Midnight Oil: Classic or G'dud!

ubiquitous down here in late 70s - early 80s and, i suppose, the acceptable face of stadium style rock. i couldn't stand them but, at least, they weren't Inxs.

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200_web/drp100/p151/p15173bocj2.jpg

I'm glad Garrett's decided to stop talking the talk but keeping walking the walk. Though I don't want to see him do that funny walk ever again.

* -- That's "The Angels" to all you marsupials in the land downunder.

Having a video does not equate with having a "hit". Ask John Q. Public on the street to name a Midnight Oil song, and if they can do it, it'll invariably be "Beds Are Burning." Yes, they had other songs (so did Devo), but the only one anyone seems to remember is that one.

nope, not SURE -- that's why I said "I think." I mean, I've never seen them mention it in an interview. But there's definitely some stuff on those Angels albums that sounds proto-Midnight-Oil to me.

Best two albums: Head Injuries (1979) and Place Without a Postcard (1981) -- neither of which saw a US release until 1990, after many people quit caring about the Oils at all.

See, that's why I miss your music writing Lee.

Remember when that Screaming Blue Messiahs dude was around and it seemed like bald people were about to seize control?

I've never been a fan of them much, but the Guitarist (called 'Bones'), is a family friend of a friend of mine, so I got back stage passes to what turned out to be their last show at The Forum in Melbourne late last year.

Garret gave a big speech at the Feb 14 Anti-War Rally in Melb (200,000), one day before the Feb 15 rallies the world over. So yeeea...

yeah i think this album is the best set of tunes, and heavy only in a very artful way -- the production emphasises the subtle and non-repetetive elements -- i still love it though i know it completley (and the only song that sucks would be called "US Forces")

ok they dumbed down later for all their big arena hits (and when i saw them live there was just one good song guitar solo etc. in the whole show, in the encore, v. dissapointing) but they'd changed for u2 type demographic by then

CLASSIC!!! I mean, who else dances like Peter Garrett! haha

The Oil's 1979-1985 albums are absolute cult classics down here in OZ. Some of the songs on 'Red Sails...' are like nothing I've ever heard before, like 'When the Generals Talk' and that huge explosion of beautiful sound at the end of 'Kosciuscko'! Brilliant! My favourite Aussie band, bloody legends.

http://www.alp.org.au/people/nsw/garrett_peter.php

(they did seem to think that the story was funny, so bully for them for having a sense of humor.)

10,9,8... = OK Computer
Red Sails = Kid A

fucking classic, until the bottom fell out with that tired-ass-sounding blue sky mining.

That's great.

Similar to Colin Hay's story about someone requesting the "one about the goats".

My favourite track is "no time for games" from the Bird Noises EP.

I think the political stuff and the rock gelled well for them.

The drummer (Rob Hirst?) is phenomenal too, one particular huge solo on Power in the Passion.

I'd have liked Blue Sky Mining to have been recorded with less gloss, but a lot of the songs on there are good and therefore a keeper. The only studio album of theirs I don't care if I ever hear again is Redneck Wonderland... it had no ambition, no direction, no anything. Capricornia was a commendable swan song, though.

"Stars Of Warburton" sounded really nice today. BSM has aged a little better these days (and D&D probably hasn't)

Dud. I threw on Diesel And Dust the other day and it was basically mediocre "college rock" with some guy obnoxiously yelling vague platitudes or suggesting we give the land back to the aborigines. "Sometimes" worked the best as far as the vague platitudes go. I need to listen to my copies of Blue Sky Mining and Earth Sun And Moon to see if they've aged just as horribly. And every time I see them on VH1 Classic they scare me even more.
I'm glad Garrett's decided to stop talking the talk but keeping walking the walk. Though I don't want to see him do that funny walk ever again.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, March 17, 2003 5:12 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark

this is perhaps Miccio's most perceptive post ever.

I'd disagree. D&D really sort of embraces its own timeframe without becoming a victim of it. On the other hand, I hear BSM and all I hear (aside from a few good songs) is 19901990199019901990!

with garrett possibly going onto some sort of leftist politics career (although i haven't seen him involved in anything yet)

innocent times

thing the naysayers have to account for is that they sorta rocked, once upon a time.

