Channel 4 Hall of Fame

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Last night was the turn of the 80s nominations for the UK Hall of Fame. I wasn't really expecting the programme to be good, but it still ended up annoying the fuck out of me. Why were so many of the nominations American? I like plenty of American music, but was Bruce Springsteen really that significant in Britain? Or Guns 'n' Roses? For most of my childhood the charts were full of hits by The Specials, The Jam, Madness, Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, The Pet Shop Boys. I only really like the first three of these - but how could none of these groups get nominated?

Also, the editors just keep getting basic things wrong. Last week they told us that by the summer of 96 the world had gone Spice Girls crazy. Despite the fact that nobody had heard of the Spice Girls anywhere in the summer of 96, and their first single came out in the autumn. This wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't already shown us half of the Spice Girls career, before suddenly lurching back in time two years. The same thing happened last night with Public Enemy. We'd been through a tour of Britain in 1989 when they suddenly announced that in the summer of 88 Public Enemy released Fight The Power. Despite the fact that the first words are "1989! Another summer!". Grrr...

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 18 October 2004 06:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I was more stunned that Joy Division were nominated!

Go on. Vote for they. Wouldn't that make the front pages!

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 October 2004 06:31 (nineteen years ago) link

My favourite revelation from last week was that Snoop Dogg hasn't worked with any big name producers since Dr Dre.

Also, Joy Division only had two different top 40 singles and no top 10s. Compare this to The Jam (four number one singles) and the Pet Shop Boys (also four number ones, and a top 10 career lasting 20 years). And yet the first one gets nominated and the second don't.

The ability to laud Public Enemy for political impact, and then only mentioning The Specials once in the entire show is also some crazy type of muppetry.

― Chairman ROFLMAO (Dom Passantino), Monday, 18 October 2004 06:34 (nineteen years ago) link

lots of folk missed out. ridiculous.
was a delight to see joy division there.

who the hell was in charge of nominations to get them down to that bunch?

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 18 October 2004 06:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Pet shop boys really should be on there.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 18 October 2004 07:01 (nineteen years ago) link

no Scritti? This is a poll in name only.

― lukey (Lukey G), Monday, 18 October 2004 07:34 (nineteen years ago) link

oh yeah - i was totally expecting scritti and talk talk.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 18 October 2004 07:43 (nineteen years ago) link

oh yeah, and you'll be expecting Mark Hollis solo in the nineties prog?

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 October 2004 07:48 (nineteen years ago) link

it's been on and he missed out then too.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:01 (nineteen years ago) link

strangely, no depeche mode.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:03 (nineteen years ago) link

This programme just seems like a variant on the Top Ten series crucially lacking the irreverent humour of the latter.
Sure there are lots of inaccuracies and questionable nominations, but they also keep plugging the fact that there are more series to come in subsequent years, so I guess they'll get round to covering the Pet Shop Boys et al later on.

And what about their 'automatically included' hall of fame artists? A patchy and staggeringly overrated singles band like U2, but not the Rolling Stones?

― M Carty (mj_c), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:14 (nineteen years ago) link

no ABC either

― lukey (Lukey G), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah the 'automatically included' thing annoyed the hell out of me. Why don't the Beatles have to justify their place, let alone U2?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Also in the Dr Dre segment last week they managed not to make any mention of The Chronic or of his solo career whatsoever. That kind of beggars belief...

― M Carty (mj_c), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Why don't the Beatles have to justify their place, let alone U2?

So you don't have to sit through another documentary piece about the Beatles/U2?

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Surely New Order should have been in the place of Joy Division.

― Jez (Jez), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:49 (nineteen years ago) link

i didnt see the 90s one but i'm guessing the 10 noms were:

Oasis
Blur
Pulp
Prodigy
Kylie
Spice Girls
Take That
Dr Dre
Nirvana
Radiohead

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 18 October 2004 08:54 (nineteen years ago) link

does any of this matter?

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 October 2004 09:05 (nineteen years ago) link

of course not

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:11 (nineteen years ago) link

So you don't have to sit through another documentary piece about the Beatles/U2?

Good Point. I'd rather just not let them in at all, so no documentaries.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Arguably the biggest 1980s artist on both sides of the Atlantic - Madonna - was not even mentioned.

― Robert Moore (treble), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow!

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Madonna was automatically included, I thought.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:52 (nineteen years ago) link

How so? Are some people given an automatic exemption from the voting malarkey?

