the bats: C/D

(have any of youz indiekidz heard the rotor+ remix of "north by north"? it's great!)

I rather disagree.

And 5% more sexy.

.5%, I'll grant.

Matters not. More people outside NZ have heard The Bats than in it. To be honest, most people I met in a year of living in NZ wouldn't know a decent band if it bit them on the arse.

Anyone heard Robert Scott's album of NZ folk tunes BTW?

even Messr Cave's intervention couldn't free them from unfair contract!

(um, I have a lot to say re: FN & overseasers, but it's more of an essay thing)

the fuck does this mean?

Schwip, how old are you? I'm not asking this in a demeaning way. I'm generally curious if there is a new generation of folks in NZ who have, somehow, taken the mid-to-late 80s FN roster very bitterly for some reason. That seriously interests me, and doesn't necessarily sadden me, unless someone makes really lame sweeping generalizations/insults about people who DO like these bands like you and apparently others are making.

To answer your question: what if the Bats weren't from NZ. Jeez.. hmmm, um what if Coldplay were from Germany? What if Creed were from Namibia? How to hell am I supposed to answer these questions? Alternate-universe questions poised as refutations make no sense at all.

i say this despite being not too impressed with the new record - sure there are some nice new tracks, but it feels a little half-baked... also - alastair was totally under-utilized.

The Bats have this particular gift for a wistful melody that I've always liked a lot, though I haven't listened in quite some time.

Maybe there's no reason to it, that's just how I feel about them, I would never say my opinion is representative of any rejection of "the mid-to-late 80s FN roster". They seem pretty well established as iconic "world famous in new zealand" types that I've never actually heard anyone listening to.

xpost - the abover is responding 2 tha iDonut

Also, I think it's a bit less crass to insult a product than to insult an artist. But now I'm getting to the splitting hairs part, admittedly.

young david kilgour is k-fvcking-hott, his brother ain't so bad, but bob scott has always been a minger.

Haven't heard the new one yet.

-- paulhw (pppso...), November 6th, 2005 11:51 PM. (paulhw) (later)

What a load of bollocks.

Apart from the bit about Block of Wood being their best song, it probably is my favourite.

So what's the deal with the Wedding Present/Bats thing, and why should it matter as far as one liking/disliking their music? I don't see the Bats as a Wedding Present rip-off by any means, if that's what you were aiming for.

I heard the Bats on National Radio yesterday.

I think the new album is great, and perfect for clearing my mind and relaxing. Like a warm blanket indeed.

robert scott has some new tracks up, including some co-written, weirdly, with adalita from magic dirt

http://www.myspace.com/robertscottx

this new album is really good!

I understand why people dismiss the Bats as NZ milquetoast indie. Their sound is generic jangle pop, not nearly as interesting as some other Flying Nun Bands. However, I do love the first two EPs; Bats by Night and Here Is Music by the Fireside because they sound more off and askew. Maybe that's attributable to Alastair Galbraith's violin work which pushes the music into more drone and less jangle. The only song on "Daddy's Highway" that recaptures that sound is "North By North." The rest of the album is not nearly as strong.

I'd be interested to hear which FN bands Paul likes, if any.

Yeah, I like quite a lot. The idea of the Bats still leaves me feeling like I'm drying my pajama bottoms by a two-bar heater in a boring wintry smoggy Chch smog suburb, but stuff I adore (and listen to a lot) includes:

Bailter Space - all albums, but Thermos and Vortura-era especially. Robot World is also great.
Verlaines - from Hallelujah through to Way out where. Five of my most cherished albums right there. Is their new stuff any good?
Chills - a little bit. Parts of Brave Words and Kaleidoscope World are terrific, but parts veer into Bats / Abel Tasmans / Look Blue Go Purple type awfulness.
Straitjacket Fits - Hail. The rest is a bit shit. Shayne Carter was never as verge-of-world-domination as the NZ press liked to suggest, but he was OK. Shit like Cat inna can was bad.
3Ds - all their stuff is so much fun.
Some Skeptics. Some Gordons. Some Tall Dwarfs, but getting past Chris Knox's dickish personality is hard. Yeah actually he's awful.

