Albums you own or used to own from artists that turned out to be awful people.

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With all the sex scandals going on in 2017: what artists do you regret supporting after finding out they were creeps, racists, assholes, trump supporters, criminals, pedophiles, drug dealers, killed a dog, etc...

Do you like them so much that you separate the art from the artists and enjoy their music despite their fuckups? Or is everything they ever did ruined?

Top of my mind: the ignition remix of r kelly was a classic for me until I found out all the fucked up shit he was in and I cant really listen to that song anymore.

Not in the same league of awful but I hate how much of an asshole Kanye West is and it affects my enjoyment of his music.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 12 November 2017 10:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Another one I can think of right now is Ariel Pink who I always considered interesting in style until reports of sexual abuse and overall hate towards women came out.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 12 November 2017 10:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Miles Davis is a case of someone whose music I love despite him being an insufferable prick and his very racist and terrible comments (like saying he would spend his last hypothetical living hour choking a white man)

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 12 November 2017 10:37 (one year ago) Permalink

an hour seems like a long time to spend choking someone, in practice I think he would have got bored after a few minutes

thirst trap your hare (DJ Mencap), Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:01 (one year ago) Permalink

I was going to make the effort of getting more Roy Harper beyond "Bullinamingvase" but all the scandal happened and it put me off. He eventually was found to be not guilty but by then the moment passed. It might come back, who knows..

Mark G, Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:03 (one year ago) Permalink

I was going to say none but, now I come to think of it, I'd just started listening to some Kim Fowley albums (or trying to) when the stories about his abuse of members of the Runaways began to break - I haven't listened to them since, though I suspect if they'd been any good I might have. I'd always known the guy was a talentless dick though and found the hero worship of him by a lot of people on the indie scene fairly nauseating.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Done with Genesis P Orridge after hearing that in Cosey's book she writes about him abusing animals, stopped me reading her book too.

MaresNest, Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:19 (one year ago) Permalink

I read that book, don't remember that bit, I remember him abusing Cosey though.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:22 (one year ago) Permalink

It was in a review somewhere, I've been wanting to read the book.

MaresNest, Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:23 (one year ago) Permalink

I think there is something about him being horrible to Cosey's cat or dog or something.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Art Sex Music you mean? Still on my stack of books to read, too.

Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:34 (one year ago) Permalink

xp jesus that excerpt

Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 12 November 2017 12:37 (one year ago) Permalink

uhhhh

imago, Sunday, 12 November 2017 13:11 (one year ago) Permalink

quite a few of the country blues guys I like from the 20s and 30s killed people and got up to other stuff which is pretty awful by most measures. I don't think that's part of the appeal, but there are definitely some songs that have a certain sort of poison in which is pretty intense.

I'm not sure if there are people who have become better/reflected on things when they couldn't make a living off their art, or if the attention an artist has gotten has fed into their destructive behaviour, but I don't see stopping listening to something as much of a corrective. I think these things are mostly about the effect on the listener. Also I think making art can be a good thing for Awful People to do

ogmor, Sunday, 12 November 2017 13:42 (one year ago) Permalink

I've got a couple of (good) Gaslamp Killer albums. I guess he hasn't been convicted yet.

chap, Sunday, 12 November 2017 13:43 (one year ago) Permalink

xp

Skip James comes to mind.

calzino, Sunday, 12 November 2017 13:58 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm not sure if there are people who have become better/reflected on things when they couldn't make a living off their art, or if the attention an artist has gotten has fed into their destructive behaviour, but I don't see stopping listening to something as much of a corrective. I think these things are mostly about the effect on the listener. Also I think making art can be a good thing for Awful People to do

Seems OTM to me

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 November 2017 15:55 (one year ago) Permalink

I can't see myself listening to that Ducktails l.p. I really liked again.

kraudive, Sunday, 12 November 2017 16:46 (one year ago) Permalink

I will listen to TG again. What's that about?

kraudive, Sunday, 12 November 2017 16:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Gen's whole thing is often nasty. He never hid it.

kraudive, Sunday, 12 November 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Another one which I used to love is the debut from Crystal Castles. Always suspected Ethan was awful but not to that degree. I’m still conflicted about it because some of their songs are really good.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:01 (one year ago) Permalink

several rock n roll artists liked underage girls a bit too much: Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis...

You might remember Chuck did prison time for having sex with a 14 year old and then for videotaping women in bathrooms in his restaurant. Seems people forget how much of a creep he was...
there’s an interesting NPR article about it:
https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/07/15/422964981/the-cruel-truth-about-rock-and-roll

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

I hate that I can reconcile drawing the line for some artists and not others. I guess it really depends on how much I liked them before I learned their stories, and that's a bullshit excuse.

I've never given a damn about R. Kelly. When people flip over Ignition (Remix), I roll my damn eyes.

But Bowie or Marvin Gaye or John Lennon or Jimmy Page? I fucking hate myself that I still freely listen to them all.

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:18 (one year ago) Permalink

re: Jerry Lee Lewis

This story about the death of his wife got waaaaay buried over the years, because I only learned about it a few months ago. He probably got away with an actual murder.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-strange-and-mysterious-death-of-mrs-jerry-lee-lewis-19840301

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:20 (one year ago) Permalink

What did Bowie do?

chap, Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:23 (one year ago) Permalink

What the fuck? how is that story not more famous?

I’ve never liked John Lennon myself, even as a kid most of the Lennon songs felt icky to me, his whole hippie schtick ‘all you need is love’ mantra never fooled me.

Jimmy Page also conflicts me because what he was doing was terrible, pretty much raping and abusing an underage girl. But I like LZ music too much.

Wait what did Bowie and Gaye do? I’m not sure I want to know... this thread was a bad idea

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:28 (one year ago) Permalink

I’ve never liked John Lennon myself, even as a kid most of the Lennon songs felt icky to me, his whole hippie schtick ‘all you need is love’ mantra never fooled me.

That his better songs are generally his more abrasive is no coincidence.

chap, Sunday, 12 November 2017 17:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Phil Spector, definitely. He's universally hailed as one of the greatest producers of all time, but he actually killed someone! Plus he has a large history of being an abusive prick who pulls out a gun when women refuse his advances

But I still really like everything on Back to Mono? Idk, maybe it's mitigated by the fact that he was just the guy twiddling knobs in the background and never the star of the show like Ronnie Spector

josh az (2011nostalgia), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Actually not everything on it - forgot about "he hit me," that ones inexcusable

josh az (2011nostalgia), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:05 (one year ago) Permalink

lol

thread idea is kind of silly but lets run with it

whats more interesting is how many ppl refuse to believe that the artists they listen to did do contentiously awful/bad things

eg michael jackson and like probably over 50% of artists/musicians (if were counting sleeping with groupies and doing drugs)

i n f i n i t y (∞), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:11 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah was going to mention Spector. There are songs like John Lennon’s Imagine which would have been huge with or without him and in the case of Let It Be he actually worsened the songs imho.

Not sure if the Ronettes would have been as huge without his touch though, he also wrote ‘be my baby’ iirc and that one’s their biggest hit.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:15 (one year ago) Permalink

i remember reading in an interview (possibly playboy?) that bowie gave mccartney or lennon head or something at like age 12 which would make either of the other two older than 16

i n f i n i t y (∞), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:18 (one year ago) Permalink

also laurel canyon scene in the 60s/70s was filled with dirty rumours

i n f i n i t y (∞), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:19 (one year ago) Permalink

(X-post)

What? Sounds crazy.

Luna Schlosser, Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Sounds like bullshit to me.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:29 (one year ago) Permalink

of course it is ffs

Number None, Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Anyhow, I'm sure the correct answer to the thread title is "pretty much the majority of them"

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:31 (one year ago) Permalink

i remember reading in an interview (possibly playboy?) that bowie gave mccartney or lennon head or something at like age 12 which would make either of the other two older than 16

I understand ILM is not the New York Times, but maybe we need a bit more substantiation before making highly inflammable accusations that name names, based on an interview you "remember reading."

kornrulez6969, Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:33 (one year ago) Permalink

okay prince of wales

i n f i n i t y (∞), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Any reason for 12 year old Brixton schoolboy, David Jones, to be hanging about in Liverpool in the late 50s?

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:45 (one year ago) Permalink

He maybe waiting for his man.

Mark G, Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Waiting for his nan, more like.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

My cousn’s good friend’s sister’s aunt said she read somewhere that all the Bowie stuff happened in Hamburg. So it’s settled.

kornrulez6969, Sunday, 12 November 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

I have two triple vinyl albums by Swans which set me back a fair whack and which I used to enjoy a lot and even still put on on occasion. but each time I do, i just can't separate the music from the man following the assault accusations against Michael Gira. As people have said upthread, there's a hypocrisy at work here, since I'll happily listen to music by a whole swathe of terrible people

Fox Mulder, FYI (dog latin), Sunday, 12 November 2017 19:30 (one year ago) Permalink

i love his records dearly but i have no doubt at all that john martyn was a deeply horrible man

plp will eat itself (NickB), Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

led zeppelin

Week of Wonders (Ross), Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:05 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm still listening to Gary Glitter, to be honest, though the Glitter Band albums were much better.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:15 (one year ago) Permalink

(if were counting sleeping with groupies and doing drugs)

― i n f i n i t y (∞), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:11 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you are such a fucking moron that you'd literally place these two things on a parallel?

imago, Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

It's been interesting trying to quantify how greatly the reports of Jesse Lacey's (of the band Brand New) misbehavior has affected my ability to enjoy his music. The results have been ...intermittent

ur-oik (rip van wanko), Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:26 (one year ago) Permalink

how does Lou Reed fit into all this

clouds (peanutbuttereverysingleday), Sunday, 12 November 2017 20:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Like a sack of rancid shit. He's up there with Lennon re violence towards women.

