― David, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― DJ Martian, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Michael Bourke, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― emil.y, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― duane, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Arthur, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dana G, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― david, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
That's a dreadful thing to say.
― Sean, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Brian, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
This is a joke right? Television had been around for years before U2 even decided to become a band, and Edge cites Television as an influence. Edge couldn't hold a candle to either Verlaine's or Lloyd's playing, without effects boxes there would be no U2.
― Dennis D, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― K-reg, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― nickn, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
anyone heard (WTF?) the new richard lloyd hendrix covers (WTF?) and/or seen a recent show?http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2009/04/televisions_ric.html
― kamerad, Thursday, 7 May 2009 22:38 (fourteen years ago) link
I got his first solo album. Strikingly like mid-period Nick Lowe!
― Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2009 08:56 (fourteen years ago) link
damn i didn't know he just played D.C. a couple weeks ago, i totally would've been into seeing Lloyd cover Hendrix
― apparent goals of sexiness and detailed vagina mapping (some dude), Friday, 8 May 2009 12:46 (fourteen years ago) link
so i went last night. he didn't really play many hendrix songs but did do sterling versions of "friction" and "elevation." dude is an a-mazing guitar player. he had laryngitis though which sucked
― kamerad, Friday, 8 May 2009 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link
Billy Ficca's playing drums with him right? That'd be a bonus for sure.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 14:34 (fourteen years ago) link
Sounds awesome.
I keep hoping Television get together and do another album like they did with that s/t one in, what, the early '90s?, that surprises me by actually being pretty good.
― SQUIRREL WITH A PEOPLE FACE (╓abies), Friday, 8 May 2009 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link
i think it was billy yeah and the two of them were having a lot of fun together. a few times it seemed like they were making up songs on the spot for a minute or two before going into something familiar
― kamerad, Friday, 8 May 2009 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link
cool, wish Lloyd/Ficca would come to my neck of the woods. there were some rumors that Television was recording an album -- without Lloyd!! -- a year or two back. Don't know if that would really end up being a Television album or just a Tom Verlaine solo record. Anyway, they had been playing about an albums' worth of new songs between 2002-2006. Not exactly the most ambitious band in the world, in terms of recording, though.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link
that brooklynvegan link upthread mentions that television are currently recording, with jimmy ripp on guitar.
― willem, Friday, 8 May 2009 15:17 (fourteen years ago) link
ah yes, that is what I had heard. i think Lloyd made a big announcement a few years back about how he was quitting Television once and for all, but that he gave them his blessing to continue without him. Still, Television w/o Lloyd just seems like Tom Verlaine solo -- Ripp, Ficca and Smith have all played on his solo records, anyway. Whatever, it'd be nice to have some new Verlaine/Television material. What I've heard from various live tapes sounds prettty sweet.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 15:26 (fourteen years ago) link
Who is Jimmy Ripp :(
― SQUIRREL WITH A PEOPLE FACE (╓abies), Friday, 8 May 2009 15:29 (fourteen years ago) link
Dude who played guitar with Verlaine throughout the 80s and 90s. Great player actually.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 15:30 (fourteen years ago) link
at this point, he's probably logged more hours with Tom than Lloyd has.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 15:31 (fourteen years ago) link
at the last television show i saw, 2005 i think?, he played some great stuff i didn't reccognize. I particularly remember a long song with a terrific eastern motif.
― willem, Friday, 8 May 2009 15:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Sounds hopeful. Still sad to think of that band without Lloyd.
― SQUIRREL WITH A PEOPLE FACE (╓abies), Friday, 8 May 2009 16:16 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, would be pretty weird to have a Television album w/o Lloyd -- is there a single review of that band that doesn't talk about the dueling Verlaine/Lloyd guitars? it's pretty much their signature.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 16:22 (fourteen years ago) link
i've only seen television once - one of the early '00s reunion shows in DC - but my main takeaway was that i'd severely overrated verlaine and underrated lloyd as guitarists. verlaine was a mess (sometimes in a really good way, obvs) with flashes of inspiration, but lloyd was lyrical, hypnotic, and locked on. it was weird to realize how many times i'd listened to recordings and been like "omg verlaine!" when it was actually lloyd's playing. verlaine rules, but i think his stuff is more of an "if you catch him on a good night, wow" kinda thing.
― pretzel walrus, Friday, 8 May 2009 16:49 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah i don't think Verlaine's heart is in the epic intense guitar solos these days. he can still do great stuff, but i think he left the heavy lifting to Lloyd in the various reunions. Like when I've heard latter-day versions of "Little Johnny Jewel" Tom barely seems there, whereas he kills it on those 70s recordings.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 16:53 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah...you just hear Verlaine's name so much more than when you hear guitar stuff on the albums you kinda assume it's him until you learn otherwise...i wish they'd credited who did which solos/leads on Marquee Moon like they did for the self-titled album.
xpost
― Briney Deep Coralgarden (some dude), Friday, 8 May 2009 16:54 (fourteen years ago) link
they did! it's on the vinyl, anyway.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 16:56 (fourteen years ago) link
I heard somewhere or other that Lloyd's parts were a lot more written than Verlaine's, much truth in that ya suppose?
― SQUIRREL WITH A PEOPLE FACE (╓abies), Friday, 8 May 2009 16:59 (fourteen years ago) link
ah really? I need to check my CD reissue to see if it's in there.
― Briney Deep Coralgarden (some dude), Friday, 8 May 2009 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link
oh totally, re: Lloyd's parts. On Marquee Moon, Richard doubletracked every note he played.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 17:04 (fourteen years ago) link
xpost the guitar solo credits etc are def on the rhino cd reish
saw the reformed television twice this decade, and both times the tension between verlaine and lloyd was self-evident in the way that they played together, stood on stage together, glared at each other (mostly tom) etc etc - i wouldn't say that either of 'em was 'better' on the night, tho' the second time around (2004) the whole group was noticeably sloppier - the first time i saw 'em (at the Tortoise curated ATP in 2001) the version of 'little johnny jewel' they delivered was stunning and tom v was on fire
in 2006 i saw verlaine and ripp play a really sweet duo set at the 100 club - ripp was v. much the accompaniest and subservient to the master, and verlaine seemed much more engaged w/ the material and event, even when playing a few of the old hits - i don't ever expect to see tom in action so close up and personal, and he was def. on form that night - so he still has it, still
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 8 May 2009 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah i've heard some of the Ripp/Verlaine duo (mostly instrumental) -- really lovely stuff!
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 17:35 (fourteen years ago) link
btw if yr interested in hearing a bunch of vintage Television bootlegs, I did a long overview at my blog a couple weeks back: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/ I'll get around to the reunion years someday.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link
hmm: http://aquariumdrunkard.tumblr.com/post/677685931/indieandyy-careful-by-local-natives-originallyAquarium Drunkard will be digitally releasing L’Aventure on June 22, featuring 8 Los Angeles bands each covering a track from the 1978 Television LP, Adventure.1.The Henry Clay People: “Glory”2.Foreign Born: “Days”3.The Happy Hollows: “Foxhole”4.Local Natives: “Careful”5.The Deadly Syndrome: “Carried Away”6.Imaad Wasif [ft. Lykke Li]: “The Fire”7.Dirt Dress: “Ain’t That Nothin’”8.Growlers: “The Dream’s Dream”don't know any of these bands ... good/bad/eh?
― tylerw, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
local la bands, seen most of them, none of them are that bad but nothing really that special about any of em
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link
^^ tyler--any chance that you could re-post No Glamour-- later TV @ Academy '92?
― nerve_pylon, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:13 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, sure i'll re-post that one. totally an amazing set. blows away the s/t record. lloyd's solo on 1880 or so = craaaaaazy.i'm in the process of putting together a couple of comps covering unreleased Television songs from the 70s and the 00s for the blog, too.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Venus de Milo has no arms, fwiw
― ksh, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
^^ thanks tyler--sounds great!
― nerve_pylon, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
this covers thing has me thinking -- are there any really *great* television covers? i liked chris stamey's mellow take on "venus" ... feelies do a good see no evil. clientele did a nice version of "the fire" a few years back.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
[ft. Lykke Li]
Huh? How'd she get involved? (swedish pop princess (imo :))
― willem, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
LOL Upthread somebody said Television was a rip-off of early U2. I fervently pray that they were kidding.
'Marquee Moon' remains one of the great guitar-oriented rock LPs, a distinction that was certainly not damaged by the inclusion of "Little Johnny Jewel" on the reissue. The arrangements are also spot-on, the melodies infectious. The other records are also very good. 'The Blow-Up' is a terrific sounds-like-you're-there live recording & the s/t comeback disc was better than I thought it was going to be. 'Adventure' isn't as crazy-good as 'Marquee Moon' but I think it suffers only by comparison. Pretty solid throughout & it makes me wish they had continued long enough to do a 3rd LP so we could really judge its sophtware (sic) slump qualities more accurately. BUt - there ya go...
― ImprovSpirit, Wednesday, 9 June 2010 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link
LOL Upthread somebody said Television was a rip-off of early U2.
omg holy lols
― ksh, Wednesday, 9 June 2010 01:04 (thirteen years ago) link
It was dave q, it was a joke
― Wenlock & Mandelson (Tom D.), Wednesday, 9 June 2010 13:30 (thirteen years ago) link
this is cool -- the classic ARROW bootleg, uploaded by the taper/bootlegger himself: luckypsychichut.blogspot.com/2009/11/television-arrow-bootleg.htmlpretty awesome bootleg (most of it shows up on the Blow Up, but as the dude notes, it sounds better here). Johnny Jewel might be the definitive version.
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 October 2010 19:38 (thirteen years ago) link
cool indeed, thanks
― sonderangerbot, Thursday, 21 October 2010 19:47 (thirteen years ago) link
From that blog:
Tom Verlaine is now my girlfriend's grumpy upstairs neighbor and has (like myself) lost most of his teeth, but I still get a kick out of seeing him stumbling in off the street with a pizza for dinner, mumbling a few random problems that need fixing to the doorman.
― Santa's Choad (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 21 October 2010 19:49 (thirteen years ago) link
haha, sounds about right.
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 October 2010 19:52 (thirteen years ago) link
Hate the way The Blow Up sounds
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Friday, 22 October 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Would be nicer if he'd uploaded the whole show, not just the stuff on Arrow. I might have been at this show btw. They played at My Father's Place three times in '78 & I don't remember which one I went to. It was definitely before the Adventure album came out. I spent a fair amount of time thinking TV had a new song called "Fatso, Fatso."
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 22 October 2010 15:31 (thirteen years ago) link
lol. i've got at least one of the complete father's place recordings, incredibly jealous you got to see it in person. television was pretty much the best band on the planet at that point. just amazing.
― tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 15:36 (thirteen years ago) link
HahahaThere's a link in the comments to a blog that offers an entire 78 Television show. Not sure if it's the same gig though (can't check quickly as I'm browsing on a not so handy phone).
― willem, Friday, 22 October 2010 15:38 (thirteen years ago) link
phone allows xposts...
― willem, Friday, 22 October 2010 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
tbh i remember it less for the performance than for the pigeon who shat on me afterward. The club was situated next to a tall viaduct, & people parked underneath (illegally, as it turned out -- that's nominally what did the club in, lack of legal parking, though what really did it in was NIMBY on the part of the good people of Old Roslyn). usually the pigeons would be kind enough only to use the cars for target practice, but this one was particularly ornery. The performance was great, of course. I'm an old fogy, though -- in 1978, the bar was just set higher. Lots of performances were great. I prolly just go to the wrong shows, now, i dunno...
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 22 October 2010 15:53 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm even jealous of your pigeon story. srsly, if i was granted one time machine trip it might be to go see television around that time.
― tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 16:36 (thirteen years ago) link
just posted this - an imaginary third 70s television album made up of unreleased live tunes 1975-78 http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/5667774473/kingdom-come-the-lost-television-album-dont-get
― tylerw, Friday, 20 May 2011 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
all over that thanks!!
― nerve_pylon, Friday, 20 May 2011 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
damn tyler awesome
― Blink 187um (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 20 May 2011 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
thaking u
― http://twitter.com/hipsterrunoff/status/56581234846990336 (markers), Friday, 20 May 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
no problem. it is pretty good!
― tylerw, Friday, 20 May 2011 17:30 (twelve years ago) link
:):):):):)
― sonderangerbot, Friday, 20 May 2011 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
got around to getting Portland '78 off yr blog and jesus fucking christ
― Spikey, Saturday, 21 May 2011 02:45 (twelve years ago) link
weirdness! Metallica's Lars Ulrich On His Cult HeroesTo me, Television’s first record still sounds as fresh today and as all-round awesome as it did in 1977. I grew up in Copenhagen, and pretty much I got everything I knew about music came from this tiny record store there. There weren’t any Danish music periodicals, so it was all word of mouth in this place, and I remember this guy called Tim who put me onto all kind of things – including 'Marquee Moon'.
Television played Copenhagen around the time it came in, and I saw them in this tiny venue. The Pistols had played in Copenhagen in June or July of 77, the Ramones played as well. ACDC came down too, and played in early September. So in the span of about three months the Pistols, Ramones, ACDC and Television had all played in my home town as headline acts. Excellent! Those concerts were actually what kept me alive at that time.
With Television, I got the sense that here was a real band who were really connecting with each other. Obviously Tom Verlaine was the mainman, but some of the songs on that first album, like 'Friction', are just so intricate. That one's actually like this real hard rock track too. Don’t tell anyone this but 'Marquee Moon' is one of my secret tracks for Metallica to play. I'm gonna try and sneak that one in there without anyone noticing!
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 May 2011 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
"i rememberuuuh how the darkness duhbuhlledyeaah"
― Michael B, Thursday, 26 May 2011 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
Ah recalluh.....lightnin struck itselffffffah
― kornrulez6969, Thursday, 26 May 2011 17:14 (twelve years ago) link
the lightningggggah rode itself!
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 May 2011 17:16 (twelve years ago) link
I'm imagining Lars' double-bass-drums bit from "One" ruining the post-solo breakdown.
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 26 May 2011 17:33 (twelve years ago) link
who's actually had the guts to cover marquee moon? i've heard that kronos quartet version, but can't think of others.
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 May 2011 17:58 (twelve years ago) link
One could argue that Richard & Linda Thompson covered it before it was recorded...
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 26 May 2011 18:52 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXB4q-V14TIhee hee
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 May 2011 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
this television cover band from NC actually sound pretty rad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cIwVhL183A
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 May 2011 18:59 (twelve years ago) link
Kronos Quartet covered Marquee Moon on an Elektra anniversary comp. Not on YouTube...
― willem, Thursday, 26 May 2011 20:58 (twelve years ago) link
I remember liking it. Probably have the tape somewhere in the attic
I do have the cassette version that the previous owner transferred onto CD.
It's not all that, really.
― Mark G, Thursday, 26 May 2011 21:05 (twelve years ago) link
Ha, just now seeing that tyler already mentioned it. Ah well, it's here: http://somegirlinspace.blogspot.com/2007/04/marquee-moon.html.
― willem, Thursday, 26 May 2011 21:09 (twelve years ago) link
i heard a mashup of the original television "marquee moon" with the kronos quartet version. which was interesting. didn't quite work.
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 May 2011 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
Been enjoying the lost third TV album!
― willem, Thursday, 26 May 2011 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
oh cool, yeah there's some good stuff on there. amazing that there hasn't been some sort of television box set ... or at least a rarities comp.
― tylerw, Thursday, 26 May 2011 21:29 (twelve years ago) link
tyler, the "lost" "third" "album" is aceee, thankyou very much.
― sometimes all it takes is a healthy dose of continental indiepop (tomofthenest), Thursday, 26 May 2011 21:55 (twelve years ago) link
^ seconded, well done Tyler
― Tom D has taken many months to run this thread to ground (Tom D.), Friday, 27 May 2011 11:51 (twelve years ago) link
The actual third album is quite excellent – my introduction to the boys.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 27 May 2011 13:10 (twelve years ago) link
Thanks as usual Tyler
― Marco Damiani, Friday, 27 May 2011 13:17 (twelve years ago) link
apparently there's a new television track on some japanese benefit LP? can't really find too much info, but it's without lloyd. so strange.
― tylerw, Friday, 27 May 2011 14:12 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.headheritage.co.uk/headtohead/unsung/topic/62553/
― tylerw, Friday, 27 May 2011 14:13 (twelve years ago) link
kind of a bizarre tracklist! Vinyl Japan/Eikoku Ongaku” OMOIYARI FOR JAPAN " international music rescue vol.1vinyl japan label 英国音楽 2CD set 2100 ( inc: VAT )
DISC1:1.AUTAMATA / OUT OF THIS ( from the album " MY SANCTUARY " )2.BOZ BOORER / TOKYO CALLING ( special recording for this charity album " )3.DAGMAR KRAUSE / MESSAGES ( previously unreleased song )4.DEAF SCHOOL / TAXI ( live version )5.THE DIVINE COMEDY / CERTAINTY OF CHANCE ( previously unreleased version )6.ELLIOTT MURPHY AND THE NORMANDY ALL STAR BAND FEATURING OLIVIER DURAND/COUNTERCLOCKWISE ( from the album " ELLIOT MURPHY " )7.FRIENDS / THIS IS THE START (TRUMPET MIX)( unreleased different version )8.THE HEP CHAPS / JUST DUG SPUDS ( from album " CLOSE YOUR EYES " )9.HONEY BANE / THIS AIN'T REALITY ( from the album" ACCEPTANCE OF EXISTENCE "10.JEREMY GLUCK & KATE McEWAN / WHISPER(MARTY THAU MIX)11.JIMMY RIP & THE TRIP / SLOW SOUTHERN WAYS ( unreleased version )12.THE LOTUS EATERS / IF YOU LEAVE ME NOW ( from the album " DIFFERENCE " )13.MENACE / I DON'T CARE ( from the album " TOO MANY PUNKS ARE DEAD " )14.THE MONOCHROME SET / EINE SYMPHONIE DES GRAUENS( unreleased live version )15.PAT FISH / ALL THE SAINTS ( unreleased song )DISC2:1.RICHARD HELL / TIME ( from the album " DESTINY STREET REPAIRED " )2.RICHARD LLOYD / GLURP ( from the album " THE RADIANT MONKEY " )3.TELEVISION / MISTAKES ( previously unreleased )4.TOM VERLAINE / LEAVES ( special new recording for this charity album )5.PHIL WILSON / I OWN IT ( previously unreleased demo version )6.THE POOH STICKS / JUST ANOTHER MINUTE ( from the album " MULTIPLE ORGASM" )7.SECRET AFFAIR / LAND OF HOPE ( from the album " THE SINGLE COLLECTION " )8.SNIFF'N' THE TEARS / PRAY ( from new album " DOWNSTREAM " )9.STRANGEFRUIT / THE BELL ( previously unreleased song )10. TENDER TRAP / SUDDENLY ( from the album " DANSETTE DANSETTE " )11.TREE / ALRIGHT ( special new recording for this album )12.THE UNDERTONES / THRILL ME ( from the album " GET WHAT YOU NEED " )13 VANESSA CONTENAY-QUINONES / SHOW ME HOW ( special new recording )14.WOODENBOX WITH A FISTFUL OF FIVERS / TWISTED MILE ( unreleased version )15.THE ZOMBIES / SHE'S NOT THERE ( from the live album " LIVE AT THE BLOOMSBURY THEATRE, LONDON " )
― tylerw, Friday, 27 May 2011 14:14 (twelve years ago) link
There was a great 80s jangle band from Mississippi called The Windbreakers that did a pretty good job covering Glory. I can't find any links to it on youtube but you can hear 30 seconds of it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Windbreakers/e/B000ARA13E/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1306506196&sr=8-1
― kornrulez6969, Friday, 27 May 2011 14:24 (twelve years ago) link
The Windbreakers were okay, but I think they had the worst band name ever.
― immer wieder, ralf & günther (NickB), Friday, 27 May 2011 14:25 (twelve years ago) link
was actually surprised this didn't already exist, but i guess it's coming out next week:http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41C4w8sJiXL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
― tylerw, Friday, 10 June 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
ooo
― Mark G, Friday, 10 June 2011 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
looks to be pretty long! at least long compared to some of these 33 1/3 books. guess you've gotta have at least 100 pages to discuss verlaine's solo on the title track.
― tylerw, Friday, 10 June 2011 21:12 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh9fHZ17HWE&feature=player_embeddednew track! ummm underwhelming, but sort of cool.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 22:31 (twelve years ago) link
So I caught a bit of a pretty rad broadcast on WNYU yesterday -- they had a guest who seemed to have written a book about Television or maybe just the CBGB scene or something, but I didn't catch who he was. Anyway, the guy played this version of Friction from some demos recorded by Eno while Hell was still in the band, so fucking awesome. Found it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjEFuUNc3Uc
Whole broadcast is here:http://wnyu.org/2011-09-29_newafternoonshow
― Disraeli Geirs (Hurting 2), Saturday, 1 October 2011 01:12 (twelve years ago) link
BrYan Eno, ha.
― LaMonte, Saturday, 1 October 2011 01:20 (twelve years ago) link
Marquee Moon with the guitar lick on the other beat:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS27RAXhBWQ
― Disraeli Geirs (Hurting 2), Saturday, 1 October 2011 01:23 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.thedailyswarm.com/headlines/televisions-richard-lloyd-tells-his-side-story-comment-section/
― The 700 KKKlub (lpz), Saturday, 1 October 2011 03:39 (twelve years ago) link
Ha. Verlaine is kind of my least favorite thing about Television, although I'm kind of shocked at how bitter Lloyd is after all these years.
― Disraeli Geirs (Hurting 2), Saturday, 1 October 2011 15:56 (twelve years ago) link
I saw Television play maybe a decade ago, and they were pretty good. But Lloyd broke a guitar string a couple of minutes into "Marquee Moon." Surprisingly, the band did not stop playing while Lloyd - patiently, almost slowly, definitely not smiling - crouched at the side of the stage and changed the string. The rest of the band sort of ambled through the song til Lloyd joined in again at the very end. Wasn't terrible, but it was strange!
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 October 2011 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
was that the Metro show -- odd, I don't remember that at all! I remember the whole show being fantastic tho, what a high!
― Stormy Davis, Saturday, 1 October 2011 17:09 (twelve years ago) link
It was the Metro show, yeah. It was totally great, wasn't it? I want to say it ended with "Prove It" and feature some "Nuggets" cover. "MM" didn't sound bad minus Lloyd, oddly. I just thought it odd how he handled it, and that he had neither a second guitar nor a roadie to change the string for him.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 October 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
Oh yeah, they covered "Psychotic Reaction."
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 October 2011 17:28 (twelve years ago) link
Josh, yeah that show was super duper good. couldn't believe I was standing there watching Television! the thing that struck me the most was Billy Ficca's drumming -- what a fantastic drummer! like, I always thought of Television as a guitar band, and never really concentrated on the rhythm section, but watching Ficca live really noticed how solid he is
I also want to say that show was the same night Joey Ramone died. or was it John Fahey? they both passed in quick succession. I remember driving home and learning that one of them had died. wiki tells me it would have been feb or april 2001
― Stormy Davis, Saturday, 1 October 2011 18:47 (twelve years ago) link
Lloyd spilling all this bile after leaving the band he was in for 30+ years is just kind of uncomfortable and unnecessary -- like even if every word he says is true, it's like dude, you hung in there that long by choice, you have noone to blame but yourself, stop patting yourself on the back for being so 'loyal' to the guys you're now trashing all over the internet.
― some dude, Saturday, 1 October 2011 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
TBF, hanging in there didn't exactly take a of effort.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 October 2011 21:32 (twelve years ago) link
well he makes it sound like he was constantly putting his life outside the band on hold for three creatively fruitless decades in which they only made one forgettable album and were always discussing recording again. which does suck for him, if true, but again it's a 'fool me once, shame on you' thing.
― some dude, Saturday, 1 October 2011 21:37 (twelve years ago) link
Sure, but if that's your thing, and you like doing it, then yeah, you would cancel tours and sessions and stuff every time Tom Verlaine asked. It was foolish, after all that time off, for Lloyd to really sacrifice anything for the sake of the band. All I know is that I honestly appreciate Lloyd's contributions to those Matthew Sweet records more than anything Verlaine has done since "Marquee Moon."
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 October 2011 23:57 (twelve years ago) link
I have his solo album, it sounds like Nick Lowe.
― Mark G, Monday, 3 October 2011 08:51 (twelve years ago) link
ha -- I love the '92 "reunion" album.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 10:57 (twelve years ago) link
Alchemy? Because he made some other solo albums after that with Swedish only release or something. Alchemy was great, complete with a "Love Is Strange" sound alike, RIP Sylvia Robinson. So yeah, like Nick Lowe, fair enough.
― So. Central Mayne (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 October 2011 11:11 (twelve years ago) link
All I know is that I honestly appreciate Lloyd's contributions to those Matthew Sweet records more than anything Verlaine has done since "Marquee Moon."
QFT.
― You people are supposed to be some kind of music culture intelligentsi (Phil D.), Monday, 3 October 2011 12:42 (twelve years ago) link
i dunno, you gys are missing out, verlaine has a lot of stellar material/guitar playing post-MM. lloyd freaking out is weird, but i think he might just be a weird dude.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:52 (twelve years ago) link
gys = guys
posted this elsewhere, but you want a primer on how good verlaine can be w/o television, check this out: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/8834986475/pull-down-the-future-covering-two-decades-of-live
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 14:53 (twelve years ago) link
ur totally out of your mind. Listen to the shit Tyler posted.
re: the stuff Lloyd's been posting. Lloyd and Verlaine are both dicks. Lloyd, additionally, is for-real crazy. All of it should be taken with a huge grain of salt (a salt lick maybe).
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 3 October 2011 16:27 (twelve years ago) link
Richard Lloyd's live "Real Time" is fantastic.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Monday, 3 October 2011 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
it's funny, when i interviewed lloyd many years ago, he was surprisingly friendly/norma, for the most part. i had expected a really cranky dude. don't know if he kinda goes through phases of craziness or what. lloyd does get some pretty sweet guitar spots on the new rocket from the tombs record. on spotify if you're curious.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 17:45 (twelve years ago) link
"friendly/normal" not norma. having trouble typing today.
Lloyd's website is an embarrassment of riches for guitar students (especially for guitar students who love Richard Lloyd's playing). Every lesson is accompanied by a thoughtful bit of advice/wisdom, and nowhere does he come off as cranky or not-all-there.
...aaaaand now that I check his site, it seems the lessons are nowhere to be found.
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 October 2011 18:05 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, i remember a lot of those lessons. maybe he released a dvd of them or something?at some point, he had all of this bizarre pseudo mystical stuff up, couldn't tell if he was kidding or what.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:11 (twelve years ago) link
He took down the lessons from his website! (xpost)I remember them being interesting, kind of deep, not just "here are a few of my favorite chord shapes and licks," which you wouldn't really expect from him anyway, but still.
― So. Central Mayne (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 October 2011 18:20 (twelve years ago) link
I printed out a few of the exercises, and have used them every day for years now. Invaluable shit.
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 October 2011 18:22 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, there's some guitar-y stuff left over in the ask richard section. he seems pretty reasonable there for the most part.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:22 (twelve years ago) link
re: RFTT, I saw Lloyd with them in around 2005 or so, and yep, he killed. The crowd was hanging on every note. David Thomas, for his part, sat on a chair in the middle of the stage with a bottle of Courvoisier.
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 October 2011 18:25 (twelve years ago) link
Me preferring Lloyd on the Sweet records has nothing to do with Verlaine's own undeniable talents. It has to do with ... preference. As in, what I actually prefer to listen to. Lloyd (and Quine) were just such a surprisingly perfect fit for that stuff.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:27 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, I want to say I saw RFFT that same year, mostly for Lloyd, honestly. Want to say Thomas was barely ambulatory, leaning on a cane.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:28 (twelve years ago) link
huh, i saw an earlier RFTT show (2003-ish?) and Thomas was pretty explosive. He did sit a little bit, but he also went nuts.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:30 (twelve years ago) link
Fuck I wish I could find this article written by a dude who traveled with RL on one of his recent tours, kind of a profile piece. I thought I had the link in my email somewhere... anyway, I am far from a behavioral health expert but it seemed pretty obv RL was bipolar.
Re: RFTT I wonder if Thomas was hurt for those shows? He has a pretty active stage presence IME
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 3 October 2011 18:33 (twelve years ago) link
He was pretty hefty, and it looked like his knees were suffering. This was in NYC, whenever it was.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
On the plus side, after the show, Thomas stayed in his stage chair and personally sold RFTT CDs (possibly to circumvent that venue's policy of taking 20% of bands' CD sales). I probably wouldn't have bought one otherwise, but I'm glad I did (for getting to meet Thomas and for Lloyd's playing on the record).
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 October 2011 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
Is this the most underachieving band in the history of rock? You could make a strong argument. They had all the talent in the world, and one of the three or four best debut albums ever. But after 1977 it was all downhill, save for a handful of good songs.
― kornrulez6969, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:46 (twelve years ago) link
For sure. There are some people that think the band started to go downhill before it even hit the studio!
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 3 October 2011 18:59 (twelve years ago) link
While I happily agree that MM stands at the apex of TV/Verlaine/Lloyd's output, statements like "all downhill save for a handful of good songs" srsly boggle my mind. I mean, tons of ppl say this, it's not a minority view at all. But I don't know how to reconcile it with what i hear...
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:03 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, i just think that if you really like marquee moon, then you'll find plenty to love in the records that came after. do any of them reach the heights of MM? maybe not, but very few things do!
