Sufjan Stevens’ Carrie & Lowell

http://youtu.be/qx1s_3CF07k

Drag me to hell
In the valley of The Dalles
Like my mother
Give wings to a stone
It’s only the shadow of a cross

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1s_3CF07k

Lyrics have allusions to Sufjan’s drug problem, <i>The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe</i>, and Valley of the Dolls. I’m super excited for the album.

yeah i'm ready for this

suf has a drug problem?

tyler beat me to the question I was going to ask. I must have missed that story.

suf has a drug problem?

Yeah :(

Pitchfork interview has a few details:

http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/9595-true-myth-a-conversation-with-sufjan-stevens/

Pitchfork: Considering you had a distant relationship, were you at all surprised that her death hit you so hard?

SS: Yeah. In the moment, I was stoic and phlegmatic and practical, but in the months following I was manic and frantic and disparaging and angry. They always talk about the science of bereavement, and how there is a measurable pattern and cycle of grief, but my experience was lacking in any kind of natural trajectory. It felt really sporadic and convoluted. I would have a period of rigorous, emotionless work, and then I would be struck by deep sadness triggered by something really mundane, like a dead pigeon on the subway track. Or my niece would point out polka-dotted tights at the playground, and I would suffer some kind of cosmic anguish in public. It's weird.

I was so emotionally lost and desperate for what I could no longer pursue in regard to my mother, so I was looking for that in other places. At the time, part of me felt that I was possessed by her spirit and that there were certain destructive behaviors that were manifestations of her possession.

Pitchfork: How so?

SS: Oh man, it's so hard to describe what was going on. It's almost like the force, or the matrix, or something: I started to believe that I was genetically, habitually, chemically predisposed to her pattern of destruction. I think a lot of the acting-out was rebellion, or maybe it was a way for me to… ah, this is so fucked up, I should probably go to therapy.

In lieu of her death, I felt a desire to be with her, so I felt like abusing drugs and alcohol and fucking around a lot and becoming reckless and hazardous was my way of being intimate with her. But I quickly learned that you don't have to be incarcerated by suffering, and that, in spite of the dysfunctional nature of your family, you are an individual in full possession of your life. I came to realize that I wasn't possessed by her, or incarcerated by her mental illness. We blame our parents for a lot of shit, for better and for worse, but it's symbiotic. Parenthood is a profound sacrifice.

Moreover, from the single:

I'll drive that stake through the center of my heart
Lonely vampire
Inhaling its fire
I’m chasing the dragon too far

well i guess that's not too subtle

That Pitchfork interview is amazing, got really affected by it

I'm disappointed this is not called "Oregon? Here's more again!"

This new album is way better than I expected a Sufjan Stevens album in 2015 to be

It's kind of perfect, plumbs a new depth of sadness, I listened to it a couple times and realized it was ruining my life and had to turn it off. Real end-of-world, end-of-life music. I've never really been a fan of his lyrics until now but this is too good, too fucked up

that songs posted here reminds me of Bon Iver and that's not a good sign.

(twee!)

Never expected to like a Sufjan album in 2015, also never expected to see people still use "twee" as shorthand for "spare arrangement"

it's the vocals

fgti, in case you want to read along and be utterly destroyed: http://asthmatickitty.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/AKR099_CarrieLowell_iTunes.pdf

Oversharing perhaps but I did read along and got so depressed by the second listen that I had to take a mental health day :/ I'm not the only one either, I chatted to a couple other people yesterday for whom this record had had the same effect, utterly devastating shit and I hope one day I might be able to listen to it with pleasure

this album is so sad

No Shade in the Shadow of the Cross has that hyper-exposed quality like Blue, but it's sadder. Don't know if I can handle an album of this.

"The Only Thing" is an early highlight.

From my first listen the subject matter + vocal style combo makes me think of a quieter version of Lost in the Trees' A Church That Fits Our Needs, probably the best chamber-folkish album of the last five years

Man, you all are making me want to hear this ASAP. I haven't yet, but Michigan, Illinois and Seven Swans are all wonderful and I'm a true believer that Sufjan is a genius.

This is his best album since Seven Swans. It's very bleak but I'm excited to hear him going back to his roots both music-wise and lyrics-wise. A hard pill to swallow but makes me excited about where he goes from here, seems like a do-over album and it feels devastating because he is letting go of everything in here. According to the interviews he had never been this confessional before.

It feels refreshing coming from him, I thought I wouldn't care about him again as I wasn't a big fan of his output post-seven swans (ok Illinoise and Adz had some great songs but they also had some very embarassing moments)

What I meant was: I like this album alright but I'm on board with everyone in here, I'm not in such a miserable mood that I'd want it as a companion at this very moment. Makes me interested in his music again and glad to have him back but I'd rather see where he goes from here. Maybe by the time winter comes it will become my favorite album this year who knows.

Also I've always loved his 'darker' songs like 'John Wayne Gacy', 'Holland', 'A good man is hard to find'... it's nice to have an album filled with these.

Gacy and Holland are two of my very favorites of his.