― Robert Moore (treble), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh OK, I've just seen your bit at the top

― Robert Moore (treble), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I have been automatically excluded from giving a toss.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:56 (nineteen years ago) link

This is a very prestigious hall of fame! You must give it your attention.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 October 2004 09:58 (nineteen years ago) link

I just wish they'd throw in some opposing viewpoints instead of each film being "this band is the best band and everyone else sucks". So reductive. As if the Great British Public can't weigh up the evidence for themselves. That said, the GBP did make Jools Holland the 15th greatest jazz musician of all time in a previous poll. Erk!
Classic moments - Mel C calling Anthony Keidis a poet and Graham Coxon providing far more eloquent anti-Blur dissent than Noel Gallagher.
Didn't see last night's one. No Husker Du? Replacements? Sonic Youth?
Fall? I can but wish.

― Stew S (stew s), Monday, 18 October 2004 10:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Nitpicking here, but Wanabee was definitely number one in July '96 - and was played on the radio quite a bit in June too.

A show like this was bound to be a bit rubbish though.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Monday, 18 October 2004 10:33 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.everyhit.com/searchsec.php

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Monday, 18 October 2004 10:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Where were the Cocteaus! Philistines...

― metalmickey, Monday, 18 October 2004 10:45 (nineteen years ago) link

it's not that kind of hall of fame

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 18 October 2004 10:49 (nineteen years ago) link

It's more a 'corridor of "everyone's heared of them" '

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 October 2004 11:55 (nineteen years ago) link

My favoutire bit was Minnie Driver enthusing about the Boss and saying how blown away she was when 'Born To Run' first came out. She would have been, what, all of three and a half or so at the time?

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:05 (nineteen years ago) link

she's actually 74

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:08 (nineteen years ago) link

it's odd that springsteen's fame / stadium period is recognised rather than his 70's beginnings. if that's the case, rem should be in for the 90's not the 80's

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:11 (nineteen years ago) link

This programme is a big pile of horseshit for people who don't like music.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:16 (nineteen years ago) link

She'd have been five. It's possible, Amber got 'blown away' by Kate Bush (wuthering Heights) when she was three.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link

i was blown away by kraftwerk's autobahn and i was 6.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I was mad keen on Racey and BA Robertson at that age. Maybe they'll be on next week's programme?

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 18 October 2004 12:32 (nineteen years ago) link

"Nitpicking here, but Wanabee was definitely number one in July '96 - and was played on the radio quite a bit in June too."

Yeah, you're right actually, I should have checked. But I still don't think they meant 1996 on the programme - they'd already gone through half of their career.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Last night's show was full of nonsensical imbecilic quotes:

On Michael Jackson: "He was the closest to a Jesus we've had in this age" (Scoop Jackson,

On Jackson again: ""Thriller" changed the world" (Nile Rodgers, musician)

On Bruce Springsteen: "Arguably the greatest rock star the world has ever known" (Jamie Theakston, arsehole)

On Michael Stipe: "He has become one of the most recognisable and charismatic rock stars in the world" (Anon., hack "will this do?" scriptwriter)

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:24 (nineteen years ago) link

The correct answers of course being:
a) Marti Pellow;
b) Jive Bunny ("Swing The Mood" changed the world);
c) John Zorn;
d) Jimmy The Hoover.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 October 2004 14:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Since when was Jesus a kiddy fiddler?

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link

"Suffer the little children to come unto me...."

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:31 (nineteen years ago) link

I spent this entire show thinking: they're not going to mention Prince, they're not going to mention Prince, they're not going to mention Prince. But he was on last and is the obvious winner.

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:31 (nineteen years ago) link

yeh it got me thinking about he's technically better than Jacko in every department apart from dancing (but even then the margin isn't that wide) but somehow surely Jacko just HAS to win

i don't get what the deal is tho - pick one only and the others never get into the Corridor Of Debatable Awesomeness at all?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

They also said how Prince got into an unprecedented battle to leave his record label, when early they'd already talked at great length about George Michael also battling to leave his record label at exactly the same time.

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Prince did it before George Michael, let's be honest, he did everything before George Michael. I wouldn't mind if Jacko won it but Prince just seems to be so much more to be the embodiment of the decade.

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:57 (nineteen years ago) link

Of the nominees I'd most like to see Joy Division win, but I could never claim they were "the embodiment of the decade".

