Why does anyone like the Fall?

But then, I tend to like things that sound like rubbish to most people.

No hooks? What about "Barmy" or "2x4?"

Seriously though, perhaps name one or two bands that you do like?

The appeal of the Fall, broken down:

1) Heavy emphasis on rhythm and spoken word - sort of like a purely British of rap.

2) One of the best punk vocalists of all time.

3) Excellent lyrics, often brilliant packaging.

there is no other band i can think of who have recorded several HUNDRED tracks i like, as opposed to a handful, a dozen or even a few albums worth. and still the lyrics can be endlessly original.

Be warned - if you're looking for stodgy professionalism & precision in the Fall's method of madness, then backtracking to their earlier releases is not what you want to do. If fact, if you come around to liking / loving / wanting to spoon w/ the Fall, it's this very lack of precision & professionalism that you'll probably fall for 1st.

And the drummer goes whomp-a-whomp-a-whommmp-a.

I guess I'm easy to please.

(Subthread: Great songs about The Fall: "Mark E. Smith & Brix," Barbara Manning)

What I'm more curious about is how the Fall have such serious devotees. Their formula seems to me to result in pretty wide stretches of less-than-necessary stuff, and it's static enough to leave me pretty confident that, say, a two-disc comp of highlights is more than any person could ever need of them. The dedication of their fans, on the other hand, makes me wonder: are there really little gems scattered all through the discography, enough little shifts of personality to make slogging through the whole thing worth it? The fact that people remember the names of their individual songs so readily would lead me to believe they must settle into very different places, but god, my limited Fall listening has not given me much indication that that's the case.

(Good way of testing this, I guess: start an "essential Fall" thread and see how lively and specific and Smiths-like the debate over what tracks count can get.)

In a word, yes. Sometimes it is often necessary to immerse oneself in a prolific artist's work to fully understand it all. Mark E Smith has changed a lot over the past 30 years, and it shows in his work. The Fall certainly can reward those with a casual interest, but if you really want to appreciate the nuances and details, you can't just be a dilletant with a best-of cd.

(Jess's list is pretty cool, by the way)

If you start an "essential Fall" thread, you will find that a lot of people like a lot of different Fall songs, and it probably won't make getting through the huge discography any easier on you.

and i swear this has nothing to do with them being cassettes

Extricate is pretty weak, I'll admit.

First Fall I ever heard was _The Wonderful and Frightening World..._, which did nothing for me at the time. _Palace of Swords Reversed_ was my conversion experience.

1. Prole Art Threat (1981)
2. How I Wrote “Elastic Man” (1979)
3. Totally Wired (1981)
4. Inch (1999)
5. Fortress/Deer Park (1982)
6. New Face In Hell (1980)
7. Free Ranger (1992)
8. Black Monk Theme, pt. 1 (1990)
9. Masquerade (1998)
10. U.S. ’80s-’90s (1986)
11. Kimble (1993)
12. Slang-King (1984)
13. Repetition (1977)
14. Hit The North (1988)
15. Leave The Capitol (1981)
16. Edinburgh Man (1991)
17. Put Away (1978)

I believe almost every band I've ever been in has covered a Fall song at some point, and sometimes it wasn't even my idea... I have vivid memories of playing "U.S. '80s-'90s," "Frightened" and "Fantastic Life."

The Classical
New Face In Hell
I'm Into CB!
Repetition
I Am Damo Suzuki
New Face In Hell
Hip Priest
Couldn't Get Ahead
Dr. Buck's Letter
Living Too Late
Hit The North
Cruiser's Creek (live from Seminal Live lp)
Dktr Faustus
CREEP
Clear Off!
Oh! Brother
Impression of J. Temperance
Prole Art Threat

Hopefully this, in addition to what Douglas and others are posting, will give you a nice long list of songs to download from your favorite p2p.

That's a Kinks song, Mike!

Anyway, I think the hype is a bit overblown, and they sound like absolute shit on pot, but they have their moments. Eh.

1) “steppin out”
2) “rebellious jukebox”
3) “dice man”
4) “rowche rumble-live”
5) “pay your rates”
6) “fit and working again”
7) “totally wired”
8) “the classical”
9) “room to live”
10) “lie dream of the casino soul”
11) “i feel voxish”
12) “c.r.e.e.p.”
13) “rollin’ dany”

14) “couldn’t get ahead”
15) “living too late”
16) “frenz”
17) “wrong place, right time”
18) “dead beat descendant”
19) “black monk theme part I”
20) “free range”
21) “strychnine”
22) “hey student!”
23) “life just bounces”
24) “spinetrak”
25) “touch sensitive”
26) “hands up billy”

Ah, lovely. I would happily shell out for a Fall boxset of Peel Sessions from then to now.

Would you believe... USA Today?

that said i still like tons of their songs, for reasons stated elsewhere in this thread.

I used to do Fall tribute radio shows while on WFMU. You can check one of them out here.

It's exciting stuff.

I picked up the Rough Trade years anthology when it came out not long ago and it comes off like a perfect mix tape. I listen to it all the time. Definitely a great starting point.

You should get Dragnet. It's the best Fall album AND it has 'A Figure Walks' and 'Muzorewi's Daughter' which I think you'd like.

It also has a really grainy, monochrome sound and lots of Mike Leigh's 'a row of terraced houses falling down' drum rolls. If anyone tells you it's really badly recorded they're nuts. It's PERFECT.

You guys will not appreciate this, but it occurs to me: I've never seen anyone writing about Beat Happening mention how Fall-like they can be. Primitive tom-thump, gorilla-handed repeating riff, singer moaning and sneering . . . throw "Bewitched" into a Fall playlist and it sits comfortably. I mention this mostly because I imagine many of you don't like Beat Happening.

Early Fall - help me make a definitive C90
Fall (post-1985 / compilations): Search & Destroy
What are the best 10 Fall tracks of all time then?
best Fall album for starters

Felcher, you might be interested in this:

Are The Fall the most overrated band in the history of music?

But maybe you just need to jump ahead on the CD until it starts to click. On This Nation's Saving Grace (one of the best records ever made) .. just listen to L.A. and Gut of the Quantifier.. two pretty accessible tracks.

Also, listen to it on Vinyl. The ordering on the CD sucks and the extra tracks ruined it.

A request for MES:

we are in a band called the fall from norfolk, va and we are signed to an independent label..just wanted to let you know....maybe you can change your name to the fall uk so it does not conflict..thanks for your time

okay, but put a gun to my head? probably the wonderful and frightening world, prolly because it was really the first full album i got into back when it came out...still trying to find the peel mix of c.r.e.e.p...okay i haven't looked that hard, but it's the best one.

it would be a better world if the same attention endlessly lavished on, say, pet sounds, was spread like thick marmite on this nations saving grace.

long live the mighty fall!

skip

it's really not a matter of opinion --it's a fact that if you don't dig the fall, well, you're really somehow...how you say....deficient.

skip

I like the Fall, and I like Beat Happening.. and I like the former far more than the latter. And you do have a point, in relation to more mid 80s Fall, though I think there's still this question of ferocity and layers that Beat Happening don't have (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but certainly a crucial difference IMGO)

The best thing about this thread is how you know there's going to be a revive later saying 'ah, wait, I got it!'.

Can someone invent a word for this?

Btw, can anyone think of a best-of that puts its subject in a better possible light than 50,000 Fall fans?

Live at the Witch Trials
Dragnet
Grotesque
Hex Enduction Hour
Perverted by Language
The Wonderful and Frightening World of the Fall
This Nation's Saving Grace
Bend Sinister
The Frenz Experiment
I Am Kurious, Oranj
Extricate
Shift Work
Code: Selfish
The Infotainment Scan
Middle Class Revolt
Cererbral Caustic
The Light User Syndrome

That takes us up through the end of the Scanlon/Hanley/Brix/etc. eras, at least.

