Beyoncé - Renaissance

https://www.vogue.co.uk/fashion/article/beyonce-vogue-cover-new-music

She then asked me if I wanted to hear her new music. As someone who first saw her perform live with Destiny’s Child 23 years ago, a moment’s walk from my family home when the group played at the Notting Hill Carnival in 1999, I can feel the tingling excitement build as we make our way to her home recording studio. With minimal ceremony, she takes her laptop and plugs it in as we all sit on some sofas. Quietly, the superstar hits play on her upcoming album.

Instantly, a wall of sound hits me. Soaring vocals and fierce beats combine and in a split second I’m transported back to the clubs of my youth. I want to get up and start throwing moves. It’s music I love to my core. Music that makes you rise, that turns your mind to cultures and subcultures, to our people past and present, music that will unite so many on the dance floor, music that touches your soul. As ever with Beyoncé, it is all about the intent. I sit back, after the wave, absorbing it all.

wow @ the photos. i guess this is going to be club focused.

Others think disco/house, which would be the first Beyoncé album I care about tbh. Hope they’re right.

This writing, lol

As a scrumptious dinner of ribs, cream corn, peas, and mashed potatoes is served

now Renaissance needs to release an album called Beyoncé

something tells me beyonce's diet does not regularly include soul food

but if it does then more power to her.

i would very much welcome beyonce doing disco / house this year.

I feel like Beyonce is someone who could really nail the subcultural element of Paris Is Burning influences - her last two albums have been explicit in dealing with race and feminism. But I would settle for twelve tracks of starlit house that sound like Freemasons's remix of Green Light.

an amapiano-inspired album would be nice

something tells me beyonce's diet does not regularly include soul food

“Break My Soul” out tonight

I guess the horse is country, there's the disco ball, gold is for amapiano (KDS), and the motorbike is for the Rosalía influence
We're missing the vulva coat from the pictures which stands for... err...

idk if it's true but some on social media seem to believe that the-dream has produced or is otherwise involved in "break my soul"

rly excited either way!!

hmmmmmm yeah idk about this

BEYONCÉ B7 RENAISSANCE ACT 1 BREAK MY SOUL LEAK LEAKED SNIPPET SONG COMING OUT TONIGHT #BEYONCE #BREAKMYSOUL pic.twitter.com/WVS8ZzyEhh

— Normani Chart Source (@ManiChartSource) June 21, 2022

well then why are you posting it here!

bc I like to be of service ;)

anyway a bit better in non-leak form

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjki-9Pthh0

pretty underwhelming & doing that with the "show me love" sample is a weird move

I agree - but maybe it will grow on me.

I like it and I expect in a club it will sound revelatory

the positive is that if she's making a house album at least something should be good surely

Hope it turns new people on to Black Box.

Are soaring vocals and fierce beats combining, and in a split second transporting you back to the clubs of your youth?

I, noted non-fan of the 90s house sound in general, really dig this.

this should be up my alley but it all just seems so basic, cheap, and obvious

like sampling “Show Me Love” with Big Freedia as guest seems like something Katy Perry would do

sorry is this a safe space from the wrath of the Beyhive

I feel like I’m gonna regret what I just said

Anyway I have faith the rest of the album will be better

Listening to this and then revisiting "Show Me Love" back-to-back is not flattering to the Beyoncé track.

It reminds me of that recent Muni Long/Saweetie track that's essentially a "remake" of "My Boo," and just makes you go – why?

I kinda like this but feels like she could have done more with it

it saddens me as a longtime Beyoncé fan to say that I don't find this to be good, really at all. there's just so much about it that feels wrong to my ears. it made me think of 10 different similar-sounding tracks/records that I'd much rather listen to.

it's definitely a force for good, though! I hope its anti-establishment sentiments will be central to its resonance and success.

I wouldn't say I find it great but after listening to it once, not expecting much following the first comments here, I like it !

It has a summer party vibe that will certainly be enjoyable in the next few weeks.

I like it more the more I listen to it. First listen was, frankly, very “wait, that’s it?”

It reminds me (in a good way) that I was a high school student in Baltimore in the first half of the 1990s.

(That should be “Baltimore County”.)

this should be up my alley but it all just seems so basic, cheap, and obvious

like sampling “Show Me Love” with Big Freedia as guest seems like something Katy Perry would do

sorry is this a safe space from the wrath of the Beyhive

― Murgatroid

100%

Coming from very creative and tasteful dance pop albums in recent years from Robyn, Jessie Ware and Roisin Murphy… hell even Dua Lipa. Someone with the stature of Beyonce choosing “show me love” is eye rolling and borders on parody.

Hope the rest of the album is more interesting but don’t have my hopes high after listening to this one.

As a mythbusting gesture and maybe even a dance track, it works.

But was her intention to get myth busted?

I don't care about intentions. Releasing a solid pop house track is not what the audience expects.

What? Everyone was expecting this based on the Vogue shoot.

“As a mythbusting gesture”

“I don’t care about intentions”

???

I interpret it as a mythbusting gesture. I haven't talked to Beyonce's office.

i like this but yeah it's really not at the level of excellence one expects from bey these days

i hope normies don't think this is all house music is capable of

incidentally i did quit my job like a month and a half ago so this should resonate more w/ me but it doesn't quite

i enjoy how it swells a lil as it advances

perhaps the fact that the 'single cover' simply shows its numerical placement in the track listing signifies that this isn't 'really a single' and is more just a random preview track?? a little sad that i'm trying to come up w/ excuses for it tho

I couldn't get more than 90 seconds into this, but my fondness for her whole deal has curdled and my ears are probably jaundiced

it sounded kind of incompetent though? the diff elements don't fit together at all imo

I was underwhelmed by this last night, but it's really grown on me through repeat listens this morning. Maybe you have to hear it when you're trying to psyche yourself up to go to work. (Now I'm silently mouthing "You won't break my soul!" all around my office.) There is an actual single cover for it now, and I think a video release is imminent.

This reminds me of when Solar Power by Lorde came out. There are 90s signifiers, but it's so empty. Oh wow, and then they straight-up pokemon'd us at 4:10 for some reason.

lol yes i was surprised she would allow a potentially seizure-inducing sequence in her lyric video

this is a tricky/dream joint fwiw

Might have done better with Portishead, tbh.

i fucking love this. it's gonna sound so good on a club system.

^^^^

liked this more than i expected based on the thread, eagerly awaiting the ten minute david morales remix

david morales?? he's not so great anymore imo. dimitri from paris would kill it. give it to someone like acemo for a raw take. i wish more pop stars would go the dua lipa route and get remixes from the underground. although that was a bit of a mess.

i'm sorry my post was a joke about how '90s the track is

haha gotcha

hell, Junior Vasquez.

yeah, back in the day. so many of these guys do not sound as good after they went all-digital. so many young producers sounding vintage in up-to-date ways. i hope whoever is directing remixes for this gives us some surprises. not to get on my hobby horse about that.

fb friend pointed out that there are going to be a zillion tech house remixes of course.

anyway i'm happy that this is 90s house because that's what i'm into and playing out atm.

between this and drake it's like that classic, reduced mood ii swing -> defected axis is relevant and i don't have to swim against a current so much.

give jayda g license to do whatever she wants with this track.

it sounds awesome in the car and love it, but stil charli's 'used to love me' > this

i like this the more i listen to it... just pretty certain i never needed to hear a "show me love" sample again. nobody has done it better than dj mustard did a decade ago. the intro & outro are the best parts, the actual beyonce-led song is fine. she kinda weirdly trips over the rap verse. it's funny, for as much as the song is about freedom from labor this track feels very workmanlike to me. it competently and efficiently achieves a desired end result.

in general i try to not get worked up by anyone's lead singles tho, you never really know what it portends for the quality of the album. pretty confident there will be some amazing songs on the album. this is much better than "run the world" at any rate

It's not a 'Show Me Love' sample though, right? Just sounds like a Korg M1 organ patch like everyone uses for '90s-referencing dance music these days.

Can't decide if I like the sprinkle of New Orleans bounce in there for flavor, but I think I do, why not. Kinda makes it sound more like a dj blend. I hope Freedia got a huge paycheck.

It's "Show Me Love." The songwriters got credit.

Speaking of "Run the World," I thought that one was dead, buried, and forgotten...then a couple weeks ago in my rhetoric class no less than three students cited it and/or its video as a feminist text. These are 18 to 25 y/olds.

she went so hard on promoting "run the world" and has kept it in her live shows for so long that it seems like a lot of ppl either don't know or don't care that it underperformed upon release. to be fair her performances of it have been pretty excellent

It's not a 'Show Me Love' sample though, right? Just sounds like a Korg M1 organ patch like everyone uses for '90s-referencing dance music these days.

― change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, June 21, 2022 1:01 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It's "Show Me Love." The songwriters got credit.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 21, 2022 1:03 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the synth part is rhythmically distinct and yonce's is harmonically simpler, this is probably a "blurred lines"/"got to give it up" style crediting

i was one of the apparently relatively few who liked it when it came out and still enjoy it today

Agreed, I'm sure it was inspired by Show Me Love and they were referencing it, but I think it's all new production (incl. the M1 piano chords, drums, etc).

They were probably getting out ahead of the inevitable lawsuit had they not credited

I would probably have thought of "Show Me Love" anyway because when I hear that ping-pong preset it's Pavlovian.

Beyonce - Break My Soul pic.twitter.com/67x49WVw2H

— Finn (@FinnMcCorry) June 21, 2022

Speaking of "Run the World," I thought that one was dead, buried, and forgotten...then a couple weeks ago in my rhetoric class no less than three students cited it and/or its video as a feminist text. These are 18 to 25 y/olds.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 21, 2022 2:04 PM (forty-six minutes ago)

gosh I’m glad the subtlety wasn’t lost on the youths

ftr, I gave this a second shot, and I get why people like it. I'm at the point where I simply can't buy Bey singing "I just quit my job," but it's not like I wish that condition on others

it doesn't sample Show Me Love

from the BBC -

Weirdly, Break My Soul neither samples nor quotes their song. It simply uses the same bass sound, a preset on the infamous Korg M1 keyboard. But Beyoncé has always been careful to acknowledge the black creators who have influenced her.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61878412

I think it is ok. it does feel like there should be a Morales Red Zone mix. As an aside, i heard when he was knocking those Red Zone mixes out back in the day (at $50-100k a pop!) that he allegedly would have multiple engineers in different studios essentially making those for him and he would go from studio to studio saying "yes", "no" etc.

ps, Beyoncé has always been careful to acknowledge the black creators who have influenced her.

of course the version of Show Me Love everyone knows where that M1 sound was used is the Stonebridge remix and he is white so i think it's even cooler that she credits the OG (black) writers of the song and they will receive some $.

gosh I’m glad the subtlety wasn’t lost on the youths

― k3vin k.

lol I think they googled "feminism"

Beyoncé has always been careful to acknowledge the black creators who have influenced her.

"influenced her" /= "worked for her" ;)

maybe it should have read Beyoncé has started to be careful to acknowledge the black creators who have influenced her.?

Heard this on the car radio today (for the first and only time) and thought it sounded incredible. Surprised to see the mostly negative comments.

if we're talking about credits especially as it pertains to sampling/interpolation that's really a legal question & not a choice of who the artist wants to highlight, unless they're specifically trying to avoid paying people

Right, I'm sure the remixer who used the M1 bass doesn't have publishing on the song, so any credit would have to go to the songwriters.