"Come on Feel the Illinoise!" the song never gets old, it's like seeing a new color

yeah I've always loved the more vibrant, Charlie Brown-esque tunes, stuff like "Jacksonville", "Chicago", "The Man of Metropolis Steals Our Hearts", and so on

that said Seven Swans is really great!

me i was down for his crazy noisy fusion thing

but i also like the idea of a sufjan record that's just a dank pretty acoustic pit

i wish this arrangement was recorded... the pitch-bent whammy power chords that launch into the chorus...... *smooches*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kfPmInRLts&spfreload=10

i love how emo this album is

me i was down for his crazy noisy fusion thing

― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson)

The album it relates to the most is Seven Swans (it's an even more stripped down sound than Seven Swans, actually) but it also feels like a direct sequel to Age of Adz. It might be how much his producing skills have improved since the early albums but it has the same sort of lyrical buildup and emotional outbursts that Illinoise and Adz had (Michigan and Seven Swans didn't pull that trick often) only in a different, minimal setting. I can easily imagine him maximizing the sounds of some of these live with a full band.

this album is awesome and devastating. it shouldn't, however, be listened to whilst operating heavy machinery.

sweet vocal filters throughout

"What's the point of singing songs / if they'll never even hear you?"

jesus

Should Have Known Better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJJT00wqlOo

It's kind of perfect, plumbs a new depth of sadness, I listened to it a couple times and realized it was ruining my life and had to turn it off. Real end-of-world, end-of-life music. I've never really been a fan of his lyrics until now but this is too good, too fucked up

― got a long list of ilxors (fgti), Monday, March 9, 2015 7:16 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, it's basically a new Elliott Smith album. someone in one of the ES threads on here said there's "no way out" of his music, i think the same is true of Carrie & Lowell... whether you've lost your parents, or simply waiting... a universal terror. Sufjan is a much more consistent lyricist than Smith though imo, who was brilliant and nuanced ("Pitseleh") just as often as he crossed the line into unformed teenage tantrums (any time he whines "you're such a fucking joke" or "such a fucking pro"). I think we're going to see a lot of artists new and old coming out with records like this in the next couple years, people want sad acoustic guitar music about the end of the world and the inevitable deaths of our loved ones. man. this record is really, really scary too, because it's only a matter of time before everyone has to go through this. earth sucks

otm

I'm writing from my mom's hospital room. She's dying from stomach cancer. It's awful. Her gargling will haunt me. It's terrible. Just terrible.

I think she would like this album too.

I don't view this album as entirely sad. I think there's an underlying optimism that peaks through.

I'm sorry, Allen.

this record is fucking devastating

I've been so taken with it that I've gone back to revisit all his prev records. They are still largely not-for-me but certain tracks I guess I'd missed in the morass, stuff like "Predatory Wasp" I'm like wow how did I miss how good this song was?

Predatory Wasp is one of his very best I think, always liked this performance where it builds into a stormy outro even if that's a bit too long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8nBYZiSc9s

oh yeah "predatory wasp"! i forgot about that one

could probably not get through all of illinois at this point

i could take or leave illinois but michigan is still one of my fav records

I think this could be his best to be honest...It'll be interesting to see if the public reacts to this in the same way they did to "Illinois"

How did the public reacted to Illinois? In Mexico he's very niche so I've no idea, but Illinois was an ambitious pop album, sort of Flaming Lips gone folk. I like this one better but it's hard to see a great deal of people getting excited about this sort of low key album.

illinois was way celebrated

This is amazing. So harrowing, so perfect for my mood tonight. #AlwaysInOurHeartsZaynMalik

(Sorry)

(I made the same joke on facebook...)

Have to admit I haven't listened to it yet because I'm nervous about how it's gonna make me feel. I actually teared up reading one of the advance reviews.

Haha it's funny, it's so devastating as to be almost useless. "When will it be useful to me to feel this way?"

Is this album this year's Benji, in the sense that it is a spare, raw, revealing & super personal folk record by an established indie artist? I haven't heard it yet beyond one song.

Is this album this year's Benji, in the sense that it is a spare, raw, revealing & super personal folk record by an established indie artist? I haven't heard it yet beyond one song.

No. Benji is fantastic, but the songwriting on Carrie & Lowell is better. Moreover, neither are traditional folk albums and unlike Benji, Carrie & Lowell isn’t a singer-songwriter album (it’s electro-acoustic and dynamic). I don’t know if Benji is uniquely revealing. Mark Kozelek is rarely subtle.

I’d also stress it’s wholly sad. Benji was simultaneously funny and sad.

Benji was uniquely revealing cause it felt like unedited cathartic diary entries. But yeah I'm surprised you say this isn't a singer-songwriter album. Going to listen soon.

Every time I see this album title, I think of Law & Order

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/3a/f8/f23af82cc63a5ec313ddb033623943d6.jpg

this record is much much more affecting than benji, to me. but they're not really that comparable, i'd put this up against april or ghosts of the great highway if you really want to compare to kozelek

Oh wow.
Heard Sufjan's new one for the first time today. Guess which album immediately came to my mind?

