OPO: Cream

I've noticed that so far "I'm So Glad" hasn't had any takers. :)

Strongly agree with Sundar's comment regarding cool ass tunes ruined by cheesy lyrics. I mean they sound ridiculous even compared to the worst of psychedelia. Like they make Tommy James (who I really like) sound like a genius...

Anyway, Strange Brew is pretty cool.
I

bomp bomp bomp ba-bomp bomp. bomp bomp bomp ba-bomp I FEEL FREE

Can't bring myself to pull the trigger on anything in the itunes store, but next time I'm at my dad's, I'm going to burn his copy of Strange Brew: The Very Best of Cream. I had that on the b-side of a C-90 with Nevermind. Power trios!

OPO: Tales of Brave Ulysses

Beware of Mr. Baker

The 2CD Gold anthology from 2005 is excellent. The first disc is studio stuff, the second is live.

Strange choice I know, but "Anyone for tennis" is my pick. It's so slightly wrong around the edges, and it's not the blues, and the lyrics aren't too bad, and the video is very odd - something about nailed down frogs?

I always liked that one.

So many, but "Passing the Time."

I peeked at this two-year old bio Jack Bruce: Composing Himself, but it looks pretty hagiographic so it doesn't seem worth owning.

Probably "As You Said" for the proggier stuff, and "SWLABR" as far as the heavy ones go. On the whole, though, considering their talents, I think they should've made better records than they did.

Tales of Brave Ulysses

Watched Beware of Mr Baker last night. NO idea Baker's career was so peripatetic (and his personal life so pathetic). Would love to have seen a concentration on his Fela period: was Baker part of those Nigerian social revolutionary forces?

Would he still have been playing at the elite polo club if he was?

Wish that was playing within a day's driving distance; trailer looks amazing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyFDI_Zw4RE

man, I can't watch that right now, but Lars Ulrich looks like Rosie O'donnell in that still.

Sounds like R. Meltzer narrating the "case of beer and 2 black hookers" animation.

(and his personal life so pathetic)

The part in the trailer about "He shouldn't have had kids" is o_O enough until you realize the person saying it is his son.

Wait until you find out about his second wife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb-zUvQMO5I

For Yasgur's Farm

R.I.P. Jack Bruce:

(from http://www.jackbruce.com)

It is with great sadness that we, Jack’s family, announce the passing of our beloved Jack: husband, father, granddad, and all round legend. The world of music will be a poorer place without him, but he lives on in his music and forever in our hearts.

RIP :(

RIP :(

woof. sad.

RIP

Songs For A Tailor, man, Songs For A Tailor.

RIP

tbh used to be a little down on his signature fuzzyfart tone, but man he had some much going on musically, great time, great ideas, great singing and playing at the same time. Even grew to love that tone, although one should handle with care when emulating. There were a couple of projects he appeared on isolated tracks amongst other guests- thinking of some Golden Palominos records and the recordings that accompanied the James Jamerson book, Standing in the Shadows of Motown- and in those contexts he towered liked a giant, you could feel the needle jump into the red when he showed up.

(xpost with my new screenname)

otm. I kind of liked his tone, though, as the fuzziness managed to avoid the slick braahk-braahk of most fretless electric players.

Songs For A Tailor, man, Songs For A Tailor.

RIP

― Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, October 25, 2014 1:00 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this. When every band in Britain was trying to do their version of Music From Big Pink and living in communal thatched-roof cottages and swearing off LSD, Bruce topped them all with "Theme From An Imaginary Western."

RIP. I'm glad Cream got to get back together

The West, Bruce & Laing albums are pretty great, especially Live 'n' Kickin'. Only the debut, Why Doncha, is on Spotify, though.

I never really checked all the songwriting credits, but I always suspected it was Bruce who was key to the side of Cream I most loved--the sometimes sinister, sometimes pretty psychedelic side, "Tales of Brave Ulysses" and the two big hits and "Passing the Time" and other things. I know he wrote the former. I didn't get much out of Songs for a Tailor when I downloaded it a couple of years ago, but I'll give it another try.

