POX: Talking Heads

peasy

These are off the top of my head (wouldn't have it any other way):
Born Under Punches (i think i've mentioned before that this is the greatest song ever recorded)
Pulled Up
Mind
A Clean Break
The Great Curve
This Must Be the Place
Nothing But Flowers
Stay Hungry
Girlfriend Is Better (live)

Incidentally, I really love Talking Heads, and I'm deeply saddened that few share my love for the greatest song ever recorded :(

Although I can't not mention Crosseyed & Painless, Psycho Killer, Drugs, I Zimbra, And She Was, Wild Wild Life, Nothing But Flowers, Mr. Jones, Girlfriend is Better, The Good Thing, Naive Melody (This Must Be The Place), Swamp, Heaven, Cities, or The Overload, that would just be wrong.

Which song is that, Adam? (I really love the Heads too, btw, one of my favorite favorite groups.)

Thank You For Sending Me An Angel
Once In A Lifetime
Uh-Oh, Love Comes To Town (esp. if I mishear it as "shit crap is on the ground")
Found A Job
Drugs
Pulled Up
Mind
The Big Country
Love Goes To Building On Fire
Born Under Punches

What a great band. Never talked about: David Byrne's ability to occasionally write the saddest song in the world. Witness my top three.

BORN UNDER PUNCHES

11, sorry

"Pulled Up"
"Take Me To The River"
"Heaven"
"Life During Wartime" (I prefer one of the live versions, thanks)
"Crosseyed & Painless"
"The Great Curve"
"Once In A Lifetime"
"Girlfriend Is Better"
"Road To Nowhere"
"And She Was"

the recent new you tube stuff has got me back into these guys again. hard to 'do the pox' though.

making flippy floppy (stop making sense version)
born under punches
found a job
(nothing but) flowers
slippery people (stop making sense version)
burning down the house (stop making sense version)
the girls want to be with the girls
life during wartime (stop making sense)
with our love
the great curve

I was positive that there was already a Talking Heads POX thread. Turns out I was half-right:

Talking Heads - Pick Only 5

"Memories Can't Wait"
"Warning Sign"
"Psycho Killer"
"Burning Down the House"
"Life During Wartime"
"Love -> Building on Fire"
"Heaven"
"Sugar on my Tongue"
"Don't Worry About The Government"
"No Compassion"

Seriously - too hard - can we have 'tie entries?' - 'Cause "This Must Be The Place" and "Crosseyed and Painless" and "Pulled Up" and "Making Flippy Floppy" and "The Great Curve" and "I Zimbra" should get in there too ... I'm going to ilxor hell for suggesting additions to a POX list, aren't I ...

Burning Down the House
Psycho Killer
Life During Wartime
I Zimbra
Heaven
Wild Wild Life
The Lady Don't Mind
Road to Nowhere
Once in A Life Time
Love For Sale

1. "Love --> Building on Fire," the live version on The Name Of This Band Is...

I'll have to think about the other IX, but WATCH THIS NOW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVIKF03KkVM

"Born Under Punches," live in Rome, 1980. AMAZING. "I'm not a drowning man! I'm not a burning building!!" Adrian Belew in full effect.

Went on my first TH deed dive after listening to a seven hour Bandsplain. Man, I’ve really been missing out.

Don’t Worry About the Government
The Book I Read
Girlfriend is Better
Tentative Decisions
Thank You For Sending Me An Angel
Life During Wartime
Once in a Lifetime
The Big Country
Crosseyed and Painless
Warning Sign

Nothing after 1983?

With my unaccustomed ears the dryer production of the earlier stuff really struck a nerve. The band functions like like a drum set on the first few albums with each instrument hitting individual beats and I don’t like all the additional layers applied in the later stuff when it gets all wet.

Those are a couple of terribly composed sentences but you get what I’m trying to say.

Those are a couple of terribly composed sentences but you get what I’m trying to say.

Those are a couple of terribly composed sentences but you get what I’m trying to say.

I was a little put out at the Bandsplain dismissiveness towards The Overload. Sure, it’s not the best thing on the album but it totally fits. It’s like…. someone who’s been attacked by all of these sounds and visions is now approaching a catatonic state, like the tail end of psychedelics where you don’t want anymore input but you can’t sleep. A perfect ending.

It's especially unsettling after the Naipaul-esque terrorist narrative "Listening Wind."

Yeah I enjoyed the Bandsplain overall, but it was oddly light on Remain in Light, focused more on all the albums around it. And I agree, I've never thought The Overload was out of place. Not an album highlight as a standalone track, but works with the mood of the whole.

I did not know about Eno wanting co-billing on the album. He's obviously crucial to it but that's still a bit of chutzpah.

?! wow, I bet that detail is in Rip It Up And Start Again, but I had forgotten it

Supposedly he got talked out of it on the grounds that if the album was credited to "Talking Heads and Brian Eno" he'd have to tour with them in support of it, which he didn't want to do.

Loved the part about George Clinton allegedly inducing Tina’s labor by placing his hands on her belly.

Remain On Light is tremendously front loaded imo

*in

did not know about Eno wanting co-billing on the album. He's obviously crucial to it but that's still a bit of chutzpah.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, September 10, 2023 4:28 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglin

I think he deserves it tbh

He sort of had his way years later with Wah Wah. James on the proper case but James/Eno on the sticker.

He played, sang, produced, and co-wrote the jams. He earned it.

Tina wants a word

(assuming you are referring to TH)

Oh yeah, he's a full partner in the album and he has co-writing credit on all the songs. But equal billing on a band's fourth album is still a lot for a producer to ask.

Eh, he had literally just done it with David Byrne for "Bush of Ghosts," so it probably tracks that he would want to do it again for "Remain In Light." Years ago there was an in depth piece on "Once in a Lifetime" on NPR, I think, and it was revealed that Eno wrote the chorus; before that it was just the static A part, with Byrne's declarations. It looks like wiki sums it up thus:

The track was initially not one of Eno's favorites, and the band almost abandoned it. According to keyboardist Jerry Harrison, "Because there were so few chord changes, and everything was in a sort of trance ... it became harder to write defined choruses." However, Byrne had faith in the song and felt he could write lyrics to it. Eno developed the chorus melody by singing wordlessly, and the song "fell into place".

For writing the chorus alone, to one of the TH's most beloved songs and the high point of this album ... sure, give him the credit.

