Should Pope Francis sell the family jewels?

The new pope says he wants a poor church for poor people. Do you think he should sell the Vatican and all the other Catholic Church's assets and give all the proceeds to the poor? What do you think he has planned?

well it ain't that

put the vatican on ebay

tbh I'd rather they not sell whatever artistic heritage they are custodians of to Russian oligarchs or whoever?

he should sell all his cure cds

Cassettes

Then the poor ppl wouldnt be poor, at least not for a generation or so

alas I don't think there is a market for gem-laden tiaras outside Russian oligarchs

better to the poor than slowly siphoned off to the mafia

If you have to have an uberprivileged ruling class i spose prince charles isnt a bad template eh, befuddled and well meaning and sort of imbued with some sense of public service

Pope is going to live in a bed and breakfast with his friends rather than live in the papal apartment.

Its common enough in your first year away iirc

This is a good start: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/10061700/Pope-Francis-urges-global-leaders-to-end-tyranny-of-money.html

(you cynical bastards)

((said the atheist))

Safe target. This will not do the banks or financial institutions the slightest harm. He gets credit for having his heart in the right place. Wake me up when he goes on the rampage against the rich.

At least he's not making homophobia his first order of business...

Better than a sick in the eye

Pope Francis, in the first extensive interview of his six-month-old papacy, said that the Roman Catholic church had grown “obsessed” with preaching about abortion, gay marriage and contraception, and that he has chosen not to speak of those issues despite recriminations from some critics.

In remarkably blunt language, Francis sought to set a new tone for the church, saying it should be a “home for all” and not a “small chapel” focused on doctrine, orthodoxy and a limited agenda of moral teachings.

“It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time,” the pope told the Rev. Antonio Spadaro, a fellow Jesuit and editor in chief of La Civiltà Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit journal whose content is routinely approved by the Vatican. “The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.

“We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

this guy

best Pope ever

would love to hear some inner-circle aggravation directed at this guy

You ppl who perv out reading wingnut forums should have fun with this

yep, read that in the library and had to put my hood up so it wasn't obvious i was crying. every once in a while, something public like this gives me a reason to be proud to call myself a lapsed catholic rather than just an agnostic. live a long, long life, dude

i mean dude is a pope, he's going to do some aggravating things to be sure, but i'm going to remember this and want to give him the benefit of the doubt -- he gets it, it's clear. and come on, he likes dostoevsky and fellini and mozart.

All this plus he's a Marxist. Wonder how long before he gets poisoned.

the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel

available in the Vatican gift shop

Not to mention Caravaggio; seriously fallen person but helluva painter

i would've preferred it if he said that he liked Ingmar Bergman instead of Fellini, but hey he's of Italian ancestry and it's all good.

Wonder how long before he gets poisoned.

right from the start, he reminded me most of John Paul I.

Women still can't be priests, of course, bcz they don't look like Jesus.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/20/best_pope_ever_still_pretty_awful/

Jesus probably didn't look like Jesus tbf

“It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time,” the pope told the Rev. Antonio Spadaro, a fellow Jesuit and editor in chief of La Civiltà Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit journal whose content is routinely approved by the Vatican. “The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.

first part of this quote could just as well be him deflecting the unpopular discussions. all of it could, tbh? i'm not seeing a clear positive message of change here, really.

nice post k3v

xp, maybe, but it does sound to me like he's telling priests to back off on the sex-control a bit. That 'imposed insistently' in particular suggests possible change in practice. I mean, yes I am suspicious of the RC church & am holding back from cheerleading Francis but… it's tempting.

'jeez already ease up dudez'

if he'd've come straight out and said "i'm bringing gay sexy back" he'd be dead by now tbf

yeah, I think this is what change would look like… some casual non-ex-cathedra stuff like this, then maybe some more serious pronouncements saying that eg if condoms can save lives, it becomes a moral decision for priests on the ground - ie give the liberal wing of the church a bit of room & some weight.

and then st peters will turn into a giant abortion clinic run by gays

all because we abandoned the latin mass

I welcome this new Catholic gay disco and wish it many pills

Can sum up this papacy so far in three words: FRANKIE SAY RELAX.

it's ok, he's an arsehole after all http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/pope-catholic-doctors-refuse-abortions

oh c'mon, that's not gonna change.

My Jesuit relative-by-marriage has been on every damn cable news show in the last 48 hours.

gotta love how me and morbs are over here being the catholic iatees, but morbs otm

I sorta think there is a God, and he is going to send most of the Catholic hierarchy to hell.

(he or she obv)

Can sum up this papacy so far in three words: FRANKIE SAY RELAX.

― hipster racist (King Boy Pato),

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/world/europe/pope-assails-bureaucracy-of-church-as-insular.html?from=homepage

Francis has made clear that he wants not simply to clean up scandals, but to rid the church of careerists, climbers and those who value clerics more than the laity. He said in the interview, “Clericalism should not have anything to do with Christianity.”

He said the Curia should be like a “quartermaster’s office” in the army because it was meant to manage “the services that serve the Holy See.” He said the problem is that the Curia has a “Vatican-centric” view that “neglects the world around us.”

“I do not share this view, and I’ll do everything I can to change it,” he said.

damn this pope is so baller

who was the last pope to get assassinated by malcontents from within

this guy is really really fascinating, can't wait to see what he does next.

who was the last pope to get assassinated by malcontents from within

― j., Tuesday, October 1, 2013 11:06 PM (1 minute ago)

that guy in the godfather 3

^that was JP I, yeah

didn't see this til today.

Check this out: http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/

Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense

<3

seriously, if this guy survives the year, then I will be really ~amazed~

also I'm all about the Vatican putting together an XI for a cricket match against the Anglicans

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/us/conservative-us-catholics-feel-left-out-of-the-popes-embrace.html?hp&_r=0

lotta chumps sure seem to know better than their spirit-prince how to be catholic

omg

“There have been bad popes in the history of the church,” Mr. Skojec said. “Popes that murdered, popes that had mistresses. I’m not saying Pope Francis is terrible, but there’s no divine protection that keeps him from being the type of guy who with subtlety undermines the teachings of the church to bring about a different vision.”

yes!! prophecies!!!

Some conservative Catholics are sharing prophecies online that foretell of tribulations for the church. In one, an Irish woman predicted that Benedict would be held hostage. Others cite the German mystic Anne Catherine Emmerich, who wrote of a “relationship between two popes,” one who “lives in a palace other than before,” which some now see as a reference to Benedict, who resigned as pope early this year but still lives in Vatican City. During this time there arises a “false church of darkness.”

A pity Nino, Alito, Roberts, and Slobbo weren't quoted.

What kind of a Christian tells an atheist he has no intention to convert him?

The best kind!

i got good LOLs from this article

The sly kind

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/world-news/detail/articolo/francesco-francis-francisco-ebrei-jews-judios-29683/

Lol.

The article does not really deliver on the promise of the headline alas.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/11/how-strong-is-pope-francis.html

strong like bull

strong enough to create a rock that he cant lift

good piece

Obv not a medici pope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/22/opinion/conservative-view-of-pope.html?_r=0

I am not anti-pope. Popes are infallible only when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals. Pope Francis’s off-the-cuff remarks during an interview do not have to be supported to remain a Catholic in good standing.

BRIDGET KURT
Smyrna, Ga., Nov. 18, 2013

BRING ON THE ANTIPOPES

An apostolic exhortation!

Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a “disposable” culture which is now spreading. It is no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new. Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised – they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the “exploited” but the outcast, the “leftovers”.

In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/26/pope_francis_capitalism_is_a_new_tyranny/

really interesting. key gesture that separates what he's saying from marxist leftism is that distinction between "exploited" and "excluded"--a question of mercy rather than justice. both have their place, i suppose, and im glad he's willing to speak up for the former.

49. Let us go forth, then, let us go forth to offer everyone the life of Jesus Christ. Here I repeat for the entire Church what I have often said to the priests and laity of Buenos Aires: I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security. I do not want a Church concerned with being at the centre and then ends by being caught up in a web of obsessions and procedures. If something should rightly disturb us and trouble our consciences, it is the fact that so many of our brothers and sisters are living without the strength, light and consolation born of friendship with Jesus Christ, without a community of faith to support them, without meaning and a goal in life. More than by fear of going astray, my hope is that we will be moved by the fear of remaining shut up within structures which give us a false sense of security, within rules which make us harsh judges, within habits which make us feel safe, while at our door peole are starving and Jesus does not tire of saying to us: “Give them something to eat” (Mk 6:37).

goin so hard, what a boss

Wow this Pope rules.

I keep thinking there's gotta be a catch.

there usually is when they give you something to eat

can he save K Lo's soul

The less-than-awesome stuff this Pope has already been involved in has been cataloged already, and shouldn't be dismissed, but I admit, I'm impressed with the economic-morality stance. Not to mention making those positions the first points of the document.

Its sweet he wants to wade in on this kinda thing, but who exactly do ye imagine is about to take budgeting advice from il papa?

