Kanye West -- The Life Of Pablo (he'll probably change it several times after it's released too)

Let's just get the placeholder thread going at least.

Kanye - better producer than mccartney, better singer tHan mccartney, better lyricist than mccartney, better performer than mccartney, more interesting person than mccartney. Other than that I'm sure 72 year old person will add so much to this record

otm

Having a hard time imagining this will be any good.

thread's off to a smashing start

Better singer than McCartney? What?

You guys get that autotuning yourself onto the correct pitch doesn't make you an amazing singer, right?

Have you heard McCartney sing lately?

Have you heard Kanye sing lately?

Generation Migos has no other priorities besides taking the Beatles down a peg

Anyway, you don't go to Paul McCartney for his production skills, his singing, his lyrics, his stage presence or his persona. You go because you want to try and cement your credibility with a certain type of listener.

Xp A noble pursuit
Also gonna stop saying mille and start saying generation migos thank you

Millenials *

Lol kanye cant sing for shit

Anyway, you don't go to Paul McCartney for his production skills, his singing, his lyrics, his stage presence or his persona. You go because you want to try and cement your credibility with a certain type of listener.

Or ... if you're Kanye West and you decide you want to incorporate some rock into what you're doing, you don't go to pull in session musicians or Radiohead or whatever. You pull in a fucking Beatle because only the best is good enough for Ye.

intrigued by the idea of kanye's ram

Kanye Migos - better producer than mccartney, better singer tHan mccartney, better lyricist than mccartney, better performer than mccartney, more interesting person than mccartney. Other than that I'm sure 72 year old person will add so much to this record

― the fuckin catalina wine mixer (sleepingbag), Sunday, January 25, 2015 10:25 AM Bookmark

anyway i kinda like "fourfiveseconds"

Lol kanye cant sing for shit

and his lyrics are all like "golden diamonds coming out my dick come have a splash" which is hardly like the beatles

Be funny if it was just a Kanye record with old Macca singing all the hooks, sped up or no.

it's uh better than that piano tinkle released a few weeks ago, and it's a novelty to hear Rihanna in a spare setting. Other than that, not much to say.

intrigued by the idea of kanye's ram

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson)

wasn't that My Boring Dull Twaddle Fantasies?

Lyrically I think they're on par/a good match tbh. I predict a lot of poorly formed semi-nonsensical metaphors.

I'm imagining the awesomeness of "Press" with Kanye producing it.

"FourFiveSeconds" is fucking terrible, "jaunty" in the worst way possible. The fact that it's apparently going to be on both Rihanna's and Kanye's albums is depressing

In a way this is the most audience trolling thing Kanye could do, kinda awesome

Maybe they just like each other, I could see that

this song is dope, rihanna sounds great after the first note

also unlike "only one" this is actually, like, a written song

but then you hear the lyrics of this song

also rihanna has done some acoustic songs before, many of which have been good, so this doesn't seem as purposefully left field as "only one"

it's maybe lowkey for her first official single in a 18 months or whatever but it's don't think it would be insane to have heard this song done by stargate or whatever instead of paul mccartney

kanye's parts are inane and this would be better w/o him but i think the chorus lyrics really work

i like the idea of kanye hanging up his villain hat. it's time. this isn't to say that the music that comes out of this move isn't going to be extremely boring

i'm most interested in who wrote this hook, because it feels a bi too pop for kanye and rihanna doesn't work without superstar writers anyway

i guess it was dallas austin if he was listed in the itunes credits but it doesn't seem like anyone has reported that as fact yet

not ty $?

"Update: According to Rolling Stone, a rep for West says McCartney did not co-produce all of West’s album."

so much for that

not ty $?

― r|t|c, Sunday, January 25, 2015 6:52 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah true

i got the sense from his interview about the song that he just did vocals but maybe! that would be cool

Is this song actually streaming ANYWHERE online right now? Can't find it.

YouTube has it.

It this thing even definitely for Kanye's record though? I keep seeing it credited as Rihanna f. Kanye & Macca, was just wondering.

Nevermind, no it's not there anymore. Just a bunch of fake Beatles loops tagged as it.

rip thred, u were about four five seconds from mattering

Time for a Yeezus Grey Album.

ever since this collaboration started i've fantasized about Kanye and Paul bonding over a mutual hatred of The Grey Album

the total lack of percussion on either of these songs is the most interesting thing about them to me in that they so painfully sound like they're missing a rhythm track. a bunch of rando soundcloud producers have thrown drums on "Only One" and one of the R&B stations in D.C. is now playing one of those remixes as if it's the real song, with the most embarrassingly on-the-nose College Dropout-era Kanye drums, it's irritating but also more enjoyable than the original. can't see "FourFiveSeconds" really doing much unless there's a version with drums.

I don't care about the Beatles but saying McCartney is a worse singer than Kanye is just wrong.

Probably right about the rest.

not sure if i can believe sir paul has done a whole album with kanye, though id be interested to hear it (only one should never have been released though - i have only heard it once, but it was painful to listen to - it should be heard Only Once, ho ho). i dont know if this is kanye hanging up his villain hat - to me, its half him doing an MJ and trying to please critics/the establishment ('i want in', 'i'm legit', etc), but its also him daring haters/detractors by saying, 'look i can get a beatle! look at me now!' like, it was cool that jay-z worked with jack white (on boring music) and linkin park and whoever else, but kanye went back and got a BEATLE. if elvis was alive, im pretty sure kanye would have his sights set on him too.

4 5 seconds is great.

"woke up an optimist" - such a great verse opening.

we only got 4 5 seconds to save the world!

did Jay-Z and Jack White actually release anything together? i just remember reports they were working together and then JW saying that Jay didn't like it and they probably wouldn't release it

the total lack of percussion on either of these songs is the most interesting thing about them to me in that they so painfully sound like they're missing a rhythm track... can't see "FourFiveSeconds" really doing much unless there's a version with drums.

― diddybops 67 (120.2)(source field mix) (some dude), Sunday, January 25, 2015 8:05 PM (Yesterday)

version of "4 5 seconds" floating around has to be a demo, though, right? a deliberately slight deep cut at most.

Paul McCartney not esp. renowned for his productions skills?

those Wings songs are often nothing BUT production skillz

Maybe the thread title should be changed if every other post is gonna be about Paul producing the album when that announcement has already been corrected

I was thinking that myself but then I remembered how the supposed release date of Yeezus was first denied and then turned out to be accurate, so who the fuck knows. I'll edit it a bit, though.

kanye HAS to realize these songs are unsalable as pop in 2015, right? i was shocked when he was actually crestfallen that yeezus had no real hit singles...but here he has to realize the whole world isn't goign to be singing "four five seconds." right?

My money is on the two formally released songs being "bonus tracks."

sorta interesting that kanye is giving mccartney this huge promo push but daft punk were silent contributors to yeezus

Given there was Daft Punk overload at the time, presumably a way to separate it out from that slipstream?

Daft Punk were in the video for "Stronger" and them being sampled on a rap hit was a semi-big deal in 2007. them being among a bazillion co-producers on an album that dropped right after their own comeback album not really a big deal. definitely not as big a deal as anything involving a Beatle.

i disagree!

i mean mccartney isn't actually doing anything on these songs. if he wasn't in the promo pics and someone was like "yeah mccartney strummed the acoustic guitar on this track" people would be like "oh hmm that's nice"

yeah but Kanye clearly doesn't see it that way, is what i mean

as far as hypebeasting, having Paul on this album is analogous to him calling in favors to get Ludacris on his first album. he's all about whatever feature puts him on another level.

still salty that luda didn't get a verse on that song

version of "4 5 seconds" floating around has to be a demo, though, right? a deliberately slight deep cut at most.

― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Monday, January 26, 2015 7:51 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dog it's not a demo

woops kanye west let out another 'demo'!

woof

There's a fine line between chaos and creation.

one man's flaming pie is another man's kisses on the bottom

one requires penicillin, the other jail time

We have...something? Album title?

https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/559786944033333248

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8TDQkECYAAwWLc.jpg:large

Umm, that's for Big Sean.

Paul McCartney's working with everyone these days!

Big Sean Lennon

Calls to John Lennon and George Harrison's offices not returned.

um, image is very "Batman Begins"

Seriously I wish he'd stuck with "Made In Florence"

lolll yea it's so chris nolan-y

fortunately, it's big sean getting stuck with it and not 'ye

Big Sean probably came up with it

I heard "Four Five Seconds" on the radio yesterday between Jeremih and something which felt kinda weird.

Kanye's going to be on <i>Ellen</i> this Thursday.

Whoops, wrong formatting code

Anyway, I hope he's using that appearance to talk about the new Big Sean album

Ellen is a better producer than Kanye

jay pharoah's kanye impression vs kate mckinnon's ellen impression

An SNL hosting gig can't be too far off.

For Paul McCartney or Big Sean?
Or Ellen?

To cement his new friendship, Kanye fired a shit at Yoko.

He's dead to me.

I'd like a NEW WORKOUT PLAN poster with Nolan font and stormy sky.

Seriously tho, a Kanye/Yoko collaboration would be way more interesting than Kanye/Paul.

Is "fired a shit" a typo? Please let that be a typo.

fried ain't much better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crxcy5nmaec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE3zJgO-0S4

I don't need no "Hey Jude" for this shit.

