In my mind, never has a band been so easily divided between use and uselessness:
USE: the debut (hell, even the pre first album stuff, it gave the Cocteau Twins their name after all) through Sparkle in the Rain, slightly flawed as that might have been (it still has "Waterfront" and a great cover of "Street Hassle," that works for me). Reel to Real Cacophony is one of the most bizarre and wonderful sophomore albums ever, like if, I dunno, Radiohead released Amnesiac after Pablo Honey or something, and Empires and Dance through New Gold Dream is as close to a surging imperial procession through a time and sound as anything else, post-punk scaled for arenas that unlike U2 placed the prominence on the music over the voice and the 'message' (no, really -- Jim Kerr so often sounds like he's being carried along by the music or is cutting across it instead of trying to dominate it).
USELESS: they record some other guy's song, score a hit with it, I learn to hate it from the moment I first heard it, and then Once Upon a Time and everything else from there on in, maybe a couple of songs aside, is a grueling extended disaster. I still have a copy of Street Fighting Years around and it's probably one of the most bombastic and utterly ridiculously over the top albums ever. They started out transcending whatever the Dublin foursome could bring to the stadia and by that time were doing even more damaging things than them, frightening. The recent covers album...oh god, don't get me started.
Trying to think of what influence if any they had is interesting. Jess inadvertantly made me thought of this on the Radiohead round table debate thread because I thought that Echo was a poor comparison to Thom and company and I realize that SM might be a better one, a band who has a public profile in the States but might not be seen as at the center of things, despite many obsessed fans...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 June 2003 03:58 (twenty years ago) link
― JesseFox (JesseFox), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:06 (twenty years ago) link
didn't they get sampled by raven maize a few years back. sorry thats all.
― gallantseagull, Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:31 (twenty years ago) link
I can't argue with that...at all.
― Paul Cox (paul cox), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:32 (twenty years ago) link
Even in the good old days, though, quality control wasn't really their thing, and I'm tempted to say they were a singles band: "I Travel," "Love Song," "The American" -- those first few where they're flirting with the New Romantic movement are so great, and hold up much better than most of the club-rock of that era. And "Themes From Great Cities" should be recognized as one of the great instrumental rock tracks of the '80s (I actually used it in the early '90s for some public access cable show, and after we screened it ten different people asked me, "What was that amazing music?")
After that... well, I think they were always going to do whatever they had to do to make it big, and if that meant hopping on the Celtic Rock bandwagon along with U2 and Big Country, then so be it. So my expiration date is a little earlier than yours, though again the singles off New Gold Dream and Sparkle in the Rain were pretty fine. I still get that descending keyboard riff from "Up On The Catwalk" stuck in my head at odd times, and "Waterfront" and "Someone Somewhere in Summertime" make artsy pomposity seem so damn soulful.
But after that, toss it all: I saw them on the Once Upon A Time tour in '85 or whenever, and they were pretty bad. Shriekback opened, and wiped the floor with 'em. If they haven't called it a day yet -- and Jim Kerr doesn't seem the type to stop flogging that horse -- I say we punish him with dudness until he relents, or at least commisions a decent Best Of.
― Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:43 (twenty years ago) link
the stuff pre-"don't you" is somewhat hit-or-miss, but mostly pretty solid and just about every record from that time has at least something to recommend it. real to reel cacaphony, empires and dance, and new gold dream had an interesting roxy music-meets-kraftwerk sound to it. and something like "theme for great cities" was the greatest kraftwerk song that ralf und florian never made. things started getting a little bombastic around sparkle in the rain, though it's still quite good (a bit like what echo & the bunnymen would've sounded like if ian mccullough wasn't so whiny).
― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:44 (twenty years ago) link
I just tried to order a couple of the re-issues online and the bastards sent me the old versions, so my reacquisition of their back catalog is on hold until I get that sorted out.
I have Sons and Fascination here on vinyl however, and I love it. It somehow complements American architecture perfectly, it's such a modernist building of an LP. A huge empty sound that fills up all that concrete and nothingness. I'm continuously surprised that freeway interchanges don't sprout from the ground whenever I play "Themes for Great Cities."
Anyway, I like the Breakfast Club theme, but agree it was their downfall. I'd try and make the case for Once Upon a Time though... I don't like the album so much, but I love the double live release that has many songs from it.
Also search "Hunter and the Hunted" from New Gold Dream.
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:01 (twenty years ago) link
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:03 (twenty years ago) link
I recently played 'I Travel' for the first time in about 10 yrs and was astonished by how bloody thunderously good it is.
Oh and I really love 'Don't You Forget About Me' - even though Kerr's hooting is pretty silly.
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:07 (twenty years ago) link
― willem (willem), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:25 (twenty years ago) link
That is all.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 5 June 2003 10:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Pripton Weird (flowersdie), Thursday, 5 June 2003 10:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Patrick South (Patrick South), Thursday, 5 June 2003 11:21 (twenty years ago) link
R2RC would probably still make it as one of my 25 favourite albums - jagged and carnivalesque with that last-gasp-of-the-70's electrourban concrete-subway harshness & alienation scattered through it
E&D has a looming thunderous quality and depth of sound which anticipates the best that 80's production was to offer (eg Fear Of Gods sounds like prototype-Propaganda to me)
S&F/SFC was like listening to big-idea architecture(+ great as accompaniment to overnight motorway drive - nr-empty urban stretch of M6 level with Manchester/Liverpool at 4am while 'theme for great cities' or 'sound in 70 cities' blasts out = wonderful)
their swelling up into tinselled plum puddings starts on some of NGD(albeit glorious title track uses those tendencies in a way that works)
the rest should probably have been silence
― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 5 June 2003 12:06 (twenty years ago) link
Dr. C is OTM as always. I remember the po(m)p and drama of New Gold Dream came as a pleasant surprise at the time but their subsequent descent into U2-style bombast and vacuity was sadly rapid.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 5 June 2003 12:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:03 (twenty years ago) link
(I could find an analogy in history yesterday when my friend asked me this question: "Is you going on about early Simple Minds the same as Jode going on about early Whitney Houston?" (!!!) (or should that be (??)).
― Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:03 (twenty years ago) link
Once Upon a Time - a huge letdown. Joined the ranks of OMD.
― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:12 (twenty years ago) link
No.
Ned has summed it up pretty well. I used to like "Don't you forget about me" when I was a kid, but now it seems silly and I can't help but associate it in my mind with some horrible 80s yuppie aesthetic.
― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Thursday, 5 June 2003 14:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 June 2003 14:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 5 June 2003 16:16 (twenty years ago) link
Sparkle in the rain is execrable apart from Waterfront which is one of the records from that period which tried to take on U2's bombast and actually suceeded.
Aren't they back to doing some trancey electro stuff now?
― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 5 June 2003 20:43 (twenty years ago) link
I totally disagree with Ned, "Don't You Forget About Me," while totally cheesy, is the only Simple Minds song I'd care to hear again (ok, MAYBE "Alive And Kicking" if I get to dance around Bono-style to it).
