C/D: Sonic Youth's GOO

(those 8-track demos and live versions that appeared on, er, boy I can't remember what EPs around the same time were alright though)

Also:

Dirty Boots!

Dirty Boots baybeeee!

production = piss poor duddy dud

pettibon cover art = classic

search: goo demos.

cover's ace too, although isn't it something to do
with myra hindley or did i dream that ?

If anyone hears it and feels disappointed just be glad you weren't a silly bastard like me and shelled out SIXTEEN FUCKING QUID for Thurston Moore's "Psychic Hearts", possibly the worst album I've ever heard. Any other Youth related project sounds ace to me now as a result.

sundar- wasn't DN remastered? i never got holf of it. if you have can you tell me what do you think of it. thanks.

again. I love daydream and sister and Goo is beautiful rec but I can't rank 'em really. i have seen SY live so I don't know how diff the songs on DN are.

I can't haven't been able to get into their last three albums at all and haven't even bothered with the new one, although I would check them out live if they ever decided to play some place in the midwest again, which they haven't forever.

The thing that is such a let down on later Sonic Youth is that their music sounds lethargic and doesn't have the same energy coming up from the drums. For a couple of years Steve Shelley was tapping into some Keith Moon freakbeatery that was awesome, now the drums just don't have that kind of drive.

kim always has done great vocals. i can't remmeber 'tunic' but she's always been exceptional as a rock n' roll singer.

I really like the 'video album' (or whatever they're called) that SY made for 'Goo'.

With all due respect, Julio, I sincerenly think you're mistaken, or at least when it comes to this track. Dig it out and listen again, then let's discuss. I think it's absolutely vile.

I reread Kim's Spin interview with L.L. Cool J, which inspired the song, and I'm still like, What did he do to deserve this? Their best vid was "Beauty Is in the Eye"...

I like chuck's bit on 'kool thing' too. they are now on a major label and they can get chuck D to guest on a track. I never got the 'down with the kids' thing at all nicole.

Its a good rec.

What's right with it?

In all seriousness, it's less an example of "singing" and more of a recitation. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that part of it, but Gordon's lifelessly deadpan delivery, coupled with what I consider to be a rather churlishly contrived narrative (ooh, look, I'm eulogizing soft-rock demi-goddess Karen Carpenter in a relatively shallow way...am I being ironic? You decide!) renders the whole thing embarassing and unlistenable.

when I listen to music I listen to sound. I find it very hard to concentrate on the lyrics (so I didn't know what it was abt).

''again. I love daydream and sister and Goo is beautiful rec but I can't rank 'em really. i have seen SY live so I don't know how diff the songs on DN are.''

that should be ''haven't'' seen SY live.

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time, Julio?

it's not ironic, i don't think: KC wz a good singer and hers wz a sad story

Inarguably, but I don't feel said story was presented in a necessarily sincere manner in "Tunic." I'm not suggesting that Kim Gordon was intentioally MOCKING Karen Carpenter, but to address this issue so blithely ("you look so underfed") and then augment the story with the most tired cliché in the book (that Karen Carpenter is in heaven and has made friends with fellow dead rock stars and formed a band) is beyond trite. That I find it irritatingly distasteful has less to do with any reverance for the Carpenters and more to do with my disgust at Sonic Youth's pretentiousness.

Goo is uneven, and parts seem forced. "Hey, we need a noise track! We're Sonic Youth, dammit!" (imagined origin of "Scooter + Jinx"). "Hey, we need a song where we scream and freak out! We're Sonic Youth, dammit!" (imagined origin of "Mildred Pierce"). Despite the throwaways, I think it turned out well. I remember thinking when it came out that it was all over for them - "Kool Thing" being the first single (hated it at first, can tolerate it now) and signing to Geffen. No, not quite...that would have to wait until Dirty.

''[Kim]
dreaming, dreaming of a girl like me
hey what are you waiting for - feeding, feeding me
I feel like I'm disappearing - getting smaller every day
but I look in the mirror - I'm bigger in every way

she said:
you aren't never going anywhere
you aren't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere

I'm in heaven now - I can see you Richard
goodbye Hollywood, goodbye downey - hello Janis
hello Dennis, Elvis - and all my brand new friends
I'm so glad you're all here with me, until the very end

dreaming, dreaming of how it's supposed to be
but now this tunic's spinning - around my arms and knees
I feel like I'm disappearing - getting smaller every day
but when I open my mouth to sing - I'm bigger in every way

she said:
you aren't never going anywhere
you aren't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere

hey mom! look I'm up here - I finally made it
I'm playing the drums again too
don't be sad - the band doesn't sound half bad
and I remember mom, what you said
you said honey - you look so under-fed