I would happily shell out for a Fall boxset of Peel Sessions from then to now.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), June 17th, 2003.

How nice that my prediction is coming true.

That makes for a curious x-post. "How nice for the Fall box!" "I TREMBLE IN MOCK TERROR!"

"OH I'M SCARED NOW LONGHAIR SHOEGAZE FREAK!"

not many. ChangesOneBowie and Star Time are the immediate ones that come to mind--taking really good catalogues and trimming them down to blindsiding ones. I think JB and Bowie and the Fall are all terrific but there's lots of fat on all of them. (The Bowie is qualified by its coming out in 1976)
-- Matos-Webster Dictionary (michaelangelomato...), January 28th, 2005.

Live at the Witch Trials
Dragnet
Grotesque
Hex Enduction Hour
Perverted by Language
The Wonderful and Frightening World of the Fall
This Nation's Saving Grace
Bend Sinister
The Frenz Experiment
I Am Kurious, Oranj
Extricate
Shift Work
Code: Selfish
The Infotainment Scan
Middle Class Revolt
Cererbral Caustic
The Light User Syndrome

That takes us up through the end of the Scanlon/Hanley/Brix/etc. eras, at least.

-- Tim Ellison (timejeanne...), January 28th, 2005.

Oh, I like the music; it's just that voice. For precisely the same reason, I can't listen to LCD Soundsystem, despite liking the music. Oh, and they're definitely overrated.

-- Matos-Webster Dictionary (michaelangelomato...), January 28th, 2005.

Those are good picks and I just thought of another one, which will probably not be popular on a Fall thread but still it's TRUE!!:

The 2-disc Chronicles Rush best-of that came out in the early 90s. Fucking great job of making them seem flawless!

'Because they sound like absolute shit on pot.' by Kris

and my comment is... exactly! That's what makes this one of my favorite bands, they're out there to annoy the fuck out of people, they have no tolerance, and they don't give a shit about what you think! I've seen them live only once, and it was one of the shittiest, most slack off live shows I'd ever seen, which is precisely why I'm going back.

yeah, but they talk back!

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), June 17th, 2003.

HOORAY FOR WISHES THAT COME TRUE!

Is it just me or would this sound really great delievered as a "Sonic Attack"-style hilariously overblown super-serious spoken word track? And having some other guy deliver certain lines in that high sleazy evil voice? You know..."upon a coyote's head!"

I don't think that's true, really. The initial transformation from the early punk band into the more avant-garde band that made Room to Live and Perverted by Language was gradual and every record, in retrospect, represents some type of interesting step. The transformation into a pop band with The Wonderful and Frightening World of the Fall was surely unexpected, and I find their stylistic evolution-- album to album -- through the eighties and the first half of the nineties to be fairly continual.

----

July 2, 1994
REBELLIOUS JUKEBOX

Check the guy's track record-ah! Mark E Smith of the Fall picks the discs that he lugs around in his carrier bag.

1. THE WALKING SEEDS, "Tantric Wipeout"

"It's five years old now, this. The Walking Seeds were great until they went all f***ing grunge. One of 'em went on to be in the La's, you know. I don't like that many Liverpool bands, cos...well, it's Liverpool, innit? I never went for Julian Cope, Ian McCulloch, all that stuff. Walking Seeds were all right, though. What's that you say -- tantric sex is where you have it off in stages? You kiss the first day, fondle the second, gradually get more intimate? You're getting very prurient, you, aren't you? Stick to writing about music!"

2. BONEY M, "Rasputin"

"I like the way they tackled all the big issues, Boney M. The fall of the Russian tsarist system, and stuff like that. Did you know they even had a song about Belfast? What was it called? It was called 'Belfast.' No, they didn't really suggest any new solutions. Somebody told me Boney M are dead popular in Russia. I've just been to Lithuania and it was really strange. It's just full of drunken unemployed soldiers. Mind you, they were all concentration camp guards, weren't they, the Lithuanians? Anyway, Boney M, I think 2 Unlimited are a lot like them."

3. I LUDICROUS, "Preposterous Tales"

"They're very funny, I Ludicrous, and I like a lot of their stuff. They rip off the Fall a lot, ripping off riffs and everything, but I don't mind that because they make me laugh. If it makes me laugh, it's OK. That's a good basic rule. Pavement don't make me laugh. They don't make me angry, though. I can't get angry anymore about people copying the Fall because there's just been so many. We've been ripped off so many times. I Ludicrous are a good funny Northern band. Like the Macc Lads? Well, it's not quite the same thing, is it?"

4. VISNADI, "Hunt is Up"

"This is an Italian rave record which is around at the moment. Yeah, that's right, a rave record. Why shouldn't I like a rave record? I've been getting into loads of Italian stuff lately. I'm not normally into rave music, though. I mean, it just sort of plods, doesn't it? I don't do a lot of clubbing, but I have been doing a bit of DJin lately, around Manchester. People just keep asking me to do it. F*** knows why. I just turn up and start playing Italian rave records and rockabilly! Ha! That does their f***ing heads in!"

5. LEE HAZELWOOD AND NANCY SINATRA, "Sundown"

"I think Lee Hazelwood was really, really good. I love the way this song's got this big, dead camp cinematic production. Nancy Sinatra was all right, as well. She'd got a bit of talent. She didn't just sponge off her dad's name. I couldn't stand that f***ing 'Boots are Made for Walkin' nonsense, though. Lee Hazelwood always sounds to me like a really wired, wiped-out Johnny Cash. Yeah, I always liked him as well. He's back and he's hip now? Is he really? F***ing hell!"

6. THE MOVE, "Night of Fear"

"I like this one because I think it sounds just like Birmingham. What do you mean, that's no reason to like a record? No, I think Birmingham's very underrated, me. I liked the Move and early Electric Light Orchestra as well, before they turned totally rockist and crap. I even liked Wizzard. Actually, Roy Wood has been playing around my way lately, with some new band he's just knocked together. I've not seen them myself, but the rest of the Fall went down the other night and said they were great, really good. They've got a cello section and everything. Here, why are you laughing?"

7. LINK WRAY, "Jack the Ripper"

"Yeah, he's one of the real rock grandads, isn't he? I think he's brilliant. He's a Red Indian, and he makes all his own guitars. He lives in Denmark now, apparently. No, I don't know why -- why should I? I've met him. Was he mad? No, not at all, show some respect! He was a dead nice bloke. He used to make instrumental records that got banned for being too un-record player friendly, because they were too full of distortion and shit like that, hahaha! Link Wray is the only man who can get records banned without even writing f***ing lyrics! He's a hero, a really great man!"

8. MARVIN RAINWATER, "My Brand of Blues"

"This is an old country and western rockabilly song and it's brilliant. He just plays one chord all the way through. Yeah, I know a lot of country and western is totally trite, sentimental slop, but it depends what kind of country and western you listen to, doesn't it, cock? I know 90 percent of country music is shit, but 90 percent of any kind of music is shit, isn't it? I haven't even got that many records. I throw a lot of stuff away. I mean, you've got to, haven't you?"

9. THE DRIVING STUPIDS, "The Reality of Air-Fried Borscht"

"What do you mean, it's a Fall record title? No it's not, it doesn't mean anything! What's borscht -- some kind of Russian stew, isn't it? The Driving Stupids are an early seventies psychedelic band, and this is the most over the top record I've ever heard in my entire life. Did I ever see them live? No, I think they were probably dead before I ever left school, you cheeky get. So how did I first hear about them? John Peel? No, I educate myself, mate. Always have."