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:16 (twenty years ago) link
See, this is the problem, which you must overcome. ;-)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Friday, 6 June 2003 01:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Friday, 6 June 2003 01:52 (twenty years ago) link
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 6 June 2003 01:55 (twenty years ago) link
― ara, Friday, 6 June 2003 02:54 (twenty years ago) link
― blutroniq (blutroniq), Friday, 6 June 2003 04:32 (twenty years ago) link
I'll defend Real Life somewhat - couple of the songs on there are OK and are mostly salvaged by Mel Gaynor's incredible drumming (he's #1 on my unheralded drummer list)
― Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 7 June 2003 06:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 12 June 2003 12:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 June 2003 13:31 (twenty years ago) link
― frenchbloke, Thursday, 12 June 2003 13:53 (twenty years ago) link
* This may not be true, but I can't prove that it's untrue either.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:25 (twenty years ago) link
Definitely one of the best in my book, though choosing between it and Empires and Dance is nearly impossible.
― Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:40 (twenty years ago) link
What in tarnation?
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:42 (twenty years ago) link
TS: Miccio's Bono-dancing or Paul Stanley's foxy-dancing!
― Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 13 June 2003 01:57 (twenty years ago) link
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:09 (twenty years ago) link
Andy and Ned have summed it up quite well. Most of the ideas are still present - disco punk (albeit more "30 Frames A Second" than "I Travel", crazy synths, sound collage, weird lyrics - but whereas on Empires & Dance the band focus that down to a relatively consistent thematic approach, Reel To Real is more all over the place. On the one hand, there's more "proper" punkish songs like "Citizen", "Changeling" and "Calling Your Name" (all of which put me in mind of a funkier, glammier Joy Division), and on the other there's quite a few weird but really engaging instrumentals and just totally fucked-up stuff like "Naked Eye" and "Carnival", both of which sound like the backing music for a circus organised by violently pathological schizophrenics. Also Kerr sounds like he's flipping out the entire time, whereas on E&D he sounds much more abstracted/distant.
In many ways I like the "idea" of Empires & Dance a bit more - the collision of dub, disco and punk, basically - but Reel To Real Cacophony has more killer cuts eg. the wonderful "Premonition". I love some of the really outthere stuff on E&D like "This Fear of Gods" but I'm always vaguely disappointed that there aren't more uptempo numbers like "I Travel".
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:57 (twenty years ago) link
Listening to the old albums this week has been a great but disorienting experience: as a kid, I always blamed SM's downfall on Jim Kerr and his pseudo-evangelical sub-Bono turn, but what's struck me is that even in the good days he was *always* a ham -- maybe more cryptic and less puffed-up, but the Euro affectations on E&D ("hey waiter, I'm first class") now seem like they're cut from the same cloth.
Which leads me to conclude that what really changed was the *music* -- and for some reason, that had never occurred to me before. Maybe because they were often so trance-y and grandiose on the good stuff, it was easy to miss the tight propulsiveness behind it... whereas "Alive and Kicking" is just shapeless, there's no rhythmic backbone holding it together at all. I seem to recall that the bass player defected to Propaganda's touring band between Sparkle and Once Upon A Time, which in retrospect makes a lot of sense (on both sides of the equation -- Propaganda had a lot of the same grandeur, but always with an eye on the dancefloor).
― Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Friday, 13 June 2003 03:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 June 2003 04:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 13 June 2003 05:41 (twenty years ago) link
Is that the Kibble Palace in on the back of the sleeve to Celebration?
They could perhaps win the prize for quickest dive from heroes to arse in rock. Street Fighting Years is terrible.
I watched them for a bit at Glastonbury in '95 and it was quite funny; Jim Kerr was leaping around as if he was in front of an audience of 50,000 adoring fans, and in fact there were about 500 bored crusties.
― Keith Watson (kmw), Thursday, 10 June 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 11 June 2004 10:11 (nineteen years ago) link
1. Life in a Day (Burchill/Kerr) - 4:06 2. Chelsea Girl (Burchill/Kerr) - 4:34 3. Premonition (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 5:29 4. Factory (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:15 5. Calling Your Name (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 5:07 6. I Travel (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:02 7. Changeling (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:13 8. Celebrate (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 5:10 9. Thirty Frames a Second (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 6:54 10. Kaleidoscope (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:17
― Mark, Friday, 11 June 2004 12:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 11 June 2004 12:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 11 June 2004 13:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― M Specktor, Friday, 11 June 2004 14:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 12 June 2004 00:18 (nineteen years ago) link
(Though I love both "Changeling" and "30 Frames..")
You're right, however. The earlier records are stranger, and appealingly so.
― M Specktor, Saturday, 12 June 2004 00:40 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 12 June 2004 00:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 00:55 (nineteen years ago) link
Wait that reminds me I must propose to Dan. Oh wait there's a problem there...
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:08 (nineteen years ago) link
I'd probably have more posts than you if it weren't for Tim.
― Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link
Tracer your euphamisms flow so naturally.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:21 (nineteen years ago) link
I know that! HMPH. I'll spare my jokes on other people!
(Baby still coming along okay?)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 03:11 (nineteen years ago) link
I cannae stand anything post-NGD. Altho, Futurama used "Dont you forget about me" to great (and sniffly) effect on one episode.
― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 03:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― dave q (listerine), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:40 (nineteen years ago) link
I loved New Gold Dream and Sparkle in the Rain but I remember seeing a Simple Minds concert in 84 and thinking Jim K was the corniest audience-pumper this side of Bono. "GIVE ME YOUR HONDS!"
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:54 (nineteen years ago) link
What a shame he took that walk with Bono on the beach and decided to become U3.
Is their cover of "Sign 'O' The Times" the worst cover version ever?
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:59 (nineteen years ago) link
OTM
― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:14 (nineteen years ago) link
did Kerr actually sing 'now he's doin' horse, it's June'? i can't remember
― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:15 (nineteen years ago) link
I saw them in 84 too and it's funny how quickly they ditched all their old material in pursuit of that stadium-appropriate sound. The whole set was Sparkle In The Rain/New Gold Dream stuff apart from 'The American' which I suppose was the one really bombastic song from the older albums.
― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link
That's on the Celebration compilation but where did they cull that song from? I've never heard it. Is it some lost b-side, and did they put it on the first Themes compilation?
I've never weighed on this thread, to my amazement. Classic up until New Gold Dream. I love how in "Twist/Run/Repulsion" the French girl's reciting an excerpt of Nevsky Prospect by Gogol.
― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:17 (nineteen years ago) link
The story is about a man who sees a beautiful girl everyday on the Nevsky Prospect in St. Petersburg and falls in love with her little by little. One day, she lets him follow her (this is detailed in the text quoted in "Twist/Run/Repulsion") up to her flat and he discovers that she's a prostitute. The character becomes dangerously depressed after knowing the truth about the girl he loves and dies at the end of the text.
TWIST is about this vertigo of love, when you feel you are falling in love, you feel a bit drunk, and you're leaving earth... RUN when you rush through the girl you love, when you've dare to talk to this girl who paralyzes you... REPULSION is the disappointment. She was "his innocent, his special one" and she's just a whore. She belongs to all the men who pass...