So Bailter Space, Verlaines. Also a band called This will kill that, but they weren't FN.

I didn't keep up much after I left NZ in 1996...it seems that they moved more towards a Garageland / American-Australian indie direction by the mid 90s?

Oh yeah meant to add that The Clean's "Compilation" is probably 2nd only to Buzzcock's "Going Steady" as the most essential band comp ever. For some reason I never bothered with their albums and eps, and Kilgour's stuff is boring as hell.

and Kilgour's stuff is boring as hell

this is preposterous. i'd say most of the three members' best work has been done outside of the clean, which i suppose is more a function of comparable volume. 'here come the cars' is one of the most classic records ever.

yeah Kilgour's solo records (at least the ones I've heard) are actually brilliant, in a low key way.

and Kilgour's stuff is boring as hell.

Yeah, a really stupid comment. I'd reckon Here Come The Cars to be one of the top 5 all-time classic rock albums to have never been released in America. It's a nearly perfect record, sublime in every way. It's got a little bit of that low-key charm that Love's Forever Changes does, in that it seems pretty mellow at first, but really gets under your skin until you just imagine it being any other way. Most of the rest of his albums are pretty good, but the Ajax one is utterly disposable, aside from a moment or two.

The Far Now (his last one) was great, though the songs might've been even better live.

i'll have to get Here Come the Cars -- never heard it!

Opinions etc. But if you like Forever Changes...yeah, nuff...

the bats: C/D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X1faAqRrCs

this new album is really good!

it really is. probably my favourite since law of things.

Really? I find it just sort of there. "Couchmaster" was the last thing they did that knocked my socks off.

I realize that the influence runs the other way, but The Guilty Office reminds me a lot of Yung Wu, much moreso than older Bats stuff. I agree with those who say this is a really good album. I always like their stuff, but this one grabbed me more than recent ones have.

Magicks Heads "Before We Go Under" better than almost anything the Bats did. Well, at least today it seems that way...

daddy's highway > before we go under > other bats records

imo

but yes it's a really great record, and the female singer (whose name i can't recall) suits the songs well

Ok, I'm down with that ranking.

Magick Heads is sort of like bured treasure in my collection - I forget about them and when I dig them out it's fantastic.

god 'Daddy's Highway' rules so hard. have to dig that one out now

I've been looking for a vinyl copy of 'Couchmaster' for like three years

Upthread somebody asked if the recent Verlaines records are good or not. The most recent one that I'm aware of is 'Pot Boiler,' and it is the only thing they've done that I dislike.

Daddy's Highway remains one of the great understated quirky pop records. Severe classic.

daddy's highway > before we go under > other bats records

I think I'd agree in terms of proper longplayers, although Compiletely might even have had most spins here. This is pleasantly surprising though; I've don't recall ever reading anything (praise or otherwise) about the Magick Heads. Did anyone hear their 2nd and 3rd records?

the 2nd Magick Heads record 'woody' is great. it starts off slow but around the fourth song it turns terrific. it seems as if it is more of a jane sinnott record as i think she took on more of the songwriting. i could be wrong. the 3rd record is a compilation though they left off their most famous song but it is rather good too and it has a few more of the songs they did with the dave's from the 3ds. i am not much for the most recent bats record. it is a bit dull. new minisnap ep is out. i think.

i came in with low expectations for the guilty office but i feel it's a pretty good record, if not especially mind blowing..

nned 'Couchmaster' on vinyl ... very much seeking, will pay reasonable price, thx

also, I didn't need to say it , but of course this band rules all time!!!!

(now about that 'Couchmaster' vinyl ... :-) )

Seems that there's about tot be a bunch of reissuing and remastering of the early stuff. Hope that Daddy doesn't get transformed from a sleepy gem to a monster of rock in the process. And it'd also be a treat if they found a way to get the "North by North" 12" and its amazing b-sides into the light of day. It was left of Compiletley, but it's some of their best stuff, especially "Get Fat," which has all the hooks and a little more muscle than the other early material. And I'll put in a vote for "Passed By" off the "Smoking her Wings" 7"; it's the loveliest thing I've heard by them, or pretty much anyone.