FWIW, later Eno co-credits were a little more convoluted. For "Zooropa," Eno had his own studio; the band would work on stuff in one, and then hand it off to him to complete in the other one. I dunno if it was ever going to be credited to U2 and Eno, but "Passengers" reportedly was, until the record label (iirc) intervened. "Wah Wah" was worked on the same way as "Zooropa," with Eno getting his own second studio, but I guess James was OK with the co-credit. Though honestly, I think some of Eno's collaborations were extensive enough that co-credits might have been justified. Bowie's Berlin trilogy, for example, but especially "Low" and "Heroes," where he and Bowie get entire sides to stretch out as a duo, more or less (and of course, as with "Once in a Lifetime," noteworthy that Eno gets a writing credit on the song "Heroes," likewise respectively probably Bowie's most beloved track).

Curiously, back to U2, no doubt Lanois and Eno had a ton of creative input throughout, but neither gets co-writing credit until "No Line on the Horizon," for which they are credited on the majority of tracks. Maybe the band knew it wouldn't really sell, lol.

I am def one of this board's bigger Eno fans (there are a lot of us ofc), but the idea that he deserves co-billing on RIL just really rubs me the wrong way and imo illustrates a lot of the problems the (rest of the) band had w/him, i.e. he didn't take their contributions seriously, etc

the Bryne/Eno co-billing makes much more sense to me

I mean, yeah, there are political reasons why the band wouldn't have awarded him credit. They would've broken up then.

A Talking Heads bio commissioned by Musician was published just after the release of Little Creatures, which I checked out of the public library in the early '90s. All the co-writing tensions, intraband tensions -- they came up in the book, so it's not like these things weren't known.

Curiously, back to U2, no doubt Lanois and Eno had a ton of creative input throughout, but neither gets co-writing credit until "No Line on the Horizon," for which they are credited on the majority of tracks. Maybe the band knew it wouldn't really sell, lol.

We addressed this on another thread recently… Bono said something like, “We’re giving you guys points on the album, that should be enough for you. We don’t share writing credits.”

It's worth noting that Eno didn't produce the whole of Zooropa - iirc it's just six of the ten sogns (and plays the keyboard part on a seventh, Dirty Day).

songs

Ah, here it is (I realized it’s in a Book I Read, as the man says):

On All That You Can’t Leave Behind Brian Eno and Dan asked Bono for songwriting credits because they came up with a lot of the music. Bono said, “No. We hire you guys because of what you bring to the table. We pay you a million to produce it and you get half a point. We could hire anyone, but we like what you do.”

Eno played keyboards on most of Zooropa

And on every U2 album he co-produced. That's him doing the synth fills on "With or Without You."

The strangest thing for me is that he's absent - production or otherwise - from Zoo Station, The Fly and Acrobat, the three Baby songs with that go furthest with the industrial timbre he helped encourage.

In light of the arguments I've seen in the wake of Robbie Robertson's death, I really get the feeling that what technically determines songwriting credits doesn't line up well with how listeners (understandably) think they should be defined. I'm tempted to say the differences are reflective of the difference in how you define a song vs a record.

The moral: credit everybody.

There's a scene in the Dixie Chicks documentary with Chad Smith, where he's hanging in the studio after a take while one of the Chicks is discussing how the songwriting should be credited, and Smith shrugs and says that in the Chili Peppers they just credit everything to the band. Iirc same with U2, REM, Coldplay, Radiohead ... buncha bands, even if we loosely know who specifically wrote what. That's how you keep your band happy.

Just as a note, too, Eno’s contributions to Wah Wah were far less substantial that the contributions of his protege Markus Dravs, if that album’s credits are any indication

xp That's why kept UB40 the same eight-piece for three decades.

what*

Cited in the wiki:

Dravs generally worked on the material alone, improvising at the studio console, as James and Eno were busy recording Laid, but as Laid neared completion, the band and Eno spent more time in the "wild" studio where Wah Wah was being edited, where they worked long days, but there was "always enough going on to prevent any loss of momentum," and "things happened very quickly." Eno completed his mixes for the jams in a single afternoon, where he spent time trying to "get a little of each jam onto DAT because there was so much new work flying around that it was hard to remember it all." He had made 55 mixes that day and never mixed anything twice, not expecting to use these mixes for the final album, but he decided that this fast, impulsive way of working was "right in the spirit of the performances," and that the results, as he described them, "often make a cinematic, impressionistic counterpoint to the elaborate post-industrial drama of Markus' mixes."He commented that "they set each other off well: the combination feels like being at the edge of somewhere - where industry merges with landscape, metal with space, corrupted machinery with unsettled weather patterns, data-noise with insect chatter."

the Once in a lifetime development is made clear if you hear the demo/jam on the 2005 reissue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJx2x0p1U-M

xps IIRC The Clash adopted the same practice beginning with Sandinista!, but I know Paul was originally motivated to write when he noticed Joe and Mick were getting more money as the primary composers.

so was George Harrison, which Paul still teases him about.

It's funny thinking that some of my favorite songs may not have happened if the composer wasn't envious of royalties, but then you have situations like the Replacements where Chris Mars tried writing for similar reasons and was completely shut out by Paul, prompting him to quit the band.

I’ve come to regard Dravs as something of a genius in light of his work on Wolf Alice’s Blue Weekend. I’m convinced he’s a huge ABBA fan.

situations like the Replacements where Chris Mars tried writing for similar reasons and was completely shut out by Paul, prompting him to quit the band.

I don't like the Replacements and have never heard the album in question, but the fact that Chris Mars's solo album was called 75% Less Fat! makes me laugh to this day.

The strangest thing for me is that he's absent - production or otherwise - from Zoo Station, The Fly and Acrobat, the three Baby songs with that go furthest with the industrial timbre he helped encourage.

wasn't the process with achtung baby that lanois was the main producer and eno would just check in on the sessions every few weeks and then give feedback and work with them for a bit on the tracks he wasn't as happy with? so i think that makes some sense given that process, if he was less involved with the sonically bolder tracks

The moral: credit everybody...That's how you keep your band happy.

The problem with that is when someone like Ritchie Blackmore wonders why the other members of Deep Purple are getting 80% of the payment for riffs that he wrote. Or the members of Genesis, though they also split songwriting royalties five ways, seeing everyone assume that Gabriel was the main songwriter. Pere Ubu also got into copyright quicksand by crediting all songs to everyone.

