Mitski

Mitski Mitski Mitski

http://www.thefader.com/2014/11/04/mitski-bury-me-at-makeout-creek

rough-hewn folk and discordant indie pop. It's streamlined by Mitski's radiant voice, which sounds about halfway between Jennifer Castle and Dee Dee Ramone.

Haven't listened to this Brooklyn resident yet, but does she really sound kinda like Dee Dee

Finally listening to this now, after reading hype for their DC gig last night with Eskimeaux and Elvis Depressedly. Bob Boilen at NPR loves her/them. She does not sound like Dee Dee Ramone.

Kind of a 90s indie emo feel to it

they just recorded an NPR Tiny Desk show

She/they were great when I saw hem open for Screaming Females a bit ago. Most recent album has some solid earworms.

Little bit of discussion of Mitski on the Speedy Ortiz thread:

Speedy Ortiz

FUCK

https://soundcloud.com/deadoceans/mitski-your-best-american-girl-3

http://pitchfork-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/content/mitski%20art.jpg

JUNE 17

whoa this is gr8

YES!! Is it premature to call it my favourite album of the year without hearing it? This song is everything.

Mitski/Oranssi Pazuzu '16

And as Brad will surely remind us, "I like it when you sleep...." isn't on Spotify for another week

this is such a beautiful noise tho, she's gone widescreen

new song is so plodding and tuneless. nothing she's done has been as good as "Townie," incredible song

... ?

this song is all tune

also i love puberty 2 as an album title, one thing that strikes me about mitski is she's incredibly funny

it's a brilliant title yeah, love the cover font too

new song is so plodding and tuneless.

o_O

This song is massive and beautiful and makes my heart swell.

would just like to reiterate how fucking amazing this song is

we were reflecting on that very fact the other night

It is my favourite song of the year so far. Definitely going to see her in April! Excited daily about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_hDHm9MD0I

fuck i haven't related to something so deeply specific in a while, this is a great video

Yeah, I have feelings about this video. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but if I am, I don't want to be right.

(Love/partnership/etc looks appealing from afar, then when you see it on full display you realize how absurd and ridiculous it is.)

I'm still working out how I feel about the production but, yeah, good tune. It clicks better for me without the video but I'm weird like that. It's funny: in my head, she is the singer for Voice Coils first and foremost. The solo work seems on paper like something that I would write off as retro-90s alt-rock meh but her voice and melodies can make it connect.

Putting it on for the fourth time.

Sixth.

It is super addictive, yeah.

<i>It's funny: in my head, she is the singer for Voice Coils first and foremost. </i>

this is so goofy to me; I didn't know anyone had ever seen Voice Coils

Haven't seen the video yet but the song does that thing where the first chorus is the best thing ever, then the second chorus comes in really quickly and it's twice as good as the first chorus. These are all the feels post-metal was going for, packed into three minutes and intensified

shes no longer in voice coils ftr

I haven't seen Voice Coils live if that's what you meant, Jimmy, but they made some of my favourite rock music from the last couple of years.

I mean, I recognize that more people are probably familiar with her indie singer-songwriter work than with the glorious prog of Voice Coils. That's why it's funny.

ya i think we approach this funny in the same way but from opposite ends lulz

Still pissed her UK date sold out in basically seconds

guess she's more popular overseas; still tix available for the show in my town.

def agree w/ brad's comment upthread that she's v funny.

Yeah, I have feelings about this video. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but if I am, I don't want to be right.

(Love/partnership/etc looks appealing from afar, then when you see it on full display you realize how absurd and ridiculous it is.)

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:32 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark

don't forget the racial aspect

The racial aspect seems like the key element in it (I saw a story online where she acknowledges this). Japanese woman spurned by clean-cut white American boy who first leads her on

Yeah, I picked up on that too after I read the story, but initially I thought she really captured and condensed the timeline of "this person I like likes me" -> "oh no, this person is with someone else now" -> "look at those assholes!"

lol I guess that's a difference between you and me in that that's literally the first thing i noticed 10 seconds in

don't forget the racial aspect

― 龜, Friday, April 15, 2016 4:12 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

https://soundcloud.com/deadoceans/mitski-happy-1

I love the sound of that sax.

shove off radiohead, this is more like it

the ending is the most wonderfully antisocial thing i've heard all year <3

this album's going to be great

:'D

this is so good

so so crushed by "i bet on losing dogs"

Yeah it's a nice listen, this.

WHERE

disappointed tbh

will listen to the album properly when it's released

so so crushed by "i bet on losing dogs"

Wow, you are not wrong.

This track is crushing me this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_hDHm9MD0I

(which, duh, has already been posted. Should have scrolled farther up first)

I'll want to spend some time with the new album before taking about it, but it's streaming now: http://www.npr.org/2016/06/01/480340979/first-listen-mitski-puberty-2

:'D

album is very good

^^^^

I haven't hyped anything to myself as much in ages, but I'm not disappointed. It's wonderful. I just wish it was like, ten minutes longer.

Getting some very Cardigans vibes from Thursday Girl and Crack Baby.

A buncha US East Coast gigs sold out quick.

Omg, "My Body's Made of Crushed Little Stars"

Yes! That is a stand-out. I also loved I Bet On Losing Dogs. So powerful.

I tried getting tickets to see her over a month before her last gig in London and they'd sold out! Bought my tickets for October already.

as i said upthread "i bet on losing dogs" kills me

shit this is so good

Tracks 4-8 are untouchable.

seriously

This is cool. I really like Fireworks.

The Singles Jukebox reviews her single tomorrow.

Quite a twist in the video for Happy.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkjiKnBVEAIRpBU.jpg

'Sup, Spin.

hm, that's amazing. "My Body's Made of Crushed Little Stars" is an incredible song, the only standout for me so far. But it'll take some time with the rest. That song though, boy.

first song sounds like Xiu Xiu

almost all of this lady's influences seem pretty 1990s, this album could've come out when i was in college. not a bad thing. just not entirely what i expected.

second track sounds like late-70s Wire

it couldn't have come out in the 90s - the production is quite hi-tech

anyway it's bloody amazing yeah

i'm not so keen on tracks 2 and 3 but they're still at least good. the rest is fucking brilliant.

Totally sounds like a Greg Saunier production

"once more to see you" kinda interrupts the flow in a way that i find really distracting, otherwise i love everything else about this record

late to this, but it's beautiful <3

'dan the dancer' (the wire-a-like) is the one i'm not really sold on, because it doesn't really resolve, but maybe that's the point. colin newman would approve. i don't mind 'once more to see you' so much coz it's too lovely to hate on, if a bit weirdly sequenced

everything from 'fireworks' onward is straight fire incredible album and perfectly sequenced

I'm in

The whole record just sounds really great on big speakers too

Never thought I'd put together a sentence like this, but when there Weezer-y guitars kick in on Your Best American Girl it's like =D

is she particularly worth seeing live? playing a likely to be sold out show this saturday at a venue that is really uncomfortable when crowded... love the album btw

she is absolutely worth seeing live

yep

i liked her live more than my friends did, but if you love the album you'll prob love the show.

thats the one i am going to flopson! and the first time i have been there since its new name

i've been there many times since. better but it still sucks lol

you got a ticket, Will?

yup... bought mine a few weeks ago because i thought it was gonna sell out.

nice. i just got one

not going to assume this is a new observation but your best american girl is wheatus teenage dirtbag

dead oceans is pretty alright they are carrying the young god records mantle well

first half of puberty is rocking my socks. not feeling the second half.

anybody who is also just getting into mitski - have a listen to 'retired from sad...' LP from 2013. great piano work

Listening to the new Ryan Hemsworth single and wondering why it's more enjoyable than the previous two - it's got Mitski!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO4WW1-7iSY

i bought this record without really having a feel for whether i liked it or not--there can be no debating that she's doing something interesting, at least--and thought it might be sort of like a less-funny xiu xiu. between the mid-90s downstrokiness and neuroses fully on display what it actually comes across as is maybe the truest descendent of pinkerton.

This is cool. I really like Fireworks.