Red Sails is far and away my favorite Oils record (and that guitar solo in "Best of Both Worlds" melts my cerebellum).

classic. the dead heart should be the national anthem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTGx59dm3XY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmHco4ie9EE

butts are burning

Watching the Capitol set from the Best of Both Worlds dvd on youtube. So damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyqWoq2STjw&list=PL92319EECC1754042

Man, I forget sometimes how insane this band was. That's some nearly-Clash-level shit there.

They don't get their due, at least Stateside. A truly great rock band.

Man, I just got to "Armistice Day" and my god does it rule.

It's a shame that they didn't really break big in the US until their music was on the downswing with D&D, but I can't imagine radio accommodating anything from 10,9,8 or Red Sails. Those records still sound like they're from the future.

Yup. And those early records have aged much better than the crossover trio of Diesel and Dust, Blue Sky Mining and Earth and Sun and Moon. Oddly enough, Breathe sounds better now than it did in 1996.

I love everything up to and including Earth and Sun and Moon. Got no problem with the crossover trio because the songwriting is sooooo sharp, and since 10-1 and Red Sails are so absolutely bonkers, I can't imagine the band had any choice but to reign things in.

Need to relisten to Breathe et al again.

I got off the bus after BSM, one of the most disappointing records I've ever heard. But I was intrigued by the E&S&M singles (as well as their SNL appearance that year). I should probably get caught up.

And the drum sound on Red Sails is one of the most grippingly unique I've ever heard. That whole record's production is so completely spooky.

Diesel remains a good record, but I definitely got off the bus for a while at Blue Sky Mining. Breathe is their best record of the 90s, and then Capricornia was a respectable bow out. BSM, ESM and Redneck Wonderland are all embarrassing.

I like the singles from the three crossover records, but I'm never going to pull them out ahead of the 1980-85 LPs and EPs. Redneck Wonderland is sad, sad stuff. Didn't even have decent singles.

Huh I really like BSM and ESM. What's wrong with them?

I mean, this is great, imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loX2cvuxMFU&feature=kp

Or this, pretty much classic late-period MO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdvhiHryIRA

yup, good singles. Bit of a limp album, though.

What are the bad songs on those albums?

The cardinal sin is the production, but there are duff songs a plenty - off the top of my head, "Bedlam Bridge", "Mountains of Burma" and the "Shakers" song on the second side of Blue Sky Mine, "Renaissance Man", the title track and "Now or Never Land" on Earth and Sun and Moon. I'm sure I'd be able to pick out several more mediocre to bad songs if I skimmed through them.

When you compare this to the pre-US breakthrough years, it's amazing how many unmemorable to bad songs those records contain. From 80-85 there are probably about ten in total, but these two albums have 6-8 I'd rather never hear again.

Yeah, this. I actually didn't like anything off BSM; when I heard the single I thought, "I hope this is the worst song on the record." They'd lost all sense of danger and risk

Yeah, maybe they lost the sense of danger and risk, but I still like the songs. I mean, I think they're nothing on the early stuff, but they're still good records. But then, I listen to Combat Rock as much or more than I listen to most Clash records.

I dunno, I don't even mind the production on those later records, though BSM and ESM are sort of at opposite ends of those extremes, from clinical to this weird ramshackle approach, both so odd given the chaos and invention of the early years . What's super weird is that Nick Launay, who did 10-1 and Red Sails, also did ESM, but it sounds so different from that.

I always thought this was a cool song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LlMGBZCtXI&feature=kp

"antarctica" is one of the keepers, for sure. Total jam.

Blue Sky Mining was a total “oof, you trying to be U2?” getting-off-the-bus move for me. BUT at the secret reunion show at some leagues club in 2005, where I went in happy to not even hear anything post-Species Deceases, totally thought while getting buffetted in the mosh “hey even these Blue Sky Mining songs are fucking killing it”

That's because the songs are good!

I haven't listened to Breathe since it came out, but fwiw it was produced by Lanois-associate Malcolm Burn. That to me was a red flag announcing what the band was after. But I have no recollection of what that album sounds like.

it's because the band were on FIRE

“hey even these Blue Sky Mining songs are fucking killing it”

Yeah, I could totally see those songs working much better live. The production on that record was so weak.

Man, "Diesel and Dust" may be a perfectly sequenced record.

Indeed!

So happy these guys reunited, so psyched to see them again next week. Listening to the early records again, man, they're just so ... weird. Just the way they're constructed/produced/played/arranged/mixed. Sound like nothing else, really.

Killed it last night. Incredible show. Played "10-1" in its entirety - just because - plus many of the usual suspects.

