defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

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ugh, the worst, right? anyway, i just really wanted to share this lustrous takedown of him from some guy's blog i don't know:
http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.il/2013/05/drooling-self-love-dime-store-third.html

One will search Greenwald’s writing for coherence in vain because, although he espouses moral relativism when it suits his agenda, as we’ve just seen, he’ll vehemently disown it with his very next breath. His is not a thoughtful, principled commitment to a philosophy he’s prepared to defend or apply consistently. Rather, his geopolitical outlook might be best described as a half-understood kind of dime-store Third Worldism; a gruesome combination of a thoroughgoing Western masochism with an ostensible compassion for the wretched of the earth that masks the same racist condescension and contempt typified by the worst kind of colonialist paternalism.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:32 (eight years ago) link

hes cooler than you

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:35 (eight years ago) link

isms in my opinion aren't good

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:36 (eight years ago) link

it was funny when the exile would troll him by only referring to him as "glenn greenwald of the libertarian cato institute"

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (eight years ago) link

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OoUEP8atZl4/UY8Z5RFJ5mI/AAAAAAAAALg/ftL1Q9ZSCTc/s1600/greenwald.jpg

he looks like an older mark zuckerberg here

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:38 (eight years ago) link

Principled, consistent, systematic political philosophers do not become pundits. Greenwald's inconsistencies merely validate his membership in that group. Apart from that shocking accusation, all the rest of the takedown quoted above is pure vilification. iow, it is a less witty version of what Greenwald does for a living. pot calling out the kettle.

Aimless, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:39 (eight years ago) link

no no I meant it as a compliment

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (eight years ago) link

By calling him the "worst", you are being as simplistic as he sometimes is.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:40 (eight years ago) link

I think he is a bad writer but I agree with most of the points he makes.

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:41 (eight years ago) link

good thing i'm only making threads on ilx and not opining for a major newspaper xp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (eight years ago) link

Mordy does simplistic a lot, with relish

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:42 (eight years ago) link

mordy doesnt like glenn-chan because he refuses to kiss israel's feet and lips and buttlips. let's just be real about it

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:43 (eight years ago) link

well that's why he's the worst!

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (eight years ago) link

Mordy, I've only read the Thatcher article, show me what he wrote that you didn't like?

cardamon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:44 (eight years ago) link

Like any pundit he's useful when you need him to prove your point. Explaining how presidential administration quietly or openly chip away at civil liberties is his strength; he lacks the subtlety to explain what makes civil liberties worth preserving and the style that would make him consistently readable. Like all brands, he's taken for granted.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:45 (eight years ago) link

^ i agree with this

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:48 (eight years ago) link

"thoroughgoing Western masochism" = we hadda kill those people, dammit.

Works well for Israel, too.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:50 (eight years ago) link

like most men, he looks vile in cargo shorts

http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/GlennGreenwald1.jpg

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:51 (eight years ago) link

goddamn his husband

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:52 (eight years ago) link

He looks better in cargo shorts than glenn does

Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 17:54 (eight years ago) link

goddamn to hell colored flip flops.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:13 (eight years ago) link

lol this thread

greenwald is occasionally (ok, more than occasionally) long-winded but he is easily the best political blogger of the last decade.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:18 (eight years ago) link

treeship mostly otm

also i think we've gone over this ground p thoroughly in the last 5 years

also that blog you linked to really sucks!

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:25 (eight years ago) link

harry's place, LGF, euston manifesto in the blogroll... labor hawks, man, 2004 in effect

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:27 (eight years ago) link

mordy didn't you love greenwald until a few years ago

mordy's not an obama stan but i did sort of notice that he lost a lot of fans around 2009 or so, weird

who lost fans, GG, obama or mordy?

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:30 (eight years ago) link

i did love greenwald until a few years ago - i remember when i forced myself to unsub from his rss feed. this was when he was still at salon.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:31 (eight years ago) link

Hmm. It seems to me that the only reason Greenwald is perplexed by accusations of relativism is that he doesn't understand what the term means. [goes on to define moral relativism]

yes thanks much fucker

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:33 (eight years ago) link

anyway he's at his best when he just writes about the law and doesn't try to pundit so much, and once you read like 100 of his columns you pretty much know what he's going to think about everything and he becomes less necessary to read on a daily basis. he's definitely a necessary force for good in the world of political writing. even if i don't need to read him anymore, i wouldn't want a blogosphere without him

have to say some of the clones he's produced are pretty dire, like him otm more often than not but with even less style and just clearly not as smart or well-researched. forget these dudes names atm but it's not important, they're like slate writers or something. also goes without saying his commenters are generally the scum of the earth but i haven't read any of his comments in years either

i used to find his writing very interesting - he'd present new material (especially legal material) that i wasn't familiar with, he'd analyze it very insightfully, etc. now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is. also i think he's doubled down significantly on the wrong side of liberalism. like when he asked recently why Israeli can bomb Syria without condemnation when obv if Syria bombed Israel ppl would be hysterical. obv equivalencies like that are immediately intellectually suspect (um, Assad has been lobbing shit into Israel for months w/out much attention), but also it's just this really facile kind of geopolitical analysis. at some point he traded in what he was good at - legal analysis - for ideological tirades. i think it really destroyed any value he held.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (eight years ago) link

lol at that 'lustrous takedown,' which includes gems like this:

Those of us who recognise the universal importance and desirability of the above, have little difficulty in ascribing inferiority to a culture that is - conversely - obscurantist, theocratic, misogynistic, racist and oppressive, such as that of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

dismissing a 'culture' (rather than a government) as 'inferior' sounds pretty racist to me.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:35 (eight years ago) link

cultures aren't synonymous w/ races

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (eight years ago) link

maybe it's culturist tho!

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (eight years ago) link

yeah i mean it's kind of a dickish thing to say no matter how you slice it.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (eight years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:37 (eight years ago) link

i am a big fan of both gg and mordy, i am sad they can't be friends

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (eight years ago) link

they can walk in flip flops and shorts together

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:38 (eight years ago) link

now he just rants and writes arguments about how ideologically impure everyone but he is

eh he inserts enough qualifiers and equivocations to suggest otherwise, but he IS fond of adverbs

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:39 (eight years ago) link

feet and lips and buttlips

I love you

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:40 (eight years ago) link

i do think GG used to be better than he is now -- he rarely surprises me anymore. i usually skip the pieces where he just complains about cable news. this was one of his better pieces from the last couple years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/02/obama-civil-liberties-history

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (eight years ago) link

let's summarize Mordy's points:

tuchus

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:41 (eight years ago) link

i did make fun of mordy's cargo shorts once which i regret

i think JD's point that he's the best political blogger of the past decade (ever?) is pretty tough to argue with; even if you dislike his more recent punditry (something i can sympathize with), his strengths make him on balance pretty invaluable. you can even just choose to remember the good times

Greenwald can only withhold judgement of Iran's dismal human rights record or Syria's campaign of sectarian slaughter by affirming that Persians and Arabs are simply not culturally suited to the liberties and protections derived from Enlightenment thought to which Westerners rightly feel they are entitled. Instead, they must be perceived as childlike, simple and sometimes savage peoples whose cultural proclivities demonstrate a preference for subjugation, violence, injustice and fear over liberty and peace, and who are incapable of understanding egalitarian concepts of human rights due to their uniquely 'Western' character.

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (eight years ago) link

maybe the best domestic blogger critic of america but he's so outclassed by like every other geopolitical blogger

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:43 (eight years ago) link

the blue and the dim of feet and lips and buttlips
i would spread my lips on those buttlips

i think that's pretty otm. i've felt for a long time like there's a racism of low expectations at play in post-colonialism + cultural relativism xxp

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:44 (eight years ago) link

like stephen walt is hardly a friend of israel but he's so much more worth reading than greenwald. he actually writes new material and has insights that seem valuable. and he doesn't rant.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (eight years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:37 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark

agreed, for example the racist settler state known as Israel

turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:45 (eight years ago) link

Greenwald has also criticised the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba on the grounds that they deny those held there the protection of the rule of law and due process. But if these are markers by which it is possible to judge the American administration's commitment to human rights, why are they not also suitable markers by which to judge that of the Iranian or Syrian regimes, whose behaviour by these standards is demonstrably much worse? And if these markers are deemed legitimate points of universalist comparison by Greenwald, then why not others such as the emancipation of women, and the protection of LGBTQ rights? And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

oh, the bush years. remember this shit? lol

― goole, Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:40 PM (3 minutes ago)

ha wait, who's the relativist now?

gg has said on numerous occasions that he focuses on the US because he's a US citizen. seems pretty simple

why is that simple? he doesn't live here, he writes for a UK paper, etc. why should the coincidence of his birthplace be the most important driver in his work?

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:47 (eight years ago) link

to repeat: i haven't ever been able to make my way thru an entire GG column even in his best days and don't even attempt it now, he's a shitty writer and stunningly ignorant and unimaginative about how politics works (esp anything domestic or money-related), but he's undeniably right about his core concerns (the law), and also this 'lustrous takedown' is str8 cheap garbage

xp because he's a constitutional lawyer

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:47 (eight years ago) link

stunningly ignorant and unimaginative uninterested about how politics works (esp anything domestic or money-related)

fixed

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:48 (eight years ago) link

as a middle-aged Jew currently wearing cargo shorts I am following this thread closely so I know what political views to espouse

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:48 (eight years ago) link

he doesn't live here because of DOMA. he's said that a thousand times and anyone who criticizes him for writing about US policy as an expat is a scumbag straight up

And why the reluctance to judge, and where necessary indict, cultures accordingly?

if i can answer this one for myself, because 'indictment' means war? fuck that, man. no war.

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:49 (eight years ago) link

i'm not saying he shouldn't write about US policy bc he's an expat. I'm saying that the coincidence of his birthplace is not a slamdunk explanation for only writing about the US.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:49 (eight years ago) link

the 'takedown' reads like the guy never heard of greenwald before and was given half an hour to churn something out. gg has assigned himself a remit and he is pretty clear about what he is/isn't going to write about. which is really up to him and doesn't need a justification?

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:50 (eight years ago) link

political pundits who are uninterested about how politics works are strange people

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:50 (eight years ago) link

I know, he read that thing Chomsky wrote once and it really stuck with him but it's not the end of the conversation. Plenty of people born in particular countries write about other countries. Especially when they leave that country for whatever reason.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:50 (eight years ago) link

I mean greenwald is not alone in that category but it does describe him pretty well

iatee, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:51 (eight years ago) link

i don't think i'd want to see the greenwaldian style applied to brazil even for lols

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:52 (eight years ago) link

Maybe Greenwald writes about the US for the Guardian because that's what they hired him to do?

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:54 (eight years ago) link

political pundits who are uninterested about how politics works are strange people

― iatee, Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:50 PM (26 seconds ago)

this is definitely a frustrating thing about GG but i think ppl would be better served not reading his columns as prescriptive (even if that's his intent!) and instead using them to be like "ok everything he's saying is otm, this is at least something to keep in mind"

like he can be ridiculous but he's necessary when he's at his best no one is/was writing about the things he was writing about, at least no one with a fraction of his audience

period after necessary

this aggrieved (or often enough, chuckling) attitude that a homosexual has to be a neocon because traditional or autocratic societies are sexually restrictive is so fucking gross

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:57 (eight years ago) link

wait what?

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:59 (eight years ago) link

that GG takedown has been written a hundred times before, only it went 'noam chomsky can't see anything good about america, but he NEVER writes about how bad the soviet union is.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 18:59 (eight years ago) link

that's 'jacobinism' dude's argument!

xp

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:00 (eight years ago) link

chomsky is a guy who i loved in high school. i used to listen to his (political) lectures all the time but i think in some ways he's even worse than greenwald. his theories about how power works are totally divorced from what i'd consider sharp analysis of the world, or politics, and though his style appealed to me when i was younger it became clear that he's just a really intelligent conspiracy theorist.

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:01 (eight years ago) link

this is definitely a frustrating thing about GG but i think ppl would be better served not reading his columns as prescriptive (even if that's his intent!) and instead using them to be like "ok everything he's saying is otm, this is at least something to keep in mind"

Scolds are often right.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:01 (eight years ago) link

J.D. otm

I am essentially uninterested in how politics in 21st-century America works bcz Obama.

Chomsky even said after the election that Bam was the lesser evil, what more do you want?

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:02 (eight years ago) link

http://972mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/rsz_gp3.jpg

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:03 (eight years ago) link

i have some issues with chomsky but i don't think it's accurate to call him a conspiracy theorist -- if anything the problem is that he's the opposite, someone who denies that human agency can make a difference in history at all. like, in his reading, the cold war somehow has almost nothing to do with harry truman and dean acheson, but 'about' america's corporate interests, which somehow (never specified) pulled all the strings behind the scenes and controlled american foreign policy. one thing i do like about GG is that he (mostly) doesn't do this.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:09 (eight years ago) link

"but 'about' america's corporate interests, which somehow (never specified) pulled all the strings behind the scenes and controlled american foreign policy"

how is this not a conspiracy theory? vague, non specified accusation of someone pulling all the strings behind the scenes!

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:16 (eight years ago) link

"someone"

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:23 (eight years ago) link

citizens united yo - it's the LAW

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:23 (eight years ago) link

well conspiracy theorists tend to be fixated on the actions of actual individuals -- FDR and pearl harbor, the 'real' JFK assassins, et al. i guess you could call chomsky an institutional conspiracy theorist in that he blames everything on institutions -- the press is bad because it's owned by corporations, wars happen because wall street wants them, etc etc.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:24 (eight years ago) link

i think they're different versions. plenty of conspiracy theories about organizations/governments secretly doing x, y, z

Mordy , Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:25 (eight years ago) link

chomsky's theories don't require anyone to know what they're doing, though

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:27 (eight years ago) link

Here's a Greenwald phrase from a column of his that annoys me:

As French war planes bomb Mali, there is one simple statistic that provides the key context: this west African nation of 15 million people is the eighth country in which western powers - over the last four years alone - have bombed and killed Muslims

Greenwald failed to acknowledge that in north Mali, fundamentalist Muslim extremists were taking over and killing and oppressing moderate Malian Muslims. His "key context" is based on his simplistic Western colonialists return to kill noble Muslims thesis, when the facts are more complicated. A better columnist might have addressed each country individually and as for Mali, not simply lumped together all types of Muslims, while better making his point re Western imperialism.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:27 (eight years ago) link

citizens united yo - it's the LAW

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 3:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the citizens united issue is actually a pretty good example of him breaking with party-line liberalism and convincing me to question my instincts. i see it as a much more complex issue after reading his writing on the case

i wasn't making a corporate personhood reference i meant i think the distinction between what jfk headz believe and what chomsky believes is a distinction between conscious conspiracy and the automatic self-perpetuating behavior of systems

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:29 (eight years ago) link

i grew up on chomsky but nowadays i tend to think that (like a lot of leftists) his reflexive anti-americanism gets in the way. i know i sound like a conservative, but his worldview (or view of history) seems constructed around the unshakable notion of the United States as a Bad Actor (and not just a bad actor, but _the_ Bad Actor around which all other Bad Actors appear to swirl and take succor) and everything else just kind of falls in line with that. which is not to say that the United States has not been a Bad Actor many, many times and that Chomsky has not rightfully (and righteously) helped to expose some of those occasions. but I think Chomsky is basically a bad historian and does not respect due diligence in research, it's just too easy to drop each new event into this master template that he doesn't care to revise.

greenwald is not that programmatic, although he's becoming more by the day. but unlike chomsky I still find him readable.... usually. whenever he talks about popular culture you have to roll your eyes.

still, a lot of the greenwald quotes up above are pretty damning. at least in terms of painting him as a guy who can't see beyond a manichean logic (which is often chomsky's problem). but yeah he's capable (thus far) of more complex reasoning.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:30 (eight years ago) link

there is a kind of unnavigable interzone between analysis of how power works and 'conspiracy'. i don't know the names & schedules of the people working here http://www.api.org/ but i'm sure they're up to some shit. i suppose the difference is i woulnd't come out and say they're up to some shit w/o some proof of what it was

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:31 (eight years ago) link

xpost

(there's a reason why historians don't like chomsky or zinn btw, and it's not because they're a conservative bunch.)

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:31 (eight years ago) link

DLH otm, my problem is that chomsky takes his 'institutional' critique so far that he doesn't leave any room for individuals, their flaws and ambitions and motives. like, i don't believe that truman invaded korea or JFK invaded vietnam because of 'the automatic self-perpetuating behavior of systems.' (i've also never heard him talk about political parties, which is a huge hole in any attempt to analyze the politics of the u.s.)

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:34 (eight years ago) link

my own worldview is v much anti-conspiratorial, since my belief is that power is exorcized out in the open, it's just too boring and complicated for anybody to pay attention to in a sustained way (cf. 19/20 supreme court cases, 999/1000 things congress does on a given day)

goole, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:35 (eight years ago) link

yeah i think you are right, plus even when the a.s-p.b.o.s. does matter, as in say lbj's decisions to escalate, it's still incomplete to ignore who lbj is and what he wants and why xp

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:36 (eight years ago) link

i mean they both matter pretty much literally all the time

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:36 (eight years ago) link

rather weird to study history and not care about personalities. Even Hobsbawm does.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:40 (eight years ago) link

i pretty much hate zinn, mainly because his chapter on the civil war has to be one of the worst things ever written on the subject. i blame it for every argument i had on the subject in college. (also at least partly to blame for some of the stupid kneejerk left-wing reactions to spielberg's 'lincoln').

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:41 (eight years ago) link

yeah, it's kind of a piece of junk. there are a few high-profile takedowns of "people's history" by historians.

i had a kind of revelation about this around age 16, right around when folks around me were like "have you read this amazing book?" i realized that zinn was insulting my intelligence in not trusting me with a version of history tainted by complexity.

also zinn gave a "talk" at my school that was just a bunch of leftist/"movement" clichés strung together (I mean literally, he had no script and no "theme," he just got up there and riffed on "change begins with you" over and over). it was so lazy (and therefore so contemptuous of his audience and the honorarium they had presented to him) that it kind of shook me out of whatever remaining adulation I had for zinn.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 19:45 (eight years ago) link

'people's history' does have a lot of great quotes and excerpts from other authors -- it'd be a great oral history, except that zinn's commentary invariably reduces it all to the level of a bad fairy tale. this is a pretty good takedown:

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/howard-zinns-history-lessons

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 May 2013 20:01 (eight years ago) link

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/337311650275278848

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 04:08 (eight years ago) link

i apologize in advance for the length of this post.

i am confused about what i feel about howard zinn. my favorite part of the dissent article is when it argues that zinn's book does a disservice to the losers of history by describing them as naive, well-intentioned bumblers that keep getting defeated by the elites, and in that sense doesn't even make good on its promise to be a history of what is usually overlooked/deliberately marginalized, esp. in terms of workers' movements. i think an openly biased popular history book that tries to create a strong narrative of left wing radicalism as a counterbalance of the strong narrative people know about the founding fathers, lincoln, etc. might be a legitimate project, but i'm not sure if zinn's book is that.

i used to be a big chomskyite and thought that institutions had lives of their own, basically, and perpetuated their interests somewhat independently of human agents, who are always relegated to niche roles and never really get a sense of the bigger picture, and might well be deluding themselves as to the real meaning of the roles that have been prescribed for them. i think this is true of corporations... i think they are like this, because they need to maximize short term profits and can't do anything, really, that would undermine this narrow goal. i think i might have been attracted to thinking "institutionally" bc i have an aversion to judging individuals morally and didn't want my politics to be based on calling individuals greedy, corrupt, whatever because i suspected that these things are diversions, and have little effect on what is really going on.

i think i am at a confusing juncture in my political thinking because i don't have a good answer for what the united states should do with the immense power it has, and the postcolonial legacy that comes with it, which involves a large part of the world being really fucked up for reasons relating to US interventionism, military, covert, or otherwise. i suspect there isn't a good answer for when "intervention" becomes necessary, or even for what the "actual reasons" for our past "interventions" have been, which is frightening. wtf was even the point of the war in iraq for instance? chomsky's shrugging answer that it was just about perpetuating the interests of the ruling class seems wrong, but then again, i don't think it was about anything the bush administration said it was about either. i think dick cheney himself has a different perspective today on why he was into the idea of war in iraq than he did in 2003.

one thing i agree with greenwald on though, unreservedly, is that the US needs to hold itself to a way higher standard than fucking assad or whomever, i don't think it's at ALL hypocritical for him to argue that if nations like the US and israel aren't hewing to strict human rights standards -- not torturing people, giving POWs fair trials, not bombing densely populated areas all the time because come on, how necessary really was it to kill anwar al-awlaki -- then NOBODY EVER WILL.

Treeship, Thursday, 23 May 2013 04:51 (eight years ago) link

nobody ever has, nobody ever will

balls, Thursday, 23 May 2013 05:49 (eight years ago) link

dude really does love dogs i'll give him that

balls, Thursday, 23 May 2013 05:50 (eight years ago) link

i guess i mostly agree with kevin itt... i haven't read greenwald regularly in years and find him a bit ridiculous and borderline self-parodic at this point but he says things that a lof people won't/don't and he's often right so eh

J0rdan S., Thursday, 23 May 2013 06:34 (eight years ago) link

i think the war in iraq is a good example of leftist blind spots re How Things Happen because i don't think it was a cynical project. oil and contracts and father issues matter but more than anything else (and especially given the i guess the word is carelessness w which the invasion was handled) i think the war was real earnest hubris. the imperial disease. athens in sicily, britain vs the boers. it's about getting the upper hand w the spartans and it's about the gold mines in the transvaal but it's also just about power and the terror that power not grown will shrink. alcibiades: "it is not possible for us to calculate, like housekeepers, exactly how much empire we want to have. the fact is we have reached a stage where we are forced to plan new conquests." in that sense i guess i do think it was an institutional reflex? but one that also depended on devout individuals being busy busy beavers. (behind alci's theorizing he's lusting for personal glory.) trotsky sometimes hints he understands how history is both inevitable and dependent but i never follow him when he explains.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 07:03 (eight years ago) link

the problem with a people's history is it conveys exactly the same sense of untroubled certainty you get from the textbooks it's supposedly correcting. zinn never doubts and he never muddies. it's just the textbooks backwards and it sucks for all the same reasons.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 07:13 (eight years ago) link

ignore that part about the boers i don't really know what i'm talking about.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 07:31 (eight years ago) link

lots of leftists saw the iraq war as earnest imperial hubris! that's something that stands out in my memory about the discussion and protests of the time, the exasperation at how *belated* and out of time so much of the appeal to invasion seemed.

don't disagree with your larger point obv

discreet, Thursday, 23 May 2013 08:08 (eight years ago) link

yeah you're right. lots had NO WAR FOR OIL bumper stickers too, though.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 08:08 (eight years ago) link

i feel like the iraq war was such a perfect storm of carefully nurtured (for decades!) imperial dream-lust and blowback historical circumstance, that no opposition argument is really *too* reductive, no matter much it may seem. they really were after oil! and regional hegemony! and looking for new piles of rubble to cheer on. it's all there no matter how distractedly you look.

discreet, Thursday, 23 May 2013 08:59 (eight years ago) link

this is a great thread. treeship and difficult listening hour are BRINGING IT.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 23 May 2013 09:40 (eight years ago) link

in 2003 my international relations professor said that if you weren't a fan of american hegemony there was something encouraging about the iraq war, because truly powerful hegemons don't need to send in troops. that america was reduced to going to war in order validate its hegemonic credentials was the first sign of its decline as hegemon.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 23 May 2013 09:44 (eight years ago) link

i'm wrong, there's totally a professor out there somewhere with an argument too reductive, i take it all back

discreet, Thursday, 23 May 2013 10:03 (eight years ago) link

do you think he was wrong? seems pretty on point to me

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 23 May 2013 11:04 (eight years ago) link

i don't believe that truman invaded korea or JFK invaded vietnam because of 'the automatic self-perpetuating behavior of systems.'

oh, rrrrreally

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 May 2013 11:31 (eight years ago) link

Truman didn't invade Korea.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 May 2013 12:08 (eight years ago) link

I suppose we could allude to Frederick Jackson Turner and frontier theory, with imperialism the means by which a nation MUST use its considerable resources to find new markets as well as use those fancy battleships and planes, etc. Henry Adams said at the turn of the century that power requires a way to test it, therefore it was inevitable that nations like Germany and Japan, growing at an astonishing rate, would eventually provoke war; they were powder kegs ready for explosions.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 May 2013 12:10 (eight years ago) link

nah, some cultures obv suck

― Mordy , Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:37 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark

agreed, for example the racist settler state known as Israel
--turds (Hungry4Ass)

Key troll

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 23 May 2013 12:32 (eight years ago) link

kinda one-note imo. if you're not furthering the parameters of the troll u're just running in place

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 12:39 (eight years ago) link

don't be defensive Mordy acknowledge the burn

i thought he meant his own trolling

goole, Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:03 (eight years ago) link

it burns

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:04 (eight years ago) link

he's got a point. good trolling doesn't stick to old boundaries, it needs to expand, it needs to, you know, establish an ongoing presence in contested areas

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:06 (eight years ago) link

Lolol

Treeship, Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:06 (eight years ago) link

otm. trolling creates new facts on the ground.

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:08 (eight years ago) link

the problem with Hungry4Ass was that he was not trolling enough

ḉrut (crüt), Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:12 (eight years ago) link

he's our own little suicide bomber

iatee, Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:14 (eight years ago) link

yeah, that's the thing. trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it. i thought hungry4ass was into the next level trolling.

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:15 (eight years ago) link

if there's one thing the history of ilx has taught us, it's that trolling will not be contained. trolling breaks free. it expands to new territories; it crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, ah... well, there it is.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:27 (eight years ago) link

trolling finds a way

ryan, Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:31 (eight years ago) link

also trolling israel is already glenn's shtick so it's kinda just reframing the question
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/337357514440077312

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 15:36 (eight years ago) link

when we troll, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll troll again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's trolls ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:07 (eight years ago) link

a+

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:08 (eight years ago) link

GG pwned Bill Maher a few weeks ago x1000 when he was off on one of his usual blaming everything on religious extremism tangents.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:11 (eight years ago) link

morbs: yes, rrrrreally

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:37 (eight years ago) link

C'mon HST just rejiggered Teddy Roosevelt's imperialism from Hiroshima on, and JFK ran with it.

trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it

Which side of your reversible Bibi Netanyahu/Cole Hamels pajamas are you wearing now?

