George Harrison: Search & Destroy

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I can no longer remember what questions have been asked before. If this has, apologies.

Anyway: does anyone rate Harrison vs other Beatles? Does his solo work beat Beatle work? What was the particular character / achievement of his sound (I think there is a kind of personal character embedded somewhere in his way of stringing chords together)? Which are the best solo LPs and their high points?

the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

pinefox on jungle: Gareth - to answer your questions: no, I don't listen to it; no, it is not nostalgic for me; no, there is no canon, for by my lights it is a sequence of abominations.

how eloquently you sum up George Harrison

gareth, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I have a theory that the Beatles were cursed. Lennon Shot Macca's wife died Harrison was stabbed a short while back by a psychotic antograph hunter/fan/burgler Ringo Starr Is the pinefox George Harrison?

tom, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Harrison was the third-best songwriter in the Beatles, sort of like Uruguay ranks third in a list of who has the most nuclear devices after the USA and Russia. Proof that McCartney wasn't a control freak is that mewling, turgid pomposity like "While My Guitar Noisily and Repititiously Whines" and "Something"(genius lyric - "I don't kno-o- ow, I-I-I don't know") was allowed on their albums.

To answer the question of 'personal style' though, it was probably the slide guitar that justified his existence, "For You Blue" and "Gimme Some Truth" demonstrate this nicely, particularly the latter. Proof that he had a 'style' - the fact that it was parodied (and done better) by Jesse Ed Davis on Lennon's "No. 9 Dream"

dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Always my favorite Beatle; good signal:noise ratio on the Beatles albums (probably enforced quality control, since John & Paul only let him do 1-2 per album); enjoyable pop songs as a solo artist, except "Got My Mind Set on You", which quickly got run into the ground; I even enjoy the T. Wilburys songs where he sings, like "Handle with Care" (awful title) and "End of the Line". Regretting that I passed up Wonderwall on CD a few years ago; always wanted to hear that one...

Search (roughly in order): "Here Comes the Sun", "My Sweet Lord" (shameless 'He's so Fine' steal, but still a great song), "If I Needed Someone", "Love You To", "Within You Without You", "Something", "Blue Jay Way" (pssssychedelic man!!!), "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", "All Those Years Ago", "I Want to Tell You", "For You Blue"

Destroy: "Think for Yourself", "Savoy Truffle" I could live without, "Long Long Long" doesn't ring a bell...

Joe, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I pretty much agree with Joe Lakeside. No, the pinefox != Harrison: I wish I could play with him. Q is an amusing entertainer as ever, but is rather unfair on 'Something' - wasn't it Sinatra who said that was the best song he'd heard in decades?

Harrison overdid the slide, I think - he made it his own, but it occluded his other styles (cf. early Beatles guitar solos). That wasn't quite what I had in mind re. personal sound.

ALL THINGS MUST PASS: key record? One or two rich and strange things on there: 'I Dig Love' (multiple drummers?) and especially the extraordinary (and never-mentioned) 'Awaiting On You All'.

the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Yeah well, Sinatra covered songs by Rod McKuen.

dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I'm sure Harrison is a complete shit and everything, but:

Search:
'Long, Long, Long' (it doesn't ring a bell, it rings a glass)
'Here Comes The Sun' (those opening bars still cheer me up everytime I hear them)
'Old Brown Shoe' (why do I love that 'I want a short haired girl who sometimes wears it twice as long' line so much?)
'Something' (though Frank Sinatra went a bit over the top in his praise)
'I Want To Tell You'
'Think for Yourself'
'While My Guitar Gently Weeps'
'Within You Without You'
'The Inner Light'
'Blue Jay Way'
'Love You To'
'I Me Mine'
Lots of 'All Things Must Pass', (esp 'Isn't It A Pity', 'My Sweet Lord', 'I'd Have You Anytime', 'Wah Wah', 'Awaiting On You All' and the title track)

Destroy:
'Piggies'
'Taxman' (sorry, I know it's a great riff, but I can't listen to it without thinking 'you greedy bastard')
'Only A Northern Song'
'It's All Too Much'
the third disc of 'All Things Must Pass'
Probably everything he released after that.

Nick, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I agree with a lot of that last selection - including the Destroys, actually, esp. 'Taxman' - but might want to defend some later work. Though it might not be easy to do.

I still think 'Something' is fabulous, though Q is right about the occasional lyrical lapse; version on the Anthology is astounding.

the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Didn't we just do beards and the death of rock?

He's the coolest Beatle in Yellow Submarine, what with the standing on mountain peaks and the perpetually wind-swept hair.

fritz, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

It's All Too Much is the most psychadelic all over the place thing the Beatles ever did and is probably worth it just for that. He was a God, but since I don't really know anything after All Things Must Pass (and admittedly, sides 5 and 6 are crap) I don't feel qualified to comment further.

Bill, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

As I seem to say on every Beatles-related thread, 'It's All Too Much' is pretty much the only Fab Four track I can stand to listen to these days (perhaps because it's one of the few tracks that I haven't heard a million times before. But also because it's a funky freak out...)

Andrew L, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Search: "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter". Destroy: "All Things Must Pass".

Search: The Green Party. Destroy: The Natural Law Party.

OK, I know my two "search" objects have nothing to do with Harrison (he *did* bankroll the NLP, didn't he?). But details, details ...

Seriously: search "Long Long Long" (his best song ever IMO), "Only A Northern Song" (I'm sorry, Nick: even *I* love that one!) and "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" even though, as MacDonald sagely notes, its song structure is pure proto-AOR. But destroy a lot of the rest, and destroy his ethos above all: it's the Sham 69 of hippiedom, the ugly meme that discredits all the good stuff.

Robin Carmody, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

"what is life" is my favorite george solo song. great 70s pop-rock.

gg, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

"I don’t know, I don’t know" isn’t a bad lyric. At least it doesn’t sound labored over or stilted like most of George's Beatles lyrics. What's bad is, "I don’t want to leave her now. You know I believe and how." And, "...attracts me like no other lover" might be okay if intended to be from the p.o.v. of an superuptight prig or a virgin. Maybe George was being The Shy Beatle. But I think it's a good song, as pop songs go, in spite of the lyrics.

Curt, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

On the back of George's Beatles trading card, "Favorite music: Hillbilly". That must have been before he discovered India. George was like the gawky pingerpicking sideman for a country singer until the Eastern vogue gave him a motif and an outlet for his awkward self-expression. I liked his short, country-flavored solos on a lot of the early to mid Beatles songs. Search: "I Don't Want to Spoil the Party".

Curt, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Personally, I think All Things Must Pass is better than any of the Beatles albums. I'm not really bashing the Beatles, but I think the Harrison album has a certain majesty & mysticism that the multi- songwriter, genre-hopping Beatles records would never have been able to hold together. It's one man letting rip with a mountain of material that had been stockpiled during his days as, basically, a second tier band member. But it's not an I've Got My Own Album to Make sort of trifle. I think it's the sound of FREEDOM. He sounds like a man who's only going to be able to make this ONE album so he gives himself a wide open space to say something very personal and bold.

I find it life-affirming. Forgetting about the third disc (everyone else does... and rightly so because it sucks eggs), those first two are an ocean of melody.

He would never do anything as good after that album and he never really seemed to care to top it. His ego just kind of disappeared after that (excepting that dopey, calculated hit single in the 80's when his mood probably changed for a time). He seemed happy to be a quiet, religious man knocking out innoucous pop rock records.

There's some good stuff there, though. Tracks like "Blow Away" and "Sue You Sue Me Blues". And his Lennon tribute (after asassination), "All Those Years Ago" is beautiful, I think. The lyrics are kinda cornball, but the melody has a lovely, shy sort of quality, I think.

As for the Beatles work, I find "Something" overrated easy listening pop, but "Blue Jay Way" is fucked up in a really nice, gurgly way. And I agree with the pro-"Long Long Long" camp. It might be my favorite Beatles track. It's very candlelit and ghostly.

I like George Harrison. A lot.

Oliver K., Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Oh, and one strange fact.

When the "My Sweet Lord" case was finally settled, somehow George Harrison not only got to keep the rights to his song, but was ALSO awarded the rights to "He's So Fine". He now owns the song that he was accused of ripping off.

I've no idea how that happened, but it's true.

Oliver K., Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

My all time favorite Harrison song is the rough version of "All Things Must Pass" found on the Anthology 3 disc. Lovely. Incidentally I also love "Isn't It A Pity", but have only heard the song through Galaxie 500's version.

JC, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

the natural law party is fabulous, making a ring around washington dc and meditating all our problems away sounds promising. ralph nader is no fun.

keith, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Watching my favorite Bollywood TV show this morning, I was reminded of Harrison's "The Inner Light" (they were playing a video of a song which sounded very much like it). I'm surprised it's only been mentioned here once. It's a beautiful song with lovely if enigmatic words (inspired by Basho, I think), though perhaps a little too pretty. Perhaps it's my favorite Harrison song because he only sings on it; the rest is an anonymous Indian band It really has little to do with The Beatles as a group--in fact, there are a whole slew of Beatles songs that have little to do with them as a group, starting with "Yesterday." Well, I waited years for a stereo version of "The Inner Light," and I'm glad they finally got around to releasing one. And I think George ought to be given at least a little credit for collaborating with The Rutles.

