Public Enemy: Classic or Dud?

Sure as hell glad he said 'some' instead of 'all.'

Other random thoughts:

PE is probably the only overtly political music I ever listen to...I wonder why it goes down so easy?

Their time of prominence overlapped exactly with my time in college ('88 to '92), which has something to do with why I revere them so.

They mix terribly with other hip-hop; the production is just too busy, and the words too in your face. I rarely hear a DJ mix in a PE track. Maybe DJ Cockfarmer could pull it off??

What's the consensus on Yo! Bum Rush the Show? When Chuck wanted PE to sound like Run DMC?

That doesn't look like an out and out classic, but at ages 14-16 it seemed like they ruled the damn planet, and that's really close enough sometimes.

Of course "Everyone" doesn't - that was established on the earlier version of this thread. But it's true that most people won't say, or hear, a word against them.

Also, "Can't Truss It" seemed to blend pretty well into various early Cypress Hill tracks. Once again, note caveat above.

Nation of Millions has had enough said about it I cant add to it. Fear could do with 20 minutes ro so of the middle carved out. One or two lines not withstanding Welcome to the Terrordome may be the greatest rap song ever done.

Greatest Misses has its moments but the remixs seem to lead me to believe that PE was missing the boat on the current direction in rap, Air Hoodlum and Hazy Shade of Criminal (what was with all those takes on 80s pop song names?) both were wild.

Music and our mesage had one or two bright spots but was way behind in terms of sound, sounded like it was dated even the first time I heard it.

On my cassette it says "Executive Producers: The Bomb Squad" so they obviously had had a hand in it.

When will Bomb Squad-type production become retro? I wanna see a comeback of this sound. Broke out Apocalypse '91 recently and it's all coming back to me how good this group was.

Hahaha, at first I thought you meant you worked on telemarketing with MC Brains, who had that song that went, "Oochie coochie la la la/I am the Brains and I'm up to par".

btw, PE=Classic, obv. I even really like Yo! Bum Rush The Show - Suckers to the side/I know you hate/My 98/You're gonna get yours!

So was Slayer's "God Hates Us All"

its better than the sack of shit everyone thought it was in 1994, but its still pretty horrible.

God the jazzlike phrasing of Chuck... It's so true. He was every bit the equal of Miles and Wayne and Hank and people like that...

"Bang, here it is, in your face, god damn, this is a dope jam, but let's define the term named dope and you're thinking me funky now..."

haha, yeah, so great, and stew you forgot to include that "NOPE!" at the end of that quote

Thank you for your kind words Stormy.

In what possible way (aside from broadest generalities) is A Tribe Called Quest trying to do what PE does, for example?

There's ATCQ and there's the rest of rap. All the rest are pretenders.

Thank you.

That something = SONIC FURY. Did you ever hear Son of Bazerk?

dumb.

I love Public Enemy. Son of Bazerk is good too!

NWA had SONIC FURY...sometimes! Sonic fury isn't everything though....Special Ed didn't have Sonic Fury, but Youngest in Charge, whoo what a great album!

"Here we go again!"

"Turn it up!"

I went to the beach, the ground was all sandy

(upward shifting saxophone squeal from "The Grunt")

I just bought that JB's album this week! Boy was I surprised when that snippet came through my speakers.

I know! I always figured it was some kind of electronic gear abuse - a soundboard feeding back or some shit.

I went to the beach, the ground was all sandy

Actually, it's "I got to the beach, the ground was all sandy/Girlies on my jock like ants on candy." And so, so unfair that Flav's solo tracks (except for "911 Is A Joke") didn't make the best-of.

the lyric is genius. you can say just about anything, my mind will supply the punchline, and it will still sound good:

I got shot up, the ground was all sandy...
I went to mcdonald's, the ground was all sandy...
your mamma's a bitch, the ground was all sandy...

truly one of the all-time great rap images.

Seriously? No discussion anywhere of the new album?

How You Sell Soul To A Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul is possibly their worst album title, which is saying something.

Seriously. If they'd put out one single record with a good title in the last ten years, I'd get all excited and interested and buy it, instead of thinking "another insanely convoluted unfunny pun? oh Chuck." and avoiding.

I did buy the Make Love Fuck War single though.

1. "How You Sell Soul To A Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul"
2. "Black is Back"
3. "Harder Than You Think"
4. "Between Hard and a Rock Place"
5. "Sex, Drugs & Violence" (featuring KRS-One)
6. "Amerikan Gangster" (featuring E.Infinite)
7. "Can You Hear Me Now"
8. "Head Wide Shut"
9. "Flavor Man"
10. "The Enemy Battle Hymn of the Public"
11. "Escapism"
12. "Frankenstar"
13. "Col-Leepin"
14. "Radiation of a Radiotvmovie"
15. "See Something, Say Something"
16. "Long and Whining Road"
17. "Bridge of Pain"
18. "Eve of Destruction"
19. "How You Sell Soul (Time is God Refrain)"

generic titles

How You Sell Soul To A Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul is possibly their worst album title, which is saying something.

oh, chuck d-paws.

Classic or dud, Chuck D calling his band "Confrontation Camp?"

Great music, too bad about the fluffery of the racist, crackpot Nation of Islam

The best thing Chuck D ever did was Forthright MC.

have not heard this at all!!

I vote "Classic", of course.