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:48 (eight years ago) link

well yeah, but i don't see that as a system 'automatically perpetuating' itself so much as a series of presidents actively and aggressively seizing more and more power for themselves (enabled by congress, natch). trust me, no truman/JFK apologist here!

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:52 (eight years ago) link

i do have a soft spot for TR despite the obv problems.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:54 (eight years ago) link

TR is a complicated figure.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:56 (eight years ago) link

C'mon HST just rejiggered Teddy Roosevelt's imperialism

what on earth does this mean?

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:56 (eight years ago) link

Harry taught TR how to dance?

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:56 (eight years ago) link

i initially read it as 'hunter s. thompson just rejiggered teddy roosevelt's imperialism.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:57 (eight years ago) link

My main problem with GG is personal. Set the politics aside and he's a pompous ass who responds to all criticism with sneering and condescension. I could agree with everything he says and still think he's a dick.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:12 (eight years ago) link

that is the only way to respond to people who are wrong.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:13 (eight years ago) link

GG is a pretty nice guy in person.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:14 (eight years ago) link

That's interesting. I've heard the opposite.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:17 (eight years ago) link

C'mon HST just rejiggered Teddy Roosevelt's imperialism

what on earth does this mean?

it means that if you stand on san juan hill and look north you can almost see the high-water mark

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:17 (eight years ago) link

He seems like he'd be nice irl... Nerdy, earnest, literal-minded xp

Treeship, Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:23 (eight years ago) link

i saw him speak last year and chatted with him for about 10 minutes afterward and he was really nice, i assume he gets out all his aggression through vicious exchanges on twitter.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:26 (eight years ago) link

tbh i'd be a dick sometimes too if ppl kept calling me a libertarian.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:27 (eight years ago) link

I agree with DL though. I don't like the rhetorical style where u act like your opinions are SO OBVIOUS that it's a shock when someone doesnt automatically agree with you. Jezebel is like this, I think, and it's annoying to me even when i agree with them which is often.

Treeship, Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:27 (eight years ago) link

xp Anyone can be decent chatting to someone who agrees with them but I can't think of another major pundit, left or right, who is so pompous and graceless when responding to even mild dissent, except maybe Bill O'Reilly.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 23 May 2013 19:41 (eight years ago) link

yeah, that's the thing. trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it. i thought hungry4ass was into the next level trolling.

― Mordy , Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:15 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

tbh i didnt know you were 'into' israel until a few weeks ago. thought you were one of the good ones b4 that

turds (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:30 (eight years ago) link

oh well now you know the awful truth that i am a bad one

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:33 (eight years ago) link

thought you were one of the good ones

damn fine trolling there. he raised his game a notch.

Aimless, Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:35 (eight years ago) link

yeah, that's the thing. trolling me about israel is so easy that even morbz can do it.

― Mordy , Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:15 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

Morbz has a pretty low batting average but tremendous trolling power when he connects.

Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:38 (eight years ago) link

good slugging percentage tho

i'm very sincere when it comes to issues of jewishness and israel. it involves my family and friends and it is something i feel very emotional about. i try very hard on ilx to discuss it intelligently and engage ppl in legitimate debate on the topic. i suppose it's fair game to troll me on it but when i read morbz do it, or hungry4ass, or gukbe, or the numerous ppl on ilx who have trolled me on the issue, i feel momentarily sad and disappointed and i try not to get into a fight about it. on the other hand if it seems like someone has a legitimate point they want to discuss, it's one of my favorite things to talk about.

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:40 (eight years ago) link

so yeah, good trolling dudes. i got the feels or however the kids describe it these days.

Mordy , Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:41 (eight years ago) link

sorry.

turds (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:45 (eight years ago) link

mordy if this pathetic routine is just a ploy to make us feel sympathy for you and your racist settler state... well then it's working--come on in for a hug ya big ole lump!

flopson, Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:47 (eight years ago) link

lol

turds (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:49 (eight years ago) link

mordy -- my political perspective is obv a bit different from yours but i actually genuinely appreciate + have learned from your posts on this subject, and sincerely regret if i've ever trolled you abt it (i can't remember, but my penchant for posting lazily ill-thought-out quippy stuff on political threads while at work tells me i prob have).

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:53 (eight years ago) link

yeah i learn a lot from mordy posts and i have to think about stuff in ways i haven't before, so thanks

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 23 May 2013 23:50 (eight years ago) link

GG's passions do seem obviously on-target to me, as does how the Israeli government tends to act against its own long-term interests re the Palestinian question.

but complaining about self-righteousness re an 'indefensible' subject lol i guess

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Friday, 24 May 2013 00:51 (eight years ago) link

Drone attacks continue, the FBI killed an unarmed witness, and Obama aides cash in

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 June 2013 15:41 (eight years ago) link

Update

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Monday, 3 June 2013 15:46 (eight years ago) link

American expat wears cargo shorts with gay Brazilian lover, Beltway elite shrug

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 June 2013 15:47 (eight years ago) link

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The order directs Verizon to "continue production on an ongoing daily basis thereafter for the duration of this order". It specifies that the records to be produced include "session identifying information", such as "originating and terminating number", the duration of each call, telephone calling card numbers, trunk identifiers, International Mobile Subscriber Identity (IMSI) number, and "comprehensive communication routing information".

The information is classed as "metadata", or transactional information, rather than communications, and so does not require individual warrants to access. The document also specifies that such "metadata" is not limited to the aforementioned items. A 2005 court ruling judged that cell site location data – the nearest cell tower a phone was connected to – was also transactional data, and so could potentially fall under the scope of the order.

...

The court order appears to explain the numerous cryptic public warnings by two US senators, Ron Wyden and Mark Udall, about the scope of the Obama administration's surveillance activities.

For roughly two years, the two Democrats have been stridently advising the public that the US government is relying on "secret legal interpretations" to claim surveillance powers so broad that the American public would be "stunned" to learn of the kind of domestic spying being conducted.

Because those activities are classified, the senators, both members of the Senate intelligence committee, have been prevented from specifying which domestic surveillance programs they find so alarming. But the information they have been able to disclose in their public warnings perfectly tracks both the specific law cited by the April 25 court order as well as the vast scope of record-gathering it authorized.

Julian Sanchez, a surveillance expert with the Cato Institute, explained: "We've certainly seen the government increasingly strain the bounds of 'relevance' to collect large numbers of records at once — everyone at one or two degrees of separation from a target — but vacuuming all metadata up indiscriminately would be an extraordinary repudiation of any pretence of constraint or particularized suspicion." The April order requested by the FBI and NSA does precisely that.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 June 2013 02:14 (eight years ago) link

in which new guy ackerman & greenwald deliver

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 6 June 2013 02:17 (eight years ago) link

This guy does good work.

waterface, Thursday, 6 June 2013 02:38 (eight years ago) link

thx

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 June 2013 02:40 (eight years ago) link

lol

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 6 June 2013 03:54 (eight years ago) link

lmao i cant IMAGINE what the original draft of that greenwald piece looked like

max, Thursday, 6 June 2013 11:24 (eight years ago) link

Good work GG. I may not like him but credit where it's due.

Actually I like him more every time I see the walking-the-dogs picture. That doesn't look like a guy who would question my reading comprehension.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 6 June 2013 13:07 (eight years ago) link

i wore cargo shorts last weekend tbh

lipitor retriever (brownie), Thursday, 6 June 2013 13:10 (eight years ago) link

It's a good look

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 6 June 2013 13:11 (eight years ago) link

prefer skinny shorts, neutral-colored flip-flops, Labradors, and a Constitution.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 6 June 2013 13:12 (eight years ago) link

They were discussing this article plus a drone operator's interview with NBC on "Morning Joe" this morning, and Joe was predicting Holder would soon be going through Greenwald's phone records

curmudgeon, Thursday, 6 June 2013 13:27 (eight years ago) link

and by Greenwald's phone records you mean

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 6 June 2013 13:29 (eight years ago) link

I will leave the jokes to you.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 6 June 2013 13:33 (eight years ago) link

do we have to use the Crazed Zionist's thread to praise GG?

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 June 2013 14:03 (eight years ago) link

wow dude

ttyih boi (crüt), Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:13 (eight years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA

how's life, Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:14 (eight years ago) link

When is it time to let go of a friendship?

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:17 (eight years ago) link

yeah i said "wow dude" when he started a trollthread just cuz moral objections to the manifest destiny of Israel gets his shorts in a bunch

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:21 (eight years ago) link

I'm sorry you're sick dude but damn if you're not the biggest dick on ilx.

Mordy , Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:27 (eight years ago) link

yeah it's definitely your noble political impulses & not your bitter misanthropic rage driving your personal attacks on Mordy. you have such undying compassion for the palestinian people that you can't help but sprinkle your snark with some light anti-Semitism. get the fuck outta here.

ttyih boi (crüt), Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:28 (eight years ago) link

tsk tsk don't let bigots get away with that smokescreen

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:30 (eight years ago) link

yeah it's definitely your noble political impulses & not your bitter misanthropic rage driving your personal attacks on Mordy. you have such undying compassion for the palestinian people that you can't help but sprinkle your snark with some light anti-Semitism. get the fuck outta here.

― ttyih boi (crüt), Thursday, June 6, 2013 11:28 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

ttyih boi (crüt), Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:37 (eight years ago) link

yeah it's definitely your noble political impulses & not your bitter misanthropic rage driving your personal attacks on Mordy. you have such undying compassion for the palestinian people that you can't help but sprinkle your snark with some light anti-Semitism. get the fuck outta here.

― ttyih boi (crüt), Thursday, June 6, 2013 11:28 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

lol, antisemitism. they got to u too huh curt

i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:37 (eight years ago) link

btw i practice a warm, seductive misanthropy.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:43 (eight years ago) link

i practice a warm, seductive flag post

Mordy , Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:43 (eight years ago) link

roots of creation, airwair

how's life, Thursday, 6 June 2013 15:45 (eight years ago) link

Greenwald's piece on James Comey, the Bush official nominated to be the next FBI director was worth reading

curmudgeon, Thursday, 6 June 2013 17:10 (eight years ago) link

i practice a warm, seductive flag post

― Mordy , Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:43 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nice

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 6 June 2013 17:20 (eight years ago) link

lol

the strange and important sound of the synthesizer (Treeship), Thursday, 6 June 2013 17:40 (eight years ago) link

get the fuck outta here.

point taken

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 June 2013 18:00 (eight years ago) link

Rep. Louie Gohmert: "We've all got an Obama phone now"

polyphonic, Thursday, 6 June 2013 18:18 (eight years ago) link

hahahahaha

balls, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:41 (eight years ago) link

that line is funnier than anything jon stewart might say tonight

balls, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:42 (eight years ago) link

You're not alone.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 6 June 2013 23:09 (eight years ago) link

welp greenwald is owning us all the last couple days

lag∞n, Thursday, 6 June 2013 23:15 (eight years ago) link

carrying us around in one of his many pockets

lipitor retriever (brownie), Thursday, 6 June 2013 23:48 (eight years ago) link

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 58s
I wish English language were broader so I could express my simultaneous contempt & mockery for the investigation threats emanating from DC

ha hes still not a very good writer tho

lag∞n, Thursday, 6 June 2013 23:55 (eight years ago) link

http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/4jg2jrj

The bird/key logo is pretty terrible too

polyphonic, Thursday, 6 June 2013 23:56 (eight years ago) link

don't really get the complaints about his writing, he's not mencken or anything but i can think of like a dozen prominent bloggers who are much worse stylists

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 23:59 (eight years ago) link

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 58s
I wish English language were broader so I could express my simultaneous contempt & mockery for the investigation threats emanating from DC

yes, it's the fault of the english language

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Friday, 7 June 2013 00:01 (eight years ago) link

Spyware built in from the first grunts.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 June 2013 00:08 (eight years ago) link

The next Zeitgeist movie is gonna be so dope

polyphonic, Friday, 7 June 2013 00:21 (eight years ago) link

@BarackObama 25m

"In a country where we expect free wifi with our coffee, why shouldn't we have it in our schools?" —President Obama in North Carolina today

GOOD TIMING

polyphonic, Friday, 7 June 2013 00:25 (eight years ago) link

he said "Chill"!

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 June 2013 00:27 (eight years ago) link

My privacy is safe with Google. They do not collect data about me or share it with others.

^^ plz repeat until believed

Aimless, Friday, 7 June 2013 01:02 (eight years ago) link

http://s1.dmcdn.net/a5cU/526x297-iik.jpg

"My name is Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht."

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 June 2013 01:06 (eight years ago) link

NY Times!

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 June 2013 11:21 (eight years ago) link

So he lives in Brazil

curmudgeon, Friday, 7 June 2013 13:28 (eight years ago) link

he wears cargo shorts too

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 June 2013 13:28 (eight years ago) link

Maybe you should post that photo one more time

curmudgeon, Friday, 7 June 2013 13:30 (eight years ago) link

“The N.S.A. is kind of the crown jewel in government secrecy. I expect them to react even more extremely,” Mr. Greenwald said in a telephone interview. He said that he had been advised by lawyer friends that “he should be worried,” but he had decided that “what I am doing is exactly what the Constitution is about and I am not worried about it.”

Seems a little paranoid

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 13:31 (eight years ago) link

hahahaha

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 13:31 (eight years ago) link

he's clearly hoping the government goes after him

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 13:32 (eight years ago) link

"oh plz not the briar patch!"

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 13:33 (eight years ago) link

Jesus Christ Mordy

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 13:33 (eight years ago) link

is there any doubt? i'm sure he'd love to confront the US government head on and in the public eye.

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 13:47 (eight years ago) link

you're right mordy, what a ridiculous person

k3vin k., Friday, 7 June 2013 14:06 (eight years ago) link

the opposite of silly i'd think. such a confrontation would be very good from his pov.

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 14:12 (eight years ago) link

*obama drone strikes glenn greenwald's brazilian sex mansion, leaving only a charred pair of cargo shorts*

[glenn greenwald in Macklemore - thrift sthop voice] This is fucking awesome

i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:16 (eight years ago) link

lol

ttyih boi (crüt), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:17 (eight years ago) link

i'm sure any government response won't involve dropping a drone on glenn, and i don't think that's what he's expecting. he's probably expecting some legal action ala manning or assange.

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 14:18 (eight years ago) link

more likely some kind of sex crimes charge

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:19 (eight years ago) link

if you can't imagine why he'd want to get involved in a public legal battle w/ the united states government i think you don't really get glenn greenwald

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 14:19 (eight years ago) link

ya if he goes to jail he'll be a national celebrity / reddit martyr etc

iatee, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:20 (eight years ago) link

Guys, only Mordy "gets" Glenn Greenwald

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:20 (eight years ago) link

what if waterface were gleen greenwald

iatee, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:20 (eight years ago) link

The only way Gleen Gleenwald is going to jail is if the fashion police arrest him for his corgi shorts.

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:21 (eight years ago) link

walderface

ttyih boi (crüt), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:21 (eight years ago) link

i don't really "get" waterface - does it have a point?

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 14:22 (eight years ago) link

waterface is a personification of all the bile and assholishness on ilx over the last decade, if everyone just started being nice to each other waterface would just disappear

iatee, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:26 (eight years ago) link

nah man you can't pin him down. he's a slippery one, that waterface.

ttyih boi (crüt), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:28 (eight years ago) link

Being at the center of a debate is a comfortable place for Mr. Greenwald, 46, who came to mainstream journalism through his own blog, which he started in 2005. Before that he was a lawyer, including working 18 months at the high-powered New York firm Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz, where he represented large corporate clients.

What was the thread where I defended the appointment of former "corporate lawyers" to regulatory positions and said that I knew big firm lawyers who were further left than any of my other friends, and I got mocked for it?

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:28 (eight years ago) link

I think I'm nice!

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:29 (eight years ago) link

I'm just a truth teller

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:29 (eight years ago) link

you are the darkness inside of all of us

iatee, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:29 (eight years ago) link

I am Shiva, destroyer of words

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:31 (eight years ago) link

you are a weak version of a tired archetype but it's cool to have you on board

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:37 (eight years ago) link

Thank you, Spiral!

waterface, Friday, 7 June 2013 14:39 (eight years ago) link

he's probably expecting some legal action ala manning or assange.

― Mordy , Friday, June 7, 2013 10:18 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok you undersand that manning already is going to be in jail for decades and if he's convicted on the other charges he could be in jail for life.

so no i don't think greenwald would 'welcome' this?

stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:48 (eight years ago) link

well, Manning leaked the information whereas Greenwald benefitted from a whistleblower. Now's the time to wonder whether Eric Holder will keep to his week-old promise not to prosecute journalists who publish this sort of intel.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 June 2013 14:49 (eight years ago) link

why did you put the word welcome between apostrophes?

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 14:51 (eight years ago) link

What was the thread where I defended the appointment of former "corporate lawyers" to regulatory positions and said that I knew big firm lawyers who were further left than any of my other friends, and I got mocked for it?

― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), F

Not sure you got mocked for it (Supreme Court thread maybe re Obama corporate law, Bush admin. attorney nominee for DC Circuit)

curmudgeon, Friday, 7 June 2013 15:15 (eight years ago) link

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Andrew Sullivan <>
Date: Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: glenn greenwald
To: "Kaufman, Leslie" <

I count Glenn as an honest blogger whose passions in real time can sometimes lead to misreadings of others. But we're all vulnerable to that in the blogosphere, and in our various spats, I've always enjoyed the give-and-take, rather than resenting some of the occasionally unfair barbs. They come with the territory. But once you get into a debate with him, it can be hard to get the last word. A friend described debating him as like engaging with a rhetorical trampoline. But I actually enjoy rhetorical trampolining, as long as no one gets hurt too much. I do not take anything he writes about my work personally.
His passion is a great antidote to the insidery access-driven village of Washington journalism, but at times, I think he has little grip on what it actually means to govern a country or run a war. He's a purist in a way that, in my view, constrains the sophistication of his work.
Yes, we're friends. We've hung out a bit, and are bonded by a couple of things. He relies on readers for much of his income (and I rely on readers for all of mine) - and has made online debate much sharper in many ways. I've benefited from his criticism, even as I remain to his "right." And he is forced to live abroad with his partner David because the US refuses to acknowledge the validity and dignity of bi-national gay couples. I was in that exact position for a long time with my American husband - and our shared experience matters a lot to me. Our husbands have also bonded over the same issue.
And I genuinely like him as a human being.
you can use any all or none of that
cheers
andrew

hector_doepos, Friday, 7 June 2013 17:14 (eight years ago) link

I think thats a good reading of GG... ^^^

"ugh, the worst, right? anyway, i just really wanted to share this lustrous takedown of him from some guy's blog i don't know:
http://jacobinism.blogspot.co.il/2013/05/drooling-self-love-dime-store-third.html";

Mordy's initial post is terrible.. incredibly biased.... clearly GG doesn't fit into 'defend the indefensible'

hector_doepos, Friday, 7 June 2013 17:24 (eight years ago) link

that jacobinism article.... is ... just.....

hector_doepos, Friday, 7 June 2013 17:24 (eight years ago) link

so who leaked the NSA stuff?

akm, Friday, 7 June 2013 17:30 (eight years ago) link

As Mr. Greenwald tells it, the last decade has been a slow political awakening. “When 9/11 happened, I thought Bush was doing a good job,” he said. “I was sucking up uncritically what was in the air.”

This surprised me but it explains a lot - the zeal of a convert.

Wish the thread title was changed too.

Deafening silence (DL), Friday, 7 June 2013 17:34 (eight years ago) link

Corner ites often allude to Greenwald's past.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 June 2013 17:37 (eight years ago) link

So Sully knows how to run a country and start a war eh

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 June 2013 17:38 (eight years ago) link

^my thoughts exactly

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Friday, 7 June 2013 17:40 (eight years ago) link

xp Oh great, what splendid company to be in.

David Simon weighs in - "bullshit" apparently

http://davidsimon.com/we-are-shocked-shocked/

Deafening silence (DL), Friday, 7 June 2013 17:41 (eight years ago) link

Allow for a comparable example, dating to the early 1980s in a place called Baltimore, Maryland.

There, city detectives once began to suspect that major traffickers were using a combination of public pay phones and digital pagers to communicate their business. And they took their suspicions to a judge and obtained court orders — not to monitor any particular suspect, but to instead cull the dialed numbers from the thousands and thousands of calls made to and from certain city pay phones.

...All of that — even in the less fevered, pre-Patriot Act days of yore — was entirely legal. Why?

Because they aren’t listening to the calls.

i distinctly remember mcnulty listening in to the actual calls

Z S, Friday, 7 June 2013 17:47 (eight years ago) link

considering the many year existence of the israel suck it thread, i think you guys can deal w/ the title of this thread

Mordy , Friday, 7 June 2013 17:51 (eight years ago) link

Hmmm the title of that thread is "Israel TO WORLD: 'Suck it!'" not "Israel, suck it!" but OK.

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Friday, 7 June 2013 17:58 (eight years ago) link

i distinctly remember mcnulty listening in to the actual calls

that was herc and prez!

j., Friday, 7 June 2013 18:07 (eight years ago) link

@ggreenwald: I'll be on with Anderson Cooper tonight discussing the various disclosures, along with . . . Ari Fleischer.

polyphonic, Friday, 7 June 2013 19:38 (eight years ago) link

hah

lag∞n, Friday, 7 June 2013 19:55 (eight years ago) link

david simon can suck it

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Friday, 7 June 2013 23:37 (eight years ago) link

Greenwald's local roots.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 8 June 2013 02:35 (eight years ago) link

panicked libertarians and liberals and Obama-haters

sort of thought simon was above this tbh

k3vin k., Saturday, 8 June 2013 22:25 (eight years ago) link

there are some cheap shots in there but also some good points? idk i thought it was interesting

flopson, Saturday, 8 June 2013 22:36 (eight years ago) link

simon isnt really above anything, his shows are real good but as an essayist he p belligerent and awful

lag∞n, Saturday, 8 June 2013 22:38 (eight years ago) link

the belligerent parts of that were so funny tho

flopson, Saturday, 8 June 2013 22:47 (eight years ago) link

david simon can suck it

― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Friday, June 7, 2013 7:37 PM

OTM x10

now is not the time for motorboating (dandydonweiner), Saturday, 8 June 2013 23:11 (eight years ago) link

considering the many year existence of the israel suck it thread, i think you guys can deal w/ the title of this thread

shit, I forgot that GG practiced apartheid and wholesale slaughter.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 9 June 2013 06:49 (eight years ago) link

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 8m
Dear NYT: no matter how often you call us "British site," it won't stop being factually false. Rise up above those petty resentments.

emptywheel ‏@emptywheel 5m
@ggreenwald But you're still a loner. Admit it.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 2m
@emptywheel Will you be my friend, Marcy?

lol

lag∞n, Sunday, 9 June 2013 19:14 (eight years ago) link

David Simon is the rich man's Buzz Bissinger.

polyphonic, Sunday, 9 June 2013 19:16 (eight years ago) link

Calling the Guardian a "British news site" is hilariously petty coming from the NYT

Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 9 June 2013 19:19 (eight years ago) link

http://twitter.com/edwardsnowden

markers, Sunday, 9 June 2013 19:22 (eight years ago) link

"Yes, I could be rendered by the CIA. I could have people come after me. Or any of the third-party partners. They work closely with a number of other nations. Or they could pay off the Triads. Any of their agents or assets," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

... (Eazy), Sunday, 9 June 2013 20:37 (eight years ago) link

This guy hiding out in HK really underscores how fucked we are.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 9 June 2013 20:55 (eight years ago) link

True.

I wonder if he is still in HK though? The interview was taped three days ago, he might have moved?

Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 9 June 2013 21:05 (eight years ago) link

He's in Hong Kong. He's living a Zevon song.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 9 June 2013 22:20 (eight years ago) link

send bloggers, guns and money

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Sunday, 9 June 2013 22:51 (eight years ago) link

so snowden peaced out

disappear or disappeared?

#teamedward

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:27 (eight years ago) link

Hayes Brown ‏@HayesBrown 5m
Rep. Peter King just blatantly called for @ggreenwald's arrest on Fox News. Amazing.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 18:25 (eight years ago) link

Greenwald cohort seem to possess a belief that only the rich or privileged can be evil, and a weird almost autistic inability to recognize cultural or ideological (non-economic) fascism.
OTOH, fuck Rep. Peter King.

MV, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:50 (eight years ago) link

you're right, focusing on your area of expertise as a writer clearly means an 'autistic' lack of interest in anything else

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:51 (eight years ago) link

Weird almost autistic inability to read a sentence?

MV, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:55 (eight years ago) link

Which Greenwald cohort? Snowden? Where does he (or whichever "cohort" you are talking about) express views as you suggest? Can you flesh out your varying types of fascism argument?

Maybe I missed something upthread.

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:25 (eight years ago) link

Cohort is a plural, curmudgeon.

Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:32 (eight years ago) link

Ah, it is. So who's in this group?

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:34 (eight years ago) link

What are you talking about MV? What other types of fascism?

Treeship, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:37 (eight years ago) link

Sorry i see now curmudgeon's covered those questions

Treeship, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:38 (eight years ago) link

Greenwald cohort seem to possess a belief that only the rich or privileged can be evil, and a weird almost autistic inability to recognize cultural or ideological (non-economic) fascism.

so sick of people calling Greenwald autistic.

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 22:03 (eight years ago) link

Islamofascism, d00ds. Ever think about THAT, u aspie fux?

― MV

a giant death ray seems a bit overkill (Viceroy), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 22:04 (eight years ago) link

i remember a while back a bunch of prominent liberal bloggers decided that greenwald was obviously a libertarian because he 'never wrote about labor issues.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 22:04 (eight years ago) link

i think there are certain writers who do write as if they are the only writer you read but idk if glenn greenwald is one. he's, yknow, a channel.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:15 (eight years ago) link

i guess no good writer would write that way.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:16 (eight years ago) link

sad libs

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2013 20:52 (eight years ago) link

in 10 years the front page of the nyt will be nothing but crowdsourced mad libs

iatee, Friday, 14 June 2013 20:54 (eight years ago) link

Glenn Greenwald, a dominant hero for the Guardian, whose writing has been described as erotic, revealed orgasmic new information regarding the NSA and its surveillance programs last week.