10. THE FALL, "Rebellious Jukebox"

"For obvious reasons, really. This is the first song I ever wrote on guitar. I'd never let the Fall play it live now, mind. And no, I don't mind you naming your Melody Maker features after a Fall song and ripping us off week after week? Why not? Everybody else does it..."

i prefer the race marbles (both of them), or the nightcrawlers though

of course, cosmic michael is better than all of them

I'm hungry for something all of a sudden. I don't know what.

yeah...North Croydon!

too late.

My friend said the Fall are playing here in May. Now do you think I am not going? Because of course I bloody well am. Even if it's crap I'm still going.

Tues. / May 2nd Austin, TX Stubb's Small Room
Thurs. / May 4th Dallas, TX Gypsy Tea Room
Fri. / May 5th El Paso , TX Devil Bar
Sat. / May 6th Tucson, AZ Rialto Theatre
Sun. / May 7th Phoenix, AZ Scene is Dead Concerts
Tues. / May 9th San Diego, CA House of Blues
Thurs. / May 11th Anaheim, CA House of Blues
Sat. / May 13th Los Angeles, CA Knitting Factory
Sun. / May 14th San Francisco, CA The Independent
Tues. / May 16th Portland, OR True West
Thurs. / May 18th Seattle, WA El Corazon
Sat. / May 20th Vancouver, BC Richards @ Richards
Mon. / May 22nd Edmonton, Alberta Starlite Room
Tues. / May 23rd Calgary, Alberta Warhouse
Thurs. / May 25th Salt Lake City, UT The Depot
Sat. / May 27th Denver, CO Bender's Tavern
Tues. / May 30th Chicago, IL House of Blues
Thurs. / Jun. 1st NY, NY Knitting Factory

I'll be at Dallas for sure.

For confirmation that Will and John are indeed southern softies.

I've just spent 86 of my 90 emusic downloads this month on The Fall.

"I just like that he says "-ah" at the end of every line.
And the drummer goes whomp-a-whomp-a-whommmp-a."

These appraisals of thee mighty Fall made me laugh out loud at my desk at work...a rare and usually discouraged action, need I say.

Even so, my favorite description of their sound - at least during the 80's - has to be courtesy the disgustingly brill online rockcrit Mark Prindle:
"'Dang dang dang'...that's Brix Smith's guitar sound. Might like it, might hate it - 'sup to you."
Hehe...

I like cheese hotdogs AND The Fall [for the most part], but I'm not sure if there's a connection between those things. I also like cheese Ritz Bits and Dog-Faced Hermans. If you see a pattern, let me know. :-)

I wonder how Mark E. Smith feels about the Idle Race... Maybe a bit better than the Move, IMHO.

What song does he namecheck Idle Race in-- I can't remember. It's an early one, right?

I love Dog Faced Hermans but abhor a cheese Ritz Bit.

Disagree. The Move are better.

surely not better than the fall though?

I'm not sure about a song, but Mark mentions loiking an Idle Race song in an interview or poll way upthread.

The Move v. Idle Race question is one that I waffle on a bit, but there is one Idle Race song in particular that completely shatters me. Its on the 2nd Nuggets box, called "Day of Broken Arrows" or words to that effect [don't have it in front of me]. Infinitely sublime. One of the best 'power-pop' toonz in the galaxy.

:-/

http://thefallenblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/revealed-after-34-years-identity-and.html

aw, that's very sad.

yeah very sad, but glad at least he's finally known

I probably should have floated this idea sooner, but I'm now two days in to 28 Fall Studio Albums in 28 Days of February. I've heard them all at one point or another, but for some it's been a while, and others only got a cursory listen or two. So far, Dragnet is a whole lot better than I'd remembered... Anyway, seemed like a worthwhile project to fill out the dreariest month.

I purchased and listened to Hex Induction Hour and This Nation's Saving Grace. If I didn't like those, are the chances pretty good that I won't like any of their later works as well? Or did they change radically over the ensuing decades?

Hmm, there are a number of albums that are 'different' outposts.

This Nat is one of the easiest to listen to, I'd say.

And Hex isn't

guess it depends on how you feel about the voice really. from the 90s onward there's rather more of a desire to play with existing or contemporary forms (baggy, electronic, indie-ish stuff) rather than that dynamic primal abrasiveness that characterised their earlier years.

that's a little bald perhaps - it's still heavily Fall flavoured - but it's emblematic of a perceived softer edge to their music. It's perhaps why a lot of Fall fans will tend to prefer the early stuff.

If you wanted to try some stuff a bit different from Hex or TNSG, try Shift Work, Infotainment Scan, or the extremely appealing and successful The Unutterable. xpost.

I still amaze the kids when they watch the Gok shows with my "She used to be in the Fall, you know"

"She used to be married to this"

*shows picture of Mark E. Smith, kids scream and complain of bad dreams later that night*

ah, but back then : http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vdy5PdGb6vw/S2MkzM9lcwI/AAAAAAAAApQ/xpzDMVW-LMc/s640/brix+3.jpg

ah, remember the days you'd consider someone had possibly "sold-out" because they stopped looking ill, started wearing nice clothes and eating regular meals regularly?

Ok, I'm from the US where the album in question had a pretty low profile, but the "White Lightening" cover is just killing me. Amazed I'd never heard it before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YmMsmKGEt4

Shiftwork is in my top 5 albums of theirs, I just love almost everything on it. I don't know if they ever approached the kind of tender beauty that you hear on "Rose" on subsequent records (although the closer off their last one comes close).

I think you definitely hear that on the next two albums, too: "Time Enough at Last," "Just Waiting," "Gentleman's Agreement," "I'm Going to Spain," and "Service."

Funny, this is yet another thread where the person who started it never comes back. Weird phenomenon.

I change up the sequence on it, admittedly, but Dragnet still is my 2nd favourite album of all time...

Funny, this is yet another thread where the person who started it never comes back. Weird phenomenon.

― Evan, Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Actually...

Oops.

http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/2012/07/23/perhaps-someday-an-internet-search-engine-will-be-invented-that-will-prevent-these-misunderstandings/

And here I thought Mark E Smith was just being paranoid when he says everyone's trying to rip off The Fall.

Re-Mit is pretty solid, as usual!

Yes! I'm really enjoying it after the first few listens. "Jetplane" is the standout track for me, so far.

Madness. It's fucking awful. And I haven't said that since the 90s.

Funny, every album gets his..

gets this, I mean

yeah the consensus favorites only emerge after a decade or two, if they ever do

is there a single fall album all fans can agree on? hex enduction hour? maybe bend sinister?

i would submit the unutterable but i fear many have not even heard it.

is there a single fall album all fans can agree on? hex enduction hour? maybe bend sinister?

No. No. No.

In tests, 26 out of 29 fall fans who expressed a preference, voted "Slates"

In tests, 27 out of 29 fall fans who expressed a preference, voted "This nation's Saving Grace"

(Other fall albums are available)

I've never heard of The Fall, but according to allmusic, they were influenced by Pink Floyd. What is the best place to start for a Pink Floyd fan?

not listening to The Fall, I would say. (not sure how Allmusic came to that conclusion about PF being an influence)

Well, that would be that Chiselers/Chilinists one wouldn't it xp

Well Floyd did have that one song, all in all you're just a Brix in the Fall

He's quick, that lad

xp ouch

I did wince as I typed that one out, sorry

LOL

Pink Floyd are short,anyway

Short of what?

okay, here's an attempt at a more helpful answer HL: at a stretch, This Nation's Saving Grace has elements of the "psychedelia gone wrong" that Barrett-era Floyd dealt in. It's a pretty big leap though, and I'm sure people will disagree vehemently (always the way with anything Fall-related).