Cannot wait to hear this again and hopefully adore it as much as 'Benji'

Flaming Lips mentioned upthread too. I reckon I have found some new potential funeral soundtracks, to replace 'Do you Realise'

welp can't be doing this at work. sounds good, though.

this album is a monster

washed over me on first listen, but i was distracted. i suspect this is one of those albums where an attentiveness to the finer nuances pays off.

I dunno guys, the meticulous prettiness and the measured-twice quality of the lyrics kind of mutes the impact for me. It feels too worked-over to really devastate the way I gather it's meant to (and seems to for most)

that said it's a lovely record, my fave of his probably since Seven Swans

really not a fan of his singing, phrasing, and multi-tracked vocals on this so far

a lot of his stuff sounds like church music to me, but this multi-tracked style sounds like a congregation. it all works for me on most of this one.

Man, this album is devastating. I'm kinda shocked this isn't getting more discussion here. I'm not the biggest Sufjan fan - I typically like about 3 or 4 songs per album. But this album is different somehow. It's probably just that it has less of a twee feel to it, overall. I like him enough to give at least one listen to anything he releases, but this is by faaaaaarr my favorite album of his; my favorite album of the year, so far.

I feel the same way. I have too much to say which I can't really say right about this record which is why I haven't posted yet. I have a mother of a certain age who has perhaps not too long to live and I think about that day after day. This record has had a cathartic effect on me and really helped me to think about that in advance. I'd thank Sufjam Stevens for that if I could.

Excuse the typo.

Some part of me was lost in your sleeve
Where you hid your cigarettes.

Is my favourite line from the record.

Eugene is the key to the record, for me at a least.

and he called me subaru

I saw him live a few weeks ago and he played all of this; it was so heavy and moving. He played out blue bucket of gold for 10+ minutes

oh, be near me, tired old mare.

We're all gonna die

Ain't that some shit

this is definitely one of my favorite albums of the 2010s.

it's devastating but also quietly inspirational, just because it is so good/carefully assembled, which is itself inspiring to me. i never would have thought he was capable of something so cohesive and restrained

To me it's more of a lesson in dealing with something awful without avoiding the awfulness of it while also acknowledging the weird beauty of the details contained therein. It quite concretely says this bad thing and this bad thing happened and let's not move away from that but use it in order to heal. Does that make sense? I'm slightly drunk but it makes sense to me.

It's part of the obviousness of, for example, saying "we're all going to die" while appreciating that obvious thought stated so plainly.

"I should've wrote a letter"

(This is the only album of his ive heard from start to finish, fwiw, I haven't even heard individual songs from most of them)

imo, Michigan, Seven Swans and Illinois are all almost as good or better than C&L

i've probably said this upthread somewhere but dude's a genius

afaic the track Romulus beats anything on C&L. Easily.

Once when our mother called,
She had a voice of last year's cough.
We passed around the phone,
Sharing a word about Oregon.
When my turn came, I was ashamed.
When my turn came, I was ashamed.

(i like C&L just fine, but by no means Sufjan's best)

I should clarify my xpost: I think Carrie & Lowell is *incredible*. I just think those other three are, too, esp. Michigan.

this is very good, needed to wait til fall to listen to it

Fall, death, and a good latte to set the mood.

Nothing sets the mood for road suicide like deciduous fall colors and a visit to the dentist.

mmm, pumpkin spice

I actually meant because my depressive tendencies usually start to come out around this time of year

Haha <3

this album is great, I agree, and I did not seriously think you meant it that way.

no it's cool, I lol'd

did any of u see the current tour? considering buying tixxx

Heard only ecstatic reports from friends.

I actively hated/hate Illinois and haven't given this guy's music a chance since but goon tie told me "no seriously this new one" and I have to admit it's great

I saw him in April and it was absolutely wonderful, don't miss it!

It's interesting to me how he previously seemed to mostly make records that were dressed up in ironic kitsch but sad underneath and now he just made a sad record and it's better.

I saw this guy live back in 2003 or 2004. I remember it was kind of a peak time of being disillusioned with America, and this guy stood up there dressed like a boy scout and sang an absolutely gorgeous rendition of the Star Spangled Banner (or 'My Country Tis of Thee', or something ha). It was p compelling.

It's interesting to me how he previously seemed to mostly make records that were dressed up in ironic kitsch but sad underneath and now he just made a sad record and it's better.

― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Tuesday, October 27, 2015 8:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Good post. I've always failed to connect with his work because the prettiness of it got in the way, for me. Until now.

This is one of the artists that I think ILM always makes fun of since it gets thrown with the lol indie audience. I don't know how much Carrie & Lowell will change your perspective on him but he's been doing this sort of thing since he started. Michigan and Seven Swans are great records in this sad vein.
Illinois was probably a more popular album and that one is certainly more unsophisticated due to the amount of needless orchestration and maximalism, let alone the ridiculous costumes... I assume that's the record most people think about when they think of Sufjan and that's the reason why they throw so much shit at him, but even on that album there were some gems like 'John Wayne Gacy' and 'Casimir Pulaski Day'.

Also forgot 'Concerning the UFO Sighting Near Highland', that's a great piano riff.