The "North by North" 12" is actually called the Four Songs EP, if anyone out there starts searching for it....

Good news, I've been looking to get Daddy's Highway for years, think it's been reissued a few times but they always seem to be gone by the time I notice. Or perhaps I keep reading it's going to be reissued and it never actually comes out?

I finally tracked down some flacs of Compiletely, which sounds like it was ripped from vinyl. Love it! I'd buy the reissues of that and Daddy's Highway. Seems like the Thousands Of Tiny Luminous Spheres comp would be enough for the later stuff.

So according to Amazon.co.uk the Daddy's Highway reissue came out May 2011 and is already of stock. WTF Flying Nun do you not want people to own this album or what?

i hope it was remastered--i have an old cd (on Communion, i think?) that sounds crappy--although, i played the vinyl a few weeks ago and it sounded thin and tinny too, so... but w/e it's a great album.

Thanks for bumping this thread, listening to "Compiletely" for the first time in years. "Earwig" is such a great, goofy left-field song. But this is just filled with gem after gem. "Mad On You", the driving "Claudine", "I Go Wild". I'm in a kiwi state of mind after spinning Able Tasmans "A Cuppa Tea" earlier.

All killer no filler for sure.

after thinking the last couple sorta dud the new album is really beautiful. at times it reminds me more of the magick heads than the bats.

US (North American?) tour now. Looking forward to seeing them live.

saw them live last night! wish they'd played longer, so much pretty guitar playing

Love this band, psyched to see them in a couple of weeks.

Anyone going to make it to the Hoboken show with me?

Going to the Washington D.C. show tonight

Oh they were so good on Monday!! Have fun.

Did they have t-shirts?

Errr, yes? I only remember tote bags

I've heard from buds out east that they've perhaps sold out of t-shirts, but Robert Scott is selling his artworks for $50 a pop.

Yes to artwork, but I saw a t-shirt taped to the wall last night with some sort of generic expression on it ("Ooh" or something in big letters, I forget). Not sure if that was a Bats shirt. CDs for $15, vinyl for varying prices.

They encored with "Block of Wood" and "North by North." The strumming and jangling was sublime as were the ocassional harmonies. Before the opener, D.C.'s Dot Dash came on, I was sitting in a diner like booth in the room when a guy asked if he could sit on the other side of the table in the booth. I said sure. He had a manila folder filled with sheets of paper, some of which he took out. Each sheet was filled with columns of words. Yep, it was Robert Scott with his songlists and lyric sheet hints. He had them at his feet during the gig, and grabbed 'em at the end and put them back in his folder. He also sang all night with gum in his mouth. Virtually everyone who was ever in a DC area Slumberland band was in the crowd, along with assorted local scribes and djs.

They said they last played DC in 1992; but I don't remember them ever playing DC nor did someone else I spoke to.

On a Trouser Press forum thread, folks were pointing out that Scott isn't an active, vibrant frontman, not sure you need an Iggy Pop or Springsteen for the type of material the Bats play.

rad, gonna see them in Seattle, last saw him playing solo at the library in Dunedin a few years back.

yeah, the bass player was doing most of the crowd interaction when I saw them, but they all looked pretty happy. and they sounded great!

Wtf is Robert Scott supposed to be doing, other than standing and playing and singing and wearing a hat?

Only occurred to me a couple of weeks ago, actually, that the Bats and the Feelies share a certain DNA. I've always heard a lot of Eno-covering-"What Goes On" in Scott's vocals, which jibes with the Feelies vibe, too.

dang i would love to see them, but they're not coming anywhere near me...
ps bats fans might dig this:
http://osr-tapes.com/images/gw.jpg
Send Away: Gordon Wallace is Robert Scott (the Clean, the Bats, Electric Blood, etc.)
he originally released this album on his tape label EST in 1987
23 songs in a soft style, an early version of "Mastery" by the Bats
what can I say, I really like it. "how many hunters can really shoot?"
artwork by Robert Scott. 60 minutes.
http://osr-tapes.com/

Dear Private Press types,

Stop releasing cassette-only things.