Zings Can Only Get Better (snoball), Sunday, 12 November 2017 21:49 (one year ago) Permalink

hey i had this name first xp

clouds, Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:09 (one year ago) Permalink

I had already bought a ticket to see Ariel Pink before the reports about the first show on the tour where he straddled his partner Charles on stage emerged. I knew he had made a lot of regressive comments in the press, and to some extent misogyny is written into the music anyway. But the stories about that show gave me some pause. I still ended up going, and while I was glad there was no physical abuse, real or feigned, taking place on stage, I also found it kind of a lackluster affair. He'd been more engaging at earlier shows where his behavior was more narcissistic (stage diving, drinking a lot, insulting the audience through a veil of echo on his microphone). I sort of WANT that from him. The dynamic of attraction and repulsion to what he does is part of what makes it compelling.

I was thinking about this too after seeing Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVie a couple of weeks ago. At the show Buckingham talked a lot about a "karmic circle" that reunited him and McVie and thanked the audience for sharing in it, more than once. But the moment that seemed more truthful was when McVie mentioned sending her song ideas to him, with Buckingham basically altering them totally. He was vaguely defensive in his response before roaring that, as he does, "I had my way." This is all performance too (it was a very good performance!), but Buckingham was clearly playing on a publicly aired history of abusive, or at least aggressive, behavior.

For a more direct answer to the thread question: I actually did sell my handful of Flaming Lips albums some time after Erykah Badu complained that they'd exploited her nude images in a video, and Wayne Coyne responded with total flippancy. I can't remember if this was the main reason now, but over time the "niceness" of stuff like Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots had grown to seem disingenuous.

eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:13 (one year ago) Permalink

michael gira

Week of Wonders (Ross), Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:16 (one year ago) Permalink

a low cloud in this thread :p

calzino, Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:29 (one year ago) Permalink

I think you have to assume that just about all mid-70s rock stars were having sex with underage groupies and were therefore committing statutory rape

Zelda Zonk, Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:38 (one year ago) Permalink

JFC, I'd totally missed that there was a sequel to Mystikal's story

http://www.xxlmag.com/video/2017/09/mystikal-indicted-grand-jury-charges-rape-kidnapping/

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:39 (one year ago) Permalink

I think you have to assume that just about all mid-70s rock stars were having sex with underage groupies and were therefore committing statutory rape

Yes, and before the mid-70s too.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:45 (one year ago) Permalink

This thread is quite timely. 70s punk band Crisis are playing reunion gigs at the moment. At the time they were around they were hard left, but the various members went on to bands like Death in June, Sol Invictus and Above the Ruins, the last one were a full on Nazi band on compilations with Skrewdriver. I'm not sure who is actually in the current line up but I don't think I can in good conscience go and see them. I do listen to some of the artists in this thread and other completely reprehensible people who made music I like but I usually justify this by just illegally downloading it so I'm not financially supporting them. This often feels like a cop out though.

Colonel Poo, Sunday, 12 November 2017 23:48 (one year ago) Permalink

One of the rationalizations I've read from numerous people is that if you're listening to, say, James Brown, he's not openly singing about punching women and that makes it easier to commit to the separation of art from artist. In R. Kelly's case, every time he mentions sex, you know he's talking about a 15 year old.

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Monday, 13 November 2017 00:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Here's a more obscure one: I used to have an album by the '90s Chicago post-punk band Trenchmouth, probably best known for having a pre-SNL Fred Armisen on drums. A few years ago one of their guitarists, then a college professor, turned out to be a pedophile. I recommend not reading any details of the case beyond what is contained in that article.

JRN, Monday, 13 November 2017 01:54 (one year ago) Permalink

For me the big one that fits the bill here is Warren Zevon. After reading I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead, the bio written by his ex wife, I️ find it hard to listen to his music anymore. He was such a horrible, mean, irredeemable prick. Close to evil as a drunk, and nearly as bad when he got sober.

kornrulez6969, Monday, 13 November 2017 02:36 (one year ago) Permalink

wonder if his #1 fan Dave Letterman knew about all that

ur-oik (rip van wanko), Monday, 13 November 2017 02:46 (one year ago) Permalink

(if were counting sleeping with groupies and doing drugs)

― i n f i n i t y (∞), Sunday, 12 November 2017 18:11 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you are such a fucking moron that you'd literally place these two things on a parallel?

― imago, Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:22 PM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol i only allow your comments because you suck my socks' dicks fella

i n f i n i t y (∞), Monday, 13 November 2017 02:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh shit, I just remembered that Greg Graffin (Bad Religion) got busted after jerking it in video chatrooms for teenage girls over a period of years. Google tells me that was in 2005. Didn't think it was that long ago.

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Monday, 13 November 2017 06:11 (one year ago) Permalink

70s punk band Crisis are playing reunion gigs at the moment. At the time they were around they were hard left, but the various members went on to bands like Death in June, Sol Invictus and Above the Ruins, the last one were a full on Nazi band on compilations with Skrewdriver. I'm not sure who is actually in the current line up but I don't think I can in good conscience go and see them.

This line-up of Crisis has just one original member, Tony Wakeford who used to be in the NF and went on to play in DIJ, Sol Invictus and Above the Ruins. Not a very nice man and most of his musical output is pretty sub-par as well. I As for DIJ, I'm still a big fan of their earlier material but haven't listened to his later stuff in years.

heaven parker (anagram), Monday, 13 November 2017 08:05 (one year ago) Permalink

What a shame ... Trenchmouth was a way better band than lost prophets

sarahell, Monday, 13 November 2017 10:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Noir Desir is probably the most glaring example.

Bertrand Cantat managed to have a top ten single in France last month despite having been convicted of murdering his girlfriend and, post-prison, by most accounts, driving his wife to kill herself.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Monday, 13 November 2017 11:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow, I was just thinking about starting a post like this:
- 2017 Billy Corgan makes it pretty impossible for me to revisit Gish/Siamese Dream no matter how much I used to love those albums
- That whole fracas with the War on Drugs made Mark Kozalek seem like such an asshole, that I no longer have any inclination to listen to Sun Kill Moon/Red House Painters
- Even though they kicked that Ducktails guy out of the band, I still feel a little conflicted about listening to the first few Real Estate albums

enochroot, Monday, 13 November 2017 13:02 (one year ago) Permalink

That whole fracas with the War on Drugs made Mark Kozalek seem like such an asshole

far from the worst of Koz iirc

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 13:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Koz is kind of a sleep around whore or used to be, and a bit of a jerk personally, but I've never once heard of him being abusive

"how does Lou Reed fit into all this

― clouds (peanutbuttereverysingleday), Sunday, November 12, 2017 8:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Like a sack of rancid shit. He's up there with Lennon re violence towards women."

it's really hard to square this with the fact that he was then married to laurie anderson for years and years. LIke, did they ever discuss this? he must have been remorseful? I dunno.

akm, Monday, 13 November 2017 14:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Each new Vybz Kartel skeeves me out a little more, even as it's often anodyne dancehall (though it's frequently really good.) I can accept that he's an awful person while being vital to the genre, but that there's some whole shadow system allowing him to record from prison and monetizing it seems darker still.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Monday, 13 November 2017 14:24 (one year ago) Permalink

(xp) He was abusive to his first rife, I doubt he was proud of himself over it.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Monday, 13 November 2017 14:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Wife not rife!

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Monday, 13 November 2017 14:27 (one year ago) Permalink

x-p
with lou reed you should not forget that he had electroshock therapy as a teenager. probably that did not help.

somehow i find this thread - which reminds me of a pillory - quite partial.

usually the reality is much more complex than the accusations and wrongdoings which find it into the press.

i agree with ShariVari the most striking example is definitely Bertrand Cantat. i cannot listen to noir désir anymore, i was never a fan though.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Monday, 13 November 2017 14:45 (one year ago) Permalink

Cantat's first album as Détroit, with Pascal Humbert, features several thinly-veiled references to Marie Trintignant (whom he murdered), especially on 'Ange de désolation'. The results are far more disturbing than anything by Varg Vikernes.

pomenitul, Monday, 13 November 2017 15:13 (one year ago) Permalink

As a general rule, though, I have no trouble dissociating the music from the musician. There are a few exceptions, such as openly fascist lyrics in a language I can understand (Peste Noire is the worst offender).

pomenitul, Monday, 13 November 2017 15:15 (one year ago) Permalink

I used to own a Ted Nugent album.