Yes. That is a doozy of a song.

so...Your Best American Girl is the best song anyone's gonna release this year, huh

p much, although keep tabs on Weyes Blood as well

i loved that last Weyes Blood album, thanks for reminding me to check in on her

found this: http://songexploder.net/mitski

interesting breakdown of YBAG

I'm not typically a person who places a great deal of value on lyrics, but the "Your mother wouldn't approve of how my mother raised me / but I do, I think I do" (and later "I finally do") really punches me in the heart for some reason. It's such a wide open doorway into inhabiting someone else's life for 3 minutes, especially when your own experience is totally different.

it was you and you alone that he had shown his bedroom dancer to

Ha, wrote about this album last night for our record club blog, and that's the lyric I plucked out. Because it's amazing.

Also wiki says it's her 26th birthday today. Happy birthday!

i finally saw mitski this weekend after listening to her all summer. it was a super sketchy show. tension was in the air from the start. mitski was complaining of sound woes from the offset, and after playing two songs as a band (her producer, a drummer and herself) she told her band to leave the stage and said that she'd rather play a solo show ("with a missing string") where "pitch and timing isn't an issue". she played about 5 songs on her own from here, was visibly irritated and tense, and then asked for requests. i yelled out 'fireworks' - she played a few chords of it, and then decided she couldn't remember it. she also couldn't tune her guitar. after pacing around for a while, she called for "my band" to return to the stage. they didn't seem to want to head back out, so she done a 180 and did play fireworks. they took to the stage after that to end the set with one loud song together. i left feeling weird about the whole thing and she seemed a little bit of a diva about the situation. i guess all shows can't be great for a performer. i believe fault lied both in the band and the sound engineers... but who knows.

well, we're seeing her on thursday and we're super stoked so whatever lol

i guess i'm not that bothered she wrote some good songs and that's all that really fucking matters.

that sounds like a real unusual situation. she was incredible live opening for speedy last year

if she takes requests she's already more audience-receptive than 95% of artists. and she's neurotic as anything - it's a crucial factor in her art - no surprise at all that she feels tension or irritation at all times, as is her right

fireworks would be my request too fyi

oh god i KNEW they'd roll out Trust Fund as support, much as they did when Speedy Ortiz visited last year. much as i want to like them they really haven't written any songs yet

I saw her say on Twitter once how she felt upset that some audiences gave her stick for not always having a full band live. It might be that she's not so accustomed to that set up. And yeah, like imago mentioned, her own internal struggles probably contribute enormously to the stress of being on tour. She's hardly full of self-love and it must be so hard to negotiate everything under a pretty sudden and full-on spotlight. I think it'll be great to see her regardless of emotional tension, and I hope she adjusts well to her massively deserved success in the long run and releases another ten albums as good as the last two.

Aaw Trust Fund are cute.

trust fund are darlings. i hang out with them in my town. the two records they put out last year are both amazing pop songs start to finish.

tangent, yes. i agree with your sentiments. i guess i just wanted to report the show. it was strange.

omg Trust Fund are WAY better than last time, that was great

Being a singing-drummer three-piece suits them and it turns out they have a few lovely songs :'D

anyway, Mitski impendeth

omg she did ...crushed Little stars as her encore it was the best encore ever

am I alone in getting strong Annie Clarke/St. Vincent vibes from this?

the comparison has been made on RYM quite a lot, but I'm not entirely convinced

also imo comparing female solo artists to each other is a fine habit to get out of

I am allowed to compare male artists to male artists though?

it's mostly the melodic style and vocal delivery, compare Mitski "Happy" to St. Vincent "Strange Mercy":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ0O2vDT0VE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JwXCBi-Eh8

Saw her in Durham, NC tonight. No tense vibes, and the crowd adored her. Power trio format for most of the show, with Mitski on bass sounding like she'd borrowed her rig from Bob Weston. She was magnetic. Plus she earned my goodwill forever for explicitly declining to play the obligatory encore. "When it's over, it's over... let's no go through that social ritual" (or words to that effect).

can't stop listening to your best american girl

Finally shelled out for this after spinning it on Spotify all the time. Does anyone else find the distorted guitar timbres really harsh and digital-sounding? I really like the tunes and voice but I don't think I understand the production choices on this album.

it really works on my body's made of crushed little stars, but otherwise I agree with you- the rest of the album sounds very cold.

it is a bit hard on the ears

much contemporary music is...

Finally I like a song within the ILM top 50!
I've just heard Your Best American Girl today, feel like it sounds really like something I've listened to within the past year or so, but what??

and I don't mean Weezer

Sister by Angel Olsen?

Two Step by Throwing Muses?

Crying?

Crying is dope

def

That song fireworks

one of my favourites

as someone already said upthread, i believe, the run from Fireworks to Crushed Little Stars is stop-you-in-your-tracks good.

i like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnhTkFl5Imw

sounds like first album charli xcx

yeah i really like that too. also because i've always felt i would like xiu xiu more if it wasn't for JS' voice.

New album Be The Cowboy in August. First single "Geyser" today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zdFZJf-B90

second half of that is incredible jeez

uh wow

!

Some confluence with Crying maybe

Mitski Mitski Mitski

https://media.pitchfork.com/photos/5af65a3e09d5ee50c49e8b98/master/pass/doc150.lp.fc.cover.1600%20(2).jpg

01 Geyser
02 Why Didn’t You Stop Me
03 Old Friend
04 A Pearl
05 Lonesome Love
06 Remember My Name
07 Me and My Husband
08 Come Into the Water
09 Nobody
10 Pink in the Night
11 A Horse Named Cold Air
12 Washing Machine Heart
13 Blue Light
14 Two Slow Dancers

Yessss!

I'm so excited for this. The single is brilliant.

"Geyser" is nuts, I'm into it. I like the soundtrack tune w/ Xiu Xiu a lot too.

On first listen it's the Xiu Xiu tune that positively nuts for, but Geyser too is great. Stoked.

I assumed that Geyser must've been a mid-album tune because of the way it starts. It's so impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qooWnw5rEcI

at some point this song turns into saint etienne

i'm ecstatic

I like how she’s turned into a big ol ham in her videos

I Love everything about this. The last 45 seconds in particular is a real moment.

Feel like this album could well be a classic.

omg I cannot express how much I love this

Song of the year for me at this point. That final key change!

jaysus this is so good. video too

lol it's finally the k.d. lang / stereolab crossover that we never realised we needed!

Don't Cry for Mitski: Can the most emotional indie songwriter out there move on with her musical life without breaking hearts?

She's 27?!

How old did you think she was? Sounds about right to me

Yeah, idk why that would be surprising.

because her puberty album was just a few years ago, LOL!

fans of mitski, her producer Patrick recorded the new trust fund album. he is on the cover. its fun and silly.
https://trustfund.bandcamp.com/album/bringing-the-backline

One of the best albums of the year - I've sung its praises fruitlessly on two other threads - maybe it'll get more traction here. They did a great job supporting Mitski a couple years back

ha I think 27 just seems impossibly young to me. especially to have several albums. but I guess it's not that weird! I just feel like I have achieved nothing of worth!

Bury me at makeout creek is very very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUfkfJfsKrc

wow that's gorgeous

My first impressions of the record are that it's full songs with very funny lines like Nobody, but that Nobody is the standout track on it.

I feel like as I get to know more of them it'll seen more even. Anyway... v v v good.

it's rare for pop musicians to grind it to a halt like this, a la 'low'... perfect!

so much of this seems to be extraordinary but the last three songs stood out for me in particular

enjoying this a lot but i do wish she'd let her songs be a bit longer and let the ideas breathe a little more. in this piece she says that her songs are deliberately short as "I’m not a straight white guy. No one’s going to listen to me noodle for 45 minutes" but that seems like an almost self-defeating attitude?

Geyser and Two Slow Dancers are as about as perfect an opener and closer as you can get

Voice Coils did some ≈5m songs fwiw. Her comment seems odd to me, honestly, especially when it comes after her saying that she had deliberately been seeking out venues where people didn't want to hear her.

This is beautiful! The singles aren't necessarily even my favourite tracks, which wasn't the case for Puberty 2. This is all so strong! I don't mind the short track lengths...it makes it feel more poignant and transitory.

Nobody is not the standout at all imo - this is brilliant and there's a few album tracks (Why Didn't You Stop Me, A Pearl, Washing Machine Heart) that are as great as anything she's done. The melodic choices!