They are also said to be influenced by the Beatles. What is the Fall's entry into Beatlesque pop?

their amazing cover of "a A Day in the Life" probably.

Bollocks to both of those (xp)

Upon first listen, the best tracks were on the Record Store Day single. The rest of the album is studio noodling.

I would recommend Grotesque to a newbie. The music is more straight-ahead punk/rockabilly, and the lyrical content is clear, and - blob 59 excepted - relatively murk-free. Also, if the words don't have you hooked, you'll never get the fall.

I have had luck with introducing people to the Fall through Grotesque.

That's a good question... what are the best Fall starter-albums for new listeners?

Grotesque makes sense... I'd probably add TNSG, Frenz, Infotainment as being "easy-ish" to start with.
Not their best stuff necessarily, but a relatively painless entry for people? 50,000 Fall Fans would probably work well too. Who knows!

50,000 Fall Fans is a well-curated comp, containing many titles I had read about in various places. Definitely sufficient for me to ascertain that, aside from a few random cuts, they're never going to be my thing.

My first Fall album was 'Seminal Live.' Was in the $3.99 cassette bin at the campus store freshman year o college.

Kinda amazing I persisted.

50,000 Fall Fans is definitely my go-to - it only has like 1-2 selections from each album, so it's not like you're 'ruining' much by listening to that first.

That's a good question... what are the best Fall starter-albums for new listeners?

Not that keen on The Fall in general but I listened to The Unutterable this morning following amateurist mentioning it above and it was great. Would listen again.

This afternoon I tried Grotesque, also mentioned above, and lasted about 90 seconds. Can't be bothered with that stuff.

Yeah I would recommend The Unutterable as the starter-kit to pretty much anyone

Either that or Hex

Definitely not "Hex" I'd say

Esp. the 2nd side

Though I suppose if you can sit through "And This Day" you'll be able to cope with anything else MES might throw at you

Hex is probably their most interesting album (well, apart from Levitate) - it's iconic, vivid, catchy, quite obviously something unusual. Surely the listener would prefer this to the (imo) slightly more humdrum charms of The Infotainment Scan or whatever else was suggested? Don't conflate enjoyability with simplicity

Or even memorability with simplicity

Infotainment Scan is not a humdrum album even in comparison to Hex.

I found Info kinda straightforwardish and energetic.
Hex, though great, would seem a lil obtuse for a newbie, I'd think.

This Nation's Saving Grace is my favourite, therefore that's the best one for everyone else to start with.

Dont know about albums but Peel Sessions Versipn of Glam Racket wd prob be one of the mist user friendky points of origin for newbies.

Also re Floyd influence in the Fall: three words, all beginning w the letter D...

Man am I glad I hadnt bothered to type those three words out...

umm... dreams, dragons and _____ ?

dragos

Dream's is one

Drugs, obv.

Dave Gilmour with your granny on bongos

like and this day. like the new album.

Fizzles!

i got in my car this AM and turned on the radio and -- BAM -- "eat yrself fitter" came screaming out of the speakers

such a great band

what radio station is playing "eat yrself fitter"?

Radio 3, prob.

i'm in the USA. college radio.

No-one will ever believe this but it's true, I just witness MES slow dancing with whats'erface for about 2 minutes tonight.

Elena?

Yeah. He was probably more sober than I was. I'm almost inclined to believe Mr Doran is exaggerating the state he's in. He was drinking a bottle of Fosters Gold. Dunno about anyone else, but if I was a chronic alchoholic I wouldn't be seen dead drinking a bottle of Fosters Gold, there's not enough booze in it.

First one I heard that I enjoyed was "Witch Trials"; "Frenz" and "This Nation" didn't do much for me at first.

the immediate not liking of grotesque saddens me. it starts with "pay your rates"!

pay your own rates!

AllMusic opined that the band "really started hitting its stride" with this album.[2]

!

Grotesque is the one that turned me into a ravening Fall follower.

fuck all this "what's the easiest fall album to get into", start 'em on perverted by language, weed out the weaklings

maybe introduce them via this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuiEOlboPTY

Speaking as a career alcoholic who handed his badge and gun in five years ago, I'd suggest that none of my still thirsty brothers still in country would ever refuse a drink given to them if there were none other on hand. And anyone with any kind of long term chronic illness will have good days and bad days. Although a Fosters product does admittedly seem uncharacteristically pusillanimous.

Yet, I was right about Jeff Hanneman and I suspect I'm right here. Although, for the record, I really hope I'm not.

Sorry about the mixed armed service/police metaphor above.

fuck all this "what's the easiest fall album to get into", start 'em on perverted by language, weed out the weaklings

lol that was the first Fall album I bought.

Now I'm (vaguely) sober I admit I was being a bit presumptuous that MES hadn't already necked 2 bottles of whisky before turning up at the gig last night but I was surprised that he was still standing up at that time of night. I've avoided seeing the Fall live for years because of the many, many tales of terrible shows, I think the last time I saw them was at Reading festival about 12/13 years ago. I did see Von Sudenfed a few years back and he did the same shit then, singing from backstage etc. Wonder how tonight's gig will go.

I'm not sure I believe all the alcoholic hype - how the hell does he remember those lyrics?

I don't think it's hype

Maybe it's just me then, but when I'm drunk I don't write great lyrics :-/

^

He wrote better lyirics when he was on speed tbh

So did Dylan. Apparently if you want to write the best lyrics ever, that's your drug.

I'm not sure I believe all the alcoholic hype - how the hell does he remember those lyrics?

― StanM, Friday, May 17, 2013 4:50 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he is a functioning alcoholic

they exist

and then they die in their 60s of liver failure

Only just got round to listening to the new album. Sad to say I'm with Doran on this one, it's fucking rubbish. Not quite as appalling as the last album but not that far off. I know they seem like the kind of band that will never actually split up but I kinda wish they had after Your Future Our Clutter which would have been one hell of a way to go out.

the only way the fall will split up is if MES develops multiple personality disorder

multiple personality order, more like...

How about if his band quit(again) and he literally couldn't find anyone else that would work with him?

I'd volunteer

There is a glimmer of hope...

My mate was watching White Fence at Tufnell Park Dome last week and found himself standing next to MES.

White Fence have Tim Presley as a member. He's also a member of Californian psych/Kraut unit Darker, My Love who were, for a short time, a touring version of The Fall - as captured on the live album around the time of Post Reformation TLC.

Presley reckons he's still mates with Smith and they talk regularly.

I mean, we're talking about easily the best line up of the Fall I've ever seen live. Although I'd love to see the suggested but never realised all female Fall or for him to do a one off album with an electronic group such as Nitzer Ebb or Factory Floor, as in the Von Suddenfed album.

Either way he needs to sack the divot stampers.

How about if his band quit(again) and he literally couldn't find anyone else that would work with him?

― Kitchen Person, Thursday, May 23, 2013 4:57 AM (4 hours ago)

this will literally never happen

I was kinda hoping the Mouse on Mars guys would become the Fall for another album or two

The US/UK hybrid lineup was so great live. I saw them in Brooklyn and their sound was overwhelming, like Hawkwind married to a wind tunnel.

Before that, I managed to see the all-US lineup two or three times as well; it seems like that insane tour was the unlearning course that made the awesome kraut garage sludge highlights of later albums possible.

I've never been as glued to a message board as when that collapse/reform us tour was in progress...

No Respects Rev. is fucking astonishing

In fact the second half of this record is brilliant, first half barely less. Sorry Doran, but...

Well, maybe quite a bit less, but from NRR onwards it's gold

I don't expect people to agree with my taste in music ever! But my take on it is this: if the second half of this record is "fucking astonishing" then - in my book - you're saying it's on par with or almost as good as, say, the second half of Hex or the Unutterable or This Nations Saving Grace or Totale's Turns. And that's just not my take of the second half of this record.

