Jefferson Airplane

They're even worse than the Grateful Dead - at least the Dead didn't evolve into some horrible genetic mutation like "Dead Starship."

i heart "white rabbit", its songform is ABCDEFGHI.....

My favourite song of theirs might be "Comin' back to me".

i still say "surrealistic pillow" and "after bathing at baxter's" are masterpieces, nuts to you all.

Grace also beat Courtney to (Man)hole.

Actually, if Grace's autobiography is to be believed, Jack's bits were enormous.

'rejoyce' is incredible, as is 'two heads' (it invents the first throwing muses lp, which is high praise AFAIC)

it's all about slick

also that shrill, treble-bright, highly-strung feel running through the record seems a lot closer to the acid experience than more blissy gambolling through the meadows type stuff

BUT, if you can look beyond what they became and trim away the tripe, there's gems in there. personally, i only have the '66-'70 stuff. so, they go from stoner-hippie to LSD laced acrobatics to neo-revolutionary types in the scope of 4 years and make some great tunes. alot of "takes off" can be forgetable based on the sentiments, but it's actually pretty solid. "pillow", as much as it's overplayed, still has some highlights on it. "baxters" is my favorite, as it's the most tripped out stuff. "crown" has some holdover from that."volunteers" also has moments, but is also the last JA album where everyone's contributing, and for me, that's where it ends.

No. If explained, annoying statements such as "Better than the Beatles" are no longer nearly as annoying.

So, not in explanation of the above, Grace Slick doesn't seem like any other hippie singers, unless you count Ann Wilson and Courtney Love as hippie singers. But then, the hippies were more punk than the punks were anyway.

Jack Casady played bass for James Brown.

(What argument?)

re: the comparison upthread with amon düül 2, the similarity in looks of grace slick and renate knaup is uncanny
http://www.herbgreenefoto.com/gallery/jefferson_airplane/grace-2.jpghttp://www.mic.gr/dbimages/1071_1.jpg

but, that's mine opine.

Everytime I play "Two Heads" off "Bathing at Baxter's" when I DJ it out, I get kids running up, wanting to know what the hell it is. That's one hell of a bass line.

Also baffled on the Slick hatred.

Classic though White Rabbit and Somebody to Love may be, they fall easily into that category of songs that, once they lose their initial, fresh power, never regain it. Grace Slick oversings and I cringe now at the very thought of it. And that's Pillow spoiled.

up against tha wall, muthafucka!

aw c'mon they're not that bad

i went back and listened to Takes Off/Surrealistic/Baxters- a pretty solid run right there, for any band of the day. granted, there's some filler-fodder, but i mean, c'mon! it WAS the 60's fer christ's sake!

that said, Skippy shoulda stayed and played some gtr!! JA coulda had 'Hey, Grandma', 'Omaha', and any number of Skip tunes had they let him hang around...

We are all outlaws in the eyes of America
In order to survive we steal cheat lie forge fuck hide and deal
We are obscene lawless hideous dangerous dirty violent and young
But we should be together
Come on all you people standing around
Our life's too fine to let it die and
We should be together
All your private property is
Target for your enemy
And your enemy is
We
We are forces of chaos and anarchy
Everything they say we are we are
And we are very
Proud of ourselves

I keep harping on it but After Bathing at Baxter's is a total mindfuck of a guitar-oriented psych album. If someone is into psychedelia but disses the Airplane then he/she ain't really into psychedelia.

Was is Slick writing the lyrics for "We Should Be Together" and similar Yippie stuff, or Kantner? I have always had in mind that it was mainly Kantner, but I have no idea why, and I haven't bothered to do any actual research.

"she's conscious of this" -- that's the nub, isn't it? I do like those WSBT lyrics, and a bunch of the other revolutionary stuff on Volunteers and Blows Against The Empire, but it's always been a sort of guilty pleasure: reminders of my simpler, dumber youth and all that. I never had the sense that they were in any way self-conscious about their ironies; in fact, some of what I love about those lyrics is that they just go all in with no evidence of adult hesitation.

QuantumNoise may be confusing self-consciousness about their own confusion with the attitude I think was far more characteristic (at least during the 18-24 months when all these songs were written): absolute moral certainty that whatever replaced The System after The System was smashed would be beautiful, and better. It was for the ineffectual Old Left types to debate the details of the future socialist regime; like Rummy invading Iraq, the young'uns assumed that that shit would work itself out later.

I can say with certainty that's not what I'm getting at. I once included a bunch of these lyrcis in an article. When I get home tonight I will post what it is I'm talking about. But the lyrics do deal specifically with observing that there was a young generation of people who wanted something new but didn't know WHAT they wanted. The Airplane were both caught up in the times and outside the times.

And I can even hear these sentiments in the Airplane's music. They didn't write too many upbeat lets-get-together type protest songs between '65 and '70. Even Balin's own tunes were somewhat melancholy: "Today" and "Comin' Back to Me". The Youngbloods, the Airplane most definitely ain't. "Wild Tyme" off of Baxter's is a good example. There is a certain amount of ecstacy and joy in the lyrics but those dissonant voices and guitars also emit a ton of chaos and confusion. It's quite complex as someone said before.

BTW- Slick, Kantner and Balin all wrote lyrics.

I feel like those particular lyrics are mainly Kantner's.

You mention "Blows Against the Empire" -- an album-length fantasy about hijacking a starship and creating a hippie-commune paradise among the stars -- you don't think that's totally a self-aware exercise in exploring the limits of certain ideals? I suppose it could be a metaphor for Kantner's deadly serious conviction that everyone should drop out and join up right away, here on Earth -- but it seems more like a complicated feeling out of the attractiveness of that idea.

I don't know much about these folks apart from their lyrics and the liner notes in the CD reissues, but those notes have recent interviews that also support the idea that the JA crew were hardly gung-ho, uncritical revolutionary types. (There could be a degree of revisionism here -- Slick seems particularly big on complicating any straightforward reading of her songs -- "I was this city girl, making fun of Marin vegetarian hippies, I liked to wear makeup," etc. -- but nonetheless.)

VH1 recently played a JA concert clip that I'm sure is famous, but I had never heard about it... Slick is very very drunk, and starts taunting the audience: "Whooo woonnn the waaaaarrr....."

65-72=hawt n' slue-tay!

I recently got into "Takes Off" (the one I slept on) -- it's KICK ASS. I thought it would be good but sorta generic folk rock (there's a touch of that, like in their version of Dino Valenti's "Get Together"), but it's really this dynamite debut rock album! The original (Balin et al.) songs are terrific... I love the swaggering, self-actualized-rock-guy attitude. A must-hear is "Come Up the Years" - a hilarious tale of hipster chutzpah, embellished with cute bells that mock the narrator's pain (Google the lyrics for Marty & Paul's sad plight!).

I love these guys 90% of the time, but I went to listen to a concert of theirs at Wolfgang's Vault and thought it was the most horriblest shit in the world. I like them a lot better in the studio than live.

mebbe so but i recently (finally) watched monterey pop, and they're great in that.

"Volunteers" is a great song and great album.

And I'm not normally into West Coast hippie stuff. JA always seem to take several listens before they yield anything of value. But the value is definitely there.

Grace Slick was fucking hot

i love volunteers

SO FUCKING MUCH

at first i thought it could never compare to Crown of Creation -- too modernized and different -- but the piano, textures and melodies are FUCKING AMAZING. dammit what is that one song? number 4 i think? i always forget the name, where she goes

"how many [something something] before you

stop your believing?

and the [something something] down on you..."

i swear, that is one of the most beautiful bits of songwriting ever. it's so rallying.

and BTW morris Takes Off, i don't think i've ever heard but have you heard Early Flight? so good! Mexico is a killer song.

"Hey Frederick"?

I dunno, there's loads I love on this album - "We Can Be Together", "Good Shepherd", "Turn My Life Down", "Eskimo Blue Day".....

It's a very emotional non-BS album. It's got a feeling of persecution about it - that these people are standing for a political vision that's about to be erased. So the fervour is tinged (and oddly heightened) by the first murmurs of defeatism.