Great album. It did take me a few plays to get my head round the brief and odd song structures, but everything has started to click pretty quickly. Nobody is still the best song I've heard all year.

i was so sure that the loud organ fading down at the start of geyser was secretly a transition from a previous track, then this morning i grabbed the album and it's track 1, lol

i'm only at nobody on my first listen and nothing but the singles have jumped out in a good way yet, guess i'll have to listen about 43 more times today!

ok nvm yeah play 2 and i like everything except me and my husband because it sounds too much like the opening theme for home movies

it sounds like a blur song haha

the only track i dislike is the horse one because it's too radiohead

there ends much of this album's similarity to 90s uk rock

baby, though i've closed my eyes
i know who you pretend i am
i know who you pretend i am

imo the short track lengths accentuate the feeling of ambiguity in a good way! sure it'll be a grower viscerally but the songwriting's strong all the way through

i.e. agree w tt lol

I've only heard the three lead songs from this particular album, all of which I like a lot. Tbc, though, I don't have any problem at all with Mitski's track lengths in general. I did raise an eyebrow at the idea that i) writing longer pieces of music as opposed to shorter ones is a matter of straight white male privilege and ii) this is the reason why Mitski of all people sticks to short songs.

where was that expressed? on this thread or did mitski say that?

short songs are good

short Mitski songs are very good

short Mitski songs on Be the Cowboy are just truly great

Yeah this is an absurdly good record

I think there will be an increasing trend toward shorter songs and albums given how people listen to music now/how our brains are all fried by social media. There have been a few notable 30 minute-ish albums recently

Treesh, it was in the Time piece that ufo linked:

Almost every song in her discography is under three minutes. This isn’t an artistic choice, Mitski stresses–it’s tactical: “I’m not a straight white guy. No one’s going to listen to me noodle for 45 minutes.”

interesting. yeah, i kind of think that it's wrong to take from that quote, as time did, that she has "tactically" decided to release only 2ish minute long song, anticipating sexist impatience. sounds like she has some idea about white male privilege being connected to artistic indulgence though

immediately i love this 1000x more than puberty 2 which i already thought was great

way to keep taking it to the next level mitski

feel like musicians are writing more sub-2 minute songs these days.

Molina, Pinegrove guy, Mitski...uh, I had others when I thought about this earlier.

joyce manor

One local guy that recorded some of my old bands albums had this theory that second verses and choruses should be shorter than the first ones because the listeners have already heard it before, he's kind of eccentric in terms of having a lot of these little philosophical rules and I don't really agree but I found it useful to think about in terms of cutting out the fat in songs or thinking about stuff that maybe didn't need to be there

Ha, that quote rules

To be fair I would listen to Mitski noodle for 45 minutes.

Yeah this is an absurdly good record

― Trϵϵship, Friday, August 17, 2018 4:30 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

re the theory that 'second verses and choruses should be shorter than the first ones ' i had never stopped to think about the structure of 'your best american girl' until a week ago and it's the most extreme demonstration of this imaginable. well, viz. verses, anyway.

This album v.v.good. I'm all for short albums, regardless of who's making them.

this album is really excellent

what are some of the consensus best tracks (i've named mine above)

To be fair I would listen to Mitski noodle for 45 minutes.

― Van Horn Street, Friday, 17 August 2018 22:47 (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes please. As a "mixtape" or "playlist" or some nonsense.

Album is fire bops

Puberty 2 had that incredible run in the middle and YBAG is a crazy high peak but this album is much more consistently strong, imo

^^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtXPxXBWsVk

her live show seems drastically improved for this tour

Ugh I was all set to accept this as a new direction and prepared to love it based on the reviews but it's all so stodgy.

I'm listening to 'Nobody' and there's a brilliant song in there trying to get out, but the way the band attack every beat of the bar with the same emphasis just traps it. The whole album feels stymied by these gallumphing arrangements.

The melodic choices!

― imago, 17. august 2018 14:44 (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thanks for this! I started listening for this, and I think it kinda opened up the music for me. Thanks ILX, short incisive posts like this is why I don't leave.

Well, I don't get 'stodgy' as a criticism as the songwriting is so lithe and concise. All sorts of melodic and textural surprises packed into these intense little songs - nothing goes on for longer than it has to, and there's still plenty of elegance in the composition. Perhaps you mean that there isn't much time to relax - there's always something changing - and it makes demands on your concentration accordingly. Focusing on one of the louder tracks and extrapolating 'gallumphing arrangements' from a necessarily escalating and dramatic discopop vignette makes me think you haven't listened very attentively. The album is very obviously playing on the tension between vivid art-pop and immiserated garage brevity, and you've got to be able to handle both

I haven't heard her before this, I really like the slow songs and Nobody but with the rest, for me, they are gone before they've made any impact.

I'm all on favor of the short song structures and lack of repetition. It does make it tricky to grasp on to tracks at times, but repeated listens help.

Her voice, melodies, and chord progressions all remind me of Weyes Blood, so I'm not surprised imago is drawn to this.

Back in my rock band days in the 90s, we got to the point with our song writing process where we would mercilessly shave down and cut parts to avoid any unnecessary repetitions as much as possible. Didn't go quite as far as Mitski here, but I can very much understand that impulse to want to keep things as tight as possible and not lose an audience's attention. It got to the point where it was real tricky to convince everyone to try a song that was more vamp oriented, that intentionally repeated a progression over and over.

I've thought it was something like 'stodgy' before, but what I find now is that while the arrangements might feel like that, the litheness and conciseness of the songwriting and of Mitski's voice creates a really interesting wholeness.

This record is much more Weyes Blood-y than her previous stuff, yes - it had occurred to me

I'd be feeling the vocals and melodies if the guitars and drums (and keyboards sometimes, even on the gentler songs) didn't pound along in such a leaden way - like these songs would sound so much better if they weren't just bashing every beat of the bar like children. I can't work out if its a deliberate aesthetic decision or if it's just ineptness, I suspect it's the former and that's actually more annoying.

The album is very obviously playing on the tension between vivid art-pop and immiserated garage brevity, and you've got to be able to handle both

This doesn't really have much to do with the point I was making but hey.

I'm prepared to go full forensic in order to refute your actual post as lazy listening, but I'll probably need a musicologist. Where's Sund4r?

Haha, I'm stuck on a work call, but I've been waiting impatiently for it to end so I can throw this on and see if I can make sense of Matt's criticism.

I haven't listened enough to dial it up by memory, but my initial reaction is that it is a highly varied album that doesn't stay in place for long.

Matt DC is kinda right. The instrumentation isn't that rhythmically complex, I think, but the voice is adding a lot of variation. I definitely think it's an aesthetic choice, it makes Mitski sounds as if she's constantly straining against the world, or dancing across it's borders.

I can understand why someone would call this stodgy but then the whole genre Mitski operates in might be called stodgy? Matt, I'd be interested in hearing something in a similar vain but something you wouldn't consider stodgy.

This is a potential album of the year for me, it grows more on me than other Mitski records did.

She's very into these portentous chord progressions that land very squarely on the down beats with little syncopation, giving it all a slightly doom-y quality. Going back to Weyes Blood, it's very much the approach you hear in "Do You Need My Love", but boiled down to it's barest essence. I do think there's plenty of dynamic range across the album, but she really likes hits those quarter notes dead on. I associate that style with a lot of Beatles tracks like "Penny Lane" or "Getting Better".

I deal with the short, slippery-to-grasp songs by just listening to the whole thing as one big piece ... like Richard Buckner's The Hill or something.

Eventually, individual tracks will start to stand out.

So to go back to Nobody, the disco guitar sounds nice and rhythmic and limber, but good god those piano chords, those drums, just bashing away with equal emphasis on every beat, that's what I mean by gallumphing.

I like lots of similar stuff in this vein - Weyes Blood is pretty different IMO but there's a subtlety there that's absent from the arrangements here. The US Girls album as well, although that actually knows what to do with a rhythm section.

US Girls is totally and utterly a different everything to this

Lmao Mitski sounds absolutely nothing like U.S. Girls or Weyes Blood, and to make these comparisons is an absolute disservice to all three of these artists

I had a WB vibe, too

xp

Gee, sorry. I think all 3 will probably survive this highly tendentious display of subjective viewpoints by internet shut-ins.

