Who is the oldest rapper/hip hop artist that is still relevant?

the amazing Big L. but he got left in his 20s...

Beyond that, I'm guessing LL still has relevance/clout/credibility....despite recent singles ('paradise is verrrrrry nice'.....what?)

i'm sure there are also those that are big in the industry who recorded in their youth

After Jam Master J's murder, I heard a commentator saying that if it weren't for this death Run-DMC in the near future would have been headlining "Monsters of Rap" nostalgia tours. Hip-hop may or may not yet have its "Foghat circuit," but if the generation that grew up with rap continues going to shows, such a circuit almost certainly will develop.

And credibility can't be an issue given that Mick Jagger still seems to think that he's 19 years old.

I could never do it. Meant too much to me.

("keeping it real" = "keeping it time-locked" or something)

I look forward to hearing elderly dirty bastards, real-life versions of Martin Lawrence in Barbershop on CD, aged culture in general. "Our" problem, meaning everyone on this board between the ages of 26 and 38 (or whatever), is that we don't have the numbers to take advantage of the inevitable shift in the media toward real old/real young culture as boomers retire and the number of people under 25 skyrockets. We'll see elderly Dylan and elderly Bruce, but I don't know if elderly rap will make money for some time, and if it doesn't make money, there might not be enough of it to produce good work.

LL Cool J=Rod Stewart
KRS-One=Neil Young

If mainstream rock is defined by TRL, then the fogies in rock definitely don't get more respect than older rap icons. You don't see a Joe Strummer mural in a Good Charlotte video (or will you?).

The answer(s) are that:

- Hip hop/rap is still a relatively young sport. It will most definitely inspire bankable nostalgia at some point.

- It will take a miracle for the Beasties to blow up again.

I didn't suggest that the Beasties' popularity was waining at all, just that they're not taken quite as seriously in the Hip Hop community. Pretty much all the Beastie Boys fans I know are folks that otherwise listen to stuff like Radiohead, Sigur Ros and Jane's Addiction......not contemporary Hip Hop.

well, I dunno about why you're into Dre and Rakim, but De La are making good music about the concerns of people in (at least early) middle age (I imagine, from a 27yo perspective).

What will probably happen is that a new genre will come into being, something like a hip-hop version of adult contemporary, and eventually some of the people who grew up on hip-hop but don't want to hear the profanity & street POV will tune in.

This genre exists. It is called Anticon.

(seriously hip-hop can't be stripped of the street pov just as aging rockfans didn't turn to adult contempo -- lite&happy minded people of all ages did! aging rockfans either stick to classic rock or turn to classical. and more to the point the street-POV is more central to the definition of hip-hop than mcs or beats or anything else really.)

what does the street POV have to do with, for example, "rapper's delight," the beastie boys, LL, or de la soul?

(it's all that but it's more too/you can't diferentihate cause you done read a book or two)

in other words:

"it was the best advice that i ever had
it came from my wise dear old dad
he said sit down punk i wanna talk to you
and dont say a word until i'm through
now there's a time to laugh a time to cry
a time to live and a time to die
a time to break and a time to chill
to act civilized or act real ill
but whatever ya do in your lifetime
ya never let a mc steal your rhyme"

Also:

Givin' high-five is what I want
So I puff a blunt, I don't front
I get spliffed, get a stiff
Then I go hump a stunt
Like a pimp pro
That's cool 'cause I'm still an Afro bro
Yeah, I'm live for my life is hectic
Every hour, every minute, every second
I keep a level head and stay down to earth
'Cause I've been an Afro since birth"

Also:

"You wanna bang 'em bang 'em bang 'em 'til you can't no more
Day-dreamin, bout slidin in that Bentley door
Cuban chain tucked in so the back'll show
Whip it out in front of chicks, they react to dough
Fo' karats in each ear, lettin dude know
That homes still flow like twenty-twos of snow
Yankee over doo-rags, extra wristbands"

Relewhat?

In all seriousness, because of extremely high turn-over rate (this week's thug is next week's Celebrity Boot Camp contestant), hip hop oldies acts could become the dominant force in third-tier venues.

Nothing wrong with you, Martin, I was just saying that there's more people your age than people my age, and there are less rappers your age than rappers my age; you do the math.

and i disagree with sterling that anitcon are the adult contemporary of hip hop; they're more like the prog rock of hip hop.

They might blow up on the college circuit, but the Beasties will never be relevant to hip hop again. If it weren't for the great production on their first two albums, they never would've been relevant. Their mic skills were only marginally accepted in their prime, and now even the college hip hop head knows that nothing they're doing is particularly relevant.

Stetsa formed in 1981.

"Their mic skills were only marginally accepted in their prime,"

What who when?

