The Lysergic Acid Diethylamidiotic Joe Biden & Sarah Palin VP Presidential Debate thread in the 2 zero zero 8 (2008 party over oops)

No rebuttals? lol

Needs shorter thread title.

lol fdr went on tv during the great depression lol

suggestions for drinking game words plz

wassila
putin
FDR

no drinking. that's in "take a tab" for every...

"literally"

Because I want all of you to be brain damaged for life after this debate because due to the nature of the debate, that's inevitable anyway

Symmetry required...

Where is Z S?

http://i37.tinypic.com/fxqjon.jpg

Great, now this'll be 600 posts before the debate even happens.

Important Tactic: DON'T Let Bartlett Be Bartlett. Nobody will be watching Biden unless he says something idiotic, and Palin can beat herself; he just needs to show up and say words no one will remember.

I will be doing a series of ritual spirit-dances to keep Biden from saying anything dumb, and I hope you will all join me.

dude's gonna gaffe big time, i can feel it

haha, like it isn't already 1000+ before the debate on another thread

nabisco, learn us the ritual dance

re Vogue cover: Palin looks like Tina Fey imitating Kate Bush.

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/L/H/2/sarahpalinelainebenes.gif

You kinda shuffle around like a Welsh miner, then mime washing your face and mouth area to make yourself clean and articulate, and then you do sort of a Rooseveltian wheelchair motion

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080924200720AADwLMH

"john stuart"

i can't wait for sarah palin to coherently explain the official republican position on the bailout plan.

http://image015.mylivepage.com/chunk15/94915/100/putin.gif

There's a Journey: Escape - The Video Game quality to the dancing Putin.

i have class on thursday night ;_________;

wassila
putin
FDR

Don't forget "mavericks" -- because although it seems that Palin knows nothing of McCain's legislative record or his views on any given subject, she does know that he's a maverick.

haha, I'll be at the second MBV show in L.A. Thursday night.

I think Ned said on another thread that the debate should be the visual backdrop for the You Made Me Realise bridge.

GUYS IS THIS GOING TO PRE-EMPT THE OFFICE Y/N?!?!?

x-post -- It'll be at the same level of coherency.

Y :(

just pretend it's the office

Gm 2 LAD @ CHC Thu Oct. 2 - 9:30 PM - TBS

haha, I'll be at the second MBV show in L.A. Thursday night.

I think Ned said on another thread that the debate should be the visual backdrop for the You Made Me Realise bridge.

so it's up to an ocd cross between "the dude" in the big lebowski and brian wilson to save the world? hey, i guess difficult times call for extreme measures...

i have an anatomy test the next morning >:(

She does have a Betty Rubble vibe.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2008/09/bedrock.php

I forget who said it and what thread but the "how can someone be so feverish for drilling for fossil fuels not believe in fossils?" line was ace.

http://www.plug-in.to/pix_e/god2.jpg

xpost

yeah, but she somehow manages to combine the obnoxiousness and ethics of barney rubble mated with mr. slate.

it's like a fruity pebbles commercial bursting over into "real life" in a particularly sinister fashion

Palin talks cheesesteak, Pakistan

From CNN.com

...with a T-shirt logo next to it.

heavens ;-)

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/30/mccain-palin-the-next-clinton-or-reagan/

OK, article whatever. It's all about the picture of Palin, as Liquid Metal Android.

http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N43/drinkinggame.html

drinkin

http://images.dmusic.com/v7/emoticons/smashpc.gif

lol rumor

1. Biden savages Sarah in Thurs night's reality show
2. takes heat for being mean
3. steps aside for HillRod

haha wau, that would be mind-melting

countdown to the "PALIN COMPARISON TO BIDEN" punster headlines

eat a sugar cookie every time Palin thanks Gwen Ifill for asking a question, like:

"i'm so glad you asked that, gwen, because it's a very important question"
"you know, that's a very difficult issue that a lot of voters are concerned about so thanks for bringing that up"
"gwen! good question! yeah... it's a good one."

etc etc

Gwen Ifill is this one's moderator? Please tell me Ray Suarez is doing Bam McC #2 so all of America can snore as one.

What, you're not calling him Ray Sueno?

Brokaw's doing #2.

snoring plan works just as well, then

"lol rumor

1. Biden savages Sarah in Thurs night's reality show
2. takes heat for being mean
3. steps aside for HillRod"

Haha I thought Bill Safire retired.

The other rumour involves Biden out due to health problems; obv pure prjection.

Then there's this -- but this would be next week, more's the pity:

http://www.themudflats.net/2008/09/30/troopergate-witness-flips-like-a-pancake/

Gwen Ifill Breaks Ankle, But Still Plans To Meet 'Em In St. Louis

G Ifill.jpg First On TVNewser: PBS' Gwen Ifill has broken her ankle after tripping and falling down stairs at her home last night, a NewsHour insider tells TVNewser. We're told Ifill had been walking up a staircase, carrying research related to her moderating duties at Thursday's Vice Presidential debate in St. Louis, when she took a wrong step.

We are also told the show will go on: Ifill is planning to travel to Missouri for the big event.

never forget 10/10

alas ka

eat a sugar cookie every time Palin thanks Gwen Ifill for asking a question

i am going to put on at least five pounds

anybody know where i can buy some moose paté?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html

If she pulls out the maverick line I'd like to see Biden be like "And I'm... the ice man" and snap his big dentures shut threateningly like Val Kilmer does in that locker room scene.

omg i found it --- at 1:45 in:

that is the most amazing video i've seen in awhile.

COURIC: And when it comes to establishing your world view, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this — to stay informed and to understand the world?

PALIN: I’ve read most of them again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media —

COURIC: But what ones specifically? I’m curious.

PALIN: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.

COURIC: Can you name any of them?

PALIN: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news.

Goddammit, I have to be in my first class of the term that night. I was so looking forward to yelling at the screen with a full theater of drunks.

I may have to skip out.

I know this is mostly reverse psychology, but I'm guessing Palin's not going to be nearly as trainwrecky as before for the debate. I expect her to be more with it, disappointing many and making all the Dems worry again -- even though it will be yet another temporary bounce.

because remember

10/10

Never forget.

making all the Dems worry again

I wouldn't go that far.

oh soooo many Dems are going to worry if Palin isn't a disaster after the debate. come on.

I mean, the worries will go away once October gets into gear, but there's likely gonna be worryin' if Palin doesn't melt down.

(oops sorry for the kinda double post)

remember when everyone was worried abt the McCain bump right after the RNC & Palin's nomination? lol

"music video by chakilmame"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/conservatives.palin/index.html

The adviser said preparing her for the debate was "really hard" because the Alaska governor was learning about issues she had never dealt with before -- including those regarding North Korea and other hot spots around the globe.

oh yeah and

In defense, Republicans say the complaints are coming from "intellectual" conservatives -- not Main Street Republicans, who they insist love the "hockey mom," from Alaska, as Palin describes herself.

http://www.4apuzzle.com/mgcpuzzles/artgallery/Jane_Wooster_Scott/Lithographs/images/summer_main_street_Disney_A.jpg

"McCain picked Sarah Palin in part because she's a talented politician and communicator. He needs to free her to use her political talents and to communicate in her own voice," Kristol wrote.""