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Monday, 13 November 2017 15:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Richard Wagner

clouds, Monday, 13 November 2017 15:50 (one year ago) Permalink

- 2017 Billy Corgan makes it pretty impossible for me to revisit Gish/Siamese Dream no matter how much I used to love those albums

What is this in reference to? He's an insufferable egomaniac and conspiracy theorist, sure, but that's a pretty low bar imo.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 15:56 (one year ago) Permalink

and he seems to have rehabilitated somewhat of late

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 15:56 (one year ago) Permalink


- 2017 Billy Corgan makes it pretty impossible for me to revisit Gish/Siamese Dream no matter how much I used to love those albums

What is this in reference to? He's an insufferable egomaniac and conspiracy theorist, sure, but that's a pretty low bar imo.

― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, November 13, 2017 10:56 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Once he appeared on that Alex Jones show, I think I was off the bus for good. I know that doesn't make him a Harvey Weinstein level creep, but I still find in nearly impossible to enjoy to the early SP albums without 2017 Billy Corgan ruining the experience for me. It reminds me of that thread from a while back that posed questions like "What if Billy Corgan shot himself in 1992 and Kurt Cobain lived to appear on Infowars in 2017?"

enochroot, Monday, 13 November 2017 16:20 (one year ago) Permalink

trying to think what women might fall into this category, but no, i can only think of shitbag men. dozens of them.

plp will eat itself (NickB), Monday, 13 November 2017 16:22 (one year ago) Permalink

moe tucker maybe, but that's hardly even on the same scale of awfulness

plp will eat itself (NickB), Monday, 13 November 2017 16:23 (one year ago) Permalink

no.

Mark G, Monday, 13 November 2017 16:25 (one year ago) Permalink

people are giving lou reed way too much of a pass. the dude beat his first wife

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/oct/13/lou-reed-new-biography-domestic-violence-abuse-women

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 13 November 2017 16:26 (one year ago) Permalink

nico

Karl Malone, Monday, 13 November 2017 16:31 (one year ago) Permalink

trying to think what women might fall into this category, but no, i can only think of shitbag men. dozens of them.

― plp will eat itself (NickB), Monday, November 13, 2017 11:22 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not music, but Marion Zimmer Bradley books are going to be hard to read

President Keyes, Monday, 13 November 2017 16:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Also by virtually all accounts acted terribly towards, oh, everyone, for, oh, a lifetime xxp - he just wasn't a good person

treeship: a year in the life (wins), Monday, 13 November 2017 16:35 (one year ago) Permalink

Marion Zimmer Bradley is a very good example, ugh

omar little, Monday, 13 November 2017 16:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Nico another v good example - I haven't listened to anything by her in forever but there's stuff I absolutely love, & I never really associate what I'm playing with the piece of shit who committed an irl hate crime

treeship: a year in the life (wins), Monday, 13 November 2017 16:44 (one year ago) Permalink

trying to think what women might fall into this category,

Brigette Bardot, possibly.

Claudine Longet probably murdered Spider Sabich.

Still listen to both, though.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

what if these people repent/regret their awful deeds?

like bowie used to be a fascist but i assume by the time of his death he no longer was one

i n f i n i t y (∞), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:15 (one year ago) Permalink

claudine's records are cool. spider probably had it coming. as long as she didn't murder beloved sweater-wearer andy williams, we're good.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:16 (one year ago) Permalink

i can't listen to john martyn records after reading what beverley wrote about him. ugh.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Bowie was a dress up fascist on coke for like five minutes
Lori Lightning thing is way more troubling tbh

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Miles Davis beat women but Moka’s concern is his alleged “racism”?

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:28 (one year ago) Permalink

wasnt dressing up part of everything he did tho

xp

i n f i n i t y (∞), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:29 (one year ago) Permalink

nico

― Karl Malone, Monday, November 13, 2017 4:31 PM (fifty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Warum brichst du mir mein herz ;_;

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:31 (one year ago) Permalink

ja, das ist wahr

you didn't know about nico? i only learned about her terrible opinions a year or two ago. hell, my awakening to the sad truth is probably documented on an ilx thread (probably me posting "aw dammit, nico. fuck!" or something similar)

Karl Malone, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Here's a more obscure one: I used to have an album by the '90s Chicago post-punk band Trenchmouth, probably best known for having a pre-SNL Fred Armisen on drums. A few years ago one of their guitarists, then a college professor, turned out to be a pedophile. I recommend not reading any details of the case beyond what is contained in that article.

― JRN, Sunday, November 12, 2017 7:54 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jesus fucking christ, I hadn't heard of this...

chr1sb3singer, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

we are supposed to list albums. allow me to get this back on track: Greatest Hits and i think we can all agree, 20th Century Masters

you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm assuming you are getting at her anti-semitism. It totally sucks, yeah. Though she also had a fondness for Andreas Baader? It's difficult to figure it out.

I think more than ever I've had to admit to myself that I'm awfully arbitrary about where I draw the line, and when I am suddenly ok crossing it at times. Burzum is a complete no go for me now (not hard: his music sucks), but I've no trouble listening to the church burning, murdering black metal I love. Fascist/racist BM however is a no go again. I still listen to (early) Swans, even though Gira turns out to be a terrible man. If anything, this and #metoo has shown me I'm inconsequential as fuck.

Have to say though, there is a difference - for me - between music and film. I cannot stomach seeing Spacey in anything anymore, I wouldn't enjoy it because he's *in my face* all the time, he's on screen. With music (or paintings) it's murkier, less in your face. But again, I realise how arbitrary it all is, and how morally I draw the line at one person where I don't with another. And it sucks but it's good to realise and try and figure out why this is the case.

that was an xp to KM

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah ok sorry sufjan, jeez...

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

wasn't rreally aware of this myself but ugh...

Nico was described by some friends and colleagues as racist. Her friend Danny Fields, the American journalist who helped her sign to Elektra Records, described her as "Nazi-esque", saying: "Every once in a while there'd be something about Jews and I'd be, 'But Nico, I'm Jewish,' and she was like 'Yes, yes, I don't mean you.' She had a definite Nordic Aryan streak, [the belief] that she was physically, spiritually and creatively superior", a view she appears to have continued to maintain throughout her later years. According to Fields, Nico once attacked a mixed-race woman in a restaurant with a smashed wineglass, saying "I hate black people". During a performance in Berlin, the audience rioted after Nico performed the German national anthem "Deutschlandlied", including a verse omitted since 1945 for its nationalist associations.[23] However, Nico dedicated this performance to militant Andreas Baader, leader of the anti-fascist Red Army Faction.[24]

plp will eat itself (NickB), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Ron Asheton, Siouxsie, Lemmy, Jeff Hanneman : wore/collected nazi parafernalia?

StanM, Monday, 13 November 2017 17:53 (one year ago) Permalink

A thing I've talked about before on ilx that hit a lot harder than the reed/nico stuff, because it's the "good guy" & also the one whose music I care about a lot more: in the cale autobiography there's this account of him (iirc) throwing a whiskey glass into a woman's face and breaking her teeth. The only weight this is really given in the narrative is in how it relates to his overcoming substance abuse problems.

The weirdest thing about this is I can't find anything about it on the internet despite it being as horrifying an incident as the nico thing (minus the nazi angle obv) and I lost my copy of the book and when I've mentioned it on here everyone's ignored me. Maybe I imagined the whole thing? Someone other than me must have read this book...

treeship: a year in the life (wins), Monday, 13 November 2017 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

I still listen to The Smiths on occasion, particularly Hatful of Hallow.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:02 (one year ago) Permalink

I do fuck with Wagner, who posthumously inspired Nazis, but I won't listen to Von Karajan, who elected to join them

(Wagner - he was an absolute piece of shit and so voluble about it, but i see The Ring as a monster which escaped its creator and became more human than him)

(Karajan - if he fucking regretted what he did in his youth he could have said something at some point in his long life about it, fuck you dude)

Chopin's antisemitism bothers me as well - something about that coupled with the extreme fastidiousness of his style adds up to musical repulsion)

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:03 (one year ago) Permalink

I found the last time I brought it up

I mean I love john cale and I can't for the life of me find my (signed!) copy of his book, and I mentioned this in some velvets thread or other to such little response/corroboration that I feel almost gaslighted, but I swear he flatly describes an incident as horrific as shithead racist nico's assault on a black woman

― (emphasis mine) (wins), Saturday, 10 October 2015 16:30 (two years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink


& remember googling it then, and I'm usually pretty good at googling but there was nothing. I apologise to cale if this never happened

treeship: a year in the life (wins), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:04 (one year ago) Permalink

First time hearing about Cantat from Noir Desir! Only song from them I know is ‘le vent nous portera” mainly because I love Manu Chao and he is a guest artist in there. I can’t believe he’s out there recording already.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:05 (one year ago) Permalink

D-40: first time hearing about Miles beating up women. I had a shirt of him that I don’t think I’ll ever be able to wear anymore.

Here’s a few more that haven’t been listed yet:

http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/01/13/here-is-a-list-of-men-who-made-great-but-music-were-not-always-great-people/

Starting to think everyone that becomes a
Legend in music is terrible. We need a counter-thread before I lose all hope

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:09 (one year ago) Permalink

I think D-40 meant Miles was a deeply flawed human being for all sorts of reasons, no argument there. But accusing him of racism, as you did, supposed "racism" towards white people is... Not on. There is no racism "against white people". (but I feel we've been here before...)

