Bob Marley : classic or dud?

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Surprisingly there isn't a thread on Bob. Yes, yes college stoners love him and they all own one album "Legend". I'm going to say classic. Discuss.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Thursday, 20 May 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Dud.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Thursday, 20 May 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

What, are you fucking kidding me? Classic, for Exodus alone.
That this thread exists baffles me.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

It's like an Elvis/Sinatra/Coltrane C or D thread; these guys personify classic.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 May 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer his earlier work.

(I always wanted to say that)

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 20 May 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I've honestly never met anyone around my own age who actively dislikes Bob Marley, and I don't think I can say that about any other musician ever.

― Josh Love (screamapillar), Thursday, 20 May 2004 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

He was a good songwriter and his band was really really amazing

I don't want anyone to know that I listen to him, though, obvs.

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Thursday, 20 May 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

The other day I was sitting in a friend's car drinking a 40 and listening to the radio and he was smoking out, trying to get me to but I was already too out of it so I wouldn't.. then Bob Marley came on the radio and he convinced me it was a Sign From God so I did which was probably a bad idea (see ilxors throwing up at shows thread)

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Thursday, 20 May 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic, though too often people tend to overstate his importance.
That bit gets pretty tiresome)

― rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 20 May 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

silly silly question. the reason this thread doesn't already exist is because it aint no question. classic.

― cedric hendrix, Thursday, 20 May 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.kaejae-worx.com/~don/videogame/tmnt/images/tmnt087.gif

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Thursday, 20 May 2004 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I so rarely choose to listen to Bob that, much like Elvis, Sinatra and Coltrane, I'm gonna say 'meh', which is somewhere in between.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 20 May 2004 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic. But he certainly didn't record the best reggae, far from it.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Thursday, 20 May 2004 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic.

African Herbsman
Live at the Record Plant

...and let's not forget about the Maytals

― christoff (christoff), Thursday, 20 May 2004 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

just cause you rarely listen to something dosnt really mean anything. also sick, apart from maybe sinatra (or possibly coltrane) the classic status of the others you mention would be more debatable. i wasnt going to bother explaing the classicness but i might have to. though i apreciatte everyone has there opinion.

― cedric hendrix, Thursday, 20 May 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic baby.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Thursday, 20 May 2004 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I had pop-reggae guilt from college dorm overdose for a while but i'm totally over it and i will even defend Legend as a hands-down great album.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I own no Elvis or Sinatra records (though my dad does, so there are some in the house), but I own plenty of Coltrane and Marley. I'm not disputing their canonical state of classicness, far from it, I just don't like canons, and none of these artists do as much for me as others (be they of their ilk or not); so Yes, I acknowledge that so many people hold them in such high esteem that their status is unarguable, but at the same time they aren't worth shits or whisltes to me, for the most part.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, thats not what i was getting at though, but nevermind, i own no sinatra, i own lots of marley and a little coltrane, my point wasn't that so many people hold them in esteem that there are reasons for their classic status, i could say similar things about artists that do not have such wide popularity. i dont know your tastes and everone be different so i dont mean nothing agaist you.

― cedric hendrix, Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I never liked his music but last year I bought African Herbsman and that is one classic album. (I know, the typical reggae-snob get-out clause re. Marley innit? "yeah, he got shit after those Scratch albums." ;)

― Omar (Omar), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i prefer his later work

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic, but not reggae.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex, are you the bouncer at the doors of reggae?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha naw serious amazingly classic, but he did get less interesting as time went by, once it was sort of decided (apparently not by him) that the Wailers would be entirely his vehicle. He became much more conventional protest singer-songwriter-rockstar-ish by the end (not the worst thing ever, except that his image did eventually end up obscuring his music.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I was only playing. I pretty much agree, I admire Marley more than I listen to him. Just don't get the hump and cut me off before I've finished downloading that Capleton remix, mmmmmm'kay?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh I'm not hosting that remix. It's been there for a while, so I can't cut anyone off from it.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i disagree with Alex in SF, I think he just started writing really great accessible songs (regardless of genre-purity). The Wailers to the end were an ace backing band.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

x post

Okay :-D. It's satisfyingly crunchy. It's also made me think how rarely I've heard Drum'n'Bass use genuine Reggae vocals.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

"i disagree with Alex in SF, I think he just started writing really great accessible songs (regardless of genre-purity)."

So you are disputing that the production became more conventionally Western and that Bunny and Tosh's contributions were intentionally marginalized?