X. Y. Zedd, Sunday, 2 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

"Sister Golden Hair" was crap tho

dave q, Sunday, 2 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Did he really write 'Spoil The Party'? That one's ace.

I quite like what Oliver K has to say about ATMP, though I can't seriously rate it over the Beatles. But it has some remarkable moments, like I (we) keep saying.

Yes, those 'Something' lyrics are bad. But I think we all agree that pop != just lyrics (though lyrics may, sometimes, be important) - so for me the song is still a great.

Harrison as guitarist before he went weepy / wah-wah: Classic? (The latter style becomes too all-encompassing.)

What about the LP (eponymous?) with the song 'Faster' on it? I loved that song as a kid.

RC: I agree, NLP: terrible dud. But I wouldn't want to write off 60s- 70s Harrison's achievements just cos of that involvement (92?). Where do the Greens come in - was he funding them too, at some stage?

Relevant connection: Handmade Films. Classic element?

the pinefox, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I couldn't defend George Harrison for being 'best solo Beatle' <- which I do believe. I'm not that eloquently versed to beat a koala's pants off. But I enjoyed Wonderwall and All Things Must Pass out of his work. Anyone into self loathing and male angst would *love* All Things Must Pass. It's haunting and immense, layer upon layer of weepy guitar. Cannot... describe... As the years went by the albums got worse (soooo preachy!) until his self titled album in 1979. It was all folksy goodness. Blow Away and Soft Hearted Hana are some good tunes. 80's 'got my mind'- bleech. Then The Wilburys were his last stand and now he has faded into musical obscurity. Well, until he is stabbed or cancerous once more.

Abbei, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Pinefox: I was saying to search 'I Don't Want To Spoil the Party' for George's guitar break. It's a Lennon song, I'm sure, with a McCartney bridge to cut the self pity.

Curt, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Reynard,

I don't *think* Harrison has ever had anything to do with the Green Party. I kind of specified that it wasn't related to the subject of this thread and therefore, arguably, against the rules.

Robin Carmody, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Anyone heard this? Apparently consists of two longish moog pieces.

http://www.8trackheaven.com/Images/georgeharrisonelectronicsound.jpg

Paula G., Monday, 24 February 2003 20:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

oops it was supposed to be a pretty 8-track with childlike drawings called "Electronic Sounds". (Oddly, my trying to post the image here has made it turn into a red x on the original site as well.)

Paula G., Monday, 24 February 2003 20:44 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

George is my favorite Beatle.

Classic tune no one's mentioned: Cheer Down.

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 24 February 2003 20:47 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah you like him cause of his nickname, the coy beatle. Whatever. Anyone else able to shed me some light?

Paula G., Monday, 24 February 2003 20:50 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

search: "what is life"
destroy: the ONJ cover

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 24 February 2003 22:04 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"I have a theory that the Beatles were cursed. Lennon Shot Macca's wife died Harrison was stabbed a short while back by a psychotic antograph hunter/fan/"
...what, are you nuts? They're the world's most famous rock group, they're rich in perpetuity, their solo careers have flourished despite the fact that they're all completely hit-and-miss and might not even have broken above the tide if they weren't ex-Beatles, they did the best drugs and really lived the life, they were involved in the quest for world peace, even their relationships and children are world famous unto legendary... I can't call that cursed. What I CAN say is if you live long enough, something bad's gonna happen to you. Statistically!

matt riedl (veal), Monday, 24 February 2003 22:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
SEARCH: APPLE SCRUFFS

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 23 June 2005 12:58 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Search: "Apple Scruffs," "If Not For You" (better than Dylan's), "What is Life," "My Sweet Lord," "You," "Blow Away," Cloud Nine, the first Wilburys album.

Destroy: every album b/w Dark Horse and Cloud Nine.

Never mentioned: his production work on Ringo's ace "It Don't Come Easy" and co-writing the fantastic "Photograph"; also, his solo on Belinda Carlisle's "Leave A Light On."

Verdict: With some all-too-obvous exceptions, the man needs collaboraters.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 13:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Hey Paula G's pic works now...

Oh, and as for G.Harrison's lyrics...

(From Love you to)
"I'll make luv to you..
If you want me toooo"

Dawn: Knock yourself out, why don't you...

mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 23 June 2005 13:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

What exactly is wrong with any of these lyrics? Too simple or something?

F that!

George wrote "Something" when he was only 25 years old! It and "Here Comes the Sun": 2 of the greatest Beatles tunes ever, period.

roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 23 June 2005 20:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The album "All Things Must Pass" is CLASSIC and ESSENTIAL, even if it isn't perfect. I also rather enjoy the way it's produced, the atmosphere of tracks like "Wah-Wah" & "Awaiting On You All". I've heard this rumour that it sounds even better on vinyl, though I've never had it on vinyl.

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Thursday, 23 June 2005 20:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

A fave Harrisong of mine that doesn't get enough love:

Give Me Love

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Thursday, 23 June 2005 20:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Give Me Love has (as usual for George) a lovely melody, let down (as usual) by a terrible vocal.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 21:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

There are a ton of songs on 33 1/3 through Gone Troppo as good as "Give Me Love" IMO.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 23 June 2005 21:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Time for me and Tim to wrestle over George again.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 22:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Time for me and Tim to wrastle over George again.

(but, yeah, I like "This Song" a lot too.)

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 23 June 2005 22:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"What Is Life" is the pinnacle of George for me. I might even go so far as to say it's the best post Beatles song of all their solo work.

darin (darin), Thursday, 23 June 2005 22:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, "What Is Life" is incredible. I can listen to that one over and over again, and not get sick of it. Fantastic riff, and love the slide guitar on the last verse.

"If Not for You" is another great one off that album. His voice was perfectly suited to sing those lyrics.

Joe (Joe), Friday, 24 June 2005 00:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The next song 'Behind That Locked Door', doesn't break the spell.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:21 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that's awesome. And "Run of the Mill" at the end of that side is a really beautiful song.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:34 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I was just going to say, it really is. I feel like I'm listening to this album properly for the first time in my life. The whole thing feels so precious right now.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

'Art Of Dying' is pretty lame though.

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 16:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Oh I love that one. It's got a great sense of urgency about it.

My fave track off ATMP though is I Live for You, another great melody.

I've been reading a few George interviews recently. I really like the turn of phrase he had and his gently cynical perspective.

Bob Six (bobbysix), Monday, 10 July 2006 20:54 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"blow Away" from 1979 is heavenly. and I think that all the songs on All Things that have huge echo are hampered by same. "Apple Scruffs" is the sound of joy itself.

and no one else on Earth has that sweet sound he got on the slide roundabout 1969.

veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:11 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"blow Away" from 1979 is heavenly. and I think that all the songs on All Things that have huge echo are hampered by same. "Apple Scruffs" is the sound of joy itself.

and no one else on Earth has that sweet sound he got on the slide roundabout 1969 onwards.

veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:12 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"Blow Away" is quite nice, with a lovely slide solo.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:38 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Ton of gems on All Things Must Pass, plenty of boring stuff too. The third disc does have "It's Johnny's Birthday," which is fun. I once cut the whole thing down to a one-CD mix called "I Dig Love" and it was very, very good.

The only other one of his I have is Living In The Material World which is one of those records that almost mechanically alternates between tracks that make you want to put it on and tracks that make you keep flipping past in the bin. "Don't Let Me Wait Too Long" is probably the best thing on there, would have slid in to ATMP very very nicely. And of course "Give Me Love (Give Me Peace On Earth)" which is short on lyrics but is lovely and head-sticky, and I like his vocal on it, so hey.

One night I randomly caught the drag-racing-themed video clip for the later "Faster" on VH1 Classic. That's probably worth hearing at least once - the "Faster than a bullet from a gun!" line is really cool, unfortunately the song overall is really aimless and dull. I fear that probably describes a lot of the 70s and 80s Harrison, which is why I haven't really delved much further, and this thread isn't giving me much inspiration to. Surely ILX has at least one rabid defender of Extra Texture?

Oh, and as for his Beatles work: his own compositions are about an even mix of very good ("Taxman," "Something," "Savoy Truffle") and embarassingly bad ("I Need You," "Piggies"). His guitar playing on the other hand is consistently essential, and fun to listen for because you can hear it getting better and better with each successive album. Get to Revolver and he pretty much epitomizes what I think rock guitarists should play like and sound like. Not such a fan of the slide stuff later on but it has its moments.

Unheralded greatness: George as backing vocalist! He's the Michael Anthony of the 60s, the absolutely essential ingredient in so many songs I don't know how to pick an example. "I'm Down" is probably the best use of him as the straight man. His lead vocals are sometimes awkward, sometimes so perfect you can't imagine the song without them - see "Don't Bother Me," "Love You To." Also check "Roll Over Beethoven" as it appears on Live At The Hollywood Bowl, where he has McCartney putting some enthusiasm into backing him up, it's great.

In short - I think the conventional wisdom is right. One great album (near excellent), inconsistent as a songwriter outside of that, but very consistently perfect as guitarist and team-member where-ever he appears.

