defend the indefensible: Hall and Oates

Two guys on a reunion tour.

"blowing my bliss"

Moustache-less John Oates is like Kiss without make-up -- yeah, I know it's done, but 'tain't the same.

I missed the earlier seventies hits when growing up, so I only got to hear them in retrospect -- but both songs are indeed mighty fine, the latter is if I remember a tribute to the underrated Sara Allen, who collaborated with them both on many songs and who passed away some years back (or so I thought, but I keep reading it was her sister and fellow H/O collaborator Janna Allen?).

"I Can't Go For That" is infectious and magical.

Uh, someone DID mention De La Soul by now, yeah?

By the way, am I allowed to praise Daryl Hall?

i have taken to pressing pause when the 'where does it stop - ' line drops - FEAR ME

yep, i have copied it on more than one occasion! (not live tho)

Sorry, I just really don't like the concept of this thread.

There has to be a thread somewhere about the two breezeblock sets that The Avalanches did. They weren't consistent throughout in quality, but they really did have some moments of genius that I find myself skipping to.

anyone remember the Hall & Oates as council workers (or something) sketches on Big Train?

and their mullets.

Also, I think one of the main problems that people have with H&O (besides John's mustache, already covered here) is G.E. Smith. His dumb mug was all over those videos...

Me, I'm fairly indifferent to H&O. "Sara Smile" I remember as pretty great, tho I've not heard it in 20+ years! "Kiss On My List" and "You Make My Dreams" are probably my favourites. I don't think I can ever again stomach "I Can't Go For That", just 'cause I'm sick to fucking death of that goddamn Simply Red song that I'm forced to endure at the office at least twice a week. (I hate it.)(I hate Simply Red!) But I never cared much for it originally anyways - partly because the phrase "No can do" always infuriated me! (Dunno why.)

Two unanswerable questions: 1. How is it that I've never heard "Family Man" despite remembering all their other early '80s hits? And 2. When and why did they add the "Daryl" and "John" to their bandname? Egotism? A silly decision if you ask me: "Hall And Oates" rolls off the tongue so much more easily. (But at least "Daryl Hall And John Oates" is still much better [in every way] than "England Dan and John Ford Coley"!)

My last job at a coffee shop piped in that cable radio stuff, which is hit and miss at best. One day "She's Gone" came on, and I started singing along as I made coffee. So did my co-worker Andre. "You like this?" I asked him. He said, "Lemme tell you a secret. Black people like Hall and Oates." I had no idea.

'Private Eyes' is my favourite H&O song.

i asked him whether he and john were into drugs during the height of their fame. he replied, "just look at our clothes, at our shoulderpads."

DANCE ON YOUR KNEES!

I was going to say I never actually bought any Hall & Oates records but still enjoyed and enjoy them enough on the radio, when I realize I think there is one 45 I bought and I do think it might be "Adult Education". Can't remember how it goes, though. Was that the one where they're on a roof in the video?

Yes they were great in their own way, glad to see people cheer them here.

I wonder if we had a shoot-em-out "blue-eyed soul" cowboy duel here on ILM between Todd Rundgren and Hall & Oates who would come out on top? Well perhaps there's been a taking sides thread and I only need search for it...

I supremely worship Todd but I always feel like I have to explain to people how great his vocals are, whereas Darryl is kind of a more "traditional" sort of vocalist.

That is all.

And, you know, you don't have to take sides between H&O and Rundgren, because War Babies is both of them -- it's produced by Rundgren, and he plays lead guitar on the entire album.

I love the weird vocoder/warped guitar sounds of their cover of "family man". also those giant keith leblanc drums on the remix of "out of touch". and the sound production on "i can't go for that" made this the only 80s song that sounded BETTER on AM radio than FM radio.

don't forget g.e. smith! oh, why did you fall so low and become the driving force behind making us all hate the SNL band, G.e... why why why?

WTF??? "Family Man" was a cover???

This song never gets as much love as "I Can Go For That."

Which is funny in that he didn't write the song. (It was the dudes who wrote "Like a Virgin" for Madonna a couple of years later.)

Never owned that album but "Dreamtime" was as close as Dave Stewart got (along with "Don't Come Around Here No More" for Tom Petty) for trying to make pop/psych that got on the radio via production. But Prince was doing far better on that front overall.

"out of touch" is brilliant ."everytime you go away" is clasic,"everything your heart desires" was the comeback song .

Abandoned Luncheonette is one of the most underrated albums ever made. well, actually, the second half does fall apart some (trying waaaay too hard to be "deep" and shit, though "Laughing Boy" does have a nice tune and "Lady Rain" pulls it off), but side one is DYNAMITE. "When the Morning Comes" = some of the coolest, most understated Moog action evah + beyond-perfect "whoo" harmonies + wonderful folk acoustic strum + marvelous bridge, esp. Daryl's high notes. "Had I Know You Better Then" = gorgeous mumbly Oates vocal + that piercing little guitar punctuating the chorus + sudden drama in final chorus-buildup/breakdown, John cool and understated against Hall's urgency and then dissolving back into the rippling harmonies. "Las Vegas Turnaround" = the greatest Belle & Sebastian song ever written (I stole this comparison, though not the rating, from Douglas Wolk), the ricky-tick drums and jazzy guitars/electric keybs are like a more humane early Steely Dan. "She's Gone" = a monument, one of the records I beat myself up about for not including on my top-100-singles-of-the-'70s list, the first 45 seconds are the greatest thing I've ever heard to listen to while stoned out of your gourd, totally widescreen cinematic verse-to-chorus transitions, the breakdown w/the bass solo and guitar stuff and horns and the sudden stop is one of the most honestly dramatic pieces of music I know. I played it obsessively all of 2004 and want to do so again right now. "I'm Just a Kid (Don't Make Me Feel Like a Man)" = tentative and folky and oversensitive but fuck it, after those first four they've earned it. everything else they did was, is, gravy.

the sudden stop is one of the most honestly dramatic pieces of music I know

Easily.

Recently, I'm thinking "Your Imagination" = best H&O song. Except it's really still "I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)"

Amen. You've discovered the Holy Grail, my son. I can write pages about that song. Luvluvluv the organ.

This actually might be one of their most underrated songs. "I Don't Wanna Lose You" as well (he says, while listening to same).

But so superior.

And don't get me started on "We are the World"

also, they are from philly. i live in philly. therefore, they're awesome.

been listening to Sacred Songs again lately in lite of the Exposure reissue, the stretch from babs and babs-urban landscape-nycny-the father away I am is pretty awesome.

I also have a known weakness for ELO.

Hahah, all too true. :-) "Dreamtime" is mighty great. I haven't heard the album in years upon years -- had it on vinyl and somewhere in the late eighties I let it go...

I don't get these guys at all

#@!@#!$!@#!@#$!@$!@#$!#

> H20, although with the exceptions of "Open All Night" and "Family Man" (the latter of which they didn't write) it's got no single song as awesome as "Your Imagination" or "I Can Go For That." <

What about "One On One" or "Maneater"? Maybe even "Italian Girls"!