Sterling, you seem to be sort of conflating "street" with "real-life struggles and experiences" -- which does nothing to differentiate hip-hop from other genres (I'm thinking specifically of country). If you're relying on street POV as the crux of your definition of hip-hop, you can't have such an all-encompassing notion of street POV.

Street = block = ghetto = central motif of black american experience right now. Lots of things happen on the street -- its the perspective brought to them that matters, and more importantly what the songs acknowledge as the center which they define themselves by, whether or not they LIMIT themselves to that, or even necessarily engage it on any particular track at all.

Like country songs can be about abortion, but they're still country. There's a topos -- a rhetorical space -- where they all play out. Country songs have bars and trucks, hip-hop songs have clubs and big trucks [at least if yr. mystikal], y'know?

Even the nappy roots or someone they're talking about something else, but still in terms of relating it to hustlin' etc.

Another way to look at it -- hip-hop has dift. subject matters, dift. beats, sometimes no rapping at all even, but it still can fit in the "hip-hop" rubric as generally accepted (i.e. "hip-hop culture" or "generation hip-hop" or etc.) Hip-hop is also a contested space, but everyone claiming the "real" means the same thing by that -- "authentic" engagement with the black american experience. Which is why "keepin' it real" in south africa means adidas just like in the bronx.

(it's all that but it's more too/you can't diferentihate cause you done read a book or two)

er, the line is "I said 'Oh hell naw!' but yet it's that too/
You can't discrimihate cause you done read a book or two'

I didn't say the "street POV" meant any of the things you mention above. I don't think that it necessarily means anything.

Street = block = ghetto = central motif of black american experience right now

Upon what do you base that equivalence? Are you aware of how many blacks in America live in middle-income suburbs?.

And what exactly do De La and the Beasties have to do with the ghetto? The former certainly comment upon it (cf. Tread Water, not Afros), but are not from there, to my knowledge.

Country songs have bars and trucks, hip-hop songs have clubs and big trucks [at least if yr. mystikal], y'know?

I'm sure you know that you're stereotyping hiphop. You're stereotyping country to the same degree.

There's a topos -- a rhetorical space -- where they all play out.

This is probably the crux of where I disagree with you. Sure, there are common strains in these genres. But clearly anyone can rap about anything. And because of that, I refuse to limit 'hiphop' to any subject matter, group or 'culture'.

Hip-hop is also a contested space, but everyone claiming the "real" means the same thing by that -- "authentic" engagement with the black american experience. Which is why "keepin' it real" in south africa means adidas just like in the bronx.

Tom Wolfe to thread.

But then WHAT IS IT? Is fred flintstone rapping about fruity pebbles hip-hop? Were the flintstones hip-hop BEFORE he did that rap? What about hendrix? Is hendrix hip-hop? Is George Bush hip-hop? Are pearl jam hip-hop?

What about rage against the machine?

What about audioslave?

What about the talking heads? or REM? or billy joel?

And anyway who sez that YOU get to define what hip-hop is? I mean very big of you to "refuse to limit" it but do you recognize any sort of contested definition of the term external to your own whim? And do you recognize what terrain that contestation is taking place over?

Or, perhaps, are you full of shit?

I meant mid-80's, and prince paul wasn't with them from the beginning, was he? I'm not 100% sure, but i seem to remember his memoir excerts from wax poetics 2 and I think that it was more towards the mid-80's when he joined them. regardless, i don't think that you could say that he's been prominent since the 70's.

Nate: "What who when?"

I wasn't around in 86' (or whatever year the beasties first dropped, let's not argue over the year) but I've never heard anyone inside of hip hop culture really compliment the beasties lyrical abilities. in fact, a lot of people consider their post-pauls boutique ish to be alt rock.

I'm not sure it needs to be anything. But if I had to define, I'd do it formally - offhand, I'd say it's rock 'n roll, post-punk and often minimal, that prizes (poly)rhythm and words(play), but is increasingly territory for a larger trend towards sonic experimentation.

And anyway who sez that YOU get to define what hip-hop is? I mean very big of you to "refuse to limit" it but do you recognize any sort of contested definition of the term external to your own whim? And do you recognize what terrain that contestation is taking place over?

I define everything for myself (and only myself, plus anyone who cares to agree). Don't you? I mean, if you're going to concede entirely to others, why express any ideas or preferences? Of course I recognize that others contest the definition. I'm not much interested in the question, and therefore not much interested in their contest. And I'm not sure what you mean about terrain, but I imagine it has something to do with your (correct) presumption that I'm white and at least moderately well-off.

Or, perhaps, are you full of shit?

It's possible. Would you concede the same?