No idea how that's escaped Up-the-Arse Corner up till now. (xp)

jay was the one with the shitty yoko lyric

http://genius.com/2238602/Justin-timberlake-murder/Yoko-ono-she-got-that-yoko-ono-you-know-that-shit-that-made-john-lennon-go-solo-know-that-shit-gotta-be-lethal-if-that-pussy-broke-up-the-beatles

i still can't be fucked to listen to this single

kanye's beatles-and-grammys way of thinking about artistic greatness is so boring and sort of shows him up as the opposite of a revolutionary; he cares so deeply about bullshit conservative institutions

First he tried to piss off his rap dude fan base with Yeezus. Now he's trying to piss off ilx.

lex otm

Ye Jude

Kanye's just trying to make us unlike him.

First he tried to piss off his rap dude fan base with Yeezus. Now he's trying to piss off ilx.

"now"

otm

Ilx "should" be pissed off at him since Yeezuz, imo.

This single is better than the last one by a good ways, but it sort of breeze by without leaving a mark. Which means it will probably be wildly popular.

Praying this is not the shape the album will take but some "lol Beatles hijinx outliers" for a bonus disc or something.

fwiw I've heard "Four Five Seconds" twice and have it stuck in my head.

it's an instantly memorable chorus!

it's just a good song

i still can't be fucked to listen to this single

kanye's beatles-and-grammys way of thinking about artistic greatness is so boring and sort of shows him up as the opposite of a revolutionary; he cares so deeply about bullshit conservative institutions

― lex pretend, Monday, January 26, 2015 4:46 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you don't got the answers lex

will the world never be safe from dreadful conservative institutions like paul mccartney

don't think 'paul mccartney' was the conservative institution lex was referring to

don't know if paul mccartney is really adding nearly as much musically as he is adding to the 'branding' package etc

it is interesting that Paul has a feature credit is in the photo accompanying the release of "FourFiveSeconds" but it's apparently the Dirty Projectors guy playing the guitar that is so much more prominent than any of the things Paul is playing

I don't see McCartney's move as cynical; I'm sure he'd pass a lie detector test when confessing he genuinely sought a challenge working with Kanye, but so far the results sound like Kanye could have sought the musical counsel of Duncan Sheik and no one would have noticed the difference.

From a PR standpoint though the collaboration looks like Rolling Stone cover story manna.

Plus: I genuinely don't know the answer, but are McCartney fans -- whoever or whatever they are -- going to buy a Kanye album? It's more likely Kanye fans own Beatles and Wings reissue albums/mp3s.

Lol at the idea that Kanye fans own Wings records en masse.

the ones who read Pitchfork do!

all you gotta do is ask on this very board

I am a Kanye fan who reads Pitchfork and I do not own any Wings records. I can't recall ever seeing anyone my age or younger ever talk about Wings records. Your experience may vary.

yeah i think it's more likely that a boomer Beatles fan saw the 5 star review of MBDTF in Rolling Stone and gave it a spin than that your average Kanye To The forum poster owns Band On The Run

all I meant was that Pitchfork reviews those damn Wings/Paul reissues, and sure as hell there's audience overlap with Kanye's white fans.

xpost

but I'm edging into nobody-I-know-voted-for-Nixon territory

I'd say your average Pitchfork reader is more likely to own RAM than a Wings album.

oh def

Ram is the GOAT rock album, MBDTF is the GOAT hip-hop album, why the need to argue?

no need to argue sounds like a GOAT recorded it

this song's a weaksauce version of "burnin' up" by the jonas brothers

wow i finally heard this and it's not just boring it's total horseshit

Ram is an amazing album. I own Wings and Kanye albums. They're alright I guess.

Lex I don't know why I think it's weird you said horseshit but it feels weird

What happened to the Rick Rubin album?

They're missing a real opportunity for cross-market* success if the album isn't called Bigger Than Yeezus.

*mostly Simpsons fans iirc

Ram x Ham

this chorus is really catchy
seems ok!

this doesn't seem like a million miles from the choruses of taylor switft of a lot of the modern country songs ilx likes

What happened to the Rick Rubin album?

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, January 27, 2015 9:45 AM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he was talking about working w/ Kanye on his next album as little as 6 months ago so he probably is on this album. it's funny how every Kanye album has 50 co-producers but anytime one especially famous one is announced people assume they're gonna be the sole co-pilot for the entire thing.

rick rubin worked on yeezus at basically the absolute possible moment

what did ever happen to jon brion xpost

absolute LAST possible moment

anyway, some dude's point is right ... many known collaborators in a kanye album cycle don't even end up on the record

rick rubin worked on yeezus at basically the absolute possible moment

also probably the most important moment? i hope he's brought in to take a knife to this one too.

kanye made noises about doing more albums after Yeezus in the 40 minutes/10 songs mold and i hope he sticks to that. i'm really over the flabby 75-minute opuses.

im interested in which paul it is that kanye wants to co produce, syrupy paul or more avant-leaning, electronics-happy paul

I'm guessing he wants "was in the Beatles" Paul and will work out the details later

he wants a song of only vocoder 'Jojo's

hen fab

i wish kanye were working with jojo

i'm highly anticipating jojo's album this year and don't especially want kanye near it

if she retains noisecastle iii though >>>>>>>>>>>>

honestly, whether its paul or rick rubin, i dont think kanye is falling off for a while yet. it might appear to betray his inherent conservatism, but hes too contradictory for it to be boring (or be that straightforward as a play for the establishment).

I wish he would get Jim Steinman.

I hate how there is a jojo that is not Jonathon Richman

that would be a cool trading places sequel

this semi-cheesy digital gospel version is an improvement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvDhAmwbSqE

Does McCartney play the keyboard on this too?

"FourFiveSeconds," I mean.

Chorus has a great pedal point! Also, Rihanna's melisma at the end of the bridge is KILLER.

Think so.

Just realized he sings "Hold me back I'm bout to spaz."

xposting I could have sworn Rubin (who swooped in and helped whittle down "Yeezus" to its core) was also working with Kanye to shape up a second album from the same sessions. I guess this could be that one, still, especially if Rick Rubin is more of a consultant than producer (which he sort of is for everyone else, anyway).

I'm deferring to Geir Hongro for opinions on this album.

I'm guessing he wants "was in the Beatles" Paul and will work out the details later

lol DJP

I hate how there is a jojo that is not Jonathon Richman

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:35 PM (Yesterday)

i'm still waiting for jojo trio to happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSUb8ysrLBU

Also, Rihanna's melisma at the end of the bridge is KILLER.

Actually, I meant the one in the MIDDLE of the bridge. The one with the backing vocals. Yes.

Only One video is gorgeous

http://www.kanyewest.com

A Stereogum commenter from today. A part of me really agrees, and hates myself for agreeing:

donnytilla | Posted at 9:37am +13
The new singles reeeeeeally aren’t resonating with me. This is way more in line with what I was hoping for – a blend between yeezus sonics but more generally approachable/straightforward rap.

I can appreciate the new material, but it is SO soft. I’m going to make beatles analogies which are forgivable now that Kanye is putting him on the covers. I think artists hit a lane that resonates with certain people in an optimal way. For me and the beatles, it was the rubber soul – magical mystery era. Granted, those albums were recorded over only a few months, but that style consistently fits best with what I like about the beatles. Let it be is fine, but I’m not listening to it, ever. It just sits in iTunes as part of the canon.

With the clipse, I don’t want to hear about “spending time in your playcloths” or whatever that shit was. I don’t want pharrell happy. Don’t want lil wayne carrying around a guitar. I don’t need big sean ever.

With kanye, I want the bangers. I want the bravado. That 808 slapping the shit out of the song, while being innovative within the parameters. The new material is like some Mad Men Marigold / Paul Rudd Wanderlust type campfire shit. I can get behind Only One as track 10 on a 10 track album, but 4-5 secs is like the target bonus version track 11 that you have to click “Show” to see on wikipedia.

Again I can appreciate the intention and that he has a child now, but I’m not going to start writing reports with pink and green pens when I have a kid, you know? I know what is needed.

