Ministry "With Sympathy" C/D

What I want is a copy of "every day is halloween". Lost mine ages ago.

Well, that's not entirely true. There's an early singles compilation (featuring similar fare as "Everyday is Halloween", "Cold Life" and "All Day" etc.) and Twitch (which was sort've the middle point between their dance-pop stuff and their aggro-industrial stuff).

Where would those fit in on _With Sympathy_? None of them fit the mid-80s synthpop paradigm that album operates under (much like all of the other songs on those two releases).

Surely you mean Idiocy.

Why is this surprising to you?

RULES!

WTF

"she's got a cause"!!!

6. What He Say

i've seen many countries
argue about human lives
but one thing that stays the same is
the clubs are always full at night

pick out any far-out place
like kenya or swaziland
doesn't matter what the place
they'll still be dancing to the band

(mumble mumble jumble)
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble)
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble) what he say?
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble) what he say?
(garble warble farble) let's dance!

say you've found a homeland? (move to it, move to it)
say you've found a clubland? (get to it, get to it)
now you've got a song? (groove to it, groove to it)
got to find a partner (just get to it, get to it)

(mumble mumble jumble)
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble)
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble) what he say?
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble) what he say?
(garble warble farble) let's dance!

let's dance!

i've seen many a race of people
argue many things before
but there is one language that
gets you understood for sure

not a language of the mouth
it's only for the feet
grab a russian by the hands
and he will feel the need
that's right!

(mumble mumble jumble)
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble)
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble) what he say?
(garble warble farble)
(mumble mumble jumble) what he say?
(garble warble farble) let's dance!

let's dance!

this redeems yer many stylistic transgressions, mr. miccio! :-)

several other thoughts: (a) amg's entry -- saying that this CD would surely be one of the favorites of ally sheedy in the breakfast club is 100 OTM%; (b) "cocaine [or is it heroin?] is one helluva drug;" (c) there are some rather interesting parallels b/w the ministry and depeche mode (both start out making lightweight yet likeable synth-pop, and get MUCH darker and nastier as they go on ["heroin is one helluva drug"]; (d) with sympathy is pretty similar to the tom tom club!

An audio recording of this show exists.

!!!!!!!!

and it looks like they did a fad gadget cover ("ricky's hand")!!

Words cannot express how much this statement creeps me the fuck out. How young are you?

this?

http://members.aol.com/NaylzIX/alain-3a.gif

or this?

http://koti.mbnet.fi/mode2001/on%20the%20shower.jpg

http://ministrymusic.org/mags/other/trouser-press-march-1983.jpg

give me this over any ministry post 1992.

damn, can't find the work for love review from smash hits. it must've hit that great paper recycler a long time ago. damn.

Alan, you mean. ;-)

Anyway, back to the flamin', funkin' Ministry.

A cougar is more like a kitten than it is like a velociraptor but that doesn't mean it would make an appropriate pet for a four-year-old.

GOTHFIGHT!

Alan, you mean.

Och! You're right. Wait, who is Martin Wilder?

NOIZE DAD!

Bring
it
on

also, i'm surprised no one mentioned the red cassette case. it was always the easiest tapes to find in the box.

Isn't it "IN through the window...."?

also, the chick who comes in during "i wanted to tell her" is so freakin 80s. that nasal-ly "you touch me bay-bee" would fit perfectly on an expose album.

Classic, of course.

TKK opening for Ministry would be wonderful, though I saw TKK open for Siouxsie et al around '92, and that was pretty cool.

Hm. What ever happened to Machines of Loving Grace? I saw them open for TKK at Shitty Gardens in maybe '93 or '94 now that I think of it.

http://www.police.cybercomm.nl/pictures/s19830723.jpg

I finally picked up a bunch of the Ministry stuff that Wax Trax was selling, after this show, including the Special Affect LP.

i'm not an F-A-G

Some of my friends went to see them tonight. I kinda wish I had gone, I listened to them a lot when I was younger.

Still a brilliant record.

their best moment!

i'm not an F-A-G

never occurred to me that it could be heard that way but you are right

A cougar is more like a kitten than it is like a velociraptor but that doesn't mean it would make an appropriate pet for a four-year-old.