Even with Talking Heads, when they tried to assign share splits of the songs on Remain in Light, everyone had a different percentage in mind when weighing all their contributions. And there are already performance royalties and band income as recompense for those roles (at least, in the 80s, these were still significant amounts).

Songwriting is its own craft, as much as production, and I don't see anyone saying that everyone in the studio should be credited with producing a record. And songwriters should not be compelled to give up their share splits to band members anymore than they should have to sell their publishing to their record company. I do agree that in many, maybe most cases, it's helpful for band diplomacy, but it's not a panacea.

The problem with that is when someone like Ritchie Blackmore wonders why the other members of Deep Purple are getting 80% of the payment for riffs that he wrote.

I remember an opposite situation mentioned in that hilarious Police interview where Copeland asks Summers how he felt about Sting getting ALL of the money from Puff Daddy when he only sampled the guitar riff that Andy himself invented, not Sting. It only proves your point through - sometimes contributions are painfully NOT equal, and it's easy to say U2 or R.E.M. had that arrangement when it's possible they all contributed in a way that could only make it seem like a group composition. (IIRC a lot of U2's songs came out of group jams, as heard on the bootlegged Achtung Baby "demos." A big difference compared to one band member taping a home demo and having the chords, melody, hook, and main lyrics laid down as a solo recording.)

my impression of r.e.m.'s process is that all of them were bringing songs to the table and making significant contributions to the arrangements for others' tracks, so it all felt fair enough in the end even if contributions weren't always equal for each track - there's various tracks that they've talked about as being primarily written by just one or two members for instance.

but i get why there'd be bitterness in cases where significant contributions don't get a credit, or bands where one person is just dictating everything to the rest and sharing the credits regardless.

wasn't the process with achtung baby that lanois was the main producer and eno would just check in on the sessions every few weeks and then give feedback and work with them for a bit on the tracks he wasn't as happy with? so i think that makes some sense given that process, if he was less involved with the sonically bolder tracks

― ufo,

yep!

wasn't the process with achtung baby that lanois was the main producer and eno would just check in on the sessions every few weeks and then give feedback and work with them for a bit on the tracks he wasn't as happy with? so i think that makes some sense given that process, if he was less involved with the sonically bolder tracks

Yeah that's basically it as far as I can tell. But then it's odd he's also absent from, say, Daddy's Gonna Pay on Zooropa which was worked on differently.

I feel there's a temptation - even I'm not wholly immune - to link Eno with the 'furthest out' stuff from any U2 session, erroneously or not (but understandably so given Passengers was around the corner).

I think Eno, with his Rick Rubin hat on, can still make a big impact without contributing directly, just by telling the band when something is finished/good. A smart, perceptive sounding board. There are lots of tales of him getting frustrated with constant fussing around. Famously, just as with "Once in a Lifetime," he came close to giving up on "Where the Streets Have No Name." Anyway, just like with, say, "Low," where he is present but not the producer, he plays a big role, no matter what the credits say.

This has been posted before, but he's relatively rare footage of him at work (with James):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68S9w1gpwCM

This is a really good account of the same sessions, showing what Eno brings to the table as a collaborator, even if the bulk of the work is seemingly done:

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/brian-eno-recording-james-know-what-here

By the time work on the track moved to Hook End Studios in July 1998, the loop, drums and most of Kulas' backing vocals were finished and down to analogue 2‑inch tape. The July session was the first of two three‑week stints working with producer Brian Eno (the second was in September 1998) who asserted his influence on the track immediately, as Baynton‑Power explains: "Brian set himself up at Hook End with his Yamaha DX7, his EMS Synthi VCS3, and a rack of effects units that he likes. At that point, 'I Know What I'm Here For' sounded pretty much like a conventional James track — guitar‑driven like 'Destiny Calling'. The original guide vocal at that tempo was a bit slow‑moving, so the first thing Eno did was speed up the tape by about 12 percent! The pitch went up by a tone, but we got away with it. Eno said he thought the rest of the track was all right, but the vocals were too slow. I have to admit that when he first did it I thought it sounded a bit ridiculous, because I was so used to hearing it at 103bpm, but now it was kicking around at 115 or 116bpm. But in fact, that proved to be the key moment. The whole track happened fairly quickly after that. Once the bass had gone down on tape I saw what Eno was getting at by speeding it all up."

As this quote of Baynton‑Power's indicates, the next Eno‑driven addition was a new, prominent bass line played on his DX7 synth through a miked‑up amp to Hook End's Studer A800 two‑inch, replacing the previous guide bass recorded at Ridge Farm. Baynton‑Power: "Mark and Brian did a live take to two‑inch with Mark playing the bass notes on the DX7 and Brian applying the mod wheel. That was great to watch, far more exciting than watching someone moving stuff around on a computer screen. You can hear it in the vibe of the take. Brian hates sequencers; he just does everything hands‑on. When he creates a sound, too, he'll get it exactly how he wants it, and record it with the effects he wants already on it. With everything you've got in studios these days, it's so easy to postpone your decision until a later stage, but Brian just bangs it onto tape and it's finished. It saves a lot of time later. Everyone who heard the track later thought the bass was an analogue synth, but the DX7's the only keyboard Brian uses. I think he said that he wasn't very well once and couldn't go out, so he got right inside it and learnt how to use it properly. He's probably the best DX7 man on the planet; he swears by them."

I remember an opposite situation mentioned in that hilarious Police interview where Copeland asks Summers how he felt about Sting getting ALL of the money from Puff Daddy when he only sampled the guitar riff that Andy himself invented, not Sting.

well, i mean, clyde stubblefield and "funky drummer", right?

It's funny thinking that some of my favorite songs may not have happened if the composer wasn't envious of royalties, but then you have situations like the Replacements where Chris Mars tried writing for similar reasons and was completely shut out by Paul, prompting him to quit the band.

or, perhaps most infamously, the creedence situation. on the other hand a similar situation is what led to the walker brothers' "nite flights", so...

my favorite story about how a band determined royalties was something dave stewart said about egg... something along the lines that the songs were credited to the whole band - dirk campbell because he wrote the songs, dave stewart because he played the solos, and clive brooks because he carried the equipment on and offstage... seems as equitable as anything to me!

I think Eno, with his Rick Rubin hat on, can still make a big impact without contributing directly, just by telling the band when something is finished/good. A smart, perceptive sounding board.

the image of him fucking around with his boutique tarot cards definitely gives me a "rick rubin hat on" vibe, haha

Bet those boutique tarot cards smell nice.