A friend of mine flew from St. Paul just for that show, said it awesome. I like that they did 10-1 just for the hell of it, not like that was the whole peg for the tour or anything. (Def one of their best albums too, good call.)

Yeah, it was one of the best shows I've seen in months. And remarkably, I think they could have swapped out 2/3rds of the songs and been just as great.

I glanced at some of the setlists, and yow, they're playing entirely different sets from night to night! Seems like at least one new song -- new to this tour, that is -- is played each night.

Got my oil cans. Packaging is ace.

I think I read that by the end of the tour they're hoping to have played everything, more or less. Which given how airtight the group is is really impressive!

Would be funny if they slipped in "Wharf Rat" on one of these dates.

"Midnight Oil 1984" documentary in cinemas now, out on DVD soon

It’s time to revisit the year that would ultimately make (and almost break) one of Australia’s most important rock bands. As they embark on a relentless national tour for their electrifying album “Red Sails in the Sunset”, Midnight Oil lead singer Peter Garrett has decided to run for a seat in the Australian Senate. The band is abruptly plunged into an blistering concoction of rock and politics that will play out across concert stages and newspaper headlines. With previously unseen clips from some of the rockers’ most memorable shows, behind-the-scenes footage and candid interviews with the band, Midnight Oil 1984 is the highly-anticipated window into a politically galvanised era and the sweat-soaked music that embodied it.

More than three decades in the making, this stunning documentary is a must-see for lifelong devotees and new fans alike. With a band on the cusp of international fame and a lead singer torn between his adoring audience and moral responsibilities, Midnight Oil 1984 offers unprecedented access to an explosive period in Australian cultural history.

oooh

the same thing that happened to yahoo serious, vegemite, and koala blues.

Not entirely sure what fate these all had in common.

also yet to be revealed which Split Enz songs Nick Launay produced, or why it's extremely perceptive to sneer at native title.

Quite a lot of sneering at other countries generally in March 2003. Though some Ilxors rarely need an excuse.

Anyway, the documentary looks v interesting.

Can't wait to see that. Always felt 10, 9, 8 and Red Sails were their peak records. I listened to those records obsessively in high school.

Having announced she'll never tour Australia again, Patti Smith is now regularly playing Beds Are Burning live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoWfnFJ52rc

Midnight Oil fans around the world will finally get to hear a brand new song from the band on August 7 with the release of ‘Gadigal Land’. The following night a special ‘in studio’ video of the song will make its world premiere during the National Indigenous Music Awards (https://nima.musicnt.com.au/) telecast on NITV from 7pm AEST and simulcast across the country on Double J, National Indigenous Radio Service, TEABBA, Facebook, Youtube and Twitter.

The song takes its name from Sydney’s traditional owners, many of whom continue to live in the city. The Gadigal (also sometimes spelt “Cadigal”) lands include what is now the CBD plus areas from South Head through to the inner west. ‘Gadigal Land’ is a provocative recount of what happened in this place, and elsewhere in Australia, since 1788.

This single is the first new music from ‘the Oils’ in nearly 20 years. It features special contributions by vocalists Kaleena Briggs, Bunna Lawrie, Dan Sultan plus a lyrical section written and delivered by Gadigal poet, Joel Davison. Like all the band’s new recordings it was produced by long-time collaborator Warne Livesey who also helmed legendary Midnight Oil albums, DIESEL & DUST, BLUE SKY MINING and CAPRICORNIA.

The incendiary rock track is drawn from THE MAKARRATA PROJECT - a themed mini-album of collaborations with Indigenous artists. Midnight Oil will donate its share of any proceeds it received from this release to organisations which seek to elevate The Uluru Statement From The Heart in particular and Indigenous reconciliation more broadly (https://ulurustatement.org/).

Solid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F50PFu_xNJQ

I wish it were a little faster, though.

I wish they cut the first introductory chorus. It's too long as well as too slow.

Old men make a record that sounds convincingly like their first staid record, 30 years ago

I'll say this, when I saw them a couple of years ago they were as good as ever, so I blame the old man decision making behind the boring production/arrangements more than the capable old men themselves.

Their decisions stayed pretty consistently old-mannish boring in all those subsequent 30 years, right down to cogging for Insulationgate and being Rodriguez' backing band.

Disappointing political turns aside, I just saw the "1984" documentary and seems like a pretty good snapshot of the band that year. At the very least I learned that Peter Gifford occasionally played a Chapman stick in the band, underscoring their prog bona fides.

