Floating Points and Pharoah Sanders and London Symphony Orchestra - Promises (2021)

Because it deserves a thread and is lovely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEjnkwnluWc

yes! got the 180gram lp on the way to me noooow. I am curious if this is gonna work as weekend morning coffee music AND late night candle vibes music. I think so.

Gonna be the awkward squad and say this record is bland pastiche. The Sanders bits are lush, but to get to them, you have to sit through what feels like hours of FP's sub-FlyLo waftiness and the LSO's pastiche Alice Coltrane strings. It's just so polite and tasteful and bougie, a million miles from the genuinely radical and wildly inventive approaches to jazz & electronics from Black Top, Moor Mother, the Rolling Calf, Angel Bat Dawid et al. Frustrating that it'll receive more attention than any number of great jazz records out this year. I do find Floating Points and Kieron Hebden's fetishisation and gentrification of vintage spiritual jazz a bit iffy, particularly when they largely ignore subsequent developments (or at least only allow certain things that fit the narrative), and strip out the politics.

i don't think i necessarily disagree with any of that but i also think there's room for both? Sanders, in the US especially, doesn't get the kind of props he deserves and this is likely to pull a lotta younger folks into Sanders who might otherwise never know so i'm less concerned with this eating up critical oxygen than you seem to be.

Maybe, but Sanders deserves better! Maybe I see it differently from a UK context, where FP and Hebden occupy something of a tastemaker/gatekeeper role, taking radical black forms and making them acceptable for Guardian readers.

I was excited for this but found it a bit of a snooze tbh

Could be nice if I was properly zooted though

xp lol, both of those guys are essentially unknown in america except by a specific sort of obsessive music nerd who either already knows Sanders or work at a tech firm.

I don't know if it's fair coming at it from the point of view that Sanders has no agency in this collab - that he's being used and appropriated rather than being the main focus of the record? Without him it's not a record, which is why he's so out in front throughout the piece.

tbf this thing took five years which leads me to believe that sanders was either deeply involved or stopped off and knocked this out in a weekend

but obvs there's a big difference between "Sanders has no agency in this collab" and "I find FP's fetishisation and gentrification of vintage spiritual jazz a bit iffy"

I do think Sanders has been part of some projects where he's just been a punched-in element; a couple of his albums with Bill Laswell have that feel. But here he's absolutely the centerpiece. I really like his vocal bits as much as his horn playing.

I think it's getting critical raves because a lot of critics these days fall over for music that won't wake the baby. But this thing really is quite beautiful at times, and the production and mixing are phenomenal. As a headphone album, it's fantastic.

Maybe I see it differently from a UK context, where FP and Hebden occupy something of a tastemaker/gatekeeper role, taking radical black forms and making them acceptable for Guardian readers.

.... huh

well i look forward to hearing this

Yeah, I wouldn't want to suggest Sanders has no agency. The record is clearly built around him. A big issue is that he can't play for too long, so the question is how do you work around that. Less of an issue in a studio setting, but I imagine they wanted to retain a live/real time feel. When I saw him at Le Guess Who a couple of years ago, I found it pretty disappointing, because the band just held down the harmonies and grooves for long stretches between his solos without really taking it anywhere themselves. I guess folks like that chilled out spiritual jazz drift, but I miss the spontaneity.

jazz in general is certainly a blindspot for me but this was very immediately compelling to me, much more so than the jazz records that crossover to getting widespread critical acclaim usually are

it's a really nice listen but i'm willing to believe it could be nothing really special as far as spiritual jazz etc. is concerned though

Only FP thing I liked was the Mojave desert album. Everything else is just a bit bland but he gets a lot of 'but it'll bring in xxx audience to xxx' votes, and that's prob true so hey.

I'm only on the fourth movement right now, but I don't think I'd really refer to this as "spiritual jazz." At least off the top of my head I can't think of anything this specifically reminds me of...? My first impression when Sanders started playing was it sounded like the soundtrack to the love scene in a 1970s scifi movie (a compliment, if that isn't clear), and this has yet to move firmly into jazz territory, though FP just started playing some Rhodes so maybe soon

some thoughts from Gio in the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/arts/music/floating-points-pharoah-sanders-promises-review.html

"I do find Floating Points and Kieron Hebden's fetishisation and gentrification of vintage spiritual jazz a bit iffy, particularly when they largely ignore subsequent developments (or at least only allow certain things that fit the narrative), and strip out the politics."

FP isnt black, nor African American, so I'm not sure how great an idea it would be for him to do this. He prob relates to it in sonic, emotional ways. And that is prob more honest.

i'm not sure i associate spiritual jazz with four tet but ymmv i guess

that piece clarifies that pharoah sanders sought out floating points to collaborate with after being really impressed by elaenia so

R/A: https://ra.co/reviews/33747

Floating Points: Pharoah...

Pharoah Sanders: Huh?

Floating Points: Were you asleep? I'm sorry...

Pharoah Sanders: No no... I was listening... and dreaming... and listening to music in my head...

Floating Points: Oh wow. Sorry.

Pharoah Sanders: Many times, people think I might be asleep... but in fact, I am just listening to music in my head. I'm always listening... to the sounds around me... and playing, in my mind... and sometimes I dream.

Floating Points: What were you dreaming about?

Pharoah Sanders: I'm on a ship. In the ocean. Bears coming around smoking cigars. The bears are singing, 'We have the music. We have what you're looking for.'

Pharaoh Sanders is mark s confirmed

gonna send this album to my mom

speaking to Stew's point earlier in thread, i will say that lines like "It would be easy to just have Sanders blow constantly" from the RA piece do suggest that folks overestimate Sanders' spryness... it would NOT be easy to have Sanders blow constantly! if you wanted to produce the same sort of experiential album it would be impossible.

My kneejerk conclusion is it's better to think of this as New Age rather than jazz, even of the spiritual hat variety (though to update my earlier post: when the LSO kicks in the Alice C mimicry is undeniable). And under that rubric I'm not sure I can get all that worked up about the cultural politics

it certainly doesn't feel like there's anything really to get worked up about when sanders is the one who instigated the collaboration imo

Just got through this for the first time, and I think it's unspeakably gorgeous. One thing it is is an extended celebration of the mysterious beauty of the Dorian mode, which is strong enough to sustain interest for 46 minutes via that enchanting 7-note motif that repeats over and over. Obviously the strings are Alice Coltrane pastiche, particularly in Movement 6, but I think it's done well and reverently.