Is "Early Flight" a comp.?

Yeah, "Hey Fredrick". Google says these are the lyrics

One more pair of
Wire wheels bear down on you
Gear stripping the willow
How many machine men will you see before you
Stop believing that speed
Will slide down on you
Like brakes in bad weather

Surmounter - "Mexico" IS a killer song! Especially when it kicks into that middle section - "I MEAN IT'S NOT AS IF YOU WERE ALOOOONE..." (I think it was the first post-"Volunteers" single, yeah? about a Nixon plot to poison marijunana coming up from Mexico...?)

"Volunteers" is my favorite album too, and I'm with you guys about "Hey Frederick"! Anyone who's into, like, heavy progressive rock and Dagmar Krause stuff (doesn't Grace kind of sound like her in that "Machine Men" part?) NEEDS to hear that song.

<i>It's got a feeling of persecution about it - that these people are standing for a political vision that's about to be erased. So the fervour is tinged (and oddly heightened) by the first murmurs of defeatism.</i>

Yeah, and it's interesting how the "decay" of everything in the last few JA albums, after "Volunteers," sort of parallels the general "decay" of the "Sixties scene" in the early '70s... everything getting more self-indulgent, confused, self-destructive, into heavier drugs... (or at least that cliche; I wasn't there).

Plus, at the same time, you have the emerging space commune mentality of the Kantner/Slick albums, with the "get the government off our backs, we have shotguns, let's build our own world," in place of the tarnished idea of "changing" the wider world... which leads into big, new success with Jefferson Starship, and what that eventually becomes ("We Built This City")... it's all like a perfect microcosm of a certain idea of how the '60s/'70s/'80s progressed for a whole "generation"...

...or more of an idealized, rock-star-sized, real-time "working out" of a generational "mythology"... even helping to provide the basis for the mythology (which may not apply in its entirety to too many "real" people at all), both in the progression of their "career" and the development of their lyrics/ideas, played out over the REAL '60s, '70s, '80s...

"Hey Frederick" -- thank you! Stunning.

YES morris the middle section of Mexico is gold. Mexico was post-Volunteers?? Huh I guess so (just checked Wiki) but that's SO weird - I could have sworn it sounded like something much earlier.

WHOA actually this really confuses me! 1974 was when Early Flight came out, but it sounds like such a step back (in time, not quality) from Volunteers, no? Also it's fucking GREAT - i'm impressed it came out so late. wow.

yes and re: Early Flight i'm not sure what it was exactly, cuz i don't remember ever coming across it as an actual studio album -- i found it at a used place once

u know, i think it WAS a comp -- it must have been a comp of the early b-sides

Early Flight was oddities and rarities from '65 to around '70 or '71. Some of that stuff is pre-Volunteers and some of it is post-Volunteers.

It's funny how RCA didn't release one of those early singles (which ended up on "Early Flight") because the lyrics say, "Our nights together will be fantastic TRIPS," or something -- and by "Volunteers," they're singing "motherfucker" and "wouldn't mean shit to a tree"...

I've heard at the end of the '60's there was a kind of "frontier" vibe amongst the counter culture. Like the psychedelic era was a new social/psychological frontier. And there were kind of unconscious parallels with the old frontier proper (i.e. it adopted victorian/edwardian modes of dress, typograhy + the interest in traditional/country musics)

Supposedly the closing of the old frontier was a traumatic time in American history - like the end of a vast potentiality.

"Volunteers" kind of mimics that feeling. A key lyric for me is "We are all outlaws in the eyes of America". Pioneers become outlaws once the frontier closes and the natural order is restored.

I'm sort of groping at this, but someone who's more expert in American history might be able to provide a sounder factual basis.

the countercultural frontier vibe amounted to david crosby wearing a fringe jacket. at the same time an actual new frontier was being explored via astronauts and the moon landing tho the freeks greeted this mostly w/indifference or contempt. I remember the cool recordstore/headshop I used to frequent had a poster of Neil Armstrong taking "one giant step for mankind" w/the caption SO WHAT. but Paul Kanter and Grace Slick followed up Volunteers w/a concept album about rocketing off into space and setting up a new utopia: Blows{ Against The Empire, nominally the first Jeff Starship album. I listened to it a few months ago, wondering if it was another If I Could Only remember My Name but it wasn't that great. Some not bad jamming but the "political" lyrics were annoying and/or absurd in retrospect. in general I'd say JA haven't aged well because of the topical bent their songs took at the dawn of the 70s. real good singers, though.

the countercultural frontier vibe amounted to david crosby wearing a fringe jacket.

The first band to really play the "frontier" role -- 19th century Wild West/gentleman look -- was the Charlatans. They nailed the look as early as '65. Quicksilver soon followed suit, as did the other groups, including Crosby, who actually never played the role nearly as over the top as the Charlatans. The cover art for the Deja Vu LP cover is totally behind the times in this respect.

via astronauts and the moon landing tho the freeks greeted this mostly w/indifference or contempt.

I don't think the counterculture held a consensus attitude towards mankind landing on the moon. "indifference or contempt" simply isn't accurate.

um by the way? the "bridge" in hey fredrick makes it like 9 minutes long? and it's amazing -- i all of a sudden thought i was in another fantastic song

ugh Eskimo Blue Day, we've prolly talked bout that one by now -- i know i saw the lyrics up there. really great

lov the waves of piano.

Finally getting around to the Jef

Takes Off is great, but this extended version of "And I Like It" is killing me in a good way.

Hopefully this isn't predictable to say, but I'm guessing Thinking Fellers Union Local 282 must have heard a lot of Jefferson Airplane? I just this as such a prototype for one major facet of the Fellers.

Listened to the first half of Crown of Creation this afternoon. Has really nice "Soundtrack for Spring turning to Summer" feel. "In Time"...woah.

the countercultural frontier vibe amounted to david crosby wearing a fringe jacket. at the same time an actual new frontier was being explored via astronauts and the moon landing tho the freeks greeted this mostly w/indifference or contempt.

With maybe the exception of Roger McGuinn who was tinkering around with Moogs and songs about Apollo 11 while just before recording Sweetheart Of The Rodeo

Yeah, JA is excellent all the way up through Volunteers... then I got the fuck away.

ack vhere is love for the jorma & jack? und marty balin is excellent crooner on song like "It's No Secret"

but honestly, I like quicksilver, moby grape, the dead and even big brother better than JA.

I always heard them as collegiate folkies who tried (and failed) to learn how to rock. "White Rabbit" is about the only thing I can stomach from them (Sleater-Kinney having given me a new perspective on it). Slick's singing is light-years beyond her band's fumbling.

The only other song of theirs I can get into is "Miracles". No idea why. It just works. But that's Jefferson Starship, so maybe it doesn't count.

Crown Of Creation is so beautiful.

Jorma and Jack are amazing in JA, but I never thought all the Hot Tuna records I bought were all that great. Revisit maybe.

Yeah, JA is excellent all the way up through Volunteers... then I got the fuck away.

The albums that followed were really erratic, but each has its moments, and it's worth seeking out the sometimes-hard-to-find Kantner/Slick/David Freiberg album Baron Von Tollbooth and the Chrome Nun. "Harp Tree Lament," a Robert Hunter lyric, may be the most gorgeous harmony they ever sang.

Avoid the Kantner/Slick Sunfighter, though - nothing to hear there.

The only post-Volunteers by JA i have is the Last Flight 2-CD, which was their complete final show.

It's the most triumphant, climactic, bombastic trainwreck of a rock show i've ever heard, and that's having heard GBV's Crying Your Knife Away.. except Last Flight is extra bloated and less funny. Still trying to convey what the fuck that show was.

Sppokwatch Alert -> anyone notice how the Surmounter answered his/her own question twenty-one posts (and five months) before he or she asked it??...v. suspicious, surmie...

What's the Great Society stuff like?

Is this run off from the krautrock thread?