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Monday, 10 July 2006 22:26 (twelve years ago) Permalink

With the exception of choice excerpts from ATMP and most of Cloud Nine, George was rarely interesting for more than two tracks per album.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 July 2006 22:42 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Alfred, let me guess when those rare instances were! I will guess 33 1/3, the self-titled album from '79, and...Gone Troppo!

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:51 (twelve years ago) Permalink

You know me too well.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 00:00 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"Don't Let Me Wait Too Long" is probably the best thing on there"

omg I love love love this song

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 00:52 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"Faster" is beautiful.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 00:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

lol. I love you, Tim.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 01:20 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"I Need You" is "embarrassingly bad"?

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 01:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

It's great, especially the 2nd parts of the verses ("Please come on back to me" etc.) and the bridges ("Oh yes, you told me you don't want my lovin' anymore" etc.). First of their two guitars with volume pedal songs (I would assume, yes?), the second being "Wait."

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 02:19 (twelve years ago) Permalink

...And "Run of the Mill" at the end of that side is a really beautiful song.

Thank you, Tim! Don't know if it's because of the horns, acoustic 12 string, sad lyrics or what, but this song has always been my favorite from ATMP.

xpost: kyle, I think this was not George (Martin's) shining moment. I like the slow tremelo Harrison used here, but it seems to be overplayed with at the console. wtf do I know? I do enjoy the song though.

jim wentworth (wench), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 02:19 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Mr. Wentworth has it with the over-fiddling on "I Need You." OK, maybe it's not "embarassingly bad," and I do agree with Tim that the bridge is quite good. I just find it a terribly limp performance - "You don't realize how much I need you..." and the guitar effectively goes "plop, plop." You can practically hear the instrument drooping.

For point of comparison, check out "Another Girl," where he tears it up on the same kind of call-and-response gap. "For I have got" BRANDOWN DA DOWN DOWN... etc. Now obviously "I Need You" is a different sort of song but it just feels as if so little energy was brought to bear on it. In George's defense, I would suspect that this was more for lack of interest from the other Beatles/George Martin than from himself...

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 02:40 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Isn't that the volume pedal on the guitar? That's what I always thought it was. You hear it on "Wait," too.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 02:53 (twelve years ago) Permalink

(I think it's a cool effect, fwiw._

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 02:53 (twelve years ago) Permalink

OK, I just went back and listened to it, and it passes the "me singing along to the whole thing" test so it's not THAT bad. Could have been so much better though. "Piggies" is probably his worst Beatle number after all...

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 02:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Tim, it sometimes just sounds weak on the downbeat to me in that arrangement. It misses, in other words. And that's probably a little hard to control anyway. But, yes, I like the effect too.

jim wentworth (wench), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 03:03 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Search:

Title song from Dark Horse LP
"You" from Extra Texture
whole 33 1/3 LP
whole s/t LP from 1979
"Blood from a Clone" and "All Those Years Ago" and "Teardrops" from Somewhere in England LP (and I wish they'd put out those four tracks that got edited out when the record company had him rework the album - "Lay His Head" and those)
whole Gone Troppo LP

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 03:31 (twelve years ago) Permalink

"i need you" is great, love the pedal, really love the backing vocals on there for some reason, love how it and harrison in particular just collapse at the end like he's realizing the moment's passed.

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 04:46 (twelve years ago) Permalink

All Things Must Pass is really a classic album, I got into that in '99 and still pull it out now and again. I've given some of his other albums a try and they just didn't make any impression on me.

Lenny Koggins (Bimble...), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 04:55 (twelve years ago) Permalink

i like george.

but "love you to" is one of the songs that absolutely spoils revolver for me. the lyric "make love all day long/make love singing songs" makes me laugh uproariously!

cate flamingo (cate flamingo), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 05:49 (twelve years ago) Permalink

It's great, especially the 2nd parts of the verses ("Please come on back to me" etc.) and the bridges ("Oh yes, you told me you don't want my lovin' anymore" etc.). First of their two guitars with volume pedal songs (I would assume, yes?), the second being "Wait."
-- Tim Ellison

Actually, Tim, I believe "Yes It Is" also employs a volume pedal. And I'm pretty sure "Love You To" does as well.

Nice to see the fantastic "What Is Life" get so much love here.

Monty Von Byonga (Monty Von Byonga), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 06:15 (twelve years ago) Permalink

(x-post)

yeah - that lyric's obviously ridiculous when you can get the whole thing over in 20 minutes maximum, including foreplay, right?

My guess is that George was already becoming well-immersed in Indian art and traditions by this time. In Indian art you can indeed see conjoined couples singing to each other. And the Kama Sutra, of course...

Bob Six (bobbysix), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 06:16 (twelve years ago) Permalink

For me, "I Need You" is far and away his best song, great melody and a light touch. The later stuff like "Something" and "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" is just awful crap.

Not mentioned so far: Search: his lead playing on a lot of the Hamburg album, really tough jagged lines, like he's using a razor blade instead of a pick, the best he ever sounded.

Burr (Burr), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 03:29 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Hamburg album? What's this? Color me curious.

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 04:28 (twelve years ago) Permalink

x-x-post: conceded. i'm mainly laughing because i can't walk and chew gum at the same time, let alone sing and have sex.

cate flamingo (cate flamingo), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 05:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Yeah, it is a bit of a ridiculous lyric - I couldn't resist a cheap comment.

That lyric reminds me of those mid-late 90s sex instruction shows that were suddenly everywhere on UK TV, with presenters like Toyah Wilcox (no, really) saying things like:

"Why not try singing to your partner when you make love?

It used to popular in indian culture - we're trying to bring it back."

Bob Six (bobbysix), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 06:03 (twelve years ago) Permalink

but "love you to" is one of the songs that absolutely spoils revolver for me. the lyric "make love all day long/make love singing songs" makes me laugh uproariously

The Trypes did a really good version of this. In typical Feelies format, the lyrics kind of blend into the rest of the song.

"Love You To" > "Within You Without You"

mike a (mike a), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 14:10 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
I assume the Hamburg album is the Tony Sheridan record.

No love for "don't bother me"?

kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 19 August 2006 20:05 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Well, I at least said that his vocals on it were "so perfect you can't imagine the song without them," but I suppose that isn't so much praise for the song itself. I like it, even though I think the bridge is a bit strained. It's all about that low, totally sullen kiss-off of a chorus.

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 19 August 2006 22:45 (twelve years ago) Permalink

...now he has faded into musical obscurity. Well, until he is stabbed or cancerous once more.

Ouch.

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Saturday, 19 August 2006 22:57 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I remember when a friend played me "It's Johnny's Birthday." I thought they were singing "This song is worthless." I agreed.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Sunday, 20 August 2006 01:37 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

For a short time I had a cassette of his "Dark Horse Years" greatest hits, until the tape got screwed up at the very beginning of a long Greyhound ride. Some great stuff on there - "Gone Troppo," "Crackerbox Palace," "Here Comes The Moon," "Blow Away." Could really do without the 'thoughtful' stuff, especially the 'all your money doesn't make you happy' trip on "Cheer Down." But some really nice material - wish it had had "Faster" on it but hey.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 12 August 2008 15:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Crackerbox Palace" may have been the first music video I've ever seen...I recall George popping out of a pram which was being pushed by a woman with John Lennon glasses...

henry s, Tuesday, 12 August 2008 17:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

I still own that Dark Horse tape; it's all you need own from the era. "Cheer Down" is terrific -- god, the guy needed collaborators.

"Blow Away" would make a solo Beatles CD-R comp.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 12 August 2008 17:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

Proof that McCartney wasn't a control freak is that mewling, turgid pomposity like "While My Guitar Noisily and Repititiously Whines" and "Something"(genius lyric - "I don't kno-o- ow, I-I-I don't know") was allowed on their albums.

"Something" has been recorded in, what is it?, 300-400 different versions or Something. So I guess there must be Something to it....

Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 12 August 2008 21:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

So, if there is any song that summarizes George Harrison solo it's "That Is All."

On the Living In the Material World, it's this histrionic atrocity with one of the man's worst vocals ever (and that's saying something). Witness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTb0SurR2p4

Thankfully, I got to know the song as the lead track on Harry Nilsson's 1976 ...That's the Way It Is record, which reveals the song to be one of the best, most lovely things George ever wrote. Witness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9jmq_8oTLI

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 04:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

i like that harrison vocal
xpost

buzza, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 05:54 (seven years ago) Permalink

five months pass...

this is weird

http://www.youtube.com/user/pizzatimeplayer

akm, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 00:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

But destroy a lot of the rest, and destroy his ethos above all: it's the Sham 69 of hippiedom, the ugly meme that discredits all the good stuff.

― Robin Carmody, Friday, August 31, 2001 12:00 AM (9 years ago)

wonder what the hell this was supposed to mean.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 02:49 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think it was an accusation that there was too much dogma in his lyrics.

timellison, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 02:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

Does Robin post here anymore? He was all over ILM in its early days -- and he has a nice British name.

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 02:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

A musician friend and I discussed George on Saturday; he was even more violent in his dismissal. "The guy's almost as bad a crank as Lou Reed, except he had the fortune never to record Berlin.