Cantat is the best example. It's difficult though. He served his sentence, he was convicted and did the time. I can't stand the guy, but if we're talking "everyone deserves a second chance" etc, well, here we are.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Three counter examples :

Josh homme kicking olivieri out the band for physically abusing nick's girlfriend.

Tori Amos for her work with RAINN and genuinely awesome support of her fans.

And George Michael, who was decent AF

Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:27 (one year ago) Permalink

My favorite counter-example so far:

at a Danzig show in high school, a bouncer got me & my friend backstage. lots of teens hanging out, thinking we were going to party SO hard! Glenn finally came out, talked to everyone about healthy choices & weight lifting, and made every kid take a piece of fruit when we left. https://t.co/4JOdyvuDHD

— jessica (@yayponies) November 11, 2017

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:28 (one year ago) Permalink

"reliably decent musicians" should or could be a thread. Homme did used to have a habit of being pretty damn homophobic in stage banter though

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 18:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Homme still jamming with supreme prick and islamophobe Jesse Hughes iirc

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh I see. I already knew Miles was a bitter man and pretty much hated everyone and everything which is why I said I didn’t care much about his hate of white people. Beating up women is another story in my book. That one does kill my enjoyment of his music.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Ah ok, then I misunderstood. And yeah, it's a mood killer for sure. Same with James Brown, for me.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Those counter-examples warm my heart I do need to read more of those, this thread is depressing and enraging.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:35 (one year ago) Permalink

Homme still jamming with supreme prick and islamophobe Jesse Hughes iirc

I'm not inclined to judge Jesse harshly, all things considered.

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 18:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Knew that was coming. And agreed, but still no reason to go full islamophobic imo. There's never a reason for hatred like that.

(easy for me to say, I know, I know..)

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink

I interviewed Tom Waits and he called back the next night because he wanted to talk more about how much of an equal songwriting partner his wife Kathleen Brennan was. https://t.co/cxD4dAHVb9

— burning ambulance (listen to the podcast!) (@burn_amb) November 11, 2017

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:41 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah it's not an excuse per se, I'm just not inclined to be as upset with him as I would be someone like Myrkur xp

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 18:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Eminem has said some harsh thing about our President, so I don't think I'm going to download his new album

President Keyes, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Jesse Hughes kind of just says whatever without thinking much? Iirc he is a trump supporter but when he came to Mexico last time he was saying fuck trump’s wall.

His muslim comments don’t seem particularly hateful just heavily misinformed and made the same week after the attack, he was probably paranoid as fuck.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:42 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean what happened was devastating and atrocious and unimaginable and life altering, but you can't hand out free passes to people who witnessed that to hate, just because they went through it.

xp to Simon: yeah, gotcha

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Unless I’m missing further islamophobic comments he has made?

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:43 (one year ago) Permalink

*they went "through it" already not clear enough, as terror in the name of Islam isn't the same as Islam practised by billions of muslims.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:44 (one year ago) Permalink

I feel like we've already had 10 iterations of this thread

Οὖτις, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:45 (one year ago) Permalink

He's a traumatised person who probably shouldn't have done so many interviews/shouldn't have been triggered to spill his guts, so early after it happened tbrh

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:46 (one year ago) Permalink

DJP, a friend of mine just interviewed ol Glenn D. and said he was not only amazingly nice, but he stayed a lot longer than he had to and the only time he took a break was to go home to feed his cats, and also turn on the lights for them in the house since it was getting dark.

omar little, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:46 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/20/french-festivals-ditch-eagles-of-death-metal-over-singers-comments-jesse-hughes

Are these the comments made? It just reads to me like paranoid crazy talk.

For what it counts article says he later apologized and said it was ‘trauma’ talk. But yeah wouldn’t surprise me if deep down this guy hates muslims.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

i used to get Eagles of Death Metal mixed up w/DFA 1979 because there was something about their aesthetic that seemed similar, plus they each had a Jesse. Now they each have an anti-Islam Jesse.

omar little, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink

It’s a shame I don’t really like Danzig’s music at all because everything I’ve heard of him makes it seem like he is a class dude.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost A long time ago I saw Danzig in a small club and he played pool with me and my friends while the opening act played. Nice dude.

President Keyes, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Wait DFA 1979 also have an anti-islam jesse?

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Jesse has always been seriously right-wing. Not just after the attacks. I think I saw something in an interview with him in which he talked about his absent father being a liberal.

how's life, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Jesse Hughes, I mean. Not DFA guy.

how's life, Monday, 13 November 2017 18:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm aware of the most infamous of these stories, but generally I don't play this game. There's no end to it, and I can choose to make Artist X's unproven "crimes" as much of a nonfactor as fans of the Stones, Bowie, Page et al make their pretty well-chronicled underage-groupie histories.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:10 (one year ago) Permalink

the narrative about Jesse in that EODM documentary is that he found his true self by shedding a dad/husband mask and discovering his inner "rock star" after his wife cheated on him, but he now seems trapped in this alter ego that we are supposed to take as not at all ironic. but he is kinda a shithead if it's not ironic.

you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Ironically being a jackass means you are being a jackass.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah, the subtext is that Homme is genuinely looking out for the guy and likes to play drums in a band sometimes. and this is way EODM exists.

you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Morbz otm

xp

Οὖτις, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:19 (one year ago) Permalink

xp to Morbs: I don't usually spend too much time thinking about this kind of stuff either. I couldn't just stop loving a piece of music all because of something the artist did in their life.

how's life, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

I am trying to think of anyone I have kept in my music collection knowing they are a gigantic racist; the only person coming to mind is Morrissey and that is only for pre-Strangeways Smiths songs. I also almost never listen to The Smiths anymore.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:29 (one year ago) Permalink

I wouldn't own any records at all if I applied the same rules to musicians I did to, say, friends and family members who want to come round my house. From where I'm sitting now I can see LPs by Notorious BIG, Miles Davis, Iggy Pop, David Bowie, Johny Cash, The Fall, Fela Kuti, Siouxsie, Swans, Mayhem, Nico, Public Enemy, Afrika Bambaataa and my eyesight's not so good. If I actually got up and went over to the shelves...

I try not to listen to anyone who uses their fame and influence as a platform to push abhorrent views or to promote their own abhorrent behaviour as being fine. Even so I'd admit to a certain amount of hypocrisy. Shamefully, I did a good enough job of ignoring the problems with Morrissey for a long time (but haven't listened to him at home or gone to see him live for about a decade I think). I don't want to diminish the experiences of any of the victims of men mentioned higher up in this thread but it's the proactively evangelical I simply can't take any more. Morrissey is a cancerous presence in popular culture and my observations are that racists flock to him and are energised by him. See also to a lesser extent: Death In June, Burzum etc. What Gary Glitter did was unforgivable (to pick an example) but I don't see his music as being likely to promote pedophilia or sex tourism or him acting as a totemic figure for nonces to draw succour from. (Although I don't have any evidence for this and this is such a serious subject I would happily - happily - change my position if someone were to point out why I was wrong.) I wouldn't buy any of Glitter's records new because of the financial implications but I'll still listen to them on YouTube, buy them from a second hand record shop or download them for free. As was mentioned upthread though - he's clearly just part of the 'tip of the iceberg' when it comes to musicians from the 70s and before who were straight up sex criminals. There's a chilling bit in Simon Reynolds' glam book where he quotes from Glitter's (pre-disgrace) autobiography talking about how Keith Moon switched him on to sleeping with teenage groupies - something he claims he'd always resisted beforehand. The subtext was clear: Moon was telling him 'We're all at it - you're an idiot for not joining in.' I don't see anyone attacking The Who - because they're classic rock cannon and not some 'fake' glam shit. It's always easier to take a stand against uncool musicians you don't like. I'm probably as guilty of this as anyone - I lost a lot more hair fretting over Swans than I did over Ariel Pink. Although I've pretty much stopped listening to Swans as well.

There's obviously a big grey area here as well though - artists who transmit coded messages about their behaviour.

Doran, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:49 (one year ago) Permalink

That Swans/Ariel Pink comparison is somewhat unbalanced. Apologies. But the wider point still remains.

Doran, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:52 (one year ago) Permalink

I've been skeezed by the Who since Townshend's involvement with child pr0n was revealed.

droit au butt (Euler), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:54 (one year ago) Permalink

The queens of the stone age guy belongs on this list just for creating a band as awful as the eagles of death metal in the first place. He's worse than Wagner just for that alone. At least Wagner had tunes!

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:55 (one year ago) Permalink

"for nonces to draw succour from"

my fave Mayhem EP by the way...

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:57 (one year ago) Permalink

V. guilty LOL.

Doran, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

John Lennon said the Beatles were bigger than Jesus so I burned all their albums

akm, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:10 (one year ago) Permalink

xp no guilt, no shame in that LOL

sarahell, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink

My position on Gira/Swans is basically "Wait - the guy who wrote a song called 'Raping A Slave' is a piece of shit? You're kidding!" Also, he laughed out loud when I called him a moralist while interviewing him. The evidence was there, is what I'm saying.