^^ OTM imo

really strongly dislike that John Wayne Gacy song

ugh yes. the Illinois record is basically "chicago" and "casimir pulaski day"

oh man, "Jacksonville", "The Man From Metropolis Steals Our Hearts", and "The Tallest somethingorother" are all great too. I still think the album's great. y'all need to stop pickin on Sufjan.

sufjan, contrapuntal madness, 'BQE', 20+ minute long songs, and all, is on par with steven wilson in quality prog-outs. wilson hasn't come near pulling off something as emotionally devastating as 'carrie & lowell' though

really strongly dislike that John Wayne Gacy song

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, October 28, 2015 5:55 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this song really is absurd

I kinda love to hate read this, though: http://genius.com/Sufjan-stevens-john-wayne-gacy-jr-lyrics/

I can't really deal with the Gacy song, but man Seven Swans is so good, doesn't have the ornamentation that can make Illinoise a slog. It holds back on anything over-the-top until the climax of the title track, and then it totally works.

the one about the wasp is really great

^probably my favourite on Illinois

agree re Seven Swans. much stronger overall than the "state" records, tho "romulus," "chicago" and "casimir pulaski day" are my touchstone tracks.

Additional note: Am I crazy if I believe Seven Swans is indebted to Steve Reich? The opening three songs specially: 'In the devil's territory', 'all the trees in the field' and 'dress looks nice on you' are all built on top of banjo/guitar patterns that remind me strongly of Reich.

wait, what's so bad about the Gacy song?

your love light passes through completely, on the willow

And in my best behavior
I am really just like him
Look beneath the floor boards
For the secrets I have hid

this is one of the most narcissistic acts of writing in the history of song. feeling kinda shitty about how you are as a person and moping about it is not actually "just like" mass fucking murder and it's really a bad look to even suggest it

You must remember two things: Sufjan is a born again Christian and it permeates most of his lyrics and he's focusing on Gacy's childhood. Sure, a song condemning such a horrific person would be more apt but from Sufjan's scope he's reminding us about the belief that all men are sinful and unworthy of god unless they repent. Gacy's troubled childhood is also at the center of the song so he might also be trying to express how people turn bad by nurture and it can't be controlled.

So, point is, from a Christian point of view we're all equals. As capable of evil and good as any other person and as deserving of forgiveness no matter how bad our sins.

Not my personal belief but that's the context I think.

also he is a murderer

of Christmas songs

this is one of the most narcissistic acts of writing in the history of song. feeling kinda shitty about how you are as a person and moping about it is not actually "just like" mass fucking murder and it's really a bad look to even suggest it

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi)

doesn't bother me at all, but i do appreciate the explanation!

Moka i think for the most part posters itt "get it;" just find it obtuse and unsuccessful.

There's a connection somewhat to 'A good man is hard to find' which is based on the short story with the same name and is written from the Misfit's pov. It's a much better song but it seems to be a fixation of his. Faith as a burden.

I have a good friend who belongs to a charismatic christian church* and he is totally OK with the closing stanza of John Wayne Gacy, saying that it is absolutely the correct position in the eyes of god and the polar opposite of narcissism. I think it's fucking bonkers, but whatever.

I'm still waiting for the right time to listen to Carrie and Lowell.

*we agree on pretty much everything else. After several too many heated conversations about religion, we just don't discuss it any more.

Identifying with the most revolting kind of sinner in the name of Christian humility seems like the opposite of narcissistic. It is, however, problematic in that this kind of thinking is exactly the sort of thing that has inculcated self loathing among Christians through the centuries.

It's also a view that has tended to be pushed as a form of social control

In some ways, though, the hate the sin not the sinner/who among us is blameless? etc ethos is the main thing I've carried with me from my Catholic upbringing. At its best, this helps me be more patient and also to consider other people's circumstances. At its worst, it causes me to make excuses for others and tolerate being treated like garbage. All ethical systems have their holes

Identifying with the most revolting kind of sinner in the name of Christian humility seems like the opposite of narcissistic.

it's picking the big garish sinner and saying "I'm like him in that I too have things I wouldn't admit to others" that's kinda gross imo. like, we all have some shit we're ashamed of, but no, in fact, being a fallen human is not the same as murdering a lot of kids and there isn't a coherent theology that makes such a claim either

Then he's inadvertently exposing a great flaw in the Christian belief system.

I think he's paraphrasing the Nihilist Spasm Band: "So you think the CN Tower is the world's tallest freestanding structure? What about me?"

xp we've finally found one

"Identifying with the most revolting kind of sinner in the name of Christian humility seems like the opposite of narcissistic. It is, however, problematic in that this kind of thinking is exactly the sort of thing that has inculcated self loathing among Christians through the centuries."

Yeah but being in that state of self loathing isn't a right state of place for a Christian to be. You identify yourself as a sinner, but you are then saved from the self-loathing through the realisation that Jesus forgave and died for you in that state, and so the Love of God overcomes the self-loathing and all is set right.

The problem comes when the dichotomy of Salvation/Sinfulness is out of balance in a believers life. When a Christian forget's their sinfulness, that's when the holier-than-thou, better-than-all-those-sinners Christian comes out. And when a Christians forgets the Salvation (or doesn't yet know their salvation), that's when the terrible, depressing self-loathing, Christian comes out.