Thanks!

haha, well, you can go download it for free at that link too, which is nice.

Thanks for the tip- I had been eyeing that cassette and debated whether it made any sense to order it.

They were so good at The Bell House in Brooklyn last weekend. So gorgeous and moving to hear those songs live and everyone was so happy. One guy kept on going "I can't believe I'm hearing this guitar sound live" between every song which 99% of the time would be hopelessly obnoxious but came off really sweet and endearing cuz everyone was just flowin' on the good vibes.

ditto

When I saw them in Texas a few years back, I was enjoying the hell out of myself when this dude behind me, caught up in the moment, did one of those crazy two-finger whistles inches from my ear. Pure instinct, I whipped around and yelled "knock it the fuck off!!!" He was really apologetic and I felt really bad, but it was still an awesome show.

Excellent Chicago show last night! Kaye is such a great, subtle guitar player - whole band seemed to be on fire to play and enjoy the moment... Sure hope boot turns out ok.

boot?

Do you think they all work dayjobs when not touring?

I wonder this about almost every single artist I listen to.

Although this doesn't stop me from listening to musicians on Spotify from whom they receive only tiny payments

Pretty sure Paul and Kaye are a) married and b) academics.

They were great last night. Place was totally oversold, though.

Nice piece linked on Wiki: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/music/news/article.cfm?c_id=264&objectid=3515497

Wonder how much cash the bast get for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD2UP2dZcOs

yeah - totally oversold - which doesn't happen too often for Schubas (small blessings) ... I was back near the door and when they opened it up and the bar noise came in, a bit, I was a little bummed. Then I saw that it was a pretty old couple sitting on stools - they probably couldn't fight the masses inside and the doorguy was just doing them a solid ...

Wow, I just walking home and much to my surprise I heard them sound checking "Smoking Her Wings" from a club I normally don't pass by... I freaked out and poked my head in and got yelled at for trying to take a picture. I have plans tonight but maybe I should try to check this out...

They said they last played DC in 1992; but I don't remember them ever playing DC nor did someone else I spoke to.

― curmudgeon, Thursday, June 6, 2013 6:19 AM (1 week ago)

Possibly? I know they played SF around then with Barbara Manning/SF Seals/TFUL282 opening. In fact, they stayed at Barbara's apartment that night and Robert wrote this (totally awesome) song for her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsfW6QmL_zc

Huh, I think I'd only heard the Magick Heads version.

Supposedly the last time they'd played Chicago was 20 years ago.

I discovered that a critic I know reviewed a Bats album for the Washington Post in 1993, so he thinks they appeared in DC then.

I think they did "Smoking Her Wings" in DC this time.

they were stellar saturday night in los angeles. crystalline. one thing that struck me seeing them live is that there's an unusually clear division of labor among the four of them, especially the two guitarists. those guitars are wielded as two very different instruments, and they lock so beautifully together.

there's a new 3-disc comp called Volume 1 - early material, eps, b-sides, etc. available on spotify.

tho i had 95% of it already it's been nice having these tracks back on rotation

14 bonus tracks, a nice package for $25!

Just saw "The Law Of Things" reissue at the store the other day. Definitely will get that one soon.

the other day = yesterday, actually

The only album I heard from them was Free All the Monsters. It was a top ten album of the year for me. For some reason I haven't yet explored their back catalog yet, though. I need to rectify that, especially if all their albums "sound the same" as described way up thread. I'll take more of the same from them.

Compiletely Bats is a good place to start. I think the new reissue has a version of Block of Wood on it as well.

2 versions

(2 demo versions i mean)

New Robert Scott album, "The Green House" is very good... but... I feel like I've heard this all before. It's my problem, but I can't help thinking David Kilgour's solo albums are just off-kilter enough to keep me coming back.

I like it a lot. The duets with Hollie Fullbrook add a wonderful distinction. But true, I dunno if I'd be so taken if it were just Robert on vox for the entire lp.