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 19:08 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, like I said upthread, I love the '92 album as much as Adventure – two very good albums.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
the live album shows that adventure's problems were more bloodless production and not so much material (i think the adventure songs on the old waldorf just shine)
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:10 (twelve years ago) link
^ this
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:12 (twelve years ago) link
i dig the more textured approach on adventure's slower songs -- the fire, carried away, days, but yeah, the rockers come off way better live.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 19:12 (twelve years ago) link
i'd put "the dream's dream" old waldorf up against anything on marquee moon
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:15 (twelve years ago) link
otm, it's otherworldly.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 October 2011 19:30 (twelve years ago) link
The first time I listed to the Old Waldorf show I wasn't looking at the track listing, and the segueway from "The Dream's Dream" into "Venus" blew me away.
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
Old Waldorf is basically the 2nd Television album as far as I'm concerned, everyone should own it.
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 3 October 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
the rockers come off way better live.
Ain't That Nothin' in particular.
― kornrulez6969, Monday, 3 October 2011 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
Richard Lloyd is 60 today. Happy birthday, dude.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 25 October 2011 13:16 (twelve years ago) link
shine on you crazy diamond
― tylerw, Tuesday, 25 October 2011 15:07 (twelve years ago) link
Seconded
― R. Stornoway (Tom D.), Tuesday, 25 October 2011 15:09 (twelve years ago) link
Happy birthday!
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 25 October 2011 16:07 (twelve years ago) link
Aside, fun Verlaine stories from Steve Kilbey yesterday
when i was a kidi was scouring all the music ragslooking for the next big thingi read a small article on a band called televisionin a mag called rock sceneit was written by patti smithshe wrote about this guy tom verlaines handshow he was the kinda guy you’d wanna lose yer virginity to….over the next few years there were tantalising references constantlyall of em saying how this band were incrediblejohnny jewel a single (kinda strange but intriguing)and bits and pieces until in 1977 the first album came outof course it was called marquee moonand verily it was all they said it would bean incredible record34 years later todayi got an email from some guys watching televisions current progressco guitarist richard lloyd is outand some other guy jimmy rip is intheres a whole argument going down on youtuberichard lloyd weighing in slagging off tvfunny that people are interested in these ancient clashesi met tv in 1988he was opening for the church and peter murphyhe wanted to borrow my acoustic guitarit was a black guild ..it got stolen n broke my heartas soon as he played one note you could hear it was hima totally unique approach dare i say virtuosopk sometimes has this effect like a total understandinganyway tv was sposed to go on murphys busbut within one second tv had some falling out with murphand ended up on our bus for a whole tourhe started the night with a 30 minute setalone with an acoustic he was kinda ordinaryhe was very jokey in a bizarre way on and off stagehe was a total caffeine and nicotine man toohe was always wired tho he eschewed all other substancestelevision had been a huge influence on us allwe were all quite surprised n impressed to have tv with ushe treated me a bit like an annoying kid and i probably deserved iti blabbed on to him all day about television ..why i liked them…but he was bemused and sent me up a bitwe played monopoly for real money once on the busand tv bickered over the fuckin’ rules and argued the tosseeerrr kil-bee lets see uh this triple double in jail ruleuh i think this is an uh english rule and uh i aint goin’ to jail..how bizarre to be arguing monopoly rules with verlainesomewhere in dakota or wherever as we sped thru the nightas the tour progressed tv would come out each night and play with uswe did :you took and cortez the killer with 3 lead guitarists3 of the very best you can get toooffstage howevertv was an incredible stingy miser arguing over every last cent literallyeerrr uh kil-bee uh you should pay an extra 75 cents for your share of the friesthis was one of the complaints on the you tube vids toms meannesshe was never very complimentary about richard lloyd eitherlloyd didnt have anything to do with it if you listened to tvhe downplayed the guy right outta existenceit was unnecessary i thought to be so ungracious….one day off in houston we went to this placeit was 1988 and you could record your vocal over a cassette backingi sang my vocal over i left my heart in san francisco ( for DT)tv got some old country n western track n giggled n whispered n mutteredhe played it back to us convinced he’d found some new directionone night the phone rang in my roomeerr kil-bee eerr uh i’m down here in the bar with some divorceesand i was ah wondrin’ if uh you could uh take one off my hands …he was very charismatic and quite the ladies manevery night different women would seek him out backstagestrangely none seemed too bizarre for his tastehe had a little sweetie in every townone morning we checked in some place early on the east coastit was winter and snow lay on the groundtv suggested a walkand we hiked up this hill with a reservoir at the topit was 630 in the morning and we interrupted somethingcos suddenly about 10 big black guys were chasing usbaying for our bloodtv and i ran downhill into the woodstv was like a thoroughbred horse leaping thru the treesit was weird to be in such a pickle with a one time idolanyway the stuff that happened onstage when he joined us was magiche could coax a million sounds from a guitar trains and birdsand doppler effects and helicopters and guns ..anything..but you could never see exactly how he did it …he was a true geniuswe vaguely planned on recording together but his heart wasnt in itwe bickered over the financial details and that was iti dont believe it would have worked out anywaytv had some essential suspicious jokey sarcastic ny schtickit was hard to get through ithe insulted lembo who was trying to manage himand lembo couldnt see the financial gainas opposed to the grief n pain that managing tv would bringhe was ungrateful in spades and just incredibly penny pinchinglike a scrooge from brooklyn or somethingit was an unnerving mixturewe drifted apart after the tour i never saw him againmarty played on on of ’is solo recordsand the church did an insipid uninspired version of frictionfunny seeing tv on that show in portugal just filmed latelythat same old cagey grin that same old tom cat jivejesus what a characterha ha
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 25 October 2011 16:09 (twelve years ago) link
hee heetoo bad verlaine and lloyd seem to loath each other. they sure sound good togetherhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72GLZ-8zQEo
― tylerw, Tuesday, 25 October 2011 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
I was trying to think of the right way to describe Lloyd's place in Television, not a co-equal, not a sideman. When he first joined he's said he felt like George (with Hell and Verlaine as John and Paul), but once Hell split it's not like it was really Paul and George. Lloyd seems like the catalyst that made Verlaine's ideas work and turned them into something bigger. Which maybe Verlaine couldn't forgive him for, in a way.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 25 October 2011 16:23 (twelve years ago) link
I dunno, it seems Lloyd kept the George role, whereas Verlaine and Smith did different than John and Paul.
or something.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 25 October 2011 20:16 (twelve years ago) link
http://static.ow.ly/photos/normal/k1Cs.jpgsaw this in Denver this morning. don't know the band, would be tough to pull off Television, you'd have to have chops!
― tylerw, Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:00 (twelve years ago) link
Hmm, over here they'd have to state, explicitly, that they are 'tribute' acts.
― Mark G, Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:15 (twelve years ago) link
in tiny type, it says Wire Faces Performing As ... though I guess it doesn't say that it's tribute acts to blondie, talking heads et al. would be awesome if someone went to this tiny club thinking they were going to see the ramones, miraculously reunited.
― tylerw, Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:19 (twelve years ago) link
Given the enduring popularity of Hot Topic Ramones & CBGB shirts, it wouldn't actually surprise me to see "The Ramones" -- Marky and a cast of young ringers -- touring state fairs sometime (like the version of Foghat I saw that had only the original drummer, Roger Earl.)
― Blue Doggie Sweater (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:27 (twelve years ago) link
Now you said that, I can just about read it. Usually that's the "Here Goldmid productions presents" line.
Obviously, that's a tribute to Harvey Goldsmith performing as a promoter.
― Mark G, Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
not sure how they're going to play television songs with just three dudes
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
one of those dudes has four arms though. i read up a bit on them and i guess they're a little proggy? or at least mars volta-y. whatever, i'm not going.
― tylerw, Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
― Blue Doggie Sweater (Dan Peterson), Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:27 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
he's been touring around playing a set of Ramones songs w/ a band called Marky Ramone's Blitzkrieg, which i think is totally fine and cool since he's not messing w/ the Ramones name or anything
― Metal Dennis Perrin (some dude), Thursday, 27 October 2011 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
Some new song I guess by Verlaine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h81L7VrFzro
― poxsickle, Saturday, 29 October 2011 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
That's an old Civil War-era folk song. I like the noir-y band arrangement! Maybe an outtake from Songs And Other Things?
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 29 October 2011 22:55 (twelve years ago) link
Oh god. I only just realised the T of Tom and the V of Verlaine = TV = Television. I am the stupidest person alive.
― Jedmond, Sunday, 30 October 2011 00:57 (twelve years ago) link
^^is that supposed to be well-known? Whoa.
― answering_machine, Sunday, 30 October 2011 01:15 (twelve years ago) link
After roughly 23 years of Television fandom, that never occured to me.
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 30 October 2011 02:14 (twelve years ago) link
ha, i think i remember reading an interview w/ either Hell or Verlaine where they said it hadn't occurred to them either! or that the name 'Television' came before Verlaine chose the name Verlaine.
― tylerw, Sunday, 30 October 2011 02:16 (twelve years ago) link
puns that you had missed
― Mayne of Fules (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 30 October 2011 03:08 (twelve years ago) link
i don't even own a television record
― buzza, Sunday, 30 October 2011 04:08 (twelve years ago) link
The Blow-Up, at least on Roir's once notoriously (but no worse than many a homemade) normal bias lo-fi cassette, was better heard as the earlier vinyl boot Arrow (prob ditto the digital Arrow posted on tylerw's blog, along with several other Television and Tom Verlaine sets). Funny, I was just remembering how their (mostly Verlaine and Lloyd's 70s rep as self-destructive and generally shady was summed up as "an ill-natured hippie band" by Creem's Robert Duncan. And how Buffalo Springfield's June 2011 Bonnaroo "Bluebird" epic (currently on YouTube) reminded me of Neil Young, in a very good way (way better than any of the early Springfield extensions of it I've heard so far, incl the one on Retrospective). Then I came across robertchristgau.com's archived 2004 review of reissued MM and Adventure (each with a worthy bonus track, he says) and Old Walrdorf (which he says sounds a lot better than Blow-Up) and he now (or on then, in '04) thinks Verlaine sounds somewhat like Young and Garcia, though not as "raw" as the former, or "clean" as the latter. Refined and dirty, awright! Though xgau also starts by saying Television were doomed to commercial failure because they didn't sound like anyone before or since (h'mmm, maybe he means the overall effect, incl Verlaine's "strangulated" vocals). Also, extended solos were def not favored in emerging 70s punk/pop orthodoxy/trends.
― dow, Sunday, 30 October 2011 06:26 (twelve years ago) link
Oh yeah, the extended Verlaine reissues from a few years back are worth checking too, and the most (?) recently released albums of new material, on Thrill Jockey (but those two should've been pruned and merged into one medium-length set.)
― dow, Sunday, 30 October 2011 06:30 (twelve years ago) link
Oops. I meant the 2011 "Bluebird" reminded me of **Television** in a good way!
― dow, Sunday, 30 October 2011 06:33 (twelve years ago) link
Bluebird was the 'Marquee Moon' (track) of its day, and Buffalo Springfield was the Television of its day. Multiple guitar assault
― answering_machine, Sunday, 30 October 2011 09:00 (twelve years ago) link
here's a bit from the review of that television cover bandWire Faces' performance as Television was one of the great highlights of the evening. Dressed in nerdish art-school clothing, guitarist Ian Haygood looked like Tom Verlain, while drummer Shane Zweygardt sang just like him. Although most of the bands got the crowd bouncing and dancing, Wire Faces held them spellbound with a flawless note-by-note rendition of almost the entire Marquee Moon album. Zweygardt shimmied atop his drumstool while belting out each song with an electrifying energy and incessant mimicry of Verlain's nasally whine.hmm
― tylerw, Monday, 31 October 2011 18:13 (twelve years ago) link
kind of like that new verlaine track! not amazing or anything, but what the hell, i'd like the dude to be more active.
― tylerw, Monday, 31 October 2011 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
God bless the uploader, he just put up a hilarious video of Verlaine & Co messing with mtv brazil:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXaUwo2DSns
― poxsickle, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 03:35 (twelve years ago) link
hee heehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNAvIBKkAJQ&feature=relatedthis is good too. would be interesting if Verlaine did a memoir, though I won't hold my breath.
― tylerw, Thursday, 3 November 2011 15:59 (twelve years ago) link
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1rl1aJY0L1qdivb3o1_500.jpgThis day in 1974: Television plays their first show at CBGB.
― tylerw, Saturday, 31 March 2012 20:21 (twelve years ago) link
& if you're interested in hearing roughly what they sounded like: http://ow.ly/9yMDD
― tylerw, Saturday, 31 March 2012 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
pretty awesome that the "birthplace" of punk originally had such a cornball logo. and "fancy guitar pickin's."
u know what it stands for yeah?
― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Saturday, 31 March 2012 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
ha, yes. still!
― tylerw, Saturday, 31 March 2012 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
Wild Flag did an ace version of "Evil" last night in New Haven as the first song of their encore.
― kwhitehead, Sunday, 1 April 2012 02:06 (twelve years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3rgdiOmCw1qzy30io1_500.gifDave Bowie!
― tylerw, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
He went by that in his "Regular Ol' Dave" period
― Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
That's Dave Bowie, you know, he ran a lamp shop on 53rd and AoftheA's...
― Mark G, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
think they had a quote from Louie Reed on another flyer.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
Louie "Louie Louie" Reed?
― Mark G, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
Dick Lloyd was on fire that night.
― Hierophantiasis (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:10 (eleven years ago) link
hee hee. btw i've re-upped that television compilation i made featuring, um, dick hell. http://ow.ly/aNKo3 in case anyone didn't get it the first time around.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
Was it a minutemen or firehose song where watt says 'dick hell'?
― Hierophantiasis (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.wikipedia.org/DavidBowie/RegularOlDave
During this exceedlingly brief, little-known period of his career, Bowie gained 20 pounds and began wearing sweatshirts, baseball caps and jeans. He wrote several songs for a planned country-influenced album, "Just a Good Ol' Bowie," none of which he ever recorded.
― Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
If I click on that link, will I be rickrolled?
― Fule Runnings (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
Last '/' should be a '#' I think.
― NSFW Australia (seandalai), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
holy SHIT! The Portland 78 show has by far the best version of MM I've ever heard, like a million times better than the studio one, any one, just. WOW.
― Iago Galdston, Saturday, 12 May 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
The Portland show is amazing. Unlike the Waldorf show all of the stuff from Adventure has a real tension as well as intention. Also there are about twenty people in the audience.
― broom air, Sunday, 13 May 2012 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
MARQUEE MOON - LIVE! http://ow.ly/bj0k4
― tylerw, Friday, 1 June 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks for this, anticipating eagerly.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 1 June 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
oh cool
is there any comprehensive collection of Television's '70s live repertoire of songs that ended up on neither MM nor Adventure? been reading the 33 1/3 on MM and wow they discarded a lot of songs on the way to making that album.
― some dude, Saturday, 2 June 2012 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
god there are so many... I think tyler maybe put up a collection on his blog?
just search the "Poor Circulation" boot, there's at least half a dozen on there.
― sleeve, Saturday, 2 June 2012 00:48 (eleven years ago) link
some dude, search doom and gloom from the tomb for the comp "I was hearing, hearing something else": it's a really thorough round up of stuff that influenced them, their contemporaries, and lots and lots of their own stuff that didn't make it onto the records iirc
― Iago Galdston, Saturday, 2 June 2012 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
sweet thx
― some dude, Saturday, 2 June 2012 01:32 (eleven years ago) link
yeah some dude - here's the richard hell years: http://ow.ly/aNKo3 and here's the post-richard hell years "lost songs": http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/5667774473/kingdom-come-the-lost-television-album-dont-get
― tylerw, Saturday, 2 June 2012 02:09 (eleven years ago) link
evidently Television had quite a young following in Argentina.
― nerve_pylon, Saturday, 2 June 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
weird!
― tylerw, Saturday, 2 June 2012 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
So Lloyd went completely apeshit again: horrible gig, insulting Billy Ficca and his bassist, throwing drinks at Ficca, hitting women and eventually being taken away to a hospital. Wrong meds, or so I heard.I really wish someone close to him would start caring about this instead of letting himself ruin his livelihood and reputation like this.
― poxsickle, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
eek! yeah, what is up w/ him these days. maybe ficca is looking out for him to some extent -- not like he's going out on the road w/ him for the big bucks, i assume. though if lloyd is throwing drinks at him, that might not last.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2012/06/12/concert-review-richard-lloyd-at-the-grog-shop
Shortly before taking the stage, Lloyd and Ficca started shouting, appeared to shove each other and then threw their respective drinks at one another. Lloyd walked up to the microphone and pleaded Ficca to still play despite the fight. “You quitting or playing? I want you play. I love you like a brother,” he told Ficca. “Yeah, like Cain loved Abel,” responded Ficca. After a short stand-off, Ficca finally acquiesced, and the band opened with the Lloyd tune “I Thought,” an anxiety-ridden song that bristled a little more than usual. At the song’s conclusion, Lloyd muttered, “I’m so tired of the crap I have to put up with.” While he appeared intoxicated, he maintained that wasn’t the case. “I’m high on life,” he yelled.Even after delivering spot-on renditions of the Television tracks “Friction” and “Elevation,” Lloyd was still simmering. “I take all the blame,” he said while tuning in front of his amp with his back to his audience. The show was so sparsely attended, however, that even when Lloyd didn’t speak into the microphone, you could still hear what he was saying. He sounded like someone with Tourette Syndrome as he muttered random things about Gamma Rays and DNA tests. Before playing the tune “Monkey,” he said, “monkey see, but monkey don’t do,” alluding to the fact that he wasn’t happy with the performance of his band mates.
Even after delivering spot-on renditions of the Television tracks “Friction” and “Elevation,” Lloyd was still simmering. “I take all the blame,” he said while tuning in front of his amp with his back to his audience. The show was so sparsely attended, however, that even when Lloyd didn’t speak into the microphone, you could still hear what he was saying. He sounded like someone with Tourette Syndrome as he muttered random things about Gamma Rays and DNA tests. Before playing the tune “Monkey,” he said, “monkey see, but monkey don’t do,” alluding to the fact that he wasn’t happy with the performance of his band mates.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link
ugh, sucks. from people i've talked to, ficca is one of the nicest dudes from that scene, lloyd must really be off the rails.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
hitting women
so they gave him the "i abuse women" meds. oops!
― am0n, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
It's really hard to keep manic depressives on their meds. They start to really miss the cosmic high of their manic phases.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, it's gotta be the sort of thing where lloyd *knows* he did his best work off of meds (and high as a kite).
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNmEq-cP9Oodon't really understand this but maybe the guitaristos out there can dig it.
― tylerw, Friday, 13 July 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
what is that distinctive guitar sound on little johnny jewel, very "close up" aurally--it kind of sounds like when i would plug an electric guitar directly into the 4-track...does anyone get what i mean? such a bizarre song...
― Iago Galdston, Sunday, 15 July 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
the "official" version of LJJ I mean
i think that is exactly what it is -- a guitar plugged straight into the recording device. it is a weird sound for sure -- doesn't really sound like anything else, which i gather is what Verlaine was going for.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
i love how that solo sounds like it is always falling apart...i always think, i can play something that sounds vaguely like that but it never works. and i actually like the way that the solo sounds almost divorced from the backing track, although maybe that was just poor production? anyway, i am sort of obsessed with LJJ right now!
― Iago Galdston, Sunday, 15 July 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
it's a pretty lo-fi recording and the mix is definitely strange. i heard the blow up version of LJJ first and was kind of taken aback by the single on first listen. love it though. the feelies did the direct plug-in thing a bit on crazy rhythms too -- don't know if it was because they knew television had done it, but i wouldn't be surprised.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
Wild Flag opened its Pitchfork fest set with a dead-on "See No Evil."
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
That bizarro guitar sound, by the way, barely sounds like an electric. I guess it could be or most likely is, but it almost sounds like a nylon string or something, or even a prepared guitar...
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks, all. I never thought it might not even be an electric...interesting!
― Iago Galdston, Sunday, 15 July 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
Regarding the Feelies...in the early days, both live and in the studio, and their music was really fierce. You hear the live bootlegs and the pre Crazy Rhythms studio recordings and they're pretty punk rock. Only when it was time to do the LP did they suddenly decide to be really different and do everything direct I think. I think it was an iconoclastic thing where they wanted to be different from everyone else and not sound like another punk rock band. At the time the LP annoyed some of their fans and associates I think, because it didn't represent how they sounded then, and I think now they even have some regret that they didn't keep working the way they had and capture their sound as it was at the time. Of course many of their fans, myself included, think Crazy Rhythms is one of the best and most unique rock records ever.
― dan selzer, Sunday, 15 July 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnUHuYIEjAk
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
My session guy guitar teacher says this, re: the LJJ sound:
"It's as clean as it gets…… Tele into the board direct? 0.0 effects too…Very present and angular… If it's in an amp, the amp is barely even on…………. "
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
He also noted it was like a template for the Talking Heads guitar sound.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
verlaine's original conception for their debut was to just record live at rudy van gelder's studio, playing live like a jazz group. but i guess the rest of the band (and perhaps elektra) nixed that and they and hired the dude who engineered for led zep and the stones. good decision in the long run, i think.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
The story the band tells is that Glyn Johns would have a couple of bottles of wine to start out with, then after he inevitably passed out the group produced themselves.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah the liners to the rhino re-ish talk about johns coming in, mic-ing the drums and out comes john bonham's drum sound. and the band is like noooooooo. still would be interesting to hear a bonham sound on marquee moon.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
re: the feelies, interesting that terry ork managed them in their early days, as he did w/ television. guy had good taste. there are apparently some feelies "ork sessions" from 1977 that remain unreleased. i found something that was labeled "ork sessions" but they seem to be early live recordings, not studio demos.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
also, the intro to "loveless love" seems like an extension of johnny jewel's second part.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
Except it was Glyn's brother Andy.
― Chuck? Chuck? It's me, your cousin, Marvin D (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 July 2012 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
Close enough. Point made.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
If some home DJ out there could remix a Bonham sound from Television tracks now, that might well be groovy--but back then, not so much a punk-beyond-punk, in-yo-face move like these cosmic epic solo junkies of CBGB's were already known for--as something ridiculously self-inflated, since Zep was seeming a bit overexposed, to put it mildly (I wuz there, and still liked 'em, but like many younger rockheads ready to give all arena dinosaurs a rest, or at least give Television's Dead x VU missing links a shot). Eno said that his duo albums with Fripp were just guitars plugged directly into the board.
― dow, Sunday, 15 July 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
Although he might have messed with the mixes later. Isn't Le Noise board-direct, with Lanois adding at least some effects in real time?
― dow, Sunday, 15 July 2012 20:09 (eleven years ago) link
The Beatles' "Revolution" is board-direct, with the distortion coming from the levels in the red.
― Chuck? Chuck? It's me, your cousin, Marvin D (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 July 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
here's the feelies' glenn mercer on recording direct: we had a lot of problems getting a good guitar sound in the studio. We tried everything. Different amps, different rooms. Pretty much exhausted everything we could at the studio we were at. Mark Ambel, the co-producer of that record, said "why don't we record the guitar direct and feed them back to an amp when we're ready to mix?" We were scheduled to mix in a better studio. He told us that we'd get a much better sound there. So we were recording the guitars and doing it direct, which is like a rule. NEVER RECORD THE GUITARS DIRECT. It sounded really dry and dead. But we really started actually to like the sound. A lot of the guitars on the record were kept that way. We actually found that when you record direct, it's a little bit closer to your ear. You have the space of the speaker and the ambience of the mike when you're recording it. A lot of what people think are acoustic guitars are just electric guitars recorded direct. A kind of dry sound.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 20:37 (eleven years ago) link
but re: television, yeah i wouldn't change a thing about marquee moon -- to me it's the perfect mix of a minimalist approach and just a straight-ahead 70s classic rock guitar thing.
― tylerw, Sunday, 15 July 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
That Wild Flag video is fantastic.
― kornrulez6969, Sunday, 15 July 2012 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
Do not mix a Bonham drum track onto Marquee Moon. Now!
― Mark G, Sunday, 15 July 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
Another thing making the single of "Little Johnny Jewel" so striking at the time, was having pts.1 & 2, the well-earned confidence of that--like "Tom Joad," which was maybe 7 minutes total, but pt. 1 ended at just the right point, and the whole thing, whole lives, flew by so lucidly (Happy 100th BDay Woody G! Television should cover you someday)
― dow, Sunday, 15 July 2012 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
xpost Doubt Le Noise is direct at all (nor does it sound it). Neil loves his amps.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 15 July 2012 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
dudes i'm contributing live rarity kinda things to this site now. first up is of course, television: http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2012/09/12/television-live-the-whisky-a-go-go-los-angeles-1977/
― tylerw, Friday, 14 September 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
cool! this is a great set.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 14 September 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks for the live show...very nice. Kind of interesting cover of "Friction" here, by some ex-no wavers and early indie-rockers. (A few steps required to listen...still trying to get the mp3.)
http://www.sensitiveskinmagazine.com/timber-released-unreleased/
― dlp9001, Saturday, 15 September 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
article doesn't mention Rick Brown's origins in Information.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 15 September 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/cbgb-drama-rock-club_n_1677947.html
great quote here from Chris Frantz:
I don't think Tom ever recommended any band to play CBGBs and certainly not Talking Heads. I was the one who approached Hilly on our band's behalf. As far as I know, Tom Verlaine has never done a single favor for anyone...not even himself.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 15 September 2012 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
hmm, never heard this song covered before. sounds pretty okhttp://soundcloud.com/tennisinc/tennis-guiding-light/s-LJyOL
― tylerw, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
Foxhole:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=6sCQ0hEYhZE&NR=1
― Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 31 December 2012 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
英国音楽 / VINYL JAPAN very proudly presents【 TELEVISION 】来日決定!!!!!!!<TOM VERLAINE / BILLY FICCA / FRED SMITH / JIMMY RIP>MAY 02 ( THU ) 下北沢 GARDENMAY 03 ( FRI ) 吉祥寺 CLUB SEATA福岡&大阪も詳細は、近日中。
― tylerw, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago) link
I've never seen that Foxhole clip before. I got chills!
― Rocking Disco Santa (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
There *should* be a TOTP clip of "Prove It", but it got wiped by the BBC, and for some reason I never saw it at the time.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, that clip is great, tho it always depresses me that there's no other pro shot footage of the band in the 70s.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 23:36 (eleven years ago) link
yeah the foxhole was staple tipsy on youtube viewing for me for some time. but dang, would love to see them doing prove it, or jsut about anything else really from that time, it's a tragedy
― arby's, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
those Japan shows are the first ones I've heard of in quite awhile. Two years, maybe even?
― ~farben~ (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
yeah they played in south america two years ago? lloyd-less television still seems bizarre...
― tylerw, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
I saw a Lloyd-less Television in Central Park a few years back. Lackluster.
― kwhitehead, Thursday, 10 January 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
That Central Park show wasn't very good. Except when they played the new material. I do have confidence that the Rip-for-Lloyd lineup can be great, based off the decades of telepathic interplay verlaine has had with Rip in his solo projects. But if it jells it's gonna be Rip as sound painter for Verlaine's foreground, not a yin/yang like it was with Lloyd.
― ~farben~ (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, ripp is great, the bootlegs from the 80s are fucking incredible. i mean, it basically comes down to verlaine now, whether he's interested in playing or not. maybe without lloyd he'll feel he has a little more to prove? i don't know, that dude doesn't care about anything.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
bit harsh, tyler - few years ago i saw verlaine and ripp perform a really nice intimate duo show together (in the 100 Club in London) and he was much more relaxed, happier, engaged than i've ever seen him w/ Television (tho' of course the palpable on-stage tension between him and lloyd did make things v inneresting...)
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
When he actually gets on a stage or in a studio, he commits. But he really is one of the hardest to motivate motherfuckers in all Manhattan.
― ~farben~ (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
ha, yeah, i was just kidding. mostly. verlaine just seems like a hard guy to pin down. i've watched one of those duo shows on youtube and it was great.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
And I feel like I get why, just from his body of lyrics. He's such a symbolist that he'd rather just sit around and dream. Actually doing things is way too explicit.
xpost to self
― ~farben~ (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
haha, yeah.
meanwhile, here's lloyd's latest missive on facebook:
Here is a link to my blog entitled Yoga, Hypnosis and Gurdjieff. I invite everyone who wishes to participate to simply add comments from which exchanges may form, as crystals form in salt water. "If thy salt is lost it's savor, what good is it - only to throw to the swine and let them trample it underfoot." So please do contribute even if you know nothing of the subjects. There is no better way to learn as to teach, and as teaching is part of my calling, I am at the ready. --Richard Lloyd.
[link doesn't work]
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
classic
― ~farben~ (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
lollloh in case anyone didn't get it, this comp of hell-era Television stuff is still available: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/18962115402/television-a-season-in-hell-soooo-heres-ahell's autobio/memoir is out sometime soon...
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
weirdness:
Richard LloydThis coming Monday, the 14th, the song "Guiding Light" is to be featured in the hit comedy series "How I Met Your Mother" 8 PM Eastern Time. If you are a fan of the show, or of Marquee Moon, from which the song is taken, be sure to watch and enjoy!
― tylerw, Friday, 11 January 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
Hope it will be in one of How I Met's Canadian 80s teen-tween show-within-the-show eps, or do they still do those? Only times I could stand to watch.
― dow, Friday, 11 January 2013 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
The expanded Verlaine solo reissues from sev. years back feat. worthy input from Ripp, often enough.
― dow, Friday, 11 January 2013 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
wait a second, WHAT expanded Verlaine solo reissues? If there's been anything but straight no-bonuses reissues I wanna know about it???
― the dyspeptic Hirax (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 January 2013 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry, don't have 'em at hand and gotta get to work, but look 'em up---I'll try to find the promo package when home again (I don't remember any revelatory bonuses though, which may be why I didn't try to review--do remember good sound, but whether better than reissues you have I dunno, haven't heard more)
― dow, Friday, 11 January 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah thx lemme know! The only ones I know of are the Collector's Choice of Flash Light and S/T (no bonuses) and back in the late 90s the Infinite Zero reiss of Dreamtime (which did have a bonus or two). The Miller's Tale 2CD had its share of rarities, of course, most significantly 3 tracks from the 'Lost Album' and the first non-defective CD version of 'Five Miles of You'.