"Fear Of A Black Planet" is the best Rap album I've ever heard. I essentially stopped buying Hip-Hop records after that came out, because ... well, what was the point? No one was ever going to top it.

FAKE

How You Sell Soul To A Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul is possibly their worst album title, which is saying something.

They will never top Muse Sick-N-Hour Mess Age, nor will anyone else.

It's bad, but it's not nearly as bad as Revolverlution, which is just stupid.

they were great last night.

god I'd love to see them.
my uncle told me he saw 'em back in like '86 or something in Minneapolis, one of only a few white people there. when the firt beat dropped the entire place jumped to it in unison and knocked the needle off the record. they had to stop and be like, "ummm, we're gonna don this again, and you can all dance, but don't every body jump at once alright?"

*"don this again"

I think they were the only black guys there last night. People were really into it, though, and they claimed they always love playing my town.

WAIT. What does this entire thread MEAN?
Are you going to throw away Public Enemy based on one or two debatably good or bad albums or what? I'm seriously confused. For sure they are classic and not 'everyone likes them' but if you're gonna say oh NWA or Public Enemy which is better, people'd be more likely to say Public Enemy. They may not be all that relevant any more but STILL.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/dangerouslife/jcole03.gif

who cares if their influence hasnt been that pronounced? they made some of the best rap records and were one of the best groups EVER - isnt that enough? people are unfairly cruel/cynical when it comes to PE, like theyre judging all their achievements through the prism of modern hip hop.

PE are heroes, a lot of PE boosters, not so much.

WAIT. What does this entire thread MEAN?
Are you going to throw away Public Enemy based on one or two debatably good or bad albums or what? I'm seriously confused. For sure they are classic and not 'everyone likes them' but if you're gonna say oh NWA or Public Enemy which is better, people'd be more likely to say Public Enemy. They may not be all that relevant any more but STILL.

-- VeronaInTheClub, Monday, 26 May 2008 18:11 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.stanford.edu/group/sfs/ssff/2007ssff/sockpuppet2.jpg

Not one of mine.

I entirely resent that picture...but why I'm not sure. I meant to say....Public Enemy are classic, they have been the platform for many, many a rap group and with good reason, they represented consistently and yes may not always have done so effortlessly but you could say that about a lot of classics from Wu Tang Clan to Common the fact remains that they are a seminal rap group and without them...
So why throw them away based on one or two albums? Definite keepers.

a lot of people seem to smirk about PE. its like 'hahaha those revolutionary guys'.

"Why do people always have to say theye were the greatest ROCK group or couch them in rock terminology? That really pisses me off."

ditto. although the second album was definitely produced in a more rocky way than the first one, which was much 'tighter' as far as how the beats were layered.

i'm shocked to learn that the pinefox has even heard public enemy.

Pretty fucking unreal live show, even in their mid-40s. Two thumbs way way up

They were amazing at Primavera - I was in tears, it was almost too much. Incomparable with other gigs, just...wow.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/02/AR2009120201455.html

correction

A Nov. 26 article in the District edition of Local Living incorrectly said a Public Enemy song declared 9/11 a joke. The song refers to 911, the emergency phone number.

LOL

fuck "Hazy Shade of Criminal" is so hot; you can hear something ending, it's true; but the mix is like when you hook a video camera to a television and shine the former into the latter: it sounds as deep as infinity, noises going down down down in shrinking focus, like you'd understand the significance of the song if you could just hear it a little closer

"The mistake made with P.E., though, is in seeing them as hip-hop perfected"

well yeah. pre-internet, (in the uk at least) nation was like the citizen kane of rap albums, the album most likely to come in at number one for best rap albums ever, or most likely to feature in best albums ever lists in rock mags (along with 3 feet high), which made it sort of daunting, but these days, with all the golden age coverage on the net that from what ive seen ranks others like rakim or krs more highly, pe seem almost underrated. obv not cool to see them as 'hip hop perfected' at the expense of everyone else, but they do kinda achieve a lot of if not all of hip hop (of that time at least)'s 'ideals', ie political but still funky, sampling pushed to the limits, etc etc.

There was a point (late 80s, early 90s) where I dismissed a lot of great hip hop for not being as ground-breaking/political/high bpms as Public Enemy. Got over that tho.

yeah, for a long time, well maybe until they started to fall off around 93/94, i think they WERE seen as hip hop perfected. which is understandable. though maybe more understandable if you were at least into other hip hop.

the "performing Fear Of A Black Planet in full" tour contains at least as many Nation Of Millions songs as Black Planet songs

Probably a better idea than a new Public Enemy album in 2011, admittedly.

that's a link, btw

I met Chuck D at CBGBs once. I told him I liked PE before Scott Ian told me to. I don't think he believed me though.

http://archivedmusicpress.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/public-enemy-live-at-the-brixton-academy-and-other-live-reviews-12th-december-1987.jpg

^grimey simey poopooing them in 87

There was a point (late 80s, early 90s) where I dismissed a lot of great hip hop for not being as ground-breaking/political/high bpms as Public Enemy. Got over that tho.

understand the consternation, but understandable. a lot of rockist-inspired guilt surrounding PE these days.

well yeah. pre-internet, (in the uk at least) nation was like the citizen kane of rap albums, the album most likely to come in at number one for best rap albums ever, or most likely to feature in best albums ever lists in rock mags (along with 3 feet high), which made it sort of daunting, but these days, with all the golden age coverage on the net that from what ive seen ranks others like rakim or krs more highly, pe seem almost underrated. obv not cool to see them as 'hip hop perfected' at the expense of everyone else, but they do kinda achieve a lot of if not all of hip hop (of that time at least)'s 'ideals', ie political but still funky, sampling pushed to the limits, etc etc.