- A humble student from Michigan

Mordy , Friday, 14 June 2013 20:55 (eight years ago) link

this is the saddest media thing I've ever seen, and last week I saw this: a thread for local TV news insanity

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Friday, 14 June 2013 20:55 (eight years ago) link

we have a thread for the guardian. load all messages for ten years of increasing disillusionment.

caek, Sunday, 16 June 2013 09:16 (eight years ago) link

I think he is a bad writer but I agree with most of the points he makes.

― Michigan seems like a dream to me now (Treeship), Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:41 PMBookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

*rad hug eomticon* (Control Z), Sunday, 16 June 2013 17:07 (eight years ago) link

^^He went from lawyer to blogger to journalist without ever really having an editor.

mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Sunday, 16 June 2013 19:45 (eight years ago) link

^^^ tagline of Greenwald biopic

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 16 June 2013 22:03 (eight years ago) link

GG is a fine writer imo, i'd take his dogged earnestness over a dozen jaded quipsters like alex pareene any day

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 17 June 2013 01:51 (eight years ago) link

i.f. stone was not a great stylist either, yknow

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 17 June 2013 01:52 (eight years ago) link

As a lover of both, not a good comparison.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 June 2013 01:57 (eight years ago) link

pareene could stand to ditch the bloggy voice (this goes for almost everyone who blogs) but he's always a good read

actually i really like pareene, he's not the best example, just the first one that popped to mind.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 17 June 2013 07:19 (eight years ago) link

How much do you want to bet that before the summer is out we'll be saying stuff like "Wow, you'd think Greenwald would've known to not take his car down a canyon at night. SMH I guess he really liked to live on the edge."

Cunga, Tuesday, 25 June 2013 22:06 (eight years ago) link

hmmmmmm nope

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 25 June 2013 22:07 (eight years ago) link

Richard Clarke, the former chief counter-terrorism adviser on the National Security Council, believes that Hasting’s death may have been the result of a cyberattack on his car.

http://www.ibtimes.com/michael-hastings-car-hacking-theory-latest-attempt-explain-suspicious-death-richard-clarke-says#

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 00:28 (eight years ago) link

do you guys even think Obama knows who michael hastings is

iatee, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 00:31 (eight years ago) link

Sure. He reads Andrew Sullivan.

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 00:32 (eight years ago) link

oh no buzzfeed is turning against me I guess I have to kill some people

iatee, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 00:34 (eight years ago) link

maybe the white house should start an animated gif department to counter buzzfeed's gaining influence, also then they won't have to kill so many journalists

iatee, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 00:34 (eight years ago) link

when the us govt wants to get rid of a journalist it doesnt kill him it tries to leverage access w/ other papers and influential ppl to discredit him and prevent him from getting a job. and maybe he kills himself later or something, but it doesnt matter.

when it wants to kill a us citizen it connects him with terrorism and sends a drone in

it doesnt... hack... his car. i mean the sort of willful disregard of the actually weirdly open and transparent workings of power here, which hastings himself had mentioned in the past!

like, if someone said, the MOB took him out, i might buy that?

without even knowing hastings it seems p clear that the poor guy was strung out and paranoid in the final weeks of his life, not hard to end up crashing your car at 4am in a state of mind like that

i suppose you could arrange a kind of aaron swartz style path of causation. but the fbi wasnt investigating him.

max, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 00:57 (eight years ago) link

max is only saying this so he doesn't get killed

iatee, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:00 (eight years ago) link

max u better check the firewall on yr kick scooter

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:03 (eight years ago) link

that being said i guarantee you obama knows who hastings is. hastings is the reason he fired mcchrystal!

max, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:03 (eight years ago) link

Max this is exactly what the government wants you to think, that it won't go down like this. Think abt it.

Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:08 (eight years ago) link

guys you realize richard clarke sees cyberattacks EVERYWHERE right? i mean if you're looking at one individual to point at as to why we have this ridiculously large cyber intel infrastructure now clarke's yr man.

balls, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:09 (eight years ago) link

guys i dont think the government killed michael hastings or will try to kill gg or snowden ftr

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:09 (eight years ago) link

i just think its sort of insane and lol that ~richard clarke~ implied this

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:10 (eight years ago) link

guys

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:11 (eight years ago) link

i mean give the guy credit for blasting the bush admin's incompetence leading to 9/11 (condi rice hadn't even heard of al qaeda on 9/11, head of the fucking nsa) and their immediate (as in 9/12) move to focus on iraq but he's the classic case of maslow's hammer. dude was still beating the 'cyberattacks is the terrorism, WE MUST DIRECT ALL EFFORTS TOWARD FUTURE CYBERWARS!' drum after 9/11 (when it seemed pretty apparent that 'splosions would probably remain the terrorism of the near future at least).

balls, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 01:18 (eight years ago) link

here comes the character assassination: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/greenwald-reporter-broke-nsa-story-lawyer-sued-porn-biz-article-1.1383448

Gukbe, Thursday, 27 June 2013 05:17 (eight years ago) link

Haas said he called the deal off because Greenwald was “demanding changes to the content of the videos which were and are unacceptable.”

suits thinking they have artistic talent smh

lag∞n, Thursday, 27 June 2013 05:46 (eight years ago) link

In a 2003 lawsuit, he and his then partner, Werner Achetz, were sued by their West Side condo board for having a dog that was bigger than building by-laws allowed.

oh man Glenn I take back everything nice I ever said about you

steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 27 June 2013 12:32 (eight years ago) link

most damning is that his consulting company was called Master Notions

chinavision!, Thursday, 27 June 2013 13:13 (eight years ago) link

Bit of a fluff piece but worth reading. His family grew up 25 miles north of me.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/how-glenn-greenwald-became-glenn-greenwald

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 29 June 2013 01:04 (eight years ago) link

i haven't read greenwald in years but what other journalists are trying to do to him is fucking gross

J0rdan S., Saturday, 29 June 2013 01:36 (eight years ago) link

the hagiography should make up for it

Mordy , Saturday, 29 June 2013 02:06 (eight years ago) link

not really

Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 29 June 2013 12:07 (eight years ago) link

Daily News article is bizarre, but I guess Daily News is bizarre.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 29 June 2013 13:30 (eight years ago) link

This is pretty tremendous: http://youtu.be/Uulv4ve6RJ8

Esperanto, why don't you come to your senses? (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 29 June 2013 19:50 (eight years ago) link

have to admit i was pleasantly surprised he kept the conference on his schedule after all this stuff broke, i thought he might bail to avoid "zomg look greenwald is a socialist" bs

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 30 June 2013 16:56 (eight years ago) link

socialist, libertarian, whats the difference

k3vin k., Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:31 (eight years ago) link

step 1 spend your life promoting government paranoia step 2 socialism

iatee, Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:39 (eight years ago) link

heh, yeah, i remember that wiki article really blowing my mind in 10th grade

flopson, Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:46 (eight years ago) link

it's....not a very coherent ideology

iatee, Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:49 (eight years ago) link

kinda bummed that a hoos thought he had to post that for me tbh

k3vin k., Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:53 (eight years ago) link

just like man up and go full maoist or go home imo

flopson, Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:53 (eight years ago) link

cf black flame, the existence of competing ideas under a name with disputed claims doesn't make the strain with a historical claim to legitimacy incoherent

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:55 (eight years ago) link

but that's another thread

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:56 (eight years ago) link

socialists want to fix the government, iatee... fix it BUT GOOD

playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:57 (eight years ago) link

idk it's interesting how infrequently that narrative comes out

iatee, Sunday, 30 June 2013 18:08 (eight years ago) link

hate the government reading yr emails ur gonna love the government telling you where to work

lag∞n, Monday, 1 July 2013 03:05 (eight years ago) link

thx to this thread i always mentally interpose a "fuckin" whenever i read this dude's name

flopson, Monday, 1 July 2013 03:12 (eight years ago) link

mordy fucking mordy

playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 July 2013 05:07 (eight years ago) link

the dead man switch would make an awesome tom ripley novel scenario ~

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/13/reuters-article-dead-man-s-switch

The oft-repeated claim that Snowden's intent is to harm the US is completely negated by the reality that he has all sorts of documents that could quickly and seriously harm the US if disclosed, yet he has published none of those. When he gave us the documents he provided, he repeatedly insisted that we exercise rigorous journalistic judgment in deciding which documents should be published in the public interest and which ones should be concealed on the ground that the harm of publication outweighs the public value. If his intent were to harm the US, he could have sold all the documents he had for a great deal of money, or indiscriminately published them, or passed them to a foreign adversary. He did none of that.

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 14 July 2013 01:54 (eight years ago) link

one month passes...

Mr. Miranda, 28, was questioned about the curious cargo shorts he wears in every photo extant of him and his partner Greenwald

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 18 August 2013 21:22 (eight years ago) link

absolutely disgusting

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 18 August 2013 21:32 (eight years ago) link

yeah. really shocking. v curious to hear about the fallout, it seems stunningly confrontational, & at such a heated moment.

szarkasm (schlump), Sunday, 18 August 2013 21:38 (eight years ago) link

according to twitter, in the UK the rent-a-cops (or whatever you'd like to call the airport security) don't even need suspicion to detain someone for 9 hours, under their antiterrorism statute

k3vin k., Sunday, 18 August 2013 21:44 (eight years ago) link

This fucking thread title never ceases to annoy me.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Sunday, 18 August 2013 21:45 (eight years ago) link

has greenwald been back to the US since the snowden stuff started?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 18 August 2013 21:48 (eight years ago) link

nah, he even skyped in to conference he'd been scheduled to keynote in chicago

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 13:41 (eight years ago) link

nine fucking hours

what assholes

combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:02 (eight years ago) link

really just so dumb

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:08 (eight years ago) link

crazy they have his stuff.

szarkasm (schlump), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:11 (eight years ago) link

This is pretty shitty but goddamn it Greenwald please stop writing things like "This was obviously designed to send a message of intimidation to those of us working journalistically on reporting on the NSA and its British counterpart, the GCHQ."

STOP MINDREADING THE INTENTIONS OF BUREAUCRATS, GLENN. I strongly suspect the reality of the situation was somewhere NEAR what he says but shading ever-so-slightly towards "stupid fuck-up by an asshole overstepping their bounds", which is the explanation for 99.9% of all airport detentions everywhere. I think. I guess. But I'm not going to write that in a newspaper unless I can prove it. That never stops Glenn. He knows what everyone is thinking.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:17 (eight years ago) link

Those stopped have no automatic right to legal advice and it is a criminal offence to refuse to co-operate with questioning under schedule 7

this is fucking crazy.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:18 (eight years ago) link

I strongly suspect the reality of the situation was somewhere NEAR what he says but shading ever-so-slightly towards "stupid fuck-up by an asshole overstepping their bounds"

but like, 9 hours? specifically asking about his reporting?

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:21 (eight years ago) link

Did he ever get his phone and laptop back?

curmudgeon, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:24 (eight years ago) link

That never stops Glenn. He knows what everyone is thinking.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 12:17 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:27 (eight years ago) link

Did he ever get his phone and laptop back?

It sounds like not? Which is like, stealing, by most definitions???

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:30 (eight years ago) link

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/world/europe/britain-detains-partner-of-reporter-tied-to-leaks.html?_r=0

Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media — including video games, DVDs and data storage devices — and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said.

R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:36 (eight years ago) link

I just don't see how they can do they if the guy hasn't been charged. It's not like a bag of weed. It's a USB stick.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:38 (eight years ago) link

at borders they can pretty much just take stuff generally

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:45 (eight years ago) link

part of why they went out of business

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:46 (eight years ago) link

they're still chill at barnes & noble tho

xpost dammit

I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:47 (eight years ago) link

tracer it's in one of the articles that less than 1% of airport detentions under the same provisions last for the full 9 hours

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:47 (eight years ago) link

"stupid fuck-up by an asshole overstepping their bounds", which is the explanation for 99.9% of all airport detentions everywhere = this is the 0.1%

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:47 (eight years ago) link

i would certainly be interested in knowing who gave the order

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:48 (eight years ago) link

turns out it was snowden

xp dammit

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:49 (eight years ago) link

n/m cant handle it

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:50 (eight years ago) link

This is a country, like the US, without a bill of rights.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:50 (eight years ago) link

this is almost certainly illegal, it's just it would take years for any actual ruling affirming it

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:54 (eight years ago) link

"stupid fuck-up by an asshole overstepping their bounds", which is the explanation for 99.9% of all airport detentions everywhere = this is the 0.1%

OK sure, maybe, who knows, but Greenwald just goes ahead and says it like it's cast-iron truth that the (UK?) AUTHORITIES are sending a MESSAGE to JOURNALISTS to TREAD LIGHTLY. i mean really? is that really what the UKBA are doing? or are they just power-hungry bastards who thought they smelled a tip that confidential info might be crossing a border and figured they'd put the guy through the wringer? if they were the kind of illuminati that greenwald makes them out to be they'd have realized a mile away that giving dude this kind of treatment would reap nothing but shit

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:56 (eight years ago) link

I dunno. I might be scared of dating a Greenwald in the future?

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:58 (eight years ago) link

OK sure, maybe, who knows, but Greenwald just goes ahead and says it like it's cast-iron truth that the (UK?) AUTHORITIES are sending a MESSAGE to JOURNALISTS to TREAD LIGHTLY. i mean really? is that really what the UKBA are doing? or are they just power-hungry bastards who thought they smelled a tip that confidential info might be crossing a border and figured they'd put the guy through the wringer? if they were the kind of illuminati that greenwald makes them out to be they'd have realized a mile away that giving dude this kind of treatment would reap nothing but shit

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 12:56 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you are describing the same thing twice, only in the second scenario they aren't as good at it

the ukba being retards and the ukba having authorization from the home office or equivalent are not mutually exclusive possibilities

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:59 (eight years ago) link

or are they just power-hungry bastards who thought they smelled a tip that confidential info might be crossing a border and figured they'd put the guy through the wringer?

How is this different than indeed sending a message to tread lightly?!

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 16:59 (eight years ago) link

its the authorities fucking w greenwalds sex life for sure, open yr eyes

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 16:59 (eight years ago) link

if they were 'just sniffing' it wouldn't take nine hours

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:00 (eight years ago) link

I don't get why they're exchanging documents that way when public key cryptography exists. Good luck trying to break a 15360-bit RSA key. Literally you could just send stuff to each other via gmail, using your real name, with body text "here are some more secret documents from Snowden, enjoy!" It is dramatic though.

eris bueller (lukas), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:00 (eight years ago) link

yeah the implication is the same xxp

k3vin k., Monday, 19 August 2013 17:00 (eight years ago) link

i think the differentiation tracer is making is if it was the bad idea of some lower level functionaries or the plotting of higher level functionaries

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:01 (eight years ago) link

greenwald has a hyperbolic prose style, everyone knows this, i haven't read his article about this anyway but the reasons for what happened are fairly obvious, if not provably so

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:01 (eight years ago) link

which is imho a meaningful differince

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:02 (eight years ago) link

higher level functionaries, with 98% certainty

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:03 (eight years ago) link

there u go

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:03 (eight years ago) link

and like, i dunno. come on. if greenwald likes to imagine that he's in a spy novel he should start acting like it. if you are in possession of info that multiple national governments have classified as confidental and detrimental to national security if disclosed, etc etc then you don't just get a magical shield with "journalist" written on the front of it that means nobody hassles you about it when you're crossing borders with it. maybe in greenwald's ideal world you do, but if anybody knows how far from that ideal the world we live in is, it should be greenwald. now, i think the snowden info is important and needs to be known by the public. but you have to be a little smarter than sending your extremely cute and relatively well-known boyfriend through several countries to act as a courier for information that you know is highly contentious!

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:03 (eight years ago) link

which is imho a meaningful differince

― lag∞n, Monday, August 19, 2013 1:02 PM (1 minute ago)

the higherups who authorized it will never admit it though, it's the only inference to draw

k3vin k., Monday, 19 August 2013 17:04 (eight years ago) link

If your boyfriend was detained the max limit without arresting him while you're publishing revelatory NSA stuff who ordered it is immaterial. Remember "denialibility"?

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:05 (eight years ago) link

It's a meaningful difference, maybe, but the outcome is the same: you can get held for nine hours, your stuff taken away from you, and basic human rights don't count any more.

Whether it was Camerom himself or just two cops goofing about it important, I agree, but in both cases it is clear that as a journalist - or partner of, even - you aren't safe.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:06 (eight years ago) link

Tracer, I question whether David Miranda is cute.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:06 (eight years ago) link

you have to be a little smarter than sending your extremely cute and relatively well-known boyfriend through several countries to act as a courier for information that you know is highly contentious!

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:03 (1 minute ago)

uhm that is the assumption the ukba or their superiors made

there is no suggestion his boyfriend was actually carrying state secrets on his wii or whatever

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:07 (eight years ago) link

He's relatively well known for a photo in which he walks a dog in cargo shorts and flip-flops.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:07 (eight years ago) link

There's no way they would have even known who he was without someone at a reasonably high level telling them. The security services would almost certainly have been involved, I think.

Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:09 (eight years ago) link

It's a meaningful difference, maybe, but the outcome is the same: you can get held for nine hours, your stuff taken away from you, and basic human rights don't count any more.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 1:06 PM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when you cross borders you surrender a lot of rights, they can search you take yr stuff etc, you enter into this situation voluntarily via crossing the border, tho in this case he was just transferring at the airport which obvs complicates the situaiton

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:10 (eight years ago) link

Pretty tacky dog imo

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:10 (eight years ago) link

Yes. And what complicates it even more is that he is GG's partner.

Xp

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:10 (eight years ago) link

There's no way they would have even known who he was without someone at a reasonably high level telling them. The security services would almost certainly have been involved, I think.

― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Monday, August 19, 2013 1:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah he was for sure at least on some watch list, which is pretty dubious

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:11 (eight years ago) link

Tracer, it sounds like you're saying this isn't dubious behavior because Greenwald (a) didn't figure this could happen and (b) writes hyperbolic prose.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:13 (eight years ago) link

naw hes saying greenwald is jumping to conclusions re the machinations that led to the dunbiousnes

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:14 (eight years ago) link

and like, i dunno. come on. if greenwald likes to imagine that he's in a spy novel he should start acting like it.

I like to think that Miranda was a decoy and this was specifically to write hyperbolic prose about because he knew it would happen. The real docs went some secure digital way, as above.

Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:17 (eight years ago) link

I mean if it's a spy novel that's like Misdirection 101.

Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:18 (eight years ago) link

there were no real docs, its all a ruse in order to... blog

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:18 (eight years ago) link

can the UKBA do this 9hr detention with olbigation to cooperate thing to british citizens too?

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:19 (eight years ago) link

usb sticks? wtf?

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:19 (eight years ago) link

yes. i'm also saying that he should choose maybe a more sneaky way of transferring extremely sensitive info than like, his boyfriend and a usb stick. i'm not suggesting that what happened is JUSTIFIED either morally or probably even legally, just that greenwald is maybe being kind of dim about it?

there is no suggestion his boyfriend was actually carrying state secrets on his wii or whatever

nakh did you read goole's post?

Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:20 (eight years ago) link

Mark me down as another one kind of amazed neither Greenwald nor Poitras has ever heard of WeTransfer. "I'll put all these documents on a flash drive, because this is a movie, and it's 2007."

誤訳侮辱, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:20 (eight years ago) link

maybe this is just his way of breaking up

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:21 (eight years ago) link

miranda is gg's husband ftr

k3vin k., Monday, 19 August 2013 17:22 (eight years ago) link

so Miranda would have been stopped even if he was not GG's spouse -- is that what some of you Mordyites are saying?

Maybe GG knows what everyone's thinking the way Obama 'skeptics' know that the True Librul in O's heart of hearts detests the authoritarian policies he vigorously pursues.

anyway, after reading Maass's NYT Mag piece on Poitras I would've thought she and GG were more careful about thius stuff.

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:23 (eight years ago) link

ah i did not know. i feel like he's always referred to as "partner" so i extrapolated. wrongly.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:23 (eight years ago) link

no i didn't read that and probably should have but it seems sort of superfluous because all of that could be fully encryped and sent electronically anyway

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:23 (eight years ago) link

reading comprehension morbs, as always

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:24 (eight years ago) link

Morbius me too! the second graf, when she gets the first dump from snowden, she literally pulls the ethernet cable out of her computer immediately and shuts it down.

"oh plus we have to meet in berlin. why? don't worry about it, it'll be cool."

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:24 (eight years ago) link

seems the detention was by the police, not the ukba, which is worse in a sense, because in their defense, the ukba are merely incompetent.

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:29 (eight years ago) link

if miranda had classified material from a foreign security agency (nsa) then that would still be ultra vires wrt the terrorism act

i don't give a fuck about glenn greenwald and sure this treatment could hardly have come as a surprise to him

so he may be a hysterical imbecile playing at spy games or he might just have arranged this in the expectation ukba would engage in a counterproductive interception and the optics would help greenwald/snowden

it's not like the only transfer from berlin to south america is via london.......

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:31 (eight years ago) link

yeah the detention was by police but i guess it would have been ukba who intercepted him? so substitute the names but it doesn't affect the rest of the argument

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:33 (eight years ago) link

jesus ppl on this thread are ruthless.

wtf is wrong with everyone.

Who's ruthless exactly? Because not everyone is saying the same tbh

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:34 (eight years ago) link

this treatment could hardly have come as a surprise to him

really

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:34 (eight years ago) link

the art of pretend fascism

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:35 (eight years ago) link

waiting for it...

I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:35 (eight years ago) link

What I do hate is ad-homs like 'he should have known' this etc. if only Greenwald was so smart as we all are eh?

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:35 (eight years ago) link

can the UKBA do this 9hr detention with olbigation to cooperate thing to british citizens too?

Yes, they can do it to anyone at airports, sea ports and international rail terminals.

Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:36 (eight years ago) link

Abuse of power and the ignoring of basic human rights here are glaringly staring in everyone's face here. Yet some still can't go beyond 'whaa he didn't see this coming'?

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:37 (eight years ago) link

yeah unless u were very lax or retarded u would know uk govt will always go out of the way to help america, greenwald would probably know this

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:37 (eight years ago) link

lbi and hoos idk if u are just being dense or

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:38 (eight years ago) link

Nakh, even if he should have known better - because I agree that he was naive probably - that still isn't the biggest thing here is it? The main point is that his husband was detained for 9 hours. 'Knowing the uk will always help the us' doesn't take anything away from this being a disgraceful act.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:39 (eight years ago) link

oy

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:40 (eight years ago) link

Abuse of power and the ignoring of basic human rights here are glaringly staring in everyone's face here. Yet some still can't go beyond 'whaa he didn't see this coming'?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 1:37 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbf seems like people were saying this as an aside

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:40 (eight years ago) link

saying this was hardly unexpected does not somehow mean this wasn't unconscionable, lest that weren't obvious from the posts where i said it was a disgrace etc

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:41 (eight years ago) link

@fivethirtyeight
"Never connect at Heathrow if you can possibly avoid it" is right up there with "never get involved in a land war in Asia"

polyphonic, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:41 (eight years ago) link

otm

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:41 (eight years ago) link

True.

Xxxp and xxp

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:41 (eight years ago) link

i wouldn't get a partner mixed up in this stuff. but then i wouldn't get myself mixed up in this stuff either.

R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:42 (eight years ago) link

@fivethirtyeight
"Never connect at Heathrow if you can possibly avoid it" is right up there with "never get involved in a land war in Asia"

― polyphonic, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:41 (2 minutes ago)

yeah i can't imagine greenwald would not know this, or have been told by his wikileaks friends

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:45 (eight years ago) link

@GGreenwald
A real mystery: suspenseful RT @OKnox White House won't say whether US tried to discourage UK from detaining @ggreenwald's partner.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:45 (eight years ago) link

hey did we discuss julian assange coming out as an old-right pro lifer anywhere

R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:47 (eight years ago) link

The White House "was informed" about Miranda being detained at Heathrow, I'm reading. Ow

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:48 (eight years ago) link

Lol Goole no I don't think so :) that was o_O though

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:48 (eight years ago) link

haha wait he's pro-life?? i saw he was into ron paul, which, of course

max, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:48 (eight years ago) link

You could meet a person in a cafe and pay them $500 plus the cost of their ticket to deliver anything in the world that doesn't smell like drugs or explosives and they'd never be looked at. It just doesn't seem like this could possibly be accidental. This is zero comment on whether it's unscrupulous personal harassment, which it obviously is.

Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:49 (eight years ago) link

Also in case anyone needs anything, you can pay me $500 plus the cost of my ticket to deliver anything that doesn't smell like drugs or explosives, just ftr.

Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:50 (eight years ago) link

haha wait he's pro-life?? i saw he was into ron paul, which, of course

― max, Monday, August 19, 2013 1:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and RAND paul!

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:51 (eight years ago) link

So,

and like, i dunno. come on. if greenwald likes to imagine that he's in a spy novel he should start acting like it.

I mean, I know it's annoying when people think they're in a spy novel. Sure. Is that what GG's actually doing, though? Really?

if you are in possession of info that multiple national governments have classified as confidental and detrimental to national security if disclosed, etc etc then you don't just get a magical shield with "journalist" written on the front of it that means nobody hassles you about it when you're crossing borders with it.

I'm still following up this story, and cannot for the life of me work out whether or not Miranda had anything on him. Did he or did he not? Help me out here.

cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:53 (eight years ago) link

a thumb drive w secrets

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:54 (eight years ago) link

a thumb drive w <s>secrets</s> next season's line of cargo shorts

Here's the storify, of a lovely ladify (Phil D.), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:55 (eight years ago) link

shit

Here's the storify, of a lovely ladify (Phil D.), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:55 (eight years ago) link

I've got a fistful of secrets if yaknowwhatImean

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:57 (eight years ago) link

a friend of mine told me that in israel a sandisk is a big employer and everyone calls thumbdrives disc-on-key

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:58 (eight years ago) link

Nilmar is basically saying GG is not one of the smart -- naaaahhhh

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 August 2013 17:58 (eight years ago) link

k

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 17:59 (eight years ago) link

I do think Greenwald's biggest mistake today was saying he will write more aggressively and release more classified info now. He should have released the anyway.mnow it almost sounds like "ok guys I was going to give youse a break but you've gone too far now!' Which is nagl a motivation for a journalist.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:00 (eight years ago) link

yeah journalism is not really his natural habitat

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:02 (eight years ago) link

Nilmar is basically saying GG is not one of the smart -- naaaahhhh

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:58 (3 minutes ago)

did you actually read this post

defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:04 (eight years ago) link

GG says Reuters tore his remarks out of context.