I rescreened listened to Songs For A Tailor earlier tonight. In the liner notes, Bruce talks about wanting to work beyond Cream, using both more subtle guitar and drums alongside strings, horns, and keyboards. To me that's the key to the album, because the songs are able to shine without being subject to the three-way duels between Clapton, Bruce & Baker that basically so many Cream songs really are.

Right. There is a kind of Money Jungle quality to most of their output.

I'm pretty far from being a 'rockist' and don't wanna come off as one of these stodgy "is nothing sacred??!" cats but it sorta bugged me that the announcement of Bruce's Death on Pfork is printed in regular 10pt font beneath the top headline about Drake "dropping three new tracks."

Man, RIP. Disraeli Gears is such a fantastically weird album, and he was such a great, melodic bassist. Always thought he was sort of an underrated lyricist as well, not amazing or anything but capable of memorable imagery, even if the words didn't make any sense.

I love "Tales of Brave Ulysses" but it was written by Clapton and Martin Sharp.

Oops...proving I really don't check. So much for my theory on What I Love About Cream.

Also, didn't Pete Brown write a lot of those Cream lyrics?

Yes, including "White Room"

I wonder who the weakest link was in Cream. All 3 have their pros and cons.

RIP. I'm glad Cream got to get back together

Clapton's the weak link for me, and I actually like his playing on those records (even/especially the live stuff). But I can't help but wonder what Cream would've been like with Richard Thompson in Clapton's place.

xp

She Walks Like Bearded Richard (Thompson)

Looked over the songwriting credits on Wikipedia, and these are my favourite Bruce (and usually Brown) songs: "N.S.U.," "Sunshine of Your Love," "White Room," "Deserted Cities of the Heart," and "Doin' That Scrapyard Thing." They all sound really gloomy and druid-like, far away from their blues covers (Clapton's influence, I'm guessing...maybe they're not so far away), except for "Scrapyard," which is really sprightly and in the running for my favourite Cream song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzcPVCzfZMM

The two Live Cream LPs bang.

BADGE.

she cried away her life since she fell out the cradle

we move like the sea

i'll stay with you till my sea's all dried up

strange brew. Nicely captures all the things they were good at and doesn't overstay its welcome.

Driving in my car, smoking my cigar,
The only time I'm happy's when I play my guitar.

i'll stay with you till my sea's all dried up

This "Live from Detroit '67/ Live at the Grande Ballroom" radio broadcast recording by Cream from October of '67 is really, really good. They play with a really total madcap abandon and it is probably the most intense Clapton playing. Sound quality is pretty decent for the time too, pretty comparable with say a Dick's Pick collection.

MC5 was one of the opening acts at this gig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDSugBduE4k&list=PLYCCW7ubODkJZf1FkCtOzkQhDhd1IzeSm&index=4&t=0s

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/sep/26/cream-ginger-baker-critically-ill

Ginger Baker has died. Wild and brilliant are two of the kinder adjectives they might have used.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/oct/06/ginger-baker-wild-and-brilliant-cream-drummer-dies-aged-80

Wild anyway.

disraeli gears is still a great album, and baker gurvitz army remains underrated.

his lasting legacy is probably 'beware of mr baker,' tho.

Kind of agree with this. Who else would start combination Jazz & Polo club so he would have a place to play?

Double Bass Drums too, although Keith Moon beat him to 'em.

I guess too he was the first Rock band player to do drum solos?

His album with Fela is superb but agree everything is overshadowed by Beware of Mr Baker. Sure, the filmmaker got a broken nose but he also baked into celluloid (if it needed proving) that Ginger was a sociopath.

first Baker Gurvitz Army record is great!

The documentary is on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7h8CqYXEx0

over and over, he said "I can throw down with Tony Williams, Elvin Jones et al, no other rock guys can swing, but I can!" Yet, while he used patterns that drummers would use to swing, he never really did, that I heard. I liked listening to him for his overpowering tastelessness…

The live Cream albums are fun to listen to for the absolute, heedless lack of sensitivity and interest each guy has in the other two. Jack Bruce famously was turned up so loud that when the other guys stopped playing, he kept going; maybe he couldn't hear anyone else, or maybe he didn't care…those albums also have examples where he is way way way the fuck out of tune for long streches… friend of mine said today, "now Ginger and Jack can not listen to each other in suckass blues jam heaven."