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:59 (nineteen years ago) link

One album and one single in 1980? Joy Division AND New Order perhaps.

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Monday, 18 October 2004 15:02 (nineteen years ago) link

My mum wouldn't know Michael Stipe from Michael Praed so he's hardly one of the most recognisable rock stars in the world.

Also Springsteen has not been particularly successful commercially outside America with the exception of Born In The USA so that statement is also fallacious.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Predictions for upcoming decades

70s = Bowie or Stevie Wonder
60s = Dylan
50s = Chuck Berry?

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:13 (nineteen years ago) link

nah stevie wonder wont win, hes more known for his less good 80s work.

why cant british tv have better music programmes? i dont want to see any more bullshitty list-oriented programmes. id rather have the word, or the white room, or the tube.

― DVD (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:18 (nineteen years ago) link

nah stevie wonder wont win, hes more known for his less good 80s work.

Of course he isn't!

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:20 (nineteen years ago) link

First Stevie Wonder song which my mum can think of: the one she calls "I Disco To Say I Love You."

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:24 (nineteen years ago) link

i am choosing not to interpret DVD's tone as sarcastic and whole-heartedly agree. they should bring back The Beat Club as well (little known BBC CHOICE live music show - featuring Dakar & Grinser live amongst Stereolab videos and best of all NO PRESENTER)

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:29 (nineteen years ago) link

70s: Abba
60s: Stones
50s: Cliff?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:30 (nineteen years ago) link

im totally serious, the word was brilliant youth/music tv programming compared to the bland insipid insulting shite on TV these days. those pretty young idiots who present TOTP need to be punched.

and only genuine music lovers know stevies 70s work more than his 80s sap, its sadly true.

― DVD (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:45 (nineteen years ago) link

SW had like what, 2 hits in the 80s?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:46 (nineteen years ago) link

and both dwarf everything he did in the 70s in the eyes of 90% of the world!

― DVD (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:47 (nineteen years ago) link

i remember liking 'Skeletons' as a kid - don't think it charted highly tho

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:48 (nineteen years ago) link

I heard great things about the Beat Club but never saw it, as it was on in the days when nobody had BBC Choice. It was produced by Glasgow indie guru Duglas T Stewart (of BMX Bandits), who seems a top bloke. Some of you might remember his appearances as Scottish Sporranspondent (arf!) on Mark & Lard's sorely missed night time radio 1 show.
C'mon BBC Scotland, give him some wedge and a production team!

― Stew S (stew s), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Stevie Wonder have 15 Top 30 hits in the 1970s as opposed to 9 in the 1980s. Admittedly 7 of the 80s hits were Top 10, only 5 were Top 10 in the 70s. Album info is harder to come by but, let's face it, Stevie Wonder was hardly an obscure cult figure in 1970s!

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:54 (nineteen years ago) link

He had 6 UK hit albums in the 70s.

Also six in the 80s, though they didn't hang around in the charts as long, 1980's Hotter Than July excepted.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 10:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Albums:
Talking Book (Feb 1973) - #16
Innervisions (Sep 1973) - #8
Fullfillingness' First Finale (Aug 1974) - #5
Songs In The Key Of Life (Oct 1976) - #2
Journey Through The Secret Life Of Plants (Nov 1979) - #8

Hotter Than July (Nov 1980) - #2
Original Musiquarium 1 (May 1982) - #8
Woman In Red (OST) (Sep 1984) - #2
In Square Circle (Sep 1985) - #5
Characters (Nov 1987) - #33

Curiously, "Music Of My Mind" doesn't appear to have charted at all!

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Rockist Dadaismus is leaving out Greatest Hits collections from both decades.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:01 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought about including them but neither of them did very well

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:03 (nineteen years ago) link

hmmmm, maybe its a UK thing (or a sign of my age, i was born in 79), but over here, apart from the obvious tracks like superstitiion, people seem to remember stevie most for his 80s hits. its sort of like the way people know david bowie best for his lets dance era. in the 80s, both stevie and DB became megastars as opposed to just stars in music.

