Radiohead - Pablo Honey POLL

jeez how did you miss POLLblo Honey

Surprisingly, we haven't done this yet. I'd like to think that we're now at a point in time that people have calmed their tits regarding this band to the point where we can now discuss this record not for what it isn't (yeah, we all know that Radiohead made other albums after this) but for what it is, but for what it is - which is actually a good to very good alternative rock record played by a band that even at this stage were better musicians and had more talent than many in the oversaturated world of '90s alternative rock.

Anything other than 'Creep' is just edgelording.

I disagree. I've never had a problem with 'Creep', even when morons on the internet during the '90s/early '00s were all like "waaahhh, 'Creep' sucks because Thom Yorke doesn't like it and it's not their best song" when, even two albums in - let alone after OK Computer and Kid A, when such statements just looked daft - nobody in the universe ever thought it was their best song.

I haven't given much thought to what I'm going to vote for here, but at this stage only 'How Do You?' isn't in contention. I really like the rest of this record.

I love the fact that, right out of the gate on the very first song of their very first album, the band are already experimenting with meter shifts. As we all know, experimenting with meter and even the rhythmic possibilities within the confines of 4/4 has become a bit of a trademark of the band over the years.

Haven't heard is in over 20 years but remember the verse of How Do You? sounding like A Little Respect

The first line of each has the same rhythm (although not the same notes) in the topline, but that's pretty much where the similarities end.

I came to this album after buying and loving OK Computer and The Bends and remember feeling like every song on it was rudimentary and half-baked except for "Creep"; I don't think I've listened to it once in the last 15 years.

Blow Out

Honestly prefer this to The Bends, In Rainbows and A Moon Shaped Pool

There’s an acoustic version of blow out which makes it my favorite song in here. It ends with the radio host saying

“Now that was cool! Thanks you guys, that's Thom Yorke of Radiohead, joined by Posies' Jon Auer on drums, and Ken Stringfellow on guitar. And I guess don't be surprised any of you if you find like a bootleg of that..."

There’s also a Jonny and Thom only performance of “You” which I love.

I don’t care about “creep” at all nowadays but I’ll admit it made a strong impression when I heard it as a teen in the 90s.

There’s an acoustic version of blow out which makes it my favorite song in here. It ends with the radio host saying

“Now that was cool! Thanks you guys, that's Thom Yorke of Radiohead, joined by Posies' Jon Auer on drums, and Ken Stringfellow on guitar. And I guess don't be surprised any of you if you find like a bootleg of that..."

There’s also a Jonny and Thom only performance of “You” which I love.

I don’t care about “creep” at all nowadays but I’ll admit it made a strong impression when I heard it as a teen in the 90s.

Here’s “You” acoustic:

https://youtu.be/2-VAn_P6zMg

And blowout with the posies:

https://youtu.be/MpQO0bxXevc

I got into Radiohead in 1996 or thereabouts, when The Bends was their most recent album. My interest in the band pretty much stemmed from three things: seeing the videos to 'Just', 'High and Dry', 'Fake Plastic Trees' and particularly 'Street Spirit' regularly on MTV Europe, watching their performance of the title track on Later... With Jools Holland, and hearing the album played in full in the background of a record store I regularly frequented. So, I also came to Pablo Honey late, but not that late. I actually didn't hear 'Creep' until I'd heard the entirety of The Bends!

Even in 1996, Pablo Honey had a "reputation", but nothing compared to its reputation post-OK Computer after the popularity of the band went through the roof and negative opinions of the record became overblown. When I heard it for the first time, it sounded like what it is - the band indulging their American alternative rock influences (R.E.M., Pixies etc.) and honing their three guitar approach, and it didn't seem all that far away from The Bends at all, even though The Bends now has this reputation of being a huge leap forward. Maybe it terms of songwriting - certainly, the songwriting on The Bends is stronger, but stylistically - although there were some changes, albeit not particularly obvious ones - they didn't really change all that much.

(xxxxpost)

Blow Out

Honestly prefer this to The Bends, In Rainbows and A Moon Shaped Pool

― imago, Monday, June 3, 2019 7:14 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think it sounds fresher now because it's less played out than other Radiohead work. The Bends was the one that got me into the band, so I still retain a fondness for that record, and In Rainbows remains one of my favourites even though it's hard to believe it's now 12 years old. Pablo Honey is more likely to make it onto my stereo than A Moon Shaped Pool is.

Rather than the songwriting improving (which it did) I think the production is actually the factor that changed the game for them.

Yes, production was the other factor, particularly when they started exclusively working with Nigel Godrich who created an environment for the band where they'd be comfortable with experimenting more.

Having said that, the production teams they used on Pablo Honey and The Bends were no hacks. Paul Q. Kolderie and Sean Slade would go on to produce Live Through This, and John Leckie has been involved in an almost embarrassing number of great albums.

Best version of Creep is by Prince. The one Radiohead fought to keep on Youtube "as it's our song"

I remember Moby doing a hilariously terrible version of it at Glastonbury in the early '00s. I think the reason he did it was because Radiohead were also playing that year and didn't have it in their set? I haven't heard it since, but I remember terrible vocals and scratching. Gonna see if it's on Youtube...

https://youtu.be/6-VY75Fzu9c

oh dear lord

Christ, that was exactly how I remembered it.

1. The notes are important, don't guess at them
2. Learn the words
3. Learn the guitar part while you're at it
4. Why is there a turntable in this
5. Nothing about this rendition screams "repeated coda", just end it already

Moby way ahead of his time with that cover choice

When I saw it at the time I thought it was comical, like "surely Moby is taking the piss here..."

Hoo boy I hate this album. “High and Dry” was a leftover from the Pablo Honey sessions and it’s miles better than anything here.

Would you like to expand on why you hate this album?

The tunes aren’t there, for one. Of course I haven’t heard it in years, so maybe I’m totally wrong. I think I’ll give it a spin tomorrow and report back.

Moby's Creep is comical in the extreme

I was confused as to why he was headlining in the first place, because if I recall his most recent album was 18 and... yeah, it sold on the back of Play, but it wasn't what I'd call a blazing success.

The tunes aren’t there, for one.

Yeah, I disagree with this - a lot of these songs are quite catchy and memorable, I think.