[background voices singing various covers]

[Kim]
another green salad, another ice tea
there's a tunic in the closet waiting just for me
I feel like I'm disappearing - getting smaller every day
but I look in your eyes - and I'm bigger in every way

she said:
you aren't never going anywhere
you aren't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere

goodbye Richard - gotta go now
I'm finally on my own - but Dan's got a gig
keep the love lights glowing - little girl's got the blues
I can still hear momma say: "honey don't let it go to your head"''

oh yeah, love "Tunic"... I feel there's more tribute than piss-take going on, too...

experimental jet set (aside from "bull in the heather") is so much more lamer than daydream nation.

Ok so you prob haven't got it but the main quibble that ppl have with it is that the production doesn't do the riffs any favours. It sounds fine to me though i haven't heard it all the way through for a long while (and only in sections).

Not lame: Teenage Riot, The Sprawl, Eric's Trip, Total Trash, Hey Joni, Candle, Trilogy (Pts. 1-3)

Since that makes up more than half of the album, I'd have to disagree.

i think my favourite sy album is dirty. i didn't realize how good it was initially (it was my first sy album) though i always loved it. but when i listened to murray street which is a very good effort next to dirty dirty happened to be so much more varied so much more dynamic so much more lively i couldn't believe it.

goo is a very fine record and i don't really get what the other alex is on about. the karen carpenter song isn't pure genius lyricwise but which sy song is? sy is not really about lyrics. they take as lyrics whatever they can get. sometimes it turns out to be funny sometimes it turns out rubbish. i couldn't care less.

and karen carpenter's voice is probably the most beautiful voice i have ever heard.

Cop-out argument.

"sy is not really about lyrics."

Strictlly your opinion.

alex- ''and then augment the story with the most tired cliché in the book (that Karen Carpenter is in heaven and has made friends with fellow dead rock stars and formed a band) is beyond trite.''

no alex its a tribute: its a lovely image that's being described (Ok so part opf my brain tells me its a tad corny but still). I don't think they treat KC badly.

Certainly. And, as before, I'm right and you're wrong. Hahahahaha

I saw it in the theater before it got withdrawn! Am I cool or old?

Confusion is Sex (1983) YES
Bad Moon Rising (1985) YES
Evol (1986) YES
Sister (1986) YES
Master=Dik (1987) YES
Daydream Nation (1988) YES
Goo (1990) YES
Dirty (1992) YES
Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star (1994) NO
Made in USA (1995) NO
Screaming Fields of Sonic Love (1995) YES
Washing Machine (1995) NO
Silver Session (For Jason Knuth) (1998) NO
A Thousand Leaves (1998) NO
Goodbye 20th Century (1999) YES
NYC Ghosts & Flowers (2000) NO
Murray Street (2002) YES

the first NO = i lost my job at the wire and wz v.poor and trying to write my book

On a brief listen i like GOO better than DIRTY and both of them way better than DDN and Sistah bettah still and Murray Street best of all. but y'know....

is that an official rec?

Goo is my second favorite SY album after Sister.. The first six tracks or so are incredible. It get a little less interesting towards the end.

Can you listen to "Tunic (Song for Karen)" without wincing?

Yes! Her delivery is perfect! She does sound a little like Will Ferrel doing Janet Reno, but "Don't be saaahd / The band doesn't sound half baad."

http://www.xsilence.net/news-239.htm#239

CD 1
01 Dirty Boots
02 Tunic (Song for Karen)
03 Mary-Christ
04 Kool Thing
05 Mote
06 My Friend Goo
07 Disappearer
08 Mildred Pierce
09 Cinderella's Big Score
10 Scooter and Jinx
11 Titanium Expose
12 Lee #2
13 That's All I Know (Right Now)
14 The Bedroom
15 Dr. Benway's House
16 Tuff Boyz

CD 2
01 Tunic
02 Number One (Disappearer)
03 Titanium Expose
04 Dirty Boots
05 Corky (Cinderella's Big Score)
06 My Friend Goo
07 Bookstore (Mote)
08 Animals (Mary-Christ)
09 DV 2 (Kool Thing)
10 Blowjob (Mildred Pierce)
11 Lee #2
12 I Know There's an Answer
13 Can Song
14 Isaac
15 Goo Interview Flexi

"What do you do when your mom is a skinhead..."

"YOU FUCK HER!"

"...you write a song about her."

Possibly the greatest conversation ever held at a UCI theater or venue.

