Excellent point.

solitary company = wanting another doggie to mate with?

Yeah, but solitary means you're alone. If you got company, neither of you is solitary.

Toto sucked but Africa is cool. it just needs to be remade by Devin Townsend

why is Kilimanjaro, which actually (I assume) rises above the Serengeti, being compared to Olympus, which does not?

Because it's a figurative, rather than a literal comparison: Kilimanjaro has such majesty that the author feels that it too could be a home to the gods. Still, it's a poorly constructed couplet. Because the Kilimajaro/Olympus analogy is nestled inside an emphatic statement of fact (Kilimanjaro overlooks the Serengeti), the casual listener can assume that the author's actual intent is to claim irrefutable similarities between Kilimanjaro and Olympus.

yeah, 'rises' is the wrong word to hang the comparison on really

also, this record is vile.

it's weird that no one has mentioned the harmonies on the word "africa" in the chorus, which as far as i can tell is the stroke of genius that lifts this song clear of all the other power ballad rabble it was contending with at the time, and the one thing that is really truly great about it.

man the drumming guy from stormy's choir video is one funky wite boy.

Classic, always. One of my v v favorite escapist singles from middle school.

"Solitary company" = a paradoxical desire. Wanting to be alone and in company at the same time. C'mon ppl you've felt this.

Tracer is OTM. I saw this done by some 20-man a cappela choir and it was fucking brilliant. This song is made for that shit.

Yeah it's cool how the backing harmony keeps insisting on that same half-tone interval while the lead does other things.

The lyrics are the worst kind of poesy. Too many syllables. They "sing' horribly. Perhaps the worst/best lines (it's hard to choose) are--

"I know I must do what's right / As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti"

That said, the hooks are kind of undeniable.

Classic. I really like the synth hooks.

there is some startrekman shit all over the wiki article if you so desire.

C

the key of dreams version w/ the vocoder is super-ace, too!!

― max, Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:24 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yep

there is some Idjut Boys-related remix of this as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bddd_xfZLYA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vcA6xwHJPY

^^ that one sleeve?

yes, thanks to you on the late Leonardo thread!

I would like to add to the catalog of mishearings on the chorus: I always thought it was "I *miss* the rains down in Africa"

that edit is actually an edit of this i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pSc2aNdWvM

Gonna take some time to do the things we never had

This line has always bothered me. Beyond that, probably Toto's best song, for whatever that's worth.

http://wayneandwax.com/?p=6273

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/totos-africa-by-ernest-hemingway

http://youtu.be/yjbpwlqp5Qw

i find it so weird that a guy (porcaro) capable of doing the amazing drum part on MJ's "rock with you" is in his own band and chooses to make music like "africa" (and this is a highlight in the Toto discography, of course).

?

Classic, of course!

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/toto-bassist-mike-porcaro-dead-at-59-20150315

I didn't know he had ALS. Rest in peace, sir.

this is one of the only songs that consistently shows up on my brother's playlists that aren't by young thug or travis scott

Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus?! I thought it was "rises like a lepress." Like, a female leopard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtHsqAjoXXY

In my head it was always "rises like a Memphis above the Serengeti," which makes no sense whatsoever.

I've always thought that verse specifically to be so convoluted and awkward in syntax that I could never figure out why they never gave it another pass. But hey, it was a hit, so what do I know. Still:

The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless, longing for some solitary company
I know that I must do what's right
As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti
I seek to cure what's deep inside, frightened of this thing that I've become

That's as head-scratcher wacky as "We Built This City," or, hmm:

And now it's all right, it's okay
And you may look the other way
We can try to understand
The New York Times' effect on man

yeah kilimamjaro rising like another *much smaller* mountain has always been lol to me

olympus is like half the size!

I thought it was riding like an empress but I like lepress much better

Olympus is, at least, a mountain that does in fact rise above its surrounding plain. As Kilimanjaro rises above its surrounding plain.

This is tangential because synth flute = classic.

Also a female leopard is a leopardess.

A lepress would be a female leper.

I always thought it was "rises like an empress". Olympus sucks. Song ruined.

Imagine a rising lepress, body parts corroded and raining down on the unfortunate residents of the Serengeti

Never really noticed the oxymoronic "solitary company."

Wish I could find a clip of Zoey Deschanel and Nelson Franklin singing "Africa" on New Girl as a campfire singalong from this season.

https://sizemattersscience.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/mountains.png

on top of everything that has been mentioned, I just realized that "above the Serengeti" is an ambiguous modifier

the phrasing to make it fit is hilarious

above the seeeeeerengetiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

sure as Kiliman-jair-oooooooo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwJWPz1K-UY

^hint, Affiance - starting the verse up an octave tends to diminish the impact of the chorus

I remember when were teens, we always thought the chorus was "I guess the rain's down in Africa", I guess because it sounds a lot more natural than "I bless the rains". But as pointed out, this song is hardly the Kilimanjaro of naturalistic lyrics...

The rain in African stays mainly in the plafrica

I hear "lepress" too. Right or wrong, I love the image of a sort of elegant female leper that it evokes.

I get to sing the chorus of this song in a cover band bc I'm the one who can sing high. It's fun to sing. I'd still like to know why it's "Gonna take some time to do the things we never HAD" the fuck?

lol

Waiting for your Love (the track just before Africa on the LP?) is such a jam

Awful

The "Despacito" connection http://pca.st/episode/0949df36-895c-4af5-8254-b3c252f37581?t=1294

The guy is missing that it's actually one of the most common pop progressions of all time, it's just that the third chord is what is usually the first chord. It's the Closing Time progression, aka When I Come Around progression.

Always been "lepress" for me too. Which works much better than Olympus

Africa is one of the few top hits of the 80's which I unashamedly love.

it reminds me of riding around in my parents' shitty Nova and I was always enamored with the synth sounds

Maybe if I'd heard it at my age now I would say dud but I heard first as a tiny person and now it's part of the fabric of life so classsssic

"Rises like a Memphis." Either one, you know: Egypt or Tennessee. One Memphis.

"Rosanna" > "Africa"

Well, yeah.

Xxxpost you mean Olympus?

were Toto the least photogenic band of all time?

https://30daysout.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/toto-the-early-days.jpg

Great song tho (although yes, "Rosanna" is better)

All but one of the guys in that photo looks like a Slightly Creepy Uncle from the 70s. Works at Radio Shack, or maybe is just a really good customer of Radio Shack. Lives in his parents' basement, but because it has a separate entrance he pretends it's kind of like an apartment. Drives an El Camino.

The exception is Blondo McWhitesuit (David Hungate?). He looks like an aspiring soap opera actor who is slightly too handsome to be a credible bartender.

Rises like a Lepus

Yet another 70s horror reference from toto

oh so that's the podcast i have been hearing about, i am like mostly unimpressed after actually listening to it, it verges on heinous at points

I like 'Africa', 'Hold the Line' and 'Rosanna', but on the whole I'm one of those people that's not really into the work of Toto as songwriters/a recording act in their own right, but I rate them supremely highly as musicians and love their work on other people's records.

Why is it that supergroups of "top flight professional studio musicians" never hire a top flight professional lyricist?

Because (since the advent of marginally competent singer-songwriters in the mid-1960s) "professional lyricists" mostly don't write memorable or even ?

Pete Brown = okay with some duds.

Robert Hunter = pretty good with some duds.

Bernie Taupin = mostly terrible with some gems.

Neil Peart = um. Huh?

When I think of lyricists my mind goes to W.S. Gilbert, Oscar Hammmerstein, Lorenz Hart, Ira Gershwin, Richard Adler. Gerry Goffin? From thenceforward I struggle to think of people who are doing just that and doing it well.