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 13 November 2017 20:31 (one year ago) Permalink

idk i used a lot of the swans songs about abuse as a way of processing my own experiences of abuse and i experienced that whole thing as a deep, personal betrayal, but i guess the evidence was there all along

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 13 November 2017 20:36 (one year ago) Permalink

a friend of mine just interviewed ol Glenn D. and said he was not only amazingly nice, but he stayed a lot longer than he had to and the only time he took a break was to go home to feed his cats, and also turn on the lights for them in the house since it was getting dark.

meanwhile this is just the best

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 13 November 2017 20:37 (one year ago) Permalink

the Waits story is so nice

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 20:39 (one year ago) Permalink

i still don't know the whole story about gira but it did make me lot want to listen to swans. i don't really listen to them much anymore anyway.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

NOT want to....

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:43 (one year ago) Permalink

if i get "shaman" vibes off of a frontman i usually steer clear

omar little, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:46 (one year ago) Permalink

the Gira story seems to have just vanished after the initial fallout, enough that I think Swans "final" tour just went off without anyone bringing it up? I even know people who went who seemed to have forgotten the whole thing.

akm, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:47 (one year ago) Permalink

i mean i LOVED swans. let's be clear. mostly for the early 90s awesomeness though i was certainly a fan in the 80s as well. but i listened to that stuff SO much and swans are dead tour was a great end to a cool band and it was kind of nice to move on in my own life.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:48 (one year ago) Permalink

though i did join jarboe's swans e-mail list a long time ago when i first got a computer. just to see what that was like.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 20:49 (one year ago) Permalink

there was definitely a palpable dip in enthusiasm for The Glowing Man (imo it was alos just not that exciting an album, which did not help). can't speak to whether the shows were more sparsely attended or not, though.

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 20:50 (one year ago) Permalink

*also

Simon H., Monday, 13 November 2017 20:50 (one year ago) Permalink

the Gira story seems to have just vanished after the initial fallout, enough that I think Swans "final" tour just went off without anyone bringing it up? I even know people who went who seemed to have forgotten the whole thing.

― akm, Monday, November 13, 2017 3:47 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

people worldwide stopped mentioning it because they were afraid ilxor what's his name would drop in and pester them

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, 13 November 2017 20:57 (one year ago) Permalink

the guy who can't get over glenn mcdonald being a spotify employee. him.

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, 13 November 2017 20:57 (one year ago) Permalink

I've been skeezed by the Who since Townshend's involvement with child pr0n was revealed.

― droit au butt (Euler), Monday, November 13, 2017 2:54 PM (forty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What actually happened was this: after a close friend of Townshend's, who had been abused as a child, committed suicide, Townshend posted an essay he'd written called "A Different Bomb," to his website. This was a year before his arrest. Included in this essay was Townshend decrying the ease with which one could view child porn -- unwisely (to say the least), he used his credit card to access such a site to prove his point. He also alerted at least one UK-based child protection agency, who brushed him off (after his arrest, they loudly denounced him, then had to backtrack once it was pointed out they'd ignored him a year prior). He contemplated going to the cops, but his lawyer advised against it.

No images were found on Townshend's computers and hard drives, and he was cleared. There's no evidence that he did anything other than something really fucking stupid in order to prove a point.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 13 November 2017 20:59 (one year ago) Permalink

the guy who can't get over glenn mcdonald being a spotify employee. him.

― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, November 13, 2017 12:57 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that guy is mentally ill i think

omar little, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:03 (one year ago) Permalink

idk. i kind of think that when an artist puts their art into the world, it becomes part of the world, they have to surrender it to an extent. some of that swans music (or miles, or lennon) -- it's mine, now, you know? it has meaning to me and resonance in my life that is independent from the asshole who made it. sometimes the art's connection to the artist as a person is too stark for me to get beyond that, and certainly the artist's life as the art's creator has inherent interest and value to me, but with some art that i engage with a deeper level, i can kind of claim it as my own, it's not theirs anymore. i remember larkin grimm saying something like "i don't care if you throw out your swans records or not, art is higher than morality" and i generally agree with that even if it's not always the case.

marcos, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:11 (one year ago) Permalink

i recognize though that it's a pretty subjective thing and a very personal decision to make whether or not to engage w/ art from a reprehensible shithead

marcos, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:12 (one year ago) Permalink

If that Townshend story is true it’s kind of funny in a twisted way.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:14 (one year ago) Permalink

I think right now my stance is:

I might continue listening to the music as long as the overall shittiness of the people behind the music is not projected on its lyrics, but I’d rather not buy any album of theirs.

Many rock and pop music revolves around sex though, so unfortunately my view of the song gets ruined when I know an artist was thinking about underage girls when writing it. It feels dirty.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:21 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost that version of the story is pretty broadly not known, maybe more so in the USA? I routinely hear people making pedophile jokes about Townshend

President Keyes, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:22 (one year ago) Permalink

I think this thread has effectively ruined 70’s classic rock music for me. Now I can only think of all these bands fucking 14 year old groupies and having a laugh about it.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:23 (one year ago) Permalink

xp: That version of the Townsend story is exactly how I remember it being reported when the whole thing broke.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

I think where I draw the absolute line is whether or not the artist is alive. Like, I own one James Brown album, and when I bought it I knew he was a wife-beater, but at that point he was already dead, so I wasn't supporting him financially in any way. And like someone said upthread, it's not like he made songs glorifying violence towards women; I wouldn't listen to such songs even if they were made by someone who'd never hurt a soul, because why would I want to listen to something that's against my core values?

But then you have someone like Varg Vikernes; I'd never buy anything he's released, cos I'd know the money would go into supporting him and his spreading of fascist propaganda online. (Not that I listen to the kind of music he makes anyway.) So if I know someone who's alive is a fascist or racist or an abuser etc, I just don't buy his music. There's so much good music in the world I'm not gonna miss one artist's catalog.

Though tbh, even with dead artists, if I've never been particularly interested in their music to begin with, like with John Lennon or David Bowie, knowing they were assholes and abusers is good excuse to keep ignoring their material.

Tuomas, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

whenever i hear the townshend story i can't help but think of that whole "i was doing research" excuse.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

For the most part I don't really seek out much info on the artists I listen to, mostly because I don't like discovering terrible things about artists I like.

Terrible people sometimes make good things and it feels unfair to have to stop listening to these good things just because the artist who created did some unrelated terrible thing.

silverfish, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:35 (one year ago) Permalink

re: the Who, Keith Moon beat his wife, and that story about him and Glitter doesn't surprise me at all.

This is interesting, though:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/the-who-charity-work/

As Townshend recalls the story, the band members were in the midst of recording their Quadrophenia LP when they received a call from Joanna Lumley, the actor now best known for her role as Patsy in Absolutely Fabulous. Invited to meet her in London, Townshend demurred, but offered to send one of his bandmates in his stead — and Moon volunteered because, as Townshend put it, he was "very much hoping that it would lead to something sexual, I think."

The reality of Moon's meeting with Lumley turned out to be life-alteringly different for the drummer — and his bandmates. "It turned out that what she’d done is invited him to the very, very first women’s refuge in the world [the domestic violence shelter Chiswick’s Women’s Aid, founded in 1971]. And Joanna got him cleaning toilets," said Townshend. "He came back in tears. And he said, ‘Pete, we’ve got to do something for these women!’"

Moon's epiphany took on added meaning for Townshend later, after he realized Moon had been guilty of "real violent outbursts against his wife" during moments when he suspected her of infidelity — sadly ironic because, as Townshend pointed out, "in fact, it was the other way around." In seeing the error of his ways and spurring the band to action, Moon helped spark a lifetime of efforts on behalf of others.

"We started to do shows for the woman [Erin Pizzey] who started [the refuge]. And that’s how charity work began for me and for the band. And we’ve gone on from there," added Townshend. "Anyway, that was a great moment. And it was one of the nicest stories about Keith, I think: that something had touched his heart, because usually he would turn everything into a gag."

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:35 (one year ago) Permalink

whenever i hear the townshend story i can't help but think of that whole "i was doing research" excuse.

― scott seward, Monday, November 13, 2017 4:34 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

As Dave Marsh put it at the time, "Yes, the cops had a right and an obligation to look into this. But that isn't what happened. They took somebody and dragged him through as much mud as they could dig up. This is basically about criminalizing investigative behavior — saying, 'You're not allowed to investigate certain things.' And any journalist who doesn't feel threatened by that is not paying attention."

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:37 (one year ago) Permalink

i never much cared for any of his bands, but i was listening to the trap set (podcast) interview with carmine appice for a few minutes when he started talking about how he watched his band members assault a neighborhood girl (and joked about it landing him in prison these days) and then casually said he would "force himself" on girls after they said "no no no" and I almost barfed. Of course, I have heard exactly 0 other people talking about this but it really stuck with me. He was very casual about it. The part starts at 6:06 or so, and I doubt i made it 10 min into the interview before i bailed bc I do not care what this guy has to say about anything. it's possible his feet were held to the fire at some point but i didn't stick around to find out.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:43 (one year ago) Permalink

tarfumes, i do love that you are captain save-a-who. i love the who! i don't want to think that they were terrible people.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:43 (one year ago) Permalink

I haven't enjoyed Swans in the same way (or much at all) since the Grimm situation

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:44 (one year ago) Permalink

so much musician stuff is terrible drug & alcohol stuff. i'm NOT condoning or defending behavior, but so much of it is. and being miserable. while high and drunk.

scott seward, Monday, 13 November 2017 21:45 (one year ago) Permalink

and widespread cultural acceptance of treating women like garbage

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:47 (one year ago) Permalink

that carmine appice story is loathsome!

carmine appice of shit more like

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:51 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah
the teaser for the ep also claimed that he had "slept with" over 4K women :(

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 13 November 2017 21:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow, just listened to that Carmine Appice clip. "When Mike Tyson went to prison, I thought 'we used to do that every night'".