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 03:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

I remember when a friend played me "It's Johnny's Birthday." I thought they were singing "This song is worthless." I agreed.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, August 19, 2006 9:

lol

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 03:04 (seven years ago) Permalink

Remove Living in the Material World and Somewhere in England from his discography and I don't think anyone ever makes that accusation, Alfred.

timellison, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 03:12 (seven years ago) Permalink

A musician friend and I discussed George on Saturday; he was even more violent in his dismissal. "The guy's almost as bad a crank as Lou Reed, except he had the fortune never to record Berlin.

I thought George came off really well in the Anthology series - maybe a bit dismissive of The Beatles legacy, but he seemed to really have good humor about it.

Darin, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 05:04 (seven years ago) Permalink

He had moments of Cranky Old Dad that mitigated Ringo and Paul's sentimentality -- gestures and remarks you imagine John would have made -- but I always remember this moment when the three are jamming on stools and Paul, obviously having a ball, says, "Another one?" and George aims the briefest of evil scowls at him, as if he's thinking, "It's not 1969, motherfucker."

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 11:29 (seven years ago) Permalink

Download zip file of "Beware of Abkco", solo demos for "All Things Must Pass." Love this, could even bring some of the haters around:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YLWVTLIV

thirdalternative, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 13:18 (seven years ago) Permalink

I watched the Concert for Bangladesh recently & was pretty shocked at how thin George's voice was. I like his Beatles songs from "If I Needed Someone" on (though not before that), but haven't ever gotten into anything post-Beatles (not for lack of trying, esp. with All Things Must Pass). But that live set, yeesh; George's vocals sound like hard work & that's no fun to hear, especially when the singing is so cringeworthy otherwise. It's a drag, isn't it?

Euler, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 13:36 (seven years ago) Permalink

That's exactly my problem with most of his solo albums: he can't sing worth a damn, which makes his homilies a chore to sit through, and he's not resourceful enough a producer to arrange his songs in a way that mitigates the preaching.

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 13:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

Remove Living in the Material World and Somewhere in England from his discography . .

The former has two of my favorite George songs, "Give Me Love (Give Me Peace On Earth)" and "Don't Let Me Wait Too Long."

he can't sing worth a damn

Given his multitracked backing vocals all over "All Things Must Pass," some of which are pretty dense and complex, this is madness.

Michael Bay, CEO of Transformers (Phil D.), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 13:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

You just made my point though: the vocals were multitracked and produced by Phil Spector. George needs help.

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 13:46 (seven years ago) Permalink

There's a gulf of difference between "can't sing worth a damn" and "requires a producer's guidance."

Michael Bay, CEO of Transformers (Phil D.), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 13:50 (seven years ago) Permalink

When I hear him mangle the line "you made me such a big star" on the Bangladesh "Wah Wah", I'm inclined to say "can't sing worth a damn".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDCP4UeXgw8

Euler, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 13:55 (seven years ago) Permalink

Phil, I only mentioned those two albums because I think they might have the heaviest concentration of the type of lyrics that were being criticized. No one's ever going to say they can't take Gone Troppo because it's too heavy-handed.

And Alfred, as ever, I disagree with your producer stance. Phil Spector is one thing, but I really like the sound of the Dark Horse-era albums. And there are collaborators on those records - all the people who play on them.

timellison, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:13 (seven years ago) Permalink

What's the name of that Harrisong playing at the very end of the Time Bandits movie?

t**t, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:22 (seven years ago) Permalink

"Dream Away" - one of his greatest!

timellison, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:23 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeeesss!

t**t, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

Well, it's like "All things must pass", I quite like the first third, but the second gets very "more of the same" but more heavydraggy.

(The "jam" album I don't mind, actually!)

Mark G, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:30 (seven years ago) Permalink

Well, I do mind the jam album. A lot. Then again I got a whole lotta love for most of what comes before it. On ATMP.

Wonderwall is one very decent soundtrack too.

t**t, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:33 (seven years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'd call it the very definition of "overlooked"

Mark G, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:38 (seven years ago) Permalink

Alfred's constant dismissals of George reminiscent of famous talent scout putdown of Fred Astaire

Retweet From The Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

He had moments of Cranky Old Dad that mitigated Ringo and Paul's sentimentality -- gestures and remarks you imagine John would have made -- but I always remember this moment when the three are jamming on stools and Paul, obviously having a ball, says, "Another one?" and George aims the briefest of evil scowls at him, as if he's thinking, "It's not 1969, motherfucker."

It seems like George took the opportunity of the Anthology to assert himself and stand up to Paul's condescension. He insisted on Jeff Lynne to produce, shut things down when a third Threetles song wasn't working out, and vetoed "Carnival Of Light" on Anthology 2 (that last one rankles, though).

According to Peter Doggett's indispensable You Never Give Me Your Money, George only did the Anthology because he was nearly bankrupt from his film company and a shady business manager or two.

shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:36 (seven years ago) Permalink

George is my favorite Beatle

a man is only a guy (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:50 (seven years ago) Permalink

Bangladesh album is a mess though, I'm not gonna defend that. Dylan's version of Maggie's Farm from that is pretty fun tho

a man is only a guy (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:51 (seven years ago) Permalink

tho

a man is only a guy (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:51 (seven years ago) Permalink

Jim Keltner and Ringo doubling their drum parts during the Bangladesh Concert is one of the alternately most pointless/entertaining things about ti

a man is only a guy (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:53 (seven years ago) Permalink

When I hear him mangle the line "you made me such a big star" on the Bangladesh "Wah Wah", I'm inclined to say "can't sing worth a damn".

I've honestly never seen Bangladesh straight through, just snippets here and there (must rectify) but damn if that youtube didn't give me chills. I didn't hear that line (or any of his singing on that song) as mangled; I think he sounds ragged but right.

Have not gotten over my dancing phase (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:53 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah it's not like he Amy Winehouse'd it or anything

a man is only a guy (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:54 (seven years ago) Permalink

George stuff I like from the seventies:

"Blow Away" (who needs Macca when you've got this chorus?)
"This Song" (not very funny, but he sounds like he's enjoying himself over this 'ere beat)
"Don't Let Me Wait Too Long" (a God song about being real horny; one of the few times he understood Al Green)

The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

I've honestly never seen Bangladesh straight through, just snippets here and there (must rectify) but damn if that youtube didn't give me chills. I didn't hear that line (or any of his singing on that song) as mangled; I think he sounds ragged but right.

Also, he seems pretty at-ease and comfortable for a guy who hadn't been on a concert stage in five years.

shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

George is maybe the best thing about this tune (apart from the lyrics)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQwWp98IuGE

a man is only a guy (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 17:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

His dual slide guitar solo on "Day After Day" is great, too.

Darin, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 18:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

I've always had a soft spot for this drunken hootenanny of a b-side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lum7Pow-vTA

Have not gotten over my dancing phase (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 18:28 (seven years ago) Permalink

If I haven't already mentioned it upthread, Simply Shady from Dark Horse is one of those snake charmer melodies he did so beautifully, though never better than Beware of Darkness

Dr X O'Skeleton, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 19:09 (seven years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Martin Scorsese documentary airing on HBO in October:

http://www.georgeharrison.com/#/news/archive/201107/george-harrison-documentary-and-book-announced

timellison, Friday, 15 July 2011 03:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Trailer for the movie.

timellison, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 01:53 (seven years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...

Pete Prown? I thought that was a 'fakey' name, but it seems not

Mark G, Monday, 6 August 2012 15:45 (six years ago) Permalink

Wonderwall is one very decent soundtrack too.
― t**t, Wednesday, June 29, 2011 10:33 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I'd call it the very definition of "overlooked"
― Mark G, Wednesday, June 29, 2011 10:38 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM. So good.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 6 August 2012 16:32 (six years ago) Permalink

some of the wonderwall stuff really invent the "wes anderson" vibe, particularly mark devo's stuff on the rushmore soundtrack

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 6 August 2012 16:54 (six years ago) Permalink

I don't know what's being particularly identified as "slick and overproduced" about the 1979 self-titled album or why a song like "Love Comes to Everyone" is singled out as an "overt stab at polished LA pop." That album sounds a lot like the production on the other albums from that period to me. Not exactly the same, but nothing radically different.

I also think it's too easy to make assumptions based on his personality that lead to claims about how "alienated by the current pop scene" he was. "Blood from a Clone" strikes me as far less serious than the writer makes it out to be (he says it's "supposedly his savage commentary on the state of popular music") and actually remarkable for how of its time it sounds, at least in Harrison's own way. It's an easy rival of "Coming Up" for eccentric older guy new wave with some cool funky bass.

"Wake Up My Love" from Gone Troppo is another one. The synthesizers on that are like something you'd hear in an Italo tune.

timellison, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:29 (six years ago) Permalink

I like "Love Comes to Everyone" and disagree with how he tosses "dated" to signify something he doesn't like. He could've criticized him in other ways.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:35 (six years ago) Permalink

seven months pass...

Just listening to the iTunes clips of the '06 Living in the Material World and it is awfully good sounding.

timellison, Saturday, 16 March 2013 05:08 (five years ago) Permalink

Living in the Material World remaster, I meant to say.

timellison, Saturday, 16 March 2013 05:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Harrison was the third-best songwriter in the Beatles, sort of like Uruguay ranks third in a list of who has the most nuclear devices after the USA and Russia. Proof that McCartney wasn't a control freak is that mewling, turgid pomposity like "While My Guitar Noisily and Repititiously Whines" and "Something"(genius lyric - "I don't kno-o- ow, I-I-I don't know") was allowed on their albums.

