Marilyn Manson: Classic or Dud?

Well, let's see - rises from the murky depths of Florida, goes out to shock in a Kiss-like fashion (since he obviously can't keep up with the death metal / biology freaks that define the Floridian experience), picks a really obvious cover song to browbeat the masses with (oh, some of them LIKE to be abused, OK - sing that part really spooky like, thanks, Brian), hits an interesting sonic nerve with "Beautiful People" (assuming you tune him out in the verses & pay attention to the other stuff), attaches tired Nazi imagery & his flabby, pale, sub-Howard-Stern-esque ass to said song during an MTV performance, does a switch-up & turns into an androgynous Bowie-esque glam freak (and does so quite well, I might add), and then reverts back to Mr. Scary Man (going so far as to reclaim "Beautiful People" for a lesser diatribe) to reclaim the meat of his fanbase that jumped ship when he got REALLY freaky. Also - worked with Sneaker Pimps (?!?) for a song on that god-awful _Spawn_ movie soundtrack. Also - allowed Rose McGowan to affix herself onto him & parasitically absorb his pseudo-freaky-deaky vibe for her own personal gain (which she needed, after those Akari movies & _Jawbreaker_). Also - gave a guitarist fellatio on stage with parents watching AKA trying too hard.

I'm scared more of the Lords of Acid. Or the Genitorturers. Or Nashville Pussy. He does give good soundbytes every so often. But Trent pushes more buttons without saying a damn thing. And sounds better doing it. D to the U to the D.

S

as rock music: not classic, but occasionally entertaining.

I'm listening to it now and it's one of the best sellout moves ever! Michael Beinhorn finally had a reason to exist!

evan rachel wood was in some movie i think.

"The song was written because I had been reading the book Lolita and it was very close with Evan Rachel Wood, who’s now my girlfriend, and she came to visit me one day wearing these glasses like Stanley Kubrick in Lolita and part of it because of her sense humour and knowing that people would make their comments about our relationship because she’s younger than me and when I saw her wearing those glasses I had to write a song about it and that’s the way I wrote most of the record."

only on ILM could there be a consensus that Mechanical Animals and fucking "Dope Show" were good.

ROFL

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070804/ap_en_ot/people_marilyn_manson

LOS ANGELES - Marilyn Manson's former keyboardist has sued the shock rocker, claiming he kept millions of dollars meant to be shared and bought items including a handbag owned by Hitler's girlfriend and a skeleton in a wheelchair.
ADVERTISEMENT

Stephen Bier — whose stage name was Madonna Wayne Gacy — says he, Manson and other band members signed a partnership agreement in 1993 to share profits.

The suit, filed Thursday in Los Angeles County Superior Court, claims Manson and others deceived Bier into thinking the band wasn't making much money.

Bier says he began to think differently several years ago when Manson, whose real name is Brian Warner, went on a spending binge. He claims Manson owes him at least $20 million in shared profits.

From 2004 to 2006, the suit claims, Manson used band money to buy a $2 million home, collect Nazi paraphernalia and to give his fiancee at the time a handbag once owned by Eva Braun.

Manson also bought "African masks made of human skin, the full skeleton of a 4-year-old Chinese girl, and the full skeleton of a 17th-century male in a wheelchair," the suit claims.

In addition, the suit claims Manson spent band money on personal drug treatment, a low-budget movie production, a Los Angeles gallery to display his artwork and about $450,000 for an engagement ring and his wedding to burlesque performer Dita Von Teese. She has since filed for divorce.

Bier contends that Manson and the band's lawyer and business managers cut off his salary payments and band credit card access and refused to pay his medical bills for work-related problems.

Manson's agent did not immediately return a call Saturday. But in an interview Thursday with MTV News, Manson denied the allegations and said he would fight them.

"The fact that he's claiming that I've treated him unfairly, financially, is really ridiculous," the singer said. "And I would never spend my money on a Chinese girl skeleton. That would be crossing the line. It's a Chinese boy, for the record."

Okay, I can only look at that final quote there and conclude I need to walk away from the computer a bit. I must be going insane.

a handbag owned by Hitler's girlfriend

"edgy"

i know...a few tweaks this could've been an Onion story

who's still in from the original band? Ginger Fish?

Cocaine's a helluva drug.

How did he fit all the time for these shopping sprees into his acts of drunken domestic violence against his ex-wife?