-- The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:42 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

heh

http://cdn.channel.aol.com/amgmusic/artists/pic200/drp000/p082/p08248g85s1.jpg

the corridor, yes the corridor

YES THE CORRIDOR

FAR BELOW, FAR BELOW, FAR BELOW IS THE PLACE YOU'LL GO, HO!

i'm loving al jourgeson's adam ant haircut/earring.

Whatever happened to the Other Guy in Ministry circa With Sympathy?

Al was on a VH1 Classic show ("Hangin' With", I think) where he was playing videos by his band and bands that he liked, and he actually played the above video, so I guess he's at peace with his hilarious past.

You're assuming that he wasn't hilarious after that.

Yes, but he was hilarious in a different way.

[cue Butthead's impression from the "NWO" video]

this fuckin record

so great

really?! must investigate.

You've got to work for your new role as the Boston Globe business editor

CLASSIC!

Is it wrong that I actually prefer this album to everything that Jourgensen did afterwards? Taken on its own terms, I think this is a wonderful record. Not only does it slot in nicely with early '80s UK synthpop, it actually manages to hold its own in comparison to the best of the stuff that was happening in the genre at that time. Wonderful stuff.

I don't think it's a particularly surprising opinion to have; the collection of songs he put together on that package exist in a universe almost directly orthogonal to every other release he put out

(that said, #TeamTwitch all day every day; IMO that is a superlative album)

Falls after the first half

xpost:

Yeah, I like Twitch too, but With Sympathy is one of those records I always find myself returning to!

WHAT HE SAY!?

LET'S DANCE!

*totally fucking absurd synth-trumpet breakdown section*

it's alright, but I can't get with anyone hwo thinks it's superior to either twitch or A Mind... both of which seem more groundbreaking and involving.

Falls after the first half

― brimstead, Monday, October 26, 2015 8:48 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh, the first half of the album is wonderful, but I love 'Here We Go', 'Say You're Sorry' and particularly 'She's Got a Cause'

it's not groundbreaking but the songs (mostly) are just so great. twitch will always be my ultimate ministry album but "work for love" (as it will always be known to me and most euro-ministry fans) is pretty much my definition of perfect pop.

Great surprise to see Yvonne Gage in Shay Jones' role, three years after she made "Garden of Eve," one of the best boogie records.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOD5pxdZiyo

The thing about Twitch is that I can still detect some UK electro influence in it, particularly Fad Gadget.

I was surprised to learn that Flood worked on With Sympathy, actually... this surely must have been one of the earliest album he worked on, although not as a producer?

hoo boy, classic

can't tell you how unsurprised i am to see djp in this thread

Doesn't Flood have a credit on the first New Order record?

Certainly Filth Pig is a bigger stain on the Ministry catalog than With Sympathy...

otm

Flood worked on a load of things before this. And yes, he did engineering on 'Movement'.

I saw Ministry in Toronto last week (first time since 1991). It was great fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYfH_vSGO1M

You did it again
You did it again
You did it again and again and again
Ho ho!

Certainly Filth Pig is a bigger stain on the Ministry catalog than With Sympathy...

I've never listened to With Sympathy, but I listened to Filth Pig (and Dark Side of the Spoon) for the first time yesterday, and FP is...kind of good. It's not an "industrial" or "industrial metal" album; it's more like a noise-rock album. The way the guitars and drums are mixed, it's closer to Unsane or a band on Amphetamine Reptile than anything else Al's ever done. I can understand why people don't like it - it's really ugly sounding and kind of monochromatic compared with their previous albums, and the songs are often longer than they need to be (six minutes when they should have been four), but more of it works, on its own terms, than I expected.

Spoon is ugly, too; it sounds like it was recorded through a boombox's condenser mic. But there are some weird and compelling tracks on it - the closing piece, "10/10," features an extended Charles Mingus sample that I didn't see coming.

I listen to Mind all the time.