I like it a lot. I love how, on the chorus after the first verse, she basically grunts/barks the word "break" the first two times and then backs off and sings it straight the next two times. With pop music at Beyoncé's level, every microsecond of every song is agonized over, and sometimes that attention to detail pays off with details like that

lol that last sentence was clumsily worded but you know what I mean

I've been wanting to do a mix of my favourite Korg M1-based house tracks for ages, "Korg M1s for my Korg M8s"

I feel like this song is one that will sound better and better the more ubiquitous it becomes, a constant staple at gay clubs and weddings. I think it needs ubiquity to rise above and banish the patchwork of obvious influences it otherwise resembles.

It will ultimately break me the same way Kylie’s “Spinning Around” did.

That's a pretty optimistic view of its prospects! You think it's destined for that kind of success?

Not sure about broader commercial success per se, but it has a shot of being the current "Cold Heart" for whatever that is worth.

as someone who actually liked "cold heart," this isn't anywhere near as unadventurous as that was, + frankly that was basically the reason it was a success, especially in the us

"cold heart" strikes me as a good call for both potential chart position and how it doesn't seem like much at first but turns into an anthem. n.b. "anthem" in my view means you'll hear it almost every weekend all summer long if you're going out to gay clubs.

xp i loved "cold heart." honestly it's a pretty weird track? the levels of call-back, and like how can something be so nothing-y and emotionally resonant at the same time.

now Renaissance needs to release an album called Beyoncé

OTM

Both this and the Drake album feel more like workout jams than club jams, in the same way that "Work Bitch" is.

i don’t think this is that far away from “cold heart” in terms of adventurous or lack thereof … it’s not a glorified remix or a cross generational songbook standard but it uses elements of underground/club music that have already been proven to work on huge hits. even the big freedia parts are used essentially the same way drake did on “nice for what:” no shots this just seems specifically designed to be a widely appealing single… i think when it leaked out that the song had a dance sample (or interpolation, reference whatever) most ppl figured that beyonce was going to pick something more obscure/head-y than “show me love.” and since i generally assume she knows her shit — or at least surrounds herself w/ ppl who pitch her cultural tastemaker level ideas — that leads me to believe she wanted the single to be a song that clicks for ppl in a way not too unlike “cold heart”

"cold heart" strikes me as a good call for both potential chart position and how it doesn't seem like much at first but turns into an anthem. n.b. "anthem" in my view means you'll hear it almost every weekend all summer long if you're going out to gay clubs.

xp i loved "cold heart." honestly it's a pretty weird track? the levels of call-back, and like how can something be so nothing-y and emotionally resonant at the same time.

― the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 00:50 (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, I was pretty underwhelmed by "Cold Heart" at first and then heard it absolutely everywhere for about six months (it was gay sydney's anthem for partying outside during and through, respectively, last year's late winter / early spring and the final stretches of delta's domination, and then immediately afterwards the first stretch of La Nina), and each time I heard it it seemed a little bit less resistible. Note - not actually always a 'club jam', but definitely a BBQ / Pool Party / Boat Party / House Party / soundtrack to random IG stories of the preceding events jam.

The nothingy-ness is perhaps key - it prevents such anthems from starting to feel obnoxious in their ubiquity. Very straightforward house production helps in this regard.

Obv "Break My Soul" has a whole "quit your job" zeitgeist angle going on which makes it seem less nothingy in principle, but you sort of have to pay attention to notice that, so there's a sense in which it will only be as dominating as it's allowed to be, and never invasive. It's an accommodating anthem.

lol @ me talking myself into liking this

i know someone mentioned that like it's hard to buy beyonce singing "quit your job" and i know i shouldn't be thrilled by that message at this point in life but i still am haha

i know she literally invokes 9 to 5 work and stuff but if you read the song a bit less directly and more as a general call to chart your own path with your labor it’s pretty easy to draw parallels back to her actual life from the s/t album forward

maybe but it doesn't land at all to me....i really liked homecoming but a lot of homecoming was about work, both her own and that of the people she was employing.

Many xxxxposts:

Don’t know if you’re joking but it’s not that Tricky. This is Cristopher “tricky” stewart.

Missed and H in there

I don’t know if taking the advice of a billionaire to quit your job and clap hands and dance in the midst of an upcoming recession is the anthem it tries to be. It feels shallow as fuck and yeah, regardless of lyrics or its intentions, it feels musically dull coming from her. Same shit as Drake, at this point people are paying attention because it comes from them. Noone would be giving this single the time of day if it came from a lesser known artist.

I’m just glad she’s finally releasing a record that isn’t a live thing or a movie soundtrack

I appreciate the need to try new things, but couldn’t get invested in recent projects. (Also I was one of three people on earth who wasn’t into most of Lemonade.)

Yeah my theory is that people are just thirsty for new beyonce, it’s been 6 years since they got Lemonade.

lol @ me talking myself into liking this

― Tim F, Tuesday, June 21, 2022 9

lol I can see this

Many xxxxposts:

Don’t know if you’re joking but it’s not that Tricky. This is Cristopher “tricky” stewart.

lol i was confused as well but moka's response was to someone commenting 'she should have worked with portishead instead'

First listen here. On the one hand it's a surprising and refreshing sound for her, on the other this beat is just too ubiquitous and mundane to be memorable. I think the song mostly works, her vocals are fine, but the chorus is nothing to cry home about. I would certainly not leave the dancefloor if it came on, but that's about it.

I guess it's a superstar temptation to try to prove that you can cover every genre, as if it mattered to your legacy.

Yeah sorry I was answering to peace,man about his Portishead comment, which I think was a joke.

I'd be more likely to shrug off her singing about her 9–5 if critic-stans weren't writing horseshit like this (pitchfork):

She opens, rather tenderly, “I just fell in love and I just quit my job/I’m gonna find new drive, damn they work me so damn hard.” Relatable: In the first verse alone, she encapsulates the Great Resignation, the Great Unionization, and quarantine insomnia. The determined chorus—“You won’t break my soul/And I’m tellin’ everybody”—is framed so that listeners can fill it with whatever we need in the moment. NOLA bounce icon Big Freedia is sampled for the intro and verse, which grounds the song in its Black queer tradition (and also provides the very good line, “Release the trade, release the stress”). She tough-loves us out of our pandemic hovels, physical and mental, rapping, “You said you outside but you ain’t that outside,” and responsibly seems to endorse continued masking; thank you, Beyoncé.

Right, the billionaire who co-hosted an Oscar party at a hotel where workers were striking in part due to the sexual harassment they experience from celebrity guests is invoking the "Great Unionization", please fuck off with this nonsense. Like I don't actually care that much about B's personal hypocrisy, but the instant mythologizing that happens with this artist borders on pathetic.

That said, map you're never to old to thrill to the prospect of quitting your job! There's nothing more alien to me than people I know continuing to work into their 70s who can easily afford to retire

That whole Pfork "review" is fairly embarrassing (to Pfork)

I think its nice that they took the time to thank Beyonce for her work. Too many reviewers forget basic manners like that.

“Thank you, Posty.”

Damn. I usually like reading Julianne.

Finally, a billionaire that understands our struggles.

So much for myth busting

All that for a song that’s 5/10 at most.

“Break My Soul” is Beyoncé as an SSRI, her attempt to assuage widespread depression and crushing stress, while acknowledging the predicament in which many of her non-zillionaire listeners find themselves. She opens, rather tenderly, “I just fell in love and I just quit my job/I’m gonna find new drive, damn they work me so damn hard.” Relatable: In the first verse alone, she encapsulates the Great Resignation, the Great Unionization, and quarantine insomnia. The determined chorus—“You won’t break my soul/And I’m tellin’ everybody”—is framed so that listeners can fill it with whatever we need in the moment. NOLA bounce icon Big Freedia is sampled for the intro and verse, which grounds the song in its Black queer tradition (and also provides the very good line, “Release the trade, release the stress”). She tough-loves us out of our pandemic hovels, physical and mental, rapping, “You said you outside but you ain’t that outside,” and responsibly seems to endorse continued masking; thank you, Beyoncé.

criticism that purports to speak for the music's entire audience like this is such irksome trash lol

the review is fine and the song does strike the zeitgeist more or less effectively, rich ilxors notwithstanding

i know that ilx loves rediscovering the cognitive dissonance of a rich person making art that voices a poor pov and all but just a reminder that this is pop music we're talking about.

Yep. Pop music has inhabited these contradictions forever, regardless of the reviews the music inspires.

well, yeah. all the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts. thank you, Beyoncé!

i'll tell you what's going through a renaissance - the discourse!!!

Ryan Dombal is somewhere breathing a sigh of relief.

lol vg Murgatroid

I'm guessing those lines about "building my own foundation" are a preview for some big philanthropy program.

Maybe she's designing the Beyoncéverse version of Avengers Tower.

wow... talk about The Discourse:

https://i.imgur.com/cQ96SeN.jpg

sorry smartasses, i'm gonna be real for a second, last time and then i'm out of this thread for a while i promise, as a person who has struggled with finances his whole life and is now 40, the idea of building my own foundation means working 1.5 jobs, paying off credit card debt and escaping the abusive cult my family belongs to. it's cool that you all find it trite and are over it but i'm willing to bet this resonates with a lot of people because it feels lived in. also to "this house sound is boring" - that house sound is forever, fuck off lol.

I’m younger than you and it’s trite af. Pop argument can miss me as well, it’s crass and embarrassing, people are pointing out the contradictions for those reasons, not because contradictions are inherently alien to pop.

Like Beyoncé herself has done commentary so much better - Formation is full of clever, knowing lyrics. It literally ends with “always stay gracious, best revenge is your paper” - fuck your racism, I’ll succeed despite you - but the video is all about taking pride in blackness and also her anger about anti-blackness, and Beyoncé being rich doesn’t mean she can escape that. This? This is just basic in all senses.

i probably wouldnt even be giving it a second thought if she hadnt literally crossed a high profile picket line for a billionaire party a few months prior to this. the song is fine and im sure i will enjoy hearing it in clubs and hotel lobbies for many years to come, but i cant help but feel that context affecting the way i hear those lyrics. if others can enjoy it without that lens, that's great, but its a valid lens to look at the work through. its obv naive to call bullshit on a popstar just for being rich, but its equally naive to think that their celebrity persona isnt in dialogue with the music as its received, particularly w/someone like beyonce.

Thanks, Map - it’s good to hear how the song is working for you. (I really do think the foundation line is an Easter egg.) It makes for an interesting compliment to “Nice for What,” which was also a celebration of just getting by and staying strong.

i did find bey musing about "all these people on the planet working 9 to 5 just to stay alive" viscerally thrilling back on the self-titled

I doubt this song will have enough legs to be heard in clubs / hotel lobbies for many years to come. Regardless of how obnoxious or on point you think the lyrics are, it’s lacking that wow factor and hooks of some of her most successful singles have. I know repetitiveness is a feature on house music but it works against her. She’s trying to do too much with her vocals for it to really work for me.

We’ll see I guess… most of the pop charts have been super bland this year so far, so it might as well be the anthem lacking in lustre that 2022 deserves.