*or even good lyrics?

Yeah, I was half-joking, I just think it's funny how a band built around the concept of having people who are at the absolute top of their craft also completely sucks at one key aspect.

It's the easiest aspect to overlook, because for most listeners, who cares?

I think Paich is a professional songwriter? I don't really think these lyrics fail as pop lyrics.

OK lol saw the discussion upthread; clearly some people put more thought into these lyrics than I did.

Scansion on "Serengeti" is p forced too

It makes me happier than it should that pizza parlour covers dude seems to have launched a career off the back of it:

http://www.mikemasse.com/

being in a band where I have to sing harmony on Africa gives me special appreciation for what a terrible chewy mouthful the lyrics are.

there is nothing wrong with either the lyrics or the music of this song.

Sure as KilimanJARo RISes like a LIMPness above the SARANgetNEEEEE

No it's SEEHHHHR...engeDEEEEEEEEEE

"There's nothin that a hundred men OR MORE could ever doooooo" -- the "or more" is such a "Damnit, how do I make this lyric fit the melody?" thing.

there are plenty of things wrong with the lyrics or the music of the song and the inescapablility of it is reaching "sweet caroline" depths

i'd give my life for this song

yes i feel like the ubiquity has sharply increased in recent years and i'm curious what spurred it.

it couldn't have been Jeffster, could it?

I'm just a couple years too young to remember the first time around, so I don't have a sense of how ubiquitious it was when it came out. I did just hear it on saturday night at a work event.

Love this song, but this is Groundhog Day by this point

xxpost lol Jeffster i forgot abt that

No matter how I feel about this song (underrated: Rosanna), everything about the Serengeti line drives me nuts. The way it's delivered, the way it squeezes too many syllables in, the way it compares an iconic mountain to another iconic mountain ...

yes i feel like the ubiquity has sharply increased in recent years and i'm curious what spurred it.

Was just talking about this the other day. It's kind of akin to "Don't Stop Believin'"'s resurgence, but at least that was bolstered by both ironic and serious pop-culture/sports use. "Africa" ... I have no fucking clue. Though it does make for the funniest "Shittyflute" clip, imo.

I mean are these songs whose legends have actually grown with nostalgia? At least with Livin' On A Prayer I feel like people got just as excited about it back then as they do now.

Re forced scansion- my friend used to memorably rag on Minutemen for "The toiLET / Starts fluSHING"

I honestly don't know who is into these songs, but I do get a sense it is more than just, say, people my age. The question is, why would someone 20 years younger than me be into "Africa," or "Don't Stop Believing'" or "Living on a Prayer?" Certainly they don't seem to be particularly into Journey or Bon Jovi, let alone Toto, as bands. Maybe they are?

Anyway, Toto is just the most mercenary shit, imo. Super players who sort of lucked into a time when their brand of schlock would be heavily promoted and consumed, maximum AOR. Though I do like this surprisingly ambivalent Xgau review:

Toto IV (Columbia, 1982)
Wish I could claim this millionaire Grammy-rock was totally pleasureless, but professionalism is rarely that neat. The fattest of all studio bands is almost as hooky as Shoes or the Ramones, and their production excesses at times betray verve, delight, even (though I must be mistaken) a sense of humor. But the lyrics are utterly forgettable, and the tone and spirit have nothing to do with rock and roll--unlike Thom Bell, to whom they've been rapturously compared in Billboard, they don't know the difference between slick and smooth, between hedonism and conspicuous consumption. At least Michael McDonald learned his shit from the real thing; Bobby Kimball and Steve Lukather learned theirs from McDonald. Still, for a band that crosses Chicago, Asia, and the Doobie Brothers, they have their glitzy moments. B-

let's not forget the derulo kinda cover
a work of art

I never really got the impression that this stuff went away among the white working class?

Seriously, I don't think it's that surprising that big singles would endure longer than the bands' oeuvre (although I totally have known younger people who are into Journey and Foreigner as bands; the latter seems to have a definite following in Western NY state). Wrt "Don't Stop Believin'", it always did stand out to me among Journey's radio staples so it never surprised me that it became the one that was revived, even if it wasn't their biggest hit at the time.

how is Toto more "mercenary" than 8 million critically beloved songs recorded by session musicians at Stax, Motown, by the Wrecking Crew etc?

like Hal Blaine is sitting there thinking oh man I'm glad I'm not playing jazz Sonny & Cher really pumps my nads

Africa keeps getting lifted up on a sorta regular basis by GTA, South Park, Stranger Things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_(Toto_song)#In_popular_culture

and other weird places, like a famous couple's vaca video:

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/13/toto-africa-lyrics/

sorry if I am just repeating stuff everyone already knows, it's possible i'm misunderstanding the convo?

Hold The Line > Africa

All these songs were the height of awesomeness to a younger me: "Africa," "Hold the Line," "Rosanna," "Don't Stop Believin'," "Heat of the Moment." I had them all on 45. Styx, Foreigner 4, REO Speedwagon. Loved it all. I was eleven.

But what about Triumph's "Magic Power"? "I'm young, I'm wild, and I'm free. I've got the magic power of the music in me." It was top 10 in 1981 and hasn't had its Steve Carell pop-culture resurrection. It's due. Everyone with the ability to text the relevant people should get right on that, forthwith.

I would argue they are more mercenary because the quality of session guys are different. The Motown or Stax guys, for example, played to the song. The Toto guys, they had serious chops, and wrote songs to their serious chops. Under the logic that they are better players than everybody else, therefore they can construct better music than anyone else. Sort of like some prog bands, but without the adventure or invention, imo. Or like, I dunno, Asia. I think it bears considering, if I recall correctly, that Toto as a hit making force was actually pretty hit or miss, but not for a lack of churning out schlock.

I think of a cat like Larry Carlton. Awesome in Steely Dan, but left to his own devices more or less sucks.

What does mercenary have to do with quality? What do you even mean by mercenary?

God help me you are not making me c&p a dictionary definition of a word on the internet

Anyway Africa rules
Agree w Ye Mad Puffin I'm a sucker for AOR schlock

Ha, I quite like a couple of Larry Carlton albums (s/t - the instrumental tracks anyway - and Larry & Lee with Ritenour). Whatever criticisms could be made of them, I don't see how it could be argued that his solo instrumental fusion records are more mercenary than his pop session work. (I think that confuses me about the distinction you're making, too, tbh: doing what the producer needs you to do to make hits out of other people's songs seems more mercenary than writing songs to your own chops.)
xp!

Under the logic that they are better players than everybody else, therefore they can construct better music than anyone else.

did they actually say this or something

the rest of the post.. ru drunk

Not drunk! Anyway, I guess it's just relatively rare for a group of session dudes to actually spin off into their own band (is it?), and by mercenary I suppose I sort of meant cynical, just unleashed from the relative restraint of session work in service of someone else's vision in favor of slick but, well, serviceable AOR. Like, this is what they do when they're on their own, this hugely talented crew of dudes? They wanted to sound like Toto?

Re: the band's chops, I have to admit I haven't listened to much Toto, though I have watched several Jeff Porcaro youtube clips, and while I've always been impressed by his dedication to come up with new and cool ways to assist the group's pap, I've been less impressed by the other dudes, who often find a way to show off in the cheesiest, silliest way possible (like the synth-flute solo in "Africa," for example.) Anyway, if y'all want to defend Toto, that's cool. They're like number one million on my list of uncool bands I'd want to defend.

Don't know if I missed this somewhere, but isn t a big part of the recent popularity of "Africa" and "Don't Stop Believing" down to each having been prominently featured on hit TV shows.