I am not disagreeing that he wrote great songs later on or that the Wailers were a great band.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

It was more how I disagreed with your "more westernized = less interesting" association. Some of my best friends are Westerners, you know.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

And they're very "interesting".

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Well to be totally fair to Marley, it might just be less interesting musically (to me) then the stuff which Perry ended up producing with other singers through the end of the decade. And I do think it is telling that Island felt the need to "tone" down his records for international sale. It seems clear to me that something was both lost and gained by this.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

i may be misremembering but weren't there Jamaican and non-Jamiacan versions of at least some of the later stuff?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

No, that's true.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in SF OTM here. I do like his pop-reggae stuff fine but I'm a much bigger fan of the Scratch, pre-Island stuff.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

so can anyone comment on the jamaican versions - which i'm guessing weren't so slick?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think a lot of the recent Deluxe Editions have the Jamaican versions appended on them, but I ain't re-buying those things (freakin' expensive) so I can't comment on what the major differences between the two versions were/are.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Dud simply because he is the person most responsible for popularizing what is, without a doubt, the stupidest religion of all time.

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like some of his songs, though!

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is Rastafarianism stupider than other reli. . . wait, I just almost asked you a question like you know what the fuck you are talking about, sorry, nevermind.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Strong contender for "most stupidly over-rated musician of all time"

― kit brash (kit brash), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in SF otm ditto. I think he is "overrated" a tad, but I'd rather call him over-iconicized. I don't like him that much as a person. And I wish he had been as good a signer as Wyclef.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

er, singer, rather

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

The "Redeption Song" 7" is so unbelievably classic that they invented the word "classic" just to describe it

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

and the "Redemption Song" 7" is even better, duuhhhhhh

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to repeat: How can you POSSIBLY listen to Exodus and not like it? Really. Seriously.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't like Marley when all I paid attention to was how annoying the hippy assholes who liked him were. I got over it eventually though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah that was my experience too: once you just sit down with a record like Exodus or Catch a Fire, you find some completely swingin' records

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 21 May 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

It's like an Elvis / Sinatra / Coltrane C or D thread; these guys personify over-rated.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 21 May 2004 07:43 (twenty-two years ago)

but if they're rated by ah, like the complete nong i saw today with his bob marley memorial t-shirt and you can just tell he's a pot dealer with no brains is it really overrated?

i mean i don't see nongs with coltrane t's.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:22 (twenty-two years ago)

or coltrane haircuts.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:25 (twenty-two years ago)

marley - absurdly overrated uncle tom. eric clapton with boot polish.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 08:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I never liked his music but last year I bought African Herbsman and that is one classic album. (I know, the typical reggae-snob get-out clause re. Marley innit? "yeah, he got shit after those Scratch albums." ;)

Meet the typical reggae snob. Perhaps the biggest problem with Marley is the people who like him, as a wander round Camden Market of a weekend will prove. I think he's a tremendously important figure, all that "first ever 3rd World superstar" stuff happens to be true but I'm not his greatest fan. In particular, I'm not a fan of his voice, which I find thin and irritating and overly influenced by Lee Perry - he had an incomparably better singer in the band, Bunny Wailer. Also, in a Syd Barrett type ting, he apparently wrote all his best songs in a brief period and hardly wrote anything else afterwards.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:29 (twenty-two years ago)

and kept recycling them for eight or nine albums. peter tosh was a far more interesting wailer.

oh and am i the only one to find it rather distasteful how danny baker keeps banging on gleefully about how he gave bob marley cancer?

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't like Bob Marley. That said, I think he's underrated.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:33 (twenty-two years ago)

am i the only one who absolutely fucking hates the term "uncle tom"?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"but if they're rated by ah, like the complete nong i saw today with his bob marley memorial t-shirt and you can just tell he's a pot dealer with no brains is it really overrated?"

It's not the "nong's" I'm concerned with - it's the vast massed ranks of tokenists who only actually need about a dozen CD's because a copy of Legend tells them everything they need to know about reggae just as their copies of Kind Of Blue and A Love Supreme tell them everything they need to know about jazz....

You know these people, they are moving amongst us in every day lives - their collection also includes Revolver, Sgt "Peppers and either: Blood On The Tracks, Dark Side Of The Moon and Astral Weeks (if they're over about 35); or Automatic For The People, OK Computer, (What's The Story) Morning Glory and Nevermind (if they're under about 35).

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"am i the only one who absolutely fucking hates the term "uncle tom"?"