Okay, I haven't watched the video in Josh's post. But reading that Sound On Sound quote, to my mind, is a description of producer doing a producer's job. I'll define a that job to mean "to help influence the sound of the record in a way that pleases whoever hired them." If I were the band's manager, I'd say "thanks, here's your pay check". Maybe that pay check includes points or whatever other financial agreement decided before going into the studio, but co-write credit seems, I dunno, aggressive?

Did Talking Heads have a manager, btw? I seem to recall no.

That's generally true, but Eno did actually co-write those RIL tunes. No one disputes this. How much credit (and $) he deserved is the rub.

No one disputes this.

Byrne said something like “he wasn’t really ‘writing’ the stuff” in the Sand in the Vaseline liner notes… did he change his tune?

He jammed with them. I bet he'd say the same about Jerry, Chris, and Tina.

I’m agnostic on the whole thing but I do think it is somewhat strange for Eno to work with them on two albums and then demand credit on the third, even if he did more creative “work”. It’s a band, etc.

Listening to the two Bandsplains, I was struck, more than usual, by all the different parties claiming credit for even the simplest of things, like album titles or inspiration sources.

He didn't jam with them on the previous two albums. Also, My Life in the Bush of Ghosts, a full collaboration with Byrne, happened before RIL. Eno must have felt empowered.

xpost

Only one producer has ever toiled hard enough on an album to warrant his name on the cover – and that producer is Andy Warhol!

Did Talking Heads have a manager, btw? I seem to recall no.

No Talking Just Head was on Radioactive.

As reported, Chris and Tina were constantly griping about Byrne about their perceived lack of credit (legal or otherwise). I get the sense that Byrne, for his part, never really thought about them much at all, at least not after the early days, when he wanted to replace Tina, which must have been extra maddening, maybe even more so later when Busta "Cherry" Jones was brought on as another bassist live. Before "Remain in Light" the band was tenuous. Chris and Tina were thinking of quitting, while Eno and Byrne had done "Bush of Ghosts." Between that collaboration and seeing them work in the studio before that, Eno probably always saw Byrne as the band's leader. He also reportedly did not really get along with the rest of the group, and was supposedly reluctant to jump back into the pool with everyone for "Remain in Light."

As for shared billing, like I posted, I don't really trust anyone in this camp with the truth at this point, given they all have different accounts of even simple things. But Eno has always liked making music out of spontaneity, chaos, and jamming, from "Here Come the Warm Jets" on. Part of that was probably philosophical, but part was for sure ego. If someone brings a completed song in to the studio, you as a professed non-musician might have trouble finding a way in. But jamming levels the playing field a little, and certainly affords you a greater creative role.

Even the non-musician shit is Eno-trolling going back decades. He plays keyboards, guitar, and other instruments just fine.

Yeah, fine for what he does, but he's not about chords, keys, etc. He can make noises as needed to suit his goals, but you're not going to find him sitting with a band and contributing much more than squelching.

See, I don't know. He's written songs for himself and co-written with others for decades.

He understands instruments pretty well, but his actual technical abilities are pretty rudimentary. Like, here he is with his brother (who *can* play) live last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EJQfFrFb8I

Roger is doing most of the stuff, while Brian (shadowed by Peter Chilvers, I think, who can play) as far as I can tell kind of does one note plinking along. Which can still be effective! Like the piano solo in "Just Like Heaven."

I think the Eno instrumental ethos is not that different from, I dunno, Half Japanese or something. That is, not everyone can play "Stairway to Heaven" or whatever, but anyone can play guitar, or keyboard, or bass, or drums, etc. Once you redefine what's "right," it's hard to be wrong.

Yeah, fine for what he does, but he's not about chords, keys, etc.

Nonsense, he can play conventionally perfect well he just either prefers not to or likes to pretend he can't, something like the piano on "Becalmed", it's not Keith Emerson, but it sounds competent enough to me. "Slow Water", that's another one that definitely chords, keys etc.

It's totally lovely, but there's really not much to "Becalmed." If that's the standard - and it's totally cool if it is, I wouldn't change a note - then sure, he can "play." But as I understand it it's a pretty rudimentary chord progression. Again, not that it matters! Eno has made a career of it not mattering. I believe "The Big Ship" and Taylor Swift's "Love Story" use the same simple progression, and they both work because of it.

And he does know chords. Bowie, Bono, etc have all famously explained how he writes them on the blackboard and with a pointer instructs the band where to change.

Well, rudimentary chord progressions were big in a lot of the music Eno was listening to... Kraftwerk, Cluster, Neu/La Dusseldorf/Rother, and that's just the Germans!

No disagreeing at all. I don't think the argument is that he is somehow totally inept, just that he's not proficient in a traditional way. And it's not his purpose/job to do so, either.

xpost Pretty sure he "conducts" this way not with chords but with sections. A part, then B part, then C part, then A part, etc. But I'm happy to be proven wrong if you can dig up a quote.

I remember an opposite situation mentioned in that hilarious Police interview where Copeland asks Summers how he felt about Sting getting ALL of the money from Puff Daddy when he only sampled the guitar riff that Andy himself invented, not Sting.

going way back here but the song also prominently features the "every breath you take" melody, composed by sting

Who is getting the checks for Trick Daddy's "Sugar (Gimme Some)"?

byrne is the only writer credited for the sample

Fwiw – all three "Psycho Killer" songwriters (Byrne, Frantz & Weymouth) are credited on Selena Gomez's "Bad Liar"

Speaking of contributions to Remain in Light, I know he's only on a handful of songs but I feel like Adrian Belew has a pretty big impact for a guy who dropped by the studio for one day. But I guess it worked out OK for him, given that he became part of the touring band and is still touring on the album with Jerry Harrison.

He also has a co-write credit on "Genius of Love!"

What did Bandsplain say about that? He recorded a bunch of guitar tracks for the TTC album but had to tour with Zappa, and they said they would wait for him to get back to continue recording. When he finally got back to the studio, it was empty except for a cassette of the album that was left for him. I think most of his guitar was removed?

Belew's solo on "Born Under Punches" is all time and defines the song imo

He recorded a bunch of guitar tracks for the TTC album but had to tour with Zappa, and they said they would wait for him to get back to continue recording. When he finally got back to the studio, it was empty except for a cassette of the album that was left for him. I think most of his guitar was removed?