I dunno but Dita Von Teese has been on those IFC Indie Sex specials all week and she seems like an all right gal. Too good to take shit from this dude for as long as she did, anyway.

pretty dud

i'll throw on antichrist superstar for a laugh every year or so, but even that's starting to feel pretty thin and unnecessary

“I’ve found my double, my twin, with my new girlfriend, Evan Rachel Wood,” Manson, 38, tells France’s Le Parisien newspaper.”She’s 19 and certainly that’s very young,” he added, “but that’s not a problem for me. She likes the same things as me. She understands I like to get up when night falls and go to sleep at dawn.”

As we can see in the pic, the light does not do you any wonders. Nor coke and buying Eva Braun's handbag.

If Marilyn Manson had any redeeming features, it'd be very easy to feel sorry for him. As it stands, I think they've already got the cast for The Surreal Life this year, but maybe 2008?

I guess it's kind of amazing that he's still operating by about a 12 year old's idea of badass.

at least as brilliant at press manipulation as Madonna, just a little less ambitious - as noted elsewhere on the thread, he can put together a good single when he puts his mind to it

I am permanently operating on a 12 year old's idea of badass so I got love for his schtick

I didn't say that was necessarily a bad thing

Taking a page from the Van Halen playbook, it was announced yesterday that Marilyn Manson and longtime collaborator guitarist Twiggy Ramirez would reunite for Manson’s Eat Me, Drink Me tour. Rock Daily talked to Manson hours after the announcement, and he shared the story behind their reunion. Though the two had already re-connected during a chance meeting on the streets of Los Angeles, it was Manson witnessing another reunion that inspired him to invite Twiggy back. “The turning point for me was when I went to see Led Zeppelin’s reunion show, and I saw Jimmy Page and Robert Plant look at each other for a moment, and they probably said, ‘Holy shit, we wrote ‘Stairway To Heaven.'’ I wanted that look again,” Manson explains. “I want to look at Twiggy and go ‘Holy shit, we wrote ‘The Beautiful People.’ I called him and I said ‘Let’s go do this.’”

'I want to look at Twiggy and go ‘Holy shit, we wrote ‘The Beautiful People’

...what the FUCK were we thinking?'

Ned Raggett OTM

mostly dud from what I've heard, but then again I've never heard Portrait of an American Family, which I've heard is the 'one to hear'.

Had this happened before the tour swung by, I might have turned out for it. As it was, everything I've heard off the current album is dreadful.

'dried up, tied and dead to the world' is actually a good song
it took i-tunes shufflle and a good degree of nostalgic tolerance to realise this.

remember when Marilyn Manson was America's bad boy? More innocent days.

And how, sir. And how.

i know...a few tweaks this could've been an Onion story

An oldie but a goodie:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28771

I was once in line behind him at the Daddy's Junky Music in North Cambridge; this was probably 1995 or so. I remember being impressed that he paid for his gear with checks that had "MARILYN MANSON" printed on them. Attention to detail.

I kinda feel sorry for him here

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=184_1215631150

Inspired by Britney, I'm sure.

Born to Make You Slappy?

if he was it wouldn't surprise me, dudes go bald lol, but that didn't look particularly like him from what i could see

He's like Santa, he's got a lot of people helping him out during the busy festival season.

i'm not marilyn manson, but i do play him at parties

hahaha that is not marilyn manson

New Marilyn Manson track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRKsF17wY30#t=98

Guess he's trying to ape Bowie this time out.

he seems like an actually pretty intelligent guy who likes a lot of music I like and who's the sort of pop figure I'm glad to have around and I hear the opening chords and go ok let's hear it this could be ok but then that singing is just

I mean c'mon man

Ray Tabano is OTM but there's something about his voice that really appeals to me despite everything about it that I would say is objectively wrong

also when he goes glam, he really rules; new single "Cupid Carries A Gun" sounds like an outtake from Mechanical Animals in the best possible way

Glam Manson is the best! I'll have to check that song out.

http://open.spotify.com/track/7N2Y7M2ezn2KtquQCh66p4 <-- if you use Spotify

I'm playing the whole album now and it's FUCKING GREAT; the first song alone is in horrifying taste when put up against Columbine and appeals very strongly to the nihilistic 15-year-old in me

Yeah this record is really good. It's a collaboration with Tyler Bates, who did the music for JOHN WICK, which is an incredible movie where attractive men (and one woman) beat the shit out of and shoot at each other a lot at some point in near-future New York City. There's a great set piece set to "Killing Strangers."

