Great record, terrible drummer

I think you were mistaking Loveless for a Lita Ford record.

not that the rest of the band could play any better either.

HUGGY BEAR RULED

The third one is "Innervisions" -- Stevie's a good drummer, but that record really could have used a great one. The drums don't carry the grooves, they just ride them.

??? i'm assuming this is a joke...aerosmith has great rhythm especially in the 70s...shit if all Kramer did was drum that break beat on Walk This Way he'd deserve hall of fame status

When it comes to the Loveless-drums, as peter mentioned, you just can't compare it to the earlier stuff. On Loveless the drums are just basic and heavy, as to before when they were just all over the place and didn't fit with the rest of the band at all. Plus the quite shabby production.

Either Led Zeppelin 4 or Who's Next -- two albums that were amazing despite the substandard, damn-near-embarrassing drumming.

Anyone who considers "When The Levee Breaks" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" substandard simply can't be taken seriously. (Unless he's a jazz snob.)

Definitely.

Also the Turtles, Turtle Soup (if I'm remembering the title correctly; their last studio album): John Seiter was no John Barbata ...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE JOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On another note, I have to think really hard when someone asks me to recall a specific beat from any given Velvet Underground song. (Which is, like, five times a day.)

"But I'm in the middle of notating the solo from 'Down by the River', gimme a minute"

Todd Trainor...
Neil Peart...
Keith LeBlanc...
Buddy Rich...
George Hurley...

RHYTHM DEAF CUNTS!

This really surprises me. I thought the drummer is the whole point of Broadcast. Everything else including the vocals just kind of revolves around the drums.

I like Buddy Miles' drumming just fine - it's Buddy Miles' singing that I have problems with.

hey, wilful early-90s obscurism ahoy. just before britpop came along to fuck everything up for four years, there was a band called passion fruit and holy bread, who did a song called sky that would be the all-time shoegazing anthem were it not for the most laughable, godawful piece of drumming i've ever heard in my puff. honestly: it just kills it stone dead.

then they disappeared without trace. ho hum.

Michael Clarke of the Byrds was pretty sloppy. But those Byrds records are great despite it/because of it? I'm not sure and you know, I don't really care.

Whoa whoa whoa. I've learned to ignore most of the Radiohead bashing on ILM but you CANNOT be serious.

well, not exactly. they became Mover.

Colm's drumming makes that album, though.

Either Led Zeppelin 4 or Who's Next -- two albums that were amazing despite the substandard, damn-near-embarrassing drumming.

I've always been bothered by the all-over drumming on Jimi Hendrix albums, especially "Crosstown Traffic."

Radiohead to thread.

Neil Peart...

it's Buddy Miles' singing that I have problems with.

I don't think much of Keith Moon as a "drummer"

"Radiohead to thread."

WTF?!

I also agree with Sundar re: Keith Moon and John Bonham.

2. The Buckpets!!!!!!! Wow! I saw them open for Jane's Addiction once about 15 years ago, and I haven't thought about them since. Come to think of it, their song "Pearls" was kind of decent. I think I have their cassette buried in a box somewhere.

Yes, hilarious. But seriously, I never liked the Meat Puppets' drummer, he always seemed kind of a boring player compared to the Kirkwood boys.

the kingsmen's "louie, louie" owns this thread

My favourite drumming on a record ever!!!!!!!!!!

well, not exactly. they became Mover

ooh! did mover have a proper drummer?

Yup, White Stripes certainly count, too.

-- Dadaismus

FANTASTIC performance on the drums during the gtr solo! Reminds me of Drumbo from Beefheart's Magic Band. Practically avant-garde!

no way. ac/dc are the count basie orchestra, and phil rudd is jo jones.

(Same goes for "Be Here Now", which is a considerably less great album than "Morning Glory" though)

Also, "Crocodiles" by Echo & The Bunnymen (Echo was never an impressive drummer)

Nick Mason also dragged Pink Floyd down a few notches. He's a
solid timekeeper, so I have to give him that. But he's so limited,
so lacking in imagination. Maybe he was too busy hanging out at
the pub to learn a few fills, or a drum roll (there are none, except
for one track on the first album). I think he definitely dragged
the band down. Imagine what kind of exciting dynamic they could have
had with a imaginative drummer like Bill Bruford, John Bonham or Phil Collins.