My friends wonder why I call you all of the time
What can I say
I don't feel the need to give such secrets away
You think maybe I need help, no, I know that I'm right
I'm just better off not listening to friends' advice

When they insist on knowing my bliss
I tell them this
When they want to know what the reason is
I only smile when I lie, then I tell them why
(Because your kiss) your kiss is on my list
(Because your kiss) your kiss is on my list
Because your kiss is on my list of the best things in life

I'll defend the hell outta "Italian Girls" - it's silly, sure, but isn't much of the best pop? Plus John's vocal is oddly endearing.

The best schlock, too.

That is all.

I like "Some Things.." a lot too.

I got it from the public library yesterday, and I must say: they are so cool it hurts. "Say It Isn't So," "Maneater" and "I Can't Go for That" are especially good, particularly for early MTV.

However, the videos for "Maneater" and "Family Man" made me think of this thread: ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=1289994 . I think that the answer might be that they are both meatheads AND towers of strength.

"Adult Education" might be the best/worst video ever made, ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s22ufU-67iM&search=hall%20oates%20adult%20education

(Wasn't sure if I should post a YouTube thingy in here - is there some kind of ILX rule against that?)

Uh wha?

I actually kinda like the one for I Can't Go for That. The rest of them make me laugh.

My favorite part is in Say It Isn't So, when a swirling light makes Darryl Hall's face look like a totally fucked mask. That or the really, really long table.

How about bandongo.com? :)

All the ILM All-Stars pinch-hitting on this thread.

heard 'i can't go for that' out on friday night!

there is nothing "indefensible" about hall and oates. "i can't go for that" is a funky ass song.

-- fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, January 1, 2004 7:55 PM (3 years ago)

qft

wait he's a republican AND he thinks hall & oates suck? gtfowtbs

Thanks for reviving this Alfred, cause I would have done it myself pretty soon (or maybe that other thread that asks for a reevaluation of H&O). I honestly don't know why I've found myself so fascinated with these guys right now. I mean, throughout the 80's I didn't dislike them, but they were just kindof...there. I only bought like maybe three of their singles, tops.

I listened to the War Babies album earlier tonight but I only really like the first half. It just gets to heavy and proggy and concepty after awhile, stretches my patience. But that is probably Todd Rundgren's problem rather than theirs.

I heard "Family Man" for the first time since it came out tonight and I swear to god, I do not remember that song at all even though I know I heard it when it was a hit. It's so weird.

So I am going to seek out some of their 80's albums cause I really do want to hear more. And you were right, Alfred about those tracks you recommended from H20, they were quite nice.

In the case of "Family Man" I like Mike Oldfield's original version better. Hall & Oates had several great songs anyway though.

Oh so it's a cover then, that rather helps me. Thanks.

how's the live show these days? they're playing at palace of fine arts in sf, but the photo on the ad shows them in "acoustic sunrise" mode. worth it?

"out of touch" is so fucking gorgeous

anyone remember the Hall & Oates as council workers (or something) sketches on Big Train?

-- stevem (blueski),

I do - I especially like their canteen debrief with Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart - 'I mean, they, they can't even afford a new pair of shades...'.

Thanks to my wonderful friend who encouraged me to buy the new issue of Mojo (god where would I have been without him? I really needed the new issue of Mojo, just the shot in the arm I needed) I learned that Hall & Oates have a new live album out with some DVD accompaniment. Well I sortof stared at the review for awhile before I realized "wait a minute! LA live at the Troubadour! That's where I saw them last year! Holy shit!" I paid a buttload of money to go to that gig, too. Glad it's a live album now.

great album tracks on H2O.. "Crime Pays" "Guessing Games" and "Delayed Reaction" especially.

There is nothing indefensible about H&O

Alex in NYC OTM. It's been really interesting watching them recover their reputation over the last few years, but it's entirely deserved

I started picking up H&O here and there a few years ago, and used to describe it as a guilty pleasure. Now it's like, "If you don't get what's good about H&O, you don't know what th' heck you're talking about."

I saw H&O open for Lou Reed at the Felt Forum in NYC in 75? Can't say they left much of an impression.
I was only 14. Anyone else there?
j

they were my first concert; the "ooh yeah" tour when i was 6

The case against Hall and Oates has to be related to their 80s ubiquity. I never lived through any of that and as I discovered their albums in my parents collection was completely psyched by all the great pop music I discovered full of awesome hooks, great singing and some killer synth sounds.

Really solid soul songwriting, too. Complete working knowledge of Philly and Memphis, it would seem.

I was around during their eighties ubiquity, and since I didn't have MTV I had to rely on the radio, and they fit in nicely with Duran Duran, Bonnie Tyler, Prince, and everyone else.

I saw H&O open for Lou Reed at the Felt Forum in NYC in 75? C

Jesus fucking Christ are you kidding? I'm not worthy. We're not worthy, folks.

My mom used to have the Voices album on cassette and occasionally blasted it in the car. At the time that album epitomized embarrassing music only your mom would want to play with the windows down - seemingly just to embarrass you. Didn't take me too long to realize that it was just another case of my mom having better taste than I ever would.

"Big Kids"!

Damn, from everything I know about my mom's music tastes she's like the Boomer-era female voice of the "Losing My Edge" narrator.

"I remember being friends with everyone in Love and digging Forever Changes...when I was 14."

"I was there when Randy Newman sold albums out of the trunk of his car, and we all thought he was this funny Jewish piano man..."

"I remember when Hall and Oates were uncool for awhile, and I still flew their flag."

I never thought Hall and Oates were uncool. It depends on what your reference point is. If all you listened to were headbanger records, I guess so.

I read an interview somewhere with a bigshot record producer, who said that he'd only ever found two people who could reliably nail a vocal on the first take: the guy from Mr. Mister, and Daryl Hall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwAx-rzEKv8

up in the morning look in the mirror
I'm worn as her tooth brush hanging in the stand
my face ain't looking any younger
now I can see love's taken her toll on me

To me, the key to that clip is when the cat tilts its head back. That's when you know kitty's really feeling the music.

that is two great tastes that taste great together

great album tracks on H2O.. "Crime Pays" "Guessing Games" and "Delayed Reaction" especially

I wrote a few years ago that Marshall Crenshaw would have killed for the hooks in "Delayed Reaction."

might as well add "Open All Night" to that list..

"Italian Girls" isn't really my thing, however.

You don't drink vino rosso?

Free show in Brooklyn tonight...

http://www.brooklynconcerts.com/seaside.html

hall and oates? what's the TS thinking?

I expect the going-on-six-years revival to continue now that (500) Days of Summer turned "You Make My Dreams" into a dance routine.

keyboard cat is who did it~!

They were....ok last night. At first they came across as detached, Hall seated, strumming an acoustic, seemingly irritated with the stage mix. Oates more or less disappeared into the background after two solo turns at the mic. Hall was having trouble with the high notes, and Oates' voice was scratchy. But Hall warmed up to the crowd, his vocals stronger as the set went on. He finished the show at the keyboards, standing, rocking "I Can't Go For That." (An unlikely showstopper.) There's a boxed set in the works.

eMusic has the H&O catalog now.