The excerpt quoted in the song is this (but I think this excerpt continues on for where it ends in "Twist/Run/Repulsion"):Mais était-il sûr d'être bien éveillé? Se pouvait-il que celle pour un céleste regard de qui il était prêt à donner sa vie, celle qu'il tenait déjà pour une ineffable bénédiction d'avoir pu suivre jusqu'à sa demeure, se pouvait-il qu'elle fût si bienveillante et attentionnée pour lui? Il gravit à grands pas l'escalier. Ses pensées n'étaient plus de la terre; il n'était point enflammé de l'ardeur d'une passion terrestre, non, il était à cet instant pur et exempt de vice comme l'adolescent virginal qui ne respire encore que vague besoin spirituel d'aimer. Et cela même qui, dans un homme corrompu, aurait éveillé d'immodestes pensées, ne faisait au contraire que purifier les siennes. Cette confiance que lui témoignait une belle et faible créature, cette confiance lui imposait le devoir d'une rigueur chevaleresque, le devoir d'exécuter servilement tous les ordres qu'elle lui donnerait. Il souhaitait seulement que ces ordres fussent les plus difficiles, les plus impossibles à exécuter, afin de pouvoir vouer davantage de ses forces à en surmonter la difficulté. il ne se doutait pas que quelque secrète et grave circonstance eût obligé l'inconnue à se fier à lui; qu'on allait sûrement exiger de lui d'exceptionnels services, et il sentait déjà en lui la force et la résolution de tout accomplir. L'escalier montait en spirale, et ses textes se pressaient dans le même tournoiement. "Avancez prudemment!" fit une voix dont le son était celui d'une harpe et qui fit encore vibrer tous ses nerfs. Dans l'obscurité du dernier étage l'inconnue frappa à une porte, celle-ci s'ouvrit et ils entrèrent ensemble. Une femme d'aspect assez agréable les accueillit une chandelle à la main, mais elle regarda Piskariov d'un air si singulier et si effronté qu'il baissa malgré lui les yeux. Ils pénétrèrent dans la pièce. Trois figures féminines, chacune dans son coin, se présentèrent à ses regards. L'une interrogeait les cartes; une autre, assise au piano, jouait avec deux doigts le pitoyable simulacre d'une ancienne polonaise; la troisième, devant un miroir, peignait ses longs cheveux et ne songeait pas un instant à interrompre sa toilette à l'arrivée d'un inconnu. On ne sait quel déplaisant désordre, tel qu'on ne peut le trouver que dans le logement négligé d'un célibataire, régnait de toutes parts. Les meubles, d'assez bonne apparence, étaient couverts de poussière; l'araignée avait garni de sa toile les moulures du lambris; à la porte entrebaillée d'une autre pièce brillait une botte avec son éperon et se devinaient les parements rouges d'un uniforme; une forte voix d'homme et un rire féminin se faisaient entendre sans la moindre contrainte.Dieu, où s'était-il fourvoyé! Il se refusa tout d'abord à y croire et commença à considérer plus attentivement les objets qui emplissaient la pièce; mais les murs nus et les fenêtres sans rideaux ne révélaient point la présence d'une maîtresse de maison soigneuse; les visages flétris de ces pitoyables créatures dont l'une vint s'asseoir presque sous son nez et l'examiner aussi tranquillement qu'une tâche sur un vêtement, tout cela ne lui laissa point douter qu'il venait d'entrer dans le repaire infâme où élit domicile la triste débauche qu'enfantent la civilisation de clinquant et d'effroyable entassement humain de la capitale. Ce repaire où l'homme, en sacrilège, a etouffé et voué à la risée tout ce qu'il y a de pur et de sain pour faire l'ornement de la vie, où la femme, cette beauté du monde, ce couronnement de la création, s'est métamorphosée en un être étrange et ambigu, où elle a dépouillé avec la pureté de l'âme toute féminité et assumé les allures et les impudences du mâle, et cessé d'être cette fragile créature si belle et si différente de nous. Piskariov la considérait des pieds à la tête, plein de stupeur, comme s'il avait voulu s'assurer encore que c'était bien celle qui l'vait ensorcelé et entraîné dans son sillage sur la Perspective Nevski. Mais elle était devant lui toujours aussi belle; sa cheveulure avait bien la même splendeur, ses yeux toujours le même éclat céleste. Elle était toute jeune, elle n'avait guère que dix-sept ans; il était visible que l'immonde débauche ne l'avait saisie que depuis peu et n'avait pas encore flétri ses joues, qui étaient fraîches et légèrement nuancées d'un délicat incarnat... Elle était belle.
― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link
When I saw them in '86 they added "Love Song" to the set and cranked up the wah-motorik factor in it but it was too little too late
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyway so I went home and played the real "Changeling" and realised that it sounds a lot like Tiefschwarz! "Thirty Frames A Second" too, though to a lesser extent.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 23 April 2005 08:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:20 (nineteen years ago) link
To be more specific about "Changeling", it sounds like what the Tiefschwarz remix of The Rapture's "Sister Saviour" should have been (I should cross-reference this post to an electro-house thread so that Ronan would have to track it down). I'd love to hear a DJ play it in a set.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link
But even in the midst of all this, my favourite album remains
http://www.earthwaverecords.com/Pictures/AlbumImg/S/A0042107.jpg
Every few years I simply must hear "East At Easter", or "Waterfront" or "C Moon Cry Like A Baby" (that one has especially been vexing my brain over the last few weeks from time to time for no apparent reason - also remember Kirsty MacColl sang on it). And yes the first song I heard from that album was "Up On The Catwalk" and that was when I was basically a musical virgin because that song was on one of the first tapes I ever made off of college radio - the first time I realized that the likes of Echo & The Bunnymen and The Smiths even existed. Some people don't like the production on Sparkle In The Rain, but it never bothered me. Remember: Kirsty MacColl was married to him and he produced U2's "War": Steve Lillywhite.
― The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:47 (nineteen years ago) link
Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw a connection with "Sister Saviour" and "Changeling"...in fact, I'd even venture to say the production for Echoes owes a ton to Real to Real Cacophony.
― Ian Riese-Moraine has a grenade, that pineapple's not just a toy! (Eastern Mantr, Sunday, 24 April 2005 20:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 24 April 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Monday, 25 April 2005 04:40 (nineteen years ago) link
Up on the wallGoing up on the wallUp on the wallNaked Eye Naked EyeWhat do you seeAnd what's there to learnReading your booksThird diagramSomeone's in the room down belowSomeone someoneSomeone belowInsectsCherriesTo the cherriesOn the wallSpider
― Momus (Momus), Monday, 25 April 2005 04:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Monday, 25 April 2005 05:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 1 July 2006 06:38 (seventeen years ago) link
If there is one Simple Minds album where they ditched all of their New Romantics roots and tried to become U3, then "Sparkle In The Rain" is it. After that they would at least gradually use synths to a somewhat larger extent again.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 2 July 2006 00:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― timmy tannin (pompous), Sunday, 2 July 2006 00:29 (seventeen years ago) link
I realized in the past few days that New Gold Dream is probably one of the albums I've had the longest and still listen to regualarly. I recently got the DVD audio thing and it's great. It's got different mixes of some tracks, which makes it all the more enjoyable.
I'm not sure they had New Romantic roots. It all seemed a bit more Punk/Genesis/Teutonic to me up until New Gold Dream, which sounds unlike any other New Romantic band. I suppose they did stick a bit of slap on, though, so that might count.
― KeefW (kmw), Sunday, 2 July 2006 00:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Vampire Business (Bimble...), Sunday, 2 July 2006 01:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Brian Turner (btwfmu), Sunday, 2 July 2006 22:55 (seventeen years ago) link
Oh man TELL US MORE (please).