Oh man, I missed the window to pre-order this on Amazon (I know, I know, but I'm still not comfortable hitting up most record shops just yet) and it looks like the CD version is already out of stock until next month. Which is a good since for Sanders, he deserves more love!

i've heard this now and it's not quite my thing (a single repeated motif that anchors the entire piece? makes me feel like i gotta be really in the mood to hear those notes lol) but it is pretty cool. i'm with rob, can't think of a spiritual hat jazz record it resembles, so i can't quite wrap my head around accusing it of pastiche. i mean, certainly the orchestral parts will get the alice coltrane heads nodding but otherwise? if it were slightly more or less dissonant it would be kinda at home on ecm

I really like his vocal bits as much as his horn playing.

these parts really stunned me

huge xpost with rob lol

"good sign" - jfc, I don't know where that typo came from

that motif is so good though

it is really good. love the way movement 7 takes off

both of those guys are essentially unknown in america except by a specific sort of obsessive music nerd who either already knows Sanders or work at a tech firm.

lol, I'm burnt

jon, if you don't want to use Amazon (a decision I support), you can get this on bandcamp

Duh, didn't even think to check over there. Done, thanks!

Pharoah Sanders is 80, so I'm happy to see him getting late-career flowers, even if people think it's overly tasteful or critic-bait or whatever

i'm not sure i associate spiritual jazz with four tet but ymmv i guess

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, March 26, 2021 8:32 AM (thirty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

There are the Steve Reid records, and he tends to include some in his DJ sets, also just sort of a sonic touchstone for him (and Floating Points).

ahhh well i’m guessing that i’m revealing that i only really engage with four tet’s bangers/remixes that are bangers

if you want a clearer sense of what sanders is bringing to this, stick around for the very yawnsomely bombastic coda, which i just clipped from my own playlist after the second spin.

Also I'm just thrilled to hear more spiritual jazz featuring the harpsichord. There's not much of it out there--McCoy Tyner Trident comes to mind, and what else? I'm blanking out at the moment...

Assuming Love Cry by Albert Ayler isn't "spiritual jazz".

he's not wearing a hat on the cover so...

After one listen this is a gorgeous piece, like stretching out the rubato intro from Alabama or Crescent over a whole album. I like how it's all basically one piece, the light touch + no drums, and that it all feels like a platform for Sanders. Can see how someone would find it overly restrained/tasteful though, it's a very delicate mood to sustain, and there are moments (mostly when PS is not playing) when it feels like nothing is happening.

well I guess I gotta get this, and yeah like Brad my mom will love it

i suppose it's damning to say this would be a great video game soundtrack but it's not meant to be!

what

actually i was on the verge of loling that a bunch of writers were celebrating this excellent writing music so i guess i get where you're coming from forks

actually i was on the verge of loling that a bunch of writers were celebrating this excellent writing music so i guess i get where you're coming from forks

I'm only half joking when I say that the impact of critics being stuck at home with small children really ought to be examined.

I kind of expected this to be closer to Floating Points “Elaenia” album and I’m a bit disappointed it’s not but it’s gorgeous in a different way.

the price of entry is very low here but I'm sure not in a mindset right now to dismiss something due to ease of enjoyment

Super weird complaining about this album getting attention though, as if someone who listens to jazz often only has the time to listen to one record each year.

twas ever thus

would it be better to think of this as ambient rather than jazz (or classical) or would that just be exchanging one load of baggage for another

Or if it’s complaining about media attention, then yeah but isn’t it obvious that an album between two well known artists from different genres would get reported and reviewed in at least twice the publications specialized in certain genred? Is it worth getting angry that ResidentAdvisor is reviewing this album instead of another “more experimental” jazz album? Do those other jazz albums feature a prominent electronic producer?

Not music-related, but Julie Mehretu is my favorite visual artist so it's wild to me that they used one of her paintings for the cover. It's really like every single aspect of this album was calculated to maximally attack the pleasure centers of my brain

This is lovely. Not far from what I kind of expected from it. It's recorded and produced immaculately and sounds incredible on a nice system or set of cans.

I don't like this at all, pretty boring imo. I prob wouldn't even care about saying this and I'd more likely be like "that's nice I'm glad they did it" if it wasn't a hyped up thing

I def prefer metallica doing nothing else matters w/ london symphony orchestra

It's not surprising that it's getting attention and in an ideal world it shouldn't be an issue. Again, there's maybe a difference in perspective between the US and UK. I look at the jazz coverage in prestige US media with envy. The NYT has room for the likes of Tyshawn Sorey and Satoko Fuji alongside Pharoah and FP, as it should be. Not so in the UK mainstream media, which tends to treat jazz as marginal. Even the music press, such as it is, tends to have at best a handful of jazz artists/albums it pays attention to. The British jazz explosion has opened things up a little, but we've still a long way to go.

Even the music press, such as it is, tends to have at best a handful of jazz artists/albums it pays attention to. The British jazz explosion has opened things up a little, but we've still a long way to go.

All I'll say for now is, wait till the new Sons of Kemet drops in May. There's a poem on the first track that'll set your conservative politicians' heads on fire, if the publicist does their job.

That's interesting. I have an opposite view from the US-perspective. It seems like the UK has many more outlets that cover jazz, new jazz is taken more seriously, and many more jazz records are sold in the UK than in the US. I definitely see that in both markets big names or names that are a part of accepted scenes get the most coverage, yeah there's a very long way to go.

nice, I had no idea there was a new Kemet album coming

That's interesting. A Peter Kowald quote in the William Parker biography about jazz not receiving proper recognition in the country of its birth certainly holds true. The situation has maybe improved in certain respects since he said that in the early 80s, but there's obviously much work to be done. The UK does have Jazzwise, The Wire, Jazz Journal, Jazz FM and Radio 3, alongside various smaller ventures, but it feels that the music struggles to break out of its specialist outlets. It's cool that electronic music mags, for example, are picking up on aspects of it, but it tends to be vintage stuff a DJ has played out or reissues. That said, the likes of Moor Mother and International Anthem as a whole are really changing the game.

X-post - I'm excited to hear the new SOK. I loved the FUCK THE TORIES bit on their last album.

This improves on headphones but after maybe five plays through I think I am likely to return only for “””vibes””” listening.

I think I have figured out what this composition sounds like to me: Mort Garson!

This is outstanding. By the time I get to movement 6 I’m floating.

as expected, my mom loves this album

I enjoyed this more on second listen—it helped to know what I was getting into. The Alice mimicry in 6 grates, and 8 swings too far into aimless noodling IMO. But everyone is otm about how good it sounds, and as Jordan said it's quite impressive in its delicacy.