For context: http://www.stereogum.com/1734925/hear-a-higher-quality-leak-of-kanye-wests-all-day/mp3s/

already taken down :/

"All Day" seems like a really hilariously unpromising 'return to rappity rap' song for people to hang their hopes on. i'm just assuming there will be better songs on the album even if that's the one that there are leaks off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvA26p6wMYc

i remember the punk band baby guts gave away that 12 inch single at a show to whoever could answer some trivia question about scratch acid

how candyass did "dancing in the dark" seem to long-time bruce fans following nebraska

would Yeezus be his Nebraska or would 808s and Heartrbeaks be his Nebraska..ams;ldfghj;als/fgn ioeuadhjfk tyou know what miccio yr not getting me to waste an hour on this

dude don't kill the messenger, kanye himself has said yeezus was his nebraska and that his next album has to be born in the usa commercially

not saying the new shit is necessarily "dancing in the dark" just that kanye's said born in the usa is his ambition and i don't have the perspective to now how rockers felt about bruce twirling with courtney cox on mtv

http://www.stereogum.com/1581902/kanye-compares-his-next-album-to-born-in-the-u-s-a-orders-a-boycott-on-louis-vuitton-in-contentious-qa-with-the-breakfast-club/video/

obv i am a-ok kanye playing my favorite game, tho

awesome how Kanye's baiting Deadspin list makers.

it's fun, i can attest to it

i wish it was easier to access the "omg aerosmith what is this dude look like a lady shit you're breaking my heart" moments of despair dyed-in-the-wool fans must have had in response to pop moves back in the day

if it's good kanye it's good kanye imo, whether it comes as rappity-ass rappin' or pop songs - but I remain v ambivalent about these particular pop songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk

I like that and "Come With Me" too.

i was a ridiculous nebraska fan (walkman favorite sophomore year in hs, listened to it 100s of times) and loved "dancing in the dark" so much i bought the 12-inch arthur baker extended mix just so it'd last longer. i was a teen though, thus flexible.

if it's good kanye it's good kanye imo, whether it comes as rappity-ass rappin' or pop songs - but I remain v ambivalent about these particular pop songs

yeah i'm not madly in love with them either - though if they're meant as low key palette cleansers to transition us into big ol' pop songs they're workin. if they ARE the big ol' pop songs, hmmmm

does paul actually sing on this? im not really comfortable him saying "wilin' out"

wasn't sure if his vocal mike was on; he kept singing into it and nothing came out #symbolic

kanye's beatles-and-grammys way of thinking about artistic greatness is so boring and sort of shows him up as the opposite of a revolutionary; he cares so deeply about bullshit conservative institutions

lex so otm

This is really gearing up to be the first shitty Kanye LP

R.I.P. to the strongest run of albums in rap history

Kanye's criticism was one of the few things about the Grammys that wasn't utterly toothless.

i'm kind of assuming these 2 songs will be outliers but maybe i'm wrong. it's not like first couple songs we heard off 808s or Yeezus were unrepresentative.

Black musicians have always held the Beatles in high esteem, given that history this isn't surprising.

a lot of ppl have held the beatles in high esteem they were a p big deal

who was surprised?

does Kanye like pizza?

i hear his people find it delicious

Nothing, I'm just saying that maybe Kanye values community ties more than being a "revolutionary".

stop doubting him just stop.

Kanye's criticism was one of the few things about the Grammys that wasn't utterly toothless.

when will the Grammys get back to what they used to be all about -- challenging governing aesthetic narratives and supporting new developments in popular music

No, more like, when will artists stop wearing boring couture and kissing ass and take a stand.

Which artist should have won the Grammy is probably about as important an issue to take a stand over as who should have got top billing for The Interview

Nah, lots of folks take the Grammys seriously

New Kanye track "Wolves" at 8:15, he debuted it in his Adidas broadcast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEYaLzRDyIA

sounds 808s & heartbreak-y

This is really gearing up to be the first shitty Kanye LP

R.I.P. to the strongest run of albums in rap history

― pro stroke Johnny Gill songs would rub you the right way (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, February 9, 2015 9:10 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know this post was specifically designed to elicit this type of response, but belated smh at this

trolling

"strongest run" includes mbdtf

Kanye's been little more than a punchline to me since 808s so I am maybe not in the majority opinion here

808s was the last one I enjoyed more than 50% of tbh

i have no idea if i'll love or hate this album but i could def seeing it being his King of Limbs, in term of diminished critical support

This is really gearing up to be the first shitty Kanye LP

R.I.P. to the strongest run of albums in rap history

― pro stroke Johnny Gill songs would rub you the right way (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, February 9, 2015 9:10 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know this post was specifically designed to elicit this type of response, but belated smh at this

― sae nnwurd - throw sum mo ka (k3vin k.), Friday, February 13, 2015 1:05 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are you smh at whiney's premature pessimism about the new album or the strongest run of albums in rap history part? the latter seems pretty indisputable 2 me

ilx got into such a fit over everyone else overrating MBDTF that we convinced ourselves it sucks. it's still like 2 standard deviations above mean rap album quality, at least

I was referring to the latter, which is def disputable come on now

xp

note that whiney didn't say *longest* great run, he said "strongest", and I can think of a bunch of guys who maybe had a shorter streak of albums, but those albums are way better than Kanye's

are there any other 7 quality album runs?

aka The Ghostface Clause

Name me one artist who's had a six-album run as good as Kanye West's, I'll wait

there are a good dozen of rap greats whose peak run of albums could be put up against Kanye's, he's not in his own league

idk maybe name some of them?

6 albums? i really can't think of anyone with a better run of 6 albums

you guys are acting like it's a fact he recorded six good albums like it's Article V in the Constitution

i mean it's a matter of personal taste, but Pac, Scarface, Jay, Ghostface, there are plenty of reasonable answers

I would dispute that he has 7 quality albums in a row for one thing

E-40s recent run springs to mind. Ghostface's run from '96 to 2009 is incredible with only one or two duds imo. Scarface. idk there's a bunch

xxp

alfred otm

yes, there's a few ppl like e-40, too $hort, ghostface etc who've release 7/8/9/etc quality albums in a row, that are like the 19th best album in any given year, but if you think they're working on a kanye level, then you've got david drake levels of rap delusion

oh cool we haven't had one of these Friday afternoon guy fights in weeks.

and yeah I'm no huge Jay-Z fan or expert but he's a p big elephant in the room

almost wanna say Too $hort tbh

xp

the David Drake Amendment, voted on by a lame duck rap congress

"working on a kanye level" = david drake level of delusion

kanye's made some very classy blockbusters that got a lot of grammy and pazz and jop love but that doesn't put him in some untouchable category that some far more skilled MCs with less auteur-y reps can't approach

Friday afternoon guy fights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswOS1YfmPM

haha please enlighten me with the six album run of great jay-z albums

I was gonna say "uh Jay?" a few minutes ago but I stopped b/c I hate his recent albums, but then I remembered he's made at least four good to great ones before 2003.

(any excuse to post a Guy Maddin clip)

I keep thinking that this album is going to be a watered down revisit of 808s and Heartbreak, an album that was seen as radical shift in style and genre and that was heavily inspired by loss and heartbreak, except that this one will have a slightly more positive feel to it. So in other words: Kanye's Morning Phase.

again, where is this six coming from?

my opinion which we're disputing?

Okay okay, okay okay, you will never stop it now
You never stop it now
Okay, okay okay, you will never stop it now
You need to drop it now, drop it, drop it

the weakest of Jay's first 6 albums is at least as good at 808s, this is not a really bold statement

if the dynasty counts the first six jay records are all good-to-great?

RD, vol1, vol2, vol3, the dynasty, bp1, bp2 >>>

there's a few ppl like e-40, too $hort, ghostface etc who've release 7/8/9/etc quality albums in a row, that are like the 19th best album in any given year

kanye is one of these as well, except when he releases albums that are nowhere near any "best" of any year

pfft @ vol 1

you'd think someone who thinks kanye has been on an unparalleled run of greatness would have a little more faith in the new album

anyway the answer is missy, and i know her last two were a drop-off but they're still better than any post-grad kanye album

I'm with Whiney on Vol. 1 actually

ok true there are 6 tupac albums

jay z has some great albs but theyre not contiguous

i love the first 2 ghostface albums and still like fishcale, but the rest are not on a level imo. also as a run on the whole not as varied or interesting/game changing

of scarface solo, i'm only famil with scarface is back, diary, and the fix. all amazing

that are like the 19th best album in any given year

seems worth noting that over the course of his career Kanye's that the range of competition has narrowed considerably, both on a commercial and artistic level. He benefits from surviving the cratering of the industry - but if he had come up against stronger competition from previous eras I don't think he'd get half as much adulation as he does. I meanat this point what other big name games in town are there that have stuck around as long as he has - Drake? Weezy? His buddy Jay-Z? Two of those are godawful jokes and the third should retire.

xxp

anyway the answer is missy, and i know her last two were a drop-off but they're still better than any post-grad kanye album

yeah I was gonna bring this up too but I like those last two more than others do (esp the Cookbook)

& i don't really get what sort of different level kanye is working on except commercial.

Vol. 1 is awesome and has classic songs, we established this in the Jay tracks poll. if a couple bum singles can disqualify a run then Kanye's got his share too.

Vol. 1 is awesome and has classic songs

otm

vol 1 is at least as good as any kanye album.