Dream Syndicate and the Rain Parade could have been gods with
a great drummer.

Rain Parade - I really liked the guy who played on Emergency Third Rail Power Trip - Eddie Kalwa, was it? He has a good feel on tracks like This Can't Be Today and Talking In my Sleep.

Also he paid for/produced great records by Robert Wyatt, Lol Coxhill, Carla Bley etc. so I'll hear no ill spoken of him.

Of course, or else they would have fired him from the band much
earlier. The real question is, why did Pink Floyd require a
shitty drummer? Why didn't they demand a good drummer? Cause I've
only been playing drums for two years and I can play better than
Nick Mason.

_Fictitious Sports_ was good, though, I have to give props.
Better than most Floyd records, actually.

No, because he is very good at what he does.

Learning to beatmatch jungle wrought havoc on my enjoyment of live drummers. A recent Franz Ferdinand show springs to mind as one example where the tempos vacillated all over the place, within the same song, and not in some loose retro-hipster perfect-for-the -song fashion. Just in a youthful, unskilled, 'where did the tempo' go fashion. Ugh.

Most drummers who love Radiohead will still probably agree that the drumming is the weakest link. Which is not to say that he doesn't do a fine job, given the requirements of the band.

I will not tolerate any dissing of Mason here.

First of all, that video is from the Live At Pompeii movie and Mason himself bashes his performance on it because midway through, he loses a stick (additionally the movie crew lost the film reels of Gilmour, Waters, and Wright for that track and so all you see of "One Of These Days" is him losing the stick)

Anyway, Mason is exactly the drummer that PF needed - my proof is any live recording from the 1975 tour, especially the end of "Raving And Drooling"

i'll mention him; he used to be (circa '87-'90) absolutely terrifying. i saw sy three times in 1990, and each one he was totally channelling keith moon. ever since then he plays like someone dosed him with quaaludes. i can't think of a more dramatic example of a once-great drummer falling so far (not even moon himself).

Not me!

besides, drumming has changed over the years. it's become a bit more minimal. as much as i love keith moon or bonham, would they really sound right backing sufjan stevens, animal collective or the
microphones?

WTF R U Talking About

I think Keith Moon drumming with Animal Collective would sound pretty spot on, actually. Did you hear the cymbol crashes on "Grass"? GET ME TO A TIME MACHINE

http://www.comicsvf.com/scans/vocanc/whatifv1/22.jpg

I tend to doubt Clarke played on much of the Byrds stuff, especially the earlier recordings.

Steve Shelley really made SY's sound work for a long time, but when he stopped doing the Keith Moon constant rolls all the time, I really lost interest in their records.

I've always tend to thought that the drumming was a weak link in Blue Oyster Cult (that and too much keyboards on their later records).

It also seems a waste for ZZ Top to have some good tunes and waste their funky drummer having him play like a simple drum machine on Eliminator and their 80s synth recordings.

First of all, the crew obviously found the reels again, cause the complete performance is on YouTube. Losing a stick is the least sucky thing about his performance. His feel is terrible and his fills are sloppy as fuck. Maybe it was just a bad night. I always enjoyed his drumming on the albums. I'm all in favor of simple for-the-song drumming. Ralph Molina from Crazy Horse is one of my favorite drummers.

don't think he did, and when he did play on stuff, he hated it and was a dick about it (see: argument at the end of notorious byrd brothers bonus tracks)

David Crosby: "Michael, play drums right!"

Buddy miles is boring!

Battles drummer is amazing!

Often i find weak drumming can let down a track even though you dont realise its the drumming. Can make a track drag etc. much like a poor bassline.

"I've always tend to thought that the drumming was a weak link in Blue Oyster Cult (that and too much keyboards on their later records)."

Al Bouchard was a fucking great drummer. I agree with the paranthetical though.

OK, I'll be bonkers and say it.

"Night Train" by James Brown. James is drumming here, and is all over the place, bless him. I mean, it's still a fine track, and it's probably better for having him drumming on it, but hey.

nobody has mentioned "...and justice for all"??

I really like the 8th note feel on Night Train. It's kinda New Orleansy.

nobody has mentioned "...and justice for all"??

This has great drumming wtf?

Were you just watching the Metallica Shreds video, Tracer?