I've been thinking of it as the Moon Shaped Pool of jazz ('jazz') albums

gilles peteron featuring it right now on bbc 6 music. might just be the part he is playing but theres very little sanders that i can hear. its almost as if its built around sanders, though idk, ive not read how it was made. seems quite excellent though, if a bit too precise (though thats just FP i think).

weird thing gilles said before he played it was that some people apparently said there was no reason to play it as it was already out, which is just weird. id much rather hear it on the radio than as streaming audio on lower bit rates etc.

the synths on this passage im hearing really keep reminding me of daft punk's touch

saw pharoah live a few years back and he totally still had it. FP albums have left me kinda bored in the past tho.

still gotta listen but hope this is less like the spawn soundtrack and more like the judgement night soundtrack.

Promises (To Put You Asleep)

Are vocals involved?

Only very very briefly

Then I’m in!

Are there proper vocals or just mutterings? I dont think I actually want any classic 70s spiritual jazz style chanting in 2021.

xp I'd be curious to hear your take for sure

I really can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the singing is (personally I'd be up for more). We're far from Leon Thomas here

Yeah, it's not full-on Leon Thomas-style yodeling; it's Pharoah kind of muttering and humming to himself (as he does onstage sometimes). It works very well in the context of the whole piece.

Not to be morbid, but considering this could be his final album, I found the vocals quite moving

I'd like to know how it was assembled... cant seem to find any interviews though.

the NYT piece upthread talks about how it started

finding this more pleasant than mindblowing but its better than i expected 2021 pharoah to be and thats good enough. dont get the annoyance at the alice coltrane part. "sounds too much like some of the greatest music ever!" sure its pastiche but idgaf it sounds good.

^^^^^

Amusingly this hasn’t even got a review in The Guardian, so the gate keeping is going really well.

Anyway I tried to listen to this yesterday afternoon but my two small children came in the room and harshest my buzz. So I listened to it last night after my two small children were asleep and it seemed very nice, though I would have liked drums, because I love drums. I’m only aware this exists because I follow FP on Instagram and because my friend from uni, who has three small children and still enjoys a spliff I imagine was raving at me about it over WhatsApp while I was bathing my two small children. I have not seen any reviews of it but I don’t really read the music press anymore, and just rely on social media for ‘ambient’ recommendations that I absorb via osmosis, which is how I listen to most music these days. I’ve listened to the Kelly Lee Owens albums way more than any FP albums because he’s just a bit sterile a lot of the time. I was hoping doing something with a real live jazz person, albeit a hat-wearing one, might have brought some grit and blood to proceedings. This will probably get played in my house quite a bit because I can cook and read to it and I’m trapped here with two small children.

Anything with a hint of spiritual balm about it is quite the spiritual balm these days, to be fair.

Casper, who is three, is playing with Star Wars Lego and singing “boots and cats and boots and cats” from Hey Duggee right now. I wish FP did more “boots and cats”.

You should get your kids to review it.

Amusingly this hasn’t even got a review in The Guardian, so the gate keeping is going really well

Kitty Empire heard the bat signal and rushed one out 50 minutes later:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/mar/28/floating-points-pharoah-sanders-lso-promises-review-extraordinary

All I'll say for now is, wait till the new Sons of Kemet drops in May. There's a poem on the first track that'll set your conservative politicians' heads on fire, if the publicist does their job.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, March 26, 2021 12:50 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

To be honest this is the most exciting thing I've read on this thread...

_Amusingly this hasn’t even got a review in The Guardian, so the gate keeping is going really well_

Kitty Empire heard the bat signal and rushed one out 50 minutes later:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/mar/28/floating-points-pharoah-sanders-lso-promises-review-extraordinary🕸

The fact that the Guardian has a music reviewer who took her pen name from a Big Black song is pretty amusing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw6e9gCpCdE

Xpost not all music has to set heads on fire to be good.

I was hoping doing something with a real live jazz person, albeit a hat-wearing one, might have brought some grit and blood to proceedings.

I know "spiritual hat" is an ILM meme that I myself invoked earlier, but implying that it would be surprising for Pharoah Sanders to bring "grit and blood" to something compared to other jazz players makes me think it's not really useful as shorthand

Remember, he is 80! I saw him 20 years ago, and he was definitely good and vital, but the show wasn't exactly the return of Tauhid and Karma.

I know. I'm just objecting to "albeit a hat-wearing one," which implies spiritual jazz has no grit or blood, an assertion I find generally wrong but particularly so in a discussion of Sanders

i.e., if Scik had said "albeit an 80-year old" I wouldn't have posted

"spiritual jazz hat" is not an ilx-ism btw
https://www.instagram.com/spiritualjazzhats

forks, the phrase is "spiritual hat"

JAZZ IS LIKE HEROIN TO ME ! ! ! ~~~~ ILM POST-1945 JAZZ ALBUMS POLL - THE RESULTS COUNTDOWN (now counting top 25!)

suggesting it's a derivation thereof but maybe i'm wrong? i've heard it in the wild.

I mean, sure, other people in the world have noticed the hat thing, but I think that phrase has a specific resonance on the borad. Happy to never talk about this ever again though :)

deal

listening to the record and it’s making me think of The Pavilion of Trees by Harold Budd

The Pavilion of Dreams*

for the record: Poll of SPIRITUAL HATS

I find this record quite frustrating. Some beautiful playing from Sanders, which makes me wish he had better material to work with. I don't mind that it's a pastiche, but it is nowhere near the level of the stuff it is imitating. With Alice Coltrane's or Sander's own compositions, the music might have repetition but it is always developing, always shifting the pulse, always colouring the harmonies with new variations.

By contrast, Floating Point's harmonic palette feels bland and restricted. And above all else, I find the sheer rhythmic squareness to be quite grating. The central motif is beaten into the ground again and again and tarnished through lack of development. It's a pity, because Pharoah is in good form, and he is a musician I always enjoy listening to. But I can't say I enjoy Floating Point's arrangements very much, they seem marred by a certain kind of neoclassical sensibility that is terrified of letting anything dissonant or strange into the music. The final result is a great musician in a pedestrian package, some nice moments but not quite transcending that.

This is spot on Mirostones. I think your point about a neo-classical sensibility is particularly astute. The strings reference Alice Coltrane in the most obvious way, and while the heavy atonalism of her arrangements on World Galaxy wouldn't be appropriate here, there's none of the complex harmony or intensity you get with even her most serene pieces. It feels very much like a jazz equivalent of middlebrow contemporary classical, referencing more radical stuff while making it politely bourgeois. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in the same kind of earnest chill-out pantheon as Max Richter's Sleep, although obviously the presence of Sanders instantly makes it 1000 x more interesting and affecting than any of his posh muzak.