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, January 24, 2011 5:54 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark

i don't know why everyone saying something is great is 'daunting' tbh!

nor do i remember people saying it did everything rap could ever do, just that it's fucking amazing.

at the same time, that's a very good review by reynolds. i *think* he'd written nice things about their recorded output before.

not really cool with his assumption about "arbitrarily assumed", just disregarding any idea abt why that might not be so, for instance being kings & queens of memphis and uruk is p first world and a legit counter to imposed low self-esteem

like not saying afrocentricity was the point, or doesn't cause headaches of its own but u know, u can investigate things beyond just assuming its arbitrary

also no idea what the shit abt wedding rings is, which is not good

my guess is that there was a tabloid furore around PE playing hammersmith (which is where the bit at the start of 'nation' comes from), and that PE said it was bullshit and the media lie, and that simey is saying, well yeah they do but i also witnessed some shitty behaviour [from PE fans, we are meant to infer -- potentially dodgy territory, though when i've been in that neck of the woods it's been p clear who is going to a gig and who isn't]

is it clear the type of rings ppl are stealing in the next traincar?

i guess some engagement/sovereign/______ rings could have got caught up too

that or simon reynolds '87 was just into lying about shit

i'm not sayin i'm just sayin [via sr]

First paragraph describes most hip hop shows for the past 25 years.

the "performing Fear Of A Black Planet in full" tour contains at least as many Nation Of Millions songs as Black Planet songs

I take this back: counting Contract On The World Love Jam as play-on music, they did nine out of the 20 songs on Fear, and only seven off Nation Of Millions. At least the latter included Cold Lampin' WIth Flavor, since he wasn't in the country in time for the actual Nation Of Millions In Full show two years ago.

um, that's not exactly "playing "Fear" in full is it, 9 out of 20...

yeah, my point

at least they didn't do Meet The G That Killed Me 3 or 4 times in a row like when I actually saw them on the Tour Of A Black Planet

(they did do it though)

ick (still like that album but damn that track is a dealbreaker)

What the fuck? Why are they even doing that song? I saw them in late 1990, and they didn't do it...but then, given the 90 minute delay after openers Sonic Youth, and the 40-minute Flav solo section in the middle (because Chuck had the flu), they didn't do much of anything.

apparently griff is holding a roundtable discussion tonight at the bar down the block from me

Did you go? Was there exciting news about the Illuminati and Jewish money power?

the new Mojo (brian jones cover) has a little oral history thing with Public Enemy, most of the interesting stuff is the very early days of the WBAU shows and the Spectrum City mobile DJ unit they were before they were a proper group...

aaanyway, not often you hear a genuinely new tidbit about a band like this, but Hank or Keith drops one in a quote in the article...in the early days, before Chuck had really evolved into the groups MC...he said that Eddie Murphy used to get onstage at their shows and do kinda jokes/rapping/MCing/etc!

CRAZY! :)

"Brothers Gonna Work It Out" ended up being my favorite single of theirs, kind of to my surprise because I was such a "Bring The Noise"/"Fight The Power" head

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/public-enemys-private-photographer/

^^ The RUN-DMC pic in that set is nuts. I'd like to hear an album from them in those clothes.

PE = classic.

Are people buying and digesting the albums they make now? I always wonder.

Fassfood is a lot of fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0eOkWEAheE

I have never seen an authoritative account of what happened to the Bomb Squad and why they basically stopped working around '94. For such a groundbreaking production crew, this has always befuddled me.

BOOM, BASS IN YOUR FACE:
Here is that Chuck D & Hank Shocklee Interview

also I think you can still find the Tape Op interview with Shocklee mentioned in there for free, all you have to do is reg for the site. It's pretty eye opening.

I knew that the legalities of sampling probably had something to do with it, but I always suspected there must have been some personal stuff going on as well...? There are plenty of producers who kept working as styles shifted, just seems weird to me that they basically gave up.

https://twitter.com/MrChuckD/status/495741143918071809/photo/1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuE58ZfIIAA025Q.jpg

Not so corny anymore huh?

Wow, I just saw that on display at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Monday.

Hearing whispers of a secret (short) gig at Rough Trade East tomorrow at 6:30

weird & cool: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/329701271.html

That's insane!

Time for me to exit, Terminator Brex-it.

KEXP in Seattle is playing every (discernible) recording sampled on Nation of Millions right now:

https://www.kexp.org/

That album is at least 80% the soundtrack to Wattstax don't @ me

rebel without @ pause

death row, what @ brother know

I watched this BBC documentary yesterday : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMCvWeWnsJw
It's pretty cool and reminded me how much I loved that band when I was a teenager (the release of "Fear Of A Black Planet" remains one of the great musical moments in my life !).
I had never thought about the fact that they never went the "bitches, Hos, bling" route and watching Griff talking about their project, it appears obvious.
Also the Griff/Flav relationship was pretty wild and you wonder how they managed to make it work for such a long time...