He was well done with Zappa by that point, the story as reported (and posted on wiki) is pretty rich, given the discussion in this thread:

Unfortunately, Belew's experience with Tom Tom Club was less harmonious than his previous work with Talking Heads. Tom Tom Club's recording engineer, Steven Stanley, was vocal about his dislike of distorted guitar and erased the majority of Belew's solos during the mixing sessions. Worse was to follow when Belew queried Weymouth about songwriting credits, having co-written several of the album's songs in addition to his playing. He was apparently "ghosted", with Weymouth no longer returning his phone calls. Belew did not play live with Tom Tom Club or contribute to any further sessions. Recalling the situation when interviewed twenty years later, he claimed that he had opted to pursue other work rather than involve himself in legal or personal struggles with Weymouth and Frantz, and that he had chosen not to let it bother him, as several other, more promising projects were happening for him at the same time.

xp ditto Great Curve

So much Drama in the TTC

I still want to know if the Born Under Punches solo was really 'played,' since it could just as easily be a bunch of randomized fragments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO7N2tFb0X8

Well, they might've learned to play it.

true, but any excuse to post Rome 1980 videos is a good one

Rome 1980 is my favourite performance of The Great Curve.

never heard that Belew/TTC story. hilarious that as leaders of their own band Chris & Tina did the same things they criticized Byrne for doing in TH

"I learned it by watching you!"

they must have worked it out at some point because belew is a credited co-writer on 6 of the 8 tracks on the album

including (as mentioned above) the one track that is probably still generating checks 40 years later

https://i.postimg.cc/pXRXYJVT/F5xxog8-Ww-AAe-FHj.jpg

that is a GREAT doll of Jerry.

lol

or are they recreating the Little Creatures sleeve.

never heard that Belew/TTC story. hilarious that as leaders of their own band Chris & Tina did the same things they criticized Byrne for doing in TH

Yeah the Bandsplain gloss on it was "Hurt people hurt people."

Qu'est-ce que c'est?

Chris, go talk to your analyst; isn't that they're paid for?

they must have worked it out at some point because belew is a credited co-writer on 6 of the 8 tracks on the album

(Every issue from 1981 to RSD 2023 has the same 1981 “all songs written by The Tom Tom Club” credit and “WE ARE THE MEMBERS OF THE TOM TOM CLUB” Rizzi list that includes Belew, except for a 2009 compilation which adds the second album plus nine bonus tracks and remixes. That has song-by-song writing credits for six of the eight, only specifying Belew on Genius. He does have a credit on the REMIX of Lorelei - group-credited in album version - and “Elephant” - L’Elefante credited to Tina alone - plus b-sides Spooks and Yella. If you’re looking at ASCAP database or w/e, is there an update log?)

I just looked up Tom Tom Club in the ASCAP database. It mostly aligns with the Wikipedia page for the S/T. Didn’t check the update log

NYTimes report on that Q&A, and apparently they watched the film with the audience, which was very responsive:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/movies/talking-heads-stop-making-sense-spike-lee.html

https://media.pitchfork.com/photos/5e9e17bf05b8ec0008212215/master/pass/More%20Songs%20About%20Buildings%20and%20Food_Talking%20Heads.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGq6qIcSaZg

is Spike pished

Tina looks the most awkward. I mean, Byrne and Chris actually shared a smile at one point!

yeah everyone else seems in decent spirits except tina

I forgot, Tina was in a really bad car accident last year - I wonder if she's still physically recovering or ailing?

that could well be the case perhaps

The Bandsplain convo got me to revisit the catalog, and at this stage in life, I've realized that I don't really care about the first or last phase of this band, just the core expanded lineup years. And maybe only as a live band? Another watchthrough of Rome 1980 reminded me that if Stop Making Sense didn't exist, Rome 1980 could easily be considered one of the best concert films of all time. With the chronology Yasi provided, learning that the 1980 expanded band had only been playing together for a few months is just crazy-- they already had such sense of structure and momentum reworking the songs, giving the songs arcs and space for soloing, and already had such rapport for giving each other room to play. The band doubled in size, but the sound is so lean and precise.

Did they ever release a proper video of the Rome show? It’s such an incredible performance but the videos YT are a bit muddy sounding.
The Name Of This Band captures their sound from 80-81 with the expanded line up. Maybe that’s the best sounding document from that era. I prefer it vs SMS.

Another watchthrough of Rome 1980 reminded me that if Stop Making Sense didn't exist, Rome 1980 could easily be considered one of the best concert films of all time.

Yep. I never listen to SMS but I do The Name of This Band....

Yeah the 1980-81 touring band is by far my favourite, I watch SMS as a film but I don't listen to the album.

Did Talking Heads have a manager, btw? I seem to recall no.

R.I.P. Gary Kurfirst longtime manager of Talking Heads (and maybe Ramones too)

I've puzzled over this band my whole adult life, specifically their "eight big ones", the songs so indelibly danceable and irresistible: "Cities", "Life During Wartime", "Animals", "Burning Down The House", and the A-side of "Remain In Light". They're all of them impossible not-to-dance to, and yet are all so distinct in tempo and design. Chris is always doing the same thing basically, and Tina is always doing something weird and unique. "Born Under Punches" has the weirdest bassline of all time-- constructed in studio by splicing together different takes from different bassists into a single loop, iirc? and yet in the live setting, Tina plays it so rock steady. A pointillist offbeat moment, a weird portamento, a hilariously uncool boxy open string, then the rumbling insistence, it's so weird and only could've been made the way it was made. Best bassline.

The thing that always strikes me when I listen to this band, especially the live performances, is how from moment-to-moment, the music is simultaneously so satisfying in its density and cacophony, and unsatisfying in its featurelessness as a "song", that Byrne's wild shouts and croaks aren't far off from, like, no wave or punk, he's adjacent to John Lydon more than anyone, really. And it's that aspect that makes the music so addictive, being satisfied with groove and density and noise and left "wanting more" in terms of what song is actually there, which really isn't much. Not a criticism! just saying that if the songs were any meatier, that they'd be more satisfying, and thus less interesting.

Belew said recently that he makes more money from Genius of Love than anything else he's ever done.

thanks to sampling

xxp That's very well put, FGTI. It captures the feeling I've had ever since I first encountered them, which was their first "SNL" appearance. My 13-year-old self had no idea what to make of them, but they were fascinating.

I've realized that I don't really care about the first or last phase of this band, just the core expanded lineup years.