This bums me out

Marilyn Manson Ends Show Abruptly After Apparent Onstage Meltdown: He reportedly went on several rants asking fans to say they loved him

Marilyn Manson seems to have suffered a meltdown at his Huntington, N.Y. show last night, as BrooklynVegan points out. According to various fan posts from the concert, Manson went on several long, angry, incoherent rants, repeatedly asking fans to say they love him. He reportedly ended the set abruptly, dropping his microphone after performing only a handful of songs. After the show, fans started chanting, “Fuck you, Manson.”

I guess someone had to pick up the mantle after Axl Rose's recent bout of reasonableness: http://www.metalsucks.net/2017/10/16/who-is-currently-singing-for-guns-n-roses-and-what-have-they-done-with-axl-rose/

Hopefully just an 'off' night?

Probably but MM has never gotten sober & I imagine his severe injury has got him taking a lot of painkillers. Just a bad situation waiting to happen

Thread reminded me to watch some of his old interviews. He was always the most eloquent speaker in them it seemed, like the politically incorrect ones

friend of mine has a friend playing in mansons band, ended backstage and on bus. MM didn't hang out but general vibe was dismal 50 yr olds doing coke with a few hanger ons

Sounds about right.

Probably but MM has never gotten sober & I imagine his severe injury has got him taking a lot of painkillers. Just a bad situation waiting to happen
― flappy bird,

this was exactly my first thought.

I don't know much about Marilyn Manson, but fuuuuuck, this 2020 song is awesome!

https://youtu.be/9TqhGxfAwqI

Look, I really like this whole album. It's a great 80's album.

I'm 41 years old, btw. My embarrassment should be built-in.

Ok, thanks.

I still stand behind this great 80s-sounding song, even with the above asshole's video.

^ Every once in a while it's good to remind me why I don't bother posting here. I started Kacey Musgraves and Perfume Genius threads here, but I'm done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlVJwp0baU

0:32

think about that line a lot idk why. maybe the internal rhyme.

ignore the burrito man

ignore Neamberthal and listen to this great 80s-sounding song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TqhGxfAwqI

I'm sorry for posting a video of a masturbating orangutan while you were trying to talk to people about how much you like the new Marilyn Manson song, music fanatic Rod Steel. I've been having a pretty tough few weeks and sometimes it makes me feel better to post videos of masturbating orangutans while people try to talk about Marilyn Manson. I promise I won't ever post another video of a masturbating orangutan in this thread ever again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2_JCNWTus

unperson's video is what I expected to see when this was bumped, I have no idea what the hell was happening

I had forgotten Evan Rachel Wood dated this asshole.

yeah his metoo moment is waaaay overdue - I suspect some combination of legal maneuvering and being very well-connected has delayed it.

didn't he already kind of get metoo'd by Evan Rachel Wood?

that's the video unperson embedded

oh. I'm at work and never see videos or images on here

i remember a friend seeing him live in 2001 and apparently he did an audience interaction bit which amounted to moderate sexual assault of a teenager who came up on stage.

he actually talks about all that stuff re stuff at gigs very openly in his autobiog.

I want to briefly apologize to reacting to being trolled. I was a little raw last weekend, lol. And I have no idea about this dude's (MM) transgressions. I do think his latest albums is surprisingly good as far as 80s-sounding music goes, but that's it.

Moderator, you may retract my yellowcard and offer an apology now that music fanatic Rod Steel has acknowledged that it was entirely warranted for me to troll him by repeatedly posting a video of a masturbating orangutan while he (Rod) tried to talk to someone, anyone about the 80s-sounding music of sexual predator Brian Warner aka Marilyn Manson

Burrito my man why not just roll w/ it

xpost you’re good

I'm rollin with it! You see me rollin. Squirrelly rolls are still rolls.

That’d be a resounding dud.

https://www.stereogum.com/2114784/evan-rachel-wood-accuses-marilyn-manson-of-horrific-abuse/news/

From Ann Powers:

I now see much more clearly that those challenges can reinforce power structures as much as dismantle them. Too often, CIS-het men (esp, not only, white men) assume an outsider persona without really surrendering the power and privilege of their unnatural birthright 2/

— Feeling Distant (@annkpowers) February 1, 2021

horrifying allegations. i hope he is held accountable.

criminally, i mean.

People have known this about Marilyn Manson since at least 1998. Read his book sometime...or don't (giant flashing neon hint: it was co-written with Neil fucking Strauss, who also worked on the Mötley Crüe book and a whole book about/endorsing the pickup artist lifestyle).