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 13 November 2017 23:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Wrt Zep, I think I actually feel worse about how they treated Ellen Sander of Life, which I consider horrifying and indefensible, than about the Page/Maddox relationship, which is weird and gross but afaik not something she herself regards as abusive.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 13 November 2017 23:33 (one year ago) Permalink

(I'm definitely on the side of separating the art from the artist, though.)

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 13 November 2017 23:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Morbs is OTM. Personally I'm more likely to be put off by an artist's awful history if I don't already know their music too well (Gira), making it easy to not bother investigating any further. Existing favorite artists come out unscathed. I'm strangely less affected by awful artists in music than movie directors/actors/etc. who are human garbage. Not sure what that says

Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 13 November 2017 23:38 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah was gonna say Zep were terrible, Bowie I guess I've never heard anything close to Led Zeppelin behavior, but as far as the underage groupies it's hard to parse because Maddox or Pamela Des Barres or Connie Hamzy the GTOs definitely don't seem to regard themselves as victims, and always make it sound like they very much were pursuers in these relationships or one night stands, not that "it was a different time"isn't used far too often as an excuse but it was a hell of a time

Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 00:20 (one year ago) Permalink

she might not consider herself a victim, but Maddox certainly wasn't the "pursuer" with either Page or Bowie

Number None, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 00:21 (one year ago) Permalink

phil spector is prob the worst human being whose work i love, but tbh it's not like he's actually on the records, i think of it as listening to ronnie or darlene love or whoever.

i suspect when jerry lee lewis finally kicks it (and it can't be long) the coverage of his death will be v different now than it might have been 10 years ago.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 01:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Well, Lead Belly killed someone too but that just added to the legend.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 01:17 (one year ago) Permalink

the pete townshend thing is kinda sad because i find his story p plausible, it seems to be what actually happened, and yet it's such a convoluted story that once the details have faded ppl were just left with this general idea that "hey, that pete townshend, he turned out to be pretty creepy, right?"

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 01:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Eric Clapton has spent a long time shadowed by his vocal support of Enoch Powell, and Elvis Costello by his comment about Ray Charles (which he still describes as "drunken logic" in which he thought saying the worst possible thing would get him out of an awkward argument).

Lots of things can be (and have been) said about both those situations, and it's not really interesting to rehash. I still own and like many of their admirable records, but I will probably always stop short of endorsing them as admirable people. Just to be on the safe side, not because I don't think they've tried to atone.

piezoelectric landlord (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 02:08 (one year ago) Permalink

I generally draw the line at supporting people who might be putting their money into extremist causes.

Even though I enjoy worse people than him, I completely went off seeing anything more by director Harry Kumel. He slapped one of the female stars of Daughters Of Darkness (the male star punched him for this) and I read an interview with him in which he complained about Swedish women getting fat and I disliked a lot of his opinions. I guess I just disliked him in too many ways and didn't like his film enough to want more.

And there is a writer whose work I think I might like and I'm queasy about possibly buying her work because she harrassed some other people in astonishingly shitty ways.

I once heard that Rik James brutally abused women but I don't know anything about it.

Not extreme at all for this thread, but I recently seen Ghostface Killah saying Cosby had a "pussy problem" and that men should never be ballet dancers.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 02:19 (one year ago) Permalink

I laughed about the male ballet dancers part, it's insane.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 02:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Costello's excuse is so dumb... he should have apologized instead, instead he just offered excuses. I was drunk and I wanted to annoy these other white men by offending black men. Wtf?

✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 02:23 (one year ago) Permalink

iirc, Costello apologized, while still stressing the “I was drunk!”excuse. And Bowie quickly made an embarrassed apology for his nazi salute.

But not only has Clapton never apologized, as late as 2004 he doubled down on his support of Enoch Powell, calling him “outrageously brave.”

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 02:52 (one year ago) Permalink

i suspect when jerry lee lewis finally kicks it (and it can't be long) the coverage of his death will be v different now than it might have been 10 years ago.

Well, they already made a whole movie about how he married his 13 year old cousin.

As far as likely murdering a later wife, the Rolling Stone article I linked to above was published in 1984 and I only came across it by dumb luck earlier this year. afaik that story is completely lost to time.

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 02:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Clapton might also be the only guy on the thread who said he was "into racism".

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 02:56 (one year ago) Permalink

I once heard that Rik James brutally abused women but I don't know anything about it.

Dude, if you're serious, look this one up (or don't, depending on what you can stomach). A contender for the most messed-up story on this thread.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 03:21 (one year ago) Permalink

i'm not actually a fan of hers but courtney love assaulted kathleen hanna back in the 90s, and the way music writers tended to frame it as a "fight" or a "brawl" or whatever has always bugged me

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 03:30 (one year ago) Permalink

wait what

Simon H., Tuesday, 14 November 2017 03:33 (one year ago) Permalink

She got a one-year suspended sentence for assault for that.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 03:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Being a fucked-up, drunken mess (but intermittently smart) was always part of Courtney’s persona, so this one should hardly surprise anyone.

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 03:53 (one year ago) Permalink

A lot of people seemed to go off Thurston Moore after he left Kim Gordon. Wasn't a problem for me though, as I was never into him in the first place.

heaven parker (anagram), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 07:53 (one year ago) Permalink

well Thurston's just your common or garden slimy prick rather than an actual abuser

Number None, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 08:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Re Townshend. Tommy has some pretty messed situations and the child pr0n situation put them in a different light for me. how awful a person is he? I dunno for sure, but he seems very messed up (I still enjoy his art fwiw)

droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 08:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, in this context, I think the bar for "awful person" is higher than "had an affair".

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 12:22 (one year ago) Permalink

And there’s a viewpoint that being a customer of Sonic Youth records doesn’t make Thurston Moore’s domestic arrangements any of your business.

Luna Schlosser, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 12:40 (one year ago) Permalink

not a v popular one at the moment

ogmor, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 12:50 (one year ago) Permalink

aint that the truth

Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 12:54 (one year ago) Permalink

I did know a little bit about the Rik James story but I wasn't sure I could trust the site. For all these true fucked up stories there's probably a lot of myths spread by fans and haters.

Anyone know anything about the NWA stories about them beating up journalists? In one case throwing a woman down the stairs and giving her a beating? Was this the whole group? Is it a myth?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 12:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Rick James stuff was national news at the time.

NWA was Dr. Dre specifically. I had not heard of it until a couple years ago. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dee-barnes-reflects-on-traumatic-dr-dre-1991-assault-exclusive-interview_us_55f6c9c1e4b063ecbfa4c77f

how's life, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:01 (one year ago) Permalink

music writers tended to frame it as a "fight" or a "brawl"

The underlying (and pretty sexist) assumption being that women fighting is somehow "cute." They might break a nail! Or, better yet, tear some lacy clothing. Ugh.

piezoelectric landlord (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:06 (one year ago) Permalink

that also highlights the abysmal way music journalism treated women in those days

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 13:58 (one year ago) Permalink

did anyone notice that headline about Thurston "squealing" on Courtney. What a narc!

President Keyes, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 14:44 (one year ago) Permalink

the rick james thing was hardly some rumor, that's well known history at this point

akm, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 15:40 (one year ago) Permalink

Courtney punching Kathleen was well-known at the time and just emblematic of Courtney's general shittiness imo

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah Rick James was not a rumor, there was enough evidence that he even went to prison. Of course rich and famous people just do 2 or 3 years at prison for things that normal citizens would rot in jail for.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah Rick James was not a rumor, there was enough evidence that he even went to prison. Of course rich and famous people just do 2 or 3 years at prison for things that normal citizens would rot in jail for.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:22 AM (forty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the rick james stuff was a joke to people, like part and parcel of his legend, oh that troublemaker and those women, etc. people often forgive shit by artists they like or find amusing. rick james hero worship was equal parts music and image.

omar little, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:26 (one year ago) Permalink

I think Dave Chapelle is partly to blame for turning him
into a meme with the “I’m Rick James, bitch” and “Cocaine is a hell of a drug” catchphrases.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:30 (one year ago) Permalink

my fave rick james detail. he actually took the PERFECT amount of those drugs. we may never know what killed him:

"He had died from pulmonary failure and cardiac failure, associated with his various health conditions of diabetes, a stroke, pacemaker, and heart attack. His autopsy found alprazolam, diazepam, bupropion, citalopram, hydrocodone, digoxin, chlorpheniramine, methamphetamine, and cocaine in his blood. However, the coroner stated that "none of the drugs or drug combinations were found to be at levels that were life-threatening in and of themselves"."

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:31 (one year ago) Permalink

as far as rick james and this thread go: when was the last time someone listened to a rick james album?