When was "Africa" used? I like the "Grand Theft Auto" theory.

Oh, wait, you mean "Africa" in "Stranger Things?" I dunno, it felt like it had been simmering to the surface before that. Whereas Journey clearly had a big uptick after the Sopranos ep. Isn't that when it became the most bought song on iTunes or something?

my former students on fb like africa by toto, a quality sound recording from the 1980s decade

don't stop believing has been big in San Francisco forever, long before the Sopranos. It's been like the semi-official song of the Giants for some time.

"They're like number one million on my list of uncool bands I'd want to defend."

where are they in relation to Poco?

poco are cool as hell

Yeah, isn't Poco kind of cool Cali country rock?

Re: Journey and sports, I brought that up earlier. They've always been around sports. In fact, infamously when they were gearing up for the World Series or playoffs or something, the Detroit Tigers (who had adopted Don't Stop Believing) played it while entering the field to play ... the San Fran Giants.

they play "lights" in the middle of the 8th inning at at&t park, i believe

anyway Journey are undeniably a better 'band' than Poco were because they wrote lots of pretty memorable great songs and Toto wrote Africa and Rosanna. They played on Thriller which is great.

I think Stranger Things definitely played a part in the "Africa" revival.

Toto. toto. not poco. they're the same thing to me. see

the first time I saw renewed interest in Africa was when Low covered it for AV Club which was certainly before Stranger Things.

renewed hipster interest, that is

Could there have been a slow accumulation of "Africa" covers that no one notices until suddenly it's a revered old classic (see also Talking Heads "This Must Be the Place"). This is one of the big numbers in my 17-year-old nephew's high school chorus group's repertoire.

there are covers of 'this must be the place'?

Re:Cover - I saw John Pizzarelli & Jessica Molaskey's cabaret show in 2013, and they opened with a mashup of "This Must Be the Place" (sung by Jessica) and the Beatles' "Two of Us" (sung by John). Also, Shawn Colvin recorded an acoustic version on her Cover Girl album.

Also, The New Yorker said it was so in 2012, so it must be so.

My son played "Africa" in middle school jazz band earlier this year. It's definitely gone beyond hipster interest.

OTOH, his high school marching band percussion section is apparently doing an arrangement of "15 Step" by Radiohead, so who even knows anymore...

FWIW a friend of mine on FB over in Atlanta just now posted all-caps complaining that the bar next to her apartment is currently playing this song, and she added that this proves said bar is 'fuccboi central,' so perhaps that explains it.

I would argue that hipster appreciation for this stuff can be traced back to the Yacht Rock videos

It seemed p.ubiquitous back in, uh, 2007 - mashup w/MIMS' "This Is Why I'm Hot" used to get played at parties a bunch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl6s2Q9BNO4

Once saw Romania, a minor new wave/new romantic-styled Teenbeat band, play a dead-on cover of "Africa" in the late '90s. Was not ironic, which sort of made it ironic. Certainly back then it had not been reintroduced as anything novel, it was just sort of a deadpan punchline.

There was some forwarded youtube clip a few years back of open-mic dudes doing a pro cover of the song, I remember that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLrC7e3vSv8

9 million views! 2010.

tangential and prob OT but i only recently found out that miguel ferrer (yes, that miguel ferrer) played the drums in steve lukather's latin disco project, baby'o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GSo2HKS_GY

This is one of the big numbers in my 17-year-old nephew's high school chorus group's repertoire.

Ur-text for acapella Africa

https://youtu.be/2Fe11OlMiz8?t=1m51s

I actually remember seeing that open mic night Africa a lot on Facebook and stuff, I think those randos had more to do with it than Stranger Things, which was late to the party of anything

There are tons of dance remixes of Africa

My theory is that it's a good song and ppl like it

It's a great song!

The mystery is how this particular song spanned the generation gap(s) as both beloved (?) tune and ur-80s cheesy ironic joke. A la Baker Street or maybe Freebird (for their respective eras). Good song or no, there are obviously hundreds of good songs that no one under the age of 40 knows. My cousin in DC, who is a total bro under 30, seemed really interested in an upcoming protest that involved people gathering to sing Africa at the White House or something.

Idk, are there that many #1 hits in the 80s that are unknown to anyone under 40?

*from the 80s

I'll give you that the way people appreciate "Africa" seems a little different/more self-conscious from the way people appreciate "Every Breath You Take" or something.

i feel like this song is just as popular now as it was like 10 years ago *shrug*

Yeah I'm not even sure if my last post is accurate.

Just heard Toto "Africa " at a wedding and it had multigenerational appeal. Had me thinking about my dislike for it way back when.

just cos i'm bored, these are some random US number ones from the 80s that i'm guessing not too many people in their 30s could sing

"Stars on 45 Medley" Stars on 45
"The One That You Love" Air Supply
"Jessie's Girl" Rick Springfield
"Who Can It Be Now?" Men at Work
"Truly" Lionel Richie
"Everytime You Go Away" Paul Young
"A View to a Kill" Duran Duran
"Oh Sheila" Ready for the World
"There'll Be Sad Songs (To Make You Cry)" Billy Ocean
"The Next Time I Fall" Peter Cetera and Amy Grant
"Shake You Down" Gregory Abbott
"At This Moment" Billy Vera and the Beaters
"Jacob's Ladder" Huey Lewis and the News
"Always" Atlantic Starr
"Head to Toe" Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam
"Lost in Emotion" Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam
"Wishing Well" Terence Trent D'Arby
"Together Forever" Rick Astley
"Foolish Beat" Debbie Gibson
"Hold On to the Nights" Richard Marx
"Love Bites" Def Leppard
"Wild, Wild West" The Escape Club
"When I'm with You" Sheriff
"I'll Be There for You" Bon Jovi
"Baby Don't Forget My Number" Milli Vanilli
"Cold Hearted" Paula Abdul
"Blame It on the Rain" Milli Vanilli

I'm 41 and I only know 6 of those

"Jessie's Girl" Rick Springfield

nah

That's one of them

xp Pretty much everyone I know in their 30s knows and could sing "Jessie's Girl."

I'm in my 30s and the last seven are seared into my brain but OK, fair point on a lot of those, especially the ones that are contemporary with "Africa".
4xp Well, yeah, "Jessie's Girl" too

I know pretty much all of those by heart, but then I'm 46.

i'm 30 and i know most of those but i'm weird

I am 42 and could sing 18 of those off the top of my head. The others, I would not be shocked if I heard just a second or two of them and they immediately came back to me. maybe I'll check.

i feel like this song is just as popular now as it was like 10 years ago *shrug*

― dyl, Tuesday, September 19, 2017

OTM. "Africa" and "Rosanna" have never gone away.

tbf I expect I would probably know more of these if I heard a bit, but I don't recognise the titles. Plus these are US hits and some might not have been popular over here.

xp

xpost You heard them all the time in the '90s?

"Who Can It Be Now?" Men at Work

I take exception to this one too, but yeah, Jessie's Girl has reached after-midnight bar sing-along status for my generation along with livin on a prayer, africa and others

xpost You heard them all the time in the '90s?

I definitely heard "Don't Stop Believin'" (and other Journey hits) a lot on the radio in the 90s. Toto a little less but it wasn't obscure stuff by any stretch. Def more than Stars on 45.

xpost You heard them all the time in the '90s?

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, September 19, 2017

Yep! Eighties radio, A/C radio, CVS, Walgreens, Publix – they've never gone away.

Sort of what I was getting at above with my half-joking reference to the WWC. The 'revival' of these songs has mostly just seemed to be like a wider public and critical recognition of stuff that was always popular and enduring but overlooked or ridiculed in the press. (I was defending AOR on some of the earliest ILM threads.)