Why did Baker leave Lagos? Documentary materials hype his journey down there to set up the recording studio, but they never explain what caused him to leave Nigeria. One obituary posted today says he eventually lost control of the studio. Was it money or political issues?

In the documentary it seems like the record industry (largely British-controlled at that point) got the government to shut him down.

over and over, he said "I can throw down with Tony Williams, Elvin Jones et al, no other rock guys can swing, but I can!" Yet, while he used patterns that drummers would use to swing, he never really did, that I heard. I liked listening to him for his overpowering tastelessness…

I almost paraphrased this last on the Obit Thread.

Elvin otm. Baker was probably the best drummer Hawkwind ever had, kind of a low bar though.

Elvin Jones otm

Baker was the worst sounding of the 60s name drummers

I love that Elvin quote.

Mick Jagger
@MickJagger
·
3h
Sad news hearing that Ginger Baker has died, I remember playing with him very early on in Alexis Korner’s Blues Incorporated. He was a fiery but extremely talented and innovative drummer.
My fave thing with his input is one of the first and best CDs I bought, No Material, with him listed as leader,ears say for commercial purposes: live with Sonny Sharrock, Peter Brotzmann, Nicky Skopelitis, Jan Kazda (last minute sub for Laswell,hence the title). Unperson reminded me there's at least/most one other gig recorded, but this line-up last long.

didn't last long.

Yeah, those two gigs were all there ever was, I think. There's a great quote from Charlie Watts in the documentary - he says basically that every time you heard a new band from Ginger it was amazing, and you'd want it to go on forever, but then it would blow up after a week.

Just listened to Disraeli Gears a few nights ago. Classic album.

Track down "Gonks go Beat", a terrible movie. The producers clearly had no idea what they were doing, and accidentally added some really good bits with Graham Bond and Ginger Baker to the fore, in a movie that was otherwise aiming for the Cliff Richard teenager market (non existant at that point)

is it just sunday, or does ILM consider Ginger a rockist (or a jazzisit?) so beneath contempt that his death is not worth noting?

Wasn’t it already noted? And continuing to be noted?

Cream are not really what you'd call big favourites on ILM.

I hate his playing on the Blind Faith album too.

It's come to something when Jack Bruce is the nice guy in your band

Ginger is accorded the same respect as various other prickly musical characters we have known-Lou Reed, Alex Chilton, to name two- although perhaps his musical output is less highly regarded across the board.

I've been cheerleading for Cream on here for years. In all honesty, though, I think my longstanding Cream fandom--going back 40 years to high school--is largely tied in with Clapton and Bruce. I don't know--I'm probably taking Baker's drumming for granted, and maybe he had a hand in writing some of my favourite songs.

According to the doc, he’s responsible for the 5/4 part of White Room

I don't think we should him or other members of Blind Faith for the way the album turned out: apparently the label rush-released it, and maybe fiddled with it, before the musos considered it finished. Which probably added to my impression of prematurely old men doing music therapy in a rundown, but still clinical halfway house or prison: proto-metal is the term we have now that I think of it in terms of, as a fan of early Sabs for instance,

Ginger Baker does have the most varied discography of any of the classic UK drummers of that era. He did eventually make quite a few jazz records. The music he did with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden is cool. There are some nice videos of that group on YT. I really like that Masters of Reality cd he did, but how that ended up was pretty sad (kinda Spinal Tap moment for Baker).

The Blind Faith album is probably best approached as an EP--although sometimes the mood does strike for "Do What You Like".

Cream sucks, this guy was an asshole, the album w fela is good. The end.

It's come to something when Jack Bruce is the nice guy in your band

― living in the heart of the beat (Matt #2)

Hey now, Eric Clapton did eventually apologize for being a fascist. That seems like a pretty low bar but look at how few people who embrace fascism ever manage to clear it!

Have we done a TS on Cream vs. the Police?

