Natalie Merchant:WHat Happened?

Whereas I couldn't stand 10,000 Maniacs, but think "Tigerlilly" is terrific!

I'm with you, Mike . . . my deep, dark secret is that I was largely turned on to indie music by Hope Chest, In My Tribe, and The Wishing Chair --- of which that last currently retains the most punch. My perspective is that Merchant was only useful as a vocalist, and that much of the band's early creative strength came from behind the guitars. To wit:

(a) When the driving force behind the band was John Lombardo --- The Wishing Chair and the Hope Chest material --- they were clearly at their most interesting, their most adventurous, and their best.

(b) When John Lombardo left and the driving force behind the band became Robert Buck --- In My Tribe, mainly --- the band was still solid, but in a very different, very bordering-on-cheese kind of way.

(c) When Natalie starting taking over --- some of Blind Man's Zoo and the execrable Our Time in Eden --- the border of cheese was neatly crossed with all passports in order.

(d) Tigerlily.

i'm a 90s nat fan, though ophelia was lacking, but live album was nice

Blind Man's Zoo has some real crap. Trouble Me and Happy Puppet are the only reedemable moments. In My Tribe seems now like it wasnt even her, some other lass, who wrote interesting lyrics

10,000 Maniacs was seminial for me in the 80s as well. Wishing Chair & Tribe were primo, though I agree Hope Chest now sounds better than Tribe. Tuned out completely after Blind Man's, which I eventually sold.

Nitsuh: Does John & Mary's output support your Lombardo thesis? Have not heard.

Well, Mark, there's a related theory on that one. The recent Maniacs stuff, with John back, has been quite limp as well -- not as limp as Natalie by any stretch, but still pretty awful. My excuse for this is that Natalie and Rob (but surely mostly Natalie) wound up dragging the band into adult-contemporary territory, pretty much forever cementing their audience there and ruining any chance for a return to anywhere near the fringe. So I'd argue that (a) they've gotten old and lame, as so many artists do, and (b) they weren't offered much choice other than running with the old and lame fan base they'd accumulated after "Because the Night."

Seriously: give me a problem with the world, and I'll figure out a way to blame it on Natalie. Although I must admit, I was watching a documentary last week on the Billy Bragg / Wilco / Guthrie project, in which she appeared, and I got to remembering why I liked her so much to begin with. So well-meaning . . . but I liked it better back when she was awkward and spinning in circles while Buck beat "My Mother the War" out of his guitar.

"My Mother the War" was by 10,000 Maniacs? I always thought it was by upstate NY soundalike chancers Mambo X. Yikes, I guess I'm wrong, and there is a 10,000 Maniacs song that I actually like.

God, I hated 10,000 Maniacs from my first exposure to them and haven't looked back -- however, as Nitsuh notes, there's an early part of the band's days I don't know at all, and were in not for the fact that Natalie Merchant *BUGS THE LIVING FUCK OUT OF ME* I might be tempted to give that a listen. But I won't.

Nitsuh, still not clear if you've ever heard John & Mary.

I was really into Tigerlily in grade school.

They're the most PC band in the history of music.

No wonder Michael Stipe tapped that.

!!!

Have nothing to add to what Nitsuh said, exactly my experience with 'em.

Hope Chest is one of my all time favorite records; the live album is great. After that ("carnival" aside) all bets are off.

I think that what's happened to Natalie Merchant now can best be described as "karma".

While I feel the need to agree, I need more specifics in terms of recent activity.

Yusif Islam declared a fatwa (sic) on her.