Guess it's time for the Times' weekly Kristol fact correction.

hopefully dogers v. cubs is done before this starts!!!

Then there's this -- but this would be next week, more's the pity:

http://www.themudflats.net/2008/09/30/troopergate-witness-flips-like-a-pancake/

Why is there no Dan Lacey - Palin with Pancake picture in the comments to that yet?

Main Street, featuring McCain's long-lost 8th house, or "castle" as it is sometimes known.

You folks are really underestimating Joe's ability to come off like an asshole.

The ballgame is at 9:30 ET, gr80.

oh soooo many Dems are going to worry if Palin isn't a disaster after the debate. come on.

Aside from breaking into glossolalia or audibly farting on stage, what on earth could she possibly do for our cowardly media to do anything other than say she "exceeded expectations" after the debate?

oh noes VP debate moderator is biased:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

I don't think the issue is exceeding expectations anymore.

Yeah, I have an ominous feeling that the left blogosphere and skeptical mainstream media have already been high-fiving each other about how awful she's going to be without considering that precisely what they hate about her is what those who like her find charming- everyone's hastily assuming that if she's an idiot this can only help the Dem side. But if Biden is belligerent and Palin never cracks her "everymom" mask, it could solidify the undecideds against the Dem ticket. Dems have a history of seeming "smug" and losing people even as they "win" debates, and this one is awfully easy to win in the wrong way.

Most of the newspapers have lead with warnings already, so I think the Dems got the message.

I was about to say, it's not that there's no talk about it!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/10/01/gall.debateprep.cnn.jpg

Apparently she was in 23 debates in the Alaskan election and went on to win so she can't be that bad at it. If she makes no major gaffes there will be "Palin Does Surprisingly Well" headlines next day and it will be a "win" for her. But in the end it won't make any difference since VP debates don't really matter. The most famous quip from a VP debate is the "You're no Jack Kennedy" one, and yet Bush/Quayle went on to win.

Apparently she was in 23 debates in the Alaskan election and went on to win so she can't be that bad at it.

Mmmm, there's an awful lot of assumptions to unpack there.

Well, all I'm suggesting is that she's used to the format and did well enough in it not to ruin her chances of winning a state election. At this point, she only has to be OK for it to be a "win".

A good read is here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palindebate1-2008oct01,0,113995.story

god what a jerk:

Palin saved her most devastating riposte for the final question of the debate, when Persily asked the three candidates whether they would hire their opponents for a state job.

Knowles and Halcro offered halting jokes. But when it was Palin's turn, she pounced.

Smiling at Halcro, who recited reams of statistics by rote, Palin observed that the businessman "would make the most awesome statistician the state could ever look for."

As the debate audience laughed, Palin pivoted to Knowles, who had owned an Anchorage restaurant. "Do they need a chef down in Juneau?" Palin asked, smiling as she twisted the verbal knife. "I know Mr. Knowles is really good at that."

What that tells me is that if she tried that approach against Biden -- and there's no reason why not, really -- then it's open season in return. Which could have the effect of it being a draw.

totally get where you're coming from, dr drew, but speaking for myself, while i expect biden to win handily, i'm really just looking forward to the debate for pure entertainment value (secretly expecting the holy spirit to descend upon sarah palin to give her the gift of tongues). It's a long debate and there's plenty of time for both biden and palin to say some really dumb shit, fucking blabbermouths they both are -- and I think that while Biden will be able to point out palin's gaffes, Palin simply won't be able to do the same in return.

And while yes, palin's had some debate experience, she's never debated in front of a national audience -- and the momentary reaction to the debate doesn't matter quite as much as the days following, the aftermath during which everything she said will be parsed and researched and her worst moments will be replayed ad nauseam

it will be interesting to compare palin's debate performance with those couric interviews. everything i've read suggests that "palin is not as bad as you think she is" at debating and don't underestimate her, etc. etc. But i don't have to tell y'all that goddamn she looks like a deer in headlights in those Couric interviews. so what's the variable between a debate and an interview?

I'd like to see Joe Biden on TV!

Should we place odds on her making some "LOL old/senator when i was in 2nd grade" joeks?

this Jay Nordliger douche is making The Corner fantastic reading lately:

Years ago, some Bolshi Democrat — I think it was Ron Dellums — was rising to some important committee position. And Henry Hyde was asked, by some righty (no doubt), “Don’t you think he’s a security risk?” And Hyde answered blithely, “No more than any other Democrat.” (I am paraphrasing — but am very close.)

McCarthyite? Funny? Resigned?

Anyway . . . I’ve thought of Hyde’s remark this morning. People say, “Well, isn’t Gwen Ifill pro-Obama?” And the answer is: “If she is, is she more so than any other suitable MSM big?”

At any rate — no pouting or fretting. Play on

Exceeding expectations won't be good enough for the liberal media elite when expectations are this low. She's running for de facto president, not chair of the PTA.

the tricky thing with Palin is that she is simultaneously intentionally avoiding answering questions with any specifics to avoid making mistakes (or letting on what a fundie nutjob she is/leaving the widest possible room for fundie nutjobs to be sure she's one of them) and helplessly not getting the substance of issues she knows or cares nothing about, and at the margin it's a little tough to figure out which is which

But i don't have to tell y'all that goddamn she looks like a deer in headlights in those Couric interviews.

She does, but check out the Alaska debates on YouTube. She doesn't seem nearly as bad. I doubt if the Couric interview is a good measure of her debating abilities.

the best-case scenario in my mind is biden restraining himself, answering questions genially and calmly, and letting palin zing away without having anything substantive to say

She does, but check out the Alaska debates on YouTube. She doesn't seem nearly as bad

the issues, personalities and audience in Alaska present a far lower bar

the best-case scenario in my mind is biden restraining himself, answering questions genially and calmly, and letting palin zing away without having anything substantive to say

You realize that this scenario is actually a win for Palin, right?

I think the theory there, Dan, is that Palin won't be able to answer basic questions and will hang herself.

But the practice is that the more you allow her to not actually answer questions, the better she comes across.

I think Biden needs to 1) avoid any obvious gaffes and 2) avoid coming off overly aggressive/dismissive of Palin. If he does those two things he can't lose and at this point that's all they need.

I kind of want Biden to keep being super Biden-y, gaffes and all; I don't think Palin is used to dealing with people anywhere near as comfortable in that zone of affable approachable batshittery as she is and the reaction to someone encroaching on what should be her turf has great potential to throw her off her game (IMO).

If nothing else, a more entertaining debate than Bush/Ferraro 1984, I'm sure.

I mainly just think he needs to not get overly combative with Palin. Palin will set her own traps and step in them. Biden just needs to look competent.

did anyone catch 41 and Gerry Ferraro on "The Today Show" this morning?

I actually think it will be fairly dull, because they are both going to try to play it safe and Palin's responses should be scripted enough to avoid the kind of nonsense she spewed during the Couric/Gibson interviews. If there are any questions she doesn't have a script for though, it could get mighty entertaining, but that'll only be for a second or two before she pulls the question back around to something she can talk to.

That said I'm still going to watch just on the off chance of hilarity.

did anyone catch 41 and Gerry Ferraro on "The Today Show" this morning?