― the dyspeptic Hirax (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 January 2013 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
Been listening to the self-titled a lot lately. What a great record. Totally slept on, and I feel would have been better received it had been released 10 or more years later.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 February 2013 22:48 (eleven years ago) link
Correct on all counts. I love that album so much.
― try a little crowleymass (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 14 February 2013 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it's a nice one -- weirdly i read somewhere (can't remember now) michael stipe repping for it, "rhyme" in particular.
― tylerw, Thursday, 14 February 2013 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
o wait i found it -- http://popsongs.wordpress.com/category/ask-michael-stipe/
I’m curious what songs you’ve heard in your life that made you just drop whatever you were doing and go, “You know, why can’t I write a song like this,” or, perhaps, “Damn, I wish I had written that.”
short list: Birdland, One, Beautiful Day, Man Who Sold the World, Ashes to Ashes, Karma Police, Rhyme[by Television], and more recently l.e.s. artistes
― tylerw, Thursday, 14 February 2013 22:56 (eleven years ago) link
someday i'm going to have to put together the 4th television album, since verlaine refuses.
― tylerw, Thursday, 14 February 2013 22:59 (eleven years ago) link
Hope someday comes soon...
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 15 February 2013 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
The title of the record should be Verlaine Refuses.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, 15 February 2013 00:39 (eleven years ago) link
there was one someone did a while ago called Call Mr. Lloyd
― tylerw, Friday, 15 February 2013 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
Been collecting 1992 tour gigs just because I can't get enough of that record
― Brakhage, Friday, 15 February 2013 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
... and I'm glad I read this whole thread because this whole time I was imagining Verlaine as the lead guitarist
― Brakhage, Friday, 15 February 2013 05:24 (eleven years ago) link
this 1993 NC show is killer: http://ow.ly/jhY2I when they were on during that first reunion tour, they were amazing.
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 March 2013 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
Really enjoyable new review of Hell's autobio, which I gotta get---linked on this ancient, still worthy thread:richard hell takes apart poor journalist
― dow, Thursday, 21 March 2013 23:27 (eleven years ago) link
Wow thanks tyler for the 93 show, I didn't have that one
― Brakhage, Friday, 22 March 2013 03:48 (eleven years ago) link
yesterday...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR3q6RegGHs
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 19 April 2013 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
cooool. even w/o lloyd, still sounding pretty good.
― tylerw, Friday, 19 April 2013 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
when they were on during that first reunion tour, they were amazing.
Yes. I saw them in Washington DC and they were good in a way few bands ever are. Saw them about 10 years later and they were awful.
― kornrulez6969, Friday, 19 April 2013 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i have a couple really bizarre early 00s shows where they seem to have forgotten how to play.
― tylerw, Friday, 19 April 2013 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
― tylerw, Friday, April 19, 2013 2:58 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lloyd may still be living in mpls, he played some weird show here a couple years ago, had an ad on our craigslist for guitar lessons....um i'm not sure how functional he is these days
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 April 2013 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
Who's replaced Lloyd?
― If you tolerate Bis, then Kenickie will be next (ithappens), Friday, 19 April 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
Great blog by Richard Williams
― If you tolerate Bis, then Kenickie will be next (ithappens), Friday, 19 April 2013 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
i think that's jimmy rip on second guitar. he's a session guy who's collaborated with verlaine off and on. very skilled but not nearly as manic as lloyd.
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 19 April 2013 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
yeah jimmy ripp has been verlaine's second guitarist outside of television for 30+ years now. he knows the parts.
― tylerw, Friday, 19 April 2013 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
saw them in london in the early 00s and they were soooooo boring. broke my heart as they've always been one of my favourite bands, but they were so... tasteful. like, knopfleresque.
― media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Friday, 19 April 2013 22:33 (eleven years ago) link
i have a few good 00s shows by them, seems like it all depends on whether verlaine is interested in being there, which is probably only half of the time.
― tylerw, Friday, 19 April 2013 22:39 (eleven years ago) link
had an ad on our craigslist for guitar lessons
u should hit him up
― flopson, Friday, 19 April 2013 22:50 (eleven years ago) link
i follow him on facebook, he's always asking for students, even via skype, i think.
― tylerw, Friday, 19 April 2013 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
Which show Steve? QEH or ULU? Cos I saw them at ULU in maybe 04 and they killed. Finished with an incredible Psychotic Reaction.
The really weird one was the first gig in London after the reformation, at the Forum in 94 (or 93. I don't recall). Maybe 200 people there. Upstairs closed, downstairs almost completely empty. Verlaine asked for some blue light, and then the whole show was played under two blue spots and nothing else. I recall an amazing Little Johnny Jewel though.
― If you tolerate Bis, then Kenickie will be next (ithappens), Saturday, 20 April 2013 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
It was the Shepherds Bush Empire, April 2001. Seems like I just caught a bad night - wish I'd been at the Forum show you describe, though.
― media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Saturday, 20 April 2013 08:39 (eleven years ago) link
saw them at the tortoise-curated all tomorrow's parties, and at their later ULU show. they were great both times - but the tension between verlaine and lloyd onstage was palpable, particularly at the ATP show, like almost uncomfortably so. the ATP gig started out very well-attended but the crowd soon started to thin out - think television are just a bit too 'sophisticated guitar solos' for the indie kid purists of days. they were much sloppier at the ULU show, but seemed to be enjoying themselves a bit more, and the one new song they played (something like 'sahara'???) was excellent. a year or so later verlaine and rip played a beautiful duo show at the 100 Club on Tottenham Court Road, and i'm not sure that TV has been back since.
― Ward Fowler, Saturday, 20 April 2013 14:35 (eleven years ago) link
new song you mention is probably this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYrTcCBM6hwverlaine's been playing it with and without television since like 1997.
― tylerw, Saturday, 20 April 2013 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
btw looks like you can still grab this -- http://www.earcandyarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/resized/71.jpghttp://www.earcandyarchive.com/?p=24It was 7 years ago that I first heard Tom Verlaine say:“This here’s a newie….goes like this”
And finally a new Television album is nearing completion,albeit without Richard Lloyd, who left to persue TheRadiant Monkey and his own musical vision. So its sheerconjecture as to which of these new TV songs will have madeit into the studio along with replacement, Jimmy Rip.
Here, then, is a compilation of live performances of thosenew songs as performed in recent years. May this serve asa fitting farewell to Mr Lloyd’s involvement with the groupand an appreciation of his contribution to the evolving ofthese new songs.
These are audience recordings so sonic quality is not ideal.However,the passion is all there in the zeros & the ones…
01 I Could Sleep All Day (Washington DC 2003-03-24)02 Rise & Fall (London 2005-06-21)03 Frustration (Sao Paolo 2005-10-25)04 Flower Spasm (London 2005-06-21)05 Balloon (Washington DC 2003-03-24)06 Persia (London 2004-06-23)07 The Sea ((Hamburg 2004-06-18)
bonus tracks:08 Swells Pt 1 / Stars / Swells Pt 2 (Sao Paolo 2005-10-25)09 Stax (Hamburg 2004-06-18)10 Stockhausen Pysche Jam (London 2004-06-23)11 Bowie medley (London 2002-06-1812 Love Theme From Piranha (London 2002-06-18)13 “Hits On TV” (London 2002-06-19)
― tylerw, Saturday, 20 April 2013 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
Jeff Tweedy's wife Sue reportedly gave him lessons with Lloyd for his birthday once.
Can I tell my fave Television story again? Yeah? OK, cool. The last time I saw them, in 1998 or something, they were at the start of "Marquee Moon" when Lloyd broke a string. So as the band played the song, as a trio, he very calmly, and very slowly, moved aside and patiently changed the string. Very. Patiently. Took his sweet time. In fact, didn't strap the guitar back on until the last few seconds of the song. It was hilarious.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 20 April 2013 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
they're doing marquee moon in its entirety in australia this fallhttp://www.atpfestival.com/newsview/1304162359.php
― tylerw, Monday, 22 April 2013 14:52 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH8Iqv6LkVc&feature=player_embeddedweird! last weekend television played "i'm gonna find you" an unreleased tune from 1974. have they been listening to the old bootlegs?
― tylerw, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
Well you know there's this blog they may have stumbled upon
― willem, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
haha, that would be terrifying.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
I'm thinking people need to talk about Adventure more often!
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
let's talk about it! Television played this one last week, which they never did back in the day:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSsXABdBNw
― tylerw, Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:31 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSsXABdBNw
i really like that song. the clientele do a groovy version but it doesn't appear to be on youtube.
― tylerw, Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
Crazy, I've just seen these posts and I'm actually listening to 'The Fire' right now on my copy of Adventure! Great song, and absolutely wonderful guitar work as always. I can see why Adventure tends to get overlooked... it followed up a stone-cold classic in Marquee Moon, and its material is a touch more relaxed, maybe... but the more I listen to it, the more it gets its claws in me. There really isn't a song on Adventure I dislike, for what it's worth!
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
I recall Adventure getting a two star review in UNCUT for the reissue, alone with MM's five stars. Seemed really OTT rather than standing on its own merits (which it has). It's not MM but it's not a two star album either (IMO).
― Master of Treacle, Friday, 26 April 2013 00:12 (eleven years ago) link
Also surprised that, at that time (00s anyway), it seemed Adventure was getting quite a lot of credit on its own whilst keeping things realistic, rather than people dismissing it offhand just because it wasn't MM (and it isn't, but anyway..)
― Master of Treacle, Friday, 26 April 2013 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, that's more than a bit OTT, IMO... I definitely don't think Adventure is a two star record!
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Friday, 26 April 2013 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
finally watched the 1974 tape from ork's loft. verlaine is so animated, jumping around & smiling, kinda reminiscent of thurston moore circa 1983 & in fact the blurry untuned guitar sound resembled sonic youth to a startling degree. huh. too bad hell's mike didn't work but still a revelation.
― screen scraper (m coleman), Friday, 26 April 2013 11:10 (eleven years ago) link
I think my issue with Adventure is how it kinda fizzles out with the last track.
Now, it has the title track to 'end' it, which isn't exactly 'great' but it does what was needed.
C'mon! It has "Foxhole", "Careful" and "Aint that nothing". And "Glory", and and and....
― Mark G, Friday, 26 April 2013 11:16 (eleven years ago) link
Terry Ork's loft rehearsal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcGEcB5M4es
― The Cosimo Code of the Woosters (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 April 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
"Persia" is my new jam
― The Cosimo Code of the Woosters (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 27 April 2013 14:37 (ten years ago) link
yeah it's great, total trance music. i have one version that's close to 20 minutes.
― tylerw, Saturday, 27 April 2013 14:47 (ten years ago) link
Get outta here, the solo is among the best guitar playing I've ever in my life
― Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Saturday, 27 April 2013 14:49 (ten years ago) link
Ever heard that is. LOL. And believe me I've tried to play it.
― Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Saturday, 27 April 2013 14:53 (ten years ago) link
I hate to say this, but Television could be the most underachieving band in the history of rock and roll. All that talent, the immortal debut, and that's pretty much it.
― kornrulez6969, Saturday, 27 April 2013 15:26 (ten years ago) link
xxp: i've always wished for a side-long version of The Dream's Dream
― nerve_pylon, Saturday, 27 April 2013 15:37 (ten years ago) link
"yeah it's great, total trance music. i have one version that's close to 20 minutes."
Ysi?
― brad palsy (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 27 April 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
hate to say this, but Television could be the most underachieving band in the history of rock and roll. All that talent, the immortal debut, and that's pretty much it.
I'm a stan for the '92 album.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 27 April 2013 17:19 (ten years ago) link
Side 2 of Adventure is where I'm at.
― PaulTMA, Saturday, 27 April 2013 17:43 (ten years ago) link
that ork loft youtube is one of my most watched/listened to things of the past month, i think i saw it on tyler's blog
― flopson, Saturday, 27 April 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/f7baf4507ec5c13242a6354ed6219307/tumblr_moc9es222E1qzy30io1_500.png
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 June 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
also i did look for that 20 minute version of "persia" and .... I must have imagined it? Maybe it just felt like 20 minutes.
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 June 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
Ha, those Whisky photos are great. Peter Gabriel looks like he's 12.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Thursday, 13 June 2013 19:41 (ten years ago) link
http://soundcloud.com/nyctaper/wilco-marquee-moon-televisionpretty much note perfect -- if anyone can out-verlaine verlaine, it's nels cline.
― tylerw, Monday, 24 June 2013 15:03 (ten years ago) link
Tweedy is no Television-guitar slouch himself!
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 June 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
hello richard, this is adam. i read that you gave jeff tweedy a guitar lesson and was wondering about some of the things you talked about, seeing as how i love both his and your playing. hopefully you can shed some light on this. i plan on checking out some of the lessons on your site and appreciate them very much!thanks, adam Hello Adam,Thank you for writing, and for your interest in Jeff Tweedy and myself. Unfortunately, private lessons are just that -- private. For that reason, I cannot answer your questions with respect to what might have taken place between us, but we are and have been friends for a rather longtime -- Wilco opened a number of shows for Matthew Sweet many years ago when I was on tour with Matthew. We all became warm friends then and remain so, even though Jeff lives in Chicago and I live in New York. His wife called me a couple of years ago because she wanted to get him a guitar lesson from me for his birthday. So I flew to Chicago and we spend the day together. And I just saw him a month or so ago in Brazil when we both played at the Tim Festival in Rio de Janeiro. Best regards,Richard Lloyd
thanks, adam
Hello Adam,Thank you for writing, and for your interest in Jeff Tweedy and myself. Unfortunately, private lessons are just that -- private. For that reason, I cannot answer your questions with respect to what might have taken place between us, but we are and have been friends for a rather longtime -- Wilco opened a number of shows for Matthew Sweet many years ago when I was on tour with Matthew. We all became warm friends then and remain so, even though Jeff lives in Chicago and I live in New York. His wife called me a couple of years ago because she wanted to get him a guitar lesson from me for his birthday. So I flew to Chicago and we spend the day together. And I just saw him a month or so ago in Brazil when we both played at the Tim Festival in Rio de Janeiro.
Best regards,Richard Lloyd
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/996165_10151512923682690_646880720_n.jpg
― tylerw, Friday, 28 June 2013 02:13 (ten years ago) link
tyler where was this?!
― nerve_pylon, Friday, 28 June 2013 03:43 (ten years ago) link
you should post that stuff to tumblr or facebook so it's easier for me to repost it and get all kinds of cool points.
― dan selzer, Friday, 28 June 2013 03:53 (ten years ago) link
haha, it's on richard's facebook page - he says "This has been one of the posters I have used in the past. Still valid, I teach Guitar and Music theory without recourse to music notation clefs or any reading, which does not suit Guitarists. My student learn to view the Guitar from a new perspective that can completely change the way you look at music itself. PM if interested, --Richard Lloyd."https://www.facebook.com/richard.lloyd1
― tylerw, Friday, 28 June 2013 03:55 (ten years ago) link
tbh i'm sort of interested! i wonder what his rates are.
― tylerw, Friday, 28 June 2013 03:56 (ten years ago) link
the text reminds me of those Dr. Bronner's soap labels.
― nerve_pylon, Friday, 28 June 2013 04:03 (ten years ago) link
yeah! i was thinking it seemed kinda turn of the 20th century. i am fascinated by this sort of thing -- i have a guitarist friend who has some theory of the guitar via mandalas that i definitely do not understand, but sort of like hearing about.
― tylerw, Friday, 28 June 2013 04:07 (ten years ago) link
I thought about that once years ago. It was intimidating though. I actually asked Bob Bannister if he'd be interesting in giving lessons but he passed.
― dan selzer, Friday, 28 June 2013 04:12 (ten years ago) link
i have a guitarist friend who has some theory of the guitar via mandalas that i definitely do not understand, but sort of like hearing about.
His name's not Robbie Basho is it?
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Friday, 28 June 2013 09:11 (ten years ago) link
ha, i actually asked him about basho and he said "who?"
― tylerw, Friday, 28 June 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
Man, would actually be interested in hearing Richard lay this all out. Where does he teach?
― grandavis, Friday, 28 June 2013 14:52 (ten years ago) link
he's in nyc afaik, i think he's said he does skype lessons though.
― tylerw, Friday, 28 June 2013 14:53 (ten years ago) link
Think skype lesson would be a little too crazy for me, but will keep that NYC thought in mind when I get up there. I just bet that it is pretty fun and wild hearing him talk about what he does and getting to ask him questions.
― grandavis, Friday, 28 June 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNmEq-cP9Oo
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lSifKZ80H4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjWFqz1Sjps
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
Hah, thanks man. A window into the experience.
― grandavis, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
My buddy Alex took lessons with him for a couple of years here (NYC). I think he was p affordable.
He was living in mpls-stpl last I heard though?
― Thelema & Louise (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 June 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
I think I watched those videos before but all I remember from them is Richard playing while being like "1 2 5 6 4 1 5 3 5 2 1 4 4 4 5 6 3 5 2 1 6" for about ten minutes.
― Fanois och Alexander (Merdeyeux), Friday, 28 June 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
That's about what I remember
― Pastel City Slang (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 28 June 2013 23:13 (ten years ago) link
a friend took a lesson or two from him. apparently he's very touchy about tv questions or requests to learn tv songs.
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 29 June 2013 01:05 (ten years ago) link
yeah i can see how that would be boring for him -- obviously he's deeply into the theory of the guitar... not how you play "see no evil" but how you come up with the riff to "see no evil" yourself.
― tylerw, Saturday, 29 June 2013 01:52 (ten years ago) link
... or using the guitar to see BEYOND evil
― nerve_pylon, Saturday, 29 June 2013 02:44 (ten years ago) link
He was advertising for new students pretty recently on Facebook too, not sure if he still is.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 29 June 2013 13:41 (ten years ago) link
reading the richard hell autobio now finally and man he does not have any use for richard lloyd at all
also: is billy ficca an underrated drummer? he does some pretty crazy stuff on the television albums
― congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 17 July 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
Seeing ficca live is even more impressive.
― Thelema & Louise (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 17 July 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
he' s not underrated as far as I know
― Mark G, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 20:37 (ten years ago) link
what's the deal with the Hell/Lloyd drama?
― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 18 July 2013 18:11 (ten years ago) link
i don't know the source of it but in the book he basically says lloyd only got into television because he was fucking terry ork and then only talks about how whiny lloyd was all the time
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 18 July 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
So he doesn't mention the fact that he was a fucking awesome guitarist who any band would be delighted to have as a member?
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Friday, 19 July 2013 12:59 (ten years ago) link
well any band apart from Television
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 19 July 2013 13:02 (ten years ago) link
Can easily imagine those two guys not getting along and Tom Verlaine somehow finding a way to make it worse.
― Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 July 2013 13:16 (ten years ago) link
i probably say this about every 70s Television bootleg, but here's one of my faves. second set is all request! http://ow.ly/ojJKj
― tylerw, Tuesday, 27 August 2013 18:26 (ten years ago) link
you do! but they're always great!
― Ottworks SKG (stevie), Wednesday, 28 August 2013 06:26 (ten years ago) link
Television is playing Athens, GA on November 7 and doing all of Marquee Moon. I'd be a dumbass not to attend, right?
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Friday, 30 August 2013 05:02 (ten years ago) link
Whaaaat yes you need to go. It's more like the Tom Verlaine band with ripp replacing Lloyd but they are still amazing. Smith and ripp are the anchors and tv and ficca are the wanderers.
Man I wish I could come down for that. Link?
― Spot Lange (Jon Lewis), Friday, 30 August 2013 14:19 (ten years ago) link
http://www.georgiatheatre.com/
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Friday, 30 August 2013 14:24 (ten years ago) link
Put it this way: There's a 12" single of Tom Verlaine, and on the b-side is a version of "Marquee Moon" performed live in 1987.
Basically, if the band can play, the song plays them.
― Mark G, Friday, 30 August 2013 15:01 (ten years ago) link
I decided the allure of the spectacle vs. my general everyday apathy about Television wasn't enough to spend $30.
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Friday, 30 August 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
Well, if you don't get the album..
Then again, I never got "Horses", but I have the 2CD version with a live performance, and saw the "Rockpalast" performance, and enjoyed both live renditions.
― Mark G, Friday, 30 August 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
if i were anywhere on the east coast, i'd go see that show... seems weird that they'll do "marquee moon" right in the middle of the set after decades of it being the closer.
― tylerw, Friday, 30 August 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
Fuck I wanna goooooo
― i believe we can c.h.u.d. all night (Jon Lewis), Friday, 30 August 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
no idea, but i'd be a little surprised if they didn't schedule a few more US dates?
― tylerw, Friday, 30 August 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link
i just bought my ticket.
― crüt, Friday, 30 August 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
Xpost that's what I'm banking on... Time to go peruse the mm list...
― i believe we can c.h.u.d. all night (Jon Lewis), Friday, 30 August 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
Tyler, think you maybe even let me know this, but Chris Forsyth & The Solar Motel Band are playing a set "as" Television sometime soon in Philly. That band is getting really good live (well, they already are pretty great, but could be really achieving launch in the next couple of months ...). I bet they are gonna kill those Television songs, though seeing Verlaine in person can't really be replicated.
― grandavis, Friday, 30 August 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
yeah i saw that! i know chris is a television superfan, so i can only imagine he's going to do it right. i think he even has taken lessons from lloyd himself.
― tylerw, Friday, 30 August 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
I imagine they are gonna nail the sound at the very least, but both guitarists seem capable of getting some of the magic right as well. Would certainly go if I lived near Philly!
― grandavis, Friday, 30 August 2013 16:17 (ten years ago) link
Television is playing Athens, GA on November 7 and doing all of Marquee Moon.
can't believe I missed this thread revive ... really glad I got tickets before they sold out
― Brad C., Friday, 13 September 2013 18:03 (ten years ago) link
lol, start holding your breath!http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/revamped-television-have-a-new-album-in-the-can-20130920
― tylerw, Friday, 20 September 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
"Marquee Moon" is something of an anti-song, 10 minutes of disciplined disorder, lacking melody and a chorus
"Lacking melody" totally OffTM.
― Low down bad refrigerator (Dan Peterson), Friday, 20 September 2013 16:51 (ten years ago) link
yeahhh, pretty much all of that is wrong? not a lot of "disorder" in there that i can hear.
― tylerw, Friday, 20 September 2013 16:53 (ten years ago) link
it is utterly through-composed except for the solos
― i believe we can c.h.u.d. all night (Jon Lewis), Friday, 20 September 2013 17:00 (ten years ago) link
and i mean, the "chorus" is the "life in the hive" bit, right? it repeats three times, after each verse...
― tylerw, Friday, 20 September 2013 17:03 (ten years ago) link
Meanwhile, 16 songs frontman Tom Verlaine and the band recorded in December 2007 await vocals and mixing, though a release date is still not scheduled.
OK so the situation has not changed since those Facebook posts from Jimmy Rip a year or two ago. Oh well. At least this article had a few comments from the engineer who recorded the sessions.
― i believe we can c.h.u.d. all night (Jon Lewis), Friday, 20 September 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
haha, yeah. btw y'all should check out this recent johnny jewel cover - https://soundcloud.com/solar-motel-band/03-little-johnny-jewel it is pretty awesome
― tylerw, Friday, 20 September 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
i liked the detail that TV favors low powered amps in the studio.
― i believe we can c.h.u.d. all night (Jon Lewis), Friday, 20 September 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
while i wait for this new television album, i'm going to drink bottle after bottle of fred smith's artisanal wine - http://www.cereghinosmith.com/
― tylerw, Friday, 20 September 2013 17:47 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, totally. I remember bringing one of their songs to my guitar teacher, who spent a few minutes on it before basically telling totally awful me, yeah, sorry, no way, this is completely, elaborately through-composed and would take us hours.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 20 September 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYtj6FAdVBc
― tylerw, Friday, 20 September 2013 17:52 (ten years ago) link
That kid with the green Mosrite or whatever is my new hero.
― Marlo Poco (Phil D.), Friday, 20 September 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
short Verlaine interviews a-poppin'!
http://www.beat.com.au/music/televisionhttp://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/review/creating-new-waves/story-fn9n8gph-1226684923004http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/features/37044/We_interviewed_Televisions_Tom_Verlaine_it_didnt_go_so_well
There's even some valuable nuggets here and there. One particularly striking bit where he describes how he used to write in the early TV days. And, of course, lots of cussedness, bloody-minded evasion and sphinxery.
― i believe we can c.h.u.d. all night (Jon Lewis), Friday, 27 September 2013 22:05 (ten years ago) link
lol at that last one...
― tylerw, Friday, 27 September 2013 23:00 (ten years ago) link
Yeah he was pretty hard on that kid in his clamlike way
― play on, El Chugadero, play on (Jon Lewis), Friday, 27 September 2013 23:56 (ten years ago) link
That kid was a pretty shitty interviewer, tbh
― THIZZ VAN LEER @_@ (lpz), Saturday, 28 September 2013 06:16 (ten years ago) link
He got a little out of Tom on his(the kid's) pet interests
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 28 September 2013 16:37 (ten years ago) link
Wonder if Verlaine prefers Fearless or Witness
― Master of Treacle, Saturday, 28 September 2013 18:39 (ten years ago) link
another one - a verlaine media blitz!kind of cute that he actually says nice things about the teenage band doing marquee moonhttp://themusic.com.au/interviews/all/2013/09/04/television-tom-verlaine/19031/Recently he was surprised by a YouTube link sent to him by Television bass player Fred Smith. The footage featured a band of teenagers covering Television’s title track from the 1977 album Marquee Moon. “What’s incredible is that it’s the best version I’ve ever heard anybody play,” Verlaine continues. “The bass player loses it a bit but the two guitar players, for being that young, play it really good. The singer is a girl, which is really strange; I don’t know what to make of the girl’s voice. But I thought, ‘Geez, these two guitar guys really got this thing down’.”
― tylerw, Monday, 30 September 2013 21:27 (ten years ago) link
There he mentions the piano thing again, him taking the right hand part and RL taking the left hand. That strikes me as a v revealing piece of process trivia. Has he talked abt that before this recent spate of articles?
― play on, El Chugadero, play on (Jon Lewis), Monday, 30 September 2013 23:29 (ten years ago) link
mm, would like that youtube link.
― Mark G, Monday, 30 September 2013 23:44 (ten years ago) link
scroll up!
― tylerw, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:30 (ten years ago) link
he has talked about that composition technique in regards to "venus" i think, just figuring out the interlocking guitar parts.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:31 (ten years ago) link
did an ilxor say hi to me at the Athens show? (bl0unt??) if so, sorry dude, i was kinda freaked out b/c i hadn't been in athens in 3 years & i didn't recognize you. didn't realize till after i'd walked away that it might have been someone from on here.
― Tip from Tae Kwon Do: (crüt), Friday, 8 November 2013 06:54 (ten years ago) link
Excellent show, I even enjoyed the endless tuning .... "Psychotic Reaction" was not what I was expecting as an encore!
― Brad C., Friday, 8 November 2013 13:30 (ten years ago) link
Awesome.
― Trip Maker, Friday, 8 November 2013 14:52 (ten years ago) link
Wow to that encore.
Is blOunt still here on ilx?
― curmudgeon, Friday, 8 November 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
was playing the roof of the georgia theatre last week and was soooo bummed that i was not going to see them. i dunno, the clips/recordings of the band post-Lloyd have sounded pretty solid, almost as though Verlaine is stepping up a bit more, as opposed to just letting Lloyd do the heavy lifting.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 November 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
Psycho Reaction was the encore at the 2004 Irving Plaza shows
― Linda Darmstadt (Jon Lewis), Friday, 8 November 2013 16:19 (ten years ago) link
he is now known as "balls" xxp
― sleeve, Friday, 8 November 2013 16:25 (ten years ago) link
xp they've been doing it pretty much since the beginning -- i think verlaine has said it's his favorite rock song.
― tylerw, Friday, 8 November 2013 16:26 (ten years ago) link
ps, this 76 show has been around for a while, but this version is apparently speed corrected/remastered for what it's worth - http://dbs-repercussion.blogspot.com/2013/11/tele-vision-new-york-city-december-1977.html
― tylerw, Friday, 8 November 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link
1976, despite what the URL says
Thanks
― curmudgeon, Friday, 8 November 2013 16:43 (ten years ago) link
Here's another clue for you allThe Georgian was balls
― The Killer Inside Meme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 8 November 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
Richard Lloyd went to Stuyvesant? How did I not know this? Did you know, tylerw?
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 10 November 2013 06:00 (ten years ago) link
Or was this just a rumor started by Lester Bangs and Dave Marsh?
― Pazz & Jop 1280 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 10 November 2013 06:03 (ten years ago) link
two shows in brooklyn thanksgiving weekend 11/29 and 11/30. Tickets on sale friday. AYEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 November 2013 16:56 (ten years ago) link
happy for you but also ;-( for me
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 16:57 (ten years ago) link
Man, I'm really on the fence about trying to see them. But if Lloyd was still in the band, I wouldn't think twice about going.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 20 November 2013 17:00 (ten years ago) link
I went to both Tom Verlaine Band shows at Bowery Ballroom in whenever that was (07?) and it was transcendent. This is the same group except with ficca. Think of it this way, smith and rip are the anchors now, the landscape guys; verlaine and ficca are the wildcards.
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 November 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
there are at least 10 youtubes up from 2013 performances to enter into evidence.
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 November 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
esp recommend the argentina Guiding Light.
yeah, regardless of what it's called, seeing verlaine/ficca/smith onstage together is going to be worth it
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 17:44 (ten years ago) link
there haven't been any Television shows without Ficca, have there? certainly hope not. i would go for sure if i wasn't going there this weekend for WFMU.