"I Can't Go For That." (An unlikely showstopper.)
Not at all unlikely. Song fucking KILLS.

When I saw 'em last December, this was the setlist:

Out of Touch
Everything Your Heart Desires
When the Morning Comes
Family Man
How Does it Feel to be Back
Say It Isn't So
Las Vegas Turnaround
She's Gone
One on One
Sara Smile
Maneater
---------------
I Can't Go For That
Rich Girl
You Make My Dreams
---------------
Private Eyes

is it just me or are they everywhere lately? a box set coming out, too, to capitalize on the attention.

Oh yeah? is there a track listing?

Hall & Oates - Live at Park West Chicago 1983: http://www.sendspace.com/file/80zkel

ooh! is there a track listing?

. Intro/Family Man
2. Did It In A Minute
3. How Does It Feel To Be Back
4. Diddy Doo Wop (I Hear the Voices)
5. Italian Girls
6. Kiss On My List
7. Rich Girl
8. She's Gone
9. Art Of Heartbreak
10. One On One
11. You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling
12. I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)
13. Sweet Soul Music
14. Papa Oom Mow Mow (Band Intro's)
15. Funky Broadway
16. Sara Smile
17. Wait For Me
18. Maneater
19. Private Eyes
20. Open All Night
21. You Make My Dreams
22. Room To Breathe
23. When Something Is Wrong With My Baby

CNN interviews H&O. Ignore the terrible lede.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJZoPIJM6gI

So who's getting the box set? The AMG Review makes it sound pretty great, with live stuff from all different eras and, smartly, 3 discs of peak vs. 1 of post-peak.

Holy shit the way the bass and muted guitar go all spy-thriller starting at about 2:15 into 'Family Man'!

I adore that song.

they were on NPR last weekend (i think all things considered?) being interviewed and playing a few songs acoustic, which sounded pretty swank

Bcuz of the new box set I guess?

Also, the opening music of 'Can't Go Far That' represents some kind of perfect studio fairyland for me-- the calmly clucking muted guitar with quiet synth-pad response, then the little synth arabesque and the tinny-filtered voice-- MAJIKK

Great 12" mix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv1ujZ93l2w

I don't have that!

Not too fond of the dance mix of 'Adult Education'-- prefer the radio version.

Those reissues from a few years ago = A+

Yes those are on eMusic now which is where I have been cherry-picking tracks. Unfortunately ended up with the wrong mix of 'Adult Ed'. So far I've gotten only the familiar tracks.

If I get one album in full should it be Private Eyes or H2O?

PRIVATE EYES

NO GET BOTH

Both really, but H20 is some kind of peak of early eighties mainstream pop experimentalism.

Yeah I'm leaning H20 at the mo.

I'd say there's a case to be made for Voices as well. More of an upbeat rock vibe with a bit of New Wave energy vs. the slightly more R&B direction of the next two - though they always straddled several camps - the music is already as polished and pop-radio friendly as it would get on their more popular albums.

I managed to get both H2O and Private Eyes with my remaining eMu credits by skipping the Oates-sung tracks (sorry Oates). "Crime Pays" is awesome!

Will probably get Voices next month. Am on big FM-rock kick at moment.

The fourth disc of this box set has post-1988 stuff, and, boy, talk about their muse taking flight. The hair isn't even excusable. Plus, their squishy mid seventies white R&B period is too heavily represented. However, I'd never head the Abandoned Luncheonette material. Matos is right: it's got a proto-Belle & Sebastian vibe: sunny, witty folk-pop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHYE4D8n3Ts&feature=related

One of my personal faves of H&O.

best thing on the internet ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7TI-AJi2O8

indefensible? i don't get it. seriously, maybe the best pop/rock song ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tJoIaXZ0rw&feature=related

I refuse to watch any more of that movie than I've already seen. But yeah... great song.

that film put me off both hall and oates and briefly, living.

this song achieves an impossible level of happiness

it's weird, i never heard that song a lot in the past or thought of it as one of their signature hits, but in the past two years it's picked up some kind of zeitgeist appearing in so much different stuff (that Days of Summer movie and the keyboard cat clip upthread, Step Brothers, episodes of Glee and The Office, etc.).

The Bird & The Bee's new H&O covers album is nothing special but very listenable, hard to mess up those songs and they don't.

I can't recall hearing any Hall & Oates on the radio at all since the early 90's, aside from the 3 or 4 big 70's hits (Sara Smile, Rich Girl, She's Gone..)

re: zeitgeist, everyone watched that Shorewood high school clip linked above Daniel's post right?

i didn't, sound's off on the computer -- same song?

yep

that film put me off both hall and oates and briefly, living.

ha! why? in total, i've seen that scene and maybe four others from the movie.

i like the lead actor (dancing guy).

oates kinda looks like lionel richie

Abandoned Luncheonette has long been a guilty pleasure of mine.... especially "When the Morning Comes" and "I'm Just a Kid"

"My face ain't gettin' any younger" is one of my favorite lines

I like the clapping in "private eyes," also the part where he goes really high like "EEYYYYYYEEEES!"

No such thing as "guilty" when it comes to loving H&O.

"one on one" = one of the few songs i could listen on a loop

whole private eyes lp is fire

The four-album streak from '80 to '84 is unimpeachable.

just looked at the back of Big Bam Boom while listening the other day and learned Arthur Baker mixed it (or parts anyway). These guys knew what was up.

"When the Morning Comes" is such a perfect song.

Abandoned Luncheonette has long been a guilty pleasure of mine

i recently discovered this disc. i have no guilt about loving it. in fact, i think it's a good gateway for people who don't normally like h&o to give them another try, since the sound and vibe is pretty far removed from some of their slicker, glossier, more played-out 80s albums.

For the record, the gorgeous "Las Vegas Turnaround" and "Had I Know You Better Then" are John Oates compositions.

These guys are so great because you can find all their albums for a buck each, they have tons of them, and every one of them that I've dug through (so far) has at least a pretty-good ratio of memorable, well-performed songs to aimless duds. I've been finally chewing on Voices lately and, god, I just can't stop listening to "Diddy Doo Wop" in the same way that I couldn't stop listening to "Head Above Water" when I got Private Eyes. Great great great stuff.

"Gotta Lotta Nerve (Perfect, Perfect)"! "Big Kids"!

How Daryl Hall Became Cool Again; Or, How Glossy Magazines Started Paying Attention Again.

don't worry, we thought he was cool before everyone else did

Hall and Oates were always dope.

The end of the Hall & Oates era came in a hotel bathroom in 1990 in Tokyo, where they had just performed at a Yoko Ono–sponsored concert commemorating the death of John Lennon. There, in a sad, reflective moment, John Oates said good-bye—to the mustache.