I must say I'm surprised it's not been reviewed in the Graun yet, but the Observer has published a review, so the daily will surely follow. Just hope we don't get a Petridish effort that patronises the readership by making centrist dad digs at avant-garde jazz.

in the record's defence, i think it flirts with something much more interesting - on "Movement 2" for instance, which is kinda sublime - but some of the valleys (like "movement 6" iirc) are close to schlock.

People throwing around words like "schlock" ITT have clearly never heard Pharoah's version of "The Greatest Love of All."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZFXpnpM5nk

Someone upthread mentioned not being able to think of another jazz record utilizing a central motif so strongly...and while some might not consider it so, I'd argue that Gania's use of the guembri forms the absolute backbone of one of my favorite records of all time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaPnidEujwM

Brotzmann's stuff with the gnwana musicians is fantastic. Last year's Catch Of A Ghost was brilliant too. William Parker's Double Sunrise Over Neptune is another one with some great riffs/motifs underpinning the tunes. Obviously they're doing a very different thing to PS & FP - a more forceful kind of trance music, with much more spontaneity and dissonance. And a drummer like Hamid Drake - who's on both those projects - can find infinite variation in a groove, so it never gets dull. FP is going for a more serene, blissed out thing, and I get why people dig that, but I just find his version of that to be predictable and polite. That harpsichord motif, and the overall lack of harmonic development or spontaneity, gets monotonous.

Gnawa!

Stew, totally. I guess I was just trying to raise an example of 'spiritual jazz' that relies on singular motifs running through a whole record, with the WELS concert being a good example off the top of my head. (I also just plug this record at every chance I get, it changed my perspective about 16 years ago when I found it in a forlorn freeform bin at my uni radio station).

I will also say— I like this FP + PS record okay, but the description of it as 'polite' is exactly right. It also doesn't go in many unanticipated directions...While that isn't necessarily a bad thing, since the sound is so lovely, it's certainly more 'supper time' music than I was expecting.

Gonna listen to this now, never having heard (or heard of) Floating Points or Pharaoh Sanders and having no acquaintance with this style of music but a rabbi friend of mine said it was amazing

I think I... don't know how to listen to this? But I will give it more goes.

#6 in UK album chart. Who'd have thought Sanders would finally have a top 10 album in his eighties.

I don't find myself wanting to go back to this much, but we'll see. I tried to slide it in for Sunday morning crossword time but got a "no saxophones, please". :)

(also it's wild to me how many people haven't heard of Pharaoh Sanders, but I was a jazz nerd)

Yeah, I've had to explain who he is far more than i would've expected.

Also I will never forgive Pharoahe Monch for forever ruining my confidence in spelling Pharaoh

i'm generally extremely skeptical of "too polite" as a criticism, i think it's pretty much a meaningless phrase that just means "i don't like this that much and i want to say it's for a reason"

I'm generally skeptical of people who are extremely skeptical of "too polite" as a criticism.

It means its bourgeois dinner party music, bro.

Which is fine, but I mean, that's not really what I was anticipating.

of all the things to reasonably anticipate sounding "bourgeois" (loathe this term fwiw), collab btw a symphony orchestra, jazz elder statesman, and luaka bop recording artist is pretty much the top of the list

the only person I know anything about is Sanders. Floating Points mean nothing to me. So if approaching from that perspective, it's maybe slightly surprising.

God yr a miserable lot, I'm saying it's a nice album but not what I was anticipating. Get over it.

I'm still really enjoying this, works best as morning music for me

There’s a classic ilm zing where poster a disparages something as “dinner party music” & poster b says something like fyi dinner party music is great if you have friends & know how to use a fork

ahem

not sure that cleaving tofu proves you know how to use a fork, I'm dubious

I literally defend Windham Hill stuff on ILM, and posted in the ECM thread last week. I'm not opposed to dinner party music. Stop projecting.

I do get that this is a bit of a surprise if you come to it only knowing Sanders

for some reason the FP dude's twinkly nonsense works for me here, I think b/c it is indistinguishable from (and blends with) the more delicate orchestra parts.

Haha I wasn’t having a go table I was just reminded of that classic post of yore ❤️

sorry wins, I was just trying to clarify my position— it's a lovely album, but because of Sanders' presence and my lack of knowledge re: Floating Points, I guess I was expecting something a little more wild.

not sure that cleaving tofu proves you know how to use a fork, I'm dubious

i know they did some anal cunt stuff during these sessions hopefully will see the light of day in the deluxe reissue someday

First listen winding down right now. Really, really enjoyed this as a meditative, early morning experience.

(Also note that I don’t have a lot of PS foreknowledge.)

This album is lovely, but a lot shorter, slighter and accessible than I had expected from either of these artists. Not a bad thing

Given the people involved, I think you could make a decent bingo card for the descriptors that are going to get chucked at this (Pharoah because where's the fire? Floating Points because record collection music, the symphony orchestra being way too on the nose): safe, bourgeois, boring, flat, dinner party, coffee table, polite, torpid, middle class, bougie. It makes me think of Ogmor's rant on the Mary Lattimore thread - the short version of which is that it sounds like music for people that have given up. I mean he was obviously trying to get a rise out of people (and how!) but there's a kernel of truth in there somewhere. I suppose a thought experiment is something like 'what if this were x musicians?', would it be getting the same interest?

Fwiw, I was armed with my little bingo card when I put this on and ended up really liking it. I'll admit I'm projecting a Pharoah narrative as my get out of jail card (something like: I need to see this as redemptive, evidence of peace at the end of his life, a spiritual cwtch from someone that knows) but I think it's lovely either way.

I thought this was fine ambient music for a calm Saturday afternoon but I can't imagine returning to it. The part with the big string crescendo felt really obvious, like it was designed for the penultimate scene in a BBC crime drama. I think about other music from a similar universe I've enjoyed lately - Gigi Masin, Mary Lattimore, Ulla - and I think the obvious defecit this has is that it lacks personality, it doesn't feel comparably unfamiliar or singular.

Conclusion: EOY winner

fwiw i tried putting this on at dinner last night and imo its way too sleepy to consider for an actual dinner party

the short version of which is that it sounds like music for people that have given up

rage, rage against the dying of the light making an effort to enjoy unpleasant music for some reason

I listened to this on a walk at dusk yesterday and it’s just not for me. It’s so formal and whatever nonexistent movie it’s soundtracking is not a movie I have any interest in seeing. The big Disney cinema string climax is a no, thanks. Loved Sanders, throughout, though!

