Anyway, I bought House Tornado in the HMV sale, because I'd enjoyed it lots at 17, and I wasnt expecting to enjoy it again, and I do. So - classic, or dud?
― Tom, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Best track: "Fish" off the LONELY IS AN EYESORE 4AD compilation (the title of the album is a lyrical swipe from said tune as well).
― alex in nyc, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
As far as Hersh herself is considered, I haven't really liked much after Hips and Makers. She remains a unique lyricist, but the music seems so tame and normal in comparison. I'd hate to suggest -- a la Erica Jong -- that the decline is a result of positive lifestyle developments. You have to admit she isn't as fiery or great as she once was.
As far as Hersh the mother is considered, I'm normally irritated by couples who opt to overpopulate the planet with a big litter of offspring. Hersh is an exception to this -- the more of her genes floating around the better.
Had she kicked it by the end of the '80s, I agree she'd be quite the cult. Probably just above the level of Mary Margaret O'Hara (who is still alive, actually).
"Mexican Women" off House Tornado still spooks me. The line about running over the hill to tear off skin and eat it up comes to mind.
― Andy, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I used to whole-heartedly adore _Hips & Makers_, but soon found it to be a bit too samey. The same with _Strange Angels_ - both albums have amazing songs, though. It just seems that there's always that song (or two of those songs) that sabotage the pacing. _Sky Motel_ sounds like a return to her Throwing Muses days, but is a bit lackluster (again, with some gems in the rough). Those In The Know say that _Sunny Border Blue_ is her best yet. But they always say that.
― David Raposa, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I still like the first album just fine, though they drifted on material between that album and Ramona. For the later material, I like Limbo okay, but I much prefer University, which is chilling and slinky at the same time. (I'm convinced that after the disastrously ugly Red Heaven, Hersh took some time to learn restraint again, with the great Hips and Makes album, and then took those lessons back to the band format for University.) So. Classic.
― Sean Carruthers, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
'Ramona' also marked the last Muses lp with Tanya Donelly...
― Jason, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mark s, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Don't agree about Red Heaven - side one, possibly best TM ever. Will expand tomorrow.
Another classic - "University" - contains best TM track "Bright yellow gun". That drumming!
Duds - Hunkpapa, Fat Skier, most of debut, side 2 of House Tornado.
― Dr. C, Tuesday, 3 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Guy Flower, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Anyhow, absolute classic. Probably my favourite band ever. House Tornado and The Real Ramona are the peaks but I also love the first album, Fat Skier and Chains Changed unreservedly. I reckon they had a bit of a slump after Tanya left, as one of their main attractions for me was the interplay between the two guitars and voices, but University is still a fine album. Hunkpapa is the only serious misstep, with all its filler and mistaken attempts at going pop. Hips and Makers is also great but the last couple of Hersh solo albums have been a bit weak.
― Richard Tunnicliffe, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
It's not as *finished* as The Real Ramona or University, but probably the one I'd say best defines what TM are *about*. It's a type of album I like - sort of like a Scooby album, but not quite. Can't think of a neat way to describe it, but these albums are usually seen as a move in a different direction, often a slightly wrong move (not a total disaster though), and polarise opinion like crazy. They're the kind of album I seek out. Other examples : "Brotherhood" , "Monster", "Punch the Clock".
― Dr. C, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I'd put them on a classic/sacred cow status equal to that of "The Smiths" (not the Smiths the band necessarily, but The Smiths, the Legend). In fact, for many of the same reasons-
First off, stunning and original guitarwork and musicianship (the hypnotic drums, especially the use of rolls for texture has only ever been matched by Echo & the Bunnymen)
Second, the interplay between two very powerful yet opposed figures (Ver Muses, however, managed to hold fast to their musical ideals even after the figures parted, as evidenced by the quality of the solo work)
Third, because no one has ever managed to quite penetrate and articulate the exact dimensions of the adolescent female mind in quite the same way. ("Delicate Cutters") In fact, probably *all* of the female experience- motherhood, madness, marriage, adulthood- without ever being cloyingly sentimental or insipid, or verving into the other extreme of being overly feminazi. Hersch simply *is* female, and she expresses it perfectly, not as an afterthought or a gimmick.
Standouts for me are:
The self titled album. I can no longer actually listen to this album, because it expressed and encapsulated so perfectly a time in my life that I would rather forget. It's not a fault of the album that I can no longer listen to it, but rather shows the POWER of it.
The Real Ramona. The two sisters at their most balanced, their most equal in power and songwriting ability, and of course, the band could not survive in that form. Also the most pop, and probably the most easily listenable of the albums.
Hips and Makers. Hersch wandering around the big, empty, spooky house of finally being a proper grown-up and wondering what to do with all the space. Never did anything so sparse sound so lush.
― masonic boom, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Omar, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― cabbage, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Add, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The distinction I make here also has a slightly bogus look. I haven't expressed it too well. But I suppose my point is: there is no difference, really - at least *in this particular context* - between the Smiths (the great pop group who changed so many of our lives) and "The Smiths" ("the great pop group who changed so many of our lives").
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― stevie t, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The Smiths (the band) = either "they saved my angsty teenage life" or "miserable whinging git Morrosey and his Elvis-ripping off henchmen" while The Smiths (the legend) = greatest British band since the Beatles, etc. etc. etc. and all the dissecting of the legend and the personalitys that shaped it and so on.
I was comparing TM to the legend, in terms of their status as giants of music.
Did I say "their"?
What you say above is eloquent and admirable. I wonder if one day you will be able to convince me of it. And I wonder what it would take.
I "heart" you, Stevie.
The physical - yes. "House Tornado" - yes (it made no sense to me and I ignored the tape for weeks; it made sense somewhere near the perimeter of an MoD firing range on Formby beach, late summer '89, wind whipping sand into my headphones).
The most excited I've ever been at a gig - Muses, Trent Poly, Feb '91. The most excited I've ever been about a forthcoming release - "The Real Ramona", Feb '91. The most disappointed I've ever been by an eagerly-awaited release - "Red Heaven", Aug '92.
Right - come on, Roger...
― Michael Jones, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
It must seem unreasonable of me to nitpick away at it like this. I'm not trying to say they're a Dud. I just don't quite see the Classic bit, either, on the whole.
― Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― keith, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
"Not Too Soon" sounds totally out of place on _The Real Ramona_. It sticks out like a polished diamond in a pile of tarnished silver dollars. And it's Tanya's best TM offering, by a wide country hectare.
And it's funny that someone (Sean) thinks that _Hips & Makers_ is a back-to-basics move. I felt the same way, but I think that _University_ was actually recorded BEFORE _Hips & Makers_. I forget where I heard that, but I used that information (& that theory) as the foundation for my breathless praise of _Limbo_ on my site.
― David Raposa, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I can't remember the thread where this discussion took place.
― Dr. C, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
BUT all I was really looking for from our Scouse friends was a (favourable) description which was a little bit 'closer to the music'. Stevie's stuff about Camille Paglia is great - but it's great cos Stevie is great, not (I submit) because TH are great (and CERTAINLY not cos Camille Paglia is great; heaven forfend).
I appreciate that the desire for a description which is 'closer to the music' might be another chimera - another senseless request which our Scouse friends will find it impossible to fulfil. At the end of the day (Clive), I have a feeling that they are talking as much about themselves as about TM - who (I suspect) were very important to them at a certain time in their lives and have thus made a kind of emotional imprint that they can't really explain. That is not a criticism - it might be the best reason for loving a bit of pop music (I think it's my usual reason). It's just that it's not very 'transferrable'. I can appreciate that TM meant something to little Stevie T when he was a wee boy writing vast dissertations for Christopher Bigsby - but I can't hear that in their records. (Or can I?)
― the pinefox, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
You have clearly forgotten the early 90s, when every band from Suede to Blur was described as "The Best British Band Since The Smiths". That's legendeering on a scale with the B**tles.
Back on TM again, yesterday afternoon at the HMV mega-sale, I actually went and bought a copy of House Tornado and Fat Skiier on CD to replace vinyl back in storage. Damn ILM for influencing my record buying habits!!! Second time this week!
― masonic boom, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Wrong again.
I have not forgotten the early 90s. At least, not totally. I wish I could remember them a little more vividly than I do - but really, that's another thread entirely.
Your argument now seems to be that because some media people in the early 90s implied that the Smiths were a great band, they're not really a great band - that was just all Legend stuff. Whereas (you asserted above) talking about 'That Miserable Git Morrissey' is not Legend-peddling, but is simply the rough, unvarnished Truth.
From my POV (which as ever is not anyone else's POV), the Smiths are perhaps the greatest British band after the Beatles. Put it another way: they are perhaps the most important band to me ever. This is not much to do with constructing Legends; it's just the way I feel about this band. (I don't ask anyone else to share this feeling.)
I fear that what this 'debate' comes down to is that you don't like the Smiths much, and I do. Fear not, I have no desire to make you like them more.
― Omar, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
But that does not stop them from having a "Legend" which has far overtaken either their music or their lasting influence. You are just unable to see them because your devotion outweighs your rationality.
If some people/lots of people/everyone except me/no-one thinks a particular artist is the best ever it couldn't possibly change the way that I think by itself. (However,weight of opinion might suggest that I have another listen and I COULD have been wrong all along : "Loveless". That's different.)
Masonic Boom: disappointed by your resort to cheap abuse. I maintain that you are mistaken and your distinction is, in this instance, utterly BOGUS. BUT you were right about one thing earlier: this is the Muses thread and we ought to be discussing them.
― Dr. C, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Totally sublime, forgive-them-anything-for-that Throwing Muses moment which Scouse worshippers at shrine of Hersh have not mentioned (perhaps don't like?): TWO STEP.
― the pinefox, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Melissa W, Friday, 13 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Sean Carruthers - Yes it rocks, but thats not its why it holds its own. Yes, maybe they did have something to prove and in my mind they did. The Real Ramona was a great album, but a follow-on would've been impossible. With Donelly onboard, it could've easily turned out to be little more than sugar-coated pop dross. Not that I dislike Donelly's post-Muses ventures, its just that I think another Ramona would've involved too many compromises. Tanya and Kristin were obviously going in different directions.
I agree with Dr C. - Red Heaven is a classic album. Its raw and fresh, like one of them just said "well its just me and you now, lets get down to it". Red Heaven really conveys a sense of rapport, especially Rosetta Stone. Kristin seems to hit upon something that transcends the 'bit'iness of some of their previous outings. To me, it appears as if she finally managed to give all her ambivalence a face of its own. Red Heaven has a very rich character, indeed. If they were attempting to reinstate a more personal and intimate sense of identity, then I think they certainly achieved it.
Given the choice between:-
a) a "chilling and slinky" male fantasy involving Kristin Hersh, ice cream and a black negligee.
and
b) the opportunity to ride along with someone blowing out the cobwebs during a transitional phase in their life.