Every Christian has to make sure these are in balance, and I see the whole song as Sufjan writing to himself, keeping himself in check, remembering his sinfulness, not as to dwell on it in a self-loathing way, but to humble himself and guard himself from a holier-than-though mentality.
Whether he should have used an actual historical event to get across that point, that's another story.

I was in a clothes shop the other day and this album was playing. Everyone looked pretty glum.

He is on a five amazing album run, in my opinion, Michigan onwards it's all very good. There a very few (any ?) contemporary artists on such a run.

I can think of one artist on a 24 amazing books run

and this was released after Michigan
http://991.com/gallery_180x180/Sufjan-Stevens-Songs-For-Christm-383531-991.jpg

kanye

Fourth of July really is a tearjerker

I've never really considered myself a fan of this guy, but this album is totally blowing me away.

not carrie and lowell but this early demo version of chicago was recently released. what a lovely song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRsiNX9LR8

I can think of one artist on a 24 amazing books run

― NATION: ? ? ? (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, November 2, 2015 7:24 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's like he was waiting for the right moment, patiently, for years after creating this username

carrie & lowell, i think, has become one of my top 10 or 15 favorite albums of all time.

it's fantastic. it reminds me of andrew bird's weather systems and of montreal's sunlandic twins in totally dialing up my appreciation for someone's talent

this album is so good that I feel bad about my dn. then again, this record is great in part because he didn't have to name drop a state bird into poignant moments.

TIP: Don't listen to "The Only Thing" on public transit while reading someone else's suicide note (they found the note writer, he's fine now AFAIK)

It's a beautiful album - my favourite from last year. Took me by surprise, as not previously a fan at all.

Jesus christ this album.

^ I know, right?

The Carrie & Lowell outtakes compilation The Greatest Gift was supposed to be out by now, but apparently they delayed it until November. Here is a (heartbreaking) preview track, "Wallowa Lake Monster". Sufjan has also contributed three songs to the Call Me by Your Name OST, out on Friday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwo_Ucs-wc4

01 Wallowa Lake Monster
02 Drawn to the Blood (Sufjan Stevens remix)
03 Death with Dignity (Helado Negro remix)
04 John My Beloved (iPhone demo)
05 Drawn to the Blood (fingerpicking version)
06 The Greatest Gift
07 Exploding Whale (Doveman remix)
08 All of Me Wants All of You (Helado Negro remix)
09 Fourth of July (900X remix)
10 The Hidden River of My Life
11 City of Roses

So this Tonya Harding song is pretty great

The blog post he wrote about it is good too. I like how he has an interest in “larger than life” American figures. A classic subject for a folk musician.

http://asthmatickitty.com/tonya-harding/

should've known better is all time

incredible song, thank you treeship|!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=PUvVjWR3zTQ

Kid is special

This song rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAcn32Usjy0

the two new songs are nice, but this one's especially great. i'd really love a whole album that sounds like this, it's basically exactly where i wanted him to go after the last two albums.

like i'm absolutely here for chill synthpop sufjan with kinda sophisti-vibes and extended guitar solos

I've preordered this so it better not suck

https://theascension.sufjan.com/

so is this gonna be his Wisconsin album or.....

btw kinda funny to see this guy have a little resurgence thanks to "The Politician" which uses "Chicago" as its opening theme, I've watched only one episode but you can't pick a more perfect opening song than that. I'm guessing that's not gonna make anyone watch it though

the first single is "America" so presumably that will cover all remaining states xp

"America" drops July 3... cute!

I guess nobody was talking about "Aporia" earlier this year but it's really nice

general vibe i get from the art & tracklist makes me hopeful it's going to be more of an adz-style proggy synth freakout than folk album

interestingly "america" comes with b-side "my rajneesh"

I've preordered this so it better not suck

Not a chance.

huh "my rajneesh" is 10 minutes! excited for more sufjan epics

and the a side is 12:30

just lookin at the cues here this feels like it's gonna be a follow up to Age of Adz

Hope so...easily my favourite of his albums.

yea I think all his albums are great, but great in the Radiohead sense of the word, where I respect them a lot but don't really want to listen to them often...but if I do reach for one it's usually that one

i didn't really get age of adz when it came out but it's since become easily my favourite of his. second favourite is carrie & lowell but the live album from that tour is even better. that tour was one of the best shows i've ever seen

I really hope the title is a deliberate reference to Glenn Branca :)

I kind of assumed as much and it would be amazing if he incorporated some Branca-isms into this one

I didn't like The Age of Adz. Carrie and Lowell was ok

his previous albums - Michigan, Seven Swans, Illinois - were his best imo

I didn't like AoA at the time but it's gown on me a lot over time

Age of Adz is easily my favorite album of his -- art imitates life after all! Carrie and Lowell comes at a close second

I agree with Dan except that Carrie and Lowell is a masterpiece. I would like to join the crew who love AoA, I've tried quite a few times indeed, but I will keep at it.