I also learned that they had to nail Rob Hirst's drum set to the stage.

Not surprised about Hirst; he was a monster, and at times he came across as a kind of proggy Grant Hart.

I was listening to their 1978 debut recently, and that last track ('Nothing Lost Nothing Gained') is totally prog.

Not surprised about Hirst; he was a monster, and at times he came across as a kind of proggy Grant Hart.

Good comparison. I got to see MO back in the late 80s and Hirst was easily the key person to their sound. Even on the slower songs, his veins wanted to explode out of his skin.

key person to their sound

And the main songwriter!

We’re grieving the loss of our brother Bones Hillman, who has passed away at his home in Milwaukee today after a cancer battle. He was the bassist with the beautiful voice, the band member with the wicked sense of humour, and our brilliant musical comrade.

Bones joined Midnight Oil way back in 1987 after stints in various Kiwi bands, most notably, The Swingers. He played and sang on every Midnight Oil recording since Blue Sky Mining and we did thousands of gigs together.

We will deeply miss our dear friend and companion and we send our sincerest sympathies to Denise, who has been a tower of strength for him.

Haere rā Bonesy from Jim, Martin, Peter & Rob.

Wow. He was a great bass player. I had no idea he lived in Milwaukee! All these surprising sidemen live or lived in Milwaukee. Bones, Clyde Stubblefield, Hal Blaine, Daryl Stuermer ...

oh thats v sad

RIP Bonesy

I had no idea he lived in Milwaukee!

That may have been quite recent - he was living and playing in Nashville for most of the 21st century, AIUI

That's what I thought, too. I guess it's not too far a flight.

I have strongly disliked "Beds are burning" and the song that goes "and that will naht be BROOHHH-Ken" from the instant I heard them. but from the the instant I heard "The Best of Both Worlds," in 1985 I thought it was an edge of mayhem, about to blow off of the deck into the eye of the hurricane-style recording common in 1982 to Alternative Tentacles or SST and not at all to major labels. And yet I never fucked with them until now.

I am listening to 10, 9, 8… and I am in particular impressed with "Scream In Blue," and I do think this is good balance between cool production and capturing a good performance… and… maybe I've missed out? What else do I need to listen to? And I don't have a really good handle as to where they were coming from…they were too old to be inspired by punk…I don't heard what the antecedents would be… the Who? Who else? And would the likes of Nick Cave look down on them?

10,9,8... and Red Sails in the Sunset, its successor, are my favorites, so those two. Best of Both Worlds is on RSitS, fwiw, as is Kosciusko, When the Generals Talk, Minutes to Midnight, etc - really, chock full of goodness.

If you don't like the tracks off Diesel and Dust, think you might not vibe with the run from DaD > Blue Sky Mining > Earth & Sun & Moon, but I like them. After that, they lessen the polish on Breathe > Redneck Wonderland > Capricornia. A sampling of tracks off those would tell you if you'd dig them.

The first three (Midnight Oil > Head Injuries > Place Without a Postcard) are rougher, with some gems, but more like a band finding the feet that it gets on 10,9,8... Somewhat like early 'mats vs later, or the first few Tragically Hip vs. their later albums.

I like The Makarrata Project (their latest, with guest vocalists), esp. the Alice Skye track.

"The rich get richer, the poor get the picture, the bombs never hit ya when you're down so low" is a lyric that's come to mind a lot during the last four years.

I can see some looking down on them for being corny, or being sell-outs, or meaningless stuff like that. But musically the band was pretty top-notch. There was a backhanded compliment that Christgau used that I've always liked:

Figures that a major-label, major-management band expressly obsessed with nuclear holocaust and man's inhumanity to man should smell slightly progressive, which I do not use in the lefty sense.

So I'd say after "10-1" I'd listen to "Red Sails in the Sunset" (if you haven't), but don't ignore "Diesel and Dust," which is a great album, imo. Xgau is even more snide and cynical in his review of that one, but this time he gives it a B+. "Beds are Burning" is the first track, so if you do hate it it's easy to skip, though it does throw off the impeccable sequencing.

When in doubt you can't go wrong with the Oils on Water concert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dV6vbb1YqI

The band was super talented and ridiculously tight, with Rob Hirst a near peerless percussionist whose drums had to be nailed down to the stage.

Like, there are only the faintest of similarities, but this performance reminds of me Fugazi, of all things.

I can see that comparison, actually!