*prepares to get shot down*

― DVD (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Wonder recorded a track with Jackson called 'Get It' around '87 iirc. why was it not a hit? (don't say because it was shit, this is hardly a parameter affecting hit status in any shape or form)

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:03 (nineteen years ago) link

it just struck me as very strange that two of the most adored male artists of the time would release a duet and it wouldn't be a big hit. that wouldn't happen now would it (regardless of the quality of the song)?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:05 (nineteen years ago) link

which in turn has reminded me of the whole bizarreness of Jackson, Madonna and Prince never collaborating - I suppose they (inc. the labels) all feared/resented the inevitable ego clash?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:06 (nineteen years ago) link

I imagine neither Jackson and Prince would not countenance working with a second-rate hoofer who can't sing

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:07 (nineteen years ago) link

stevie and MJ did two duets, one on the bad album, one on the characters album. i dont know why they werent hits - just good friends wasnt released as a single, i dont know about the other one. MJ was having huge hits at the time, stevie was doing fine, was it definitely a single?

― DVD (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:08 (nineteen years ago) link

i bet they both wanted to do her tho (and her them)

xpost

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Big bucks for sure. Jackson was suppose to be working with Kraftwerk at one point?

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Madonna and Prince never collaborating

Check "this is not a love song" off one of madge's albums. Also, she worked with Jackson on a putative (what does that word mean?) umm, track called "in the closet" which was eventually scrapped for a different 'in the closet'

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:10 (nineteen years ago) link

'The goddam bitch is mine'

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:11 (nineteen years ago) link

The real question is surely why hasn't Paul McCartney recorded a crap duet with Madonna to complete the set

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:11 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post- prince and madonne made the quite brilliant love song in 1989 on the like a prayer album. prince also supposedly played guitar on the bside act of contribution. prince was meant to duet on bad with MJ but he said he was against singing 'your butt is mine'.

― DVD (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:13 (nineteen years ago) link

"The goddam toddler is mine"

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:14 (nineteen years ago) link

The real question is surely why hasn't Paul McCartney recorded a crap duet with Madonna to complete the set

A cover of 'Lady Madonna', with Lourdes and Rocco on guest vocals.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:19 (nineteen years ago) link

With "Parklife" style mockney dialogue by Guy Ritchie

― Serghei Daduismus (Dada), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Quite why this hasn't happened I cannot fathom.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:21 (nineteen years ago) link

because the wrongness quota was already reached with the little rap in 'American Life' and Macca's latest single respectively

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Stevie Wonder had a considerably bigger duet hit in the late '80s with Julio Iglesias - the gloopy MoR of "My Love." His own commercial status was waning, which was a shame because Characters is an underrated album and something like a return to his old form.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:36 (nineteen years ago) link

(bear in mind that this was a period where it was practically illegal to have a number one single in Britain unless you were Kylie or Jason or Jive Bunny)

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Or preferably all three.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:41 (nineteen years ago) link

(why did Jive Bunny never do a duet with anyone?)

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:42 (nineteen years ago) link

the scag made him hostile and untrusting of others

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Are you saying Jive Bunny chased the dragon and got smacked?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 11:58 (nineteen years ago) link

well that sort of far-fetched scenario would be enough to drive anyone to heroin wouldn't it

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:03 (nineteen years ago) link

You can jive a bunny to smack but you can't make him shoot up.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link

In a mildly unrelated thing, I read that Minnie Driver was part of a trio, called "Smoke, Rocks and Brown" i mean, WTF?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:30 (nineteen years ago) link

The Bruce Springsteen segment was all about how great he was in the 70's and then Henry Rollins saying that he was mass-merch packaged when Born in the USA came out.

And my wife and I both finished Minnie Drvier's sentence for her when she said, "When that album came out, I was so _____." ("young"|"seven")

what a horrible show.

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I saw the last half hour. Of course it's a shit programme, it's on Channel 4, a channel that's gone so downmarket that Burberry wouldn't advertise on it.

All this being said, the correct answer is so clearly Prince that it doesn't need thinking about.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Pre-'In The Closet', MJ liked to refer to Madonna as a "heiffer" who couldn't sing and danced okay. He also got rejected by Prince for 2 duets - one sharing vocals on 'We Are The World' and then Bad as mentioned upthread. Apparently, MJ wanted to play an "are they friends or enemies" publicity game with Prince in on it and then releasing the duet song/video (with song-and-dance-offs present). Prince wasn't up for it even when Quincy set up a couple of meetings between them where they just had stare-offs instead.

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 09:51 (nineteen years ago) link

supposedly quincy was also trying to get MJ to look at prince's workrate to inspire him to work quicker. he thought some of that might rub off from prince onto MJ.

― splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 09:54 (nineteen years ago) link

"Can you imagine me doing a song like ['Jack U Off']?"

"Not really, Michael."

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 10:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Apparently, Prince brought "voodoo charms" to one of their meetings.

BTW, is it too late for me to call Madonna a 2nd-rate heiffer?

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 10:02 (nineteen years ago) link

might rub off from prince onto MJ

i saw that out of context and now i've got a really vivid and not entirely pleasant mental image. the juxtaposition with the word "splooge" hasn't helped either. eew.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:48 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...

So, the answers are in:

Blah, blah, blah fluff piece from BBCOnline

To summarise though:

90s - Robbie Williams
80s - Michael Jackson
70s - Queen
60s - Rolling Stones
50s - Cliff Richard

The words "as voted for by the sort of people who vote in these things" springs to mind, although the 10 they had to choose from in each decade were uninspired mostly.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:00 (nineteen years ago) link

stupid fucking country

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Christ, that is horrific. Queen for the 70s?!!?!?!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Robbie Williams and Cliff Richard - bookends or what?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Cliff is far more tolerable - what is Cliff's actual ratio of good songs to bad songs do you think?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Very low I'd say. Not that he didn't have a few.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:07 (nineteen years ago) link

They're all fucking pantomime acts.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:10 (nineteen years ago) link

And I don't mean they're shafting donkeys.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Well it is wacky old "He's behind you! Where? There!" Britain voting

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:11 (nineteen years ago) link

i know it's the most cliched thing ever (apart from the man himself) to moan about how over-rated Robbie Williams is in this country, but still - WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU BRITAINLAND?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:11 (nineteen years ago) link

We like a trouper, Gawd bless 'em. Queen Mother came down 'ere during the Blitz. Nice cup o' Rosie Lee, luv?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Britain loves losers, can't handle genuinely talented people as winners, shockah

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:15 (nineteen years ago) link

This is the country where Michael Barrymore and Ant & Dec have been described, at one point or another, as "national treasures"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I think Cliff is possibly the closest to being right, although quite how seriously you can take a 50s poll that excludes Hank Williams as a voting option is another matter.

Actually, scratch that - I just checked his official discography and there's only 5 singles and two album of (mainly) covers in the 50s. Aside from "Move It", the singles are pretty patchy. I had always assumed "Lucky Lips" was earlier than 1963.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Hate to be rockist here, but shoulda been Chuck Berrry

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:20 (nineteen years ago) link

That's a funny way to spell Karlheinz Stockhausen.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 12 November 2004 13:24 (nineteen years ago) link

The winners do all get interred in some sort of mausoleum as part of the ceremony though don't they? That might explain the voting.

Nice to see our Cliff beat off all nine septics for his place. Colostomy bag and all.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:25 (nineteen years ago) link

HE WAS WAITING FOR A TUBE AT MILE END THE MONEY WAS ONLY RESTING IN HIS ACCOUNT

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 12 November 2004 13:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Eh? He certainly caught a tube up one end I hear.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Chuck Stockhausen OR Karlheinz Berry - it's an injustice, I tell ya

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:29 (nineteen years ago) link

their recently unearthed collaboration is a gem

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:31 (nineteen years ago) link

I see nobody is debating the Rolling Stones for the 60s. And quite right too. Mad not to have given them an automatic, along with the Beatles.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:34 (nineteen years ago) link

The Rolling Stones? That's a strange way of spelling John Coltrane.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 12 November 2004 13:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I think Cliff is possibly the closest to being right, although quite how seriously you can take a 50s poll that excludes Hank Williams as a voting option is another matter.
Actually, scratch that - I just checked his official discography and there's only 5 singles and two album of (mainly) covers in the 50s. Aside from "Move It", the singles are pretty patchy. I had always assumed "Lucky Lips" was earlier than 1963.
-- aldo_cowpat (aldo.cowpa...) (webmail), November 12th, 2004. (link)

Hey, if Robbie Williams had been put in the fifties' category, he'd have won that!

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:35 (nineteen years ago) link

James Brown influence arguably as great if not greater - guess he didn't sell as many records tho

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Fill this in:

"Wow, xxx won the xx'ties? That's a real surprise!"