I prefer coconut.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:50 (twenty-two years ago)

marley - absurdly overrated uncle tom. eric clapton with boot polish.
-- Marcello Carlin (marcellocarli...), May 21st, 2004.

how the fuck is it not racist to say this, about a genuwine black person? mindboggling

― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

oh think of something original you supine cliche.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

why should anyone have to think of something "original" to tell you you're a racist twat?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

what does Uncle Tom mean?

― mr scratch, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

it's the boot polish thing i don't get; how is this not, when you get to down to the essentials of it, not making fun of black skin?

― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry double negative there, but you get me

― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

.. i sense a long post coming...

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

just when you thought ilx was all marcello-d out today.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Uhoh, Stewart! You said the t-word!

Anyway, letting the stupid mannerisms and attitudes of certain fans of an artist/band ruin that artist/band for you is self-conscious and dumb.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

(which reminds me; I should really start reassessing my Fall annoyance)

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

"uncle tom" is one of the vilest expressions ever also. it implies you're only black if you do certain things and act in a certain way. i hate it when black people use it too. but coming from white people....omfg

― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost

In reference to Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin, the term Uncle Tom, as I understand it, is an epithet applied to blacks who are perceived to act in a shuffling, subservient manner to please white folks. Its use is, if not necessarily racist, at the very least extrodinarily racially-loaded, especially for a white person to apply. I still haven't quite wrapped my head around Robert Christgau's use of it to describe Jimi Hendrix in his infamous Monterey Pop review.

So, Marcello's not necessarily racist in applying it to Bob Marley, just wrong. Boot polish? That's racist.

― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry to derail the lovefest but i feel like an impromptu POX:

1. Duppy Conquerer
2. Kaya
3. Small Axe
4. A Hammer
5. Lively Up Yourself
6. 400 Years
7. Put It On
8. Soul Rebel
9. Rastaman Chant
10.Redemption Song

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

no i think you'll find it's a polish you use to clean your boots.

but unfortunately the predictable attacks indicate yet again that your voice is not your own, you are the product of a discourse.

marley ripped off lee perry's vocal stylings and grafted it clumsily onto clapton's love-me-rich-white-man sickening succour.

sinatra can make me weep. coltrane can make me scream. marley just makes me yawn. go and listen to proper reggae, i.e. dr alimantado, joe gibbs, pablo, culture, burning spear, congos (did marley ever do anything as sheerly VISIONARY as any given nanosecond of "Row Fisherman Row"?) et Al (Green).

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll admit, I like Marcello's list better than Marley.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

But basically, he's an Icon like Presley to various people. But not to me.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i miss mark s.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Marley obv overrated and in a sense *different* to other reggae artists in that he went for the mainstream in such a big way. However the stuff he did ca. 68-71 is classic. Much of the later stuff just too overfamiliar to be of interest, therefore dud.

I don't think he ripped off Perry.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

It's often suggested that Perry and Marley had a fertile working relationship, and it's true to say that by the 70s they shared certain vocal stylings. Listening to their early recordings, though, I'd say Marley changed less than Perry as they converge... I think Perry learned from Marley (vocally) more than vice-versa.

The Perry-period stuff is marvellous and rightly gets great respect. The Studio 1 material is, I think, very mid-60s Coxsone business and too often overlooked, at least by comparison.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

haha that was supposed to read "very fine mid-60s Coxsone business" but I failed again.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello, I probably like most of the artists on your list better than a lot of the post-Wailers Marley stuff, too. But I take issue with "ripped off Scratch" and ANY comparison to Eric retching Clapton. And "Uncle Tom" I read as "beloved of a white audience." THAT'S unoriginal and the product of a discourse.

― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

perry thinks marley ripped off perry.

marley was beloved of a white audience. the lyceum '75 audience was 80% white, for example. do any blacks even bother listening to him these days?

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Nation of Jamaica to thread. And Lee Perry thinks a lot of things.

― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

the dorm room with the Marley poster, next to the Jim Morisson poster, next to the Coltrane poster, next to the trippy tapestry purchased at Urban Outfitters....

classically DUD.

― waxyjax (waxyjax), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, how unfashionable.

― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)

Lee Perry is not the most reliable of sources, though, is he?

Marcello, several of the names you mention above will have, at certain points in their histories, have attracted audiences in the UK which were substantially white, and I'd be very wary of trying to map that on to musical quality.

My understanding is that Bob Marley is enormously popular in many black communities around the world, and I know he's listened to where I live. Certainly he garners enormous respect on the reggae lists and newsgroups I've read over the years, including from people who know their reggae inside out.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Perry learned from Marley (vocally) more than vice-versa.