... I would take the latter ;)
― Nat, Saturday, 1 February 2003 14:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Nat, Saturday, 1 February 2003 15:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― kate, Saturday, 1 February 2003 15:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
I definitely wouldn't say that you're only familiar with the "dud album", Dyson. From what I've heard of her discography it sounds like Hersh started with her most apocalyptic (or grating, depending on your tastes) work and then gradually mellowed, while remaining off-kilter and "in touch with her emotions". I'd certainly give the older stuff a try, but it's pretty up in the air what you'll prefer. I'm not sure myself, but my girlfriend would vote for "The Real Ramona" as her fave.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 1 February 2003 18:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andy K (Andy K), Saturday, 1 February 2003 19:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 February 2003 22:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mike a (mike a), Sunday, 2 February 2003 06:56 (twenty-one years ago) link
Would someone in the recording industry PLEASE compile all those odd EP / b-side / single tracks onto one accesible compact disc type object? Yo, Ivo! (This is especially urgent & key as I've found a SLSKer w/ the entire TM disco available for D/L - including the new album! - BUT a) they've 600+ people in their queue and b) their D/L speed is 0.8!)
― David R. (popshots75`), Sunday, 2 February 2003 17:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Aaron A., Sunday, 2 February 2003 17:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
David R. is BONKERS.
― Andy K (Andy K), Sunday, 2 February 2003 18:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
Get these and be a better human being:
HOUSE TORNADO + THE FAT SKIERRED HEAVENLIMBO
Then go after all the others. When you're done, start with the Pixies.
― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Sunday, 2 February 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
I just saw Kristin play live about a year ago, and she's still got it.
― mike a (mike a), Sunday, 2 February 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
http://www.inkblotmagazine.com/rev-archive/images/ca_muses.jpg
all! about! this!
Red Heaven is splendid as well, but really, The Real Ramona balances pop and barbed, spiky unease better than any album i've ever heard by anyone ever, FACT.
er...Tanya & Kristin are back working together? Did I miss a meeting? Details, STAT!
― Charlie (Charlie), Sunday, 2 February 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― paul myerscough, Sunday, 2 February 2003 23:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Juan (Juan), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
It's too different from the first album or 'real ramona' to really allow for easy comparison but... well, I liked 'red heaven' and 'imbo' ok but never ever listen to them. The songwriting here hasn't been so consistently on since the first two albums and eps. I'm 100% re-smitten.
― milton, Thursday, 17 April 2003 21:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
but less classic after kristen started taking her meds. or something.
i have "soap and water" in my head all the time.
― brian badword (badwords), Friday, 18 April 2003 05:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 3 February 2004 22:28 (twenty years ago) link
― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 30 April 2004 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link
Thoughts on: Throwing Muses (s/t 2003) vs. Red Heaven vs. 50 Foot Wave - Golden Ocean ?
I've still not heard TM2003 or Golden Ocean ffs. I guess I've been wary, because I'm real picky about the TM output I do like. Ignoring the more average (by their standards, not others) albums (Hunkpapa, Limbo, University, for KH solo I dropped off after Strange Angels sadly) makes them seem SO much more legendary in my mind.
Relative prolificity (and Kirsten not losing the plot) has I'd agree, really hurt their standing compared to other similarly awesome bands.
― fandango (fandango), Saturday, 20 August 2005 09:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― jimmy glass (electricsound), Saturday, 20 August 2005 11:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― the pinefox, Saturday, 20 August 2005 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 20 August 2005 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 20 August 2005 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 20 August 2005 20:33 (eighteen years ago) link
Question.
Does anyone else, anywhere, ever, dislike "Not Too Soon" and feel, much like I do, that it's the one track that keeps The Real Ramona from being solid start-to-finish?
I much, much prefer "Green" and "The River," Tanya-wise.
― babyalive (babyalive), Saturday, 20 August 2005 22:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 20 August 2005 23:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Sunday, 21 August 2005 00:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― nickn (nickn), Sunday, 21 August 2005 01:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― David R., Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― fandango, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― libarian, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Thursday, 22 February 2007 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― DavidM, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:47 (seventeen years ago) link
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― Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 00:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― dlp9001, Friday, 23 February 2007 01:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 01:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 01:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Bimble, Friday, 23 February 2007 05:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Milton Parker, Friday, 23 February 2007 05:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― f. hazel, Friday, 23 February 2007 06:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 23 February 2007 06:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― clotpoll, Friday, 23 February 2007 07:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― nickn, Friday, 23 February 2007 08:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Xochipilli, Friday, 23 February 2007 16:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― David R., Friday, 23 February 2007 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pye Poudre, Friday, 23 February 2007 17:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― dlp9001, Friday, 23 February 2007 17:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward, Friday, 23 February 2007 17:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Bimble, Saturday, 24 February 2007 18:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Sunday, 25 February 2007 02:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 3 March 2007 13:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― mitya, Saturday, 3 March 2007 18:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 3 March 2007 19:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― rogermexico., Tuesday, 13 March 2007 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― get bent, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 16:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 30 April 2007 01:28 (sixteen years ago) link
― Bimble, Monday, 30 April 2007 01:35 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Monday, 30 April 2007 01:44 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 30 April 2007 01:49 (sixteen years ago) link
― Noodle Vague, Monday, 30 April 2007 01:52 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 30 April 2007 02:05 (sixteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 30 April 2007 02:06 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 30 April 2007 02:21 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Monday, 30 April 2007 02:52 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Monday, 30 April 2007 02:53 (sixteen years ago) link
― SeekAltRoute, Monday, 30 April 2007 11:54 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 30 April 2007 12:01 (sixteen years ago) link
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 30 April 2007 12:03 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Monday, 30 April 2007 12:04 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 30 April 2007 12:25 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 30 April 2007 14:31 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 30 April 2007 14:41 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:44 (sixteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:48 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:55 (sixteen years ago) link
― Edward III, Thursday, 3 May 2007 17:23 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Thursday, 3 May 2007 20:53 (sixteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 3 May 2007 20:57 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 00:17 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 00:18 (sixteen years ago) link
― Curt1s Stephens, Friday, 4 May 2007 00:24 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 00:35 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 00:44 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Friday, 4 May 2007 00:51 (sixteen years ago) link
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― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 00:57 (sixteen years ago) link
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― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 01:02 (sixteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 4 May 2007 01:10 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Friday, 4 May 2007 01:28 (sixteen years ago) link
― Edward III, Friday, 4 May 2007 01:39 (sixteen years ago) link
― Edward III, Friday, 4 May 2007 01:50 (sixteen years ago) link
― Edward III, Friday, 4 May 2007 01:51 (sixteen years ago) link
― SeekAltRoute, Friday, 4 May 2007 02:23 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 03:38 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 4 May 2007 03:47 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Thursday, 10 May 2007 14:48 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 11 May 2007 19:52 (sixteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 11 May 2007 19:59 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Friday, 11 May 2007 20:07 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Saturday, 12 May 2007 04:21 (sixteen years ago) link
― the ghost of cary grant, Saturday, 12 May 2007 05:22 (sixteen years ago) link
― Bimble, Saturday, 12 May 2007 11:44 (sixteen years ago) link
― Michael Jones, Saturday, 12 May 2007 12:19 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 12 May 2007 14:00 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Saturday, 12 May 2007 14:13 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 12 May 2007 14:21 (sixteen years ago) link
― mitya, Sunday, 13 May 2007 05:14 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Sunday, 13 May 2007 09:29 (sixteen years ago) link
― Trayce, Sunday, 13 May 2007 10:10 (sixteen years ago) link
― Bimble, Sunday, 13 May 2007 22:34 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Sunday, 13 May 2007 22:48 (sixteen years ago) link
The debut Throwing Muses album was released 21 years ago this week in the UK on 4ad.
― djmartian, Monday, 27 August 2007 10:36 (sixteen years ago) link
Really? I feel so old....
The first TM song I ever heard was 'Rabbit's Dying' on 6UVS-FM (as it was called then) in Perth, Western Australia. Yes, it is/was a university station.
I recall buying the LP the very next day.
― SeekAltRoute, Monday, 27 August 2007 11:17 (sixteen years ago) link
The first thing I heard was a demo tape with an early, creepy version of "Stand Up" that got circulated around Rhode Island.
― Jazzbo, Monday, 27 August 2007 12:26 (sixteen years ago) link
I just digitized my early 4AD vinyl this weekend. Still classic.
― sleeve, Monday, 27 August 2007 15:25 (sixteen years ago) link
Classic. Without a doubt.
I prefer Tanya to Kristin, probably because in a throw-down i think she'd fight dirty; biting, scratching, knee's to the kootch - you know, whatever it takes. The partnership between Ms. Donelly and Ms. Deal, however, was a great match, and today i'll listen to that first Breeders album even before something as good as "Ramona".
― christoff, Monday, 27 August 2007 15:51 (sixteen years ago) link
The Real Ramona and University are probably my least favourite of the Muses albums I own, despite the insane amount of love they get here. I think they're a touch too shiny sounding, especially University. House Tornado is classic from start to finish, it has a sort of raw countryish sound to it. I should probably hear the debut before I make any judgements on a best album though.
Tanya Donelly's songs are bright spots on the albums, they turn up just when you want a bit of variety. But Throwing Muses really is Kristin's band - it's the force of her personality that carries them.
Dave Narcizo's drumming is faultless as well. It's criminal how little recognition they get, honestly.
― verhexen, Monday, 27 August 2007 22:11 (sixteen years ago) link
FACT: "Not Too Soon" sounds as absolutely perfect today as it did in 1991.
― Alex in NYC, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:10 (sixteen years ago) link
It sure does! That whole album, actually.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 28 January 2008 19:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Because I'm such a blogwhore, do clicketh here!
― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 00:54 (sixteen years ago) link
The odd thing about "Not Too Soon" is that it was one of the Muses' earliest songs — they were playing it live long before the debut came out — and yet it didn't see the light of day until album #4.
― Jazzbo, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:22 (sixteen years ago) link
"Fish" blew my mind when I first heard it in 1987ish, and that still sounds just as good now, too.
― nate woolls, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:26 (sixteen years ago) link
yea that's one of my favorite songs on the album now. after like alfred pointed out to me how good it was last year. really wonderful. it has an old-timey girl group thing about it too, great twist.
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:30 (sixteen years ago) link
Just found this link — "Not Too Soon" was performed live on a University of Rhode Island radio show way back in 1985. I remember taping this show myself.
http://www.throwingmusic.com/jive/thread.jspa;jsessionid=ABD334DD295D68E646FE8682488F55F2?messageID=5337ᓙ
― Jazzbo, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:30 (sixteen years ago) link
Fuck. Try again. http://www.throwingmusic.com/jive/thread.jspa;jsessionid=ABD334DD295D68E646FE8682488F55F2?messageID=5337ᓙ
― Jazzbo, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:31 (sixteen years ago) link
Never mind.
― Jazzbo, Tuesday, 29 January 2008 15:32 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm curious to know if anyone else has a certain Throwing Muses song or songs that will come into their head now and again for some unknown reason. For me the main one is "And A She-Wolf After The War". Although I'm also haunted by "Walking In The Dark", "You Cage"...and that lyric from something on House Tornado when she says "keep walking/If I did the same thing/Five hundred times/could you see it in the dark?"
― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 03:54 (fifteen years ago) link
I can't believe I wrote this almost a year ago to the day:
I'm not really sure the Muses are something I feel comfortable pulling out now, they seem tied up with all this teenager angst for me, not a pleasant place to revisit.
-- Bimble, Sunday, May 13, 2007 11:34 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link
― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 03:59 (fifteen years ago) link
to answer your first question, tar kissers comes into my head a lot. or snake off uni.
i can't believe you said that either!
― Surmounter, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 04:08 (fifteen years ago) link
it must be some other thread where scott proposes that their debut is the best record ever made by a band whose members were all in their teens at the time. I think he's right.
― sleeve, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 04:25 (fifteen years ago) link
Goodness, were they really all in their teens or are you shitting me?
― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 04:51 (fifteen years ago) link
The duet with Bob Mould on Red Heaven, "Dio", pops into my head every once in a while. Deeeeee-oooooooo.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 05:00 (fifteen years ago) link
bimble yes as far as I know they were all under 20, Hersh was 18.
― sleeve, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 05:10 (fifteen years ago) link
I think that is right, ya.
I used to quite often get "I have to sleep/tangled in my familys hair" stuck in my head unbidden from Walking in the Dark. And "Fish" pops into my head now and then, esp if I've been counting something, as I'll start going "one plus two plus three plus four plus five plus six plus six plus six"
― Trayce, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 06:11 (fifteen years ago) link
There is not one band on this planet that could make a record that sounds like House Tornado.
Are there any comtemporary bands that could be compared to early TM?
― Jack Battery-Pack, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 07:51 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.tobysnax.com/shop/
― Thomas, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 13:22 (fifteen years ago) link
bimble yes as far as I know they were all under 20, Hersh was 18. Yeah, they were all young ’uns. I remember running into David Narcizo at a club in Newport — this was after the debut came out — and offering to buy him a drink. He reminded me that he wasn't yet of age.
― Jazzbo, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 13:32 (fifteen years ago) link
anyone heard this btw : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakuna - any good?
― Thomas, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 13:34 (fifteen years ago) link
DIZZY!
― piscesx, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 19:41 (fifteen years ago) link
the doghouse demo that came with the US reissue of the first album is incredible. the first album was burdened with an 80s production job (wow reverb makes the drums sound so good argh) but the demo is clean as a whistle making stuff like "vicky's box" cut deeper, and as a bonus the unreleased songs from the demo are just as good - "sinkhole"!
― Edward III, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 19:54 (fifteen years ago) link
OMG this is back up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exb_Uk-i-M
so great ("Shimmer" live)
― wanko ergo sum, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 20:06 (fifteen years ago) link
^^Genius awesomeness!
― SeekAltRoute, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 20:28 (fifteen years ago) link
Been listening to Cry Baby Cry constantly over the past couple of days. I keep thinking it's my favourite of theirs until I remember all the other ones I love. There aren't many bands who were pretty much uniformly brilliant throughout their career but in so many different ways. Every song is like its own little universe.
Anyone seen the Paradoxical Undressing show? Thoughts?
― verhexen, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 21:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Shimmer posted above is pure goosebumps.
― Thomas, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 21:49 (fifteen years ago) link
Throwing Muses are playing in Australia in January 2009.
It's going to be GOOD year.
― Oh noes! (SeekAltRoute), Thursday, 9 October 2008 01:09 (fifteen years ago) link
Tonight. Corner Hotel Hotel, Richmond.
It happens.
― Live from the Witch Trials (SeekAltRoute), Thursday, 15 January 2009 00:23 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm going too! This'll be the 3rd time (I think?) ive seen them live, 4th if I count Kristin's solo gig round the time of her first solo album.
Curious as to what kind of set it will be, and I dont have the most recent album so I'm stuffed if they play all from that.
― Trayce, Thursday, 15 January 2009 01:09 (fifteen years ago) link
This review of the Wellington show on Monday night might give you an idea of what you're in for...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4817807a26666.html
Gonna be pretty happy if Shimmer, Start, Limbo and Pearl (!!) all get an airing again...
― Live from the Witch Trials (SeekAltRoute), Thursday, 15 January 2009 01:49 (fifteen years ago) link
Thats half the set they did last time I saw them, dagnabbit! hahaha :)
― Trayce, Thursday, 15 January 2009 03:38 (fifteen years ago) link
In fact I remember when they did Pearl - a guy next to me was hollering all the lines in the quiet bit really loudly, and his gf snapped during a quiet part "thats it, I dont know you any more" and Kristin started laughing and almost lost her place.
― Trayce, Thursday, 15 January 2009 03:46 (fifteen years ago) link
If they did any songs from Fat Skier I'd be well pleased.
― Trayce, Thursday, 15 January 2009 04:22 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm a Limbo man.
― Nate Carson, Thursday, 15 January 2009 12:52 (fifteen years ago) link
That was a pretty damn fine gig! I was stoked that they did "Finished", I don't think I've heard them do that live before.
― Trayce, Thursday, 15 January 2009 23:03 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm exhausted now.
― Trayce, Thursday, 15 January 2009 23:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Set list as much as I can remember it of (this is totally not in order, I'm too hung over, and there were 3 songs i didnt recognise which I'll assume were from the 2003 album cos I dont have that). Shit they did a lot of songs. I guess thats easy when they're all fairly short.
FinishedShimmerHazingStartVicky's BoxTar KissersBea Devil's RoofSharkBright Yellow GunSay GoodbyePearlMania (awesome encore, I love how fucked up fast and crazy they do this live)
I'm sure there was more, my head's too foggy.
They didn't do The Teller or Fish which made me sadface, and the 4 times I've seen them I don't think I've ever heard them play a note from the Fat Skier ep which is odd, because I'm sure they used to do those songs back in the day. Interesting they always do Vicky's Box now when Kristin used to say she wouldnt play it live.
She wasnt as "posessed" looking as in the past. They just seemed laid back, grown up and fierce instead. Still got a fine scream on her though :)
― Trayce, Thursday, 15 January 2009 23:42 (fifteen years ago) link
Thanks for the report.
― gods jangle the key change (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 16 January 2009 00:10 (fifteen years ago) link
to see tar kissers live
― Surmounter, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:23 (fifteen years ago) link
i can't even imagine
or hazing
Yeah Hazing and Start are just *ecstatic* live, I couldnt help but sing along joyously, a lot of the crowd didnt seem to know older stuff and so I was probably being That Annoying Person heh.
― Trayce, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:25 (fifteen years ago) link
I also got footage of "Finished" but Im not sure if I can put it on the yootubes because I filmed half the song in portrait and then realised that would come out sideways when watching back :(
― Trayce, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:26 (fifteen years ago) link
omg start. i didn't know that's what it was called. this album got me through some crazy times.
― Surmounter, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:36 (fifteen years ago) link
wow and SHIMMER
so much university. shimmmmmmmmer
― Surmounter, Friday, 16 January 2009 00:42 (fifteen years ago) link
There were many bands then and today featuring lyricists on the verge. What made Throwing Muses stand out amongst their peers was their rhythm section. David Narcizo's cymbal eschewing, marching beats, and Leslie Langston's loping, perhaps afro-pop inspired contrapuntal basslines made Hersh's struggles entertaining. To be honest, I largely lost interest after House Tornado because Langston's role was being neutered, perhaps in an effort to woo the grungy alternative audience.
― derelict, Friday, 16 January 2009 15:23 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't know if you could exactly say Leslie's role was being neutered after House Tornado, although I'd say that was their best album - if you listen to Hunkpapa, a lot of the time the basslines are carrying the songs and keeping them from being ridiculously simple and anodyne. She'd left by The Real Ramona anyway.
Really excited that they played Devil's Roof and Finished, think that's made up my mind to go to the Breeders-curated ATP to see them.
― verhexen, Friday, 16 January 2009 15:44 (fifteen years ago) link
I saw Kristin Hersh with Bob Mould at the Birchmere a couple years ago. I still love her.
Search Snakeface and Bright Yellow Gun, obv. Hips and Makers is classic; though I own and have listened to Sky Motel and Sunny Border Blue they don't really grab me in the same visceral way. But nevertheless Muses = classic.
― Ye Mad Puffin, Friday, 16 January 2009 15:47 (fifteen years ago) link
not sure yet whether i can/want to go to the Breeders ATP yet (though Throwing Muses at ATP = long overdue and should be good) so hope there will be a London date too! I want to see this...
― lynshroom, Friday, 16 January 2009 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link
can somebody please tell me what this breeders ATP thing is immediately
snakeface is so good.
― Surmounter, Friday, 16 January 2009 17:12 (fifteen years ago) link
The Breeders are curating the All Tomorrows Parties festival in England (Minehead, I think) in May, confirmed acts so far: Throwing Muses, Breeders, Bon Iver, Kimya Dawson, Teenage Fanclub, Holy Fuck.
I've never really been sold on most of the stuff off University. I don't know why but it doesn't click, I'm surprised at how much love that album gets here.
― verhexen, Friday, 16 January 2009 17:23 (fifteen years ago) link
it used to not click for me, and then one day it did. a lot.
it's the snare drums and textures. it's like an ocean. and her voice.
that festival sounds fucking amazing
― Surmounter, Friday, 16 January 2009 17:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Absolutely motherfucking classic.
How can you deny "Bright Yellow Gun," "Flood," "Honeychain," "Not too Soon," "Cry Baby Cry," etc. etc.
― Turangalila, Friday, 13 March 2009 06:05 (fifteen years ago) link
"Flood" is absolutely transcendent. The mournful lyrical repetition...and the gorgeous strings! Ugh, and that piano break/bridge.
― Turangalila, Friday, 13 March 2009 06:09 (fifteen years ago) link
OH, and SHARK
SUBLIME!!!
'i could kiss you for remembering my birthday, you should thank me for remembering your name'
'i could kiss you for remembering my address, you should thank me for offering my mattress'
I'm guessing one of the reasons Hersh's stuff is so haunting & memorable for me is the way she employs repetition with variation -- you hear it again and again in her stuff --
"Start with your eyes / when they eye me in twilight [...]Pick me up / with the twine in your eyelight"
There's something literally twisted here, which is to say, literally involving.
― anatol_merklich, Saturday, 14 March 2009 03:29 (fifteen years ago) link
So I've had a passing fondness for TM for many years and had always meant to investigate further, but never go around to in until recently, when I got my hands on The Real Ramona. I immediately fell head over heels for it & have since been searching their catalog backwards from that point to their s/t debut, and I love every minute of it (save, perhaps, for a few dud moments on Hunkpapa. I guess my next frontier will be the post-Donnelly material, which I am greatly looking forward to. I love making (re)discoveries like this!
― 2 ears + 1 ❤ (Pillbox), Sunday, 5 April 2009 16:10 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, Hunkpapa had some dud moments as I recall. That album really felt like a step backwards for them when it came out. Although there's still some classic stuff on there ("Mania" especially), that's the album of theirs I tend to forget about.