― nerve_pylon, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 17:53 (ten years ago) link
i don't think Ficca has ever been absent. nerve_pylon, I got an email a few months back from a dude who knows you, talking about tapes he might have of Television way back when...any movement on that? Let's make it happen.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 18:00 (ten years ago) link
let's email jon lewis on that when someth happens
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 November 2013 18:06 (ten years ago) link
;)
BTW verlaine's drummer on that last solo album and tour has since passed away. Sad. He was a big guy but did not look v old.
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 November 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
oh no kidding? that is a bummer.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 18:15 (ten years ago) link
I heard a set with Jimmy Rip the other day from around the other day presumably. Just doesn't seem to have the same hypnotic magic as the band did with Lloyd. Could be a couple of things including being 35 years since the more hypnotic material was recorded, but I think they still had some of that when they came back in 92 and possibly the last Lloyd tour. Shame, I should have made sure I saw them back when i had a chance to with Lloyd.
Well i have the live sets from the 70s anyway. Shame there isn't more visual footage of them from then though.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 20 November 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
ERRATUM: the guiding light on youtube i mentioned is san francisco, not buenos aires
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 November 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
So I don't know how to make a playlist on youtube but yesterday I added all the videos of 2013 TV performances to my favorites list. About half are from the south american dates from this spring and half are from the dates of the last few weeks, particularly san francisco. My youtube user name is jpl725 so if you go to my favorites list these should be the first dozen or so videos you see.
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 21 November 2013 17:12 (ten years ago) link
cool, thanks, Jon! listening to this new Rhys Chatham LP and there are some verrrrrry Television-y moments on the first track.
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 November 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
Just spent 50 minutes trying to get tickets on ticketmaster's site and now it looks like both nights are sold out ;_;
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Friday, 22 November 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
ouch!
― sleeve, Friday, 22 November 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
depressed
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Friday, 22 November 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
duuuuude, no! where is the show, is it in a tiny place or something?
― tylerw, Friday, 22 November 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
yeah. The new Rough Trade store in Brooklyn has a performance space. Just 300 ppl, supposedly. Became aware of that last night so we were going at it as soon as the sale went up but just got the spinning wheel of "Searching for tickets" until it was too late.
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Friday, 22 November 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
that's a bummer -- 3-2-1 til scalpers start selling 'em?
― tylerw, Friday, 22 November 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
only one on craigslist so far but I would suppose so yeah
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Friday, 22 November 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
hey jon - i may have a spare for the friday. would you be interested?
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 22 November 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
hell yes (though I do hate to leave my partner in crime behind, but... hell yes). I am at joncroaker (at) g m a i l (dot) com
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Friday, 22 November 2013 18:03 (ten years ago) link
'92 Television show was prob the first one where i saw a lotta '70s ppl w/ gray hair
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 November 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
haha i am a 70s person with no hair. sent you a message, jon.
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 22 November 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
Just in case a spam filter snags me: I wrote you back in the resounding affirmative. :D
― Pressgang Wolf (Jon Lewis), Friday, 22 November 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link
finally getting around to richard hell's book, pretty interesting stuff, though it is funny that (at least in Hell's hindsight) he and verlaine were pretty much done with each other after Television's first gig. also strange that hell has nothing good to say about richard lloyd. especially since i just listened to marquee moon yesterday and holy cow, lloyd's guitar sound remains celestial.
― tylerw, Monday, 9 December 2013 23:41 (ten years ago) link
y'know, if i had a sore point with their show at rough trade, it was jimmy rip's slavish imitation of lloyd's sound on marquee moon. he played a tele through all kinds of pedals. really nailed the sound to a t. then when it came time to improvise, instead of lloyd's pythagorean modal whatsis, out came some bendy technique-heavy studio guitarist stuff. who's he gonna impress with that? not a house full of television fans.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 00:56 (ten years ago) link
yeah, some of Ripp's solos on the sydney show don't quite mesh, even though he's sticking to the basic structure of most of Lloyd's stuff. of course, I thought that occasionally when Lloyd was in the band during the 00s. He sometimes slipped into those chopsy show offy moments too. i actually liked Ripp's mid-song lead on 1880 or So.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
I think Hell's gripes about Lloyd are more to do with his personality rather than his guitar playing
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
oh yeah definitely, but he doesn't even give Lloyd the obligatory "but boy he sure could play that guitar". I guess when Hell was in the band Lloyd might not've really figured out his sound yet.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
mm, self evident?
― Mark G, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
https://31.media.tumblr.com/4705d710d6e75a094343cf89d47dd45d/tumblr_mya7o5iS8i1s4tb5bo1_400.jpgkind of funny that they got the album title and the single title wrong, but i would've liked to see this bill.
― tylerw, Monday, 23 December 2013 23:30 (ten years ago) link
Any Only Ones shows up?
― dow, Monday, 23 December 2013 23:53 (ten years ago) link
only only ones bootleggy kinda thing i have is from (i think) 1979. And the quality is kind of bad iirc.
― tylerw, Monday, 23 December 2013 23:57 (ten years ago) link
Never did get into that late 70s American-issued comp, Special View, but hoped some shows might show me the way to their critically-acclaimed specialness--think it was mainly Peter P.'s voice what put me off.
― dow, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 00:02 (ten years ago) link
i love 'em but his voice may indeed be an acquired taste. but then again, so is verlaine's! Their BBC sessions are awesome.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 00:03 (ten years ago) link
I always liked Verlaine's voice! It suits his good-to-great stuff perfectly; can't save the weaker stuff, but there's not too much weaker stuff and that's the law of the jungle anyway. I'll check TOO's BBC Sessions, thanks.
― dow, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 00:09 (ten years ago) link
Television to take off! To The Great White North
http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs126/1102271303916/img/1069.png
― dow, Wednesday, 29 January 2014 23:09 (ten years ago) link
weird lineup
― tylerw, Wednesday, 29 January 2014 23:15 (ten years ago) link
The first album popped up on random shuffle yesterday. Man, the drums on that thing are every bit the equal of the guitars.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 30 January 2014 02:29 (ten years ago) link
When I saw the two tiny venue Brooklyn shows in November, I was really able to get a good look at what ficca was doing. So amazing. The way he takes advantage of the sides of the drums is so cool. He'll drag the stick along those metal ribs (excuse my ignorance, these are for tuning, right?) to get a rapid series of rim shots, for example.
― grape is the flavor of my true love's hair (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 30 January 2014 12:14 (ten years ago) link
xp Late response but one's best intro to The Only Ones is the Peel Sessions comp.
There's all these interesting fests popping up in the Midwest too. Television is at Big Ears Festival in Knoxville. Check out the lineup: http://www.bigearsfestival.com/
Then there's this, but without Televivion (Earth is playing both):
http://www.missionfreak.com/assets/overlay-e1af1a2b621ffc19de03121063a7c839.jpg
― Fastnbulbous, Thursday, 30 January 2014 13:05 (ten years ago) link
I often wondered how he did those 'rimshot rolls'
― Mark G, Sunday, 2 February 2014 10:49 (ten years ago) link
Hmmm what are the pros and cons of going to see Television in 2014 if I rate Marquee Moon about 8 out of 10 for personal enjoyment and haven't heard much else of theirs?
― Call the Cops, Sunday, 2 February 2014 12:30 (ten years ago) link
8 pro, 2 con?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 2 February 2014 15:08 (ten years ago) link
jesus, fucking go!!!
― grape is the flavor of my true love's hair (Jon Lewis), Sunday, 2 February 2014 17:19 (ten years ago) link
OK, you helped make that an easy decision. Merci.
― Call the Cops, Sunday, 2 February 2014 21:07 (ten years ago) link
Seeing the band next week. Been a while.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 29 April 2014 19:24 (nine years ago) link
Wished they'd come back my way. Saw 'em during that '90s reunion phase
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 30 April 2014 14:01 (nine years ago) link
Really good last night, though I could do without "Persia."
It's obviously obvious, but it finally struck me last night:
Tom Verlaine. T. V.TVTelevision.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 9 May 2014 12:09 (nine years ago) link
― Bo Diddley Is A Threadkiller (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 9 May 2014 13:20 (nine years ago) link
I just got that. Fuck.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 9 May 2014 13:34 (nine years ago) link
TVT.V.Tom Miller
― Mark G, Friday, 9 May 2014 13:50 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v7FZwyOdvU
― Bo Diddley Is A Threadkiller (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 9 May 2014 13:51 (nine years ago) link
Persia is the greatest thing ever on some nights; on other nights it's just okay. I hope they are able to bottle it when a studio recording eventually comes out.
― Khamma chameleon (Jon Lewis), Friday, 9 May 2014 14:28 (nine years ago) link
http://dangerousminds.net/content/uploads/images/undercoverss15televisionmarqueemoon.jpg
Japanese fashion line features iconic images of Tom Verlaine and Television
― Amory Blaine, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:27 (nine years ago) link
Thought that was a Halloween costume. I would totally give all the candy to a kid who trick-or-treated as Marquee Moon.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:29 (nine years ago) link
Ha otm
― Amory Blaine, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:32 (nine years ago) link
I just noticed that Television will be performing in Philly between Christmas and New Year's. Wondering if I, a fan of Marquee Moon and lover of that original CBGB period who never saw them before, should see them or if they're a shell of their former self. Any opinions?
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 30 October 2014 16:49 (nine years ago) link
NYC Native: The band is not the same without Richard Lloyd. I am assuming he won't be there. I saw them in Central Park a few years back and it was lackluster at best. If Lloyd is somehow on board I'd say by all means attend.
― kwhitehead, Thursday, 30 October 2014 17:43 (nine years ago) link
Disagree. Lloyd is inimitable and irreplaceable but they remain very much worth seeing. Ripp has his own thing to bring. The rough trade shows were excellent. I don't blame kwhitehead for forming that opinion based on that Central Park show though -- it was right after Lloyd left and it sucked.
― a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 30 October 2014 19:54 (nine years ago) link
yeah, i mean you shouldn't expect the heights of 1978 or anything, but if you like hearing verlaine play guitar, how could it be bad? not to mention that rhythm section. the recent instrumental set in NYC last weekend sounded interesting.
― tylerw, Thursday, 30 October 2014 20:11 (nine years ago) link
this is cool -- numero is putting out an Ork Records box set -- television, hell, chilton, feelies, many more!http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfa1/t51.2885-15/10946552_327555314118909_2025837582_n.jpg
― tylerw, Thursday, 22 January 2015 20:50 (nine years ago) link
!
― Zings of Oblivion (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 22 January 2015 22:10 (nine years ago) link
it is a GOOD IDEA. feelies stuff is particularly exciting because those recordings have never been released (or bootlegged afaik)
― tylerw, Thursday, 22 January 2015 22:15 (nine years ago) link
Richard's jug-like runs on "Fire Engine" <3
― Duke, Sunday, 10 April 2016 14:55 (eight years ago) link
Has anyone ever seen Tom Verlaine or Richard Lloyd reference any interest in Wishbone Ash? You listen to the guitar playing on songs like 'The Pilgrim' especially on their live record, you definitely find some sonic similarity with Television. I know Thin Lizzy and Maiden were both inspired by the dual guitar playing, but in some ways you can hear it quite a bit in Television.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
― How Do I Shot Hole In Soul? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:52 (seven years ago) link
Hmm. I don't think I have seen Verlaine or Lloyd talk about Wishbone Ash at all, but I can see why you'd come to that conclusion. I might dig out Adventure for a listen soon, it's been a while.
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:56 (seven years ago) link
Just saw them live the other night. I don't know Wishbone Ash, so can't say. I heard bits of surf, Duane Eddy, Coltrane free jazz.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 8 September 2016 12:20 (seven years ago) link
I saw Television most recently maybe a year or two ago (post-Lloyd era), and I took a guitar nerd friend of mine who was a) somehow not terribly familiar with Television and b) weirdly unimpressed. I think he dismissed it as "faux-naive" or something like that.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 8 September 2016 16:54 (seven years ago) link
verlaine would say he's never heard of wishbone ash, lloyd would say he taught the wishbone ash guys how to play guitar. both would not be exactly true.
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 September 2016 16:58 (seven years ago) link
that's a weird reaction to television - makes 'em sound like fuckin pomplamoose xp
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 8 September 2016 16:58 (seven years ago) link
by the way! if you haven't checked it out, i just re-upped my comp of richard hell-era Television here: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/149945081937/television-a-season-in-hell-sunday-re-up-ive
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 September 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
Whoa thanks. Downloading.
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 September 2016 17:03 (seven years ago) link
sweet!
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 8 September 2016 17:05 (seven years ago) link
I'm going to start calling everything I don't like "faux-naive" now.
― punksishippies, Thursday, 8 September 2016 17:56 (seven years ago) link
As a guitarist, Verlaine is kind've a weird mixture of virtuoso and non-virtuoso, tho - like, I can't ever imagine him every playing in a totally improvised jazz-chops type context (and he's never shown any inclination or desire to do so), yet he's incredibly adept and 'in the moment' when he takes a solo w/ Television. So, if you're a guitar nerd who worships someone like Allan Holdsworth, yeah, he prob is going to seem limited and technically unsophisticated maybe; whereas first gen Brit punkers I know thought Television were 'boring musos' when they first toured the UK.
― Foster Twelvetrees (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 8 September 2016 19:12 (seven years ago) link
So, if you're a guitar nerd who worships someone like Allan Holdsworth, yeah, he prob is going to seem limited and technically unsophisticated maybe
Sure, but there's nothing "faux" about this. As far as I know, it's not like Verlaine could play like Holdsworth and is dumbing himself down, let alone self-consciously. The quote was vaguely remembered and second-hand though so.
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 September 2016 19:15 (seven years ago) link
Second party anyway
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Thursday, 8 September 2016 19:22 (seven years ago) link
Tbh Lloyd outpaces Verlaine in a way that would be more appealing to conventional guitar mag types..Verlaine is Verlaine (which is great)
― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 8 September 2016 20:55 (seven years ago) link
yeah lloyd is the chops side of the equation (though Verlaine in the 80s occasionally sounds pretty chopsy).
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:02 (seven years ago) link
the left-brain/right brain - lloyd/verlaine split is my favourite thing about television - they play together so beautifully despite their totally different approaches to guitar (i remember lloyd saying something to the effect that he could always play the same thing perfectly over and over again while verlaine could never play the same thing twice).
i really enjoy some of their solo work but there's something alchemical about the way they play together. and volatile too - the only time i've ever seen them live verlaine was visibly angry at some minor infraction committed by lloyd and it really soured the whole gig
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:22 (seven years ago) link
the only time i've ever seen them live verlaine was visibly angry at some minor infraction committed by lloyd and it really soured the whole gig
Yes, much the same thing happened the first time I saw Television live (at the Tortoise-curated ATP) - but I think it gave the performance an energy (negative or otherwise) that was pretty compelling to witness. A number of years later I saw Verlaine and Rip play a duo show together - Tom was in a far happier mood, and some of his playing was exquisite, but Rip was much more of an support, much less of a foil - or a spur - than Lloyd.
― Foster Twelvetrees (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 8 September 2016 21:27 (seven years ago) link
My guitar nerd friend is more the collect 78s sort. Xpost
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 8 September 2016 22:39 (seven years ago) link
slightly off topic but how amazing is it that matthew sweet got both lloyd and robert quine to play on girlfriend, even if not together?
― beer say hi to me (stevie), Sunday, 11 September 2016 08:18 (seven years ago) link
it's like leftfield guitar hero fantasy football
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 11 September 2016 10:30 (seven years ago) link
Is Television the most uncerachieving band ever? They would have to be in the running.
― kornrulez6969, Sunday, 11 September 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
― Who Shot Gun For Dinosaur Jr.? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 11 September 2016 15:48 (seven years ago) link
ha! christ. what a dude. what a rolodex.
― beer say hi to me (stevie), Monday, 12 September 2016 12:08 (seven years ago) link
they don't have a huge, widely-popular back catalogue and tom verlaine probably doesn't have a yacht he can berth on the amalfi coast next to bono's but they're still drawing crowds around the world 43 years after they formed and they've been influential critical darlings since the start so i'd have to say... no
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 September 2016 13:44 (seven years ago) link
the most underachieving band ever is, by definition, all-but-unidentifiable
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 September 2016 13:45 (seven years ago) link
i guess i'd be more interested in finding out how the band feel about touring on just three recorded albums' worth of material, with the most widely-appreciated stuff from an album that is 39 years old. does it get boring? do they wish they'd recorded more? would they do it if they didn't need the money? do they need the money?
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 September 2016 13:52 (seven years ago) link
don't know the answer to those questions, but here's what fred smith does when he's not bass-ing for Television: http://cereghinosmith.com/
― tylerw, Monday, 12 September 2016 14:07 (seven years ago) link
awesome - i love it when rock stars age and start getting into esoteric shit, like roger daltrey's fish farm or neil young's model train obsession. and lincvolt. and pono.
― a very in-your-face, hard-edged machine bottom (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 September 2016 14:13 (seven years ago) link
Saw an interview where Verlaine said that if Jimmy Rip was living near him, and not in Argentina now, that Jimmy would likely have encouraged him to record. Verlaine introduced one song as being one of his earliest tunes that never made it to a recording, and then added, maybe we will record it the next time we go into a studio.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 12 September 2016 14:54 (seven years ago) link
Television has had new material in setlists since the early 00s (as I've probably noted before in this very thread), but it seems like Verlaine is deeply disinterested in actually putting any of it out. Crazy that his last solo record is a decade old now. That old tune he mentioned is "I'm Gonna Find You" the original of which you can find on that Season In Hell comp. It's good!
― tylerw, Monday, 12 September 2016 14:57 (seven years ago) link
Their new record, per Ripp, is pretty much tracked but does not have finished vocals. This was the state of things like... 2 years ago? I'm not holding my breath but I'm not hopeless either.
― I wish you could see my home. It's... it's so... exciting (Jon not Jon), Monday, 12 September 2016 15:00 (seven years ago) link
x-post --Can't remember where I read that, but I also saw this Jimmy Rip interview:
And are you working on anything new?The first year I was in the band we recorded like seventeen songs that are still sitting on a hard drive. I think Tom pulls them out every once in a while and works on them a little bit. They sound really good, they sound just like Television. We're just waiting for Tom to finish them. There's a really good record there, we play a couple of new songs every show.
https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/jimmy-rip-new-york-punk-legends-television
― curmudgeon, Monday, 12 September 2016 15:02 (seven years ago) link
They've been doing that long "Persia" song for awhile now
― curmudgeon, Monday, 12 September 2016 15:03 (seven years ago) link
ha, yeah that song is 20 years old now! i'd welcome a new Television album ... I like all their records.
― tylerw, Monday, 12 September 2016 15:04 (seven years ago) link
new album, reportedly? called "sleep all day"? on RedMusic/SuperEgo?
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 1 April 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
unless the post to the television forum was an april fools joke? in which case, i took the bait.
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 1 April 2017 19:05 (seven years ago) link
I'm assuming it's a 4/1 thing until proven otherwise
― chip n dale recuse rangers (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 1 April 2017 20:19 (seven years ago) link
Check it tomorrow.
― Mark G, Saturday, 1 April 2017 20:20 (seven years ago) link
haha, yeah, probably a april fools joke ... however, i think this is real: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8RZZrgW0AA6QOb.jpg:largehttp://www.everythingiscombustible.com/
― tylerw, Saturday, 1 April 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
Funny that , just listening to a Tom Verlaine '84 show when I saw this thread.Also just been reminded that there was a book about the band that came out about 10 years ago. & I'd stuck it on my Amazon wish list then forgotten about it until a couple of days back.Sonic Transmission by Tim Mitchell. Anybody read it? Is it any good?
― Stevolende, Saturday, 1 April 2017 20:40 (seven years ago) link
I belatedly thought of checking for sonic transmissions on the kindle store and it's on there (last time I looked for it I was on a Nook). I downloaded the free sample chapter. Will report back. Apprently there's a missing chapter from the kindle edition though?
― iris marduk (Jon not Jon), Monday, 3 April 2017 14:22 (seven years ago) link
i haven't read it -- i picked it up in a bookstore a long time ago and was kind of annoyed by the pages I read (can't remember why though). maybe i was just in a bad mood. Bryan Waterman's 33 1/3 on Marquee Moon is probably the best thing I've read on the band.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 April 2017 14:25 (seven years ago) link
yeah that and the television section in From the Velvets to the Voidoids
― iris marduk (Jon not Jon), Monday, 3 April 2017 14:36 (seven years ago) link
new album, reportedly? called "sleep all day"? on RedMusic/SuperEgo?― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 1 April 2017 19:04 (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 1 April 2017 19:04 (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Don't know about an April1, more likely a speculative from (quite a few) years ago.
― Mark G, Monday, 3 April 2017 15:48 (seven years ago) link
that should be a good read. he's supposed to be one really weird dude
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 3 April 2017 15:56 (seven years ago) link
lloyd? yeah the memoir should be bonkers.
― tylerw, Monday, 3 April 2017 15:58 (seven years ago) link
i paid for lloyd's 'alchemical guitarist' tutorial videos a while back and they're totally incomprehensible but clearly he's spent a lot of time and energy on this occult system of music. wish i could get on his wavelength.
― stanley weebeard (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 3 April 2017 16:01 (seven years ago) link
I "follow" Lloyd on Facebook and he's a, uh, unique character
― curmudgeon, Monday, 3 April 2017 16:07 (seven years ago) link
my friend took lessons with him for a couple of years here and he definitely garnered a lot from it
i see he's playing at bowery electric pretty soon
― iris marduk (Jon not Jon), Monday, 3 April 2017 16:12 (seven years ago) link
meanwhilehttp://www.villagevoice.com/arts/richard-hell-confessions-of-a-book-collector-9824490
― tylerw, Monday, 3 April 2017 18:28 (seven years ago) link
It only took me six years to get around picking up the 33-1/3 book. I kind of got burned out on that series as too many were dull slogs for me, including Lethem's Fear of Music. This one is great though. I like how part of it is investigative research to show the conflicting differences in the various accounts, interviews, oral histories and myth making.
― Fastnbulbous, Saturday, 8 April 2017 12:52 (seven years ago) link
So looks like Richard Lloyd has a new book out
― Some Dusty in Here (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 01:04 (six years ago) link
I read Lloyd's book. Lots of funny stories about his escapades--the best one involves his driving a car up on a sidewalk, getting the front wheel caught somehow on a wire and having the car hang perpendicular. His account of making Marquee Moon is really good, and in general it's fine. He discounts the third Television album, but I think it sounds great these days and the live footage I've seen of them playing that material is just great, and saw them in NYC on that tour in '92. Saw him play Nashville--he lives in Chattanooga now--last summer and also thought he was superb, tho he can't exactly sing. I even like Rosedale, his last solo album, kinda has a basic rock 'n' roll edge that reminds me of late Hendrix and, on some cuts, ZZ Top if they'd been junkies in the Bowery in 1977. Quite credible album.
― eddhurt, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 01:31 (six years ago) link
Thanks. Wonder how it will stack up next to Grant & I
― Some Dusty in Here (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 03:18 (six years ago) link
I have tickets to see him in New Haven in a few months. I have no idea what to expect.
― kwhitehead, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 03:34 (six years ago) link
I like the third TV album a great deal.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 03:35 (six years ago) link
Why Rosedale? It’s not named after place in Queens is it?I always thought his tune “Misty Eyes” was based on “Love Is Strange” by Mickey and Sylvia.
― Some Dusty in Here (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 03:44 (six years ago) link
On Lloyd's Facebook page, someone posted : Terry Ork was such a Genius & very much ahead of his time ! Richard , can you shed some light on what it was like to work with him ???
His response: Just read my book, with an Amazon link.
He also posts Youtube videos of musicians he likes such as blues guitarist Magic Sam.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 03:54 (six years ago) link
Why Rosedale? It’s not named after place in Queens is it?
I always thought his tune “Misty Eyes” was based on “Love Is Strange” by Mickey and Sylvia.
― Some Dusty in Here (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, February 5, 2018 9:44 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think it's a reference to "crossroads" as done by the cream
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 05:40 (six years ago) link
Guys, Rosedale is a town in Mississippi, in the delta, on the river. Down Highway 1. It's in Robert Johnson's song. Lloyd's album is quite listenable--the songs are good and the playing really is "Dolly Dagger"-era Hendrix gone gaga. He did all of side 1 of Marquee Moon. Lloyd's one of the most free-jazz of electric guitarists but he keeps it such control. He even did "Number Nine" and "Thought You Wanted to Know." I'd seen him w/ Television and with Rocket from the Tombs, so it was just great to stand close and watch his hands. The only mistake in his book I found is "Fred Marr" for "Fred Maher," so I assume it was dictated--but who was reading the proofs? I'm with Alfred Soto, though, the third TV album is underrated. I'm also a fan of Verlaine's schneideries and find him droll and wonderful--Dreamtime is a marvelous album, one of the most New York records ever made.
― eddhurt, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 13:50 (six years ago) link
that is, he did Marquee when I saw him in 2017.
― eddhurt, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 13:51 (six years ago) link
I rate the third TV album very very highly myself. My favorite solo Tom is Flashlight. The drum sound may be dated but in terms of guitar thinking and lyric writing it's the best thing he did after MM.
Songs and Other Things is also great musically and lyrically but something bothers me about the mix. Live, those songs killed.
― Winter. Dickens. Yes. (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:30 (six years ago) link
This might have been the first thing I read about Television: "Somebody Somewhere Must Stand Naked," by Patti Smith, in the October 1974 issue of Rock Scene, Lisa & Richard Robinson's pulp mag (invaluable resource for a po' little boy down in the boondocks, where Creem never seemed to be on the same newsstand twice, and you had to trek to Collegetown to get the Voice) http://www.thewonder.co.uk/rckscene.htm After it was published, a bunch of UK crits and musos flew to NYC---hopefully it turned out better than when Clive Barnes sent Paul Simon to scope, whereupon, according to Creem, "in an all-time classic fuckup, they picked that night to play the whole show dead drunk." Aw how bad/unusual could that have been? Anyway, Eno did produce them demos of course, and maybe the Smith vision->night flight helped that to happen.
― dow, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:46 (six years ago) link
Another piece preserved by The Wonder: Trouser Press ed. Ira Robbins writing for a 2001 issue of Mojo, going way back in there for quite a while (in which Lloyd mentions the Penthouse mention that led to a bunch of orders for the Ork single, when mailorder rock was quite a novelty; I was certainly too much of a wuss to try it---think this skin mag piece was the Tosches show review I read, with a mention of Sonny Sharrock, another first for me):http://www.thewonder.co.uk/mojo.htm
― dow, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:04 (six years ago) link
(Skin mags were another handy boondocks music resource; some of xgau's contributions are on his site.)
― dow, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 20:06 (six years ago) link
https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2018/02/08/richard-lloyd-the-aquarium-drunkard-interview/
― Psmith, Pharmacist (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 11 February 2018 16:58 (six years ago) link
Guy I know is playing bass with Richard Lloyd but unfortunately I am going to have to miss the show.
― Rudy’s Mood For Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 April 2018 16:44 (six years ago) link
when is it?
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 5 April 2018 18:23 (six years ago) link
Tomorrow at Bowery Ballroom. Tonight in New Haven.
― Rudy’s Mood For Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 April 2018 18:28 (six years ago) link
bowery electric, i think you mean. he's also playing for free at the hoboken arts festival in may. (as are dream syndicate.)
his latest record rosedale is pretty good. you need to suspend disbelief, a little bit -- he has embraced his terrible vocals to a point where they almost become a feature. the songs are tightly wound and well constructed with some almost stonesy layering of guitars in spots. billy ficca plays on most of the tracks, chris frantz on a couple. there's one where ficca channels his inner mitch mitchell.
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 6 April 2018 11:46 (six years ago) link
ooh did not know about ficca being on there!! Is he in the live band that's playing tonight?
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Friday, 6 April 2018 14:38 (six years ago) link
No, this guy: https://www.codenycmag.com/kevin-tooley
― Rudy’s Mood For Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 6 April 2018 14:47 (six years ago) link
ficca and fred smith must be very chill dudes to have put up with the two television guitarists over the decades
― tylerw, Friday, 6 April 2018 14:48 (six years ago) link
Indeed.
― Rudy’s Mood For Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 6 April 2018 14:50 (six years ago) link
And yes the correct venue is The Bowery Electric.
fred smith on stage certainly appears to be the chillest of all chill dudes, the ne plus ultra of chill
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Friday, 6 April 2018 15:03 (six years ago) link
I even like Rosedale, his last solo album, kinda has a basic rock 'n' roll edge that reminds me of late Hendrix and, on some cuts, ZZ Top if they'd been junkies in the Bowery in 1977. Quite credible album.
― eddhurt, Monday, February 5, 2018 7:31 PM (two years ago) bookmarkflaglink
does anybody know how i can hear this ? i really really really want to hear this.
― budo jeru, Friday, 5 June 2020 20:00 (three years ago) link
i got my copy by mail from him.
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 6 June 2020 00:23 (three years ago) link
ah okay. just emailed him via his website. hopefully will get a response.
― budo jeru, Saturday, 6 June 2020 12:27 (three years ago) link
well, richard doesn't have any copies and he's unwilling to allow me to pay for files or a burned CD.
the search continues !
― budo jeru, Saturday, 6 June 2020 16:16 (three years ago) link
Wait, you emailed Richard? I thought you emailed eddhurt.
― How I Wrote Neuroplastic Man (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 6 June 2020 16:42 (three years ago) link
yeah. i don't have edd's email. do you think he would send me files ?