I love this band

I did happen to watch this vid last night, and I immediately thought if that was shot even two or three years later, the crowd wouldn't be passively taking it in, a head nod or two, as they are here… it would be BEDLAM… watching Garrett here and elsewhere puts me in the mind of Jello…

What else do I need to listen to? And I don't have a really good handle as to where they were coming from…they were too old to be inspired by punk…

Saints first single came out over a year before the Oils recorded their first album tbf, but they probably got loud and fast mainly through a) being young and b) trying to grab the attention of drinkers.

10 to 1 is their second-best and second-most interesting album; as everyone else says, Red Sails is the best and most. After that, the Species Deceases EP is the same type of super-tight songwriting and incredibly clean production, but solely on fast rock songs.

(Weirdly for this switch to a more straight-ahead record, it was produced with François Kevorkian - Nick Launay did the previous two albums.)

Rob Hirst a near peerless percussionist

NB to vm: they're one of those bands where everyone writes at least a bit, sometimes with other members, but Hirst is one of the two main songwriters (vying with the lead guitarist; Garrett is in a distant third, sometimes contributing to the others' songs).

OK, then: so if Garrett ia distant third in the band as a songwriter, is he the leftist of the band, and the rest of the guys are kinda "we're okay that shit, but he's the one that goes to the mat"; like one of the times I interviewed Tom Morello, I asked him "you and Zach have these beliefs, and they are the raison detre of the band; do the mopes in yr rhythm section care about leftist principles?" He answered noncommitaly that they did, but he clearly didn't like the question and wanted to move onto something else…

I don't heard what the antecedents would be… the Who?

I'm with the consensus on 10, 9, 8 ... and Red Sails, both terrific and unpredictable records. I like Diesel and Dust and Blue Sky Mining fine, but those earlier two are the ones I listen to when I want to hear them. (Which is not that often, but I'm always happy when I do.) I have never gone back to the pre-10,9,8 albums.

Plenty of leftist lyrics in Hirst's not-Garrett-cowritten songs, and he even sings lead on When The Generals Talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNL3xhxGpK8

I felt that after 10-1 and Red Sails, they kind of fell off a cliff

SPE. CIES. DE. CEA. SES.

(Diesel & Dust totally goes, but Blue Sky Mining was "what if Diesel & Dust but boring?" so tainted it retroactively.)

I know, I keep forgetting about Species Deceases. Also Bird Noises.

I never gave this band a good listen until now. I don't even think I listened to any Australian bands the last time I checked them out, and that feels relevant given how topical their best music can be. For example, one of my favorite Paul Kelly songs, "From Little Things Big Things Grow," doubles as a history lesson on the Gurindji strike - an extraordinary story that became my gateway into the history of Aboriginal Australians. It won't change whether or not you like Midnight Oil, but I'm sure some of their songs won't feel as sharp if the context is completely lost.

Anyway, I just went through 10,9,8,7... and Diesel and Dust. 10,9,8,7... isn't bad but it didn't really do anything for me musically speaking. However I liked Diesel and Dust quite a bit, including "Beds Are Burning" (which I never hear played anywhere, even though it's supposed to be the "hit"). It's stunning how much of the album deals with Aboriginal land rights, and it does so without feeling limited or monotonous - just the opposite.

Both albums sound very different though, and there's something about the latter that feels like it's more accessible to anyone with a taste for mainstream American rock while the former sounds a bit more daring - I'd normally favor that, but on a basic level the songwriting on Diesel and Dust feels more engaging.

Looks like I gave my opinion on this thread back in '03 and it still holds. If anything, I enjoy Diesel and Dust more now (not a track I don't like). The next two albums are weaker versions of it with some moments that work. I've had 18 years to listen to their pre-Diesel albums and still haven't done it - time to remedy that!

Yeah, I think "Diesel and Dust" is start-to-finish great, and definitely more accessible. Aside from the singing it's even sometimes hard to believe it's the same band, and in that regard it reminds me of (in concept) "Laid" by James, a concerted but successful decision to strip things down and back and focus even more strictly on songs. The previous Midnight Oil albums are so full of ideas, not least because the prog-like approach and context didn't force them to discard any of them. Usually for the best, since those albums are rad, but I think there was no good next step further in that direction. Downshifting was inevitable, and D&D was a great example of a band doing so at its peak, not when it ran out of ideas or steam or suffered some setback or failure.