I feel this. I think the first two albums hold perfectly well, and I have a big soft spot for Little Creatures, but basically the Fear of Music-Remain in Light-Speaking in Tongues run, and accompanying live performances, that's the heart of the whole project. And to what FGTI said, the early and later albums are much more conventional in their presentation of songs-as-songs. The middle era is when they stretch out, space out, groove out. Nothing else like it.

I consider "More Songs" to be hugely underrated, me, but aside from that, yeah

"Thank You for Sending Me an Angel" is an absolute banger.

I love the first two albums (and the third); if anything I think RIL is somewhat overrated in comparison, but I get why ppl are so into it.

Same here.

Although "conventional songs as songs" doesn't quite describe stuff like "Don't Worry About The Government" imo. Everything about the lyrics and the minimalist musical arrangements is completely unlike any other band of that era, save maybe Sparks. They weren't conventional enough for my roommates in 1977 who liked country rock or Led Zep anyway, they hated Talking Heads.

I find I almost never listen to 70s Talking Heads. That's one thing they have in common with the Clash.

1980-84 are definitely my favourite years but I do like Little Creatures and Naked quite a bit.

"Born Under Punches" has the weirdest bassline of all time-- constructed in studio by splicing together different takes from different bassists into a single loop, iirc? and yet in the live setting, Tina plays it so rock steady.

Are there any live takes of this song featuring only Tina? My ears are not good enough to discern what she is doing vs. the other guy, tough in, say, "Rome" she seems pretty active and relatively high in the mix.

It’s just Tina on “The Name Of This Band”, I think?

Don't think so, I think Busta "Cherry" Jones is also there.

"More Songs ... " is the album I've settled on as my favorite the most. For some reason, "RiL" and "Fear of Music" never took that spot for me, at least not for long, despite how much I love them both (and the band, especially the Eno-era, in general). Maybe number two (and sometimes one?) for me is "Speaking in Tongues," though I've always had a thing for "Naked" akin to my love of the Replacements "Don't Tell a Soul."

(Wow, Jones plays on "Here Come the Warm Jets"!)

More Songs... not only sounds like nothing else, it's like a canonical example of a successful second album – expanding the aesthetic of an (excellent) debut, like you can hear the band's talent blossoming out of its rough, embryonic form. (That said, I think "Stay Hungry" & "River" take it down a few notches from perfection.)

Actually the long groove in the middle of "Stay Hungry" rules (listening to it now)

The groove break and play-out in "Stay Hungry" might be my all-time favorite Talking Heads moment. Incredible to think the song is well under three minutes long!

Yeah I wish it, like, didn't fade out!

This is the best rhythm guitar album I can think of (with apologies to the Feelies et al.)

xxxp crazy talk, those are both great

idk I like everything except Naked really

and even some of that

I mean, any album with "(Nothing But) Flowers" on it is OK in my book. (I presume) Marr's playing on that is incredible.

Frantz posted a photo of them having lunch with A24 outside around the Bowery this afternoon. You got to hand it to A24, they made the stipulation that if they were going to distribute and promote this film, the band had to be an active help too, and it's pretty amazing to see them socializing together, albeit in a professional context. Could be just this one time, but that's still something.

Don't think so, I think Busta "Cherry" Jones is also there.

I think it must be Tina on The Name Of This Band… (on Born Under Punches), she plays the same part (visibly) on the Rome video, and the performance is identical

I consider "More Songs" to be hugely underrated, me, but aside from that, yeah

― my best wishes to all (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, September 13, 2023 2:45 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

"Thank You for Sending Me an Angel" is an absolute banger.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, September 13, 2023

For a while this was the canonical pick: the only 5-star album in the Big Orange SPIN book.

I think it must be Tina on The Name Of This Band… (on Born Under Punches), she plays the same part (visibly) on the Rome video, and the performance is identical

Yeah, but Busta is also playing bass in the video, right? So what's he doing?

He's playing what I would call "lead bass" — adding fills, adding noise, sort of a counterpart to Belew. Weymouth holds the groove down, Jones goes off.

i think busta's playing the slap bass bit that's more prominent in the album mix, while tina plays the repeated part that's totally buried in the album mix but more prominent in live versions

The idea of two bass players in a rock band astonished me when I learned about it in that Musician bio all those years ago.

Delta 5 were first I think? see also Dos and Hugo Largo, I am a huge fan of this sound

So many bands with more than one bass but rarely play such tightly interlocking parts as the touring TH, instead they just do the 'you play low down, I'll play high up' thing.

see also Dos and Hugo Largo, I am a huge fan of this sound

!!!!

is this the SPIN book mentioned?

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61L5e4ijmsL._SL1000_.jpg

yep!

Which I wish wasn't so expensive second hand.

Bands with two bassists top of my mind:

Pinback
Molotov
Flipper
Dirtbombs
Do Make Say Think
GYBE
Tortoise
Magma
Ornette Coleman on the Free Jazz album

Cop Shoot Cop
Ned's Atomic Dustbin

90s King Crimson had two Chapman stick players

Depending on how loose you are, you could include bands like the Cure that enlist a lot of six string bass.

Ornette's live band from 2003 to whenever he stopped performing live was a quartet with two upright bassists, one plucking low and one bowing high. I interviewed the high player once. He said he had asked Ornette if, given the range he wanted him to play in, it wouldn't be better to have a cellist and Ornette said no, he wanted it to sound like the guy was straining for the notes. At one gig I saw, they had three bassists — a third guy was playing electric.

Yeah when I saw Ornette it was 3 basses and Denardo - from memory it was 1 x upright, 1 x electric and a piccolo bass

Girls Against Boys has two bassists, right?

pretty sure The Fall did during some point.

Getting back to TH, it’s pretty remarkable how drastically low in the mix the bass is, whoever is playing it, on the studio version of “Punches.” I’ll never forget the first time I heard that track, it sounded like nothing I’d ever heard before. The live versions that are so bass heavy are undeniable, and if forced to choose I do prefer those, but the groove of the studio version, with the guitar and keyboard riffs more foregrounded, is one of the most singular sounds they ever hit on. Radical but inspired choice to mix it like that.

the studio version still has the other bass line in the foreground, it's just mixed differently in the live versions

The studio version has that slap bass; dunno if Tina or Busta Jones plays it.

Found this Tina quote, apparently from an old interview with Bass Player:

Were David and Brian responsible for the cut-and-paste approach to bass on Remain in Light, where multiple bass tracks were recorded and then pieced together during mixdown?