― dave q, Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:00 PM (11 years ago)

even after these all years i feel compelled to say Fuck you dave q, fuck yoooooouuuu

( ( ( ( ( ( ( (Z S), Saturday, 16 March 2013 05:13 (five years ago) Permalink

:)

t**t, Saturday, 16 March 2013 10:58 (five years ago) Permalink

the self-titled is a gorgeous album. such a strong run of simple, beautiful songs on there. it stands up bloody well.

Esteban Buttiérrez (Autumn Almanac), Saturday, 16 March 2013 11:55 (five years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

I just learned "Think For Yourself" on guitar. It's crazy! It's not a song from 1965, it's like something off Nevermind. There some proto-Devo in this as well.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 1 November 2014 17:52 (four years ago) Permalink

The good things that we can have if we close our eyes it's a beautiful world

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 1 November 2014 17:53 (four years ago) Permalink

Wonder what it would sound like if he saved it for ATMP.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 1 November 2014 17:54 (four years ago) Permalink

He should have rerecorded all his Beatles songs instead of the "Apple Jam."

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 1 November 2014 17:58 (four years ago) Permalink

I could listen to the first four seconds of Think For Yourself over and over.

pplains, Saturday, 1 November 2014 18:02 (four years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...

Everything on Spotify, including Electronic Sound and Wonderwall. Albums with bonus tracks.

timellison, Friday, 16 October 2015 22:22 (three years ago) Permalink

Nice!

Wonderwall really is a treat. Electronic Sounds is.... less entertaining.

Darin, Saturday, 17 October 2015 14:55 (three years ago) Permalink

His catalogue is now on Apple Music as well.

Luna Schlosser, Saturday, 17 October 2015 15:11 (three years ago) Permalink

Lotta stuff grayed out as unavailable on his overview page, but I started clicking on it and it played anyway.

Exit, pursued by Yogi Berra (WilliamC), Saturday, 17 October 2015 15:18 (three years ago) Permalink

Wonderwall is so great. The move is fun too. And I love this nearly lost Harrison-produced masterwork:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVRmdrM0Mmg

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 17 October 2015 17:20 (three years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Finally grabbed a cheapie Gone Troppo, after all these years of wondering. Man is it a silly, inessential sort of record. So many songs that just feel like "I'm a musician, I suppose writing songs is what I do, right?" in the most canonical rocker-at-40 sort of way. And yet kind of lovable for precisely that reason? Still, there are these flashes of joy in the playing and singing here and there, amid the sea of forgettable and nearly-hookless songs, so I don't think this will be my last time putting it on. I think the thing I liked the most (besides the title track and "Wake Up My Love," which I already knew) was the instrumental (?) track somewhere on Side One.

Frump 'n' Dump (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 21 November 2015 19:00 (three years ago) Permalink

Well, for starters, I might actually think "Dream Away" is the best song he ever wrote. But the record in general is lovable in my opinion - some really good songwriting and a nice production/sound. I like all of Side One. "That's the Way It Goes" is probably the best of the kind of mellow, non-"Dream Away," non-instrumentsl, non-early-'60s-cover tunes he wrote for the album (and there's a really nice version of it on Concert for George). "Mystical One" is probably my second favorite of those, or the title track, if that qualifies.

timellison, Saturday, 21 November 2015 19:40 (three years ago) Permalink

Might be my favorite of the Dark Horse albums. That one or 33 1/3.

timellison, Saturday, 21 November 2015 19:41 (three years ago) Permalink

Start up the cement mixer.

timellison, Saturday, 21 November 2015 19:44 (three years ago) Permalink

I find 33 1/3 to be one of his best post-All Things Must Pass records, and Gone Troppo to be thoroughly awful - the very definition of a contractual obligation record. There's some good moments on most of Harrison's solo records, but my god did he sound like he was phoning it in at times.

Turrican, Saturday, 21 November 2015 19:55 (three years ago) Permalink

I haven't heard it, but noticed that "Circles" was written (or started) in 1968. Kind of amazing that in the early 80s he still had Beatles-era songs to pick from to fill out his records.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 21 November 2015 20:00 (three years ago) Permalink

Yeah there's a beatles demo of circles.

Οὖτις, Saturday, 21 November 2015 20:33 (three years ago) Permalink

Yup, it's on the White Album demos you'll find floating around the internet somewhere.

Turrican, Saturday, 21 November 2015 20:37 (three years ago) Permalink

Isn't McCartney II also a "silly, inessential" record? I like Gone Troppo as much as I like McCartney II.

timellison, Saturday, 21 November 2015 21:12 (three years ago) Permalink

I usually found one standout on all the later albums, like Simply Shady on Dark Horse

Dr X O'Skeleton, Saturday, 21 November 2015 21:28 (three years ago) Permalink

Yeah, 'Simply Shady' is a good Harrisong, sadly marred by the weak vocal like the entire album.

Turrican, Saturday, 21 November 2015 22:02 (three years ago) Permalink

That OPP Dark Horse comp from 1989 creates the impression that those albums are stronger than they are; nevertheless, I still like "That's The Way It Goes" though. "Wake Up My Love" stinks of I-need-a-hit-what's-this-synth desperation.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 November 2015 22:13 (three years ago) Permalink

Yeah I'm loathe to assign motives to artists, but from the sound of the records, it doesn't seem like he had much respect for new wave at all, cf Paul

brimstead, Saturday, 21 November 2015 23:01 (three years ago) Permalink

what's-this-synth desperation

I think you're projecting. He made a Moog album before the Beatles broke up. He's credited as playing synthesizer on "Dear One" and "Crackerbox Palace," Billy Preston as playing one on "Beautiful Girl," and both Preston and Gary Wright credited as playing them on "See Yourself," all on 33 1/3. Steve Winwood and Neil Larsen are credited as playing Moogs on the self-titled album from '79. Five people are credited as playing synthesizers on the Somewhere in England album: Harrison, Larsen, Gary Brooker, Al Kooper, and Mike Moran. Moran may have been the big synth guy on Gone Troppo, too, though Harrison and Preston are also credited with playing them.

timellison, Sunday, 22 November 2015 00:53 (three years ago) Permalink

What's this post desperation

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 22 November 2015 04:18 (three years ago) Permalink

What's that supposed to mean? Looks like an anti-intellectual gesture to me. And a denial of your silly characterization.

timellison, Sunday, 22 November 2015 04:24 (three years ago) Permalink

Here Comes the Sun got synth all over it

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 22 November 2015 05:39 (three years ago) Permalink

I'm just messing with you, Tim. I'm aware that Harrison's used synths before, but "Wake Up My Love" sounds like a desperate attempt to be current, a limp "Gloria" (Laura Branigan, not Van Morrison).

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 22 November 2015 12:37 (three years ago) Permalink

I could believe that there was maybe some kind of record company push to get a more "contemporary" sound, rather than Harrison not having an interest in synths as such. It's an okay song IMO but definitely a one-riff deal without a lot to say. To be fair, he scored a huge hit on a similar formula with "Got My Mind Set On You" so who knows. Listening to the album through again, louder this time, to see if anything else jumps out at me.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 16:11 (three years ago) Permalink

http://orig09.deviantart.net/aead/f/2011/191/7/d/droppo___321_by_futuredami-d3lkztm.png

Droppo
Gone Droppo
Droppo
It's time you know I gone Droppo
Oh!

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 16:24 (three years ago) Permalink

I could believe that there was maybe some kind of record company push to get a more "contemporary" sound

Warners initially rejected Somewhere in England, so it wouldn't be surprising if they kept the pressure on for this one. Equally unsurprising for Harrison to be all, "You want contemporary? Here ya go, some cheesy synths! Have fun trying to promote my lack of effort!"

It was also apparently the inspiration for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxhb34_iGg

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 16:31 (three years ago) Permalink

lol

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 16:33 (three years ago) Permalink

Yeah, idk, I feel okay about calling this inessential - and unfortunately in the bad way. I love a lot of inessential McCartney records but George just doesn't have the tune-finding knack or range of oddball arrangements to make otherwise hookless (if amiable and well-intentioned) songs interesting or easy on the ear. Most of this just goes by without me noticing at all. Several times he seems to hope that if he repeats the chorus enough it'll become memorable or powerful. It works on "Dream Away" but not the others I fear. YMMV though!

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 17:36 (three years ago) Permalink

I love a lot of inessential McCartney records but George just doesn't have the tune-finding knack or range of oddball arrangements to make otherwise hookless (if amiable and well-intentioned) songs interesting or easy on the ear.

Yeah, that's the key difference between them. McCartney can just whip up a delightful (if utterly inconsequential) tune like it's nothing, but George seemed to treat songwriting like a chore.

Similarly with their approaches to the guitar: McCartney could tear off a blinding solo without breaking a sweat, while George would labor for hours over creating The Perfect Solo (in the case of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," he spent eight hours trying to get a "weeping" backwards guitar effect only to say, "Nuts to this, I'll just get Eric Clapton.")