Is there a good book about them ?

I’ve read two books and neither came close to the Wax Poetics cover story (#17, 2006) on the Bomb Squad

Thanks, I will check it out !

The Whiney book about Nation is good.

Yeah, I have just ordered it !

"Fear of a Black Planet" still rules - relistening right now. I'm not gonna pretend it fully sustains for its hour-plus, but tracks 1-5 remain one of the most thrillingly paced/sequenced runs on any record, and track for track it keeps up the pace at least through the title track.

Talk to me about the future of Public Enemy


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/public-enemy-flavor-flav-bernie-sanders-960272/

I'm kind of bummed about this. Like of course Flavor Flav has some weird ass political views that don't line up with the rest of the group. You have to let him be who he is.

future of Public Enemy Radio got a

He's left/been fired/not bothered to turn up before, he'll be back

"Like of course Flavor Flav has some weird ass political views that don't line up with the rest of the group."

Chuck D's remarks suggest this doesn't have anything to do with Flavor Flav's political zeal, but rather lack thereof.

I suppose after all this time and his many antics, they're pretty used to handle him...
He'll be back after the elections !

Also that Flav’s substance abuse has once again made him a difficult employee.

xpost

I think Mario’s post “Flavor Flav has some weird ass political views that don't line up with the rest of the group” must have been confusing Flavor Flav with Professor Griff.

nah, he said a bunch of pro-Trump nonsense during the 2016 campaign. but it's from being an a) apolitical b) idiot, not ideology.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89254744_555480721988677_325032658125979648_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=vK9C_rPzHZQAX-58sML&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=f7edf2f55c3c3e3e233fe9731c0fdba7&oe=5EFB08C4

I'll throw my support behind "Muse-Sick-In-Our-Mess-Age" too. It's no groundbreaking landmark, but I have to disagree with anyone putting down the fine and funky production. It's like a B+ album.

I always have a soft spot for Muse-Sick, it came out right as I was starting my freshman year in college and it was one of the few cassettes I had with me for the first few months before I upgraded to a Discman.

hahaha xxp

Muse Sick's probably my third favourite after Nation and Black Planet.

lmao hate to see politics ruin Public Enemy

ppl underrate Yo! Bum Rush the Show

yeah I ignored it for years

otoh this bangs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYblg4i2HD8

head and shoulders above the album though, one of their all-time greatest

nb Bum Rush is good

Muse Sick over Bum Rush and Apocalypse 91 is a pretty good challop

I only listened to Muse Sick maybe once when it came out, and my reaction was that it was such a weak follow-up to Apocalypse 91 (which I love/loved). Wasn't there a big deal made that it cut down on the number of samples and introduced more instruments?

Nation of Millions > Fear >>> Bum Rush >>> Apocalypse 91 >>> Greatest Misses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muse Sick > ...those guys are still around? Oof.

That seems right but I’d flip Apocalypse 91 w/ Bum Rush

i would flip fear and nation but yeah pretty otm

He Got Game is ok

I haven't listened to "He Got Game" in a while but yeah, not bad at all. It sounded like PE becoming comfortable with getting old (or at least settling into their role as the wise elders of rap). They even threw in a warbly Stephen Stills for crissakes.

Working with Stephen Stills was enough of an aesthetic crime to almost justify retroactive cancellation of their entire body of work. Had it been David Crosby, irrevocable perma-cancellation, zero possibility of parole.

Had it been Neil Young it woulda been dope

Like I'm sad we didn't get our "Keep on Rappin in the Free World"

Stephen Still's Manassas has some ill jawns

Muse Sick over Bum Rush and Apocalypse 91 is a pretty good challop

it the only op i got

I’ve probably listened to “Give It Up” more than any other single PE track

"Hazy Shade of Criminal" is top shelf PE, I rate it as high as Nations.

I shall listen to it again!

Wasn't there a big deal made that it cut down on the number of samples and introduced more instruments?

Apocalypse '91 was actually the turning point (a downturn afaic) in the Bomb Squad's production:

According to Hank Shocklee, around this time, the disks for every track they had been working on for the past four to five years had been stolen. As a result, they had to rush to re-create their music and to put out their album in a timely manner. Shocklee admitted that it was impossible to completely recover what they had lost, saying "once you lose all your data, it's very difficult to get that data back...you may get some of it back, but you'll never get the complete set. You won't even know what the complete set is, because there's data in there you didn't really know you had." In retrospect, he believed the loss "stunted [Public Enemy's] growth. We never really recovered after that. We was on a roll—I was on a roll, and to lose that material set me back so hard." As a result, the sound was a little leaner than the dense production of their previous albums, and live musicians became a prominent element as well.

By '94 and Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age they sounded like most every other rap act that was using 8-bar drum loops and single-source samples.

and like, those albums aren't bad, but they are a pale imitation of the hyperactive density of the first three

CSN&Y was worthless without Neil Young, Stills and Crosby's solo careers were awful, but the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield were truly great bands, and "For What It's Worth" was Stills's song, so that work has my eternal respect.

Re: the lost disks, I heard that story too. It's heartbreaking, but at the same time, I don't want to exaggerate the negative impact it may have had on PE's work. I actually like the production on "Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age," but for me the lyrics and delivery really made it a lesser PE album.

hmmm arguing about Stephen Stills in the Public Enemy thread would be extremely on brand for me but I'm going to resist

Re : the lost disks, wasn't it also a case of the legal context having changed and samples being much more complicated/expensive to use ?