WAHT? The beat on Night Train is great!

the drumming killed that Delia and Gavin LP on DFA...

the steve shelley comments OTM upthread.

Jordan i guess lars hits all the beats (as well he should, i think the whole drum track is massively overdubbed? and he had to "learn it" when they went on tour?) but the tinny, weak-ass spoon-on-sheet-metal sound of all of it has been well documented - i would love to hear a remastered version

Steve Shelley is a great drummer, but I have sometimes thought they would have benefited from a more interesting, out-there drummer.

OTOH maybe he makes them more accessible.

i know, i know, but the sound never really bothered me. i don't really care if the parts are frankensteined together, at some point dude came up with all of those parts and fills and played them, and some of it is really inventive.

don't know if terrible but Ralph Molina

in some of Neil's songs, he is maybe too simple.

flagged post

there are so many fucked up posts on this thread i don't even know where to start

Steve Shelley circa 86-92 was the man

but by god did he (they) get boring after that

Is it him or is it the shitty drum SOUND on albums after 92?

metal box

Bob Bert was the master of the metal box.

lightning bolt
boredoms

haha wrong!

i always thought the drive like jehu records could've been even greater with a more pummeling drummer. a guy such as mac mcneilly or zach barocas would've made wonders for their sound, drums on most jehu songs are a bit too pedestrian and mechanical for my liking.

Tim Powles used to bug me a bit.
Makes me wonder how the Church would sound (now) with a punchier drummer.

Probably punchy ain't their point though, right? Yeah.

matt sorum on GNR. uninventive, awful timing, absolutely no swing. hate the guy.

Wow, hard for me to imagine "Yank Crime" being any better, though I guess the drums are the last part of the equation for me with that band (GUITARS!!! > Froberg's voice > tunes > everything else like the drummer). Would love for this band to make another album, which won't happen, but the idea of Mac McNeilly sure is an intriguing one.

Dirty Projectors ffs

imagine a drummer on par with those vicious, quasi virtuosic riffs by reis. a wet dream prob. i love the jehu but i've always felt the drumming was their weakest link (well, that and the fact froberg was a pretty sloppy gtr player but anyway)

I always thought the drums were fine, some cool parts (guy wasn't a BAD drummer, just not particularly special imo). Love Froberg's guitar playing, sloppy or no. Kept them from being too prog or virtuosic, which I think suited the feel of the music extremely well. Some of the rawness makes the band more vital, to me.

Dirty Projectors ffs

― Evan, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:24 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if you mean on the current record, yeah I think it could be a little better, although I like the record a lot and maybe it just didn't need cool drums

Actually I didn't mean the new one, I haven't heard it. I'm more familiar with Bitte Orca but I didn't think the new one would be much different in that respect.

There's no such thing as a great record with a terrible drummer

i like the drummer on bitte orca a lot

so bite me, dorka

This is amazing:

besides, drumming has changed over the years. it's become a bit more minimal. as much as i love keith moon or bonham, would they really sound right backing sufjan stevens, animal collective or the
microphones?

The microphones, truly the Led Zepplin of their day

hahaha how did i miss that post?? Keith Moon's Microphones would have been a barnstormer of a team-up, I would buy that.

Is it him or is it the shitty drum SOUND on albums after 92?

Well, Sister sounds like shit, drum-wise, but again he's all over a lot of those songs.

They just have less rock-out moments after Dirty, I'd say. And even in their wilder moments he's strangely muted.

When SY got relatively 'less' weird, they kept the volume and distortion. When they got rid of both, then what's the point?

Usually it's not an incompetent drummer that'll ruin a possibly great record but a drab one, or poor mic'ing. I've never given The Travelling Wilburys a chance b/c I just can't deal with having a hot unchanging snare -> DA-88 on every offbeat in my ear for half-an-hour

One drummer who would have gone well with Drive Like Jehu would be Orestes Morfin of Bitch Magnet, monster drummer.

Privately I've held that drummers with so-called "bad" time, though possibly insufferable in a live setting, are golden on a recording, speeding shit up and down or whatever like Palmolive, man I love that

XP - Orestes name was the first I thought of reading the Jehu posts too.

Is Steve West (Pavement) considered a poor drummer? I've never had a prob with him, anyone? (I love Gary Young's playing on the early records, but is he technically good? No clue here)

Whiney's right, there's no such thing as a great record with a terrible drummer.