Moby was well into his New Jersey phase. I know he sang on that unsuccessful Animal Rights album, but did he on Play anywhere, at all? Recasting himself as a traditional frontman/all-round entertainer seems especially daft these days

Imho creep was missing the violin section and the turntablism.

Listening to this again, for me this is one of those albums where side two is better than side one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vdiiUSuxFs

I'm indifferent to a lot of this record these days, but I still enjoy the three-song stretch of "How Do You"/"Stop Whispering"/"Thinking About You" way more than anything the band has done post-Kid A.

stop whispering is v cool

I like 'Stop Whispering' a lot, and feel that R.E.M. or U2 could have done a really neat cover of it. I love it when Thom emotes on this song. His vocals would only get better after this album, but even at this early stage he's still able to achieve a vocal that gives me goosebumps.

Moby was well into his New Jersey phase. I know he sang on that unsuccessful Animal Rights album, but did he on Play anywhere, at all?

South Side and Porcelain, at least

it's been so long since i heard any of this album. I traded bootlegs of shows by mail in the 90s - the Pablo Honey shows were always the most loose and fun (and screamy... Stop Whispering, holy crap)

Just had a play through. Got to be Creep. Of course. Should be mentioned here that they do play it sometimes now and seem to enjoy it.

It's not a regular fixture in their live set or anything, but in all honesty they've never really stopped playing it. I can recall performances during the OK Computer, Kid A/Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief and In Rainbows eras. I don't think they played it at all during The King of Limbs era, but they've certainly played it since then.

Also, as much as I like 'Creep', it would be kinda neat if there was some discussion regarding the other 11 songs on this album.

voting for "creep," love the part where the guitar goes chugga... chugga chugga

I remember how thrilling that part was at first, but over time its effect has diminished the more I've heard it. There's so many more great moments on this record, though. The way the album begins with those chiming arpeggios before Selway cuts in and 'You' just bursts into life, for one. Superb. 'Blow Out' is great moment after great moment. There's some genuinely beautiful guitar work on the likes of 'Vegetable' and 'Lurgee', and 'Ripcord' remains one of the bands most underrated tracks. Also, also, also, when 'I Can't' drops down to just Colin Greenwood's bass lick and then Selway cuts in announcing the end stretch of the track, it's quite thrilling.

'Prove Yourself' is a fine slab of '90s alternative rock, too. I love how the vocal melody ascends in the verses and particularly how intense the second verse feels in comparison to the first, the solo section, and that neat little guitar lick during the final chorus, and of course, Thom's cry of "WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?" at the end.

"Blow Out" by a mile.

"I'd like to think that we're now at a point in time that people have calmed their tits regarding this band"

"even when morons on the internet during the '90s/early '00s were all like "waaahhh,"

Why stuff like this?

I'm just afraid I'll give the wrong answer.

you belong

voting for "creep," love the part where the guitar goes chugga... chugga chugga

Yes!

"blow out" is as good as anything on the bends, and "stop whispering" isn't far behind.

Add a few reverbed sounds effects or an ondes martenot or something and 'lurgee' could be an ok computer b-side (cf. a reminder, melatonin).

Got to be Blow Out

This is a really good rock album, massively eclipsed by what was to come. But I think I rate about 80% of what's on it.

oh god, the scratching on that Moby cover. The only good thing is that his voice reminds me of Tiny Tim, which would be an actually perfect cover were he still alive.

Not the biggest fan of the Morose Warbles, but not a hater either. I see them as an artsier variation of that 90s angst for angst sake subset that I never could get behind fully.

Had a mix tape of my favorite songs from the first two albums that I enjoyed, and also remember liking 'Hail to the Thief' as an album length listen.

Voted "stop whispering"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1qKy4cMPUI

OK, after a listen to the spiffy 2CD Deluxe Edition I have to go with the consensus view of “crap debut, went on to greatness”. “How Do You” and “Pop Is Dead” are the two worst Radiohead songs of all-time. I do like the U.S. Version of “Stop Whispering” though. And as someone upthread said, it is nice to see them already fucking with strange time signatures in “You”.

"blow out" is as good as anything on the bends, and "stop whispering" isn't far behind.

― J. Sam, Tuesday, June 4, 2019 11:59 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yep, I couldn't agree more with this. I'd add 'Ripcord' and 'I Can't' to that list as well.

Add a few reverbed sounds effects or an ondes martenot or something and 'lurgee' could be an ok computer b-side (cf. a reminder, melatonin).

― The Pingularity (ledge), Tuesday, June 4, 2019 12:22 PM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They played 'Lurgee' on the Hail to the Thief tour if I remember, so the band obviously thought it was worth digging out to play ten years after the release of the album. Y'know how 'Lift' was supposed to be the great lost Radiohead song and a studio version of it has come out on the OK Computer reissue recently? Well, 'Lurgee' is better than that, IMO.

“How Do You” and “Pop Is Dead” are the two worst Radiohead songs of all-time.

In the case of 'Pop is Dead', it's not really relevant to the discussion as it's not on Pablo Honey to begin with, but I'll agree that neither of these songs are great. However, I'd argue there are worse songs than these two amongst the Pablo Honey b-sides. The other 11 songs on Pablo Honey are, of course, head and shoulders above these tracks.

Lurgee is great, and I was lucky to be at one of those hail to the thief shows where they played it. (I think they only played it once or twice on that tour?)

Is "How To You" generally hated by fans? I think it's a great Sex Pistols mock-up.

chorus of "anyone can play guitar" is terrible imo

thom also a distinctly less controlled singer here to the album's detriment ("vegetable")

Not listened to this for aeons, and am not going to now, but I'll let teenage angsty LBI pick here and he says without hesitation "Thinking about you".

last two songs on this feel like them entering the headspace for the bends, imo they're the best things here besides chugga chugga chugga

this record is not terrible but i don't think it's much more than fine

Is "How To You" generally hated by fans? I think it's a great Sex Pistols mock-up.

― Herman Woke (cryptosicko), Tuesday, June 4, 2019 7:19 PM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've seldom seen or heard anything positive written or said about it by either fan or critic. It's my least favourite track on the album, but even with that in mind I think some of the B-sides from this era are far worse!