Also, anyone who would put this on at a dinner party is a total psycho

I mean he was obviously trying to get a rise out of people (and how!) but there's a kernel of truth in there somewhere

not sure this is a given

Nor do I to be clear. I think it's poorly framed as rhetoric because 'given up' is so loaded as a phrase but it does gnaw at me and that makes me think it's worthy of discussion. I'm not sure how you'd plumb for it and I suspect it'll always lead to an authenticity cul-de-sac but there we are.

To be clear, in no sane universe would anyone aim this at Pharoah Sanders! I was more thinking about the kind of language I've heard in responses to the album.

This is clearly shaping up to be 2021's "the music's OK, but what I really like is sneering at the strawmen in my head who like it better, or like it for the wrong reasons, because I think they're of a different class than me" album.

This absolutely works for me as ambient music. Granted, it’s a scented candle - but it’s a small-batch artisan scented candle, with distinctively pungent top notes.

listening and unless you were inviting music nerds people would think this was weird dinner party music

This grew on me, once the central motif stopped sounding totally insipid. Appreciate the way the electronic elements in Movement 7 sound like they're coming from somewhere, acoustically, rather than just layered on top.

i was invited to my first dinner by another vaxxed person and put this on as the first "dinner party" music since COVID. it was fine! I have no idea why you think this wouldn't be okay dinner party music. It was! She liked it!

Imagine eating dinner

I'm just not going to listen to this I think, because we all know what my reaction will be and none of us need it. I am going to post about not listening to it though. Gotta have A Take

Listened to it again this morning (on headphones - cans not earbuds - at the laundromat). I think my favorite non-Pharoah part is in movement 7, when it sounds like the intro to the Orb’s “Towers of Dub”. There are some nice proggy synth parts before that, too. The final track is kinda pointless, though.

i love this album and i'm never talking to any of you about it again

why won't any of you invite me to your spiritual jazz dinner parties

You need the right hat. No hat, no dinner. No dinner, no dinner jazz.

This album is beautiful!

I'm finally getting to this and so far I really like it. If music exists in three dimensions, and the vertical is harmony, and the horizontal is melody or forward motion, I think of this one as more of the third dimension, more spatial/planar, more about depth. I feel like there's probably a simple word for what I mean and I'm being dumb not thinking about it. Time feels slowed down beyond normal human time and the way the sounds relate to each other in three dimensional space seems like the focus. To the extent there's forward motion, it's the forward motion of an object that has been gently pushed in zero gravity space and just continuing it's inertial movement.

IDG the weird captain-save-a-pharoah posts upthread and they don't seem worth engaging much further. If anything seems condescending to make all those assumptions.

just catching up and this is really good.

I'm so partial to both artists' oeuvre that I tried to damp down my expectations for this, it seemed almost too ambitious. Was very pleasantly surprised by the superb quality of the result.

a million miles from the genuinely radical and wildly inventive approaches to jazz & electronics from Black Top, Moor Mother, the Rolling Calf, Angel Bat Dawid et al...Love Cry by Albert Ayler...wait till the new Sons of Kemet drops in May...I think about other music from a similar universe I've enjoyed lately - Gigi Masin, Mary Lattimore, Ulla - and I think the obvious defecit this has is that it lacks personality

Would any of these alternatives be recommended for someone who isn't very fond of free jazz or noise?

Gigi Masin is neither (and an all time favorite)

Lattimore is soothing repetitive harp music, no jazz in sight. For the rest it kind of depends on what you do like - e.g. Angel Bat Dawid doesn't code as free/noisy to me but some releases are not without skronk.

Try Nala Sinephro’s 1.8. Harp + electronics + some subtle sax here and there. Very nice.

Ulla in general is mostly electronic, but her most recent record Limitless Frame has live (or live-sounding) instrumentation that pushes it into a more ECM type frame. It's good though I prefer her Tumbling Towards a Wall. (I did not like the Sanders/Floating Points record at all so ymmv).

Thanks to all! Starting with Tumbling Towards A Wall and will move on from there. Any specific recommendation from Gigi Masin?

For me, Wind and his side of Nouvelle Musiques de Chambre 2 are where it's at. With the Music for Memory comp as a useful supplement.

definitely get talk to the sea. the new one, calypso, is better than its reception at the time suggested, ime.

Agreed Talk To The Sea is best entry perhaps, however I had a friend write it off unfairly because they thought all the tracks would have vocals like "Snake Theory". His music is mostly instrumental.

Thanks to this thread for reminding me of that Ulla album, which I have on now.

Would any of these alternatives be recommended for someone who isn't very fond of free jazz or noise?

the Irreversible Entanglements album on International Anthem has a little bit of skronk but i find it hard to imagine it would be overbearing for anyone not into free jazz. It is one of my very favourite albums of 2021.

Maybe the Comet is Coming?

not sure how i feel about this album. it kind of sucks? it's pretty i guess. but it has no soul.

That's harsh. The orchestral strings and harp (harpsichord ?) are beautiful ambient jazz, I actually like how static and peaceful that motif is. I've heard less inspired saxophone from an 80-year old. It's a very long piece though, and it's only one.

i'm with crut. once i saw pharaoh fall asleep onstage at birdland and this has similar energy.

Yeah I do t see how this is at the top of everyone’s year end lists. If we’re talking about autumnal works by artists of the same era, last year’s Archie Shepp duo album with Jason Moran crushes this imo. Shepp’s singing of “Let My People Go” haunts me.

The ideas are interesting but the orchestral writing seems pretty crude and rudimentary to me, there's little interaction between the soloist and accompaniment, and I don't see enough in that single quartal keyboard loop to want to hear it for 45 minutes. I was hoping for a more satisfying conclusion/reconciliation in the final section. I said it elsewhere but imo Douglas Cuomo's Seven Limbs was a much better composition for jazz soloist vs acoustic classical ensemble.

I like both Pharoah Sanders and Floating Points a lot and I guess LSO is an orchestra but yeah crut otm

have to agree, doesn't really bring out the best in pharoah, FP or the orchestra

best thing I can say it may introduce new listeners to pharoah

honestly find a lot of floating points bores me, although it all sounds nice and I'm very sympathetic to his projects

I don't know that I'd go as far as best of the year, but it's very very good. I was actually underwhelmed at first, but it really grew on me. It was a much appreciated balm during a pretty turbulent year, I wonder if that might play into how highly rated this has been.

agreed across the board there, jon.

i don't have the formal music education that a lot of the folks putting heavy criticism towards this do, so maybe that's why it's lost on me. but still it seems like this is, if nothing else, a very pleasant and rewarding listen.