"Toad" is indefensible and is, I'd argue, the proximate cause of any number of interminable '70s rock drum solos.

over and over, he said "I can throw down with Tony Williams, Elvin Jones et al, no other rock guys can swing, but I can!" Yet, while he used patterns that drummers would use to swing, he never really did, that I heard. I liked listening to him for his overpowering tastelessness…

The live Cream albums are fun to listen to for the absolute, heedless lack of sensitivity and interest each guy has in the other two. Jack Bruce famously was turned up so loud that when the other guys stopped playing, he kept going; maybe he couldn't hear anyone else, or maybe he didn't care…those albums also have examples where he is way way way the fuck out of tune for long streches… friend of mine said today, "now Ginger and Jack can not listen to each other in suckass blues jam heaven."

― veronica moser, Sunday, October 6, 2019 12:42 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

otm and lol @ yr friend

So sad to note the passing of Ginger Baker. With Jack Bruce & Eric, he was a game-changer in Cream in the 60s and a fabulous drummer. Here's a photo I took of the three of them together when they visited Eric & me in the 70s. pic.twitter.com/jjT65KfclF

— Pattie Boyd (@thepattieboyd) October 7, 2019

Happy days are here again.

Hey now, Eric Clapton did eventually apologize for being a fascist.

he did? last I heard he said he regretted some of his comments but his views were the same, Enoch Powell was right

Happy days are here again.

Clapton’s bizarre outburst, which helped spur the Rock Against Racism movement, saw him labeled a racist for many years, and he has subsequently apologized many times, blaming his addiction to drink and drugs for the outburst.

The musician reveals in the film that he would drink a bottle of cognac by midday, before snorting cocaine from a knife at lunch.

The singer said last night that watching the unedited footage, which is included in Lili Zanuck’s new film out next month, left him newly “disgusted” with himself for his “chauvinistic” and “fascistic” comments on stage.

According to the Daily Mail he added: “I sabotaged everything I got involved with.”

He said: “I was so ashamed of who I was, a kind of semi-racist, which didn’t make sense. Half of my friends were black, I dated a black woman, and I championed black music.”

The musician reveals in the film that he would drink a bottle of cognac by midday, before snorting cocaine from a knife at lunch.

Never did Michael Gove's career any harm tbf.

his views were the same, Enoch Powell was right

Is there a quote for this?

Wikipedia summarises his political opinions. It's a while ago now but in 2007 he said he's not a racist but Enoch Powell's comments were still "relevant"

i think EC is creeping closer to actual public contrition and full disavowal, maybe the 50th anniversary is the date to watch for

well, he's not apologizing to me, so i can't judge whether it was sincere or not!

W/r/t Ginger, as lots of people have said a great drummer, but I don't think of him as a really great player, even a lot of those Bill Laswell late 80s/early 90s records, "Middle Passage" in particular is great, were all assembled as overdubs, Ginger didn't really play with many (or maybe any) of the other musicians in the studio. Jah Wobble even tweeted abt it 'I didn't meet him at the time, Bill thought it would be "unwise"', that mentality of Cream,"I'm just going to play and if it works with what these other people happen to be doing great, if not, that is also great, I don't care".

Beware of Mr Baker makes a great case for him as a drummer but a couple of times, specifically when he & Clapton are dismissing Moon (ok, maybe) and Bonham as not being in Baker's league (and that Bonham didn't swing) are really "ok keep telling yourself that" moments.

I will say that maybe other than Robert Plant, there aren't too many English rock dudes from his era that seemed to have a really love & curiosity about music , to the point of traveling, hunting down the sources and really immersing himself in it when he could have made more money playing hard rock or the "hits" as it were

rip ginger baker, shine on you crazy hendecagon

https://img.discogs.com/jadNL9CnZ3OPE-U556dojo79sfQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1956018-1531326782-4540.jpeg.jpgp

just adding that when Enoch Powell was on DID he chose 4 Wagner pieces and his luxury item was: Smoking device to smoke fish.

I used to hate Eric Clapton, genuinely hate him, for being a racist piece of shit. I don't know if his apology was sincere or just an excuse but I don't hate him anymore. I look at him as a massively overhyped guitarist who did a bunch of songs I don't much enjoy, but I don't hate him. Now I hate Morrissey for being a racist piece of shit.