The part of 'Vegetable' where Thom passionately sings "I'M NOOOOT A VEGETAAAABLE" is one of the high points of the record, IMO.

It's not.

Urgh, no.

i forgot that they opened their first album with a weird time signature song, guess the art rock signs were there all along

Lurgee is great, and I was lucky to be at one of those hail to the thief shows where they played it. (I think they only played it once or twice on that tour?)

― i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, June 4, 2019 7:13 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, it wasn't a regular fixture in the set, but they did play it a handful of times. There's some great sounding bootlegs of it floating around, and it fits in rather well with the rest of the set.

Does anybody have that photo of Britney Spears buying Pablo Honey?

Absolute mess of an album. Most of the songs poor to mediocre. As for the chorus of "Anyone Can Play Guitar": I think that's one of the *better* melodies on the album (it's the rest of the song that's terrible) - it (the chorus) reminds me of "Where I Find My Heaven" by Gigolo Aunts, though it's not as good as that of course. I remember borrowing the album back in 1993 and editing it down to a 6-song mini album to fill one side of a C60 cassette, but I can't imagine more than three songs actually being worth it. The one true gem on Pablo Honey is "Stop Whispering", which reminds me slightly of James's "How Was It For You?", though it's not as good as that of course.

Does anybody have that photo of Britney Spears buying Pablo Honey?

― Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 22:33 (twenty-two seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i forgot that they opened their first album with a weird time signature song, guess the art rock signs were there all along

― ciderpress, Tuesday, June 4, 2019 8:31 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yup, and it's yet another one of the tracks from this album that's been given a live airing post-Kid A.

Absolute mess of an album. Most of the songs poor to mediocre.

You're going to have to elaborate further on this.

I listened through Pablo Honey yesterday and my impression was better than the first time I listened to it so many years ago but the only things on the album that grabbed/interested me were "Creep", "Anyone Can Play Guitar", and the time signature of "You". Everything else was a big 🤷‍♂️

It's rather clear 'Pablo Honey' is a terribly mediocre debut album, at best (and is exactly as hit-and-miss as debut albums from bands who transitioned into something way better should be).

I listened through Pablo Honey yesterday and my impression was better than the first time I listened to it so many years ago but the only things on the album that grabbed/interested me were "Creep", "Anyone Can Play Guitar", and the time signature of "You". Everything else was a big 🤷‍♂️

― Arugula Raccoon (DJP), Tuesday, June 4, 2019 8:40 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah, that's fair enough. I know that you've never really been a big fan of this album, so I take it as a positive thing that it left you with a better impression this time around.

For me, the vocal melodies on 'Stop Whispering', 'Prove Yourself' and 'I Can't' are R.E.M. level beautiful. 'I Can't' actually feels to me like a bit of a forerunner to 'Black Star', actually.

In fact, 'I Can't' might just be the one that secures my vote, just for all the reasons I've said above: I think the vocal melody is beautiful, and I love the part where it drops down to Colin's bass before coming thundering back in. I would have chosen it as a single over 'Anyone Can Play Guitar' any day of the week.

Absolute mess of an album. Most of the songs poor to mediocre.

You're going to have to elaborate further on this.

i'm more of a pablo honey fan than most, but i think the burden of proof would fall on those arguing that the songs are NOT poor to mediocre, since that's been the consensus on it for at least 20 years now.

my friend's old band used to do a pretty good cover of You which made me like the original more, so I'd probably pick that one. not a massive Radiohead fan though. I have 3 of their albums but I never listen to them. possibly due to massive overexposure in the 90s by the same friend, although he mostly listened to OK Computer, not this one

Hmm. Nah, I'm not sure I agree with that given that I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why this album is supposed to be poor to mediocre. It feels to me that while there is a consensus surrounding this record, it's a consensus opinion founded on very little.

(x-post)

my friend's old band used to do a pretty good cover of You which made me like the original more, so I'd probably pick that one. not a massive Radiohead fan though. I have 3 of their albums but I never listen to them. possibly due to massive overexposure in the 90s by the same friend, although he mostly listened to OK Computer, not this one

― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:21 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Radiohead fans have always been a notoriously rabid bunch, some of them even astoundingly obnoxious in their fandom, although I feel that people are beginning to - thankfully - calm down regarding them in recent years, particularly after the last couple of albums.

I think Pablo Honey is pathologically hook-averse aside from "Creep", which is probably why everyone latched onto it.

By the time The Bends came out, the band's songwriting had moved on to a level where each song, for good or ill, was an earworm. They then took that sensibility and dragged it through all sorts of permutations, causing the subsequent albums to tower over the debut (at least up until In Rainbows, which I feel hits the same anonymous buttons as Pablo Honey and is where I get off the Radiohead train).

Projecting my experience as a listener, Pablo Honey feels like a band writing music for themselves; The Bends through Hail To The Thief feels like a band writing music for themselves and other people, and In Rainbows on goes back to being introverted just-for-themselves, only with the context/good will generated by the run of extroverted albums. (And I will repeat that this is me projecting my experience as a listener onto their albums, not my assumption of what they were trying to do.)

(I realize the idea of Amnesiac as an extroverted album may bemuse people but the fact that large swathes of it are very weird doesn't necessarily mean it's introverted)

the burden of proof

lol the burden of proof is never on turrican; he'll say some shit like 'well, it's immaculately produced' and then it's everyone else's responsibility to elaborate

i know this, but i just want everyone to understand that the full power of the legal system stands behind me

I'd never considered their albums on an introvert/extrovert scale, just a "difficulty" scale (with King of Limbs as the least listener-friendly; The Bends and In Rainbows as the most straightforwardly accessible). Of course the only "difficult" thing about Pablo is that it's half terrible.

I wish he was special xp

Terrible cover too.

Oh yeah, peak/nadir 90s graphic design

I think Pablo Honey is pathologically hook-averse aside from "Creep", which is probably why everyone latched onto it.

By the time The Bends came out, the band's songwriting had moved on to a level where each song, for good or ill, was an earworm. They then took that sensibility and dragged it through all sorts of permutations, causing the subsequent albums to tower over the debut (at least up until In Rainbows, which I feel hits the same anonymous buttons as Pablo Honey and is where I get off the Radiohead train).