"six minutes when they should have been four" describes almost every Ministry song recorded since A Mind...

xxp I also listened to Filth Pig for the first time quite recently (after avoiding it for years because everyone says it's shit) and I completely agree with you - do I like it as much as their 80s stuff, no, but it's really not bad at all, and your AmRep comparison makes sense. but I also agree about the songs being a bit long.

that said I also like With Sympathy! and I don't hate what I've listened to of post Filth Pig. I guess there isn't much Ministry I don't like... not that I've heard anything released after 2004

https://sonicmoremusic.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/ministry-1983.jpg

https://sonicmoremusic.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/ministry-1983.jpg

Always loved this press photo circa the With Sympathy era.

Yeah, surprised anyone would still trot out Filth Pig as a low point. Maybe ahead of their fan base with that one. Sludge/noise rock turn and they did it pretty well imo.

In Case You Didn't Feel Like Showing Up is still the prime Ministry record for me

Al seems to have made his peace with it, or really needs the $s?

https://ministryband.bandcamp.com/album/chicago-1982

There's been the odd thing here and there that would suggest that Al sees the album in a more positive light these days, but I don't think he's ever come out and said it.

they played some of this stuff at their recent live show in conjunction with the documentary premiere, but people I talked to who went said they didn't seem happy to be playing it?

They didn't play anything off this, or even off "Twitch". The nearest they got was an acoustic "Everyday is Halloween". Also, at least at the show i was at, Al seemed to be having the time of his life to the point that I can imagine him revisting even earlier stuff.

Yeah, the recent Wax Trax documentary-pegged shows were all Land of Rape and Honey/The Mind.../Psalm 69 material (none of which was on Wax Trax). Plus "covers" of Revolting Cocks' "No Devotion" and 1000 Homo DJs' "Supernaut" (which Ministry was playing live when I saw them in 2005 or so).

LET'S DANCE!

Make MINISTRY synthpop again. pic.twitter.com/pgLkORluKu

— Juan David (@jdmartinezq) July 17, 2016

So per an FB post from my friend Lyndsey Parker, who writes for Yahoo Entertainment:

OK, you guys. Deep breaths, deep breaths. So... this just happened.
I SPOKE TO MINISTRY'S AL JOURGENSEN FOR *AN HOUR* for Yahoo Entertainment, JUST ABOUT THE 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF 'WITH SYMPATHY,' AND HE *EXCLUSIVELY* REVEALED PLANS TO RE-RECORD SEVERAL OF THE ALBUM'S SONGS.
No, today is not April 1st. This is real. He said this all to me on video, which you can watch, seeming in a surprisingly good mood -- while I sat there in my 'With Sympathy' T-shirt, while holding my original vinyl copy of the 'With Sympathy' album, while trying not to cry or faint, like my usual zero-chill self.
Al is literally in the studio TODAY recutting "Revenge," and he hopes to play that one live. He is also considering doing an "Early Ministry Tour" and/or releasing a newly recorded 'With Sympathy" -- (Al's Version), if you will. How is this life.
Please spread the word because I don't know if I have ever been so excited to hit "publish" on a story.

And said story:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ministrys-al-jourgensen-to-rerecord-disavowed-with-sympathy-songs-183544523.html

He's been softening his stance for a while now — there's a WS themed shirt for sale on the band's site.

https://ministryofficial.store/product/22884/with-sympathy-grid-logo-t-shirt-black

The Thompson Twins story (and the tribute band one) are two highlights in Lyndsey's piece.

Hell froze over....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYRCjN6oXgM

Do they still play anything from Twitch? Or "Halloween" at least? I am grimly curious how that would work

i don't think they have played anything from Twitch since circa 1986 but they did revive Halloween in 2019 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GW_Cukc34Q

This is all right? I prefer the original.

(Meaning “Revenge”, I’ve heard the redone “Halloween” and I absolutely hate it)

The muscle up front is into it. Kinda sounds like "Enter Sandman" to me.

it’s funny in “effigy” when al sings “me mum and me dad”

yup, the redone “Halloween” is pretty bad but "Revenge" is better than i expected. x post

He threatens to end Ministry with an industrial metal LP remake of With Sympathy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU6-uMVECRE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij1GeZGxhds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBQay8SYPhU

i posted this before but there was no response - with sympathy 2023 version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYRCjN6oXgM

i don't really follow al's life now and i know he has always said that he hated everything about that era/album but i wouldn't have been surprised if he had been playing those songs for years in the 21st century at casinos across the nation. better late than ever! twitch is my fave ministry album but in 1983 with sympathy was on my hit parade in a big way.

it takes him a while to get going but there is some good info in that long interview. i like that arista didn't want to have anything to do with some of his biggest songs. wax trax won big there. and then to hear how different things got in that 1986 interview. sire won big there.