It's all over the map. A huge chunk of it is post-Yardbirds/post-Spoonful folk-rock with some eastern/garage vibrations. However, there's a core of it that's utterly mind-blowing. As I said in that thread, if you dig psych rock, track down their version of "Sally Go Round the Roses." Utterly hypnotic. In fact, seek out this album:

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/13061.jpg

I actually prefer the Great Society's versions of "White Rabbit" and "Somebody to Love." They're less anthemic, more moody. Of course, not all of their stuff is awesome. But they're definitely a key foundation of psychedelia.

jack vhere is love for the jorma & jack?
Jack is cool. The great Anthony Jackson credits Jack with inspiring him to play bass with a pick.

haha, i added an extra 'j' at the beginning of the italics.

Listening to the 1968 Live at The Fillmore East album tonight. It's sorta this shambling randomness until POW - then it all makes sense.

i tell you, i have listened to after bathing at baxter's like half a dozen times and all i can remember is rhyming 'leopold bloom' with 'the only jew in the room'

I've just started getting into Crown of Creation. My parents always swore by Volunteers.

all your private property
is target for your enemy
and your enemy is
we

dun duh duh dun duh duh

bless its pointed little head has some major jams. jorma is on fire all over "the other side of this life"

loved hearing bits of them all over A Serious Man

Listening to the 1968 Live at The Fillmore East album tonight. It's sorta this shambling randomness until POW - then it all makes sense.

― Chris Barrus (Elvis Telecom), Friday, December 19, 2008 11:11 PM (1 year ago)

Finally got around to listening to The Woodstock Experience (it's basically their complete Woodstock set) and I could say the exact same thing again. Utterly maddening listening as just when you're ready to give up on Balin's prattling you can hear Jorma & Jack agreeing with you from 40 years in the past and putting the hammer down. "Wooden Ships" is 21 minutes long and has everything I love and hate about them.

Worth tracking down for "3/5 of a Mile in 10 Seconds" and "The Other Siade Of This Life" which are both amazingly furious. Amon Duul II comparison completely OTM.

tell me more about this "Wooden Ships": what's great about it? What's lousy? I like the song a lot and am looking for gateways to better appreciation of the Airplane: since I like their komrades at the time e.g. Neil Young, CSN, the Dead, there's got to be more magic in the Airplane than I've been able to hear.

Just got back from "A Serious Man".

"Somebody to Love" really is a fine song. Powerful vocals too, Slick sounds so fierce, so betrayed.

That said, I remember listening to my parent's copy of Surrealistic Pillow way back when and being really disappointed. Still like "Plastic Fantastic Lover" though. Unless my memory deceives me, that song has some funk.

oh waht a great song

the album kills imo. the use of the guitar bits from 'today' when duder is up on the roof in ASM proves it to be so.

Their take of "Other Side of This Life" will probably always be my favorite thing they did. Bless It's Pointed Little Head is a pretty great live record.

"Bear Melt"!

Today is such a jam.

also this photo: http://i48.tinypic.com/16bg4zs.jpg

I saw Jorma with David Bromberg two weeks ago tonight. always a treat. he did "Keep your Lamps" and "Hesitation Blues" for all you Hot Tuna fans out there. listened to that 'Sweeping Up the Spotlight' Cd for a week straight afterward .. so f'n good. The "Good Shepherd" on there is amazing..

Surmounter is right by the way (tends to be right a lot actually); "Hey Fredrick" is godlike.

One of my favorite bands (mostly bcz of Slick.)

after checking out the dead last week thought i should get more into jefferson airplane

picked up volunteers for a couple bucks on vinyl

basically jorma is a guitar god, he is absolutely killing every second he plays on this....the seems like their most dead-like record kinda "back to the country" jive and stuff but parts are downright amazing...it's funny how great grace can be at times and how hectoring and bad she can be at times.

we should be together is a jam....the version of wooden ships rules

Would like to have that version of "Wooden Ships" with the vocals stripped out. Hate the lyrics.

not feeling very free & easy?

yeah JA is almost like a parody of "hippie", they are the most hippie band i think, cassidy looks like a "hippie" halloween costume you buy at a party store on the back cover photo

also kinda weird: not a very well produced album, kinda muddy even on the orig vinyl...which is weird cuz most big rock stuff from that era is so well recorded

Beginning totally sounds like Balin is singing La La Means I Love You by The Delfonics over the chord changes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBbJufztxeg

it kinda blows my mind that jorma isn't mentioned in the best guitarists of the 60s discussions more often. he's just electrifying on volunteers

have you heard after bathing at baxters

that is my jam, sometimes

no honestly i've always had a hard time w/JA....i have surrealistic pillow on beat up vinyl somewhere, never really clicked w/this band until recently with volunteers?

baxter's one of the good ones?

is crown of creation good? that was one of my pop's fav records he always talked about it

Crown of Creation is great, especially this time of the year.

pillow is good but overrated

best one is

http://bestmediaportal.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/jefferson-airplane-takes-off-1.jpg

Regardless of their topical content, there's something undeniably mythical about the Airplane for me.

Slick is a p great songwriter; one of my favorites of the decade, not v prolific but there's a still a lot of classics there: obv White Rabbit, but also Lather, Hey Fredrick, Eskimo Blue Day...ABAB has two--Rejoyce & Two Heads, and both are keepers imo; another one of my favorites is Wild Tyme. And of course Won't You Try/Sunday Afternoon is a perfectly serviceable closer...

also, re: muddy production, Simon Reynolds said it best:

also that shrill, treble-bright, highly-strung feel running through the record seems a lot closer to the acid experience than more blissy gambolling through the meadows type stuff

― blissblogga, Monday, February 7, 2005 12:43 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark

Not that that's really appealing (to the extent that it might be true). I think a big part of what's appealing about them sonically is actually their warmth.

They truly rock like no one else. Not big on riffs, just great instrumental interplay and searing lead guitar/vocals.

wow I think Reynolds actually nailed it right there, can't imagine those records sounding like anything other than what they do. One of my favorite bands, and yes, Jorma is a god .. I *so* wanted to fly out to New York last December for his 70th! birthday bashes at the Beacon, but alas the funds just weren't there ... saw him like three times in 2010 otherwise, tho -- two Hot Tuna sets, one set with Dave Bromberg

Don't know much of this band's stuff but I absolutely love 'Have You Seen the Stars Tonite?' (which I think may have been Starship anyway)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl1PkH2D9EI

Blows Against the Empire and the other 70s pre-Starship solo Kantner albums are definitely all on my 'stuff to get' list

SAAATUUUURRRDAAAAaaaAAYY AAAFFTERRNOOOOON

still digging volunteers a lot. need to get more stuff by them.

i think i like them more than the dead so far, both bands i never really checked out too much. while the dead have a lot of good things, airplane "goes for it" a little bit harder which i like

btw,

what exactly does marty balin do in this band?

ululates, takes good publicity stills

according to wiki, has mild autism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ia2YcPwNVo

just watched the clip of airplane from gimme shelter...god, forgot how chilling that movie is.

props to balin for being the only one of the performers that day that just didn't stand up there say "hey be cool everyone"

Fidelity and panning make me wonder if After Bathing at Baxter's was recorded on four track.

matt if yer into JORMA, as you should me, you should check out some hot tuna LPs. my fave is 'burgers.' i love the airplane. think surrealistic pillow is my favorite, but really love baxter's, crown of creation, and volunteers too. blows against the empire is fun, and takes off is fine but a bit primitive by the the standard of their later heights...

I'm surprised there's only been three mentions of Bless Its Pointed Little Head in this long thread. That's where they sound completely on top of their game - the scorching version of "Plastic Fantastic Lover," the revamped version of "Somebody to Love"... almost a swaggering vibe to the whole record.

Ended up writing a little something on "Young Girl Sunday Blues":

http://thisiheard.blogspot.com/2011/05/jefferson-airplane-young-girl-sunday.html

matt if yer into JORMA, as you should be, you should check out some hot tuna LPs. my fave is 'burgers.'

This one song (from Burgers) is as great as even the greatest Airplane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nHgt13nCrg

Oh man, hell yeah. god, Hot Tuna >>>>> Starship ( and I actually like almost all Starship stuff)

*J* Starship , i guess i should have said ( i forgot that, in the case of this collective, it is key not to casually drop-off a modifier when making references)

What do y'all think of the Great Society?