I saw parts of it; I was running late for work. Gerry is still kind of mad about Hillary.

Joe Kennedy, OTOH, remains kind of awesome in a crazy drunk uncle way.

Another piece from Halcro:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1001/p09s01-coop.html

Dude's been busy. Rightfully so, though.

Biden needs to look Vice-Presidential, with a good dose of geniality and some memorable righteous anger about the economy thrown in

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IMWFWUgeFg4/SLAzGb6Tn1I/AAAAAAAAAQc/OjplkS1pOkI/s1600-h/biden+done.jpg

so basically doing nabisco's biden-no-gaffes raindance - pretending to be Jamie Noble

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/sotoalf/bidendone.jpg

Debate preview:

Palin: [generic non-answer]
Biden: Was I the only one listening? I thought it reeked!
Palin: No, I believe that's your old man smell lol!!!!!!!!alaska

btw I expect Palin to "win"

u guys pailin is totally gonna make some awesome blunders - GET PSYCHED!

"what do you talk about when you have nothing to say?" = a good line

battle of blunderdome

you guys i'm sooooo worried that the dems are gonna go at this with total hubris (which is sooo them in this election!) and not pay any attention to the judgment of informed people, while palin will impress people by gaining steam over an hour even though she can't seem to say three words without scaring away independent voters. Based on the last month, I have SO MUCH MORE FAITH in the McCain/Palin campaign playing this smartly than the dems.

I get the fear/pessimism, but "based on the last month"?

this is gonna be fucking painful viewing. i'm really torn on whether to watch it with a crowd or just stay home with the volume really low.

in any case, biden i think needs to come off like a knowledgable and patient adult, basically treat it like a conversation with gwen ifill, and some other nitwit showed up and decided to say something.

any word on the physical layout? are they going to be sitting next to each other across a desk from ifill?

I get the fear/pessimism, but "based on the last month"?

Think it through, caek.

head hurts.

oh yes.

v. good.

If Palin turns out to be a Flowers For Algernon type, this would be the best result of them all, just for the general wtf

xp croup - see we can lol now because a lot of Dems WILL worry anyway, even though whatever possible zings and poll bumps Palin/McCain (come on, that's really the ticket, right?) gain, they will decay pretty quickly even well before all those Alaskan death trials to come on Oct 10th.

alternately, I hope Palin totally goes lil Jon.

and U+K lil Jon Palin photoshop kthxby

any word on the physical layout? are they going to be sitting next to each other across a desk from ifill?

Lecterns this time.

I think Palin will do the zingers but she may become emboldened and go just that little bit to far. I think she has more hubris than all the other candidates put together.

(xpost) I think Palin has a win by default, frankly, because she's already more about personality and symbolism than qualifications to people who like her, and people who don't have such abysmal expectations that she can't do much damage. Damage control is the key here.

in any case, biden i think needs to come off like a knowledgable and patient adult, basically treat it like a conversation with gwen ifill, and some other nitwit showed up and decided to say something.

This is pretty OTM. And I think it has to be watched in drinking game mode or it will be too painful.

I usually find Rich Lowry the least repulsive of all the Corner folks, but WTF

Of course, Palin has a lot to bone up on, and there will probably be, even in the best of circumstances, a few things she doesn't know. That's why she needs a straight-forward and/or self-deprecating way to occasionally say, "I don't know." People will be much more forgiving of that than round-about and very transparent attempts to try to talk her way through it, which are much more discrediting. Her potential ace-in-the-hole, of course, is Joe Biden. He'll very likely find a way to be an ass, whether he's confronting her or deferring to her.

it's okay to call the Democratic VP nominee an ass now, guys, FYI

It's only a win for the repubs if they can actually get a bounce, and right now Palin is the least popular of any pres/vp candidate. LEAST. Why do people keep pushing how popular she is? She has a loud fanbase but it's not getting bigger. There is NO REASON to believe more exposure to her will change this. A lack of faith in Biden rocking shit is one thing, but this faith in the repubs to change the game after all that's happened is something can't begin to fathom.

you all are giving the exceeding expectations factor waaay to much credence here. every time palin has opened her mouth shes told a really obvious lie and/or said something undeniably retarded. theres no reason to believe shell be anything other than awful in this debate.

i mean john mccain already "suspended his campaign" just trying to avoid this shit.

"She needs to admit her ignorance!"

Based on all the ph3ar, it seems Biden is going to lose no matter what he does just because he's older and wittier.

I mean what the fuck is wrong with the US? (I know right?)

Also, even when she waffles, Palin has proven to be a very good and subtle liar. This works for Palin on TV, so this is where Biden's performance really matters re: how he will find a way to call her out on her lies. This debate, whether fair or not, is for Biden to lose.

ok what sort of crazy parallel dimension did u just arrive from

She has NOT been a good and subtle liar. Even if you didn't know she was lying when interviewed by Couric, she was shifty, her grammar awful. She sounded like someone caught.

based on how her favorability rating has plummeted from like +30 to -10 since her nomination its likely that she hasnt been doing anything well

I think she has, at base, the non-oily appeal and generator of warm feelings that Mitt Romney has.

Granholm is Palin's stand-in in the debate prep -- and although Granholm is a fairly incompetent governor, I wonder if they will really be able to simulate Palin's dunderheadedness adequately enough to truly prepare Biden.

She's pretty base.

If Granholm just waves the red flag any time he gets near a phrase like "little lady," he'll be fine.

ok what sort of crazy parallel dimension did u just arrive from

There are too many crazy parallel dimensions across the country in this election.

I mean how many "I think McCain's ok, but i REALLY LIKE PALIN OMG!" bursts on TV does it take to get that across? Granted, I don't make it clear which parallel universe POV I speak from disingenuously.

i think you'd feel better if you were paying more attention.

Man, shoulda just gotten Tina Fey to be the stand-in, go for broke.

Palin = Boris Johnson?

I'm pretty confident the Dems have this election, so I'm not all Scanners about this, but don't say I'm not paying attention. There are plenty of people who can outvote me in numbers who are *not* paying attention who are SMITTEN with Palin. This election will likely not be a stampede, even if all polls indicate so.

I'm kinda ignoring polls right now, because polls are less and less accurate as the years go by since they still used the land-line standard.

maybe you should take massive drops in Palin's popularity in polls with a grain of salt rather than ignoring them and freaking out every time you see a fundie wacko yell.

She has a loud fanbase but it's not getting bigger. There is NO REASON to believe more exposure to her will change this.

The concern is not that people will like her more, it's that they will like Biden and hence the Democrats less.

hahaha ned yes

i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin. Which is what it would take for America to like him less than Palin after she's spoken for an hour.

i think we're in an xp helix here, but again, I'm speaking in context of the debate.

I don't think the VP debate will be nearly as exciting or damaging to Palin as most people think. That's all I'm saying. Maybe Palin will melt down. Entirely possible. It's entirely possible Biden will be a total asshole and Palin will shine too.

Who the fuck cares in the end anyway. There isn't much precedent for VP debates changing things.

Palin's popularity is just likely to inch up again, after which a lot of democrats most of which are NOT ON ILX will freak out, that's all I'm claiming.