However, I personally think that the first half of the new EP is *a bit more like it*.

The second half of this record is perhaps even better than the second half of The Unutterable because it doesn't have Pumpkin Soup And Mashed Potatoes on it :P

True, it doesn't have Midwatch 1953 or Devolute on it either, but it's consistently fiery

New EP? Aha

TBF, the second half is uniformly *very good* if not fucking astonishing. I only said one track was fucking astonishing! There's ALWAYS a fucking astonishing track on every Fall album. Last time out it was Monocard. This time it's No Respects Rev.

That's a fair point about Unutterable. I always forget it's got that really shit ending but by that time I've already heard Two Librans, Cyber Insekt, Dr Buck's Letter etc...

I need to go back and give it another listen now that the dust has settled.

oh Doran why would you say such things...?

I know what you mean and I've stuck to the party line of "the latest one is the best" most years since I got into the Fall in 1984 but on the odd occasion (late 90s and now) I've had to ask myself, 'Is this really good enough?' As much as anything I think most people need the occasional breather so they can go back in stronger. Even in 2008, I worked out that I listened to an average of three Fall albums a day that entire year - but I can't be bothered this year.

I'm not a complete obsessive. To paraphrase Everett True's excellent joke - "I'm not a proper Fall fan - I've only got 52 of their CDs."

lol there's a whole gap that still remains unfilled in my Fall listening from, like Bend Sinister to Cerebral Caustic...

I was referring specifically to dissing the end of The Unutterable, which is an amazingly successful left-turn into gnarled Levitate-style anti-music which completely enhances the album as a whole imo

am feeling you about the whole not being able to keep up with new music this year vibe...the shop I work at for the past few months has been taking up all my time. That being said, it's amazing how sheltered from a world going to shit a 65-hour a week factory job can make you feel

(lol I def sloughed off all my punctuation responsibilities up there^ though)

Last 3 tracks of The Unutterable are amazing and beautiful yes and everything you say, except Levitate came out 3 years earlier :p

Oh for some reason I read that as 'enabled the album (Levitate)' o_O

Maybe not that Caterer song. End on Devolute and that's an all-time way to finish an album

I have that exact same gap in my Fall listening btw! Did they do anything else in that period as monumental as The Birmingham School Of Business School?

Code Selfish is an essential album in full.

Definitely. Get the two 90s comps, "A Past Gone Mad" and "A World Bewitched" to hear the best stuff.

There are a lot of shitty misbegotten fall comps out there but A World Bewitched is totally awesome.

Shift-Work and Code Selfish are both completely amazing from start to finish, so get those. Infotainment Scan is pretty damn good too.

I was gonna say infotainment prob the 2nd best in that time span. Like Frenz exp though there is something abt the sound if it that makes it fail to stick to my ribs. Shift work is one if those cherry pick the best few tracks fall albums for me.

There's a thread on here where suggestions are made for a "Best of the 90s" and "Best of the 2000s" compilations are bandied about. I took those and ran with them, very helpful and I listen to them more often than the amazing-but-well-worn 70s and 80s stuff.

mark e smith - portrait of the artist as a consumer

http://retromaniafootnotes.blogspot.co.il/2012/05/800x600-normal-0-false-false-false-en_5119.html

Great stuff from the young MES

there was a similar one in the 90s for Melody Maker and he mentions 2 Unlimited's "No Limits" as one of his favourite tracks.

I can't remember where I stowed all my sweaters! It's a touch nippy out there this morning.

Pumpkin spice lattes are spoil overrated.

I'm all about MES enjoying watching "Bluey" (a 1970s Australian cop show about a rather large detective) on the telly.

did not know this was out!

http://thequietus.com/articles/14119-the-fall-remainderer-review

>>>in a way that evoked the shock of first hearing ‘Reformation’, perhaps The Fall’s best song, back in 2006<<

Whaaaaaat.

New EP sounds well-recorded on first listen. The Gene Vincent medley ain't too hot though.

I dearly love The Fall but does everything they release need to be overhyped? The new EP is ok with a couple of excellent tracks but, c'mon, it's no Slates.

I've been really enjoying it (in a sort of sloppy bleary mood tho). media coverage often seems to come from "fall-as-thing" rather than the content of the music, so you get this absurd fracture between grand cultural institution language heaped on a sketchy half-assed and even at best only esoteric ally rewarding mess.

admission: when I play my early/late fall typology game - Re-Mit=Slates.

lol @ reformation quote.

Review makes it sound squarely like rampant me-bait Fall, the fact that the reviewer mentions 2 of ny top 5 Fall songs does help

Sorry shit post am sitting in North Upper at The Valley watching our boys get beat by Detby

1 minute into Mister Rode and it's clearly the greatest thing ever

^
it seems, on first two listens, to be about a newly formed experimental or supernatural creature exuberantly delighting in the fact it can have a face and a name, albeit translucent. Standout lyric - "i got a look, translucent face - i mirror dead souls every day." superb all round. Sorry about the result.

rest of the EP is ok and all, good moments, last track especially, but nothing really stands alongside the mighty mister rode

& thanks - better times will come, possibly in lower strata

I agree with your picks, Imago - "Mister Rode" jumps out at you. Honestly, I'm quite content getting a couple of great tracks and ignoring the rest.

Hopefully this will continue with every Fall release until the untimely death of MES.

hush yr mouth

Mister Rode is fucking amazing, feels like a fundamental Fall song

Kinda think that to be an all-time greatest candidate it maybe needs to bring the main refrain back after that titanic closing build but cmon man you've had nearly 8 minutes of the song, don't get greedy

post-YFOC material that belongs in 'the canon', discuss

I'd have:

Taking Off
Monocard
No Respects Rev.
Jetplane
Mister Rode

anyone wanna suggest more? I'm probably underrating Re-Mit there tbh

Not much gra for post-YFOC stuff tbh. I'll check out his Mister Rode song.

I would add "The Remainderer" and "Loadstones" but that's a pretty solid list, especially "Jetplane" imo.

Ya Loadstones was the one I felt hardest leaving out, it can come. My other fave track off Remainderer was Touchy Pad, but it's a good EP

I need to have a go at Re-Mit once and for all and soon

aside from the Laptop Dog 7" I've been avoiding these releases, having a listen now

OK on this new EP I liked "Amorator!" and "Rememberance R" more than the tracks y'all are into, Smith's unintelligibly mushmouthed bellowing is the main stumbling block here imo. They have a snappy, confident feel and are a bit more restrained which allows Smith to work his territory rather than compete for it in the mix.

It's about time we got a real version of "Race With The Devil", it has a long history w/the band and John Peel. Wait, I think this is the same live version recorded on Peel's birthday, never mind. "Say Mama" is a perfectly fine Fall-as-rockabilly move

The same MES bellowing mars the last track, which could have been really cool.

My post-YFOC/2010 picks:
Taking Off
Nate Will Not Return
Greenway
I've Seen Them Come
Age Of Chang
Sir William Wray
Hittite Man
Victrola Time
Mister Rode
Blow Up Muscles (a solo MES track from a compilation)

Agree with most of these selections. I really love "Kinder Of Spine" off Re-Mit too.

I listened to The Unutterable today and found myself wishing that they could have mined that lush/heady well-produced sound for at least one more album. "Cyber Insekt" is still an all-time favorite.

i listened to The Unutterable yesterday, it's one of the best albums of the 2000s and absolutely one of The Fall's best records, fucking astounding work. ditch 'serum' & 'das katerer' for being self-remixes and 'pumpkin soup' for being too, too much & it's also practically faultless

I love that William Blake song and two librans, both quite perfect.

yep

amazing that nobody had written 'two librans' before, it feels like a song that had to be written

that riff i mean

"Alan Brazil and Hatton on about 'discipline for all'" - this his always felt like a lyric for the ages.