― Andy_K (Andy_K), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:06 (seventeen years ago) link
Years later, i finally got E&D and it seemed a bit dull to me, though i like the intensity of the synth textures. As though the album lacks the something-different-next charm and pace of S&F. I only got R2R a year ago and i think it's extraordinary. I'd hoped to save E&D til later in life (ie now) and have some new discoveries waiting and that didn't quite happen, so it was nice to go further back and find R2R, though i love the brooding trance-ish NGD too.
I have a friend who's equally sentimental about S&F/SFC. We didn't seem to have much in common until we "bonded" over our shared love of that lp. It seems there are others fond of this stuff; a nice thread.
― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 3 July 2006 07:30 (seventeen years ago) link
I sort of feel like these albums are a bit underrated in terms of the UK post-punk canon, but that may simply be because I love them so much.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 3 July 2006 12:27 (seventeen years ago) link
There was this comp that came out quite a few years back:
http://simpleminds.com/mediaLibrary/images/english/240.jpg
1. 18-18 2. Tonight 3. Little Bitch 4. Pablo Picasso 5. Subway Sex 6. Lies 7. Wasteland 8. Act Of Love 9. European Son 10. Cocteau Twins 11. Chelsea Girl 12. Did You Ever? 13. Pleasantly Disturbed
― NickB (NickB), Monday, 3 July 2006 12:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Vampire Business (Bimble...), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 01:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 02:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 02:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 02:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 05:17 (seventeen years ago) link
Mr. Snrub -- uh, everything?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 05:24 (seventeen years ago) link
'Scuse me while I play "I Travel".
― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ is a GE Money Genie (ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!!), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 06:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― JTS (JTS), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 12:05 (seventeen years ago) link
Ahem.
They had a song called "Cocteau Twins" ????!?!??
Thus, indeed, where said band got its name.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 12:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 13:24 (seventeen years ago) link
Yes, isn't it the coolest thing? I read about that track for years and years before I ever heard it. I think everyone should hear that.
You know, I STILL haven't got into Reel To Reel Cacophony, yet. That's the mystery one, still. I used to have it on tape. Guess it didn't make much of an impression. Yeah, up through Once Upon A Time (which I really don't have a feeling about either way) they were the bee's knees and the only thing wrong with Don't You Forget About Me is it's been played too many times. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the band were really reluctant about doing that one. Kerr doubted it at first, etc.
― Lenny Koggins (Bimble...), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Lenny Koggins (Bimble...), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 16:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 10:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 11:01 (seventeen years ago) link
Themes for Great Cities [Stiff, 1982]Dance sources assure me that I heard all or most of this "Definitive Collection 79-81" in clubs during the years indicated, and it must be, since even today it makes me want to sit down on the spot. English DOR at its intricately ambient Eurodisco-cum-art-rock nadir, replete with steps for subtle metronomes and computerized sound effects that avoid vulgar sensationalism at all costs. Somebody take a good look at that singer's eyes and ask him whether he loves his mother. C-
New Gold Dreams (81-82-83-84) [A&M, 1983]With more effort than hedonism should ever require, I make out three or maybe four full-fledged melodies on this self-important, mysteriously prestigious essay in romantic escape. Though the textures are richer than in ordinary Anglodisco, they arouse nary a spiritual frisson in your faithful synesthetician. Auteur Jim Kerr is Bowie sans stance, Ferry sans pop, Morrison sans rock and roll. He says simple, I say empty and we both go home. C+
Once Upon a Time [A&M, 1985]Pittsburgh DJ in Billboard: "The term `superstar' is used too loosely. Simple Minds are a superstar to [A&M's] Charlie Minor, but a lot of my listeners have never heard of them." That's how bad things are, and that's not the half of it. Because you know damn well Charlie Minor thinks Simple Minds are "artists," too. B-
― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 11:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― lift up fong and see (haitch), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 13:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― Gary Abugan (henry chinaski), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link
Even the groovy drum fill before the "La la-la-la laaaa" part???
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 12 July 2006 12:47 (seventeen years ago) link
Great Cthulhu these are great! There's a 10 minute run through of "Speed Your Love To Me / Book Of Brilliant Things" that's the great long-lost electro-motorik for 1982-era disaffected club kids. Only with guitar!
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 00:03 (seventeen years ago) link
It was only a matter of time...
The original members of Simple Minds are due to work together for the first time in 27 years when they enter a recording studio in the middle of June '08. In an event that many never thought would happen again, Brian McGee, Derek Forbes, Mick McNeil, Jim Kerr and Charlie Burchill, have set their aim on producing at least two new tracks that could be released later this year. Regarded by both Jim and Charlie as a 'nice experiment', particularly as it falls within their 30 year anniversary, the week-long reformation is being viewed as one of many 'let's see what happens' ideas that they look forward to working on over the course of the next year.Jim Kerr said 'Of course I am excited with the prospect of working with the original line - up once more. I had always believed that the day would come when we would get the opportunity to do so. The last time we worked together was on our Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call album, featuring songs like The American, Themes for Great Cities, Love Song etc, and it is still considered by many as among our best ever work. We have a lot to live up to, but we intend to have some fun attempting to do just that.'You can find out more news regarding the session in June here at simpleminds.com
Jim Kerr said 'Of course I am excited with the prospect of working with the original line - up once more. I had always believed that the day would come when we would get the opportunity to do so. The last time we worked together was on our Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call album, featuring songs like The American, Themes for Great Cities, Love Song etc, and it is still considered by many as among our best ever work. We have a lot to live up to, but we intend to have some fun attempting to do just that.'
You can find out more news regarding the session in June here at simpleminds.com
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 29 May 2008 01:12 (fifteen years ago) link
As I muttered on Idolator, this can only work if they tie Kerr down and gag him.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 May 2008 01:18 (fifteen years ago) link
I continue to feel sorry for them. I mean it's like they just know they jumped the shark.
Holy batman I wanna hear those Sparkle In The Rain demos mentioned upthread.
― Bimble, Thursday, 29 May 2008 16:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Nobody seems to give a hoot that Simple Minds are playing "New Gold Dream" in its entirity (sp?) on their forthcoming tour. Someone somewhere (in summertime) must care?
― Rob M v2, Thursday, 29 May 2008 16:43 (fifteen years ago) link
I'd care if it was followed by a ceremonious burning of master tapes from 1984 or so forward.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 May 2008 16:54 (fifteen years ago) link
I'd throw some extra petrol onto that particular pyre, Ned.
― Rob M v2, Thursday, 29 May 2008 17:05 (fifteen years ago) link
I would care only if it was the same lineup that recorded New Gold Dream, otherwise it would be like watching Midge Ure perform all of Vienna. Yeah, the songs are great, but...
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 29 May 2008 19:51 (fifteen years ago) link
"Themes For Great Cities" anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FfCxLvV2nc
I mean holy hell. That is only a first place to START with these guys.
Do you think I've fucking forgotten about The American????! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FfCxLvV2nc
WERE THEY BETTER THAN U2????????????///
I fucking think they were better than early U2, yes.
― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 24 August 2008 09:06 (fifteen years ago) link
After pulling out some old SM for my Forgotten UK Singles mix, I re-listened to everything. Aside from Andy K's AMG entries, ILM is the only other place with anything interesting to say about their early albums. Great read!
― Fastnbulbous, Sunday, 22 March 2009 15:35 (fifteen years ago) link
Generally, Simple Minds were at their best until 1982, but after that "Real Life" and "Street Fighting Years" >>>>>>>>> "Sparkle In The Rain".
― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 22 March 2009 15:44 (fifteen years ago) link
Last night I read that after both Billy Idol and Bryan Ferry turned down Keith Forsey's offer of "Don't You...," Jim Kerr wasn't keen on the song either. Even though they went ahead and recorded it, Kerr never liked the song. Now I can't find where I read that. I wonder if he also didn't like Once Upon A Time. Street Fighting Years was a valiant attempt at an antidote to the embarrassing 80s bombast, but still sounds like a dud to me.
― Fastnbulbous, Sunday, 22 March 2009 16:02 (fifteen years ago) link
Street Fighting Years was a valiant attempt at an antidote to the embarrassing 80s bombast
?!? We're talking about a record produced by Trever Horn. It's bombast in excelsis!
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 22 March 2009 16:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Actually "Don't You Forget About Me" is a great song in a lot of ways, but it isn't a Simple Minds song, and it also helped pull them in the wrong direction although they were on the way in that direction on "Sparkle In The Rain" already.
"Street Fighting Years" I see more as a return to the bombast of their 80-82 era. It didn't work out quite as good, but it still had its moment, and I consider it a much better album than the U3,5 stadium rock of "Sparkle In The Rain" and "Once Upon a Time".
― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 22 March 2009 17:07 (fifteen years ago) link
I loved SFY as a kid and in a way I thank that album for being some kind of gateway to quality music. I haven't heard it in 20 years and have no real desire to.
― baaderonixx, Sunday, 22 March 2009 17:40 (fifteen years ago) link
Hrm, well it wasn't poppy bombast. It seems like they tried not to be too commercial.
― Fastnbulbous, Sunday, 22 March 2009 21:25 (fifteen years ago) link
I can see where you're coming from with that, Geir; however, it is a pretty poor album. I do still like a couple of tracks from it - the first one, and This is your land.
On the other hand, I have been very much enjoying the first couple of "Themes" compilations, especially the second one - I like quite a lot of Sparkle in the Rain, and the second themes thing has a a kind of long remix of "Shake off the ghosts"
― Keith, Sunday, 22 March 2009 21:36 (fifteen years ago) link
I saw them last night and, to my surprise, they did Love Song, I Travel and half of the NGD album. I should point out it was a free festival - I doubt I'd have gone if I'd had to go through the effort and expense of getting tickets. Pleasantly surprised, though, as I say.
― Daniel Giraffe, Monday, 6 July 2009 06:34 (fourteen years ago) link
Speaking of "Love Song" -- from 1981, a pretty amazing TV performance (it's just a mime to the studio cut, but dig, well, everything else!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq96dUQ87jk
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 8 October 2009 05:23 (fourteen years ago) link
LOLs at the satchel. Give us a sandwich, jimbo.
― Obscured by clowns (NickB), Thursday, 8 October 2009 07:10 (fourteen years ago) link
Nice name, called a tape that once.
― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 8 October 2009 07:20 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, I do love the random satchel. Definitely rocking a proto-Eldritch look too.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 8 October 2009 13:03 (fourteen years ago) link
That satchel contained all Jim Kerr's artistic integrity. He lost it along the way.
Seriously, does anyone know exactly what happened to this once-great band? Did they consciously choose to just sell out or was it evolutionary? Listening to "New Gold Dream" and "Sparkle In The Rain" yesterday, I've come all the way around in preferring the earlier arty stuff. Given the pop aspirations of those two records, "Don't You Forget About Me" clearly isn't the beginning of the end, though it is the point of no return. So it would seem that the move towards commerciality was gradual, like many of their peers who started off outside the mainstream of early 80s UK rock only to find themselves somehow embraced by it.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 8 October 2009 14:10 (fourteen years ago) link
Seriously, does anyone know exactly what happened to this once-great band?
Isn't what happened to them the same as what happened to just about every other arty post-punk band that didn't split up, though? I don't think a band-specific explanation is needed.
― Zelda Zonk, Thursday, 8 October 2009 14:28 (fourteen years ago) link
Not exactly. Yes, bands like Psychedelic Furs and Killing Joke put out one awful album, but then returned to their roots. Simple Minds just kept getting worse and worse.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 8 October 2009 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link
In relistening to the early albums a bit here, I'm a little surprised to realize that a slight unspoken influence on it all was Sparks, because there doesn't seem to be much of them as having such a role. But while Jim Kerr obviously isn't trying for Russell Mael's falsetto or anything, there's a lot of the hyperactive nervous tension at work as well the sense of instrumental stateliness that the Maels also can call up when so inclined, especially given the prominence of keyboards in both bands. Again, not wanting to overstate the carry-over but Life in a Day and Real to Real Cacophony have tangential connections to glam-era Sparks on that front, while Empire and Dance and Sons and Fascination parallel No. 1 in Heaven and Terminal Jive (for Moroder substitute Hillage, I guess). After that divergences were more pronounced.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 9 October 2009 17:27 (fourteen years ago) link
This fucking band, why the hell did they willingly go from this I'm about to link to where they ended up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p8jYN0qXxc
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 5 July 2010 19:47 (thirteen years ago) link
"I'm a little surprised to realize that a slight unspoken influence on it all was Sparks, because there doesn't seem to be much of them as having such a role. But while Jim Kerr obviously isn't trying for Russell Mael's falsetto or anything"
Yes, he does! Just listen 'No Cure', Ned - pure Maelism. And a few other tracks on 'Life In A Day' too, though not so blatantly.
― zeus, Friday, 20 August 2010 10:24 (thirteen years ago) link
who here has heard all these albums? you win a prize if you have.
# Live in the City of Light (1987) (2-LP/2-CD) live album# Street Fighting Years (1989) 8th studio album# Real Life (1991) 9th studio album# Good News from the Next World (1995) 10th studio album# Neapolis (1998) 11th studio album# Our Secrets are the Same (originally 2000) 12th studio album (finally issued as CD#5 from Silver Box (2004))# Neon Lights (2001) (covers album)# Cry (2002) 13th studio album# Black & White 050505 (2005) 14th studio album# Sunday Express - Live (Volumes 1 & 2) (2007) (2-CD live album) (promotional exclusive Sunday Express free release)# Graffiti Soul (2009) 15th studio album# Searching for the Lost Boys (2009) (bonus covers album included in the "Graffiti Soul" Deluxe edition 2-CD set)
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 03:58 (thirteen years ago) link
think i need to hear neapolis!
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 03:59 (thirteen years ago) link
and to think that there are seven whole other albums that i adore! (once upon a time i can live without)
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:00 (thirteen years ago) link
I still haven't heard Life In A Day. (or indeed anything past "Don't You Forget About Me" since I was very young in the 80s). Is it really worth it?
― Tim F, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:15 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't know? i had no idea they were so prolific. never heard anything past the 80's either. but i gather its just mr. ex-chrissie hynde and lots of session people for a lot of later stuff. kinda have a morbid curiosity.
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:21 (thirteen years ago) link
just so weird because everything up to and including sparkle in rain i dig SO much and then i have almost no interest because of what happened post-john hughes.
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:22 (thirteen years ago) link
No I meant the first album, sorry my post was a bit confusing.
― Tim F, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:23 (thirteen years ago) link
oh sorry! i'm tired. i like it. it's their roxy/magazine album. they were aping other people but they did it pretty good. i pretty much listen to anything like that from 1979, so, i'm not all that picky.