I've always found the love for this record to be a mystery. I mean, it's...fine, as early '80s New Wave synth-funk goes, but everybody else (Human League, Wang Chung) did it better. Tell me you can listen to "I Wanted to Tell Her" without wishing you were listening to "(Keep Feeling) Fascination" instead. You're bullshittin'.

I'm more interested in the photo of Al laughing and smiling with Paul Barker from a few days ago than in the continual attempts to retcon this record (which retconning Al has finally decided to participate in, because if nothing else, the guy can smell a buck in someone's pocket from six blocks away). I like the photo because Al is all bandana and dreads and face tattoos and Paul looks like a college professor.

he's a little slow if he can smell a buck. people have been begging to hear these songs for years.

i mean he has to go see a with sympathy cover band to realize that people love those songs?

as far as why people love that album? nostalgia. and they have been new wave disco crowd pleasers since 1983. people are not craving wang chung at goth nite at clubs in the middle of nowhere in the 21st century.

its not like you can't listen to human league AND ministry. no need to choose. i've been listening to both for 40+ years.

nice t-shirt for Montana residents...

https://ministryofficial.store/product/25500/goddamn-white-trash-t-shirt-black

Wang Chung. Really?

tempted to get a Twitch shirt...

i have one.

i think side 1 of with Sympathy is up there for me with any early '80s New Wave synth stuff.

i totally love wang chung (i tell you 'ti na na' is such a fucking jam), but there's no way they're better than 'with sympathy', there's a funkiness to it on stuff like 'work for love' that not much other synthpop ever comes close to

i only really know the hits and their To Live and Die in L.A. soundtrack which i really dislike.

Haha, well I do like a lot of awful old shite tbf

i had never knowingly heard 'ti na na' before. i dig it!

i only really know the hits and their To Live and Die in L.A. soundtrack which i really dislike.

i think i missed an oxford comma here, or something. i like the hits but dislike the soundtrack.

from that interview above, looks like Al is really making it all up as he goes - i do not believe a single word of his recollection of the period

After only having heard Psalm and Dark Side Of The Spoon, I've been dipping in and out of the rest of Ministry's catalogue recently. Listening to the much-maligned Filth Pig right now and.... uh, what's wrong with this? It's kinda great? And not really as huge a departure from the Psalm 69 sound really. I'm pretty into it I must say

I hope he renames it With Shrimpathy or something. That would be the most Ministry thing to do.

Haha

or With Syphilis.

I haven’t tried to listen to Filth Pig in about 20 years but I also hated Psalm 69 so I don’t expect to find much to enjoy

filth pig is fine. probably the last one you need to hear? always liked the dylan cover.

The difference is that Psalm 69 was great and filth pig is shite. The fact that it might still be better than what came after, shows how low they sunk after the amazing run of Twitch to Psalm 69.

when filth pig came out i was living with a girlfriend who had an ex-roommate who didn't have a phone so people would call for her at our apartment. one of those people was Al. my girlfriend's friend was a very very big, uh, music fan. when she was younger she had followed Nelson around the country and then later...Collective Soul. we had fun listening to Al's unintelligible phone messages.

#this90smoment

This morning's listening confirms Dark Side Of The Spoon is a lot worse than Filth Pig

I've never understood what everyone's problem is with Filth Pig either. OK I do if you didn't like Psalm 69.

I've only listened to 3 post-Filth Pig albums and while none of them are great or even good, they all have a couple of songs I like on them.

Yeah, sounds great to me. Maybe it just wasn't right for the time?

I cannot work out whether this contemporaneous review is delighted or damning https://metalinjection.net/editorials/25-years-ago-today-ministry-released-filth-pig

never cared for anything much after "the mind is a terrible thing..." though Jesus Built My Hotrod was fun.