FWIW, I like "Earth and Sun and Moon" better than "Blue Sky Mining." The latter is so sterile and over-considered, the former is a bit looser and more organically band-in-a-room. Both albums have some great songs on it, but "Earth" delivers them better, imo.

I also prefer the more organic sound of E&S&M to the one on BSM, but I don't recall liking one album much more than the other. it's been years since I listened to either though

I haven't listened to Blue Sky Mining in ages, either. I remember liking it well enough, and I do like the title track (the only thing that sticks in my head at the moment). But all the dismissals of it itt make me wonder how it would hold up if I listen again. My sense of liking it is also related to having seen them play on the BSM tour, and they were really good.

I really liked Midnight Oil in like 7th-9th gr. I had Diesel & Dust + bought Blue Sky Mining the day it came out! I loved everything about both of those albums and revisited both recently. I hadn't listened to either in aaaaaages and it was a fun time capsule. My memories of being a little righteous crusader all came back. I never really got into the band beyond those albums.

This thread title always literally makes me lol bc I picture someone posting simply "G'dud"and that's funny.

I can't remember now if I became aware of them circa Diesel & Dust or if I had Red Sails in the Sunset first, but I definitely liked Red Sails more.

i definitely only became aware once they had a big single. they probably became uncool because kids like me liked them lol

A friend of mine grew up in Perth and told me that Midnight Oil was so huge in Australia in the '80s that you could literally stop a random person on the street and sing, "US forces give the nod" and they'd immediately respond, "it's a setback for your country." I have no idea how true that is, but I've always wanted to go to Australia to test it out and/or make a fool of myself.

Playing Diesel & Dust, I'd forgotten that I bought a bullroarer because of this album. Will have to search that out, if I still have it.

they were really smart to go pop because I've been listening to their cool early stuff and they were a mediocre post punk band

XXP: That's probably not too far off the mark, Tarfumes. I'd not be surprised if tracks from the first half of the 80s ("Armistice Day", "US Forces", "Short Memory", "When the Generals Talk", "Power and the Passion", etc) are *still* prominent rock radio fixtures in Aus. Possibly more so than later stuff?!? They certainly were when I was last force-fed daytime commercial radio in the workplace.

growing up in Oz, the Oils were pretty ubiquitous. it wasnt really a question of liking them or not, everyone sort of accepted them as decent? some ppl prob found them annoying maybe idk.

the question was more if you were INTO them.
i know in high school the ppl who were super into the Oils were mostly dorky farm boys

i don’t think i fully got their impact until i was at university and the relevance of their message became much more clear - but i still dont know if i fully appreciated them musically etc wholly until my 20’s

when a band is THAT ubiquitous it takes a long time to critically assess them on their own merits imo

How popular were Paul Kelly and the Go-Betweens back in the day? In the U.S. they remain more or less critical favorites with a small but devoted cult following. I always wondered if they did that well in Australia - it wouldn't seem logical for a local artist struggling for a hit in Australia to get major label distribution in America, but I could be wrong.

Paul Kelly had the same ubiquity — was very well known & most everbody knew his music just from radio etc

again - the question was *how* into his music you were, not whether you were into him at all

GoBetweens for me was a bit different - i knew Cattle and Cane but not much else until i started hanging out w cool ppl at university
they didnt the same kind of broad radio play where i grew up (country town, limited to commercial radio for a long time until the broadcast strenth of indie radio improved in early-mid 90’s

and to guard against sicbot corrections
talking abt personal experience in rural victoria, i am not speaking for country as a whole

when a band is THAT ubiquitous it takes a long time to critically assess them on their own merits imo

That all sounds like growing up with the ubiquity of Springsteen in the US in the ‘80s. At a certain point — years, or maybe decades later — those who generally accepted him, but weren’t necessarily fans, stopped and said, “wait, WHY is he so beloved? I should look into that.” And I think the Spin piece in 1985 called the Oils the Australian equivalent of Springsteen.

The Midnight Oil 1984 documentary was tremendously illuminating in terms of their politics/convictions. But that’s where the Springsteen comparison falls apart: Reagan mentioning Bruce in an ‘84 campaign speech was strange: a president is using a rock star to woo voters?! The idea of Springsteen running for office, as Garrett did, at any level would’ve been utterly bizarre and unthinkable.

yeah Springsteen comparison re Oils’ ubiquity in Australia is a really good example.

i think with Garret at some point we all just assumed he’d run for political office eventually, it was mors just a question of when lol

*more

if we can just play "ask vg how popular bands were in australia", how about Little River Band

VERY

i think with Garret at some point we all just assumed he’d run for political office eventually, it was mors just a question of when lol

*beep boop* he ran for office in 1984!