*has

you can just see mark e smith boggling at the radio, maybe giving it a kick

New radio documentary from 6music -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b052r0l5

(heard the 2nd half while working yesterday, didn't seem great)

Brix Smith & Ex The Fall Members Bring You…

/// BRIX SMITH AND THE EXTRICATED ///

Brix and the Extricated are comprised of ex-members of The Fall’s halcyon period. They are the writers behind some of the most beloved songs of The Fall canon. The group played a rapturously received stage debut December 13th 2014 in Manchester.

They reclaimed their music, with a propulsive punk vitality and breathed new life into the old favourites. The crowd was in awe – this wasn’t some tribute band – they “own” those songs and reinvented them. Furthermore, the band has explosive new material they are test-driving live and to record.

Brix and The Extricated marks the first return to music since 1996 for Brix Smith-Start, former wife and songwriting partner of The Fall’s Mark E. Smith.

The live show is astounding, and Brix’s stage presence isn’t a continuation of where she left off so much as a re-birth --- a commanding and riveting rock – roll front-person, her vocals deservedly to the fore, her lead guitar playing as raw and primal as before.

Twenty-year Fall lynchpin bassist Steve Hanley is on bass and making his first forays since the 90s. His brother Paul Hanley returns on drums, and the band is rounded out by ex FALL guitaristsSteve Trafford and Jason Brown.

The universal question after the first gig was, “Why didn’t this happen sooner?”

FAN FOOTAGE: ‘CRUISERS CREEK” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxfmeUsv4HM

- i bet MES is apoplectic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B99gA19IYAAuwvz.png

No Scanlon, no dice.

"No Scanlon" is slightly less damaging than "No Hanley" but yeah Steve Trafford kind of sticks out like a sore thumb on that lineup.

I'm glad they are doing this but I'd rather Brix write new tunes for these guys, adult net style

i bet MES is apoplectic.

Well, he did call them "fucking sub-human"...

http://thefall.org/news/pics/2015-01_Mojo.jpg

psyched about the Live-Evil influence on upcoming Fall stuff

(actually I can hear this in some of the things this lineup has already done, now that I think of it)

Notice how he's subtly giving us all the finger.

>>Brix and The Extricated marks the first return to music since 1996 for Brix Smith-Start,

Untrue, Brix released a digital-only solo album ("Neurotica") in 2007.

Wander what pub in Islington he was in, description could fit 90% of them though.

... wonder

even with a dubious guitar choice, I would go see this band in a heartbeat

I mean, Brix plays a pretty mean guitar herself!

oh sure brix on lead is great, the recorded evidence is plentiful.

Obv would totally see this band just to beam love at her and shanley.

Don't know if I would use the adjective 'astounding' to describe that version of Cruisers Creek up there, more like ok with occasional bursts of lead.

Probably The Actual Fall would never play that song now though. They are doing what Mark E Smith would never do - giving the people what they want. ie. a greatest hits selection from their most popular period.

Here's a selist from a recent gig by Brix and the Extricated:

US 80s 90s
2X4
Cruisers Creek
Gravitation
Hotel Blodel
LA
Bonkers in Phoenix
Lay of the Land
Deadbeat Descendant
Bring it Down
Big New Prinz

vs. the most recent setlist by the Fall (from November) I found online:

Amorator!
Mister Rode
Gone To Venice
The Remainderer
Bam (Student Village)
Dedication
Cock In Pocket
Hittite Man (into Jungle)
Cowboy George
Fibre Book Troll
2014
Hot Cake
Blindness

I wouldn't have known Brix/Extricated even existed if MES hadn't mentioned them in his end-of-year address in some magazine I saw.

Wow those songs are so not my favorite!

The Extricated band ones I mean.

They are so Brix though.

Not sure about Brix singing these songs but I'd probably go just to hear "Lay of the Land"

They should do "Spoilt Victorian Child".

I had a fortuitous chat with Brix last year, while she was looking for a bus, after one of the Steve Hanley promotional talks. She was great. Talked about how being in front of the rhythm section was like being at the head of a freight train, and said talking about and remembering it still gave her goosebumps and made the hairs on her arms and neck stick up (something which she indicated).

She was generally worried about Mark, and we talked a bit about whether there can be a poetry of decline or decay - she doubted it and said even if that was the case, it was hard for hear to listen to. She mentioned she'd be doing her autobiography next year, and said there were numerous things that Steve hadn't been able to say because of not wanting to embarrass his family.

The general point being that she was really interesting about The Fall and her contribution to it, and their power, and was fun and energetic. But all of the ex-members seem to display an inability to resolve or correlate their experiences of The Fall satisfactorily. That's probably understandable, but Hanley's book is almost the perfect expression of it. The general theme is that the more 'the group' are left alone by Smith, the better the album, and that Smith marred as much or more than he made.

There's one very small section where Hanley mentions that a lot of the best work came out of individual musician's writing sessions with Mark round at his house, but nothing else in the book explores that relationship. And Hanley's view is that the most successful Fall material is that least meddled with, something as a fan I don't agree with at all.

They're all badly scarred by their time in The Fall - Hanley said they'd all had nervous breakdowns after leaving, and it wasn't a joke, certainly not by the exchanged glances and silence after he said it.

One thing Brix said sounded extremely unlikely - that she wouldn't rule out the old Fall playing with Smith again, because he was always so hard up for cash. The latter's certainly true, but it's an impossible misconception of Smith and The Fall that he'd engage in some mysterious reformation - opposed to everything he stands for and implying that there isn't even a current group.

Certainly wish them all well, but there is an energy and disruption to Smith's management and mind, absent which any performances of the music are unalive.

Sublingual Tablet sounds like it will be out in April - there was a new song played on Liz Kershaw, this morning called 'First One Today' which sounds like it's a social media analogue of Webb Pierce's There Stands the Glass.

Fantastic! Thank you for this.

I recently read john French's book on being in the magic band and there are so many parallels with what you just wrote. Both men drew a lot of art power from destruction and prevention. DVV seems like he was more often simply destructive, causing the work to die or happen way too slowly, whereas MES is master of a highly creative (and highly productive) destruction. In both cases a painful process for band members, who end up rehashing the attendant paradoxes in their minds for the rest of their lives. (I think the fall must have been tons more fun on a good day than the coercive privations of the magic band though)

I gotta get the Hanley book

Gave up on the John French book when he covered Greg Davidson's brief tenure in the Magic Band by listing the fast food restaurants he'd visited with Davidson and Beefheart.

She was generally worried about Mark

His health or...?

A+ update Fizzles, my Fernet Branca offer still stands

Sub-Lingual Tablet out May 25th!

1. Venice With The Girls
2. Black Root
3. Dedication Not Medication
4. First One Today
5. Junger Cloth
6. Stout Man
7. Auto Chip 2014-2016
8. Pledge
9. Snazzy
10. Fibre Book Troll
11. Quit iPhone

http://www.cherryred.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=5022

"Sub-Lingual Tablet comprises 11 tracks and is being released on CD and limited edition vinyl. The vinyl features different mixes."

Oof. But great album title!

Great song titles!

Different mixes? Fuck a vinyl.

They did that before, see Kurious Oranj

Yeah I know, but it's just so 80s.

I'm good w the different mixes, esp. after the lousy (or just not interesting) sound on the last couple records—esp. Ersatz GB. It's like having safety copies of the tracks MES inevitably decides to sabotage at the last minute.