Might've said this already but I repeatedly listened to this album in my hammock on hot summer evenings in August/September--sun going down, cicadas blaring. It was bliss. Very intimate recording and patient arrangements that might strike some in the wrong headspace as 'boring'.

I'm with the last 3 posters here, I like it just fine and it has a pretty unique atmosphere imho

Same. In my experience hearing people talk about this record there seem to be a certain # people who look to Pharaoh exclusively for scorching atonal honkfests and are disappointed he doesnt bring that energy to this, but thats just one facet of a 50+ year career. Its not AOTY or even very challenging, and it probably did benefit from being released when was (iirc one poster upthread referred to "music that wont wake the baby" getting a covid-era boost from critics), but I dont think it sets a low bar to praise it for just being a really nice-sounding longform mood piece

I mean, yeah, my fave Pharoah piece is "Harvest Time" so that makes sense, I come to him for bliss not skronk

I'm an old dog who's learned some new jazz tricks recently and this album hits all my joy buttons. It's a wonderful melding of electronics, jazz and orchestra - I feel it like I feel "In A Silent Way". It feels effortless and doesn't have to do anything more than envelop me.

not sure how i feel about this album. it kind of sucks? it's pretty i guess. but it has no soul.

― aegis philbin (crüt), Saturday, January 15, 2022 8:24 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

absolutely agree, it's very whatever and strange to see people falling all over themselves about it

there seem to be a certain # people who look to Pharaoh exclusively for scorching atonal honkfests and are disappointed he doesnt bring that energy to this, but thats just one facet of a 50+ year career.

His playing is by far the best thing about this imo.

I liked this album but I don't think this cracked my top 25. Lovely to play on wax though.

I think I just found this whole record eminently forgettable. It's weird to be typing this as a person who is very fond of ambient music and jazz music, but given the Sinephro love and love for this, I'm starting to think I don't actually like what people are calling "ambient jazz"? I mean, I love Bohren und Der Club of Gore, but the Sinephro album is....so breezy as to be totally forgettable.

hm I was just about to send the Sinephro, which I like a lot, to a friend who really likes Bohren. I didn't care for the thread subject album though

One thing it is is an extended celebration of the mysterious beauty of the Dorian mode, which is strong enough to sustain interest for 46 minutes via that enchanting 7-note motif that repeats over and over.

that's also still my take here

Maybe they'll like it? What I like about Bohren is that they usually sound like a soundtrack to a fascinatingly complicated noir film. The Sinephro sounds like a somewhat sparse if talented jazz band rehearsing in a California park. That's nice, but it just doesn't leave much of an imprint on me.

Many times enthusiasm for certain albums are for extramusical reasons. Good marketing, exciting collaborations, great timing, recognizable names etc.

Your "forgettable" is also likely someone else's "accessible", especially for people not invested in the genre, and there is definitely a lot of excitement among those normally not dabbling in this sort of thing.

That makes sense!

You know what else is an enchanting 7-note Dorian motif?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krDxhnaKD7Q

otm

lol

fwiw I liked this record at first but ultimately find it unsatisfying. It sounds really nice, I just wish it went a little further than it does.

unperson otm back in March 2021:

I do think Sanders has been part of some projects where he's just been a punched-in element; a couple of his albums with Bill Laswell have that feel. But here he's absolutely the centerpiece. I really like his vocal bits as much as his horn playing.

I think it's getting critical raves because a lot of critics these days fall over for music that won't wake the baby. But this thing really is quite beautiful at times, and the production and mixing are phenomenal. As a headphone album, it's fantastic.

― but also fuck you (unperson)

lol @ "The Lick", someone should edit Promises to rearrange the motif into "The Lick"

the animus towards this album is really bizarre to me. at worst it's a pleasant soundbath but I think it's more than that.

but for fuck's sake even if it's not your thing, let's be glad a jazz legend is not only still above ground, but still playing and trying new things.

We can be glad about that and also express (pretty politely afaict) critical opinions about what is the most acclaimed album of 2021 according to this list: http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10765 .

And it IS my thing. Ambient production + modern string arrangement + modal improv = tell me where to sign, so it is frustrating and disappointing when the heavily praised result just seems half-baked imo.

yeah totally but there's a weird venhemence (not talking about you) that I see here, Twitter and other places

I guess I don't care anymore at all about what's overpraised though, why bother?

otm

the animus towards this album is really bizarre to me.

Not bizarre to me at all. The reason critical discourse feels like a pendulum is because it is exactly that, the backlash will always match the hype, it's the law of conservation of energy etc. Feels like I witness it on every thread here. Like watching the tides.

i feel like my criticism was pretty mild!!

For me it's just curious to think of this album as divisive. We probably all could benefit from some nuance between "half-baked" and "unspeakably gorgeous mysterious beauty of the Dorian mode". "Kind of sucks, it has no soul" sounds pretty dismissive though. I guess we will see all our contradictions resolve in perfect Hegelian-Marxist way with its placement in the Top 77 and interpret from there.

Hey, I gave more reasons why I felt it was half-baked. Fwiw, I have seen it on hardly any specialized jazz or classical lists (one that I know of).

I haven't even heard this yet

I'm one of the grumpy jazzers who doesn't like the record. It's beautifully recorded and expensive sounding, but feels inert due to the lack of interaction between the electronics, orchestra and soloist. Sanders comes out with some nice lines, but he doesn't have much to work with. Doesn't really go anywhere. String writing just sounds like a chocolate box pastiche of Alice Coltrane, with none of her intense beauty and strangeness.

My main beef has been with the marketing and the gushing praise. Particularly in the UK, where it seems like it was tailor made for the 6Music/Gilles Peterson/ageing clubber demographic. Floating Points has always been mediocre private school white man electronica - like his buddy Kieran Hebden it's all about diluting and polishing underground sounds for a middlebrow market. I'm also quite uncomfortable with the fetishisation of 50 yo spiritual jazz by collectors and DJs, particularly when there's little engagement with contemporary currents in jazz and improvised music, and Promises seems a product of that discourse. I think it came out of the same pot of funding that saw LCO work with Moor Mother, which hasn't been issued as a record yet, but is a much more interesting and challenging listen.