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:27 (thirteen years ago) link
but, jeez, listening to empires and dance tonight, that always sounds so amazing to me. everything from that first line-up 79 to 81. i love it. 3 years! that's nothing now. they made 4 amazing albums in that time after life in a day.
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i think Neapolis was supposed to be a return to the classic sound, heard it's not so great tho
― buzza, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i might youtube some stuff tomorrow, but i'm a little afraid to...
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:34 (thirteen years ago) link
hey i liked some of that new OMD anyway.
― scott seward, Saturday, 26 March 2011 04:35 (thirteen years ago) link
just mr. ex-chrissie hynde and lots of session people for a lot of later stuff.
that's what did these guys in. i gave up after reviewing Real Life w/o enthusiasm.
early stuff like "I Travel" has aged v well.
― attention zabahz shoppers... (m coleman), Saturday, 26 March 2011 11:24 (thirteen years ago) link
I still like "Don't You Forget About Me" more than most people seem to, tho it obviously isn't a patch on their earlier work. It was "Belfast Child" that nailed down the coffin and posted it to the moon imo
― a SB-in' artist that been in the game for a minute (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 26 March 2011 11:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah it's a pretty astonishing run as much for how they so effortlessly switch up their sound each time and remain so good. Of the albums from Reel To Real.. to New Gold Dream I can never decide whether Sons & Fascination/Sister Feelings Call are ever so slightly lesser or actually secretly the most interesting, and that's probably the SM I've listened to most in the past couple of years, it's like a puzzle.
One thing that interests me and I don't know much about is whether and how the band was responding to currents around them. I mean obv Reel To Real... is their experimental electronic post-punk record and as unprecedented as it sounds to me I can get why they were interested in making a record like that. But what provoked the shift to an even more electronic, pseudo-discoid sound on Empires and Dance? What were they listening to? And if they were really into disco or whatever, why did they suddenly switch to elaborate art rock less than year later? And if they were really into elaborate art rock, why the switch to synth pop less than a year after that? Were they just following their own muse, or was this reflective of micro-movements in trends that have (apart from the general notion of post-punk --> new pop) now been submerged? I wouldn't know.
― Tim F, Saturday, 26 March 2011 23:16 (thirteen years ago) link
it's a mystery! i would like to read some interviews from that time. were they huge krautrock fans? Empires and Dance has that vibe. Hunters & Collectors tried the krautrock thing around the same time with Conny Plank, but the results were nowhere near as good.
we know for sure that they were big Roxy fans. Big Bowie fans. Big Magazine fans. They had to have been big Ultravox fans. Ultravox mach one. Empires definitely has the Factory vibe as well, so we can assume that they were aware of and listening to Joy Division.
okay, looking over their wikipedia page - which is actually fairly comprehensive and well-written - this is interesting:
"The next album, Empires and Dance, was another stylistic departure, and signalled the influence of Kraftwerk, Neu! and similar European artists on the band. During this period of their career Simple Minds promoted themselves as being a European band, rather than Scottish or British."
I don't know HOW they promoted themselves as "European" exactly, but it makes sense. The album covers. The song titles. The whole aesthetic. They were loving the German thing.
― scott seward, Sunday, 27 March 2011 00:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Recently, I listened to a radio Scotland interview with Kerr around '84 or so, maybe earlier, just as Sparkle was coming out and they had just done a short UK tour and I was surprised at how crazed and preachy he sounded, albeit in an amusing way. But he was talking about music in really similar terms to how Bono did back then. I'm certain something did happen just prior to NGD, enough to make them junk the European Guy schtick and move wholeheartedly towards The Big Music, which was more fashionable, arguably more in keeping with their roots and much more potentially profitable. They also had Mel Gaynor by this point, a big loud, capable rock drummer.
― MaresNest, Sunday, 27 March 2011 08:20 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh yeah, if you were still doing plink-plonk barely melodic stuff in 1984, you were doing it wrong. Anthems is where the money was.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 27 March 2011 09:00 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm certain something did happen just prior to NGD, enough to make them junk the European Guy schtick and move wholeheartedly towards The Big Music
Jim Kerr met Bono
― Tom D (Tom D.), Monday, 28 March 2011 14:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah but for all that the songs are 'bigger' and more straightforward 'new gold dream' actually sounds less like U2 than 'sons and fascination' does. That's what I find interesting about the band's early career: all the reversals.
― Tim F, Monday, 28 March 2011 21:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Maybe we shouldn't have cashed in
― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 24 February 2012 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
Nice fauxhawk there, Jim.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 24 February 2012 21:00 (twelve years ago) link
OMG that haircut he looks like a hungover monk
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Friday, 24 February 2012 22:25 (twelve years ago) link
Good article anyway. Classic older-but-wiser moves. M. I always love that 'total hamburger music' story you tell upthread.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 24 February 2012 22:30 (twelve years ago) link
oh yeah - even though I still have a soft spot for "don't you forget about me" this all sounds promising.
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Friday, 24 February 2012 22:36 (twelve years ago) link
I have the X5 box set on it's way, looking forward to the bonus tracks and the full immersion!
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 24 February 2012 22:45 (twelve years ago) link
There was an interview in the Quietus the other day too:
http://thequietus.com/articles/08040-simple-minds-jim-kerr-interview-5x5
― Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Friday, 24 February 2012 22:49 (twelve years ago) link
2 revived threads one common love.
― mark e, Friday, 24 February 2012 23:00 (twelve years ago) link
"I was like [he puts his head in his hands and groans]: 'We're the Boomtown Rats! This is fucked!'"
― Andy K, Friday, 24 February 2012 23:28 (twelve years ago) link
i would like to assume that bob had that happen at some point.
― mark e, Friday, 24 February 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
haha!
― Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Friday, 24 February 2012 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
I remember being quite impressed when I heard Empires And Dance for the first time. It was definitely a bit of an eye-opening experience because up until that point I'd only heard the big hits from the "stadium rock" years. I also like how that cover is blatantly where the Manic Street Preachers nicked the font from for the artwork to The Holy Bible.
― Turrican, Saturday, 25 February 2012 01:18 (twelve years ago) link
Still don't understand why Once Upon A Time gets more grief than Joshua Tree, for example
This band was 1000000x times more interesting than Brian En...sorry U2
― Master of Treacle, Saturday, 25 February 2012 03:23 (twelve years ago) link
I'd understand if you're debating both albums song by song, but just because Rolling Stone and Q writers thought U2 did the arena thing better doesn't negate the fact that everyone else (pretty much) prefers the early stuff of both bands anyway...and Simple Minds' early stuff is leagues above U2's
― Master of Treacle, Saturday, 25 February 2012 03:26 (twelve years ago) link
I know exactly three Simple Minds songs: "Don't You Forget About Me" "All the Things She Said" and "Alive and Kicking." And I'm having a really hard time picturing this same band in arty Radiohead mode. This thread has piqued my curiosity and I'm checking this Reel to Real Cacophony out. Should I start there or with New Gold Dream?
― Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 25 February 2012 04:39 (twelve years ago) link
I had to go back and listen and see whether I thought this description and praise of "Promised You a Miracle" from the Quietus article was overstated:
'Promised You A Miracle' for all its accessibility and retrospective familiarity is as far a cry from the preset patterns of regular pop as can be imagined. It teeters arrhythmically, glitters and starts, breaks out in distant showers of tinsel and manna. It conjures not just possibilities for a better pop but a better life, to which music could act as some sort of wormhole.