OK, I went through that random list again. These are the ones that didn't leap to mind, even if I recognized the title:

"Stars on 45 Medley" Stars on 45: I want to say there were a bunch of neo-disco era novelty songs? Anyway, I know the title, but not this track.
"The Next Time I Fall" Peter Cetera and Amy Grant: This one came back to me pretty fast!
"Shake You Down" Gregory Abbott: Ooh, totally forgot about this one, but it came back fast. Remember it well.
"Truly" Lionel Richie: I was pretty sure I'd recognize this one, and I did.
"At This Moment" Billy Vera and the Beaters: All these power ballads. I always got this one confused with some cover of If you don't know me by now, but yeah, I know it.
"Jacob's Ladder" Huey Lewis and the News: I know plenty of radio Huey, but not this one!
"Always" Atlantic Starr: Yeah, I know this one.
"Foolish Beat" Debbie Gibson: At first didn't recognize it, but it's in the noggin somewhere.
"When I'm with You" Sheriff: The only one, upon review, that I don't know at all. Not the act, not the name, not the song.

Omg that Sheriff song was inescapable in Canada at least into the early 00s. It actually charted in the early 80s ('82?) AND in '89.

Like Alfred, I know I've heard "Africa" out and about since it was first on the radio, but it seems only recently that it's become this sort of iconic go-to punchline/singalong, a la Bohemian Rhapsody post Wayne's World. Like, I know that song (BR) was long beloved, but WW transformed it into a more pervasive cultural mainstay in the same punchline/singalong mold. That's why I'm trying to figure out what gave "Africa" a big boost relatively recently, like last 10 years.

Wiki not too helpful:

The song was used in an advertisement for Castle Lager in South Africa in the late 1990s.
The song was used in the video game Grand Theft Auto: Vice City on the fictional radio station Emotion 98.3.
A Foster Farms commercial in the United States features a choir of animatronic chickens singing the song as part of the poultry producer's "Amazing Chicken" campaign.
The song was featured at the beginning of the Scrubs episode "My Way Home". The song was being played through J.D.'s iPod and the band's name was the first of many references to The Wizard of Oz in the episode.
"Africa" was featured in multiple episodes of the 20th season of South Park.
The song was featured in the first episode of the first season of Stranger Things.

I'm still leaning toward Vice City. The/a question is, how many people in their 20s and 30s know "Self Control" by Laura Branigan? Or any of the relatively lesser publicly heard songs from that game?

"Jacob's Ladder" got to #1 because (a) payola (b) Bruce Hornsby. It's the only News hit I couldn't hum either.

"When I'm With You" remains ubiquitous. The lead singer formed Alias and scored a huge hit with 1990's '"More Than Words Can Say."

Hey look at this:

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/13/toto-africa-lyrics/

Though honestly that just comes to the same "good song, people like it" conclusion. I suppose I never thought of it as "world music" before, I guess it doesn't sort of presage something like "In Your Eyes," written by Peter Gabriel for ... Rosanna Arquette! She is the key to this all, I think.

(Does, not doesn't presage)

This is one of the major recent uses of Africa that I seem to recall, and it's from 2010:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkpdMKZBlP8

A while ago I heard Chris de Burgh's "Don't Pay the Ferryman" in the grocery store. Took me back, let me tell you. Another time it was Martin Page's "House of Stone and Light."

"House of Stone and Light" reminds me of "Africa" quite a bit - soaring, great chorus, vaguely spiritual, a white person's idea of shamanistic imagery, a piling up of almost-random metaphors to approximate an unearned deepness.

But that Triumph song has vanished.

Oh, and for the persistence in popular culture of "Don't Stop Believin',"* note that it was also given post-Glee prominence by the execrable Tom Cruise vehicle "Rock of Ages."

* - PHEAR MY MAD PUNCTUATIN' SKILLZ, YO

Oh, forgot about Glee! Is Africa in Glee?

There's also Straight No Chaser's acapella cover of 12 Days of Christmas that incorporates Africa at the end which seems to go back as far as 1998, but I feel like I've heard more and more in recent years, and was included on a Chirstmas album in 2009.

Do younger people glom on to "I Want to Know What Love Is?" the same way?

a close friend and I are forever going WITHOUT MY SOOULLLL YEAH re "House of Stone and Light." It sounded like the mid '90s Sting hit that Sting couldn'ts core.

Josh: not "Africa" that I know of, but that show did rescue a lot of other stuff from potential oblivion.

Re: Men at Work, I don't think "Who Can it Be Now" or "Down Under" have ever quite faded from the culture, but Colin Hay as an artist was almost certainly rescued from bankrupt obscurity by "Scrubs" and "Garden State."

Lord Alfred, one cannot discuss pale Sting imitators without tipping the hat to Mr. Mister. Which was recently given an attempted rescue via a shout-out in that horrible Train song with the fucking ukulele.

Men At Work >>>>>> Toto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBIOekGeiGE

at least in Canada, I always assumed this was the reason for Africa's re-appearance.

Rosanna is definitely better.

"Rosanna" has never faded from YouTube - and probably never will - not least because of drummers trying to learn the shuffle.

Ha, I was going to say that Triumph is still in heavy rotation on Canadian rock stations. To confirm, I just checked the playlist of Ottawa's classic rock station and, yep, "Magic Power" was played less than an hour ago.

I was in a nightclub in pto vallarta called Strana this weekend (probably the best nightclub in mexico i've only seen better in las vegas) and they played this song! It was a mashup of Rihanna's pour it up with the Nick Merenda edit of the song, not the original... which I'm guessing was live because I cant find it on the internet.

Anyways I recommend giving the edit a listen it's cool and apparently great for live mashup mixing:

https://m.soundcloud.com/nick-mere/toto-africa-nick-merenda

Sund4r, thanks. I guess my problem is living 500 miles south of the line of its glacial advance.

The/a question is, how many people in their 20s and 30s know "Self Control" by Laura Branigan?

Knowing the song and video for self control (not just knowing them but KNOWING them) ought to be an indispensable and obligatory component of any young person's sentimental education IMO

My wife (age 39) did not know it. When it came on the radio, she was intrigued and shazammed it. I was like "oh yeah, that."

as a kid I only knew Laura Branigan from watching VH1 and they only talked about "Gloria" and I'm pretty sure I'm the only 20/30something who watched VH1 as a preteen

I prefer the Raf version

it's kind of interesting that there was a pop singer in the US who became moderately successful doing italo covers

freaking LOVED laura branigan when i was a kid
all of these songs leaked into my brain as a childhood radio freak and remain there permanently except for the Huey Lewis one

the rest of them i could sing on cue, sadly

Men At Work are awesome, and the fact that they were successfully sued for "Down Under" is one of the greatest copyright law travesties ever.

That is all.

Men At Work >>>>>> Toto

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:19 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a mega truth bomb right here.

"Overkill" is so fucking good, i have lots of time for MaW

there's an interesting documentary about colin james hay on amazon prime

there's an interesting documentary about colin james hay on amazon prime

"Overkill" is so fucking good

^^

I CANT GET TO SLEEP

My mom really liked that documentary, I am def intrigued to explore menAW

Wiki not too helpful:

The song was used in an advertisement for Castle Lager in South Africa in the late 1990s.
The song was used in the video game Grand Theft Auto: Vice City on the fictional radio station Emotion 98.3.
A Foster Farms commercial in the United States features a choir of animatronic chickens singing the song as part of the poultry producer's "Amazing Chicken" campaign.
The song was featured at the beginning of the Scrubs episode "My Way Home". The song was being played through J.D.'s iPod and the band's name was the first of many references to The Wizard of Oz in the episode.
"Africa" was featured in multiple episodes of the 20th season of South Park.
The song was featured in the first episode of the first season of Stranger Things.