I also believe that what middle-aged white ladies think on the burning question of "Is Eric Clapton still racist" probably shouldn't carry a whole lot of moral weight.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2008/apr/20/popandrock.race

only last December [2007] on The South Bank Show he reiterated his support for the man and four years ago [2004] he told Uncut magazine that Powell had been 'outrageously brave'.

Not buying Clapton's "apologies"; to my knowledge, he never specifically addressed his '04 and '07 comments.

Beware of Mr Baker makes a great case for him as a drummer but a couple of times, specifically when he & Clapton are dismissing Moon (ok, maybe) and Bonham as not being in Baker's league (and that Bonham didn't swing) are really "ok keep telling yourself that" moments.

I think it's jealousy. Baker was the Man on the UK scene, and then here comes this 19-year-old speed freak, with no obvious formal training, and little respect for traditional techniques, trashing his drums every night, and he suddenly starts showing up on "best drummer" polls above Baker. Then a couple years later, a band modeled in part on Cream becomes the hugest thing in the world, and their drummer is celebrated for what Baker used to be celebrated for.

... and people stop thinking Cream were that big a deal.

I will say that maybe other than Robert Plant, there aren't too many English rock dudes from his era that seemed to have a really love & curiosity about music , to the point of traveling, hunting down the sources and really immersing himself in it when he could have made more money playing hard rock or the "hits" as it were

You could argue there was one in the same band. Jack Bruce. Not English though, of course.

Imagining Jack n' Ginger hunting down rare forms of music together now, pith helmets and all

One sends the other ahead then shoots him in the back.

W/r/t Ginger, as lots of people have said a great drummer, but I don't think of him as a really great player, even a lot of those Bill Laswell late 80s/early 90s records, "Middle Passage" in particular is great, were all assembled as overdubs, Ginger didn't really play with many (or maybe any) of the other musicians in the studio. Jah Wobble even tweeted abt it 'I didn't meet him at the time, Bill thought it would be "unwise"', that mentality of Cream,"I'm just going to play and if it works with what these other people happen to be doing great, if not, that is also great, I don't care".

Beware of Mr Baker makes a great case for him as a drummer but a couple of times, specifically when he & Clapton are dismissing Moon (ok, maybe) and Bonham as not being in Baker's league (and that Bonham didn't swing) are really "ok keep telling yourself that" moments.

I will say that maybe other than Robert Plant, there aren't too many English rock dudes from his era that seemed to have a really love & curiosity about music , to the point of traveling, hunting down the sources and really immersing himself in it when he could have made more money playing hard rock or the "hits" as it were

Wanted to say did you forget The Golden Palominos then I thought better of it.

Part of me wonders whether Laswell recorded his entire output with Baker—PIL, Horses and Trees, Middle Passage, Skopelitis’s Next to Nothing in a single session. On most of those records anyway

I was thinking the same thing, Baker def seemed like the sort of person who you could set up in a studio and let the tape roll and as long as the checks cleared he would be totally fine with whatever the finished product was

I recently interviewed singer Bernard Fowler, who was part of Laswell's company of singers and players in the mid '80s; he's on the PIL album, on the Herbie Hancock albums, on Yoko Ono's Starpeace, on Mick Jagger's She's The Boss, etc., etc., and he said Laswell's manager would basically call him up and say, "Come down to the studio on Tuesday - we're recording," and it didn't matter what the project was, the same group of dudes would be there.

when i interviewed shannon jackson in the early 90s he sang bonham's praises but didn't mention baker at all lol

So one in a hundred times it would be Ginger and the other 99 would be Anton Fier?
(xp)

a little older, a little more confused

Ha, exactly.

A friend of mine just recently told me a funny story about Syd Straw’s boyfriend, don’t know if it’s relevant to this thread.

We’ll make it relevant.

we could stand a good derail

As I said over on the Robert Wyatt thread last year, I was pleasantly surprised by some of Bruce's singing on those Michael Mantler albums I checked out because of RW's performances. Another good alibi: back in the 70s, I went to see EC because his opening act was Muddy Waters, who got me out of my seat with his first note, like all of Clapton and Albert Lee's fancy stuff did not---but I went along with that too, as a big chunk of the audience did not: they mainly responded to the hits, and kept calling "Cocaine!"long after he'd played the damn thing---Chris Cook, baseball fan, suggests that they were calling the vendor.