I will be on the Snowden thread.

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:07 (eight years ago) link

I dunno

I'm not sure whether or not I 'give a fuck' about GG either but it's kind of the principle of the thing isn't it

cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:07 (eight years ago) link

yeah you can't read either

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:09 (eight years ago) link

Also Nilmar are you coming from a 'giving away classified documents is a dangerous, stupid thing to do' angle or a 'This man is annoying to me' angle?

I'm open to the first (but probably need to have it spelled out to me) and the second is understandable in that people find people annoying

cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:11 (eight years ago) link

Lagoon, all I'm saying is it makes him come across as someone acting out of vengeance instead of just journalism. He's making it personal. I know it was made personal by detaining his husband but you need to try and separate the two, no?

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:12 (eight years ago) link

Nilmar isn't coming of neither angles iirc, he's better than that.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:13 (eight years ago) link

Either, not neither

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:13 (eight years ago) link

xp and Nilmar I'm not a Snowden/GG/Assange 'fan' or whatever, just trying to get a handle on all this. Spare a thought for people whose comprehension moves slightly slower than political events

cardamon, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:13 (eight years ago) link

i just want to make sure i understand--i'm being willfully naive if i think it's a problem that a guy publishing information about government spying by one country has his partner detained at an airport for 9 hours to be questioned about further publications by another country? is that the general idea? whether he should have 'expected' it or not is entirely beside the point--that it occurred at all is outrageous, and to deny that is to make peace with the notion that this is normal. and fuck that.

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:13 (eight years ago) link

I don't really like that the whole NSA discussion is done in those thread, because for future reference/posterity, it'll be troublesome to locate some info, but anyway.

I've not read everything everyone has said, but my take is pretty simple, and I do make a few inferences, so take it with a grain of salt.

My conclusion is that Greenwald was very suspicious that there was a high probability of this happening to his partner--even higher if it was Greenwald himself transporting the data, so why not make it more interesting? Yes, I feel very strongly that this is a game to see who outwits the other. I have no problems with him doing this, because it is what moronic governments deserve. I'm not singling out a country, I am referring to my own country of Canada, plus the UK, and the USA.

Exhibit A: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/laura-poitras-snowden.html?pagewanted=10&_r=1&

"Their discussion turned to the question of coming back to the United States. Greenwald said, half-jokingly, that if he was arrested, WikiLeaks would become the new traffic cop for publishing N.S.A. documents. “I would just say: ‘O.K., let me introduce you to my friend Julian Assange, who’s going to take my place. Have fun dealing with him.'"

Poitras prodded him: “So you’re going back to the States?"

I had a problem with this article because of its long-form. It puts people off. I question whether it got anywhere near the same amount of reads as other shorter articles, making certain details inaccessible to readers who are put off by 10 pages of literature.

We also have this: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-snowden-s-files-are-out-there-if-anything-happens-to-him.html

“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in Rio via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,” Greenwald said. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the possibility exists.”

When asked if Greenwald believed his computer was being monitored by the U.S. government. “I would be shocked if the U.S. government were not trying to access the information on my computer. I carry my computers and data with me everywhere I go.”

Greenwald knows. People who are keeping up with the story know.

WikiLeaks leaked an AES256 encrypted insurance file. It's on the Internet. I'm not going to link to it but a simple Google search will locate it. The assumption is that they used openSSL and is something the NSA can easily crack. I tend to agree with this line of thought.

This was a test. To see what the gov't would react. Just as the gov't played along, seeing how Greenwald would react.

In that sense, it might've been a decoy, but their is also the assumption that the NSA already know everything Snowden/Greenwald/Poitras have. So all this confiscation is part of the theatrical drama played out for the mainstream public. Link/bait/etc.

Thing is, Greenwald is playing that game and trying to use it against them.

Just my opinion.

c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:14 (eight years ago) link

to be expected or not, it should not be fucking occurring. that simple.

xp

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:14 (eight years ago) link

I'm with you Hoos, but tbf everyone here acknowledged it shouldn't have happened already.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:16 (eight years ago) link

saying this was hardly unexpected does not somehow mean this wasn't unconscionable, lest that weren't obvious from the posts where i said it was a disgrace etc

― No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, August 19, 2013 5:41 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry i flew off the handle, i missed this post. my bad.

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:20 (eight years ago) link

there's a pretty simple narrative here and it keeps getting clouded up. like the history of this thread itself is ppl basically saying 'greenwald is occasionally ok i guess, but he keeps making outrageous accusations' and then you get leaks that substantiate those outrageous accusations and more and then ppl say 'oh man, i guess its ok greenwald published this stuff, but i wish someone less prone to outrageous accusations did' and then the next thing happens and its amnesia all over again: wait? on what basis is greenwald suspecting the worst? we live in a nation of laws lololol.

and then this triple-layer spy vs. spy shit projected on top -- maybe snowden was a false flag and greenwald false-flagged that and then secretly they're both false flags of the big cover-up from the athletic-doping complex, i mean really?

i mean i guess nutty conspiracy theories are easier to accept than just the government is spying on everyone and detaining whoever it likes and that's the world we live in, full stop.

i just want to make sure i understand--i'm being willfully naive if i think it's a problem that a guy publishing information about government spying by one country has his partner detained at an airport for 9 hours to be questioned about further publications by another country? is that the general idea? whether he should have 'expected' it or not is entirely beside the point--that it occurred at all is outrageous, and to deny that is to make peace with the notion that this is normal. and fuck that.

― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:13

just summarizing my prior posts, though they weren't that ambiguous

- this detention is an affront to justice in letter and spirit, even if you aren't a greenwald fanboy
- greenwald has plenty of useful acolytes including the main leftwing uk newspaper so he probably was not taken completely by surprise at the shitty conduct of uk authorities
- just maybe he was aware that if it happened, a few hours inconvenience for his boyfriend would yield good optics & the data was securely encrypted anyway
- now it has happened and greenwald is getting the most sympathetic press since the first round of snowden stories broke, his boyfriend is free and unharmed

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:26 (eight years ago) link

glen greenwald's boyfriend was an inside job

my issue with greenwald's article is the issue i always have with him, which is that the truth is bad enough, he doesn't need to gild the lily by claiming that the UK Border Agency is "sending a message" to journalists. he has no fucking idea what the UK Border Agency was thinking, or who was directing them.

every day people are detained for an hour, two hours, three hours for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL, other than like, they once bought a car from a guy who donated to a church that had a congregation member arrested on suspicion of having a telephone call with a member of hezbollah. now here we have a guy who is carrying classified national security documents. like, actually carrying them. it is entirely predictable that, as greenwald's partner, he will be nabbed with these. having re-read the NYTimes Mag article on poitras and greenwald, it really is hard to believe that she and greenwald were this naive. it's REALLY hard. they took endless precautions. so i kinda suspect when the NSA finally cracks the USB sticks it's gonna be rickroll.jpg?

just to make things clear to hoos and underrated aerosmith bootlegs et al, yes i also think it's despicable that he was detained for nine hours and completely loco that his stuff was essentially stolen even though has wasn't charged with anything.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:35 (eight years ago) link

having re-read the NYTimes Mag article on poitras and greenwald, it really is hard to believe that she and greenwald were this naive. it's REALLY hard. they took endless precautions.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:35 (5 minutes ago)

this is what lends credibility the INSIDE JOB narrative, the holographic missiles or the tnt or whatever

america had several sovereign nations refuse airspace and force a foreign president's aeroplane to land on the mere suspicion snowden was aboard, the chance that the most deferent nation of all would somehow neglect to intercept a snowden accomplice is virtually nil, it's just implausible that greenwald would be so naive not to know this

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:52 (eight years ago) link

can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:53 (eight years ago) link

theyve gone too far this time

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:57 (eight years ago) link

ctrl-f "buttlips" - found

am0n, Monday, 19 August 2013 18:57 (eight years ago) link

They came for the white dudes, and I said nothing, because I was not a white dude.
(oh wait...)

slamming on the dubstep brakes (snoball), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:59 (eight years ago) link

yeah nobody gave a fuck when they sent chuck d to nicaragua and tortured him to death for stealing documents from the nsa

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:59 (eight years ago) link

.....

I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:00 (eight years ago) link

...and i said nothing because i was not a white dude with a thumbdrive full of secrets in my cargo shorts

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:00 (eight years ago) link

there isn't really any direct precedent to snowden &c

america is a white supremacist nation, everyone knows this, it doesn't really pertain to what is happening here or lend any light to this minor injustice by relating it to an unrelated and much greater injustice

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:02 (eight years ago) link

can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, August 19, 2013 2:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

David Miranda isn't white

dun dun DUN

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:04 (eight years ago) link

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:07 (eight years ago) link

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in case this thread didn't have its ticket punched to clusterfuckville

Hey i didn't bring it up. DJP hasn't been in here before, came in to drop that, and left again.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:10 (eight years ago) link

Which is fine. But a recipe for derailing the thread tbh

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:11 (eight years ago) link

dropped it from his thumbdrive filled with reverse racism

szarkasm (schlump), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:11 (eight years ago) link

Playing the race thumbdrive xp darn it

Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:12 (eight years ago) link

dan is the real racist imho

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:13 (eight years ago) link

xposts: lbi i wasn't attacking you, just responding your question

A.Clover I realized that a second too late, thanks and nbd

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:14 (eight years ago) link

S. s.clover

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:14 (eight years ago) link

no miranda rights for this guy!!

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:22 (eight years ago) link

should dump this on whatever assange thread we have, but since i brought it up:

http://twitlonger.com/show/n_1rlvd57

And so, that's quite an interesting phenomenon in the United States. The position of the Libertarian Republican, or a better description Right, coming from a principle of non-violence which is the American Libertarian tradition. That produces interesting results.

So, non-violence: well, don't go and invade a foreign country. Non-violence: don't force people at the barrel of a gun to serve in the U.S. Army. Non-violence: doesn't extort taxes from people to the federal Government with a policeman. Similarly, other aspects of non-violence in relation to abortion that they hold.

I think some of these positions that are held by Rand Paul, while I can see how they come from the same underlying Libertarian principle, I think the world is often more complex and by taking a no-doubt principled, but sometimes simplistic position, you end up undermining the principle.

R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:23 (eight years ago) link

yo LBI just fyi it's really really not ok to shout down a black person for "bringing up race," especially when discussing an issue (e.g. airport security/screenings) for which race is blatantly a major determining factor. no matter where you live. #whitebtw

I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:26 (eight years ago) link

...

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:26 (eight years ago) link

I can't even tell if you are serious or not...

"Shout down"?!

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:27 (eight years ago) link

good grief

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:29 (eight years ago) link

whatever. never mind.

I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:29 (eight years ago) link

over under on lbi leaving this thread?

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:30 (eight years ago) link

keep on truckin guys, clusterfuckville just around the bend, they got lotsa posts there

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:32 (eight years ago) link

glad to see the PC BRIGADE have shown up to censor our language

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:32 (eight years ago) link

Jesus Curtis. I "shout down a black person" according to you, and now you just say "never mind"? Gee thanks a lot dude.

I responded to DJP marching in saying "can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?"

Is that really "what this really is"? Miranda isn't even white! Dan implies we finally think this code of conduct isn't ok because it happens to a white person (which Miranda isn't btw, but lets stay fact free right?) and I get flack for "shouting down a black person"?

Fuck that.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:35 (eight years ago) link

Caek, why would I leave this thread?

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:35 (eight years ago) link

you can't censor t'internet man

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:35 (eight years ago) link

I had a long post about how a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person, and that a good amount of the outrage was coming out of that reading but given that the overarching reaction I got was "everyone knows the US is racist so we don't need to talk about it" I figured I'd honor the parameters people want the conversation to be in and listen to my better judgment this time.

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:37 (eight years ago) link

I'd also point out that I had posted a couple of jokes earlier in the thread, both today and two months ago, which would at least signal that I'd been reading the thread if not being an active participant, but you know what fuck it

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:38 (eight years ago) link

I agree with Dan that there's overwhelming evidence this sort of thing happens all the time to non-white people, and that most of the time it's hardly noticed in the wider media or culture, and that way more people seem upset about this than would be upset if dude's name was Mohamed and he wasn't dating Glenn Greenwald.

xp!

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

hadn't even occurred to me, goddamn

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:39 (eight years ago) link

lbi, you have a tendency to say (at best) tin-eared things then leave threads after being called out. i wish you luck on this latest quest.

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:39 (eight years ago) link

also dan don't mean to put words in yr mouth obv, just a reading of what i thought you were saying

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:39 (eight years ago) link

kind of jealous that gg has a brazilian boyfriend

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:41 (eight years ago) link

Hoos that is pretty much exactly what I was saying.

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:41 (eight years ago) link

@Caek, did I say tin-eared things?

I know for sure no one engaged in this thread has ever made light, has always acknowledged, how white people get picked on way less, in every respect. And that that is repulsive. I just don't see how it is that relevant to this particular issue.

And I certainly don't care for being told to I a "shouting down a black person". I forcefully resent that.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:44 (eight years ago) link

I too agree with what Hoos said up here. But to say that that is what this is really about, that this is a racist issue, that I do not agree with.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:45 (eight years ago) link

but the thing is, race is always an issue, when you say 'let's not make this about race,' that is tin-eared

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:46 (eight years ago) link

it is probably 'easier' in some v. important ways to detain a brown person for nine hours than it is to detain a white person, all secret spy info aside

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:47 (eight years ago) link

What does that mean, Matt? That Greenwald's husband was less likely to have been detained if he was white? I just don't believe that. They detained the husband because it was Greenwald's husband.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:48 (eight years ago) link

He, not it

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:48 (eight years ago) link

Srsly why bring in skin colour?

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hey i didn't bring it up. DJP hasn't been in here before, came in to drop that, and left again.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:10 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Which is fine. But a recipe for derailing the thread tbh

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:11 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm sorry you don't care for it when people point out your terrible posts, but this seems to be incredibly dismissive and pretty much the definition of a presumption of bad faith.

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:48 (eight years ago) link

a good chunk of the discourse around this was casting Greenwald's husband's detainment as an attack on Greenwald, turning the detention of a person of color into an intimidation tactic against a white person

i don't mean to speak against this, but, greenwald himself has been pushing discourse in this exact way. greenwald being the 'real target' in the whole mess, miranda just the courier.

it does make you wonder if the UK authorities would have dared detain greenwald himself, had he chosen to travel to see poitras personally via london

which makes you wonder if that was part of the motivation to have miranda act as a trusted but non-famous go-between.

which makes you FURTHER wonder why greenwald would think miranda would NOT be on the authorities' radar, given their capabilities and motivations. which is kinda what nilmar was getting at earlier.

R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:49 (eight years ago) link

it rubs the secrets on its skin

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:49 (eight years ago) link

Ok Caek, you made your point. I just don't think this is about the color of one's skin. Greenwald's husband was detained because he is Greenwald's husband.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:50 (eight years ago) link

tbf over the last decade or so there has been a lot of tearing of clothes and mashing of teeth over the extra judicial detainment of people who are not white eg gitmo, which is not to say that people arent inordinately exercised over this particular incident, some of which is prob wrapped up in race and a lot of which has to do w how people feel journalists should be treated and is driven a lot particularly by how journalists feel journalists should be treated, journalists of course are often wite btw

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:50 (eight years ago) link

i guess i'm asking "what did greenwald expect?" not in a sense of snotty, cynically dismissiveness; i really do wonder what gg expected to happen here.

R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:51 (eight years ago) link

i don't mean to speak against this, but, greenwald himself has been pushing discourse in this exact way. greenwald being the 'real target' in the whole mess, miranda just the courier.

I am fully aware of this; it's one of the things I dislike about Greenwald.

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:51 (eight years ago) link

mashing of teeth

lol u need to brush up on your bible stories

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:52 (eight years ago) link

spread the resulting paste between two intact teeth

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:53 (eight years ago) link

I fully agree with lampoon. I just don't see this particular imcident - which is what we are talking about on this thread - as something motived by race/racism.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:53 (eight years ago) link

Lampoon lol. Lagoon.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:54 (eight years ago) link

I fully agree with lampoon. I just don't see this particular imcident - which is what we are talking about on this thread - as something motived by race/racism.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre)

missing the point

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:54 (eight years ago) link

it's like a cross between the paddy considine bits of bourne and idk, edward albee or something. what do you think their home life is really like??

R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:54 (eight years ago) link

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:55 (eight years ago) link

alfred i at least am on record in this thread calling miranda a total hottie. seriously confused by your disagreement on this issue tbh

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:56 (eight years ago) link

he looks too much like an ex tbh, although the latter didn't use thin flip-flops.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:57 (eight years ago) link

once again, for the record:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02647/guardian_2647256b.jpg

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:57 (eight years ago) link

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

That Greenwald himself is one of the people doing this is icing on a very frustrating cake.

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:58 (eight years ago) link

mashing of teeth

lol u need to brush up on your bible stories

― i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:52 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i do my own translations

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:58 (eight years ago) link

anti-cargo shorts discussions are definitely denying miranda his autonomy as a human being

I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:58 (eight years ago) link

i understand that you disagree, lbi.

but "don't bring in skin colour", as though it's something self-indulgent or narcissistic or trolling, is not the way to express that.

apparently i have made my point to your satisfaction though so.

caek, Monday, 19 August 2013 19:58 (eight years ago) link

if i was mama miranda i'd be throwing shit at greenwald's head right now and chasing him around the room, is what i'm trying to say on this thread

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:00 (eight years ago) link

in the movie, directed by Sean Penn, Glenn Greenwald (Bradley Cooper) will turn to David Miranda (James Franco) and explain before leaving to meet Snowden (Justin Timberlake) how "life's gonna get fucked up for the both of us" from now on.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:01 (eight years ago) link

dan's point in part is that these discussions have denied Greenwald's non-white husband autonomy as a human being.

― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 19, 2013 3:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eh idk not sure we need to get all gender studies on this, from the point of view of the story it makes a lot of sense to look at it like this, guy was acting as greenwalds gopher

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 20:01 (eight years ago) link

xp I will watch the shit out of that movie tho

Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:01 (eight years ago) link

i...what...the last 50 posts

k3vin k., Monday, 19 August 2013 20:02 (eight years ago) link

those flat-tops are more objectionable than cargo shorts imo

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:02 (eight years ago) link

by picking on aspects of his look you are denying him agency over how terrible his look is as a whole

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 20:03 (eight years ago) link

i understand that you disagree, lbi.

but "don't bring in skin colour", as though it's something self-indulgent or narcissistic or trolling, is not the way to express that.

apparently i have made my point to your satisfaction though so.

― caek, Monday, August 19, 2013 9:58 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I didn't perceive it as self-indulgent or trolling. I just didn't see how it was relevant, but i see what you mean. I still don't think they detained Greenwald's partner "easier" or earlier because he isn't white (and I still don't understand why Dan said Miranda was white in the first place, if that was an error or not).

But I understand where you are coming from now. It's not about my satisfaction . But to be told, by Crut, that I am "shouting down a black person" is a shocker. It implicates a lot of things about me that are completely untrue. And with brute force, no less.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:06 (eight years ago) link

LBI does tend to say some tonedeaf race stuff, i chalk that up to being euro, and i'm certainly sympathetic to looking at events through a race-literate lens, but in fairness DJP's first post was at best a little vague

k3vin k., Monday, 19 August 2013 20:07 (eight years ago) link

Do I know you?

"Tonedeaf race stuff"?!

Examples please...

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:08 (eight years ago) link

And clusterfuckville right on schedule. Population: us

tempting to believe nakh's theory, including "they would be more likely to detain you because you're brown."

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:09 (eight years ago) link

eh idk not sure we need to get all gender studies on this, from the point of view of the story it makes a lot of sense to look at it like this, guy was acting as greenwalds gopher

Having read the Guardian piece and the NY Times piece, I feel that this renders the "family should be off-limits" retort nonsensical. It is a given that this shouldn't have happened, regardless of who was traveling with the documents, but acting extra outraged because it was your husband and not you screams of having your cake and eating it, too. Like, either dude is helping you and is cosigning onto facing and weathering the static, or you are a gross user putting someone who didn't sign up for it in danger and then turning their discomfort and trauma into a ego piece about yourself. The "He's not even a journalist" line especially rankles, because why would you ask him to transport these documents for you if he was unwilling to take on the risk of being detained?

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:16 (eight years ago) link

otm

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 20:17 (eight years ago) link

spread the resulting paste between two intact teeth

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, August 19, 2013 7:53 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my god

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:17 (eight years ago) link

LBI - Sorry for singling you out & saying you shouted. "Why bring up skin color?" is just a pet peeve of mine; I honestly do think saying such things stifles open discussion & I was honestly appalled that you would ask such a thing because I thought Dan was making an important point. I know that's not what you intended. I was trying to be gentle w/my response but I fucked it up.

I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:22 (eight years ago) link

Thanks Curtis, I appreciate that. I for one am sorry my reply came across that blunt. I didn't intend it that way. And I do think everything is on limits here, race too, for it is an interesting take on things I - and no one on this thread - had tread on before. I didn't recognize it as such at the time though, thought it was a brash interruption of what we had been speaking about for hours. The issue of race suddenly popping up. But that was my blunt way of responding. I didn't intend to insult anyone or dismiss it.

Group hug.

In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 19 August 2013 20:31 (eight years ago) link

I do think Greenwald's biggest mistake today was saying he will write more aggressively and release more classified info now. He should have released the anyway.mnow it almost sounds like "ok guys I was going to give youse a break but you've gone too far now!' Which is nagl a motivation for a journalist.

here is what greenwald actually said:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rm09tf

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 19 August 2013 21:43 (eight years ago) link

he will burn london to the ground

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 21:58 (eight years ago) link

to the ground

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 19 August 2013 21:58 (eight years ago) link

hes gonna wear one of those masks and post to reddit everyday

lag∞n, Monday, 19 August 2013 22:02 (eight years ago) link

greenwald and twitlonger are truly made for each other. btw i love how dude is shocked, shocked that reuters would interpret his answers as just a leetle vengeful??

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 22:04 (eight years ago) link

I don't care if you're black, white, greenwald...

kinder, Monday, 19 August 2013 22:18 (eight years ago) link

Speaking by phone from the couple's home in the Tijuca forest, Miranda said it felt "awesome" to be back. "It's really good to be here. I felt the weight lift off my shoulders as soon I got back. Brazil feels very secure, very safe,"

this is trolling at its most rarified level

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 23:14 (eight years ago) link

drinking a caipirinha on the porch in his flip-flops, with his dog.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 23:17 (eight years ago) link

swimming with piranhas in cargo shorts, in a crime ridden favela *"knowledge" of brazil exhausted*

you're better off in a supersonic jet (Hunt3r), Monday, 19 August 2013 23:20 (eight years ago) link

guardian editor alan rusbridger has now written his own article about this, and is responding to comments under the article:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-schedule7-danger-reporters

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 23:24 (eight years ago) link

A little over two months ago I was contacted by a very senior government official claiming to represent the views of the prime minister. There followed two meetings in which he demanded the return or destruction of all the material we were working on. The tone was steely, if cordial, but there was an implicit threat that others within government and Whitehall favoured a far more draconian approach.

The mood toughened just over a month ago, when I received a phone call from the centre of government telling me: "You've had your fun. Now we want the stuff back." There followed further meetings with shadowy Whitehall figures. The demand was the same: hand the Snowden material back or destroy it. I explained that we could not research and report on this subject if we complied with this request. The man from Whitehall looked mystified. "You've had your debate. There's no need to write any more."

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 23:24 (eight years ago) link

And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian's long history occurred – with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian's basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents. "We can call off the black helicopters," joked one as we swept up the remains of a MacBook Pro.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 23:27 (eight years ago) link

In a private viewing cinema in Soho last week I caught myself letting fly with a four-letter expletive at Bill Keller, the former executive editor of the New York Times. It was a confusing moment. The man who was pretending to be me – thanking Keller for "not giving a shit" – used to be Malcolm Tucker, a foul-mouthed Scottish spin doctor who will soon be a 1,000-year-old time lord. And Keller will correct me, but I don't remember ever swearing at him. I do remember saying something to the effect of "we have the thumb drive, you have the first amendment".

The fictional moment occurs at the beginning of the DreamWorks film about WikiLeaks, The Fifth Estate, due for release next month. Peter Capaldi is, I can report, a very plausible Guardian editor.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 23:30 (eight years ago) link

Speaking by phone from the couple's home in the Tijuca forest, Miranda said it felt "awesome" to be back. "It's really good to be here. I felt the weight lift off my shoulders as soon I got back. Brazil feels very secure, very safe,"

this is trolling at its most rarified level

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 7:14 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

damn that sounds like a cool ass place to live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuca_Forest

lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 00:00 (eight years ago) link

i had this weird long daydream the other day about what it would be like to live in a rainforest.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 00:01 (eight years ago) link

alfred hey, the man knows his way around an seo-heavy lead graf, whatcha gon do

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 00:02 (eight years ago) link

can we just say what this really is, which is now that ostensibly democratic governments are targeting and detaining white dudes for talking shit about them, it's finally unacceptable?

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, 19 August 2013 19:53 (Yesterday)

the reason i gave this short shrift is because you are describing miranda as white

and yeah miranda being described as 'white' was not implausible having scanned through maybe one photo of him, the uk is not the same as america or brazil, there's no equivalent category to 'latino' or 'pardo' so a lot of south americans are just sort of seen as 'white - other'

to the actual argument occluded by this, that miranda is a minority person whose victimization is not credited, or only credited by proxy because they have husband....sure, and yes it's unfortunate that greenwald's monomania only furthers this

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 00:55 (eight years ago) link

/have a white husband/

No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 00:56 (eight years ago) link

slob imo:

Greenwald lives and works in a house surrounded by tropical foliage in a remote area of Rio de Janeiro. He shares the home with his Brazilian partner and their 10 dogs and one cat, and the place has the feel of a low-key fraternity that has been dropped down in the jungle. The kitchen clock is off by hours, but no one notices; dishes tend to pile up in the sink; the living room contains a table and a couch and a large TV, an Xbox console and a box of poker chips and not much else. The refrigerator is not always filled with fresh vegetables. A family of monkeys occasionally raids the banana trees in the backyard and engages in shrieking battles with the dogs.