I'm guessing the forthcoming Alabaster De Plume album on International Anthem will be this year's Promises. Praised in certain quarters, but hated in others haha! To get my tuppence in, I find his wide-eyed crusty vibe really precious and the music is derivative and basic. While I find Promises pleasant but dull, Gold actively annoys me.

Professor Grumpy otm!

I was surprised how much I enjoyed how it doesn't go anywhere. And then i liked the Sinephro record even more. Am not a jazzer. Just dabble in jazz and ambient. Two great tastes that taste great together.

Thread reminds me of the time I was mad at lo fi study beats. They have their place.

damn, Stew's post is so terrible I think I'll give this record another chance today

Save us Moka!

imago at 6:52 9 Feb 22

I haven't even heard this yet

please don't


Stew's post is exactly what I'm talking about, like it's all about this perception that it's overpraised or intended for some bougie boogeyman middlebrow dickhickhead audience that probably in reality doesn't even exist and I think anyone who thinks Pharoah Sanders sat around thinking about the "6Music" audience (whatever the fuck that is) should get their head examined.

Also who cares if it's overpraised? why do you care?

Fwiw, I have seen it on hardly any specialized jazz or classical lists (one that I know of).

― The sensual shock (Sund4r), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 6:44 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

good thing these genres aren't full of pretentious gatekeepers who can't stand when something breaks out of their beloved little elitist fiefdom or has the audacity to engage musicians who aren't "real musicians" like floating points

what does Stanley Crouch think of this?

it's fine if you like this album, I was just sincerely disappointed when I heard it - I thought it would be better than it is.

"This is the kind of thing My Enemies In The Class War would like" is always the funniest angle a music critic can take.

Lol @ Floating Points with Pharoah Sanders and the London Symphony Orchestra featuring cover art by Julie Mehretu being an "anti-elitist" record.

I only listened to this album once and wasn’t a fan, even as a moderately big Pharoah fan…felt like the token jazz pick for people who don’t like jazz, a la Kamasi Washington a few years back. Guess I should play it again so I can feel more confident in my stance but first impression was they conjured up one specific sound and then wrote music around it that doesn’t really do anything particularly interesting.

Ok, I'm fully on team "why is *this* record a lightning rod for bad opinions?" now

I'm also quite uncomfortable with the fetishisation of 50 yo spiritual jazz by collectors and DJs, particularly when there's little engagement with contemporary currents in jazz and improvised music, and Promises seems a product of that discourse.

As pointed out several times in this thread over the last year, the fact that this was Pharoah's project & he sought out Floating Points, not the other way around, puts the lie to this angle. The people whose first instinct is to accuse Floating Points of "fetishizing" the poor helpless old spiritual jazz man are doing exactly what theyre complaining about.

FWIW the only reason I really think and talk about why I don't like this record is that I thought I was going to like it a lot and really wanted to like it.

Yeah, basically. The idea of this project + the praise for it set up high expectations.

i'm surprised how many strawmen / personal attacks are being brought up here — "jazz for people who don't like jazz," "beloved little elitist fiefdom" — you can dig the music or not, you don't have to conjure up a demographic to blame for it

The sensation of being gaslit by hype can be extremely hard to factor out of one's response to music so I have sympathy with those pouring extra salt on this given how it's been presented

yeah no shit louis

Lol @ Floating Points with Pharoah Sanders and the London Symphony Orchestra featuring cover art by Julie Mehretu being an "anti-elitist" record.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 8:14 AM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i didn't say it was anti-elitist, there are different kinds of elitists and you know the kind i was referring to

also it's not a strawman when stew and zacata are literally doing that IN THIS THREAD

otm lol I misread crut's post because I thought he was complaining about the strawmen in Stew's and zacata's posts

very much including myself here, but there I can't think of anyone on this borad who I find particularly persuasive or insightful when writing about music negatively. or maybe I just trust my own taste more than I used to

"This Third Stream orchestral jazz fusion record didn't get the same acclaim from jazz and classical critics that it did from pop critics only because the former are all pretentious gatekeepers" does seem like a strawman to me.

I'm just glad that, with this album, jazz as a genre has finally reached maturity, one might call it the "Sgt. Pepper's of jazz"

i know we're talking about pharoah sanders and jazz but as a side point i never really connected with what floating points is doing. keiren hebden is a demonstrably interesting artist though, and lumping them together is lazy. i don't have an opinion on this record.

I don't think there are many jazz "gatekeepers" left anymore, it's pretty standard in the jazz world that all kinds of crossovers are the norm.

tbf stew & zacata are each specifically saying in so many words that one of the main reasons they dont like because of the people they imagine like it: "I only listened to this album once... felt like the token jazz pick for people who don’t like jazz", "my main beef has been with the marketing and the gushing praise"... i'm trying to think of a more otm definition of 'gatekeeping' than that

"Stew's post is exactly what I'm talking about, like it's all about this perception that it's overpraised or intended for some bougie boogeyman middlebrow dickhickhead audience that probably in reality doesn't even exist and I think anyone who thinks Pharoah Sanders sat around thinking about the "6Music" audience (whatever the fuck that is) should get their head examined.

Also who cares if it's overpraised? why do you care?"

Well, I care that it got way more coverage than any number of far better jazz records that came out last year. Same as it ever was you might say, but it's a shame nonetheless.

I'm aware it was Pharoah's project and I'm not try to deny his agency. He's made some other mediocre records, so be it.

I don't think PS sat around thinking about a particular audience, but Luaka Bop's marketing department certainly did! Which is fine, it's their job. And obviously one shouldn't over-generalise, but it's no secret that BBC 6Music is intended for a particular demographic.

I wasn't accusing FP directly of fetishisation, just making an observation about a tendency within collector/DJ/reissue culture to overpraise rare records. And by extension certain artists who sprinkle a superficial bit of spiritual jazz on their not-particularly-interesting music to give it a bit of authenticity.

"good thing these genres aren't full of pretentious gatekeepers who can't stand when something breaks out of their beloved little elitist fiefdom or has the audacity to engage musicians who aren't "real musicians" like floating points"

Whole lot of projection going on there! I'd never accuse an electronic artist of not being a "real musician". I just have no time for middlebrow coffee table guff. Furthermore, I don't think anyone who's seen my work could accuse me of elitism or wanting to keep jazz a secret.

FWIW I really like some of the Kieran Hebden/Steve Reid material, as far as "middlebrow" electronic artists collabing with older jazz dudes.

I'm not imaging anything - I've seen the comments made by real people! Some of whom are close friends. I can get why people like it. But I also understand how it's been marketed.