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 17:47 (three years ago) Permalink

Well, tbh I can dig spending a working day trying to figure out the sound/form of a guitar solo! But yeah in general George doesn't strike me as someone that just thinks of great new songs every day; often it feels more like he has something he wants to say and is looking for a song to do it in. Which is also fine! Just that when he doesn't have something he wants to say you start to wonder why he's even in the studio. Whereas McCartney is clearly in love with the idea of being a rock musician, making albums and recording things, often to the point where he annoys the shit out of his collaborators (including, notably, George, though of course there are other issues between them). My impression of George's solo career benefits enormously from that first big, excellent record, significantly formed as everyone knows out of songs slowly accumulated on the backburner over a half-decade span. I don't mean this as a slam; some people's talents and way of approaching music just don't align with the very specific and arbitrary task of cranking out an LP every year.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 17:55 (three years ago) Permalink

he spent eight hours trying to get a "weeping" backwards guitar effect

I find this endearing myself but then I am also a Kevin Shields fan

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 17:59 (three years ago) Permalink

You guys, I'm listening to "Crackerbox Palace" right now and the arrangement on this is so freaking amazing.

I won't keep arguing the point about "Wake Up My Love" other than to say that I don't recall reading anything about continued record label pressure after Somewhere in England or about it being a reaction. I don't think it's a stretch to say that it's in the vein of things like "Crackerbox Palace."

timellison, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 18:54 (three years ago) Permalink

Several times he seems to hope that if he repeats the chorus enough it'll become memorable or powerful.

Totally otm. Just count how many times he repeats the chorus of Blow Away next time you hear it. George was pretty economical when hitting those three-minute quotas.

Darin, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 20:42 (three years ago) Permalink

But yeah in general George doesn't strike me as someone that just thinks of great new songs every day; often it feels more like he has something he wants to say and is looking for a song to do it in. Which is also fine! Just that when he doesn't have something he wants to say you start to wonder why he's even in the studio.

George's not regarding his career as a job is one of his most charming qualities. The periods when he released unfocused, indifferent albums were brief (1974-1975 and 1981-1982 really). Forced to think of record making as a career, he wilted, as one might when the sullenness that served as a muse stopped rewarding the audience's attention, and the Indian philosophy that brought him peace couldn't inspire many good songs. In my youth George was my favorite Beatle because he was stifled, unappreciated, whatever; I adore Cloud Nine and the Wilburys records, especially since they validate the claim made by Tom Petty and others that George was a riot to be around; that it took the presence of Paul and Beatle chatter to provoke the sour, rather nasty guy beneath the surface (Cubans call this sort of person pesado).

When it came to collaborations, however, George deserves credit: as producer and enabler for Ringo’s best singles and Badfinger’s “Day By Day” and "Sour Milk Sea"; as player of solos as scabrous as his wit on John Lennon’s “How Do You Sleep.” With the exception of his great friend Bob Dylan, the sixties never produced a less sentimental relic(“in Beatles lore alone, he’s something of a relief,” Bill Wyman wrote in 2011).

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 22:19 (three years ago) Permalink

Yeah, George was wonderful, even if he'd accomplished nothing else, for his refusal to play along with 60s mythos, Beatles mythos, all that stuff. His Anthology segments made a big impression on me as a teen and maybe helped inoculate me against the too-earnest love of everything Sixties to which teens like myself are otherwise susceptible. On Haight-Ashbury: "...it was a bunch of spotty kids getting high." On LSD itself: "I put it under a microscope and it just looked like little rope and I said I'm not putting that in my brain anymore." On the adrenaline rush of Beatlemania: "We couldn't really do much."

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 22:44 (three years ago) Permalink

You guys ever hear this? I never knew this had been put out as a Wonderwall bonus track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N65kPFtxDis

timellison, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:08 (three years ago) Permalink

it was ona Beatles single so yes

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:10 (three years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a82-7ozS_MI

Watching this video cold, you'd think George had always been the leader. Ringo and Paul defer to him at the table.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:12 (three years ago) Permalink

Οὖτις, - alternate take, no vocals

timellison, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:14 (three years ago) Permalink

oh right

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:15 (three years ago) Permalink

although apart from all the talking at the beginning it sure sounds like the released take sans vocals

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:16 (three years ago) Permalink

It does. It just struck me listening to it that it's a cool composition.

timellison, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 23:30 (three years ago) Permalink

hahaha George references the Buddy Rich tapes!

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 25 November 2015 00:44 (three years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...

My list of his best.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 November 2016 17:44 (two years ago) Permalink

right on

brimstead, Thursday, 3 November 2016 18:31 (two years ago) Permalink

Fish On The Sand!! **high five**

Extremely underrated track.

and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Thursday, 3 November 2016 18:35 (two years ago) Permalink

Not bad

Plastico-Tico no Fubá (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 3 November 2016 18:40 (two years ago) Permalink

Fish On The Sand!! **high five**

Extremely underrated track.

― and this section is called boner (Phil D.)

the first side of Cloud Nine really

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 November 2016 19:19 (two years ago) Permalink

Hmm. In the words of Shakespeare, "To listen to a lesser Harrison LP or to cheese grate my nipples off? That is the question."

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Thursday, 3 November 2016 19:39 (two years ago) Permalink

"Handle me with care"?

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 3 November 2016 19:40 (two years ago) Permalink

Beware of Darkness is the song that haunted me, ever since I borrowed the triple album off my friend G as a teenager and taped my favourites. There is something about that wailing guitar as the flat 3rd kicks in, and George's almost whispered vocal, the sudden joy of "dancing down the sidewalk"; you forget the sermons then.

Dr X O'Skeleton, Friday, 4 November 2016 23:41 (two years ago) Permalink

oh and "take kurr, bewurr"

Dr X O'Skeleton, Friday, 4 November 2016 23:42 (two years ago) Permalink

One thing I will say about Harrison's songwriting is that he certainly could put together interesting - sometimes unorthodox - chord progressions that, when they worked, they really worked.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Friday, 4 November 2016 23:59 (two years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...

"Love comes to everyone" is smooth love

calstars, Saturday, 14 October 2017 03:55 (one year ago) Permalink

"Here comes the moon" is also great, surprised not mentioned yet?

calstars, Saturday, 14 October 2017 03:58 (one year ago) Permalink

"Love comes to everyone" is smooth love

― calstars, Friday, October 13, 201

The way he sings the verse-to-melody release in this trance-like lockstep is comforting

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 October 2017 05:13 (one year ago) Permalink

<3 Good album!

timellison, Saturday, 14 October 2017 06:02 (one year ago) Permalink

There's some good stuff on those Harrison records amongst the phoning-it-in dullness.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 14 October 2017 06:38 (one year ago) Permalink

otm

used to own a tape of "Extra Texture" and had some good times listening to it even if the album is a blur

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:22 (one year ago) Permalink

'You' and 'This Guitar (Can't Keep From Crying)' are good, even with the chipmunk vocals on the former and the self-referential title of the latter. Tasty Moog bass, though. The rest of the album is a snoozefest, though.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

The former Beatle members reference their former band so much in their solo careers it's almost embarrassing.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Always felt that the Dark Horse albums were a big uptick from the last few Apple records. Much better sound and I don't think there are many sub-par songs on 33 1/3 or the self-titled album. Somewhere in England is a little less successful maybe but he comes back nicely with Gone Troppo.

timellison, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:52 (one year ago) Permalink

These days All Things Must Pass, Thirty Three & 1/3 and a compilation of the highlights of the rest is all I need.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:59 (one year ago) Permalink

"Soft Touch" is another really good one on that album that maybe doesn't get mentioned much.

timellison, Saturday, 14 October 2017 21:20 (one year ago) Permalink

The former Beatle members reference their former band so much in their solo careers it's almost embarrassing.

― more Allegro-like (Turrican)

if i'd been in the beatles i'd sure as hell never let anybody forget it.

bob lefse (rushomancy), Sunday, 15 October 2017 00:07 (one year ago) Permalink

was there ever a solo beatles tracks poll?

niels, Sunday, 15 October 2017 08:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Like anyone would have forgotten it. It's like Billy Corgan telling everyone that he did most of the playing on Smashing Pumpkins records, like yeah we already know and we get it.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 18:16 (one year ago) Permalink

if billy corgan talked more about how he did most of the playing on the smashing pumpkins records and less about chemtrails i'd like him better

bob lefse (rushomancy), Sunday, 15 October 2017 18:46 (one year ago) Permalink

was there ever a solo beatles tracks poll?

― niels, Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:32 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think there was one scheduled on the ballot poll waiting list, I've no idea where we're up to with that now, though

soref, Sunday, 15 October 2017 18:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Like anyone would have forgotten it. It's like Billy Corgan telling everyone that he did most of the playing on Smashing Pumpkins records, like yeah we already know and we get it.

its not like they had a choice when every fan journalist and tv show host asks them when the Beatles are getting back together on a daily basis

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 15 October 2017 18:56 (one year ago) Permalink

it would have been easy as fuck for John and George and Ringo to go on tour and do their Beatles stuff every night, cash in on that. John and George pretty much stopped playing out entirely. Ringo was off hanging w T-Rex. i dont exactly see them wallowing in nostalgia on the contrary it was a bit of an albatross

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 15 October 2017 18:59 (one year ago) Permalink

It's obvious that the Beatles believed their own myth and their own hype. All of them. Including Ringo, and especially Lennon.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:07 (one year ago) Permalink

its not like they had a choice when every fan journalist and tv show host asks them when the Beatles are getting back together on a daily basis

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, October 15, 2017 6:56 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and this has what to do with their songwriting, exactly?