― budo jeru, Saturday, 6 June 2020 16:43 (three years ago) link
try him via ilx, but be sure to incl. your email addy; ilx doesn't allow direct replies via ilx screen names (in my experience, anyway)
― dow, Saturday, 6 June 2020 19:30 (three years ago) link
thanks will do
― budo jeru, Saturday, 6 June 2020 22:16 (three years ago) link
Yeah, and maybe check if there's anything he might wanna trade.
― dow, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:13 (three years ago) link
I love the part in "Venus" where Richard Hell is telling Verlaine "let's dress up like cops - think of what we could do" and Verlaine chickens out, seems perfect for those two
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 5 April 2021 15:10 (three years ago) link
Agreed, it's such a joyful line.
― anecdotal certainly but not nothing (stevie), Monday, 5 April 2021 16:17 (three years ago) link
The 1992 reunion album, my first Television purchase, still sounds fantastic. I love Verlaine's affected, archaic lyrics ("Sisters rejoice in a B-minor chord / With wildly impassioned delight") and the way the guitar interplay complements or mocks'em.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 02:44 (two years ago) link
I like Tom Verlaine's Dreamtime probably as much as Marquee Moon, and more than Adventure.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 03:00 (two years ago) link
I was looking for my LPs of Adventure and Dreamtime recently and couldn't find them, sadly. Perhaps I foolishly sold them at one point. Anyway, the s/t was my first TV purchase too and all three albums + Dreamtime are incredibly solid.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 03:03 (two years ago) link
I listen to the s/t Television more than the other two. Verlaine's aging fun nice-guy with jitters all around. Album sounds like a sunny winter day, blindingly bright windows and snow.
― eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 03:18 (two years ago) link
I've been meaning to revisit this. I couldn't get into it the first time I tried it, but I'll probably just buy a cheap copy (there's tons for a few bucks) and play it on a stereo and give it a real chance. I think there's a good chance I'll come around to it, because I've grown to love three or four of Verlaine's solo albums as well as some choice cuts beyond that.
Anyone see Television in recent years? I've been reluctant to go because I'm so used to hearing the classic bootlegs from the '70s that I have a feeling it'll be hard to shake those expectations.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 04:03 (two years ago) link
I saw them in 2014, it was notable that I'd never seen a live act that ran the gamut from absolutely gripping to completely uninvolving (during a long, long unreleased instrumental). I also remember Verlaine making fun of a woman in the front who was apparently complaining.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 04:09 (two years ago) link
Flash light is my favorite Tom solo album and my third favorite thing he did after MM and the 1992 s/t
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 04:39 (two years ago) link
Yeah.. Same.
I did feel a bit disappointed by s/t when it came out, but I did get the cd and tracked down "The Miller's tale" and like it much better now.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 08:18 (two years ago) link
(got the cd etc a few years ago etc)
I'm guessing that somewhere on this thread, someone has posted Television's appearance on Later, two numbers from about the time of the release of the third album. If not, definitely worth hunting down on Youtube - really great performances, and at that point things seemed relatively genial between TV and RL.
― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 09:28 (two years ago) link
Ranking
Marquee MoonTelevisionAdventureCoverFlash LightTom VerlaineWords from the FrontDreamtime
I've never connected w/Dreamtime, despite its acclaim. Gonna listen to it again on my walk this morning.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 09:49 (two years ago) link
Incredible live too so would definitely rank The Old Waldorf and Blow Up as pretty necessary.& I think pretty much any of the live sets from 1978.Probably from the previous couple of years too
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 09:57 (two years ago) link
nu-tv is frustrating in concert. verlaine's guitar tone still glistens, and the other two long-timers are great. the new guy is a pro, almost to a fault. he mimics lloyd's lines and guitar sound extremely well, shaving off the rough edges. his leads are professional and dull. there's a sense of him punching the clock. when they introduce new tunes there's always *something* there, but they sound unfinished. the only one that seems to have lingered in the setlist -- "persia"? -- has been getting longer, less finished-sounding, and less tolerable as the years goes on.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 10:19 (two years ago) link
If we’re including live recordings (let’s say officially released only, in order to maintain sanity) then:MMs/t 1992WaldorfFlash LightMiller’s Tale live disc Live At The Academy Adventure Miller’s Tale compilation disc Tom Verlaine s/tSongs And Other ThingsDreamtime Warm And CoolThe Blow UpCoverAroundWords From The Front The WonderAs a side note, I love all of these albums except WftF and The Wonder. And the line for “I love every single track on these albums” falls between Tom s/t and Songs And Other Things. (If he released a live recording from the SaOT tour and it was on par with the show I saw, that’d take the #6 spot).
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 13:25 (two years ago) link
Glad to see the s/t so high.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 13:41 (two years ago) link
s/t is a nice piece of work, even though lloyd calls it "television lite" in his memoir. they fleshed out those songs nicely in concert too. lloyd really got a chance to shine.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 13:48 (two years ago) link
Can't remember even listening to that one, rectifying that now.
― Two Severins Clash (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 13:49 (two years ago) link
"August" from The Wonder may be my favourite Verlaine song ever, I don't suppose anyone else likes it as much.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:08 (two years ago) link
After Marquee Moon and Adventure, I picked up "The Miller's Tale", which blew me away but I was satisfied. Then there was a reissue of "Tom Verlaine" and "Dreamtime", so I picked those up and love them to pieces. Then sometime later I thought I should get "Words From The Front", underrated in this current discussion I think it's just a notch below the first two. Then "Cover" was reissued a couple of years ago and I grabbed that, at which point I realized I didn't have the self-titled Television album so I got that and also discovered there was a promo-only EP released at the same time with some unique tracks. So now it feels inevitable that I'll wind up with Tom's entire output! His work has just slowly creeped up in my esteem, year after year.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 16:35 (two years ago) link
Cover might be my favorite solo album: goofy, lyrical. Those crap drum machines help.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 16:36 (two years ago) link
Hard to find, is that French promo disc
― Mark G, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 17:14 (two years ago) link
nothing to add here, except that television fucking smashes. perfect rock music.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 17:22 (two years ago) link
I looked this up, and found this excerpt and this response in an interview pre-dating his memoir:
On that third record, any time it came to record my parts, Tom would say, “I hear the amp buzzing. Could you please look into that?” Often, he would turn it down, until it was barely audible. So that nothing rustled, nothing moved. For me, that third record was Television-lite. It has a beautiful, nice sound. But it’s not rock’n’roll...What happened next, though, was we began playing live again. That’s where the real power came out. Songs that sounded tiny on that record really blossomed to life. (my emphasis)
He thinks he has super-human hearing. He hears stuff that's not there or that doesn't matter in rock and roll. He has us playing on one. The Capitol record, the third eponymous album that came out in 1992, has great songs on it: "1880" and "Call Mr. Lee," which is a tour de force for me. I don't think they can play that one live, because replicating my parts is beyond Jimmy Rip's talent. But it's like Television lite. And I'm a rocker.
With that in mind, are there any great bootlegs of those early reunion shows where the self-titled album's songs did indeed "blossomed to life"?
Also, I love Cover, but it's pretty shitty how that's never gotten a good digital release - all the CD's are messed up in some way, with the most recent one finally showing the entire album with no missing tracks or truncated cuts only to be undermined by shitty sound quality.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 18:53 (two years ago) link
holy shit this version of "1880 or So":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhDI0HN9HH0
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:00 (two years ago) link
Ah, I've seen that one before. Like a predecessor to 00s Sonic Youth.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:02 (two years ago) link
the Live at the Waldorf versions of the Adventure stuff is so much better than the album
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:24 (two years ago) link
Absolutely, those songs generally sounded much better on the accompanying tour, although hearing those live recordings later on did make me appreciate Adventure a lot more.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 19:25 (two years ago) link
Like a predecessor to 00s Sonic Youth.― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Tuesday, August 3, 2021 12:02 PM
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Tuesday, August 3, 2021 12:02 PM
uhh, yeah. or maybe exactly where all of their ideas came from. jfc.
that was completely awesome and i'm pretty surprised to see there's been no official release of any live material from that era. seems like a no-brainer, but what do i know i'm a stupid asshole.
anything adventure or adventure-related is also very awesome.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 20:24 (two years ago) link
That Lloyd interview in Seattle can be depressing. Another excerpt:
Do you view Marquee Moon as an albatross or the gift that keeps on giving?Both. For Tom, it’s more of an albatross than it is for me. When I left the band in 2007, Television hadn’t put out a record since 1992 and had written eight songs in that whole time. Tom would start a song and he had no lyrics and he didn’t want to sing and he didn’t want to tour and he didn’t want to do this or that. I had a studio where we could have made a reasonably good-sounding record for free. But he didn’t want to use it, and he kept making excuses, even though he would come over and we would spend hours testing microphones. We both had quite a collection of microphones.
So I have an eight-song demo, but with no lyrics. But they sound great.
What’s going to happen to those eight songs?Nothing.
They’re just going to remain unreleased?[Voice shifting into high-pitched tone of resignation] Yeeeaaaah, that’s probably the way it’s going to be. Because they’re not my sole property. I can’t just release them as a bootleg.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 20:31 (two years ago) link
Xposts Live At The Academy is an official (if poorly distributed) live release documenting the tour following the s/t and it is great
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 20:44 (two years ago) link
About words from the frontThe title song is one my favorite things he ever did and one of my all time favorite guitar solos by anyone. But the rest of the record gives me problems. And the title song is on The Miller’s Tale so I just listen to it there.
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 20:46 (two years ago) link
it's cluttered
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 20:46 (two years ago) link
One issue I have with Adventure and the s/t is that Lloyd doesn’t stand out so much on the albums - not just in terms of the solos but all those melodic parts on MM that I don’t think people realise it’s him and not Verlaine
Whether or not that was a conscious thing from Verlaine I don’t know
― Master of Treacle, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 01:50 (two years ago) link
I think there's plenty of Lloyd on "Adventure"? There's an awful lot of Verlaine too, of course - including on keyboards.
― Soundtracked by an ecojazz mixtape (Tom D.), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 07:15 (two years ago) link
How do Verlaine, etc, make a living day-to-day? I can't imagine the residuals on even MM amount to much.
― shartenfreude (stevie), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 11:52 (two years ago) link
Lloyd said here that Verlaine is wealthy but he himself needs to supplement his income by teaching guitar: https://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/09/09/22834379/ex-television-guitarist-richard-lloyd-on-tom-verlaine-hendrix-music-biz-corruption-and-much-more
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 12:37 (two years ago) link
that's a fantastic interview
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 12:49 (two years ago) link
lloyd's book is worth reading. he is a weirdo but it is easy to separate the real stuff from the bs. i had always assumed andy johns was the hero of the sound on marquee moon, but the book makes clear it was verlaine & lloyd. verlaine heatedly talked the producer out of a big drum sound and lloyd added all that double-tracking. lloyd's description of seeing the allmans at the fillmore east made me feel like i was there.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:01 (two years ago) link
thanks sund4r!
― shartenfreude (stevie), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:04 (two years ago) link
I find it hard to believe Verlaine is "wealthy." Perhaps Lloyd has a different idea of wealthy.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:05 (two years ago) link
keep in mind lloyd was discussing an era when tv was an active band.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:10 (two years ago) link
I'm sure Verlaine is a millionaire, which is an easy definition of wealthy
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:13 (two years ago) link
Serious question: what kind of publishing dough would he have earned? Has he licensed any TV tunes?
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:15 (two years ago) link
Lloyd definitely seemed to have grudges there; I take his comments on Verlaine with a grain of salt but it seemed useful wrt Lloyd's own situation. It might be true that Verlaine doesn't have a day job, though. Aiui, he's done a few film scores and played on a number of records by other people?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:15 (two years ago) link
Bowie covered "Kingdom Come" on Scary Monsters which probably helped, he also produced that Jeff Buckley record among other guest sports & covers etc. I don't know what makes a musician rich these days but it certainly doesn't seem like he feels the need to tour for money or anything like that.
I've seen Lloyd solo a couple times and it has always been smaller-scale affairs
― chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:22 (two years ago) link
i would imagine he's made most of his $ recently on touring and not publishing. but if he alone has the publishing for Television, it's not a huge sum but it ain't nothing.
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:24 (two years ago) link
Verlaine was a private school kid, i.e. like many rockers, he already had some money.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:34 (two years ago) link
Just a guess...but probably not far from truth. How do you think so many of those indie rock bands afforded to put out boodles of 7"s when they were like 19-21.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:36 (two years ago) link
https://networthpost.org/net-worth/tom-verlaine-net-worth/
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:37 (two years ago) link
Yeah, he went to prep school - but also ran away from it and changed his name; do we know that he was still living off family money in adulthood?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 13:47 (two years ago) link
verlaine heatedly talked the producer out of a big drum sound and lloyd added all that double-tracking
Interesting. When Johns died, DeRogatis claimed the opposite during a memoriam on his WBEZ Sound Opinions show. His claim was that Johns recorded without the big drum sound, and then when the band complained in detail, he immediately "got it" and did for them what he did for John Bonham on Led Zeppelin's records. Personally it sounds like he split the difference on the final result - it's probably a bigger drum sound than what I'm used to on punk records from that era (thinking of when the drums kick off the last verse in "Marquee Moon") but it's not what you'd hear on John Bonham's kit.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:19 (two years ago) link
Old, but in 1993:
"I would do one in a minute," says Verlaine of another Television album, but he doesn't sound concerned; he already makes what he calls "a decent living" from royalties, mostly publishing rights on his own and Television's recordings, although "when Bowie covered a song that helped a lot, actually." (Bowie recorded "Kingdom Come," from Verlaine's first solo album, on his "Scary Monsters," which was recently rereleased.) A few more checks should come in with the reissue of "Dreamtime," "Words From the Front" and "Cover," the three Verlaine albums originally on Warner Bros. in the United States; that deal may also lead to the American debut of "The Wonder," the 1990 album that never got released here because, Verlaine claims, his U.K. label never informed his U.S. one that the disc was finished.
Verlaine lived in Britain in the mid-'80s, and although he and Television are more popular over there -- the band's first post-reunion gigs were in Europe -- the singer/songwriter soon soured on the British music business. "Everything had to sound like what was on the radio that week," he remembers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1993/02/26/tom-verlaines-re-visions/2feaf2ba-8fb7-4b2a-b911-03fb156ecd93/
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:23 (two years ago) link
i gave the book back to my brother so i can't double-check, but from what i recall he said that andy johns spent a week setting up the drum sound before they even arrived at the studio. then when verlaine heard it he spent all night yelling at andy johns to get rid of it.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:47 (two years ago) link
My post revive inspired by a terrific Musician interview from fall '92. The four members were interviewed.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:48 (two years ago) link
Those stories about Johns are here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.uncut.co.uk/features/the-story-of-television-by-richard-lloyd-71368/4/%3famp
Tbh, I always imagined Lloyd was embellishing them a little.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:52 (two years ago) link
Musician interview from fall '92
I am really bummed Musician is not really available online. Was a great source of info back in the day
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 14:56 (two years ago) link
Yeah, I'll take Lloyd's word over DeRogatis on this one. There's just too much detail in there for Lloyd to get it wrong (the drum sound part at least), and there's no reason why he'd lie or make it up.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 15:38 (two years ago) link
― a (waterface),
You can find copies on eBay cheap!
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 15:41 (two years ago) link
Well, the stories are pretty flattering to Lloyd and also position the band in opposition to this out-of-touch decadent rocker but I'm sure they're at most exaggerations of the truth.xp
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 15:45 (two years ago) link
Putting on the CD of Marquee Moon, it really does sound beautifully clean and the double-tracked guitars are standing out. I see what you mean about John's splitting the difference, bird.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:03 (two years ago) link
*Johns
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:04 (two years ago) link
Taking a week to setup drum sounds seems like lunacy anyway. People used to be so crazy.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:16 (two years ago) link
Wait, Lloyd said Johns did it in a night. If anything, he repeatedly describes Johns as a bit lazy rather than obsessively meticulous.
The first day in the studio came in November 1976. We had a 2pm start. Andy was nowhere in sight. Finally, about 4.30pm, he came traipsing in. He said, “I came in yesterday, to see what the place was like, and… I can’t work here!” He started listing all the technical tools these old studios didn’t have. We tried to calm him down. Finally, grudgingly, Andy said, “Well, I did manage to set the drums up last night. Got a good sound. Wanna hear it?”He put on this tape he’d made. And, by God, from the speakers came this humongous, pumped-up John Bonham drum sound. Tom started freaking out. “No! No, no, no, no, no! We don’t want that! You need to take that apart!”Andy was outraged. “Well, why did you hire me? That’s what I’m famous for. Fuck this! I’m getting a flight back!”
He put on this tape he’d made. And, by God, from the speakers came this humongous, pumped-up John Bonham drum sound. Tom started freaking out. “No! No, no, no, no, no! We don’t want that! You need to take that apart!”
Andy was outraged. “Well, why did you hire me? That’s what I’m famous for. Fuck this! I’m getting a flight back!”
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:23 (two years ago) link
i might have exaggerated by citing a week. i was working on memory, having read the book a few weeks ago.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 16:53 (two years ago) link
XpostsMy theory for how Verlaine gets by is he has one of those rent control moved in in 1985 kind of situations… if not, 700,000 is not wealthy for nyc (NB I sure wish my net worth was 700,000)This still doesn’t tell me what the fuck he does all day long though—smoke—tune guitars—watch TCM—go to the strand—???
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:03 (two years ago) link
You could ask the same of so many musicians.
― Soundtracked by an ecojazz mixtape (Tom D.), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:07 (two years ago) link
I read something about him haunting used bookstores.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:11 (two years ago) link
Are those "net worth" sites even remotely credible?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:16 (two years ago) link
Yeah, the poignant last chapter in Richard Hell's memoir involves Hell running into Verlaine for the first time in years - he was outside of the Strand going through their dollar book bins.
A former roommate of mine who's just a paralegal is on there - I don't know why, but regardless, if their "net worth" was anywhere close to what was listed, they sure aren't spending it.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:23 (two years ago) link
I have recently retrieved a shit ton of Musicians from storage: I have every issue from 1989 through 1993, and a bunch throughout the 80s and a few going forward from 94… if anyone wants me to hunt for something in a piece during that period or see if I have an issue that their interested in, shoot!
I was an intern for the mag in the early 90s, and it is super interesting to look at these things now… a lot of it is influenced by my interactions with the people who ran the mag, a few of whom I dislike, and when Lord Soto mentions the high boomer, late 80s armani-rock movement, as he has often done lately, Musician pushed the SHIT out of that stuff…more than Rolling Stone… Clapton all the time! Amused to Death, Tin Machine II, Human Touch/Lucky Town, the Soul Cages, the first Robertson album and On Every Street are all hailed as major major works…not to mention Jesus Jones and World Party being held up as the great white guy hopes…
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:31 (two years ago) link
"i might have exaggerated by citing a week."
Not really out of bounds of old school big label budget records though. You could run probably run a small space program on 70s-80s on studio block out time paid for artists that decided to do drugs or fxk off instead of actually making music. A couple I have read about include the Church making Starfish with Waddy Wachtel and the Chili Peppers making their record with George Clinton.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:32 (two years ago) link
back when wfmu held their fundraising record shows in manhattan, verlaine would always pop in to browse. he did not like strangers acknowledging him, but he seemed to have certain buddies behind certain tables. so...
- buying cheap used records.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 18:59 (two years ago) link
Speaking of The Church, Steve Kilbey's autobiography includes some good Tom Verlaine anecdotes. He toured with them (early '90s, IIRC) as their support act, which was a big deal for them as he was a major musical hero. Verlaine's parents were invited backstage at a show near their home, and his mom implored Kilbey to "make sure Tom eats properly".
― Vast Halo, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:01 (two years ago) link
"Here's a bag of horse."
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:08 (two years ago) link
What was the last example from the boomer/"Armani rock" era that had critical and commercial success, rather than being seen as nostalgia or as a comeback? Ten Summoner's Tales?
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:20 (two years ago) link
The Rhythm of the Saints comes to mind instantly.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:23 (two years ago) link
It looks like it was the last of that breed to get in the Pazz and Jop top 10.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:25 (two years ago) link
Clapton's Pilgrim was certainly a death rattle.
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:27 (two years ago) link
saw him move
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:31 (two years ago) link
I kinda of like Lucky Town...seriously though, it's a fine, low-key batch of songs, but it's no "major" work, that's for sure.
I kinda like this one too, but it's not something I would consider putting on a top ten ballot.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:32 (two years ago) link
The classic rock station here played "My Father's Eyes" from that record, during a short-lived era in 1998 when they would announce, "Now, NEW music from a Classic Rock artist!"
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:34 (two years ago) link
"That record": Pilgrim by Clapton.
Back to Television: maybe the Johns/one week thing came from how long he was in the studio with them? I read somewhere that after the blow-up about the drum sound--and the band making tentative peace by explaining he was hired on his track record working w/guitar bands--Johns started disappearing from sessions (or not showing up at all), and didn't reemerge until mixing began.
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:36 (two years ago) link
it was fairly easy for me to run into every single TV guy during my time in NYC… indeed Verlaine was at the FMU record fairs regularly, but the one time I spoke to him was at a Blumfeld show at Brownies in I guess '95…nobody there knew who he was other than me, and he came up to bum a cig off of me, which I was happy to oblige him…I couldn't think of anything to say to him other than, "oh sure, here you go," which is probly for the best… Lloyd played around NYC all the time in the late 90s and 00s, and in particular a free show at Manitoba's was fantastic… I've mentioned here before about working on a project with Dick Hell, who talked shit about Verlaine with great relish…
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 19:52 (two years ago) link
geez maybe i was at that manitoba's show? was he playing with that woman student of his? i remember going to don hill's afterwards to catch syl sylvain's show. a real ny rock night!
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 4 August 2021 20:03 (two years ago) link
― birdistheword
I would!
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 20:20 (two years ago) link
Yeah my friend used to work at one of the other used book stores and TV was a regular. She struck up a conversation with him about the Trautonium which apparently was moderately lively
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 21:55 (two years ago) link
Veronica moser I know you have better things to do with your time than scan old musician articles but damn My golden era reading that magazine was more 1985-1988 though- I think I got into the fall because of a sidebar in Musician of all places!
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 4 August 2021 21:57 (two years ago) link
Re: "high boomer, late 80s armani-rock movement," how did we miss mentioning Steve Winwood? Between him, Clapton and Sting, I'm tempted to label it Michelob rock. (Yes, they all hawked different beers, but Michelob has a douchey ring to it.)
Re: Television's third, good call from Alfred, this is good stuff. I noticed guys like DeRogatis and Bill Wyman of the Chicago Reader mercilessly trashing it, but Ira Robbins (who's consistently written positively of it over the years) had probably the best take on their 1992 reunion overall: "Older, more skilled and less excitable, they matched the memory and honoured their previous work by accepting what they were, and what they were not." It's not the Television of yore, but to demand too much of that overlooks what made the Television of 1992 a commendable group. The live Academy recording Jon recommended is indeed excellent, but I had to download it - apparently it was sold only as a CD-R release on their 2003 tour.
Also check out this vintage Television site - it does feel very dated, but for something of that time, it's an impressive design: http://www.thewonder.co.uk
― birdistheword, Monday, 16 August 2021 15:11 (two years ago) link
That Academy CD-R is fantastic
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 16:19 (two years ago) link
where ya'll hearing it? because i need that in my life.
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Monday, 16 August 2021 16:25 (two years ago) link
i've got the CD-R itself, but let me see if I can find digital files for you
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 16:40 (two years ago) link
O_O
i was just hoping for a youtube link or something, but that would be rad thank you!
― things repeat forever and there never is a remedy (Austin), Monday, 16 August 2021 16:46 (two years ago) link
surprisingly, it's actually streaming on various platforms and available as a download via amazon https://www.amazon.com/Live-At-Academy-NYC-12-4-92/dp/B000TPYU8Y
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 16:57 (two years ago) link
Trying to remember seeing some version of The dB’s in the 80s and them playing “See No Evil” unless the original came over the sound system or maybe it was just a kooky dream?
― No Particular Place to POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:01 (two years ago) link
I noticed guys like DeRogatis and Bill Wyman of the Chicago Reader mercilessly trashing it,
what on earth is there to trash?
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:05 (two years ago) link
xp chris stamey's version of "Venus" with Yo La Tengo is fantastic, a nice reimagining
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj3Ev3dIkpE
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 17:07 (two years ago) link
Last update: 7th May 2021(!)
man i miss sites like that
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:11 (two years ago) link
Chris Stamey's book described how seeing Television in 1974 (?) galvanized his musical plans (and desire to move to New York City).
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 16 August 2021 17:17 (two years ago) link
Wild Flag did a great "See No Evil" for their encores...man, I miss that band, I kind of wish they continued on, especially given how the Sleater-Kinney reunion ultimately turned out.
― birdistheword, Monday, 16 August 2021 17:21 (two years ago) link
Old set lists seem to confirm this cover I remember seeing.
― No Particular Place to POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:22 (two years ago) link
Well, here's their take:
Wyman in late 1992:
"Nostalgia sucks; and for obvious reasons, it’s even worse when punks are involved. With this in mind, beware Television reunion concerts...Television is not as bad as you might think: parts of the first two songs, in fact, display a dark beauty and a propulsive authority. But the record’s only other notable feature is the band’s well-wrought persuasive argument for the mannered music they make. They might as well have spent the past 14 years inventing the internal combustion engine."
DeRogatis reviewing their Metro show in May 2001
"In '92, Television was touring behind a new album for Capitol, its self-titled third. But this mediocre effort paled in comparison to '77's groundbreaking Marquee Moon and '78's powerful but underrated Adventure. At Metro on Thursday, the band seemed determined to convince us that the'92 material wasn't really so bad: Half the set was drawn from that disc, while far superior tunes from the first two albums (not to mention Verlaine's solo efforts) was passed over. Monochromatic exercises like 'Shane, She Wrote This' and 'Call Mr. Lee' were better live than on album, but the songs haven't grown more tuneful or gripping in the last nine years. In sharp contrast, older guitar duels like 'See No Evil,' 'Venus' and 'Prove It' sounded as brilliant and timeless as ever..."
― birdistheword, Monday, 16 August 2021 17:27 (two years ago) link
brilliant AND timeless
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:28 (two years ago) link
― No Particular Place to POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 16 August 2021 17:30 (two years ago) link
xxxxxppost Speaking of Amazon< they no longer have the download of TV's Rhino Handmade (do still have the RH mp3s of Beefheart. Fugs. threefold expansion of Bobby Charles s/t), and the domestic CD of Marquee Moon is not in the main listings, though it is on there (how are the Japanese versions of this and Adventure? Prices aren't bad) But mainly I'm wondering about this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41XMGTJDZ8L.jpgV
The Miller's Tale: A Tom Verlaine Anthology
EMI Import 2007
1 Used from $39.991 New from $57.99
New two CD comp for one of THE founding fathers of modern rock. Disc 1 is 10 live tracks recorded at The Venue, London, June 3, 1982. Disc 2's 18 tracks include his best (both solo & with Television) plus 6 previously unavailable commercially. LIVE: Kingdom Come, Souvenir From A Dream, Clear It Away, Always, Postcard From Waterloo, Pene-tration, Breakin' In My Heart, Marquee Moon, Days On The Mountain & Prove It. HITS: Venus, Glory, The Grip Of Love,Without A Word, Words From The Front, Let Go The Mansion, O Foolish Heart, Lindi-Lu, Five Miles Of You, Anna, At 4 A.M.,
Customer reviews4.4 out of 5 stars13 global ratings
― dow, Monday, 16 August 2021 18:16 (two years ago) link
I've got all the studio stuff in various formats here and there, but Disc 2 is a handy round-up. and Disc 1's liveness is intriguing.
― dow, Monday, 16 August 2021 18:19 (two years ago) link
It's too bad they won't release Disc 1 separately. At least do a download, it's kinda shitty that you have to buy another disc's worth of music that you probably already own.
― birdistheword, Monday, 16 August 2021 18:21 (two years ago) link
the live stuff on miller's tale is terrific — his band in the 80s was killer.
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 18:21 (two years ago) link
Jimmy Ripp went on to work as lead guitarist on Mick Jagger's best solo album.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 August 2021 18:23 (two years ago) link
i don't think he plays on goddess in the doorway, alfred.
I've no doubt plugged it before, but this fan-made comp of Verlaine live from 1981-2001 is worth everyone's time. https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/151241115682/tom-verlaine-pull-down-the-future-live
― tylerw, Monday, 16 August 2021 18:57 (two years ago) link
"Breakin' In My Heart" from Verlaine's eponymous debut has always been a favorite. Love that whole album, but with Ricky Wilson's prominent guest spot, it's basically my favorite supergroup playing on that track. (Television frontman/guitarist, Television bassist/Blondie's original bassist, Patti Smith Group drummer, B-52's guitarist)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdRuMvtAQ5w
― birdistheword, Monday, 16 August 2021 19:22 (two years ago) link
Also check out this vintage Television site
OMG! If you can somehow navigate to the cover version of 'see no evil' by the band 'fine,' i'm one of the guitarists! please hang around for the solo, which was my attempt at a tv mashup, inserting the 'ain't that nothin' solo where the 'see no evil' solo should be. worked out kinda nice! gosh that was a long time ago...
https://tv.obbard.com/tribute/contents.htm
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 16 August 2021 19:54 (two years ago) link
You all sound excellent.
― Captain Beefart (PBKR), Monday, 16 August 2021 20:09 (two years ago) link
thanks! fun fact: that's creed taylor's son on drums.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 16 August 2021 20:10 (two years ago) link
should have asked dad to put some strings on it.
― Captain Beefart (PBKR), Monday, 16 August 2021 20:14 (two years ago) link
haha! i only met him once, very briefly. shook his hand. an honor.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 16 August 2021 20:16 (two years ago) link
It's too bad they won't release Disc 1 separately. At least do a download, it's kinda shitty that you have to buy another disc's worth of music that you probably already own.― birdistheword, Monday, August 16, 2021 6:21 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― birdistheword, Monday, August 16, 2021 6:21 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Well, it's a small fortune now, so you might as well get two discs for yr money.