I don't recall them getting sued specifically, but yeah after the De La and Biz Markie cases their sampling style became legally and financially problematic

Re: legal context, I've also wondered that myself. A lot of the legal obstacles against sampling were already falling into place, so I'm not even sure if those lost beats could've been used without complication.

BUT look at Beck's masterpiece "Odelay," which came out in 1996 - to be fair, they did have to remove a handful of samples, but the dense production is still astounding.

by "Odelay" Beck was sampling himself/his band as much as other sources. There's some really prominent record samples but also a lot of live instrumentation.

yeah but like clearing Van Morrison for ex. could not have been cheap

though i guess the label was probably (correctly) better that after loser this could be his big blockbuster album and might have been more likely to pony up

yup

by "Odelay" Beck was sampling himself/his band as much as other sources. There's some really prominent record samples but also a lot of live instrumentation.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, March 3, 2020 8:50 AM (forty-four minutes ago)

That record was almost all Dust Brothers, they have writing credits on all but 2 songs ("Lord Only Knows" & "Minus")

(...on top of the production & mixing credits)

I know that, that doesn't mean it's composed of record samples

"Devil's Haircut" contains a sample from "Out Of Sight" (James Brown) published by Fort Knox Music BMI, performed by Them, courtesy of the Decca Record Co.; a sample from "Soul Drums" (Bernard Purdie) published by Tenryk Music BMI, performed by Pretty Purdie, courtesy of Sony Music; and elements from "I Can Only Give You Everything" (Philip Coulter/Thomas Scott) published by Carbert Music ASCAP.

"Hotwax" contains a sample from "Song For Aretha" (Bernard Purdie/Horace Ott/Robert Thiele) published by Tenryk Music/Well Made Music BMI, performed by Pretty Purdie; and a sample from "Up On The Hill" (Monk Higgins/Alexandra Brown) published by Special Agent Co./Tippy Music Publishing ASCAP, performed by Monk Higgins & The Specialties, courtesy of Blue Note Records, a division of Capitol Records, Inc.

"Lord Only Knows" contains elements from "Lookout For Lucy" (Mike Millius/Don Thomas) published by by Southern Music Publishing Company, Inc. ASCAP performed by Mike Millius, courtesy of MCA Records, Inc.

"The New Pollution" contains a sample from "Venus" (Brad Baker) published by Sonny Lester Music Publishing Co. ASCAP, performed by Joe Thomas, courtesy of LAC Ltd.

"Jack-ass" contains a sample from "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" (Bob Dylan) published by Special Rider Music SESAC, performed by Them, courtesy of Decca Record Co. Licensed from Exile Productions Limited.

"Where It's At" contains a sample from "Needle To The Groove" (Embden Toure/Khaleel Kirk) published by Hit And Hold Music, Inc. ASCAP, performed by Mantronix, courtesy of Warlock Records.

"Sissyneck" contains elements from "The Moog And Me" (Dick Hyman) published by Eastlake Music, Inc. ASCAP, performed by Dick Hyman, courtesy of MCA Records, Inc. and elements from "A Part Of Me" (Paris/Taylor) published by Zethus Music, administered by Chappell & Co., Inc. ASCAP. All Rights Reserved. Used by permission.

"Readymade" contains excerpts from "Desafinado" (Antonio Carlos Jobim/Newton Mendonca) published by Bendig Music/Carcovado Corp. BMI, performed by Laurindo Almeida And The Bossa Nova All Stars, courtesy of Blue Note Records, a division of Capitol Records, Inc.

"High 5 (Rock The Catskills)" contains elements from "Mr. Cool" (Vincent Willis) published by Cotillion Music Inc./NAP Publishing Co./ Sylheart Publishing Co., administered by Warner Tamerlane Publishing Co., Inc. BMI performed by Rasputin's Stash, courtesy of Atlantic Recording Corp., by arrangement with Warner Special Products, Inc.

(I thought you were familiar with the Dust Brothers, that's basically their entire MO)

https://www.musictech.net/guides/essential-guide/landmark-productions-beck-odelay/

tons and tons of instrumentation

I mean, that's what makes it interesting tbh - it's not a repeat of Paul's Boutique, it's way more of a mishmash of different approaches and techniques.

like, Lord Only Knows is not just an 8-bar loop of Lookout For Lucy, in fact the recorded sample is just the first few seconds of the song - the rest is studio-recorded stuff.

who are you arguing with?

who can keep track any more

By '94 and Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age they sounded like most every other rap act that was using 8-bar drum loops and single-source samples.

also Apocalypse 91 is not produced by The Bomb Squad, and the "Bomb Squad Production" credited with half of Muse Sick is aiui completely different people to the Bomb Squad that made the first three PE albums, just Hank popping in and giving a thumbs up or thumbs down to some apprentices occasionally

hmm looks like four tracks are probably Hank productions recovered from the supposedly lost disks, eight are actively credited to other people with Hank's imprimatur, seven produced by ex-members of The Bomb Squad, and a Flav track by one of Hank's apprentices who'd previously done half of Griff's solo album.