Not many... because John Paul II, for example, said some similar things, just not as forcefully.

FWIW, I had to scroll waaaay down on US HuffPo to see this reported at all, and in a way that didn't communicate the strength of the language.

Anecdotally, my French-Canadian grandma has pictures of JPII everywhere, and I don't imagine Francis dislodging any of those in her lifetime.

Francis pissed off that circus clown Rash Limbaugh, apparently, but I sure as hell wasn't gonna listen to the clip or link it.

FWIW, I had to scroll waaaay down on US HuffPo to see this reported at all, and in a way that didn't communicate the strength of the language.

― Simon H., Thursday, November 28, 2013 9:09 PM (49 minutes ago)

it's been covered pretty widely

yeah it got alot of press, almost certainly due to francis' previous statements. jpII spent the post-cold war part of his papacy making similar (if more muted) statements but w/ him there were so many other things in his agenda that were more of a focus and that coaligned more w/ conservative evangelical interests it never got much play. plus arguably the atmosphere is different, more ready to hear that message now than during jpII's day. it's interesting cuz catholicism's become this weird marker of intellectualism w/ the right, nro clowns, the conservative scotus justices, and obv newt gingrich.

My right wing cousin and host praised Francis' messages and scorned Obama's "closing of the Vatican embassy just when it has the potential of being influential again".

The less-than-awesome stuff this Pope has already been involved in has been cataloged already, and shouldn't be dismissed,

what is this stuff?

The church

Let's agree that the church has backward agendas on sexuality and equality for women. They do some other stuff that's good -- feeding the hungry, running hospitals, etc.

this guy is the pope of good PR

I keep thinking there's gotta be a catch.

― a fifth of misty beethoven (cryptosicko), Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I know, right? I keep reminding myself to temper my enthusiasm for this guy.

by all accounts he's just a fantastic guy. he's a product of his upbringing and of his background -- all popes are going to be -- but laying out his priorities like this, taking a moral stance against markets, etc, these things matter

i mean i'd love it if he called for the ordination of women or supported civil unions, but that's just not going to happen. the fact that he's called for these issues to be deemphasized is a pretty big step. and you know, imo, economic issues are more important anyway, so i'm glad he's being as forceful as he is.

isn't there some reasonably critical summit or juncture sometime soon at which like at least attitudes toward gay marriage are addressed? feel like amy davidson was suggesting it was a kinda litmus test for him in swashbuckling rhetoric vs effect

wkiw this dude:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/03/pope-i-was-once-a-bar-bouncer/?hpt=hp_c2

priests' laundry, so you know he has seen some dark shit

Would kill to read an interview with Benedict about Pope Frankie.

<3
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vatican-refuses-to-share-sex-abuse-investigations-with-un-1.1616591
<3

Church so cool now that pope frank is dropping commie tracts <3

you are absolutely correct and I regret my flippant post from yesterday, if I had a beer with the dude his goons would probably throw me out of a helicopter afterwards

TIME Person of the Year

http://i.imgur.com/421606U.jpg

Miley Cyrus picks up a copy, thinks: "KLo was right! I am the Person of the Year!"

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71676000/jpg/_71676112_71676107.jpg
Pope-ing ain't easy!

Didn't think of it til now, but am now realizing what a bullet we dodged in electing him as POTY rather than Miley Cyrus.

or pope, even

Let's agree that the church has backward agendas on sexuality and equality for women. They do some other stuff that's good -- feeding the hungry, running hospitals, etc.

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, November 29, 2013 4:51 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

gabbneb

gotta love how me and morbs are over here being the catholic iatees, but morbs otm

― druhilla (k3vin k.), Saturday, September 21, 2013 11:01 AM (2 months ago)

the catholic church actually owns allot of real estate

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/financial-scandals-the-hidden-wealth-of-the-catholic-church-a-700513.html

hey Matt u have yr Democratic Church

also PFI saved Time from having to transparently not pick Snowden

or assad. basically any greenwald hero.

http://www.startribune.com/world/238706881.html

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Pope to nuns: Why aren't you answering the phone? Francis cold-calls nuns, gets machine

Article by: Associated Press
Updated: January 4, 2014 - 1:09 PM

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Pope Francis smiles as he leaves Rome's Jesus' Church to celebrate a mass with the Jesuits, on the occasion of the order's titular feast, Friday, Jan. 3, 2014.

Photo: Riccardo De Luca, Associated Press - Ap

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VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis has made another one of his cold calls to wish a group of nuns in a Spanish convent Happy New Year. Only he got their answering machine, instead.

"What are the nuns doing that they can't answer the phone?" Francis asked in the message he left, the recording of which was obtained by Spain's El Mundo newspaper and broadcast on Italian media Saturday.

"This is Pope Francis. I wanted to offer you greetings for the end of the year. Maybe I'll try to call again later. May God bless you," he said.

Francis has made a habit out of calling people out of the blue, often checking in with ordinary folk who have written him about their hardships. He places the calls himself, as evidenced by the message.

sad pope trombone.wav

but seriously, wtf were the nuns doing

Nunthings.

pope stops to think about what the nuns could possibly be doing

pope orders inquiry into what do nuns do all day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oRoVAdhtoc

pope gives a guy a lift

Heeeyyyy I'm just an ordinary guyyyyyyyy, me, just popin away the days bein all chillllll

Only a matter of time before he kicks off the apocalypse and the mask falls

I secretly hope the nuns were doing some weird druidic ritual in a dark fiery cave, nude

brb casting a nunsploitation thriller

Every fifteen minutes cut back to the answering machine.

Popeshot

chocolate pope

http://i1.wp.com/www.equinoxpub.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Chocolate-Pope.jpg

Gainin' on ya

If you eat his nose first, he says "Who am I to judge?"

Where I come from the pope's nose is edible, but it isn't made of chocolate.

man, what are ya supposed to say to someone who plops you in front of a life-sized chocolate statue of yourself

You say thank you very much, then later that someone gets fired.

later that day

they could at least have made the vestments out of white chocolate so he could play pranks around the residence with it

as is it would make for some ok antipope jokes

pope gives up chocolate for Lent. troll pope with giant chocolate statue of pope.

This is unexpected

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/05/pope-francis-church-could-support-civil-unions/

can't believe we missed the obvious 'take, eat, this is my body' jokes

http://www.startribune.com/world/248729701.html

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Pope confesses he stole his late confessor's cross in hopes of having half as much mercy

Article by: NICOLE WINFIELD , Associated Press
Updated: March 6, 2014 - 8:52 AM

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Pope Francis celebrates the Ash Wednesday mass at the Santa Sabina Basilica in Rome, Wednesday, March 5, 2014.

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VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis confessed Thursday that he took the rosary cross of his late confessor from his casket and wears it to this day in a fabric pouch under his cassock. He said he did so telling the late priest, "Give me half your mercy."

Francis made the revelation Thursday during an informal chat with Roman priests about the need to be merciful to their flocks. He told the story of the "great confessor" of Buenos Aires who had heard confessions from most of the diocesan priests as well as from Pope John Paul II when he visited Argentina.

When the priest died, Francis went to pray by his open casket and was stunned that no one had brought any flowers.

"This man forgave the sins of all the priests of Buenos Aires, but not a single flower ...?" Francis recalled. So he went out and bought a bouquet of roses, and when he returned to arrange them around the casket, he saw the rosary the priest still held in his hand.

"And immediately there came to mind the thief we all have inside ourselves and while I arranged the flowers I took the cross and with just a bit of force I removed it," he said, showing with his hands how he pulled the cross off the rosary. "And in that moment I looked at him and I said 'Give me half your mercy.'"

Francis said he kept the cross in his shirt pocket for years, but that the cassock he wears now as pope doesn't have a pocket. He now keeps it in a little pouch underneath.

pope steals from dead priest, fukkin wicked

pope doesn't have a pocket? why not steal one

Someone needs to make a sitcom based on this guy.

pope steals confessor's nose

http://tamberrinoartstudio.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/img_29074.jpg

they will, AB, esp if the Curia poison him

who could possibly play him in a sitcom

Jonathan Pryce!

That would rule so much!

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/0/4/9/1/7/0/3/Pope-Francis-Jeffrey-Tambor-103840793473.jpeg

i was kidding, it is obv tambor

Robert Blake as Benedict XVI.

that "just a bit of force" is superb.

I think he has the only job in the world where you could get away with demonstrating how you stole a cross from a corpse's hands.

Its p much the job, when you think about it

^^ ecclesiastically accurate burn

That's gonna be my new stickup line when I turn to crime."gimme half your mercy!"

This is really crazy, is the pope an android or something?

I wonder, if the Pope gets outta line - who gonna check em? He the pope yo - aint nobody can check em

There's a weekly fanzine.

http://www.formiche.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Il-Mio-Papa-400x349.jpg

http://www.theguardian.com/media/mediamonkeyblog/2014/mar/05/pope-francis-il-mio-papa-silvio-berlusconi

http://i.imgur.com/QHZ1sYI.jpg

He'll be hanging with Charlie Sheen by this time next year.