“It really was a kind of spiritual moment for me,” Oates says, laughing. “The mustache represented a me I no longer was. I shaved it off and never looked back.” The next day, he and Hall were waiting at the Tokyo airport for a flight back to the States when Miles Davis appeared. “He came up to me with those red eyes of his,” says Oates. “He got like three inches from my face and kinda drew his finger across his own upper lip, as if he was shaving, and he said to me [in a deep, raspy voice], ‘Now the lovin’s gonna be better.’ ”

oh my god at miles davis

There was a period where people cut down Hall and Oates as if they were Air Supply, but how long ago was that? "Maneater" was street just like "Beat It" and "Billie Jean". And they were put a song with the word "bitch" in it on the radio!

According to Daryl Hall, when Jackson was recording “We Are the World”, Jackson approached him and admitted to lifting the bass line for "Billie Jean" from a Hall and Oates song, apparently referring to "I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)". Hall says that he told Jackson that he had stolen the bass line as well.

Really though, what sort of lyric is "She needs a place she can lounge and wear gowns in."

A genius one, that's for sure.

PFM posted Ben Gibbard's H&O piece. It's stupid.

That Miles quote cracks me up.

Yeah, the Gibbard thing veers close to genuine fannish excitement in places but he's at such pains to describe the band's output as absurd and ridiculous that you wonder why he bothered at all. Doesn't seem much of a step above the "name-checking for cred" thing that he dismisses at the start.

"Italian Girls"This is a rare appearance of John Oates on lead vocals. A quick perusing of the liner notes indicates that Oates penned this tune without the assistance of Daryl Hall or any of the other songwriters the duo had been known to collaborate with. And you can tell. The ethnically tinged lyrics (ex., "I see Sophia on the silver screen-a" ) hit a level of offensiveness rivaled only by Genesis' "Illegal Alien"

I guess "offensive" means something else in Gibbardsville.

jesus. so that's the nudnik who gets to put it in zooey d?

btw, John Oates had a lot more lead vocal bits in the 70s, so calling "Italian Girls" a rare occurrence just makes me think Gibbard is more of a doofus than I already did.

Yeah! The most persistent misconception is Oates' redundancy when he in fact wrote many songs alone, cowrote most of their hits, and played better guitar than Hall.

okay I don't need to read that article, the picture at the top pretty much says everything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-zn-CuBD6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GAqzcMevgg

this is weird, "I Can't Go For That" was just playing on my PC when i clicked on this thread

man, cee-lo is an embarassingly bad singer, bad choice to put him in a place where he'll be compared to daryl fuckin hall. Probably true of anybody that appears on this...podcast? What a weird idea for a series.

Really? I thought he sounded pretty good. Anyway, the series make sense to me, but I think the informal muso jam session works here in general (maybe because it's actually pretty structured). It's not just various people doing H&O covers with Daryl Hall. Anyway, I was impressed with the Company of Thieves episode.

Also, Daryl Hall still sounds good, but he still doesn't sound like the Daryl Hall of the 70s and 80s. It's not like putting peak era Hall next to other singers.

yeah this is a tight version, especially rhythimically

as sick as i am of Cee-Lo these days i don't really see how anyone can call him a "bad singer"

this is wonderful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5B6lJPa1Wc&feature=related

Ehhh, I guess maybe I overstated it, more "he annoys me" than "he is bad," but Hall is one of my favorite singers in the game so I'm sorta biased on that side too.

holy shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDFaUVCaUuI&feature=related

Mannnnnnnnnnnn, that guy can sing. I was a little disappointed it wasn't a Blink-182 or Bjork oover but that faded fast.

Last year's solo album was a genuine surprise, and, yeah, the bastard can still sing.

Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes >>>>> Bjork-182

lmao @ 'bjork-182'

it's a collab that needs to happen

ol' Darryl shoulda got Beans to spit his verse from "This Can't Be Life" there, speaking of collabs that need to happen

http://dinerhotline.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/the-story-of-the-the-abandoned-luncheonette-aka-the-rosedale-diner/

^second part of this is a great read, but first part is worth reading for context

What a great story! Thanks Rev.

Fantastic find, Rev. Will be sharing that one out!

can anyone tell me who the first musicians to come out and namecheck hall and oates as favorites were, in terms of rehabilitating their image with the general public? i kind of feel like that will happen too with billy joel if it hasn't already, but he comes across as such a sad sack i am guessing it will take alot longer (and his music doesn't have any "urban" cred which H&O always did)

the general public never thought H&O needed rehabilitation. It was kids whose parents bought H&O records and later started writing music reviews and going dancing who realized that "I Can't Go For That" and "Out of Touch" and at least a half dozen other singles were marvelous. No rehab necessary.

and they have never left R&B and adult R&B stations.

yeah, that was imprecise of me, i guess i meant indie types who i am imagining ridiculed them as 80s dreck, and now they are "hip" "again"....put another way, did any big time indie musicians come out as fans starting, maybe, 10-15 years ago?

Too tired to write all the necessary qualifications but Fun Lovin Criminals come to mind

maybe an outgrowth of those yacht rock videos

I wonder if the H&O as punchline thing was entirely from the cheesy videos

re: billy joel, i was listening to him in the car a while ago and had a sacrilegious moment where i thought "maybe this guy ain't so bad, he writes catchy songs." and i've heard a quiet murmuring of joel reappraisal recently. maybe his moment of being appreciated by the People Who Really Matter (ie, not corny ass suburban lame-o's) is dawning.

but the corney-ass suburban lame-o's have for thirty years been responsible for H&O's royalties!

definitely, spectrum, joel's stock is on the rise

I like them, if only in an American Psycho / sterile yuppie kinda way. I mean, "Rich Girl" is a great song, no?
— Bob Marley

In Philadelphia Hall & Oates is in the tap water. (That's not what gives it that funny taste though.)

My sense is that a whole lot of people went "Gee that Billy Joel ain't half bad" after the Sandy benefit performance. This immediately made me want to run to the hills.

can anyone tell me who the first musicians to come out and namecheck hall and oates as favorites were, in terms of rehabilitating their image with the general public?

surely this is solely responsible:

http://pitchfork.com/features/guest-lists/5896-death-cab-for-cutie-my-favorite-ten-songs-by-the-rock-group-hall-oates/

Death Cab for Cutie: My Favorite Ten Songs by the Rock Group Hall & Oates
By Ben Gibbard, Death Cab for Cutie , February 10, 2003

oh did you have to

The disingenuous dbag clinging fast to that irony card

nah it's definitely not the gibbard article (or i hope not, at least). the overall rehab came later throughout the decade. i remember a SPIN (yeah) article called "HALL & OATES: THE '80S VELVET UNDERGROUND?" or something insane when I was in high school, so like '06-'07ish? it was in full swing about a year after that.

Like I said, I've been hearing "I Can Go For That" and a couple others in clubs with "Britpop" nights since 1999 or 2000 at least, so they never went away! Simply Red sampled the former in the early 2000s. Credit/blame twentysomethings writers coming of age and suddenly realizing that the songs their parents played were also getting action during DJ sets.