Apparently the new one is inspired by Ariana Grande, Janet Jackson, “eighties and early nineties jams” and features “Prophet synthesizers and Tempest drum machines,” according to a press release that was put up by mistake (and almost immediately taken down).

i mean, you're speaking my language there

I feel like "fantastic" or "terrible" are really the two possible outcomes on this one

that pretty much confirms it's closer to adz than anything else he's done before and i couldn't be more excited

I saw the Adz tour here, and the place was very sold out with people that pretty clearly only knew him from Illinois. I'm not even sure the Adz album had come out yet! Anyway, people were generally patient but I could tell they were not really having it. He did a couple Illinois songs for the encore and they all went nuts, then went home.

someone listen to "america" and tell me if it's any good, I have a weird hangup about not wanting to hear closing tracks in advance

hearing reports that it's great and very adz-y

(i have a similar hangup simon but i may check it anyway)

it's adz-y but even more so it's a continuation of the synth-y arrangements from the C&L tour (the live version of "all of me wants all of you" etc.) and it's great

the song is only about 7 minutes long, the rest is an ambient outro so don't expect a mini "impossible soul" or anything

"my rajneesh" has leaked a week early too and it's way adz-ier than "america" and it's even better!

"my rajneesh" is just immense, would have been one of the best tracks on adz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn7_JpmhZP0

I love him

okay if that's an outtake then this might be the greatest album ever made

Fantastic song

Both these songs are a triumph of production/mixing... somehow Sufjan/his mixing engineer managed to find the sweet spot where super-saturated arrangements become pastel instead of intrusive/annoying. All his finicky tendencies are rendered gorgeous, these are already my favourite songs of his. The build at 7:00 on "My Rajneesh" with the backwards drums, trombone solo, dive-bomb synths, goddammit, the intensely beautiful ending, I am shaken

i've played 'rajneesh' four times already this morning, it's quite something.

Love both tracks but I understand why he left "My Rajneesh" off the new record since it's so Adz-like and heavily based on "Vesuvius".

i'm guessing it also just didn't fit thematically with whatever he's going for on this album, since it was written during the C&L sessions and fits in with the originally planned Oregon theme for that album.

it's certainly one of the best things he's ever done, probably a top 5 sufjan track for me. it's fascinating how it manages to seamlessly transition from the acoustic first section to the Adz-y synth bombast

My Rajneesh is extraordinary

it really is. i wish it was 10 minutes longer

I'm more excited about America as an album teaser than I would have been with My Rajneesh. I have no idea what the rest of an album featuring America sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fCdZzsP4U0

this one's a little more underwhelming, very much what i'd expect from sufjan making a synthpop track but nothing to really elevate it to the standard of his best work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOstc1ZfDN4

this one's much better than "video game". the same style just executed far far better (also with a long instrumental intro)

new album is fine but i don't think it's a masterpiece on the level of his last two. it's a bit too samey for how long it is but i do really like "make me an offer i cannot refuse" and "tell me you love me"

it's very clear why "my rajneesh" wouldn't have fit on the album but it's significantly better than anything on it. even "with my whole heart" from last year is very similar in sound to the album but much stronger and has a little more going on than most of the album

First impression on the new album is that there’s a dissonance between the intended scope and the sound of it. It’s an album of big musical ideas but meager sound palette and production... and I don’t feel it’s an aesthetic choice. It sounds outdated but not on purpose.

he said jam & lewis' production (specifically rhythm nation) was a big influence on this album but i don't really hear that at all, there's none of their energy at all. i'm still enjoying the album but he's capable of so much better, especially when you compare to when he's worked with this sort of sound palette before to much better effect ("i walked", the live version of "all of me wants all of you", "with my whole heart" etc.)

lyrically he's deliberately writing in cliche a lot of the time here but i don't think he's really managed to get anything interesting out of that either which is a shame

full live film here btw

https://vimeo.com/215185438

Surprised by the huge Boards of Canada lift in the middle section of "Die Happy". I wonder if they will take action?

which track does he lift?

I can't put my finger on it yet, it's got a very similar chord sequence and tonal structure to something from the MHTRTC era, I'll do some listening and see if I can figure it out.

idk why but this album is making me laugh a lot rn, love Sufjan but there's something ridiculous about him

It's definitely goofy in parts. (That's a compliment!)

It almost certainly doesn't need to be 80 minutes long, but there's a lot to like here.

I don't mind someone who pokes their head out once every presidential administration making maxed-out albums like this but yes the songs all kinda blend together. I agree that "My Rajneesh" is better than anything on here. also I think Age of Adz accomplishes most of what this one goes for in a more effective way. but its still pretty good

props to Sufjan for (acc to his publicist) snubbing Rick Rubin a few years back. smart man!

nope - got it - the BoC track I hear in "Die Happy" is "'84 Pontiac Dream":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf5NP-WLGTw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDcgYOOSATY

to think i was acting like a believer / when i was just angry and depressed

😪

i hear a similar style to "84 pontiac dream" in "die happy" but i'm not sure it's a direct rip

i think i'd be into this album much more if it were half the length - unlike illinois and age of adz it just doesn't have enough ideas to sustain its very lengthy runtime

yeah "rip" was a bit of a hot take, but it was definitely a surprise

yeah, so far i like it but am a little disappointed. after "my rajneesh" i was expecting him to drop a masterpiece.