I'm surprised there's only been three mentions of Bless Its Pointed Little Head in this long thread. That's where they sound completely on top of their game - the scorching version of "Plastic Fantastic Lover," the revamped version of "Somebody to Love"... almost a swaggering vibe to the whole record.

Indeed. The way the band come in piecemeal on Somebody To Love, until the bass part comes in properly and the whole thing locks together, is great.

What do y'all think of the Great Society?

versh of "Sally Round the Roses" is all psych heaven!!

I'm surprised there's only been three mentions of Bless Its Pointed Little Head

also .... fucking "BEAR MELT"!!

Great Society is good stuff but doesn't get nearly the play around my place as the prime Airplane records.

this is actually one of my fave JA documents:

http://www.amazon.com/Sweeping-Up-Spotlight-Live-Fillmore/dp/B003W77U88/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1304916426&sr=1-5

seriously, if you dig Jorma, you gotta get that CD.

it rules.

"Good Shepard" appears early on. gets better and better

not sure which version I like more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LPDCdtjkx0

Seems like it must have sounded pretty crazy and evil in 1966.

The one Great Society song I love is "Free Advice."

I wanted to post my favourite weird Airplane song, "Thunk," but it's been removed from YouTube. It pretty much stands apart from anything they ever did. This is pretty great too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8FucBj_q8&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active

that hot tuna song posted above is pretty hot stuff

Inspired by this thread, I played side 2 of "Crown Of Creation" last night. I also went to the record store today in search of "Bless Its Pointed Little Head", which I thought I had but didn't. They were out as well.

Hey guys: as part of what I assume is the gradual folding of the Collector's Choice label, Deep Discount is offering the 4 JA live albums CC music dropped last year for the total price of around $11 here.

woah ... awesome find! Thanks, C. Grisso/McCain!

Thanks--ordered five non-JA CDS (shipping to Canada: ugh, but still cheap overall).

They are an immensely flawed band, but I feel like the flaws are part of why I have a soft spot for them, or at least for their late 60s material. It feels like an honest document of those times, as in their music really exemplified a lot of the techniques and concepts that seemed hip and the way forward then but seem really embarrassing now, but they really... went for it, and I can't fault them for that.
For me it's all about the three-part harmonies plus the collision of different lead vocalists in one tune on a lot of their stuff. The guy right near the top of the thread who compared them to X is otm I think. Sometimes I think Slick benefits too much from her reputation of being the cool/smart/stylish one in an uncool band, but at the end of the day her voice is kind of incredible. Bass is pretty good on their peak material. Lead guitar is mediocre imo. Drumming is shite even when they were at their best (supposedly it's better on the live recordings but I've never ventured that far). Crown of Creation prob their best individual album.

As you may have noticed now, the only times I post in non funky house related threads is when I'm drunk. If anyone were to post a Dead Kennedys thread in this sort of situation I would prob ramble on all night.

I like Spencer Dryden - nice touch, creative.

Their first album, when Signe Anderson and Skip Spence were still in the band, is so underrated. "Blues From An Airplane", "It's No Secret", "Come Up The Years", and a whole bunch of other great songs. Holds up much better than other late-'60s hippie bands they're often compared with.

Pillow is one of my top 5 albums from 1967 - Balin and Slick may be my favorite mixed-gender vocal pairing of all time (well at least of those where one of them isn't Sandy Denny). And more great songs - "Today" and especially "Comin' Back To Me" sound as if they hailed from the 16th century. Skip's "My Best Friend" doesn't sound like the work of a crazy guy.

After that they unraveled - too much druggy noodling, long jams, lack of focus, though there were some occasional highlights.

Just got done with Return To The Matrix, the last of those four CCMusic live albums (all of which I got on the sale I linked to upthread and then held back for my birthday a couple weeks ago). The second disc is serious heat, concluding w/a killer 10 minute "...You and Me and Pooneil"

RIP Joey Covington

:(

Fuck that newspaper for showing the scene of the crash, imo. R.I.P.

aiiieee

Was listening to "Won't you try..." last week!

I picked up Baron von Tollbooth... (Kantner/Slick/Freiberg) from the cheapie bin at Fry's last week and am seriously loving it. All that Mellotron, interesting piano work from Grace, crystalline Jerry Garcia steel, actual tunes-it's like the country-prog move JA could never pull off..

I should totally check that one out, I ended up liking at least half of Sunfighter

I like "When I Was a Boy I Watched the Wolves" and "Million" a lot.

"When I Was a Boy I Watched the Wolves"

http://cards.littleoak.com.au/197172_daily_mirror_my_club/wolverhampton_wanderers.jpg

I imagine the song is not sung in a Black Country accent though, if only

Can't really say I get the thought process that brought them here (did a little reading, and it was commissioned), but in the film, it works okay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAJ4-Ey7jBM

jesus the music supervision in "american hustle" is beyond horrible.

http://www.openculture.com/2012/02/jefferson_airplane_wakes_up_new_york_jean-luc_godard_captures_it_1968.html

Saw that about a year ago--fantastic. The guy who walks across the frame just past 4:00 looks like Marvin Gaye, but he didn't have the beard yet, so it can't be him.

Jefferson Airplane’s Paul Kantner suffers heart attack
http://blog.sfgate.com/loaded/2015/03/27/jefferson-airplanes-paul-kantner-suffers-heart-attack/

Never knew Marty Balin put out a single in 1962: "Nobody but You"/"I Specialize in Love." Pretty ordinary and close to unrecognizable. There are two sales listed on Discogs, both around $200.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax1waV3lr_U

(A couple of posts question Balin's contribution to the band earlier in the thread. I'd agree with Christgau--the most soulful folkie ever. On "Today" and "Come Up the Years" especially, he's amazing.)

Balin formed the band.
The bside of the solo single at least was included on the JA box set JA Loves You. Though I've long since lost the first disc so can't listen to it myself.

Paul Kantner passed earlier today.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Jefferson-Airplane-s-Paul-Kantner-dies-at-74-6791483.php

rip. love those first few kantner/slick post-ja lps, ridiculous as they might be on occasion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWucwTZ2oIc

Yeah love that Grunt label stuff.
But Jeefferson Airplane with the classic Slick/Dryden lineup are one of my favourite bands ever. Especially Baxters.

classic rock poll & radio would be less cool without Jefferson Airplane. they had some dope jams

Sorry to hear this. I think Marty Balin sang most of my favorite JA songs, but (I had to check) seems that Paul wrote or co-wrote almost all of them: "Come Up the Years," "Today," "The Ballad of You and Me and Pooneil," "Won't You Try/Saturday Afternoon," "We Can Be Together."

classic rock poll & radio would be less cool without Jefferson Airplane. they had some dope jams

― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, January 28, 2016 8:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah... i don't think i even knew who "Jane" was by before the poll but it placing in the top 30 was so justified, incredible song.

the best!

The Airplane seem to have slipped off a lot of people's radar in the recent past, but the run of records from _Pillow_ through _Volunteers_ is pretty solid, as are a few of the mid-'70s Starship records. Kantner was always a great interview -- he was prone to the occasional conspiracy-theory excursion, but was never less than articulate and entertaining. RIP.

in the dead musician harvest of Jan 2016, Kantner's will not rate terribly highly going forward. I will only say that I like Blows against the Empire, his piece de resistance, after thinking that Jeff Airplane and everything branching off from it fucking sucks for many years, and that I saw him 20 years ago on St. Mark's Place, and he was wearing shorts and wore his tube socks up to his kneecaps.

Every airplane album is great. Same with every starship album up to Spitfire. And baron Von tollbooth and the chrome nun.

Classic. RIP.

The Kantner/Slick/Freiberg stuff is slept on, it's true.

Total Jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re_XSIJubZA

More "Jane" love...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjs9eUlv2AQ

The very early live sets by Jefferson Starship include live versions of tracks from those solo Grunt label lps. Certainly seeing a lot of Blows Against, Baron von and Manhole on the 74 era sets I've got.