*I Can't

it was a combination of
stuff like Ariel Pink
the Yacht Rock series giving this vibe/era a name, thus bringing more attention to it as an aesthetic/entity
and
people getting more into balearic/dad rock/etc, all going into creating an atmosphere more friendly towards H&O

You overestimate the cultural influence of Ariel Pink.

nobody outside Pitchfork gives a tinker's damn about Ariel Pink, and certainly not their support, tacit or not, of the biggest duo in American rock history. They're like Billy Joel, Elton John, the Eagles, or whatever -- their songs have never gone away. And you can dance to quite a few of them. And despite the sax solos their eighties stuff is often as austere as Spoon.

re: billy joel, i've a lot of time for him, and his Nylon Curtain album is genuinely excellent from start to finish

yeah, I just meant as far as their hipster reappraisal - and didn't mean to give the credit solely to him, but to that overall yacht-y, beachy thing that developed in the mid-00s and I guess broke through around 2008. as far as H&O having more widespread popularity again - I def don't think most people give a damn - or even know about - Pitchfork, but I wonder if the popularity of that style floating up through the indie world filtered out into pop production (and I'm not necessarily saying indie has that much influence usually, but I have heard a little of that vague indie-yacht sound - the guitar tones and slap bass - in some pop)

xp

So Spin has an article from 1988...

http://books.google.com/books?id=gBfYiTJzzxEC&pg=PA81&dq=hall+%26+oates+spin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sBrqUIfoBfKy0AHU5IGwBw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=hall%20%26%20oates%20spin&f=false

They opened for Lou Reed during the Rock and Roll Animal tour!

I do like how Hal acknowledged even then what we know for sure now: 1985 marked the end of their imperial phase, with the Temptations live album the peak of their aspirations.

A good recent performance of Hall's biggest solo hit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41wRUFxQv0A

I have no opinion on the legacy of Hawlin' Oates, however, their hit machine of the early 80s was something (even as a chart-following stooge/youth) was something i couldn't then, and still cannot embrace. Props for a bunch of their earlier output when the were really digging-out a spot for themselves -- but the comparisons to the Everly/Righteous Bros for such drivel as "Private Eye" was unwarranted, and only buoyed by an inept audience of media consumers who, literally, bought-in to their covers of far superior source material (much of which, is a bit derivative as well).

No doubt, the guy can sing; and Hall's affinity for sweet harmonies is always welcome -- but just about everything after (and including) "Kiss On My List" smells far too formulaic for me to be excited about. Personally, i blame the fickle money-grubbing nature of the commercial media that drove these tracks to be slathered over the airwaves, and the empty-headed buying populace that made these mega stars.

The coolest thing i've heard about Hall concerns his interest in preserving 18th Century homes, even to the point of specing out single-pane glass in the windows in lieu of far more efficient modern replacements (his "Live from Darryl's" home is a prime example).

Well, lookie there, i guess i have an opinion after all.

I don't know how "formulaic" is an insult, not when within the bounds of three- and four-minute pop few H&O songs sound the same. How is "Kiss On My List" like "One on One"? How are "Family Man" and "Out of Touch" similar? What about "I Can't Go That"?

Also: "an inept audience of media consumers" -- really?

suspecterrain, a man who has never ever been influenced by the media, nor consumed anything.

he has only consumed expertly

It's not formulaic if you invented the formula and demonstrated its effectiveness time and again in a variety of settings, the results of which are a body of wonderfully hummable and fun-to-listen-to tunes which are delightful to hear some 30 years down the line.

few H&O songs sound the same

Raggett & Keyes -- get your head out of the sand and address the argument, not opine on the person who wrote it, then, go get intimate with yourselves and your old Lionel Ritchie records.

It's not formulaic if you invented the formula

watch out - this guy takes no prisoners!

how the hell wasn't Al Green dropped by his record company?

oh no "product" waaaaaanhh

go get intimate with yourselves and your old Lionel Ritchie records.

hello, it is me i'm looking for

their pedigree demonstrates an existence that has difficulty expanding outside the realm of radio

This isn't just absurd as a premise -- an artist has an obligation to look beyond radio confines? -- but just wrong, as the number of R&B and hip hop acts who've cited H&O's New Wave soul moves in their own work (there's a song called "Billie Jean" you might need to hear).

"formulaic" is not a terribly useful concept when criticising pop music. it seems to miss the point.

yeah I mean if you despise commercialism, radio and formula then a Hall and Oates thread is kind of a lol place to sound off

Ned, is it true you dance on the ceiling?

This thread reeks of "product."

I'm sure Ian McKaye has a LOT to say about Hall and Oates.

"You're Out Of Touch (With The World)"

*steps away to bathroom to get intimate with myself*

...All night long

"Formulaic" is the last word I would use to describe "Delayed Reaction" or "Say It Isn't So." It sounds like you've deemed yourself an expert on this band after becoming familiar with about 8 of their biggest songs. H&O doesn't get nearly enough credit for stretching their influences outside of what was expected... I'm surprised "Crime Pays" hasn't been sampled anywhere in hiphop (as far as I know)... And "Gotta Notta Nerve" is easily the best Devo knock-off I've ever heard.

This is "formulaic"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lagKbNP7SvU

I was gonna cite "Open All Night" but then someone could've said it sounds like Ariel Pink which makes it formulaic.

man <i>H20</i> has so many good, unexpected tunes.

...number of R&B and hip hop acts who've cited H&O's New Wave soul...

...there's a song called "Billie Jean" you might need to hear...

It sounds like you've deemed yourself an expert on this band

nice to see some actually find some humor in this -- i mean, how can anybody be so fragile that they can be hurt by an opinion

We're awestruck by your perfect ear and discriminating intelligence.

I have no reason to be hurt. Just saying, your opinion seems misinformed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=FvcJqcUlYTo

suspecterrain can you recommend some non-formulaic music to listen to? also looking to buy some records that aren't product

or maybe just cut to the chase and instead of giving me fish teach me how to fish: what makes an act bonafide? you've clearly thought this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vPonjXOfYo

if you despise commercialism, radio and formula then a Hall and Oates thread is kind of a lol place to sound off

Naive TI -- that we disagree somehow makes me a curmudgeon?

balls -- while it's worse now than it has ever been, most cities have pretty much the same hand-full of radio stations. they may be dance-oriented or pop or classic rock or oldies or "outlaw" country or whatever, but there is little variation in the playlists from town-to-town as media conglomerates are pedaling the same product in what is likely several dozen separate markets. I certainly recognize that iTunes (et. al.) has expanded the possibility for individual musical discoveries, but you can pretty much expect them to repeatedly shove whatever's "hot" in your face in hopes of selling more copies.

Personally, i view music as art, not product. Art, no matter how much critical consensus it garners, is still subjective to the individual participating with it.

you're opening my eyes man

ftr what cities have 'outlaw' country stations?

suspecterrain what's yr take on the 'monsanto protection act'?

suspectmarissa

ftr what cities have 'outlaw' country stations?