Yeah I don't really get the WB thing. I don't think it's *that* similar to US Girls either but I was responding to Van Horn Street's question about stuff in the same broad genre that sounds less stodgy. It's not like I was comparing her to Jana Rush or Tifa or whoever.

she really likes hits those quarter notes dead on. I associate that style with a lot of Beatles tracks like "Penny Lane" or "Getting Better".

This nails it. I'm not keen on it on Beatles records but when I hear newer bands default to that rhythmic approach I just assume it's because they can't think of anything else do to. I don't think that's the case here but it still kills my enjoyment of the songs.

I have a lot of affection for that style, so I'm good with newer artists referencing it, but yes, it is a bit of a cliché.

it doesn't sound very good but i like her songwriting, most modern records don't sound very good imo

sounded p nice to me?? im not convinced yet the songwriting is as good as on pube2

her singing is *extremely* mannered...to me it's unrealistic to expect any sort of lithe agile arrangements around this vocal style. she also didn't use full band arrangements at all on P2, iirc everything was played by her or the producer. is it different on this one? that method of production again doesn't lend itself to much dexterity.

i think her project has its limits but based on one listen this record is more than successful within them.

i also think the stunted nature of the music and singing is part of the package, like the performative romance novel unbridled longing stuff is enhanced by doing the music this way

o me it's unrealistic to expect any sort of lithe agile arrangements around this vocal style. she also didn't use full band arrangements at all on P2, iirc everything was played by her or the producer. is it different on this one?

No. But I quibble about "lithe" and "agile."

i think i was just looking for the opposites of galumphing. her music is certainly squarely on-beat and i don't think it's supposed to be subtle--for what she's doing these are features not bugs.

holy fuck is a pearl incredible

Bit of an Elliott Smith vibe off it in the sense that it's extremely tightly constructed and constrained by the lack of live-band-ness. His songs too were very short.

If you really take in the full-bodied arrangements while letting the songwriting bounce you around the emotional register like paroxysms, I have no doubt that this album can be a powerful experience. The thing is that the songs demand that you are very easily enthused by that prospect.

Maybe it's me who is just emotionally stunted, but I never felt like anything here grabbed me and took me in. I felt like a had to submit in order to get on her frequency.

That is an interesting take.

i just think that if you don't like pop maximalism very much this probably isn't for you

idk i'll go through this track by track later

I don't feel like I had to work to enjoy this. It caught my attention right away.

Mine too. "Blue Light" is the only one I skip (at the moment).

some of y'all think way too much

I never felt like anything here grabbed me and took me in. I felt like a had to submit in order to get on her frequency.

this is how i feel about Mitski, also Hop Along, Paramore, most of the pop/rock/indie stuff ppl enthuse about here, and I think getting older is to blame for much of it

but man, when Geyser really kicks in at 1:20...that's a goosebump moment.

yeah if Geyser doesn't grab you then idk what to say

(I'm going to abandon ILX house style and do this like a RYM review, as is right)

track by track for all u neurotypical twats who don't get this exquisite aspie vibe (yes i just diagnosed mitski, w/e, it's my club too) (also obv u don't have to be aspie to enjoy this BUT IT PROBABLY HELPS)

geyser

gentle start with instantly queering touches like quietening organ drone, crazy glitch. no beats to even galumph over. slowly a tambourine enters, chords are lush. drums playing sparse 3-time beat. then suddenly the keyboards lurch in and the guitars and it's not so much galumphing as CRUSHING and SOARING at the same time, it is violent and the only way some people can process this is by saying 'oo er the drums and keys are playing every beat' but actually if u listen properly it's got a swinging sea-shanty beat, there's a canon between guitars and keys, there's a lot going on obv but u say it like she is just banging away like some teenage punk and that is bollocks, there is so much craft here

why didn't you stop me?

this might be the best track on the album (it's this or 'a pearl') and sure this one actually has a keyboard oscillation thru the whole song that by necessity plays every beat. i won't even bother to defend it except to say that the rest of the wildly varying instrumentation and contrasting sections build up into a beautiful and kickass quasi-britpop climax and u don't deserve mitski

old friend

this one has a slow, swinging beat that is constantly shifting time signature. it has an organ drone and sparse piano chords and the occasional keyboard flourish. oh but what about the guitar behind playing every beat please miss please please miss what about that guitar????!? well here's an idea why don't we ask kraftwerk why their songs needed a pulse to build around, the boring cunts! hey neu you're playing every beat! booooo

a pearl

this is just a fucking amazing song, nothing galumphing about it at all. it just sweeps over u so gracefully. lazy little drumbeat, then guitar explodes in, all while these long melodic phrases unwind at their leisure, then guitars explode in even harder playing these unearthly droning notes as everything gets echoplexed to fuck while still sounding laconic and resigned i mean what are you listening to

lonesome love

another shuffling lazy beat w/ same acoustic strum pattern, obv a country pastiche but takes this really dark turn for its iconic chorus which it does not repeat because it doesn't have to

remember my name

ok this one has some sort of treated guitar playing every beat, along with the bass and the drums FAIR PLAY YOU GOT HER THIS TIME. it's also a fantastic song w/ loads of lovely subtle touches. u have me riled. i mean i'd hardly call this 'galumphing', it moves quite slyly. the palette is intense but the execution is sophisticated

me and my husband

this is the one that sounds most like 'penny lane' or blur or w/e. it's a superficial similarity, call and response low and high notes, but it still has that shuffle and laconic attitude seen in almost all the tracks here. occasional organ flourish. other keys low in the mix. beautiful song.

come into the water

this is a little ambient folk-pop exercise fgs

nobody

galumphing discopop & the only track matt dc can remember. oh and the insistence is obv deliberately playing against the desperation of the lyrics and the melody i mean sure this isn't for u but it's not trying to be straight disco so please don't treat it like she ruined a potentially good song

pink in the night

another ambient pop exercise that plays around in the lower registers of your mind. loads of space in the mix. loads of long-held notes. when the martial drumbeat comes in it plays off that space and texture. it is an aesthetic and it's done so well

a horse named cold air

this song doesn't even have drums, just some really sparse piano chords and keyboard washes. i don't like it as much as the other tracks cos it sounds like 'pyramid song' too much but it is a nice pause for reflection. obv to call this 'galumphing' will see u laughed out of the room

washing machine heart

oh god no no oh god it's ANOTHER KEYBOARD PULSE THAT GOES ON ALL SONG! run and hide! shit the drums are doing it too! aaaaah! and there's more keys, but they're syncopated! and a guitar playing some lovely subtle chords! and she's singing a heavenly melody! what is this bastard mix of galumph and elegance?! why cant i handle it? (third best track btw)

blue light

here's that swinging, shuffling beat she used earlier (on 'lonesome love', fact fans!) but this time it's even sadder and stranger, the melody starts strong but almost immediately gets swallowed up in echoes and keyboard washes. the song retreats, hides, is lost. i think that's beautiful myself but maybe you're still listening to see if the drums are playing every beat (they're not)

two slow dancers

this song galumphs about as much as you'd expect a song called 'two slow dancers' to. there's a pulse that goes on the whole time, but it only plays one beat per bar (throughout the album, pulses playing against non-pulses has been a key part of the songwriting aesthetic). fun detail: the keyboards, when they flourish the first time, shift from playing on the beat to this perfectly woozy syncopation, echoing mitski's intonation of 'we're just two slow dancers'. it's genius

anyway i only did this because i fucking hate lazy criticism and to see it coming from a sitemod is doubly depressing. peace

was there a way to do that without being a dick at the end

the ending was more facetious than hostile tbh, i do not mean any malice

i just think that if you don't like pop maximalism very much this probably isn't for you

― imago, Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:02 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is strange -- I like this album but besides "Geyser" and possibly a couple seconds of "Nobody" nothing about this album is maximalist at all, it's very low-key and mid-range emotionally.

well in my close-listening post there i discover that yeah while there's a lot going on there is a laconic & very defeated vibe at the heart of these songs