In my opinion, Gary Young was a phenomenal drummer with decades of experience.

Steve West, in comparison, was a far lesser talent, with an inability to keep proper time or vary from that "shuffle" he always resorted to.

Again, this is merely my opinion. I loved these guys, and truly enjoyed that the always gave mad props to the Garden State.

uhhh as someone pretty new to this forum was everybody just devoted to incoherent contrarian stances back then??

pretty much yeah. i'm kind of glad the board is more argumentative than it used to be because people really get away with saying some bullshit back then.

Chris Franz is sort of the weakest link on every Talking Heads record, or at least the least distinctive player, but he suits the group just fine and certainly doesn't get in the way of their greatness.

I just figured assumed everyone in this thread was joking xp.

I feel that Chris Franz provides the worst moment on Stop Making Sense ("Genius of Love"), but yet somehow redeems himself as "Yella"...

Just my two cents...

i always thought the drive like jehu records could've been even greater with a more pummeling drummer. a guy such as mac mcneilly or zach barocas would've made wonders for their sound, drums on most jehu songs are a bit too pedestrian and mechanical for my liking.

― cock chirea, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:18 PM (1 month ago)

Ehh........... you guys are mad.

This is shitty youtube quality but I cannot disagree more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd0a1qtL2c8

Can't believe people are saying Anton Fier is a bad drummer

maybe they meant Anton Fig

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drum2/AntonFigMD.jpg

would be harsh on either

uhhh as someone pretty new to this forum was everybody just devoted to incoherent contrarian stances back then??

― no love spud webb (fadanuf4erybody), Friday, October 12, 2012 10:07 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pretty much yeah. i'm kind of glad the board is more argumentative than it used to be because people really get away with saying some bullshit back then.

― some dude, Friday, October 12, 2012 10:15 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this thread is unreal bad at the beginning, but almost every classic rock thread has a bunch of terrible challops from like 2001

Jefferson Airplane - Crown of Creation, but I think I've flogged that horse on here before.

And it's not really a universally acknowledged classic record anyway.

Also slightly tempted to challop the fuck out of the thread by saying Zen Arcade.

grant's no monster, though i feel his playing is kinda great in a way

It's very one note. You know exactly what's coming next

That can be great, but..

I know (from other discussions) that I'm the minority here, but I still think Robert Gotobed's motorik drumming is the weakest part of 70s Wire.

Also, shall we get the obligatory Helen Wiggin (The Shaggs) mention out of the way?

don't know if terrible but Ralph Molina

― nostormo, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:43 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is true. He's not good by any definition.

There are some amazing botched fills on the new crazy horse record

Molina is by far the best answer to this thread

xposts Phew that was less of a flaming-torch-carrying mob style reaction that I expected.
'Terrible drummer' would def be an overstatement but I find that the drum beats on songs like What's Going On and Turn On The News have a slightly clip-clop feel to them which mars the tunes a bit for me. It could well be down to how the drums are recorded as much as to the actual patterns Grant plays.
OTOH you could never say the drumming on Reoccuring Dreams is terrible.

Hart's Keith Moon-like aversion to hi-hats was a negative IMO

Love Ralph Molina, but haven't heard the new one yet. Can't think of a single song he's on that would be improved with a different drummer (and when other drummers play with Neil, they can't cut it on the Ralph/Crazy Horse songs).

I love Hart's drumming, but that might be cos I came to Husker Du as a hardcore band, and Hart's basically a hardcore drummer a lot of the time. That might be what you're hearing as clipclop....

any mogwai record

Love Ralph Molina, but haven't heard the new one yet. Can't think of a single song he's on that would be improved with a different drummer (and when other drummers play with Neil, they can't cut it on the Ralph/Crazy Horse songs).

― 5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:13 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I held this view, and kinda still do, but the 1989 Paramount Theater bootleg w/Neil Young & the Restless kinda made me doubt it

any mogwai record

THIS

the first couple Paradise Lost records

I held this view, and kinda still do, but the 1989 Paramount Theater bootleg w/Neil Young & the Restless kinda made me doubt it

Ha, that's exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that! I love that show, but Chad Cromwell on "Down By The River" really doesn't do it for me.

Crooked Rain->Wowee Zowee (the tracks that Malkmus isn't drumming on at least).

steve west is a incredibly boring drummer