The ones that play Kristofferson, Jennings, and Cash?

suspecterrain is right: the thread title is as constricted and absurd as his arguments.

Lord Sotosyn; i presume you'd prefer to exchange personal attacks and further define stereotypical divergences and the nature of each others grandmothers affinity for donning militaristic footwear?

balls -- Monsanto Protection Act -- we need to feed to the world, and gmo's certainly help achieve that in a way far more efficiently than we have ever seen. But the fallout from monculture has yet to fully demonstrate it's full impact on both crops and its pollinators. Man creates products and laws well before we are able to understand their consequences.

banaka should weigh in on this

hall & oates more like hall and butts

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-U1967295.jpg?size=67&uid=9300992c-ba67-4557-9c49-8bee0bb6a8dd

In the 80s we had Hall and Oates
Today we have drones

now we've got no hall and no oates

suspecterrain,

Perhaps I am misreading you. But your contributions to this thread and the Spotify one read to me like pure trolling. Most people come to boards like ILM to share their views and knowledge of music -- and to add to them by learning something. You seem dead set on letting everyone know how much you know -- and how superior that knowledge is to everyone else's.

You also appear to lack a sense of humor.

you're suspect

under two different names i have been posting to this board for over 10 years. my initial post here and on the Spotify thread were simple statements of my opinion; that individuals used them to make indiscriminate conclusions and remarks about me as a person is something i fail to find significant humor in. I don't think less of people for liking this music, or black-eyed peas or lady gaga; but i certainly believe that this venue should be more than capable of discussing these topics on many levels. Nowhere have i stated that i am "right" and you are "wrong" -- i'm simply offering my personal standpoint -- just like in the Spotify thread; tried it, didn't like the commercials, opted instead for grooveshark. If i were trolling i would likely have made some asinine statement that grouped users of Spotify (or any other streaming service) are complete idiots -- i did not -- i stated my opinion and then had to defend myself against accusations that i was somehow a degenerate because i didn't see the value in a streaming service. Seems you might have this thing the wrong way round.

this kind of asinine statement?

Personally, i blame the fickle money-grubbing nature of the commercial media that drove these tracks to be slathered over the airwaves, and the empty-headed buying populace that made these mega stars.

If you've been on this board ten years, then you might have seen the futility of positing binaries like "art" vs "product"

if you don't like commerce probly best not listen to music

or engage with cultural products at all really

You may or may not be trolling but I think you may have missed out on a transformation or reappropriation of the "Defend the Indefensible" concept - - - for me this kind of thread has always been about rehabilitating artists that are widely considered "indefensible." Obviously many such threads are just heaping abuse on easy targets, but others are a resource for discovering a way into bands you otherwise might not have rated.

If you have been posting here for over ten years, then surely you can't think we're all strangers to arguments dismissing popular music on the basis that it is popular (ie commercial, marketable, catchy, whatever). xxxposts

To return to the subject of cooperation. It may be a curious speculation ot attend to the progressive steps, by which this feature of human society may be expected to decline. For example: shall we have concerts of music? The miserable state of mechanism of the majority of the performers, is so conspicuous, as to be, even at this day, a topic of mortification and ridicule. Will it not be practicable hereafter for one man to perform the whole? Shall we have theatrical exhibitions? This seems to include an absurd and vicious cooperation. It may be doubted, whether men will hereafter come forward in any mode, formally to repeat words and ideas that are not their own? It may be doubted, whether any musical performer will habitually execute the compositions of others? We yield supinely to the superior merit of our predecessors, because we are accustomed to indulge the inactivity of our faculties. All formal repetition of other men's ideas, seems to be a scheme for imprisoning, for so long a time, the operations of our own mind. It borders perhaps, in this respect, upon a breach of sincerity, which requires that we should give immediate utterance to every useful and valuable idea that occurs.

William Godwin agrees with you and he was quite cool tho

You also, in those 10 years, might have picked up that what Ned and I wrote here was pretty mild

blame it on 'terrain

You may have been more convincing had you compard H&O unfavorably to some other 80s pop artist, but since you just talked about product and inept consumers it leads me to believe that you probably hate pop music in general. An attitude more fitting for RYM boards than ILM.

Compared

i for one welcome our new leader suspecterrain

haha buzza

i think it's great when a time-served member takes a big step out into the limelight

valuable old poster!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVS3WNt7yRU

more like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fqCS7Y_kME

http://depletedcranium.com/mrspoctalk.jpg

http://depletedcranium.com/mrspoctalk.jpg

if you don't like commerce probly best not listen to music...or engage with cultural products at all really

this kind of asinine statement? -- Noodle

the futility of positing binaries like "art" vs "product" -- Lord Sotosyn

You may have been more convincing had you compared H&O unfavorably to some other 80s pop artist, but since you just talked about product and inept consumers it leads me to believe that you probably hate pop music in general. An attitude more fitting for RYM boards than ILM.

for me this kind of thread has always been about rehabilitating artists that are widely considered "indefensible." Obviously many such threads are just heaping abuse on easy targets, but others are a resource for discovering a way into bands you otherwise might not have rated. ― Doctor Casino

jeez u really are a pompous ass

*genuflects*

Pop music in itself is not dis-satisfying, but i tend to feel that it best serves children, the infirm, and neophytes.
Pop music in itself is not dis-satisfying, but i tend to feel that it best serves children, the infirm, and neophytes.
Pop music in itself is not dis-satisfying, but i tend to feel that it best serves children, the infirm, and neophytes.
Pop music in itself is not dis-satisfying, but i tend to feel that it best serves children, the infirm, and neophytes.

suspecterrain can you recommend a city in the us w/ an outlaw country format radio station and the opportunity to 'participate' in a mississippi field holler? also could you tell me how hall and oates and abba work similar terrain? still waiting on that non-formulaic music recommendation also. also, since you've been here ten years apparently, how giddy did you get when you realized today was the day someone finally noticed you? also this: most are only willing to discuss the merits of which topics need to be discussed and not so much on the topic itself - am i looking at actual irony here or is this straight trolling here?

i number myself among the infirm, for the record

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2v9orY17c1qhtknmo1_500.png

"Pop music in itself is not dis-satisfying, but i tend to feel that it best serves children, the infirm, and neophytes."

also those of ill-breeding and poorly-formed brainpan.

see i was thinking more tom townshend but i think you're right, the tone is taylor nichols

Of course you'd say that Hall and Oates are good. You have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter.

http://livingincinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/i-prefer-good-literary-crit.jpg

"Also, i'm not a pop hater; radio can make any type of music unlistenable if they play it too often; i mean, flip through the dial of your areas classic rock stations and you can pretty much guarantee that you'll find one of a very short list of Zeppelin/Floyd/AD-DC tracks (seriously, does it ALWAYS have to be "Wish You Were Here" and "Money")?"

hahaha thank you so much

i thought neophyte was a scene from The Matrix tbh

Tom Townsend seemed kinda otm. i was thinking about this:

Audrey Rouget: What Jane Austen novels have you read?
Tom Townsend: None. I don't read novels. I prefer good literary criticism. That way you get both the novelists' ideas as well as the critics' thinking. With fiction I can never forget that none of it really happened, that it's all just made up by the author.

well novels at one time were dismissed as the pastime of women and children. dunno about neophytes or the infirm.