That is the expression, imo, of a man who will kill again

He was such a quiet pope, never bothered anyone, kept mostly to himself ...

Actually, last pope fit serial killer model better.

This pope is more like some "Adam Sandler accidentally becomes pope" movie. Relatively speaking.

you know at best i'm a pretty ambivalent non-churchgoing Catholic these days, but that's a mean thing to say.

relatively.

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/yimcatholic/files/2013/03/537721_10200855986148258_584094388_n.jpg

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-goes-on-retreat-takes-the-bus/

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/images/Pope_Francis_arrives_by_bus_in_Ariccia_Italy_for_a_week_of_Lenten_spiritual_exercises_on_March_9_2014_Credit_ANSA_OSSERVATORE_ROMANO_CNA_3_10_11.jpg

so many stolen corpse-rosaries in there

well here he lost the silent majority of ilx

The Pope criticised couples who decide not to have children during the service, saying they had been seduced by the myth that a life of material comfort is better than raising a family. 'You can go explore the world, go on holiday, you can have a villa in the countryside, you can be carefree,' he said. It might be better - more comfortable - to have a dog, two cats, and the love goes to the two cats and the dog. Is this true or not? Have you seen it?', the Pope added. 'Then, in the end this marriage comes to old age in solitude, with the bitterness of loneliness,' he went on to say. The remarks came over the Pope told those gathered that the three most important aspects of a Christian marriage are fidelity, perseverance and 'fruitfulness', according to Vatican Radio.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2646782/Pope-Francis-tells-couples-not-pets-instead-raising-children-lead-bitterness-loneliness-later-life.html

No shocker there. These are common bromides that have just enough truth to describe a carefully selected slice of reality, but not enough truth to describe reality.

"Those cats don't really love you, anyway" added the Pope.

good thing he has millions of pets to help stave off loneliness in his old age

pope otm until your shitty kids abandon you to a retirement home.

Mrs. Gualtieri is not having a good time there

Contraception off the shitlist?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11109080/Pope-Francis-adviser-hints-at-rethink-on-contraception-ban.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-wand-9822514.html

fuckit I'm in I love this guy

Francis’s comments were more in keeping with the progressive work of Pope Pius XII, who opened the door to the idea of evolution and actively welcomed the Big Bang theory. In 1996, John Paul II went further and suggested evolution was “more than a hypothesis” and “effectively proven fact”.

we're not a gaggle of Baptists, u know

Pope Benedict XVI fooled us

Kathryn Jean Lopez retweeted
Kevin Cotter @KevinRCotter · Oct 27
Just found out that my book, A Year of Mercy with Pope Francis, will be available in 3 days. Can't wait. http://ow.ly/i/7mtqc

so will you revise it?

yeah Pope Ratz was a special dude Rottweiler

if k-lo is anything i know she isn't a cafeteria catholic

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2014/11/05/pope-francis-has-99-problems-and-they-are-all-his-pellegrina/

"I love 'Gloria'!"

http://www.cathnewsusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/r-PATTI-SMITH-AND-POPE-FRANCIS-large570.jpg

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pope-francis-gets-patti-smith-singing-cardinals-vatican-christmas-concert-1474736

"I wrote 'Frederick' about ne of your predecessors!

that is amazing

"Pope Francis said, 'I have a sensation that my pontificate will be short: four or five years, or two or three.'

"'I feel the Lord,' the pope added, 'has placed me here for a short time.'

"Francis also praised his predecessor's decision to resign as courageous. Benedict's decision, the pope said, opened the door to popes emeritus.

"He also said he doesn't mind being pope, but would like to go out in Rome unrecognized, for a pizza."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/13/392817912/pope-francis-says-his-tenure-at-the-vatican-will-be-short

Love this guy for all time but hope he remains Pope for a long long time.

fun w/ the Vatican Bank!

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a34838/papa-francesco-would-like-to-see-the-real-books-please/

So the pope beatified Archbishop Romero, a martyr generally considered a foul commie by Church righties for 35+ years. Also, il papa has made friendly gestures to the founder of liberation theology.

(Chas Pierce got the timing of Romero's murder wrong -- Carter was president, not RR.)

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a35248/the-pope-does-the-right-thing/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/father-of-liberation-theology-praises-new-climate-at-vatican-1.2370340

http://gawker.com/rick-santorum-is-this-close-to-beating-the-popes-ass-1708786657

Rick Santorum—a rust-belted Pittsburgher who has embraced the Petrine church ever since he stopped being pro-choice in his first congressional election—is smeared in penitence and frothy with faith, and he will show this pontiff who’s supreme.

Santorum has challenged leftist Pope Francis to stick to photo ops in the Basilica after the Bishop of Rome mouthed off about the un-Christianness of messing up Earth’s environmental health. Via HuffPo:

Santorum, a devout Catholic, told Philadelphia radio host Dom Giordano on Monday that the pope should “leave science to the scientists.”

His comments come as the pope, who earned a master’s degree in chemistry before turning to the priesthood, becomes increasingly vocal about climate change. Pope Francis is preparing a groundbreaking encyclical to be released in the coming weeks that’s expected to make the case that taking action to fight climate change is a moral and religious imperative.

loool

Leave science to the scientists?! That's rich, coming from Santorum!

Can I join the Catholic Church just long enough to petition for Santorum's excommunication?

His comments come as the pope, who earned a master’s degree in chemistry before turning to the priesthood, becomes increasingly vocal about climate change.

I MEAN COME ON

Someone, no doubt in the Curia, has leaked Francis' climate change encyclical. Better than poisoning him, I guess. And the Catholic prez candidates are already dithering and objecting.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/15/pope-francis-destruction-ecosystem-leaked-encyclical

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/17/jeb-bush-pope-climate-change_n_7603160.html

Are we going to wind up with a Church of America out of this when the Republicatholics decide they can't abide this liberal science pope?

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122056/last-time-conservatives-dismissed-major-encyclical-it-ended-terribly

didn't know Jeet Heer wrote actual essays, thought he was just a high value tweeter

that's a good story

thanks

that was a good article

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122061/pope-franciss-vision-moral-ecology-will-challenge-both-parties

Pope Francis ‏@Pontifex
These problems are closely linked to a throwaway culture.

Pope Francis ‏@Pontifex
The earth, our home, is beginning to look more and more like an immense pile of filth.

I cant wait to see Jeb! take a strong position. Dude has basically said Catholicism is his preferred blend of Jeezo worship because of its special blend of herbs and spices. Now he has to essentially publicly denounce the head of the aforementioned chicken soup for his soul.

lol is that pile of filth one real

Pope Francis: Society is in the gutter

Account must also be taken of the pollution produced by residue, including dangerous waste present in different areas. Each year hundreds of millions of tons of waste are generated, much of it non-biodegradable, highly toxic and radioactive, from homes and businesses, from construction and demolition sites, from clinical, electronic and industrial sources. The earth, our home, is beginning to look more and more like an immense pile of filth.

There's some wtf moments in that encyclical about A/C and cars and shit. Take my car but you'll have to pry the A/C from my cold dead hands.

Alfred 'Freon' Heston

Pope Francis ‏@Pontifex 35m35 minutes ago
A decrease in the pace of production and consumption can at times give rise to another form of progress and development.

Pope Francis ‏@Pontifex 2h
Leaving an inhabitable planet to future generations is, first and foremost, up to us.

Pope Francis ‏@Pontifex 3h3 hours ago
The world we have received also belongs to who will follow us. #LaudatoSi

Morbs, it amuses me that you give this man, the head of an organization that has covered up for pedos and warned women of contraceptives for decades, the benefit of the doubt when he gets in front of the podium and not Barack Husein Obama.

I don't give any benefits, get in the cheese line.

(also Il Papa is an unelected authoritarian, albeit one without an army)

the United States Government is an org has quite a history of coverups and some crimes they are willing to take credit for that I can fax to you.

You don't say! Hold up, I'll give you my PO box.

Since when is the Pope "unelected"? Just 'cause you didn't get a vote...

yes, be a card

PF a better propagandist against climate change than President Gas has been for 6.5 years

"Better" how? In the sense of "more likely to have his empty rhetoric actually lead to concrete action"? Not fucking likely. Nobody listens to the Pope about anything. They just smile (or grimace) and (rhetorically) pat him on the head and go about their business. He's got all the power and influence of the Dalai Lama; he's a photo op.

I'm never clear on whether the Pope is the leader of one of the oldest and widest spread organisations in the world, who is responsive for all kinds of things including AIDS in Africa and overpopulation, or if he is just a soft, impotent do-hooded who moons listens to anyway.

Do-gooder, who no one listens to

Nobody listens to Obama about anything, but that's a small victory

and again, concrete action doesn't matter as it's too late

If you want empty rhetoric to lead to concrete action in this world prepare to get in a very long line.