Such a great song. RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rvetP_Kcgk

Sunfighter the solo Slick/Kantner lp is also great.
I was listening to it a couple of years back having just heard one of the first couple of Howlin Rain lps several times and was hearing similarity in influence combination of folk, psych with a lot of gospel or something similar in it.

I'm not sure what the ins and outs of the PERRO project were but seemed to be a lot of the SF and LA musicians living around Marin and other semi rural escapes around the time collaborating on musical projects. So seemed to include several of those early Grunt label lps, David Crosby's If I could only Remember My Name and a few other things. What I've heard from that stuff has been pretty great.

Marty was woken up by a truck one morning, which happened to be a truck with Volunteers of America painted on the side.[1] Marty started writing lyrics down and then asked Paul to help him with the music.

RIP. Honestly, as a teen I probably listened to more Airplane than I did Bowie.

Crazy thing is, the current Starship lineup is in my town tonight, and the show will go on.

Michael Corcoran, from FB:

1988 in San Francisco, the grand opening of Slim's. We are drinking Cape Cods like they're Koolaid and maybe there's a pill or two. I see Doug Sahm and go up to him. "Hey, man, we were just hanging out at the Hole In the Wall last week," I say. Not me, says Doug. "I'm from Austin, man." No recognition. "Doug Sahm," I said. "I know you man, c'mon." I'm not Doug Sahm, he says. Wow, stuck up, I think. The next day in the newspaper is a photo of some of the celebs on hand for Slim's opening. And there's Doug Sahm, only in the photo it says he's Paul Kantner.
RIP, man.

The Airplane are getting a Grammy lifetime award in two weeks.

wow Kantner and Sahm kinda were doppelgangers

^^Similar heritage, I think.

Just happened to watch this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_to_Love_(30_Rock)

Hm what if I link it this way?

Much better.

Saw a (unconfirmed) report online that Signe Anderson also died on Thursday. Even if this proves to be untrue, I can't be alone in believeing for the longest time that she'd died back in the '70s.

http://psychedelicsight.com/11890-anderson-signe-obituary/

Signe Anderson, who was the band's first female singer before Grace joined, died the same day as Kantner.

Because of this ^, I'm listening to the Takes Off album (I never had before). Quite okay.

Takes Off is really great, I loved her singing, damn it really is gonna be a boomer a day this year huh?

The "Signe's Farewell" archival live album is pretty sweet too--she's in better voice and the band feels a bit more at ease with the material.

Fun Facts from Wiki about RCA's censorship of Takes Off:

RCA executives found some of the lyrics too sexually suggestive. They had the band change the lyrics in "Let Me In" from "I gotta get in, you know where" to "You shut your door, not that ain't fair", and "Don't tell me you want money" to "Don't tell me it's so funny". In "Run Around" they had the line "Blinded by colors come flashing from flowers that sway as you lay under me" altered to "that sway as you stay here by me". With "Runnin' 'Round This World" the executives insisted that "trips" in the line "The nights I've spent with you have been fantastic trips" referred to taking LSD, though the band insisted it was merely common slang. Even replacing the word "trips" with a guitar apreggio did not placate RCA's concerns with the line's sexual connotations and refused its inclusion on the album, and the recording remained unreleased for the next eight years.

Meanwhile RCA was allowing Elvis Presley to sing "Do the Clam" and "Queenie Wahine's Papaya"

This seems to be the only footage of them with Anderson on Youtube. It's the studio version of the song dubbed in, but some good shots of her with the band around 1:06 and 1:33.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw-6-stIFJc

That's astounding about Signe Anderson (the timing). Takes Off remains my favourite album of theirs.

Enjoying this tune "Sketches of China" which popped up in a playlist. Kanter solo project feat. Grace Slick.

Not actually sure whose project it is to be honest.

I've never been a big fan of the Jefferson Airplane, but this performance makes me see the band in a different light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKtJ0XTwgTE

Their image, at least here, is not the colorful peace-loving stereotypical stuff, they look like they wouldn't be out of place onstage with the Velvet Underground, a band whose image and ethos I much preferred.

This is coming from someone who is too young to have experienced this firsthand. I am 47 and I love dark psyche rock after spending a youth growing up on metal and gothic music. Grace Slick looks particularly goth here to me, actually.

Does this mean there are some deep cuts on Surrealistic Pillow that I would really enjoy? Or is this video an anomaly?

She does look pretty sinister there...They definitely had an edge far beyond what you call peace-loving stereotypical stuff; from Crown of Creation onward they became increasingly militant, and things like "House at Pooneil Corners," "Wooden Ships," and "Mexico" feel doomy and apocalyptic.

SP is a great record -- if you like the 2 big hits here I think you'd dig it. "She Has Funny Cars" and "3/5s of a Mile in 10 Seconds" are probably the 2 best known deeper cuts, but "DCBA-25" is my favorite song by them by a wide margin.

lol at sullen overlooked Marty in that clip

"She Has Funny Cars" and "3/5s of a Mile in 10 Seconds" are probably the 2 best known deeper cuts

Or maybe not, they got 1 vote each when we polled the album 6 years ago.

jefferson airplane were not about peace and love. they were about drugs and blues and loud electric volume.

"when the truth is found to be lies and all the joy within you dies"

"you and me we keep walking around and we see all the bullshit around, you try and keep your mind on what's going down"

"up against the wall motherfucker"

yeah such peace and love

they were also about "lead bass guitar"

"Comin Back To Me" is so good, dunno if that's rated

just get the first four with SLick, they're cheap and mostly worthwhile, 1st one is good too but more of a '66 vibe and different singer

clemenza otm about the dark edge, esp. palpable on Crown Of Creation and Volunteers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3thciHZ8Ve4

sorry, more JS, but this is essetial WTF-ness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Squ_pgiztRI

I'M ALIVE
I AM HUMAN
I WILL BE ALIVE AGAIN
So drop your fuckin' bombs
Burn your demon babies
I WILL BE AGAIN

one more lyric frag from mau mau:

HEY DICK
Whatever you think of us is totally irrelevant

I'd add the following to brimstead's list of lyrics, from the first song on their first album: "I can see my life was meant to fall apart some day."

blows against... is just awesome.

also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYr5D4lqC0w

"DCBA-25" is my favorite song by them by a wide margin.

Thought I was the only one that liked that one. The interplay between Marty and Grace is great. It's hard to describe but there's something about those earlier era songs - they're almost straight folk-rock but just turning a little colourful and psychedelic around the edges, giving a sense that things are about to change in a big way. There's a sharpness in those clean ringing guitars (very early solid state amps, believe it or not) that they lost after this album. It's a morning song, a San Francisco spring song - the air is cold but you can feel the sun's warmth on your skin.

re Sahm/Kantner, Sahm had better hair, glasses, more appealing voice, but K's voice, compared to Henry Kissinger's pretty early on, was effective contrast/grounding to Balin and Slick. Speaking of Signe etc., she's also featured on some of the live sets Collectors Choice brought out on CD in 2010, along with Slick's Airplane debut on stage. These discs, sold sep, really seemed like they would have done better as a single, maybe 2-CD release, because you get JA blowing sometimes it out in the first set, not so much in the late show, at least with some songs (as can happen to any band; see even VU's The Matrix Tapes). And some of this might not be as noticeable if we didn't get to do comparative studies. Nevertheless, lots of raw material for your very own Best of Live Series onesy, if you like: https://www.discogs.com/artist/58687-Jefferson-Airplane
After all that, listening to Bless Its Pointed Little Head again was even more amazing; it still seems like one of the very best albums to come out of that tyme & place-space.