& jay-z's rapping on vol1 >>>>>> any kanye verse.

they're not on the same level.

omg these new songs are so corny, not like "love lockdown" or "diamonds" clearly the dynasty is over

gonna replay Vol. 1 this afternoon. Would probably like The Dynasty more if I forgot the singles. eh I'll listen to that one too.

xpost they're just boring

saying "jay rapped better" is maybe besides the point though. best album/best run of albums is kind of an inherently rockist metric and kanye excels measured against it because his albums are super "album-ey", rockist gold

and like, each one is really different and cool

w/e it's just my opinion.

glad flopson is on my team anyway

rockism canceling rockism out = green vs gold kryptonite

^i don't understand that post

this thread giving be flashbacks to when i was thirteen years old & posted to a hip hop message board where there were like bi-weekly debates of who was the GOAT

http://cdn.oxwordsblog.wpfuel.co.uk/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/Grinning-goat-300x225.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeP_AUAFXgY

this is ridiculous, and also UGK

We went a long way in this discussion without mentioning Outkast's output.

for first 6 jay albums we're counting dynasty as one of those even tho it's ostensibly a label showcase, right? bc if not, the 6 jay albums argument kinda shits itself and dies if anyone's trying to squeeze blueprint 2 in there, bc that album is rooooough

xp it depends on how charitable you choose to be to speakerboxxx/love below (totally valid) and idlewild (a way harder nut to crack)

again, this "6-album" part is so totally arbitrary

some dude picked the best of The Dynasty 2 a few years ago iirc

We went a long way in this discussion without mentioning Outkast's output.

classic 4 album run, but no one's going to argue that the Love Below is a classic rap album

even if some would put it in the convo, Idlewild is a harder sell

this was my 1 hour edit of The Blueprint 2: http://open.spotify.com/user/1219464571/playlist/4wVPiYTEU5uqxE6tZ5f8MQ

i definitely meant 6 Jay albums ending in The Blueprint, though -- The Dynasty was envisioned as a compilation but ultimately became a Jay-Z album with a Memphis Bleek solo cut (like Vol. 2).

classic 4 album run, but no one's going to argue that the Love Below is a classic rap album

Agreed but then how classic is 808s?

exactly

xp it's pretty immensely influential, which guarantees some sort of importance - whether you like what it begat or not is another matter

'david drake delusion' = the nonsense kanye mythology that argues a great too short album could only ever be in the teens conservative grammy-oriented heirarchical bullshit?

& i don't really get what sort of different level kanye is working on except commercial.

― ANU (sisilafami), Friday, February 13, 2015 2:46 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

x1000

saying "jay rapped better" is maybe besides the point though. best album/best run of albums is kind of an inherently rockist metric and kanye excels measured against it because his albums are super "album-ey", rockist gold

― flopson, Friday, February 13, 2015 2:51 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

except there's a three+decade history of great rap albums?

the kanye centric view of rap history is poisonous

excited for you guys to 180 on travis scott next year too

yr late

& i don't really get what sort of different level kanye is working on except commercial.

― ANU (sisilafami), Friday, February 13, 2015 2:46 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

combination of commercial + critical + transcending rap as a celebrity

his consistency, personal vision and perseverance at the top of the genre as it has crumbled around him is unmatched in his era

his desire and ability to update and mutate his sound at the whims of only himself puts him in a very special class of musicians, to say nothing of rappers

what the hell people are saying in my lifetime vol 1 isn't a great rap album?

i don't think whiney is crazy out of pocket or anything but even in the same time kanye has been rapping i might take lil wayne's run of tha carter -> tha carter 2 -> dedication 2 -> like father like son -> da drought 3 -> tha carter III ... to say nothing of several full length gucci mane projects

i won't necessarily hold kanye's sons against him but i do shudder at the thought of a world where kanye is the dominant influence on rap

oh i didn't see that kanye invented album-y rap albums in 2004, themoreyouknow.jpg

everything was 12"s and mixtapes before that

omg these new songs are so corny, not like "love lockdown" or "diamonds" clearly the dynasty is over

― da croupier, Friday, February 13, 2015 3:48 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol'd @ this

"love lockdown" is dope ... should've used "power" instead

https://hablamnemosina.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/hf2qqq6.gif

i won't necessarily hold kanye's sons against him but i do shudder at the thought of a world where kanye is the dominant influence on rap

― J0rdan S., Friday, February 13, 2015 6:36 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you mean the era we're in right now where you can't turn on the radio without hearing Drake, J. Cole, Big Sean, Wale, and several other rappers who wouldn't exist without Kanye?

You could tune it to the classic rock station

yeah i mean jay was the obvious one i was referring to, implying that kanye's weakest album is better than any of jay's first, like, 8 is the kind of opinion i'd expect out of one of the 18 year olds i play basketball with

shakey's point about the competition jay was up against vs kanye's current peers is otm too

Big Sean is in "Twofer Tuesday" rotation on The Aorta now -- i fought management like hell but they insisted

3 Feet High and Rising / De La Soul Is Dead / Buhloone Mindstate / Stakes Is High / Art Official Intelligence: Mosaic Thump / AOI: Bionix / The Grind Date
^ 7!

Anyway dude mostly lost me with Graduation and completely lost me with 808; even going back to those albums and randomly clicking through tracks is winceworthy. Robocop? Stronger? Chris Martin collabos?

aw stronger is great

yeah, no.

Yeah, Graduation is the last Kanye album I love cuz no concepts or bad relationship psychobabble.

Otm

you mean the era we're in right now where you can't turn on the radio without hearing Drake, J. Cole, Big Sean, Wale, and several other rappers who wouldn't exist without Kanye?

― some dude, Friday, February 13, 2015 7:24 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark

no i should've been more specific -- you're right that these guys couldn't have existed w/o kanye but they're basically just normal rappers in a post-gangster, post-kanye mainstream world. i'm talking more about guys like travis scott or even asap rocky who are auteur fashion plate types without the talent to back it up.

graduation is def spotty at best, & i never personally liked 808s really but idk i expect this 2 be p good, wld be surprised if it's not, agree abt kanye being an icon & transcending his generation m/l tbh

cole, wale & sean and those guys are like college dropout through graduation influenced in that they focus almost strictly on middle class concerns. drake sort of provides a bridge in terms of kanye's influence, taking the sound and mood of 808s and blowing it up into its own cottage industry, then you have guys like rocky & travis scott etc who are post-808s/dark fantasy era babies

i guess?

"Stronger" and a few other songs on Graduation were the beginning of him having no idea what lines should and shouldn't be repeated over and over in a chorus ("since OJ had isotoners" "Common passed on this beat," "Hip Hop's brother, who was No I.D.'s friend" etc).

The hate for recent Kanye itt is baffling to me. Maybe it's because I'm classically trained and grew up on pop before getting into rap, maybe it's because I'm young but I honestly think MBDTF and Yeezus are his best works, MBDTF imo being one of the greatest albums of all time. Other people rapping better than him has never been the point, the point is vision, scale, and the actual MUSIC, which i infinitely more interesting than most other hip-hop, especially pre-2001-Kanye-as-dominant-producer hip-hop.

I get your comparisons, and most of those guys may be better rappers than Kanye (expect Weezy, good lord no), but like someone said upthread that's beside the point. Kanye focuses on song craft and keeping the music churning below him dynamic and interesting, in a genre where that is undervalued. I don't know, maybe you guys just dont buy into the Kanye persona (which I do 1000%) so none of this matters to you if you can't get past that?

Other people rapping better than him has never been the point, the point is vision, scale, and the actual MUSIC, which i infinitely more interesting than most other hip-hop, especially pre-2001-Kanye-as-dominant-producer hip-hop.

no

Kanye focuses on song craft and keeping the music churning below him dynamic and interesting, in a genre where that is undervalued.

no

you're saying you value Kanye b/c he's not, according to your definitions, very hip-hop.

MBDTF imo being one of the greatest albums of all time

*______*

Seems like most Kanye hate has nothing to do with his music, people just think he's annoying or something

Classically trained

h8 saying this but deej otm, this notion of kanye at some rarified level is PR. kanye is in the tradition of rap artists who make great albums. that's a long tradition.

OTOH

excited for you guys to 180 on travis scott next year too

please know that when this doesn't happen I'm going to remind you

the kanye centric view of rap history is poisonous

excited for you guys to 180 on travis scott next year too

― deej loaf (D-40), Friday, February 13, 2015 6:07 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol this post was so real

kanye was definitely one of my favorite artists in rap (or any genre) from '01 to '07 and as much as i like to talk slick about his less consistent work since then he's still obviously done plenty of quality work. i just don't think that puts him into some special category nobody else in the history of rap can compete with.

im honestly more indifferent to travis scott than anything

maybe w/ better marketing id think he was good can he be in an ipod ad

the songs w/ Macca were at least kind of unexpected but "Wolves" is the first thing from this record that i find totally discouraging -- really sounds like the same old crap he's been doing over and over since 808s.

you're saying you value Kanye b/c he's not, according to your definitions, very hip-hop.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, February 14, 2015 2:09 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No I'm saying I value him because he makes hip-hop that is interesting beyond just the lyrics. Beats that are dynamic and have a recognizable and changing form and are sonically interesting. No matter much better an MC Jay-Z is/was than Ye, you can't say that a song like "Reservoir Dogs" has anything at all going for it to make it superior to anything on MBTDF other than the rapping (fyi I think MBTF has amazing verses throughout, "Gorgeous" and "Blame Game" especially, but my point here is that even if you are of the opinion that he's shit on the mic, my point still stands).

I'm not saying Kanye is the only one who makes musically interesting hip-hop (and certainly a lot of his albums' highlight beats were crafted by others for him), but he has been incredibly influential in pushing it forward, innovating it, and making it more the norm. For example, a lot of 40's beats on Nothing Was The Same are incredibly involving, and would that have happened if Kanye had never put out what he has? That's why I value Kanye.

Classically trained

― brimstead, Saturday, February 14, 2015 2:13 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ok fair enough this sounds douchey, but I am literally a classical musician, and my experience in this realm definitely has influenced how I consume other music so I thought I'd put that out there to chew on.