誤訳侮辱, Bill McKibben seems to think there's power and influence

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/19/two_cheers_for_pope_francis_im_no_fan_of_the_catholic_church_but_the_climate_movement_needs_it/

Well, Bill McKibben - he would know. I mean, his books sell in the hundreds of copies.

who are you, again?

someone who doesn't see the difference in trading one purported moral witness for another

i wish i wanted to figure that out.

a Democratic Catholic: "The pope is NOT PERFECT, but..."

I'm glad the pontiff has sided with scientists regarding the damage we're doing to the earth, but I don't understand why his word matters as much or more than any other politician. He also adduced abortion as environmental chaos in action, so, yay, I guess. Once in a while he says stuff I agree with, like Obama or Bernie Sanders or Beyonce.

no one's looking for more, and i'm glad you left off George Clooney

It matters because US politicians are always waving the faith flag as the ultimate moral foundation for their positions. It may not change the way things are done right now but progressive/positive statements from the Pope do underline how full of crap that often is.

The message all of this is sending is that faith is not something defined by one person, politician or Pope, which is a good message to send imo.

My differences w/Clooney concern men's magazine editors.

more for top man to fold his arms to:

Francis issued his toughest condemnation to date of the weapons industry at a rally of thousands of young people at the end of the first day of his trip to the Italian city of Turin.

"If you trust only men you have lost," he told the young people in a long, rambling talk about war, trust and politics after putting aside his prepared address.

"It makes me think of ... people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit a distrust, doesn't it?" he said to applause.

He also criticized those who invest in weapons industries, saying "duplicity is the currency of today ... they say one thing and do another."

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html

There was an amazing letter to the editor in my local paper complaining about Pope Francis falling for the neo-pagan global warming hoax.

http://i58.tinypic.com/33aqbmv.jpg

selling the family jewels

I hope this gives Rick Santorum a stroke.

Seeing "Rick Santorum" and "stroke" appearing in the same sentence is surprisingly satisfying.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/pope-francis-i-have-felt-used-by-fake-friends?CMP=edit_2221

this is too perfect

big Joan Jett fan

"The Bible says to have one or two friends.”

jeez i'm a better Christian than i realized!

Echoing the bold appeal to care for the planet he issued in a sweeping encyclical in June, the pope condemned humankind’s “abuse of creation”.

“We’re not friends of creation. Sometimes we treat it like our worst enemy. Think of deforestation, misuse of water, methods of extracting minerals with elements like arsenic and cyanide that end up making people sick,” he said.

Of fundamentalists, he said: “Their mission is to destroy in the name of an idea, not a reality ... They kill, attack, destroy, malign in the name of an ideological god.”

if only we could get him to support women priests and drive-thru abortions.

Give him a few more years.

DRIVE-thru morbs have you not been fucking listening at ALL???????

so this is happening literally in my neighborhood. traffic already getting crazy. they told residents to buy all their groceries beforehand bc it's gonna be like a snowstorm hit and apparently i have to carry id w address so i can get through barricaded areas to get home. i will give updates if any of them are interesting.

On Sunday, Pope Francis did some off-script advice-giving to “existentially sad” Millennials in Cuba. One gem: “In Argentina, we say, ‘Don’t be wimpy.’”

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/pope-francis-advice-to-millennials-cuba/406435/

is the pope offering free conversions?

are there any photos w/ Fidel?

They were covering the Pope's arrival on the radio driving home, and all I could think was "This would be a great time for my Yamaha spot."

I don't know anything about religion.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4gU5aghpxEk/Ves5a1wOpdI/AAAAAAAANk8/7Su2-n_e704/s1600/Francisco%252C%2Bel%2Bpadre%2BJorge.%2BPel%25C3%25ADcula%2B560.jpg

everywhere around me, posters

il papa copter about to land 500 feet below us, everyone at the windows

such a lot of fuss over a CEO

saw him for about 5 secs, tiny Argentinian snowflake

Did you heckle him?

double pane of glass, 500 ft etc

plus Obama has landed there and he's actually killed, i didnt get up from my seat for that shit

well, Francis has forgiven pedophiles, so they cancel each other out before Minos.

Not sure if this belongs in things that should be Onion articles or not. You could have told me this was a new song from The Who and I would believe you.

http://pitchfork.com/news/61369-pope-francis-to-release-rock-album-shares-first-song-wake-up-go-go-forward/

Well until the latin(?) singing.

would pay to hear francis sing "we're not gonna take it"

lotta church ladies in lower Manhattan for lunch

And all the old ladies there
Are on their way to church
"Ya goin' to church?!"

how many people here like to take a taste of eucharist

I got no beef with people who take communion. It's a ritual. It's supposed to make symbolic and emotional sense, so of course it's nonsense in terms of purely materialistic rationalism, but then, materialistic rationalism is just boring when it's not being actively annoying.

if you're Catholic, it's the literal Body of Christ, and that's dawgma

yeah but nobody but nobody has ever believed that

It's a compassionate action so it's preferable to all the crossplay.

xp more like POP francis

do you believe in magic, darraghmac?

we're gonna need to sit down and strictly define some terms here imo

http://cdnph.upi.com/sv/b/i/UPI-3161360593182/2013/11/13605984522532/Pope-Benedict-XVI-resigns-The-best-pope-memes-so-far.jpg

well looks like the K Davis thing has awakened NPR liberals to the fact that il papa ain't one of them

normally would never link to one of slate's "here's why conventional wisdom is wrong" pieces, but i thought this article actually did a decent job of putting the pope's views in the context of non-u.s. catholic opinion and the history of catholic leftism:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/09/pope_francis_in_the_united_states_why_he_isn_t_the_liberal_rock_star_american.html

Perhaps he could hold some views that you like and some that you don't. You know, consider him a complex human being rather than an on/off switch for your own worldview. Nah, impossible.

tbh there's something a bit rich about american liberals criticizing the pope over his failure in this one particular department considering that barack obama and hillary clinton both opposed same-sex marriage till three years ago.

Davis thing is a little odd, since when are evangelicals down with the papists

I guess they love Santorum...

This is like discovering that the pope is catholic.

Personally, I appreciate the fact that, although Francis accepts the prevailing dogmas about abortion, contraception and homosexuality, he has taken steps to de-emphasize them as important issues for the church, as compared to pursuing its primary mission of compassion for the poor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and charity toward all. This strikes me as the most sensible path he could take, given that changing those dogmas would be highly unrealistic. He might have a bit of wiggle room on ordination for women and marriage for priests, but that would result in fighting a civil war inside the church.

tbh there's something a bit rich about american liberals criticizing the pope over his failure in this one particular department considering that barack obama and hillary clinton both opposed same-sex marriage till three years ago.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.

pretty sure I and many others criticized HRC (those initials are so perfect) and Obama for this too

Not only is Aimless OTM, but any other view is childish.

a jesuit tries to make sense of the papal visit with davis, somewhat apologetically

http://papalvisit.americamedia.org/2015/09/30/the-pope-and-kim-davis-seven-points-to-keep-in-mind/

davis's lawyers recently had to fess up that no, a picture taken of a massive prayer rally in peru was NOT held in kim davis's honor, so, it's really not surprising that they are telling us to treat this as a full papal endorsement

xp dude knows how to close strong: Meeting with the pope is a great honor, but it does not betoken a blanket blessing on “everything” one does. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Pope Francis also met Mark Wahlberg, and that does not mean that he liked “Ted.”

Davis an insignificant 15-minute troll everyone will forget about by next year. GOP/evangelicals are hyping her up out of futile desperation. Pope's just trying to stay current.

What is he supposed to do "I cast you DOOOOOWWWN!!!"

burn her at the stake maybe

seriously, these people are inveterate liars.

davis's lawyers recently had to fess up that no, a picture taken of a massive prayer rally in peru was NOT held in kim davis's honor, so, it's really not surprising that they are telling us to treat this as a full papal endorsement

― goole, Wednesday, September 30, 2015 6:47 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

an insignificant 15-minute troll everyone will forget about by next year

this season's terry schiavo

to be fair to Schiavo, she had no idea she was being used for trollbait

Personally, I appreciate the fact that, although Francis accepts the prevailing dogmas about abortion, contraception and homosexuality, he has taken steps to de-emphasize them as important issues for the church, as compared to pursuing its primary mission of compassion for the poor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and charity toward all. This strikes me as the most sensible path he could take, given that changing those dogmas would be highly unrealistic. He might have a bit of wiggle room on ordination for women and marriage for priests, but that would result in fighting a civil war inside the church.

this is how i feel FWIW. like anyone else the pope is operating within constraints. we shouldn't expect him to toss off his robes and shout "abortions for /everyone/!," and even if he did, it wouldn't be nearly as useful as using his (literal!) pulpit to call for economic justice, action on climate change. that doesn't mean the pope and the church are above criticism, far from it. but that we need to take these things in context, and here the context is the long history of the catholic church, the divided nature of the church itself (with congregations outside of north america being very passionate about economic justice and very conservative on many personal liberties), and the approach taken by previous popes (say "previous popes" a few times really fast btw; it's fun!).

reactions to the pope's visit have been a good litmus test btw of how good my facebook, etc. friends are at political nuance. a lot of them are like "SAVE US MR POPE!" and others are like "RELIGION BAD!"

really the only people who should be surprised are TV pundits

by etc. i guess i mean, like, in real life. which is often the same group as my facebook friends. but i'm not very social so most of the political "conversations" i have (apart from those with my S.O.) are online.