I'm still leaning toward Vice City. The/a question is, how many people in their 20s and 30s know "Self Control" by Laura Branigan? Or any of the relatively lesser publicly heard songs from that game?

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, September 19, 2017 7:56 AM (three hours ago)

Hey look at this:

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/13/toto-africa-lyrics/

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, September 19, 2017 7:58 AM (three hours ago)

lol, these are the two links i posted yesterday, largely in response to your "no fucking clue" post, Josh.

thread moves fast, i understand.

Men at Work get a pass because the two huge Cargo singles ("Overkill," "It's a Mistake") rip their Business as Usual counterparts to shreds. But they still weren't very good.

business at usual was the first album cassette i ever bought

xpost That's funny. sometimes on my phone links show, sometimes less so.

ha, Business as Usual was the first album (LP) I remember getting excited about buying. It was a Thursday and I knew I would get it on the following Tuesday. This is how I remember that Thurs-Tues = 5 days.

the first cassette i bought was She's So Unusual

young(er) people do learn of classic hits thru, hm, classic hits radio (this song has been a mainstay at that format forever) -- doesn't have to be grand theft auto or glee or rock band

love this song. i made a few remixes of this recently. one is looping just the intrumental hook part over and over w stuttering gitchy noise. the other is that beat slowed down really slow with a repeater instead of pitch bending. ill post them here when i find them!

xpost Honestly didn't know young people listened to the radio. Even then, don't know what classic hits radio is. Trying to think what local station would play "Africa" ...

Men at Work rule

The common take is that Men At Work benefitted from the Police taking too long in the studio, due to a few superficial similarities, but yeah, that first album at least is pretty strong.

anecdotally, i heard "africa" at the roller rink when i was a kid, but i never gave a shit about it until vice city came out. i'm 41. and i didn't actually ever _play_ vice city.

Case closed. Blame "Vice City."

africa by toto is a meme

i definitely became more "interested" in toto once i learned they were studio whizzes who played on steely dan recs... as a youngster i just grouped them with stuff like air supply, didn't know they were the ones who did that awesome 'love isn't always on time' song

and i definitely grew to enjoy the production of "africa" and the huge, brilliant chorus

See - and I know at least on paper they are of a totally different class - but I always grouped them not with Air Supply and the like, but REO Speedwagon and bands like that.

I think only Jeff Porcaro played with Steely Dan. The rest of them were your otherwise ubiquitous studio hacks who handled everything from yacht rock to top 40. I'll give them this, though, "Human Nature" is a sophisticated little track.

BTW, I just learned than one of Toto's former and now, again, current singers is the son of John Williams.

If you're looking for an explanation of "Africa"'s surge in appeal among Millennials, don't underestimate the i-VI-III-VII progression of the chorus. For better and for worse, hat progression and its inverse (I-V-vi-III, which "Don't Stop Believing" is built around) have become to 00's pop what the 12-bar blues and the doo-wop progression were to the 1950s and 60s. Those two progressions were relatively uncommon in the early 80s, but you started to hear them a lot more when alt-rock and pop-punk went major in the 90s. Since the heyday of Blink-182 they've been fucking inescapable. But they're a pop lingua franca, so older songs that use them probably slot a lot more comfortably into contemporary medleys and playlists.

Inspired by UMS's praise, we watched the Colin Hay documentary this evening -- and it is indeed very good. Highly recommended to all.

All classic songs are cathartic and capture a sensation or feeling or moment in time or what have you... I don't know what this song captures... the lyrics are fucking dumb and obviously written by someone who doesn't know much about Africa so I'm inclined to think this song is not about africa but about the idea of it... this song is about wanderlust isnt it?

It's the catchy musical elements of the track that make this song great - the opening keyboard hook which repeats in the verses, the beauty of the vocal melody in the verses followed by the passion and longing of the vocal melody in the chorus (especially when married to that chord progression) and it's all impeccably played and performed.

Sometimes it's less what a track spells out, and more what a track suggests that is the appeal.

My theory is that it's a good song and ppl like it

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:24 AM

otm

My re-entry point came with the Late Nite Tuff Guy edit, which re-surfaced last year. I had a few weeks of being obsessed with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDwI0DTqD_A

never underestimate people's love for "randomness" and absurdity. for me there's a sort of tension between the lyrics and the music that elevates the song, even beyond the sort of nameless melancholy evoked by both the music and the lyrics. the impressive feat of "africa" is that it manages to get lyrics so poor to sound so good. indeed the lyrics almost function like dissonance does, something to be resolved by the music. that tension is what makes it relistenable without launching a massive "enough of this shit already" backlash.

See, I can't get past the lyrics. I have no real problem with the music (save the synth-sax solo), but the lyrics to me just suck.

Rushomancy otmfm

I will concede a glass-half-empty stance, but if the lyrics weren't so clunky and dumb this song could have been great. Or, yeah, "In Your Eyes" 1.0.

I really appreciate the aforementioned deep dive into the chord progression, I think there is really something to that.

Can I quibble, though? Pretty sure "Don't Stop Believin'" is I-V-vi-IV (not I-V-vi-III as thewufs wrote).

don't underestimate the i-VI-III-VII progression of the chorus. For better and for worse, hat progression and its inverse (I-V-vi-III, which "Don't Stop Believing" is built around)

It's I-V-vi-IV that is "Let it Be" and "No Woman No Cry" and "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" and on and on. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%E2%80%93V%E2%80%93vi%E2%80%93IV_progression

never underestimate people's love for "randomness" and absurdity. for me there's a sort of tension between the lyrics and the music that elevates the song, even beyond the sort of nameless melancholy evoked by both the music and the lyrics. the impressive feat of "africa" is that it manages to get lyrics so poor to sound so good. indeed the lyrics almost function like dissonance does, something to be resolved by the music. that tension is what makes it relistenable without launching a massive "enough of this shit already" backlash.

― bob lefse (rushomancy), Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:36 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah also, after the goofiest of all the song's goofiest lines "As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" it hits you with this existential dread:

"I seek to cure what's deep inside/frightened of this thing that I've become"

^^^ yeah that line is kinda BOC actually

Yeah sorry the last chord on "Don't Stop Believin'" is IV.

The existential dread line is ruined when he explained it:

Paich told SongFacts.com,

That was me using a lot of writer’s license. I remember seeing lots of films of starving and famine when I was a kid in pictures of Africa. Then I’d seen some movies and read a lot of the National Geographics, and always wanted to go to Africa, so I romanticized this story about a social worker that goes over there and falls in love with working with the country and doing good.

But he also falls in love and has to make a choice between helping people for the rest of his life or having a family and doing that kind of thing."

The fourth chord in the progression, I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwNGR792Ifk

good lord

'we wanted flying cars, instead we got pitch-shifted toto'

-- bob marley

Can I quibble, though? Pretty sure "Don't Stop Believin'" is I-V-vi-IV (not I-V-vi-III as thewufs wrote).

The third chord alternates between vi and iii every other line, maybe that's what he meant?

'we wanted flying cars, instead we got pitch-shifted toto'

-- bob marley

― mookieproof, Wednesday, September 20, 2017 5:03 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LOL!

"I seek to cure what's deep inside/frightened of this thing that I've become"

I ruined these lines for myself a while back by singing "I seek to cure what's been pan-fried / frightened of this thing that I bacon". In hindsight it totally makes no sense, but if you wanted to do some targeted marketing of porkstuffs to 20-something necrovores, well you could do worse.

The third chord alternates between vi and iii every other line, maybe that's what he meant?