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:35 (one year ago) Permalink

I gave Garden of Love a spin or two this summer.

how's life, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:39 (one year ago) Permalink

I don’t think I’ve ever listened let alone owned a Rick James album which is why I didn’t bring him up in the first place.

Only know him because of Dave Chapelle and the Super Freak sample on U Cant Touch This. I wasn’t even born when he rose to fame.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:42 (one year ago) Permalink

the mary jane girls, on the other hand, are essential listening.

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink

Rick James has at least two all-time classic songs

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Street Songs is a fucking great record.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't know anyone who thinks Rick James is funny; I do know a bunch of people who think Dave Chappelle imitating Rick James is funny, because it was.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 16:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Indeed. As much as I love Street Songs, I think Rick James became a joke, and not in the funny sense.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:02 (one year ago) Permalink

just saying, aside from super freak and chapelle show he's mostly forgotten. and if chapelle show had never happened he would be almost entirely gone aside from fm super freak airplay. he has a LOT of albums that nobody listens to. other than nerds. like you guys. joking! not really. a little!

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Well, there's a sample of him shouting "GIMME SOME GANJA!" all over a Kendrick Lamar track that came out this year.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Not comparing it to Rick James or anything - well, maybe a bit - but Boy George handcuffing someone, keeping them prisoner and beating them with a metal chain doesn't get mentioned too often these days.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:11 (one year ago) Permalink

In an apparently accidental allusion to Culture Club's 1982 No 1 hit Heather Norton, for the prosecution, asked the jury during the trial: "Did he really have to hurt him?"

new noise, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Very true, and he was only on TV last night singing a rendition of 'Purple Rain' during a show to promote a children's charity.

(xpost)

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

just saying, aside from super freak and chapelle show he's mostly forgotten by white people

^^^ more accurate in my experience

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Haha yeah

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:28 (one year ago) Permalink

also mary jane girls and 'party all the time'

plp will eat itself (NickB), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:33 (one year ago) Permalink

also "Mary Jane" the song

Number None, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:45 (one year ago) Permalink

xp: I love the part in that video when he steps out from behind the console to mime playing the bass for a few bars and then stops playing before the song's over to hug Eddie Murphy.

how's life, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:50 (one year ago) Permalink

he was definitely huge. and a crossover hit. for about three or four years. and no doubt people loved those records but aside from super freak he's kinda gone in the wider world. is all i'm saying. people will always love lots of old stuff that they loved (and old r&b/soul fans are totally loyal to their faves of yesteryear) but it doesn't always linger or stick around in pop culture other than THE BIG HIT. lots of people sold millions of records. he's not marvin gaye. to bring up another troubling icon mentioned on this thread.

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:55 (one year ago) Permalink

did he write party all the time?

akm, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Motown totally sold him to rock fans too. There were huge ads in every rock magazine for months on end for that first run of records. And it worked.

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

y

plp will eat itself (NickB), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

^ xp there

plp will eat itself (NickB), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

more "garden-variety prick" than actual abuser but even what little is public about the falling out between trent reznor and tori amos makes me very uncomfortable listening to NIN's stuff

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:05 (one year ago) Permalink

also I still listen to Kate Bush even though she supports Theresa May

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Bet she doesn't now.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

didnt rick james have like a dozen albums? insanely dismissive reading of his career itt. you guys dont know 'cold blooded' or 'give it to me baby'?

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

plus yeah his mary jane girls stuff was fire too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhf0NeyRfE

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:23 (one year ago) Permalink

don't go full ilm on me here, guys. *what, i'm the only one who listens to The Flag every morning before work?* i'm not talking about you guys. and yes like i said earlier mary jane girls are essential.

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

although i'm suspicious. i don't even think that YOU guys listen to rick james that much. you are too busy listening to your bootleg CDs of prince doing rick james covers.

scott seward, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 18:35 (one year ago) Permalink

the broader culture will come back around to you & I, ghetto life and give it to me baby sooner or later.

gospodin simmel, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 19:30 (one year ago) Permalink

There's a recent commercial that uses "Give It To Me Baby" but I can't remember it now.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 19:33 (one year ago) Permalink

I've seen/heard that, too, and I can't remember what the commercial is for. Good work, ad people!

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 19:39 (one year ago) Permalink

ok I did it artists who plausibly appear to be good people

don't have anything to contribute tho. feel like I only know the bad stories.

gospodin simmel, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 19:42 (one year ago) Permalink

I do slightly worry that anyone mentioned in that thread will shortly turn out to have rubbed unmentionable parts of his or her body on an underage puppy or something. Maybe that's superstitious but I am nervous about jinxing someone.

(Still, Janet Weiss is way cool.)

piezoelectric landlord (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Street songs is a classic album, shite reputation aside

Week of Wonders (Ross), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Not comparing it to Rick James or anything - well, maybe a bit - but Boy George handcuffing someone, keeping them prisoner and beating them with a metal chain doesn't get mentioned too often these days.

Just read about this. I don't think I heard of it before.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 02:50 (one year ago) Permalink

He got sentenced to 15 months in prison for it

groovypanda, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 09:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Carlsen told the jury he only escaped after wrenching the fixture free, but was beaten with a chain by the singer as he fled into the street in Shoreditch, east London. In an apparently accidental allusion to Culture Club's 1982 No 1 hit Heather Norton, for the prosecution, asked the jury during the trial: "Did he really have to hurt him?"

groovypanda, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 09:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Only on ILM could Rick James be dismissed by a bunch of dudes who listen to Ariel Pink and the fucking Swans

JB, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 11:56 (one year ago) Permalink

in my experience ILM is the only place where does fuckers get called out :D

gospodin simmel, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:11 (one year ago) Permalink

ILM plausibly appears to be good people.

how's life, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Which is why Nick S got Embrace to write that anthem about ILM...

Mark G, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Not comparing it to Rick James or anything - well, maybe a bit - but Boy George handcuffing someone, keeping them prisoner and beating them with a metal chain doesn't get mentioned too often these days.

seems comparable

treeship 2, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:27 (one year ago) Permalink

does = those

gospodin simmel, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Astonishing the disparity between Rick James's popularity in the US and the Uk. He never had a single Top 40 hit over here, even Superfreak did nothing in the days when funk/soul/(early 80s) Disco was still massive. Years later I remember being blown away by just how much of U Can't Touch This was based on Superfreak.

piscesx, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 14:30 (one year ago) Permalink

He regularly filled 12,000-18,000 capacity arenas in the states in the early '80s.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 14:36 (one year ago) Permalink

As long as there are wedding DJs, there will be "Superfreak."

So it is written, and so it will be.

piezoelectric landlord (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Do Quietus readers know that John Doran is a Gary Glitter apologist?

JB, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:10 (one year ago) Permalink

ilx posters who turned out to be 51'd almost immediately

imago, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:11 (one year ago) Permalink

Rick James' albums after 1983 are depressing, as in "I can't believe the drugs were so terrible as to turn his common sense and imagination into hot mush."

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:14 (one year ago) Permalink

(and I find James overall overrated, even Street Songs).

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:14 (one year ago) Permalink

you probably listen to nothing but ariel pink and swans though.

scott seward, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

As long as there are wedding DJs, there will be "Superfreak."

So it is written, and so it will be.

― piezoelectric landlord (Ye Mad Puffin)

speaking as someone who has DJ'd weddings, this is otm

sleeve, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:33 (one year ago) Permalink

The Dream and Chris Brown are recent examples. Hardly even had time to get Chris Brown records, but hated selling back my Dream records at the time.

matt2, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:36 (one year ago) Permalink

I should have expanded: as long as there are *weddings*, there will be wedding DJs, and as long as there are wedding DJs, there will be "Superfreak."

Esprit de l'escalier and all that

piezoelectric landlord (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 15:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Astonishing the disparity between Rick James's popularity in the US and the Uk. He never had a single Top 40 hit over here.

That said, "You And I" was a massive club tune in 1978. It spent four weeks at #2 in the Record Mirror disco chart (only kept off the top by "Boogie Oogie Oogie"), and had 26 consecutive weeks on the chart in total. And yet, it's never revived.

mike t-diva, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 17:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Do Quietus readers know that John Doran is a Gary Glitter apologist?

If this is a joke, it's not particularly funny.

If you're being serious, let me draw your attention to what I said: "What Gary Glitter did was unforgivable". And just to clarify (what doesn't really need clarifying tbh)I don't think Glitter was 'unlucky' or 'caught a tough break'; rather the opposite, that ideally everyone guilty of these crimes should suffer the same punishment.

Doran, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:08 (one year ago) Permalink

don't feed the moron :)

imago, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:11 (one year ago) Permalink

My laptop side bellend census isn't up to date, apologies for the oversight...

Doran, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Nah, I totally get what Doran was saying. Like this is what has rendered R. Kelly totally unlistenable to me, when he's singing about all that freak sex stuff you now know exactly what sort of person he's doing it to. His music is inseparable from the person. There's a reason why Michael Jackson's "Childhood" creeped people out where his other music didn't. Gary Glitter wrote a sports anthem with no real lyrics and had virtually no hits otherwise. When I hear it I don't really think "Oh no, Gary Glitter..."

frogbs, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Gary Glitter wrote a sports anthem with no real lyrics and had virtually no hits otherwise.