I'd never really thought about this until I read that David Katz biography of Perry where (i think) Jimmy Riley and Clancy Eccles both point out that not only did Marley's vocal style change as a result of working with Perry but he began to sound like Lee Perry. One of them said something like "Listen to Marley after he worked with Perry, that's Lee Perry's voice you're hearing". It's not so much a case of Marley ripping Perry off as of Perry coaching Marley musically and vocally.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

And if you listen to the two of them they can sound uncannily similar at times altho Perry can't really sing as such

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I've read that book and I wasn't convinced about that. Like, I think, say, the Studio 1 "Simmer Down" has more in common with Marley's 70s vocal style than, say, "Doctor Dick".

(It's probably also fair to say that the likes of Mr. Eccles know what they're on about much more than the likes of me. But it's nice to try to make my own mind up sometimes...!)

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(Did that read like I was having a dig at you? It wasn't meant to, apologies if it did.)

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no no, I didn't read it like that. Anyway, it's difficult to say who influenced who because I don't think Perry was doing that much singing in the early 70s

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

do any blacks even bother listening to him these days?

If they did would that make him good?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"do any blacks even bother listening to him these days?"

This is a joke, right?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

what does Marcello say on ILx anymore that ISN'T?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello, I'm posting from Ghana and Bob is on the cafe player right now. 'Sun Is Shining'.

― Barima (Barima), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

And black or not, I don't have that much time for Bob, but he's made some enjoyable stuff, so 'C'. And Matos otm, I guess.

― Barima (Barima), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello; Marley, and a lot of Jamaican dancehall contained a lot of re-hash from u.s. sides -- that was simply the fasion for at least a decade. And the Wailers were performing for a Jamaican audience, not a white one. C'mon, Pat Boone was more of an Uncle Tom than Marley ever was -- even in his stadium days.

― christoff (christoff), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

This is becoming my headshaking thread du jour.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

not least because people are actually bothering to argue w/Marcello, I wager

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

Ok, so when I first heard Marley's most popular stuff, without much context, I basically assumed that the peace and righteousness and what have you advocated in the lyrics was a vague, hippie-ish sort of thing - we should end war, we should end poverty, ppl should live in peace.

However, after learning more about Reggae and reading up on some of the backstories of some of his songs ("Burnin' & Lootin'" etc), I realised that a lot of his stuff was based not in abstract ideas of how the world is fucked up, but in experiencing the world's fucked-upness firsthand.

So my question, to try to put it in specific enough terms, is: do you think that there's a specific point at which Marley's lyrics stopped being about trying to get the ppl in his backyard to stop shooting each other, and started to be about trying to get ppl everywhere to stop shooting each other? A specific point in time when it stopped being about preaching to a very specific community and started being about more-or-less universal messages?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 4 June 2005 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Dud.

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Sunday, 5 June 2005 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, this thread contains two of the dumbest things ever said on ilm (rastafarianism as "the stupidest religion of all time" and bob marley as an "uncle tom").

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 5 June 2005 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

otm

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 5 June 2005 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Marcello is absolutely spot on in regards to Mr. Marley.

― Leonard Thompson (Grodd), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:03 (twenty-one years ago)

my rastafarianism is off da meeterz BRO

― That One Guy (That One Guy), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:05 (twenty-one years ago)

oh and..

Catch A Fire = C
Everything Else = D

― That One Guy (That One Guy), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

daniel: maybe about the time when the rest of the world discovered him, and he in turn discovered he had the attention of the rest of the world? (rest of the world=white people haha)

― oops (Oops), Sunday, 5 June 2005 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

If you can't hear what's good about Marley, you are confusing your personal and political bagggage with the music, and replacing the music with your snobby judgements about some of the people who happen to listen to it...Saying he ripped of Scratch is an enormous over-simplification of not Marley's work but also the artistic process (last time I checked, Scratch didn't write any of those songs). And it's not Marley's fault there are posters of him in Urban Outfitters--that fact is, when listening to music, completely irrevelant except for those over-concerned with consumer products.