it's much more pared down than i expected. it's not at all maximalist like age of adz.

the title track is really magnificent to be honest. there is more here for a listener like me -- someone who loves the confessional side of carrie & lowell, who "relates" to him -- than someone interested in the sonic inventiveness of age of adz

age of adz is my favourite not only musically but lyrically too. there's a few themes that run through that album (difficulties with communication in relationships, the apocalypse, royal robertson, his own health struggles,etc.) that he ties together wonderfully. it's not as explicitly confessional as carrie & lowell but it's the one i 'relate' the most to

on the other hand this one feels unusually impersonal for him a lot of the time

he talks about that in this interview actually:
https://www.thefader.com/2020/09/25/sufjan-stevens-the-ascension-interview-2020-asthmatic-kitty

I was definitely less focused on myself and my person, my story, my narrative. I got rid of all the idioms of narrative folk songwriting. I wanted things to feel more universal and more generic, in a way. I embraced the use of cliches and catchphrases and idioms and colloquialisms. All that stuff started to like become the impetus for the songs, the meanings behind the songs. I kind of wanted to speak to the lowest common denominator. I wanted the songs to keep moving and be simple on the surface and to feel accessible in a way, as much as I'm able to do it because like even at my most poppiest, I'm a far cry from what's being played on the radio right now. That was all really, really intentional.

I don't feel like I'm generally participating in the pop vernacular too much — I feel like I'm kind of outside of that practice, so it felt really exciting to embrace it and make it the central part of the characteristic in terms of the lyric writing. I've been making records for so long and I've been producing so much work and writing so much original music. After a while I got exhausted by sort of my habits and tropes. I felt like I needed to get out of myself.

I also gave myself a license to not have any new ideas. Sometimes I feel like you just need to appropriate an old idea or preexisting one and make it your own. The songwriting was a process of appropriating cliches and commands and catchphrases and building them into a larger, deeper, more meaningful, more philosophical conversation about our world and crisis and politics and love. All that stuff is there, and obviously it's my point of view and my imprint and authorship is all over this because I did everything, but in spite of all that, I wanted to take myself out of it narratively and think more about the listener, the consumer.

i don't think the end result of that was particularly interesting though and it mostly just feels like he's avoiding his strengths as a writer. like, he hasn't really managed to wring any depth out of those sort of cliches as much as he's tried, and they don't have the sort of emotional backing here that's what can make those sort of cliches work in a more pop context. i find it most engaging lyrically when he slips back into a more typically sufjan mode such as on the title track.

I could be approaching this album from entirely the wrong angle, but it seems to me like the production choices here are aiming for and not quite nailing that 'fragile threads of melody float on the surface of a violently churning sea of electronic noise' aesthetic, that was executed so well on Low's past two albums. That said, I'm still feeling my way through, and I find new details to appreciate as I move between different listening environments. Last night in the car, it was the noise gate closing hard to cut off the reverb tails on the "Come on baby give me some sugar" background vox and create this heady fake tremolo effect; then on the speakers at home, the tuned percussion (or tuned percussion synth patch) playing long tumbling lines under the vocal refrain in "America" when it returns around the 5:45 mark.

I still think "My Rajneesh" is a better song than a lot of what made the album, and also has a WAY more interesting arrangement that pairs the post-dubstep air raid siren electronic stuff with the more classically Sufjanesque palette of choral vox, recorder, brass fanfare, glockenspiel ostinatos, etc.

Really digging the Kid A-meets-Double Negative vibe of "Landslide"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltH3rI-G4n8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ymTg1V40A

new folk album A Beginner's Mind out 24 September, in collaboration with Angelo De Augustine, who seems to be something of a protege of his?

pleasant songs, very much in line with the sound of Carrie & Lowell. surprisingly soon for a new song-based album of his too

oh my god the cover art is so bad

cover art is by Daniel Anuum Jasper, Ghanaian movie poster painter: https://dandano.org/2019/06/17/short-wave-daniel-anum-jasper-pioneer-of-hand-painted-movie-posters-ep-002/

lmao ok I was gonna say that style seemed familiar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjHG25QwYeg

he's back in lush singer-songwriter mode for javelin out october 6. the lead single is fine though i hope he can do better than just 'fine' when the ascension & a beginner's mind were both pretty much just that

I liked the single better than “fine”

yeah, this is really nice

it is lovely and all but i think it's just he has to do more than this to really move me these days - it's a good sufjan song but not a great one. he's never sounded quite as lush as this before but it all feels very familiar, he's really honing in on the idea of his sound i guess. it reminds me most of all delighted people which fits given the cover art, but even then it's the idea of all delighted people more than what it actually is?

also ultimately i like him more when he gets weirder!

i hope he's going to tour this one because it's been so long

apparently there's one 8 minute epic on this so i'll look forward to that

it's not as specific as his absolute best work, but still a great, swoon-worthy melody and i always like it when he perks up with this kind of rollicking 6/8 feel (going all the way back to "the upper peninsula"...tho that one might be a straight 3/4 now that i think about it)

he's confirmed to be not touring which is a shame but i can hardly blame him for not wanting to given the state of things

too bad, i got one of those woodcut maps of the great lakes that twitter keeps advertising and was looking forward to throwing it at him onstage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLeCIRC4taY

I had no idea he was so sick he can't even walk.