The mental acrobatics some folk do to try and defend Marilyn Manson. Just admit that listening to tunes is more important to you than another person's suffering. He wrote *personally* about doing shit just like this in his The Long Hard Road Out of Hell autobiography. I read it.

— Richard (@RichardOcelot) September 12, 2020

this whole thread is extremely disturbing. i never followed his career closely, tbh, so it is a shock to me that he would include semi-veiled depictions of his abuse of evan rachel wood in his work, as a further way to torment her

(giant flashing neon hint: it was co-written with Neil fucking Strauss, who also worked on the Mötley Crüe book and a whole book about/endorsing the pickup artist lifestyle).

Yeah, this is why I never bothered to read it (besides not being that interested in him anyway).

I used to think his whole "oooooh spooky, boundary pushing shock rocker" image was so try hard oversold that he was actually more of a quiet nerd in real life (which some Columbine era interviews seemed to back up), but I guess not so much. Or, cocaine is a hell of a drug.

Severe TW: Real physical abuse.
Found this clip that Marilyn Manson used as a website intro in 2010 before taking it down. And I found this blogpost detailing how it really is Evan Rachel Wood, & apparently she's actually being hithttps://t.co/yzORii68Iuhttps://t.co/QC7yddh4Cu

— Richard (@RichardOcelot) September 12, 2020

this is the craziest part of that thread. apparently he used fuzzy and manipulated footage of a bleeding woman as a website intro in 2010. and this blog claims that this wasn't staged footage, but actual footage of him beating evan rachel wood

booze and pills in this case i think xp

i think also he is just an evil person. he seems to have actually tortured all of his girlfriends.

ugh, i feel sick

yes the details in some of the accounts made me wanna throw up

Oh yeah, I'm not giving him any excuse with his various addiction issues at all. It's all terrible and even worse than I'd imagined based on what we knew ERW already said.

didn't think you were. i just think this pattern of behavior seems, idk, not like something that could be explained by substance abuse alone. what's being recounted is not just rage and erratic behavior

i'm not a psychologist though, who knows

Just dropped by his label.

I posted on the MeToo ILM thread about the 2015 Rolling Stone profile, which is full of right-in-plain-sight reprehensible stuff but predictably doled out with an ironic sense of "lol, how outré."

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/wes-borland-blasts-marilyn-manson-he-is-a-bad-fucking-guy/

At the other end of the alt-rock spectrum:

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/trent-reznor-calls-story-from-marilyn-mansons-memoir-a-complete-fabrication/

wow wes borland, what a hero (not)

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/dita-von-teese-says-marilyn-manson-allegations-do-not-match-my-personal-experience/

"this doesn't match my experience" needs to be banished forever.

Yes of course it doesn't match your experience...IT WAS SOMEBODY ELSE'S EXPERIENCE. saying shit like that basically is putting ERW and the other victims up for target practice for the incel crowd

Really cool out-of-context headline quote there.

why don't we ever talk about the people Phil Spector did not murder

dvt and rose macgowan both explicitly said that, though it doesn't match their personal experience, that doesn't mean they disbelieve the accounts. they were trying to prevent manson from using them as a shield.

or maybe that was just macgowan. idk.

That is v much not what DVT said

DVT's statement later in the Insta post also seems to be putting all of the onus of healing on the survivors.

If the msg she is trying to deliver is "I'm shocked because this is not who he was when we were together", she botched it terribly.

There was no show of support for the accusers either.

was manson's music any good? it always seemed really dull and formulaic, especially compared with his avant garde image.

yeah, i was wrong about dita von teese's statement. it's not surprising to me that the dynamic of his relationship with her -- a woman in her thirties or something back then -- was different than his relationship with a teenager.

was manson's music any good?

No.

it always seemed really dull and formulaic, especially compared with his avant garde image.

Precisely.

Xxxpost like the word "incur" in the context of victim suggests that the abuse happened due to the victim's own actions. That's...what the word "incur" means.

Incels are going to seize on this and harass ERW and no it's not an "out of context headline" to blame

Xpost to Treesh yr good, I was mostly responding to jmm

this is the time to talk about the quality of marilyn manson's music

btw i'm fping anyone who talks about the quality of marilyn manson's music wrt his abuses

including you treesh, gtfo with the faux naive stuff

Fuck this dude

agreed

It's perfectly fine to say 'fuck this guy and fuck his music too'.