― Earl of Gothington Manor (Bimble), Monday, 6 April 2009 00:16 (fifteen years ago) link
The production on Hunkpapa is SO gross. "Dizzy" and the song about Kristen's life getting saved by rock and roll are the keepers.
― The Screaming Lobster of Challops (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 6 April 2009 00:50 (fifteen years ago) link
where is my husband?
― Surmounter, Monday, 6 April 2009 00:56 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, that's exactly it, Alfred. It seemed like the big bad major record label was trying to make them something they could never be.
― Earl of Gothington Manor (Bimble), Monday, 6 April 2009 01:14 (fifteen years ago) link
Track down the 10" or 12" edition of Dizzy for two absolutely stunning live b-sides, Mania and Downtown. The drumming and vocals on Mania are just frightening. A window into what Hunkpapa could have been with the right production.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 11 May 2009 21:26 (fourteen years ago) link
― Earl of Gothington Manor (Bimble), Sunday, April 5, 2009 9:14 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
not sure about this. the band had a lot of different sounds, so i'm not sure about the "they could never be" part
― Surmounter, Monday, 11 May 2009 22:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Wasn't Hunkpapa the period in which K was going through some seriously bad shit? Mental issues (more so'n usual), divorce or custody battle of some kind and/or her ex manager screwing her over. Something like that? It shows in the emotion on it - or lack of, she seems so ... dead. In some songs this works though. I love "Hook in her Head" because it sounds so end of the rope but I'll kill you if I have to.
― 65daysofsugban (Trayce), Monday, 11 May 2009 23:16 (fourteen years ago) link
"hook in her head" is on the real ramona. it was before that album that she lost custody of her eldest son - i think the father was an ex-manager - and her mental illness was used against her during the hearings. hence the track "dylan" i guess. i don't get that it or she sounds "dead" though?
"hunkpapa" had a lot of record company interference supposedly. it's the weakest sure, but it's still got loads of great songs that haven't already been mentioned like bea and take, as well as mania etc.
― joe, Monday, 11 May 2009 23:27 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think it was all label interference. I remember an interview where Hersh said she could feel some people getting too overwhelmed, and thought she'd try writing songs with only one hook going at a time instead of three to six. even with thin production it's got moments. then they took a half-step backwards towards jumbled for "Real Ramona" (+ better production) and nailed what they were going for.
proud owner of grapefruit edition of "Ramona" CD
― Milton Parker, Monday, 11 May 2009 23:50 (fourteen years ago) link
yea i was gonna say that ramona seemed too cool/sensible a progression for it to be all label interference
― Surmounter, Monday, 11 May 2009 23:52 (fourteen years ago) link
what's the grapefruit edition?
― joe, Monday, 11 May 2009 23:57 (fourteen years ago) link
silkscreen of perfectly halved grapefruit on CD surface. same music. in 91, full color CDs were still kinda wowsville.
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 00:06 (fourteen years ago) link
nice. the only limited edition thing i have is that brilliant live at maxwell's cd which came with the first copies of red heaven.
anyone seen any of the reunion shows? i'm gonna see them at primavera :D :D :D
― joe, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 00:27 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh gods yeah I just mixed up Hunkpapa and Real Ramona, gah.
― 65daysofsugban (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 01:46 (fourteen years ago) link
I have the live at Maxwells CD too, didn't know that was a limited run thing.
― 65daysofsugban (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 01:47 (fourteen years ago) link
Joe: by reunion shows d'you mean TD is back in the fold? Wonder why that wasn't the case when they toured Aus a few months ago, if so. Not that I mind all that much.
Challops time: I never cared much for Tanya's work in the band, first EP and album aside. Yes, "Green" and "Reel" were brilliant, but I found songs like "Not Too Soon" rather tepid and poppy. They werent what the TMs were about, for me personally. It's perhaps worth noting I likewise really dont like Belly at all.
― 65daysofsugban (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 01:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Yes, I often wonder how 'limited' limited really is....
(I too have the Maxwells CD. And 'The Curse', another "limited" live CD...)
― Kings of Lygon (SeekAltRoute), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 02:04 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh the Curse! Man I havent listened to that in f'rever.
I had some very early TMs (and Pixies) casette boots floating around. From the days they were still relatively little-known and just on 4ad. Raw stuff, quite good. Must try and find and mp3 them.
I may have said this upthread. I am going senile.
― 65daysofsugban (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 02:21 (fourteen years ago) link
no tanya for the upcoming shows, they just hadn't toured for ages until nz last year and aus a few months ago, i think. don't call it a comeback, they've been here for years etc.
― joe, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 08:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah the show here in Jan was awesome, they still got it, well worth seeing them.
― 65daysofsugban (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 09:47 (fourteen years ago) link
demo of a new song: http://throwingmuses.cashmusic.org/
― joe, Sunday, 24 January 2010 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link
sweet! thanks!
― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Monday, 25 January 2010 02:16 (fourteen years ago) link
Throwing Muses raw studio feed on Vimeo. "unedited video of throwing muses in stable sound studio, portsmouth, ri, usa...january 2011"
― you think you're cool, but you read ick (Phil D.), Saturday, 8 January 2011 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link
!!!! amazing
― surm, Saturday, 8 January 2011 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
Yay in the studio! Let's see which Muses are in there.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 8 January 2011 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Kristin, David and Bernard... very good.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 8 January 2011 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
according to kh's twitter, they finished recording today: "loose ends tied up in the studio, everybody's going home...sad but, a year and a half in the making, the record sounds exactly as it should"
― joe, Saturday, 8 January 2011 21:34 (thirteen years ago) link
yea i just saw that! lovin it hard
― surm, Saturday, 8 January 2011 23:05 (thirteen years ago) link
So what is essential listening in your expert opinions?
― ENBB, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
real ramona was my intro to them, which i think is a good midway point betw. the early/late stuff.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
1st album, Chains Changed EP, The Fat Skier are all great
other people might rep for House Tornado or the later stuff, but for me it's all about those first three (and "Fish" of course, a comp track).
― sleeve, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
The first, self-titled album is essential.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link
Real Ramona is the only Throwing Muses album I know. I rep hard for her solo album "The Grotto" and everything she's done with 50 Foot Wave. 50 Foot Wave is fucking massive.
― Damo Suzuki's Dead Parrot (kkvgz), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link
would recommend House Tornado, one of my favourite albums of all time. as powerful as the debut, but in a more contained way - they took off the razor sharp edge. the debut IS essential listening though, and the EPs already suggested are similarly high quality.
Real Ramona is a good entry point for some, cause it's as about as big and colourful as they get without being dull. Late period albums (University, Limbo, second s/t) all solid but less remarkable than the early stuff. Avoid the awkward middle years (Hunkpapa, Red Heaven) until you get to know them better
― verhexen, Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
ST first album is one of my all time favourite records.
― Bonnie Tyler The Creator (Doran), Thursday, 10 February 2011 21:48 (thirteen years ago) link
e - I know that for a while, she would have a good selection of free/tipjar mp3s on her website. I dont know if she's still doing that, but it would be worth checking out.
― Damo Suzuki's Dead Parrot (kkvgz), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link
I have to say start with the first album. It is them at their rawest core. Perhaps I'm biased because I've been into them since they began and hearing the debut and the Chains Changed ep just did my head in completely at the time.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:51 (thirteen years ago) link
HeWon't ride in cars any moreIt reminds him ofBlow jobsThat he's a queer
...such a strange song.
skip Hunkpapa, but dl 'Dizzy' - it is a jam
seconding s/t, rr & esp. the Chains Changed EP
I still need to hear Fat Skier
― frankly, mr. cankly (Pillbox), Thursday, 10 February 2011 22:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Ugh I hate "Dizzy"!
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:09 (thirteen years ago) link
Well no not hate. But I dont like it.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:10 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't mind dizzy but it seems like time has been unkind to it
will agree with everyone saying real ramona and the debut
― down in the eustachian tube at midnight (electricsound), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:11 (thirteen years ago) link
― Bonnie Tyler The Creator (Doran), Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:48 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
― michel four lokault (donna rouge), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:12 (thirteen years ago) link
not too soon >> everything else tanya donelly ever did
― down in the eustachian tube at midnight (electricsound), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Nar I prefer her on "Reel"!
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:13 (thirteen years ago) link
"Fat Skier" is a really good ep btw. Especially "Soap and Water", which is a delightfully schizy scattershot jam.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:14 (thirteen years ago) link
"This is my house, roll out the red carpet/hogs head on a ragdoll/never was a little girl"
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Wait thats Garoux des Larmes. Anyway.
"Low Red Moon" was the best song Tanya ever recorded, you pack of trolls!
― unregistered, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:16 (thirteen years ago) link
The order you first hear these things makes a big difference; I heard House Tornado before the debut and the latter always seemed kinda grey in comparison, like its muted cover. I sort of forgot about it for years. HT still sounds perfect and powerful but the debut I only really rediscovered thanks to reading Rat Girl last year, and it's incredible.
The received wisdom on Hunkpapa is that it's stymied by airless, flat production cos there are certainly some great songs in there, kinda writhing to get out (kinda hanging on his sleeve).
The Real Ramona has dated a fair bit to these ears. Red Heaven better than I thought it was on release. The subsequent records all have their moments, but nothing to touch the thrill of S/T-Chains-Fat Skier-HT.
I will happily listen to/read anything Kristin puts her hand to.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I was surprised to learn lately that "The Letter" (from Hips & Makers) was originally a Throwing Muses song written in 1984-5. so it's not so much a recollection/reliving of her past as it is an immediate expression of anguish. the recording I heard (from a 1985 radio session) is a 7-minute-long VU drone, but the sound quality is awful.
does anyone know if the bootleg of early ('83-'84) Muses demos is any good?
― unregistered, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Wow thanks guys. I don't know how I never got into them earlier but this is sort of a newish discovery for me even though based on stuff I've listened to and loved throughout the years I should have been a fan for a long time by this point. Thanks for all the input. Will check it all out.
― ENBB, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:24 (thirteen years ago) link
never heard those early demos, would be interesting. there are some live recordings spanning 1989-2009 at archive.org - http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=(collection:ThrowingMuses%20OR%20mediatype:ThrowingMuses)%20AND%20-mediatype:collection&sort=datethink there's 50 foot wave and hersh solo stuff too.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh I've heard some of (all of?) the early demos when they had that other member who played keyboards. Some of it was utter cheese! Like, nothing at all like what was to come - just clumsy 80s home pop band.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:28 (thirteen years ago) link
you also definitely want to listen to both Kristin Hersh and Tanya Donelly's solo work. at the very least, Crooked and Sunny Border Blue for Kristin, and Lovesongs for Underdogs for Tanya
― katherine, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:29 (thirteen years ago) link
thanks, tyler (xxp)! that's a lot to take in. there are some early Muses recordings here, including the early demos (which I haven't heard), a live set from 1986, and some early acoustic versions of tracks from their s/t.
in terms of recommendations I second their first two albums and The Real Ramona (I really like the way the guitars sound on that one). Kristin's solo album Hips & Makers and Belly's Star are also essential.