No I'm saying I value him because he makes hip-hop that is interesting beyond just the lyrics.

and this is so wrong as to be bizarre

xp some dude, I know I posted it and I'm the one standing hardest in this thread right now but I'd agree on the underwhelming nature of Wolves. I love Only One and like FourFiveSeconds, but Wolves sounds pretty dull and unfinished to me. Reserving judgment until I see how/if it fits with the whole, but right now it's a bit worrisome.

No I'm saying I value him because he makes hip-hop that is interesting beyond just the lyrics.

and this is so wrong as to be bizarre

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, February 14, 2015 2:45 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You don't think that the instrumentals for "So Appalled," "Devil in a New Dress," "Lost in the World," "Bound 2," "Dark Fantasy," "New Slaves," or "Blood On The Leaves" are great, good, interesting, or at least musically engaging in any level beyond the ordinary??

Hooboy

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v1/1474106047_1/Super-mario-Kitsune-slippers-Cartoon-plush-silpper-11inch-Mario-Tanuki-slipper-Indoor-shoes-Free-Shipping-EMS.jpg_220x220.jpg

well it HAS been 30 days so

yeah deej otm

the argument that kanye's greatness even partly derives from "transcending rap as a celebrity" is also bs bc it pretty much shifts the criteria to about three artists in the history of rap. i don't think other rappers' failure to transcend rap as celebrities is a mark against their greatness! much as it makes kanye easy to write about now.

wow @ the idea that kanye normalised musical innovation in hip-hop just wow. also funny given that he came into the game with a more trad/organic/soulful sound than the hyper-innovative timba/neps era that dominated then (will also still argue that kanye's best productions were the ones he made before his solo career happened)

(and not that i've ever read a convincing argument for MBDTF's supposed innovation beyond how much it cost)

otoh it's adorable when somebody pops in to explain the history of Hip Hop for those of us who missed out first time around

That isn't what I was doing, just explaining my opinion and trying to justify that his tracks are musically interesting and important, which I had assumed was self-evident until this thread. MBDTF and Yeezus are two of the most sonically interesting mainstream hip-hop albums out there but I guess if you don't buy into them as enjoyable in the first place, we won't agree in any way on their merits or lack thereof

those albums are sonically interesting, yes. to hold them up as paragons of "musicality" in Hip Hop is the work of somebody who just isn't familiar with Hip Hop

I like Yeezus a lot and have mixed feelings about MBDTF and while I have no problem calling them innovative or sonically interesting, they are very much part of a tradition of innovative and sonically interesting hiphop. If you can't hear what came before them (by others and by Kanye himself) as such, it's because previous innovations have become normalized over time. xp

xpost lex, you make an interesting point about the "hyper-innovative timba/neps era that dominated then," and you're right that Kanye came in with a trad sounding and trad sourced style, but what I think he did more than Timb ever did, and what I like so much still about his tunes, is craft beats that have a comprehensive roadmap. Theres a point A, B, C, D, etc, all distinctive and progressing, sometimes radically different from one another but fitting into a whole. THAT'S what I personally think Kanye does better than most others. You look at a Timbo beat like "Are You That Somebody?" (not rap but bear with me), its way out in outer space with it's sound (way "crazier" sounding than anything on College Dropout) but the beat stays almost exactly the same throughout.

That's just one example, feel free to correct/educate me, or point me to pre-Kanye producers who really mapped out their beats like I talk about above and I'd be delighted, I can't get enough of that!

I feel like this whole time I've been talking about different musical/social criteria in post 808's Kanye than you all think I've been talking about. And getting shit on I should probably just run off but I know I'm not 100% crazy here.

Yeezus is Jesus. My favourite too. Completely unpredictable and sonically adventurous. Obnoxious yes rather than obnoxious no.I think hip hop heads have some kind of platonic ideal that his music doesn't measure up to but that's missing the point.I also think one of the reasons he is great is because he is willing to fail. Plus he is hella entertaining. Still waiting for the leather leg warmers though.

Bomb Squad, RZA, work forward

altho privileging beats that "progress" over beats that "loop" feels like a peculiarly reductive kind of definition for musicality

i mean, privileging "musical" elements over the voice is already a dysfunctional way to approach the genre but hey

Devils advocate etc...What if genre does not matter OR maybe he is making music for people into classical music. In other words why are you more qualified to comment than mrexplorer?

genre makes no odds to me, but i'm not the one saying things like MBDTF and Yeezus are two of the most sonically interesting mainstream hip-hop albums out there

i don't think anybody on this thread doesn't have some love for Kanye, but most of them aren't making ludicrous statements about a huge, complex, historied genre to justify that love

Anyway dude mostly lost me with Graduation and completely lost me with 808; even going back to those albums and randomly clicking through tracks is winceworthy. Robocop? Stronger? Chris Martin collabos?

― the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Friday, February 13, 2015 4:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, Graduation is the last Kanye album I love cuz no concepts or bad relationship psychobabble.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, February 13, 2015 5:00 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

kanye was definitely one of my favorite artists in rap (or any genre) from '01 to '07 and as much as i like to talk slick about his less consistent work since then he's still obviously done plenty of quality work. i just don't think that puts him into some special category nobody else in the history of rap can compete with.

― some dude, Friday, February 13, 2015 6:24 PM (Yesterday)

Thanks NV xxxxpost. I guess 'privileging' is a good way to put it, as I don't shun looping beats, but a progressing one captures me a lot more, probably because of the kind of music I play. If you were sitting in an orchestra would you rather play Mahler or Phillip Glass?

And in Kanye's case i don't even necessarily privilege the music over the voice, I love his voice and his lyrics and think he's still the total package but I know a lot of you don't lately so I chose to make the conversation about the musical elements. Easier to defend my very high opinion of MBDTF from that angle, I had figured.

fuck me, LATE REGISTRATION

>:[

wth, braine?

MrEx i don't play pro but i listen to a lot of Classical/Compositional/Art/Whatever we wanna call it music and so i can appreciate that players might have preferences but from a listener's end i don't much care about "narrative" (?) and have plenty of love for circularity - such a false split, i know, everything develops even when the notes don't change...

didn't word that clearly - i appreciate yr perspective, but it's your perspective, genre theorizing is usually swampy ground imo

Ok then. I must be weird but I hated MBDF - a real chore - but that is not a blanket Kanye position cos then I jumped back on board the Kanye laser train with Yeezus - Liked Only One - very much dislike the Rihanna tune, what i am saying is that the fizz pop musical landscape would be very very dull without this man and that sometimes he hits it out of the park and sometimes he does not but I love having him round like a crazy uncle that sometimes can be excrutiating but at other times might be the only fun thing about Christmas Dinner.

Lex totally otm upthread

Shades of geir in this "classical" disparagement of repetition too

Like some basic wrongheaded assumptions about what constitutes innovation and creativity in music going on

Been meaning to mention geir for a while now but couldn't settle on the right pun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfi7ME_Y5Vs

(if this gets deleted, it's Kurtis Blow feat. Bob Dylan, "Street Rock")

i think the arrival of an actual living breathing strawman/sock/16 year old has shifted the goalposts. nu-tanukster aside, no one on #teamkanye itt are saying he's the first person to make sonically innovative hip hop. he just had a run of great 6 albums! which is long for any artist in any genre

well, whiney was saying more than that, but i still think that was trolling for effect anyway

all he said is kanye's run is better than ghostface, e-40 and 2 short's... that seems like a low bar for trolling

the only pt of arguing with a stray googler like mrexplorer is to reinforce your own feeling of being right

Nevermind what's happening iit, the idea that Kanye is 'transcending rap as a celebrity/artist' is prevalent in media right now.

I think it's more that Kanye has moved from rap star to pop-cultural star/brand (which may be what you're saying anyway)

I tried listening to "FourFiveSeconds" and tapped out after only three seconds

that MBDTF is kanye's best album is one of the most mindbending arguments I hear consistently, to say nothing of it being the best album of all time

i honestly don't even understand the argument. that it's kanye's most "sonically interesting" album is like objectively wrong to me.

I've always loved it and don't agree with the hate for it, other than for it being overrated in some critical circles (which is valid) - but would never try and argue that it is his best or most sonically interesting record

in fact by being kinda beholden to structure and sequencing that are more common to prog-rock than hip-hop, one can reasonably argue that it's his most conservative record

Most prog rock isn't half as leaden as MBDTF!

Saying that MBDTF is one of the best albums of all time imo was nothing more than imo. It's had an impact on me that nothing else has and is thus one of my favorites ever, but I'm not here to fight about how I worded that, that's silly. It being HIS best (or most intetesting or what have you) is a more reasonable debate to have. I'd like to hear more from JordanS wrt sonically interesting Kanye. FWIW I think Yeezus is the most interesting (and I lumped it with MBDTF in those terms upthread) , and I am hard pressed to find anything nearly as unique as "On Sight" "Blood on the Leaves" etc. on his first three records.

What are your criteria for sonically interesting Kanye? These are all really personal opinions I think but you say you have an objective standard...?

(((If we could cut the ad hominem attacks that would be cool. "Stray googler"? Ilx is so weird, I've been reading this board for a year, who knew a month after I joined I'd be getting chewed out just for trying to participate)))

i think the arrival of an actual living breathing strawman/sock/16 year old has shifted the goalposts. nu-tanukster aside, no one on #teamkanye itt are saying he's the first person to make sonically innovative hip hop.