"Why should we care what he thinks" is my a numb-brained response I see from a good number of left-ish fb friends.

Charles Piece, normally not a credulous sort but a Catholic nonetheless, takes this rather hard.

whoa, that is way too inside baseball for me.

to cut to the chase -- does it seem that the pope actually endorsed kim davis's actions or did he just meet with her and her followers/exploiters are spinning it that way?

If you are down w meeting world leaders who are actively killing/torturing people then meeting w a crazy lady that thinks God is giving her carte blanche to not do her job is small potatoes.

Raul Castro is a worse person than Kim Davis, I told a co-worker over lunch.

lol @ W.C. fields reference though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41SFTn9xHus

fast-forward to 3:45 or so

Raul Castro is a worse person than Kim Davis, I told a co-worker over lunch.

Obama etc etc

Davis thing is a little odd, since when are evangelicals down with the papists

Weird little inversion of the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend principle on a global interfaith stage.

No, Obama is not my coworker.

https://historicallyanimated.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/7bfa6-rimshot.jpg?w=335&h=251

It's like when you hang with your dad, he's cool with your friends, shares books, and he drops the n word.

to cut to the chase -- does it seem that the pope actually endorsed kim davis's actions or did he just meet with her and her followers/exploiters are spinning it that way?

― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 8:39 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the only statement from a party thats not kim davis or her retarded lawyers is the vatican confirming that they had a meeting

although the pope and his handlers should be smart enough to know that even a meeting w/ the pope will be construed as a kind of endorsement and so perhaps they meant it to appear that way. who knows...

i mean a meeting with this particular person. obviously a meeting w/, say, castro or putin isn't necessarily going to be spun that way by most folks.

maybe speculating too far here, but it also occurred to me that the meeting with Davis might have also included others and that the Pope might not have even necessarily known he was specifically meeting with her, and/or may not have known who she was in advance.

I would totally not put it past some well-connected GOP heavy to invite Davis to a meeting and pull a fast one in that way

so basically it's like this, only instead of selling a cell phone they're selling "kim davis, champion of personal liberty"

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/04/02/david-ortiz-selfie-distributed-with-help-samsung/s2tU35cVQJYMeI6FMXspOJ/story.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/30/444671535/kim-davis-and-pope-francis-reportedly-had-a-private-meeting-in-dc

"On his flight back to Rome, the pope was asked during a press conference if he would support government officials who say they cannot in good conscience discharge their duties — for example, issuing same sex marriage licenses.

"Without referring to Kim Davis, the pope said conscientious objection is a right that is part of every human right."

except she is not that

http://www.cruxnow.com/papal-visit/2015/09/30/what-it-means-that-pope-francis-met-kim-davis/

except she is not that

― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius),

a human?

Lol

that cruxnow.com article i posted is more or less telling francis' liberal american fans to suck it up a deal, he's still a pope:

Taken together with his unscheduled stop to see the Little Sisters of the Poor, the Davis encounter means Francis has expressed personal support to leading symbols of the two most contentious fronts in America’s religious freedom debates – the contraception mandates imposed by the Obama administration, and conscientious objection on gay marriage.

but charles pierce speculates that the ratzingerites set him up:

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a38440/pope-francis-swindled-kim-davis-meeting/

Why so much hand-wringing? He's a Catholic, these views are hardly a surprise, and he can be on the progressive side of some issues while being on the conservative side on others.

Easy article to write. "Does the pope shit in the woods?"

It doesn't surprise me that Francis would be against same-sex marriage, but it doesn't seem like he's so invested in the cause that he would make a special point to meet with a politically divisive (and non-Catholic!) gay-marriage opponent. Agree with Pierce that there's something weird and sneaky about it.

it's so strange to me that dogma that were originally derived by clearly tribal goals of expanding the tribe's population - no birth control, no abortion, no homos - are still clung to in the modern era. Given that all of them are based (afaik) on interpretations of Old Testament directives that the majority of Jews have long since abandoned. Like, isn't it obvious there are enough people in the world? the risk of Xtians running out of Xtians is pretty low... and yet this is third-rail type stuff for the clergy that can in no way be abandoned or put up for debate, ever (even though the Jewish tradition has a loooooooong history of doing exactly that with the very same source material)

derived FROM arggh

I think you're touching on the reason there: the animus against gays is first and foremost a deeply tribal response, and then they're just using doctrine and other reasons (increasing population) to justify it.

also the bible is the word of goddamn god and if you start to pick it apart youre left with anarchy and moral relativism

Try those arguments on a Catholic and you'll get nowhere, because you'd be omitting what they consider to be the first and most important principle: God wills it.

i have to admit that part of me has a certain respect for the pope for trolling his liberal fans by capping his visit w/ a meeting w/ kim davis. the other part of me wants to throw up.

Try those arguments on a Catholic and you'll get nowhere, because you'd be omitting what they consider to be the first and most important principle: God wills it.

― Aimless, Thursday, October 1, 2015 1:14 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

except most lay catholics in the USA have more liberal positions on those issues than the Church...

Many lay Catholics in the USA are notably apt to resemble Unitarians. Not that that's a bad thing.

Old Testament directives that the majority of Jews have long since abandoned

Eh this is a simplistic way to put it. It's not like for religion it's all or nothing for everybody. Maybe people like Kim Davis. But I think there's a tradition of ideas and concepts evolving. I'm reading some mainstream Rabbinic studies and there is a lot about evolving, realizing these things were written down in a historical context. Faith in a God that is still kind of mysterious and yet you respect enough (believe in) to allow for Him to have multiple viewpoints. Not an inflexible tyrant.

They still follow some laws, they have long since thrown out others. There is a sense that one can learn from the bad laws as well as the good laws. Is this a concept explored in Catholicism at all?

What each individual person believes in should be their own choice. To me that is the ultimate religious freedom. It isn't an acceptable view in corporate Christianity though. Not from the way evangelical politicians and figureheads portray it. It is about bowing down to a dusty and unchanging book. It's about self victimization and self glorification.

If you question the party line you are attacking their religion which only fuels their victimization. To have a non-normcore belief in Christ or the Bible and express that is to enter a shouting match and they are the first ones to claim God's authority.

The GOP say they love small businesses and their policies support violence towards the poor. It makes sense they embrace evangelical Christianity. The main defining ritual is drinking of blood of a small business owner. The main identifier is a device of state torture and capital punishment.

I see it as two separate religions. One contemplates the moral and philosophical underpinnings of these ancient writings. Another says there is only one way to interpret this stuff. This includes atheists who paint certain religions as "morally" bad or evil.

In the end people do the things they do. They will blame it on a book or on a king or on their boss or anyone but themselves.

If the pope wants to be posi to a hater that is probably for the best anyways. Like Doctor Who showing mercy to the Dalek, maybe she will see the light too one day.

It's funny, people being upset that the Pope isn't telling people what to do. Oh, he's just being nice to everyone! Oh!

I'm reading some mainstream Rabbinic studies and there is a lot about evolving, realizing these things were written down in a historical context. Faith in a God that is still kind of mysterious and yet you respect enough (believe in) to allow for Him to have multiple viewpoints. Not an inflexible tyrant.

They still follow some laws, they have long since thrown out others. There is a sense that one can learn from the bad laws as well as the good laws.

I was simplifying but yes this is absolutely what I was referring to, this tradition of examination and refinement in Jewish theology

One contemplates the moral and philosophical underpinnings of these ancient writings. Another says there is only one way to interpret this stuff.

also agree with this and in the latter case it would seem that that position is a direct result of being such a hierarchical, centralized organization dedicated to preserving (above all else) it's own authority

They still follow some laws, they have long since thrown out others. There is a sense that one can learn from the bad laws as well as the good laws.

buffet Catholicism in a nutshell

latin christianity is highly legalistic and emerges from a history of vast mutli-ethnic administration where to large extent it was the only extant source of authority or literacy

the same seems true of islam to some extent

eehhhhh Islam is not like Catholicism in some really basic and obvious ways

i mean most major religions are strongly political in that fashion, i guess.... the sharp distinction between secular and ecclesiastical authority is a pretty recent development in human history.

well islam isn't (now) centralized in the same fashion obviously

yeah that's the biggie. also the shi'a/sunni split (I guess the eastern orthodox church split is kinda analogous, except the EO church is tiny by comparison)

it wasn't when the split happened!

i don't even think the sunni/shia split is analagous; both trace their origin to an event that happened within the founding generation of islam but a separate shia consciousness only emerged as part of the islamicization of persia a few centuries later (look i'm no islamic historian tho obv!), it's a different kind of difference.

the great schism has, like, a date on it.

i mean most major religions are strongly political in that fashion, i guess.... the sharp distinction between secular and ecclesiastical authority is a pretty recent development in human history.

― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, October 1, 2015 3:07 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm it's kind of in their blood. Main difference maybe being a thousand years ago we couldn't conceive of a ruling class that did not invoke ecclesiastical authority. Now we can imagine it even if it's still not come true.

I guess being rich or on TV is the new form of Indulgences.

but charles pierce speculates that the ratzingerites set him up:

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a38440/pope-francis-swindled-kim-davis-meeting/

― goole, Thursday, October 1, 2015 3:16 PM (7 hours ago)

yeah this seems pretty plausible to me

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/3728-the-pope-s-movie-picks

no bunuel though

lotta splainin itt

Vatican denies meeting was an endorsement. "We like to keep it surprising. We're not your father's Vatican."

just to clarify there are significantly more eastern orthodox christians that shia muslims, maybe twice as many

*than shia

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/europe/pope-francis-kim-davis-meeting.html?_r=0

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis’ encounter with Kim Davis last week in Washington, which was interpreted by many as a subtle intervention in the United States’ same-sex marriage debate, was part of a series of meetings with dozens of guests and did not amount to an endorsement of her views, the Vatican said on Friday.

Ms. Davis — the Rowan County, Ky., clerk who defied a judge’s order and refused to grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples — was among the guests ushered into the Vatican’s embassy for a brief meeting with him, the Vatican said.

“The pope did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis, and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects,” the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said in a statement released on Friday morning.

Ms. Davis’s case has become a focal point in the debate over the tensions between religious liberty and marriage equality in the United States. Her lawyer said in a telephone interview on Friday morning that a church official had initiated the meeting and that he had been told it was at the request of Pope Francis.

Father Lombardi, in his statement, played down the meeting and said it had been arranged by the Nunciature, the Vatican Embassy, in Washington.

“Pope Francis met with several dozen persons who had been invited by the Nunciature to greet him as he prepared to leave Washington for New York City,” Father Lombardi said.

lmao this is so great. "persons."

whoah really ogmor? I had no idea. where are the big population centers that outdo Iran?

cool pope - "the bitch set me up"

really really cannot work out why so many otherwise normal-thinking ppl seem so invested in the idea of ~cool pope just bc he seems incrementally more progressive on select issues than the usual pathologic evil of the institution he heads (and on many other ways perpetuates that evil just fine)

and then, they run hospitals and feed the poor sometimes too

wow so life is complicated eh?

yeah, about 3% of contemporary pop music isn't utter shit, too

next time Barack Obama makes incremental changes to immigration or prison reform, I'll be sure to blast The Weeknd in your face.

heheh

that's uncalled for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SND3v0i9uhE

You cut the concealer of pedophiles more slack for his good work than the sociopathic president. I always have fun pointing it out.

and then, they run hospitals

Yes, quite.

http://thehumanist.com/commentary/catholic-hospitals-and-the-denial-of-care

Oh, wait, you said "run," not "ruin."

there's a spectrum of shitty-to-admirable deeds in all kinds of institutions

don't let me ruin your hard-on, though

"really really cannot work out why so many otherwise normal-thinking ppl seem so invested in the idea of ~cool pope just bc he seems incrementally more progressive on select issues than the usual pathologic evil of the institution he heads (and on many other ways perpetuates that evil just fine)"

i'm with the lex, fuck the pope. a billion dollar industry built on blood is never cool no matter how many italian prog rockers you hang out with.

built on blood

starts as wine though, it's a hell of a trick

the idea that catholicism as an institution is "evil," end of story, is some embarrassingly sophomoric dawkins level shit imo

idk hundreds of years of genocide, racism, antisemitism, mind-boggling corruption, pedophilia ... the list is pretty long

I mean I'm kind of at a loss for a worse institution, just in terms of scope and scale

i think institutions can grow + evolve but there's a strong case that the church has not been a force of good in history

^^^

the USA? xxp

oh come on the Catholic Church is over a thousand years old. The US is barely over 200 years old and even there the best comparison case is the British Empire, and their collective evils eclipse ours by a considerable margin imo.

Church was good/critical for preserving various Greek/Roman writings, that's kind of the best thing I can credit them with.

Easy to blame it all on Catholic Church but you have to remember there was no separation of church and state. You could blame it on feudalistic society, mass illiteracy, mass malnutrition, or the time honored tradition of the rich plundering natural resources and funding wars but no easy to just blame it all on the church.

yeah you could blame the church inquisition for murdering all those people because they wouldn't worship jesus but doesn't it make more sense to blame the rich?

you're compressing an awful lot there

xxp

like where things were guided by theology it seems pretty clear the church was to blame

Intimidation tactics, xenophobia, state murder, etc. church inquisition still going on in the name of fighting Terror, an emotion, in our secular wonderland.

the catholic church has historically done some pretty awful things, but tbh the world in general was a pretty horrific, brutal, amoral place during the era of e.g. the crusades, the inquisition, et al, and i doubt any church or institution given that level of power would have been "a force of good." i think it's possible to separate the modern church from the church of the 12th century.

No theology in witch hunting, just extremist identity politics. Stamping out the gay, minority, and disabled. Even the official guides and manuals produced by inquisitors failed to connect most of the stories or folk tales to anything written in the Bible.

There might be something to that. The Inquisition was really kind of a proto-nationalist thing.

You're throwing out a lot of disconnected stuff Adam so idk where to start - maybe with the simplest, most straightforward one: the Catholic Church blamed the Jews for murdering Jesus based on the story of the crucifixion as it was laid down in the Gospels (which were explicitly written as a political repudiation of the Jewish authorities of the time). There's a very clear line between that theological justification for antisemitism and the Inquisition.

xp

Our notions of what is "good" and what we expect from churches and governments are pretty new, people.

but sure there was def a nationalist element to expelling the Muslims from Andalucia etc., and the Muslims had been treating the Jews pretty well so it was kind of a "let's get rid of all of them" thing

xp

fair enough Alfred, but should we refrain from judging institutions of the past then? Particularly in cases where the institutions are still with us?

Easy to blame it all on Catholic Church but you have to remember there was no separation of church and state.

yes there was

oh lord count me out of thus dumb argument

adam you need to take a seat

During the High Middle Ages the Church educated princes and lords, preserved ancient art, paid for petty wars, and its lowest administrative levels attended to the spiritual plight of their flock because their earthly one was miserable.

xp

Eh it's pretty clear even in the KJV that Pilate was threatening the Jewish lawmakers to take the heat in that whole scenario. In that case it is clearly a matter of state coercion on behalf of the Roman (not Christian) empire.

...

yr scholarship is lacking

read Elaine Pagels idk

Adam.

like hmm would there possibly be reasons for the writers of the gospels to suck up to the Roman Empire while vilifying Jews, hmmmmmm

That is what I am saying.

will no one rid me of this troublesome poster

I will check out Pagels thanks. Clearly I have stumbled into a chamber of brilliant theologians and have much to learn.

ok let me spell it out for you - the WRITERS of the Gospels were living under Roman oppression, and if they were going to go around spreading their new theology it was in their best interests to maybe not anger the Roman authorities by calling them out as having murdered God. Which would result in them quickly being suppressed, exterminated etc. And besides, the early Xtians real enemies were not the Romans, they were the Jewish authorities that they were disagreeing with/splitting off from. So they had a vested interest in making the Jews look bad - here was an institutional enemy that was, not coincidentally, also a problem for the ruling authorities. Ergo concoct a version of events where the murder of Jesus at the hands of the Romans is actually the fault of the Jews. When Pilate is threatening the Jewish lawmakers to take the blame in the Gospels, this is the early Christians' way of explicitly implicating their enemies - the Jews - in an execution that is carried out by the Romans, the state. Anti-semitism is at the core of this story, it's a foundational element of the way it's constructed.

xp

this explains why Pilate repeatedly asks the Jews about who he should execute, the hand-washing, etc. The early gospel writers wanted to largely absolve Pilate and instead vilify the Pharisees. It was constructed to gain converts and strip congregants from the Jewish population by showing how evil and corrupt the Jewish authorities of the time were. "Look at how evil they are, they murdered our Prince! Come join us and live for eternity in Heaven!" It's a propaganda ploy.

this amazon review of The Origin of Satan is beautiful:

The book itself is well written in sequence, but instead of more religious facts it was the author describing her point of view and beliefs on the matter.

classic

pet peeve of mine: people who treat "early christians" as if they're a monolithic entity. in fact there were a number of deep divisions among the early christians (a time period that, i would like to point out, spanned some 300 years), and there were a number of diverse opinions among those followers. if you look at the most important of the early christian writers, paul- here's someone who personally identified as a jew, albeit more religiously than ethnically (as he was culturally hellenized). the major debates he was dealing with in the early christian community was stuff like whether you could be a christian without having to be circumcised, which was kind of a big stumbling block for a lot of male pagans.