Different approaches since Beyonce is clearly a better singer, but compare this to Drake’s “Massive”. That one allows the track to breathe and there’s many parts where he allows the beat to carry the song.

There’s virtually no part in the Beyonce song where the song doesn’t have vocals either sampled or by beyonce.

As a house track it’s terrible imho, and as a pop track it’s also super constrained and confused and frankly tasteless.

I was excited about the idea of Beyonce doing a house album but this single doesn’t make me think she truly has the gear in place to pull it off.

yeah it is an indictment that there's stuff on the drake album more compelling than this

she encapsulates the Great Resignation, the Great Unionization

https://www.etonline.com/sites/default/files/styles/970xh/public/images/2015-05/500_beyonce_feeling_myself_champagne_still.jpg

I'm trying to decide how indicative it is that my IG feed is basically 90% dancing footage from films and tv shows synced to the chorus of "Break My Soul".

Funny how homing in on the drop into the chorus makes this song seem more exciting than it actually is.

(well it's indicative of several things, probably)

The Long Tail of Show Me Love:

Earlier last week, Robin S. got a call from her son informing her that she was trending on social media as a result of the apparent “Show Me Love” reference in Beyoncé’s song, which replicates that M1 Organ 2 sound (in a different rhythm). She and StoneBridge both said they had no idea what was coming. StoneBridge discovered the connection while searching for his name on Twitter.

still think the inspiration here is at least as much the MK Nocturnal Dub remix of “Push The Feeling On” (not exactly an obscurity either, but obviously much less famous) as the StoneBridge “Show Me Love”

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cfb3ddsFe2S/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

still think the inspiration here is at least as much the MK Nocturnal Dub remix of “Push The Feeling On” (not exactly an obscurity either, but obviously much less famous) as the StoneBridge “Show Me Love”

― big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Tuesday, June 28, 2022 6:39 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm, very mk sound

(not mark knight, marc kinchen, it took me too long to figure out they were different people lol)

Gotta be an NFT of this:

act i RENAISSANCE 7.29 https://t.co/6sfw3sBWnz pic.twitter.com/FPPhEW1OTK

— BEYONCÉ (@Beyonce) June 30, 2022

lol

during the Great Unionisation everyone will have a crystal horse of pure light

We just need the Studio 54 moon and spoon laced with cocaine in the background and the aesthetic is complete.

I would likely highly enjoy Beyonce making a quasi-concept album structured around the deeply impractical combination of quitting your job and doing coke.

Beyonce's been playing Elden Ring

I would likely highly enjoy Beyonce making a quasi-concept album structured around the deeply impractical combination of quitting your job and doing coke.

― Tim F, Thursday, June 30, 2022 2:01 PM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

All 70s disco is a soundtrack to an eventful, but regrettable weekend.

Not really feeling any of these vibes.

cover is hilariously godawful and makes me fear she’s reverted into sasha fierce

I can’t believe how bad that cover is.

it's a born this way-level cover

i wish!!!!

Born Again This Way

born this way cover is an explosion of camp, this could be aiming at camp but seems to land in a zone of tasteful tastelessness which is anticamp

Posing like a work of art, nude in the cosmos / void / constellations, motherly boobs and sculpted thighs on the stallion is pretty uninspired, cold, and bland symbolic. Any shot from the Apeshit video would have worked better.

She quit her job and now she can’t even afford a real horse.

The cover immediately made me think of Lil Nas X.

it made me think of Geocities

a zone of tasteful tastelessness which is anticamp

or kitsch, per Sontag

cover is hilariously godawful and makes me fear she’s reverted into sasha fierce

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, July 1, 2022 1:34 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

we know that's not the case bc "Break My Soul" comes nowhere close to "Single Ladies"

It sounds to me a little like "I already reused 'Get Me Bodied' once, I'd better do something different" was said at some point in the song's construction

Honey Dijon credited on the album lfg

Beyoncé | act i | #RENAISSANCE Tracklist.https://t.co/F0KnAWrupc pic.twitter.com/lfNKCGKAJx

— BEYLEGION is COZY (@BeyLegion) July 20, 2022

she made a typo

"America IS the problem"

lol angling for that fox news/breitbart promo i see

afropop alert: track 10 “Move” has credits for P2J and GuiltyBeatz as well as Tems.

lol it leaked

i'm at work someone please report

nothing here seems very exciting

setting aside "the carters," first album of the beyonce decline?

Interesting, all other reports I've read have been full of breathless praise and have described it as pretty innovative (especially the second half)

(n.b.: I'm waiting for tomorrow as I have no idea how to source leaks anymore)

idk i thought "church girl" was really exciting in particular. the interplay between those really old school church harmonies & the "triggaman" beat, connecting history in a way i haven't really beard before. the transition between "energy" and "break my soul" i thought was really great too. i liked "cuff it" a lot... she really should just make an album that sounds like diana ross - diana. the second half of "pure/honey" is another one where you get just the pure satisfaction of really sugary harmonies over a lush groove. i thought "move" finds this neat little thruline between some of the club music she's referencing elsewhere and afrobeats in a way that doesn't feel like it's pandering in either direction.

i didn't think everything works... she isn't a good rapper lol. the first few songs didn't really hit for me. i would've locked the doors the studio before AG cook arrived. but off one listen my feeling was that it was a better album than lemonade which has basically had zero replay value to me as a full length. the film was great but man that album has a lot shlock in my opinion -- "don't hurt yourself," "6 inch," "freedom," "sandcastles"... diplo sampling "spottieottiedopalicious." maybe this doesn't have the highs of that album tho i'm not sure i would even agree w/ that either. i think certainly from an academic/discourse perspective there's a lot more to chew on here in terms of what she's doing musically than what she did w/ lemonade, which had the gossip-y divorce angle but after that felt like a pale imitation of the s/t. i feel like that album really faded from cultural memory as music. as a full length have ppl been pressing play on that one and letting it ride out at any point in the last 2 years? i never hear the songs accidentally anywhere. i think i could see myself listening to this one a lot more. but we'll see how it feels w/ more listens

i would've locked the doors the studio before AG cook arrived

He has a single credit on a song with 7 other writers. Sounds like you would have done that regardless of what the song sounded like.

Lemonade is my favorite Beyonce album, one of the few I can play end-to-end, despite duds.

i feel like that says more about how you feel about beyonce than how you feel about lemonade. but maybe i’m wrong

this is pretty good, i can understand why "break my soul" was the single because it's one of the most straight-forward tracks here but it's also one of the least interesting. i'm pleasantly surprised & already tempted to call it her best

all the track transitions are very cool

the s/t probably has higher highs but this hangs together better

I have not heard this yet, but I cannot really fathom thinking Lemonade is a better album than the self-titled (or indeed b’day or 4).

I feel like some albums really benefit - in terms of their reputation - from having a clearly defined ~vibe~ that you can summon up in your head without returning to the music to verify (indeed, perhaps doing so would only complicate the sharpness of one’s hot take encapsulation of that vibe), and Lemonade feels like that kind of album to me. I mean, I still like it! But when I read some of the super-positive takes on it I feel like I’m reading about the album the writer likes to imagine it to be rather than the album it is.

apparently the liner notes confirm that there's two more albums recorded & presumably on the way before too long

This album is insane. I probably should have expected that at least one track ("Cozy") would sound like it was produced by Crazy Cousinz, but it was lovely shock. I have a feeling map will love "Virgo's Groove".

"virgo's groove" is a fantastic centrepiece

I'm diving in for round 2 but on first go "Cuff It", "Virgo's Groove", "Heated" and "Pure/Honey" were my favourites

yayy so is this like on the seeker of souls

oh it's out tomorrow lol release dates how do they work

i'm a little surprised it didn't get held back until midnight US time like these sort of big releases usually do

god there's so much going on in "Alien Superstar". The chorus!!!! Crazy song

I have not heard this yet, but I cannot really fathom thinking Lemonade is a better album than the self-titled (or indeed b’day or 4).

why not? The self-titled drags; Lemonade rarely does (I like the eponymous album).

Also, Drake isn’t on Lemonade

well, yeah

lemonade is shorter but half the songs sound like music for car commercials and movie trailers, so i guess it’s a matter of perspective

Most pop music since 2008 does imo

Not criticism btw

i disagree on both counts

giving right said fred a credit on "alien superstar" for the start of the chorus is so ridiculous lmao

covidiots gotta get paid

Listening to this for the 3rd time and I like it a lot so far.
There's a light summer party vibe and it's pretty easy to play in loop.
Still working on individual tracks but I'm sure there's at least half of the album that is quite strong.

I also like that that there's no dodgy collab

This album bangs like a motherfucker and I’m only 3 songs in

spoiler: it keeps banging until the end.

#RenaisSLAMS!

And the one with "America" in the title is not what I expected.

giving right said fred a credit on "alien superstar" for the start of the chorus is so ridiculous lmao

Digging into the credits is pretty interesting: Kelman Duran, The-Dream, Honey Dijon, Green Velvet, MikeQ, Neptunes, A.G. Cook, Tems...

was kinda turned off by "i'm that girl," but every song since has been pretty fantastic (i'm at "church girl" which might be my fav yet), and the "energy"/"break my soul" transition made me tip my cap

ok "heated" is the second dud, such a drake melody that it's distracting

Test driving now (without looking at song titles yet).

After two listens I'm almost ready to say this is her best. Whether it's true or not I get the impression that she's taking herself a bit less seriously here than on the S/T and Lemonade, which is refreshing. Light summer party vibe otm.

"Plastic Off the Sofa" is my fave so far; that chord progression goes straight to my pleasure centers (buttery major 7ths are definitely involved). A Syd co-write too.

i really loved "i'm that girl", i'm still on my first listen though

ok "heated" is the second dud, such a drake melody that it's distracting

Me too! Maybe I'm just basic, but I enjoyed the whole thing, lol

bass & drums there are so hot, and what happens in the arrangement from 2:30 onwards

xp

this album is somewhere between solid and excellent I'm not sure yet

so many things happen halfway in these tracks, “Thique” another case in point

feel like this is a self evidently great album, not even sure what else to say

y'all are welcome to heated lol. the second half was a bit more nondescript than the first imo, but still solid. need to listen again.

but the stretch from "cozy" to "move" is reeeeeal good

one of my main takeaways is how good "break my soul" sounds in the context of the album compared to being a single. the transition into it is fantastic and it has a streamlined urgency right at the heart of the album that contrasts w/ the rest of the record in a way i find really effective

y'all are welcome to heated lol. the second half was a bit more nondescript than the first imo, but still solid. need to listen again.

but the stretch from "cozy" to "move" is reeeeeal good

― in places all over the world, real stuff be happening (voodoo chili), Friday, July 29, 2022 4:38 PM (one minute ago)bookmarkflaglink

i agree that is the killer stretch of the record and the second half is prob less memorable but also the second part of "pure/honey" might be my fav thing on the album outside of "church girl." i would pay good money for her to do a whole album w/ raphael saadiq

I listened to this determinedly low stakes affair over lunch and last week's New Yorker article about yachters.

My second impression: I like it: the beats, her comfort over the opulent sampled/interpolated/stolen grooves, especially if I tune out the references to the pleasures of plutocracy.