Okay what the shit happened here.

And who is suspecterrain really, then? Because even Startrekman is in on the joke.

i am on iphone in taco shop. "i can't go for that" just came on the radio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

people are dancing on tables

tell us about Lionel Richie, Ned

xpost haha

Love will conquer all.

Lionel Richie is A Man. He sings about things.

and you looooooooooooooove him and you want to maaaarrrrry him

Don't we all. For we are truly in love. With you, Grrl.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jWNhyMUpjSE/SdyTlu2WbaI/AAAAAAAADPA/WUFY1tCB800/s400/lionel+richie+sculpture.jpg

What, you guys getting bored not having Geir to kick around anymore?

we are getting bored not having geir to kick around anymore

i mean he still posts here frequently

is geir back? i thought he'd disappeared...

(loving yr work on this thread btw balls)

Dhrupad chant, Tuvan throat music, Mississippi field hollers, hippie drum circles, essays, poetry, sculpture, painting...... Please clarify; what is the basis for not participating in these mediums as it relates to commercialism?

not how you spell pottery

Lionel Richie's last name has been mangled itt too

I remember the day when I was 15 and Cleveland's Tuvan throat singing FM station announced it was changing formats to all Hall & Oates/Captain & Tenille. Saddest day of my high school life.

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2012/08/27/9843114/107.5%20Outlaw%20Country%20-%20Chris%20-%20Honey%20-%20Eric.jpg

just an hour ago a link to an article regarding Duran and Japan was posted on this thread. The original article is posted here. Original Duran vocalist Stephen Duffy says in regards to "the scene" in 1979 as...

“It was exciting because we started the band at a point before music started repeating itself… since then music has become more or less derivative..."

lol case closed

IN OUR FACE

suspectterrain your whole stance on this issue has been reminding me of a story one of my best friends once told me. he was young & dumb and was working construction for an older guy. at some point, he decided to go on an extended rant about "country music" and how bad it all was and how stupid the people who listened to it were. after he was done, his boss looked at him and said with a mix of pity and scorn "why don't you say the only thing you CAN say about it, which is that YOU don't like it?" your assumptions of objectivitiy itt are particularly jarring coming from somebody who has been around the board for a while. there's a big difference between "I don't like this band and here's why" vs. "all the people who listen to this are stupid."

also, objectivity doesn't exist and I thought that had been common knowledge since the early 90's, get with it.

So the dumped.lead singer of a treading-water Duran sez music is derivative.

you don't appear to have read the entirety of the post; and as for those inbred country posers..... we need to save that for another time:)

fp

your terrain is suspect, sir

Duffy jumped from Duran, not the other way round. Talk about thread-drift.

.... and Stephen Duffy is a fantastic pop stylist.

I think you mean COMMERCE stylist

knowing it's just some sad middle aged durranie trolling kinda kills it, you'll never measure up to the queen

http://www.faithinpubliclife.org/wp-content/uploads/Kathryn%20Jean%20Lopez.jpg

This thread revive is full of magic and worms.

i heard Stephen Duffy made records to try and sell them so i can't take him seriously as an artist

did he form some kind of noize collective that I'm unaware of

.... and Stephen Duffy is a fantastic pop stylist.

― children, the infirm, and neophytes, Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:55 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

srs lmao at commentary on "the scene"

i listened to "voices," "private eyes" and "h2o" yesterday while driving to the city, so thanks to everyone for inspiring that.

helluva streak -- one of the most underrated of streaks if you toss in Big Bam Boom.

hadn't heard "I Can't Go For That" for a long time, & when it came on the airplane radio station last week I was startled by the dryness of the beat; hadn't ever really "gotten" why H&O charted on R&B radio before

and it was a demo!

Daryl Hall sketched out the basic song one evening at a music studio in New York City in 1981 after a recording session for the Private Eyes album. Hall began to play a bass line on a Korg organ, and sound engineer Neil Kernon recorded the result. Hall then came up with a guitar riff, which he and Oates worked on together. The next day, Hall and Sara Allen worked on the lyrics.[1]

suspecterrain has inspired me to, at long last, create the followup to POLLin' My Head Above Water: "Private Eyes" by Hall & Oates . Pop fans, I give you: How Does It POLL To Be Back: "Voices" by Hall & Oates !

oooh

yeah!

more on "I Can't Go For That"

“Remember the old Roland CompuRhythm box?” he asks. “I turned to the Rock and Roll 1 preset, sat down at a Korg organ that happened to be lying there and started to play this bass line that was coming to me. It's the old recording studio story: The engineer heard what I was doing and turned on the tape machine. Good thing, because I'm the kind of person who will come up with an idea and forget it. The chords came together in about 10 minutes, and then I heard a guitar riff, which I asked John, who was sitting in the booth, to play.”

“I remember that moment clearly,” says Oates. When we spoke, the relaxed and affable Oates had just dropped his 9-year-old son off at his math tutor and had plenty of time to talk on the cell phone before the lesson ended. Oates and his wife live in the mountains outside of Aspen, Colo., and homeschool their child. “The old Compurhythm had four presets: Rock 1, Rock 2, cha cha/samba and some other stupid beat. We both had them in our houses, and one was sitting in the studio.

“We cut everything live back then, but sometimes used the Roland box to come up with a tempo,” Oates continues. “Anyway, Daryl came up with this great bass line, using whatever sound happened to be on the organ, and Neil miked it and the drum machine.

“Daryl came up with the ‘B’ section chords, and then I plugged my 1958 Strat directly into the board, which was either an early SSL or a Trident. We were beginning to experiment with digital samplers — the Fairlight and Synclavier in particular — but were still recording analog. At any rate, Daryl sang a guitar part idea, I started to experiment with a muting thing and the part evolved on the spot.”

Did they think about adding another guitar part? “No, never!” Oates says. “When we play ‘I Can't Go for That’ in concert, I usually play some shimmery parts, but there was a leanness to the '80s sound that we were into. The Cars and other groups had that straight, simple eighth-note feel, and it was an influence on us; it was one of the cool things about '80s music. The '70s were Rococo, but punk and new wave flavored the '80s, and we responded to those styles.”

thx for the new dn suspect, er... rain

Excellent if overenthusiastic recounting by the late T-Bone Wolk of the Rock and Soul Part 1 sessions to record "Say It Isn't So" and "Adult Education." Reminded me of how integral Hall's eighth-note piano chords were to, say, "Kiss on My List" and "Private Eyes" and "One on One."

That's a good read, thanks.

"Say It Isn't So" is my favorite song recorded for a comp btw

Tough call between that and "Slip Slidin' Away," for me.

"Say It Isn't So" is a marvelous karaoke number too.