I understand what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree with it. First of all, I think to say that Pablo Honey is "pathologically hook-averse", especially when comparing it to Radiohead's later work, is painfully harsh, particularly as Kid A was notoriously criticised for being willfully hookless but also because these songs do have hooks. One feature I've noticed about this album is that 'You', 'Thinking About You', 'Vegetable', 'Lurgee' and 'Blow Out' don't really have choruses, the hooks on those songs are in the verses and in the guitar work. It's the same deal with 'Ripcord', 'Prove Yourself' and 'I Can't', most of the action is happening in the verses. Sure, the chorus to 'Prove Yourself' isn't much, the ascending "PROVE YOUR-SELF", but the verse melody has far more content melodically so it isn't really an issue, and it still manages to be more melodic than, say, 'How to Disappear Completely', which also doesn't have much of a chorus.

I don't Radiohead's album sleeves have been pretty hit and miss, to be honest. OK Computer, Kid A, Amnesiac, In Rainbows and A Moon Shaped Pool, yes. Pablo Honey, The Bends, Hail to the Thief and The King of Limbs, no.

Of course the actual consensus opinion on the album, as a cursory glance at the album's Wikipedia page will show you, is that it's mediocre to good (as per both its contemporary and its retrospective reviews). I find much of it rather poor - hook-averse, definitely, also many songs take off from a decent idea and then they kind of peter out, all in all its a hackneyed indie rock album and sounded like it at the time even to my inexperienced ears.

I actually kind of hate that I've now spent time reacquainting myself with this album, as there are literally 100 good-to-great albums from 1993 alone I could have been spending time with.

xp: the verse melody (and its lyrics) to "Prove Yourself" is probably my absolute least favourite thing about this album, and the three-song stretch of Vegetable-Prove Yourself-I Can't is its worst. I don't know what "argument" I could possibly offer to convince someone who hears REM-level beauty here, and I don't think I'd want to.

"planet telex" is much better than this whole record

Obviously, I don't agree - particularly with your description of it being "hackneyed", which I find - alongside most criticisms I read/hear of this record - unnecessarily harsh and over the top. I think what you actually mean is that you can detect some of the artists that Radiohead were influenced by at this stage of this existence, but you could say the same about pretty much any Radiohead record. You're implying that the band don't have any distinguishing features of their own at this stage, and while of course this is still an early stage of their evolution, I don't agree - the likes of 'You' and 'Blow Out' really couldn't be anyone else, as far as I'm concerned. It's fair enough that the verse melody/lyrics to 'Prove Yourself' are your least favourite things about this album, but that in and of itself isn't really a valid criticism of the work.

(x-post)

(yeah, we all know that Radiohead made other albums after this)

"planet telex" is much better than this whole record

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, June 5, 2019 12:27 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Truth bomb

i don't really think the production on this record works either, sounds kinda papery and dimensionless, which... the songs kinda feel like first drafts *already*, it doesn't help. when the guitars start really taking over during the solo section of "prove yourself" i'm like yes! this is the record i want! and it just dissipates into another chorus. good chorus though

lmao at the idea of discussing this record in a vacuum

*steps into vacuum*

Yep, the lyrics on this album are still really bad in here

it's true!

I'd like to think that we're now at a point in time that people have calmed their tits regarding this band to the point where we can now discuss this record not for what it isn't but for what it is.

In hindsight, perhaps this was asking too much. Nobody is demanding you discuss this record in a vacuum, Brad, the point is that this record shouldn't be unfairly penalised as consequence of the records the band made after it. I agree that the production could have been a great deal better - this was touched upon above.

the only reason anyone is even thinking about this record in the 2k19 is because of the subsequent records the band made

Ripcord is a lot better than Creep duh
although Bones is better than Ripcord
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VRVOklCd2Y

"Creep" was much bigger than most buzz clips of its era and its corresponding album would probably be remembered as well as Lemonheads or Dinosaur Jr records from around the same time.

had they broken up after Pablo Honey

Yes, this is a take that I often hear: "it's a good record, but we wouldn't be talking about Radiohead now if it had been the only record the band had made", and it's a bit of a nonsense statement really, because we have absolutely no way of knowing that. Certainly, if their post-Pablo Honey work had never existed then nobody would be able to draw comparisons between this record and what came after, but this record would still exist and I'm fairly confident it would have been rediscovered by now if that had been the case.

Also, billstevejim OTM. Not only do I definitely prefer 'Ripcord' to 'Creep', but I'm also unconvinced that this record would have been forgotten about.

They would be about as renowned as Belly

Terrible cover too.

― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Tuesday, June 4, 2019 2:50 PM (forty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh yeah, peak/nadir 90s graphic design

― Simon H., Tuesday, June 4, 2019 2:54 PM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

every baby cover needs whiney's frank sobotka remix

For example it was the 2nd biggest song of the year on KROQ. A lot of people bought the album. Records like that don't just disappear.
http://www.radiohitlist.com/KROQ/KROQ-1993.htm

They would be about as renowned as Belly

― i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, June 4, 2019 10:50 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Possibly. There are far worse bands to be compared to, and in any case it wouldn't be an issue because we never would have known their subsequent work.

For example it was the 2nd biggest song of the year on KROQ. A lot of people bought the album. Records like that don't just disappear.

― billstevejim, Tuesday, June 4, 2019 10:53 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Exactly!

As said above, the production and mix is another problem - to me, its weirdly jarring and murky at the same time. Like, turn it up and it starts to grate, but turn it down and it's just dull.

I think what you actually mean is that you can detect some of the artists that Radiohead were influenced by at this stage of this existence

You're implying that the band don't have any distinguishing features of their own at this stage

And for the record: "I find X boring" or "X doesn't move me" are the *only* valid criticisms of any work of art, as opposed to "this is flawlessly written and immaculately produced", or as in this case, "a band that even at this stage were better musicians and had more talent than many in the oversaturated world of '90s alternative rock" - that's a Patrick Batemanesque parody of music criticism. (But to be fair you've explained above at a number of occasions which particular elements of which particular songs move you in what ways and that's all anyone can ask for. 'The burden of proof' is then indeed on others to describe as precisely why they *don't* like something, although that can be a lot harder.)