I've never really given that live album a chance, I should check it out

When I was in college one of my friends got a compilation called Psychedelia: San Francisco Legends (which actually had very little psychedelia on it) for 4 quid, with 10 songs each by Jefferson Airplane, The Flamin' Groovies, canned Heat, and Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen.

http://cdn.discogs.com/PHinh-UUFTSkGWuXtKT-nOhFAPI=/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb()/discogs-images/R-468471-1423346154-8430.jpeg.jpg

The Jefferson Airplane songs were nearly all from Bless Its Pointed Little Head. I love the way Somebody To Love coalesces into this loose-limbed, rubbery jam driven by the bass. I think Casady and Kaukonen are more prominent on the live stuff in general than the early studio albums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV607yyUkI8

this song smokes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w25xghugIdg

YES

Trying to wrap my head around Volunteers. Seems like by this point the hippie dream was dead, songs veering from flimsy idealism (like the living on a farm track) to the bleak war commentary “hey Frederik”. One of their finest records

The first track also sounds a lot like zappas
“Mother people”

Surrealistic Pillow generally gets the most attention of all the Airplane records, but ...Baxters and Volunteers are more interesting, I think. When I listen to those records, I find it a bit comical and a bit sad that Grace Slick ended up in Starship.

And Crown of Creation!

All the albums through "Volunteers" are incredible. They were "one of those bands"...

(I also don't think "Living on the Farm" = flimsy idealism -- it's an ironic/"funny" song.)

^ yeah Morris I was poorly thinking out loud. It’s a fun song sure

(didn't mean to sound curt!) Listening to "Volunteers" right now -- "Hey, Frederick" is playing -- a thought I'm not sure I've ever written down is how much Grace sounds like Dagmar Krause in the bridge (when she sings, "How many MACHINE MEN will you see.....?").

jorma is such a force on volunteers

i found Volunteers and Bathing At Baxters thru my grandma's record collection (she's a yung one), and it was one of those mind-expanding moments for me—both in terms of my own listening habits and also realizing what my older relatives had been exposed to

like turrican said, neither of them get as much attention as Pillow, but to me they're huge validations of that time when psych was evolving into prog as something more than just "transitional"

Pillow is my least fave of that run actually (and I'm not saying that to be "interesting" or whatever, as I know it's the canonical choice; I've just never listened to it as much as the others). I think "Takes Off" is way underrated, love that one...

Baxters has been one of my favourite lps for the last few decades.
They were pretty great live in 68 too.

& I love the song Good Shepherd from Volunteers. As well as Hey frederick & Eskimo Blue Day. Gun Club covered that last one too.

I think Spencer Dryden is one of my all time favourite drummers. I don't like Joey Covington much seems to be too heavy handed and not as fluid or something.

Spencer was Charlie Chaplin's nephew apparently too.

There's so much to like about them, but I think Paul Kantner's songwriting is really my favorite aspect of the group. I haven't really studied it, but he seems to have a style that is very intricate and very much his own. He is so brilliant throughout the Baxter's album.

Yeah, those vocal lines are so distinctive... I don't think I was really attuned to his songwriting "voice" until I got into the Kantner/Slick/etc. offshoot stuff.

Seems like by this point the hippie dream was dead, songs veering from flimsy idealism (like the living on a farm track) to the bleak war commentary “hey Frederik”.

I think they got even bleaker and better after that: there was their 1970 single "Mexico" (rousing, but also bleak and weary), and--I'm probably alone on this--Bark's "Thunk" is brilliant.

I'm listening to Baxter's right now - the dual gtr break that comes in at 1:16 is so f'n gnarly

("Mexico" is an awesome song, btw -- the bridge kills me. "There are brothers everywhere...!")

I'm listening to Baxter's right now - the dual gtr break that comes in at 1:16 is so f'n gnarly
(^^I was referring to "The Last Wall of the Castle" in this post, btw)

...Baxter's is the one I listen to the most... 'Won't You Try/Saturday Afternoon'!

Can’t say I’ve heard Mexico, will check that out.

Baxter’s is so good - two heads may be my favourite grace vocal other than frederik

Mexico is AMAZING

Grace's piano balladry on Baxter's is also AMAZING. it is oddly one of their albums i listen to most now but in the past i was definitely into the earlier stuff.

sorry no apostrophe intended. "two heads" kills me

omg and actually i meant VOLUNTEERS when i was talking about Grace's piano balladry -- HEY FREDERICK is one of my most memorable moments from her.

#geekingout

All the airplane love makes me happy

Great Society is worth checking out too, I do love Darby Slick's guitar. Wish there was a lot more of it.
The solo Grunt label lps are pretty great too, or maybe that's trio plus and solo.

Hey Fredrick is such a stunner

Surm Im not quite sure this is up yr alley but you ever hear Silver Spoon?

Grace inventing goregrind w a grand piano in 1971, thats all..

https://youtu.be/7Is2OeUZ6Sg

Sunfighter is a great alb

Haven't listened to the whole thing since I bought it (30 years ago?), but the one song I love and keep on the hard drive is "When I Was a Boy I Watched the Wolves."

I was listening to it a couple of years ago around the same time i was listening to Howlin Rain and thinking it shared some qualities like a near gospel feel.
THink I was really thinking Manhole and Baron Von Tollbooth when I was saying Grunt label stuff. So should listen to it some more.

Manhole rules. So does Baron Von Tollbooth. And Dragonfly. And yeah, Sunfighter. I grew up on this stuff.

& the very early live sets by Jefferson Starship have the band playing tracks from at least Manhole live. I'm thinking of a few from 1974 that I have.

I looked at a bunch of albums over the weekend that a friend's brother was scrapping, and ended up taking about 50. Best of all was a perfect copy of Flight Log, poster/book included. I've got all the JA albums except 30 Seconds Over Winterland, so I already have most of it, but it's something I always wanted and never bought at the time. I really noticed "Have You Seen the Saucers" for the first time--I've had Early Flight for ages, but somehow it escaped my attention. (I love "Mexico" so much, I guess I got sidetracked.) Great song. Christgau praises it in one CG entry, makes fun of it the next. He got it right the first time.

Oops--it's not "Have You Seen the Saucers," it's "Have You Seen the Stars Tonite?" from Blows Against the Empire. Which I don't have, so that explains it.

That whole LP is klassic!

that album is great! it's a trip!

Blows really is a great album - I especially get a kick out of 'Mau Mau Amerikon' cause it's like everyone assumed 'We Can Be Together' was the pinnacle of Kantner's revolution-speak lyrics and he went 'pff, I was just getting started', haha. "Rabid lover-feelin' the starch in your grin Callin' for acid cocaine and grass" etc

Just listened to Manhole for the first time. This is killer! I feel as if - especially on the title track - this is how I always wanted to hear Grace Slick sing. Her obsession with Spanish music is right up front on those first two tracks.

RIP Marty Balin

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/jefferson-airplane-guitarist-marty-balin-dead-76-730912/

RIP Marty, goddamn what a voice.

RIP, gonna spin "Coming Back To Me" when I get home

What a voice, yes.

Today...I feel like pleasin you...more than before
Marty!

If you only you believe in Miracles...such a smooth yet haunted sounding voice.

so long marty, will always love those airplane records

Really saddened by this... such an amazing, smooth, sultry, sweet voice - whether on his own or as such a perfect counterpoint to Grace Slick. And an excellent songwriter too.

Damn, RIP

There's a nice Facebook post from Jorma Kaukonen that showed up on my wall twice removed. It's a little long...would it be a breach of some sort to post it here? It looks like it was meant to be widely disseminated.

Easily my favorite vocalist of that group. Grace tends toward stridency and Paul couldn't sing a lick. His was a fine, blue eyed soul voice. Besides the obvious JA material, i always liked, nay loved his mid to late 70s JStarship tunes also. And even his solo hit Hearts, which would make a fine song for Al Green himself!

Went down into the crowd to try to stop things at Altamont and got punched

Not only that, it looks like he got shoved off the stage @ around 4:40 in the clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLWhRDkJSWE

I love his voice, yeah. The combination of his and Slick's really makes some of the early Jefferson Starship stuff for me.

Seems like the world would have had a lot fewer people had "Miracles" not been written.

It's an amazing song, the way it builds and swells, and yeah the sexiness of it. Very unique. I remember precisely where I was when I first heard it and probably so do a lot of people

Today and With Your Love are my faves. eerie transcendent power of love.

Old enough that I bought Spitfire on release, just as I was beginning to love the Airplane via Worst Of.

After Bathing at Baxters is yer man innit.
Quite quite scrumptuous.