As I mentioned it was just a mistake, but yeah, I know that. It's a nice little twist, though I'll bet your average shitty bar band doesn't even know it's there, at least not without a fakebook. Still, I never want to hear "Don't Stop Believing" again in my entire life. Despite the horseshit exoticism and godawful lyrics, I won't get sick of "Africa" for a while to come - musically it's just a more interesting song, but also it hasn't even approached "Don't Stop Believing" levels of saturation yet. I swear, around the Boston area that song was already overplayed before the Sopranos finale even came out.

structure of Africa is also more rewarding, verse creates tension resolved in (somewhat) cathartic chorus

Don't Stop Believin' has an all time verse that the chorus doesn't come close to delivering upon

I bless the rains down in #Nambia

— Brian Gillespie (@BrianKGillespie) September 20, 2017

never underestimate people's love for "randomness" and absurdity. for me there's a sort of tension between the lyrics and the music that elevates the song, even beyond the sort of nameless melancholy evoked by both the music and the lyrics. the impressive feat of "africa" is that it manages to get lyrics so poor to sound so good. indeed the lyrics almost function like dissonance does, something to be resolved by the music. that tension is what makes it relistenable without launching a massive "enough of this shit already" backlash.

― bob lefse (rushomancy), Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:36 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah also, after the goofiest of all the song's goofiest lines "As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" it hits you with this existential dread:

"I seek to cure what's deep inside/frightened of this thing that I've become"

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 15:18 (yesterday) Permalink

Good posts! I had a similar thought about Ventura Highway recently, another song my dad band is covering. It's the slight amateurish awkwardness of the lyrics that make them work -- the sense of a college freshman trying really hard in a poetry workshop instead of a pro songwriter that gives them some life, lead to unusual phrasings that give the song some of its rhythmic interest etc.

I know-oo-wo-oo-wo-oo-wo

it'd just be cool if virtually every single "rediscovered" meme song, with the possible exception of "total eclipse of the heart," were not by the absolute dude-est of dudes. meet the new suffocating canon, same as the old suffocating canon

[instrumental break]

— africa by toto bot (@africabytotobot) September 21, 2017

xp I'm willing to put in the work to make the Go-Go's "Head Over Heels" happen

Well there's "Girls Just Want to Have Fun", which has 441 Million views on YouTube, but I don't think that one is meme related. It's probably just legitimately popular and timeless.

so Girls Just Want to Have Fun = legitimately popular and timeless

and Africa = not legitimately popular and timeless

got it

the difference seems pretty obvious to me. there wouldn't, for instance, be a cyndi lauper twitter bot

to be clear, i adore cyndi lauper. but what does a twitter bot have to do with this?

my only real point is a song becomes a meme because it is popular, and it is popular because it has good qualities that make it so.

i think it's bullshit to discredit Toto for having a song that's more popular than ever 35 years after they wrote and released it, no matter the reasons. they put together words and melodies and instrumental parts and rhythms that have not only endured, they've grown in popularity and stature. let them have a little credit, rather than saying "this song is only popular because it was in a video game." well guess what - someone chose that song for that video game because they like it and they knew it would resonate with people! barflies sing "Closing Time" because it's catchy and gives them a warm feeling! Red Sox fans sing "Sweet Caroline" because it's got an unbeatable hook!

every artist would kill to have one of these songs that's mega-popular and enduring ... but not reeeeally, says ILM.

ok now i am defending Toto onfuckingline before noon, what happened, where did it all go wrong

^frightened of this thing he has become

legit lol

people make twitter bots of memes, that's the whole point of them. it's not discrediting a song to point out a major source of its popularity

Yeah, I'm confused that so many people on here are simply against the idea that "Africa" has had a meme-ified boost lately.

what was the meme?

the Toto by Africa twitter bot that is tweeting out the song's lyrics is a major source of its popularity?

or the meme is?

if the former ... no way.

if the latter ... see UMS' question.

and yes, slow clap for Jon not Jon

The song "Africa" by Toto, as discussed in this thread.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/africa-by-toto?full=1

"I know there are so many 'All Star except every word is replaced with the sound of a pitch shifted fart' YouTube videos, but please don't discredit this excellent song"

I'm not buying that the spread of Africa's popularity is due to those youtubes from 2010. I did an Orlando Fringe production which had Toto and specifically "Africa" as a running joke throughout. several friends' bands would cover it at bars/restaurants etc. memes seemed more like a byproduct of the popularity than anything causal

youtubes or any memes, I should say

that Fringe production was from 2008

like sure it boosted it like any meme would but it isn't like "Africa" was like some tucked away 80s obscurity that just resurfaced over night, it p much never went away to begin with

yes

it has been a lol'd-at-yet-admired song as long as i can remember

whereas like, "Never Gonna Give You Up", sure, a lot of people remembered it, but the infamous Rickroll meme was largely responsible for its re-emergence and continued popularity. that one owed a lot more to the meme.

No, I'm not buying that "Africa" has always been this popular. I mean, I was there ... when the song was a hit. But I was also there when the song was good/funny only for people my age, a sort of ironic Gen X joke. I have no idea why the song is so popular/hilarious among people half my age, but there's no way it's just because it's "good." That's why I gravitated toward the reassuring chord progression, which makes some degree of sense to me.

the song is all of the above -- chart hit, ironic GenX joke, popular YouTube cover, lol'd-at-yet-admired, a cappella staple, legitimately popular and timeless, sync fave, target of TV jokemen, popular/hilarious among people half our age, possible meme, etc., etc. -- because it's a catchy, well-crafted song (with some bad lyrics but who cares about lyrics)

agree or disagree? everyone vote.

c'mon man, the song isn't exactly "Don't Stop Believin'", but it's always been instantly recognizable and popular. Betty White sang "Africa" on Community in 2010 ffs.

I went on my FB and found 11 friends posting about the song in 2009-2010, only two of which were in response to some obscure a capella group doing it (couldn't find earlier as most of them were still on MySpace at the time lol)

hell one of my friends recorded a 3 part a capella version of it in 09 apparently (yay for FB search)

i guess a song being a "meme" is a little weird to me, because i think you could go back pretty far, like for example the Bee Gees' "Stayin' Alive" has always operated at that nexus of irony and genuine love. i just feel like the same thing was already happening with a lot of these songs, it just moved on the internet.

feels different than Rick Rolling which was really specifically an Internet stunt, or Rebecca Black Friday or Gangham Style, those type of viral meme songs

like Toto has had memes that might have boosted its popularity, but not an outright kingmaker like Rick Astley did.

xpost ums otm

also sorry i know i'm getting really into "who knows what a ~~~~meme~~~~ even is maaaaaan" territory here *smokes doobie*

my high school choir even had SATB sheet music for Africa lol (never got to do it tho)

a few things:

1. "Never Gonna Give You Up" is definitely a bigger meme song than "Africa", but then again, there aren't many songs in general that can match the meme power of the Rickroll.
2. "Staying Alive" is a great example of a meme song avant la lettre.
3. I don't recall really encountering "Africa" much during the 1990s, certainly not as a thing in pop culture. I kinda get the impression that people on here saying it's been a constant really mean it has been for the past 10 years or so. There was definitely a period where this track sank a bit into obscurity.

Maybe I'm wrong though, don't know when you were in HS Neanderthal.

'Africa' used to get a fair amount of play on VH-1 UK in the '90s. I remember being in a taxi in the late '90s and the taxi driver fucking playing the thing on a loop. This song has never really gone away. It doesn't feel like a meme to me either.

xp I'm willing to put in the work to make the Go-Go's "Head Over Heels" happen

― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, September 21, 2017

let's do this!