Most of the songs go into this 'rock jam' mode toward the end

Hmm. What you've described is something I consider to be a feature of this record rather than a bug, particularly in the case of 'Blow Out'!

When Yorke whines "I'm better off dead" on "Prove Yourself" there is no doubt this is Radiohead. It's also hilariously awful, maudlin teen angst to the point of satire. I don't buy it and it doesn't move me.

Yorke was still in his early 20's when this record was released, and that particular song may very well have been kicking around for a while before it was recorded. Anyway, this is an alternative rock record from 1993, you really shouldn't be surprised to find that teenagers were its target audience - once you get beyond a certain age, you're not meant to "buy it" and it's not meant to move you, but that's not the fault of the record. Personally, I don't relate to the lyrics of 'Prove Yourself' at all in 2019 - my fondness for the song is strictly musical - but I find it difficult to hold its lyrics against it when there quite possibly has been someone, somewhere at one point who was the right age for the song lyrically who did relate to it. Also, even though I'm long distanced from my teenage years, I haven't forgotten what they were like.

TS: Pablo Honey vs. Bush’s Sixteen Stone

(I was 20 when this album came out. I had spent the entire year before listening to the Seattle version of teen angst, and most of my actual teens dancing my legs down to the knees to The Smiths. I was definitely its target audience. But even within that context, or maybe particularly within that context, I thought it was a weak record and it fell flat.)

Aha. In that case, I think what you meant to say was back in your teens/early 20's, you thought the likes of Kurt Cobain "meant it", and you thought that since Radiohead were relative alternative rock latecomers that Thom Yorke didn't "mean it", for want of a better phrase. The only person who could tell you whether the sentiments in 'Prove Yourself' were genuine or not is Thom Yorke himself, and since he's gone on record as stating that pre-Kid A he tended to use his songwriting as a way of dealing with various emotional issues etc. I'm likely to think that, at the point he wrote those songs, he "meant it" ...

I've made similar errors in the past. For example, when Linkin Park first appeared I thought that Chester Bennington didn't mean it or wasn't genuine. Can't argue that I was wrong about that one.

let me guess - no, that's not what they meant to say

Not at all.

side poll:

which is better, pablo honey, or this video clip

WILD HELICOPTER RESCUE: Firefighters say a 74-year-old woman had to be flown off of Piestewa Peak this morning after she suffered an injury while hiking.

STORY: https://t.co/H4HavJnsgn pic.twitter.com/2FPQR0qiZ9

— FOX 10 Phoenix (@FOX10Phoenix) June 4, 2019

Not much of a contest.

Ah yes, typical behaviour for ILM.

having a pretty good time syncing up "ripcord" to that video

that would be by far their best pablo honey-era video!

honestly i think it pairs better with "blow out", especially if the instrumental breakdown is synced with the part where puke starts flying

Ah yes, typical behaviour for ILM.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:15 (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha! Well, yeah... that I couldn't possibly argue. The video to 'Pop is Dead' being some kind of nadir on that front.

(xx-post)

lmao thank god it's on vimeo https://vimeo.com/193801646

someone make a poll out of this video

Christ. I mean, where would you begin? The whole thing is a front-to-back embarrassment. I'd be willing to bet that Thom Yorke is far, far, far more embarrassed of that video than any song on this album.

somehow jonny manages to look really cool in that video. he is a machine

It’s blowing my mind how the “pop is dead” band went to make an album like OKC 4 years later.

I would like you all to know that Thom scripted every frame of that video himself. Storyboards and everything.

At first, they were really just making the videos they wanted to make. “Pop Is Dead” is literally a treatment that Thom wrote, down to every frame—we had the entire Radiohead fan club carrying him across the Oxford Downs in a glass coffin. I was doing a terrible job, but I wasn’t really concerned because we would just go off and make something. In the early ’90s, we probably thought those videos were all right, but looking back at them now, we all just want to die."

https://pitchfork.com/features/ok-computer-at-20/10036-this-is-what-you-get-an-oral-history-of-radioheads-karma-police-video/

"Stupid Car" is probably my favorite track of early-days Radiohead, at this point.

is there even a b side to this

I think what you mean to say is...

In the defence of Pop is Dead (said no one over), I think it has some cool guitar work by Jonny in it; a couple of riffs that almost sound proto-the-end-bit-of-Paranoid Anroid.

I've never thought about it that way before, but I very much hear what you're talking about. I think Greenwood's guitar playing is always worth listening to (I feel the same way about his brother's bass playing) but most of all I enjoy hearing how the three guitarists play off each other, and there's plenty of that in evidence on this album.

as overplayed as it is, Creep is really a good song!

Without going back and listening to this again, I'm going with my 1993 assessmen:
Creep is totally buzz bin worthy. The rest is somewhere between boring and actively bad (I'm remember being particularly annoyed by "anyone can play guitar").
I had lots of albums back then where I only really enjoyed one song (blind melon, spacehog, neds atomic dustbin), and this was one of them.

It sucks that your 1993 self somehow managed to overlook 'You', 'Stop Whispering', 'Ripcord', 'Lurgee' and 'Blow Out' ... perhaps you should give it another try!

Been thinking about you, your records are here
Your eyes are on my wall, your teeth are over there
But I'm still no one, and you're now a star
What do you care?
Been thinking about you, and there's no rest
Should I still love you, still see you in bed
But I'm playing with myself?
What do you care when the other men are far, far better?

thom doesn't sing that question mark

i never really got the jeff buckley comparison with thom. i've also never listened to this album which opens with a jeff buckley song, complete with the word 'fire' sung in a sexy growl and helium jim morrison screams

I've just realised that 'Vegetable' does a similar trick to 'Everything In Its Right Place' meter-wise: 1 x 4/4 + 1 x 2/4 + 1 x 4/4 = 10 beats.

they dedicated the bends to jeff iirc xp

I'm indifferent to a lot of this record these days, but I still enjoy the three-song stretch of "How Do You"/"Stop Whispering"/"Thinking About You" way more than anything the band has done post-Kid A.

― Herman Woke (cryptosicko), Monday, June 3, 2019 5:55 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i love post-kid A radiohead but agree that this three-song stretch is best. i'm voting for "stop whispering" because it is a good mumbled cover of Authority Song.