"Cozy" is my jam, Solange allusion and all.

especially if I tune out the references to the pleasures of plutocracy

harder or easier to do this when you're reading a 15,000 word article on mega yachts?

seconding the love for both "church girl" and "cozy." "church girl" is prob gonna wind up one of my favorite songs of the year

pretty sure the album version of "Break My Soul" is a different mix

"Plastic Off the Sofa" is my fave so far; that chord progression goes straight to my pleasure centers (buttery major 7ths are definitely involved). A Syd co-write too.

― J. Sam, Friday, July 29, 2022 11:48 AM (five hours ago)

Seconded. She gave us "Love Drought" on her last record that totally did this, so glad we get another. Although, I'm hardly an objective source, as I don't think I've ever heard a song with those chord progressions and a propulsive-yet-chill beat that I did not like, whether it was from Steely Dan's "Deacon Blues", Janet Jackson's "Funny How Time Flies", Rush's "High Water", the Japanese House's "Lilo", the middle section of "Close To The Edge", etc. Before a Nilufer Yanya show, the bar played three amazing newish examples of this template that I have to thank Shazam for ID'ing for me (Softcult's "Gloomy Girl", Trace's "Suddenly Emotions Fall”, and Felivand’s "Midsummer Sun"). Are we in a golden age of this genre/style? It appears so!

really great! will probably be one of my fav albums from her easily

First listen to this I am rather stoned, it is amazing

Surprised at some of the responses here but all my favs are in the back half. “Cozy”, for a record with Raphael saadiq and Nile rodgers, sounds like it would have been comfortable on the lizzo album. I’m surprised people see it as a highlight

*I meant “cuff it” above.

lol poor lizzo. it's like all interest in her on here evaporated as soon as she graduated from 'the kind of pop artist that it would be cool to see succeed' to 'actually kinda-successful pop artist'

is her album any good? I should probably give it a listen. dropped off after the first one

"virgo's groove" -> "move" fucking hell yeah

lol poor lizzo. it's like all interest in her on here evaporated as soon as she graduated from 'the kind of pop artist that it would be cool to see succeed' to 'actually kinda-successful pop artist'

So she's like the musical equivalent of Amy Schumer?

"thique" is incredible

phrase that kept coming to mind during "thique"/"all up in your mind" was "psychedelically-detailed booty bass" which "america has a problem" then fulfilled

Everything from "cozy" to "thique" is good to great (I consider the first one more like an intro to the album).
The final 4 I'm still working on.
"thique" is such a dirty banger and so many great and exciting musical/vocal moments throughout the album.
This is definitely one of my favorite Beyonce album and I feel like it will become my single favorite shortly...

Surprised at some of the responses here but all my favs are in the back half. “Cozy”, for a record with Raphael saadiq and Nile rodgers, sounds like it would have been comfortable on the lizzo album. I’m surprised people see it as a highlight

which isn’t to say that i begrudge the opinion that “cuff it” is trad & a bit boring compared to other songs on this album. i feel differently but i understand that POV. but i also think comparing it to lizzo is kinda like the lizzo version of an opinion

re lizzo, "about that time" is a jam

Seconded. She gave us "Love Drought" on her last record that totally did this, so glad we get another. Although, I'm hardly an objective source, as I don't think I've ever heard a song with those chord progressions and a propulsive-yet-chill beat that I did not like, whether it was from Steely Dan's "Deacon Blues", Janet Jackson's "Funny How Time Flies", Rush's "High Water", the Japanese House's "Lilo", the middle section of "Close To The Edge", etc. Before a Nilufer Yanya show, the bar played three amazing newish examples of this template that I have to thank Shazam for ID'ing for me (Softcult's "Gloomy Girl", Trace's "Suddenly Emotions Fall”, and Felivand’s "Midsummer Sun"). Are we in a golden age of this genre/style? It appears so!

Beautiful post, I live for this "vibe" (and "Love Drought" was my favorite track from Lemonade. That Japanese House song and the tracks you Shazam'd are new to me, so thanks for that.

Hell yeah! I'm waiting for Beyonce to do the full buttery-major-7ths album, but then again, the full-on screaming ["WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK I AM!?" in "Don't Hurt Yourself" makes me really want to hear her fronting a punk-rock band

I've given this a first listen, and it's definitely the first Bey album I've given a shit about. The first half is fantastic. Pure queer bait, and tbh as a queer woman I'm here for that. I'm hoping the second half will hit as hard with repeated exposure.

but i also think comparing it to lizzo is kinda like the lizzo version of an opinion

― J0rdan S., Saturday, July 30, 2022 12:27 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Lol come on man. You and I both know this is like the sound of every pop demo of the past 5+ years

they pretty clearly had different goals, "cuff it" feels less focused on being a hit than "about damn time", it's more relaxed & isn't really going for big hooks, & there's a few minor twists to it

but i think "about damn time" is pretty good, lizzo being corny isn't enough to really damage it so idk, i wouldn't call it less rich than "cuff it" either

i love "america has a problem", the out-of-touch a&r consultants who are currently forcing everyone and their mother to release mediocre bass revivals b/c they so desperately want black radio to gain 'tempo' again should take notes (not that "america" is going to be particularly successful but at least the production is engaging)

one of my main takeaways is how good "break my soul" sounds in the context of the album compared to being a single. the transition into it is fantastic and it has a streamlined urgency right at the heart of the album that contrasts w/ the rest of the record in a way i find really effective

― J0rdan S., Friday, 29 July 2022 20:39 (three days ago) link

Agree with this. When the song came out I was worried that Beyonce was intentionally streamlining her entire sound. The surprise is that the album is so dense that it actually benefits from that moment of sharp simplicity.

Still absorbing the album generally though.

The vocal ebullience of "Alien Superstar" has had me in a swoon the last couple days as opposed to "Virgo's Groove," which has vocal extravagance: way too much shit to keep track of.

Here for “plastic off the sofa.” Any idea who’s playing bass on this?

on "plastic off the sofa" it's the internet's bassist, patrick paige ii. it was co-written & produced by syd

Well, you got me to listen to a Beyonce song, Prefecture. A little surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

My second impression: I like it: the beats, her comfort over the opulent sampled/interpolated/stolen grooves, especially if I tune out the references to the pleasures of plutocracy.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, July 29, 2022 4:45 PM (three days ago)

This is kind of where I am. Seeing people with a stronger affinity for rap than I have praise "Church Girl" makes me think the problem is my jaundiced ears though, like I kept finding myself thinking "I wish there was a lot less singing on this Beyonce album" lol

On my sole listen, after 10-15 minutes I definitely started focusing more attention on the grain of the voice and the sonics than on what was being said.

Well, you got me to listen to a Beyonce song, Prefecture. A little surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, August 1, 2022 12:02 AM

Thanks! I was going to make a "Just trying to help a promising up-and-coming artist" joke, but then I was shocked to learn that she hasn't had a proper single reach #1 since 2009, and has had only 3 Top 10 hits in the past decade. I am really out of touch - I just assumed she was in that "Whitney/MJ/Mariah/George Michael in the late-'80s" category where most of her singles hit the top spot.

What does “rolling face” mean?

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/beyonce-renaissance/

the face you make rolling on ecstasy I guess?

I thought that might be it…

But using her global proscenium to showcase the work of marginalized people, as the political and legal scapegoating of their existences ramps up to a terrifying degree—including draconian legislation in her home state of Texas—is important, even a rejoinder to 2014’s big FEMINIST sign moment, a subtle kiss-off to people who’ve made vilifying trans women a cornerstone of their feminism by making space for all sorts of femme expression.

That review is interesting. I've been wondering if attitudes toward "cultural appropriation" have changed (which I would welcome; I always thought cult app was an intellectual dead end, its excesses better criticized via sharper, sturdier concepts like exploitation, theft, and racism). Premature to say, but the conversation around this album suggests it might be—or is Beyonce an exceptional case due to her star power and/or impressively meticulous citation practice?

Probably not the best thread for that I guess, but I suppose what I'm wondering on-topically is whether anyone is bothered by her capitalizing on all this history? I'm cishet and not saying anyone should be bothered, tbc, I would be mostly pleased if this album was received as an act of solidarity ("mostly" since that requires ignoring the ceaseless reminders of her unfathomable wealth), but is that the case?

huh?

not a straightforward question and there's no simple answer but you can probably find every conceivable one

idk if/where it's solidarity vs largesse vs appropriation but this discussion will be happening already

I have frustrations with the way capitalism gets ignored or selectively invoked in popular social justice discourse but I'm not the person to challenge that in a productive way

I think most people see a black woman from the south making R&B as operating within the tradition she's "borrowing from" rather than appropriating. It's a bit odd to see 'appropriation' used bc she is a wealthy woman when she built her wealth *by making music*

i dunno if attitudes towards cultural appropriation have changed -- i still think it's a prevalent lens in lots of gen z online conversations -- so much as the conversation about it kinda hit a logical endpoint. it would be hard to say the concept hasn't dramatically influenced pop culture (certainly music)... we don't really have pop stars dressing up in cultural costumes, harajuku girls level appropriation anymore. so when it comes to i.e. the beyonce album you're dealing w/ a much more layered, nuanced piece of work, and resultant conversations, than the cultural appropriation of yore. rosalia is another example of someone who generates appropriation convos but it revolves around stuff like parsing out identity w/in the latin diaspora, who has ownership of music from which countries... frankly for albums like both of theirs i find it to be a pretty limiting framing but it's not like those conversations aren't happening. rosalia gets asked about arguments that she's appropriating black latin music from the caribbean despite being a white woman from spain in just about every interview. but ultimately w/ artists of that stature these conversations are not going to resonate w/ enough of the population to harm their careers or anything

i would say two things wrt beyonce. for one she does explicitly articulate the roots of her connections to this music (in her view) in the letter she put out w/ the album talking about her gay uncle. i guess some ppl may quibble w/ what that connection means in terms of her investment in these cultures but i don't personally care to do that (it's an unanswerable question). also i think it's safe to say she's long been embraced by queer black people & so i would suspect that anyone trying to gatekeep her use of ball slang or whatever are doing so while not otherwise working at the gate, so to speak.

secondly, as d-40 alludes to, her art -- music, videos, performances -- from the s/t onward has generally been a big project in examining black music and black culture from a historical perspective, elevating that culture and history to a critical mass level etc. if you include solange's recent albums/videos as well as her work outside of music & consider the way both of them talk about their mother's influence on their music in this sense, it's really been a family project in making historical black art. typically it's thru the lens of the south but it's difficult for me to see beyonce turning her eye towards dance music, ball culture as anything but an extension of what she has been doing for (at least) the last 10 years.

also w/ the wealth stuff on this album... i haven't done a close reading of every song, but on "heated" for instance her invoking of designer labels is so clearly w/in the lineage of ball culture where wealth and high fashion is woven entirely into the fabric of what those events are. "got a lot of chanel on me / gotta fan myself off", "like stolen chanel, put me up in jail" ... you only need to have watched "paris is burning" to understand the specific references she's making here. if it still rankles you to hear an incredibly rich woman lionizing wealth from the perspective of a poor kid whose POV is entirely aspirational i get it, but the context is obvious, and personally i'm willing to grant her the license of that character when the resultant music is so good

haven't done a close reading of every song, but on "heated" for instance her invoking of designer labels is so clearly w/in the lineage of ball culture where wealth and high fashion is woven entirely into the fabric of what those events are.