But that will again be temporary once October gets into gear, when half of the Alaska GOP is thinking about life in a cold dark cell then.

"Shit, Granholm, why didn't you tell him it was bad idea to yell 'LOOK AT DEM PUPPIES!' at her?"

"I thought it was a good tactic. D'oh, we done bad!"

because polls are less and less accurate as the years go by since they still used the land-line standard.

Many but not all:

Riverdale Park, Md.: Which pollsters are being the most creative at tackling the problem of the under-35s being "cell-phone only," and thus hard to reach?

Charles Franklin: A number of pollsters have been including cell only folks for most of the year. Gallup, Pew, CBS/NYT, NBC/WSJ and I think Time. Field in California does as well. It is going to be increasingly common.

(Charles Franklin is with Pollster.com.)

I think election polls will be twittered before they get to the cell-phone stage, frankly.

("just got asked about election. I said I think the erection is alright, lol." - oct 29, 2012)

I like how everyone who is shouting "pay attention!" is conveniently ignoring that Palin did pretty much exactly the same thing in the Alaskan gubernatorial race as she's doing here and that she won that race.

I don't expect her to be particularly impressive or convincing to ME but I've already decided who I'm voting for. Clearly there is still a non-negligible segment of people who aren't convinced by Obama and I don't want a fluffy performance from Palin in the debate to make people feel better about deciding to vote for the crazy old white man.

speaking of crazy old white men

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/07/05/stockdale.jpg

haw

if this debate follows the open-ended format of the presidential debate i think palin's going to get away with murder - it's hard to imagine ifill doing couric-style followup questions

and without those followup questions it's not as easy to see clearly the extent to which she avoids the subject

guys Palin is completely incompetent all this hand-wringing is silly

who would you rather have a beer with? i think biden would be a hoot

guys Palin is completely incompetent all this hand-wringing is silly

Yeah because completely incompetent people never get jobs that they can't do. oh WAIT...

Characterizing speculation about what strategy would be most effective against Palin as "hand-wringing" is even sillier, IMO.

biden would be name-dropping second-tier middle eastern arms dealers while getting up out of his big easy chair for another one, fart, and not even laugh about it because he had just worked around to his main point

I thought it had already been pretty well-established what the best strategy for Biden is: remain calm, don't pounce on any of Palin's gaffes, target McCain

i think palin's going to get away with murder

^^^handwringing

I think "don't pounce on any of Palin's gaffes" is a huge huge huge mistake.

Biden doesn't need to, it will just make him look aggressive. The press will do his work for him.

and also yeah this is just a sideshow - no matter what happens it isn't gonna move polls/votes very far either way

if the debate turns out like couric interview itll hurt mccain

Biden doesn't need to, it will just make him look aggressive. The press will do his work for him.

I'm leaning towards this opinion. The press is running hard with the "you've got to be fucking KIDDING me" narrative re: Palin. I think Biden should debate McCain in absentia rather than engage much with her.

without those followup questions it's not as easy to see clearly the extent to which she avoids the subject

I dunno about this, actually: one of the secret treats of Palin is that even people who know nothing about the issues -- and have no framework for judging whether she's right or wrong or batshit crazy about something -- nevertheless know perfectly well the tone and mannerisms of someone who has no idea what she's doing; everyone's used the metaphor of a middle-schooler doing a book report but he hasn't read the freaking book, and it's true, there are times when you can just hear this in Palin's voice and see it in her eyes, and nobody likes that. So sure, if she's prepped well enough to sound convinced and authoritative about anything she says, maybe she'll be fine -- but if she starts bluffing again, it seems like people can tell that whether or not they're even evaluating the content of what she's saying.

Also yes, this is a total Palin-evaluating show, Biden just needs to sit back politely and say "this is our stance on this issue" and "I'm very glad for the opportunity to talk with Governor Palin" and not attempt any extemporaneous zingers WHATSOEVER. Just stand there and look competent and state the obvious.

lol why don't Democrats like to take people out?

biden should zing away because i love zings and he is one of our preeminent political practitioners of the art

from a strategic standpoint he should pick his zing spots so as not seem like a total jerk but not totally abandon zings as a palin flub followed by a sweet biden zing would play well on the tv indeed

Final votes:

Biden should zing 12
Biden should ignore Palin 11
Biden should lick his paws 9

Lock thread, plz

ew, ban 9 ppl

I think re: the zings he should be a total gent and let her zing first...and then be all 'here's one I made earlier...when you were in eigth grade.', emphasising that age and experience is a-okay when not accompanied by anger management issue plus nostalgia for both a lost war and a reflexive, hankering prestalgia for all Viagra-substitute violence to come.

Argh, typos...internet connection teeteringly precarious...

I'm leaning towards this opinion. The press is running hard with the "you've got to be fucking KIDDING me" narrative re: Palin. I think Biden should debate McCain in absentia rather than engage much with her.

^^ i'm inclined to agree with this but still a little concerned that the debate format is going to allow her to ramble nonsensically but oh so neighborly and directly to her base, without Couric there to cattle prod her back to the question at hand.

of course, if you are someone who's ok with this woman being the next-in-line leader of the free world, i suppose there's not much she could do to shake that kind of misplaced confidence

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/palin-ohv-trash-300x199.jpg

and then be all 'here's one I made earlier...when you were in eigth grade.'

Yeah no. Biden coming off like a petty McCain-esque crank isn't going to cut the mustard -- hell, McCain managed to play the "lol old I mean experienced" card w/ more elan than that in the first debate (when he wasn't whining about Obama's supposed ignorance and inexperience).

wtf "without Katie Couric to prod her" like Gwen Ifill is some slouch who doesn't know how to moderate, she moderates discussions every fucking day doesn't she?? i know Palin makes Couric look like Murrow but come on, there is a reason we have a moderator

if he totally ignores her, he'll look condescending and rude, though.

omg just like mean old mr. mccain was to obama

There's a difference between moderating a debate and conducting an interview. Gwen is under no obligation to point out fallacies, lies or inconsistencies in Palin's statements; that's Biden's job.

Biden's already said he won't patronize Palin like 'John did to Barack'. His timbre of voice doesn't lend itself to pettiness, so I think Dave's overreacting to that bit whilst overlooking the rest of the post because whatever else, Biden hasn't got any sense of entitlement and tends to come off as self-deprecating in his humour.

absolutely -- but ifill's well within her role to reiterate the question if it isn't answered (the way Lehrer did, but hopefully being less of an asshole about it)

xpost

wtf "without Katie Couric to prod her" like Gwen Ifill is some slouch who doesn't know how to moderate, she moderates discussions every fucking day doesn't she??

wasn't meant to dis Gwen (or celebrate Couric's interrogative prowess), rather that Palin could feasibly "get away" with more with open-ended answers as opposed to point blank questions that often require yes or no answers.

wait Lehrer was an asshole?

i really hope they "free palin" for this debate and she comes out all sassy sarcastic mom, dodging questions and fumbling policy questions but coming back with a zinger, then all the big-haired ladies in churchland will cluck and titter and wish that sarah palin could be their pal so they could all go to chili's for cadillac margaritas together, she's a firecracker that one, yup yup

Lehrer did just fine. You just need a stooge to ask questions, keep the contestants from rambling, and avoid Charlie Gibsonisms.