Oh now I see the problem. I thought the title of this thread said "hip hop" but really it read "post rock" the whole time!

In defining hip-hop, I basically rely on the old KRS-One quote "Rap is something you do, hip-hop is something you live." Like it's more of an attitude, a way of looking at life & music.

There's so much stuff that definitely has a hip-hop root or "vibe" these days that doesn't have the stereotypical subject matter, doesn't have any rapping or turntabling, but still has that hip-hop soul...somewhat similarly to "punk", in that some things "punk" don't actually sound like what was originally called "punk". Just like humans music evolves.

Or, as I like to think of it, hip-hop is a virus constantly mutating so as to continue to infect even as we build up tolerances to what it used to be.

Blackalicious, J-Five, Nappy Roots, Black-Eyed Peas, Latyrx, later-period De La, there's tons of modern hip-hop right now that avoids the "profanity & street POV".

Why not? If Em rapping about how he hates his momma is hip-hop, why not Fred rapping about Fruity Pebbles?

Actually, it's young in the context of American music styles...jazz, blues, country, r & b, etc. are all in the 100 - 50 years old range now, whereas hip-hop (as well as punk and electronic stuff) are just now reaching the 25 year mark.

Your point is taken, but I wouldn't say that most of these artists aren't without some shread of "street" POV. And I'd say street was originally defined to address the black, urban experience, but it (as it has been bandied on a national level) has encompased all forms of marganalized masculinity, i.e., big pun or em.

Oh now I see the problem. I thought the title of this thread said "hip hop" but really it read "post rock" the whole time!

n.b. "rhythm" and "words"

My argt is that if you define de la et al. outside of "street" you have a very limited and narrow definition of "street"

I was trying not to define street, because I don't necessarily believe it means anything. The examples you've used to illustrate the breadth of "street" tend toward universals, to my ears. I'm playing devil's advocate here. What I really think is probably somewhere between us.

"What I really think is probably somewhere between us." is one of the more head-exploding things i've read lately (and that's even counting the tortuous threads i've been throwing down on)

I know what I want on my headstone.

I was thinking about a question similar to this thread : similar to some 60s/70s pop/rock stars who managed to release a great album (if not one of their best) late in their career, is there a rapper/rap band who did that ?
I'd say, at least 15-20 years after their debut ?
I haven't heard Jay-Z's 4:44 but I remember it received good reviews.

Blakqout and The Book Of David came out 18 and 20 years after DJ Quik's debut.

really obvious one is ATCQ's We Got It From Here... which was 26 years after their debut

e-40's revenue retrievin: graveyard/overtime albums were twenty years after debut. man's made good records since as well

scarface put out his best 15 years after the geto boys debut

it's really three questions in one I guess:
- artistically relevant: oldest who still makes good records?
- commercially relevant: oldest who can still pull crowds, i.e. kept their old fanbase on board?
- culturally relevant: oldest who still gets listened to by high school kids?

q3 is definitely interesting. I don't know any high school kids, but when I was one I listened to tons of classic rock, curious if there are kids doing the same with rap

my boy (17) listens to lots of 90s rap

heavily into 2Pac par exemple

I want to say E-40 (52) or Scarface (49) but in terms of relevance to a younger audience, it’s probably MF Doom (49). KMD’s Mr. Hood came out in ‘91 and he’s now arguably the best known of the 3. I don’t know. I love them all and may be way off.

The answer is probably something obvious and boring like Snoop.

Doom's been at it (ie mc'ing on records) since the 80s (Gasface was '89)

he’s now arguably the best known of the 3

Is this true, or is he just very popular with music critics? I'm suspicious of Doom's hip-hop cred since he's been on the cover of The Wire. I suspect Scarface and E-40 may have outsold him by a factor of 10 (especially since E-40 has so many goddamn records).

How about Dr. Dre? His recording debut was in 1985 I think, and apparently he's in the process of making an album with Kanye right now.

I was amused to discover recently that AARP did a big feature package last year on "Hip-Hop at Middle Age" (interviews with Rakim, DMC, Kurtis Blow, B-Real, Yo Yo, and RZA): https://www.aarp.org/entertainment/music/info-2019/hip-hop.html

Tuomas are you saying we...forgot about Dre?

Dre (as a producer) made it to the 15 year mark, but has he done anything remarkable in the last 17? I haven’t heard Compton.

Roc Marciano (42) (especially) and Ka (47) basically created an entire lane of current east coast underground hip hop, Marcburg is a tremendously influential album and he's definitely the father figure to the Griselda, Mach Hommy, etc scene

2 Chainz is 42

Yeah, Roc Marciano is the most aped of a large portion of the current crop and he debuted in '98 as a member of Flipmode Squad. Marcberg, along with maybe DS2 is the blueprint of the last decade.