(yeah, we all know that John Mellencamp made other albums before this)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwVQRx1IGac

How 'bout this one? My mate and I would always do the "uhm. this is a song called...this is a song called Yes I Am" in a Thom Yorke voice before we practiced playing basically any song together.

realized the closest analogue to the REM-backed alt-Mellencamp of 'Stop Whispering' is any Clap Your Hands Say Yeah song, and that means that any Clap Your Hands Say Yeah song is my vote for best song on Pablo Honey

Nah, I disagree. 'Stop Whispering' is a good song that people have often falsely believed is shite, whereas Clap Your Hands Say Yeah are legitimately shite and always were.

I appreciate that this poll convinced me to finally listen to the whole album, and it's not all bad. but the Ripcord-Vegetable-Prove Yourself run hasn't gotten better with repetition. I would have voted 'blow out' if the ending wasn't so on the nose and bad.

Aeroplane do I mean what I mean?
Oh it's inevitable, inevitable, oh aeroplane
A thousand miles an hour
On politics and power
That she don't understand
No ripcord, no ripcord
No ripcord, no ripcord

thom yorke is canceled btw

To be fair, Yorke's lyrics have always been one of the lesser parts of the Radiohead experience, even on their most well-regarded works. It's always been a feature of the band that most have been willing to overlook. For example: "he used to do surgery for girls in the '80s/but gravity always wins" - great fake tits reference there, Thomas!

The ending section to 'Blow Out' is the best part, IMO!

always thought he was talking about someone's face

his lyrics are especially bad on this record, he actually developed a lyrical voice on the bends

I agree that he got better at it, but still...

xxp it's not terrible. it should probably stop at 3:40

the way it drags on and kinda fades out also doesn't read as a 'blow out'

his lyrics are still pretty inconsistent on The Bends but a big step up from Pablo Honey, and from OK Computer onwards his lyrics are generally good to great. not sure what there is complain about with them

yep

i agree

There's the occasional pearl, but just as often they're unremarkable (sometimes purposefully so) and sometimes a little silly when looked at cold.

you're gonna have to expand on that

Yorke's approach to writing lyrics on Kid A and Amnesiac is well documented and pretty much common knowledge - I don't have to expand on that at all, they're basically there to vaguely push buttons and not shake the tree*. Personally, I think "jumped into the river, what did I see/black clad angels swam with me" to be a really silly lyric when read cold off paper, basically sixth-form poetry nonsense, although I appreciate that the person who once wrote "These are the brake lights bruising the dark, making impressionistic arcs in time with your cigarette" might not see this.

*'Agadoo' - Black Lace.

ayo, you're a huge piece of shit for bringing a lyric i wrote into this

a huge piece of shit

please get your dumb ass banned and join your intellectual equals on the steve hoffman boards

Well, we are talking about the topic of lyrics here, and you did ask me to expand. What better way of understanding what a person sees as a yardstick for a great lyric than an example of what they've created themselves? By the way, being a critic and being unable to take it quite as well as you give it is not a good look.

what the fuck is wrong with you

that wasn't criticism, you've never written something that qualifies as "criticism" in your entire fucking life, that was a jibe at something i wrote

FUCK OFF TURRICAN

However you perceive it, the same thing applies.

(x-post)

If you feel that you’ve been misunderstood during this one particular incident, you are failing to remember the last trillion times you’ve been a fucking prick. You don’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore because everyone saw through your disingenuous bullshit the 10th time you puked it out

Only one way to get this pestilent off the board.

In retrospect, evangelizing Pablo Honey as a misunderstood masterpiece album probably should have been seen as an attempt to goad the mods into banning him

ending your thread with a protracted and unpleasant blow out is a bit on the nose, Turrican

LOL

Putting aside the fact that I could wax lyrical about how interloping guitars evoke a miasma of anguish like a piece of unwelcome correspondence puncturing the false comfort of the ante meridiam or how a lone brass line swells and splinters into chords like light from a sunrise bursting through a prism placed just beyond a crack in the curtains or how hi-hats flicker across the stereo field like a canine tongue on its own testicles, but I very much choose not to, would you guys like to put forward some examples of legitimately great lyrics you think that Yorke wrote?

first of all, i don't take requests from thom-yorke-didn't-write-his-own-lyrics truthers

In retrospect, evangelizing Pablo Honey as a misunderstood masterpiece album probably should have been seen as an attempt to goad the mods into banning him

― Arugula Raccoon (DJP), Thursday, June 6, 2019 6:09 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Who was evangelizing this album as a misunderstood masterpiece? Nobody was saying that, least of all me. I do think it's better than its reputation, though, and I felt we'd reached a point in time where it was worth discussing.

Putting aside the fact that I could wax lyrical about how interloping guitars evoke a miasma of anguish like a piece of unwelcome correspondence puncturing the false comfort of the ante meridiam or how a lone brass line swells and splinters into chords like light from a sunrise bursting through a prism placed just beyond a crack in the curtains or how hi-hats flicker across the stereo field like a canine tongue on its own testicles, but I very much choose not to, would you guys like to put forward some examples of legitimately great lyrics you think that Yorke wrote?

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, June 6, 2019 11:17 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

aiiight i'm out, enjoy your own personal music message board turrican

pablo honey is better than its reputation. now please be like pablo honey.

it's not terrible. it should probably stop at 3:40

― Cecil replies to your e-mails (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, June 6, 2019 5:11 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the way it drags on and kinda fades out also doesn't read as a 'blow out'

― Cecil replies to your e-mails (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, June 6, 2019 5:14 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Really? I'm not sure I couldn't imagine it any shorter, it would just feel wrong to me. The band themselves haven't really felt the need to chop any bits of it or rearrange it in a radically different way, so I'm assuming they feel the ending appropriate. I agree that the lengthy ending doesn't read as a 'blow out', but whoever said the title was a description of the contents?

i suppose it could be a reference to turning everything to stone. it's just not a very interesting bit for me. it's not beautiful or jarring. the particular sound is like something you'd get from turning on every effect in your built-in amplifier effects box. reverb and distortion kind of cancel each other.