lehrer came across as a bit exasperated / nonplussed when neither offered a precise answer to what the bailout would cause them to cut from their spending plans

My saying "Biden shouldn't attempt extemporaneous zings" was not based on tactics, it was based on the notion that the only way Biden is going to fail here is if he says something extremely stupid that everyone spends all week analyzing, which is kinda his wont, therefore perhaps he should avoid flying off into any of the areas where he has the potential to say such things, of which "extemp zinging" is a significant territory

xpost - yeah, Elmo, his reaction seemed incredibly odd to me: did he really think there was ANY way he was going to get a candidate to sell out a policy proposal in a national debate? "Remember that thing where I said we needed to invest in our children's education? We could lose that one, my heart wasn't really in it."

nabisco -- i understand the concern about having biden shoot his mouth off, but i think it's pretty certain that more attention will be paid to palin in the debate spin aftermath. like it or not, this is kinda her show as she is still a (relatively) unknown quantity, so everyone's going to be watching for how she does, whereas biden already has a long reputation for saying dumb things -- it's totally expected of him, and often just passed over

McCain/Palin can lose the election on Thursday, but they can't win it.

the best-case scenario in my mind is biden restraining himself, answering questions genially and calmly, and letting palin zing away without having anything substantive to say

You realize that this scenario is actually a win for Palin, right?

― i am the small cat (HI DERE), Wednesday, October 1, 2008 10:49 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i want this to happen cause i think it feeds two stories that are advantageous to the obama campaign--1) the mccain campaign is rude, impetuous and totally lacking substance and 2) biden is a valuable steady-hand asset to the obama campaign, which is the opposite of the hasty and impulsive mccain campaign...

so far in this election ive seen little to no indication that voters are, post-convention, responding to palin's ignorance or the campaigns general attack direction the way they did with bush (whether thats because shes even dumber than he was, or because the "national mood" is no longer in favor of the uninformed, or because shes a woman, is a issue for another thread). stoic, calm steadiness has been working very well for obama's campaign so far, and the mccain campaign cant figure out what it is or what its doing except that it hates obama (and apparently the truth)

biden is a valuable steady-hand asset to the obama campaign, which is the opposite of the hasty and impulsive mccain campaign...

Um, Obama is the valuable steady-hand asset to the Obama campaign. Biden is the loose cannon!

im not saying that as a statement of fact, im saying its an advantageous story for the media to seize on

have you heard Biden's gaffes in the last couple of weeks? As nabisco said, it's expected of Biden.

i want the next days headlines to be "biden shows why he is an asset to the campagin" and "palin fast with zings but wheres the substance" instead of "biden and palin zing each other all over the place" which even if palin "loses" comes off like a draw

That would be a very odd story for the media to seize on considering to date it's been "lol Biden is crazy but ain't got NUTHIN' on Palin, wau"

xp, ha

take out "steady-hand" then its not really important to my point

biden's in a shitty position -- if he confronts her, they will try to spin him as being rude, condescending, etc. if he doesn't engage her at all, then the spin will be that this tough-talking powerhouse of a dem was rendered toothless by lil ol' sarah, everywoman

I hadn't heard about the Couric interview until after the Pres debate. I was watching CNN and the aftershow kept going on and on about how bad it was, how it was a disaster, etc. You would have thought she fell out of her chair or started screaming or something. And then I looked it up and yes, it was shitty, but I don't think nearly as bad as the media made it out to be. I still think she's out of her league but I don't think she's a walking timebomb, and that midwestern accent is charming and that is all most Americans are going to take away from any interview with her. She's going to have to mess up much more severely to do any damage.

and no, there will be no "draw," way to hedge your bets you guys

You don't think it's that bad? I think it's horrifying. (xpost)

its weird to me that you guys are so eager to see biden unleashed when the obama debate strategy of being calm and collected paid off well in the first debate... why is this one so different?

palin will either 'win' (regardless of substance) for exceeding expectations or she will choke on her own twisted tongue and that will be that

because biden is not obama and palin is not mccain, max

and i don't necessarily want to see BIDEN UNLEASHED but he has to be himself to some extent, otherwise he's on the defensive and just reacting to palin, letting her dictate the tone and direction of the discussion

besides, joe biden speaking in public without throwing in a few clever digs at his opponent is like a day without sunshine, it's how he play

biden already has a long reputation for saying dumb things

I think this reputation is limited to the media and folks who pay attention to people like Joe Biden, not undecided voters, who may well recognize Biden's name but not know his foot-in-mouth habits well enough to find them funny or charming. It is a totally different thing is he says something problematic during a VP debate and has chatter about his gaffe overwhelm chatter about how Palin does not entirely know what she's doing/saying. So yeah, I think Biden should worry less about "beating" her and more about prodding her to beat herself (sorry, these terms sound suddenly inappropriate) -- i.e., questioning her, engaging her, making her think on her feet and fall on her own.

Re: the Couric thing, I have anecdotal evidence of multiple people who were EXCITED about Palin and, despite not having major issues-based disagreement with anything she said in that interview, came away thinking "hold on, she just says random words while she's trying to think up an answer!" -- when this sense is palpable, it's palpable to everyone regardless of politics

no dude, gwen ifill is dictating the tone and direction of the discussion, and biden just has to come across as smart and engaging and substantive

i get that we all want to be entertained, but for serious, chilligotthis.jpg

well, that's assuming that ifill even moderates the debate

It's not that the right's critique isn't utterly transparent, but media backlash was one of the principal dynamics in motivating the Palin bounce in the first place.

But there's another factor here too. In preparing for a debate, you are often preparing nearly as much for the "judge" or moderator as for the opponent. Both campaigns probably have a pretty good idea of what types of questions she is likely to ask, how he is likely to ask them. Palin and Biden have undoubtedly watched videotapes of Ifill moderating the 2004 debate between John Edwards and Dick Cheney.

By changing the moderator, you're throwing everyone a curveball, and catering to the candidate who is better able to adapt on the fly. Which, most likely, is not going to be Sarah Palin.

via http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

i dunno max, you seem pretty invested in the idea that biden has to wear kid gloves for this

all respect to 538, but preparing for a specific moderator seems like a dumb idea to begin with.

All for Palin to lose, either way

or at least preparing for a moderator being the main focus, that is

doh i just posted about this in the other election thrad

i'm sure they prepare for every eventuality, including the variable of 'the moderator' -- you think the campaigns leave this up to chance?

You alluded to the same thing above, Elmo! I mean, the entire appeal of Palin rests in her being relatable to many folks, and when people see someone they relate to being jumped on by a career politician, whose side do you think they gravitate to? (Hence, like I said, Biden's job is to assist Palin in failing, not to jump out and MAKE her fail.)

someone photoshop "I'll there with you" Jesus over Sarah Palin.

i don't mean biden has to come at her swinging -- he can afford to pull his punches, only a little bit -- but if he is seen as not engaging her at all, i think it presents a worse outcome for him

Palin's "I think I was in second grade when we heard Biden say that" comment wasn't really a smart thing to say on her behalf, to put it mildly. If any memorably punch lands on Palin, this comment by her will likely be the catalyst.