Greenwald does most of his work on a shaded porch, usually dressed in a T-shirt, surfer shorts and flip-flops. Over the four days I spent there, he was in perpetual motion, speaking on the phone in Portuguese and English, rushing out the door to be interviewed in the city below, answering calls and e-mails from people seeking information about Snowden, tweeting to his 225,000 followers (and conducting intense arguments with a number of them), then sitting down to write more N.S.A. articles for The Guardian, all while pleading with his dogs to stay quiet. During one especially fever-pitched moment, he hollered, “Shut up, everyone,” but they didn’t seem to care

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/laura-poitras-snowden.html?hpw

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:07 (eight years ago) link

glenn is an unusual cat

lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:09 (eight years ago) link

imagining him drinking and playing heads up poker v his husband after a long day of blogging

lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:11 (eight years ago) link

in the jungle

lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:11 (eight years ago) link

the reason i gave this short shrift is because you are describing miranda as white

This was a mistake in wording on my part. What I was trying to get across as that Miranda's entire experience has been cooped and transferred to Greenwald in the conversation about this incident but I let my desire to be pithy get in the way.

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:35 (eight years ago) link

Grr co-opted

Stupid spell check

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:35 (eight years ago) link

(And yes, it was also tied to the context of white dudes who were a-okay with brown people getting hassled in airports suddenly finding TSA intrusions beyond the pale when they were the ones getting frisked.)

OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:39 (eight years ago) link

lets bear in mind that among such dudes was not greenwald. i don't know about miranda's experience getting transferred to greenwald but it is important to recognize that it sort of indisputably happened because of his links to greenwald, which is not to say that race couldn't also play a role or etc.

"Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 01:58 (eight years ago) link

(And yes, it was also tied to the context of white dudes who were a-okay with brown people getting hassled in airports suddenly finding TSA intrusions beyond the pale when they were the ones getting frisked.)

― OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY (DJP), Monday, August 19, 2013 9:39 PM (1 hour ago)

i'd actually imagine that the vast majority of the people who are upset over this incident are also the people who oppose a lot of what the TSA does and the racial profiling that is a part of that

k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 03:09 (eight years ago) link

now that i've seen photos of his dude, glenn is punching way out of his class. good for him.

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 03:12 (eight years ago) link

living in a brazilian jungle with hot boyfriend sounds like an ideal life aside from the whole "multiple governments trying to systematically tear your life apart" thing

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 03:14 (eight years ago) link

i need a vacation from my vacation!!!

R'LIAH (goole), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 03:36 (eight years ago) link

who's cooler: greenwald or kim dot com

( (brimstead), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 04:02 (eight years ago) link

defend the indefensible: fucking glenn greenwald

i am.. a maven (Matt P), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 04:59 (eight years ago) link

can't

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 05:02 (eight years ago) link

"You've had your debate. There's no need to write any more."

Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:38 (eight years ago) link

debate been had son

BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:50 (eight years ago) link

I dunno if I can fuck a dude with monkeys crawling over me and Laura Poitras in the next room, worrying about my dumping info in my boyfriend's butt.

first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:51 (eight years ago) link

that is way too many dogs

polyphonic, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:17 (eight years ago) link

sad this thread stopped tbh

imago, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 12:21 (eight years ago) link

Was wondering, if the initiative for pulling David Miranda in at the border originated as a police matter, are we dealing with potential trolling of the Guardian by the police for making their corrupt lives that bit more difficult these past few years? I mean, they can't pull in Nick Davies so...

aldi young dudes (suzy), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 12:29 (eight years ago) link

having re-read the NYTimes Mag article on poitras and greenwald, it really is hard to believe that she and greenwald were this naive. it's REALLY hard. they took endless precautions. so i kinda suspect when the NSA finally cracks the USB sticks it's gonna be rickroll.jpg?

having now read this article I have to agree. Poitras had been stopped in airports over 40 times and had electronics confiscated to the point that she had stopped traveling with computers when possible. although it did say that she would give her computer to a traveling companion to carry through airport security on the theory that they wouldn't be detained and questioned, so maybe they thought Miranda wasn't himself on a watch list. I doubt it though.

dmr, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 16:36 (eight years ago) link

i kinda suspect when the NSA finally cracks the USB sticks it's gonna be rickroll.jpg?

a 172 hour HD video of greenwald's cats

there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 16:41 (eight years ago) link

with "Yakety Sax" as the soundtrack.

Shart Week (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 16:49 (eight years ago) link

he has dogs god have we learned nothing

lag∞n, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:05 (eight years ago) link

sry

i have no eye for pets

there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:13 (eight years ago) link

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1003353_10152133848209112_690021497_n.jpg

great to be doge

polyphonic, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:27 (eight years ago) link

Gleen

R'LIAH (goole), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:28 (eight years ago) link

one month passes...

'The venture ... will be “a general media outlet and news site — it’s going to have sports and entertainment and features. I’m working on the whole thing'

the fuck?

zvookster, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 20:44 (eight years ago) link

so like, dave zirin, tennis ... profit!

zvookster, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 20:51 (eight years ago) link

dude is gonna get paid, good for him

k3vin k., Tuesday, 15 October 2013 21:02 (eight years ago) link

but general interest seems like a not that great idea, better to go deeper in his niche imho

lag∞n, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 21:03 (eight years ago) link

it’s going to have sports and entertainment and features.

Glennland

乒乓, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 21:04 (eight years ago) link

outrageland

lag∞n, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 21:04 (eight years ago) link

lol yrs was better

lag∞n, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 21:05 (eight years ago) link

YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE NSA DID IN ONE RESTON BATHROOM

This might be the most important 6,000 words you ever read

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 21:10 (eight years ago) link

Washington Post has an article on it, as well: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/10/15/glenn-greenwald-bolts-the-guardian-for-some-fabulous-media-organization/

Maybe he can hire some IL Xor users.

c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 22:27 (eight years ago) link

As to its headquarters, we asked Greenwald whether any consideration had been given to locating it outside of the United States, given the legal sensitivity of the reporting he has done in recent months. He declined to answer, but gave us a treat and noted that it’s an “important and good question.”

Mordy , Tuesday, 15 October 2013 22:36 (eight years ago) link

what a treat

lag∞n, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 22:49 (eight years ago) link

he gave them the treat then said that

zvookster, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 22:58 (eight years ago) link

http://www.makeyourownjeans.com/custom-shorts/cool-cargo-shorts

buzza, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 01:01 (eight years ago) link

lol xp

lag∞n, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 01:04 (eight years ago) link

good to see glenn monetizing his personal brand!

balls, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 14:38 (eight years ago) link

max be the prophet https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/294228722154868737

zvookster, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 14:45 (eight years ago) link

haha that will never get old. even greenwald laughed at it iirc, one of three documented cases of him laughing, first one not involving his dogs.

balls, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 14:47 (eight years ago) link

lol I reluctantly find this amusing

lag∞n, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 15:37 (eight years ago) link

just two bros walking dogs to outdoor Beyonce concert

http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/GlennGreenwald1.jpg

the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 October 2013 15:41 (eight years ago) link

i support this one million % as a thing for a billionaire to spend his money on

lag∞n, Wednesday, 16 October 2013 20:43 (eight years ago) link

one month passes...

heh

Maria Bustillos ‏@mariabustillos 28m
Smug, long-winded, and correct on all counts: @ggreenwald answers his critics http://utdocuments.blogspot.com.br/2013/12/questionsresponses-for-journalists.html

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 1m
@mariabustillos Better than humble, concise and wrong on all counts! Thanks.

lag∞n, Sunday, 1 December 2013 15:38 (seven years ago) link

the only part id take issue with is this

And as our source has repeatedly proven: if he's unhappy about how matters are proceeding or has something to say, he's more than willing and able to speak out.

snowden obvs belongs to russian intelligence at this point

lag∞n, Sunday, 1 December 2013 15:48 (seven years ago) link

also lol at greenwald being super upset at josh marshall when all he did was tweet a link sans comment to the article

lag∞n, Sunday, 1 December 2013 15:49 (seven years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/LmFjTVX.png

do RTs represent endorcements

lag∞n, Sunday, 1 December 2013 17:21 (seven years ago) link

there certainly seems to be a bit of professional jealousy in the air, though some of the points that have been raised have been valid

k3vin k., Sunday, 1 December 2013 22:18 (seven years ago) link

two months pass...

His new site is launched : https://firstlook.org/theintercept/

StanM, Monday, 10 February 2014 12:40 (seven years ago) link

lol at the first of what will be numerous digital magazines *displays blog*

this internet thing is really taking off

lag∞n, Monday, 10 February 2014 20:23 (seven years ago) link

how can they even spend 250 million on this site, it just looks like quartz

iatee, Thursday, 20 February 2014 02:45 (seven years ago) link

maybe they're giving taibbi an unlimited drug and whore fund

iatee, Thursday, 20 February 2014 02:45 (seven years ago) link

GG won a Polk Award on Sunday, I guess Mordy wasn't on the panel. Ceremony is April 11 in NYC, he may return to the US for it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2014/02/snowden-leaks-honored-by-polk-awards-183450.html

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 20 February 2014 17:22 (seven years ago) link

The Intercept and Pando Daily are currently at war on Twitter over a Mark Ames article showing that Omidayar and the US State Dept. had been funding anti-government groups in Ukraine prior to the current crisis. As Ames mentions in his article, Pando itself is partly funded by Peter Thiel whose politics are sickening. Highlights how complicated notionally independent online media gets when you start turning to billionaires for money.

Yuri Bashment (ShariVari), Saturday, 1 March 2014 07:48 (seven years ago) link

the pando bros are really annoying to follow on twitter is all i have to say about this

k3vin k., Saturday, 1 March 2014 12:14 (seven years ago) link

i enjoy and appreciate their work but there is a certain level of pettiness and professional jealousy imbued in all of their written work (and that practically defines their online personae) that i find suffocating

k3vin k., Saturday, 1 March 2014 12:38 (seven years ago) link

k3vin otm, i like ames's work a lot but their obsession with discrediting greenwald is way more personal than political and long predates omidayar.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 2 March 2014 17:33 (seven years ago) link

it'll be "interesting" to see what his relationship is with taibbi now

k3vin k., Sunday, 2 March 2014 17:46 (seven years ago) link

i dont know ames doesnt find it exhausting being the way he is

AIDS (Hungry4Ass), Sunday, 2 March 2014 18:18 (seven years ago) link

his book on spree shooters is great though

AIDS (Hungry4Ass), Sunday, 2 March 2014 18:19 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Tom Ricks has a growing suspicion that Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden are up to something.

On Saturday, the Pulitzer Prize-winning national security reporter posed a question to Greenwald on Twitter.

"Glenn, any comments from you or Edward Snowden on the recent round of media shutdowns in Russia?" Ricks asked.

After initially referring Ricks to Snowden's representative at the ACLU, Greenwald asked Ricks if he had any comment on "Peruvian police corruption," "corporate waste dumping in E Africa," or a U.S. drone strike from last year that killed 13 people en route to a wedding party in Yemen.

Sure, Ricks said, he'd be "happy to comment," but not before he saw Greenwald denounce Vladmir Putin "and his crackdown."

The next day, after he evidently didn't get the response from Greenwald that he was looking for, Ricks took to Twitter to denounce "Peruvian police corruption and US drones that kill innocents."

"Now [your] turn to discuss Putin," Ricks said to Greenwald.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/tom-ricks-glenn-greenwald-edward-snowden

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 March 2014 17:40 (seven years ago) link

GG's mom = Angela Lansbury

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 17 March 2014 18:49 (seven years ago) link

four weeks pass...

WaPo, Guardian win Pulitzers for NSA/Snowden coverage

CONGRATS GLENN FUUUUUUCKING GREENWALD

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 14 April 2014 19:14 (seven years ago) link

bet those pulitzers have cameras in them

I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Monday, 14 April 2014 19:22 (seven years ago) link

CONGRATS GLENN FUUUUUUCKING GREENWALD

― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, April 14, 2014 7:14 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

purposely lend impetus to my HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 14 April 2014 19:43 (seven years ago) link

I'm hearing that in Rick's (from Rick & Morty) voice, with a burp extending the "FUUUUUCKING."

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 14 April 2014 20:28 (seven years ago) link

three weeks pass...

appearing at Politics & Prose in DC next Wednesday! Day before I visit probly, goddammit.

http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/polpro/639084

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 May 2014 04:18 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Kinsley, a columnist for Vanity Fair and a longtime liberal commentator

He's no liberal, or at least no longer a conventional liberal. He seems unpredictable and kinda grouchy old guy in most of his writing I have read lately.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 May 2014 21:58 (seven years ago) link

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/05/23/response-michael-kinsley/

Greenwald responds to Kinsley

curmudgeon, Friday, 23 May 2014 18:37 (seven years ago) link

god, fuck that guy

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 23 May 2014 18:56 (seven years ago) link

i guess threatening 'unpleasant' journalists with prison time has now become the preferred default position of smug nominally liberal 'centrists.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 23 May 2014 19:01 (seven years ago) link

hippie punching uber alles

https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2014/05/prioritizing-personalities-over-free-press

anonanon, Tuesday, 27 May 2014 23:33 (seven years ago) link

What explains the different reactions? Sure, some of it can be attributed to temperament. Gellman strikes me as having a knack for disarming people, a knack Greenwald has no apparent inclination to develop or deploy himself. But I think there’s something more fundamental at work here. Correctly or incorrectly, I think Gellman is widely perceived to be adversarial within the system, and this is something the system is willing to accept even if the reporter in question does the kind of superb journalism Gellman does. But Greenwald, again correctly or incorrectly, is widely perceived to be adversarial to that system. And for the system itself, that kind of adversity is an unpardonable sin.

Or you know, it might be that temperament thing. People tend not to like full-throated assholes.

Mordy, Tuesday, 27 May 2014 23:41 (seven years ago) link

This is OTMFM:

And the uncompromising work and aggressive deportment of someone like Greenwald acts as a kind of mirror in which these people are forced to view the most unflattering version of themselves. The admirable reaction would be to hold yourself to a higher standard and try to do better. The more common reaction is to hate the person who is causing your increased awareness of your own shortcomings.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 27 May 2014 23:42 (seven years ago) link

You forgot the rest, Mordy:

So here’s the situation. A fellow journalist — in the newspaper that once published the Pentagon Papers — calls for the government to assume ultimate decision-making authority over what the media is allowed to publish, describes another journalist as a “go-between” and “perpetrator” for his reporting, and wonders aloud whether journalists who do such reporting ought to be “locked up”… and not one of these journalists finds any of it even worthy of mention. What they do find worthy of mention is that they think Greenwald is a jerk, or self-righteous, or a sourpuss, or whatever other appellation they use when they scrunch up their noses at someone who upsets them. Even the few who don't explicitly praise Kinsley’s piece for being a personal attack on Greenwald have no problem at all with Kinsley’s call for ultimate governmental publishing authority or any of his other attacks on journalism. Goldberg merely recommends another, similar screed by George Packer. Harwood calls the piece “valuable.” David Gregory, managing in typical fashion to be both banal and sycophantic, finds the most relevant aspect of Kinsley’s call for prior restraint is that it’s “an interesting addition to the debate."

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 May 2014 23:43 (seven years ago) link

i don't want to defend any of these assholes really. i just think it's more likely that they dislike greenwald for the same reason i do - bc he's such a smug shit. it's not like i'm a part of the threatened system. i'm just a reader who finds him intensely dislikable.

Mordy, Tuesday, 27 May 2014 23:58 (seven years ago) link

he's a guy marked by an air of superior piety or morality. it's not an attractive quality for anyone, even someone doing important work.

Mordy, Tuesday, 27 May 2014 23:59 (seven years ago) link

How does that make him different than 90% of anyone who gets written about in a newspaper?

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:01 (seven years ago) link

idk piety is kinda out of step with the times don't u think? being a 'real person' is aspirational.

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:02 (seven years ago) link

again, why this fascination with biography? You don't have to blow him or get a beer with him.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:04 (seven years ago) link

Being a 'real person' is just another form of moral superiority. Witness all the "Washington Outsiders" with decade-long careers writing about Washington.

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:05 (seven years ago) link

ok adam that's a great point it's all a performance meant to self-aggrandize but some performances are particularly gauche + greenwald has one of the gauchest

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:06 (seven years ago) link

Yeah but that's cos he probably didn't pay for the appropriate media training (in order to seem more real LOL). I find that refreshing and makes him more trustable. Rather have a truth-telling jerk than otherwise.

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:07 (seven years ago) link

+ if he did a better job keeping his personality out of his journalism probably ppl would be less transfixed by its grotesqueries

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:08 (seven years ago) link

haha yeah i'm sure that's why i dislike him, bc he didn't pay for the appropriate media training adam u crack me up bro keep it up man good posting

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:09 (seven years ago) link

Sorry i didn't mean that as an attack on you, I meant in general, he gets crap from a lot of places. I just jumped in 10 minutes ago and to be honest I'm just gonna leave cos I didn't realize I was participating in an argument and I'd rather play video games.

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:12 (seven years ago) link

i don't want to defend any of these assholes really. i just think it's more likely that they dislike greenwald for the same reason i do - bc he's such a smug shit.

i have a hard time believing that any of those guys would be bothered by greenwald's 'air of superior piety or morality' if he were just another pundit saying the same things as everyone else. is greenwald more of a jerk than thomas friedman?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:21 (seven years ago) link

no one likes thomas friedman

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:21 (seven years ago) link

Barack Hussein Obama likes Thomas Friedman.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:25 (seven years ago) link

BHO also likes David Brooks. An NPR liberal, that Barry.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 00:26 (seven years ago) link

I'm no Greenwald fanboy but the way those establishment journos express such catty disdain as part of endorsing Kinsley's authoritarian position is embarrassing

as usual Lane is the worst and Gregory is mind-numbingly inane

anonanon, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 01:16 (seven years ago) link

yeah but he can move!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln5RD9BhcCo

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 01:18 (seven years ago) link

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/publiceditor/2014/05/27/kinsley-greenwald-and-government-secrets/?_php=true,true&_type=blogs,blogs&smid=tw-share&_r=1

NY Times Book review editor is a bit disengenuous here when confronted with criticism

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:23 (seven years ago) link

Kinsley's arguably more smug than Greenwald, and a lesser journalist too

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:25 (seven years ago) link

kinsley's the better journalist (or was rather) but is incredibly more smug. both suffer from a lack of a certain kind of seriousness but greenwald's cynicism is more honorable and possibly more productive than kinsley's ever was.

balls, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:42 (seven years ago) link

also margaret sullivan isn't the times book review editor

balls, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:44 (seven years ago) link

I've no problem with whom the NYT picked to review the book – in 1989 I would've assigned Hitchens to write a hatchet job. It's his goddamn opinions.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:46 (seven years ago) link

this quote is kind of apropos

After dinner, “Larry (Summers) leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice,” Ms. Warren writes. “I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don’t criticize other insiders.

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:54 (seven years ago) link

would've assigned rahul sagar, in 89 maybe try to get moynihan, whose jock kinsley has been dreaming of carrying for over 30 years

balls, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:55 (seven years ago) link

also margaret sullivan isn't the times book review editor

― balls, Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:44

I know, I was referring to her/the ombudswoman's views versus the editor's. The editor here is pretending not to know of Kinsley's record of expressing disdain for reporters.

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 17:28 (seven years ago) link

calling ppl 'smug' on this board is fucking hilar

People tend not to like full-throated assholes.

much more the ones who are wrong, which is all that matters

(Kinsley hasn't been a liberal in maybe 35 years, unless you mean of the Chuck Schumer school, calling Israel "she" and shit)

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 17:31 (seven years ago) link

if you had any curiosity about why ppl dislike you, you might find that criticisms of greenwald's odious personality work well for u as well

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 17:39 (seven years ago) link

now now it's not like greenwald defends child molesters

balls, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 17:42 (seven years ago) link

James Clapper and Keith Alexander don't exactly have wonderful personalities

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 18:13 (seven years ago) link

Digby: "Glenn Greenwald may be the biggest asshole on the planet (he isn't, btw) but to even mention that, much less dwell on it when we are discussing something of such major importance betrays this pathetically provincial (and frankly somewhat adolescent) view of what matters in this world. If a critic cannot rise above his personal pique at an author's personality and see the work through a lens not colored by resentment and bitterness then it's probably best not to start an ilx thread about him"

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 20:38 (seven years ago) link

ugh, the worst, right

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 6 June 2014 19:24 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

why the FUCK do i find out about this today? PR, people?

http://www.haymarketbooks.org/event/4116

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 June 2014 11:10 (seven years ago) link

That was announced months ago. He's also speaking in Chicago this weekend.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 24 June 2014 13:44 (seven years ago) link

where was my alert, Tarfumes, lots of things happen months from now and that's a bleedin' decade for me

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 June 2014 16:44 (seven years ago) link

Get on the Haymarket mailing list! That's how I found out.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 24 June 2014 17:09 (seven years ago) link

i used to work for H4ymark3t, so no thx

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 June 2014 17:20 (seven years ago) link

huh! didn't know this

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 24 June 2014 17:25 (seven years ago) link

one month passes...

some buddies of mine interviewed greenwald last week and got some interesting answers out of him on the decisions regarding what to publish/withhold

http://emoprog.libsyn.com/episode-20-glenn-greenwald-and-murtaza-hussain

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 4 August 2014 13:53 (seven years ago) link

never got around to posting about this:
my friend who has visited brazil a couple times in the last year said that there's a local news roundtable show that greenwald appears on, but he caters his commentary and a lot of it is him strongly implying the united states is very interested in brazil's going-ons and is probably heavily spying on them

mh, Monday, 4 August 2014 13:58 (seven years ago) link

lol

lag∞n, Monday, 4 August 2014 13:59 (seven years ago) link

leave it to gg to give away the game

Now you're messing with a (President Keyes), Monday, 4 August 2014 14:20 (seven years ago) link

dogs and husbands -- that's all life is

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 August 2014 14:28 (seven years ago) link

Thursday Style section came early this week...

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/04/business/04CARRjp3/04CARRjp3-articleLarge.jpg

the one where, as balls alludes (Eazy), Monday, 4 August 2014 16:56 (seven years ago) link

one month passes...

Greenwald, Poitras, Scahill appearing a week from Thurs night (free, no reservations) in Brooklyn.

Nation Books and The Intercept invite you to celebrate the paperback launch of DIRTY WARS by Jeremy Scahill.

With special guests Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras, the leading journalists who broke the Edward Snowden story and blew the lid off the NSA's global and domestic surveillance ops.

FREE & OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. NO RESERVATIONS. FIRST COME-FIRST IN.
https://www.facebook.com/events/725774267459266/

Event will be held on the 3rd floor of Mayday Space, located at 214 Starr Street. Take the L train to the Jefferson stop in Bushwick, Brooklyn.

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 October 2014 18:59 (seven years ago) link

im going to that to citizens arrest glenn

lag∞n, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 19:41 (seven years ago) link

MISTER GREENWALD STOP

IN THE NAME OF THE LAW

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 20:48 (seven years ago) link

"just kidding"

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 20:48 (seven years ago) link

YOUR BLOG CANT PROTECT YOU HERE

lag∞n, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 20:49 (seven years ago) link

IN BROOKLYN

lag∞n, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 20:49 (seven years ago) link

ON THE THIRD FLOOR

lag∞n, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 20:49 (seven years ago) link

please be wearing sunglasses when u do this

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2014 16:42 (seven years ago) link

don't forget to witness lag∞n's arrest of GG tonight on the 3rd floor

this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:47 (seven years ago) link

well glenn i guess you wont be posting anymore

http://i.imgur.com/2Ph8aJw.gif

updates

lag∞n, Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:51 (seven years ago) link

ahaha

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 9 October 2014 20:00 (seven years ago) link

i was detained at the border and all my thumb drives were removed from their ziploc bag

lag∞n, Friday, 10 October 2014 15:20 (seven years ago) link

^^^ sexx talk

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 October 2014 15:21 (seven years ago) link

one month passes...

intercept still goin

Betsy Reed ‏@betsyreed2 4h4 hours ago
I will miss The Nation, which I will always love, but I could not be more excited to be joining @the_intercept

lag∞n, Friday, 5 December 2014 20:48 (six years ago) link

Has his readership decreased since leaving the guardian? Never hear about him anymore but that might just be because being outraged at the nsa isn't trendy now

Treeship, Friday, 5 December 2014 20:50 (six years ago) link

dunno prob, smaller platform, also big layoff

lag∞n, Friday, 5 December 2014 20:52 (six years ago) link

I assumed his readers, at least, would follow him. I used to be a fan in college but was annoyed by his alwaysalreadyoutraged/exasperated tone, which in 2014 seems like the only writing style that still exists

Treeship, Friday, 5 December 2014 20:54 (six years ago) link

sure hes got hardcore readers but if ur writing for a big org like the guardian ppl just see yr stuff too

lag∞n, Friday, 5 December 2014 20:56 (six years ago) link

i used to read him on blogspot btw og greenwald

lag∞n, Friday, 5 December 2014 20:57 (six years ago) link

I started reading with salon. Thats when i first really became aware of commenters

Treeship, Friday, 5 December 2014 20:58 (six years ago) link

og greenwald

― lag∞n, Friday, December 5, 2014 12:57 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is this a weed name yet

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 5 December 2014 21:00 (six years ago) link

annoyed by his alwaysalreadyoutraged/exasperated tone, which in 2014 seems like the only writing style that still exists

― Treeship, Friday, December 5, 2014 8:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is otm

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 6 December 2014 23:34 (six years ago) link

I have to say, one of the benefits of Tuesday, despite all my frustrations with the process, is that it has prevented anybody from denying that America tortured — and not just in the three cases of waterboarding. It actually has been a disinfectant of that central lie. I mean, for a long time, that was the debate; it wasn’t “Is torture good?” it was “These things aren’t torture!” Dick Cheney described [waterboarding] as dunking people’s head into water.