― shookout (shookout), Sunday, 5 June 2005 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Nice post, totally OTM

― Keith C (kcraw916), Sunday, 5 June 2005 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...

last time I checked, Scratch didn't write any of those song

Errrrrrrrrr, he did actually

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:11 (twenty years ago)

But back to the matter at hand, having recently got hold of the "Trenchtown Rock" 4CD box, I remain not entirely convinced of Bob's classicness. In fact, in my less charitable moments, I'm inclined to see Marley as Diana Ross In Dreadlocks: the tiny frame/ the whiny voice, light of skin and light on soulfulness. I mean, you have a guy who's in a band with two singers who are miles better than he is and yet he sings 90% of the material. It's true that he did write a lot of the songs and he is a good songwriter but Bunny's "Dreamland" or Peter Tosh's "Brand New Secondhad" are as good as anything Marley was writing. Was Bunny too black? Peter Tosh too scary? Marley does sing well on some of the material, he's capable of being quite soulful but once he starts doing "The Bob Marley Voice", my interest flags. Was it Lee Perry's fault, what with his Gordyesque conviction about Marley's talent and apparent dislike of Bunny Wailer?

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:26 (twenty years ago)

Thank the lord above (or Haile Selassie, if you're so disposed) that I didn't see this thread when it was active.

― cybele (cybele), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:35 (twenty years ago)

shookout's point stands, the "he ripped off Perry!" take is super-ridiculous - Jamaican music culture during that period was a gigantic cross-fertilization, everybody playing on everybody else's records and sharing in the general excitement of a vibrant scene. Auteurist types like to imagine, I guess, a world in which Lee Scratch Perry writes his songs and then nobody does anything even remotely in the same vein 'cause that'd be "ripping him off," but in such a world everything would be VERY VERY BORING - I am keen to hear what Cybele has to say about any/all of this

xpost - wow, hating on Diana Ross AND Bob Marley? That's double the wrongness for one low price!

(in unrelated news, I was lucky enough to meet Horsemouth Wallace last week and was totally starstruck in an "OMG you played on Augustus Pablo sides!" sort of way, and he told me a bunch of really awesome stories and it ruled)

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:43 (twenty years ago)

did the tide begin to turn against bob marley when the eurosceptic tory MP teddy taylor professed a deep admiration for his works?

check this quote out from hansard:

"I ask my hon. Friends to look at the citizenship issue. It is not just a small question ; this is the big stuff. Listen to Bob Marley. It is all there. Perhaps hon. Members do not know that Bob Marley was a great singer, a Rastafarian, and some of his songs are the most wonderful one could have. One of them tells the whole story of what Government say to us year after year : please do not worry about anything because everything is going to be all right. That is what we have been told time and time again, and every time it has blown up in our faces. I say to those hon. Members who are not worried about citizenship that it does not just mean voting in council elections. I ask them to think about the three-year review and about the fact that the Council of Ministers will be able to act without limit."

on the common agricultural policy:

"I was appalled to see in the Red Book--I do not think that we can possibly send this to the Commission--that contributions this year will unfortunately be higher, although they will be lower thereafter. I have seen Red Books for about 31 years. Every year in which we have been in the EU people have said, "Unfortunately, the position is worse this year, but do not worry--it will be better next year." It is like the Bob Marley song: "Don't you worry about anything baby, because everything's going to be all right."

― dr x o'skeleton, Monday, 13 March 2006 14:51 (twenty years ago)

'bafflin' smoke signals' vs 'the pope smokes dope'

― dave q (listerine), Monday, 13 March 2006 14:54 (twenty years ago)

Hey, JACK-FM just played "Stir It Up"!

My own personal opinions regarding Marley (don't like him, much) and vocal-dominated reggae in general (ditto) are particularly unilluminating. One thing I'm curious about that may be worth discussing, tho, is: How did Bob Marley become THEE reggae musician in North America, the one with the Top Ten albums and fratboy-popularity? Is it because he wrote stuff with more "melody" (in the Hongro sense) like "No Woman No Cry" or "One Love" - the stuff that gygax called 'pop-reggae'? Or do such songs merely SEEM more accessible & commercial due to their longtime overfamiliarity? (A chicken/egg conundrum.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 13 March 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

I think the answer is these songs connect with anyone, like beatles songs - even with a crusty old reactionary like teddy taylor (less a trustafarian poser than his deeply uncool grandad)

― dr x o'skeleton, Monday, 13 March 2006 16:22 (twenty years ago)

trustafarianism is the stupidest religion of all time.

― o -- (eman), Monday, 13 March 2006 16:42 (twenty years ago)

classic, though I'll agree with the "over-iconicized" charge from upthread. I've been really enjoying the early ska and rock steady (1st disc of the Songs of Freedom box set. "Simmer Down", "I'm Still
Waitning", "Bus Dem Shut", "Bend Down Low", etc.) I had grown rather bored with Bob, but this stuff has renewed my interest.