I think Pailn will come out OKish, but given many peoples low expectations it will be a seen as a victory.

A debate is different from an interview, she's good at debates. She doesn't debate on issues but on crowd pleasing homilies. She, like Regan, isn't a facts and stats politician.

see: http://www.alternet.org/election08/101011/i%27ve_debated_sarah_palin_more_than_20_times_--_here%27s_what_it%27s_like/

Palins announcements only really get turned into a damaging 'you tube moment' jumble when under pressure, for instance the Couric newspaper questions had to get asked three times. Go back to the other flubs and you'll see it when the question has to be repeated because she gave a non-answer.

However, in a debate you can't press like that, and it looks like Biden has been especially warned not to press.

She wont mess up if not pressed.She may give bland non answers but she wont do the really damaging stuff. Unless Biden takes the risk of looking like a bully and presses hard. He needs to especially do this if Palin goes negative like her communnity organiser comments, he absolutely needs to call her out for that, no matter how she says it with a cutesy smile and a mannered 'you know'.

One difference in the debate winning tactics is that, unlike the Alaska ones mentioned in the article linked to above, these will be replayed and re-examined. This is the first You Tube election, if she flubs in a way that wouldn't have mattered much in previous years, it will be all over the net and it will be the clip of that flub we'll all be watching over and over.

"all respect to 538, but preparing for a specific moderator seems like a dumb idea to begin with."

Uh no, it's a very smart idea.

"She wont mess up if not pressed."

uh what?

i don't mean biden has to come at her swinging -- he can afford to pull his punches, only a little bit -- but if he is seen as not engaging her at all, i think it presents a worse outcome for him

otm otm otm

He shouldn't ignore her, jeez no one is saying that.

i don't think Palin will let him (or anybody really) ignore her.

Kathleen Parker gets letters

"I will not be . . . ignored . . ."

http:/✧✧✧.hostingp✧✧✧.c✧✧✧@michelletackab✧✧✧.n✧✧/blog/images/closelamp.jpg

I do like this part:

"Let Sarah be Sarah" has become the latest rallying cry among my colleagues on the right. She'll be fine if we just leave her alone, they say. Between prayers, I might add.

Schadenfreude:

Readers have every right to reject my opinion. But when we decide that a person is a traitor and should die for having an opinion different from one's own, we cross into territory that puts all freedoms at risk. (I hear you, Dixie Chicks.)

He shouldn't ignore her, jeez no one is saying that.

max, Shakey and Rock Hardy all said it on this thread.

Everyone should step away from this thread, get good and hammered tomorrow night, and return.

hello i have been sent the best gif ever

http://i36.tinypic.com/53p6xf.gif

Sigh, okay no one who actually has the slightest say in how Biden might behave (or the faintest idea about how debate dynamics work) is saying that.

JW that gif is highly offensive and is embarrassing to all americans of either party and also to me personally embarrassing due to copious and also high-volume roffles attracting unwanted coworker attention.

"best" = dumb, irritating, deeply unfunny?

rollseyes.jpg i didnt say he should ignore her, but if its important for me to be wrong, wv, rollseyes.jpg

max, Shakey and Rock Hardy all said it on this thread.

I believe I have been "misinterpretated"

guys this is a dumb argument. lol palin.

biden should wear this shirt to the debate
http://www.bigdogs.com/images/products/family/t2839.jpg

this gif is basically "lol stereotypes" right

Basically.

I think Biden should debate McCain in absentia rather than engage much with her.

This is not QUITE saying he should ignore her. I think Biden should debate McCain, his record and policies (via Mac's onstage proxy, Palin), not engage with Palin directly on what she knows or doesn't know, what she reads or doesn't read.

ok deej that is the best shirt ever

I should have blamed Alfred for the "ignore her" argument.

i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin.
i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin.
i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin.
i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin.
i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin.
i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin.
i have faith in biden not flicking his tongue between his fingers at Palin.

It's the dog that makes the shirt.

"best" = dumb, irritating, deeply unfunny?

you didn't know jw finds racism funny?

you wear a Phish hat

less Phish more Big Dogs

holy fuck that shirt is cracking me up

if Biden wore that tomorrow night, I'd marry him

biden just has to come across as smart and engaging and substantive

.333 ain't bad.

Don't be sad.

you wear a Phish hat

no i wear a fish hat

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-10-01-2903921607_1154fbcacb.jpg

THIS ONE TIME, AT DEBATE CAMP

i've been in that dude's house

Only anti-semitism

Hope springs eternal:

Rich (Lowry):

I'm listening to Sarah Palin on Hannity right now and I've never heard her sound more sure and in command. Tomorrow just might turn out to me a nice surprise...

Does it sound anything like this?

http://www.palinparrot.com/?question=Are+you+crazy%3F

DIY Palin Interview Generator

I think Gov. Palin is an amazing women. I am so over hearing about how scared she is during interviews and how little she knows about certain issues. I think most people would be a little nervous if Katie Couric was asking the same questions over and over. I also would like to say, cover someone''s eyes and ask them what shirt they have on. Chances are, they will stumble and have a hard time remembering. So what if she did''t NAME a specific news source. Sarah Palin BELIEVES what she believes. She KNOWS what she knows. She may not know EVERYTHING but I think she''s intelligent enough to catch up pretty quick. She is non-judgemental. It''s obvious. She''s real. Thats more than I can say for most people, people NOT trying to get your vote. Give her a break.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pew/20081002/ts_pew/37readyondayone

At what time is this thing on tonight? And does anybody know an interweb stream of it or similar? Am seriously considering staying or getting up to watch it...

i believe it's 2am london time

T, I'm not sure whether DPM should take the form of bullshit BINGO or the standard key phrases chugger special.

i think BOTH! somehow. email me your contendahs

http://www.hollywood-newsroom.com/news/entertainment-value-huge-for-sarah-palin-joe-biden-debate/

“A lot of people are anticipating this to be almost a ‘Saturday Night Live’ live,” said Tammy Vigil, an assistant professor of communications at Boston University and a co-author of the upcoming book, “The Third Agenda in U.S. Presidential Debates.” “The entertainment value on this debate is going to be huge.”

Heavy on the sarcasm but even so:

Fresh evidence tonight that the brilliant McCain campaign strategy to lock away the political effervescence of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to stoke overconfidence among the nation's Democrats and set the stage for yet another improbable Arizona comeback is working exactly as planned.

And oh, the comments.

i'm already getting nervous, guys!!

Don't be.

cover someone''s eyes and ask them what shirt they have on. Chances are, they will stumble and have a hard time remembering.

wow the average American must be even stupider than I thought

(Trust me, goole -- it's not GREAT satire but read through the whole thing, then read the comments.)

Okay these people are actually dumber than the folks making Youtube comments.

http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbnails/photo/2007-06/30306866.jpg

Andrew Malcolm's immigrant parents repeatedly stressed the importance of active participation in a democracy. Early lessons included learning the alphabetical list of states by watching televised roll calls of national political conventions. That childhood exposure led to a lifelong fascination with politics, including 40-plus years of covering them and a brief stint practicing them as press secretary to Laura Bush in 1999-2000.

Okay these people are actually dumber than the folks making Youtube comments.

Is that even possible?

Beneath every cellar is a potential for further development.