the thing with anti-semitism actually is pretty closely linked, historically, to their relationship with roman religion. the thing of it here is, romans didn't really care what you believed or did as long as you sacrificed to the civic gods. now, the jews could to an extent get away with this because the romans respected the antiquity of their religious tradition, although frankly this respect had its limits given the way the romans burned the second temple to the ground and essentially demolished them as a people. the issue is that a lot of early christians wanted to be given the same sort of respect because they were like, yeah, that's our religion, and the actual jews were like, no you're not, you worship that weird messiah who got himself killed, that's not real judaism. which explains why there's so much crap in the gospels about how jesus came to fulfill the law, etc, blah blah- because judaism was super important to them.

anyway, anti-semitism sort of developed out of this rift which grew wider over the years. nothing to do with sucking up to the romans, which i mean given that the entire apocalypse of john is an extremely thinly veiled condemnation of rome doesn't strike me as being terribly plausible.

which i mean given that the entire apocalypse of john is an extremely thinly veiled condemnation of rome doesn't strike me as being terribly plausible.

not written at the same time or by the same authors as the four Gospels btw

and I was not trying to gloss over the multiplicity of early Christianity, I was addressing a very specific issue (antisemitism), which was historically justified by some very specific texts (the four Gospels, although it should be noted they are also not identical on this particular issue), and a very particular event described therein (Pilate implicating the Jews' in Jesus' execution) - which was subsequently explicitly used as theological justifications for the Inquisition.

Obviously the tangled roots of antisemitism on the whole - in Europe, on the part of the Catholic Church etc. - is a much broader and more complex issue. But I was trying to simplify things for Adam, who seemed confused.

i don't really care about this general debate but since we're talking about early christian antisemitism it bothers me that 'good samaritan' as a term for a helpful bystander is so ubiquitous since the story it comes from is pretty obviously intended to defame contemporaneous cohanim + levites at the expense of a splinter heresy

"pretty obviously intended to defame contemporaneous cohanim + levites at the expense of a splinter heresy"

i hate it when this happens.

hey, my people are stuck with "paddy wagon"

Thanks all for the discussion. My main point was these are more complex issues deserving of a more nuanced approach which is kind of where everyone is at anyways. Sorry if I drove the thread into a ditch, as I often do =)

to be fair, all my ideas about christianity come from horror movies and heavy metal. i wasn't raised by christians, so. it's all kinda spooky and weird to me.

i like church music! i listen to a lot of ancient stuff. lotsa organ records. choirs. all that jazz.

the newer stuff is awful, though

yeah you make a good point- one of the issues of christianity is that christian texts have p. much always been read interpretively and frequently this involves reading them in ways very much not intended by the original writers. this is both a strength and a weakness of the texts- they're ambiguous enough to be applicable to nearly any time or place in which one might find oneself, but that same flexibility lets anybody open the door to saying things like "hey, you know, the bible says the jews are evil, we should probably kill them all". this also goes a long way to explaining why the catholic church in the middle ages spent significant effort to keep people from reading the bible- it wasn't just that they were trying to keep people subservient and ignorant, it was that they knew going around following the bible above all else could lead to some pretty terrible stuff.

well that and they wanted to preserve their role as ultimate authority

as usual, cui bono? is always a useful question to ask in these kinds of scenarios

oh wait I see you covered that lol never mind

xxp keeping those middle age mels at bay

jesus, don't ask bono, we'll be here all day.

it wasn't just that they were trying to keep people subservient and ignorant, it was that they knew going around following the bible above all else could lead to some pretty terrible stuff.

Following the Bible above all else could lead to some amazing stuff too like pacifism, egalitarianism, social reform, etc. In medieval times nonconformist sects, pacifists, anarchists, and radical Christians like The Diggers, the Flagellants, the Anabaptists, and the long history of peasant revolts, all found inspiration in the book and were seen as a threat. Social reform and egalitarianism were probably terrible things to the people in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peasant_revolts

Ball was imprisoned in Maidstone, Kent, at the time of the 1381 Revolt. What is recorded of his adult life comes from hostile sources emanating from the established religious and political social order. He is said to have gained considerable fame as a roving preacher—a "hedge priest" without a parish or any link to the established order—by expounding the doctrines of John Wycliffe, and especially by his insistence on social equality. He delivered radical sermons in many places, including: Ashen, Billericay, Bocking, Braintree, Cressing Temple, Dedham, Coggeshall, Fobbing, Goldhanger, Great Baddow, Little Henny, Stisted and Waltham.

His utterances brought him into conflict with Simon of Sudbury, Archbishop of Canterbury, and he was thrown in prison on several occasions. He also appears to have been excommunicated; owing to which, in 1366 it was forbidden for anyone to hear him preach. These measures, however, did not moderate his opinions, nor diminish his popularity. He took to speaking to parishioners in churchyards after the official services in English, the "common tongue", not the Latin of the clergy, a radical political move. Ball was "using the bible against the church", very threatening to the status quo.

Shortly after the Peasants' Revolt began, Ball was released by the Kentish rebels from his prison.[3] He preached to them at Blackheath (the revolting peasants' rendezvous to the south of Greenwich) in an open-air sermon that included the following:

When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman? From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bond, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty.

When the rebels had dispersed, Ball was taken prisoner at Coventry, given a trial in which, unlike most, he was permitted to speak. He was hanged, drawn and quartered at St Albans in the presence of King Richard II on 15 July 1381. His head was displayed stuck on a pike on London Bridge, and the quarters of his body were displayed at four different towns.[2] Ball, who was called by Froissart "the mad priest of Kent," seems to have possessed the gift of rhyme. He voiced the feelings of a section of the discontented lower orders of society at that time,[3] who chafed at villeinage and the lords' rights of unpaid labour, or corvée.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ball_(priest)

Οὖτις there's no big surprise really; the vast majority of eastern orthodox people are in russia, former soviet states and surrounding bits of europe and the middle east, but that's a lot of people. there are considerably more protestants than orthodox christians as well, but goole was specifically talking about latin christianity

god, those peasants are revolting!

i've been starting to really dig into eastern orthodoxy lately, and it has some pretty striking historical differences from roman catholicism. eastern orthodoxy didn't get thomas aquinas and scholasticism in about the 12th century like the western church did, so has less of an intellectual bent and more of a mystical bent. a guy like rasputin, for instance, simply could not have come out of the roman catholic church. one of the long-term consequences seems to be that the orthodox church in russia was and is subservient to the state in a way that would be unthinkable in the western tradition, where religious beliefs regularly surfaced as a challenge to temporal authority. dostoevsky's religion, for instance, manifested itself as obeisance to the state in a way that probably wouldn't happen in western europe. my understanding is still rather primitive and these are tentative thoughts.

as for the radical revolts, sure, they led to some good stuff, but most of the reformers, particularly in the first protestant era, had far from unblemished records. luther's revolution got out of hand rapidly and it didn't take long for him to start burning people like jan hus at the stake for advocating freedom of religion. there's also the sad, bizarre story of john lydon and the anabaptist muenster rebellion of 1534. though there have been plenty of organized persecutions against oppressed peoples, most pogroms tend to be populist undertakings.

lotta splainin itt

https://33.media.tumblr.com/237659ad0c7c43ffdb2b2bca5d3bad86/tumblr_nvm25juWtP1rezhn9o1_400.gif

Dale Martin's Yale course (on iTunes U too I think) is (afaict) a v good intro to the historical situation of each of the gospels & the NT epistles - Martin's engaging, good at taking you through the developing relationship between judaism & its factions, the roman (+ ~hellenic) political-cultural forces, and this odd sect that's coming through.

early modern pedantry: diggers and anabaptists aren't medieval.

good maron alternative. ty

i don't really care about this general debate but since we're talking about early christian antisemitism it bothers me that 'good samaritan' as a term for a helpful bystander is so ubiquitous since the story it comes from is pretty obviously intended to defame contemporaneous cohanim + levites at the expense of a splinter heresy

― Mordy, Friday, October 2, 2015 4:03 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

?? pretty obviously meant to tell you that elites are often bad and weirdos and exiles can be good

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

interpretations differ across christian history but the basic understanding of "don't pay much attn to existing social hierarchies, look at what people do" is right there p much

if there's one thing i've learned from two millennia of christianity it's that obvious interpretations of scripture aren't.

the story means many things but one of those things is undeniably a broadside against jewish religious life [in the second temple era]. the subtext is that you'd expect men of holy castes like the kahunnah or a levite to be charitable but they are too wrapped up in their dogma + laws + stringencies. they aren't just members of a social hierarchy - they were the priests of the second temple. i think it needs to be read in the context of replacement theology in general.

the most reactionary Red Beanies declare war on Il Papa

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a40282/pope-francis-fight-catholic-soul/

http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/opposition-pope-francis-comes-out-closet

Pope Francis denounces transgender people as ‘annihilation of man’

Well, fuck. Alright, Frankie, fuck you. You had me going for a while.

that gif of the pope doing the tablecloth trick tho

From the google translation of the q&a:

There is a whole reform, which should be taken at the global level, with respect to this commitment, acceptance of immigrants. But it is a matter of relative: the absolute heart is open to receive. That is absolute! With prayers, intercession to do what I can. The relative is the way I can do this: not everyone can do it in the same way. But the problem is global! Exploitation of creation and exploitation of people. We celebrate the event of the destruction of man as the image of God.