Long John Silver is a really solid album... sick guitar, great songs throughout.

Stash box 4 ever!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Jaljs.jpg

I bought a vinyl copy a couple months ago; the older clerk who checked me out paused to show his millennial employees the jacket photo of the weed and told them how lucky they were to not have to deal with such dirty, earthy pot.

Lol. A teachable moment

Listening to their Woodstock set now....

"All right, friends, you have seen the heavy groups... now you will see morning maniac music."

https://www.grammy.com/sites/com/files/styles/news_detail_header/public/jefferson_airplane_woodstock-51240095_1.jpg

the 21-minute performance of “Wooden Ships”... 🤯

"All right, friends, you have seen the heavy groups... now you will see morning maniac music."

The previous night's/that early morning's lineup was (in order) Creedence, Sly, the Who, and then the Airplane. Pretty decent stretch of entertainment.

I didn't seriously get into (or even hear a whole album by) Airplane until a year ago, and then suddenly I couldn't listen to anything but Baxter's, Crown, and Volunteers for weeks on end.

always had the toughest time finding my way into these fools but man i'm fucking pretty hard w Volunteers.

That’s the gateway.

dig it. also

I am listening to Volunteers and I'm here to tell you that Nicky Hopkins is THE SECRET WEAPON.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy),

otm

watched some clips of Slick on Letterman in the early-mid 80s. honestly she does seem cool af

man, I was otm in the oughts, what happened

Hey Fredrick and DCBA-25 are my top 2

There's this commercial for a cruise line I see a lot right now that uses "White Rabbit." Very disorienting--I still find "White Rabbit" to be an audacious and hypnotic song, and the commercial just glides by the lines about logic and proportion and feeding your head. I don't get it, unless they hand out hallucinogenics on this particular cruise line.

They should’ve used “Wooden Ships.”

i liek planes

Seaplanes...subaquarian boatcraft.

Baxters is yer man. Or anything live in 1968. I think they started jamming live sometime in 67 and progressively got better over that year. But were playing possibly too fast by 1969.
So 68 is peak them live for me. I think the same year is true for QMS and the Dead were quite good that year too. Also the Big Brother & the Holding Co live from that year is pretty great. Not sure who else. Maybe it's just peak ballroom in general, people having somewhat improved in playing over the previous year and some members changed for other bands. QMS got rid of Jimmy and Grateful Dead gained Micky Hart.
Airplane had pretty stable membership from late 66 to late 69. Think that later date is when Dryden goes and Covington joins though could be 70.
Only recently realised that Covington was only around for one lp before being replaced by Barbata. I find Covington a bit plodding and heavy handed after Dryden being dextrous and sublime,like.

On the topic of live 68 stuff, I had the luck to discover/watch a kinescope recording of an Airplane appearance on the Tonight Show from early 1968 at the Paley Center in NYC when I visited last year. It's part of an undated compilation of various 60s band appearances from the show, and when I talked to one of the curators about trying to dig up the exact date to help them, they didn't seem interested. This is the listing:

https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=jefferson&p=1&item=B:59554

At the beginning, Carson says: “Jefferson Airplane is one of the most important and influential rock groups around. Originally from San Francisco, they’ve got a big sound, as everybody in Rockefeller Center found out this afternoon when they were running through this. They will be appearing Friday and Saturday night um, where at, I don’t believe I have it here... (Grace and Paul say “Fillmore” off camera) oh, yeah I’ve got it here, Fillmore East, so if you’re in the New York area you might want to drop over, would you welcome please, Jefferson Airplane!”

The performance is live and it kills. The set is really, really weird, with a rocking horse on the stage, a brass bed and lots of beads, random 'hip' junk etc. They open with a really slow version of Today, half the band hidden in the shadows wearing shades. They segue right into Somebody to Love and Grace is in top form, baiting the audience, saying "pick out the guy next to you, get somebody to love - what, is he too fat?". She's also wearing a military jacket with a grenade pinned to the pocket, as seen here:

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/news-photo/american-rock-singer-grace-slick-the-lead-vocalist-of-the-news-photo/2996509

There's actually audio floating around of this, mistakenly labeled as coming from the Jonathan Winters show - Crown of Creation at the end is from the Smothers Brothers show:

https://ia801203.us.archive.org/17/items/JeffersonAirplane1968JonathanWintersShowLosAngelesCA/JeffersonAirplane1968JonathanWintersShowLosAngelesCA.mp3?cnt=0

Anyways, as there's pretty much no chance of this ever being 'released' unfortunately, I'd definitely recommend going over to see it if you get a chance.

They played the Fillmore East May 3 and 4 (Fri/Sat), 1968 so the Tonight Show spot would've been just prior

man, I was otm in the oughts, what happened

better to be otm then not, than never to be otm at all is what i say.

dig it. also

/I am listening to Volunteers and I'm here to tell you that Nicky Hopkins is THE SECRET WEAPON.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), /

otm

Not sure this has been posted before, but if ye've never seen the Goddard-filmed rooftop concert in NYC 1968, it is awesome. Jack Cassidy is the coolest ever.

https://youtu.be/vuwMEiNg3B8

jack & jorma (and grace obv) look cool as shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYsQJIdgApY

Get you there on time.

Man this is so good. The whole band, everyone's in sync and fired up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9CVLVevm4E

OTM. I used to limit my Airplane appreciaton but once I checked out some live stuff my head exploded.

Still way into Sweeping Up the Spotlight. May put it now.

I agree, their appearance in Monterey Pop is great. (The whole film also encapsulates everything good about the '60s counterculture, catching it early on when it still looked promising and utopian. It's still my favorite concert documentary outside of Stop Making Sense.)

The expanded CD of Bless Its Pointed Little Head is also recommended. I'm actually not a complete convert of the band - they're more or less a time capsule wholly representative of that era for reasons good and bad - but they could put on a great show and Monterey Pop and Bless Its Pointed Little Head are probably the best examples of that. Otherwise, the only studio LP I find wholly satisfying is Surrealistic Pillow (mono mix is ideal, MFSL's SACD is excellent and I got it for only $15).

An imperfect vehicle for sure, but for those couple of blazing years they were pretty special. And I agree about Monterey Pop, it's right on the cusp — documenting the scene and also documenting in real time the commodification of the scene. Such a great movie.

Absolutely. That run of albums from Surrealistic Pillow through Volunteers really is special, and even if three of those LP's feel a bit flawed and uneven to me, they're still a fascinating listen. ("Volunteers" was probably the first Airplane song I listened to long before I heard anything else, most likely because of the Forrest Gump soundtrack. I thought it was great and still enjoy it quite a bit.)

The band was probably my first real introduction to San Francisco in the psychedelic era, and as a kid growing up away from the city in the Midwest, it was like Mars, completely alien to anything I was familiar with and probably the kind of world that would've scared the shit out of my parents. They may be a time capsule, but I don't think time capsules are necessarily a bad thing - their best work can be pretty great simply for freezing that time on record and making it sound alive and exciting rather than forgotten.

Long John Silver is a really solid album... sick guitar, great songs throughout.

I found it mostly lackluster; you can argue with the slickness of Jefferson Starship, but by 1973 they needed a change from these desultory, hookless loose jams coated in non-stop lead guitar. They'd been pursuing that style since Volunteers and it was used up.

I mean to check out Baron von Tollbooth & the Chrome Nun to see where it falls in the Airplane/Starship continuum.

I love these guys 90% of the time, but I went to listen to a concert of theirs at Wolfgang's Vault and thought it was the most horriblest shit in the world. I like them a lot better in the studio than live.

― Rock Hardy, Friday, September 14, 2007 8:52 PM (fifteen years ago)

The Monterey "High Flyin' Bird" tipsy posted is good but I still agree with 2007 me. Balin and Slick wrestle control away from the instrumentalists onstage and unbalance the performance.

I like planes

Long John Silver is pretty bad. Even the “best” song, “Eat Starch Mom,” is basically a rewrite of “Plastic Fantastic Lover.”

"Alexander the Medium" would be the one song I'd save.