And indeed after doing so, I don't think that it is. Extraordinary record.
― timellison, Saturday, 25 February 2012 04:57 (twelve years ago) link
yes, i remember simple minds, more than any early 80s band, seeming to point the way to some "better" music world, and that is why so many fans feel like an intense betrayal took place when they went big & bland. sparkle in the rain was the turning point but i feel there were still some great songs on it albeit with a too heavyhanded steve lilywhite touch. once upon a time was 95% shit.
― buzza, Saturday, 25 February 2012 05:04 (twelve years ago) link
Mr. Snrub: Reel to Real = SM at their most arty. Something akin to what Wire and Magazine were doing at the time (and early Human League in places too). New Gold Dream = less so, though none the worse for it. Just not as "experimental".
― fit and working again, Saturday, 25 February 2012 05:37 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1KCqWHhXK8
― Turrican, Sunday, 26 February 2012 06:31 (twelve years ago) link
The X5 box set is a total joy, particularly loving "Reel To Reel" and Empires. There's lots of what-IS-that-sound moments such as the buzzsaw synth on "Changeling" as well as brilliant mutant krautrock like "30 Frames A Second". Even the Bowie/Roxy pastiche of the debut is great fun. Hurray for new opinions of old material!
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 4 March 2012 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
And, really, "Twist/Run/Repulsion" is so wonderfully insane.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 4 March 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
Wow. Indeed it is. Especially to someone like me who knew nothing about Simple Minds beyond "Don't You Forget About Me" and Once Upon A Time. Got some catching up to do, evidently.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 4 March 2012 22:22 (twelve years ago) link
Totally blown away by this. It's an exact crossbreed of Roxy Music and OMD, but so good and so cool and such fun.
http://youtu.be/3WXXyacakRo
― dorsalstop, Monday, 5 March 2012 21:37 (twelve years ago) link
Let's try that again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXXyacakRo
― dorsalstop, Monday, 5 March 2012 21:38 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, Simple Minds had a ridiculously good set of influences that you can spot in lots of their early work - Roxy, Magazine, Kraftwerk, Bowie, Eno...
― Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Monday, 5 March 2012 22:35 (twelve years ago) link
picked up 5*5 today on a whim.
debut passed me by and will need a few more spins, ears pricked up a little more with reel to reel, but then i put on empires and dance, and f*ck me.
'i travel' is just huge.
never expected that.
do things get any better i wonder ..
― mark e, Monday, 18 June 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
Sons and Fascination is probably my favourite, so in my opinion YES THEY DO
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Monday, 18 June 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
One thing I love about those early Simple Minds albums is Derek Forbes' bass playing. Respect to him for jumping ship at the right time, though.
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 18 June 2012 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
blasted I Travel on the way to work this morning
― buzza, Monday, 18 June 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
to follow up my earlier post : things do indeed get better.this stuff is absolutely fantastic.the 1st two albums i need to live with a little longer i think before the penny drops, whereas the rest of this boxset is superb.
― mark e, Monday, 18 June 2012 22:31 (eleven years ago) link
I think the band themselves were disappointed by the way the first album turned out. Best thing on Real To Real Cacophony is Changeling.
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Monday, 18 June 2012 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbvwKqotIAY
this fear of god : the missing link between shriekback and crackdown era cabaret voltaire.
― mark e, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 10:23 (eleven years ago) link
good spot!
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 10:31 (eleven years ago) link
so according to mojo article, derek was never supposed to be bass player, but due to his les paul getting half inched ended up doing the bass lines.
how f*cking lucky is that as i totally agree that his presence in the bands sound is a large factor as to why i have fallen hard for this stuff.
if this is the result then more guitarists need to be a victim of theft, and pick up the bass guitar.
(actually thats not that bad a piece of advise for 2012 .. )
― mark e, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
Empires And Dance = Real To Real Cacophony > Sons And Fascination > Life In A Day > Sister Feelings Call
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:58 (eleven years ago) link
Nice to see the early Simple Minds stuff getting its due. There was a while there where I would only listen to Empires and Dance alone because I was tired for having to explain myself.
The recent box set is excellent and it's definitely nice to have those bonus tracks more widely available.
I have a question for those of you who bought the 2003 remastered CDs and the x5 box: how does the remastering differ between the two, if at all?
It's also got me eyeing that copy of Sparkle in the Rain at my local used CD place. It's one that I've never heard, writing it off years ago as something from the "new" (read: more produced) version of the band that I was not interested in.
― Austin, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
EUROPE HAS A LANGUAGE PROBLEM!
― Turrican, Friday, 11 December 2015 22:54 (eight years ago) link
Currently spinning Empires and Dance after not listening to it for a while, and once more wondering why 'I Travel' wasn't the huge smash hit that it deserved to be.
― Turrican, Friday, 11 December 2015 22:55 (eight years ago) link
Where I come from I Travel was nauseatingly ubiquitous. It's cool though. Decades have passed.
― everything, Friday, 11 December 2015 23:00 (eight years ago) link
Holy cow, the X5 box is going for $75 and up. I guess print runs these days are miniscule.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 24 January 2016 02:36 (eight years ago) link
And even more on Amazon! Glad I picked it up.
― Austin, Sunday, 24 January 2016 02:52 (eight years ago) link
Listening to the 5x5 live album. I'm not a big live album guy but this is shockingly fun. Whoever's doing the bass lines is killing it. It's more guitar focused than the studio takes but it all sounds great and the song choices flow really well.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 20 August 2017 19:52 (six years ago) link
the bass player was some guy from danny wilson if you can remember them. can't be easy filling derek forbes shoes though
― plp will eat itself (NickB), Sunday, 20 August 2017 21:19 (six years ago) link
It's an enjoyable album if you can overlook the fact that Jim sings songs like Factory and Calling Your Name like they were on Street Fighting Years
― PaulTMA, Monday, 21 August 2017 14:36 (six years ago) link
love that bass guitar ZAP sound that occurs at the end of every (other?) measure during "seeing out the angel".. simple but badass..like getting electrocuted but funky
― brimstead, Monday, 21 August 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
simple minds, demigods of bass slappage and poppage
― brimstead, Monday, 21 August 2017 23:39 (six years ago) link
So there's a new album, and there's a new promo photo.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPGfT72VQAIzOrV.jpg:large
This has garnered various reactions. A friend made an edit:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPGslppVoAALtpb.jpg:large
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 20 November 2017 21:06 (six years ago) link
Oh yeah, this band are still going and didn't break up in 1984 like I often pretend they did.
― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:11 (six years ago) link
rotten bastards - surely one of them could have helped jim up off the floor?
― damian green is people (NickB), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
Charlie's not paid enough for that now.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 20 November 2017 21:13 (six years ago) link
after all jim's done for him too
― damian green is people (NickB), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:14 (six years ago) link
Man, do I dislike their Breakfast Club anthem
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 01:02 (six years ago) link
You don’t seem to say much about the song itself (you know, musically)?
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 01:16 (six years ago) link
I saw the Simple Minds a few weeks ago. As alcoholic dementia is setting in I'll say it was a fine show (I have no capacity to evaluate quality of live performance for bands covering their own past glory). Worked well enough but I have been obsessed with Simple Minds videos since that night due to alcoholic dementia.