And I would like to conclude this aspect, because it conceals it behind him ideologies. In Europe, in America, in Latin America, in Africa, in some Asian countries there is a real ideological colonization. One of them - I say this clearly from the "name" - is gender! Today, children in school - just kids! - Taught in school: that everyone can choose their gender. And why do they teach? Since textbooks impose those individuals and institutions that give money. This is the ideological colonization, supported also by the very influential countries. And it's terrible. When I talked with Pope Benedict, who is doing well and has a bright idea, he told me: "Your Holiness, this era of sin against God the Creator." That's clever! God created man and woman; God created the world in such a concrete way, and we do the opposite. God has given us the state of the "original", we made it culture; and then from this culture we do things that lead us to the "original". The words spoken by Benedict XVI should prompt us to think: "This is the era of sin against God the Creator." This reflection will help us.

Cant believe the pope isnt ilx tho

A bit of reformist lip service on twitter and a shit album seemed to give some people the impression that he isn't the pope.

Yeah!

omg this story.

what what?

in the butt

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/07/05/vatican-police-discover-drug-fueled-gay-orgy-in-apartment-of-cardinal-who-advises-pope-francis/

I love how they have picked the most Up The Arse corner pictures of Pope Francis for this piece!

Cops raided the apartment in late June after neighbors voiced concern about multiple people acting strangely while streaming in and out of the residence, the newspaper reported Wednesday.

Once police were inside the apartment, they said they found multiple men engaged in rampant drug use and homosexual activity.

They then arrested the priest — an aide to one of Pope Francis’ key advisers — after taking him to a clinic to detox from the drugs he’d ingested.

The unnamed aide is now on a spiritual retreat in a convent in Italy, the paper said.

http://nypost.com/2017/07/05/vatican-cops-bust-drug-fueled-gay-orgy-at-cardinals-apartment/

a spiritual retreat with booze and boyz

vatican chemsex is my new band name

Haha! May I steal that?

I mean not as a band name just a status update.

steal away

Ta

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/europe/vatican-us-catholic-conservatives.html

francis is pretty cool

inevitable casting, no?

Fernando Meirelles (City of God) will “direct an untitled film centered on the relationship between Pope Benedict and Pope Francis” for Netflix. “Benedict will be played by Anthony Hopkins and Francis will be played by Jonathan Pryce.”

Hannibal Lecter good choice for the Rottweiler, too

yay catholic fanfic

single-layer 'crowds' along most of the route today afaict

didn't stop rte livecasting it the entire day

this cunt can only dream of the crowds saint John Paul II could get, no twitter in them days but 8m ppl at York racecourse in '82!

his altar technique couldn't be fucked with!

nobody had the heart to tell him the 80k at croker were only there for daniel

this cunt can only dream of the crowds saint John Paul II could get, no twitter in them days but 8m ppl at York racecourse in '82!

There's not 8 million Catholics in England, let alone York Racecourse.

Are there even 8 million Englanders?

lol

John Paul II was pure evil, though. He was the Reagan of the modern papacy, standing by as hundreds of thousands of people died of AIDS. Francis is at least marginally better

sorry I meant to say 8 million homemade Welcome Pope JP II flags, a rumour was spreading around at the the time for every extra flag you brought to the gig, you get a year in purgatory knocked off .

It's hilarious how few left footers there are in England - it must be one of the Proddiest countries on Earth, and that's despite Manchester and Liverpool.

Francis is at least marginally better

it's quite a bit more than marginal.

Indeed, and not a Nazi too, which is always a bonus.

"it's quite a bit more than marginal."

yes agree

Speer was a marginally less bad Nazi, eh Jed?

my then-gf of six or so years cried all night when jpii popped em the relationship was doomed for many reasons at that point but it was another stark pointer tbh

than who? xp

People that are impressed by popes - whatever their fucking game is- make we really want to cry tbh!

"then cry all you want, I won't tell anybody"

I'm just being honest Jed, it genuinely depresses the fuck out of me, I'm not trying to be catholic edgelord here.

Cal, it's not something I'm invested in, hugely! It seems that Francis is a better man, by several orders of magnitude, than any other pope in living history and maybe ever.

but I'm absolutely open to being corrected.

I think John XXIII was also ok (for his time)

nick blinko is best pope

admittedly, a pretender

lol

Overdue for first Jewish pope imho

was listening to an amusing R4 report where some old Irish guy was at first complaining that after waiting for hours, Pope Franny's pope-mobile just whizzed past him in a few seconds and said he'd been told "he was going to be moving a bit slower than that". But then said "to see his smile made my day" and made it a completely worthwhile experience.

This 11 second video has made the pope's visit worthwhile. pic.twitter.com/BWzvb7SABr

— Craig James Connolly (@Craig5thFloor) August 26, 2018

Overdue for first Jewish pope imho

― faculty w1fe (silby)

what, peter doesn't count?

I agree with Jed.

I think this must be the best Pope ever.

The best video of 2019 arrived during the last minutes of 2019, maybe. #PopeFrancis #Pope #hand
pic.twitter.com/LWZ6z2fzfy

— Antonello Guerrera (@antoguerrera) January 1, 2020

bit of a papal tantrum sir? ooh not nice!

lucky she didnt get a rifle butt tbf

Slapped wrists all round.

The Pissy Pope

still I can see being annoyed by many of Jesus' followers

The Church is bringing out the heavy weaponry now; this miraculous plague crucifix is being brought to the Vatican https://t.co/E1ZXjajSC7

— Dr Francis Young (@DrFrancisYoung) March 26, 2020

human to miraculous-plague-crucifix ratio has been running too high for too long

start cranking these things out now imo

why aren't they manufacturing more of these things?

Pope needs to advise which patron saint is the one we should be banging down the door of - hopefully not Jude (hopeless causes). Is there a patron saint of disease or plague?

Oh, ok, St Roch is our man:

Invoked against: cholera, epidemics, knee problems, plague, skin diseases. Patron Saint of: bachelors, diseased cattle, dogs, falsely accused people, invalids, Istanbul, surgeons, tile-makers, gravediggers, second-hand dealers, pilgrims, apothecaries, Catholic Diocese of Kalookan

cheer up goth

When we are in a state of sin, we are like "human bats" who can move about only at night. We find it easier to live in darkness because the light reveals to us what we do not want to see. But then our eyes grow accustomed to darkness and we no longer recognize the light.

— Pope Francis (@Pontifex) April 22, 2020

tl;dr: Corona - sinful human bats did it, to the rhythm of the night.

What is it like to be a human bat

Well now

The pleasures of a well-cooked meal or loving sexual intercourse are "divine" Pope Francis says in a newly-published book of interviews.https://t.co/u6Mso7CrAZ

— RTÉ News (@rtenews) September 9, 2020

Seems good?

Pope Francis calls for civil union laws for same-sex couples https://t.co/Gv7KDM1fqP

— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) October 21, 2020

The pope gave an interview to the filmmaker, Evgeny Afineevsky, saying that “homosexuals have a right to be a part of the family.”
“They’re children of God and have a right to a family,” the pope said. “Nobody should be thrown out, or be made miserable because of it.”

has rod dreher commented on this y/n

Rod Dreher already ditched catholicism for not being conservative enough and is now orthodox.

This does seem good, but notable that it's just something he's said off the cuff to a documentarian, and not something that he has said in a formal statement.

I also worry that the next pontiff will be more conservative than Bergoglio

I worry he'll be more conservative than Ratzinger.

there's a difference between homosexual acts and homosexual relationships which is always going to be unresolved in this context

This does seem good, but notable that it's just something he's said off the cuff to a documentarian, and not something that he has said in a formal statement.

https://catholicherald.co.uk/pope-francis-rants-against-delinquent-priests-who-withhold-absolution-2/

Priests should grant absolution in the confessional even when the penitent has no intention to repent, the Pope has said in a speech which has shocked seminarians.

The Holy Father put aside a written speech, describing it as “boring”, and delivered an off-the-cuff address to seminarians from Barcelona, Spain, in which he frequently used foul language.

...

According to reports, Francis also used his speech to rant against “f***ing careerists who f*** up the lives of others”.

The Pope also criticised “those who climb to show their a**”, the Italian media outlet Daily Compass reported.

hahahaha, WHAT?

the pope said "fuck" in his speech? 2023 is looking up

this is the day he finally became pope