I suspect quite a few people are over Garrett now, post-actual-parliamentary career. But the description of '80s ubiquity seems very OTM.

Paul Kelly was perhaps wise to avoid public office. I've seen no evidence of anyone actively disliking him, ever. It feels like each Xmas every male in Aus confesses to getting misty-eyed over "How to Make Gravy", at the very least. LOL.

I know I had to actively seek out Go-Betweens stuff beyond "C&C"/"Spring Rain"/"Streets of Your Town" in the hiatus period. They were certainly indie-famous, but far as I can tell only "Streets" crossed over to commercial radio, when it was too late. They are possibly more appreciated now.

xp re Garrett running for office:

then he quit the party six months later because it had been infiltrated by socialists

then twenty years later he joined the center-center-left party on the invitation of a leader who is now a right-wing nutjob conspiracy broadcaster, got elected, and was forced by the party to publicly renounce his opposition to US spy bases and missile sites on Australian land, publicly declare that he would vote in favour of new nuclear facilities if ordered to (and later became the minister with responsibility for, and approved, the expansion of a uranium mine), campaign in another state by lying that the Greens were in allegiance with the right-wing government, and eventually got sacked and thrown under the bus when a bunch of tradies died installing roof insulation under a gov't scheme that was being rorted by private contractors.

Correction: Labor leader who was one handshake away from being prime minister is now NSW state leader of One Nation, sitting in the state's upper house.

As someone else who grew up in not-Melbourne Victoria, vg's recollections ring true.

less of a correction, more of an addition. it's been a whole 3 hours since he posted video of himself talking to Bolta on Sky News:

IDENTITY POLITICS USED BY ELITES TO KEEP THE REST OF US IN CHECK

The claims of victimisation by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex highlight the fraudulent nature of identity politics. By dividing us on race and gender, the “woke” elites divert attention away from their own privilege!

I missed that Latham was actually elected in that capacity! Ewwww NSW!

(xp) Fair enough. I thought that he's an interviewee rather than an interviewer on Sky these days (not watching video to confirm). The difference is negligible, admittedly.

I owned Scream in Blue at one time, and recall that it was a good 'un.

Don’t forget the role Daniel Johns from Silverchair played in Garrett’s downfall

VG: what is the biggest Aussie band in Australia?

AC/DC vs. INXS

oh also is Nick Cave extra big there or just regular high end of indie popularity like here?

also I forgot Divinyls were from Australia!

AC/DC vs. INXS

The Bee Gees formed in Australia, if you want a three-way battle.

Cold Chisel and Powderfinger are secretly the most popular Aus acts within Australia. (A lie, probably, but it would be amusing if the statistically correct answer was something that never really traveled well.)

Cave albums routinely go comfortably top #10 in Aus nowadays, so he's pretty popular. Close to a household name, I'd say. Though my mother, for instance, can only name the Kylie duet. (I inadvertently tested this recently!)

Mum only pays attention to Cave to tease me about how old he’s getting lol

Rural wise i think AC/DC is def more broadly popular, and across most ages over 40’s 50’s etc

INXS maybe more popular w under 40’s idk and prob women? but thats a big maaaaybe bc they kinda fucked themselves w all the stupid shit they did after Hutchence died lol

i dont farkin know tbh

Chisel and Powderfinger def feel like much bigger cultural presences

Don’t forget the role Daniel Johns from Silverchair played in Garrett’s downfall

idk if I knew it to forget. too late if so!

The difference is negligible, admittedly.

yeah this is the thing, whether he's streaming drunk on facebook live on a $100k parliamentary pension, paid less than that (+ parl pens) to host on Sky News, or paid less again (+pp) to guest, it's still his main activity, and legislating isn't.

plus he's how he made himself eligible to that voting bloc (2 out of 42 seats: he ran on stopping immigration, blocking renewable energy, requiring DNA tests for indigenous dole recipients, and banning the burqa; used his maiden speech to argue that ppl shouldn't be fired for telling gays that they are cursed to hell)

According to a Herald Sun article reposted to this forum thread, it's AC/DC over Bee Gees with INXS third, although international impact is considered. Every band mentioned in this revive is in the list.

(xp) Also happy to be reminded of Johns's role!