What was really annoying for those of us who were actually [covering] this is that the waterboarding was almost the least of it. It was the easiest case to call torture because there was a whole body of law calling waterboarding torture; but [the larger issue] was the entire regiment of techniques that they were using that clearly constituted torture — not on dozens or even hundreds but thousands of people, and not just at Guantánamo but around the world. It was a systematic regime of torture, and I think yesterday’s report has prevented that from being denied any longer.

And that’s why people like Nicolle Wallace and others are now resorting either to “Yes, we tortured, and we should have!” (which I think is a healthy thing to force them to say) or “Yes, we tortured, and we shouldn’t have, but we’re still the greatest thing ever to exist.”

http://www.salon.com/2014/12/11/exclusive_corrupt_toxic_and_sociopathic_glenn_greenwald_unloads_on_torture_cia_and_washingtons_rotten_soul/

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 December 2014 18:31 (six years ago) link

corrupt_toxic_and_sociopathic_glenn_greenwald

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 11 December 2014 18:53 (six years ago) link

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 14m14 minutes ago
Over the last decade, some of the worst human rights abuses in Cuba have taken place at this dungeon called .... "Guantanamo".

LOL

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 18 December 2014 14:25 (six years ago) link

the entire regiment of techniques

GET 1 (ONE) PROOFREADER.

Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, 18 December 2014 14:41 (six years ago) link

it was a verbal interview

Vic Perry, Thursday, 18 December 2014 16:06 (six years ago) link

Unless GG very clearly pronounced the "t," I assume that whoever transcribed it introduced the error bc they didn't know the difference. This is why everything needs proofreaders.

Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, 18 December 2014 16:11 (six years ago) link

That makes sense.

Vic Perry, Thursday, 18 December 2014 16:25 (six years ago) link

@LilianaSegura
There's editing at the bar. And there's editing at the Port Authority bowling alley bar with @ggreenwald & @jeremyscahill. Our finest work.

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 18 December 2014 17:15 (six years ago) link

Links to 4 excellent articles from the last month's worth of The Intercept, only one of which is by Greenwald, & NONE of which are about the NSA (aw, so boring! so tiresomely "trendy", "being outraged at the NSA"....folks (not 'tortured' folks) here at ILXOR are all far too cool for):

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/16/u-s-tv-media-gives-ample-platform-american-torturers-victims/

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/17/billion-dollar-surveillance-blimp-launch-maryland/

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/17/barrett-brown-sentenced/

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/11/20/everything-know-shooting-michael-brown-darren-wilson/

Vic Perry, Friday, 19 December 2014 00:38 (six years ago) link

ilx is world renown for its dispassionate, Realpolitik approach to politics

Mordy, Friday, 19 December 2014 00:40 (six years ago) link

I Am Trying To Break Your Heart - Wilco

Vic Perry, Friday, 19 December 2014 00:43 (six years ago) link

three weeks pass...

watch as they morph into the media barons they once despised

lag∞n, Sunday, 11 January 2015 13:44 (six years ago) link

I have no idea why something about that exchange is supposed to be revelatory.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 11 January 2015 15:33 (six years ago) link

is it... are u...

lag∞n, Sunday, 11 January 2015 15:54 (six years ago) link

update

lag∞n, Sunday, 11 January 2015 15:54 (six years ago) link

what the hell is that?

I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 19 January 2015 00:09 (six years ago) link

I love the way Mordy keeps doubling down on the stupid long after his little gee-ha-ha-had on Greenwald has utterly gone wrong-side-of-history.

From the "awesome" url posted:

"A Paris jihadist spoke of turning to terror after seeing Americans torturing Iraqi prisoners on television. It is not to defend such barbarities to say they were but one side of a savage conflict. They too had a past."

defend the indefensible: torture. Right man, there was probably a really good reason for that stuff. Let's hear what it was.

"They did not express the immutable will or character of the American people."

No it wasn't "immutable." After falling all over themselves to support it and freaking out at all dissent, the American people then comfortably blamed it on Bush as soon as they realized it was a stupid move, and all talk of the overwhelming support of 2003 went bye-bye.

"A half-truth is a half-lie."

This is just too brilliant for me to mess with. Go on.

"The invasion of Iraq, however botched, had a past we falsify if we see it only as a story of Western skulduggery."

Right, there was some "good way" to do the "invasion of Iraq".

"It is a false tale, falsely told, that Israelis wantonly butcher children in Gaza."

Right "wantonly" is unfair. Buh-bye now.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 01:25 (six years ago) link

"wrong-side-of-history" < i love this phrase on the left. just keep repeating it over and over and you start to feel like everyone agrees w/ you, or if they don't, at least history will vindicate yr beliefs after yr death

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 01:36 (six years ago) link

i don't think that greenwald is beyond criticism but that article is pretty damned stupid.

also and fuck the guy who wrote this forever:

A Paris jihadist spoke of turning to terror after seeing Americans torturing Iraqi prisoners on television. It is not to defend such barbarities to say they were but one side of a savage conflict. They too had a past. They did not express the immutable will or character of the American people. A half-truth is a half-lie. The invasion of Iraq, however botched, had a past we falsify if we see it only as a story of Western skulduggery.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 19 January 2015 01:43 (six years ago) link

yeah god forbid we have any nuance in politics, it might obscure our agenda

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 01:43 (six years ago) link

"vidicate yr beliefs after yr death"???? Mordy, believe it or not I don't have any ill will for you....nah, that's too steep of a belief curve to try to pitch.

So. You are a couple of years past the wrong side of history, at least, with this thread title and continued provocations. Wrong side of history chosen not by the "left", much less by me personally, but by establishment media figures: Pulitzer Prize, great reviews for the book, Oscar nomination for the movie related to the work, you get the picture. Warm relations with Steven Colbert, Rachel Maddow, Bill Moyers, Ta-Nehesi Coates, too name a few. New York Times doing cute story about his dogs. You get the picture.

You wanted to portray Greenwald as a hateful fringe figure. You lost ages ago. If you are right about him, know that you are occupying a much more lonely place than you probably imagined. Go all Nietzsche on the mountaintop (or Moses on the mountaintop, or Julie Andrews on the mountaintop) if you need to, but don't try to act like you speak for some kind of average sensible position anymore.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 01:50 (six years ago) link

i think the world's had enough 'nuanced' takes on the most destructive and inexcusable act of u.s. foreign policy of the last 50 years, thx very much

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 19 January 2015 01:51 (six years ago) link

vic perry, believe it or not i have no idea who you are (maybe an old poster w/ a new dn) but you have yet to offer anything interesting enough to be worth responding to so if u forgive me i'll leave you to start your own glenn greenwald thread and stay off mine.

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 01:55 (six years ago) link

believe it or not I don't have any ill will for you....nah, that's too steep of a belief curve to try to pitch.

like what kind of nonsense is this? sub-morbius ilx poster has ill will for me? god get over yourself.

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 01:58 (six years ago) link

Nope, I don't believe it, since you attacked me by name just a couple of weeks ago. Presumably you have so many fights you can't actually remember to whom you are responding anymore?

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:06 (six years ago) link

oh wow i totally know who you are now the guy who said something stupid a couple of weeks ago

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:08 (six years ago) link

Yeah I'm that guy, the vaguely anti-somethingorother blur you flail at before losing consciousness.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:10 (six years ago) link

that was sarcasm bro.

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:11 (six years ago) link

It's okay, the internet remembers everything for you.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:14 (six years ago) link

Anyway, is this "your" thread? You have some kind of say over who posts here, and what they say?

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:17 (six years ago) link

"You are a couple of years past the wrong side of history, at least, with this thread title and continued provocations."

i was just trying to say if it bothers you so much you don't have to hang out here

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:18 (six years ago) link

woah, i just noticed -- "continued provocations" who knows what to do w/ that. are you glenn greenwald?

Mordy, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:19 (six years ago) link

You don't have any arguments, do you. Just ad hominem, not particularly clever ad hominem.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 02:38 (six years ago) link

it's that time where I quote myself for levity

never got around to posting about this:
my friend who has visited brazil a couple times in the last year said that there's a local news roundtable show that greenwald appears on, but he caters his commentary and a lot of it is him strongly implying the united states is very interested in brazil's going-ons and is probably heavily spying on them

― mh, Monday, August 4, 2014 8:58 AM (5 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dude works it for his perceived audience

valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 19 January 2015 02:42 (six years ago) link

Brazil is the world's 5th largest country in size and population. I think I'm missing the joke.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 03:05 (six years ago) link

I love the way Mordy keeps doubling down on the stupid long after his little gee-ha-ha-had on Greenwald has utterly gone wrong-side-of-history.

plenty of people find GG to be a shitty journalist, an asshole, and a self-promoting sack'o'shit but yeah, let's let history judge

ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Monday, 19 January 2015 03:09 (six years ago) link

Oh no, the dreaded "plenty of people". They should probably pool their resources. Or maybe they should pee in a pool.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 03:14 (six years ago) link

he'd prob say the same if he lived in Tuvalu xxp

valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 19 January 2015 03:16 (six years ago) link

Undoubtedly I'm a troll for pointing out that you have to go speculative with that claim.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 03:18 (six years ago) link

xp instead of "plenty of people" I should have said "me and my buddies"

ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Monday, 19 January 2015 03:18 (six years ago) link

Fair enough.

Vic Perry, Monday, 19 January 2015 03:23 (six years ago) link

mordy, there's plenty to criticize about GG, but that thinkpiece you posted is really dumb. stop posting dumb thinkpieces. :(

I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 19 January 2015 03:59 (six years ago) link

as if there are smart thinkpieces

ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Monday, 19 January 2015 04:04 (six years ago) link

i'll leave you to start your own glenn greenwald thread and stay off mine.

Mordy occupying the thread

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 January 2015 05:49 (six years ago) link

he'd prob say the same if he lived in Tuvalu xxp

― valleys of your mind (mh), Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:16 PM (Yesterday)

i'd be more surprised if the US govt weren't spying on brazil than if they were

k3vin k., Monday, 19 January 2015 16:03 (six years ago) link

as if there are smart thinkpieces

― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:04 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

once upon a blue moon...

I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 19 January 2015 19:05 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

http://gawker.com/reporter-fabricated-quotes-invented-sources-at-the-int-1756672849

there's not an intercept thread, figured this was the best place. yikes

k3vin k., Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:02 (five years ago) link

It's the editor's fault p.s. i have cancer.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:04 (five years ago) link

yikes, apparently the journalist sent out emails impersonating his own boss?

wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:10 (five years ago) link

weirdly, this scenario kind of resonated with me as a teacher. sometimes students will get themselves in a heap of trouble and then blame some unspecified medical condition or family emergency for it, long after the fact.

wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:10 (five years ago) link

Why is this in a thread about Glenn Greenwald?

Pentenema Karten, Wednesday, 3 February 2016 23:02 (five years ago) link

there's not an intercept thread, figured this was the best place. yikes

― k3vin k., Wednesday, February 3, 2016 4:02 PM (2 hours ago)

i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 3 February 2016 23:07 (five years ago) link

wow lol

k3vin k., Saturday, 6 February 2016 02:54 (five years ago) link

not sure if the author knew I was doing an interpolation of the famous Karl Rove (?) quote

Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Saturday, 6 February 2016 02:58 (five years ago) link

you, always with the arch theorizing.

we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 6 February 2016 03:01 (five years ago) link

DISEMBODIED EXHIBITIONISM (President Keyes)

mookieproof, Saturday, 6 February 2016 04:03 (five years ago) link

memoir title suggestion

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 February 2016 12:24 (five years ago) link

one month passes...

I don't regularly read him or The Intercept and hadn't even realized he was based in Brazil. I thought this was a pretty good and fair-minded piece:

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/24/glenn_greenwald_brazils_democracy_is_under

human life won't become a cat (man alive), Thursday, 24 March 2016 20:14 (five years ago) link

Yep. The article is linked in that Democracy Now story

curmudgeon, Friday, 25 March 2016 14:12 (five years ago) link

yes, i heard that on the radio yesterday.

G.G. is very smart and i like what he has to say, but i have to admit i can barely stand his iteration of the valley-girl whine/vocal fry. he sounds like cher horowitz with a lisp. :(

wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, 25 March 2016 16:45 (five years ago) link

nine months pass...

this guy is pretty much a trump partisan at this point

Treeship, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:30 (four years ago) link

Trump's a fascist. Trump is Hitler. Trump is setting up camps. "Nothing is more disgusting" than people who throw things in protest.Glenn Greenwald added,
Claire McCaskill @clairecmc
Nothing is more unAmerican than protesters who are not peaceful. Disgusting.
RETWEETS
235
LIKES
618
jennifer dillonPeter WeinmannBad News BradDrew EllsworthMirelaJonathan HaskinFlaxeLaxenMark SheridanJoshua Keep
11:41 AM - 20 Jan 2017
50 replies 235 retweets 618 likes
Reply 50 Retweet 235
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Matt Bond ‏@Bonderman92 42m42 minutes ago
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@ggreenwald what camps?
3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 40m40 minutes ago
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@Bonderman92 I'm summarizing the Democrats' messaging, not adopting it myself.
6 replies 1 retweet 22 likes

Treeship, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:31 (four years ago) link

that was unreadable, but basically his imperial know-it-all-itness is getting fucking tiring. no critique of trump is complete without a stab at the democrats. all concerns about an openly nationalist candidate promising a radical break with tradition must be countered with an accusation of "hypocrisy" and "hysteria." he just sucks. this act is tired.

Treeship, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:33 (four years ago) link

i'm not his biggest fan in the world but that's not true

goole, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:34 (four years ago) link

he's criticizing democrats for being alarmist in rhetoric *while also* being timid in action.

you say trump is the beginning of a fascist wave sweeping the country? then don't chide scuffles in the streets as "unamerican"

goole, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:36 (four years ago) link

sorry treesh, yer bananas

Glenn Greenwald Retweeted
Zaid Jilani ‏@ZaidJilani 2h2 hours ago

Donald Trump preaches angry nationalism, while practicing Goldman Sachs capitalism https://interc.pt/2jxKryX by yours truly

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 January 2017 20:37 (four years ago) link

the Dem leaders' incompetence and inability to critique Trump's gold-plated elitism gave us this day, i'm fine w/ saying fuck them every 5 minutes

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 January 2017 20:41 (four years ago) link

lol i think he just deleted a tweet. it said something like "C.I.A. didn't forget to give Trump a gift for his inauguration day," and linked to this NYT story: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html

i guess he realized pretty quickly that protecting the sanctity of Trump's inauguration day probably didn't fit the brand

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:44 (four years ago) link

oh nm it's still up:
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/822439520780029952

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:45 (four years ago) link

more worried about Yehuda Glick and Netanyahu than Russia

xo

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 January 2017 20:48 (four years ago) link

so scary the US moving the embassy to west jerusalem

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:50 (four years ago) link

Greenwald's smug tone is totally wrong for this moment. He just shruggingly says "the corrupt deep state is at war with the new fascist president, just like them huh" *rolls eyes* as if that is 1.) normal and 2.) the most plausible answer to the multiple links between Trump and the Kremlin. It's as if those things couldn't possible be connected to Trump's Putinesque desire for a fractured Europe and an end to NATO.

Like, maybe too much is being made of coincidences -- maybe the CIA is framing Trump or something -- but wouldn't that also be a fucking weird thing to be happening?

Treeship, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:52 (four years ago) link

it is interesting that the settler colonial state is a scarier prospect to world peace than the country killing more ppl in syria than the entire history of the israeli/arab conflict and who most recently annexed a chunk of another actually existing country

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:52 (four years ago) link

I feel like part of what motivated Greenwald is protecting the Wikileaks brand

Treeship, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:54 (four years ago) link

so scary the US moving the embassy to west jerusalem

you bet it is, genius, plus a Likud maniac blessing DT in D.C. yesterday as "king of the United States"

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 January 2017 20:57 (four years ago) link

*moves bookmark*

k3vin k., Friday, 20 January 2017 20:58 (four years ago) link

yes why is it so scary exactly? why shouldn't the capital be in west jerusalem? bc not even west jerusalem should be a part of israel?

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:58 (four years ago) link

shouldn't it be in*

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 20:59 (four years ago) link

Greenwald spent most of the last month of the race between Clinton and Trump disseminating Russian hacks attacking Clinton. He's been extremely defensive ever since.

Frederik B, Friday, 20 January 2017 21:01 (four years ago) link

Glick told The Intercept that many in Israel didn’t feel like Obama was willing to consider their point of view. “Can you imagine the president of France saying, ‘Listen I don’t think it’s a good idea that Washington should be your capital. Maybe Orlando!'”

(The residents of Washington, D.C. may be without full voting rights but they are not militarily occupied or denied citizenship like the Palestinians in East Jerusalem.)

“Jerusalem is the capital of Israel whether you like it or you don’t,” he concluded.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/19/israeli-lawmakers-celebrate-the-new-king-of-the-united-states-with-evangelicals/

http://www.btselem.org/topic/jerusalem

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 January 2017 21:04 (four years ago) link

you didn't answer my question - the status of east jerusalem is a non-sequitar to the question of why the embassy shouldn't be in west jerusalem

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 21:06 (four years ago) link

maybe give it a think - it might give you some insight into a conflict you've until now only followed through twitter one liners.

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 21:07 (four years ago) link

*bookmarks thread*

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 January 2017 21:09 (four years ago) link

guess what idgaf about

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 January 2017 21:13 (four years ago) link

Judd Apatow!

Οὖτις, Friday, 20 January 2017 21:15 (four years ago) link

guess what idgaf about

The respect of others? Whether anybody reads your idiotic one-note posts? Having any measurable impact on the world at all?

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 20 January 2017 21:39 (four years ago) link

I was just gonna go with "anything"

(The caption: “fine dining.”) (DJP), Friday, 20 January 2017 21:41 (four years ago) link

great discussion guys

k3vin k., Friday, 20 January 2017 21:41 (four years ago) link

somehow worse than treeship's pantswetting revive

k3vin k., Friday, 20 January 2017 21:41 (four years ago) link

at least treeship didn't suggest the cia try to get rid of greenwald

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 20 January 2017 21:44 (four years ago) link

who did

Mordy, Friday, 20 January 2017 21:45 (four years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Pinned Tweet
Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald Feb 12
"Russian agent" - noun - "One who criticizes Democratic Party leaders." Syn: "Useful idiot, Putin loyalist, Kremlin spy."
59 replies 439 retweets 1,054 likes

guesses on how much longer this stays the pinned tweet?

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 05:04 (four years ago) link

guess what idgaf about

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 14:07 (four years ago) link

Morbs?

Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 16:41 (four years ago) link

ah it's the Think Tank Triumvirate!

(j/k Tom is much smarter than you other two vertebrates)

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 16:47 (four years ago) link

I'm sure he flattered

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 16:58 (four years ago) link

he's*

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 16:58 (four years ago) link

I admit I had to wiki it in my confusion, but... aren't we all vertebrates?

Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:16 (four years ago) link

ILX annual checkups on March 1

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:30 (four years ago) link

He meant invertebrates, Fred.

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:34 (four years ago) link

i didn't actually, telepath, i was giving you the BotD

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:36 (four years ago) link

At least Fred admits when he doesn't know what a word means.

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:37 (four years ago) link

I don't know what BotD means. I'm assuming the D stands for Dick, and not entirely comfortable with where this discussion is going.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:41 (four years ago) link

he was calling you lower forms of life by referring to you by subphylum rather than species

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:42 (four years ago) link

reminder that this all started when fred decided to take an unprovoked potshot at morbs

k3vin k., Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:44 (four years ago) link

xp is that a real thing? i've heard of ppl using invertebrate as an insult or even reprobate. i've never heard someone use vertebrate as an insult. occum's razor suggests that the brilliant film critic just a characteristically dumb mistake rather than he was using language in a novel and difficult to parse way. it's a bit sleep is where i'm a viking.

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:46 (four years ago) link

Mordy and Fred, together at last.

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:49 (four years ago) link

reminder that this all started when fred decided to take an unprovoked potshot at morbs

― k3vin k., 14. februar 2017 18:44 (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I assumed that was what El Tomboto was doing as well?

Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:53 (four years ago) link

is any potshot at morbs unprovoked at this point?

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:54 (four years ago) link

youre such a little prisonpunk, Mord

benefit of the Drumpf, FB

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:56 (four years ago) link

he was calling you lower forms of life by referring to you by subphylum rather than species

― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), 14. februar 2017 18:42 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But... isn't subphylum a higher rank than species?

Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:58 (four years ago) link

yes, that insult definitely makes sense. i'm easily bullied by ppl into working for them. you have quite a way with words. i understand why you decided to make a career out of it. xp

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 17:59 (four years ago) link

To be fair, the fact that Morbs seems not to have developed his insult-capacities that well speaks well of his reviewing skills. The whole name-calling thing is such hackery.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:04 (four years ago) link

i quit film criticism 3 years ago btw, for the good of all

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:42 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

this fucking guy
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/846334735169261569

Mordy, Monday, 27 March 2017 13:18 (four years ago) link

what do your studies show, dingaling?

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 March 2017 14:05 (four years ago) link

wonder if you can figure out why this framing is lying w/ statistics

Mordy, Monday, 27 March 2017 14:08 (four years ago) link

that's nice

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 March 2017 14:10 (four years ago) link

Morbs is kinda the scott adams of ilxor, here to explain why your inability to grok stats makes your assclowneyness predictable and boorring.

wishy washy hippy variety hour (Hunt3r), Monday, 27 March 2017 14:15 (four years ago) link

blow me

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 March 2017 14:16 (four years ago) link

Monday's off to a good start!

Not the real Tombot (El Tomboto), Monday, 27 March 2017 14:20 (four years ago) link

Philipp Rudiger‏ @PhilippJFR 3h3 hours ago

@ggreenwald @MattBruenig This is asinine, "The majority of candidate Xs votes came from 66% of the electorate" is not a headline.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:09 (four years ago) link

I'm going to copy what I said about this article on Facebook over here:

Let's look at this a little closer:

Here are the percentages of Trump's support in the overall poll broken down by demographic:

White men: 21%
White women: 19%
Black men: 1.6%
Black women: 0.2%
Latino men: 1.6%
Latino women 1.9%

The story here is not "more women and people of color supported Donald Trump in this poll". The story is "Donald Trump's support is overwhelmingly made up of white people". This article is an attempt to make white men who don't like Trump feel better about their demographic.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:11 (four years ago) link

Or, to put it another way for those who really want this to be the fault of non-white people: if you remove non-white people from the poll, Trump wins handily. We are not the reason Trump won. Handle your shit.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:15 (four years ago) link

seems to me "women" is the relevant point here, those who got missed in the attempt to Make History

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:17 (four years ago) link

I'm not sure how you missed the 8 million "election results show that racism trumps sexism with white women, something that practically every person of color in this country could have told you while rolling their eyes at your naivety" thinkpieces from November and December but we've already talked all of this to death.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:25 (four years ago) link

I didn't miss those.

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:26 (four years ago) link

so to summarize, Mordy playin' Gotcha with Greenwald, v boring, back to I Love Baseball

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:27 (four years ago) link

I don't hate Greenwald or Bruenig like some folks here, but it's aggressively stupid to combine "women and POC" in this. Yes, white women voted for Trump - we knew that from the day after the election and have always known that women's voting patterns follow the same patterns as men when it comes to race (the difference in how 'women' vote usually comes down to black women making up a large percentage of that voting demographic).

IIRC, the only group that Trump won outright was white evangelicals (male and female)... who happen to make up a quarter of the electorate and vote Republican as much as black Americans vote Democratic.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 27 March 2017 15:35 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

i'm a bit late to this convo, but that's bookmarks for you

i'm not exactly going to defend bruenig, because i don't trust his politics and he gets on my nerves, but this is an obvious troll. i think he deletes tweets regularly, but he said as much in convos about this piece. he likes to see liberals spin their wheels.

his argument is that the "women and people of color" framing is racist. because the categories aren't really the same. women and people of color added together make up, what, 75% of the country? so yes, donald trump's voting coalition is going to be "majority women and people of color." so using that frame doesn't tell you much, in the end.

it was also, i gather, written against a strong strain of contempt from elite democrats for poor people who voted for trump, more or less actively wishing for their deaths so we could have better politics again.

i mean, someone chimed into a related convo (btw greenwald and talib kweli) with this gem:

https://twitter.com/Hottyrotty/status/847255201568313344

If a Trump voter gets harassed and/or killed b/c he is black than fuck him. He had it coming

yeah sure it's just some rando asshole but it's an extremely common attitude. it's common on ilx!

goole, Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:41 (four years ago) link

yes a comment sentiment on ilx

Mordy, Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:44 (four years ago) link

common*

Mordy, Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:44 (four years ago) link

i still don't get what bruenig's argument is -- that talking about women and POC as a monolithic group is racist and that's why he did it? idgi.

Mordy, Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:45 (four years ago) link

his point is the point he always has: that liberals are suckers with bad ideas

goole, Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:45 (four years ago) link

i guess when you have a dumb point you tend to make dumb arguments to support it

Mordy, Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:49 (four years ago) link

saying a black trump voter had his violent death coming to him is a common sentiment on ilx??

k3vin k., Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:54 (four years ago) link

i'm wary of breunig for exactly the same reasons goole is but i still like him. i don't trust that he's always *right* about things and he more or less exists (on twitter at least -- i know he's done some good irl research) to be a troll, but he trolls the right people and he's pretty funny

k3vin k., Thursday, 13 April 2017 17:56 (four years ago) link

let the record show that goole also believes April and May are indistinguishable

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Thursday, 13 April 2017 18:10 (four years ago) link

saying a black trump voter had his violent death coming to him is a common sentiment on ilx??

There aren't enough black people on ILX for that sentiment to be common.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 13 April 2017 18:17 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

bump

Mordy, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 03:59 (four years ago) link

i bet you think he's the editor of the Intercept, fucko

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 05:11 (four years ago) link

what could've ever given me that idea

http://imgur.com/pHZfEMm.jpg

Mordy, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 05:49 (four years ago) link

yeah well you're a stupidhead

j., Tuesday, 6 June 2017 06:07 (four years ago) link

seems like an honorific

he just recently insidted he is not the hands-on editor

and i know you read his every tweet, puss

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:36 (four years ago) link

plus it appears Greenwald is skeptical of the veracity of the document at the center of the story.