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:36 (nineteen years ago) link

It was a toss up between U2 and Keiji Haino for the 90s, a moody old twat dressed in black with rock 'n' roll shades and Bono

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link

If Robbie Williams' dad had been put in the 50s category, he'd have won it.

But that says more about YER AVERAGE MUG PUNTER than anything else, I think.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:38 (nineteen years ago) link

If Robbie Williams had been put in the "Best England Footballer Of Last 100 Years" category he would have won.

Bizarrely, James Brown has only ever had one top ten single in Britain - "Living In America."

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 12 November 2004 13:39 (nineteen years ago) link

And in the sixties, he had a hit with "It's a daft daft daft world".

Or was that the other James Brown?

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:40 (nineteen years ago) link

December 25th, the day Britland celebrates the birth of our Lord Robbie Christliams

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:41 (nineteen years ago) link

"All hail to he who was born to be King"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:44 (nineteen years ago) link

"We all sit and wait.."

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 12 November 2004 13:45 (nineteen years ago) link

"It's A Daft Daft Daft World" by the same James Brown only got to #13.

In contrast, during the '60s Val Doonican and the Bachelors had about a dozen top ten hits apiece.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 12 November 2004 14:00 (nineteen years ago) link

so Britain was rubbish then as well? wow

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 14:07 (nineteen years ago) link

We've always been rubbish, Gawd bless us, have a cup o' Rosie Lee luv.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 12 November 2004 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

fankoo guvnor, ere yoo got a funny accent where yoo from then?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 14:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Coar bloimey mayte wirr in a roight tao an eyght, aint we Murry Pappins?

― Dick van Dyke Parks, Friday, 12 November 2004 14:37 (nineteen years ago) link

On the one hand, finding fault with any list seems a little futile. Better to work out what the list is, i.e., how it was made. In this case, it's no more or less than a product of the Hall Of Fame Steering Group, viz.:

Sir George Martin Music Producer

Emily Eavis Glastonbury Festival Organiser

Trevor Nelson Broadcaster/ Presenter

Conor McNicholas Editor of NME

Keith Harris MD of Keith Harris Music Ltd - Music Industry Manager and Consultant

Paul Gambaccini Broadcaster and Music Historian

Nick Philips Chairman, Warner Music UK Ltd

Alison Wenham Chairman and Chief Executive, Aim Ltd

Jo Whiley Broadcaster and Music Fan

Tony Wilson Independent Record Company Boss and TV Journalist

Tim Clark Director, IE Music

Tim Bowen Chairman, BMG Music Publishing

Lucian Grainge Chairman, Universal Music

Graham Pullen Head of Special Events, Clear Channel

Simon Wright Chief Executive, Virgin Entertainment Group International

Alex James Artist

Jill Sinclair CEO, SPZ Group

Rob Stringer Managing Director, Sony Music UK

Moira Bellas Managing Director of MBC PR

Mark Ellen Editor of Word Magazine

Dave Stewart Artist, Writer, Producer

Tony Wadsworth Chairman and CEO, EMI Music UK and Ireland

Doug Morris Chairman and CEO, Universal Music

Bernard Doherty Music Publicist

On the other hand, it can be fun to watch people talking nonsense. Here are some real fatuities from the '90s programme [from here]:

We will never see the like of the Spice Girls again.

Booking the Albert Hall was a risk no-one but Robbie Williams could have pulled off.

Music will never be the same since Kurt Cobain died.

Robbie Williams singlehandedly revived the swing genre.

Keith Flynt singing "Firestarter" is an image that will be forever frozen in our minds.

Every man wants to be Robbie and every woman wants to shag him.

Nirvana killed metal.

"Angels" hit a note with everybody.

The Prodigy took rave out of the fields and into the chart.

No-one has sold more albums or newspapers than Robbie Williams.

― Acme (acme), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I find it touching that they managed to slip one black person into the 5 Automatic Entrants list. Not that black people have made much of a contribution to popular music, mind.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 18 November 2004 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Jo Whiley Broadcaster and Music Fan

Nice that they had one music fan on the list...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 18 November 2004 11:30 (nineteen years ago) link

i wish i could be a fan of music enough to be able to declare it as an occupation

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 18 November 2004 12:28 (nineteen years ago) link

i suppose one should remember that this is called a Hall of Fame and not a Hall Of Talent, Ability or Vision. the latter would make a fantastic TV programme but nobody would vote in or watch it.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 18 November 2004 12:30 (nineteen years ago) link

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