Tina: “Yes, those lines were created by Eno, purely with the studio. Both Brian and David were constantly playing bass during those sessions, and I encouraged it. But whenever I would show up to the studio in the morning, before the two of them had arrived, the engineer would take me aside and say, “Look, this is really bothering me. These guys keep missing beats.” So he’d have me replay what they had recorded the night before.”

So once again, ironically similar to what people said about replacing *her* parts early on.

So many egos involved, so many different accounts of the same events ...

Eno and Byrne do get bass credit on RIL too.

The bassline on “Born Under Punches” (studio) is even weirder than the already-weird line Tina plays (live). Tina hits the downbeat solidly every four bar phrase, but in studio, it kinda tumbles down over the phrase and misses the downbeat. (Sorry to keep obsessing over this bassline, I literally transcribed it at one point bc I found it so fascinating)

You should try figuring out where the "one" is in "Once in a Lifetime."

"once in a lifetime" doesn't really come across as ambiguous to me, there's the same groove the whole way through but the chorus starts on the 'one-and', very likely because eno wrote the chorus melody and he'd somehow ended up with a different understanding of the groove

so i guess the chorus is a bit more ambiguous about where the 'one' is but the rest isn't

I think it may depend on which instruments you are tracking, and where you start counting. Drum loop is weeeird.

Musicians I know that have tried covering it faithfully have struggled, like doing "Black Dog."

the kick and the start of the bassline are both on the one, and the snare is on the two and the four (as well as a few other places). the drums aren't really that weird. the bass puts a lot of emphasis on the first two eighth notes, and sometimes there's a kick on that second eighth note too, which is what causes a bit of an ambiguous feel when most of the chorus elements are heavily syncopated and start on that second eighth note. eno did re-record the bassline to remove the initial bass notes in some bars to make it more ambiguous (and then weymouth had to re-record that) but that doesn't really do much on its own.

the drum accents and crashes are in pretty unpredictable places as well.

yeah that's the actual weird part about the drums, i have no idea how frantz came up with that. the basic groove is straight-forward but all the tom hits and crashes are in very weird places

“Lifetime” is deceptively simple, you don’t notice that there’s something weird going on until you try and cover it. There’s just an added 2/4 bar at the end of every verse and chorus: “how did I / get here? Letting the / days go by”. But Tina stays locked, so the choruses effectively reposition her bass line. It’s very cool! Can’t remember where I read either David or Brian enthusing about that little innovation but I’m sure I did

And yeah Frantz is just the best drummer imaginable

oh that's super cool xp

'deceptively simple' is frantz's whole deal, he's not a very flashy player and seems to just keep a steady groove but then all the accents he adds in are completely bonkers when you actually pay attention

Also he’s always smiling!!!!

I don't think that much of his playing is nearly as weird or interesting as some of those grooves on "Remain in Light," and I think that's because his simple playing was largely chopped up and spit out of the Eno machine. That's not a bad thing, it's right for the band and helps keep some pretty strange song structures together. Staying out of the way is an underrated skill for any player. Ask the Ramones, who never had a drummer quite like Tommy, and that wasn't because he was particularly *good*, just perfect for the band.

Frantz also drummed on Robert Palmer's "Looking for Clues" and I can tell it's him within seconds.

I've been a big fan of them since I was a child, but Frantz is easily my least favorite part of the band and I do not buy the hidden complexity argument regarding his drumming

lol according to wiki Franz is credited on "Looking for Clues" with "bass drum."

Don't know where this Robert Palmer quote comes from, exactly, but: "I'd been experimenting with a prototype sequencer, a cheap yellow and plastic effort called a Wasp and Spider. The rhythm has an almost academic syncopated figure and Chris Frantz from Talking Heads plays the foot drum. I must have found it pretty easy to write because there are an awful lot of verses."

from Addictions, Vol. 1

https://www.synthfind.com/category/edp/spider/

The Wasp was a very cheap, weird little synth (infamously the sound of Whitehouse!), they weigh like nothing, a band I played with used one for some overdubs and its like a kid's toy

I feel like from 1980 onwards Frantz was the straight-up-the-middle timekeeper from whom the other players could hang behind, and make all their individual sections swing so well.

The push and pull between the rest of the rhythm section and his simple style is what makes TH funky and taut at the same time, if he had been a more consciously swinging drummer the band may have been a lot more formulaically 'funky' and maybe much less interesting.

I've always liked how 'Stop Making Sense' progresses in a really fun way (chronology aside) at the start, quite martial and uptight, but by the time the other players appear, looser and looser. Like a slow, musical zooming out.

Speaking of Talking Heads, credits and Eno, anyone else notice that Eno is credited as "assistant engineer" (along with a half-dozen other engineers) on "The Name of This Band is Talking Heads"? I wonder what he had to do with it. I think at least some versions of "Stop Making Sense" have some tweaks and edits and clean-ups, maybe even some overdubbing. I wonder if "Name" does, too?

i'll never remember where i saw it, but i remember reading an interview or quote somewhere where Byrne mentioned doing overdubs to fix vocal flubs on "Name". every version of SMS is filled with edits and studio overdubs, i'm sure they didnt have reservations about tweaking stuff on "Name", probably not the extent of SMS, but still

I knew that about SMS but the things on Name are at least partly radio broadcasts, I doubt those were in multi-track. I'd be surprised if there were any actual overdubs

Eno might have gone out on the road with them and had something to do with the live sound on the later recordings (shades of David Briggs going out on Neil Young tours)?

The bandspalin on the Talking Heads mentions Eno not wanting to tour so I doubt it.

I do remember reading once that Eno did the live sound for some shows in that period. Some of the 1980 stuff on Name is from New Jersey and NYC, and if they were planning to record with a live album in mind, it wouldn't have involved him going on tour with them.

The expanded CD version actually draws from nine different shows. Assuming Eno was on hand for one of them, I wonder what he did, since Eno is not that knowledgable about the nuts and bolts of engineering, which is why he always pairs himself with someone highly capable on the tech side of things. Conspicuously he's listed in the credits as an *assistant* engineer, and I doubt he would be that useful in a mobile recording scenario.

BTW, a lot of great shows at the Capitol Theatre were captured on video, including legendary sets by Springsteen and the Clash. While the 1979 Talking Heads set doesn't seem to be posted anywhere, a 1980 set is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFvgWguaC9g

I think the Psychedelic Furs opened.

that is fucking awesome, thanks!!