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Lennon's beliefs and feelings about the Beatles and associated hype seemed to change weekly, but he at least professed to think a large segment of their work was crap rushed out to meet deadlines.

JoeStork, Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Though that may have been prompted by a feeling that the only way to get out from under the Beatles thing post-breakup was to tarnish the myth as much as possible.

JoeStork, Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:15 (one year ago) Permalink

god knows what he'd make of his mid 70s period if he were alive today.

piscesx, Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

When he wrote "I don't believe in Beatles", he was contributing to the myth. You don't even write a line like that unless you believe your own hype. He knew what he was doing.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:19 (one year ago) Permalink

I feel like a key part of Lennon's story is that much of the time he didn't know what he was doing and was trying to not be miserable. I mean, the myth was already there, and it was pretty much impossible for someone as self-obsessed as Lennon not to engage with it.

JoeStork, Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

As Adam Bruneau pointed out, every interview any of them did after 1970 was “When are you getting back together?” and “Remember when you were on Ed Sullivan?” And I think it’s safe to say no fewer than 95% of their interactions with fans (or hell, even close friends) were/are about their Beatle years. So yeah, it has to do with their songwriting because that’s what their lives were.

As for Lennon believing his own hype, kids brought massive LENNON SAVES banners to some of their 1966 shows, the Klan threatened a terror attack, records were burned, and later, murders were committed based on non-existent secret messages on the white album. Hype (an insufficient term) like that isn’t exactly easy to dismiss (and it’s not as if he didn’t try, saying, “It’s just a rock ‘n’ roll band breaking up, it’s not the end of the world”).

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:34 (one year ago) Permalink

(x-post)

Indeed!

Moving on to the others: McCartney, as amazing as it seems now, initially tried as hard as he could to make a break from the Beatles thing. Yes, there's the songs about Lennon on Ram and Wild Life and a little Beatle hangover on McCartney, but from 1972 up until Tug of War there's not much Beatle-referencing stuff there, unless you count the odd Beatles track played at Wings shows.

It may have been Lennon's death, but I'd say from Tug of War onwards the Beatle references came back in McCartney's work - slowly at first with 'Here Today', the re-recordings on Broad Street and stuff like the 'My Brave Face' and 'This One' videos, before totally kicking into fucking overdrive from Flaming Pie onwards...

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:42 (one year ago) Permalink

So yeah, it has to do with their songwriting because that’s what their lives were.

No it doesn't, though. The two aren't related at all. Just because you get asked a question in an interview, it doesn't automatically mean you must write about it. If they were that keen to move on and create something distinct, they wouldn't have bothered being so self-referential.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Even Harrison, bless him, as wounded as he was from the Beatle years (which enabled him to form supergroups, put out a wad of spotty records and let him get away with not being bothered about touring) couldn't resist throwing the Beatles references about!

There's references galore on almost all of his albums.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Just because you get asked a question in an interview, it doesn't automatically mean you must write about it. If they were that keen to move on and create something distinct, they wouldn't have bothered being so self-referential.


Except it wasn’t a question in an interview; it was many questions in every interview, of which there were many, in addition to every fan they happened to encounter. Some artists are able to compartmentalize to the degree that they can force themselves not to be somehow influenced by the few years in their lives when they helped to change a significant chunk of western culture; others, evidently, can’t. I don’t know that the Beatles as solo artists should be faulted for their lack of finesse in that area.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:06 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't know if I'd ever watched that 1980-era footage of John and Yoko walking around Central Park until a few years ago or so, but sure enough, as soon as someone recognizes him, it's the Beatles question and it's ten years later.

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Except it wasn’t a question in an interview; it was many questions in every interview, of which there were many, in addition to every fan they happened to encounter.

It still doesn't mean you have to write about it! McCartney actually didn't for a very long time, and he would have kept the Beatles going forever if he could have done. Harrison was all "I'm having a better time playing with Dylan and hanging out with Clapton" etc. etc. yet he could be as bad as Lennon for slipping Beatles references into his work.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:16 (one year ago) Permalink

What are those songs apart from "Living in the Material World?"

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:18 (one year ago) Permalink

(And obviously "When We Was Fab" much much later)

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:18 (one year ago) Permalink

"All Those Years Ago" I suppose

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:19 (one year ago) Permalink

If the Stones had split up after Exile on Main Street you can bet people would have been asking them when they're getting back together constantly too. Plenty of bands have had to endure that. There's still, incredibly, people asking Paul Weller if The Jam are ever gonna reform. Don't see him writing songs about that. Will The Smiths reform? Don't know, but don't see Morrissey writing songs about it.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

'Isn't It a Pity?', 'Run of the Mill', 'Sue Me, Sue You Blues', 'Living in the Material World', 'This Guitar (Can't Keep From Crying)', 'Here Comes the Moon', 'All Those Years Ago', 'When We Was Fab' ... I could go on...

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink

'Wah-Wah', there's another...

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink

If the Stones had split up after /Exile on Main Street/ you can bet people would have been asking them when they're getting back together constantly too. Plenty of bands have had to endure that. There's still, incredibly, people asking Paul Weller if The Jam are ever gonna reform. Don't see him writing songs about that. Will The Smiths reform? Don't know, but don't see Morrissey writing songs about it.


I don’t believe the Jam nor the Smiths had an equivalent effect on popular culture that the Beatles did. Nor were the fan bases of either band a fraction of that of the Beatles.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:26 (one year ago) Permalink

I didn't know "Isn't It a Pity" and "Run of the Mill" were so specifically about Beatle relationships. It actually puts a little more meat into "Run of the Mill" for me, personally. But those are great songs anyway. "Wah-Wah" too.

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:41 (one year ago) Permalink

iirc, “Isn’t It A Pity” dates from the Revolver sessions. George possibly rewrote some lines in 1970.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:47 (one year ago) Permalink

I don’t believe the Jam nor the Smiths had an equivalent effect on popular culture that the Beatles did. Nor were the fan bases of either band a fraction of that of the Beatles.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, October 15, 2017 8:26 PM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

We're not talking about, measuring or comparing a bands effect on popular culture. We're talking about people being asked a question in an interview and the effect of this on their songwriting.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:18 (one year ago) Permalink

xxpost:

At least on Dark Horse he had Clapton making off with wife and falling off the wagon to think about - even if the former only got onto the LP in the form of new lyrics on 'Bye Bye Love' ... He should have waited until his throat had healed, though. I'd have far more time for that record if I could put up with the singing.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Originally I think we were talking more generally about the reasons why the ex-Beatles would choose to write on Beatle-related themes and addressing your criticism of that.

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Yes, that too!

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:29 (one year ago) Permalink

We're not talking about, measuring or comparing a bands effect on popular culture. We're talking about people being asked a question in an interview and the effect of this on their songwriting.


We weren’t talking about that until you brought up the Jam and the Smiths. The frequency and rabidness with which Weller and Morrissey were asked about reuniting is likely significantly less than that of any member of the Beatles.

The Beatles were thought, by a sizable number of their fans, to have The Answer, if not An Answer to the seismic cultural shifts of the ‘60s. Weller and Morrissey may well have been similarly regarded by fans of theirs in their times, but questions put to them in interviews, and by fans/fanatics, did not have the same weight of “you changed our generation!” behind them.

Again, this is not a matter of a single interviewer asking a single question in a single interview. The Beatles had (have) to endure a gauntlet of hectoring for decades, on a scale no other performers have had to endure. More likely than not, as artists tend to reflect the lives they’ve led through their work, this will come out in their music, consciously and otherwise.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:46 (one year ago) Permalink

there have been other musicians before and since the beatles who had the same kind of enormous social impact, but i don't know of any of them who made that impact as part of a collective entity. it doesn't make a lot of sense to ask michael jackson if michael jackson is ever going to get back together, and as tremendously famous as the beatles were individually, they were and always will be dwarfed by "The Beatles". it's not the sort of thing one can "move on" from, any more than someone can "move on" from being the american president.

bob lefse (rushomancy), Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Imagine if Bob Dylan had broken up.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Sunday, 15 October 2017 22:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah he might have had someone going through his trash or something...

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:19 (one year ago) Permalink

There's that great passage in Chronicles where he talks about once seeing a magazine cover that featured some multi-headed monster with, I think, his head and Kennedy's and, I don't know, Castro or something. That's what he had to deal with.

timellison, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Ha wow!

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 00:15 (one year ago) Permalink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_We_Not_Men%3F_We_Are_Devo!#Artwork

"The manager of the company's art department, Rick Serini, recommended an artist who could airbrush and alter the face of the picture, while lead singer Mark Mothersbaugh offered a picture he'd procured from a local newspaper that morphed the faces of U.S. presidents John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. These ideas were later morphed with the original "Chi Chi" Rodriguez image to create the cover art of the album.[9]"

bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 16 October 2017 00:20 (one year ago) Permalink

We weren’t talking about that until you brought up the Jam and the Smiths. The frequency and rabidness with which Weller and Morrissey were asked about reuniting is likely significantly less than that of any member of the Beatles.