After blasting the album on the drive home after a road trip, I'd a lot of time to review The Beyonce Project since 2011. This album coalesces so many of her fascinations, and it's so goddamn dense while being a blast: allusive AND dance floor ready. In some ways it reminds me of Madonna tracks like "Impressive Instant" and Deee-Lite's "What is Love" and Betty Boo's "Doin' the Doo" where they babble and coo and experiment with vocals while the track undulates beneath them.

What about all this backlash over the slur in the lyrics

huh?

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, August 1, 2022 2:39 PM (one hour ago)

lol sorry, I was being excessively vague because I was trying too hard to not do what J0rdan aptly summarized here:

i would suspect that anyone trying to gatekeep her use of ball slang or whatever are doing so while not otherwise working at the gate, so to speak.

So to clarify, I was specifically talking about queer (dance) cultures and wondering if the facts of Beyonce's cisness and straightness—which aren't just biographical details, they are often key to her music in some ways, and while I'm absolutely not a Beyonce scholar, I don't recall there ever being much ambiguity on these fronts—were being received as problematic appropriations of queer culture, a response I've sort of grown to expect when artists cross into cultures they don't "belong" to. Maybe I'm out of date (I mean, that was literally what I was asking), but I was surprised to see, e.g., this on NPR, which makes B metaphorically a full participant in ball culture:

If Renaissance is the theme of the ball, Beyoncé is the house mother fussin' on the balcony, the queen on the floor serving face, the spectator snapping in time and omnipotent judge all at once.

Or even in Shepherd's review, where she does a brilliant accounting of all the elements in "Pure/Honey" and concludes: "That’s years of history in just one song, and just one magnifying-glass example of the ways Beyoncé uses Renaissance to put some respect on these club legends’ names." Again, I'm not arguing that Shepherd is wrong or anything, I was just struck that this was being exclusively, afaict, interpreted as an act of respect/homage/love by critics.

The wealth mention was sort of a red herring, sorry. I was writing "I would be thrilled if this album was received as an act of radical solidarity," but I can't imagine having genuine radical solidarity with a billionaire, so I tried to qualify it. I didn't mean to imply the appropriation questions were connected to her wealth. I could go into a few specific objections to some of the lyrics, but I don't feel like doing that on ILM tbh

Anyway, many many thanks to J0rdan for a really great response!

Mostly good stuff: https://www.npr.org/2022/08/01/1114499960/revolutionary-fun-beyonce-renaissance-review-roundtable

What about all this backlash over the slur in the lyrics

― zacata, Monday, 1 August 2022 20:55 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

rong thread!

My take is that anyone trying to roll up on Beyoncé now for alluding to and using Black gay culture in her music/imagery has never heard “Get Me Bodied”

spazz on that ass

I keep thinking Grace Jones is saying “Brockovich Brockovich Brockovich.”

^^ lol yes

Ok I'm halfway through and this is my fave Beyonce album. The first three tracks are sick, the disco song is eh, but then I'm all the way back in for Beyonce doing NOLA bounce on Church Girl. She's flirted with it before but it's fun to hear her doing classic bounce chants instead of just using a buried sample and Big Freedia on the intro. The only bummer is that most of the world will think she just invented it, but whatever.

Very curious to hear the ballroom track, I saw Kevin Jz Prodigy and Mike Q post about it.

Also, there are heavy Dirty Projectors vibes on Plastic Off the Sofa, right?

The club beats + Prince synths on Alien Superstar, swoon

It's become my favorite track.

Also, there are heavy Dirty Projectors vibes on Plastic Off the Sofa, right?

I thought of Todd Rundgren, ha. I was hoping more of the album would be like that, though. :(

Ok yeah...it definitely feels a little weird to hear Beyonce put on a ballroom mc affect on Pure. But I don't think it's as simple as cultural appropriation, given her position in the world it seems to be more like giving the ultimate seal of approval to the culture? And at least Kevin Jz and Mike Q are on the record, even if it's a sample of an old track rather than a feature or collaboration.

The new version of Energy is definitely weaker without the 'la la las' interpolated from the Kelis song.

I've ordered the CD before Beyonce can change any more of the songs...

I was going to say, at this rate the CD is going to be a collector's edition.

Quite an album. It's pretty amazing how well it flows given the variety of what's here - only a couple of the transitions take me out of the flow. "Alien Superstar" and "Virgo's Groove" are the early standouts

yeah the flow is great. i saw someone on twitter say that every time they go back to play a highlight track, they wind up letting it ride for the next five or six songs and i've had a very similar experience

I like this album a lot. Basically club-music ballads in which she can import whatever she likes, with the comfort of a signature production to rely on. I don't mind if it's all borrowed. The songs I like the least are the ones that sound most like her previous incarnations. There are enough highlights to sort them out on a table, and they leave me wishing she went harder. Agree about the flow, when was the last 16-song dance-pop album I found so consistent ?

really fun-flowing album. first 2 tracks had heavy Bjork Medulla and Debut vibes, in that order.

one thing that helps with flow is not having a bunch of skits or voice memos or w/e larding up the album

Hmmmmm. Having fired up Serato for the first time this summer I just noticed that a healthy chunk of this album is in... amapiano tempo, essentially: 108-115 bpm. Which is interesting. Just a few years ago these bpms mostly went unused. I was expecting Break my soul at the very least to be a lot closer to 120, almost by default.

I hear “Heated” as potential amapiano in my head

Except it's not in your head, the log drums are super clear, just well integrated in the 4/4 beat. Not particularly surprising from Beyoncé after Lion King.

yes, it’s because of that log drum, I’m aware

I'm still trying to figure out when it becomes pure dancehall
Top top top song

both remixes of 'break my soul' are excellent. honey dijon doing big ballroom crashes at 125 bpm and focusing on the rap, somehow making it sound a little better. terry hunter, young chicago guy doing a lush andres-reminiscent soulful take, sounds like real rhodes.

fun to mix 'alien superstar' into 'unique' by kim cooper.

terry hunter remix sounds a little busy on a big system but i love it anyway

the nita aviance is my favorite of the bunch. the way it builds to a beyonce choir is amazing

oh nice, i missed that one.

you gotta have "a whole lotta people in the house" for real if you're going to play it 😂

Honey Dijon remix rules

inevitable (after the bootleg mashups), but surprisingly good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9WNVoA_KG8

…and no, 2022 Madonna isn’t on it

I'm going to need Terre Thaemlitz' opinion on this as soon as possible

Longneck, that's also New Orleans bounce tempo

I wish not to hear "you won't break my soul" again.

xpost

Ahhhh, you're right! Thanks.

Queen Mother Madonna, Aaliyah
Rosetta Tharpe, Santigold
Bessie Smith, Nina Simone
Betty Davis, Solange Knowles
Badu, Lizzo, Kelly Rowl'
Lauryn Hill, Roberta Flack
Toni, Janet, Tierra Whack
Missy, Diana, Grace Jones
Aretha, Anita, Grace Jones
Helen Folasade Adu
Jilly from Philly, I love you boo
Don't just stand there get into it
Strike a pose there's nothing to it
Michelle, Chloe, Halle, Aaliyah, Alicia, Whitney, RiRi, Nicki

The Santigold shoutout is surprising.

I'm going to need Terre Thaemlitz' opinion on this as soon as possible

― boxedjoy, Saturday, August 6, 2022 1:24 PM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol, love and respect to tt but it pretty much writes itself.

i'm getting a little tired of "break my soul" but some kid facetiming his mom on her birthday when i played it last sunday and holding the phone up to me - all the smiles and stuff, that was pretty fucking awesome.

I have to agree with everyone who’s said that “Break My Soul” works a lot better in the context of the full record.

And I’m finding myself enjoying the back half of Renaissance a lot more on this listen.

I have to agree with everyone who’s said that “Break My Soul” works a lot better in the context of the full record.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, August 7, 2022 3:23 AM (seventeen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I feel like we say that a lot to mean "I changed my mind, but my pronouncements are never wrong" :)

You’re probably right!

By itself, the song just felt kinda slight.

i think in this case there is genuinely something about the transition into the song… it’s not just a sequencing of a tracklist but an actual blending of music… that really elevates it, tho there is also something about the sequencing too as i posted earlier that puts the song in its best light

This album rules.

“Break my soul” got annoying really fast

xp +1

#1 album and single this week.

vogue mash-up bangs

you should have known this album ruled early on when the freakin' foremost poets sample comes in c'mon

Mostly good stuff: https://www.npr.org/2022/08/01/1114499960/revolutionary-fun-beyonce-renaissance-review-roundtable

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 1, 2022 5:35 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thanks. The NYT Popcast roundtable was worth a listen, as well (unlike some prior episodes we've discussed). Always better when JC plays facilitator vs. agitator/smarmy contrarian.

Good review imo: https://ra.co/reviews/35009

(of course the writer has now had to make her twitter private)

idk I feel like im more bearish on the album than a lot of people here but I didn't think that was a very good review. what does “is it burying or uplifting queer history?” even mean?

I'm not crazy about "the album falls flat when it tries too hard to immerse itself in a culture that does not belong to Beyoncé." Who polices this and Bowie's Young Americans?

I’m still back on Beyoncé explicitly riffing on all of this stuff in the Get Me Bodied video

idgi. everyone should be making more disco records plz.

I guess to me it’s like — I’m super open to the argument if someone told me they find the project frustrating bc ie it’s using ballroom tropes but wouldn’t actually work in that context, for them, or something like that — like i am interested in critiques of the project & its utility in certain spaces or lack thereof. But this piece reads to me more like someone making the point of vague problematic aura bc they think it’s a point someone is supposed to be making than bc they have a compelling reason to believe it

I promise I’m not trying to start a fight here, but I’m genuinely curious: has there been a negative published review of this record?

I don’t think of myself as a particularly punkrock R&B fan, but I haven’t felt as “out of touch” with popular sentiment in forever (though that’s true when it comes to Beyoncé in general). My problem, I suppose.

what non-Beyonce R&B do you listen to?

I think everybody is too scared of Beyonce’s army to give this record anything less than a B+

xp I listen exclusively to “Top That,” from the Teen Witch soundtrack. Am I doing it wrong?

i tend to find questions about whether archetypal pop divas paying obvious, specific and lovingly executed tribute to lgbtq people/art/community is 'appropriative'/exploitative approximately as insightful as those ppl on twitter years ago who were asking with complete sincerity whether drag performance is a problematic appropriation of effeminacy after the rachel dolezal fiasco

xp no but you sure are annoying about it

i can't remember the last time i read a good review in resident advisor, the one above certainly isn't

I think everybody is too scared of Beyonce’s army to give this record anything less than a B+

― ✖✖✖ (Moka)

this is true tho, on fan spaces it is abundantly clear that the gravest sin that this reviewer committed was causing the album's metacritic score to drop to a paltry 92 (!!)

xp sorry to annoy!

idk I feel like im more bearish on the album than a lot of people here but I didn't think that was a very good review. what does “is it burying or uplifting queer history?” even mean?

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 00:29 (two hours ago) link

I'm not crazy about "the album falls flat when it tries too hard to immerse itself in a culture that does not belong to Beyoncé." Who polices this and Bowie's Young Americans?