(and this is coming from someone who very much likes pop maximalism -- like, something like Goldfrapp's "Ocean" is maximalist. or to keep things in the same general singer-songwriter vein, St. Vincent's "Fear the Future" is maximalist. maybe my bar for maximalist is just set way higher in music, it's set way higher in everything else in life after all)

i wonder if we have different definitions of maximalism. i think this is maximalist because the music has a lot of layers working in different but mutually-beneficial ways, but emotionally it is very melancholy. i don't think that stops it from being maximalist

xp -- yeah, "laconic and defeated" is key and it's basically what she's said in every interview. like "Lonesome Love" is a hollowed-out <i>She Hangs Brightly</i> track -- it's basically exactly "Be My Angel"-- and it being hollowed-out and anti-climactic, pun intended, is the whole point

listening to 'fear the future' now (reluctantly as imo st vincent got p bad, 'actor' is still good) and i don't see how this is any more maximalistic than mitski. tbh its layers seem to be working more straightforwardly together than mitski's. there's electronic beats and big keyboards but it kind of just coalesces into one big thudding sugary triumphalist soup

I mean, if you can't hear a fundamental difference in musical and emotional scale I'm not sure how to ever explain this

also not sure I'd apply the term "triumphalist" to a track that goes, very loudly, "I FEAR THE FUTURE," but

willing to bet what is left of my reputation on the average track on 'be the cowboy' having more layers than the average track on 'masseduction'. not that number of layers maps perfectly onto how maximalist something is but...yeah

number of layers has nothing to do imo with how maximalist something sounds either on a literal level -- tracks tend to have a lot of layers that simply aren't obviously heard -- or figuratively. like, a cliff is more maximalist than an onion, even if the cliff is just one huge chunk of solid rock and the onion has dozens of layers

a cliff comprises thousands of fossilised strata

no shit, that is why I specified "even if"

:D

I realized 'Two Slow Dancers' was the track I disliked, not "Blue Light."

Contemporary maximalist music is defined by composer David A. Jaffe as that which "embraces heterogeneity and allows for complex systems of juxtapositions and collisions, in which all outside influences are viewed as potential raw material".[7] Examples include the music of Edgard Varèse, Charles Ives, and Frank Zappa.[8] In a different sense, Milton Babbitt has been described as a "professed maximalist", his goal being, "to make music as much as it can be rather than as little as one can get away with".[9] Richard Toop, on the other hand, considers that musical maximalism "is to be understood at least partly as 'antiminimalism'".[10] Kanye West's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (2010) has also been described as a maximalist work.[11][12]

if you're going to copy paste from wikipedia at least remove the footnote tags

imago, are you really going to argue these points

this exquisite aspie vibe (yes i just diagnosed mitski, w/e

Wow, with defenders like this...

anyway I'd make the opposite argument -- I do like this album, but if you are looking for maximalism then it isn't for you, and your reaction will probably be that nothing is as good as "Geyser," that "Nobody" is tepid as disco goes, and that everything else is solidly fine

And that's the trick, I think. "Nobody" isn't disco -- it's disco-influenced, uses disco as one might a citation in a paper.

obviously

well with the additional bit of context that 90% of songs these days seem to be disco-influenced so the trick doesn't seem as novel

it isn't close to being my favourite track on the album but it doesn't sound like an iteration we've heard much of before

I preferred it as a single but it's fine.

see I agree with Matt on this one, if you're going to do disco you have to do the disco. doing half-hearted disco as a songwriting trick might have worked in 1998 but not in 2018 when every person in the universe is making half-hearted disco as a matter of course. nothing to do with the content either -- "Dancing on My Own" wouldn't work either if the instrumental wasn't huge

Great, I'm now hearing the words "a cliff comprises thousands of fossilised strata" to the tune of the Science Facts from Nobody

i don't find it half-hearted. it's obviously executed well if unsubtly (which is UNLIKE the rest of the album) - it's definitely a bold centrepiece amidst the greater sophistication and complexity of the surrounding tracks. the way it ends is the biggest clue to its function - the high-octane attempt to burst free that fails. obviously failure, in some sense, is in most if not all of these songs and that isn't a way of excusing flaws - the album is extremely good at failing, falling apart, managing its own pathos

also lol will

yes, the ending is key, but the ending would have even more impact if the disco had more oomph

well as i say it isn't my favourite track. i wish we'd talk about the other songs more

(and there's of course the perennial issue that even if perfectly executed, in every possible way, does exactly the songwriting job it is intended to do in the best way possible, it's still a half-hearted disco track when there are other disco tracks that are not half-hearted that can be listened to instead. this is incredibly frustrating because I do like this album, I just don't personally love it, and I think for me the maximalism issue is why)

The creepy comfort offered by "Me and My Husband" gets me every time.

I really like "Nobody", it's a very moving track for me, even if it is not authentic disco. The vocal melodies and chord changes are really masterful the way they wind in some unexpected directions. Probably my favorite, along with "Old Friend".

my favorite track at this point is probably "Come Into the Water," which is perfectly hushed and grapples with a thing not always grappled with in this way

FWIW I do like the vocal melodies on this but the production/arrangements really do kill my enjoyment of it as a whole.

"Nobody" has a really nice build, but it builds to a fairly predictable place, musically--it's enough for me because that chorus melody is incredible, it seems to mimic a sweeping melody that in a classic disco would have been delivered by the string section

yeah, that feels about right

I don't find 'Nobody' to be particularly half-hearted (if anything its enthusiasm is part of the problem, it's just a bit clunky). But then this is the same sort of circular argument you get when indie acts try their hand at other genres - ("yeah but why is the execution so clunky" vs "no the clunkiness is part of the point"). And I suppose it's that latter viewpoint which is what irritates me about modern indie culture.

but when it morphs at the end into something else, that's where it becomes elegant. elegance and clunkiness in eternal dialectic

lj and matt dc both making a pretty great case against this album

the three lead songs

These are still the standouts for me, after several listens. "Nobody" is incredible imo (and I don't want it to be 'real' disco) but so far the album as a whole hasn't grabbed me as immediately as the last one.

album is fire

There is something about her vocals—a pervading sadness that even disco can’t lighten

well, performers often used disco to convey sadness, hysteria, or both.

true. i still perceive a tension between the vocals and the backing track in this song.

like that little bossa nova "nobody nobody" when she is saying nobody wants her

nobody reminds me of lovefool for some reason, which distracted me at first but i have made peace with it now

geyser is so colossal, and has been my favourite song of the year since the day it came out, that it's gonna take a lot of momentum for anything on this album to topple it. But, A Pearl sure is making a case. What a song

Yes, it definitely sounds like a more muscular "Lovefool"

lovefool is a good song

True

lovefool is a great song! just noticing the similarity was distracting me until i listened a few uh dozen or so more times

I may be misremembering due to age/cultural osmosis but was "lovefool" released during a massive boom of fake disco

also the cardigans' whole thing was ironic/winking takes on genres, at least at that point -- see their past metal covers

tbh i only know two cardigans songs, that and my favourite game, but based on those two i could definitely see that being their thing!

I remember "Lovefool" as an omnipresent American radio hit in spring '97 at the same time that Jamiroquai, Daft Punk, and Puff were doing their thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9PT4CM8LQc

(it stopped being their thing fairly soon after "Lovefool," at least not as obviously)

interesting. don't know much about the cardigans.

i'm not sure what mitski is doing is, like, ironic pastiche of disco--not sure if you were implying that katherine, or just saying the cardigans did that. she seems pretty willing to draw on whatever sounds feel right for the song.

i mean, there is some humor in the frisson that comes from singing "i'm a coward" as the beat picks up steam. but idk.

yeah, the big and small verse is heartbreaking, kinda feels like at least a little tongue-in-cheek to juxtapose against that fun lil' guitar darting in

yeah, there is irony but it is very bitter

lonesome love is dope

I wrote this elsewhere but the real comparison point for me isn't "Lovefool" but "Gimme Gimme Gimme (A Man After Midnight)"

oh yeah, that's a good point

coincidentally one of the best songs ever

idk maybe i'm just caught up but i legitimately cannot think of an artist whose music i've enjoyed more this decade, am i what the internet calls a "stan" now?

only if you start personally attacking people who think otherwise

but the only person who i hear talk shit about mitski is... mitski

oh no

cardigans talk is on point in that i think a lot of mitski's musical refs are out of the mid to late 90s.