That one to me just sounds like a slightly tweaked/improved version of “When the Earth Moves Again,” from the previous album (which was itself just a degraded carbon copy of “We Can Be Together”).

I love this band, but it’s hard to think of a better example of “spent creative energies” than those two post-Volunteers LPs (notwithstanding the incomparably bitchin’ “Law Man”).

It’s odd they never put “High Flyin’ Bird” on any of their main albums, bc that’s gotta be one of their hottest tracks.

Yeah pretty odd. IIRC they recorded a version of it for their debut (with Signe Toly Anderson on vocals and Skip Spence on drums), but they left it off the album. (The outtake was eventually released in 1974 on Early Flight.) They could've at least re-recorded it for a B-side or something.

xp But yeah, no getting around that steep decline, one that's sadly reflected in any compilation that tries to cover the whole lifespan of the band. I'm not a Jefferson Starship fan, but I can't say their work after Volunteers made a great case for them to continue on.

Not sure I’ve even heard anything post-Volunteers tbh.

I absolutely love (the admittedly bizarre--not for everyone) "Thunk" from Bark.

Even the “best” song, “Eat Starch Mom,” is basically a rewrite of “Plastic Fantastic Lover.”

Is that one of the earliest anti-hippie trolling songs (outside of Zappa)?:

"You say nothing's right but natural things
Ah, you fool
Poison oak is a natural plant
Why don't you put some in your food?
Natural food makes you slow and stupid and it tastes like cabbage
I don't care if there's chemicals in it
As long as my lettuce is crisp"

I absolutely love (the admittedly bizarre--not for everyone) "Thunk" from Bark.

I absolutely love (the admittedly bizarre--not for everyone) "Never Argue with a German If You're Tired or European Song" from Bark. It's admirable how Grace Slick wrote such a beautiful melody and chord progression and then resolved to present it in as obnoxious a manner as possible.

Is that one of the earliest anti-hippie trolling songs

I think I think that verse may be in the voice of the car-loving guy?

this revive inspired me to grab the Complete Monterey bluray from that Criterion B&N sale, so thanks

Early Flight is kind of essential! I am also partial to the mono Takes Off

For a long time, the only LP where you could get "Runnin' Round This World" and "Mexico," two of their greatest.

It’s funny how they put those three later songs on a comp called Early Flight

FWIW, The Essential Jefferson Airplane is actually a really solid overview of their career, even though there's an inevitable dip in quality towards the end. I'd probably add a few more selections from Surrealistic Pillow, Baxter's and Crown of Creation, and I think Surrealistic Pillow and probably Baxter's sound better in their original mono mixes (the stereo mixes feel a bit diffuse and they load too much echo on the former). But beyond that, the two-hour set nearly has all the "essentials."

If you're looking for a really good live period I'd pick sometime in 1968. Seems that they found their flow live then. I think they had started intentionally improvising at some point in 67 and found out how to do it really well by 68. By 69 you get to a point where people are complaining that they play too fast which I think must go against interplay and what's worse by the end of the year they replace one of my all time favourite drummers with someone I just find thudding. I think Joey Covington's replacement John Barbata is better but by then it's no longer the same band.

Spencer Dryden was Charlie Chaplin's nephew oddly enough. I'm not sure if the rest of teh band knew that at the time.
I think he wound up with a drink problem which may be one reason he got replaced. Shame cos I do love his tone. He's one of a few drummers that really stick out for me.

Looks like I was a couple of months out on Dryden's departure it's actually early 70 not late 69.
He's an awesome drummer anyway. I have still never connected with Joey Covington who was supposed to be a harder hitter I think. He'd been in the early stages of the band version of Hot Tuna if I'm remembering right which must mean Cassady and Kaukonen liked him presumably,
I do enjoy hearing Dryden rather than him just being a decent time keeper. oh well.

Does anyone have a copy (digital or otherwise!) of Kantner's self-published science fiction novel...? This is proving really hard to track down.

As far as I can tell it was released as an extra feature on a self-released CDR reissue of his PERRO album, which no one seems to own...

https://www.discogs.com/release/13045080-Paul-Kantner-PERRO

and it seems to have been available at one point as a print-on-demand thing...

https://web.archive.org/web/20081218050357/http://www.planetearthrockandroll.com/

There's a preview, with scans of the entire first "chapter" available here. Looks utterly demented.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080607064028fw_/http://www.jeffersonstarshipsf.com/perro/chpt01.htm

Might be of interest to folks in this thread:

Here is an album reconstruction from the quintessential American psychedelic band, Jefferson Airplane. This is a reconstruction of Jefferson Airplane’s relatively un-made album, intended to be released in 1970. ... The resulting album–which I call Another Missile is Flying–is an excellent upgrade from the oft-dismal Bark, continues the trajectory of Volunteers, and incorporates the best parts of Blows Against The Empire.

Side A:
1. Have You Seen The Saucers?
2. Up or Down
3. Sunrise
4. Starship

Side B:
5. Bludgeon of a Bluecoat
6. Emergency
7. Mexico
8. Pretty As You Feel
9. Mau Mau (Amerikon)

^^ loving that, thanks! that guy is doing the lord's work

where's the link to download that?

buried in an inscrutable Google Doc link in the comments

got it, thanks

Giving a spin to Crown of Creation this past week, I only noticed that Al Schmidt produced that one. That seems a bit of a culture shock type pairing considering the long list of artists he worked with. Hippies meeting the straights I suppose…

Schmitt did several with them (including Volunteers). Here’s what the Jeff Tamarkin book says about how he got started with the group:

https://i.imgur.com/APAN4FF_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand

Pretty hip. Did not know he was a big part of getting them signed.

Al Schmitt was just the coolest.

That's a good book. I wasn't aware of Bless Its Pointed Little Head until I read Tamarkin's praises of it. It's one of three JA albums that I've always owned, along with Surrealistic Pillow (mono edition) and Volunteers.

Incredible version of "It's No Secret" on there.

I like them a lot better in the studio than live.

― Rock Hardy, Friday, September 14, 2007 8:52 PM (sixteen years ago)

I would just like to say I was otm in this thread.

There are a couple of later vintage Jefferson Airplane Fillmore releases. The one from 68 sounds pretty thin but the 69 one is pretty good.

I think it and Bless Its Pointed… kind of give you an idea what it might liked to be at one of those ballroom shows. Jack Cassady is a beast and those live records get to show more what him and Jorma could do.

I have tried and failed to like Pointed Little Head, but I remember some good live tracks on that 90's box set?

their version of "High Flying Bird" at Monterey is so rad, why the heck was this left off the album

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F51JKnSzjRs

by "the album" I mean that the song itself was never on an LP, why was it not on Surrealistic Pillow or Bathing idk

They even cut it in the studio with Signe for Takes Off!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL1vGiRYlbA

yeah I think it was (insanely) relegated to a B-side

no I guess an outtake?!? even more insane

btw this is where I mention that Early Flight also rules and is essential

yeah for sure, absolutely love their “high flying bird”, Marty and grace go hard

Also: “HAVE YOU SEEN THE SAUCERS”

Also: JA RULES

The chord progression and feel is so evocative, it seems to me there should have been some long 12 minute modal jam of “White Rabbit”.

The Airplane had the tunes but were a bit more reserved on the jams. Quicksilver had the jams but did not have the tunes.

The Great Society version of "White Rabbit" has extended groove jam opening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxxnDGWI3e8

If you're a Grace fan, that Great Society live twofer live CD is a must.

Yeah that’s a great disc.

Say, can I have some of your purple berries?
Yes, I've been eating them for six or seven weeks now
Haven't got sick once
Probably keep us both alive

I was thinking about this line from "Wooden Ships" last night; how it represents the strength the counterculture derived from the continuum of rock music history up to that point (from Chuck Berry to Deep Purple.

(fwiw, took some doing, but I tracked down the 516-page Kantner book. b/w scans of 516 8x11 pages of text with drawings (by Kantner), hieroglyphics, etc. in a single PDF. If you need it, get in touch.)

For a quick overview of this acid-deranged/visionary project, which was a sequel to Blows Against the Empire: Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra (album)