The frequency and rabidness doesn't matter - what matters is they still get asked, which was a response to Tim's post about Lennon getting asked 10 years after The Beatles broke up.

The Beatles were thought, by a sizable number of their fans, to have The Answer, if not An Answer to the seismic cultural shifts of the ‘60s.

This is all irrelevant unless The Beatles believed this themselves.

Weller and Morrissey may well have been similarly regarded by fans of theirs in their times, but questions put to them in interviews, and by fans/fanatics, did not have the same weight of “you changed our generation!” behind them.

With Weller and Morrissey it was more "you speak for our generation" rather than "you changed our generation" - this distinction is notable. The Sex Pistols changed their generation. This is all irrelevant though.

Again, this is not a matter of a single interviewer asking a single question in a single interview. The Beatles had (have) to endure a gauntlet of hectoring for decades, on a scale no other performers have had to endure. More likely than not, as artists tend to reflect the lives they’ve led through their work, this will come out in their music, consciously and otherwise.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, October 15, 2017 9:46 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Again, it's irrelevant - they didn't need to write about it - and again, McCartney didn't for a very long time even though he may have spoken about The Beatles often in interviews - until he finally gave in. Music and interviews are different things, and I don't believe any Beatles reference in their solo careers is anything other than conscious.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 01:29 (one year ago) Permalink

I think it's more that they all had colossal egos and believed their own hype and myth, in some ways contributing to their own myth by self-mythologising.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 01:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Dark Horse is underrated. It's patchy, but it's also got some real gems

Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 16 October 2017 01:43 (one year ago) Permalink

I see no need to make that criticism in general about them. Sometimes, they seem humble to me, actually. Always totally willing to grant some kind of Joseph Campbell-type relevance to the Beatles "myth" rather than just criticize it as hype.

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 01:44 (one year ago) Permalink

"Also" totally willing, etc.

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 01:44 (one year ago) Permalink

I think it's more that they all had colossal egos and believed their own hype and myth, in some ways contributing to their own myth by self-mythologising.

― more Allegro-like (Turrican)

look they _made_ their own myth. what, you think they sold records just by writing good songs? if the beatles had been humble we would never have heard of them.

bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 16 October 2017 03:41 (one year ago) Permalink

I've got a big ol soft spot for Dark Horse, bad singing and all. Pretty easily my second fave album of his. I will say my vinyl version on my shit speakers sounds way better than the remastered one on Spotify

Shame this didn't make ATMP. Top 5 George track for me:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N2rFr0DyQcg

constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 16 October 2017 03:46 (one year ago) Permalink

since "the nurse"i've been convinced she's an artist i ought to get into it but neglected to do so. what a mistake, she's the best

Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 16 October 2017 04:03 (one year ago) Permalink

look they _made_ their own myth. what, you think they sold records just by writing good songs? if the beatles had been humble we would never have heard of them.

― bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, October 16, 2017 3:41 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No they didn't! Others made the myth for them any they bought into it and eventually began fuelling it.

They initially sold records by yes, writing good songs, but also looking the part (they were well packaged), being there at the right time and being helped along by the hype of their management team and others.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 06:48 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah, the Beatles contributed to their own mythology, being that they were in the Beatles and didn't just stop making music altogether. i don't really understand Turrican's point here, they should have written good songs but not referenced that thing they did for 1/3rd of their lives, seems like a dumb demand to make

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:16 (one year ago) Permalink

like wow they consciously wrote about their own lives, oh no, what bastards

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:17 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm not saying they shouldn't have done, I'm saying they did it to an embarrassing degree. There is a difference there.

Although The Beatles never played a gig where they decided to knock live goldfish into the audience out of champagne glasses, so I suppose there is that.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:23 (one year ago) Permalink

of course they did -- what else inspired George's "Fish on the Sand"?!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 October 2017 11:29 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm not saying they shouldn't have done, I'm saying they did it to an embarrassing degree. There is a difference there.

― more Allegro-like (Turrican)

so the standard here is, what, turrican is embarrassed by the degree to which they wrote about their own lives?

bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 16 October 2017 12:17 (one year ago) Permalink

If they were merely writing about their own lives, that would be fine... if they had still been in The Beatles. The tone of the solo Beatles when they get all self-referential isn't "this is what I did today", it's the sound of people believing their own hype.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 13:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Then again, when they tried to write about being young when they were past the Beatles' stage, it wasn't all convincing.

e.g. "Back seat of my car", I love the song, but .. really?

Mark G, Monday, 16 October 2017 13:42 (one year ago) Permalink

As far as the audience was concerned, they were still in the Beatles, in the sense that no one would let them forget it, and no one would let them rest without begging them to reunite, with the veiled subtext of "save us!"

To the extent that the Beatles themselves bought into it, they went back and forth. George lamented that the only peace they got on tour was when they went to the can; but when Vox came up with the Super Beatle amps for that tour, his response was, "'Super Beatle'?! What's more super than being a Beatle?"

In the Anthology he said, "They gave their screams, but we gave our nervous systems"; but while viewing footage of screaming throngs, he turned to the director and said, "If U2 thinks they're a big and popular band, then they should sit through this shit and they can see how popular a real band can be."

The fact that they wrote about the Beatles in their solo work as much as they did was, in part, a way of processing what the fuck they'd all been through. Paul's comparatively scant Beatle-referencing output could likely be put down to the fact that he angrily and dickishly initiated the breakup (publicly, at least) -- to put out songs in 1970-75 along the lines of "gee, I miss the fellas, and boy, we were great!" would be a dick move.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 16 October 2017 14:17 (one year ago) Permalink

As far as the audience was concerned, they were still in the Beatles, in the sense that no one would let them forget it, and no one would let them rest without begging them to reunite, with the veiled subtext of "save us!"

That's the audience's problem rather than the band's problem. Unless you're saying that they were in some way pandering to their audience, in which case I agree.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 15:17 (one year ago) Permalink

While of course also giving themselves self-congratulatory pats on the back in song at the same time.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 15:18 (one year ago) Permalink

U2 have probably played bigger gigs and given more value for money at their gigs than The Beatles ever did post-Hamburg. Just that audiences have learned to stfu because, let's face it, those screaming crowds look idiotic now.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

They looked idiotic then too tbf

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 October 2017 15:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Those songs on ATMP don't seem like self-congratulatory pats on the back to me. What are we talking about, "Early 1970?" "I'm the Greatest?" The "How Do You Sleep"/"Some People Never Know" back and forth?

timellison, Monday, 16 October 2017 16:55 (one year ago) Permalink

That's because they're not. The self-congratulatory pats on the back came later, particularly when McCartney got in on the act. Before that it was merely just self-referential myth-making.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 17:01 (one year ago) Permalink

This brings me nicely to...

Paul's comparatively scant Beatle-referencing output could likely be put down to the fact that he angrily and dickishly initiated the breakup (publicly, at least) -- to put out songs in 1970-75 along the lines of "gee, I miss the fellas, and boy, we were great!" would be a dick move.

Or it could be that he genuinely wanted to move on and make music on his own terms. Which he did, and the fact that he continued to score hit after hit showed he was onto something.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 16 October 2017 17:05 (one year ago) Permalink

this whole discussion is insane but man....... hating on "back seat of my car" ???? bonkers

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 01:54 (one year ago) Permalink

He wasn't hating on it - he said he loves the song, but finds the lyric unconvincing.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 06:00 (one year ago) Permalink

I think we should all be embarrased about how much we love THE BEATLES

niels, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 07:11 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, whoa!

The idea that Paul has to have his relationship w/ girlfriend, while hiding from her dad. That's mmmm probably not where he was at, at that time.

Mark G, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:50 (one year ago) Permalink

'Hi Hi Hi' was probably more where he was at!

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 12:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Pretty sure Morrissey has written songs about the Smiths and the break-up/aftermath of the Smiths (a bigger solo Moz fan will have to help me out here...)

mahb, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 12:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Do 'The Smiths', 'Johnny', 'Andy' or 'Mike' appear in the lyrics?

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 13:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah if I'd been in the Beatles I doubt I would've even noticed really

albvivertine, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Wonder if Pete Best ever thinks about it.

pplains, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:46 (one year ago) Permalink

four months pass...

Destroy the 1981 comeback..

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 March 2018 03:22 (nine months ago) Permalink

Do 'The Smiths', 'Johnny', 'Andy' or 'Mike' appear in the lyrics?

Johnny, Andy, Stephen and Mike
If I like the girl who cares who you like

Whiney On The Moog (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 8 March 2018 04:37 (nine months ago) Permalink

1979’s superior eponymous effort (its single “Blow Away” is a beguiling little gem that’s the equal of any McCartney)

love that entire album

reverse-periscoping (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 8 March 2018 08:35 (nine months ago) Permalink

Let's rap and tap at Crackerbox Palace

timellison, Friday, 9 March 2018 15:36 (nine months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Sounds so much like Jerry Garcia on "Pisces Fish"

timellison, Tuesday, 5 June 2018 20:34 (six months ago) Permalink


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