Agreed, the duets are the standouts, especially the opening track. An entire album like that would be killer.

Somehow didn't even know that Minisnap existed, or when they released an album, but it's predictably lovely.

It is! Kaye needs to do more singing.

New album! It's great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfiO9iqpGoY

I'm as psyched these guys keep killing it as I am with theoretical peers the Feelies.

On the Robert Scott solo tip here but he's been busy this past week on Bandcamp!

https://robertscottnz.bandcamp.com/album/deep-set-demos

https://robertscottnz.bandcamp.com/album/moonlight-potato-robert-scott-gina-rocco

https://robertscottnz.bandcamp.com/album/live-in-m-nster-gleis-22-robert-scott-the-wilde

https://robertscottnz.bandcamp.com/album/live-in-wellington-bar-bodega-2000-harmonic-deluxe

"Red Car," from the new one :')

Wow, a new one! I had no idea. Happy Saturday!

When I got onto the Clean a month ago, a couple of people recommended the Bats. Burned and listened to Daddy's Highway twice in the car today, and yes, quite liked it.

would recommend checking out Couchmaster, and you might also like the Magick Heads records.

also "Smoking Her Wings" is worth hearing if you haven't already - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9D6xqMI3NA

All of their albums (and pretty much offshoots, too) are pretty good. Though they're also one of those bands where for some the first album (Daddy's Highway) is enough. But if you like one you'll probably like them all. Albums like "Couchmaster" are maybe a tiny bit more diverse? "Silverbeet," too. This is one of many gems:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YLTPCOMXss

Glad you like it clemenza!

Yeah The Bats are super consistent however some albums grab me and some don't. The Law of Things never really clicked for instance, but by no means do I dislike it. Definitely just a preference for some tunes over others among a perfectly solid discography.

I will say At The National Grid, on the other hand, TOTALLY clicked. Love that one a lot as well (favorite along with Daddy's Highway).

Here's my favorite Magick Heads song, since that came up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glTwigeLC_Y

This is lovely, but no surprise there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRB7wdr-rOU

I also love that album cover.

Thanks for the recommendations; I'll do some more investigation for sure. Someone labelled them power-pop earlier in this thread. Even with a more liberal net when it comes to that term than most people, I wouldn't classify them as such. Not a criticism--I just don't hear them as sounding like what that implies. I was thinking more of, I don't know, maybe the Vaselines, or the Mekons of Fear and Whiskey?

They're definitely folky and poppy, that's for sure. Maybe even a little twee at times. I wouldn't call them power-pop. Something like the Vaselines may not be a terrible comparison (though of course the Bats came much earlier!). I've always thought the Bats (not least because of Bob Scott's vocals) reminded me of some of Eno's early material. Stuff like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03-EJBnzW1A

I've been listening to Daddy's Highway too, and while the whole thing's pleasant I wish there were a few more intense moments like "Had to Be You" and "North by North". Also there's a thinness of "personality" in this music (and lyrics, in as much as I can hear them) - after five or six listens I don't feel I know anything about these people, other than that they like (making) pleasant music.

Flying Nun acts always seemed to keep the emotions a little distant. Not too much angst-ridden heart-on-the-sleevery, for which I'm quite thankful. Must be in the Kiwi character!

I can see what you mean about that thinness of personality - I find them quite shyly charismatic on stage and in interviews, but it doesn't come out in the music really. Having said that I think the smallness of the vox and simplicity of the lyrics gets across a sort of communal melancholy / homespun despair about something ineffable. So I actually don't really love things like North By North where they get kind of drowned in unearned bombast, I prefer the warmer, more ramshackle stuff, everyday drama and longing.

Here's "Neighbours", a lovely example of what I'm talking about, always moves me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoLt_qcWj_k

Or "By Night", which is a bit peppier but still has that sore heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_juMjNep9F0

The bass is really alive in that one.

Matt #2 makes a good observation about Flying Nun bands not doing too much existential angst. Without projecting too much, there's a lot of empathy in the music that may come from the spirit of community and camaraderie, with people's parents and families quite closely involved and supportive, and most bands not having one central (tragic) figure. That kind of community doesn't lend itself to mythologising the pain of the solitary artist (even if may have been no shortage of it).