― unregistered, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:30 (thirteen years ago) link
oh cool thanks right back atcha. real ramona has a real early 1990s college rock sound, but in a good way imo.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:31 (thirteen years ago) link
"Dirt is on the Floor" is the one I'm thinking of. It wasnt even K singing I dont think?
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah see that's the thing I am a fan of their solo work and loved Belly too. For some reason I just never really went as far back as TM. shrug. Changing that now.
― ENBB, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:31 (thirteen years ago) link
unregistered - I love Star and King.
― ENBB, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:32 (thirteen years ago) link
it's amazing!
― ENBB, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:34 (thirteen years ago) link
The production of University is a real hindrance to an otherwise excellent, harrowing collection of songs.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:35 (thirteen years ago) link
what's wrong with the production on that record? too guitar heavy? i liked it the last time i played it.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:36 (thirteen years ago) link
I dunno, I love it an' that ("Not Too Soon"), but I recall seeing TD play "Green" on that first Belly UK tour and, I swear, there were grown men with tears in their eyes. And the song was only six years old at that point, you'd have thought it some half-a-lifetime-away nostalgic rush or something.
Real Ramona is 20 years old this month. Good grief.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:39 (thirteen years ago) link
tylerw, it's too...dry? Monotonous?
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:40 (thirteen years ago) link
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:14 (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Soap & Water is alltime for me also
I quite like how ~thick~ University is but it is so so different to anything they did from say 88 or before, I'm not surprised ppl were prickly about it
― look its not that you listen to metal its that youre a bellend ok (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:42 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, it seemed to be their "we're a ROCK band" record to some extent, but i dig it. Narcizo sounds great on it. And Hersh's vocal on "Shimmer" is scary good.
― tylerw, Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:44 (thirteen years ago) link
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:28 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
Wow I never knew that their 1st 7" EP was a legit release! Why has this not been put out on CD?!?! yeah the one keyboard-based song is awful but it has The Party, which is total spine-tingling amazement.
― sleeve, Friday, 11 February 2011 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Ah yes thats the one! Thats right, I remember being staggered that "Santa Claus" was so old. It sounds really creepy on that ep, very cracked and raw.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry to videobomb, and the sound's not the best, but I've watched this a million timeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exb_Uk-i-M
― Ayo Scott (rip van wanko), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:02 (thirteen years ago) link
intense yo
― Ayo Scott (rip van wanko), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:03 (thirteen years ago) link
I love seeing them live. I've seen them about 4 times now I think. Earlier on they were riveting - she'd look so posessed. These days she's a lot more laid back but still kicks ass hard. I took my ex to their last show here (posted above) and afterwards he would not shut up about how hot Kristin was.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Man I need to listen to the Bob Mould duet now.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:19 (thirteen years ago) link
Aaaargh I havent ripped half my TMs albums, what is the matter with me! *grump*.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:20 (thirteen years ago) link
"Dio" isn't as moving in reality as it is in memory.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:26 (thirteen years ago) link
I dunno, I love the matched roughness of Bob and Kristin's singing.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:27 (thirteen years ago) link
When I was in high school and the first album came out, I said to my friend David "imagine how amazing it would be if this chick sang with Michael Stipe?" (at the time REM hadnt turned into the bloated mess they are now of course).
So when she did "Your Ghost" I think I died a little bit.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah I only listen to Stipeless versions these days. Such a great song.
― Ayo Scott (rip van wanko), Friday, 11 February 2011 01:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Maybe it's because "Hunkpapa" is the first Muses record I ever bought but I find a lot to recommend on there. "Devil's Roof" is great, and "Mania" and "The Burrow" are both freakin' amazing.
Following the publication of "Rat Girl," Kristen and the Muses have been releasing free "Season Sessions" via the website, one each season, with newly-recorded, stripped down versions of Muses songs. There's a version of "Hook In Her Head" in the most recent set that is absolutely fucking tear-your-head-off great, probably better than the version on "Ramona." The complete track lists so far have been:
Fall-----BuzzDevil's RoofFlyingManiaMercuryRed EyesAnd A She-Wolf After The War
Winter---------ColderSharkSoap & WaterJunoHook In Her HeadNight Driving
If you don't already have them, grab them right away.
― Pirates of the Caribbean V: Letters of Marque & Reprisal (Phil D.), Friday, 11 February 2011 01:48 (thirteen years ago) link
wow thanks for that
The only time I saw her was with 50 Foot Wave. I like everything that she's trying to do with that band (loud, not centered on her, etc) but I find that what really draws me in is that spare, desperate sound like on "You Cage", most of Hips & Makers, and some of the 1st LP. I tried Grotto and didn't click with it at all, maybe it's time for a revisit.
― sleeve, Friday, 11 February 2011 02:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Another version of Mania is never a bad thing!
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 11 February 2011 02:06 (thirteen years ago) link
Ugh I hate "Dizzy"!― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:09 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban PermalinkWell no not hate. But I dont like it.― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:10 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalinki don't mind dizzy but it seems like time has been unkind to itwill agree with everyone saying real ramona and the debut― down in the eustachian tube at midnight (electricsound), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:11 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:09 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:10 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― down in the eustachian tube at midnight (electricsound), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:11 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark
I still like Dizzy quite a bit, but my fondness for it may be mostly rooted in nostalgia -- it was the only Muses song I knew for the LONGEST time, when I was a kid, b/c it was on one of those cheap Sire 'Just Say ________' comps, which I used to rock on my walkman ALL the time. I think 'Counting Backwards' may have been on another one of those. It was def the 'college rock' phase of TM that I gravitated to first. It wasn't until a few years ago, actually, that worked my way back to the more esoteric early records (which are def my current favorites). I really dig the Chains Changed ep b/c it combines the best both eras imo, esp.'Finished' & this track (not a beatles cover):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXcRvKaea5Q
― frankly, mr. cankly (Pillbox), Friday, 11 February 2011 02:19 (thirteen years ago) link
ooh, that's one of my very favorites.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 11 February 2011 03:19 (thirteen years ago) link
Finished is possibly one of my favouriteist TMs songs.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 03:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Ta for that link too Phil!
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 03:24 (thirteen years ago) link
"Two Step" slays me.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 11 February 2011 03:34 (thirteen years ago) link
^ If I were putting together a DJ set of early-90s 4AD releases by indie bands from eastern New England, I would fade "Two Step" into "Wave of Mutilation (UK Surf)."
An underrated song on RR is "Red Shoes."
― frankly, mr. cankly (Pillbox), Friday, 11 February 2011 03:48 (thirteen years ago) link
I have such a soft spot for Limbo that I hate to ever see it slighted, even like this: "The subsequent records all have their moments" from upthread." Must be a highly subjective sentimental thing, but it's my go-to TM.
― Ayo Scott (rip van wanko), Friday, 11 February 2011 03:54 (thirteen years ago) link
I would fade "Two Step" into "Wave of Mutilation (UK Surf)
Haaaa. Nice.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 04:09 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, "Limbo" was the album of the year it came out for me. Such a swanky, slinky vibe all over it. David Narcizo is AMAZING, moreso in person.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 11 February 2011 04:40 (thirteen years ago) link
thanks for the link Phil!
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 11 February 2011 05:34 (thirteen years ago) link
^^
― frankly, mr. cankly (Pillbox), Friday, 11 February 2011 05:37 (thirteen years ago) link
I should probably say here that I still go and watch KH at any given op and her recent shows, where she's been mixing up readings from her Paradoxical Undressing/Rat Girl autobiog with acoustic solo/TM/50FW etc songs have been amazing.
The book, unlike most rock star penned tomes, is a fabulous and engaging read; all the more memorable for being able to deal with such emotive subject matter (manic depression, institutionalisation, childhood trauma) in a humble but sharp manner.
She = total hero.
― Under Me Smang Tang (Doran), Friday, 11 February 2011 11:13 (thirteen years ago) link
She so is.
― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Friday, 11 February 2011 12:05 (thirteen years ago) link
What means hallucinate?What are we supposed to see?What are they supposed to want - get a job?You scare me
Fuck, I love this band. For the 330 messages discussing their varying highs and lows, nobody has really pointed out the obvious - that even their weakest moments tower over 90% of music. It's amazing how, musically, Throwing Muses manage to sound like manic depression if manic depression was an audible noise, even without Kristen's twisted lyrics and intense vocals.
― o0o00h really? (boxedjoy), Friday, 11 February 2011 17:35 (thirteen years ago) link
cool interview w/ kristin hersh via the awl - http://www.mischiefandmayhembooks.com/an-interview-with-kristin-hersh/
i didnt know there was a new throwing muses album on the way!
― just sayin, Wednesday, 16 February 2011 15:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Here's where they sound like "Manic Depression"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwOyCAqUzxM
― Wrong-Way Willy (Andy K), Wednesday, 16 February 2011 15:37 (thirteen years ago) link
― o0o00h really? (boxedjoy), Friday, February 11, 2011 5:35 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
totes.
been really into acoustic kristin lately too.
NEW ALBUM!!!!!!!!!
― i like lucy (surm), Wednesday, 16 February 2011 15:37 (thirteen years ago) link
i have this image - of a house, empty, and the wind
is moving through the house, the windows are open
the house is wood, and the back door is cracked, and there is a faint, ghostly music
i don't know why i have that image - but i always associate it with kristin, and certain types of music, and whiskey
― i like lucy (surm), Wednesday, 16 February 2011 15:40 (thirteen years ago) link
Inspired by this thead, I went on a Hersh/Muses binge for the last few days. The 1986 self-titled is indeed golden.
― kkvgz, Thursday, 17 February 2011 13:06 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm thoroughly convinced that every song on the real ramona is a winner. most of them have a subtle creep-under-your-skin quality as well.
― charlie h, Thursday, 17 February 2011 13:31 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^ Even trifles like "Graffiti" really stick with you. "Honeychain" = great predictor of what Belly was going to sound like.
― All you have to do is combine 1 to 7 with (a) to (d) and you should ha (Phil D.), Thursday, 17 February 2011 14:04 (thirteen years ago) link
oh yeah, i adore graffiti and its unique, almost magic-realist lyrics. i find it a really soothing song. so many strong songs towards the end of the album too -- honeychain being one of them.
― charlie h, Thursday, 17 February 2011 14:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Wax in your earsWax in miiiiiiiiiiiine!heads roll and heads roll, heads roll and heads roll
― kkvgz, Thursday, 17 February 2011 17:15 (thirteen years ago) link
The latest Season Sessions is up tody: http://www.kristinhersh.com/seasonsessions/
Track list:
Call MeCarnival WigCatchEllen WestFishThe Letter
― Ian Curtis danced like a tortured chicken DO U SEE (Phil D.), Monday, 21 March 2011 00:27 (thirteen years ago) link
Today, even.
best setlist ever
― sleeve, Monday, 21 March 2011 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Damn I've just realised I downloaded those last 2 and still haven't listened to them yet, haha!