as a closer, it also has this "we've given you everything we've got!" feel, which is a bit embarrassing because they just gave us Pablo Honey

would go over better with me as a set closer today, for sure

re: thom's lyrics - i think most lyrics suffer when taken out of their musical context. so i doubt i can grab an ok computer lyric that will wow you in isolation the same way i doubt i could serve you sesame seeds with a glass of sherry vinegar for lunch and wow you. ok computer on, thom's lyrics serve the songs well, and nothing is jarringly bad. you could take the sherry vinegar and sesame seeds and make something fantastic with them. some of these pablo honey lyrics are real turds, and you cannot dress a salad with a turd.

it is lunch time here

I'll admit that when Yorke sings "I'm playing with myself" on 'Thinking About You' it stands out in a glaringly unnecessary way, like a juggalo's fashion sense at a funeral, but I can't think of any other lyrical moments like that which interrupt the listening experience for me. I find the lyrics on this album, on the whole, just as easy to ignore as any other Radiohead album, and upon closer listen they mostly don't strike me as being any better or worse than Yorke's usual standard.

As lyricist:

Bernard Sumner >>>>>>>>> Thom Yorke

but where does Mellencamp fall in there?

fwiw, Genius and others (and my memory) have the Ripcord lyric as "that you don't understand". Where does Google pull lyrics from? That's the only place I'm seeing "she"

Bernard Sumner >>>>>>>>> everyone, this is settled ILM law.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

i almost didn't read this thread because radiohead but then i heard there was a flagworthy post and boy howdy

Yeah I haven't been following this thread but...I kinda agree with Turrican about the lyrics?

Thom's shallows have been my major obstacle in enjoying this band, although it's usually not a big deal because the music (and Jonny's melodic touch) is lyrical enough that the words are just icing. But generally I have a hard time with fragmentary post-Stipe rock lyrics unless I can find humor or pathos or a writerly sense of craft that elevates them above refrigerator magnet poetry. It usually sounds good enough and suits the music but I often get the feeling that he's just stringing phrases together hoping that a subject will appear

He might have a point about Radiohead lyrics but throwing in a jab at Brad's own writing was p uncalled for.

Weirdly, my partner put on this cassette yesterday. I voted for "Anyone Can Play Guitar".

my point was never "thom yorke is a good lyricist," it's that the lyrics are so all over the place on pablo honey that you can't identify a consistent personality behind the lyrics, and that isn't true of later radiohead records even if you think the lyrics are just weird cynical slogans he's stitching together or whatever

lyrics

anyway compare "ripcord" to any post-bends radiohead lyric for an object lesson in what i mean

Apologies all. I should've read the thread more closely before posting. Def didn't intend to feed the troll. Anyway BradNelson I agree 100% that his lyrics post-Pablo have a distinct and consistent personality, fwiw.

Hmm. I'm not sure I completely agree.

1. I agree that Yorke got better as a lyricist, but then I said as much above.
2. Even with that in mind, the lyrics on Pablo Honey are recongnisable as being written by Yorke as any of his lyrics are. He's certainly got a style, which has been there from the very beginning, it has just evolved as you would expect from someone who has been doing it over the course of several releases.
3. Brad's point may have never been that "Thom Yorke is a good lyricist", but he blatantly agreed with someone on that point above - it's there in black and white, scroll up and you'll see it.
4. People on here have been quoting/ripping apart/critiquing/whatever other people's lyrics since these forums began. Apparently this isn't out of order unless the lyrics in question were written by a pal or a music critic.
5. I am absolutely, categorically not a troll.

4. Mocking lyrics written by the person they happen to be debating with on ILM? I think you came up with a first there.

Yeah, you’re a fucking asshole. Assholes do what you did. Fucking assholes stick around and make disingenuous “no what about this, what about that, wah” comments instead of just owning what they obviously did

Anyway, ended up voting for 'I Can't' in the end - a few people have praised various songs from this album throughout the thread, but not that one.

Why don’t you apologize, douche

I've already gone into great detail of why I love that particular track, and I'd love to hear what the band these days would make of it in a live situation. The bit where it comes thundering back in for the ending section, I could imagine that absolutely soaring live if they chose to do it now.

Plus, going through the thread, it seems that although 'Creep' - somewhat boringly - will top the poll, so many people have mentioned so many other favourites from this record that it makes the stock stance of this record being "'Creep' with filler" out to be, well, nonsense actually.

(x-post)

Turrican is pretty much my least favorite poster and I like pretty much everyone. He doesn't actually want to talk about music with anyone, just bludgeon with his opinion. Reminds me of a less polite Geir.

^ None of this has anything to do with Pablo Honey, of course.

But, in terms of your chances of remaining on this board to talk about stuff like Thom Yorke's lyrics, it is relevant.

I don't recall you saying much, if anything, about this record on this thread, Tom. The poll's closing in a couple of hours, so now would be a good time to do it.

Indeed, a lot of things are fast running out of time, this poll and the poster Turrican on ILM are two of them.

Yes, but what about your thoughts on the record, Tom?

tom as your personal lawyer i advise you not to share any thoughts on the record in this setting

Turrican is pretty much my least favorite poster and I like pretty much everyone. He doesn't actually want to talk about music with anyone, just bludgeon with his opinion.

I was enjoying this thread then I went away for a few days and Turrican's gone too far and ruined it again

(x-post)

People on here have been quoting/ripping apart/critiquing/whatever other people's lyrics since these forums began. Apparently this isn't out of order unless the lyrics in question were written by a pal or a music critic.

See above.

Also, this being a music forum I'd like to think that any and all music/lyrics, regardless of who wrote it/made it, is on the table to be quoted/ripped apart/critiqued/whatever. Particularly if it's relevant to the discussion.

Finally, if I do end up getting banned from here for making an example of lyrics written by a music critic, then fuck me, that just says it all doesn't it? Coupled with the fact that ILM has seemed incapable of discussing this album with any degree of thought, plus the endless self-indulgent polls of everyone's favourite songs (yawn...) ... Forgive me if I'm past caring.