"I Love Marketing"

xp
what is your work? genuine q, I have no idea what you do / who you are

I'm forgetting my full name isn't in the handle. Write for The Wire, Bandcamp, We Jazz among other things.

I have been perhaps a bit vociferous in my posts, but when it comes down to it, the real reason for my bad feelings is that I *like* Floating Points and I *LOVE* Pharaoh Sanders, yet I am consistently underwhelmed by this record. The praise for it only makes me feel weirder toward it, especially because it makes me feel the need to justify my opinion... which I don't need to do!

Hebden is more interesting than FP, but that's a low bar ;) He's done some ok stuff, but it never goes hard enough for me.

table otm even though he hates my children and all other children

yalta.jpg

I think it's swell that some of my friends who usually only have time for yelpy indie or glossy pop checked this out. They certainly wouldn't have if I was just recommending it myself, like most of the shit I like and don't have anyone to share enthusiasm with. Kudos to the marketing departments responsible. Accessible middlebrow coffee table guff is a great gateway drug. For example, think about all the kids diving down ambient music rabbit holes because of the Minecraft soundtrack? Maybe because of this they'll all discover those "better" genre albums soon. Many won't, but some will get hooked.

That's fair - we all need our gateways and I'm sure that Promises will have turned a few people onto Black Unity, Thembi et al.

It actually surprises me that pop/indie listeners find this accessible. It's an extended composition without that much in the way of hooks or grooves, even compared to a lot of other jazz or classical releases.

I really believe all the extramusical "cool" factors are sustaining their interest where otherwise you'd be correct.

It's the ambient thing innit?

It is, I think!

what does Stanley Crouch think of this?

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 5:59 AM

this is king of rhetorical questions on this topic.

Wow this is not the record I would have ever thought would kick off this kind of vitriol.

I like that this thread is basically the same 7 posts on a loop

It actually surprises me that pop/indie listeners find this accessible. It's an extended composition without that much in the way of hooks or grooves, even compared to a lot of other jazz or classical releases.

― The sensual shock (Sund4r), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:27 AM (twenty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I really believe all the extramusical "cool" factors are sustaining their interest where otherwise you'd be correct.

― Evan, Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:32 AM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think calm music has been much more popular in the last few years (for obvious reasons, i find that so with myself as well)

though it's jazz i think it recalls music for airports (the meditative repeated theme) more than a lot of jazz, so i'd say it fits with the general popularity of ambient

I like that this thread is basically the same 7 posts on a loop

― rob, Wednesday, February 9, 2022 10:50 AM (two minutes ago)

if only Dorian still posted here

Hebden is more interesting than FP, but that's a low bar ;) He's done some ok stuff, but it never goes hard enough for me.

― Composition 40b (Stew), Wednesday, February 9, 2022 3:16 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

fair point. i think the hardest he goes is with more club-focused edits and stuff under "percussions" and some other name i'm forgetting, those have a nice raw feel. but i like him because he has a great sense of what is a hook, which is probably not what you're looking for.

There's room for coffee table dad-jazz AND edgy new work, it's not like this record is taking someone else's spot. I feel like the words "London Symphony Orchestra" are adding a lot of weight (perceived prestige & expectations) too...I bet if it was just billed as a duo collab with Pharoah & Floating Points then people wouldn't be nearly so irate.

This doesn't sound like coffee table Dad-jazz to me, though. Honestly, Julian Lage and Avataar might be closer to that description and I preferred those. Anyway, I'm saving the real vitriol for when Boomkat-classical starts topping polls.

Boomkat-classical

the real grifters, yeah?

(jokes)

sund4r posting vmic!

So, is boomkat classical the giles peterson of the classical world then?

(um, what is vmic?)

very much in character

what's boomkat classical?

Borrowed the term from this thread: The "classical" music you buy from Boomkat (2010): a thread to discuss Sylvain Chauveau, Johann Johannsson, Peter Broderick, Olafur Arnalds and others

What I've heard of the Richter/Johansson/Hauschka kind of thing. 130701-classical an even purer distillation: http://130701.com/artists/

I'm guessing the forthcoming Alabaster De Plume album on International Anthem will be this year's Promises. Praised in certain quarters, but hated in others haha! To get my tuppence in, I find his wide-eyed crusty vibe really precious and the music is derivative and basic. While I find Promises pleasant but dull, Gold actively annoys me.

vocals are gonna limit that record's horizon with big fans of Instrumentals Vol 1

If you want unearned vitriol, the uncritical love of everything on the International Anthem label gets me (and there is plenty of good stuff on that label, for sure).

The Sound Of My Feet On This Earth Is A Song To Your Spirit is instrumental. x post

ben lamar gay and the new jeff parker rule on international anthem

oh cool just went to their site and they are doing a jamie branch's fly or die live album, was lucky enough to catch them this summer, one of the three shows i've attended (was outside) and really loved it

Yep

Branch at first didn’t appeal to me but the live album changed my mind. Waiting to see them at Big Ears.

I'm still not sold but haven't listened to the live album

i will say she's has a really engaging and quirky stage presence and i'm sure that helped

also i hadn't heard her before i saw the band

yeah Jamie Branch live presence is def part of the package

I like both Fly Or Die albums, but probably because I lack critical listening skills

International Anthem have put out some of my favourite records of the past few years (Jamie Branch, Ben LaMar Gay, Angel Bat Dawid & Irreversible Entanglements especially) but of all the UK acts they could have gone for... That said, it kinda makes sense. One of the first things they did was that Rob Jacobs album, which was kind of post-Animal Collective quirky singer-songwriter stuff that I couldn't get with. The DePlume reminds me a bit of that. The instrumental album was nice enough and I can totally get why it hit the spot for folks during the first lockdown, but his quirky vocals are an acquired taste. Genuine LOLs at the Nigel Tufnel comparison.

Yeah, IA have put out some absolutely amazing music but they are far from infallible. (I’m kind of an Angel Bat Dawid skeptic, and I’m not really sold on Ben LaMar Gay, either.)

Also, Fly Or Die totally rule live. I saw them the day of the Kyle Rittenhouse court travesty and she had the whole crowd chanting "Fuck white supremacy". Over the course of the gig she turned that anger into joy, with Chad Taylor doing incredible things on drums. Big Ears line up is great: several IA faves plus Andrew Cyrille, Ches Smith's totally great contemporary jazz meets Haitian voudon group We All Break... damn!

Ches Smith and Chad Taylor are two of my main guys on drums, love them

Chad Taylor is a fave of mine too.

https://imgflip.com/i/64p0ax

https://i.imgflip.com/64p0ax.jpg

damn, i'm impressed tbh!