― Mark G, Monday, 16 August 2021 20:43 (two years ago) link
And disc 2 has three tracks from the lost album
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Monday, 16 August 2021 22:29 (two years ago) link
Spotify has xpost Live At The Old Waldorf---and not Live At The Academy, but that's much more affordable, at least as a download (maybe free, if I keep looking). Also has a good selection of Tom albums ---is Flash Light the most recent?
― dow, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 00:46 (two years ago) link
(xpost because that's the Rhino Handmade Ltd.Ed.CD/download, both now OOP)
― dow, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 00:50 (two years ago) link
Live at the Academy is available on Spotify, but appears under a different Television:
https://open.spotify.com/album/4qnBkw3UpZhel1P5zSXM2e?si=OQ81e3fjSriG1guDfH-qkw&dl_branch=1
― Captain Beefart (PBKR), Tuesday, 17 August 2021 00:53 (two years ago) link
Portland 1978 is also worth seeking - not the best recorded (I'm pretty sure it's an audience recording), but maybe the best show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UxMEp45kf4
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 00:55 (two years ago) link
Xpost - two albums since flash light. The wonder, which I really haven’t warmed to, and then after a long gap Songs And Other Things which is a tad overlong but has a bunch of top shelf material on it (which came across especially well on the ensuing tour)
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 17 August 2021 03:33 (two years ago) link
Hey, just found this, sorry if posted before:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKgyjw478B8
― Roffle Tolhurst (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 August 2021 13:46 (two years ago) link
man what i wouldn't give for an entire pro-shot video of Television in 1978.
― tylerw, Thursday, 19 August 2021 14:30 (two years ago) link
Yeah.
― Roffle Tolhurst (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 19 August 2021 15:26 (two years ago) link
I have a fond memory of seeing the charming indie-pop band Small Factory do a sound check back in 1994 or so, and when the sound guy asked them to play all together they out of nowhere busted out a dead-on cover of iirc "See No Evil."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 19 August 2021 15:42 (two years ago) link
From the Richard Hell thread, a news update from his official site:
JANUARY 2022: There's now up an astounding video from 1974 of the original Television lineup, playing Tom Verlaine's "Hard on Love" on a tiny stage in a New York club (not CBGB), when Richard was not only in the band, but singing and writing many of the songs and heavily influencing the group's style. This period lasted about six months before Verlaine had fully succeeded in changing the direction of the band, dropping Hell's songs from the setlist, insisting that band members stand still on stage, and reverting to ordinary hipster thrift-shop streetwear, rather than the various stylistic concepts Hell had conceived. No denying that Verlaine is stunning in the clip though. What a band. There's speculation that the gig is from late May at the Cafe Wha? in Greenwich Village. (The band's very first gig was in March.) What we do know is that John Lennon saw it in September because he remarks on it during an interview in Melody Maker as he watches it on local TV that month (Sept. 14 issue). This is also the version of the band that initiated CBGB, thrilled Malcolm McLaren and Patti Smith, and made Robert Quine think that perhaps there was a place for him in rock and roll after all. You can see the clip (and read what Lennon said, in the uploader's intro text) at YouTube. Pair it with the veryearly Ork loft rehearsal tapesand you can see what the excitement was about in 1974, and where punk began...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLlhYiN4gmU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcGEcB5M4es
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 21:52 (two years ago) link
pretty amazing stuff! "They sound terrible but they’re OK!"
― tylerw, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 22:57 (two years ago) link
Ironic that Lennon, in his appreciation, was effectively ahead of the game.
He'd had someone make a tape of stuff, the person had put what he'd asked for (old stuff mainly) on one side, and on side 2 had added B52s, Talking Heads, etc - but he'd taken no notice of it. a year or so later he thought about it but had lost the tape so had to ask his fried to make it up again for him..
― Mark G, Wednesday, 19 January 2022 10:40 (two years ago) link
friend, not fried.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p98PjtSfNWo
― Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 19 January 2022 13:14 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8j8SECzULw
― Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 19 January 2022 13:16 (two years ago) link
I was reading that William Orbit interview on the other thread, and he made an obvious but still good observation, that there are entire eras of music and various scenes that were barely even photographed, let alone filmed. Now, of course, everything is photographed and filmed. But when you see stuff like this, or that Eno doc, or things of their ilk, it's almost like seeing the Patterson–Gimlin Bigfoot film.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 19 January 2022 14:02 (two years ago) link
Have been reminded recently of what a shame it is that Pere Ubu don't appear to have had anything filmed before Birdies in Urgh! A Music War. Just would have been something else if teh art scene in Cleveland included film makers who wanted to document the scene and capture the band when onetime possible Television member peter Laughner was onboard or over the next couple of years.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 19 January 2022 20:35 (two years ago) link
Yeah - massive shame if no footage survives of singles/modern/dub era ubu
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Friday, 21 January 2022 00:04 (two years ago) link
I've seen (and enjoyed) Ubu live - but something about the music of that era makes it seem appropriate that their art is audio-only. Seeing film of them would be like dubbing sound on a silent movie... it was meant to documented exclusively sonically.
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 21 January 2022 01:24 (two years ago) link
We will be touring as a trio this November. Myself on guitar and vocals; David Leonard on bass and vocals and Kevin Tooley on drums and vocals. It will be great fun and I very much looks forward to it, We will again be touring the North East, hoping to get to the west coast later— Richard Lloyd (@RichardLloyd206) September 7, 2022
― dow, Thursday, 8 September 2022 01:52 (one year ago) link
I love, love this band to bits. I've never seen them live, one of my biggest regrets.
― birdistheword, Saturday, 28 January 2023 15:51 (one year ago) link
Seeing bad, bad rumours on the internet right now :(
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 28 January 2023 20:54 (one year ago) link
Yeah. Let's see.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 January 2023 20:57 (one year ago) link
is this a trustworthy news site?
https://snbc13.com/tom-verlaine-marquee-moon-popular-singer-guitarist-has-died-death-obituary/
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:11 (one year ago) link
i don't have fb, but maybe someone with access can confirm rosenbloom's account?
obviously tough news.
― "i'm grateful." (Austin), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:17 (one year ago) link
https://louderthanwar.com/tom-verlaine-dies-at-73/
― sleeve, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:19 (one year ago) link
Yeah, I know Lee a bit from back in the day. He's definitely one of those "in the know" music types.
― henry s, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:20 (one year ago) link
I don't know this person but apparently a credible source :(
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn-Kmjaul80/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:20 (one year ago) link
Fuck
ugh, looking like it's true
― tylerw, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:21 (one year ago) link
Marquee Moon was one of those records I'd read about years before I heard it, one of the rare ones that not only lived up to the hype but exceeded it in ways I couldn't have imagined. Changed so much about how I thought about rock bands and how to construct music.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:22 (one year ago) link
I don't know what more you could ever hope to achieve using the standard drums/bass/guitar format
Never even considered the possibility of him dying
― PaulTMA, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:24 (one year ago) link
My intro? The eponymous 1992 album: a minor masterpiece of precision. I heard Verlaine and Lloyd's duels and thought, "Who the hell are these people?" An ideal preparation for Marquee Moon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeIoKtnPBiQ
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:25 (one year ago) link
they canceled a tour last year because of "health problems" but I didn't dare think this would happen ...
― tylerw, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:26 (one year ago) link
I’m just playing Venus on repeat now
― Mule, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:28 (one year ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/02/robert-forster-venus-by-television-is-the-most-perfect-song-of-all-time
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:31 (one year ago) link
marquee moon was one of those instant classics that simply sounded fantastic on first listen (+put a lot of the contemporary stuff i was into at the time in its proper place) and still greets like an old friend when i hear it these days. maybe adventure even more.
― "i'm grateful." (Austin), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:31 (one year ago) link
I love the Adventure stuff on Live At the Old Waldorf, such a great document of the band live
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:36 (one year ago) link
yes, absolutely
― sleeve, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:37 (one year ago) link
the early demo stuff collected on the Poor Circulation boot CD is incredible as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tMSNmKV1sk
― sleeve, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:38 (one year ago) link
I’m not sure what to look for on FB, but Lee Rosenbloom has an RIP.
― The Big O RLY (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:38 (one year ago) link
First television song I ever heard was that amazing clip of them doing 'Foxhole' on the OGWT, that made me want to buy a guitar like nothing else i'd ever seen. Adventure was always precious to me because of that tune
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:39 (one year ago) link
Jonathan Paley as well, in a Verlaine group on FB
― Mule, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:39 (one year ago) link
Xp
50 minutes ago. Cites a “close family friend” as source.(xp)
― The Big O RLY (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:39 (one year ago) link
Man, this sucks. Pretty much everything this guy did after the first Television album was almost an afterthought, certainly overlooked, but what more did he have to prove? It's a blessing and a curse to start your career with an album that helps change the course of music. RIP.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:41 (one year ago) link
So weird the way you clue into death. I saw someone had put up a "Marquee Moon"-related post on FB. Then a second one, but I still didn't make the connection. Then a Television thread at the top of ILM and it was clear.
― clemenza, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:44 (one year ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/28/arts/music/tom-verlaine-influential-guitarist-and-songwriter-dies-at-73.html
― nostormo, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:54 (one year ago) link
RIP
Love his first solo album. Can you imagine being covered by Bowie? Only a few got that privilege.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:58 (one year ago) link
RIP ;_;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyQBLQgVblY
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:59 (one year ago) link
Went looking for the solo version and had no idea Television had done this back in 1975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=032bsV9SeWg
― Piedie Gimbel, Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:04 (one year ago) link
saw him at a WMFU record fair once. didn't expect him to be so tall! John Lurie too - like standing next to a skyscraper
― Paul, Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:06 (one year ago) link
xp yeah there are some incredible early versions of that, another one from CBGB '75 as well
― sleeve, Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:08 (one year ago) link
always found this one incredibly moving, going to listen to it now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoSxmqO710Tom Verlaine - Song
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:11 (one year ago) link
Went by the book stalls outside Strand yesterday thinking I’d see you as usual, have a smoke, talk about rare poetry finds for a couple of hours, downtown NYC racing by our slow meditations on music, writing - gonna miss you Tom. TV Rest In Peace.— Thurston Moore (@nowjazznow) January 28, 2023
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:27 (one year ago) link
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Saturday, 28 January 2023 21:39 (forty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
His vamping and obnoxious eyelash flutters in that performance rule so hard
God damn this is so sad, is there anything on earth that sounds like the way he played that jazzmaster
― hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:29 (one year ago) link
There was a post somewhere I think on this board that got stuck in my head forever about how that closing stretch of The Dream's Dream is basically the prettiest guitar playing ever, and yeah
― hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:35 (one year ago) link
Can’t believe itI mean I totally can but this does not at all feel good rnMM and old Waldorf obv, but hear me now, Flash Light is also a masterpiece, I will never ever back down about this. Solo show w band at Bowery Ballroom in 06 a lifetime high for me Wahhh There’s almost no one left standing of my old favorites now. Crocus B, Robyn H and Richard T long life to you.
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:41 (one year ago) link
Am I tripping or is the 1:35 mark of elevation the inspo for rhcp “Californication”
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:43 (one year ago) link
If that wasn't me it should have been. It has a real uplifting quality - rivalled only by a Popol Vuh song used in Herzog's "Heart of Glass".
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:48 (one year ago) link
In some ways the dreams dream, especially the Waldorf version, is my favorite television recording
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 28 January 2023 22:55 (one year ago) link
everything this guy did after the first Television album was almost an afterthought, certainly overlooked
I'd love to think that his solo albums might get a little of the attention they deserved all along:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noJ2H19Qh8A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rx03SpAh_U
Of course, he was a great guitar player, but his songs and singing could have been visionary even if he had never picked one up. His music was all of a piece, never showing off, all expressing the view from inside his head.
― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:08 (one year ago) link
man, rip. i wonder if that 4th tv album will ever emerge in one form or another.
― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:22 (one year ago) link
rip. marquee moon was one of those things i had to read about long before i got to hear it, and it was as advertised.
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:29 (one year ago) link
Sleater-Kinney on FB:
While there are many guitar players whom we admire, there are very few whose work informed our approach to playing and writing. Tom Verlaine was one of those guitarists. It was not only his serpentine style—jagged yet shimmering, capable of story-like melodies—but also how he played in conversation with his bandmate and fellow guitarist, Richard Lloyd. The intertwining of notes, completing each other’s sentences, toying with consonance and dissonance, beautifully colliding then breaking away; telling us so much without a single word. While Marquee Moon was seminal, Adventure burrowed deeper. I can’t think of a song that informed the entirety of our guitar playing on The Hot Rock than “Days.” Thank you, Tom Verlaine, for guiding us. May you rest in peace. “Days, be more than all we have. “ 🎸📺💔
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:41 (one year ago) link
ooh that's nice, thanks, my fave song from Adventure
― sleeve, Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:42 (one year ago) link
Influenced my guitar style like nobody else did. That's not saying very much, but it's good to see other more well known guitarists saying that too.
― Mark G, Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:45 (one year ago) link
More Richard Lloyd than Verlaine though, that one.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:47 (one year ago) link
That S-K eulogy is super eloquent thank you
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:55 (one year ago) link
Also- thanking thus sang freud for the ticket hookup for one of my handful of TV shows
And Verlaine adapted to the synth pop era. I love this ballad, downloaded by me during the Napster peak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN5qO2Gsyw0
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:57 (one year ago) link
That’s a great one. Do you like the Flash Light album, lord Soto?
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:58 (one year ago) link
I do! "A Town Called Walker"! "The Funniest Thing"!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 January 2023 23:59 (one year ago) link
have been watching richard lloyd's guitar lessons on youtube recently, very analytical in a mad scientist kind of way, and also somewhat perplexing to an oaf like me, but a really fascinating approach and i'd imagine quite a complementary one to verlaine who i can't help but think of as just plucking inspiration out of thin air like he's drawing a breath and breathing it out (this is likely a complete misapprehension on my part, would like to read any interviews with him on that side of things if anyone has any good links?)
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:02 (one year ago) link
that was a very enjoyable evening, j not j -- it was a pleasure seeing a tv show with you.
― Thus Sang Freud, Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:03 (one year ago) link
I sleep lightOn these shores tonightI live light on these shores
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:03 (one year ago) link
I hope we praise how good a lyric writer he was: his guitar was lyrical, his lyrics were pointillist.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:04 (one year ago) link
Apologies for the spam, but the one episode of my podcast I was really thrilled about was getting Matt Sweeney of Zwan/Chavez/rock guy Zelig on and we talked Marquee Moon, he's super interesting to listen to on the album
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3s7qRa1B8ZDuSVgqGOx8db?si=Amtm66THSPumiwIC4lYgTQ&utm_source=copy-link
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:07 (one year ago) link
cool, thanks ums!
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:12 (one year ago) link
stolen from thurston's insta:
https://i.ibb.co/9GwCBkR/Screenshot-2023-01-29-001119.jpg
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:13 (one year ago) link
They’re just like us!
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:16 (one year ago) link
I never saw them there. I guess I must have gone at the wrong time.
― The Big O RLY (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:20 (one year ago) link
for a long time the first thing i'd play when picking up a guitar was the riff from “friction.” such a weird, cranky, chromatic, dissonant thing, but so simple, an open string melody that anyone could’ve stumbled upon but only verlaine had the nerve to put into a song
rip big man
― sault bae (voodoo chili), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:29 (one year ago) link
haha I always play that too! The funniest one though is that one guitar line in 'prove it' which is basically descending down the major scale and back up again. it sounds brilliant but was a real oh duh moment when I figured it out
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:36 (one year ago) link
I took a guitar player friend with me to see Television some years back (Jimmy Rip edition) and afterwards he kind of sniffed at what he called Verlaine's "faux primitive" approach to guitar. I think he missed the point. It's all about the big picture.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:38 (one year ago) link
He asked me if he could bum a cig at the Blumfeld show at Brownies in 1995; I was happy to oblige, and I'm fairly certain I was the only person there who knew who he was; saw him walking around NYC many times, he was at the FMU record fair all the time; you could hardly miss him…
three times seeing TV: 2000 in Chicago; Lloyd broke a string during "mm" and the rest of the band stared daggers at him while he took FOREVER to replace and tune up— I suspect that Smith and Ficca very much deferred to him and not all to Lloyd; 2002—this one was the best, and 2007 at summerstage; lloyd quit for good days beforehand. but the best was him with Fred Smith, Jay dee and Jimmy Ripp at Tramps in 1996.
It's true that he was the "skree skraw" guy that Thurston and Ira K would have worshipped, and Lloyd was the one jeff beck chops addicts could understand…
― veronica moser, Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:44 (one year ago) link
I hope we praise how good a lyric writer he was: his guitar was lyrical, his lyrics were pointillist.I hope we do too. I don’t really think anyone has touched his lyric approach. One of the reasons I go on about flash light so much is because its lyrics are SO good. “Outside there’s a tree so white I can hardly look at it”“Folks here in Walker are falling in love with shame”“When they get spiteful they always do their best”“87 rubies underneath my back seat/gonna go get something I can’t buy”(NB there may be some slight misrememberings there)
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:46 (one year ago) link
vm I wasn’t here yet in 2002 but I saw them at Irving plaza the next year (or 04?) and for me too that was peak live TVThe solo band at Bowery in 06 was the same as the one you saw except for the younger guy he got on drums, Lou something, who unfortunately passes away since
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:49 (one year ago) link
*passed
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:50 (one year ago) link
"Guiding Light" has incredible lyrics and vocal delivery as well IMHO
― sleeve, Sunday, 29 January 2023 00:54 (one year ago) link
Except 7 foot tall.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Sunday, 29 January 2023 01:01 (one year ago) link
Famously Lloyd could reproduce and double his guitar parts flawlessly whereas Verlaine would never play anything the same way twice.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Sunday, 29 January 2023 01:07 (one year ago) link
Chicago; Lloyd broke a string during "mm" and the rest of the band stared daggers at him while he took FOREVER to replace and tune up
I remember this show vividly. It was part of the Noise Pop series, and while I can't recall exactly what else I saw, I want to say I saw a show every night that week (inc. Tweedy and O'Rourke debuting Loose Fur, maybe Wire and Sleater-Kinney also). Anyway, I felt it was Lloyd being totally passive aggressive. The band just vamped and soloed and jammed while he did indeed take forever, and then when he finally got the new string on and tuned the band pretty much wrapped up immediately.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 29 January 2023 01:27 (one year ago) link
first verse of marquee moon—perfect lyrics
i was listening, listening to the raini was hearing, hearing something else
terrifying!
― sault bae (voodoo chili), Sunday, 29 January 2023 02:27 (one year ago) link
This is what started the ball rolling for me--for the line-up of that era, see vids and commentary posted by birdistheword in mid-Jan. 2022:
"Somewhere Somebody Must Stand Naked"Rock Scene October '74By Patti Smith
― dow, Sunday, 29 January 2023 03:33 (one year ago) link
To me it's amazing that Bowie thought him great enough to cover "Kingdom Come," despite That Vocal.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 January 2023 03:47 (one year ago) link
I’m a craptastic guitar player but I can stumble through some of the riffs for “Marquee Moon,” and every time I do I sort of feel like I’ve been touched by the hand of God. He made garage rock sound divinely inspired. RIP.
― Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Sunday, 29 January 2023 04:37 (one year ago) link
Robert Forster:
https://www.facebook.com/robertforsterofficial/posts/pfbid02ax9bjAEYuctdimTVCTWsiAcjEWsTszQeHFKPnL7H7RE16k6uxaSgEzxJfeN5QgS2l
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 29 January 2023 16:44 (one year ago) link
Ah yr back are you, ILX?
― Mark G, Sunday, 29 January 2023 16:55 (one year ago) link
This was a fascinating watch, a full hour of Terry Ork's films of early Television practices, you can literally see Verlaine teaching them Venus for the first time, like watching the band being born. Some funny arguing too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srn98FdXI4E
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 29 January 2023 16:58 (one year ago) link
There's a part where Verlaine and Hell are cracking up working out the "did you feel low? Not at all..huh" part that is cute
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 29 January 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link
a compilation of songs that might have appeared on the next TV album:https://www.earcandyarchive.com/?p=24
― Thus Sang Freud, Sunday, 29 January 2023 18:56 (one year ago) link
I was only a casual Television fan i guess but that being said, my first time hearing Marquee Moon was a really indelible experience & i feel it every time i go back & listen like, it didn’t sound preserved in amber like the way some important™️ musical artifacts did in my 20’s. at thst age I didn’t have a lot of depth to my experience aside from popular radio & my own stumblings & digging so learning a lot of it on my own sometimes felt a bit isolating. like maybe i needed someone to talk me through what i heard but not with Television. or it didn’t feel like that. there was no remove. no moment of “i have to do some reading to appreciate this i guess ?”with MM it was all right there, declaring itself but welcoming you? the incredible guitar sound & the driving band around it that is not at all chaotic but everyone’s playing is focused & intense, the beautiful lyrics, the emotion of his singing (and idk if this is a thing but i like that he and Patti Smith both share the same style of phrasing, like did they consciously talk about it ever or was it just symbiotic maybe, i love it though) but Television that first time was like going to the ocean, seeing a majestic set of waves then being in the ocean & being carried by the same waves and just being so happy that “old” music could be so powerful it’s so artistic but so accessible without being dumb or panderinganyway saying all of that makes me so sad that we now have to talk abt Verlaine in the past tense beautiful king of guitar god poets rip
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 29 January 2023 20:07 (one year ago) link
<3
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Sunday, 29 January 2023 20:13 (one year ago) link
greatest musical moment of my adult life was being driven down the main drag of ocean city, maryland, with the windows open, listening to all 10 minutes of “marquee moon” while coming down from acid and it felt like the lights of the boardwalk and the ferris wheel and all of downtown were powered by the riffs
rip. punk was actually always about being a great instrumentalist from a low angle, he embodied that
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Sunday, 29 January 2023 20:18 (one year ago) link
amen to that!
Nice post from Lee renaldo:https://www.instagram.com/p/CoAnPY2pwT_/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Sunday, 29 January 2023 20:25 (one year ago) link
A nice reminiscence from Marty Willson-Piper:
"I played with him most nights on the US tour in 1988 where he opened for the ex-band acoustic and we played Cortez the Killer as an encore (electric of course), trading solos. He travelled on our bus and I spent a substantial amount of time in his company which led to me playing guitar (uncredited along with Jay Dee Daugherty) on his 1990 album The Wonder. Verlaine was a great inspiration to me as he never seemed to hit the notes that others chose. He was that intoxicating mixture of high competence and risk, emotional and raw, and able to sustain long guitar solos that were always disappointing when they stopped. It’s all in the fingers and I remember his wiry hands, he was tall and slim, almost a statue. He was thoughtful and always very kind to me, he gave me books about the French writers of the previous two centuries because he knew I was interested and once when his guitar broke he used my 12-string acoustic and made a point of telling the audience it was mine and how grateful he was for letting him use it."
― Vast Halo, Sunday, 29 January 2023 21:52 (one year ago) link
Now that's a generous post and a good memory for sure.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 29 January 2023 21:54 (one year ago) link
Lovely late afternoon listening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzmFiOLKAwM
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 January 2023 22:42 (one year ago) link
Made a mix of cool Television covers: https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2023/01/29/television-tell-a-vision/
I think it does a decent job of showing off what a good pop band they were under the surface. So many hooks!
― tylerw, Sunday, 29 January 2023 22:43 (one year ago) link
Friend of mine who's a young musician who worked with Tony Visconti said this in response to my mentioning that Verlaine was supposed to play on the cover but was replaced by Fripp:
"I believe it was less that Bowie was unhappy and more that Verlaine spent the entire studio session trying to find the right guitar tone, as Tony put it to me, “he had 30 guitar amps setups and just kept going around to each one trying to find the right sound. We had to go get lunch at some point and he just kept searching”"
then wrote:
"yeah, Tony couldn’t remember if they had gotten some takes down or not, there may be some Verlaine takes on a tape somewhere. Also, interesting note, Carlos Alomar was the one who suggested they cover the song."
― dan selzer, Sunday, 29 January 2023 23:51 (one year ago) link
my own cover/tribute of "see no evil" is here, if you can fish it out of this ancient url. tv nerds please hang for the lead, which is a bit of a mashup.https://tv.obbard.com/tribute/
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 00:09 (one year ago) link
This is old but new to me, great writing, one of the best things I've read about the band
https://www.theringer.com/music/2022/4/13/23022787/television-marquee-moon-tom-verlaine-richard-hell
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 00:22 (one year ago) link
Here and there I’ve seen intimations that there are issues with the TV section of From the Velvets to the Voidoids, does anyone know what those might be? Factual issues, or just people hating Clinton Heylin because he’s a jerk?
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 01:20 (one year ago) link
xpost what a great piecethx for posting ums!
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 January 2023 03:31 (one year ago) link
Really great writer, her band The Paranoid Style is worth checking out too
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 03:39 (one year ago) link
In recent years I've returned most to the 1992 Television album, which has this sharp crystalline sound like clear skies through huge windows in winter, where you feel heat and cold at once. The current of giddy anxiety running through that record is really special.
I've heard different things about how complete that fourth Television album was. Such things are always ambiguous, but was it close to finished product? I'll check out Thus Sang Freud's link — I think he posted it once before and I never got around to listening, figuring some day I'd hear "definitive" versions. Presumably not now.
― eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Monday, 30 January 2023 04:16 (one year ago) link
Someone on the TV Facebook group also posted this zip file of unreleased songs. Haven't listened yet so not sure how much overlap there is.
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/2aad3be6ea315c9e1be7798818926c0720230129094049/39d21a?fbclid=IwAR1n-3qouesTEK6KIV-AHuyAEvRzzs25TadxK7--xe-VDPAbrnu9wKkRuCM
― Alba, Monday, 30 January 2023 08:00 (one year ago) link
In recent years I've returned most to the 1992 Television album, which has this sharp crystalline sound like clear skies through huge windows in winter,
yes! Been promoting this album for years
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 January 2023 10:27 (one year ago) link
nice comment on times obit:
Book SellerNJJan. 29When I moved to New York several years back, I became a daily fixture outside the Strand Bookstore browsing their $1 and $2 books. I would sit along the wall reading and talking with others under the awning watching hours pass as frantic city life continued in the background. Quickly, I got to know everyone who would put in the same amount of hours perusing the book carts (Tom Verlaine was one of them).
I noticed him right away: a tall, commanding presence dressed always in black, often obscured by plumes of cigarette smoke. We would talk more and more and eventually grew to spending hours and hours outside talking to pass the time while waiting for the new arrivals. I had no idea the celebrity he was (just that he was a musician), and never did it come up. Another acquaintance finally let me in on the secret one day, after Tom and I had already shared countless months of near daily conversations.
He was warm, brilliant, and engaging. Always curious about me (with no reason to be) and just curious in general. Oh, and an excellent bookman in addition to his many more obvious talents.
To imagine passing by the Strand and not seeing him is nauseating. He will be sorely missed, and I loved the time we spent together.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 12:22 (one year ago) link
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Monday, 30 January 2023 12:30 (one year ago) link
Ah, New York...
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Monday, 30 January 2023 12:32 (one year ago) link
Ah, humanity
― The Big O RLY (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 30 January 2023 12:37 (one year ago) link
That is fucking wonderful
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 14:27 (one year ago) link
Good day to dig into the solo albums which I never bothered to go deep into, despite really liking the first one. Penetration on Dreamtime is next-level brilliant.
― dan selzer, Monday, 30 January 2023 14:34 (one year ago) link
Wonder if Tom Verlaine bought any books with David Markson's name in them.
― The Big O RLY (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 30 January 2023 14:34 (one year ago) link
Oh Dan you have such riches ahead of you my god
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 14:49 (one year ago) link
i saw david markson give a talk at the strand once.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 14:54 (one year ago) link
Personal ranking:Flash light Tom Verlaine Cover Dreamtime‘Lost album’ 1986 (key tracks are on The Miller’s Tale comp)Songs and other thingsWords from the front The wonder[ashamed to say I haven’t spent enough time with the two instrumental albums - warm & cool and Around]The only one there that I consider a dud is the wonder but that might change Also the live disc appended to The Miller’s tale would probably fall in second place above
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 14:54 (one year ago) link
Cover and Dreamtime would be a tie
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 14:56 (one year ago) link
As of today's listen I'm liking Dreamtime more than the first album.
― dan selzer, Monday, 30 January 2023 14:57 (one year ago) link
I think that is the consensus fave solo album nowadays
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 15:02 (one year ago) link
big fan of Words From The Front - 'True Story' and 'Days On The Mountain' are both amazing! the former has a strange post-punky groove that reminds me more than anything of peak period Simple Minds, and the latter is this epic thing that doesn't really sound like much else but the electronics + guitar do make me think of Bill Nelson
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 30 January 2023 15:05 (one year ago) link
I remember an old girlfriend of mine having "Dreamtime" (and one other I think?) and I remember liking it a lot ... that was a long time ago though!
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Monday, 30 January 2023 15:07 (one year ago) link
Vote here for Warm & Cool, which in its way was almost as formative to me as MM (I heard them both around the same time in 93-ish)
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 30 January 2023 15:26 (one year ago) link
i think verlaine's solo career mimics lou reed's in that, as much as critics praised their early bands' work for its experimentalism, they just wanted to play with super-competant musicians who would do what they asked them to do. for better and worse. which is to say that all his solo records would be better as tv records, but you can't hold that against them.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 15:47 (one year ago) link
oh great i misspell competent
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 15:49 (one year ago) link
You substituted an A for Angular.