"Quit iPhone" is so brilliantly stupid/on-the-nose! I'm more psyched for this one than I have been the last few, maybe it's the longer layoff....

Last 2 Fall albums have been disappointing but a longer layoff might mean more quality

Great song titles but can't help thinking Sub-Lingual Tablet wouldve been the perfect place for a song called "Return to Forum"

I'm gonna try to keep my expectations reasonable here, have not been able to get into the last two at all

while this thread is active, can somebody please tell me which version of Fall In A Hole I should buy? or are all the CD reissues screwed up? iirc the single disc is a bad vinyl rip, and I see reviews that the 23CD version is clipped/overmodulated. any input? please don't make me buy an original.

Its a bad vinyl rip because there's a jump in one of the tracks, apart from that its alright. The album was always one up from a bootleg anyway.

(I have the 'second' l.p. Issue, it has the same catch groove which was disconcerting because naturally you want to clean/fix it but it always played the jump three times then continued. Which is not what lp's do.

I've got the Castle 2CD reissue and I'm very happy with it. You're talking about a legal bootleg, after all, I'm not that concerned with pristine quality. If it's a vinyl transfer, I can't tell.

which song Mark?

thanks, Gerald!

I don't recall..

hang on I'll look..

Here you go:

http://thefall.org/discography/data/live04.html

The man who's head expanded.

oh right, I knew I had seen that breakdown before. thanks!

You want the castle version or the sanctuary version.

I actually think In A Hole is the best sounding of the live albums of this era

Just don't buy the cog sinister version. Of anything. Except Listening In, that's a great disc.

I saw an original in virgin recs tcr back in the day, it was a bit pricey so didn't get it, and I effectively missedout.

Years later I saw the one I have now inthat good record shop in Amsterdam, went wow and bought it. Should have known it was a boot, but, yr honour..

There's more good uncollected 90s b-sides. I compiled them and called it "Listening Out".

YSI???

Sure! ILXMail me.

"My rhythm section can do that shit when they apply themselves"

"Quit iPhone"

Can't wait for the Samsung advertisement/cross-promotion.

I recently *finally* got around to reading the MES autobiography and easily the best revelation is that he's a big fan of Dr Karl from Neighbours.

yeah i liked that bit

tho dude is an unreliable narrator of courtney love proportions

Meet Cute:

http://www.keithmcdougall.com/#!ill-be-your-mirror/c1o9m

Awwww

Just finished Steve Hanley's book. That predates this...

Haha that was great

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/may/07/the-fall-sub-lingual-tablet-review

also i didn't really like Re-Mit, but i always come back to fall albums just to see and i'm digging it today

Elena is such a a cool keyboardist, she does't get enough credit as an awesome fall member

so true, plus she totally slays the vocals on "I've Been Duped"

Longest serving fall member by now?

I think Hanley still has a couple of years on her, didn't she start right at the end of the century?

Steve Hanley was exactly 19 years, Eleana Smith has now 12.5 years.

So, come 2022,she will overtake him.

First impression: this record rules.

It's pretty much the same vibe as the last two and it seems to have been approached the same way, where it's like 50% songs that were written ahead of time and worked out in the live set, and 50% shit being made up on the spot, but as long as you're cool with that it's pretty fun.

Yeah it's all right.

## Sub Lingual Tablet ##

Got hold of the new album the other week at a gig. I'm beginning to realise I've got a few criteria for evaluating new Fall albums:

1) Is there a great, all-time Fall song on there?

Early LPs were crammed with them but I don't think there's been a preponderance of great tracks on a single LP since... This Nation's Saving Grace for definite, maybe up to and including The Frenz Experiment. Might include The Unutterable as well. I'd have the last incontrovertibly great song on a Fall LP as Weather Report #2, though I think Hittite Man off the last album might be up there.

Not sure there's anything of that sort on this one - Junger Cloth probably closest for me (obviously this is all 'personally' or 'for me', so I'll try and dispense with such crypto-humility.) A lack of musical invention feels like it's the critical factor here - early to mid-Fall had music that was as strange and intense as the Smith's lyrics.

** 2) Does the album have focus, subject matter, a loose-ish unity, a sense of latent purpose? **

The last album scores really highly on this I think. That's partly because of the fairly simple mechanism of having a fair bit of noise/spoken word glue between the tracks. It gives a sense of continuity - interrupted by strange commentaries and flares of electronic irritability, like one of his spoken word albums. The subject matter of the LP gave off a feeling of an old England of the future. There's the stuttering and drunkenly incoherent Sir William Wray (from which Smith stated he'd deliberately removed any recognisable words - tho it does contain the contemptuous 'All you do is touch gesture' - electronic tablets are a fairly constant source of derangement over the last couple of years). No Respects Rev - "and judge your soul's realm, the god and the (???) damned, in the words of.... (wails and skrrttching sounds), in 12 years, do you take.. . in a cove, location in Whitby. England you schweinhund, why are you here? why are you here?"

Then there's the extremely enjoyable Victrola Time, Edwardian/MDMA subject matter - feels like a rip of Betjeman's Indoor Games at Shrewsbury - motorik backing, a very lunatic vocal opening and an ending that reminds me of The Vampyr. Finally, Loadstones, which feels like a Quatermass/Children of the Stones future neolithic landscapes, with a great opening: Local! Loadstones! After a dark sunset, my brother and I - we walked up the path, far from the tower, a light sea breeze, ruffled (our clothes?).

The whole exudes a sense of ancientness and futurity, strange landscapes, history seeping through and seething behind the current technological wallpaper. There's no great songs on there, I don't think, but the total effect is extremely strong. I think I said at the time, although it's more dilute, it feels like it has the same heft as Slates (no, not anywhere near as good, not by a long chalk, but a minor classic - the sort of book you might find in an old library, with the writing of the spine obscured, written by a local parson, that on opening reveals itself to be rather alarming...)

So yeah, I agree with UM S@kedown!

This one is less good, more like Ersatz GB, but it's very enjoyable. As a friend said 'As ever, no idea whether it's actually "good", but it's much rocking and lol, so the entertainment value is high.'

I want to write more on specific songs, but i gotta get on a plane!

oh and sleeve - yes, fernet and get together would be amazing! You're west coast right? If you're East, I'm in NYC until the weekend, then DC and Atlanta until at the beginning of next week. If you're not, I'll have a fernet anyway and toast you anyway!

This one is less good, more like Ersatz GB, but it's very enjoyable. As a friend said 'As ever, no idea whether it's actually "good", but it's much rocking and lol, so the entertainment value is high.'

This is pretty otm. I think Re-Mit is probably the best of these recent three--I'd put "Jetplane" and "Loadstones" up there with the best of their work, not nearly as high as "Weather Report 2", but up there--and while there's nothing so far on the new one that jumps out as an all-time classic, I'm still enjoying it quite a bit. This is another one with no Elena lead vocals, though. :(

Early LPs were crammed with them but I don't think there's been a preponderance of great tracks on a single LP since... This Nation's Saving Grace for definite...

This is true. It was their last high watermark. I think Brix's arrival took them in a different, less interesting direction (see "Wonderful Frightening World) but they managed to get it together one last time for this record.

I'm reading Hanley's book right now and it is a must for all serious Fall fans. It adds quite a bit of insight to the bands output. Being in that band is/was no picnic.

Fizzles, I am unfortunately a West Coaster, will raise a glass to u as well

Fizzles, I was v sorry to miss u last time u were in nyc. Email me if you want to meet up for a sec this time. My day job is in west chelsea gallery area if lunch, and nights are free except friday night

joncroaker

at

gmail

great. will get in touch now I've finally checked in.

the new album is terrific. much better than the last two, which i didnt care for tbh

I dunno, I'm not as sold yet. After a couple of listens the two standouts see the opener and the 10 minute track. No Elani on vocals, boo. His growly drunken old man voice isn't my favorite.