I really enjoy the yellow bedroom in the Nobody video.

I'd really like DJ Koze to remix Nobody along the lines of his remix of Lapsley's Operator.

ya need some edits of that track def

Wow. My favorite album of hers so far by a long shot. Elliott Smith comparison is otm, not only the arrangements but the vocal melodies. But not something I would've heard if you hadn't mentioned it or something I ever heard on her first two records.

the more time i spend with this album the more blown away i am

only a shitty curmudgeon or an idiot would hate this music

sorry i don't know why i put it like that. but yeah it's sensational

i agree. or someone is afraid of examining what loneliness has done to them over the years, because this is something mitski gets right into

while also doing (CRASS ANALOGY ALERT) for indie what wire did for punk

i do know why i put it like that btw - loads of the RYM reviews have been low-to-tepid, and the only track they want to talk about is Nobody, because people are shit listeners

i think over time it will become some kind of classic. it hits a certain mood that i haven't quite heard in anything else, but that feels very of our moment.

the one that is killing me today is "lonesome love."

maybe universal not of our moment. but it hits something nothing else does and there will be listeners in the future that will go back to it over and over

the mood is pure undistilled ¬_¬

yeah but all the while under the surface you're a geyer, hear it call, hear it call, hear it call to me

yeah that is part of ¬_¬ though - the desire to burst out, to be something, to be romantic

bang it up inside ¬_¬

I am still blown away by the brilliance of “Me and My Husband”

her deployment of Britpop horns (and that jaunty organ!) on that song and elsewhere on the album is amazing

Any article I read about Mitski totally turns me off from her music. Especially the exclaim one. She’s probably good tho - just a reminder that interviews with artists can be bad

I don't... really get why?

I don't get it either.

yea me neither, the one about Hitchcock heroines?

There’s no way I can respond to this without pissing someone off. I’ll get round to the music eventually

I'm not pissed off just confused, I read the Exclaim interview and it seemed fine

Is it the comment about her supposedly not being allowed to noodle because she's not a straight white guy? That wasn't in the Exclaim interview, though.

Xpost no - not saying anyone here will be pissed off, it just doesn’t benefit to diss well liked artists on ilm, hopefully that’s fair

not really no. it's actually worse and more frustrating to say that an interview annoyed you without saying why. also it makes us wonder about your motivations

I just found it highly serious and high concept, the film stuff etc

Not the first one I’ve read either. Anyways I’m not going to argue this further but Christ.

Sure the music is perfectly fine

Not everyone respects artists philosophies the same way. I’m sure some of you don’t like artists I like

¬_¬

Talking about film: a new milestone in highbrow contempt.

fair enuff
she makes good tunes tho ross i think you'll like it

start with 'townie' i reckon

Townie is good thanks Nxd

I never really read her interviews but I’m enthusiastic about the music. Maybe this is a new phase in listening for me—I used to always want to know who I was listening to.

mitski is an extremely intelligent person who is great in interviews and on social media :)

also this record is one of my favourites of 2018!

for what it's worth this record is nothing like the film she mentioned, I'm sure it was an influence in some 25-dimensional chess way but it also has a very dark ending (at least the book does) that has no corresponding part in the record

where is this film interview? i'd been thinking about how vivid the imagery on this album is (coupled with the music videos too) and been wondering how much she thought about that kind of big picture focus for everything related to the record

nvm, found it. im unfamiliar with the film she's talking about but interested in listening to the album with a different perspective

mitskkkkkiiiiiii

I've heard a bit of the new one and like it. Where's the best place to start in her prior work?

makeout creek

i am in between considering her teenage, music for brats (especially after the time i saw her throw a tantrum for the entire duration of a show) yet the emotional magnitude and lyrical delivery redeems her work for me.

good to know

imagine writing any of that shit about a man

(especially after the time i saw her throw a tantrum for the entire duration of a show)

Do tell!

Brad otm

if Mitski is music for brats, i'm a 100% certified brat.

So you're saying an artist has a difficult personality, yet her work manages to be redeemed by its own quality?

Not to divert from the thread too much, I totally understand throwing a tantrum at one point on a tour. Shit must be so very exhausting, physically and emotionally, probably even more so if you are a young artist.

I've seen countless people throw tantrums for much less and usually they end up with all the appropriate forgiveness.

sorry, my humble opinion has nothing to do with gender or personality, just her music. lyrically its undeniable teenage, whiny and lacking depth "im not gonna be what my daddy wants me to be"; "mom, am i still young"; "i am a forest fire"; "kisses like pink cotton candy"; "holding hands under the table"; 'i just want someone to kiss, i'm lonely...', etc, yet her delivery is sincere and the production is flattering, on record, at least.

truly appalling take, really quite an accomplishment

the language associated with cliched teen experiences -- "makeout creek" etc -- shouldn't be taken at face value

sorry, my humble opinion has nothing to do with gender or personality, just her music. lyrically its undeniable teenage, whiny and lacking depth "im not gonna be what my daddy wants me to be"; "mom, am i still young"; "i am a forest fire"; "kisses like pink cotton candy"; "holding hands under the table"; 'i just want someone to kiss, i'm lonely...', etc, yet her delivery is sincere and the production is flattering, on record, at least.

I don't get how teens would choose these images.

loneliness isn't a serious issue for most people after age 18

what

joke

i don't really understand why i'm slated for saying that i really want to like her music, have enjoyed it for a few spins, bought a ticket to see her, but i find the lack of depth and doesnt keep me returning to listen. sorry if i come across like a funny fucker.

well yes one of her most celebrated records is called Puberty

Puberty 2, my bad.

Usually she spins those clichés of teenage romances on their head, the tension situated in her wanting to be part of this 'all american girl world' and not being able to be part of the club or does she even want too. It is a good way to express every day anxieties and sadness of social life and career choices. Those teenage years realities have a way to stay relevant to our personality for a long time. I don't think it's whiny or lacking depth, it resonates with a lot of people. In Be the Cowboy it's all a little more adult than on Puberty 2 but it works the same way, at least to me.

I feel like she mines a lot of the same lyrical territory as Elliott Smith or Cat Power, and I don't think anyone has ever accused either of them in lacking in depth. So many Nirvana songs about high school... you could go on and on...

i was gonna mention kurt cobain as a good example of a writer who carried teenage angst with depth and lyricism. as for elliott, mitski's songwriting is a thousand miles from his lyrical (and musical) virtuosity. she couldn't even tune her guitar when i saw her play... but yeah, puberty LP has some alright songs.

Supposedly it paid off well

i was gonna mention kurt cobain as a good example of a writer who carried teenage angst with depth and lyricism

A lot of Cobain's lyrics are so vague/veiled that you can really take away whatever meaning you want to from them. I like Mitski's more direct approach better. It's completely relatable, yet stops short of Taylor Swift's lyrical livejournaling.

I relate to Cobain's lyrics far more than to Mitski's, for the very reasons you mentioned.

I don't get "relating" to lyrics. They're someone else's stories, for the most part, even fictionalized. They evoke that act's particular reality well or they don't.

I relate to lyrics that don't expect me to relate to a given 'I', whether overtly fictive or 'real'. I relate to there being no one to relate to (it's not nothing, though).

I don't get "relating" to lyrics. They're someone else's stories, for the most part, even fictionalized. They evoke that act's particular reality well or they don't.

Isn't it possible to relate to someone else's stories?

this revive is even worse than the one where i wrote matt dc a longread

i don't particularly relate to any of mitski's songs but i think she's a good songwriter and storyteller. "i bet on losing dogs" is devastating without it ever having to resemble my own life

Oh, yeah, when I do relate to lyrics, it's usually in the sense of "empathizing", not in the sense of "this song is about me".

any good resonant art imo we should see a wider picture than just ourselves in, and anytime as a critic my first reaction is "i relate to this" i work v hard to get outside of it bc it seems a v solipsistic relationship to have with art and that it doesn't necessarily inform anybody else of why that art is good

quite

Isn't it possible to relate to someone else's stories?

― The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r)

I think that's what I said?