"do i do" for me

do you sell the chocolate kisses part

balls sells but who's buying

"Mary Jane's Last Dance" is cool but ultimately I would also go with "Say It Isn't So"

It's basically ""Hot Fun in the Summertime," "All That Money Wants" and "Say It Isn't So."

no sorry i meant 'do i do' is my fave greatest hits addition, i've never had luck w/ hall & oates at karaoke, following hall's thread in 'say it isn't so' required more pathos than i had that night and i'd rather not speak about what happened when i did 'one on one'.

mookieproof otm - i've had more luck w/ megadeth

haha really? Hall is no good at pledging his troth. Part of what makes SIIS so easy to sing is channeling contempt.

Actually, I agree with balls - "Say It Isn't So" is tough to sing! It's like Rumpelstiltskin, he melody kind of evaporates on you if you're not Daryl Hall.

as for new songs on compilations, i think we are all forgetting something very important here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7twIF8PWic

or not

you guys know me, contempt ain't my bag.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lmHIbp9FyCg/Tf3TPuFiMFI/AAAAAAAAAKM/W7LOzSZJ-Dk/s1600/Ringo%2BStarr%2Bpeace_love.jpg

I'll tell you what's difficult: "One on One," as I learned in December. As embarrassing a pratfall as "Open Your Heart."

My worst karaoke snafu was doing Cameo's "Candy" and the given lyrics were only Larry's adlibs, not the main melody. Other than that, I just sometimes forget I can't pull off anything written for a high tenor. No MJ or Stevie for me. :(

Alfred, what is that making-of-No-Can-Do paragraph taken from? That's awesome. The muted guitar at the beginning of that song is one of my all-time favorite 80s guitar moments...

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_hall_oates_cant/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/arrest-made-oates-bites-halls-face/story?id=17947753#.UXClghxDGd0

(your Maneater joke here...)

jesus. it's stories like these that make me feel grateful none of my neighbors are, currently, biting my face.

This is terrible:

Arrest Made After Oates Bites Hall's Face

D'oh... nevermind

THAT FUCKING PHOTO

NIGHTMARES. NIGHTMAAARRRRRES.

he's got a Gacy look about him too which doesn't help

ugggh

maneater

doh

flagged u for that fyi

:)

Hall & Oates should have been special celebrity guests on an episode of Miami Vice.

omigod this thread in the last third. I forgot!

I agree with your assessment, and maybe i should have chosen a more positive message from which to stake a flag.

This the my last day on ILM. This poll reveals just how much shitiness in musical taste permeates this fine upper-crust of musical pros. And it's not just these judgments; in 10 years of reading and posting, only a handful of meaningful discussions have helped me discover new music and reveal new understandings. You experts are just as unsophisticated the pablum devouring public, and my early respect for many contributors to this site has been beaten down under the girth of far too much asshole flesh. Good fucking riddance.

― suspecterrain, Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:07 AM (3 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Personally, i view music as art, not product. Art, no matter how much critical consensus it garners, is still subjective to the individual participating with it.

― suspecterrain, Saturday, March 30, 2013 2:54 PM (4 months ago)

my early respect for many contributors to this site has been beaten down under the girth of far too much asshole flesh

^^^ passable board description, fumbles at the end though

i don't think "girth" means what he thinks it means

http://24.media.tumblr.com/10b91a493d33d87f5901763c5857f46e/tumblr_mrhbuhTyHb1qjbe0to1_500.jpg

is that Bob Mould Jr. behind Oates?

Coming to the UK in July for the first time in a decade.

Now if only I could find someone else who actually likes H&O...

How can you even hate Hall & Oates

http://www.diynetwork.com/daryls-restoration-over-hall/show/index.html

!

First I thought title meant he was wiping and replacing vocal tracks laid down by his erstwhile buddy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_University

And the last photo on the page is Hall & Oates.

I saw them live last night for the first time and sweet merciful jezus they were fantastic. I had heard they were great live but I guess I needed to see it with my own two eyes. The band is so tight and hearing all those 80's synth hits with a full band turns hearing them live into a new experience somehow, still equally as enjoyable.

Set list is pretty short on paper but they extended a lot of these songs into 10 min+ or more with sax and guitar etc, I Can't Go For That was easily 20 minutes iirc

Family Man
Maneater
Out of Touch
Say It Isn't So
You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'
One on One
She's Gone
Sara Smile
Is It a Star
I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)

Encore:
Rich Girl
Kiss on My List
Private Eyes
You Make My Dreams

But they just had such a warm, relaxed vibe, and the audience was eating out of their hand from the first note of the first song.

It's funny because it was a double-bill with Tears For Fears, who were good. (Roland still sounds terrific. Kirk seemed to be having a bad night and sounded quite flat on a couple of the songs he sings solo.) But once the whole show was over it was hard not to compare the two, and the difference between the performances were pretty stark. Tears for Fears held a concert, and Daryl Hall and John Oates put on A Show.

how's Hall's voice holding up?

great! he doesn't hit as many of the high notes anymore - he saves those for one or two big moments, and kind of reworks his vocals to sing a little lower on a few songs, I think he still sounds really good.

this is from last month and pretty close to how he sounded last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXVa52MAdtY

also i gotta confess - i was crushing p hard on him by the end of the show. no explanation for it other than it's totally the voice. even with the indoor sunglasses and the corny hair-tossing, after they did 'one on one' i was like, 'welp I'm pregnant now'

leave him alone! he's a family man!

awww. yeah i'd actually dig seeing them live, which is something i rarely think about acts of their stature and generation.

totally. and they still seem to enjoy performing, or at least they are good at giving the audience that impression; that for me goes a really long way. they don't seem to be sleepwalking through the hits to get a paycheck; and having such a tight, talented band behind them creates a really warm fun vibe, much more of a 'shared' experience between the stage and the audience

in a way, it reminded me of seeing Kool and the Gang. like they care enough to perform WELL.

Hall will always get a pass from me because unlike some of his peers he is clearly a music nerd that just loves playing (and listening) to music, he's enthusiastic and committed and has a sense of humor about himself, and that goes a long way.

agree

they opened with Family Man and started his 'hey how ya doin' spiel to the audience and suddenly stopped and looked at Oates and was like, 'fuck, you know what? I think i sang the same verse twice. I did didn't i' *shrugs*
*laughs*

I mean the audience is eating out of his hand just with that.

after they did Sara Smile he looked out at the audience with this huge grin and slapped his hand on the top of the piano like 'goddamn man that was a good time'

My brother saw this same tour and had a similar reaction to you, VG, regarding the stark difference between H&O and TFF. I was pleasantly surprised by how well Roland still sang and performed a few years back; I would love to see H&O top that so soundly

i was admittedly kinda bored during Tears for Fears anyway though... i think a bigger fan would have come away with a more enthusiastic review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_6GrnhUzzw

omg <3

that was awesome! i just discovered that song yesterday when i got the album. gorgeous

ugh that is perfection. live from daryls house is the best thing. think ive seen every episode.

and that single bombed in 1987