There are a lot of songs that are quite good at sketching someone else's despair rather than claiming it for oneself. More of observing "you" than experiencing "I". Am thinking of "Born in the Wrong Time" by the Great Unwashed, some of the Verlaines' less smart-arsed character studies, some Chills stuff.

there's a lot of empathy in the music

I think this is very OTM, and may stem from the bands' environments, both literal and metaphoric. Especially on the south island, that remoteness, the proximity to nature (and especially winter/snow/cold) leads a lot of Flying Nun bands to express both pleasantly bucolic vibes but also a quiet sort of sadness for the state of things in nature. And then on the former count, yeah, the community in which they share a lot of the same experiences, positive and negative, I think does come across in the music as generally empathetic, even at its most melancholy. That is to say, warm or twee or gentle or celebratory, rarely outright aggressive or confrontational (as confrontational as acts like Chris Knox or even the Clean could be, in their own respective ways), lonely but not necessarily alone, kind of in the Charlie Brown Christmas sense.

I like many songs, but these are my favourites from the first three albums: "Treason," "Tragedy," "Had to Be You," "Mastery," "Nine Days," "Watch the Walls," "You Know We Shouldn't." Very in sync with my mood as of late.

Just holding up my hand for <i>Free All The Monsters</i>, a latter-day album that is the best overall record in their canon IMO. The Bats-curious will also find <i>Thousands of Tiny Luminous Spheres</i>. a sort-of-best of, to be a strong intro to the best of their 20th century work.

Oh god, it's been so long since I posted here I forgot how italics tags work, sorry.

Plan to keep working my through their albums for as long as they're still good, which so far they are.

Let me add "Jetsam" to the above list. When the singer (don't know names yet) gets to the lines "It's such a waste now" and "And now you're face down," he sounds just like Ian Curtis!

Huh, Martin Phillips on the Bats' "Offside" via a Radio New Zealand 'The Song I Wish I'd Wrote' feature:

Martin Phillips from The Chills wishes he wrote 'Offside' by The Bats.

Phillips thinks he must have first heard 'Offside' when it first came out in the 1980s.

Songs by The Bats were often "pretty upbeat" and positive, he says, but 'Offside 'was something else, striking him as a different, beautiful and "lowkey number".

He believes the song is about those days when you're young and just feel a bit hopeless.

"This song seems to be dealing with that."

(via https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/music101/audio/2018889690/nzmm-special-the-song-i-wish-i-d-written-part-two )

Always thought "Offside" was an amazing album closer.

Why isn't everyone listening to the Bats all the time?

because The Chills exist as well? (no shade on the bats tbh)

Well, I guess that's true. And the Tall Dwarves, and the Clean and all sorts of stuff in that orbit, but I find the Bats closest to the comfort of a nice warm blanket and a campfire.

That's v fair. Been awhile since hearing them, thx 4 reminder!

A few Bats-related interviews from Radio New Zealand earlier in the year:

Musicians who paint: The Bats’ Robert Scott plays Fast Favourites and remembers Hamish Kilgour
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/culture-101/audio/2018929301/musicians-who-paint-the-bats-robert-scott-plays-fast-favourites-and-remembers-hamish-kilgour

The Mixtape: The Bats’ Paul Kean

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/the-mixtape/audio/2018939945/the-mixtape-the-bat-s-paul-kean

(Aldous Harding - Imagining My Man, the Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows, Jay Clarkson and the Containers - Children of the Rule, Can - She Brings the Rain, Brian Eno - St Elmos Fire, Lee Scratch Perry - Above and Beyond)

If people missed the Sundae Painters album (Paul & Kaye from the Bats, Alec from Tall Dwarfs, and Hamish from the Clean (RIP)), it's lovely:

https://sundaepainters.bandcamp.com/album/sundae-painters

Had no idea about the Sundae Painters, thanks!

10 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2USP0kwiJw

New album, new single!

https://thebats.bandcamp.com/album/corner-coming-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ9wkSsk9Nk