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 00:31 (two hours ago) link

I guess to me it’s like — I’m super open to the argument if someone told me they find the project frustrating bc ie it’s using ballroom tropes but wouldn’t actually work in that context, for them, or something like that — like i am interested in critiques of the project & its utility in certain spaces or lack thereof. But this piece reads to me more like someone making the point of vague problematic aura bc they think it’s a point someone is supposed to be making than bc they have a compelling reason to believe it

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 00:41 (two hours ago) link

I talk about this quite a lot but I find it super-frustrating how the convergence of pop criticism, cultural studies, gossip and twitter snark results in this kind of short-circuit argument where the connection between the quality of the music and the issue which is purportedly problematic is posited but not unpacked, e.g.:

"But, as a wealthy cis woman, Beyoncé lacks an intimate understanding of the subcultures she is borrowing from, and this sudden, random interest in underground queer culture renders the execution awkward at best, and painfully pandering at worst. "

How would an "intimate understanding" of queer/ballroom subcultures (even assuming the writer is correct to conclude that Beyonce lacks it) have manifested as a different end product? The writer doesn't say, perhaps hasn't even turned their mind to the question, beyond a kind of vague "I'd know it when I saw/heard it" presumption (presumably because the artist in question is not a wealthy cis woman).

The result of this kind of approach tends to turn what could be a very thoughtful examination (of how an artist like Beyonce can successfully or otherwise engage with queer culture) into a quite shallow one.

it does at least accurately capture the stakes there - if it was a misstep by beyonce in that regard then it's only awkward and/or corny, but it doesn't really spend enough time justifying why they think it's a misstep, there's just one line they take minor issue with and the rest of the critique seems to just boil down to vibes

i feel pretty ambivalent about the album in that regard, it doesn't really feel like some real misstep nor success, in its relation to queer culture

To be clear, I'd be open to being persuaded that it is a real misstep - but I think that kind of allegation should require more reasoning in support rather than less.

I don't think it's a misstep, but it is interesting that she's specifically adopting the persona and cadences of some of these subcultural club styles. She could have just sampled it as window dressing, or done her normal style and had guest vocalists. I appreciate the commitment, but it's definitely a riskier move. I think it works but also feels like she's trying on costumes at times?

exaggerated, even 'costumed' expressions of oneself are literally inextricable from these subcultures. among the foremost personae adopted within these spaces is that of the diva, the sort of larger-than-life star that certain figures like, hm, say, beyoncé have embodied for decades. have you all not seen queer people literally dressing up as beyoncé before

Yeah otm, queer culture and pop divas have been in a symbiotic relationship for decades. Weird conversation to have regarding this album.

Yeah, it feels like a moot point. Queer culture is not monolithic, has shared the global stage for decades, and can't be construed as a person who never saw it coming that a pop superstar in effing 2022 would integrate and promote it on her own terms (or queer culture really has a short memory). It's not like we can measure, but it's funny to suggest that queer culture could have been portrayed and impacted negatively, as if Beyoncé was commissioned and failed, or not even commissioned since she didn't ask for permission, and couldn't even had the idea since she's supposed to be compartmentalized... when it seems to me that queer culture can only gain from the additional exposure. I mean, it can be a conversation-starter, like, "what did you think of the new Beyoncé", rather than the negative "in what world did she think she was allowed to", as if silence would have been better. I prefer the world where she did it (even if I still have no idea what "it" is).

I think a lot of writers just find it easier to frame assessments of music which throw up these issues as boiling down to a question of "who gets to have this conversation" rather than "what is the conversation, and what does this specific artefact add to that conversation".

there's something i've been pondering, because I live in LA now and am surrounded by dispensaries, about what people expect ... not just of weed, or art, but the world itself, to do for them.

when I was a teenager weed was like, something you did to get high or feel stoned or eat too many chips and watch bad movies

and now weed is marketed, at these dispenseries, as something which has great personal therapeutic and even biological utility -- good for aches and pains and nausea and tension headaches and to feel calm and relax or feel energized and stimulated or etc etc. This maybe obvious to you all as to be unremarkable, idk, I just moved here and never smoked much. I know this sounds like an attempted comedy bit but I really mean it--the language around this stuff is so funny

An energetic sativa strain with diesel and blueberry aromas. The presence of the limonene terpene in this strain heightens focus while the presence of terpinolene, when in concert with THC, acts as a natural stimulant. The result is a heavy-hitting and fast-acting flower with an invigorating cerebral effect.

This pure sativa originates from the South African port city of Durban. It has gained popularity worldwide for its sweet smell and energetic, uplifting effects. Durban Poison is the perfect strain to help you stay productive through a busy day, when exploring the outdoors, or to lend a spark of creativity.

The Wedding Cake strain provides relaxing and euphoric effects that calm the body and mind. This strain yields a rich and tangy flavor profile with undertones of earthy pepper. Medical marijuana patients choose Wedding Cake to help relieve symptoms associated with pain, insomnia and appetite loss.

Someone with more time & an anti-industry bent could probably relate this trend to music by talking about how streaming playlists are marketed ... lo fi beats for you to study to

anyway, to get to the point, people write about music in a similar kind of sense I find -- that it owes them something as a consumer, and that that something tends to be graded on a scale of 'good for me' >>>> 'bad for me', rather than whether it, like, works creatively, or to really approach it on its own terms in any way...what does it do for us? does it help empower us, affirm, to heal: it's a balm for our troubled times, or whatever? And this healing property is given the weight of a moral imperative. And then when you want to critique it, to be a bold truth-teller about someone who can't be criticized, you have to disqualify its efficacy as some kind of musical medicine. There's no sense that it's failed creatively, but that it's in some way "bad for you," that authority for the critic's pan must be sourced in an objective fact of the work, like calling on the chemical components of a weed strain to explain why it makes you feel kind of dumb.

(D-40 and Tim F. are both getting at something that’s bothered me about a lot of music crit for quite a few years, but that’s much bigger than the reception of this album.)

I interpret it as fear, insecurity. There's a first question that comes before "Do I like it?" which is "what will people think or say if I like it?", and somehow the latter is supposed to answer the former, and of course it does not work. Especially when there is no time, and you're looking for a big-picture justification about something that came out hours / days before, it's like self-inflicted torture, just because you don't want to go on record as having had a "bad take".

It's not just critiques. I swear you hear it in artists, who frame their work more and more, looking to provide the justification. Beyoncé has the privilege and luxury not to have to do that, and her album sounds more fresh, daring, immediate, less calculated than average.

Does queer have meaning for this album as a work or for her personally? (My fear from reading reviews only, not careful listening, is that queer is being exploited.)

I'm not following you.

this healing property is given the weight of a moral imperative.

Excellent line.

Beyonce's mentioning her queer uncle strikes me as defensive, which, of course, she didn't intend.

Tim F's question ("what is the conversation, and what does this specific artefact add to that conversation?") is among the ones I try answering in my own stuff except I'd reverse the order: what is this artifact, how does it work, and which conversation does it address?

Beyoncé has the privilege and luxury not to have to do that, and her album sounds more fresh, daring, immediate, less calculated than average.

"Calculated" isn't a condemnation, I hope! How can an album this deluxe and expensive NOT be calculated?

“Calculated” is a meaningless word, anyway

Rock 'n' roll is s'posed to be spontaneous, maaan.

Well, any art is calculated but must feel simple - easy, you get to perfection not by adding but by removing etc. that's what I meant.

“Beyonce's mentioning her queer uncle strikes me as defensive, which, of course, she didn't intend.”

I’m sure someone is already writing this, but there’s a 2022 Kendrick/Beyoncé think piece in this theme, maybe.

ooh

Lots of good posts! I'm not making the argument that she's not allowed, just pointing out that what she's doing at points on this album feels different than what she (or maybe any big popstar who dabbles in regional/subcultural sounds?) has done before. Possibly in a good way.

Would also like to point out that I'm not solely talking about queer culture, ie NOLA bounce is not a primarily queer music, even if some of its most well-known exponents are.

My rejoinder to that is that there is a reason why “Break My Soul” was mashed up with “Vogue” and that the phenomenon you’re describing has been paramount to most of Madonna’s career, and that’s before getting to the Whitney/Mariah remixes or Crystal Waters/CeCe Peniston/Martha Wash etc. Like, if this is a line of thought worthy of interrogation, should we also be questioning Bette Middler’s career?

or judy garland etc. etc.

the thing that bothers me about resident advisor's general approach to dance music is that it often seems to trot out an authenticity discourse that is ideological, class-signaling and pretty white in its own way. i think people like say omar-s pick up on that. trying to make authentic queerness into something class-based and just sort of gesturing rather than doing an actual class reading that looks at the past and thinks about the contradictions of the culture industry when it comes to producers vs. consumers serves no one but the writer and ra i guess. i would actually love to see terre thaemlitz on the subject, i'm sure he would do a much better job of it.

that being said, writers aren't exactly well supported for their work, so i don't want to be overharsh

judy garland was not a great addition to that list

I think that this is in part a case of rhetorical transplant, where writers deploy the same logical device from one issue to another that superficially looks the same to them. Within queer circles, most discussions of appropriation are about white cis male gay culture appropriating from black culture (in most cases straight-presenting cis female black culture), in large part through the inflection point of black trans culture. There’s obviously a lot of sense to the frame, though whether and how it applies in a variety of specific contexts is heavily contested as you might expect.

Bette Midler probably bypasses interrogation because of the sociocultural variants of the queer communities her career is most heavily associated with.

Beyoncé superficially provides a better fit in terms of the appropriation site (ballroom culture) but the specificity of her relationship to that scene, if any, is not really examined (though who has the time or the capacity, when they’re required to pump out a hot take review?), and that aporia gets skipped over with a handwaving “oh but she is wealthy so”

Not sure I would invoke Omar-S at this point though. He was very happy with the progressive pipecockification of music criticism right up to the point where it came after one of his friends.

My specific irritation with this entire line of thinkpiecing is that Black queer culture was perfectly happy to elevate vocally-slightly-better-than-average Beyonce to diva status over a decade ago, so it really feels like now that she is taking a strain that always existed in her musical output and spends an entire album exploring it, large swathes of people are ignoring the reception of her past output and how she intersected with the circles she is explicitly drawing from and celebrating with this album, seemingly because she's a light-skinned billionaire and not really because of the music itself or any claim she might have to incorporate it into her work. Bette Midler has a story that is much more explicit in its ties to gay fandom, which is why I brought her up; policing Beyonce of all people on this axis strikes me as being equally ridiculous as policing Bette, so my thesis is that bringing up the argument means you're using it as a proxy to attack her for being rich. Which, if that bothers you, just say it; it's 2022, half the people you encounter online want to murder anyone making more than $100K

(Going to state for the record that that last statement is knowing hyperbole so that people hopefully don’t get hung up on the specifics and grapple instead with the rhetorical intent behind the exaggeration)

yeah agree with DJP. also, to Tim's point:

I think that this is in part a case of rhetorical transplant, where writers deploy the same logical device from one issue to another that superficially looks the same to them.

― Tim F, Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:18 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

one might even call it 'rhetorical appropriation.' lol

not speaking of the beyonce RA piece specifically -- but of that maneuver in general

The problem with writing to a thesis.