At this point, who cares how good/bad his music is?

DJP otm

It mostly bugged me that the article didn't quote the first sentence here, without which it really sounds like she's setting out to cast doubt on the other accusers, rather than responding to a question about her own experience:

To those who have expressed concern about my well-being, I appreciate your kindness. Please know that the details made public do not match my personal experience during our 7 years as a couple.

Appreciate Neanderthal's points though.

she also instructs the accusers to heal themselves, which is a tell

yeah, i agree that the statement is worse on close reading than it first appears

I do think it's reasonable and defensible to say "I don't know how to reconcile my experiences with this person with the allegations of their behavior"; everyone has a particular image of the people around them and it's often hard to reconcile who you think someone to be with who they actually are. I don't know that DVT's statement falls into that category.

that's my feeling too. i wouldn't have objected to "I'm still processing this, as this is definitely a shock based on my previous experience with MM", while also offering support for ERW and the other survivors and advocating to listen to them.

there is definitely nuance that could have been utilized here to navigate those waters and just feel that she missed it.

OMG you guys really are doing this AGAIN.

You are getting way, way more worked up about policing the reactions of women to the news of the abuser, than you are about the abuser's abuse in the first place.

Do not fucking do this. Just don't.

xp I think it's reasonable in the sense that I get why people say it, but I don't think it actually holds up, nor do I think you can neatly separate it by distinguishing between"ho you think someone to be with who they actually are" -- both are what they "actually are," people are many things, a person can provide authentic kindness, love, and understanding to one person while treating another with unthinkable cruelty, that's the human condition.

You are getting way, way more worked up about policing the reactions of women to the news of the abuser

not my experience

anyway

idk maybe there's more discussion because we pretty much all agreed Marilyn Manson was a motherfucking abusive asshole when this news came out and all condemned him and there's really no nuance to parse there. Moreso, it was pretty much understood 2 years ago that when ERW made a statement indicating she was a victim of abuse, that the abuser was MM, so we condemned him then too.

whereas with this statement, there is some room for disagreement re: the helpfulness or lack thereof of this message, so it's naturally going to generate more discussion? and there is legitimate concern that this message is harmful to the survivors because of how it will be interpreted.

I spent a lot of time yesterday on social media pushing back on people I actually know doubting the victims because they're fans of MM's music or ask bullshit questions like "why are they only coming forward now?". Nobody has to do that here, because unlike that horrifying Wimmels/dlp001 derail in the Swans thread years ago, nobody's defending MM or refusing to believe the victims.

in any case, I've said my piece, and am moving on.

TW:

I went to Marilyn Manson’s house when I was a teenager with some friends. I was a big fan. He referred to a room in his house as the “r*pe room”, I thought it was just his horrible frat boy sense of humor. I stopped being a fan.

I stand with everyone who came forward.

— traitor joe (@phoebe_bridgers) February 4, 2021

this is sorta reminding me of the R. Kelly thing where he basically confessed all his crimes in his music but everyone took it as "oh that's just his persona"

which was the beginning of #metoo ... the R. Kelly thing was just super gross and those girls were so young! It's ... idk ... more of an issue for the Burger Records call-out, the "age of consent" issue and when is a girl a woman, and what "counts" or "should count" as statutory vs. adult, which ties into policing female sexuality in a way that has problematic overtones. But to me, it seems like the MM relationship w/Evan Rachel Wood was not that different than what some of the Burger Records victims went through, and the main difference is EWR was 18/19 and some of those girls were 16/17 ... I don't know where this is going, but it's nowhere pleasant.

But to respond to Branwell -- would it feel less icky if we were equally discussing Wes Borland's response and/or Reznor's? ... I think Neando's accurate with this:

idk maybe there's more discussion because we pretty much all agreed Marilyn Manson was a motherfucking abusive asshole when this news came out and all condemned him and there's really no nuance to parse there.

but there have been other male responses that aren't Manson's, and the conversation did go direct to Dita's ... and yeah, I agree, that's kinda icky.

dita's response noteworthy obviously bc she's the first person to anti-confirm the allegations

wes borland said he believed the women and that marilyn manson sucks, seems pretty inarguable

yeah ... I guess there just isn't much to really say there. I mean, we could make tangential puns to fill space but ... you make good points, Brad.