― bad voise, it sucked, pick a seat (Trayce), Monday, 21 March 2011 05:28 (thirteen years ago) link
oh wow, I just downloaded all three of these. amazing!
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 21 March 2011 05:39 (thirteen years ago) link
She = total hero
OTM
― john. a resident of chicago., Tuesday, 22 March 2011 03:10 (thirteen years ago) link
Revive 'cos 4AD is releasing an anthology called (wait for it) "Anthology" which would not be super-interesting except the initial limited release has a BONUS DISC consisting of a bunch of B-SIDES and COMPILATION-ONLY TRACKS yahoo!
http://www.4ad.com/news/28/6/2011/throwingmusestoreleaseanthologyonseptember5th
Bonus disc tracklisting:
1. Hillbilly2. Same Sun3. Amazing Grace4. Cottonmouth5. Cry Baby Cry6. Manic Depression7. Snailhead8. City Of The Dead9. Jak10. Ride Into The Sun11. Handsome Woman12. Like A Dog13. Crayon Sun14. Red Eyes15. Tar Moochers16. Serene Swing17. Limbobo18. If19. Heel Toe20. Take (Live)21. Finished (Live)22. Back Road (Matter Of Degrees)
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Wednesday, 14 September 2011 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
Any words on the current tour? I am seeing them tonight - first time - and I am proper excited for it.
― "only girl in the kitchen" (boxedjoy), Monday, 7 November 2011 10:12 (twelve years ago) link
Saw them in Manchester last night - absolutely superb. I'm by no means a committed fan, but followed them until Ramona, and was looking fwd to it. Phenomenal musicianship (esp. Bernard Georges, that guy is incredible) and they made a real racket for a three-piece. Kristin seemed happy and focused, and the crowd was really into it; some sustained pogoing by a group of youngsters for about six songs, which made this old fool feel pretty nostalgic. I'd say you're in for a treat.
― that mustardless plate (Bill A), Monday, 7 November 2011 12:59 (twelve years ago) link
So fucking annoyed I couldn't go to that gig. I went to the Pixies/Muses Manchester International gig in 1988. A total game changer for me.
― Conan The Asshander (Doran), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 00:11 (twelve years ago) link
I find I go back to the "House Tornado/Soul Soldier" CD combo. So otherworldly - lots of bands tried to cop their style but none ever captured that sense of abject strangeness.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 00:27 (twelve years ago) link
Is the Anthology a good way in for a newbie? My only exposure to the Muses world is "Hips & Makers"
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 15:49 (twelve years ago) link
Better choice would be the first self-titled album from 1986 or the Real Ramona.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
If you can be bothered to look into which tracks on Anthology came from which album and then find the era that most appeals to you then it's not a bad place to start, but f.hazel is right, those are the two best and essential albums.
Show was awesome, Kristin really does have some set of lungs for screaming on her.
― "only girl in the kitchen" (boxedjoy), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 16:21 (twelve years ago) link
I'm a fan of well-chosen anthologies that showcase an artists entire career, and there's a second disc of b-sides and whatnot so I'd pick that up as it will never be redundant.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 9 November 2011 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
I enjoyed them last night although it was in this kinda converted churchy venue which didn't suit them sound-wise (feel like the promoter might have had Kristin solo in mind when booking it)
also it was sold out but the nature of the place means that that accomodates for all the pews round the side - most ppl stood up in the middle of the room to watch them, because indie rock - so it didn't really seem very busy
pretty crowdpleasing set - seems that Bright Yellow Gun is their best known song, not sure if I should be surprised by that?
― Buster Mottrhymes (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 9 November 2011 16:37 (twelve years ago) link
D'oh! How did I miss the news of this tour :(
― Jeff W, Wednesday, 9 November 2011 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
Monochrome production aside, University is a marvel, ain't it? Love Hersh's guitar throughout. "Flood" was meant for replay.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 2 December 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
It is. "University" and "Limbo" are fantastic albums and "Red Heaven" is rather underrated (the duet with Bob Mould is !!!) as well though admittedly it's the live acoustic bonus disc that blew my mind.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Monday, 3 December 2012 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
'university' is my favorite. whenever i play it in the car i always end up listening to it two or three times in a row.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 3 December 2012 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
"Bright Yellow Gun" only gets a bit ehh when she hits that wah-wah pedal.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 December 2012 01:21 (eleven years ago) link
that's my favourite bit of that song!
― Talcum Mucker, Monday, 3 December 2012 10:14 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, holy shit "Flood", that's a great song. there's also something about it that makes me eerily -- though fondly --nostalgic for the 90's.
― charlie h, Monday, 3 December 2012 12:28 (eleven years ago) link
Teller's my personal fav
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 3 December 2012 13:26 (eleven years ago) link
early radio performance, january 1985, they're like 18 years old
http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Throwing_Muses/Live_on_Noise_from_Neville_1985/
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
yeah! very cool, just saw that, too...didn't know they were doing "not too soon" that early...
― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 April 2013 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
pretty crazy how deeply original they were right off the bat.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 April 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
very true. I think they started off as very original and got progressively less so after the first few albums.
― Moodles, Wednesday, 10 April 2013 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
I'm a big fan of the first demo + album but could never get into anything after that
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Friday, 12 April 2013 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
Killer stuff, ty e3
― que sera sriracha (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 12 April 2013 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
my pleasure
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Friday, 12 April 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
^ Was just going to post that link. Wow, this rules!
― john. a resident of chicago., Thursday, 18 April 2013 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
They're baaack!
Can't wait for this. New song sounds pretty good on firts listen, nice and jittery. Hersh sounding like herself.
http://www.throwingmuses.com/#
― Mule, Monday, 2 September 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
Another story and song here.
http://www.spin.com/#articles/throwing-muses-purgatory-paradise-new-album-art-book-sleepwalking-1-sunray-venus/
― nickn, Friday, 20 September 2013 07:47 (ten years ago) link
new album(s) are pretty great.
― akm, Friday, 15 November 2013 21:39 (ten years ago) link
Love the single.
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 15 November 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
On first listen, it's a great album surrounded by weaker material.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 15 November 2013 22:24 (ten years ago) link
A few weeks ago, KH launched the record (sans other Muses, Bernard having broken his thumb) - fairly incredibly - at my local SE London bookshop, at about 12 hours' notice. Daniel Kitson (celebrated stand-up/storyteller and fellow Crystal Palace resident) was the first person in the world to own a copy. (I guess I was about the 12th!) She did another pop-up show at a north London bookshop the following night before a Rough Trade East appearance a few days later.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7457/10465482414_ed81697de4_z.jpg
― Michael Jones, Friday, 15 November 2013 23:28 (ten years ago) link
<3 <3 <3
― sleeve, Friday, 15 November 2013 23:31 (ten years ago) link
wow..time..
― nostormo, Friday, 15 November 2013 23:43 (ten years ago) link
There are some incredible songs on the new album - just hidden in there...
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 28 November 2013 05:22 (ten years ago) link
I have still not managed to make it through this album without getting distracted. If anyone wanted to do an edited version, I'd be very appreciative!
― dlp9001, Monday, 30 March 2015 22:41 (nine years ago) link
not sure what sort of "edited" you mean but a lot of these tracks originally appeared in one piece as kristin's solo _crooked_ demos
― katherine, Monday, 30 March 2015 22:43 (nine years ago) link
http://kristinhersh.cashmusic.org/speedbath/
― katherine, Monday, 30 March 2015 22:44 (nine years ago) link
"morning birds" is so good
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 5 August 2015 01:29 (eight years ago) link
there's no news (well, kristin is releasing a book, but no band news) but still
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Wednesday, 5 August 2015 01:32 (eight years ago) link
thanks for that link above!
― sleeve, Wednesday, 5 August 2015 01:34 (eight years ago) link
University vs. Limbo is a poll I make in my mind from time to time. Both records kick so much ass.
― rip van wanko, Wednesday, 5 August 2015 03:28 (eight years ago) link
I'd pick Limbo, it just has this incredible swagger.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 5 August 2015 21:59 (eight years ago) link
University has quietly turned into one of my favorite '90s records. I don't even mind Hersh's wah-wah guitar.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 February 2016 00:24 (eight years ago) link
I like the wah! Yeah university is probably the muses record I reach for most often.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 February 2016 00:48 (eight years ago) link
Saw the Muses (Kristin Hersh, David Narcizo and Fred Abong) play a great set Saturday as part of the band's induction into the Rhode Island Music Hall of Fame. From sweet hellos to a primal scream session in five seconds flat.
― Jazzbo, Monday, 1 May 2017 13:32 (six years ago) link
Wish In A Doghouse was more widely available on cd, it's quite a package and if I knew about it years ago maybe I would have all their albums by now.
This band always seemed well stocked in music shops but they don't get nearly enough chat.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 11 August 2018 15:19 (five years ago) link
Had a look in Fopp and there's only a damn compilation. Maybe the death knell for bands like this in psychical stores? I'll have to check HMV soon because I grudgingly use the internet shops when I remember there being piles of albums on the shelves.
One day several years ago I went to most of the music shops in Glasgow looking for Kate Bush albums and could hardly find anything. It must have been a freak occurrence.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 1 September 2018 17:23 (five years ago) link
I'll never stop regretting selling off my vinyl copies of The Fat Skier and House Tornado back when I was a stupid teen.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 1 September 2018 17:44 (five years ago) link
they're still cheap on Discogs, if that helps
― sleeve, Saturday, 1 September 2018 17:56 (five years ago) link
Maybe, I haven't ever messed around with buying stuff ondiscos, but there's a bunch of vinyl stuff I'd like to find for an affordable price. I probably should try it out.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 1 September 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link
For the most part, I've had success on Discogs. But more recently, I've run into sellers that accept the order only to inform me a week (or more) later that they actually don't have the item. Refunds every time, but it just strikes me as odd that, of my last five orders on there (from completely different sellers), three have resulted in this scenario. Granted, it's not like I order that often; maybe once every four months or so. So, I don't know, maybe a fluke. Just seems weird.
Otherwise, yes: buy House Tornado! It's a wonderful album.
― outside, you're never alone. (Austin), Saturday, 1 September 2018 19:56 (five years ago) link
True, I still listen to it fairly regularly. My interest in the Muses fell off after that as they moved in a more conventional rock direction.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 1 September 2018 20:00 (five years ago) link
I have In A Doghouse which compiles a lot of the early stuff but I'm just seeing it for £25 on Amazon. Seems to be a bit cheaper on discogs.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 1 September 2018 20:11 (five years ago) link
In a Doghouse is very highly recommended; the first album and the coinciding EP with a ton of extras.
― outside, you're never alone. (Austin), Sunday, 2 September 2018 02:40 (five years ago) link
the two disc version with the early demos >>>>
― boxedjoy, Sunday, 2 September 2018 19:06 (five years ago) link
Just scored In a Doghouse for 20 bux U.S.on ebay. I've given several of TM's lps a chance over the years but it's the earliest stuff that really resonates.
― VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Sunday, 2 September 2018 22:34 (five years ago) link
Glad i brought it up, it has some great stuff on it.
Wonder if the lps will see any further reissue?
& I have Kirsten's first book Paradoxical Undressing floating around the bedroom waiting to be read still.
― Stevolende, Sunday, 2 September 2018 22:45 (five years ago) link
Yeah steveo thanks much. I hadnt really thought about them in prolly 20some years (i'm 53!). But was inspired by yr post to spring for that compilation. That book sounds intriguing also. I'm not anti-donnely but kristin is the genius in that band, period. For me anyway
― VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Sunday, 2 September 2018 23:12 (five years ago) link
the book is amazing
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 07:49 (five years ago) link
Yes read it! Published as Rat Girl in the US. Kristin Hersh is as good a writer as she is a, uh, songwriter. Don't Suck, Don't Die is also great, about her friendship with Vic Chesnutt.
― com rad erry red flag (f. hazel), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 14:53 (five years ago) link
I really enjoyed Rat Girl, the descriptions of her synesthesia were really interesting
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 15:01 (five years ago) link
The mighty Chris O'Leary studies them in his new project:
https://64quartets.wordpress.com/2019/07/02/2-throwing-muses/
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 2 July 2019 18:07 (four years ago) link
did i ever tell u guys about meeting Kristin????she was hands down the most gracious poet i've ever had the chance to meet i went up to her so timidly at the end of one of her showsshe was just incredibly kind.
― surm, Tuesday, 2 July 2019 18:13 (four years ago) link
(i'm sure i did tell u but it feels good to be able to brag about it again)
― surm, Tuesday, 2 July 2019 18:16 (four years ago) link
wow, that article is nice deep dive, cheers Ned
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 2 July 2019 21:37 (four years ago) link
yep great article, thanks for posting.
― thomasintrouble, Tuesday, 2 July 2019 21:49 (four years ago) link
great images too!
― boxedjoy, Tuesday, 2 July 2019 22:03 (four years ago) link
never heard those 1984 demos!
some of the only music so overwhelming that all forebrained attempts to reverse engineer how they arrived / performed the music fail. even now decades later, the technician always surrenders to how fucking amazing this music is
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 02:15 (four years ago) link
at least I could try to figure out the piano songs like 'walking in the dark', but I remember trying to figure out 'fish' on keyboards once. that was funny that I tried that
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 02:17 (four years ago) link
man, I love "Two Step."
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 02:18 (four years ago) link
xps Milton "In The Doghouse" is essential, yeah
really wish they'd reissue this:
https://www.discogs.com/Throwing-Muses-Throwing-Muses-EP/release/1435252
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 03:07 (four years ago) link
and I never knew "The Letter" dates from that period, so that's why it gives me chills
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 03:08 (four years ago) link
I knew "Doghouse" & the 7", but not the '84 demos linked in the article! amazing that Donelly had written 'Not Too Soon' that early
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 03:25 (four years ago) link
I have a long, long interview I did with Dave Narcizo back in 1994 and I don't quite know what to do with it - we published it in our little fanzine but it's completely obscure. He was the friendliest guy - blew out our allotted 20 minute interview to over an hour, once he realised I really knew the band's stuff - and at the show I travelled to in Melbourne, welcomed me like a friend when I crept up and said "I did that long phone interview." He invited my friend and I to the band room after the show, even gave us beers from the rider, I remember Bernard opening them on the edge of the table. I was too overwhelmed to talk to Kristin but she and Billy were friendly - pretty tired tho. Vivid memory from the show of K's electric blue eyes fixed on a point at infinity while she swayed around her Strat and its cowgirl decal.
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 03:29 (four years ago) link
dirt is on the floor is one of my favorite deep cuts, glad to see it mentioned
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 04:49 (four years ago) link
Me to Dave Narcizo in the mid-'80s, shortly before the Muses were to play at the Blue Pelican, a now-defunct club in Newport, RI: "Let me buy you a drink."Dave: "I'm not legal yet."
― Jazzbo, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 15:32 (four years ago) link
Pretty sure I was at that spring 1985 show at the Living Room.
― Jazzbo, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 15:35 (four years ago) link
New album in May!
https://throwingmuses.bandcamp.com/album/sun-racket
― Jeff W, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 19:50 (four years ago) link
excellent news! Hersh's recent solo stuff isn't clicking with me, I've been digging the Tanya Donnelly Swan Song Series though
― avellano medio Inglés (f. hazel), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 21:07 (four years ago) link
New album is out! Who else is listening?
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 6 September 2020 01:49 (three years ago) link
just picked it up from my office mailbox today!
― avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Sunday, 6 September 2020 02:19 (three years ago) link
Always thankful for new Muses. The usual curve so far: hard to get a handle on the songs at first, but struck by all the awesome sounds.
― geoffreyess, Sunday, 6 September 2020 18:54 (three years ago) link
seems to have a kind of Red Heaven vibe
― avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Sunday, 6 September 2020 18:54 (three years ago) link
Starts off with a bang, "Dark Blue" has a great warped feeling. I should cherry-pick the best bits from their 3 albums this century.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 8 September 2020 20:56 (three years ago) link
The 2003 self-title is an untouchable classic front-to-back. It's awful to say but Kristin's blown-out voice is almost too uncomfortable for me to listen to now, which is so unfair because she's still writing great stuff.
― assert (MatthewK), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 21:16 (three years ago) link
The current voice does not bother me much; maybe even on the contrary, it is kinda correct that it is her in this era out of several. What was heartening to me at a cursory listen to this latest album was that it did not share that weird unlistenableness production- or mastering-wise that the 2018 solo album had that (awful to say) (in spite of still great writing) had me seriously doubting her ears.
― anatol_merklich, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 21:55 (three years ago) link
hm, her voice just seems to have aged in the way I'd expect it to. Milk at McDonalds, for instance, she doesn't sound that ragged at all. Anyway, this is a great album and in fact, I'd be hard pressed to name one single thing she has released that isn't great. She's just about the most consistent artist I listen to.
― akm, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 22:51 (three years ago) link
I was surprised at how much I liked the new album after hearing at at one of Mr Tim Burgess's Twitter listening parties - to my jaded ears it sounded like it had the energy of an excting new band, not someone whose been on the go for a zillion years. I went and bought my own copy and I like it.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 22 October 2020 20:15 (three years ago) link
I like Michael Jones' post from nine years ago that the order you hear the albums in is important and makes a big difference. I was really captivated by the first album, and not as much by the rest.
thought Christgau's review of it was really incisive and funny, one of his most memorable, but it also really disappointed me (and made me doubt his future reviews) because I didn't see the album that way at all:
"When friends turn psychotic, I withdraw. I haven't found black leotards sexy since I broke up with Sheila in 1962. I'm rarely persuaded that verbal dissociation reflects any social problems but the poet's own. So while I'm happy to grant the originality and even craft of Kristen Hersh's quavery free-form folk-punk, I'd do the same for the art of H.P. Lovecraft, Anaïs Nin, or Diamanda Galas. Fans of whom will pay more mind to Hersh's buzz than I do"
― Dan S, Friday, 23 October 2020 00:04 (three years ago) link
I find that Xgau review to be mean spirited and sexist tbh
love that 1st LP though
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Friday, 23 October 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link
every now and then i wonder if i should give xgau another chance and then i see one of his reviews quoted here and i'm reminded why i haven't
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 23 October 2020 00:16 (three years ago) link
yup
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Friday, 23 October 2020 00:18 (three years ago) link
This interview is terrific: https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/throwing-muses-kristin-hersh-on-the-music-that-made-her/
― Video Drama (morrisp), Thursday, 29 October 2020 06:49 (three years ago) link
TM = Ut for lightweights― mark s, Monday, July 2, 2001 8:00 PM (nineteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink
even xgau was not this wrong
― rip van wanko, Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:19 (three years ago) link
Ha ha. 19 years later, Mark S's throwaway line still sticks in my head!
Happy to be a lightweight.
― Michael Jones, Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:14 (three years ago) link
This is kind of following on from me talking about major labels on the Jawbreaker thread but I'm curious about Hersh in that interview being angry about signing to 4AD, but with Throwing Muses, her solo stuff and one 50 Foot Wave release, she wasn't finished with them until about a decade ago.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 18:36 (three years ago) link
I’ve never heard her say a bad word about 4AD; wasn’t it signing to Warners (albeit encouraged by Ivo) in the US that was the disastrous thing?
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 2 February 2021 21:30 (three years ago) link
correct
― Überschadenfreude (sleeve), Tuesday, 2 February 2021 21:40 (three years ago) link
KH is not exactly unsung, but still a bit surprising to me how relatively less talked about she an TH is, compared to, say, the Deal sisters.
― Mule, Saturday, 15 May 2021 12:20 (two years ago) link
and* TH
what is TH
― akm, Sunday, 16 May 2021 17:00 (two years ago) link
tanya honnely?
throwing huses
Jesus, sorry. Giant brainfart. T Muses, not T Donelly.
― Mule, Sunday, 16 May 2021 18:49 (two years ago) link
back on the 2003 self-title this afternoon, what a blast, maybe my favourite Muses? surely nottime changes on "Solar Dip" are absolutely core to this band
― assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 11 August 2022 03:50 (one year ago) link
Yes! The 2003 s/t is maybe my favourite album of theirs since Leslie left. The rest of the power trio era is too shiny but this is the right kind of heavy and sunburnt raw. It feels like a drawn-out fight on one long too-hot afternoon. I find it hard to tell the songs apart but I get little sticky bitchy lines from them in my head all the time: "Here's a big fat aspirin, maybe you'll choke - that's not funny." "I don't like you any more than you know, I still like you too much." "I think your nose is broken, but you mouth is working." She's such a great writer and I think that gets kind of lost in the interpretations (hers too) of so much of her work as instinctive.
It's a shame this album seems to have slipped out of view, I feel like I never see Hersh talking about this time or any of these songs. I wonder if they are a snapshot of a period in her previous marriage she wouldn't want to go back to.
― verhexen, Friday, 12 August 2022 16:17 (one year ago) link
on a related note, her recent cover of "Like A Hurricane" totally rules
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Friday, 12 August 2022 16:23 (one year ago) link
perfect description, verhexen!
― assert (matttkkkk), Friday, 12 August 2022 23:46 (one year ago) link
also I mis-hear the chorus of “Pandora’s Box” as “milk-fed shithead” which is an insult I treasure; the real lines “your milk-fed shaved head / you move like an insect” are fantastic too
― assert (matttkkkk), Friday, 12 August 2022 23:48 (one year ago) link
was Tanya Donelly's "The Party" ever released anywhere except the the Muses debut 7"? doesn't seem like it...
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Friday, 12 August 2022 23:54 (one year ago) link
nope, nor adapted into anything else that I know of
― assert (matttkkkk), Saturday, 13 August 2022 00:45 (one year ago) link
A boy was tangled in his bike foreverA girl was missing two fingersGerry Ann was confusedMr. Huberty had a gun in his headSo I sit up late in the morning and ask myself againHow do they kill children?And why do I want to die?