Also, I mean, SHAKEYMO is on that track playing the key role, Ned!

Wait, was that him? I'm amazed!

i just had to come back and say that this has been making me laugh all night..

"it was all whirlwind, heat and flash. within a week we'd killed my parents and hit the road."

(I just picked up Goo deluxe tonight. This is fucking great. The 8-track version of the album slays. A nine-minute "Blowjob (Mildred Pierce)".)

(custos, i keed i keed)

..but I'm guessing they are the same ones, but remastered. Also, there are two "Lee #2"s. There's the 8-track version, and the studio version, which I'm guessing was slanted for a B-side, but never got used. Which makes sense as "Lee #2" is a complete departure.. very pleasant and poppy. It's another secret reason to get this.

Byron Coley's notes actually irritated me, especially the bit at the front that was more or less saying "IF YOU NEVER HEARD THE ROCK BEFORE YOUR EARS SUCK NYAH NYAH ROCKIST ROCKIST BTW PEEPS OK".

from this site
http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/new.html

Line-up:
Thurston - guitar
Kim - bass
Lee - guitar/vocals
Steve - drums/percussion
J. Mascis - backing vocals
w/ additional percussion by
nick sansano & don fleming

More annoyingly, I got a copy with fucked-up liners that repeat pages several times and leave others out. It's possibly intentional but definitely irritating.

Well, at least, this time, there seems to be more quotes from the band in his liner notes, which is what I was primarily interested in... Wasn't into his Deluxe Dirty liner notes... especially after giving Dirty a good listen, and confirming it sounded like a constipated Goo, but not in a good way.

Seconded...no such repetition in my booklet. Just irritation.

Listened to and/or owned a copy?
Daydream Nation
Whitey Album
Goo (actually listened to this quite a bit in some weird sado-masochistic ritual fashion)
Dirty
Experimental Jet-Set Trash and No Star
SYR1 / SYR3
Sonic Nurse

Have sampled songs here and there from other releases but have heard nothing to disprove my theory. Also saw them live a couple of times in the late 80s / early 90s.

* Sonic Youth (1982)
* Confusion Is Sex, Kill Yr Idols (1983)
* Bad Moon Rising, EVOL, Sister, Master-Dik 12", Ciccone Youth (1985-1988)
* Daydream Nation, Goo, Dirty (1988-1992)
* Experimental Jet Set, Trash, And No Star, Washing Machine, A Thousand Leaves (1994-1998)
* NYC Ghosts & Flowers, Murray Street, and Sonic Nurse (2000-2004)

(The SYR series is its own parallel universe, though not completely unconnected. I left off some other odds and ends here and there like Silver Sessions (for Jason Knuth) for brevity.)

I did this because my appreciation of each "phase" (as I broke it down here) sways up and down in varying degrees. Sometimes, I want to listen to Sonic Nurse.. other times, I just want to here "Inhuman" REALLY fucking loud.

This probably speaks very highly of the band, if my opinion of the albums wavers up and down all around the catalog, all the time. I can't think of too many other bands where I'll revisit and revise my opinion on a band's oeuvre like that.

Currently, I'm re-appreciating the 1994-1998 phase... I don't see this as a sliding scale from the previous one at all! In fact, while it may have been a departure from Dirty, Experimental, etc. is a pretty damn stellar album, better than Dirty by miles -- I say this now of course.

i think goo's a really spotty, flawed album. its got great moments and then really really horrible moments -- which is kind of what's ultimately great about it. from what ive read about the recording process, it seems like they just went hog crazy with the advance form DGC. they set up mics in all corners of the room, the mixes were lousy, they did what they could to salvage it.

I bought the vinyl version of the deluxe edition, largely because Goo was the only SY album I didn't have on vinyl, so I can't say if the CD sounds radically different than the original, but I didn't notice any major changes. The drums on "Dirty Boots" sounded a lot better, but that could also be due to the format. The live version of "The Bedroom", which I did have on vinyl prior to this, sounded better on the Dirty Boots EP, however.

That said, there's an interesting mini-essay by the guy that helped put together the deluxe edition, and all the sonic renovations they made, here: http://www.sonicyouthmedia.com/alt-main/goopop.html

I guess I should download those UC Irvine live show Mp3s while I can, if they are improved.

It's a testament to the writing on this album that the band, per the deluxe edition, probably could have released the songs in demo form and folks would have been cool with that. And SY likely would have "broken through" just as well.

This is the only SY album I really like. I've tried and tried with Daydream Nation and can never get further than a few songs in.

How many others have you tried?

FWIW I think "Washing Machine" is now the correct point of entry for this band.