As long as there isn't a fucking 'Breakfast at Tiffany's' resurgence...

the endtimes are near, i wouldn't rule it out

i think there is a sense to "Africa" being sort of a punchline, and I would hate for that to happen to "Head Over Heels" -- it deserves better than to be intentionally baconed

Wilson Phillips' "Release Me."

"Head Over Heels" is awesome.

There was definitely a period where this track sank a bit into obscurity.

Not just this track, but much of the louchey-douchey radio rock music from this period. It would probably have seemed a bit ridic / faintly embarrassing to admit you liked it. To a lot of people in my social circle anyways. Not that I tested this rigorously, but I suspect it would have seemed a little weird to be unironically cranking this up at a keg party in 1993.

It was normal to like music that was older than this, or newer than this. Or obscurer than this, or more popular than this. But something like Styx or Toto fell into a kind of trough, both in terms of age (neither fresh nor classic) and in terms of exposure level (neither unknown nor popular). My high school had deadheads and metalheads, goths and punks, but nobody who walked around wearing an REO Speedwagon concert tee.

REO speedwagon was for olds

Wilson Phillips was featured at the end of Bridesmaids but I don't know if that connotes meme status.

i doubt i have heard this song played in a non-jokey way (outside of a cvs) in 30 years. i mean i've totally enjoyed this thread's discussion of the chord changes, etc, but it's a corny-ass song with in-your-face terrible lyrics, and not even in a fist-pumpy way like 'don't stop believin'

hold the line is a jam, though

tbh i'm having a hard time thinking of songs by female artists that are this aggressively corny about something so random. certainly not the go-go's. i guess we'll always have rebecca black

I think that the meme-ification process - especially of Glee and the Pitch Perfect movies (plus the accompanying popularity renaissance of a capella) - may have had a liberating effect on what people feel they can admit they always liked.

Personally I've always liked "Africa" but I probably would have been quieter about it in high school and college. Maybe that just means I suck at being a human, or am insufficiently secure in my taste/judgment, or care too much about seeming "cool." But teens and young adults generally develop a pretty good sense at what you'll get laughed at for championing.

tbh i'm having a hard time thinking of songs by female artists that are this aggressively corny

Heart, "These Dreams." It's "Total Eclipse of the Heart"-level corn.

"Black Velvet" is a borderline case. I have days when I think it's the awesomest thing that ever awesomed; at other times I think it's pretty cornish.

omg "black velvet" is horrible

I associate 'Africa' with this compilation, which my parents had on cassette and that I used to listen to a lot as a kid.

http://images.eil.com/large_image/VARIOUS-60S_%26_70S_OPEN%2BTOP%2BCARS%2BAND%2BGIRLS%2BIN%2BT%2BSHIRTS-449225.jpg

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Open-Top-Cars-And-Girls-In-TShirts/release/8718875

Looking at the tracklisting again I guess that some of those tracks would have been considered cool/'credible' at the time and some wouldn't, but I think these distinctions matter less to people the further away you get from the era they were released?

'these dreams' is a good call

I agree that Head Over Heals is not corny enough for this kind of appreciation, but maybe Heaven Is A Place On Earth/I Get Weak/Circle In The Sand? they are all great but also corny imo

Heaven is a Place on Earth has scored in this field via Black Mirror iirc

xps I don't think I ever noticed before that it's written "T'Shirts" and not T-Shirts

xps Oh and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G4O5AMSevc

Cornier than Field of Dreams.

xp LL - thanks for mentioning that! There's like 20 excellent near-forgotten songs in that Black Mirror episode.

well only one of the girls is actually wearing a t-shirt

t'shirts made me lol
it's like t'pau

As long as there isn't a fucking 'Breakfast at Tiffany's' resurgence...

I heard this in a Walgreen's yesterday and was depressed

would totally support Michael Penn "No Myth" revival imo

xpost I would enjoy that song more if 20 seconds in the music gave way to the sounds of a shotgun pump, a loud blast, screams, and then nothing but stunned silence and sobbing

That's a good song. He was kind of a proto-Elliott Smith with less self-loathing

xp

the lyrics for "no myth" are sufficiently verbose, i think this one has a chance

I mentioned it because I hear it these days at CVS

"No Myth" helped me win back an ex-girlfriend. (Reader, I married her.)

i just watched the video and 1) it's terrible 2) seeing michael penn again reminded me how cuuuuute he was and 3) all the lyrics about romeo and heathcliff and who knows what else are balanced by the repeated universally understood message that "she's just looking for someone to dance with" which let's face it, resonates in a universally understood way like "it's gonna take a lot to take me away from you"

sometime from now you'll bow to pressure!

"No Myth" is a perfect single and he was adorable. March was the first album on CD I ever bought.

No Myth > Barely Breathing > Breakfast at Tiffany's > Friends Theme.

You're welcome.

i just checked and he is still very easy on the eyes

No Myth is awesome.

Wasn't there some indie cover of Heart's "Alone" not long ago?

Robert Forster covered it about twenty years ago.

there's this piece of shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uep94GnfiOI

oh lord pac

Fingerless gloves are the new Linda Perry hat-goggles.

No Myth > Barely Breathing > Breakfast at Tiffany's > Friends Theme.

You're welcome.

― Each of us faces a clear moral choice. (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, September 21, 2017 8:31 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What about the theme tune from Baywatch?

I see I already mentioned the 2007 Rune Lindbæk edit upthread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQOU7Nz2xuE

So this was 2013, a good example of the song as lazy punchline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9F86cAoi3o

"these dreams" is an example of a song I thought was insufferable at the time, and which is indisputably corny as hell, yet which in my early middle age has become totally poignant and beautiful to me; i matured into it

THERE'S SOMETHIN' OUT THERE

"alone" on the other hand is just fire. Ann Wilson's singing on the choruses is like a silver sword.

I like those Heart AOR power ballads pretty well, but I think it's because I was the bullseye age. Like, These Dreams was ... 1985? Which means I was 10, didn't have MTV, no CDs, iirc no walkman, even (the first friend of mine who got one was playing "Back in the Highlife"), so that was peak '80s radio listening for me.

also black tiger in video

iirc

It was pretty common practice to sneak large cats into many videos back then, as little easter eggs for those willing to rewatch and spot them.

https://i2.wp.com/thegrio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tumblr_m9iuxlru2g1rrywaao1_500.jpg?fit=500%2C500

The synth parts in "These Dreams" are gorgeous, and Wilson is up to them.

Written originally for Stevie Nicks, by the way, who might've made something poignant out of it too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH-rPt1ftSo

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fl41lOT9oq7T0FfExa%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1

this discussion is so weird to me! Toto is in a completely separate league from literally all the bands y'all're naming here. Like, I love Heart. They were my first favorite band. Saw them twice, on the Dog & Butterfly tour and again on the Bebe le Strange tour. Life-changing shows for me. But musically? They are not in Toto's league. Neither are any of the bands y'all're roping into "sort of like Toto with 'Africa'" territory. Toto are the guys who, when they were teenagers, make Silk Degrees what it is. The weird story of their commercial arc is as much a story of marketing & personalities as it is a musical story, but if we're focusing on music, Toto stands hiiiiiiigh above all this stuff. They occupy a different neighborhood.

rockist!

this whole thread revive has been kinda weird imo

one of those ilx thought exercises where i'm like ok have fun guys, let me know when we're talking abt toto again

you know what's a jam tho? "I'll Supply The Love"

xpost No one is impugning the chops and musicality of Toto, I don't think. But per marketing and whatnot, I find it really interesting how erratic their success was. 1978 debut has a few big hits. 1979 follow-up, no hits. 1981 album, flop. 1982 Toto IV, huge hits. 1984 follow-up, supposedly had a modest hit in "Stranger In Town" but I've never heard it before and listening now it sucks. Follow-up had a couple of modest schlock hits. And then ... that's it, right? If anything, the marketing and personalities shows that no amount of the former could make up for lack of the latter, right? Even in the heyday of payola and AOR product these dudes were wildly, er, hit or miss. Compared to, like, Journey, or Heart or whomever. Or Chicago or Doobie Brothers.

success rose and fell w/ public perception of Lukather's foofy hair

They may wildly differing levels of quality and/or musicianship but all these things were on the radio at the same time, in the same Casey Kasem jumble, along with "Come on Eileen" and "Down Under" or whatever. Plus, some of us were like 10 years old and not exactly cognizant of chops, or of the seminal early work, or whatever.