I would guess Dita had to say *something* just to keep the news from harassing her for weeks, and — with absolutely zero knowledge of her relationship with MM — I don’t think it’s fair to say what her statement should or shouldn’t be

yes that more charitable interpretation def occurred to me

Ellie Rowsell from Wolf Alice speaks up.

I met Marilyn backstage at a festival a few years ago. After his compliments towards my band became more and more hyperbolic I became suspicious of his behaviour. I was shocked to look down and see he was filming up my skirt with a gopro.

— ellierowsell (@elliecrowsell) February 6, 2021

Fucking horrible.

To bring this back to positivity for just a split second, I still think Tim and Ned are totally OTM at the beginning. Say what you want to about his antics, but _Mechanical Animals_ is a genuinely great Bowie-esque glam rock album, I dug it up a few days ago as a safe haven from the recent news, and "Great Big White World," "The Dope Show," the title track, "Rock Is Dead," "I Want to Disappear," "I Don't Like the Drugs (But the Drugs Like Me)," "The Last Day On Earth," and "Coma White" are all genuinely excellent songs. I even love _Antichrist Superstar_, though not quite as much as _Mechanical_. ("Irresponsible Hate Anthem," "The Beautiful People," "Dried Up, Tied, and Dead to the World," along with the last three songs, still fucking rule, though.)

Just as an ending note, I do not condone Mr. Warner's actions in _ANY_ way -- and even though I generally subscribe to the "innocent until proven guilty" theory, I think there has been evidence provided that shows that the survivors are almost certainly telling the truth -- I just want to separate the art from fhe artist for a second, and perhaps maybe just indulge my enjoyment of two albums I adored when I was 14.

All of you are OTM in your own ways. I just wanted to come in and voice a viewpoint directed towards his music (as opposed to his actions) for just a moment. You all seem like very nice people, and I wish nothing but the very best for all of you. Peace.

thanks brian. appreciated.

No problemo. ;-)

I certainly said that of a time but I'm also more than happy never bothering to listen again, you know?

no i think this is a great + appropriate time to revisit this rapist's music

like how could you read two posts above you and then think that anyone gives a fuck about what albums you liked when you were 14

When I was a teenager I felt nothing but indifference towards his music and mostly heard about him through my mother or her friends being shocked about him.

Now I’m the one shocked - well, sort of... it’s not much of a surprise is it? - and my mother is the one who feels complete indifference of any news about him. I talked to her about this news cycle and she was like “who now? Manson!? People still listen to him? What did they expect? He’s probably a pedophile too!”

I mean, I’m also as indifferent as I was to his music now as I was back then, but still I think it’s important not to remain indifferent towards any rape allegations.

Yeah, the one thing I'm having trouble with around this (aside from the abuse, obviously) is that all the conservatives who railed against him in the 90s are getting a pretty big "I told you so." I never listened to MM in his heyday, but the moral panic that sprung up around him always seemed so fucking ridiculous. And I eventually came around on him as a guy after reading a few interviews and watching his scene in Bowling for Columbine. "Oh, Marilyn Manson actually pretty smart." This is not to say that I think the politicians and clergy of Oklahoma and South Carolina were right, but I'm sure they think so now.

They all said the same thing about Alice Cooper though, and he's genuinely a smart guy. Probably best to say they're all awful and leave it at that.

I totally understand where you're coming from, Ned, and if you seriously don't feel comfortable listening again, that is absolutely your decision. However, just because people might frown upon my decision to continue listening does not mean I have to change my mind or suddenly stop listening. I'll admit that maybe if I were a survivor/an oppressed individual instead of a privileged white male who has suffered almost no hardships in life, I might feel different, but since I'm not, who cares?

As for call all destroyer, I never asked anyone to care about the albums I liked when I was fourteen. If you actually read my comment closely, you might see that I was actually just trying to re-inject some positivity in here. Of course, it didn't last long, but I was not expecting it to. I kind of knew people were going to criticize my response, and I welcome all vitriol in my direction. Because, hey, no attention is bad attention, from where I sit. ;-)

I will just end this comment off by saying this; while everything I say is open to attack and rebuttal, and I may very well reach a point where I'm no longer comfortable listening to the man's work, I'll say this much, and stand by it until the day I die: I'll be damned if I'm not allowed to like the music I enjoy listening to.

all the conservatives who railed against him in the 90s are getting a pretty big "I told you so."

the good news is these people were all in their eighties in the late 90s, so they're bound to die off any time now

wow way to take a stand for the RIGHT to listen to the music you liked as a 14 y/o