Thought you talking about seeing Muddy open for Costello for a sec.

I mean, Lee Dorsey and Bo Diddley opened for The Clash...

(Oh yeah, I did like the way Bruce sang the skulking "Politician" with Cream.) The best I've ever heard Clapton play was call-and-response with Robert Cray, his most formidable live "second" guitarist ever. (think Duane was studio-only?) That was on a cable concert, and there's probably boots from the tour, but it was the one cut short when his son died, wasn't it?

Could be a tiresome singer though ("The doctors tell me I was born with an undersized diaphragm.") Enoch-wise, Clapton's trying to be cagey, like Mel Gibson. Someday it'll be safe to come out of the shadows again...

RIP Ginger Baker
of all the classic rock guys, he stood out because of his awesome name

where my syd straw story

Her boyfriend Boone plays a tough guy on a show called Sons of Anarchy so people are always trying to pick fights with him.

I myself saw the two of them at a coffee shop several years ago, before this show happened, where I was meeting the Uni Watch guy about something and I said something to her, but he just kind of seemed to be glaring at me so I get it.

I have one more Syd Straw to round out this meager offering.

So my friend called me from LA last winter shortly after he met Syd Straw and had this discussion because ”I was the only one he knew who would know who she was”

After he moved back to LA decades ago another friend moved into the same apartment he had been living in in Brooklyn. This friend met Syd Straw one evening and got her phone number.

After he called her and left a message she called back and left him a message.

“[James Redd’s friend] this is Syd Straw. I’m in I’m out, I’m up I’m down, without the time for making any plans, however so casual.”

Now back to Ginger. I really like this trumpet player from Denver who is in the documentary talking about the Jazz & Polo Club and Ginger, Ron Miles. Been meaning to catch him live, never have, does an awesome version of Lennon’s “Julia.”

Yeah, Ron Miles is great. His 2017 album I Am A Man (with Bill Frisell, Jason Moran, Thomas Morgan and Brian Blade) is fantastic.

great Ginger piece in the NYT by one Weingarten

Haha, literal BURN

Bass player Jack Bruce later said that the opening song "N.S.U." was written for the band's first rehearsal. "It was like an early punk song... the title meant "non-specific urethritis. It didn't mean an NSU Quickly - which was one of those little 1960s mopeds. I used to say it was about a member of the band who had this venereal disease. I can't tell you which one... except he played guitar."

Pressed Rat and Warthog was my introduction to twee before twee was a thing.

1. i didn't know that the music for "strange brew" was originally recorded for a more-or-less straight blues arrangement titled "lawdy mama" -- what felix pappalardi and gail collins were able to do with that track, transforming it into what it is, is sort of amazing

2. did "As You Said" invent Led Zeppelin's "Friends"?

3. if i were to put together a little mix with non-album singles and pop psych odds N ends from various records, it might look like this. tbh i don't need much else from this band. even if i like tunes like "sunshine" and "strange brew", i don't need to ever hear them again.

Wrapping Paper
The Coffee Song
I Feel Free
Pressed Rat and Warthog
Anyone for Tennis

N.S.U.
Sleepy Time Time
As You Said
Blue Condition
World of Pain
Take It Back

Haha, literal BURN

ever since i read this, now when I hear the 'Ahhhh's in the chorus of "NSU" I imagine Eric Clapton screaming while he pees

did "As You Said" invent Led Zeppelin's "Friends"?

I'm sure Page would say he had been listening to Indian music for years before Cream, but it's obviously a forerunner of Zeppelin. As is "Deserted Cities of the Heart", my Pick Only One. It really allows all three musicians to do what they're best at, and the strings give it a scope and a wide vista that most of their other songs lack.

did Jack Bruce or Peter Brown ever discuss the meaning of "Take It Back" in an interview? genius suggests it might be a draft card. i always sort of thought it was about somebody flashing a piece at a party, but re-reading the lyrics i could see how it could be about the draft