Doesn't this just warm your heart? I think you're actually sounding a lot more like RT than I am right now, ignoring what was actually said for the sake of putting others down. As I wrote way above you:
"I'm not saying Kanye is the only one who makes musically interesting hip-hop (and certainly a lot of his albums' highlight beats were crafted by others for him), but he has been incredibly influential"

He's an innovator and a lighting rod and no one can dispute that, no matter if we agree on our opinions of his newest albums.

The problem, MrExplorer, is after a year you should have had a chance to read that swollen MBDTF thread and know that no one on ILM, even the MBDTF, looks at things the way you said you did in yesterday's posts.

Yeah ignore the cheap shots.

Otoh cop to your prejudices

Xp

who knew a month after I joined I'd be getting chewed out just for trying to participate

someone who's been reading for a year, iirc

To me, innovation and merit are not cause and effect.

Play nice kids

Xp

Xpost I've read the swollen Yeezus thread, fantastic discussion there, I guess I never came across said MBDTF thread

And yeah this "It's had an impact on me that nothing else has and is thus one of my favorites ever" was me copping to my prejudices, good point

Agree that innovation is overrated and not a barometer of quality. Often what one hears as innovative is really dependent on ignorance of history, genre, technology etc

It's a conversation stopper.

"Pet Sounds was innovative."

"Really. Check, please?"

Well when i recommended copping to your prejudices i meant more a) acknowledge what aesthetic criteria you're applying and b) be ready to identify their limits and by extension your possible ignorance.

I dont barge into dance music threads cuz i heard some recently annointed critical "classic" and loved it and proceed to act like i know where it's rep came from. Or say i loved it cuz it's not like all the other things in the genre (which i in all likelihood havent listened to)

Xxp

Instead i read dance music threads w a mixture of bemusement and befuddlement

helpful approach to life too

isnt kanye just a shittier just blaze anyway

Did just blaze make 6 classic albums in a row y/n?

i mean kanye sorta has the leg up there if only b/c kanye hasn't done any tracks with baauer...yet

http://cdn04.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2015/01/rihanna-four-five-seconds-full-song.jpg

damn... Will To Power aged poorly

ooh baby I love Kanye
every day

i like fourfiveseconds

neat pop song, sounds good on radio

otm

i like "fourfiveseconds" more than i did initially but i wouldn't say i actually ~like~ it yet lol

i actually do like "only one" tho

objectively wrong to me In other words, it's subjectively wrong (and you may well be right, cos I agree with you).

For me, it's more about his songs, especially "Hold My Liquor." Was glad to see Lorde cover it, and consider "Flicker(Kanye West Rework" exemplary: he rescues and extends the tension, which was gradually leaking out of the original, every time that thin vocal hook chorus came around again.

Because he understood the *song*, wasn't just looking to add his own hasty signature, like so many remixers.

totally disagree about that, original "Yellow Flicker Beat" was great and sounded bigger and brighter than Lorde's earlier stuff, the Kanye mix just stripped it back down to a drab minimal Pure Heroine sound.

Was glad to see Lorde cover it, and consider "Flicker(Kanye West Rework" exemplary: he rescues and extends the tension, which was gradually leaking out of the original, every time that thin vocal hook chorus came around again.

aw -- the original "Yellow Flicker Beat" has become my favorite Lorde song.

Well maybe it's because I really enjoy the sound of Pure Heroine, think it suits the notes made in and between her classes. I enjoy the bluesy, weary, Doorsy,PJ Harvey-y (perfect for spooky soundtrack of a futuristic fable) verses of "Yellow Flicker Beat, " just got to hearing the chorus as a slight but persistent let-down (opposite of so many songs, of course). But whether you like what he did or not, it's a good faith effort.

Both tracks, and several more on the soundtrack, made me wonder if I should see the movie, which I hadn't previously considered considering, so mission accomplished in that department.

4, 5 secs is a great campfire singalong song

unless you're in Florida you haven't been at a campfire recently.

Or Arizona like myself

you all will like Only One and FourSiveSeconds at some point this year. taking a public stance against either track is futile and potentially damages your creditability.

willing to take that risk
tho' honestly i heard it so far only at the grammys so i suppose i should try it a few more times

Yes best to keep opinions under wraps at this stage. When I am walking down the street and I AM inevitably rushed by the music fans of my town for Kanye discussion I tend to favour pulling my hat down over my head and mumbling something about groceries before scurrying away into the heather.

When I muttered a remark under my breath on hearing "Fourfiveseconds" at Starbucks yesterday, I had to run for my life when a swizzlestick-waving mob yelled "Stone him!" and chased me out of the joint.

even in the unlikely event that either of these terrible songs grow on me, changing my mind about a song would neither be a novelty nor an embarrassment

the crazy thing about all the critical adoration for mbdtf (which bored me and still bores me) and yeezus (which i loved for a while but have no desire to revisit) is that it doesn't seem like the average hip hop listener - which is to say the listener for whom hip hop is central to their listening - would ever call either of those albums kanye's best album. i mean that's a purely anecdotal observation and there are definitely people who have sipped the kanye as infallible genius juice but on the whole i feel like it's still a minority opinion. yeezus especially is widely considered a flop and unlike 808s mbdtf produced no significant hits and hasn't had even a slight influence on the genre beyond a handful of shameless biters. (and imo the most forward moments on all three records had more to do with him collaborating with and drawing on the works of more active innovators like wayne nicki and keef, he was chasing trends not setting them.)

i feel like this indicative of broader trends under which the hip hop canon is now primarily being written by fantano types who are disconnected from the history of the culture and who are influencing young people at its perimeter to buy into their ideas wholesale without giving them much context. actually the one thing that interested me about mbdtf was not how proggy it was but how much of it was built on a foundation of traditional breakbeats via 90s hip hop (and also bmore club music which is a sister genre even though it too has largely been coopted by nerds and yts) but i don't think a lot of the people writing about it had the knowledge necessary to recognize, say, that runaway was built on top of a pete rock interlude and to direct listeners back in that direction let alone the perspective to talk about what those choices mean. so it just becomes this cycle of ignorance under which kanye is this big bang of a singular perfect genius and not a product of ideas that had been simmering for forty years internally within hip hop.

i realize you guys are now talking abotu his sheryl crow record but whatever i was reading some shit upthread

yeah the rearranging of Kanye's catalog around the idea of MBDTF as his consensus pinnacle has just gotten weird. Complex did a ranking of his albums (including Watch The Throne) that put Late Registration at #7 and College Dropout at #5.

i wonder what MBDTF super fans think the best Kanye verse is on the album because the Nicki and Ross verses are so much more revered and talked about than any of his.

I agree with you but I am not sure yeezus is considered a flop? Around me it's spoken as some sort of instant classic, in the same vein as say Kid A or Nevermind.

yeah no in a lot of rap fan circles Yeezus is pretty reviled/dismissed, in a way that 808s wasn't. it was his first album to not go platinum and not have any radio hits, so it undeniably did not connect w/ a large portion of his fanbase.

even in the unlikely event that either of these terrible songs grow on me, changing my mind about a song would neither be a novelty nor an embarrassment

― lex pretend, Sunday, February 15, 2015 2:45 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the only embarrassment is lying to yourself. under prolonged exposure everyone ends up liking everything so stated denial of pleasure becomes irrelevant. this isn't to negate negative criticism, criticism is always encouraged...but it isn't law. putting criticism in the box of personal interest is more rarely than not uninteresting.

publicly stating musical displeasure in a fashion of "i don't like this song" seems kinda outdated bc you're setting yourself up for limitations. i think nothing grows on anyone....a part of you knows immediately if you like something or not, the "growing on" portion consists of finding the vulnerability required to admit pleasure.

i find both these tracks immediately irresistible and interesting in their lack of percussion. the lack of beat challenges the perception of what makes music enjoyable...as much popular music is so drum pattern based. some people dismiss this claim of interest, arguing that the tracks are indeed boring. that is fine and an argument can be made (however unprogressive it may be) but voicing it from a personal perspective may not be your most effective form of communication.

under prolonged exposure everyone ends up liking everything so stated denial of pleasure becomes irrelevant.

publicly stating musical displeasure in a fashion of "i don't like this song" seems kinda outdated bc you're setting yourself up for limitations.

I don't like this sentence.

noz, booming post

The provocative thing is that "wilding" was kind of the thug of its day, when it was the key descriptor in the '89 Central Park Jogger case.

under prolonged exposure everyone ends up liking everything

I love this

the lack of beat challenges the perception of what makes music enjoyable

sorry WHOSE perception is this challenging exactly?

publicly stating musical displeasure in a fashion of "i don't like this song" seems kinda outdated bc you're setting yourself up for limitations. i think nothing grows on anyone....a part of you knows immediately if you like something or not, the "growing on" portion consists of finding the vulnerability required to admit pleasure.

this paragraph is best imagined as written about "all about that bass"

out of all the innovations I've seen in the 21st century I'd no idea "I don't like this song" would be kinda outdated.

i wonder what MBDTF super fans think the best Kanye verse is on the album because the Nicki and Ross verses are so much more revered and talked about than any of his.