My reaction to "relate" reminds me of the anecdote Orson Welles told about filming The VIPs: when the director told him to "relate to those windows," Welles responds, "Anthony, you mean you want me to look at them?"

Anyway, as a gay man I live in a listening world where 98 percent of songs aren't for or about me, therefore treating songs as narratives as foreign as a Thomas Hardy Wessex novel became my default position. When I hear an overtly gay song by, say, Troye Sivan or Pet Shop Boys, my guard goes up for reasons Brad mentioned.

I'm willing to believe that most songs are about heterosexual love, but 98%?

Better to be paranoid than sorry.

I wonder if there is some element of irony in her whole lyrical thang. Towards the end of “Be The Cowboy”, there are about four songs in a row where the phrase “kiss me” pops up in the first line or two. In any event, it’s an excellent album, and “Come into the Water” in particular has as sublime a melody as has been composed in recent years.

Tbf the 'I relate to this song' trope is less annoying than 'I totally relate to this character'.

i think i agree with that

Listening to Mitski for the first time (be the cowboy) ... anyone else get a bit of Margo Guryan vibe? in the vocal melody and chord choices?

saw her live last night and holy moly the difference between a) the show and b) the crowd since her last show here a couple of years ago was... wild. very theatrical and a jam-packed theatre full of screaming fans who knew every lyric.

very late to this discussion / please don't yell at me for holding this opinion

but "relating to" a song is a fundamental method of developing emotional connections to music used by millions of people, probably a certain higher-than-par percentage of whom are women or girls. My sister related the hell to Taylor Swift when she was 15, and I mention Taylor because with Mitski as well, it seems to be fairly key to how many of her fans relate to her music. I don't understand dismissing it; to me it just seems like a somewhat abstracted, obfuscated version of "lyrics don't matter," which I also disagree with.

(I don't particularly relate to most of Mitski's songs, for what it's worth, which is possibly why I think it's a good album but don't have any special emotional connection to it, and thus don't listen to it that often, since I'd rather listen to the ones I do.)

"Relating" to music sounds effectively the same as feeling communion with any piece of art, whether it's a song or a book or a movie. When I hear/see/read my inner behavior reflected, acknowledged, and externalized by an artist, there's a relationship there.

I don't think I'm the same, but my "inner behavior" is pretty dull and not something I'd probably want to engage with in externalized artistic form (lol).

I also don't know that it's possible to talk about "Your Best American Girl," in particular, without talking about it as a song that a lot of listeners do relate to. I'm probably not the best person to expand on that, since for a lot of people the song draws upon specifically Asian American experience. but it seems an odd thing to dismiss

I thought this was a good piece (not about "Your Best American Girl" specifically), the last few paragraphs in particular https://www.npr.org/2018/09/06/642252679/mitski-is-the-21st-centurys-poet-laureate-of-young-adulthood

Yeah, some folks on here seem to interpret "relating to" as meaning having the exact same experience. To me, it's just connecting with the emotions of a song.

also possible to relate to a song while realizing that it is objectively bad, which is where some of people's "guilty pleasures" probably come from

That NPR article's pretty harsh on Lena Dunham, lol

xxp yes

xp "guilty pleasure" is a wack concept, there is no "objectively bad" art

I just meant people's conception of a "guilty pleasure" which is a concept that I think we can all agree exists in the world for some people

as far as "objectively bad" art I was referring to relating to a song while also as a critic finding it to be a bad song, which I thought was what I was supposed to do

sure, it'd still be subjectively bad

I really did miss the nitpicking of semantics

it's an essential ingredient in this glorious stew

That NPR article's pretty harsh on Lena Dunham, lol

― a neon light ablaze in this green smoky haze (morrisp), Tuesday, 23 October 2018 21:16 (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i haven't read it but it isn't harsh enough

Iggy Pop has called Mitski "the most advanced American songwriter,"

why on earth ppl are dealing with guy above as if he’s arguing in good faith after the kurt cobain drop is beyond me

lena dunham's alright

Lena Dunham is awful

i mean she’s pretty talented but she’s awful

I was just talking about the "relating to" thing since it just seems like such a core way to have an emotional response to music, which is part of what is music is for, and also seems to be the source of Mitski's appeal for a lot of the people who love her

she takes a lot of risks and they don't all pay off. in her show, in her public statements, etc.

i find her almost tragic bc she wants to be woke so bad but she will always be problematic.

lena not mitski. wrong thread

i feel that mitski repels identification as much as she invites it. there is an edge to some of these songs that suggests a frightening darkness you, the listener, don't really want to get sucked into. imago used the word "dysphoria" to describe the mood of some of these songs and i think that's right.

sometimes it's just subtle shifts in the lyrics that throw you slightly off. like in fireworks, on first brush, is a song about someone who goes numb due to depression but then--apparently--has a cathartic moment brought on by fireworks. but if look closer it's not really that at all. she says "i'll listen to the memories as they cry, cry, cry." she's not crying--it's like the alienation is complete, right here at the moment when it was supposed to fall away . i feel there are other twists like this throughout her oeuvre.

Maybe that is what people identify with. I recognized the feeling that caused her to write it that way—her being outside her own memories.

i relate extremely closely to her timbral and melodic choices

I think that's what I said?

Fwiw, I still think "I don't get 'relating' to lyrics. They're someone else's stories" is different from "it is possible to relate to someone else's stories" but those explanations were great, thanks to you and Brad.

the thread just seemed to have settled on a consensus of "relating to songs is fake/is annoying/is bad criticism/see even Welles said so," which wipes out a good 75% of my method of and pleasure/catharsis in listening to music

(like anything else "relatability" is a tool and songwriters can wield it in different ways. the example that comes to mind is St. Vincent singing through gritted teeth "I am a lot like you, I am alone like you" in a song directed at audiences -- she also calls herself "(their) casualty." the mitski record doesn't weaponize this so much, but its directness in lyrics definitely seems written with that in mind. of course, to relate to, say, "I'm not wearing my usual lipstick" you need to be the sort of person who has a usual lipstick)

I appreciated your posts.

Art enables us to experience the world in new ways, and one way lyrical art does so is by describing, in a glimpse, the experience of being another person. I can see many reasons why people would want to avoid that experience, but for me it's a fundamental reason to keep listening to lyrical music.

that is not the consensus this thread came to but fine

i think the point me and alfred were making is that not relating to mistki songs isn't an obstacle to enjoying her music. we were primarily reacting to a series of very bad posts. we weren't trying to be prescriptive about anyone else's approach to music

any good resonant art imo we should see a wider picture than just ourselves in, and anytime as a critic my first reaction is "i relate to this" i work v hard to get outside of it bc it seems a v solipsistic relationship to have with art and that it doesn't necessarily inform anybody else of why that art is good

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, October 10, 2018 5:33 AM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like, this is just my approach, it doesn't have to be anyone else's. i just try to keep myself open and available to experiences that are not my own and distrust whenever i like something bc it resembles my experience

also obv i like a ton of music bc i relate to it, and "relate" even seems like an inadequate word at this point; i love death metal bc it sounds like the inside of my head, which is probably a way of relating!

apologies, a consensus is just what it had seemed like

Theory: Mitski's father was a CIA operative (from wiki but it's from a guardian interview)

https://i.postimg.cc/zGtcYPWX/mitski.jpg

Mitski uses irony in a way that seems unique for a songwriter and very contemporary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYbXt4_r9Pw

oh this rules but as usual with her stuff i wish it were longer

Wild how the concept of "hits" has been warped by the streaming age -- largely by TikTok, particularly in the alt/indie world. "Your Best American Girl" not currently listed in Mitski's 10 most popular songs page on Spotify, but three songs from her 2013 self-released LP are. pic.twitter.com/SiwXyHCRfy

— Andrew Unterberger (@AUgetoffmygold) October 5, 2021

Thanks 4 heads up on this!

"Your Best American Girl" has higher streaming numbers than three songs in that list, though; the thing is that Spotify's Popular lists seem to work on a mix of different criteria.

oh this rules but as usual with her stuff i wish it were longer

Agreed that it rules, but I think her economy is one of her greatest strengths.