If I lump "Africa" in with "Sail Away" or "Keep on Lovin' You," it's not necessarily because they're all at the same level of quality, but because they have sound similar sound/vibe/images as presented to my consciousness in and around 1983.

Plus, some of us were like 10 years old and not exactly cognizant of chops

I can kinda picture Dan listening to Whitney Houston at that age and shouting "FLAT!" at the radio

one of those ilx thought exercises where i'm like ok have fun guys, let me know when we're talking abt toto again
otm

https://i.imgur.com/wO4Q6fD.png

toto af

neat little memory of Toto from the latest issue of Tape Op, interview with Steve Addabbo, most famous for discovering and producing Suzanne Vega, worked w/tons of ppl including Shawn Colvin, Eric Anderson....anyway this is a memory from his days as an assistant mastering engineer

https://s26.postimg.org/e6aqadyh5/totomastering.jpg

xpost No one is impugning the chops and musicality of Toto, I don't think. But per marketing and whatnot, I find it really interesting how erratic their success was. 1978 debut has a few big hits. 1979 follow-up, no hits. 1981 album, flop. 1982 Toto IV, huge hits. 1984 follow-up, supposedly had a modest hit in "Stranger In Town" but I've never heard it before and listening now it sucks. Follow-up had a couple of modest schlock hits. And then ... that's it, right? If anything, the marketing and personalities shows that no amount of the former could make up for lack of the latter, right? Even in the heyday of payola and AOR product these dudes were wildly, er, hit or miss. Compared to, like, Journey, or Heart or whomever. Or Chicago or Doobie Brothers.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, September 21, 2017 6:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you can't mention toto without mentioning all the classic works of other artists that they played on imo

can too

this is a thread about toto's 'africa', not a thread about toto or toto members' session work. also i am going to ask my co-workers about africa and *not* mention silk degrees and you can't stop me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYlFkmekXyM

can too

this is a thread about toto's 'africa', not a thread about toto or toto members' session work. also i am going to ask my co-workers about africa and *not* mention silk degrees and you can't stop me

― mookieproof, Friday, September 22, 2017 2:21 PM (fifty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is reckless behavior how dare u?

can too

this is a thread about toto's 'africa', not a thread about toto or toto members' session work. also i am going to ask my co-workers about africa and *not* mention silk degrees and you can't stop me

― mookieproof, Friday, September 22, 2017 12:21 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm going to do the lido shuffle ... on your grave

guess i better head for the border line

Jeff Porcaro wrote Michael Jackson's "Human Nature," right? I love that song so hard.

this boz on porcaro violence has to stop

wtf why are there nearly 300 new answers on this thread - tldr please tell me - TIA

I wondered the same but I saw sund4r posting and he never shuts up about toto..

IIRC, a dood was like "wtf, Africa has always been popular, and it's popular because it's fucking great" and other doodz were like "yabbut it was brought to a new level of prominence due to its presence in the memeosphere" and other doodz were like "what does it mean to be a meme anyways" and other doodz were like "can't it be both a great song and one that was rescued from relative obscurity by a video game" and other doodz were like "does that diminishes its greatness? nope."

At the same time somebody was all like, "why are all these rescued tunes so dude-o-centric?" And then ppl were all like, "dude, are there songs by female artists that are this corny anyways?" And there was discussion of that. Then some other dude was all like, "dude, when are we going to start talking about the awesomeness of the 1982 song 'Africa' by the band Toto again?"

Steve Porcaro wrote "Human Nature." The story is he recorded his demo on the other side of the cassette of demos the band gave Quincy Jones. He wouldn't have heard it at all had he not let the tape just flip over and continue playing.

Anyway, we are so not talking about session work featuring members of Toto, though that would only further underscore how much Toto sucks.

startrekman rivaled only by T✧✧@K✧✧.E✧✧ for title of greatest ilxor of all time

mods, how dare you censor

I wondered the same but I saw sund4r posting and he never shuts up about toto..

― starving street dogs of punk rock (Odysseus), Friday, 22 September 2017 15:00 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

???

Steve Porcaro wrote "Human Nature." The story is he recorded his demo on the other side of the cassette of demos the band gave Quincy Jones. He wouldn't have heard it at all had he not let the tape just flip over and continue playing.

Anyway, we are so not talking about session work featuring members of Toto, though that would only further underscore how much Toto sucks.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, September 22, 2017 1:15 PM (fifty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if there's one thing I know about Sund4r it is his incessant posting about Toto. just like how Dan Perry only posts about skeeball

Pretty sure "Jessie's Girl" is still a more popular song than "Africa" even as of 2017.

(Just to be clear, I like the Toto dudes as session dudes a lot, but no way will I say that Toto does not suck.)

Gary Wright's "Dream Weaver" is kind of a '70s version of cheesy song as punchline, isn't it?

stop

Again I need to recommend "Waiting For Your Love"

many xposts to ENBB -- because they are barely even talking about Toto but 'examining' the 'popularity' of 'similar' songs of the 'era' ...it's a fuckin snooze and a half lemme tell ya

okay veg, bring us back to the core, the heart music. toto's africa

I can think a band to death but at the end of the day Toto are kind of shit.

Luis Irastorza Valera
1 year ago
Back when Zach Galifianakis was a pop star.

HA!

230+ million views can't be wrong. I got a pretty big chuckle seeing the end of the video when the singer is lounging with his shirt top two unbuttoned on the AFRICA book at the end. Hadn't seen this video since the Night Tracks days.

Man alive do you even know who Jeff Porcaro was?

can you even fathom the power of jeff porcaro you beastly ruffian

Yes, and it's a shame he's probably best known for the "Rosanna shuffle" -- absolute garbage from a brilliant drummer.

the rosanna shuffle is the rhythm of my soul

they were a bunch of savants really, "good musicians" making terrible music

my friday night is ruined

http://images2.onionstatic.com/onion/2386/6/16x9/1200.jpg

this is #content

If JP's work on "Rosanna" is garbage, then give us an example of his "brilliance"

i dont even care that much abt toto!

certainly not half as much as you weirdos anyway

this is like those comedy tv show threads where you sign up to talk abt a fun thing & get dragged through 9000 thinkposts abt the mechanics of the fictional universe ... suck all the syrup out of the slurpee & leave nothing but a sad clump of crushed flavorless ice YOU MONSTERS

jk i love you all

If a Porcaro shuffles in the forest and no one is there to hear him, is he really shuffling?

Who names a band "Toto" though, really

I thought the name was latin, rather than any Wizard of Oz reference?

Pretty sure "Jessie's Girl" is still a more popular song than "Africa" even as of 2017.

― billstevejim, viernes 22 de septiembre de 2017 22:50 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Spotify says

Africa 203M listens
Jessie's Girl 85M listens

Godbless the age of easily accesible data

Christ, I thought it would have easily been the other way around.