― raccoon tanuki dye dashiki nefertiti edges kinky (some dude), Sunday, February 15, 2015 10:37 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

MBDTF super fan here: I think Ross's verse is very subconsciously impactful in its delivery and how it was recorded and mixed (very up front, huge compression), and thats the main reason it has a positive effect in the song. Its lyrics though are completely out of character of the song and feel so weird next to Kanye's this-is-the-story-of-a-girl verses.

The Nikki verse is rightly revered (also Pusha and Cyhi are amazing in So Appalled)

I think Kanye's best verses are in Gorgeous (esp the 3rd verse) and Blame Game (2nd verse).

i've never quite worked out whether the "young people prefer latter day kanye" thing is true or what it means if so - like at what point this supposed generational divide took hold? 808s?

oh I def see it. 2010-2011 marked the first time I felt encircled by the Kanye mob. "I don't like this," I kept yelling, ineffectually, for it was outdated, and I'd set myself up for limitations.

xp yeah 808s

sorry WHOSE perception is this challenging exactly?

― lex pretend, Sunday, February 15, 2015 6:13 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol what do you mean? most rap beats make/break their popularity. what are the most common critiques of Only One and FourFive seconds?

and that paragraph is written about every song, not just kanye but meghan trainer too. and bono. and farrah abraham. and aphex twin.

i'm basing this all on personal experience myself, so it may be hypocritical, but i know that i genuinely like everything...there are just some works that interest me more than others. the less interesting works i can still appreciate at some level, but aren't fascinating enough to keep my attention. i don't think the inability to keep my attention denotes it as bad, it just doesn't match my current sensibilities. so basing criticism on an i like this/i don't like this level just seems a little lazy.

Otoh 808s is reviled by a lot of the crowd that loves MBDTF and Yeezus. All you have to do is look at KTT threads for 5 minutes to see thats still an odd outlier in fan appreciation

xp

"sheryl crow record" is perfect, from the minute i heard it i thought this was kanye's "picture" or "need you now"

Oh were you talking about rap beats specifically rather than the idea of a beatless arrangement being mind blowingly new in itself

I think the capacity to hate clearly but fully is crucial to any personal aesthetic

just limiting this to art: nah i can't hate anything. i don't think highly enough to myself to hate. actively uninterested is abt as far negative that my spectrum reaches.

anosmia, clearly

i know that i genuinely like everything

then you're not a critic

Everyone should think enough of themselves and their judgment to hate, but let's not pretend disinterest isn't the more wounding reaction to art

interesting post by noz. i think rather than dividing it into 'fantano-types' and 'listeners for whom hip hop is central to their listening' you can just occam's razor it & say that kanye's fanbase extends through two generations, the second of whom were introduced to him through 808's & mbdtf and so that's their baseline. i like both new kanye and old kanye, but my favourite album is probably the debut.

but i think both dimensions are true, i just think the influence of doonjtwads like fantano in generating this narrative is probably overstated. every generation learns history through the previous generation's misunderstanding of it. i don't think it's important for kids who love runaway to be 'directed backwards' to a pete rock interlude or 'have the perspective to talk about what those choices mean.' i don't think thinking kanye is a genius is necessarily a revisionist pov

Watch The Throne weirdly missing in this conversation. It's a big factor in the love he's received in recent years.

understandable given how much normals like the second half of jay's career

Has it really been a critical factor though? It had massive radio hits but didn't seem to inspire nearly as much critical hurrah as what came before or after it. The way I experienced the hype cycle is that it was seen as more of a "party record" and less "real Kanye" (whatever that means depending of course).

i don't think the inability to keep my attention denotes it as bad, it just doesn't match my current sensibilities. so basing criticism on an i like this/i don't like this level just seems a little lazy.
If I can say why it doesn't keep my attention---not in an "objective," perfectly self-aware way, but a way that seems true enough---most often, "First verse and chorus okay, but then placeholder verses, moneyshot chorus milked dry and then some and then some more"---then in "I don't like it" ain't lazy. Although, if I wrote it every time I heard like that, I'd be milking it to death myself. There isn't much bad music worth writing about anymore, but Kanye's bad (and good)is indeed worthy (obviously, hence this above-average thread), so give thanks.
Really enjoyed Watch The Throne.

Party record yeah, and fine with me.

"interesting post by noz. i think rather than dividing it into 'fantano-types' and 'listeners for whom hip hop is central to their listening' you can just occam's razor it & say that kanye's fanbase extends through two generations, the second of whom were introduced to him through 808's & mbdtf and so that's their baseline. i like both new kanye and old kanye, but my favourite album is probably the debut."

Nah plenty of young youths are split on recent kanye too and i think frequently that divide cuts across class lines. More often than not Ye loyalists tend to be technologically savvy/fashion forward/culturally literate/middle class which is why calling these records The Greatest And Most Musical Rap Albums is a problem in a culture that once existed specifically to push against classism. And that's where the Fantanogang comes into the picture too - they are pushing not just the idea of greatness but that of The Greatestness and leaving a lot of people at the side in doing so. (Then again the same could be said about Illmatic wrt to The Source's boosterism in the 90s, but that was at least coming from critics with an active investment in hip hop as hip hop, not from people who have been waiting their whole life for hip hop to stop sounding like hip hop and start sounding "musical" whatever that is /keef voice)

idek if fantana likes mbdtf and i'm not going to look it up either. he is definitely representative of a certain kind of increasingly popular hip hop criticism that has almost nothing to do with hip hop and the most representative example at that. i think it was craig jenkins on twitter who pointed out that fant is the most visible working rap critic and yes that is #problematic as fuck because he is 30 and probably can't name more than three biggie songs.

hip hop to stop sounding like hip hop and start sounding "musical"

But some of us want "musical" to sound like hip-hop, or die tryin' (since I don't much care about prog as prog as prog for inst, I volunteer it for the next experiment). But if rap vs. classism is the ideal, rap that maintains the status quo and knee jerks against experiments variation is the problem (at least ideally, though a throwback to a sound you like can sound good in any genre, if way too convenient)

Sorry Firefox is fucking up my typing

"But if rap vs. classism is the ideal, rap that maintains the status quo and knee jerks against experiments variation is the problem"

not sure how that addresses anything i just wrote. around when mbdtf dropped waka & lex, wiz & cardo, lil b & clams, max b & harry fraud, gucci & zay, travis porter & fki, earl & tyler, nicki & soulja boy instrumentals, roc marcy & roc marcy, etc., etc. were all making huge formal innovations that still resonate to this day *within* hip hop.

id cede to flopson that misunderstanding history is often how this stuff evolves & of course the interplay of power relations vis a vis class & gender et al

theres def a lack of ~intersectional thinking~ in kanye boosterism that ignores how his art is v male in not just presentation but in his approach to creating an audience, as well as class.

xpost experiments within rap: True but you hadn't cited allll that, or if you did I missed it sorry. Peace out browser's fucking up

err max b & dame grease rather

deej my complaint is not so much a matter of misunderstanding history but of an inability to contextualize the work within the genre that produced it. that can mean pete rock or chief keef.

Hip-hop, got turned into hit pop
the second a record was number one on the pop charts
For those that get on heart that gotta in the ghetto
Let no one forget about the hard part
Now in ninety-one we got a new brand, a new band
lookin like the same old Klan
Same old theives that skeez so we gotta make sure
that real rap has got to endure

Kanye can be broken into two eras...pre-"Swallowship" and post

sorry WHOSE perception is this challenging exactly?

― lex pretend, Sunday, February 15, 2015 6:13 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol what do you mean? most rap beats make/break their popularity. what are the most common critiques of Only One and FourFive seconds?

― nose, Sunday, February 15, 2015 3:30 PM (3 hours ago)

"only one" and "fourfiveseconds" are not rap songs

"only one" and "fourfiveseconds" are not rap songs

― dyl, Sunday, February 15, 2015 9:48 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol yes they are.

are trash songs

https://twitter.com/KimKardashian/status/567176414064291840

also kanye wore blue contacts tonight

lol there's no rapping in either song unless the meaning of that word has been revised recently without my knowledge O_o

x-post from Sat. Night Live- Kanye performed "Jesus Walks" while lying on his back on the stage. He then stood up to perform "Only One" and new song "Wolves" with Sia (in an enormous wig) and Vic Mensa.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/02/kanye-west-debuts-wolves-during-powerful-saturday-night-live-watch/

I really like "wolves," it's not exactly something unexpected but w/e, industrial-ish kanye is pretty all right

i can see how "wolves" and "only one" would be on the same album, still not sure how "four five seconds" fits in but I guess we'll see

under prolonged exposure everyone ends up liking everything

Opposite direction for me, its the continued exposure to bad music that renders it more and more irritating.

"wolves" is pretty intriguing

noz: i agree with the class thing actually. ito people i know in the past couple years it seems the chasm has opened up and there are now just randoms who only know him as egomaniac celeb and didn't assume anyone actually liked his music or fashion ppl/hipsters who maintain his genius & infallibility on a not-just-artistic but also race dimension like ayesha here, and few people in between

is Sia singing real words?

she's sure not playing real instruments

the gentrification of rap and/or rap's critical gatekeepers has been a thing for a while, right? though it gets weirdly under-discussed, at least in those terms. like

More often than not Ye loyalists tend to be technologically savvy/fashion forward/culturally literate/middle class which is why calling these records The Greatest And Most Musical Rap Albums is a problem in a culture that once existed specifically to push against classism

this is super-otm of course but if kanye's pulled one over the world generally it's that no one ever, ever talks about his own middle-class privilege (whereas drake's turned it into his MO to such an extent that clowning him for it wouldn't work, not that his critics shouldn't be talking about class rather than his "softness"). of course he knew how to work his career towards Greatest And Most Musical Rap Album territory - especially when the art media has become more reflective of middle-class values across the board? - while his working-class peers and putative challengers have not

theres def a lack of ~intersectional thinking~ in kanye boosterism that ignores how his art is v male in not just presentation but in his approach to creating an audience, as well as class.

yeah, it's remarkable how little i see this noted

I really do think that Kanye's purest target audience are the advertising type, specifically male creatives.