Not sure what criteria are for the Popular list. Maybe it weights more recent streams higher?

feel like it bears repeating that this is an exceptional comeback by any metric

wish it was longer? it's 5 minutes long!

haha

in fact, this is longer than any song on any of her last three albums.

it's 72 seconds longer than the *longest* song (by quite a bit) on Be The Cowboy!

this is looong for Mitski!

and now i will listen to it for the first time

AW HELL

i just looked at the video run time

still, it's like 4 minutes, which is long for her

anyway ... my bad everyone. please carry on.

If by "like 4 minutes", you mean "2:38", you are OTM. :P xp

it's not even 4 minutes

sheesh

someone delete all my posts, plz

haha xpost

ok, i will slink away in shame

i'm glad she's back. Be The Cowboy was great and "Your Best American Girl" is an all-timer.

to be clear, everyone, the lesson here is: watch the video and listen to the song before you post a bunch of dumb shit. ok now i'm really done.

the point is it is good

hey speaking of 2:38 did anyone manage to get tickets to any of the shows for the extremely small amount of time it was possible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmXFF_whkVk

this one's very good, most pop she's ever been

press release indicates this is going to be her synthpop album

my response to this song and that news is exactly what you think it is

that said, 'working for the knife' was brilliant as ever so I'm confused and willing to hear more

but seriously tho, if Weyes Blood joins Charli and Mitski in the let's-be-80s-like-everyone-else corner I might blow a gasket

'most pop she's ever been' is just...no, this is the most fashionably and straightforwardly pop she's ever been but she's given us nothing but amazing (if somewhat artful) pop for two if not three albums

my biggest problem with this song isn't the genre so much as the combination of genre and length though. usually her genomic style works beautifully but this doesn't have the space to expand as befits classical synthpop

co-written with dan wilson!

*gnomic ffs

'most straightforwardly pop' is what i mean by 'most pop' yes

reminds me of The War on Drugs

it's my loss but I found it pretty dull, and the video pushes it into near-parody for me

not like i’m expecting good writing in a press release but i still wish i hadn’t read the press release

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvIkcN5YMH4

this one is underwhelming

weak chorus yes. kinda wish it had all been that velvet underground goes post-rock first verse tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4J3Z9xgjWQ

the piano in the middle is fantastic but doesn't quite go far enough?

Oh good, more mediocre synthpop

Pitchfork will of course call this her 'most ambitious album yet'

imo the length of the pandemic has fucked with most of my favourite artists, it's kind of sad

i don't love the new material but i'm finding these tracks a little stronger than be the cowboy so far. the synths aren't some huge departure either. still very much the same songwriter with the same strengths & weaknesses.

be the cowboy is her masterpiece imo, kind of think of it like the original incarnation of wire did an emopop album in between chairs missing and 154

and the ingenious manipulations of melody just aren't there now; nor are the sonic surprises. i liked 'working for the knife' a lot but all three subsequent singles have felt empty

i don't think it's the length of the pandemic, really. maybe a little or in some cases. i just think (a) it's hard to keep making amazing albums over and over again, and (b) the prevalence of mediocre synthpop (mushcore, as that one guy calls it) and its incredible power over these people (why i do not know), and (c) you also are getting further and further away from the thrill of discovery, hearing new things, evolving in your interests, etc., and Mitski just isn't as interesting to you as she once was. obviously i don't know how you feel, i'm just tossing it out there as a potential factor here.

she was due to get boring, tbh.

i would be interested to hear why you think the length of the pandemic is causing some artists trouble, though.

well, full-band arrangements harder to rehearse and perform, for one, but there's more, hang on

extremely Wrong and Subjective post alert, sorry sorry sorry etc

okay so here are all the artists who have in the past year or two followed up, imo, greatness with non-greatness

- retreat into synthpop (mitski, charli): can't really explain this besides wanting to play the folk music of our pop age, needing the comfort of conformity idk

- albums that foreground negativity, doubt, struggle and end up sounding like a hodgepodge (l'rain, us girls): i get it i really do, but can we have some wide-eyed wonder back maybe idk

- albums that are just a mess and not a particularly compelling one (wilderun, tropical fuck storm): maybe you undercooked it? again, understandable, but

oneohtrix point never and little simz also fall into this category but i suspect their reasons are less pandemic-related and more to do with absolutely just wanting to be icons and seizing their opportunity by sacrificing a little edge for a little (or actually quite a lot of) cornball pandering.

i just pray weyes blood somehow doesn't follow one of these paths, but i am not hopeful

anyway sorry for this unhinged outpouring, i can only plead that to my ears all of these artists have blundered their art to some extent; you may and probably do disagree

adopting this DN for one post so whiney and sarahell can have their fun

to speculate wildly, one reason i think mitski decided to go in a more synthpoppy direction because "nobody" and "washing machine heart" have evolved into an actual honest-to-goodness not-just-internet capital-h hit, and she wants to see if she can reach festival headliner status, or to paraphrase imago, she "absolutely just wants to be an icon"

anyway, the piano does sound great on the new one, but the formula of "80s synth pattern + one weird chord in the verse" isn't really grabbing me

fair enough, good posts imago. appreciate it.

i have no idea whether to be worried about Weyes Blood or not. probably should.

anyone listen to the Tim Heidecker record she's on?

What was ufo's post linking to two days ago? The youtube link now says 'this live event is no longer available'.

ok nm it's "Love Me More", managed to copy the URL

retreat into synthpop (mitski, charli): can't really explain this besides wanting to play the folk music of our pop age, needing the comfort of conformity idk

We'll never agree on whether synthpop is a valid playground for inspiration (me) or retro slop (imago), but I think we *do* agree that neither of these artists are very successful in pivoting to it. I've got the Mitski album pre-ordered anyway, but I half expect to play it once, put it on the shelf, and then try it again sometime in 2028.

when done well i'm a fan! we do agree yes

this album has lots of cool ideas in the background but it doesn't lean into them anywhere enough and a lot of it does just end up in mediocre synthpop territory

Stay Soft is so good lol, even if this album is full of stinkers later at least it has its first 3 tracks

henceforth the first 3 and closing song on this are to be known as the Working For The Knife EP, a sterling continuation from the form of Be The Cowboy, nothing else happened here

see "stay soft" is one that doesn't work at all for me

I am a sucker for juicy chord changes tbf

henceforth the first 3 and closing song on this are to be known as the Working For The Knife EP, a sterling continuation from the form of Be The Cowboy, nothing else happened here

This but swapping track 3 for track 4. The opening track is astonishing! Cyberpunk gothic.

You are the only person on the internet who likes track 4 :p

yeah thought it was just me but the album is ... nice, but doesn't sufficiently differentiate itself from her last one, nothing really sticks out. might be a grower though. I certainly don't dislike it.

Okay, I was wrong. Stay Soft is incredible.

I really like the album. It's not quite as glorious as Be The Cowboy, but I do think the songs are there despite the sheen of the music. Everyone is a slight mood killer although I do really like that ABBA style piano that comes in. Be The Cowboy had A Horse Named Called Air which I thought was way worse.

Does anyone know what the title of this album means / refers to?

“Laurel Hell is a term from the Southern Appalachians in the US, where laurel bushes basically grow in these dense thickets. When you get stuck in these thickets, you can’t get out. Or so the story goes.”

“And so there are a lot of Laurel Hells in America, in the South, where they’re named after the people who died within them because they were stuck. The thing is, laurel flowers are so pretty. They just burst into these explosions of just beauty. And, I just, I liked the notion of being stuck inside this explosion of flowers and perhaps even dying within one of them.”

https://www.thefocus.news/music/laurel-hell-meaning/

Thx!

Saw a huge ad for her album which is just a close up of her face and for a second I thought it was bjork

keep thinking it's one of those portmanteau super-ilxor names

Liking the album though it's very dour. The last song stood out to me the most.

Her streaming numbers are crazy. 202 million plays on Spotify for Washing Machine Heart? Is this a TikTok thing?

"washing machine heart" was a tiktok hit yeah

her other big songs are still in the hundreds of million, though.

it makes sense that she has a massive cult following. she is a genius. like sylvia plath, she is confessional but not sentimental.

"Should've Been Me," more like should've been acknowledged as a perfect song

first Mitski album where I love every song

Laurel Hell that is