― The Big O RLY (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 30 January 2023 15:54 (one year ago) link
haha that's one of those words that makes me stop reading a review. unless patti smith says it or something.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 15:58 (one year ago) link
Xpost days on the mountain is really fucking cool on the live CD2 of The Miller’s TaleAlso the title track of words from the front is top 5 verlaine with a holy shit guitar solo
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 16:26 (one year ago) link
BLIINNNNDDD(shreds)
oh shit yes! how could i forget
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 30 January 2023 16:34 (one year ago) link
Upon the ridge they're dug in deepWe move in waves as if asleepAnd there they lay, 4000 menThe general orders, "Attack again"One of my all time favorite lyrics
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 16:42 (one year ago) link
Loving the sister ray vibe of the Ain’t that nuthin’ run through on the Rhino compilation.
― Alicia Silver Stone (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 30 January 2023 16:49 (one year ago) link
"A Town Called Walker" boasts "It's not their tricks that I mind/it's just the way they say 'We' all the time," another killer.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 January 2023 16:52 (one year ago) link
My favorite later song of his is "All Weirded Out".
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Monday, 30 January 2023 17:03 (one year ago) link
From that album, I think I have to go with documentary, nice actress lovebird asylum seeker and the earth is in the sky
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:08 (one year ago) link
It’s basically an excellent 10 track album that has more than 10 tracks
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:09 (one year ago) link
The solo from The Dream's Dream has been running through my mind all weekend and still won't shift. That's OK.
― Alba, Monday, 30 January 2023 17:17 (one year ago) link
loool
pic.twitter.com/UsQT48307I— Marc Masters 🌵 (@Marcissist) January 30, 2023
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:21 (one year ago) link
amazing!
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:24 (one year ago) link
Well yeah.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:27 (one year ago) link
lolfunny thing is that Verlaine probably hated being lumped in with "punk" as much as he did with the Dead.
― tylerw, Monday, 30 January 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link
was he a Dead fan? I see people say that they were influenced by the Dead but Deadheads basically claim everything was influenced by the Dead...I always thought some of the further out jams of Quicksilver Messenger Service feel way more proto-Television
of course he might have been a Dead and just got sick of the comparison
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:41 (one year ago) link
Richard Lloyd was definitely into the Dead, he said he saw them a bunch at the Fillmore East in the early 70s. Verlaine, I kind of doubt it, he always said he didn't really have "rock" influences (which is slightly bullshit, but I think it's true that he was more of a jazz guy).
― tylerw, Monday, 30 January 2023 17:43 (one year ago) link
he liked the yardbirds. and 50s tunes with cool production and sounds. a friend once saw him walking down the street holding an album and ventured "hey tom, what record you got there?" tom murmured "everly brothers" and kept walking.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 17:49 (one year ago) link
yeah — this WFMU show with him DJ-ing is worth a listen: https://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/17652
(maybe someone already posted it here)
― tylerw, Monday, 30 January 2023 17:51 (one year ago) link
thanks that all scans lloyd vs. verlaine in terms of the dead as well as the yardbirds and 50s stuff
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:51 (one year ago) link
did he ever say whether he liked fairport or not? things like the solo in 'sloth' are some the most proto-television moments i can think of
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:54 (one year ago) link
i think he did end up liking Richard Thompson but professed not to having heard Fairport until after Television broke up. Adventure definitely has some Thompson-esque moments.
― tylerw, Monday, 30 January 2023 17:56 (one year ago) link
Flipping through my social media feeds this weekend, there was a point where I started to feel like I was the only American who didn't run into him book shopping.
Seriously though, the outpouring of love and appreciation was really nice to see. Always kind of held out hope for another Television record someday. Ah well.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:57 (one year ago) link
should also probably mention the Richard Hell comp Spurts which has two Neon Boys songs, one being an early version of "Love Comes in Spurts" in which you can really hear the VU/Electric Dylan influences at the fore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvvh1UZFB68
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 18:01 (one year ago) link
there allegedly is one in the can, or at least jimmy rip has said something to that effect, but i am not sure what stage of completeness it is in and which guitarists do or don't play on it.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 18:02 (one year ago) link
i think some recordings existed before richard lloyd left.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 18:04 (one year ago) link
the way i understand it, all that was left to do for a 4th television album was for Verlaine to write lyrics / record vocals. Don't think he ever did, sadly, but I'd love to be proven wrong. On those latter-day tunes that were performed live, you can tell he's singing placeholder lyrics a lot of the time.
― tylerw, Monday, 30 January 2023 18:05 (one year ago) link
i wish jimmy rip had a different name
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 18:10 (one year ago) link
yeah this is someone on the hoffman forum:
My recollection is that Lloyd kept bothering Tom to get going on recording but Tom resisted. In 2007 both sides had finally had enough.
Ripp replaced him immediately, and suddenly Tom became interested in making another Television album.
In about 2008 the tracks were recorded. They were "complete" except for vocals and Tom's guitar solos. The lyrics and melodies were never actually finalized, let alone recorded.
And that's where the project has been stalled ever since. All there is, is about a dozen backing tracks that probably no-one would be that interested in hearing twice.
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 18:11 (one year ago) link
I mean, yeah, that whole "except for vocals and Tom's guitar solos" significantly reduces my interest in hearing them.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 30 January 2023 18:20 (one year ago) link
I'd like to hear them at least once! I said way upthread that their Rhino Handmade CD of Old Waldorf and download were both OOP, but Amazon digital says otherwise (also still has equally splendid RH of Beefheart at My Father's Place, I'm Going To Do What I Wanna Do, so hopefully the Handmade Fugs as well), also OW with first two studio albs as The Complete Elektra Recordings. WLIR My Father's Place show back once again as Live...Long Island 1978.
― dow, Monday, 30 January 2023 19:37 (one year ago) link
Speaking of the Yardbirds, this is from Greil Marcus's eyewitness report (Brixton, '66), posted by birdwistheword on the Jeff Beck thread):
They were both explosive and careful, anarchic and precise. It was an unstable combination of values and it seemed to make every song feel like a risk, where anything could happen.
― dow, Monday, 30 January 2023 20:00 (one year ago) link
compared *Verlaine's* and/or Lloyd's sound, that is.
― dow, Monday, 30 January 2023 20:02 (one year ago) link
patti's tribute:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/02/13/he-was-tom-verlaine
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, 30 January 2023 20:29 (one year ago) link
maybe this has already been posted but i hadn't seen it before...
sorry, i can’t help recommending this italian interview tonite – sorry if you already know ithttps://t.co/K3xnItSFd5— ms2 (@marco_ms2) January 30, 2023
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 30 January 2023 21:55 (one year ago) link
p.s. the second half of that clip is a live marquee moon and is an absolute treat for people who wanna watch what tom's hands are doing
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 30 January 2023 21:56 (one year ago) link
also the wire are making alan licht's 2006 interview with him available for free for the next month...
Tom Verlaine (13 December 1949–28 January 2023)Tom Verlaine died on 28 January aged 73. Read Alan Licht’s 2006 cover story on the Television guitarist and singer free in our online library:https://t.co/tZTGj33b4c— The Wire Magazine (@thewiremagazine) January 30, 2023
― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Monday, 30 January 2023 21:59 (one year ago) link
Oh that patti piece Tears are streaming rn
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Monday, 30 January 2023 22:34 (one year ago) link
goddammit patti <3 ;_;
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 January 2023 22:52 (one year ago) link
yeah, that Patti piece is a tearjerker. When she's good, she's good! wow.
― tylerw, Monday, 30 January 2023 22:56 (one year ago) link
really moving, wow
In his final hours, watching him sleep, I travelled backward in time. We were in the apartment, and he cut my hair, and some pieces stuck out this way and that, so he called me Winghead. In the years to follow, simply Wing. Even when we got older, always Wing. And he, the boy who never grew up, aloft the Omega, a golden filament in the vibrant violet light.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2023 23:02 (one year ago) link
"Winghead" is in "Little Johnny Jewel", how about that?
― Mark G, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 07:30 (one year ago) link
That interview / performance .
― Mark G, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 07:47 (one year ago) link
nice piece by dean wareham:https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/01/31/encounters-with-tom-verlaine/
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 12:09 (one year ago) link
I think that's a picture of Lloyd in Couterpunch article. It's a nice read though.
― brownie, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 12:50 (one year ago) link
His friend Patti Smith said somewhere that Verlaine “plays lead guitar with angular inverted passion like a thousand bluebirds screaming” — but that says more about her than it does about him.
lol ouch
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 12:52 (one year ago) link
Yes and no
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 13:05 (one year ago) link
Time is a crashing thing That’s what the old book said One day you’ll be a saintI’d better make my bed I know the ink is dry I know they do not lie I’d better make my bid
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 14:07 (one year ago) link
Lol. Love Dean W.
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 14:24 (one year ago) link
Yeah, an educational essay (and his own memoir, written well before the trend began, remains a favorite).
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 14:27 (one year ago) link
fun memoir. good insight into Stan Demeski's humor, which prepared me for my oft-repeated anecdote where the night I met him he simply walked up to me, shook my hand and said "were are my royalties, motherfucker."
I also enjoy reading Damon Krakowski these days, but can't say Dean's book didn't color my view.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 14:31 (one year ago) link
Dean's memoir is a blast. "We were dogs but we weren't pigs" (On Luna refusing to allow the lighting guy to scout for attractive women to invite backstage)
― Alba, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 16:51 (one year ago) link
I remember one incident he writes about related to that about his "rock and roll slip" that was really well-described.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 16:53 (one year ago) link
good insight into Stan Demeski's humor, which prepared me for my oft-repeated anecdote where the night I met him he simply walked up to me, shook my hand and said "were are my royalties, motherfucker."
I met Stan last year and he was very nice, but immediately turned to my friend and growled "Take that fuckin Mets hat off!"
― tylerw, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:00 (one year ago) link
Sometimes Verlaine's guitar did sound something like that, and even if it hadn't DW's music police comment says more about him than her.
― dow, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link
hearing police, commentary police, something objective, no doubt.
― dow, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:31 (one year ago) link
well, she did use "angular"
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:40 (one year ago) link
True.
― dow, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:42 (one year ago) link
― Thus Sang Freud, Monday, January 30, 2023 3:58 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:44 (one year ago) link
Depending on the angle of the dangle.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:44 (one year ago) link
"angular" in 1974 tho: critical first-use klaxon bid?
― mark s, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:46 (one year ago) link
That's what I was gonna say, is there an earlier documented use?
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:48 (one year ago) link
Gonna go add that to the Patti Smith wiki. "First known use of 'angular' to describe Tom Verlaine's guitar playing."
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:51 (one year ago) link
also first known use of "bluebirds" tbf
― mark s, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:53 (one year ago) link
here's the whole thing, fwiw:http://www.thewonder.co.uk/rckscene.htm
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:54 (one year ago) link
"languid" and "angular" within a couple sentences of each other.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:56 (one year ago) link
Burn witch burn xxxp No! Stephen Stills! "Bluebird" singular, because it's an absolute!---ly killer track, grunting aside on that other take.
― dow, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 17:58 (one year ago) link
hmm did not want to give the impression i was taking down patti, if that's how it read.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 18:09 (one year ago) link
No prob with your observations, but I'm maybe gonna sic Tar on DW when she gets back.
― dow, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 18:17 (one year ago) link
i think i will see Tar after i am aloft the omega.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 18:24 (one year ago) link
Don't see it 'til you can see it for free, seriously! Check thread for details (Spoiler: we of ILE were not too thrilled.)
― dow, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 18:30 (one year ago) link
did no one use angular on the velvets
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 18:50 (one year ago) link
I think of the Velvets as more of a square wave.
Regardless, I always thought there should be more geometry in music criticism.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 18:56 (one year ago) link
there is room for both the pattis and deans in this thriving, very "now" lineage of guitar-based rock music
― ꙮ (map), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:01 (one year ago) link
Beefheart maybe?
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:23 (one year ago) link
Lester Bangs, Creem, March 1971.
In Lick My Decals Off, Baby (Straight Rs-6420) this vision is extended, and even though the sonic textures are sometimes even more complex and angular than on Trout Mask, the lyrics have taken an added universality, many of them stepping back a stride from the kaleidoscopic image-clusters of last year’s songs.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:32 (one year ago) link
Busted! Did Verlaine ever play keyboards or anything else other than guitar in the studio or shows?
― dow, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:33 (one year ago) link
He plays the keys on the first two Television albums, various other solo records. Don't think he ever played live though.
here's my hot take — "angular" is a fine way to describe certain bands/artists.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:36 (one year ago) link
I can imagine "angular" being used in jazz reviews before 1971 tbh.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:37 (one year ago) link
tyler otm. I don't mind angular either, it's useful to describe a certain kind of playing that doesn't sound like other kinds of playing: melodic, bluesy, beboppy aka "that Chinese music" etc.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:42 (one year ago) link
I've made a career using angular.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:50 (one year ago) link
i don't think I'd call the VU "angular" though
― tylerw, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:51 (one year ago) link
No, nor I.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:53 (one year ago) link
Wonder if anyone ever submitted a rejected jbr Christmas tune named "Angular Bells."
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:54 (one year ago) link
Heh, not on this borad, maybe, but elsewhere it exists.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:55 (one year ago) link
Did Verlaine ever play keyboards or anything else other than guitar in the studio or shows?
― dow, T
He always played the keyboards. His 1984 album Cover is a synth-pop record.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
He had a good story about working out the interlocking guitar parts of "Venus" on the piano, I think he said it didn't make sense until he moved over to the keyboard.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:58 (one year ago) link
I don't know if I'd go that far as calling it "synth-pop". I'd be lying if I said I heard it before yesterday but the few times I've listened since then...it def has some 80s production hallmarks (tastefully), but it's still guitars up front.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 19:59 (one year ago) link
Sure, but it had more synths than any album before or after. He never attempted something like "O Foolish Heart," one of my favorite Verlaine jams.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 20:00 (one year ago) link
listened to Warm and Cool on YouTube yesterday, what an amazing album, hard to find sadly.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
Though it would have obviously been...er "unlikely" I always wished Verlaine would have made a record like it with Quine, who recorded a very similar sort of instrumental record with Ikue Mori & Marc Ribot
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:00 (one year ago) link
^^ great great album, that Quine/Mori/Ribot. belongs in the "wide open desert music" thread.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:01 (one year ago) link
Did anyone else besides me ever see The dBs cover "See No Evil"? For me this would have been at one of the two winter of 84-85 dates at The Grotto in New Haven.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 00:23 (one year ago) link
is there a definitive book about Television?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 01:22 (one year ago) link
It would probably bore us, though how a boho figure like Verlaine lived in Manhattan despite making little money in Television is the kind of crinkle that always fascinates me.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 01:28 (one year ago) link
He was a superduper cheapskate pennypincher is what I heard but yeah.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 01:38 (one year ago) link
you can't live in Manhattan just on being a pennypincher -- did he come from money?
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 01:57 (one year ago) link
Dunno. Don't think so. Maybe lived in the same rent-controlled apartment for decades?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 02:13 (one year ago) link
Yeah, it's likely a combination of things. 1) Rent controlled apartment (very likely if he never moved), 2) he lived modestly, 3) probably had some money from family (didn't they enroll him in a prep school?), 4) probably made a decent amount of income from his music, maybe more from overseas sales (Television's albums did enter the top ten in the UK, I think his solo albums did better there too) plus licensing (his music does pop up occasionally on well-budgeted television shows and films).
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 02:29 (one year ago) link
Kate Pierson mentioned on FB that she and Verlaine lived in the same building for years.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 03:01 (one year ago) link
5) Those Television reunion gigs probably paid decently.
the 33 1/3 book about Marquee Moon is good and more or less covers their entire career in the 1970s — there could be more about Adventure, but it goes pretty far past MM.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 03:02 (one year ago) link
The 33 1/3 book plus the television section of from the velvets to the voidoids
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 03:46 (one year ago) link
yonki time is super annoying to me but i always put up with it just to hear his speaking voice. i don't even have anything to add about it, i just, y'know, used to like being able to hear what he sounded like before youtube immersed the world in omnivideo. ha i've never even gone to yt to see his interviews. it's yonki time w/e that means.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 03:49 (one year ago) link
*realizes yt also stands for: YONKI TIME*
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 03:50 (one year ago) link
There’s a cool spoken word over improv track from the reunion album sessions, “The Revolution”, where you can get your fill. It was included at the end of The Miller’s Tale. Xpost
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 03:56 (one year ago) link
4a) and a bump in earnings every time Scary Monsters was reissued.
― visiting, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 04:21 (one year ago) link
... was about to say.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 07:50 (one year ago) link
google says tv had an estimated net worth of 3mil but who knows. i'm not sure he always lived in the same apt, because some articles say e11th and others (dean wareham) say chelsea so he might have moved.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 10:17 (one year ago) link
Those Google net worth things are total BS I think.
― Alba, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 11:21 (one year ago) link
Do not underestimate the amount of reputable downtown musicians living in rent controlled apartments in soho, the east village, alphabet city and the LES.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 12:32 (one year ago) link
One of those networth googlebait pages also suggests that TV married Lizzie Mercier Descloux in 1997 - surely that's not true?
― Piedie Gimbel, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 13:15 (one year ago) link
Dan otm. There is some kind of grandfather clause or something.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 13:26 (one year ago) link
I visited Elliott Sharp in the mid 90s at his apt in alphabet city, was a storied building. I think Richard Hell lived there as well. And many years before Ginsberg and Kerouac I think. The bathtub was in the kitchen, classic. Meanwhile I have a friend who grew up in soho on Prince st in a loft the length of a building. I believe they’re still paying 700 a month.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 13:42 (one year ago) link
Until he died in 2013 my uncle in Jackson Heights paid $390 a month for a two-bedroom.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 13:47 (one year ago) link
great great album, that Quine/Mori/Ribot. belongs in the "wide open desert music" thread.
Pretty sure I put it in there!
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 14:02 (one year ago) link
About his apartment, a photographer named Stefano Giovannini posted this on Facebook along with nine photos of tv:Several years ago I spent an afternoon taking photos of Tom Verlaine. He was one of the most representative musicians of the New York I was drawn to. Television's Marquee Moon, still sound so fresh, with long guitar passages that make you feel that in life everything is possible. (…)He lived at London Terrace in Chelsea. he told me he bought the apartment for very little with a record advance he got from a Television record (could have been Marquee Moon), but he lamented how the maintenance expenses were going up significantly, as wealthier people were now on the coop condominium board. It was a very chilly February day,. it was snowy and Tom's eyes were teary from the wind. We ended up at the art bookstore Printed matter.
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 14:09 (one year ago) link
Did you ever visit that uncle, Alfred?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 14:10 (one year ago) link
oh too have bought in London Terrace. To rent a 1 bedroom there now you're looking at $4,950 a month in rent. There's two 1 bedrooms listed right now, who knows, maybe one of them was Tom's.
My aunt moved to chelsea in the early/mid 80s, it was a very different place back then obviously.
Fond memories of Midnight Records on 23rd and the comic book store across the street.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 14:48 (one year ago) link
Yes xpost
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 14:55 (one year ago) link
No doubt it hastened his death, but a part of me appreciates Tom Verlaine still smoking while hanging out at The Strand's outdoor dollar bins.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 14:56 (one year ago) link
Now I kind of want to know exactly what block your uncle lived on but maybe that's TMI.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:07 (one year ago) link
I feel like the record advance being referenced (that he used to buy his apt) could have been for the 1992 self titled album rather than MMAlso it’s like two blocks from my work and I have walked past it thousands of times, there’s no way I didn’t obliviously walk right past tv at least once, probably with my headphones on lol
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:17 (one year ago) link
Starting to think the same thing. At least in front of or near The Strand.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:44 (one year ago) link
Last night I was listening to Marquee Moon. When it was over it keep going and it took me a few seconds to identify what I thought was a Television bonus track when in fact it was a song by another artist that the autoplay algorithm chose, "Fragile" by Wire.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:47 (one year ago) link
Still wondering what to think of, how to describe the Television rhythm section. Their like the Crazy Horse version of The Modern Lovers rhythm section.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:51 (one year ago) link
This case is closed.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:52 (one year ago) link
I would describe them as "jazzy."
Billy Ficca certainly looked like he could be in Crazy Horse.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:53 (one year ago) link
yeah i think they are pretty accomplished compared to the horse
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:54 (one year ago) link
Matt, I listened to your podcast with Matt Sweeney, really really enjoyed it!
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 15:55 (one year ago) link
Marquee Moon became an album I retreat into when I'm going through a tough time, and I've been hammering it hard this winter. For this to happen now, while the songs are so present in my life, feels particularly destabilizing.
I also wonder if I ever saw him at the Strand and just didn't realize. I worked right by Union Square for a long time. The stories of him being so kind to all the employees there are really moving to me. It looks like he was a genuinely good person who treated people well.
Maybe this one got linked already? The whole thread is worth a read:
Tom Verlaine was always nice to me when I was working at @strandbookstore tending the dollar carts. He came around a lot. Tall dude. He must have lived somewhere close by in the Village. pic.twitter.com/JTsXUtRGRO— Liam O’Brien (@LiamIsTalking) January 28, 2023
― Position Position, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:00 (one year ago) link
that’s a lovely thread
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:17 (one year ago) link
Yes. I didn't quite understand this bit though.
Dodging rain and under strict directions to NOT box up any damp books, we started pulling armfuls of red and white hardcovers off the carts, stripping their dust jackets and stuffing them into trash bags.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:36 (one year ago) link
Oh I guess the books themselves were red and white but not the dustjackets.
I can feel my brane started to plant a false memory of a Strand sighting.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:37 (one year ago) link
I mean there were probably plenty of guys I saw who looked vaguely like him, why didn't I put two and two together?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:38 (one year ago) link
didn't verlaine work at strand himself in his early nyc days?
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:49 (one year ago) link
i kind of envision that scene as a hardcore book person's challenge to pick out the wheat from what the booksellers themselves think is chaff.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:51 (one year ago) link
Used to see TV around London Terrace when i worked in that hood in the mid-late 90s. Debbie Harry lived / lives there as well and we both used the same video store. One time I was renting "Pixote" and she asked me "Whatcha got there?". I showed her the title and she cringed "Oh no! Too violent for me!" (my heart was a - flutter, I tell ya )
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 16:54 (one year ago) link
I can imagine
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 17:08 (one year ago) link
The only time I saw Debbie Harry in the flesh (pun intended!) that wasn't at a show of hers (or otherwise, she was at a Yeah Yeah Yeahs show at the Cooler, Bjork too, at the very beginning of their hype), was at the chelsea flea market walking the stalls with Chris. Was very excited.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 18:43 (one year ago) link
haven't seen harry around, but i've seen clem burke around the east village way more than you might expect
― sault bae (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 18:50 (one year ago) link
was at the ivan julian benefit at city winery and she sat herself down at an empty chair at our table and we were, like, homina homina homina.
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 19:06 (one year ago) link
NPR has a segment on Tom this evening
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 2 February 2023 00:03 (one year ago) link
^^^ really short, like two minutes
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 2 February 2023 01:45 (one year ago) link
So 1/8 the duration of a Richard Lloyd string tuning session.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 02:01 (one year ago) link
https://t.co/hY36qjHULhIn late 1975, two Trouser Press writers brought Tom Verlaine of the then-unsigned Television to their apartment for an interview. This conversation has never previously been published. With an introductory essay and audio clips from the conversation.— trouserpress (@trouserpress) February 1, 2023
― city worker, Thursday, 2 February 2023 03:20 (one year ago) link
Ok wow I better find a comfy chair for this one
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 2 February 2023 04:16 (one year ago) link
Wow
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 06:48 (one year ago) link
he worked at the Strand! <3
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 2 February 2023 07:03 (one year ago) link
Well look at that
Original Robert Mapplethorpe photo used for the cover of Marquee Moon. pic.twitter.com/Xf94fBDz1J— Tyler Wilcox (@tywilc) February 1, 2023
― Alba, Thursday, 2 February 2023 10:54 (one year ago) link
omg so good. it was mapplethorpe. huh.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Thursday, 2 February 2023 11:36 (one year ago) link
Pretty blurry!
― Alba, Thursday, 2 February 2023 11:48 (one year ago) link
what a different vibe, feel like the dark, kinda gothic look of the cover sets a specific mood
― corrs unplugged, Thursday, 2 February 2023 11:59 (one year ago) link
That walking lobotomy, Lou Reed
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 12:06 (one year ago) link
That was one of the interviewers I think, there are two interviewers, they formatted the article really weird
Really an amazing read
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:19 (one year ago) link
i don't know why that photo is so remarkable to me. the way the lighting was edited in the final version -and i realized immediately on seeing the og how stupid this thought was- i always assumed it was an oil on canvas portrait of the band. i mean the way it ended up, lloyd looks like a friggin undead on the cover.
very cool.
― "i'm grateful." (Austin), Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:29 (one year ago) link
the story i heard is tom verlaine took the mapplethorpe print and ran it through a xerox machine for a few iterations.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:31 (one year ago) link
The formatting was totally weird. Italics for one of the interviewers but the other interviewer’s comments were intermingled with Tom’s, it seemed.Did you read the thing about The Ramones on your favorite substack TSF?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:38 (one year ago) link
yup i saw that. i was a newsday reader back in 1975 and i suspect some of those articles played a part in my decision to to to a nyc scool for undergraduate.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:41 (one year ago) link
to *go* to. it's too too too to put a finger on.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:42 (one year ago) link
i'd also picked up punk magazine #1 because lou's cartoon face was calling out to me from the racks in the penn station magazine shop. and i was a creem subscriber. and a friend who was a year older had already seen tv. and i had the patti smith album. i was primed.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:46 (one year ago) link
Goodness me, "Breakin' in My Heart" is such a good performance.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:57 (one year ago) link
i've been listening nonstop to a comp someone posted a link to uptread with 9 early tv songs that never made their way onto a record. it conculdes with tv doing 'breakin in my heart.'
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 14:02 (one year ago) link
so the actual lyrics to "Fire Engine" are "Let me take you to DMT space"? haha
― brownie, Thursday, 2 February 2023 14:06 (one year ago) link
Have heard that before.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 14:15 (one year ago) link
Richard Lloyd, apparently:
Richard Lloyd: pic.twitter.com/bMHLIWuGmd— Tyler Wilcox (@tywilc) February 1, 2023
― Alba, Thursday, 2 February 2023 14:29 (one year ago) link
Do we know that is a reliable source?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 14:31 (one year ago) link
j/k!
from the racks in the penn station magazine shopHa! Did you also visit the arcade and play Asteroids or whatever?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 14:32 (one year ago) link
if there was an arcade in penn station i don't remember it. if they were fifty cents i might have blocked them from my memory. i was a "three balls for a quater" man.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 14:42 (one year ago) link
richard hell says it's too soon to write about him.https://www.richardhell.com/
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 15:50 (one year ago) link
that's cool he called out a relative deep cut — I love "Scientist Writes A Letter" too.
― tylerw, Thursday, 2 February 2023 15:58 (one year ago) link
I'm okay with Richard saying that. He's usually pretty thoughtful about these things. I always compare how he talked about Robert Quine with whatever non-statement we got from Lou.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 16:01 (one year ago) link
Possibly my favorite from his solo albums, and it's essentially my favorite supergroup of all-time - too bad it's the only track all four ever recorded together!
― birdistheword, Thursday, 2 February 2023 16:08 (one year ago) link
Because it has...Ricky WIlson?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 16:11 (one year ago) link
Does anyone know if the "tell a vision" pun in "Little Johnny Jewel" predates the band name?
― Chris L, Thursday, 2 February 2023 16:14 (one year ago) link
xp
Tom Verlaine (Television)Fred Smith (Blondie then Television)Jay Dee Daugherty (Patti Smith Group)Ricky Wilson (The B-52's)
― birdistheword, Thursday, 2 February 2023 16:14 (one year ago) link
Which is a good reason of course. Anyway, listening now, sounds good.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 16:16 (one year ago) link
finally got a copy of that rhino/RTI pressing from over a decade ago in the mail today, this just blows away the CD/streaming version
obv Verlaine and Lloyd are amazing, but Fred Smith's bass playing on this record is just perfect, as big an influence to me as the guitars
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 2 February 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link
Some cool Hell and Verlaine interview in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwb9FWSTt_k
― his cartoon heart expands, then he relaxes by smoking crack (stevie), Thursday, 2 February 2023 17:16 (one year ago) link
https://500songs.com/podcast/pledge-week-youre-gonna-miss-me-by-the-thirteenth-floor-elevators/
The album’s liner notes were written by Hall and had a large amount of advocacy for the use of psychedelic drugs — as did the music itself, though some of this was a little more subtle, like the song “Fire Engine”, where the line “let me take you to the empty place” was meant to sound like “DMT place”, DMT being a psychedelic drug
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 17:40 (one year ago) link
XpostScientist writes a letter was the one that made me cry this Sunday
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 2 February 2023 18:56 (one year ago) link
This one is slow-release for me. I was too stressed out and numbed out by other stuff when I heard, only last night and this morning am I starting to really feel it. I don’t think of myself as the biggest Television fan, not because I am not a fan but because there are obviously bigger fans like Tyler, to name just one. Also maybe gave into the ancestral instinct to take sides and ended up taking Richard’s side in the TV Wars. But now I am starting to just be reminded of what I always knew, how original Verlaine was, hopefully not in some tired Cult of the New Originalities way but in the sense of really hearing something else in his head and finding ways to express that without being constrained by any of the myriad cliches associated with his instrument.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 19:19 (one year ago) link
Also made me really happy to see what somebody like Rob Sheffield wrote about him.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 19:20 (one year ago) link
For those looking for more from TV, I offer this gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4QFgbZBNFY
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 2 February 2023 19:56 (one year ago) link
Damnit, it's a Youtube upload of the 'lost' 1986 album.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 2 February 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
Revisiting Songs & Other Things, his last vocal album — really strong stuff! Great guitar sound, some really good songs. Worth discovering if you haven't checked it out.