LOL Americans

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Cageian.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, what Tom D said - Glitter had several huge hits here, including the one where he repeatedly asked if you (the listener) wanted to be in his "gang" ...

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Let's not forget the one where he asked if you wanted touch him. Where? There.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

yeesh

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

You should hear his albums.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:28 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm gonna pass on that one

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:29 (one year ago) Permalink

i only listen to the version by philadelphia industrial rock legends executive slacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgTHmlVmP78

scott seward, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:29 (one year ago) Permalink

as you Tom already said, the Glitter Band was way better

the intentional phallusy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:30 (one year ago) Permalink

re Gary Glitter - would suggest avoiding "Happy Birthday"

Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:30 (one year ago) Permalink

"I wouldn't buy any of Glitter's records new because of the financial implications but I'll still listen to them on YouTube, buy them from a second hand record shop or download them for free."

John Doran, honourary member of Gary Glitter's gang

JB, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:31 (one year ago) Permalink

what the fuck is your problem you shit wannabe wight dorke

imago, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

don't feed the raccoon.

scott seward, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:34 (one year ago) Permalink

hahaha that must be the quickest I've ever disregarded my own advice

imago, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 19:36 (one year ago) Permalink

I actually don't own any Gary Glitter albums but, in theory I wouldn't have a problem in buying them second hand. I listened to Rock And Roll part one a load of times when I was reading Simon Reynolds' glam book and researching an interview with him. It's an astonishing record.

Doran, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Wasn't the Glitter sound mainly down to Mike Leander anyway?

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 20:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, sure absolutely. That's absolutely what my fascination is about.

Doran, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 20:35 (one year ago) Permalink

I think Mike Leander played most of the instruments on those early Gary Glitter records too.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 21:29 (one year ago) Permalink

glitter so lazy; probably also had other people molest children for him too

akm, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 22:02 (one year ago) Permalink

i used to really like rock'n'roll christmas when i was a kid

-_- (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 15 November 2017 22:03 (one year ago) Permalink

i like 'doctorin the tardis' more than Rock N Roll

akm, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 22:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Thought of another one which is not cool:

Wyclef Jean accused of stealing money from Haiti charity fund

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wyclef-jean-faces-criminal-probe-over-haiti-charity-8209814.html?amp

http://www.factmag.com/2016/02/15/wyclef-jean-reddit-ama-haiti-yele/amp/

✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 16 November 2017 00:41 (one year ago) Permalink

i owned a gary glitter 10" once but i spilled liquor on it and threw it away

brimstead, Thursday, 16 November 2017 02:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Most spirits have a pH around 7, close to water, and should pose no threat to Gary Glitter records

ur-oik (rip van wanko), Thursday, 16 November 2017 03:35 (one year ago) Permalink

Those Gary Glitter glam singles sound incredible imo. An amped up metaller version of Lennon's Spector era records.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 November 2017 04:10 (one year ago) Permalink

cardiacs, ugh

mookieproof, Thursday, 16 November 2017 04:20 (one year ago) Permalink

lol

imago, Thursday, 16 November 2017 11:12 (one year ago) Permalink

The thing about those early Gary Glitter singles is that they were as much of an influence on a certain generation of artists as David Bowie's glam stuff was. I'm thinking acts like the first incarnation of The Human League (who covered one of his songs in the early '80s) and Depeche Mode, amongst other new wave/synthpop/New Romantic acts.

I've seen recent interviews with Heaven 17's Glenn Gregory and Depeche Mode's Martin Gore where, when asked about their early influences, cite that early Gary Glitter stuff, but you can tell they're shocked and very much embarrassed by this - not because of anything to do with the music itself, but the actions of the person who fronted those records.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Thursday, 16 November 2017 20:28 (one year ago) Permalink

^^^Spot on. I think prior to H17, Gregory (and Ware) worked with Glitter on a track for B.E.F. They described him to me as "a lunatic"... just generally speaking, no hint of the utter wrongness.

Doran, Thursday, 16 November 2017 21:58 (one year ago) Permalink

huh I hadn't made the connection to DM, HL and other NewRos, but you sure can hear his stuff in the Chinn/Chapman productions, the Runaways/Joan Jett, tons of poppier punk/metal stuff going into the 80s

Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 November 2017 22:01 (one year ago) Permalink

And beyond on other English bands like Earl Brutus and The Fall.

Doran, Thursday, 16 November 2017 22:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Adam & the Ants.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 November 2017 22:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, BEF put Gary in the studio with the Glitter Band, they had never recorded together.

Mark G, Friday, 17 November 2017 00:07 (one year ago) Permalink

G&M's Russell Smith picking up the counterpoint:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/good-art-by-bad-people-why-it-shouldnt-be-thrown-away/article37006883/

doug watson, Friday, 17 November 2017 15:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, Adam and the Ants too. Basically, if you got rid of all the music those early singles influenced, it'd leave a huge black hole in pop music.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 17 November 2017 15:13 (one year ago) Permalink

lol, what did Adam and the Ants do? I have no knowledge of them.

how's life, Friday, 17 November 2017 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

ruined a picnic

President Keyes, Friday, 17 November 2017 15:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Ruined Eve.

nickn, Friday, 17 November 2017 17:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Explains the lack of pants

Evan, Friday, 17 November 2017 18:02 (one year ago) Permalink

I couldn't disown The Smiths as they made some of the best pop music ever (cliched but true!) and Johnny Marr's contributions are generally my favourite aspect of the group's songs anyway. Different story with Morrissey's career but I don't think I'd even like it much if he hadn't made the racist comments he has.

R Kelly is a difficult one for me. Knowing just some of the details regarding his repugnant behaviour doesn't stop me enjoying some of the songs, albeit a little less predisposed towards them than beforehand. I suppose I definitely find it easier to disown bad behaviour if I haven't known the artist's songs for years before finding out about it.

Custard Cream, Friday, 17 November 2017 19:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Adam and the Ants being another new wave act influenced by Gary Glitter, obviously.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 17 November 2017 19:54 (one year ago) Permalink

*have known the artist's songs

Custard Cream, Friday, 17 November 2017 19:56 (one year ago) Permalink

they held up a carriage at gunpoint iirc

President Keyes, Friday, 17 November 2017 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

don't drink don't smoke, what did they do?

"Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Saturday, 18 November 2017 13:22 (one year ago) Permalink

subtle innuendo follows

"Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Saturday, 18 November 2017 13:22 (one year ago) Permalink

must be something inside

"Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Saturday, 18 November 2017 13:22 (one year ago) Permalink

not sure how awful but a buddy of mine witnessed steven tyler go over to a girl at a restaurant and sit down next to her, pretending to be upset that she'd snapped a pic of him, then he was getting in her personal space and squeezing her and kissing her on the cheeks and she eventually got up and left, visibly uncomfortable, without eating any of her food. i saw some photos he took of it, she was "laughing it off" in the way that many women have described their reactions to unwanted advances but he was really, really in her space in a bad way. and at first my friend thought he was a crazy random sexual offender and not a rock star, he recognized him after a couple minutes.

omar little, Saturday, 18 November 2017 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

the idea of it taking a couple of minutes to discern Steven Tyler is befuddling! but that sounds like a Steven Tyler move from what ive heard

ur-oik (rip van wanko), Saturday, 18 November 2017 20:28 (one year ago) Permalink

"cardiacs, ugh

― mookieproof"

why? hasn't main guy from cardiacs been basically totally disabled for years and years?

akm, Sunday, 19 November 2017 15:30 (one year ago) Permalink

for almost the same length of time as 'bait lj' has been around tbh

imago, Sunday, 19 November 2017 15:31 (one year ago) Permalink

it's always with <3 from mookie though (i think)

imago, Sunday, 19 November 2017 15:32 (one year ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

Three counter examples :

Josh homme kicking olivieri out the band for physically abusing nick's girlfriend.

― Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, November 13, 2017 1:27 PM (three weeks ago)

cf. Josh Homme kicking a photographer in the face :(

jesus and figs and science and the foo fighters (unregistered), Sunday, 10 December 2017 20:38 (eleven months ago) Permalink

Jeezus that vid. Just an unprovoked blow to the head while she's photographing.

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 December 2017 20:42 (eleven months ago) Permalink

The kick, cutting himself, flipping off the crowd, yelling "fuck Muse"...scary behavior

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 December 2017 20:43 (eleven months ago) Permalink

eh, comparatively speaking, the other stuff is typical dumbass rockstar posturing. is he usually above that sort of behavior?

jesus and figs and science and the foo fighters (unregistered), Sunday, 10 December 2017 21:25 (eleven months ago) Permalink

No but all of it put together...

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 December 2017 21:32 (eleven months ago) Permalink

yeah this harshed my mellow for sure, was OFTM

In a slipshod style (Ross), Sunday, 10 December 2017 22:13 (eleven months ago) Permalink

His between-song patter at Wembley a few weeks back was pretty damned weird. I know he fucked his leg and his arm before the tour, he was limping offstage at the end of the gig, I wonder if he's on lots of pain meds? Not excusing his shitty, shitty behaviour at the KROQ thing, of course.

"Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Monday, 11 December 2017 12:47 (eleven months ago) Permalink


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