I'm not sure how he can transcend his gender – it's his responsibility. Not ours though.

i think it's kind of unchill for non-black middle class ppl to be like "kanye needs to own his MIDDLE CLASS privilege"

naming your first album College Dropout doesn't seem like the act of someone trying to hide that he's from the middle class

Yeah, Kanye's never pretended to be otherwise afaik

it seemed like one of his selling points back in the day

Also, people who want to downplay their upbringing don't regularly talk/rap/sing about their mom.

my point was that it doesn't get mentioned at all any more, and actually that vague generational dividing line is when it stopped being talked about - i'm well aware how much of a talking point it was in his early days thanks

could be because he's not particularly middle class anymore

How is it relevant now? Do people talk much about Jay-Z's drug-dealing in Marcy anymore? I don't understand what the value of restating it would be at this point.

bc as noz pointed out there is a lot to talk about re: class in rap right now that is not being talked about (not just kanye, obviously)

I see plenty of people engaging with Kanye over lines of class and gender? But that's probably quite dependent on who you're actually talking to. *files nails*

Also, flopson otm.

"i think it's kind of unchill for non-black middle class ppl to be like "kanye needs to own his MIDDLE CLASS privilege""

sure but nobody said that here

I really do think that Kanye's purest target audience are the advertising type, specifically male creatives.

― Van Horn Street, Monday, February 16, 2015 2:16 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it was really amusing a few years ago when it'd been clear he'd been hanging out with people from certain industries a lot and started referring to himself as "a creative" in the noun usage of the word

http://www.style.com/trends/fashion/2015/kanye-west-adidas-originals-interview

The Zara of verses

sure but nobody said that here

― based grandpa (noz), Monday, February 16, 2015 5:10 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it seemed like that's what lex was getting at but i think i misread him

I see plenty of people engaging with Kanye over lines of class and gender? But that's probably quite dependent on who you're actually talking to. *files nails*

Also, flopson otm.

― aybaybayfan (The Reverend), Monday, February 16, 2015 3:30 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you have examples of good music criticism that incorporate this critique feel free to link them instead of stunting

You might be aware that people other than music critics engage with music. And music criticism in general reflects those same disparities.

This discussion has gotten a little ridiculous. For ex:

the gentrification of rap and/or rap's critical gatekeepers has been a thing for a while, right? though it gets weirdly under-discussed, at least in those terms.

the idea that back in the '80s & '90s rap gatekeepers were primarily 'of the culture' and now they're not is pretty ahistorical. talk to anyone who was around back then, the staffs of places like Vibe or the Source or whatever were often pretty white, give or take the mind squad era or the ego trip staff. i mean ffs it was even 'white hipsters' like debbie harry & rick rubin who initially helped propel a lot of this stuff into the downtown art scene

& in fact the current criticism doesn't sound too far off from when ppl got aggy at puffy et al for trying to appeal to the white mainstream ... we should not pretend that white ppl & other outsiders who had no concept of the genre's history have often driven its developments, including some very important & musically interesting ones

You might be aware that people other than music critics engage with music. And music criticism in general reflects those same disparities.

― aybaybayfan (The Reverend), Monday, February 16, 2015 4:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i said 'music criticism' not 'music critics'

i'm not looking for ppl to tell me kanye west says bad things about women sometimes, i'm talking more abt the foundation on which his acclaim is built anyway

& in fact the current criticism doesn't sound too far off from when ppl got aggy at puffy et al for trying to appeal to the white mainstream ... we should not pretend that white ppl & other outsiders who had no concept of the genre's history have often driven its developments, including some very important & musically interesting ones

― deej loaf (D-40), Monday, February 16, 2015 4:59 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

too be clear, i'm speaking of artists negotiating audiences & communities by being cognizant of the different musical values which appear to each ... not saying white ppl revolutionized the art, but the clueless white's existence has been a driving force in its evolution since 'rappers delight' so

*appeal to each

You might be aware that people other than music critics engage with music.

how dare you, sir

yeah, i was just gonna say the noisey staff are the rick rubins of 2015, thanks deej

lol they might not be rick rubin but i guarantee you there were plenty of noisey staff equivalents putting 'the message' at the top of their pnj ballots

what is different now is that rather than appealing to white radio listeners kanye is taking the fight to the channels of power by arguing for artistic worthiness in the same terms that (i think?) critics like those at ILX have sort of tried to demolish? So he's almost running at the same problem from the opposite direction & we're like, no, we're trying to push everyone the other way

the noisey staff equivalents of 1982 were working at zines not voting in p&j

good posts deej

why do you guys bend over backwards to try to distinguish between one group of white gatekeepers and another group of white gatekeepers?

and you're still not tired of this weingarten-brand of anecdotal sociology? I'm gonna take noz's post above and cut out everything that isn't useless conjecture built upon more useless conjecture:

mbdtf bored me and still bores me
i loved yeezus for a while but have no desire to revisit
imo the most forward moments on all three records had more to do with him collaborating with and drawing on the works of more active innovators like wayne nicki and keef
the one thing that interested me about mbdtf was not how proggy it was but how much of it was built on a foundation of traditional breakbeats via 90s hip hop and also bmore club music which is a sister genre
runaway was built on top of a pete rock interlude

you forgot "that's a purely anecdotal observation"

brb, off to do several years of extensive and methodical research on the demographic makeup of kanye west's audience before i post in this thread again

People mix relatively hard research and journalism all the time, eg this LA Times survey on the OJ Simpson trial

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-09-26/news/mn-43283_1_o-j-simpson-case

which distinguished the LAT's coverage from the media's racist narrative of "white people think he's guilty and black people think he's innocent." I understand you're not writing in your capacity as a journalist, but what you're talking about is so nebulous and unimportant as to not even be worth writing about anywhere.

Deej bringin it

I had a dream I was in my bathroom, writing an essay abt Kanye
on the mirror
in lipstick
that mostly ripped off a Kiese Laymon essay abt him
I was like 'I gotta stpo thinking about Kanye'

this one mainly

http://gawker.com/5935845/kanye-west-is-better-at-his-job-than-i-am-at-mine-but-im-way-better-at-being-a-fake-ass-feminist

i just googled that after you said that and shit i love kiese laymon, what a writer

haha a day after my post

Who said it: Kanye vs your creative director

They used to talk about the Kanye generation divide on the Combat Jack show--Combat thought Yeezus was trash and his teenage kids tried to explain to him why it was Kanye's best album, and also why Childish Gambino was important.

Seems like most Kanye hate has nothing to do with his music, people just think he's annoying or something

― brimstead, Friday, February 13, 2015 9:12 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

obv is otm, I overheard some ppl discussing him being on the snl 40 show and they were so exasperated, seemingly actually upset like why is he even there?

nb soon after they were discussing their upcoming plans to go see aaron lewis from staind live in concert

long interview on the breakfast club this am - audio / excerpts here
http://revolt.tv/video/kanye-west-reveals-it-all-talks-amber-rose-ferguson-and-wolves-joint-project-with-drake/CBBED9FD-F506-403E-8253-F3E710E9EEE8

Countdown til Aaron Lewis guests on a Kanye disc.

I overheard some ppl discussing him being on the snl 40 show and they were so exasperated, seemingly actually upset like why is he even there?

I get the sense from non-music fans that they decided Kanye was over years ago and yet, like, say, Rush Limbaugh, he keeps popping up every few months to freshly annoy them

"non-music fans" // "plans to go see aaron lewis from staind live in concert"

yep, this checks out

It is true - people who don't like Kanye REALLY don't like Kanye. For many it seems the decision is based purely on his personality or the fractured media soundbites which create that personality - above any knowledge of his actual music. Which makes having a conversation between the two sides a curiously empty experience.

It is true - people who don't like Kanye REALLY don't like Kanye.

― Hinklepicker, Friday, February 20, 2015 3:13 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's what you should aim for

And there's plenty of people who hate him because he's associated with the Kardashians.

he just killed it on the brit awards with all day. gave a shout out to skepta too, which was cool, esp as there was a little grime influence to his flow.

It is true - people who don't like Kanye REALLY don't like Kanye. For many it seems the decision is based purely on his personality or the fractured media soundbites which create that personality - above any knowledge of his actual music. Which makes having a conversation between the two sides a curiously empty experience.

― Hinklepicker, Friday, February 20, 2015 2:13 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THIS

4 REAL

http://s18.postimg.org/5s51zoik9/Screen_Shot_2015_02_25_at_13_44_36.png

It's crazy he plucked Alan Kingdom out of St Paul to perform

Who's the dude on the right?

Oh, Zane Lowe.