LA local news was doing their spot on the debate, but then...

"in more breaking news at this hour, there are reports of a puppy on the loose on the 5"

traffic > election, LOL

sorry
Traffic > debate, though this could throw the final KO to the election

JOE BIDEN WILL SAVE THAT PUPPY

HE WILL DO IT WITH HIS BARE HANDS, NOT SHOOT IT WITH A TRANQ GUN FROM A HELICOPTER LIKE SOME GOVERNORS WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS

Obama phones in about puppy, McCain rushes to the 5

WHEN HE IS DONE SAVING THE PUPPY HE WILL TAKE THE TRAIN BACK TO DELAWARE TO SEE HIS FAMILY AND, IF THE PUPPY IS UNCLAIMED, HE WILL LET HIS GRANDCHILDREN PLAY WITH THE PUPPY, GENTLY

why are you yelling?

a puppy loose in the presidential race

are there any bars in nyc that are going to be playing this tonight

No, none.

nabisco + puppy humor is one of the things i'll most remember about 08

how feverishly is palin praying with thomas muthy right now?

hai guyz how do i get to huntington beach
i wunt to go hunting

LORD MAKE AH WAY, LORD MAKE AH WAY

I really hope Palin brings the lolz tonight, this is my evening's entertainment.

obama's dad is a wizard, pass it on

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/02/mccain-says-obama-lead-growing-because-life-isnt-fair/

LIFE ISNT FAIIIIIRR

Wow, crybaby stage already.

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/siren.gif[url=http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/McCain_pulling_out_of_Michigan.html?showall]MCCAIN CONCEDING MICHIGAN MCCAIN CONCEDING MICHIGAN MCCAIN CONCEDING MICHIGAN MCCAIN CONCEDING MICHIGANhttp://www.bradblog.com/Images/siren.gif

Posted already.

oh i forgot what thread i was in

DON'T PANIC:

re: Free Palin [Mark R. Levin]

I would LOVE to question Katie Couric about her knowledge of the Constitution, let alone Supreme Court decisions.

and

So, I guess, this is all an around and about way of saying that I'm in the Free Sarah Palin camp. I don't mean throw her out there and hope she swims. She needs to be prepared on the substance. But she also needs to be taught techniques to relax, feel calm and grounded, find her center, listen strategically, and take control. Deep breathing exercises, physical and vocal warm ups, can help. Finding that one person in the audience to connect to, or forgetting the audience altogether and having an intimate chat. She needs to find whatever works. And every bit of coaching she gets should be directed toward helping her exude the charm, charisma, and confidence that has gotten her this far.

Somehow Mark Levin as yoga teacher is not filling me with a sense of calm.

"Find your flow, yes...now blame the Democrats for not letting you find it earlier..."

palin should smoke a fatty with K-Lo, that will help her relax

Sarah and Kathryn Go to Applebee's

sarah palin's funny sober just think how funny she would be when she's baked

Ross Douthat has the best analysis I've read in days:

For those conservatives who claim to see no problems with Palin's performance, of course, this is precisely what's so outrageous about the anti-Palin backlash: She's being judged, they complain, less on her record and her positions than on her ability to BS her way through "gotcha" questions from hostile interviewers, and she's being found wanting because she isn't as practiced in the art of the on-air dodge as more experienced politicians. (Thus Joe Carter's pro-Palin complaint, for instance, that he "cannot make the leap in logic required to believe that proficiency on television is evidence of capable leadership.")

I think this view is wrong for several reasons: Because Palin's relatively limited record in politics magnifies the importance of her public comments for anyone who's trying to get a handle on who this woman is and whether she's ready for high office; because her performance has been so comprehensively lousy that it has to reflect, to some degree, on her knowledge base and her understanding of policy as well as on her TV chops; and because like it or not, "proficiency on television" is simply a prerequisite for capable leadership in a mass democracy. But there's a sense in which the apologists for her performance are getting something right: In the process of performing very, very badly on national television, Palin is holding up a mirror to the rest of the political world, and revealing how the mix of talking points, bluster, obfuscation and BS that nearly all national politicians traffic in as a matter of course sounds when it's filtered through someone who isn't practiced in it, and isn't ready for the spotlight. Her performances reflect badly on her readiness for the vice presidency, no question - but they reflect badly on our whole compromised, spin-happy political class as well.

Well, whoop-de-fuck. Sarah Palin as window on our fucked up political process.

Any analysis that makes more out of her than a fish out of water is stretching it.

LIFE ISNT FAIIIIIRR

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/leavemccainalone.jpg

uh

sounds like a GREAT PLAN!

Another example noted by the campaign was voting for defense cuts during the Reagan administration, and voting against the first Gulf war in 1991. (PolitiFact.com points out that he voted with the majority of Senate Democrats on the resolution.)

lolz - I mean the first Gulf War was fucking stupid and voting against it is totally defensible but way to screw up your facts ahead of time guys

That's not a bad plan for her, honestly: if her main liability is looking a bit confused and underinformed when pressed on issues, it make sense to take the attack-dog position, because you can't look confused or underinformed when you're lunging at someone. (Also she's allowed to lunge at Biden in ways he's not allowed to lunge at her, so why not.)

woohoo

is this on at 2am uk time again? I have a 6 pack of tiger and 10 lights, and I'm settling in for the fireworks

Yeah, I'm gonna stay up (somehow). I think it's gonna be on BBC news24?

if biden isn't solid this could be pretty anti-climactic. if he doesn't veer off course to school her or attack her, but just trusts that the disparity between them will be so apparent that no one will be able to apologize for palin tomorrow, or likewise attack biden for anything, that would be ideal.

if biden isnt solid it will probably still be entertaining and climactic imo

Well hey ain't that a shocker that the McCain campaign asked that the post-answer give-and-take "talk to him / her" portion of the debate Q&A be reduced from five minutes to two.

I'm kinda hoping she tries to bring cue cards to to podium.

yes "to to" that is correct

i'm just afraid that this will be anti-climactic, really. i was so pumped for obama/mccain and that was pretty devoid of entertainment (which is what the debates are for, really). and now i'm getting excited to see a historic roasting and if it turns into a back-and-forth that isn't OBVIOUSLY lopsided, i will be disappointed. i would like biden to bring the zing, but if he gets goofy, and palin is palin, then the vp debate will seem like it should be soundtracked with benny hill, and they might as well just start running around shooting toy guns at each other.

i guess that sounds pretty good too now that i consider it

Well, Gwen Ifill sure is excited:

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/123073/2180604/2201432/081002_EX_ifillEX.jpg

Plouffe protests

David Plouffe spoke to reporters just now, my colleague Victoria McGrane reports, previewing the debate.

After repeatedly calling Palin first “an extremely good debater,” then a “great” one, at the end he ramped it up to “Gov. Palin is one of the best debaters in American politics,” at which point the press gaggle interrupted him with its laughter. “No, she is! Her 2006 debate, she knew where she wanted to take every question, and so I think she’ll be relentlessly on message tonight and again I’m sure she’ll have any number of biting and witty one-liners but our focus is on the person sitting at home in Canton, Ohio, tonight, Akron, Ohio tonight, struggling economically. Who is delivering a message about an agenda that is going to most positively impact their lives,” he said.