― Will (will), Monday, 13 March 2006 16:53 (twenty years ago)

How did Bob Marley become THEE reggae musician in North America, the one with the Top Ten albums and fratboy-popularity?

I think his ascent to What I Mean When I Say "Reggae"hood in the U.S. had a lot to do with the fact that he toured here, and toured hard, and that he did so at the exact moment when both punks and rock geezers (Keith Richards especially) were name-checking reggae. Also, by all reports (and on the recorded evidence), he was incredibly charismatic live, and his band was just murderously good. So he got a running start on everybody. Plus, he had a very sweet singing style, sort of in a Lovers' Reggae mode but more wistful, less treacly.

I think too, yes, that the tunes themselves are ace pop songs - even the earlier stuff ("My Cup" for example) shows he's got a real gift for hooks.

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Monday, 13 March 2006 17:37 (twenty years ago)

I'm under the impression that most Americans hadn't even heard of reggae til Clapton covered Marley.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 01:04 (twenty years ago)

From what I've seen, 1972 was the year in which the term began to enter the national consciousness, thanks to that year's smash hits "I Can See Clearly Now" and "Black & White" (Three Dog Night). Or possibly it was only the music press who were hip to it. (And occasionally NOT hip: Greg Shaw repeatedly referred to Gary Glitter's "Rock & Roll Part II" as reggae!)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 07:50 (twenty years ago)

It's not so much a case of Marley ripping Perry off as of Perry coaching Marley musically and vocally.

I'm standing by this statement! And I don't hate on Diana Ross and Bob Marley, I quite like both of them (esp. Diana Ross).

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 11:24 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

What is "Bob Marley Anniversary Programme"? It is on at the pictures tomorrow, and me wonders if it is worth the effort.

― PJ Miller, Monday, 25 June 2007 14:49 (eighteen years ago)

Is this what you mean? http://www.odeon.co.uk/fanatic/film_info/s81/Covent_Garden/m10733/Bob_Marley__Anniversary_Programme/

― Daniel Giraffe, Monday, 25 June 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, that's it, only without the Q&A.

― PJ Miller, Monday, 25 June 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

On the hypothetical premise that one owns little to no Marley, and wants to own everything worth playing more than once, what does one buy?

I thought about the boxed set (which is still in print, I believe, or at least track-down-able) but worry about redundancy. I particularly love all the early songs from the '60s, and the live version of the band in the '70s. But what's with all these reissues in recent years?

― Pete Scholtes, Monday, 25 June 2007 22:14 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know much about all the different reissue and boxed set configurations, but the first five albums are all really good.

― Hurting 2, Monday, 25 June 2007 22:21 (eighteen years ago)

This looks pretty great. I've got a few of these from the box set but have always wanted more from this era.

― will, Monday, 25 June 2007 22:26 (eighteen years ago)

I have a soft spot for Rastaman Vibration. The Marley website contains some sound samples, which is nice and helpful: http://web.bobmarley.com/catalogue/index.jsp?catpage=albums.

― Daniel Giraffe, Tuesday, 26 June 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

Has there been a Marley poll yet?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Tuesday, 26 June 2007 16:04 (eighteen years ago)

what a depressing question

― J0hn D., Tuesday, 26 June 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

does momus like polls?

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 26 June 2007 16:25 (eighteen years ago)

three months pass...

forget exodus, catch a fire (the non blackwell-interfered version) is the best album he made.

― titchyschneiderMk2, Friday, 5 October 2007 18:34 (eighteen years ago)

I just got out Exodus and Catch a Fire (deluxe edition) from the library this weekend. Like most folks, I've never actually heard Exodus straight through. I listened to Catch a Fire (the Jamaican version) two nights ago and it was a revelation. I'm trying to be proactive about actually learning something about reggae - a genre I've never given close enough attention to. I also picked up records by Culture and the Congos, which are really pretty amazing. i'll listen to Exodus tonight, but it'd be hard to top Catch a Fire.

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 5 October 2007 23:06 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

BBC sessions = what. a. fucking. awesome. band.

― J0hn D., Thursday, 18 December 2008 06:12 (seventeen years ago)

"I songs was about the plight of the brothers and sisters in Jamaica, mon," Marley said. "But right now, it is the frata mon who need it more."

― mystery girl Pappa found on some random pervy blog (PappaWheelie V), Thursday, 18 December 2008 06:34 (seventeen years ago)

marley - absurdly overrated uncle tom. eric clapton with boot polish.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, May 21, 2004 4:25 AM (4 years ago)