― Mule, Thursday, 9 February 2023 00:09 (one year ago) link
written at age 18 iirc, just amazing
― sleeve, Thursday, 9 February 2023 00:19 (one year ago) link
incredible song. love that album so much
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Thursday, 9 February 2023 00:35 (one year ago) link
all time opening couplet
"I could be a smack freakand hate societyI could hate Godand blame dad"
― sleeve, Thursday, 9 February 2023 00:46 (one year ago) link
Just an astounding song. The emotional power blows you away. Such an incredible band.
― Mule, Thursday, 9 February 2023 06:43 (one year ago) link
A shout out to Leslie Langston’s bass play on the early albums as well. Such melodic lines.
― Mule, Thursday, 9 February 2023 06:45 (one year ago) link
I think she's a senior social worker in MA these days!Yep: https://medical.mit.edu/find-a-provider/leslie-langstonExtraordinary player, fully half the appeal of the Muses' early records to me.
― assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 9 February 2023 07:01 (one year ago) link
That’s awesome.
― Mule, Thursday, 9 February 2023 07:08 (one year ago) link
I watched some of those YouTube videos where the video maker plays along with records on his bass, and the guy tackled a couple of early Muses songs. Ofc it was fun to hear the bassline brought out front, but also: iirc he freely admitted it was a bit puzzling and hard, and LL came along in the comment field going something like "hi! the reason that bit doesn't quite work is because you need to use the thumb from the top of the fretboard at the same time you see". This was couple of years ago or something?
― anatol_merklich, Thursday, 9 February 2023 07:53 (one year ago) link
Ha, that’s excellent. Just a natural, free-floating coolness to these guys.
― Mule, Thursday, 9 February 2023 08:20 (one year ago) link
In the mid 90s I interviewed them for a no-circulation music zine - in Australia - and when they toured they invited me and a friend to the band room after, gave us drinks and cigarettes, Bernie showed me how to open a bottle using another bottle … it was a blast and they were such nice folks. K was a bit reserved after delivering a huge show but I probably would have passed out if I’d talked to her.
― assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 9 February 2023 09:44 (one year ago) link
Fun fact: I played "Hate My Way" for my family on or about Xmas day, from my phone. In boring moments we've developed a game where one nominates "the best song ever", choosing something fresh each time. This might have been the first time there were demands that such a selection be turned off lol.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Thursday, 9 February 2023 10:18 (one year ago) link
jesus christ I told my same little fan boy story twice in the same thread, wow cool guy
― assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 9 February 2023 12:27 (one year ago) link
I love K. Hersh pretty much across the board. Saw her a couple years ago with Bob Mould and she remains a compelling presence.
For Muses particularly, of course yes to University ("Bright Yellow Gun" already mentioned upthread) but for many persons of my age and class and temperament, there is an iconic scene in Empire Records set to the song "Snakeface." It is a memorable one.
― Auf Der Martini (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 9 February 2023 13:00 (one year ago) link
the next song's opening line is right up there too.
"He won't ride inCars anymoreIt reminds him ofBlowjobs"
― stirmonster, Thursday, 9 February 2023 14:55 (one year ago) link
xp I've also thought "Hate My Way" is the "best song ever" at times, but it's definitely something that would freak out normies.
I think Limbo is their best album after the debut. It's always been underrated coming after University, made worse by its absence from streaming due to being on Ryko. It has my favorite rhythm guitar tone ever-- shimmery, surfy, just perfect
― J. Sam, Thursday, 9 February 2023 16:41 (one year ago) link
My dad brought Limbo home to me from a work trip to Chicago (we lived in Norway) when I was 12, after an older cousin had bought University for my birthday the year before. Those records (as well as Doolittle, which the same cousin bought me for Xmas the same year) rewired my brain.
― Mule, Thursday, 9 February 2023 17:01 (one year ago) link
My college station played "Bright Yellow Gun" a few times in early '95 (approximately as much as they played Belly's "Seal My Fate"), but it's hard to tell what their profile was like. Was University a thing in alterna-music circles?
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 February 2023 17:07 (one year ago) link
J. Sam otm re the guitars on Limbo. The solo on The Field, god yes.
― Mule, Thursday, 9 February 2023 17:35 (one year ago) link
Was University a thing in alterna-music circles?
It certainly was in the Boston area, lots of play on WFNX.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 9 February 2023 17:44 (one year ago) link
seems like it got a decent promotional push — makes sense since Belly and the Breeders had broken through to some extent. i saw a pretty under-attended show on the University tour though.
― tylerw, Thursday, 9 February 2023 17:48 (one year ago) link
University came right after Belly/Breeders for me and was just what I needed. I vividly remember the big Rolling Stone story on Throwing Muses, with its, uh, provocative photos (that few magazines would dare to stage now).
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 9 February 2023 20:46 (one year ago) link
I miss the all-consuming fervour I used to feel for this band
― assert (matttkkkk), Tuesday, 10 October 2023 06:30 (six months ago) link
The go listen to their entire catalog in a row, it'll reignite it.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 22:22 (six months ago) link
I found Red Heaven in a pawn shop and tried it because I knew there was some connection to Belly, who I was a big fan of. “Pearl” won me over big time.
― Cow_Art, Wednesday, 11 October 2023 00:57 (six months ago) link
It's a great song. I recommend their 2003 self-title for more of that giant-wave vibe.
― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 11 October 2023 04:28 (six months ago) link
Limbo is the last one that I spent time with, but I don't remember a lot of it. University was the big one for me, and the first one. I had a shirt with a bright yellow gun on it which I probably wouldn't wear today.
Saw Kristin and Vic Chesnutt in Atlanta. If I remember right, they both had acoustic guitars and would go back and forth, trading songs. Very, very good.
― Cow_Art, Wednesday, 11 October 2023 06:47 (six months ago) link
I had the same shirt and thoughtlessly put it on a few days after the Port Arthur gun massacre (which was near my city). Had to retreat into a bathroom and flip it inside out when I realised the looks were not from Throwing Muses fans.
― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 11 October 2023 07:03 (six months ago) link
So I sit up late in the morningAnd ask myself againHow do they kill children?And why do I wanna die?They can no longer moveI can no longer be still
― Mule, Tuesday, 17 October 2023 13:35 (six months ago) link
^chills down the spine at that part
― J. Sam, Tuesday, 17 October 2023 19:09 (six months ago) link
am down with a Throwing Muses listening thread
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2023 20:06 (six months ago) link
yes please
― verhexen, Wednesday, 18 October 2023 21:09 (six months ago) link
I don't know if the "Mr. Huberty" reference in "Hate My Way" is common knowledge (I only learned about it a few years ago), but he's the man responsible for a 1984 mass shooting at a McDonald's in California:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald%27s_massacreThis song still rattles me every time I listen to it, after 30+ years...
― ernestp, Thursday, 19 October 2023 22:46 (six months ago) link
Matt I think I was at that 94 show too - there was merch that I recall was a tomato or apple on the front of the tshirt? And I was mad I couldnt buy one cos I hadn't brought any extra money with me (which seems bonkers but in those days I didnt drink).
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 20 October 2023 22:16 (six months ago) link
I also have the red bright yello gun tshirt ha.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 20 October 2023 22:17 (six months ago) link
hi guys, this revive made me dig out my old external drive so i could hear limbo again. thank you for the discussion and reminder of this masterpiece! it's such a monolithic album of 90s indie-ness and every goddamn song is arranged so incredibly perfect. it rocks out, it does ballads, classic jangly chamber pop, and a whole lot of heart. the way a lot of the songs just drop and change direction is so disorienting and exhilarating —— i could kiss you for remembering my address for crying out loud. i know i talk a big mess about the first album being kristin's definitive statement (and i probably will ride with that in the end); but if that album was unrefined, unfiltered, unadulterated chaotic kristin, limbo is all of those things polished over and made to be the best versions of themselves. i used to ride hard for "tar kissers" and swore up and down that was the pinnacle of this era. but listening now, i have at least 5 tracks that i could see saying the same exact thing about (and none of them are "tar kissers" — though that one still smashes). i was wanting to pick a song to put on my radio station playlist, but i can't narrow it down further than half of the damn album! is limbo her best work? dunno, but it sounds better than ever.
(and it has one of the prettiest/best hidden tracks ever with "white bikini sand")
i had some extras saved on that drive and i wanted to play you guys the demo of "serene" (retitled here "serene swing") so i had to upload it to youtube—https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c94BhagMCP4
i guess if forced to pick a single favorite track right now, it's definitely "serene." the original album version is pretty nice chamber pop and one of the album's calmest moments. "serene swing" though — !!?!?! clattering and just the complete opposite of everything about the finished version. really dig the crazy horse vibes. this fucking woman. what an absolute titan.
― "another slice of death, please." (Austin), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 20:24 (five months ago) link
i have not the language to convey what i'm saying here so i'm just going to spit—
that transition from "shark" to "white bikini sand" just has something so entirely period specific to it. like there's certain media or technology that we sometimes say, "well that could have only worked in the (time period)." and i think about that transition "shark" is ultimately a rewarding song, but it's noisy, kind of dissonant. it ends on a long fadeout, an unsure coda. then "white bikini sand" comes in and is nothing but steady pleasant vibes. and it works so perfectly that the only cliche i can come up with is that it only would worked in the 90s.
― "another slice of death, please." (Austin), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 20:35 (five months ago) link
I love Limbo too, it hit hard after a run of slightly diminishing, more cluttered albums and they came back ripped and focused as a trio. Everything about this record is a reinvention, down to the artwork, and I fell in love with them all over. Favourite is probably the title track, so apocalyptic and off-kilter, but it's ALL gold. Also loved the fast version of Teller they played on the tour.
― assert (matttkkkk), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 23:51 (five months ago) link
slightly disappointed that, of all the times i've seen kristin in all of her various roles, they've never played anything from limbo.
― "another slice of death, please." (Austin), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 00:39 (five months ago) link
Ignore my stupidity, of course University was a trio album as well, but Limbo was much gnarlier and more muscular.
― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 00:41 (five months ago) link
def feels like a lost album these days (so does the kind of contemporaneous bob mould self titled album on ryko)
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 00:42 (five months ago) link
also hi again, sorry for tangent--
if you like the more orchestrated, multi-parted beach boys-esque turns mid song, and more of kristin's wry, yowling narratives and you've never dug into her albums sky motel and sunny border blue, do yourself a favor and visit/revisit. it's almost like an epic spiritual trilogy in hindsight -- that was basically her trajectory from 96-02: limbo-> sky motel-> sunny border blue. each album gets a bit more reflective and rootsy until sunny border blue contains a few songs about her old band and ends with pure catharsis on "listerine." gives me chills just thinking about it. anyway, yeah: those albums maybe don't ROCK as hard, but are definitely part of the same universe as limbo. highly recommended.
― "another slice of death, please." (Austin), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 00:56 (five months ago) link
jeez she has a new album and I didn't even know
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 01:25 (five months ago) link
(Clear Pond Road released on May 30th)