PR BTW:

"Flavor Flav has been on suspension since 2016 when he was MIA from the Harry Belafonte benefit in Atlanta, Georgia. That was the last straw for the group. He had previously missed numerous live gigs from Glastonbury to Canada, album recording sessions and photo shoots. He always chose to party over work.

"Public Enemy Radio toured Europe and co-headlined with the Wu-Tang Clan in May 2019 without Flavor. They have also done numerous benefit shows without Flavor. While Public Enemy Radio was moving forward, Flavor Flav was starring on the reality show "Growing up Hip Hop New York,” where an episode featured his children discussing an intervention and putting him into rehab. It’s time to move on and everyone wishes Flavor well."

the supposedly lost disks

are you saying they weren't lost? idgi

yah I've always been dubious about how much of that story is true, given the fact the Bomb Squad had already split up at that point, and that Hank has barely done anything at all since. whether the dog ate his homework or not, I think it's really unlikely that he actually had albumsworth of backing tracks stockpiled.

I can see that. Shocklee clearly a guy that burned out (and got burned, I suppose)

Been revisiting their later albums today. "He Got Game" sounds pretty naked, maybe the leanest production of any PE album by a good margin, but I dig it. Lyrical focus brought on by Spike's film may have helped. Clumsy title aside, 2007's "How You Sell Soul to a Soulless People Who Sold Their Soul?" is actually really good, better than I remembered - I think Gary G-Wiz of the Bomb Squad handles most of the production.

after the first 3 record titles, which are all classic, PE album names become v bad

for reference :)

worst Public Enemy album title

Sweet Jesus, I forgot about "New Whirl Odor." That's as unfortunate as "Puke-a-hantas".

Next one'll be some nonsense political spoonerism like Allah, a Biden Sit is In

I remember there being lots of tension circa Muse Sick also, that Def Jam were pressurising PE to drop their tempos to fit with the west coast sound of the day. There was a Chuck D interview with Melody Maker the week before their Phoenix appearance that was all about that.

https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Library/Article/public-enemy-the-greatest-rap-band-in-the-world-ever

Xxxxxp wouldn’t these lost disks have resurfaced/been bootlegged by now?

Either that or some fledgling producer released an amazing album of beats then mysteriously stopped recording

my mom stole them and recorded PBS's I Claudius over them

Anyone know which album sessions produced which outtake on that first side of"Greatest Misses"?

??? they're all new recordings

Tracks 1-6 were supposed to be "previously unreleased outtakes."

when?

on wikipedia

Why?

who?

...Stole the Soul? (Sir Jinx Stolen Souled Out Reparation Mixx)

on wikipedia

oldest version 22 June 2006

Categories: Public Emeny albums / Greatest hits albums

Revision on Revision as of 19:34, 17 October 2018 changed "It features new tracks (1-6)," to "It included previously unreleased outtakes (1-6)"

Washington Post, 1994:

PE's 1992 "Greatest Misses" echoed 1973's "Dylan," a collection of marginal outtakes and leftovers that belonged on a bonus disc, not a bona fide one.

not saying that's right or wrong, but that info clearly predates 2018

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1994/08/24/public-enemy-classic-rap/f6dae98c-97c2-4ba3-a9e3-3773fc8904a7/

LA Times, 1994:

Public Enemy first stumbled with its 1992 album of outtakes, “Greatest Misses.”

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-08-19-ca-29095-story.html

my recollection is that it was promoted as six new tracks, six (mostly new) remixes (plus the Word performance) but obv that is inadmissable as evidence

the printed credits on the 1992 release Greatest Misses, however, indicate that they can't be outtakes from anything older than 1991 release Apocalypse '91, so I refer the honorable member to my earlier ???

"Apocalypse '91" outtakes seems reasonable I guess?

but yeah, ???

FWIW, Erlewine's AllMusic review simply refers to them as "new songs" / "new material"...

Also, if it's a helpful piece of the puzzle, Discogs.com user "tiddlerz" remarks -- "this is being filed under a comp but its fucking banging and essential as any PE album in my opinion."

I'll say this for How Do You Sell Soul..., the single "Harder than you Think" is an essential PE jam for me

tie goes to the runner rules

“Harder Than You Think” is so good

There’s a lot of great stuff on There’s a Poison Going On too, which people miss because it’s like their fourth slept-on release in a row at that point

I love this beat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=62nCe2a1zsc

There’s A Poison sounds like it was recorded on styrofoam

GREAT track, but I was surprised to find that "Harder Than You Think" hit #4 on the UK singles chart, which makes it PE's highest charting single there. (And it did it five years after it was released.)

^ when it was used as the theme to Paralympics coverage on UK television

Still going through late era PE. I would add 2012's "Most of My Heroes Still Don't Appear on No Stamp" as another keeper - Chuck's physically sounding a bit older, but he still has a commanding authority. 2002's "Revolverlution" is a mixed bag by design, but throw out the four fan remixes and the live cuts weighing it down and it's probably another keeper. I'm going to miss Flav's levity and absurdity on these records, and he's still an underrated multi-instrumentalist.

Turns out, Flavor Flav's firing was an elaborate hoax to promote a new album, LOUD IS NOT ENOUGH, that was dropping on April Fools' Day (today).

Posted yesterday on March 31: https://www.enemyradio.net/news/a-hoax-that-aint-no-joke

More here: https://pitchfork.com/news/chuck-d-says-flavor-flavs-public-enemy-firing-was-staged-to-promote-new-song-and-album/

🙄

um.