Oh, and btw, you get an *awesome* view of what both bassists are up to during "Born Under Punches"!

Whoa, that is fascinating, on "Born Under Punches": Tina skips a beat at 49:34, gets a quarter-note ahead. The next choral entry, it's staggered because some people followed Tina and others did not. Busta and David look over to Tina and "get low" to seemingly get her attention and hopefully make the correction. It doesn't work. There's 45 seconds of offset messiness. Then Busta takes a bass solo, one that is super aggressively simple, playing off Tina's new groove to effectively corral the entire ensemble. Everyone follows and the song ends perfectly.

Nope, my mistake, Tina picks up on it and makes the correction. Well done Busta

the section where they're all out of sync for a bit is quite disorienting in a cool way and is the sort of thing they could have based a whole song around as a deliberate trick

Out of sync, but still totally in the pocket!

just multiple pockets

Loads of killer footage of the original quartet just prior to the expanded live group in this South Bank Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5EzLDD1D_Q

I wonder if the unnamed "Eagles/Ronstadt-style" song on Fear of Music described by Frantz in that above doc was "Heaven", since it's a propulsive yet melodic ballad.

Yeeesh, Jerry clavinet and David guitar just locked as they are on "Life During Wartime", beautiful

https://pitchfork.com/features/interview/talking-heads-reunion-2023-stop-making-sense/

New Pitchfork interview with Talking Heads members (or has this been discussed on another thread)

https://www.npr.org/2023/09/22/1200623785/talking-heads-stop-making-sense-interview

they're doing lots of interviews and they've all been pretty interesting. certainly better than that initial toronto q&a.

the interviews are _really_ interesting, the way they complement each other. i think a lot about what david byrne said about the CBGBs scene in "how music works", which harrison kind of recapitulates... the idea of the affordability being what brought people together. but harrison also talks about "a homogenous unit of creative people" and that's something i hadn't thought about, in regards to the CBGBs scene.

but this idea of _something is happening_ in a time and place... well, i had that sense with usenet, and it was true, something _was_ happening, it just wasn't... i don't know. what it turned into is pretty awful. and even at the time... the early days of ilx are valuable in that they _survive_ and usenet, in a meaningful, readable form, doesn't, really.

portland now... portland isn't what i'd call "affordable" but for different reasons, there's this same sense of... a certain sort of people all congregate here. i see these stickers around town that say "NEW PORTLAND SUCKS" and yeah it's expensive and gentrified. the thing that those stickers miss out on though is that new portland is _incredibly fucking queer_. i don't know. maybe it's more weimar. i've heard the only other place nearly as trans as us is right now, funnily enough, berlin, where it all started...

and people here are creative because we're desperate, what the fuck else can we do? i work a "straight" job, but most of us don't. everything we do are these one-person projects... trying to get shit together, nothing ever really seems to happen, or it happens for two weeks and then everything falls apart again. we're all kind of fucked up. byrne can write a song like "life during wartime" and perfectly capture the essence of it, but there must have been more going on in 1970s new york because he has plenty of other songs, about other things. here in portland, we're less here because we're looking for something, it's more often a matter of what we're trying to escape... i don't know. patti smith, tom verlaine, chris frantz, how much time did they spend just trying to survive? how many fights did they have over... the 1975 equivalent of $20?

but it's not just that, it's also the isolation, that's more important for me, i don't get into fights over $20. it's the isolation. covid casts a long shadow. in the NPR interview they talk about that, responding to the bleakness of john mellencamp, of all people, saying "we're all trapped in our own skin, all basically alone". and weymouth cosigns on that but frantz doesn't, and i'm more on the frantz side here. i'm not really alone, it's... like, i'm sorry to bring up capitalism, but it's this lie we're being sold, that we're all basically alone, that there is no such thing as society, really... and right now there almost isn't, but it's not our _nature_, the state of nature _isn't_ the war of all against all. it's something people like john mellencamp were taught their whole lives. a lot of people of his generation are dying alone and miserable.*

and byrne... this is kind of the essence of the band, he kind of navigates the tension between those two views, doesn't _state_ but _suggests_ what i said above, the idea of punishment, torture... even while enjoying solitude the way weymouth does. he thinks other people _think_ he's miserable, "this poor, lonely fellow". he doesn't think he's miserable. but then, why does he put this thought into the eyes of the people watching him?

frantz calls himself "the happiest man in the world". steve inskeep asks if any of them feel like they're different people and weymouth's response is "well, i was a lot cuter". there are these things we're taught about ourselves, these extremes. because another part of this tension is weymouth closing the p4k interview by saying "i love you too, jerry".

i really appreciate inskeep circling back on byrne talking about his relationship to ASD. it's, like, parallel development, i'm not sure that byrne knows anything directly about neurodiversity today... he talks about "aspergers" in the NPR interview, which isn't a word we use today, it's not part of the clinical landscape, but in so many ways he just gets it, gets the self-diagnosis aspect of it in particular, gets how it's an _identity_. that he has the _right_ to it. frantz says in the p4k interview "I identify as a Talking Head" and out of context that's cringe but in context it's not, he's seriously talking about who he is and that, again, he has the _right_ to it... you don't become an "ex-Talking Head" any more than you become an "ex-alcoholic" or an "ex-President".

what's really interesting is what Andy Cush says about Weymouth in the p4k piece... "Weymouth, who is the type of person who takes an interest in things like library ladders, soon ascends the one in the back of the room and begins telling us about its manufacturer." i know lots of the type of people who take an interest in things like library ladders. david byrne says he's writing a song about moisturizer. again, the whole band has a really interesting dynamic. i like them a lot.

* i used to feel trapped in my own skin... right now i'm listening to "seen and not seen" and think about how accidentally prescient byrne was again... it's not a metaphor, my face has literally changed like that.

Maybe they imagined that their new face
Would better suit their personality
Or maybe they imagined that their personality
Would be forced to change to fit the new appearance

i'm not sure which happened with me. but one way or the other, it did.

also, it occurs to me that "stop making sense, but only when tina weymouth is on screen" is basically rose hobart. which i appreciate.

The Hardly Strictly Bluegrass festival in SF is going on now, and the performances are streamable after the fact (I'm watching it now).

This seems to be the most current TH thread, sorry if it's posted in 10 other TH threads.

https://hardlystrictlybluegrass.vhx.tv/videos/2022-jerry-harrison-adrian-belew-remain-in-light

And, I just noticed this was last year (oops), but still good, and they're touring this now, I think?