Fizzles impersonated several of the tracks at dinner Thursday night, based upon this preview I'm psyched to get it

I'm really enjoying it. "Stout Man" really the only weak track imo. Wondering if the vinyl mixes will be drastically different.

Social media seems to be a thread running through this album. "I WANNA FUCKIN FACEBOOK TROLL"

Listening to Re-Mit & SLT for the first time. Re-Mit is alright, but I'm actually getting a lot out of Tablet; it's prob the best since Y.F.O.C., though it is a bit patchy. I feel like with these last 3 LPs, the Fall album has turned into something else; you can't really compare Tablet to Imperial Wax Solvent or Country on the Click, any more than you could compare those albums to Perverted by Language or Wonderful and Frightening.

Speaking of which:

Early LPs were crammed with them but I don't think there's been a preponderance of great tracks on a single LP since... This Nation's Saving Grace for definite...

I would propose that Country on the Click absolutely fits this description.

I wish emusic would get slt but I guess if they haven't by now they aren't gonna.

preponderance of great tracks on a single EP = YFOC arguably, COTC arguably, The Unutterable definitely

SLT has Dedication Not Medication and Auto Chip 2014-16 which are both p good imo if not quite top-level material

The Real New Fall LP is pretty stacked
I think I liked The Fall Heads Roll better than most

Reformation Post TLC isn't very good
OFYC rules

Fall heads roll was a letdown after that incredible peel session of 4 of its tracks

>>you can't really compare Tablet to Imperial Wax Solvent

This is funny because both records have the same backing band! I think IWS is the last LP that felt like it had a lot of great individual tracks that overshadowed others, the last few lps seem more "level" in the overall quality of the songs.

Anyone hear Wise Ol' Man yet?

I had the synth line from "Black Door" in my head all day yesterday. Even at under two mins, that song gives me a strong Elastic Man/New Face in Hell vibe. Junger Cloth and Snazzy also work in that really vivid, loopy garage rock mode that MES & co. had moned to such great effect in 1980-81.

*mined

59 years old today. Hbd MES!

Wow. He's only 55 here but looks worse than many people do at 80: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/dec/14/mark-e-smith-self-image

Some dispute over his age, some say he was born in 1955.

Shocked to learn (via that Guardian piece) that he's 6'1". Based on his personality I would have put him at about 5'6".

Interestingly, in that article - from December, 2013 - he says he's 55. That would have made him 58 today, so he was lying about his age then.

Or he didn't remember because he's a fuckwitted souse

He doesn't look a day over 70, that's for sure.

Haha I kinda doubt a dude who is bragging about losing his teeth is gonna lie to shave one year off his age

Or bragging about being a "fifty year old man, and I liiiiiiiiiiiike it"

Listen to "Wrong Place, Right Time." If that bass doesn't move you, you are beyond help.

if he's claiming to be 6'1" then I'm gonna start doing so too

Yeah, especially the Peel session version of Wrong Place. Devastating.

Ha Iggy bragged about being 5'1" and can't imagine he's THAT short

Iggy wasn't bragging, he was lamenting.

Iggy is apparently 5'7"...and Smith is actually 5'9". Which goes better with his temperament than 6'1".

He might have been 6'1" at some point in the early eighties, all those wraps of whizz and broken bones have whittled him down into a shorter giacometti type sculpture since!

I am 6ft 1 if that helps.

mark g smith

xp
I can already tell by your 6'1" temperament.

in other news, Superior Viaduct is reissuing their 1st two singles:

http://www.superiorviaduct.com/collections/2016-punk-singles

I was packing to get ready for moving house and found a stop and search receipt from a few years ago and the cop put my height in as 6'1". I'm actually 6'3" so I expect Mark E. Smith is using the same tape measure.

I thought Smith was a bit taller thnan me when I met him and would have thought it was somewhere aron dthe same height as Nick Cave or Blixa Bargeld. & I think they're both 6' 1 or 2

http://shout.webring.com/people/au/um_474/fa/fall2.jpg

shorter than marc riley, about half an inch taller than bramah, towers over yvonne pawlett, karl burns is possibly a giant?

I'm 6'2" and Blixa Bargeld is pretty close to my height. (Interviewed him in person once. Felt grossly under-dressed.)

Why does anyone like anything?

Felt grossly under-dressed.

to be fair I think he makes everybody feel that way all the time

Riley is tall. And there's that Creppers song that goes "I'm a tall guy I'm taller than him but he's really bigger."

Isn't Cave like 6 4?

i'm 6'4" and i spoke with cave once and he was not as tall as me. 6'1-2" sounds about right.

Is anyone taller than Jim Sclavunos?

Why does anyone like The Tall?

There's no way Iggy is 5'7"

Mark is short. The Fall are short.

Felt grossly under-dressed.

Can we leave Lawrence out of this please?

Eric Bachman from Archers of Loaf/Crooked Fingers is really tall

this thread has taken an incredibly amusing turn

if you think about it there's an incredibly wide range of height among people who do music, from really short to kind of short and then you've got tall, regular tall, very tall

"when I sit down to listen to them, all I hear is an unrehearsed band with a tone deaf lead singer, and absolutley no hooks."

this is why we like them

those reasons and also the heights of the various members of the band

DID YOU KNOW? If you take the average height of all of the members of The Fall over the years, that equals... the same height as MES #spooky

I read that book The Fallen and I forgot who it was but one former member didn't even have a height

I really can't believe that average. Nobody's been as much taller than MES as Brix was shorter have they?

For a couple months in 1997 or 98 Tommy Crooks and Neville Winding were exactly the same height, that didn't last

if the fall were in a hole, what would the minimum depth of the hole be if you cannot see the top of mark's head when observing it from a distance? assume that he is not standing on the face of one of his bandmates

you've got to provide a distance—curvature of the earth etc.

And the answer is.. Mark Riley!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/48/Fallinahole.jpg/220px-Fallinahole.jpg

"Ten times my age, one tenth my height"

Finally!!!

RECORD STORE DAY 2016 > The Fall - The Real New Fall LP (Formerly Country on the Click)

Event: RECORD STORE DAY 2016
Release Date: 4/16/2016
Format: 12" Colored Vinyl
Label: Narnack Records
Catalog: NCK 7067
Release type: 'RSD First' Release
MORE INFO
Having not been avail outside of a 2k pressing in 2004 – Narnack Records represses for Record Store Day of one of the strongest The Fall albums in the band’s 30 year existence. This re-mastered, limited edition, features red/black a/b-side vinyl and a download card as well as two new tracks and two alternate mixes.

wary of colored vinyl but I have been waiting for this

cover of this rsd release is very wtf:

http://recordstoreday.co.uk/media/2224/fall-bingo-masters-at-the-witch-trials.jpg

sorry for hueg

Gross.

Is this just another random comp?

hard to tell what it is, but strongly do not want

Here's the track list, assuming it's an early show

1. Repetition
2. Psycho Mafia
3. Rebellious Jukebox
4. Frightened
5. Steppin Out
6. I Like To Blow
7. Mess Of My
8. Mother Sister
9. Industrial Estate
10. It's The New Thing
11. Futures And Pasts
12. Music Scene
13. Bingo Masters Break Out
14. Brand New Cadillac

I am assuming it's this July 78 show, with the two missing tracks restored and the three anomalous ones removed. Nothing to get excited about.

https://www.discogs.com/Fall-Live-At-Deeply-Vale/release/3285430

And the two missing tracks are not unreleased either. Who's going to want this on vinyl with that terrible cover?

omg that cover

EMERGENCY EYEWASH STATION