I had watched Orson Welles’ ‘War Of The Worlds’ from 1938 when he pulled the wool over the public’s eyes as they put 100% belief in the technology of radio. Most people followed like a Pavlovic dog just like they do now.

"I believed a fictional press release about people being unable to tell fiction from news, so I made up some fiction and pretended it was news, and then put out a press release about it, to prove that people are as stupid as me ermm, everyone else but me."

I’m not sayin’ it’s a hoax, I’m sayin’ that the original intention is to get your attention and not play attention, but get you to pay attention.”

idk Carlton man, this is a little too coherent. can I suggest How You Pay Attention To An Attentionless People Who Ain't Play Attention? Get Talkin' To Get 'Em Torqued Up With Intentional Tension

even viewed through the most charitable lens, this is phenomenally bad timing

Oh dear

sic lol

is chuck advising that we... don’t believe the hype

This is the funniest fucking thing, rivaled only by the title of one of the songs on the album being "STD (Slavery Transmitted Disease)"

Wait, all the reasons they gave for firing Flav were tru tho

I mean I'm glad tho

I feel like this album release could itself be an April Fool's prank inasmuch as it's a latter day Public Enemy album whose title somehow fails to read like it was whipped up by a gaggle of college freshmen getting super high in their dorm room.

Luau Dis Naughty 'Nuff, surely.

it's so sad to see this band that were just absolute titans reduced to this

it's a latter day Public Enemy album

It’s an “Enemy Radio” album, there’s a loophole there...

Also, not to fact-check Chuck D, but he may be off-bass* on the subject of public credulity around the War of the Worlds broadcast.

*my phone made this typo and I’m gonna keep it, seems appropriate here

idk Carlton man, this is a little too coherent. can I suggest How You Pay Attention To An Attentionless People Who Ain't Play Attention? Get Talkin' To Get 'Em Torqued Up With Intentional Tension

fuck lol

can we please just turn this into a thread of speculative future Public Enemy album titles

How Much Flav Would a Chuck D. Chuck If a Chuck D. Would Chuck Flav?

never mind

lol

haaaaa

Wait, wait, wait ... how do we know that the reveal that it was supposedly all a satirical social media prank is itself *not* the satirical social media prank, and that Flav *was* fired and this is all a ruse to trick us into thinking he *wasn't* fired and is still in the group!?!!"!

This is like the opposite of a deepfake.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a retcon on Chuck's part... the "prank" claim doesn't make a lot of sense, in light of the timing, how it played out, etc.

I don't believe a word of it

History shouldn't be a mystery.

lol creative cover Chuck just take LL's artwork and photoshop Enemy Radio on it

Chuck D was interviewed by HipHopDX beforehand and it's a much better read than the official statement. Chuck actually makes a lot of good points, and at least the prank makes more sense in the context given here.

https://hiphopdx.com/news/id.55227/title.public-enemys-chuck-d-flavor-flav-blast-april-fools-day

People would take it serious, but I’m saying, ‘No, I’m attacking the fact y’all were gullible and fell for it.”

Also, people were insisting the very thing that Chuck is affirming now — namely, that you can’t “fire” Flav from PE, as he’s a core partner. They were saying that to Chuck and Flav on Twitter! And now Chuck’s like, “Yeah, I played you guys...”(?)

I'm interested in seeing how everyone reacts after looking back at the "finally Chuck saw how much of a coon Flavor Flav was" rhetoric swirling around after the original announcement

so does flav LIKE bernie
circle one: y/n/maybe

Chuck is so full of shit right now

xp According to Chuck in that interview, Flav was legitimately pissed off and the C&D letter was real.

even viewed through the most charitable lens, this is phenomenally bad timing

― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, April 1, 2020 6:24 AM (eleven hours ago)

tbh i kinda really appreciate the sheer ridiculousness of this story right now

lol creative cover Chuck just take LL's artwork and photoshop Enemy Radio on it

lock

oops

lock them up

i like the Enemy Radio logo

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5e7aba61b2e1486cd44199dd/1585631399399-68KUMYMA7P2QPFLA5T7R/Asset+17.png?content-type=image%2Fpng

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5e7aba61b2e1486cd44199dd/1585631399399-68KUMYMA7P2QPFLA5T7R/Asset+17.png

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5e7aba61b2e1486cd44199dd/1585631399399-68KUMYMA7P2QPFLA5T7R/Asset+17.png

no shit sic

(it's not the same box as on LL's album, let alone the artwork)

a lot of the beats on this are p nice

The opening remarks in that interview are spot-on, and it's not new - exhibit A in the film world is Orson Welles and how the business and (at the time) mainstream critics treated him like garbage even when he struggled and managed to put out one great film after another:

“Going into 2020, this is the second decade where Hip Hop has skidded away to the point where the good look is never, ever considered and the bad look keeps getting elevated to the point where it’s just disrespectful,” he tells DX. “I had to figure out, ‘What is the teachable moment for me?’

“I think Jadakiss talked about it in his Ignatius album — it’s like, we can’t have dead rappers be the news that comes out that elevates them to the top. When does the good look get a look? When I saw Common do his performance at the NBA All-Star Weekend, I thought it was the greatest performance I’d ever seen a Hip Hop artist do on TV — and no one said anything.”