Yet! Not using Beyonce's putative exploitation of subcultures as a paragraph-by-paragraph critique cripples that piece; but such an approach would've required a rigor that in itself wouldn't have satisfied me, for there's no way to write such a thing without getting into intentions.

I'm not talking about the RA review personally, just thinking about the moments on the album where she fully emulates a bounce mc and a ballroom mc respectively. To me they're the most striking parts of the album and also probably my favorite, but they also take me out of it because they're so specifically referential. Really they make me want to put on other records of that music.

one might even call it 'rhetorical appropriation.' lol

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 23:14 (yesterday) link

haha.

All this is part of a broader problem I have with current music writing which I alluded to above, being the twitter-induced collapse of the space between cultural studies and celebrity gossip (all of which is driven by the brutal economics of what most effectively induces reader responses), squeezing out anything that occupied a space in between those two poles (most notably any detailed or thoughtful consideration of the music) but also doing a big disservice to the "cultural studies" end of the resulting frankenstein's monster.

Like, to map's point above, I think there is an arguable basis to say that class analysis, wielded thoughtfully, can act as a skeleton key for the purpose of understanding the dynamics at play in various forms of social inequality, marginalisation, appropriation, co-optation etc. (I'm not sure I fully agree with this proposition, but I can appreciate the argument). But there's a certain... performative irony in then deploying that critical overlay primarily in the context of discussions of celebrity culture.

Trying to say something useful about the marginalisation of black trans communities and culture by reviewing a Beyonce record and then basically concluding that the problem is that Beyonce, personally, is not marginalised enough, strikes me as only marginally more useful an exercise than trying to identify sustainable environmental policies from the starting point of considering Taylor Swift's private jet carbon emissions. If your critical intervention boils down to "okay, but let's get serious about the broader social issues at work here" then get fucking serious about them, rather than writing what amounts to a vapid extended tweet about a celebrity. Critic, heal thyself.

Tim, I hope you can hear my applause and cheers faintly in the distance

Tim, wanna meet for a beer

this album is a dud but I gotta admit, they went all out on the vinyl packaging

album is absolutely not a dud but why would you want vinyl of something you don't like?

I had to stop playing it. Indelibly an August album.

I think it will sound good at Christmas

can't believe i still love this terry hunter remix, like andre squared. legit organ solo too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b9wQjg6qi8

andres that is

I think it will sound good at Christmas

― your original display name is still visible

For sure. About the only reason I like driving is to blast bumpers like this album.

album is absolutely not a dud but why would you want vinyl of something you don't like?

― your original display name is still visible (Left), Monday, October 10, 2022 2:53 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

it’s not a dud according to my gf!

I can't spin vinyl in my car :(

fair enough your gf is correct though xp

I had such high hopes for this that I don't think it would have ever lived up the potential it had in my head, but I've really not felt myself drawn to return to it at all

THIS ALBUM IS SO GOOD WTF k3vin???

u guys are crazy

in conlcusion i'm mad

possibly appropriative of queer culture which i'm poorly qualified to evaluate, but SO GOOD

i played "Heated" for my 1 year old daughter and got a little carried away dancing along...she looked alarmed

yesterday, i mean. i'm not eternally playing "Heated" for my daughter

OR AM I???

i had this same argument with my students at the beginning of the school year. they are also RONG about Renaissance

horsehoe otm

so you're saying that it's the children who are wrong

precisely

a horseshoe theory I can get behind

A game of horseshooooooe

good luck to everyone including me who will be trying to get tickets

may we not get another Taylor situation (this will most likely be another Taylor situstion)

if it's the "verified fan" thing then...yeah, it'll be the same as taylor (and springsteen and countless others). Godspeed.

I always find it funny when these tours are marketed as "world tours" when they really just mean parts of North America and Europe. Hopefully she will make it to Australia later in the year - the last time she did was in late 2013 pre-s/t (and it so happened that at that time I was living overseas)

lol one night here to Taylor's three ... gonna be a shit show.

Two Toronto dates were announced at first but the second date was removed a bit after, which makes me think extra dates will be announced when the first date inevitably sells out

yeah if you look at the dates there’s a lot of gaps in between, i’m sure they’re gonna announce multiple shows in most cities

new dates already added

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/arts/music/grammy-awards-beyonce.html

Setup:

NEW SHOWS ADDED: The tour has announced its first extension, adding second shows in 7 cities: Toronto, Chicago, Washington D.C., Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles and East Rutherford.

Punchline:

DEMAND UPDATE: These seven shows have been added to help as many concertgoers get tickets as possible, and are based on venue availabilities and scheduling for the tour. Fan demand already exceeds the number of tickets available by more than 800% based on the registration numbers in the Group A cities. It is expected that many interested fans may not be able to get tickets because demand drastically exceeds supply.

I feel pretty bad for fans of all these acts right now. It's as if every tour was the Victory tour and a farewell tour, all wrapped up.

I signed up for the Verified Fan presale for one of the two shows here and the "Beyhive" presale for the other date, I'll consider myself lucky if I even get into one of the two presales

xp How did things work before this, I can’t even remember… tickets just went on sale, and if you missed out, that was it? Like what is different now for this top tier of artists when they tour?

They are demanding a lot more money, and the promoters et al. are also demanding a lot more money.

But the scramble is to get tickets(?) Folks seem willing to pay… is demand just higher than ever?

Yeah, I dunno how that works. Wasn't demand huge for, say, Fleetwood Mac or the Eagles in the '70s? Madonna or Springsteen in the '80s? Were people getting shut out left and right due to demand and scalpers? I don't remember it that way, or at least, I don't remember any show I wanted to see that I did not get to see. But I suppose I didn't go to that many arena (let alone stadium) shows.

I guess the preregistration / “fan verification”thing just adds a new level of complexity?

If Ariana Grande ever tours again, it’s gonna be bananas… glad I spent what I spent for the seat I had at the final show of her last tour.

i preregistered and would honestly be willing to pay an unreasonable amount of money but that won't matter!

I'm split between paying an unreasonable amount of money and not paying for "dynamic pricing"/resale tix out of principle, fuck Ticketmaster and scalpers

i am kinda hoping this is the worst possible shit show and she plays to half empty houses and the pitchforks come out

They are demanding a lot more money, and the promoters et al. are also demanding a lot more money.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, February 3, 2023 12:34 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I was amazed to see she got $24 million for a single one hour show to open a new hotel in Dubai recently. Not directly related obv.

OK, so my wife, as always, is a voice of reason, theorizing pretty well exactly What Has Changed.

The first thing she noted is the presence of bots. We're a long way past scalpers hiring homeless people to line up for tickets, and what's more, Ticketmaster has no incentive to curb the bots at all, since driving up the secondary market only benefits them.

Second, she noted that before boomers, going to concerts to see big touring acts was not really a mass thing that people did, but it has been since the '60s. Another major factor is that the same acts the boomers saw in the '60s are *still touring*, and, importantly, the boomers are *still going to shows*. Live music, rock and pop and whatnot, used to be just for young people, but now, especially for a major legacy act, you're going to find an audience that ranges from teens to people in their '70s, depending on the act. The fan base of someone like Beyonce or Springsteen or Swift or whomever is just vast, spanning several generations at this point. Back in the '80s, say, Madonna fans were probably somewhere between 15 and 35, say. Now they're between 15 and 65, and the same goes for someone like Beyonce. That's a lot more people for the same number of tickets. Demand is up because the audience has never stopped growing.

That sounds right, although (without wanting to give Ticketmaster the benefit of the doubt for much), it seems like a lot of this rigamarole is meant to curb the bots, even if it's not foolproof(?)

I've gone pretty much from arena and stadium shows to all small venue shows overnight due to the ease/difficulty and expense of getting tickets, but it feels weird how I can get tickets at the door for an established great in a venue seating 150 while I have seconds to grab a ticket for a band in an arena seating 20,000. (Yes, jazz is far less popular than rock, pop and R&B but still...)

waitlisted for both presales/shows

sigh

i'm liking seeing red carpet photos of luke solomon and honey dijon at the grammys for their contributions to renaissance. amy douglas, the singer, was going off on ig about some kind of backlash related to beyonce coming from dj / dance music peeps. glad i never see that kind of hater energy lol. starting to really believe that the best dance music has always been pop music.

anytime RA posts a Beyoncé story you get a lot of purists going off, nary a pro-Beyoncé sentiment to be found.

oh noes

Much more retrograde user base than one would expect, not that I should be totally surprised by anything online involving comments and laugh emojis tbh

crying-behind-happy-mask.jpg

tfw most people think your no vocal 145 bpm bleep bloop fav that draws tastefully from rave culture or whatever is kinda boring

My experience with RA devotees is basically “what if the absolute worst people from Brainwashed.com had enough money for bottle service”

ahahaa

loooool

you really have to be a numbskull to not be down with Beyoncé doing house, it just seems like obviously a great thing?

funny how certain rave signifiers sound “tasteful” now when it was all so crass sounding

Curious.. now that Renaissance has had time to sit with people, how would you all would rank Beyonce's solo albums?

S/T > B'Day = 4 > Renaissance > Lemonade > the rest

Lemonade
Renaissance
4
s/t
B'Day
the rest

Lemonade
Self titled
B’Day
Dangerously in Love
4
= Renaissance
= Sasha Fierce

anytime RA posts a Beyoncé story you get a lot of purists going off, nary a pro-Beyoncé sentiment to be found.

― omar little, Tuesday, 7 February 2023 22:16 (yesterday)

tut tut tut why wont people give this billionaire pop star the reverence she so clearly deserves

4
Lemonade
Renaissance
Dangerously in Love
Beyonce
B’Day
Sasha Fierce

Beyoncé
B’Day
4
Dangerously In Love
Sasha Fierce
Renaissance
Lemonade

But I’m a weirdo on this board

I admit that I don't really cue up Lemonade almost ever, compared to the few I ranked directly below it. But it's obv great, et al

Ooh! Why the last two so low? xpost

I think it’s just a “I like the OLD Kanye” scenario.

Not sure about which of the top 2 to rank first. 4 is my favorite to listen to but I think Lemonade is the more significant, fully realized artistic statement.

Lemonade
4
Renaissance
ST
B'Day

Lemonade = Renaissance = Beyoncé
4
everything else

I think that’s probably right but i have to check my notes

Renaissance
Beyonce
Lemonade
4 (i'm one of a dozen or so people on the planet who thinks "Party" owns iirc)

nah, "Party" is great, if it's derided, that's news to me

Just about the only 4 track I don't rate is the one that makes me, by ILX definition, clinically insane

I heard "Party" on the local R&B station and it felt less obnoxious finally.

you lemonade people live in a different world than me

To revisit the “what has changed about touring” convo momentarily, I think another factor is that at a very general level “we” privilege ephemeral experiences - in the sense of being prepared to invest in them more heavily including financially - than we used to. Seeing an artist perform live has a different social value in a context where you can share (a snapshot of) that experience on social media such that it becomes, however unconsciously, a marker of social status and part of one’s personal brand.

One upshot of that is that a greater proportion of the population is prepared to spend a greater proportion of their disposable income on what is by definition a fleeting (and often a partly inconvenient or even frustrating) experience, because it has a longer term asset value beyond just their memory of it.