In particular I have been listening to "All the Things She Said, the first line of which I have been trying to parse and can only arrive at "Don't you look back on a bagel or swirl."
This AM I googled the lyrics and apparently it's "Don't you look back on a big lost world." I think that's fucking total BS. Listen to it clearly, he's saying "bagel."
Get fucked, LyricsDB.com
― fields of salmon, Friday, 19 October 2018 00:56 (five years ago) link
From our local paper, seems like a nice guy:
The brother of the lead singer of Simple Minds has been jailed for nine years after a judge deemed he was a danger to the public after stalking two fans.Paul Kerr, brother of rock star Jim Kerr, accused J0hn Fagan of rape and murder and threatened to sexually assault his wife Julie in what started out as an online spat over the Don’t You (Forget About Me) band’s latest album.
Paul Kerr, brother of rock star Jim Kerr, accused J0hn Fagan of rape and murder and threatened to sexually assault his wife Julie in what started out as an online spat over the Don’t You (Forget About Me) band’s latest album.
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18141149.simple-minds-jim-kerrs-brother-paul-kerr-jailed-nine-years-stalking-fans/
― Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 09:53 (four years ago) link
9 years is a long sentence. I was going to say that prison sentences in Scotland are usually a lot shorter than in England when I realized this trial was in England.
― Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 13 January 2020 10:45 (four years ago) link
yeah it does sound p severe for an online argument, but his previous offences are a bit of a worry:
“I note that your previous convictions both arose out of seemingly innocuous business disputes, one which resulted in the victim’s home being set alight and the second in you breaking into the victim’s home and assaulting them with a weapon.“I therefore find that you pose a significant risk to members of the public of serious harm occasioned by you.”
“I therefore find that you pose a significant risk to members of the public of serious harm occasioned by you.”
― Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 10:51 (four years ago) link
Are we sure he never played drums for the Housemartins?
― Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 13 January 2020 11:47 (four years ago) link
haha
― Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 12:05 (four years ago) link
the Don’t You (Forget About Me) band
ouch
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 15:39 (four years ago) link
fuck. reading the story the spark of the campaign of abuse was mr fagan replying to a facebook post by paul kerr saying the new simple minds album was "pure shit".
― bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:11 (four years ago) link
it's a wonder any ILXors still have unburnt houses
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:13 (four years ago) link
we don't live in houses -- unless you mean glass houses
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:14 (four years ago) link
and all fagan actually wrote was:
"I’ve been a fan for more than 30 years and I think it’s a mistake to get rid of the two former band members."
― bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:16 (four years ago) link
I’ve been a fan for more than 30 years
eh, one of the new fans then, he's got no right to criticize
― Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:20 (four years ago) link
haven't dug into this story myself - did anything actually happen outside of the online threats jim?
― Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:23 (four years ago) link
it was a real campaign of harassment, he had became totally obsessed with them, ended with him saying he was coming to their town with a baseball bat to attack them and then him getting arrested because he had emailed two police forces to the effect that he was going to kill them
― bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:27 (four years ago) link
sweet christ
― Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:28 (four years ago) link
It looks as if Fagan was trolling Paul Kerr pretty hard on Facebook, now that I Google around a bit. Not that it merited being threatened and slandered as a pedophile, but it was hardly innocuous comments about the latest Simple Minds album:
https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/10/18/simple-minds-singers-brother-was-also-targeted-on-facebook-jury-told/
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:36 (four years ago) link
the plot thickens!
― bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:41 (four years ago) link
facebook is making people crazy, wtf
― Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:43 (four years ago) link
Hate to think what would have happened had got started on the surfeit of bad acoustic, covers and live albums
― PaulTMA, Monday, 13 January 2020 17:51 (four years ago) link
Live in the City of Light is classic tho
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:53 (four years ago) link
You can take the boy out of Toryglen...
― Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:39 (four years ago) link
Judge Stephen Mooney asked: “How many mankinis does a man need?”
― groovypanda, Tuesday, 14 January 2020 08:02 (four years ago) link
"Big Sleep" is so great
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 12 February 2021 19:09 (three years ago) link
Yes, a wonderful song that shows how expressive and expansive they could be when they didn't have to freight everything with "importance".
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 12 February 2021 19:35 (three years ago) link
I am in fact listening to the new one to kick off October 21, Day of Riches
it's kind of bad sure but also much more enjoyable than expected, will def get 'surprisingly good later work' kudos
― imago, Friday, 21 October 2022 08:29 (one year ago) link
the songs are nothing special but it is notably well produced and has a good sound, v bright and vigorous
― imago, Friday, 21 October 2022 08:42 (one year ago) link
It's their best album since Scary Monsters.
Just finished Graeme Thompson's book about the early Minds (stopping wisely after 'Once Upon A Time') it is definitely worth any fan's investigation.
― MaresNest, Friday, 21 October 2022 10:48 (one year ago) link
It's alriiiight
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Friday, 21 October 2022 11:08 (one year ago) link
Album that is, not book
The last TFF keeps coming to mind and I'd say they're on par
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Friday, 21 October 2022 11:09 (one year ago) link
Definitely some likable stuff on here, the mastering is absurdly bad though. Celtic fiddly bits of 'Solstice Kiss' not welcome
― PaulTMA, Friday, 21 October 2022 11:39 (one year ago) link
Solstice Kiss was the best song
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Friday, 21 October 2022 12:28 (one year ago) link
Yeah, possibly, although the title's use in the lyrics is hilariously clunky, you can imagine these old codgers trying to think of inspiration and coming up with this
― imago, Friday, 21 October 2022 12:54 (one year ago) link
Next album: Ash Wednesday Hug
― imago, Friday, 21 October 2022 12:55 (one year ago) link
Simple Minds Superfans Can Invest In A New Gold Dream: Songwriting + Sound Recording Royalties For 1977-1981 Material Now Up For Sale
As of last weekend, someone was selling the royalty rights to an early career batch of 107 songs by Simple Minds. Jim Kerr and Charlie Burchill, the current members of Simple Minds Tours Ltd. sold their catalog to their current label, BMG. These are the sorts of big money deals where rock stars of as certain age take a cash out and at least in this case, they didn’t sell to one of the upstart music IP firms like Hipgnosis. And they are becoming very commonplace.Given the list of songs, and the points in time where past members exited the band, I’m suspecting that these rights being auctioned are from original drummer Brian McGee’s shares in the band. His time ended in 1981 as he was taken to the limit in his years playing drums, and yes, driving the band all over Europe in vans since he was the one with a driver’s license. If it were Derek Forbes, it would include material from “New Gold Dream [81, 82, 83, 84]” and “Sparkle In The Rain.” McNeill only left after “Street Fighting Years.” So it has to be McGee.
Given the list of songs, and the points in time where past members exited the band, I’m suspecting that these rights being auctioned are from original drummer Brian McGee’s shares in the band. His time ended in 1981 as he was taken to the limit in his years playing drums, and yes, driving the band all over Europe in vans since he was the one with a driver’s license. If it were Derek Forbes, it would include material from “New Gold Dream [81, 82, 83, 84]” and “Sparkle In The Rain.” McNeill only left after “Street Fighting Years.” So it has to be McGee.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 26 April 2023 06:34 (eleven months ago) link