― tylerw, Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:14 (one year ago) link
It has been clear tah Fire Engine was a cover of a 13th Floor Elevators song hasn't it?
Also I saw a few photos of the band over the last while and wondered how out of step with then current fashion the band seemed at the time. Seems to be a level of thrift shop- chic going on, not sure how much of a focus there has been on that. I know a lot has been said about Richard Hell ripping clothing and using safety pins to keep things together. But the way the rest of teh band looked surely isn't current to the time is it? Wonder to what extent it was noticeable to the man in the street.They seemed to do it well so it looks somewhat iconic now but I wonder about then.
I got reminded of a couple of episodes I saw of Starsky & Hutch where coworkers were mocking them for wearing clothing way out of date and wonder if those who saw these on the street had similar ideas.
― Stevolende, Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:46 (one year ago) link
That interview upthread is fantastic. Love the Cale bits, and this:
"Our drummer, though, is real Chick Corea-oriented. Sometime when you come, you should just focus on him for like three songs. He’s really an amazing drummer. I never really listened to him but I was listening to him on our single. He’s really got so many little things going.
He doesn’t drum like a rock drummer.
No. He doesn’t. Not at all. He’s really fantastic.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:50 (one year ago) link
The "Fire Engine" cover was mis-titled "The Blow-Up" on the archival Television live album of the same name.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:51 (one year ago) link
And
I like John Cale’s records. His two records on Island. That’s why Patti thought he’d be so good, because the sound on those records is good. Turns out it’s a guy named John Wood, who mixes and engineers them. He’s a real ace. I’d like to get him for a record. He flies over here and only charges $600 a week, which isn’t bad. Producers cost, what? $50,000, $60,000.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:51 (one year ago) link
yeah that was interesting! John Wood could've had yet another total classic LP to his name ...
― tylerw, Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:53 (one year ago) link
Yes, those two things stood out for me as well. Tryiing to remember what Iggy said about Cale in I Need More: he'd come into the room with an aura of mystery and twirl his cape or something.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:54 (one year ago) link
just remembered that Verlaine is quoted in the Nick Drake Fruit Tree box set liners ...
― tylerw, Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:59 (one year ago) link
Really, what did he say?
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:00 (one year ago) link
Was it anything like
When we started recording, Nico and John Cale used to sit in the booth looking like they were in the Addams Family - Cale was wearing a Dracula cape with a great big collar on it. He looked like Z-Man in Beyond the Valley of the Dolls and he had this funny haircut.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:01 (one year ago) link
https://i.discogs.com/d-Ah7mx5steyLsVLoAFNwZWVJ7snAGXXw-B8WV_rUcE/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:534/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExOTQw/MDQtMTQwOTEwNzEx/Ny02MTQ2LmpwZWc.jpeg
― tylerw, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:03 (one year ago) link
A lot of links. Which one to the Cale bits?
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:03 (one year ago) link
I forgot
And Nico was knitting. Throughout that whole album, she sat there knitting something, maybe a sweater.[
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:03 (one year ago) link
The Trouser Press interview (xp)
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:04 (one year ago) link
John Cale quite likes us. He wants to produce us, but he’s not technically oriented. He’s really good as the guy in the other room to make you go nuts. To really get you to do it in a room, instead of on a stage, but he doesn’t know which buttons to push. He’s always too high to know how to mix, and he’s always like, “Add the guitar, voice louder than…” He’ll have the voice going so loud that it sounds like the drums are inside somebody’s vocal cords or something. Patti had to mix that whole album herself. Have you heard that record?...I like “Kimberly.” There’s an example of Cale, man. They had this fantastic four-part harmony at the end of that song, it goes from “the palm trees” , and there’s like this Tahitian harmony, like “palm trees fall into” … and Cale just wiped it off. It was just fantastic, too.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:07 (one year ago) link
Reminds me of that line about Cale producing several epochal debuts but was rarely called back for sequels.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:09 (one year ago) link
Re: John Wood. I think Tom's claim not to have heard Fairport Convention until after Television split up is looking a tad more dubious.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:11 (one year ago) link
haha yeah — trying to remember where I saw that quote ...
― tylerw, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:19 (one year ago) link
The Fire Engines named themselves after Television covering the 13th Floor Elevators.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:21 (one year ago) link
There was some similar Cale sorta shade in the Bob Mould book:
That September, after Hüsker Dü played a show with Dead Kennedys in Chicago, John Cale appeared backstage, offering his production services. He was intoxicated and kept trying to hug us and lift us off the ground. Despite his undeniable influence on the previous two decades of modern music, we politely declined his kind offer, as we were a little surprised and unnerved by his behavior. But the fact that Cale had heard about the band was surprising, and it signaled how quickly our reputation was spreading.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:28 (one year ago) link
Feel like there may be more dry ice and cape-swirling stories involving The Modern Lovers and/or Patti Smith but lots of luck finding them.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 02:07 (one year ago) link
No doubt John Cale learned a lot about producing from Tom Wilson.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 02:08 (one year ago) link
Cale was married to a clothes designer in the late 60s. I thought by the mid 70s he was dressing a lot more casually verging on the downbeat.
I was remembering a reference to a producer tied in with the Fairports or similar era Britfolk but couldn't think who was being refered to or where. But it would male sense it was in the Fruit Tree box set liners. I only had the box for a short time cos I found the sound really sibilant. Sounded like Drake was lisping on every letter he could. I don't think I have heard that on later masterings, not sure if I had a duff copy of the box.
― Stevolende, Friday, 3 February 2023 07:39 (one year ago) link
Betsey Johnson. He talks about that relationship and at least one other in What’s Welsh For Zen. Don’t recall whether she bought or designed the cape or not but that first Stooges album was produced around the time they were married.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 11:54 (one year ago) link
the noise guy --> wife guy --> cape guy pipeline
― mark s, Friday, 3 February 2023 11:57 (one year ago) link
The guard at the front asked me to write a note. I did and explained who I was. Verlaine came out, looked at me with that inscrutable stare/glare
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 12:05 (one year ago) link
Jonathan Richman works too. Maybe they could have bonded discussing the Cale production method, but Jojo probably wouldn’t have wanted to talk about it.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 12:08 (one year ago) link
He went to school with the guy in the Wailers, Al Anderson, the lead guitar player. They went to the same high school.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 12:24 (one year ago) link
Cale & Betsey & cape
https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltc6qrKVTW1qhyxxwo1_250.jpg
― Piedie Gimbel, Friday, 3 February 2023 13:33 (one year ago) link
That cape was probably picked up from Dracula in Memphis
― a (waterface), Friday, 3 February 2023 13:37 (one year ago) link
The Z-Man comparison is spot on... whoever made it... was it Iggy?
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Friday, 3 February 2023 13:39 (one year ago) link
The guard at the front asked me to write a note.
and I asked him how he don't go mad?
― Vast Halo, Friday, 3 February 2023 13:56 (one year ago) link
Of course it was Iggy.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 13:57 (one year ago) link
Cale & Betsey & capeAwesome, thanks!
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 14:01 (one year ago) link
More memories of TV at the Strand https://georgeszamuely.substack.com/p/my-memories-of-tom-verlaineas linked from James Wolcott's LRB blogpost https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2023/february/remembering-tom-verlaine
― Piedie Gimbel, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link
some sweet Verlaine rarities this week (including a previously uncirculated SBD tape from 1981): https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.substack.com/p/doom-and-gloom-dispatch-14-souvenir
― tylerw, Friday, 3 February 2023 17:03 (one year ago) link
Once Hell was replaced by Fred Smith, a bassist of the stalwart sentry-duty John Entwistle school
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:17 (one year ago) link
Also, a mention of Deerfrance, another Cale connection! Hope she is doing okay.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:19 (one year ago) link
apparently she is
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:26 (one year ago) link
Solid Wolcott reminscence.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:37 (one year ago) link
man i love all these reminiscences. that George Szamuely piece was fascinating & very sweet. keep them coming!
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:46 (one year ago) link
Sometimes I want to dismiss Wolcott as yet another graphomaniac Paulette but he sure can write.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 19:09 (one year ago) link
George Szamuely is a character himself: "Szamuely was arrested by the New York Police Department on October 5, 1999, for having 570 overdue library books from the New York University campus library, many of them rare or out of print, which he stored inside 29 bags in his apartment, and which he refused to return after repeated warnings. His fines ran up to $31,000, although this was allegedly the cost of replacing them."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Szamuely
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:54 (one year ago) link
i can sort of see why verlaine might have put his book recommendations back on the shelf.
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 3 February 2023 20:06 (one year ago) link
Oh hi. I just went through this whole thing of wondering why I never saw him outside The Strand to realizing I probably did see him and have one of these interactions.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 4 February 2023 16:55 (one year ago) link
some sweet Verlaine rarities this week (including a previously uncirculated SBD tape from 1981): https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.substack.com/p/doom-and-gloom-dispatch-14-souvenir― tylerw, vrijdag 3 februari 2023 18:03 (two days ago)
― tylerw, vrijdag 3 februari 2023 18:03 (two days ago)
Been listening to some of these the past two days (thanks!), they're all amazing but holy shit @ the second half of the 1987 show - the versions of "Marquee Moon" and "Psychotic Reaction" in particular are otherwordly.Scored this 12-inch a couple of years ago, it also contains a great 1987 live version of "Marquee Moon". Not sure where it was recorded.
― willem, Sunday, 5 February 2023 20:30 (one year ago) link
This 87 show is even wilder
https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/126012509202/tom-verlaine-the-ritz-new-york-city-april-26/amp
― tylerw, Monday, 6 February 2023 01:35 (one year ago) link
Thanks so much!So, the original Horses was reissued with Horses Live, feat. Verlaine: good? Does he play on the whole thing?
― dow, Monday, 6 February 2023 04:44 (one year ago) link
"You just sold Tom Verlaine a gardening manual. Things are okay."
https://lithub.com/tom-verlaine-was-the-strands-best-customer/
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 12:41 (one year ago) link
I don't know how I ever managed to buy this classic American poetry anthology there for $1.99. Either it eluded his grasp or he just didn't do anthologies.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:08 (one year ago) link
did you get it inside? going inside is cheating.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:10 (one year ago) link
Hahaha, no!
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 13:11 (one year ago) link
https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2023/02/07/guiding-light-a-tom-verlaine-appreciation/
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:13 (one year ago) link
Thanks. Tbh getting a bit tired of the cart stories, especially since I already told mine elsewhere over the weekend.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 15:58 (one year ago) link
great stuff. Love Licht's thing about the continuation of guitar rock bypassing the 70s.
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 16:13 (one year ago) link
Yeah Tyler that’s a wonderful assemblage thank you I was worried we had now reached the phase where we no longer keep talking about Tom Verlaine every day
― realistic pillow (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 16:56 (one year ago) link
Please like and subscribe to my Television/Tom Verlaine podcast PEAK TV
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link
TVOD
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 7 February 2023 17:35 (one year ago) link
Tyler that's really really good.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 02:49 (one year ago) link
and thanks so much.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 02:50 (one year ago) link
Finally had time to read that. Stellar work as usual.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 03:45 (one year ago) link
Also just reread the interview with Tom in Feeding Back and it was even grebter than I remembered it.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 04:18 (one year ago) link
Read it whilst listening to The Blow Up which was potentially a risky maneuver but it worked out really well.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 04:19 (one year ago) link
Nice collection of tributes here, including from the Clientele's Alasdair MacLean, who based on this and the podcast he did about the Beatles, is very good on talking about other musicians' work
https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2023/02/07/guiding-light-a-tom-verlaine-appreciation/?fbclid=IwAR3zCwYhPvRHNVD4G8ZPJaGUn0pSJWi5O2DwhjzlBFjOEpzH94TWCNtsYRQ
― Alba, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 14:35 (one year ago) link
heh, just posted upthread by the fabulous tylerw who did the compiling
very much enjoyed alasdair's perspective, what's that podcast he did on the beatles?
― corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 14:55 (one year ago) link
D'oh - sorry missed that!
Alasdair was the guest on the Your Own Personal Beatles podcast back in October 21
https://shows.acast.com/personalbeatles/episodes/alasdsair-maclean
― Alba, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:01 (one year ago) link
Does anyone have any thoughts on the first line of Venus? Lyrics sites say "It was a tight toy night", which makes no sense to me but who knows? I think I always heard it as "Tight, torn night"
― Alba, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:15 (one year ago) link
I thought tight torn night
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:19 (one year ago) link
Another site has it as "tight tour night" which I suppose sounds the most literally plausible.
― Alba, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:25 (one year ago) link
lyric sheet on the album sleeve "tight toy night" ... don't know what it means, but I like it!
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:30 (one year ago) link
So...the only Verlaine album I hadn't paid attention to, Words from the Front, is the weakest? The title track and "Days on the Mountain" are the strongest; the rest just flits away.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:32 (one year ago) link
The production is very odd — I think even Verlaine admitted that he did not like how it sounded by the time he finished it. I like "Postcard From Waterloo," too, and "Clear It Away" would sound great live in the next few years.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:35 (one year ago) link
Postcard From Waterloo is gorgeous
― Alba, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:37 (one year ago) link
ah forgot about the lyric sheet. I like toy better!
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 15:42 (one year ago) link
Postcard from Waterloo is based on an old Televsion song (never recorded?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0yfoIa_Wgg
― brownie, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:10 (one year ago) link
This thread much more fun than some others right now.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:15 (one year ago) link
re: that early stuff, here's a Richard Hell-era Television comp I put together way back when. Cool, weird, raw sounds! https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/149945081937/television-a-season-in-hell-sunday-re-up-ive
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 16:38 (one year ago) link
I like the track "Coming Apart" on 'Words on the Front", it doesn't really fit but then none of the tracks seem to fit with any of the other tracks on that album.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:03 (one year ago) link
Verlaine's vocals are so weird on Words (and a lot of his solo stuff in general). Sometimes his approach works, but often it seems like he's reaching for something and not quite getting there. Actually, his last vocal album from 2006 might have his most pleasing singing on it, a little more relaxed and warm.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:22 (one year ago) link
(and I say all that thinking that he can be a really fantastic singer sometimes. I read someone call him the christopher walken of rock once and I can kind of see that)
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:24 (one year ago) link
That Hell-era comp, shambling, ragged, is some of my favorite music ever, you get a sense of how thrilling they must have been even early on, this weird unholy mix of both Hell's & Veraline's approaches, and while it is clear the combination could never last there is something so charming & naive about them without being cloying, it feels so light and almost goofy
― chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 17:55 (one year ago) link
totally. that early 1974 clip that surfaced last year is just amazing in its all-out strangeness.
I like this bit from Zach Lipez:
"I can’t imagine what it was like for Tom Verlaine and Richard Hell when they were getting started; to have a weird voice, and wanting to sing for a band in NYC, without the advantage of being able to just rip off Tom Verlaine or Richard Hell."
https://zacharylipez.ghost.io/eight-unfinished-essays-on-marquee-moon/
― tylerw, Wednesday, 8 February 2023 18:01 (one year ago) link
I found the book I managed to buy off the Strand carts that one time. I paid 48 cents for it.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:32 (one year ago) link
Just put on the remastered Marquee Moon cd after not seeing it for a while. It's totally fuzzing out. Very distorted.So am just wondering if anybody else experienced that with this version.Don't want to get another copy to find out this was a widespread thing.
Shame, thought I'd finally got around to sticking some of him on. But just get what sounds like a cloud of fuzz accompanying then replacing the sound. I think other 2 discs on 3 changer are ok.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 12:43 (one year ago) link
Need to find my Miller's Tale set I think.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 12:45 (one year ago) link
I'd swap the three discs around, tbh
― Mark G, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 14:53 (one year ago) link
i realized that one reason i love television so much as they stand at the nexus of pretty much everything i love in rock music - late 60s jamming, bratty garage rock, punk, art rock, prog, crazy horse, post punk, dylan, jazz, no wave skronk...like they are kind of the center
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 14:58 (one year ago) link
Hey so what Verlaine should I lichen to if I've only heard Television?
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 14:58 (one year ago) link
listen, lol
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 14:59 (one year ago) link
The first two solo albums and Cover.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 15:04 (one year ago) link
Miller's Tale is a good compilation with a live set on 2nd disc. Not sure how widely available it is but it was a good introduction at teh time I think anyway. THink I had been aware of him for a while when I got it.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 15:18 (one year ago) link
and find as many live boots as you can (TV included). There are many scattered around the interwebs.
Also many fine TV live sets like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFEU1yXTf8w
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 15:19 (one year ago) link
Such a shame taht there isn't a rest of teh set from the OGWT clip of Foxhole. There is so much more of teh reunion on film and there's even more of the Richard Hell lineup than classic era classic lineup.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 17:33 (one year ago) link
I haven't been able to find The Miller's Tale for years.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 17:34 (one year ago) link
Just looked around at prices for it and they are going up on what I payed for it quite a bit.Not sure exactly when i got it though, may have been through CDConnection in 2003 but could be wrong.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 17:40 (one year ago) link
i got mine at the sadly defunct subterranean records owned by the sadly deceased guitarist from winter hours. every time i walked in they were guaranteed to be playing some tv live tape. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/nyregion/thecity/vinyl-idling.html
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 18:33 (one year ago) link
I don't have it anymore, but I didn't like the remaster - it sounded heavy on the compression, which is a shame because the old CD had one or two mistakes like clipping off the first note of "See No Evil."
I actually tweaked the old CD, restoring that missing note with some editing, then smoothed out the top end just a touch. (The album was always a bright sounding recording. I only dropped like 2 db at 10k.)
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 18:57 (one year ago) link
Yeah, when I got "Miller's Tale" I ended up paying double the "new" price, whereas I was hoping for half.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 19:28 (one year ago) link
subterranean is one of my top five favorite record store ever……in the 90s, I didn't do much other than hunt around record stores downtown and so I was in the that place al the time… and yeah, it would be verlaine/TV/lloyd or Richard Thompson/Fairport over the speakers, always…you are referring to the guy that didn't have the most alabaster complexion, right TSF? he's dead?
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 21:19 (one year ago) link
I was there a lot, esp the summer in college when I lived in the NYU dorms just down the street. I remember like, vintage patti smith poster on the ceiling or something, was def a classic NYC punk holdout.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 21:31 (one year ago) link
Yeah, great shop — I think I bought the classic Television boot Double Exposure there someteim in the late 90s. Carlucci passed away in 2015: https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/winter-hours-michael-carlucci-death-6746383/
― tylerw, Wednesday, 15 February 2023 21:37 (one year ago) link
Listened to Cover for the first time (and the second time). It's super satisfying in some kind of weird, like, accesibility sense. No way I'd consider it synthpop, but the keys are there, and also lots of reverb in parts that feel make the songs really feel not-like-Television for me.
The guitar repetition in Lindi Lu sounds like something a synthpop band would do with the synth lol. Way more enjoyable than I'd anticipated.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 23:39 (one year ago) link
So. 5 miles of you sounds exactly like a Bill Nelson song. A really really good one. So does the opening of traveling.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Thursday, 16 February 2023 18:50 (one year ago) link
Right? "Cover" really took me by surprise when I finally sat down with it. Still not entirely sold on "Flash Light" though it does have it's moments.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 16 February 2023 19:33 (one year ago) link
I really loved the first Verlaine album, not so much the second one, and I'm currently enjoying Cover. Wow is it Talking Heads-y though...I know that was rife and that there was some mutual influence there, but I never really got that from Television tbh.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 16 February 2023 20:54 (one year ago) link
Or rather, I can see how Television might have had an effect on David Byrne, but I never really heard it going the other way until now.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 16 February 2023 20:56 (one year ago) link
It is odd, it’s like what i wish Nelson would always sound like, but nelson did it in 1980, so he should sue. But like, it’s better, so props, Tom.If u dont know what i mean listen to Quit Dreaming … by Nelson.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Thursday, 16 February 2023 22:33 (one year ago) link
Clarification: nelson, who was awkward with lyrics, would never lyricize as terribly as Verlaine’s Miss Emily. Maybe TV was taking the piss the whole way thru because he was _that talented_ idk.
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Thursday, 16 February 2023 23:12 (one year ago) link
Holy shit i’m in the mtns and that’s so fucked, 😔
― normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Thursday, 16 February 2023 23:14 (one year ago) link
lol
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 16 February 2023 23:30 (one year ago) link
Almost kinda weird that TV never guested on a Sonic Youth album?
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 17 February 2023 18:03 (one year ago) link
this one (which is great) has ranaldo and shelley on it (plus nels cline)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8blDM3XqVg
― tylerw, Friday, 17 February 2023 18:09 (one year ago) link
That whole soundtrack's pretty cool. It's probably my favorite compilation/album of Dylan covers by a large margin.
― birdistheword, Friday, 17 February 2023 18:48 (one year ago) link
yeah definitely more hits than misses
― tylerw, Friday, 17 February 2023 18:53 (one year ago) link
Wow, that's really great. I've gathered up his b-sides, does he have many tracks exclusive to compilations?
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 17 February 2023 22:23 (one year ago) link
i think the discography on this site pretty much covers it.http://www.thewonder.co.uk/facts/index.htm
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 17 February 2023 22:39 (one year ago) link
Listening to 'Warm and Cool' on youtube now, it's sick. Billy Ficca on drums. Sometimes it sounds like nothing so much as a John Scofield album, other times skronky free improv.
― change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 21 February 2023 19:07 (one year ago) link
Anyone know why his Thrill Jockey records are out-of-print/not streaming? Seems weird, maybe that's what he wanted, or a money dispute?
― change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 21 February 2023 21:21 (one year ago) link
I’m surprised at how much I warmed to Flash Light after several listens— meh, meh, meh, eh this just ain’t it, hmm, aright, and then BAM i love this. The expanded guitar sound finally sounded more verlaine-normal or something to me.I came to this album after decades of MM and stray other stuff. From listen one I could hear his playing in this, but the mor atmospherics just didn’t work. Until they totally did. What a nice thing. Now I wonder what it would have been like if I’d heard this one first. Would I have had the reverse difficulty going the other direction? I must have, I think.
― liberal with a capital LIE (Hunt3r), Friday, 3 March 2023 04:23 (one year ago) link
richard hell in the new yorker:
Were you in touch with Verlaine before he died, recently?
No. I never recovered from what felt to me at the time like a total betrayal. Our relationship was really complex. We were so close, but it always makes me think of how I once got a postcard from Ted Berrigan advertising a reading he was doing with Ron Padgett, and on the postcard he said, “Ron and I hate each other as only best friends can.” And then, when that thing happened with that split, it just, it was final. When I would see him, I would invariably come away thinking, He just rubs me the wrong way. Even though he was my best friend, and in lots of ways we had more in common than anybody else in my life. Those are the most impressionable years; they’re when you’re forming, and, if you shared that experience with someone you’re with constantly, it’s eternal. It doesn’t go away. So I still have that feeling of brotherhood with him, even though I couldn’t stand being in his presence. But there was a funny thing that happened right after he died. There was this little book about graffiti at CBGB, and I wrote an introduction for it, and, within the first couple of days after Verlaine died, I’d be looking for references to what happened, and I came across this tweet, which the editor of the book who approached me to write the intro tweeted. When he was doing this book, he first approached Verlaine to write the intro, and Verlaine demurred, but said to him, “I can’t stand the guy, but you gotta get Richard Hell.” [Laughs.] And that gave me a really good feeling. Because it was the same for me, about him.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-interview/how-richard-hell-found-his-vocation
― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 16:51 (ten months ago) link
aw damn.
― serving aunt (stevie), Wednesday, 7 June 2023 17:03 (ten months ago) link
Excellent.
― CeeLô Borges (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 7 June 2023 17:04 (ten months ago) link
whole interview was great
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 17:08 (ten months ago) link
Thanks! Reminds me of this extended review re Hell's memoir-lit-literary sketchbook I Dreamed I Was a Very Clean Tramp, with the Kentucky boyo setting up Village camp in the 60s, soliciting and then rejecting a poem from Ginsberg for his zine and all, also for instance, way later but still pre-Neon Boys, I think?
Hell dates his "junkie mentality" to before he was actually using--to Theresa Stern, the hooker poet he and Verlaine invented and impersonated in their collaborative 1973 collection Wanna Go Out?
"I can’t imagine what it was like for Tom Verlaine and Richard Hell when they were getting started; to have a weird voice, and wanting to sing for a band in NYC, without the advantage of being able to just rip off Tom Verlaine or Richard Hell."https://zacharylipez.ghost.io/eight-unfinished-essays-on-marquee-moon/
― dow, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 17:32 (ten months ago) link
god i really relate to what hell says about verlaine
things are kind of like that with my ex, this sense of mutual betrayal. people i respect but on a personal level i never want to fucking talk to again.
Definitely. I think you get some relief. So why do you have to go pay somebody to sit there and listen to you do it? Most of what people are is chemical. It’s biological. Did you ever see [Michael Apted’s] “Seven Up!” movies? The seven-year-olds are still the same, even at seventy. You don’t change. You’re who you were at three.
...what? did _he_ see the up series? like art is subjective but how the _fuck_ did he get that from the films?
― Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 7 June 2023 17:38 (ten months ago) link
NYC booksellers band together to hold resale of Tom Verlaine's collection of 50,000 books
https://www.thelineofbestfit.com/news/nyc-booksellers-band-together-hold-resale-of-tom-verlaine-collection-of-books
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 24 August 2023 21:25 (eight months ago) link
There is another sale of his books going on (bigger space). Tomorrow, books go for five bucks. A few copies of the Theresa Stern zine (I think they were going for 25?) https://www.instagram.com/p/C0MwmeSOWqu/
― jbn, Saturday, 2 December 2023 22:28 (four months ago) link
probly most people reading this thread know, but just in case: tylerw's blog Doom And Gloom From The Tomb, on Tumblr and now Substack, has always been an excellent source of TV (and much other) info x soundz...
― dow, Sunday, 3 December 2023 02:03 (four months ago) link
Is there a list of his books (for sale or otherwise) posted somewhere? Currently having trouble seeing all of the Instagram post.
― dow, Sunday, 3 December 2023 02:06 (four months ago) link
Doubt there's a list. I went yesterday and there were large sections of fiction (especially poetry), occult/religion/spirituality, art, movies and music (which had a ton of books about using vacuum tubes in recording).
― jbn, Sunday, 3 December 2023 17:27 (four months ago) link
they've put some pricey ones on line.
https://www.betterreadthandeadbooks.com/searchResults.php?action=browse&category_id=365
they had a few 'theresa stern' originals on the table for $600 each. and other things like that.
― Thus Sang Freud, Sunday, 3 December 2023 18:21 (four months ago) link
There's a magazine special on the band out at the moment that I saw at the airport and now regret not buying. Uncut. May have been older but was in there on Wednesday maybe shelflife longer in an airport newsagent.
― Stevo, Sunday, 3 December 2023 19:19 (four months ago) link
That came out this year but I don’t think it reached U.S. newsstands until very recently. Still, I’d get one sooner than later just in case they didn’t stock many copies.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 3 December 2023 19:56 (four months ago) link
I wrote about Marquee Moon in the Uncut special! Came out in October I think?
― Piedie Gimbel, Sunday, 3 December 2023 20:57 (four months ago) link
I wrote about the band's live albums + bootlegs in the Uncut special! It is a cool mag, definitely grab it if you see it.
― tylerw, Sunday, 3 December 2023 21:12 (four months ago) link
How do you even wind up with 50,000 books! Lets assume he showed up in NYC in 72 or whatever with >10 books. He really bought 20 books a week, every week, for the rest of his life?
― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro), Sunday, 3 December 2023 22:54 (four months ago) link
He was at the Strand every single day, going through the dollar bins, so I can see that leading up to 50,000.
― birdistheword, Monday, 4 December 2023 07:47 (four months ago) link
How do you even wind up with 50,000 books!― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro)
― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro)
It gets away from you fast, trust me
Doubt there's a list. I went yesterday and there were large sections of fiction (especially poetry), occult/religion/spirituality, art, movies and music (which had a ton of books about using vacuum tubes in recording).― jbn, Sunday, December 3, 2023 11:27 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
― jbn, Sunday, December 3, 2023 11:27 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
Apparently lots of really weird, cheap-o UFO books as well
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 4 December 2023 14:35 (four months ago) link
i imagine verlaine bought a bunch of collections sight unseen, too – like those random ebay auctions that are like "12 boxes of books for $100" ... pretty funny, he must've at least entertained the idea of opening a bookstore at some point. tom would've been a great cranky dude behind the counter, glaring at your lame purchases.
― tylerw, Monday, 4 December 2023 15:25 (four months ago) link
Highlights:-Running into Sang Freud & Wife!!....-couple of books concerning da blooze.-Stockhausen interviews-book of jazz interviews (a gift!)-Photo/text book abt West Virginia traditional music -2 copies of the Bernie Kraus book/cd of his nature recordings/journals. (one will be a gift.)-A book about the history of Martin Guitars (also a gift)-Ellroy & Gibson 1st editions-Sidney Bechet "Treat It Gentle"-book of Raymond Chandler essays/interiews/miscellany.-book of essays about Ross MacDonald
some more stuff too.. from what I gather, yesterday was a lot mellower than Saturday.
You can see some of the items from the collection that have been listed on the BRTD website-https://www.betterreadthandeadbooks.com/searchResults.php?action=browse&category_id=365
― ian, Monday, 4 December 2023 17:19 (four months ago) link
great seeing you, ian!!
between the two of us we amassed 31 books, mostly from the literature section and some music stuff. i'll list some titles at some point.
― Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 5 December 2023 00:38 (four months ago) link
"1880 or so" is the best song ever written
"the fragrance sweetin the evening airi could leave this worldquite without a care"
― ꙮ (map), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:16 (three months ago) link
Definitely my favorite non-Marquee Moon Television song.
― grandavis, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 22:09 (three months ago) link