He continues, “The final straw for me was the young man Pop Smoke being murdered, and all of a sudden he becomes a name. It was reminiscent of the year before with Nipsy Hussle, somebody who I played and supported on our RAPstation networks. A few people knew his name but then he gets murdered and of all a sudden it’s this ground swell. The blogs, platforms and all Hip Hop media, I felt they were heavily negligent and started to hover like buzzards waiting for the worst thing to happen.”

Nipsy Hussle, somebody who I played and supported on our RAPstation networks. A few people knew his name but then he gets murdered and of all a sudden it’s this ground swell

feel like this is nagl for chuck

Now Flav's saying he was not part of the "hoax." I give up.

great tweet, imo

I am not a part of your hoax .@mrchuckd,,,there are more serious things in the world right now than April Fool's jokes and dropping records,,,the world needs better than this,,,you say we are leaders so act like one,,,donate to those in need here: https://t.co/7hioasSwuV

— FLAVOR FLAV (@FlavorFlav) April 1, 2020

oof

Chuck just got murked with that one

Tomorrow he'll say his denial was another april fool.

But Chuck will say his april fool was the april fool

But Chuck will be in coma from that exploding can Flav left in his fridge.

it's just part of long-game prank feud to promote 2024 album

"Gaming the Game Long Game Gains"

Nipsy Hussle, somebody who I played and supported on our RAPstation networks. A few people knew his name but then he gets murdered and of all a sudden it’s this ground swell

feel like this is nagl for chuck

― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Wednesday, April 1, 2020 3:40 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Its absolutely undeniable that outlets were not covering Nipsey in a way that matched his reach.

I'll leave coverage of Brooklyn drill opinions to D-40 tho

New PE - I guess Chuck D and Flav ultimately made up, but regardless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQvDRe79F8k&list=RDOQvDRe79F8k&start_radio=1&fbclid=IwAR3qH8BtdzYgNi2up7hfcVCVKzX71nkA6sibSKr2sWEENId_iOOMq2ohjDE

Apologies, try this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQvDRe79F8k

Highly enjoyable.

The chorus feels more like Ice-T than Public Enemy. Good track, though - better than I expected from them at this point.

Exactly. We'll miss them when they're gone for good.

I do like how Chuck's gruff older man voice brings to mind all these MCs that have been gruff from the start, like, I dunno, Method Man or El-P or all sorts.

https://americansongwriter.com/chuck-d-breaks-down-state-of-the-union-stfu-songwriting-and-public-enemys-upcoming-flavor-flav-produced-album

well earned victory lap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNUl8bAKdi4

lots of stuff re the new album being their first new album in years.
i guess 'nothing is quick in the desert' that was released in 2017 doesn't count then ?

holy shit

2017 was years ago tbf

[citation needed]

oh god i want ?uestlove's Sade tee

This made me look up this remix, a guy I went to college did it when he was also in school and it made their album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEhj4hbOskc

His electronic music was so sick, but now he only makes contemporary classical/experimental stuff and electro-country.

https://www.vulture.com/2020/09/chuck-d-interview-public-enemy-when-the-grid-goes-down.html

some semi-coherent quotes in this interview with Chuck but this one was simply to the point.

The fact that this guy, Donald Trump, who’s been philandering a half-assed celebrity joke for the last 45 to 50 years in New York City, the fact that he has that power is a disgrace to the planet Earth. He’s not equipped to govern millions of people or thousands of people. He’s not equipped to govern 100 people. Get the fuck up outta there. He shouldn’t even be there. The fact that he pulled a three-card-monte job on the United States of America isn’t just a reflection on him. It’s a reflection of the comfort zone a lot of Americans feel. They’re telling you your life don’t matter. Black lives don’t matter. Women don’t matter. You can go through a lot of the doctrine of the United States of America and see where it’s been shown and proven that certain people don’t matter. On top of that, you have authority that basically says they don’t care.

new album getting some good reviews but didn't do much for me

Chuck's taste in beats has really declined

The fact that this guy, Donald Trump

Why do people do this, idgi. “Ohh, THAT guy!”

All the living members of Beastie Boys and Run DMC appear on a lockdown-recorded new version of Public Enemy #1

It's not that special. Just another later period pe mixtape/album. But with lots of guests.

The PE#1 is alright but, yeah, nothing special.
I loved PE in their heyday but now it's like caring about a new rolling stones albums.

When did chuck d become such a wooly speaker?

He also sounds bored on the very first song of the new album. Just going through the motions. And every verse on fight the power 2020 seems to have been cut in a different studio.

It was done for the BET Awards so everyone was remote

Though even without the pandemic I think it's more the exception than the rule that guest verses are done in the same studio

Sure, but it really sounds like it!

I saw PE at a Bernie rally last year and Chuck was just over the map w/ his banter, more than I ever remember him being...maybe abt half (?) of it held together, that ^excerpt seems relatively coherent by comparison

Xpost - the most jarring was the Beastie Boys on the PE#1 remake - I swear they recorded that on their iPhone

If neither of them plan to record again, it makes sense that they don't have home vocal studios

though Adrock's partner might have a microphone around at least

yeah I mean a Blue Yeti would do

Xpost - the most jarring was the Beastie Boys on the PE#1 remake - I swear they recorded that on their iPhone