What to know about Sufjan Stevens’s Guillain-Barré syndrome diagnosis

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/09/20/sufjan-stevens-guillain-barre-syndrome/

Yeah, his statement was pretty understated considering he says it may take him up to a year before he can walk again xp

ok first track on javelin totally delivers

great album, definitely a 'return to form', feels like his entire career all mixed together. idk if anything here is quite up with the best he's ever done and it isn't emotionally devastating in the way that c&l is or as directly moving as i find age of adz, but "shit talk" is pretty wonderful and "goodbye evergreen" feels like what the ascension was reaching for but didn't quite achieve. the pre-release tracks that felt a bit by-numbers work much better in the context of the album even though i'm pretty familiar with his bag of tricks on those - some of the others are a bit bolder or cover new combinations of old ideas, so the more familiar tracks fit in nicely.

also feels like a continuation of the c&l tour (very welcome!) with the lush acoustic arrangements that often slowly morph into something more electronic. just unfortunately lacking in wild keyboard solos

yeah i think this is probably second only to adz in his discography, a total triumph

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyEELYnOOg0/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

I have been carrying around an indescribable grief since this happened, and a feeling of inability to “talk about it”, out of respect for Sufjan’s privacy. I’d known Evans for fifteen years and it cannot be understated as to what a brilliant friend he was, just the greatest man I’ve ever known. All the songs I’ve heard from Javelin have had this added weight with the knowledge of this and I feel enormous relief that Sufjan has elected to mention it publicly. RIP Evans I love you

absolutely heartbreaking

truly gutting. the album is beautiful. sorry for your loss, fgti

oh damn, he's had an incredibly rough year.

sorry for your loss fgti

that's dreadful, so much loss

the rough trade version has bonus disc with 5 previously unreleased songs that all appear to be from the c&l sessions, from when he was trying to make an oregon album

Absolutely beautiful album and yes, it seems to reference various moments from his discography, but sound- and arrangement-wise it reminds me of the All Delighted People EP and the second set of Christmas songs the most. And ufo's comparison to the C&L live versions is spot on, too.

"Will Anybody Ever Love Me", "Shit Talk" and "Goodbye Evergreen" keep turning me into a sobbing mess during my commute, especially now that he has shared the heartbreaking circumstances surrounding the record.

i've been going back to the ascension a bit now and it's frustrating because it feels very close to being very good but just doesn't quite get there. the main problem is just it's too long! he manages to get a fair bit of variety out of a limited set of synths & drum machines but illinois & age of adz could get away with being 80 minutes long by having maximalist sound palettes bursting with ideas which the ascension just doesn't have enough to sustain interest for that long. the songs don't consistently hit the same highs he usually does (though "make me an offer i cannot refuse" and "tell me you love me" are top tier), but the only real dud is "video game" having a really underwritten chorus (it would have been so good with a proper chorus there but no!).

he kept talking about rhythm nation as a key influence in interviews and i finally do hear that in the drum programming, but the issue is that the drums here don't hit anywhere near as hard, so it doesn't give the same feeling at all. i wish he had gone for hard hitting new jack swing drums, that would have been really cool. i feel a bit better about the lyrics now than i did 3 years ago but attempting to wring depth out of cliche still isn't really playing to his strengths.

if it had been cut down to the following i think it would have been a very good album even though it still wouldn't be his best:

make me an offer i cannot refuse
run away with me
tell me you love me
die happy
ativan
landslide
gilgamesh
sugar
the ascension
america

javelin though is just astounding, i would say that pretty much all of it is up with his very best. nearly every track has a brilliant shift comparable to a more subtle version of the moment when the keyboards appear in "should have known better". i'm happy to say all sorts of hyperbolic things like calling him the best musician of the last 20+ years now

i'm not sold on the whole album at all, not so much my thing

but

'goodbye evergreen' is sensational

that's about what i expected

lol i am nothing if not predictable

might be in my top 5 songs of the year, it's up there

i also liked the second track, you were right, i am Adz-pilled but beyond that find it hard to connect. damaged and spoilt by hypergarbage

devastated anew by this record today. i can't imagine listening to it while actually grieving though, yeesh. i'm enough of a puddle as it is.

I haven't listened to anything from him since "Adz," and I can't really remember that one, but my wife was playing him today and it was all more recent stuff I was unfamiliar with and it was all so pretty/sad. I really need to catch up. Also didn't realize/notice he hadn't toured in, like, 6 years? More?

his last solo tour was for carrie & lowell in 2015/16, but he did play a few shows for planetarium in 2017. it's been a while, yeah. his next album (the ascension) came out mid-pandemic so it wasn't at all surprising he didn't tour that, and now he's recovering from a very serious illness that means there's no possibility of touring the new album.

hopefully he will tour again when he's recovered though, the show i saw last tour was one of the best i've ever seen