Someone needs to take a stand, why not me? ;-)

And yes, I know that you are almost certainly criticizing my comment, but I am a snarky bastard, and will stay that way.

manson's entire schtick, a slicked up version of 80s underrated underground rock "dark and edgy" is actually very conservative at heart, the outrage and image doesn't distract from the fact it just reinforced existing power structures, existing white male power fantasies, it was always bone dumb and overly impressed with itself....there was nothing challenging about it under the think veneer of shock tactics

*thin veneer

also scratch underrated I hate autocorrect

And I eventually came around on him as a guy after reading a few interviews and watching his scene in Bowling for Columbine. "Oh, Marilyn Manson actually pretty smart."

ha yeah, i still remember seeing him do Politcally Incorrect and stuff like that and smugly thinking "ha, those foolish family values scolds dont get that while he portrays a violent sadistic maniac in his Art, hes actually kind of an intelligent thoughtful guy!". turns out no, yeah he was still a violent sadistic maniac, it was a double-bluff. i didnt even like the music but it was fun to pat myself on the back for seeing through the moral panic.

xpost Yeah, I genuinely expected him to eventually make a schlubby republican golf dad turn a la Alice Cooper but that doesn't look like the way things are going to turn out after all.

everytime something like this comes out, there are posts or tweets like lone wanderer's, and it's kind of weird to me. because of course anyone can listen to anything they want, right? you're in your own place, or listening to your own headphones. no one would stop you. but it's not about listening to something it's about listening to something AND telling people you're listening to something AND wanting some kind of credit for doing so, as if you alone are wise enough to see the big picture and separate the art from the artist, not blinded by the passions of the moment

If you actually read my comment closely, you might see that I was actually just trying to re-inject some positivity in here.

Y'all, those TLW posts above are literally the first TLW posts ever. Probably safe to ignore and move on.

I certainly get where you're coming from, but I'm not trying to brag about any supposed "wisdom" on my part. I think most people are smart enough to separate the art from the artist. While I don't condone anything he did (I seriously don't, I'm almost certainly convinced he is a gaslighting, abusive manipulator), I also don't want to play "follow the leader" and delete the music from Spotify, Apple Music, etc, because I want to continue enjoying the music I do. Eric Clapton, Lou Reed, and Dave Mustaine also made less-than-savory choices, and I still love their discographies, and the same applies here.

I should note that I am replying to upper mississippi sh@kedown.

lmao

its ok to play follow the leader in this case imo

Y'all, those TLW posts above are literally the first TLW posts ever. Probably safe to ignore and move on.

I'm not saying that it's not -- I just said I'm not going to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09wON6jwJ2o

still lolling @ Eric Clapton

Hey, The Lone Wanderer, I might suggest you spend your first day on ILX maybe reading the board a little and getting a sense of the general tone before you post further. Because at the moment you are Wile E. Coyote setting a trap and not realizing that it's going to end with you splattered across the grill of a truck.

I must have missed that episode

which Eric Clapton stone grooves are we rocking out to today? "Forever Man" for me

Hey, I did, I just want to put some positivity back in. And if I get splattered, I will be splattered. I will happily be roadkill if it means getting to express myself.

I'm all about Cream, man. _Fresh Cream_ and _Disraeli Gears_ in particular are killer.

With all the recent revelations about Marilyn Manson, I’m reminded of an interview I did with him six or so years ago. It was a phoner, and he was doing his “I’m so menacing and Satany” schtick when suddenly my office door was kicked open. 1/5

— Eric Spitznagel (@ericspitznagel) February 9, 2021

like ok man, I'm trying to not assume the worst but reading serious and disturbing allegations of abuse of women and thinking "hey someone needs at this moment to inject some 'positivity' into this thread" at this particular moment seems, uh...like I don't get that impulse at all.

Lads we've got a special button for posts like these

yes, it's the play button on a Cream compilation!!!

And there goes another one

The reason why I think that is, upper mississippi sh@kedown, is because I initially held off on talking like this, but it's been a week, and I've learned to live with the news that Manson is an abuser. Thus, I'm happy to go back and listen to his best work, and enjoy it as a work of art. Again, I separate the art from the artist, and even with artists who I think are all-around terrible as human beings and musicians -- 6ix9ine, most of all -- I separate the music from the creator, and I see what's in the music rather than the personal life.

ok... I've seen all I need see here *closes manilla folder*

Everyone, this dude was already ethered by treeship, there's no reason to continue engaging

someone here is clearly very bored, but obv so am i

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fa/69/92/fa6992ab038b458c5696eecccc3b1068.jpg

Threadban plz

seems like something that will sort itself organically

i think this gentleman is a parody account

To bring this back to positivity for just a split second, I still think Tim and Ned are totally OTM at the beginning.
...
All of you are OTM in your own ways.