Journalism requires that document be published and reported. Rationality requires it be read skeptically.

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) June 5, 2017

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:43 (four years ago) link

if he was involved in the story's publication i think he'd be one of the writers (4 of em) on the byline.

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:45 (four years ago) link

Statement of Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill: pic.twitter.com/HJACKjKjtz

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) June 13, 2017

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 June 2017 19:45 (four years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Whatever, Glenn. The Intercept is still at fault for not covering Reality Winner's tracks well enough that she's in jail right now.

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 8 July 2017 15:46 (four years ago) link

His ability to still burn through 1000 words on something only he cares about and publish the whole thing is truly phenomenal

It's a shame "the left" can't do better than this guy and Freddie DeBoer, if the stuff they claim to care about is really so important - are all editors liberal? Is that the thing?

El Tomboto, Saturday, 8 July 2017 15:52 (four years ago) link

Maddow said her report should serve as a “heads up” to other news organizations that someone is attempting to destroy the credibility of those who report on Trump’s connections to Russia by purposely giving them false information. She suggested, without stating, that this may have been what caused CNN and other outlets recently to publish reports about Trump and/or Russia that ended up being retracted.

lol so weak.

yeah greenwald sells to his audience maddow sells to hers that is their jobs how any of is this phenomenal

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 8 July 2017 15:57 (four years ago) link

Is the implication she is roosting, or that she is concern trolling? I'm not even clear what his beef is, I should read it, but srsly fuck that it's gg.

popcorn michael awaits trumptweet (Hunt3r), Saturday, 8 July 2017 16:06 (four years ago) link

From what I could stand to skim, he feels that The Intercept's source for the NSA document has now been revealed as a phony weasel, meaning he fell for some phony bullshit, so he's going ham to suggest that it is unreasonable to suggest that he would ever get played.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 8 July 2017 16:15 (four years ago) link

I don't think Greenwald was involved in the NSA story.

This one seems to be a relatively straightforward dispute over whether someone who appears to have created a fake NSA document and sent it to Maddow using the Intercept doc as a template did it before or after the Intercept published. If it was after, it could have been anyone, if it was before, the theory goes, it would have to be someone with access - or the result of Intercept getting hacked. It's not necessarily worth 1000 words of anyone's time.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 8 July 2017 16:26 (four years ago) link

no one actually believes he had no involvement in the NSA story right? like there's no way this guy of all guys had no involvement in a major leak from the NSA published in his zine.

Mordy, Saturday, 8 July 2017 16:44 (four years ago) link

There's this grave air of importance in the writing of that piece, as if it's a really explosive political story. But the whole point is just defending The Intercept themselves from accusations of wrongdoing. And yeah, they seem to be right. But that piece, in that tone, is really only something you write if your head has gotten so far up your own ass that you begin to believe other people see you as the most important person in the world as well.

Frederik B, Saturday, 8 July 2017 16:56 (four years ago) link

Also, if it was before, the source could be the same for both.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 8 July 2017 18:16 (four years ago) link

Gym Teacher Maddow has done a whole fuck of a lot more harm than you Centrists believe GG has

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 9 July 2017 01:22 (four years ago) link

Brought to you by "Telling Pejoritives" revealing yesterday's persistent childhood traumas...today.

popcorn michael awaits trumptweet (Hunt3r), Sunday, 9 July 2017 01:29 (four years ago) link

Of course, nobody here has argued that the spat between Maddow and Greenwald should be determined by who has done more damage, and that the answer in that case would be Greenwald. But I do think it's important for all of us to recognize that gym teachers are the fucking worst.

Frederik B, Sunday, 9 July 2017 01:57 (four years ago) link

no u are

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 9 July 2017 02:12 (four years ago) link

Since when does my fellow American take a dive in this matchup

El Tomboto, Sunday, 9 July 2017 02:23 (four years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Is Lee Fang having a breakdown or something?

Frederik B, Saturday, 5 August 2017 15:35 (four years ago) link

link

El Tomboto, Saturday, 5 August 2017 15:36 (four years ago) link

Check his Twitter. He took a tweet from a thread complaining about Bernie Sanders' position on race and said liberals are just like Richard Spencer's. Then said that people who want more minorities in leadership positions are like British and Japanese colonizers. Because voting for Kamala Harris would be like the rape of Nanking all over again, I suppose.

Frederik B, Saturday, 5 August 2017 15:41 (four years ago) link

well that was ten minutes completely wasted

I assume he threw his phone in a body of water 16 hours ago

El Tomboto, Saturday, 5 August 2017 16:02 (four years ago) link

Yeah, probably. Or perhaps Glenn got to him. Or Killary!

Frederik B, Saturday, 5 August 2017 16:18 (four years ago) link

Many of the most famous recent police shootings were by minority officers, most abuse-ridden border patrol units had Latino leadership

— Lee Fang (@lhfang) August 4, 2017

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Sunday, 6 August 2017 01:48 (four years ago) link

Well, Glenn is also kinda going full on trumpkin.

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/

(this is not a hard question he is posing)

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 01:51 (four years ago) link

I mean, this is just a rephrasing of "hire more women guards" really

Lockheed Martin has an award winning diversity program, a woman as CEO, hasn't changed their behavior helping to bomb women in Yemen

— Lee Fang (@lhfang) August 4, 2017

I certainly get arguing that corrupt systems can't be reformed simply through more diverse hiring strategies, but his tweets could use a bit of uh finesse. I did not see the more obviously batshit sounding ones mentioned upthread.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 01:56 (four years ago) link

Liberals disagree w/Richard Spencer's policy outlook but share his core belief that race alone determines your value in society pic.twitter.com/kTyh7DDQDj

— Lee Fang (@lhfang) August 4, 2017

Worth noting the guy he is comparing to Richard Spencer is Jewish...

tired: politicians should have the experience & policies to do the most to help people of color
wired: measure politicians' skull shapes

— Lee Fang (@lhfang) August 4, 2017

Japanese and British empires pacified their colonies with puppet leaders plucked from local ethnic groups. It's a successful strategy.

— Lee Fang (@lhfang) August 4, 2017

Really, the Japanese empire was pacified through mass murder and rape, but, you know. Phrenology!

I'm beginning to think these guys are just stupid? They're just old-school know-nothings, who has no knowledge about history, social movements, and stick together their worldview through cherry picking details. How bad must you're memory be to write something like this: 'Whatever else there is to say about Trump, it is simply a fact that the 2016 election saw elite circles in the U.S., with very few exceptions, lining up with remarkable fervor behind his Democratic opponent.'

I kinda find the Greenwald article fascinating, in the way he seems to think Trump and generals are opposed. Like, Trump is openly an authoritarian, he adores the military, police, everyone who can kill people, except if he thinks they are against him.

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:13 (four years ago) link

As the Atlantic’s Rosie Gray reports, McMaster has successfully fired several national security officials aligned with Steve Bannon and the nationalistic, purportedly non-interventionist foreign policy and anti-Muslim worldview Trump advocated throughout the election. As Gray notes, this has provoked anger among Trump supporters who view the assertion of power by these Generals as an undemocratic attack against the policies for which the electorate voted.

[...]

The combination of the “Goldman Boys” and the Generals has taken over, Wilson crows, and is destroying the Bannon-led agenda on which Trump campaigned.

[...]

Whatever else is true, there is now simply no question that there is open warfare between adherents to the worldview Trump advocated in order to win, and the permanent national security power faction in Washington that – sometimes for good, and sometimes for evil – despises that agenda.

[...]

the military triumvirate of Kelly, Mattis and McMaster has been cast as the noble defenders of American democracy, pitted against those who were actually elected to lead the government.

[...]

In terms of some of the popular terms that are often thrown around these days – such as “authoritarianism” and “democratic norms” and “U.S. traditions” – it’s hard to imagine many things that would pose a greater threat to all of that than empowering the National Security State (what, before Trump, has long been called the Deep State) to exert precisely the power that is supposed to be reserved exclusively for elected officials.

Like, I'm picking sentences out of a long article, but this is kinda chilling. I mean, it's all just different officials Trump has chosen, for one reason or another, but Greenwald is quite openly declaring that anything other than putting Bannonites and the Bannonite ideology in charge would be a subversion of the American democracy.

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:24 (four years ago) link

Yeah, military types slowly taking over the administration is worrisome and some of the press around it has been very dumb, but GG's angle/tone on it is super weird.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:35 (four years ago) link

Of course he is. That's his job; it's what he is paid to do.

The Intercept is a medium for right-wing psyops: to split the left and encourage true progressive voters to stay home, or waste their ballots on vanity candidates and write-ins. That is the sum of it.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:37 (four years ago) link

:/

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:38 (four years ago) link

I'm pretty sure it's just an outfit for leftists who sometimes write and express themselves poorly.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:39 (four years ago) link

El Tomboto, you're sounding worryingly like Lee Fang right now... ;)

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:40 (four years ago) link

But this is so weird that it's not enough for me to say that it's 'just' expressed poorly. There's clearly something pretty fucked up going on here. The support for Bannon, the constant conspiratorial thinking. I mean, partly it's obviously because they're idiots, but it's a very peculiar form of idiocy.

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:45 (four years ago) link

I think about what I would do in my adversary's shoes and much of what The Intercept does fits a model. Coming off strong, right to the precipice of unhinged, is what a Tombot does.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:52 (four years ago) link

Again: :/

I think GG's (who tbh I do have a lot of respect for from his work on the expansion of the surveillance state) particular strain of deeply contrarian lib-bashing has broken something in his brain. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:54 (four years ago) link

Why is The Intercept alive and well when Gawker is not? Why is Wikileaks still a thing when its Dear Leader has been in a basement for years? 🤔

El Tomboto, Sunday, 6 August 2017 02:56 (four years ago) link

Um, there are plenty of strong leftist outlets that I see get shared around more than The Intercept and no one is suing them out of existence. Again, the simplest explanation is "GG is a bad writer now." It happens.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 03:01 (four years ago) link

Greenwald's role in the exposure of FVEY SIGINT overreach is grossly exaggerated. He never had anything to lose, he lives in Brazil. The whistleblowers he rode the coattails of have/had serious charges against them.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 6 August 2017 03:01 (four years ago) link

I don't care how much danger he was or wasn't in or how involved he was. I'm saying the writing/reporting, as written, was solid (and tonally appropriate for what was being divulged), as opposed to his current work.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 03:06 (four years ago) link

He seems to get a pass for a lot of stuff in some quarters (like having supported the Iraq war) because he goes after libs. Greenwald went on Laura Ingraham's show to complain about the democrats "crazy Russia conspiracy" and had Tucker Carlson on the Intercept podcast to do the same. His weighted focus on condemning those conspiracies comes across like running interference for Trump, especially since he hypocritically ignored the Seth Rich stories that Wikileaks pushed.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Sunday, 6 August 2017 03:25 (four years ago) link

If every hypocrite was part of a shadowy psyop...

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 03:28 (four years ago) link

I agree that lefties have a tendency to ignore GG's trespasses (I say this as a commie who's always down for a well-contructed lib takedown).

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 03:32 (four years ago) link

ftr I do probably also lean toward "broken brain" as the explanation

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Sunday, 6 August 2017 03:43 (four years ago) link

Lots of busted windbag bloggers out there with no bankroll

El Tomboto, Sunday, 6 August 2017 05:10 (four years ago) link

I fully agree with the 'broken brain' explanation, though as he supported the Iraq War, I doubt there was that much brain to break to begin with. But I still think it's important to figure out how it is his brain has broken. I mean, he mentions neither the Rothschilds nor the Soros, but erase the stuff on the arms (as Cernovich did), and the whole conspiracy idea is a stones throw away from this:

https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/2017-08/McMasterLeaksOriginalImage.jpg

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 08:58 (four years ago) link

To recap, Lee Fang is racist, Glenn Greenwald is an anti-Semite.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:01 (four years ago) link

The Intercept as a right-wing fifth column sounds like the liberal version of how every lefty org has a guy yelling COINTELPRO about every new person or critical take on the party/group.

louie mensch (milo z), Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:05 (four years ago) link

tbf, most left orgs aren't bankrolled by libertarian billionaires. It's interesting to ask why Omidyar puts the money up but idk how much editorial input he has.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:08 (four years ago) link

Twitter is a cesspool and all of Fang's tweets are just horribly worded versions of "the problem is systemic" and he's right that you can't just write off abuse and violence in law enforcement and border security as "racist white cops" - the abuses run deeper and confronting those causes goes well beyond diversity in policing. You can say he's arguing with a liberal strawman there but it's not racism on his part.

He's also less wrong than Fred re: the Japanese. The conquest of Burma was not exactly Manchuria Pt. 2 and the Japanese effectively used anti-colonial sentiment and leadership against the British up until the tides of the war turned and the Japanese used up what goodwill they had started out with among the anti-colonial population. It's not exactly what Fang tried to fit into a Tweet but it's less wrong than just waving your hand and saying the Japanese just used "mass murder and rape."

louie mensch (milo z), Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:24 (four years ago) link

To recap, Lee Fang is racist, Glenn Greenwald is an anti-Semite.

― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), 6. august 2017 11:01 (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Honestly, that seems as good an explanation of any... It fits quite well with Greenwald's support for Bannonite 'nationalism' against a shadowy conspiracy of 'wall street boys'.

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:24 (four years ago) link

milo, you do know the Japanese invaded other places than Burma, right?

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:25 (four years ago) link

As a guiding principle, intemperate arguments between American POC activists on Twitter about the politics of race and representation probably don't need white guys thousands of miles away weighing in with speculation on who has mental health issues and who The Real Racist is.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:31 (four years ago) link

Is Glenn Greenwald a POC?

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:31 (four years ago) link

Or did your spellcheck change POS?

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 09:33 (four years ago) link

Perpetually Obtuse Scandinavian

soref, Sunday, 6 August 2017 12:31 (four years ago) link

The Intercept is a left leaning website that is highly critical of the American national security state. They don't want to give up this critical posture in the name of solidarity with hawkish Trump opponents. They fear hysteria about Trump is being used as a pretext to foment conflict with Russia and strengthen the neoconservative, Pan-American worldview. Agree or disagree with these sentiments, they're all completely logical and have nothing to do with a Russian plot.

Treeship, Sunday, 6 August 2017 12:50 (four years ago) link

It also has nothing to do with being "pro-Trump." If they think Bannonite paleocon isolationism would be preferable to liberal interventionism it's not out of love for the former but out of a desire to see state violence curbed.

I'm not even sympathetic to the Intercept and I think they suck for all kinds of reasons but I can't abide seeing Louise Mensch style bullshit on ilx.

Treeship, Sunday, 6 August 2017 12:53 (four years ago) link

Nobody but you has used the term "pro-Trump" in this thread...

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 12:58 (four years ago) link

Greenwald is quite openly declaring that anything other than putting Bannonites and the Bannonite ideology in charge would be a subversion of the American democracy.

- Fred B

Treeship, Sunday, 6 August 2017 13:00 (four years ago) link

Well, Glenn is also kinda going full on trumpkin.

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/

(this is not a hard question he is posing)

― Frederik B, Saturday, August 5, 2017 9:51 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Treeship, Sunday, 6 August 2017 13:00 (four years ago) link

Yeah, I'm just laughing at your use of quotes.

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 13:04 (four years ago) link

But the first example is quite factual. I mean, that's what the article is about, read it again if you have to.

With the other example, I don't think it's a good excuse that he is supporting the anti-Muslim and racist Bannonite agenda because he opposes this made up conspiracy he is worried about. I mean, even bigots always have their reasons, don't they?

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 13:05 (four years ago) link

I don't like Greenwald, but he does not support the anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant parts of Bannon's agenda. He thinks the tendency of that wing of the White House toward non-intervention would lead to better outcomes for, say, the civilians who get killed in US drone strikes.

Whatever else is true, there is now simply no question that there is open warfare between adherents to the worldview Trump advocated in order to win, and the permanent national security power faction in Washington that – sometimes for good, and sometimes for evil – despises that agenda.

Greenwald is objectionable for a ton of reasons. He does tend toward conspiratorial thinking, his worldview is Manichean, and there is a troubling strategic alliance between his people and the far right vis a vis the question of intervention. But collapsing the distinctions between these groups or impugning his motives -- implying that he thinks as he does bc he himself is "racist" -- just takes us further from reality.

Treeship, Sunday, 6 August 2017 13:36 (four years ago) link

Sorry, you used the word "bigot" not racist

Treeship, Sunday, 6 August 2017 13:37 (four years ago) link

can i killfile a thread?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 6 August 2017 13:38 (four years ago) link

I just said that even bigots claim other reasons for their bigotry. Y'know, they just really like states rights. But the ipso facto way you state that saying this white guy is racist would take us 'further from reality' is really quite fucking weird. Especially when I'm not doing so. And even with the obvious parallels to anti-semitism, if you asked I would say I don't think he believes in these conspiracies because he is an anti-semite. I just note that his conspiratorial thinking has moved to this dark and crazy place, which is worth taking note of.

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 August 2017 14:13 (four years ago) link

milo, you do know the Japanese invaded other places than Burma, right?

Fred, does Denmark lack the concept of "an example"?

louie mensch (milo z), Sunday, 6 August 2017 17:27 (four years ago) link

LOL

weird echo of the falsies (Tom D.), Sunday, 6 August 2017 17:30 (four years ago) link

simon H otm

greenwald has areas of expertise (mostly constitutional law) on which he is/was legitimately an authority and very readable. when he veers into punditry is when he loses the plot.

lee fang just seems like a troll

k3vin k., Sunday, 6 August 2017 17:37 (four years ago) link

How can a guy who has gone on fox news and interviewed tucker carlson say shit like this with a straight face?

Bill Kristol, David Frum & other blood-stained neocons know Trump Era has gifted them with renewed credibility thanks to embrace of Dems: https://t.co/CYJco7DswQ

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 10, 2017

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 14:31 (four years ago) link

I don't know. How can the opinions of Frederik B. who has posted on ilxor.com, a message board rife with racists and pedophiles, be trusted?

President Keyes, Thursday, 10 August 2017 14:37 (four years ago) link

how dare u i'm not a racist

for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 10 August 2017 14:38 (four years ago) link

I think the amount of shit GG can say with a straight face is limitless. He probably tried to tell a joke once.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 10 August 2017 15:13 (four years ago) link

And once again: It's extra ironic that he himself supported the Iraq War... It's like the one thing he can't forgive, and he himself did it. He's like a born-again who hates on all his old friends for not having seen the light yet. But being racist, oh well, shit happens.

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 15:18 (four years ago) link

Have you recanted any of your former positions, Fred? Maybe your love of so many horrible films?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 August 2017 15:36 (four years ago) link

No, I have a remarkable talent for getting things right immediately.

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:02 (four years ago) link

(also, the point isn't that he got the Iraq War wrong, the point is that he seems obsessed with the people who started the Iraq War, to the extent that he will overlook the crimes of everyone else if they say something negative about neo-conservatism. it seems more personal than anything at this point)

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:04 (four years ago) link

yeah he should take a page from Hillary's book and just pretend it never happened maybe take a photo op with a gold star family

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:15 (four years ago) link

I just find his casting aspersions on McMaster, the author of "Dereliction of Duty," as a neoliberal warmonger hilarious.

I used to be annoyed by how much attention he got from the LGM coalition but lately it's been funny. Chait ripped him a new one recently too.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:16 (four years ago) link

Greenwald started blogging in 2005. Do we know about his support of the 2003 invasion because of some Livejournal posts or something?

President Keyes, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:21 (four years ago) link

Chait needs to be fired into space with the rest of the War Democrats

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:21 (four years ago) link

Sure, but when you're so bent by your libertarian paymaster that you can get fried by the likes of Chait, you have officially passed into punchline territory

El Tomboto, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:25 (four years ago) link

the libertarian stuff on The Intercept must be behind some firewall

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:28 (four years ago) link

Greenwald started blogging in 2005. Do we know about his support of the 2003 invasion because of some Livejournal posts or something?

― President Keyes, 10. august 2017 18:21 (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's in his book 'How Would a Patriot Act'

I had not abandoned my trust in the Bush administration. Between the president's performance in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the swift removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the fact that I wanted the president to succeed, because my loyalty is to my country and he was the leader of my country, I still gave the administration the benefit of the doubt. I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:32 (four years ago) link

this is adorable, the wrongest ilxor shaming someone for reflecting on a time they were wrong and the factors that led to it

qualx, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:49 (four years ago) link

No, I have a remarkable talent for getting things right immediately.

― Frederik B, 10. august 2017 18:02 (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

(also, the point isn't that he got the Iraq War wrong, the point is that he seems obsessed with the people who started the Iraq War, to the extent that he will overlook the crimes of everyone else if they say something negative about neo-conservatism. it seems more personal than anything at this point)

― Frederik B, 10. august 2017 18:04 (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 16:55 (four years ago) link

oh I don't care

qualx, Thursday, 10 August 2017 17:06 (four years ago) link

lol

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 17:10 (four years ago) link

(also, the point isn't that he got the Iraq War wrong, the point is that he seems obsessed with the people who started the Iraq War, to the extent that he will overlook the crimes of everyone else if they say something negative about neo-conservatism. it seems more personal than anything at this point)

― Frederik B, Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:04 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hate it when people don't give the criminals who started the iraq war a fair shake

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 10 August 2017 18:38 (four years ago) link

That's not his point but U take it you don't actually care either

El Tomboto, Thursday, 10 August 2017 18:58 (four years ago) link

bush got half a million people killed for nothing. trump hasn't hit that mark, and until he does, i'm comfortable saying neoconservatism is worse

goole, Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:21 (four years ago) link

GG was not a public figure in 2003 and never wrote a single word advocating for the war. the paragraph fred was quoting (from a book i assume he hasn't read) is part of a mea culpa, the point of which is basically "i was a moron to assume that the president knew what he was doing." i've been disappointed by GG's work lately and haven't found him useful at all since the election but calling him an "iraq war supporter," full stop, is a distortion.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:27 (four years ago) link

I never liked the "but Trump doesn't have blood on his hands yet" argument when he campaigned on promises of war crimes, it was clear that he was capable of worse and especially now that he is cavalier about nuclear war during a potential crisis.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:32 (four years ago) link

I used to be annoyed by how much attention he got from the LGM coalition but lately it's been funny. Chait ripped him a new one recently too.

― El Tomboto, Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:16 PM (four hours ago)

well when you've lost chait...

k3vin k., Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:39 (four years ago) link

JD otm

k3vin k., Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:41 (four years ago) link

trump's only "success" so far is unleashing ICE. otherwise, though terrifying and humiliating, he's been a failure

goole, Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:50 (four years ago) link

x-post: Bullshit. My friend Kim from highschool supported the Iraq War as well, and even though he never did anything at all and was a stupid kid from a country that didn't matter, of course he was an "Iraq War Supporter."

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:55 (four years ago) link

The mental hoops you guys jump through sometimes...

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 20:56 (four years ago) link

idgaf about people's opinions when they were in high school. have you ever met a teenager? they're idiots.

i similarly don't really care *that* much about someone's beliefs before they became a public figure. when your opinions and decisions actually start to mean something (for example, you're a US senator), i care a little more about the thought you put into things and the conclusions you come to

k3vin k., Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:03 (four years ago) link

i knew plenty of ppl back in 2002 and 2003 who were sufficiently confused or awed by the amount of propaganda coming out of the administration (often helped by the press) that they didn't oppose the war. i don't judge them the same way i do politicians, pundits, or any other public figures who jumped on the bandwagon and loudly advocated for the invasion. (one of whom, btw, was the candidate frederik b stridently advocated for here during the primary season last year.)

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:06 (four years ago) link

I was completely snowed by the Bush admin throughout 2002-3 and have never forgiven them for it. I was basically an unwitting Colin Powell and I'm sure some evidence of that is all over ILE.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:20 (four years ago) link

yeah i read too much hitchens after 9/11 but i thought reading the nation and slate was where it was at

goole, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:21 (four years ago) link

Ah, the frantic sound at goalposts being moved by kev k and j d. I don't care how much you care about, or how you want to judge, GG's support for the Iraq War, but it's a fact that he did support it. I notice it because he seems a bit like El Tomboto, as someone whos anger at neo-cons has to do with the fact that they feel personally deceived.

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:32 (four years ago) link

I demonstrated against both the Iraq and Afghan wars, do I have extra cachet to tell you you're being an asshole

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:38 (four years ago) link

cosign

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:39 (four years ago) link

I supported Afghanistan, didn't support Iraq. Do I get a cookie?

this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:45 (four years ago) link

You're pulling Greenwald out of context, Frederik. I've been quoting here and elsewhere since 2006 and never saw him as anything but a non-politician overwhelmed by propaganda and, who knows, motivated by patriotism.

I never supported the war. Before we learned the extent of Karl Rove's cynicism and perfidy, I couldn't figure out what the goddamn rush was. If Saddam had nukes, why not let the UN weapons inspectors do their job? It stank from the beginning. However, I shut up after the occupation and for a time in 2003, buttressed by generous doses of Kenneth Pollack, Hitchens, and Paul Berman, thought as a liberal we should see what kind of lasting peace these cynical and perfidious men made -- a thought-experiment that showed my own cynicism. I gave up in 2004.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:46 (four years ago) link

most americans, in 2003, were not prepared to swallow the idea that their president and his entire administration -- who had been covered by much of the press in a less-than-critical light since 9/11 -- would straight-up lie to them about something so important.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:52 (four years ago) link

I don't take any credit for my opposition, I was a typical anti-authoritarian punk (9/11 was one of my first days of high school). That said, I wouldn't trust either the American (or Canadian) militaries' judgment, planning, or justifications for basically any armed action in the Middle East at this point so maybe not that much has changed lol

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 10 August 2017 22:21 (four years ago) link

i was in yeshiva at the time so i was pretty out of touch with everything that happened except for seeing newspaper headlines in vending machines on friday when we out went to put tefillin on ppl. but i remember feeling for weeks like war was inevitably coming - that it just seemed stacked that way and the GWB administration just seemed v full of shit like obviously trying to sell a war while pretending they didn't want one. lots of bellicose statements about how this is the last straw etc.

Mordy, Thursday, 10 August 2017 22:34 (four years ago) link

i was listening to a lot of chomsky lectures at the time and was probably against it on principle. the whole time after 9/11 was just exhausting tho - and being sequestered i felt especially helpless.