I grew up in 80s Sydney and all the bands mentioned in this thread were ubiquitous with the exception of the Go-Betweens, who were very niche indie back then and never had a hit, I don't think even Streets of Your Town charted.

it got a bit of TV play at the time, and became one of the two Go-Bes songs guest programmers would pick on rage through the '90s, but only charted in NZ.

(Cattle & Cane ranked at #11 and #27 on the first two Hot 100s, clung on desperately at #96 in the final year when Nirvana and nationalisation broke the poll.)

The Hottest 100 returns have been wretched for at least a quarter of a century

Final (?) album and final (?) tour coming up. The former (promo snips of which were pretty solid) reportedly recorded before the death of Bones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV-QrTrpNzg

Actually, I guess the new album is already out? Man, what a world we live in.

for those upthread curious about the Daniel Johns incident https://amp.smh.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/i-should-shut-up-and-stick-to-singing-20070709-gdqktg.html

Classic. Bought 10 to 1 when it came out, it didn't leave my turntable for months. Watched their evolution from there through the Diesel and Dust album and tour, when they were at their height as a live band. Still one of the most electrifying live acts I've ever seen, albeit much diminished the last time I saw them, circa Redneck Wonderland. The new album so far is . . . good. Doesn't look like I'll get a chance to see this final tour; the only possible date is at the Hollywood Palladium, but I have something else that I likely can't get out of.

I hadn't really paid attention to Garrett's political career, and now I wish I didn't know.

garrett's political career was a disaster really, he clearly sold out to no real benefit & then was thrown under the bus for something that wasn't really his fault

he could have very comfortably fit into the greens without having to compromise but back in 2004 when he was recruited to labor the greens were a much smaller political presence here

Yeah, that's my impression. Really ill-advised. He always struck me as being pretty smart, but it seems like he got completely turned around.

I gotta say, back in the day I really disliked Midnight Oil for their earnestness and bombast, but now, I really dislike Midnight Oil for their earnestness and bombast.

still really really like em. he dngaf if he bugged you afaict. until elected i guess.

It's possible he still views it as the right move. Parachuted into a safe ALP seat and a steady income. Not sure he'd have been pre-selected as effortlessly in the Greens let alone be elected into one of their very limited number of viable (presumably upper house) slots. He might have to have done more tedious unpaid stuff before his parliamentary career even began. Like everyone ever associated with the ALP he's likely convinced himself that "change from within" is/was an actual thing, and preferable to messing about with smaller parties who threaten to stand for something.

That's just fuckin' sad.

that uh, seems like imaginary things but i’m not aussie and have no heroes

It doesn't pay to have heroes, honestly.

To be fair, he had been a candidate for a tiny party decades earlier. I don't really blame him for trying something else tbh. The ALP are hardly the most monstrous option.

Yeah, the Nuclear Disarmament Party, right?

Like everyone ever associated with the ALP he's likely convinced himself that "change from within" is/was an actual thing

This is obviously the calculus he made; he found out that getting fucked by a thousand rats can also happen from within.

The ALP are hardly the most monstrous option.

At the time, this was certainly true. It would be far more of a betrayal if he’d lined up for a parachute after 2018.

He was my local member, and you certainly did see him around and about. Don't think you can fault him for trying, but obviously it didn't turn out well.

Hoping, without any enthusiasm, for a Labor win this time around. Labor is a hollowed out nothing these days, but anything to get rid of Scummo I guess

Ablo’s my local member, imagine how these four years have felt

I have postal ballots sitting here and have toyed with voting informal for the first time. I guess the fact we can now at least let our preferences exhaust before electing Labor in the senate is making the utter inevitability of my HoR ballot converting into a vote for my local Labor candidate seem increasingly absurd and unsupportable lol. It'd be an irrational move. But the idea of my ballot inexorably making its way onto the Labor pile so reliably for soooo many years is really bugging me lately.

Proportional representation in both houses NOW! etc, etc.

I will vote Green and, with zero enthusiasm, preference Labor. However vacuous their current policies are, I don't think I can physically stand another 3 years of the coalition.

^ Basically what I did in the HoR in the end. (No real sensible alternatives amongst the microparties standing in my electorate.)

Just posted it! Thanks Midnight Oil thread on the interwebs for reminding me to vote. :)

Perhaps unexpectedly, this thread has given me a chance to get at least passingly acquainted with the current state of Australian politics. It's both appalling and not surprising that the current state looks very much like that of U.S. politics.