Oh, looks like they've been banned anyway.

just for telling us to love one another. wow. reminds me of someone else...

Everyone, this dude was already ethered by treeship, there's no reason to continue engaging

― Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP), Tuesday, February 9, 2021 2:23 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol i thought it was someone he named "brian" but i get it now. anyway i'm doing my part with buttons pressed etc. and i hope all of you are doing the same. we really don't need more of this kind of rat shit here you know?

*knew named

oh hi last few posts haha

tough days for M. Manson, first these revelations and now he racks up 20 fp's in a single day :(

A little fpositivity to brighten your day

What if OTM stood for "Oh, that Marilyn" this whole time?

Moby is gonna show up next

https://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Duran+Duran+Unstaged+Original+Series+American+jNULfqyvR2-x.jpg

is that carrie fisher

Let’s inject some flag postivity in this thread.

shes giving him a direct injection of positivity

https://www.thecut.com/2021/02/game-of-thrones-actor-esme-bianco-marilyn-manson.html

again and again and again- fuck this dude to deepest pits of hell

"One Great Story"

This is unreal levels of scumbag

The former assistant adds that the singer’s room contained a closet-size glass-walled space he called the “bad girl’s room,” that Manson could lock from the outside.

i really hope there is a criminal investigation.

and charges. these reports paint a picture of someone who would make a point of hurting women in any way he can.

thank you, dr. treeship

i'm just saying, it seems like this is a real pattern and he needs to be held accountable

jfc treesh. ya think?

Can’t we all just live with the news that he is an abuser and enjoy his high art instead?

I'll enjoy it when he's in jail.

cancel him straight into the earth's core or something.

I’m honestly kind of shocked at the lateness of this given his high profile and the severity of the abuse. I feel like it implicates a whole mini industry / scene rather than just one individual. I mean it always does, but maybe a bit more so in this case.

Like i understand that a major victim naming a name is the catalyst here but jeez... what has to be at stake that so many people keep quiet / keep it from boiling over for so long.

I wonder what was the final nail in the coffin for Trent Reznor? Was it just that he wanted to sober up and saw him as a bad influence to be around or is did he witness something that made him go “fuck this shit, I’m out of here”.

he's said one of the things that really soured their relationship was manson's autobiography having the story of them assaulting a woman together, which he maintains was completely fabricated, but it's been generally implied by him that manson's drug & alcohol issues were a big part of it too

they did briefly somewhat reconcile around 2000 where manson appeared in the starfuckers, inc. video and performed it with nin once then, but then they were back to insulting each other in the press before long

Also the previous nails were all under 9 inches.

It just gets grosser…

https://pitchfork.com/news/marilyn-manson-accused-of-another-sexual-assault-in-new-lawsuit/

I just want to take a moment to apologize to all of you. My comments in February were incredibly disrespectful and tone-deaf, and I really should not have posted them. You are welcome to ban me again, I find that completely fair. I just wanted to let you all know that I am genuinely sorry for any upset I caused, and I hope you all can find it in your hearts to forgive me to some extent. And even if you don't forgive me even a little, just know that I hold no contempt for you and I even understand, given how idiotic and willfully ignorant my comments back in February were.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

https://www.watchmojo.com/uploads/thumbs720/PH-H-Top10-Best-Designed-National-Flags-720p30.jpg

The LA Times article from yesterday is horrifying, it’s even worse than what’s been alleged so far. ERW’s testimony and story seems to be barely the tip of the iceberg, sadly.

Was there anything new in there? Seemed like kind of a summary of articles that I’ve read in this thread. Regardless, yeah, fuck this dude.

Maybe it was just a summary, but there were a couple women’s stories that seemed new to me. Regardless, pretty awful to see it all laid out like that.

Also, fuck Kanye for playing any part in trying to rehab this slime.

fucking hell https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/marilyn-manson-abuse-allegations-1256888/

jesus

I think with these stories, there's always a varying amount of how many people knew and did nothing and with this one, it's gotta be on the higher end

Jesus Christ the latest allegations are particularly sickening. Fuck this guy forever.