Anyway listening to PH again gave me a new 'song which comes into my head' on the way to visit family
There's a massive Morrisons depot on the way which signals we're sort of halfway there

Drive my car
Drive my car past the big Morrisons
Drive my carrrr
I wanna see wanna see wanna see the big Morrisons

Haha! Yeah, the entire lyric of 'Anyone Can Play Guitar' surely must rank as one of Thom's worst, although I always thought of the lyric as being kinda a send-up of rock cliche and the ridiculousness of aspiring to be a rock god.

"Pablo Honey", despite the presence of "Creep", one of their best known songs, represents a mediocre start to the career of the modern rock group Radiohead.

You obviously aren't past caring, because you're still here.

That's much better. I disagree, of course.

Do yourself a favour and go somewhere elese.

I've just finished listening to this album again, looking for something positive to say about 'How Do You?' and I really enjoy the way the three guitars gradually pile on top of each other during the intro. No, it's not the best use they'd make of their three guitar setup, but there's something thrilling about how the guitar sound gradually beefs up.

Also, this being a music forum I'd like to think that any and all music/lyrics, regardless of who wrote it/made it, is on the table to be quoted/ripped apart/critiqued/whatever. Particularly if it's relevant to the discussion.

This album is extremely unremarkable, tirrican, you should listen to better music

wait, no, listen to it again just to be sure. And please post your findings here

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Well, look at that. I'm not surprised at all that 'Creep' took it in the end, but look - every song on the album aside from two get a vote, and the ones that didn't aren't all that bad. So yeah, can't be that bad of an album.

Gee the one good song on the album won. Who would have thunk?

About 35 votes were not "Creep" and this is a larger vote spread than most would expect.

But that needn’t lead to the conclusion that it’s not a bad album. You could equally interpret the result as “four truly poor songs got 0-1 vote each (and one of them from the TS probably trying to be contrarian). The one good song won overwhelmingly, except that some people are so absolutely sick and tired of that one that they voted for one of the other mediocre ones instead. Poor to mediocre album.’

But it bears pointing out again that mine is the minority opinion there, and the idea itself that there is a consensus view that this is a bad album, or routinely thought of as ‘Creep plus filler’ is bogus. Contemporary and retrospective reviews have always overwhelmingly branded this an OK-to-good (3-3.5 stars, 7/10, ‘B’) album.

Still time for Erasure to sue

The real winner here is probably the number of FPs turrican got.

https://media.cbs17.com/nxs-wncntv-media-us-east-1/photo/2018/09/18/xWk95_1537274155392_56014414_ver1.0.gif

About 35 votes were not "Creep" and this is a larger vote spread than most would expect.

― billstevejim, Monday, June 10, 2019 4:05 AM (nine hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yup, exactly!

creep is a remarkable song and the rightful winner here. turrican is a dick.

Wow, Prove Yourself was robbed. Used to be my favourite. I Can't is very good too.

The only one I'm really not a fan of is Anyone Can Play Guitar

Surprised by all the hate for it. I always thought it was the most hooky, memorable song on here other than "Creep" (whose lyrics seem no less silly to me).

think it's just the lyrics, they kind of jut out in the same way as Pop Is Dead. Still, it's not awful. The song 'The Bends' is kind of a sequel to it in my mind.

'Faithless The Wonder Boy' is my favourite this-era Radiohead song

Hm, the "confusion"/"confusion" rhyme was a misstep but I actually find the lyrics kind of beautiful otherwise, at least in their musical context. They said more to me than the lyrics to "Creep", which struck me as juvenile even when I was 14-15. (I think the music makes it work despite this.)

Wow, Prove Yourself was robbed. Used to be my favourite. I Can't is very good too.

― frame casual (dog latin), Monday, June 10, 2019 2:06 PM(one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree, it's not a bad song at all!

the way thom sings along to the chorus guitar line like sad george benson might make it my least favorite radiohead song

like if scott stapp sang "can you TAKE me high-ER" over the buh-duh DEE duddle-UH guitar part in the chorus of the smash hit "higher" by creed. i mean he is singing the same notes as the guitar and everything.

and not singing during the rest of the chorus. that is the idea we are dealing with here.

He really wants to be Jim Morrison. He says so in the song.

Wait, I thought Sufjan was talking about "Prove Yourself"?

I voted for 'Everyone Can Play Guitar' (*ducks*).

Mainly for nostalgia reasons though - it was on an early 90's compilation called Loaded (sandwiched between the Auteurs 'Showgirl' and FNM's cover of Easy iirc) which was one of my entry points to discovering indie / alternative beyond Nirvana and whatever was on radio back when I was 12, and I wore the tape out in the absence of more pocket money to buy more music. In retrospect it is a dire lyric but great when you have no reference points to compare to.

I was trying to remember which compilation I first heard it on. Maybe that was it.

The "grow my hair/I want to be Jim Morrison" stuff is what everyone hates, then? I don't think it's genius or anything but I find it kind of cute/funny in its self-consciousness, especially the way "I am Jim Morrison" is followed by the deflating "I want to be, wannabe, wannabe Jim Morrison".

zig-a-zig ahhh

xxp my friend had that compilation when I was at school, I taped some songs off it, possibly including Anyone Can Play Guitar, but definitely including Start Choppin by Dinosaur Jr, having looked at the tracklisting

LOL, Willl, this is the compilation that got me into indie/alt music. Came free with Donkey Kong Country for the SNES. To this day, I've no idea what the music's got to do with Donkey Kong but I played it to death

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Go-Ape/release/1481263

and yes, Creep was on it

https://i.redd.it/w25zxt912u131.jpg

xxp I'd love to know the story of how that tracklist got approved :o

'We need to put together a CD to give away free with our new SNES game. Its ESRB rating is 'Universal' so its got to be suitable for all ages.
Any suggestions for suitable tunes?'

...

"Dealers keep dealin'
,Thieves keep thievin'
,Whores keep whorin'
,Junkies keep scorin'
,Trade is on the meat rack
,Strip joints full of hunchbacks
,Bitches keep bitchin'
,Clap just keeps a-itchin'"

'Yes that is perfect'

Also, Leaves & Sand is a totally bonkers tune to give away to 13 year olds.

Vegetable and Prove Yourself both totally robbed

Coming on with Blow Out, in 2018. First time they’d played it in ten years supposedly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s60nLTuz4k