Goo is a very good album tho.

i could never get into daydream nation either but i had a huge goo phase

goo my fav

Sister and Sonic Nurse are the correct entry points.

Also good albums

Goo and Rather Ripped are the two I will listen to front to back. I go in search of particular tracks on all the others.

I've dabbled in SY. I bought Rather Ripped when it came out and remember enjoying it. Every so often I have a rummage around in their back catalogue and try a random album. Often I'm put off by the fuzziness and lack of low-end, although I get the point, but black metal usually fills that frequency for me better than indie-noise. Now I come to think of it, my first intro to the band was Experimental, Jetset... which I got out the library when I was quite young and was confused by. I haven't heard Washing Machine or Sonic Nurse, but I hear they're good.

It's not my favorite anymore, but honestly EVOL was the entry point for a whole lot of people in the 80s, and I think it's probably a good place to start. My current favorite is NYC Ghosts and Flowers, so not saying anything about quality in hindsight, but the larger world (of music geeks) discovered Sonic Youth via EVOL and the Ciccone Youth single, and it only seems proper to respect that.

Love Evol, hate that Ciccone Youth thing.

My sonic youth love has always been dirty. Their punk album. The long tracks always make me think of the 60s and grateful dead etc. That's not what i like (about this band). Yes it was the first abum i ever heard by them. There is this theory about sy that you love the first album you heard the most..

Sister and Sonic Nurse are the correct entry points.

It was Dirty for me.

Dirty was the first I heard (and it blew me away). I still love a lot of it but I wouldn't rank it as my favourite. It actually struck me as a new kind of psych/prog rock when I first heard it as a teenager!

I've been working through the albums chronologically (obv with other things in between) since I started reading KG's book this week. Just hit play on Goo (90s cassette) now. Love "Dirty Boots" so much.

Something I've been thinking about is the extent to which the often-criticized out-of-tune singing might actually be necessary/appropriate over the intentionally detuned guitars, although I do think that their intonation as vocalists is less controlled/deliberate than their intonation as guitarists.

EVOL is the shit, dl. Creamy genderfucked lunacy. Absolute high point of "indie rock" imo

washing machine was my intro... what can i say it worked

Kind of funny how they start to just sound out of tune when you overdose on them for a week.

Anything SY (discounting the SYR) after 1986 is basically a refinement on EVOL (not an improvement on, imo although YMMV)

BMR points to EVOL but lacks the tunes n noise structure of the latter that would basically set them up for the next 20 years

i remember being 13 and confused as to whether i should be impressed or disgusted by what i heard. like, "this is COOL? this sounds kinda bad."

oh to be able to recover that teenaged feeling

30 years old today, was it ever polled?

My favorite Sonic Youth album.

Just listened to and half-watched the videos from the Corporate Ghost DVD. What stands out rn is that the sound of it is really good: naturalistic but really clear and full, with a satisfying crunch in the guitars. There's almost a lightness in the way the songs zip along tunefully and groovily. I don't entirely disagree with some of the criticisms of the lyrics of "Tunic" upthread.

https://www.spin.com/2020/06/dont-give-me-your-soul-the-oral-history-of-sonic-youths-goo/

First album of theirs that I ever listened to and loved as a 14-year-old crusty hardcore punk kid. Totally changed my life...

but when I listen to it now, there are only a few really good tracks on it...though I will say that it contains Lee's finest moment in the band, afaic, with "Mote."

It's the weakest of their mainstream trilogy

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2176/9085/products/Steely_Dan_2048x2048.jpg?v=1569111560

Listening for the first time in ages, and I think this might be as good as "Daydream Nation." The songs and arrangements are really strong imo and the hooks bigger, and underscoring both it starts with "Dirty Boots." And then goes right into "Tunic (Song for Karen)." And there are so many great twists and turns, like that brief major key(ish) break in "Cinderella's Big Score" or the megaphone-mic in "Mote" or the total shriek-and-noise explosion at the end of "Mildred Pierce" (which may be as abrasive as they get), or "Mary-Christ," which reminds me of "Tony's Theme" by the Pixies ...

Good and strong on tonight’s listen.

Seriously, I don’t know why this record hasn’t gotten as much play as others of theirs with me.

I think that when they come back in on the main riff sped up on "Titanium Expose" is a really exciting. I love that part.

I bought this CD when it came out. I doubt I listened to it a half dozen times.

Something about "Mildred Pierce" is like a perfectly tuned engine to me (and weirdly it's their only song in standard tuning). I think "Disappearer" is my overall favourite, followed closely by "Tunic".