Those Killer Mike and El-P collaborations seemed to make them pretty popular amongst a whole new generation, right? They're both 45.

Mike's debut on record was 20 years ago, El-P's 26 years ago.

yeah RTJ is a good one esp two vets joining forces late in their career

El-P is massive now and his solo single from '93 (at 17) holds up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E6YwMdya0k

Super boring and obvious answer but Marshall Mathers is approaching 50 and we're over two decades on from the first Eminem album, and he's still having number one albums.

As far as rap music more generally goes he feels completely irrelevant but then so do most of the suggestions here.

In terms of rappers who might conceivably turn up on a new record that kids listen to its probably Juicy J or Bun B or someone.

who managed to release a great album (if not one of their best) late in their career

Kool Keith is 56 and Saks 5th Ave from late last year, is made of aoty, imo

They’re not that old - late 40s/early 50s - but the Roots have managed to remain critically respected for decades now. I don’t think they have released an album in the past 20 years that could be considered a flop.

ATCQ is probably the correct answer to this question. But I’m biased because it’s a flawless comeback by probably my favorite hip hop act of all time.

wondering if a bunch of dudes in their 40s are the right people to answer this question

To answer the revive’s question, absolutely

the answer is NAV

how old is he?

i'm thinking more the question of who is relevant

how old is he?

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, May 4, 2020 4:23 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

his birth certificate says "expired" on it!

ha no, there's a 'nav so old' meme on rap twitter, he's actually about 30 years old.

This thread confuses me. Is it, 'who is the oldest rapper that (x) ilxor likes'? If that's the case then I'm all for Kool Keith; Saks 5th Ave. sounds exactly like First Come, First Served and Matthew so I like it. He's in his lane (like 40) and doing it well. Is he innovating? I don't listen closely enough to say so. I loved The Personal album for continuing in the vein of my favorite Keith which is Sex Style.
So are we asking who is the oldest best rapper or which rapper has the longest solid discography? Freddie Foxxx (51) is crazy prolific still and goes back to '86.
The Eminem argument is strong as far as continued popularity. If that's the case then let's say Naughty By Nature. Shame on you if you don't rate Naughty.
Also, Ghost is 49.

naughty by nature are still popular? havent seen anything about them in a long time

old rappers still releasing quality content that people still listen to:

E-40
Snoop (albeit it's not exactly an event)
Kool G Rap

Ka is 47 and I expect will be doing his thing low key for a long while more

Styles P is also probably gonna rap until he's early for hip-hop pension

Juvenile is probably gonna rap until his moniker is ironic, but nobody will buy it

i'm thinking more the question of who is relevant

22-year-olds are less likely to know which rappers/hha's made good albums 20 years apart than 44-year olds are imo

naughty by nature are still popular? havent seen anything about them in a long time

they appear on New Kids On The Block's recorded-in-lockdown single House Party!

cool i'm relieved we don't need to challenge the authority of middle-aged men on the value of pop culture

There's also the Hip Hop Hooray remix featuring Rita Wilson that was released earlier as well.

I'm kind of amazed that there's been not one, but two, COVID-19 inspired tracks featuring them in the past month.

You down with CVD?

NA I apologize on behalf of everyone for being born longer ago than you desire

I think referring to chart numbers as evidence of relevance works for this question.

E-40's most recent hit is "I Don't Fuck With You" which charted throughout 2015. "Law" charted pretty well in 2016 too, so he could feasibly show up on a new hit, although imo he feels like a '00s throwback artist.

2 Chainz feels like a more current/relevant artist imo. He had some prominent features in the past 2 years, although I think Juicy J wins this since he is 45 and "Powerglide" impacted only about 2 years ago.

E-40 might not show up on radio hits, if that's how we're defining relevant, but between 2009 and this year, he released about 735 albums that long time west coast fans actively anticipated, most of which got good reception in Pitchfork

He's slowed down hos output and reaction has been muted a bit critically to the last few, but dude is still pretty big even if he's not on singles.

Chainz is much bigger w/o question, but E-40 is older (52)

*his output

Juicy J is my proposed "winner" here. I should have made that more obvious. He is 45.

You could be right about E-40. American Honey when they sing along to "Yup" doesn't feel like it was that long ago.

e-40 is still a legitimizing force for young artists in the bay area--if he's on your track, it's a sign of respect from the scene.

he's still popping up on tracks with young thug, roddy ricch, etc. he's old, but definitely not a legacy artist yet.

I would like to point out that I was otm on this thread when I said Roc Marciano

wrt to Kool Keith or Doom I feel like they both became their own little world long ago, like the rock equivalent of the Fall or something

^^ new album with the Alchemist is great