Mordy, Thursday, 10 August 2017 22:35 (four years ago) link

I think the patriotism aspect is really interesting, the way Greenwald explicitly evokes it in his book title as well. The Patriot Act is doubly wrong because it hurts patriotism, almost, as if patriotism isn't a corrosive idea to begin with. I mean, is it really that surprising that he is now writing about Bannon as somehow representing the vote of the people?

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 22:42 (four years ago) link

link?

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 10 August 2017 22:48 (four years ago) link

As the Atlantic’s Rosie Gray reports, McMaster has successfully fired several national security officials aligned with Steve Bannon and the nationalistic, purportedly non-interventionist foreign policy and anti-Muslim worldview Trump advocated throughout the election. As Gray notes, this has provoked anger among Trump supporters who view the assertion of power by these Generals as an undemocratic attack against the policies for which the electorate voted.

[...]

The combination of the “Goldman Boys” and the Generals has taken over, Wilson crows, and is destroying the Bannon-led agenda on which Trump campaigned.

[...]

Whatever else is true, there is now simply no question that there is open warfare between adherents to the worldview Trump advocated in order to win, and the permanent national security power faction in Washington that – sometimes for good, and sometimes for evil – despises that agenda.

[...]

the military triumvirate of Kelly, Mattis and McMaster has been cast as the noble defenders of American democracy, pitted against those who were actually elected to lead the government.

[...]

In terms of some of the popular terms that are often thrown around these days – such as “authoritarianism” and “democratic norms” and “U.S. traditions” – it’s hard to imagine many things that would pose a greater threat to all of that than empowering the National Security State (what, before Trump, has long been called the Deep State) to exert precisely the power that is supposed to be reserved exclusively for elected officials.

From upthread

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:09 (four years ago) link

the king of bad faith strikes again.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:23 (four years ago) link

bannon's fp is what trump ran on.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:24 (four years ago) link

Are you joking?

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:33 (four years ago) link

Trump bought into a lot more of Bannon's ideology than his fp, lol

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:33 (four years ago) link

Not that that has anything to do with what I'm getting at.

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:33 (four years ago) link

gg is either supporting the democracy principle even when it results in things he doesn't like, and/or he is more in favor of bannon's isolationist/nativist fp than the "deep state's" - both seem justifiable positions to me. what's insanely stupid is that he's talking about mcmaster and mattis as tho they're unelected officials undermining the potus's agenda but the potus appointed both of them and can fire both of them - they are a result of the democratic will, not some kind of anti-trump alliance.

Mordy, Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:35 (four years ago) link

he is more in favor of bannon's isolationist/nativist fp than the "deep state's"

This is my assumption (because your first solution is undermined by your explanation in the next few sentences), and I'm noting there might be some overlap between his frustrated patriotism and the isolationism/nativism.

Frederik B, Thursday, 10 August 2017 23:42 (four years ago) link

two months pass...

Bump

El Tomboto, Saturday, 28 October 2017 13:11 (three years ago) link

Expanding scope of thread to include general douchiness and asshattery at The Intercept:

https://www.theroot.com/hey-i-can-play-this-game-too-guys-1819822866

FOIA requests are a tactic used to expose vast corruption, dirty cops and human rights abuses, not to snoop after other journalists who say things you don’t like. I guess Fang was hoping to find some type of nefarious collusion between me and the Stacey Abrams campaign (which is ironic, since I thought The Intercept didn’t believe in collusion).

I’m surprised that Fang thinks I’d be dumb enough to communicate with any political source on my work email. That’s Journalism 101. He might need to retake that class; I’ll save him a seat when I teach it next fall.

I honored the FOIA request, but I didn’t have anything to give him because there was nothing to give.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 28 October 2017 13:14 (three years ago) link

lol @ Angry Loomis though

Recent great hires at The Intercept have forced me off of my position to never read anything sponsored by that site curated by racist Rand Paul-curious dishonest libertarian Russian stooge Glenn Greenwald.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 28 October 2017 13:17 (three years ago) link

I was wondering if you bumped this thread because of Loomis.

I read LGM every morning but Loomis' old-dude-discovers-Facebook prose style gets on my nerves at times.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 October 2017 13:25 (three years ago) link

I get aggravated at Loomis because he is so prolific and knowledgeable it makes me feel like a bum

El Tomboto, Saturday, 28 October 2017 13:48 (three years ago) link

I thought The Intercept didn’t believe in collusion

ooh "sick burn" I believe it's called

boring thread, boring Democrats, boring world

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 28 October 2017 14:10 (three years ago) link

"a bunch of frustrated Bernie Bro friends"

(psst, stopped reading here)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 28 October 2017 14:26 (three years ago) link

three months pass...

this sensationalist bullshit wasn't fact-checked with anybody who actually works in the field - but as soon as they got some scans on russian hackers targeting election systems, they immediately went to their IC buddies for corroboration.

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/voice-recognition-technology-nsa/

fuck the intercept, fuck omidyar, and fuck greenwald. the entire first look media enterprise is a unprincipled tabloid trash fire that makes the new york times editorial page and chris cillizza smell like fucking roses

El Tomboto, Sunday, 28 January 2018 00:54 (three years ago) link

do you mean the NYT op-ed page

k3vin k., Sunday, 28 January 2018 01:42 (three years ago) link

yeah, being serious, I'll take that part back - nyt editorials are implicated in hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths so, fine, first look media is superior

El Tomboto, Sunday, 28 January 2018 01:44 (three years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Dude shared an article from The Federalist today.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 22 February 2018 17:01 (three years ago) link

need more data

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 17:09 (three years ago) link

With an open mind, please read @MZHemingway on how the US media's mindless, shocking acceptance of every claim from "Hamilton68" - a group formed by Bill Kristol, CIA officials & various neocons - has deceived millions w/false stories. It's a scandal https://t.co/Gn6w398cVA

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) February 22, 2018

here's the piece in question if we're interested in more than just gotcha stuff - which on this thread ilx basically isn't

khat person (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 22 February 2018 17:11 (three years ago) link

best things about the piece: has a link to a video of Adrien Chen appearing on MSNBC and a link to this Masha Gessen article.

khat person (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 22 February 2018 17:20 (three years ago) link

I was looking for support in the article for the claim that Hamilton 68 has deceived millions , but I didn’t see it.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 February 2018 17:40 (three years ago) link

Would have been better to just link the Gessen piece (although there’s some super questionable cherry picking in that) instead of effectively endorsing someone’s argument that Nunes should be taken at face value. Chen was good on Hayes but his pints probably shouldn’t be appropriated for the goal post shifting of others.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 22 February 2018 18:05 (three years ago) link

Reading the piece with an open mind. First line: Last week, Laurence Tribe suggested, without evidence, that a plane crash in Russia was related to fallout from the Russian dossier operation orchestrated and funded by the Hillary Clinton campaign. Um no, we're done here. What the fuck is wrong with this dude?

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:02 (three years ago) link

you have fucking evidence for everything, dontcha, Fuckerik?

but lol you do have an open mind (I can feel the draft from here)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:06 (three years ago) link

What on earth is wrong with you to?

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:13 (three years ago) link

I was gonna say, if that's the controversial part, I thought that was pretty well known?

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:18 (three years ago) link

I think Fred took issue with the linkage to a plane crash in Russia without evidence

Dat Login was the dname u doofus (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:22 (three years ago) link

IIRC Tribe tweeted about the crash that supposedly killed a political enemy, who it turned out wasn't on the plane? (I can't recall if he explicitly suggested it was tied to the dossier's contents.)

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:28 (three years ago) link

Holy christ that anyone on here would be okay with calling this 'the Russian dossier operation orchestrated and funded by the Hillary Clinton campaign'

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:33 (three years ago) link

That's like Benghazi-level right wing conspiracy language.

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:33 (three years ago) link

buuuut it's troo?

so ja i'm OK with it

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:34 (three years ago) link

the gessen piece is worthy of some discussion on a different thread imho

El Tomboto, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:39 (three years ago) link

I think I already linked it.....somewhere, at some point. all these threads move fast.

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:41 (three years ago) link

Morbs, you're insane. It's not true, it's what the Devin Nunes spin says. Are you watching Fox News all day?

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:45 (three years ago) link

Wait, are we going along with the implication that that alone makes the dossier info less credible or just saying it’s fair to acknowledge it began as oppo research?

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:47 (three years ago) link

The latter.

Simon H., Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:48 (three years ago) link

yes

F, get some help

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:55 (three years ago) link

She is clearly not saying the latter. She is calling the whole Russian investigation fallout from the dossier, which is the Nunes bullshit.

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:56 (three years ago) link

"Hillary Clinton is a lizard person who didn't visit Wisconsin"
"Holy shit, what's wrong with this idiot?"
"What?!?!?! She didn't visit Wisconsin. FUCKYOUFUCKYOURAKJSBRÅOAUBÅTGBÅ"

Frederik B, Thursday, 22 February 2018 20:59 (three years ago) link

She refers to it as “the discredited dossier” at one point.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:38 (three years ago) link

presumably GG is not endorsing every single assertion by Ms Hemingway

but really guys keep yr trashfire going

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 21:47 (three years ago) link

That’s true. Shouldn’t discount possibility that he only the part of the article that mentioned him.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:36 (three years ago) link

morbs your favorite crew is shilling for a hack opportunist, how u feel??

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/22/emilys-list-laura-moser-texas-congress/

global tetrahedron, Friday, 23 February 2018 00:45 (three years ago) link

tetra, i don't even care to click, and my fave crew is the '73 Mets

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 February 2018 04:26 (three years ago) link

actually dude, most anything that pisses off EMILY's List is fine with me

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 February 2018 21:33 (three years ago) link

two months pass...

One of his best moments

Yes, I do. And I'd be happy to bet you any amount of money that he will.

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) March 18, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 16:41 (three years ago) link

would find greenwald perfectly defensible if he never tweeted

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 16:46 (three years ago) link

most of his tweets are fine tbh

Simon H., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 16:57 (three years ago) link

Amazing. Apparently his defense is that he confused him with his father. Believing that Ron Paul would react any differently is just as stupid, though.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 16:59 (three years ago) link

He probably is a libertarian more than a progressive.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:00 (three years ago) link

good to know, exactly what i was talking about

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:00 (three years ago) link

dp

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:01 (three years ago) link

xp***

doing great today lol

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:01 (three years ago) link

Xpost Yeah without question he’d vote for Rand over Bernie Sanders

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:15 (three years ago) link

I...don't actually think that's true

Simon H., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:16 (three years ago) link

It's absolutely true that he wears cargo shorts, flip-flops, and his house stinks of dog.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:17 (three years ago) link

He probably is a libertarian more than a progressive.

― Frederik B, 24. april 2018 19:00 (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah without question he’d vote for Rand over Bernie Sanders

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, 24. april 2018 19:15 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I...don't actually think that's true

― Simon H., 24. april 2018 19:16 (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No, because Rand ain't Ron

Frederik B, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:21 (three years ago) link

does Nerdstrom report to gabbneb at the DNC?

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:13 (three years ago) link

i don't actually know what Greenwald's politics are but his husband is a socialist politician

Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:15 (three years ago) link

i quit reading GG more than a year ago and he is very annoying on a lot of subjects, but he is not a libertarian, and it's "stupid" (to borrow the only adjective fred appears to know) to keep saying that

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 19:14 (three years ago) link

he's not libertarian much at all. He's just very strident in the contrarian positions that he takes. He's really treating Joy Reid like a chew toy in the past few days.

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 19:38 (three years ago) link

can't imagine why he'd be taking offense at joy ann reid right now

Simon H., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 19:45 (three years ago) link

it ain't hard tbh

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 19:52 (three years ago) link

His focus on Joy Reid has been ongoing, MSNBC anchors are usually the culprit when the president or the GOP does something bad.. Also he’s definitely not the guy who gets to complain about anyone else’s problematic old blog posts.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 20:03 (three years ago) link

yes the gay man cannot complain about homophobic posts

and he's been sooooo vicious about it

People have the right to change. I believed Joy Reid's apology for those anti-gay blog posts she wrote (they were before the Dem Party officially changed its views on these questions). But her claim that these newly discovered, horribly bigoted posts are fake needs to be verified https://t.co/LYd1rnT07f

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) April 23, 2018

Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 20:15 (three years ago) link

When he praises Tucker Carlson and speaks wistfully about Ron Paul, yeah we can say the selectively is suspect in his case

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 20:17 (three years ago) link

i'm gonna say the gay guy can complain about old homophobic blog posts regardless of how much of a dumbshit he's been in history

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 20:19 (three years ago) link

Well yeah I definitely agree it shouldn’t be illegal.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 20:28 (three years ago) link

it should just be criticized by straight men on the internet

Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 20:35 (three years ago) link

Xpost Yeah without question he’d vote for Rand over Bernie Sanders

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, April 24, 2018 1:15 PM (three hours ago)

I always wonder when people say things like this whether they're dumb or just uninformed

k3vin k., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 21:04 (three years ago) link

like I certainly don't read all the tweets and essays of the people I hate, and I don't expect other people to. but it seems that the least one could do if they're not going to bother doing any reading or critical thinking is just not to say anything

k3vin k., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 21:05 (three years ago) link

greenwald is a progressive and a civil libertarian, but what's most important to understand is he's a contrarian, and for whatever reason he sees it as his duty to police the left. this can obviously become tiring pretty quickly but I think it's a legitimate beat. of course it's fair game to disagree with his conclusions

k3vin k., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 21:09 (three years ago) link

That's because there's not much of a click reward for being merely a skeptic--gotta go full blown contrarian to have a beat that pays.

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 22:18 (three years ago) link

k3vin otm

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 22:30 (three years ago) link

Greenwald styles himself a consistent advocate of free speech, but he celebrated the censorship and legal harassment of a leftist who wrote about "anti-establishment" fascist entryism. https://t.co/IqJGKxxvpY

— Charles Davis (@charliearchy) April 24, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 23:00 (three years ago) link

The Guardian and WaPo benefited professionally from his work w Snowden exposing the NSA, to the tune of both winning 2014 Pulitzer. somehow he's a bad contrarian and they aren't, even though they happily mined those "click rewards".

Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 23:02 (three years ago) link

Charles Davis is a former Ron Paul fan and the article Greenwald was complaining about was both libellous and factually incorrect enough for the SPLC to apologise for slack editorial standards fwiw - containing allegations that the SPLC themselves had previously debunked.

The idea that you can’t be pro-free speech and against factually incorrect stuff being published by respected organisations is beneath Davis.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 05:42 (three years ago) link

Yeah Davis wrote positively about Paul’s opppsition to the drone program in 2011, which is better than speaking wistfully about him in 2018. Wait, the thing The Southern Povertly Law Center was forced to retract was about Max Blumenthal’s Assadist tendencies, something he used his considerable inherited resources to intimidate that organization into not running. Do we actually disagree with that characterization of Blumenthal?

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 08:32 (three years ago) link

Whether we agree with the characterisation or not, an organisation with the weight of the SPLC probably shouldn’t be publishing factually-inaccurate pieces contradicted by their own research work.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 09:16 (three years ago) link

I like Davis well enough but he’s far more guilty of ‘policing the left’ than Greenwald and is clearly driven as much by professional bitterness as principle.

Defending hack-work from a Geography teacher with an axe to grind on the “red brown alliance” fits with his absolute loathing of Norton, Blumenthal, etc but it’s not clear why anyone else would want to join in. There are plenty of critiques of that clique not relying on speculation and misleading info.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 09:31 (three years ago) link

It wasn’t a fact based retraction per the SPLC though but seemingly threat based. Blumenthal hasn’t been clear about what facts were in dispute. The lawyer who sent the intimidation letters worked under one of the subjects of the piece (alt-right personality Cassandra Fairbanks) at “Sputnik”, which pushes the false flag narratives the piece was critical of.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 09:32 (three years ago) link

Blumenthal has been fairly clear about the parts he was challenging, including the elements that the SPLC had previously identified as false in other reports.

I’m in no great hurry to defend him but this was a substandard piece of work.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 09:44 (three years ago) link

He wasn’t even remotely specific about any single thing in the interview he gave RT about it. Just the broad generalities (“they are trying to stifle dissent”’). Weird....

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 10:18 (three years ago) link

The Guardian and WaPo benefited professionally from his work w Snowden exposing the NSA, to the tune of both winning 2014 Pulitzer. somehow he's a bad contrarian and they aren't, even though they happily mined those "click rewards".


The Guardian did a whopping pile of the actual work iirc - Glenn ended up being a pass-through, and he didn’t sacrifice anything of value in the process. So basically fuck off with this noise.

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 11:08 (three years ago) link

I have to say I do love that GG is now such an obvious schmuck / useful idiot that we use this thread as a place to talk about the editorial standards of places he doesn’t work, instead

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 11:14 (three years ago) link

"useful idiot" -- McCarthyism is def dead

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 13:10 (three years ago) link

I don't find him to be a useful idiot at all. Just strident a little too often.

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 13:17 (three years ago) link

Yeah, let's not get back to the bad days where Joseph McCarthy called people a 'useful idiot' a lot. Boy, that was horrible.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 13:42 (three years ago) link

Also, apart from it being amazingly stupid to reduce McCarthyism to calling people 'useful idiots', Greenwald literally published information given to him by a Russian Intelligence Agent with the thinnest of fig leafs. It's not even hyperbolic to call him a 'useful idiot', it's quite descriptive.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 13:58 (three years ago) link

Useful idiot is a technical term

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 14:00 (three years ago) link

Fred, you're the other kind

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 14:13 (three years ago) link

Frederik 'Useful Genius' B

Frederik B, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 14:17 (three years ago) link

like Tony "Tiny" Lester

Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 15:38 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

.@ggreenwald is on white nationalist @TuckerCarlson's Fox News show hyping the latest GOP-fueled conspiracy theory. #FearlessAndAdversarial pic.twitter.com/aMooy9AY89

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 14, 2018

You’d think the self-proclaimed adversarial journalist, who holds the powerful accountable, might want to expose literal internment camps instead of hob-nob on de facto state media shows.

— Ben Yelin (@byelin) June 14, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 14 June 2018 02:54 (three years ago) link

Really just the classic trajectory

valorous wokelord (silby), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:04 (three years ago) link

I’m starting to think that “holding the people in power accountable” isn’t actually what he’s about.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:23 (three years ago) link

Are there still people on the left who give this asshole credence, and if so, why?

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:27 (three years ago) link

Pretty much all residual benefit of the doubt from the Snowden days.

Simon H., Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:28 (three years ago) link

He is sometimes good on specific points/subjects but overall seems too high on his own farts to see what he's actually doing. Never a big fan but soured on him a lot when he gave Tucker Carlson a very forgiving interview on the Intercepted podcast, allowing Carlson to put out all his soft-sounding justifications for his bigoted anti-immigrant and anti-minority rhetoric without a serious challenge.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:31 (three years ago) link

and his earlier writings, obviously. in some ways the times have passed him by though, it' sad
xp

k3vin k., Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:31 (three years ago) link

man alive, I disagree. He knows exactly what he's doing. I don't believe for a second that he's simply confused or misguided. I think he's actively working for the other side.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:35 (three years ago) link

he's obviously not

k3vin k., Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:36 (three years ago) link

What makes you say that? I don't think it is obvious at all. He's playing a useful role for Fox and the GOP, and enjoying all the attention he's getting from it.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:38 (three years ago) link

He knows exactly what he's doing

let us dispense with the notion . . .

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:38 (three years ago) link

What makes you say that? I don't think it is obvious at all. He's playing a useful role for Fox and the GOP, and enjoying all the attention he's getting from it.

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, June 13, 2018 10:38 PM (forty seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

um, the fact that the rest of his work/writing suggests otherwise?

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:42 (three years ago) link

I wouldn't say that he's always played this role, or always wanted to, but I think he's found that his targets and Fox's targets have aligned ever closer to the point where his most receptive and widest audience can be reached through Fox. He's banged away on the same themes for years, but in the age of Trump, it's less palatable to leftists and very useful to the right.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 14 June 2018 03:51 (three years ago) link

It was funny to see these two tweets in succession today. Kind of like how he accused the guy who linked Russia to the NRA of being an insane conspiracy theorist and never apologized for being wrong when it became even more confirmed to be true. Par for the course with his approach to the Russia investigation.

Beyond the fact that she treats her audience like 8-year-olds - repeating the same banal points 5 times in increasingly dramatic fashion to make sure they retain it & believe it's earth-shattering - she's now the most militaristic, and the most conspiratorial, commentator on TV: https://t.co/5YrVLxVJki

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) June 13, 2018


President Trump Said He Got the Idea to End Military Exercises With South Korea from Vladimir Putin >>> https://t.co/Ij89UirPkZ via @TPM

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) June 13, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 14 June 2018 04:25 (three years ago) link

i don't see a connection between the two tweets (i'm sure a Pavlovian response to "Putin" takes care of that).

"State media" is a particularly cunty construction by the MSNBC zombies. It's megacorporate media lusting for an audience.

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 June 2018 05:43 (three years ago) link

GG is quote tweeting the below in the first one. Of course the segment isn’t at all like it’s being described plus seeing him be that obnoxiously dismissive when the story turns out to be confirmed by Trump himself. But his description of Maddow is self evidently ridiculous (with or without noting that he goes on Tucker).

So after dramatically revealing to her audience that North Korea has a border with Russia -- gasp -- Maddow tonight went on an extended dot-connecting monologue where she darkly intimates that maybe somehow the real beneficiary of the Trump/Kim summit was... PUTIN. Beyond parody pic.twitter.com/a9bEwWn6l1

— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) June 13, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 14 June 2018 06:09 (three years ago) link

The description of Greenwald from that essay we discussed in the other thread was spot on: The man’s political illiteracy is exceeded only by his sense of self-righteousness. And it should be no surprise that once his political illiteracy caused him to do something majorly fucked up - like taking information from Russian Intelligence to ratfuck the Democratic presidential nominee - his sense of self-rigtheousness would demand that he did whatever he could to somehow, someway make it seem okay.

Frederik B, Thursday, 14 June 2018 10:19 (three years ago) link

Putin is the beneficiary of the summit
Yam 'got idea' to end exercises from Putin

^These don't seem to be nec identical.

I'm going to let you two New Cold warriors jerk off in peace now.

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 June 2018 11:17 (three years ago) link

Shouting “you want WWIII” over anyone who talks about the Russian govt in negative terms is in no way an embarrassing trope or bad for the discourse.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Thursday, 14 June 2018 16:32 (three years ago) link

TFW you're slamming Rachel Maddow for conspiracy theories by linking to a guy who pushed Seth Rich, Syria false flag & Hillary health conspiracies (aka an actual conspiracy theorist) pic.twitter.com/kv2SUa8lQj

— Centrism Fan Acct 🔹 (@Wilson__Valdez) June 15, 2018

And as has been repeatedly pointed out to Glenn (including in the replies to this very tweet) the segment's premise was based directly on this reporting from the rw WSJ, that said the very thing that he is calling an insane conspiracy. pic.twitter.com/MYKk6eKECw

— Centrism Fan Acct 🔹 (@Wilson__Valdez) June 15, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 15 June 2018 17:38 (three years ago) link

Good god that dude has gone off the deep end.

Frederik B, Friday, 15 June 2018 18:58 (three years ago) link

honestly what irks me most about GG is he's perfectly capable of a reasonable, well-balanced take or interview (what I saw of the Ocasio-Cortez interview was good, his recent Chapo appearance was pretty much completely unobjectionable AFAICT), but when he's wrong or misleading he invariably doubles down, deflects, or obfuscates instead of owning up to it (not a problem unique to him of course). This is a general problem with the pundit/journalist class - evolution is generally a liability

Simon H., Friday, 15 June 2018 19:30 (three years ago) link

I for one am willing to admit I've mostly only noticed the OK takes cause I don't follow him on Twitter, meaning I only see the ones my followers have prescreened for approval

Simon H., Friday, 15 June 2018 19:33 (three years ago) link

The thing that most irks me about that is Ocasio-Cortez and Chapo still dealing with him and pretending he is not an idiot who consistently goes on Fox News to attack the left.

Frederik B, Friday, 15 June 2018 19:40 (three years ago) link

enh O-C needs all the media support she can get givent he short campaigning window (and won't get any attention from mainstream media ever) and Chapo has never really consistently vetted their guests beyond having a shared set of dunks on whatever libs or chuds they're talking about in a given week, which is fine since that's at least 85% of their whole thing

Simon H., Friday, 15 June 2018 19:53 (three years ago) link

his clowndom on Hannity is unforgivable. love the implication that somehow your avg shitlib is somehow more dangerous/ more influential than Sean fucking Hannity.

constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 15 June 2018 19:59 (three years ago) link

Chapo should vet their guests and why would O-C need media support from a Fox regular? Alarm bells should ring.

Frederik B, Friday, 15 June 2018 20:05 (three years ago) link

yes why would somebody running for office want support from the media? i mean aside from trying to get voters ofc

Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 15 June 2018 20:12 (three years ago) link

I would wager that for most people, GG/the Intercept doesn't have an immediate Fox connotation regardless of his appearances there, but even if he did, she's there to deliver a message, not boost his. xp

Simon H., Friday, 15 June 2018 20:14 (three years ago) link

People who still believe in GG/intercept are idiots at this point, and it should be disturbing that a progressive candidate depends on that kind of idiots to get into power. What kind of message can she deliver? And you could use the same logic anywhere. Some idiot going on Breitbart, but to deliver a message, not boost them. Also, she rails against PACs and corporations because she (correctly) says they inevitably influences the politicians who depends on them, but on the other hand she joins hands with Fox contributors to get votes from idiots and think it doesn't matter?

Frederik B, Friday, 15 June 2018 20:21 (three years ago) link

you're not a smart man

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 15 June 2018 20:26 (three years ago) link

I flagged your post because you used "idiot(s)" 4 times. Learn more words.

President Keyes, Friday, 15 June 2018 20:27 (three years ago) link

If we lock this thread will it trap Fred B inside forever?

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 15 June 2018 21:15 (three years ago) link

does mordy still post ?

flopson, Friday, 15 June 2018 22:32 (three years ago) link

Frederik is more dangerous than Hannity

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 16 June 2018 01:46 (three years ago) link