(The above is less true of boomers and so on, but I think a key factor here is how prepared even young people are to spend what is an obscene amount of money, in particular compared to their income levels)

See also: the way that social media has transformed the social function of art galleries.

you lemonade people live in a different world than me

― J0rdan S

a sourer one

Ranking Sasha Fierce above Renaissance and Lemonade...I've truly seen it all

In the order of composition, except Renaissance between 4 and the self titled.

I’m gonna pretend that means you like the debut most and lemonade least

Correct.

I would modify my list to replace Beyoncé with Beyoncé (Deluxe Edition).

I’m going to be on former ILX poster Fluffy Bear’s radio show again today at 8 PM Eastern, this time playing music sampled by or referenced in the songs from Renaissance, sourced partially by Matos’ NY Times article about the album. Tune into https://uncertain.fm tonight if you’re interested.

just shockingly got standard admission tix for the opening night show here in Toronto

absolutely shitty seats but still a miracle that there are standard admission tix left

Right now, you are on the waitlist for RENAISSANCE WORLD TOUR Verified Fan Onsale.

If tickets remain available to sell after the initially selected fans have shopped, we will use a lottery-style selection to invite Verified Fans from the waitlist to shop.

Stay tuned, if you’re selected to move off the waitlist, you will receive a text with a unique access code and link to join the Onsale.

Only Verified Fans with unique access codes will be able to join the Onsale. Do not attempt to join unless you receive a code.

If you’re on the waitlist, you’re not alone. Because registration demand was 8X over ticket inventory, most people are on the waitlist.

Usually, not everyone that gets an access code shows up to the sale, and some that show up don’t buy. We expect to lean into the waitlist to send more access codes out tomorrow. There likely won’t be enough tickets to go around, but you still have a shot.

If you registered for other onsales, you still have a chance to be selected based on the lottery-style process.

I honestly prefer the old everyone everywhere all at once system but I also prefer the Ticketmaster heads being chopped off by a guillotine system too

Because registration demand was 8X over ticket inventory

The system is bonkers, but if this is what it takes to combat the scalper bots…..

I know I'm old when I'm at the Beyoncé show and having fun and all, amazing show (visuals are stunning despite the Jim Morrison quote lol)

AND

I'm noticing her business acumen - correct me if other artists do this bc I've only started going to bigger shows again in the past few years - she had merch on sale outside of the venue beside the lineups to get in and on the floor of the stadium (in addition to the usual spots), I've never seen artists do this before

also, I do know other artists do this but how long have bigger touring acts been putting out city/stop-exclusive shirts/merch?

Feels like for a few years at least, for pop stars. Often there is a pop-up shop a day or so beforehand, which actually makes a certain amount of sense. You get to hang out with other fans, and you get to buy your stuff early and not have to carry it around with you for the duration of the show. Merch wise, the differences from date to date seem to be modest. But certainly some rock bands have been putting out city exclusive merch for a while now, people like Pearl Jam and the like. Wilco, Jason Isbell, jam bands ... for silkscreen artists and designers, it has been a real boon and safety net.

oh yeah, she also had a pop-up store/exhibition of her more notable looks here as well

Jenna Wortham on Bey and the tour.

concert film on Dec. 1st

digging Taylor and now her bypassing the streamers yessssss

new song played during the credits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuBdV0BIIMw

film itself is great, teared up a few times, etc. nothing you don't expect at this point from her

Act II coming out March 29, the clip of the new single suggests a country album??? I AM SEATED

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3Ot8xfRIaA/?igsh=YmRsanc0MnhxNmly

first two songs are wonderful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g92AYBlNOi0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fV37wdHG8U

oh god yes

“16 Carriages” is astonishing

yeah it is

Oh damn I am very into this

Digging both songs a lot. Apparently Rhiannon Giddens plays on “Texas Hold ‘Em”.

oh awesome

I think my favourite part across the two songs is the whistling coda to "Texas Hold 'Em". "16 Carriages" reminds me of Kelis' "Floyd" a bit?

Did not think a new Beyoncé song could be…refreshing?

Her voice is so well suited to this! Guess "16 Carriages" was written by Atia Boggs and Raphael Saadiq, with Robert Randolph on steel.

“16 carriages” sounds great. “Texas hold em” idk… but I do like the coda.

As someone who hasn’t really vibed with most beyonce since “b’day” this sounds like it has potential to be the Beyonce album that brings me back.

Reserving judgment, but Renaissance was my favorite Beyonce album and this sounds very much not like that, so

I think that for me I wasn’t really vibing with her because in her early records there was a vulnerability that made her more relatable to me and it got gradually lost as she grew up to be more of an “imperial” artist. “16 carriages” makes her sound vulnerable again, at least to my ears.

I wasn’t expecting to feel excited about a Beyonce album this late in her career.

2024 is going to be a stacked year

I like the idea of this culturally but not so into the music.

I mean, she sounds amazing, but I wish it stayed closer to the dynamics of the verses and didn't feel the need for those stadium production touches, kinda ruins it for me.

Kinda want Act III to be metal.

egg punk

Agree with this take:

But as with “Break My Soul,” Beyoncé’s attempts at 9-to-5 relatability can ring slightly hollow from beyond the veil of privacy and security her monies afford—it’s just as difficult to imagine her boot-scootin’ at a honky-tonk as it was to imagine her rolling at the club. The ho-hey stomp-clap of it all, complete with an Andy Griffith whistle, veers dangerously close to the border of Lumineers car-commercial music; this is working-class music for folks who can afford to drive a Lexus.

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/beyonce-texas-hold-em/

Eh. I find a lot of her stuff kind of hollow, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of country fans that drive Lexuses. It's not like Beyonce is covering (or aiming for) Hank Williams. Plus: she is from Texas, after all.

Lol I thought of Lumineers listening to Texas Hold Em which is why I didn’t really like that one on first impression.

“Artists with too much money are inherently fake” is certainly a take, I guess

From Marissa R Moss’s weekly newsletter today re Beyonce

“Texas Hold ‘Em” is a perfect country song for the moment. The inclusion of Giddens, whose life mission has been a full-scale historical reeducation on the Black roots of country music and country instrumentation, makes it revelatory (Giddens and Beyoncé, as Natalie just said in a conversation we were having about this, were both shut out of the Country Music/Music Row machine, for both different but very connected reasons!). The omissions – a Nashville producer, a Music Row co-writer – tell a story, too. Beyoncé didn’t need to build a country record with Nashville, because anything she could borrow they had already taken out on loan.

You can add three seconds of banjo to a white man’s record, and suddenly it’s country. I have a feeling there will be arguments and diatribes on why “Texas Hold ‘Em” and “16 Carriages” are not – we will hear a lot of the “just adding banjo doesn’t make it country.” The tell of that is they simply cannot register the Black ownership of the instrument in the first place. A white person holding it is authentic, while a Black person is show, signaling, fake.

https://dontrocktheinbox.substack.com/p/issue-42-beyonce-and-the-horse-she?publication_id=115265&post_id=141610190&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=5x9it

You can get a brand ass new Lexus for under 40k

"texas hold em" definitely does have stomp-and-holler lumineers-esque qualities. "16 carriages" is much better.

Beyoncé makes music for the elite 40 percenters

Sounds like the perfect record us to spin and fight about in this particular year

people made the same complaints about "break my soul," which was also silly. at the time, i tweeted something along the lines of:

*billionaire beyoncé makes song about dead-end job*
twitter: whoa whoa whoa slow down moneybags!
*hundred-millionaire/theme park proprietor dolly parton makes song about dead-end job*
twitter: <3 <3 <3

I was tired of the incoming tide of thinkpieces as soon as I heard the first few notes, but also approve of country music fans being forced to reckon with Beyonce.

I am a huge country -- and Beyonce -- fan and am very happy to hear her take on the genre (loved "Daddy Lessons"). I just wish "Texas Hold Em" didn't sound like the Lumineers!

my big question last night was: why did she do a Verizon commercial? not judging her, just seems like something she normally wouldn't do.

if the answer is "money" then how much money do you think it takes to get Beyonce to do a commercial?

or is it something more / bigger than that, i.e. they bankroll a tour (still money, i know) or maybe gave her a free line on her family plan for Blue Ivy's new phone?

fwiw a friend in advertising guesstimates she made $15-20mm for that spot

Not bad for a couple days of work.

people made the same complaints about "break my soul," which was also silly.

i think it's silly if you just take people's objections at the surface level of "this rich person is singing about doing 9-5 work" but i think there is a more bedrock criticism happening about her ability to inhabit songs that are not from her own perspective. and i would say that is generally fair criticism because i think beyonce has cultivated an artistic & celebrity persona that makes it hard for her to sing from the POV of a working class striver. like, this person's entire persona is based around the concept of regality, untouchability, virtuosity beyond comprehension ... partly of her own doing and partly of her stans but also from critics, commentators, talking heads -- beyonce as Queen Bey is not just some incidental context for her life's work. so for her to successfully inhabit the character of a 9-5 clock puncher she has to go the extra mile that other wealthy artists may not have to, and i personally would agree w/ people that "break my soul" and "texas hold em" do not succeed on those grounds. we'd all agree that "break my soul" is one of the least essential songs on that album right? that's not coincidental.

you can compare her to taylor swift who is constantly being hounded over her wealth -- she's currently trying to prevent some twitter account from tracking her private jet etc -- but when she writes in character, people don't stop and say "hold on we don't believe you." and that's because her artistic and celebrity persona has long established her credibility in that arena. i would say that this is largely for artistic reasons -- taylor has been writing in character forever -- but also because she chooses to craft her celebrity in a way that maintains the veneer of accessibility i.e. fan meet and greets, standing on stage at her shows and speaking at length to the audience etc

the idea of beyoncé as existing on a different plane than the rest of us is the driving force of her art. we want something from her concerts that we don't, and don't expect, from taylor, to just use that example. we want to see beyoncé spend 2 hours showing us how inferior we are to her. but i'd also point out that the world *has* responded extremely positively to beyonce cracking the facade and showing us what is happening in her personal life, showing us that even the most untouchable genius artist of a woman may marry a man who fucks around behind her back. there is a huge amount of power in leveling with her audience in that way, as she has shown since the self-titled. i just don't think ppl wanna hear her talking about doing normal people stuff out in the real world! she doesn't do that and nobody really buys that character from her, and not being able to credibly sing about going to dive pars is a small price for her to pay given the rest of what she is capable of pulling off

(dive bars)

What helps or hinders Beyonce is that she's not a songwriter in the way Swift is; her public image doesn't depend on her audience's regard for her as a songwriter, therefore playing characters doesn't quite work for her.

i also actually do think "break my soul" largely connected w/ ppl in the real world on an emotional level, there is an urgency to the way she sings the chorus that i do think helped it stick as a club song even tho it's based off a tired sample and stuff like that. people will readily believe that there are forces holding beyonce back that she needs to move past just like the rest of us, i just think going the extra step to sing about 9 to 5s and dive bars is the part where people are like "yeah you don't need to do all that" & i would agree

I'm not sure that anyone else could have invested "Break My Soul" with more conviction - a homage to the idea of house music as a release from the dreary humdrum world of the working week is about as overdone as quoting "Show Me Love" is musically, and the fact that it rises above stuff like Michael Gray's "The Weekend" or Riton X Nightcrawlers' "Friday" at all is really down to Beyonce's performance. But I agree with J0rdan otherwise.