He also criticized McCain’s comments this morning about Gwen Ifill’s Obama book as “another in a long line of manufactured controversy.”

“They are a campaign that’s filled with distractions, and trying to manufacture news to try to quote-unquote ‘make news cycles.’ We’re very consistent; we’re trying to drive a message, articulate where Barack Obama and Joe Biden would take the country. We think that at the end of the day we’ll be rewarded for that consistency,” he said.

“We think that consistency matters in politics and I think there’s been an erraticness in the McCain campaign over the last 10 days that I think has puzzled voters. So we’ll see what Gov. Palin does tonight," he said.

Plouffe is awesome

idle speculation: is it possible that Palin's injury - apparently she hurt her hand at McCain's ranch and will be bandaged - is to neutralize criticism of her if she goes after wheelchair-bound Ifill?

ask Obama and his sergeant's bracelet.

she knew where she wanted to take every question

^^ this is a great use of the English language

the ascii porn of this exists somewhere i'm sure of it

http://www.palinbingo.com/

"No, she is!"

the palin flute footage was killing me last night on the news. from now on if an election thread starts stressing you out, just take a flute break.

omg that is... omg

She should have done a duet with trumpet Star Wars girl.

Haha, that very joke was made on Idolator, Dan...

http://www.cliffordmeth.com/files/ian_tull.jpg

ROCK N ROLL!

I just drove by Wash u. There were people protesting in polar bear costumes O_O

I wonder if either candidate will go after the locals by calling it Warsh U.

re: jitters [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

An e-mail: " I'm easing the jitters by playing a little game: Trying to think up the questions Gwen Ifill is likely to ask tonight. First one on my list is: Senator Biden, Ms. Palin, how would you assess the historical significance of America's first African American candidate for president?"

10/02 06:28 PM

lolz KJL trying really hard to "think like a black lady" there or what?

aww she has a little game

these guys are retarded

Ifill and Republican Wimps [Peter Kirsanow]

As I noted below, whether Ifill betrays a bias in favor of Obama/Biden tonight is somewhat beside the point. I'll bet that it will be hard to detect any bias in the questions she asks or the manner in which she asks them. And that's precisely why her evident conflict of interest is so insidious. It's more often the questions that aren't asked that betray bias and unfairness.

first she counts the number of times she can bounce the ball in an hour, and then she tries to beat that number

x-posts

her evident conflict of interest is so insidious.

her evident conflict of interest is so insidious.

her evident conflict of interest is so insidious.

her evident conflict of interest is so insidious.

"lolz KJL trying really hard to "think like a black lady" there or what?"

Hey that was an email from a reader not KJL (she just reposted it!)

It's a reference to her book, Shakey

Or at least the kind benefit-of-the-doubt way of reading it is that it's a joke about the book

http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/1acardgwen.jpg

It's more often the questions that aren't asked that betray bias and unfairness.

Governor Palin, please share with us, in what ways do you believe that pageants build character?

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/music/ny-etrick1002,0,5492521.story

after the win he can bow out knowing the internet is in capable, milflifluous hands

"lulzy"

rong thread no?

i meant to post this

nu-code is killing flute rolling

flute roffling?

that flute footage made me actually cry with joy.

New ILX buzzwords: "flute roffle."

does palinbingo work for anyone else? not me.

I mean, does the page load?

im still waiting on some good drinking game rules that don't involve palin naming all of her kids or talking about putin again. i wanna get drunk tonight guys and i don't want it all to be from biden's scranton and amtrak references.

take a drink every time you are not currently drinking

works for me

She could name Supreme Court cases from the Charles Evan Hughes era.

The flute footage seemed like an outtake from Carrie, I kept waiting for the bucket of blood to fall on her head.

Her favourite artist...James Galway.

hey so has this been posted? because it definitely needs to be.

shd automatically disqualify anyone from national office, xp

This Thursday! A debate for the ages! Two contestants, one vice presidency! Who will earn the honor of succeeding Dick Cheney?

In the blue corner Joe “I take the train home” Biden. In the red corner Sarah “I can see Russia from my house” Palin.

Blue Team Rules

* For every mention of Scranton, Pennsylvania: Take a sip.
* When Biden begins the “I take the train home everyday story” being drinking. Don’t stop ‘till he finishes.
* When Biden questions Palin’s inexperience: Drink something you’ve never had before
* When Biden makes an obvious gaffe: Spill your neighbor’s drink
* When Biden uses X words when Y will do: Drink X-Y seconds
* When Biden patronizes or self identifies with the working class: Down some brew (Bonus points if you use Miller Highlife)
* When Biden lambastes Washington Insiders: Make a toast to his 35 years of experience in the United States Senate

The Joe Biden checklist. If he mentions all of the following, finish your drinks: Blue Collar, Golden Parachute, Little Guy, Washington Insider, Working Class, Clean

Red Team Rules

* Every time Palin cites Alaska’s proximity to Russia as “foreign policy experience”: Take a shot of vodka
* When Palin claims she said “Thanks but no thanks” to the Bridge to Nowhere: Demand a new drink from your hosts, say “thanks but no thanks,” and then when no one’s looking, take it anyway, then claim you never wanted it.
* When Palin recounts putting the governor’s jet on eBay: Auction off a beer to your friends
* When Palin insists that governing a small town in Alaska is in fact experience: Give your friend a shot glass of beer when he/she asks for a pint and insist it’s the same thing.
* When Palin points out that Biden thought Obama was too inexperienced for the job: Finish your drink and say, “Oh Snap!” If you’re a democrat, follow this by crying.
* When Palin claims that Washington’s problems can be solved by small town know how and common sense: Drink a Labatt Blue as you read up on how to become a Canadian citizen.
* When Palin talks about being the most popular governor in the country: Go to a room by yourself, realize you’re the most popular person in the room, then finish your drink.

The Sarah Palin checklist. If she mentions all of the following, finish your drinks: Bush Doctrine, Snow Machine, Moose, Lipstick, Hockey Mom, Family Values

via http://www.lifelovepursuit.com/post/52761499/tonights-vp-drinking-game

http://media.tumblr.com/Qq0q0yXilekzakwfuuoJyZkno1_500.png

alternative drinking game rules (think this might already be posted)

http://media.tumblr.com/gC7Usffu3ekdw0gwksHz6vrWo1_500.jpg

take a drink every time you are not currently drinking

works for me

^^^^ jeff otm; this isn't rocket science, people! [/ally]

see, i dont see the red team drinking very much in that scenario xxxp

where is joe biden bingo

Ha, I like "remembers talking point in mid-sentence" -- doing this for Palin would get you messed up for sure.

e.g., her bailout answer, which with light-bulb noises kinda goes:

But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping BING oh, it's got to be all about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and BING reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and BING trade -- we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today. We've, we’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation.

Oh and MOOSE, those are a big problem facing a lot of the Americans I talk to, and, you know, SNOW-MACHINES, we have to ask ourselves are our snowmachines affordable

has the person who wrote that drinking game actually had fun drinking, ever? complicated rules don't work. stupid shit that can't actually be done, or that would get you slapped doesn't work. the only thing that works is drinking. focus people

"folks" - drink
"ahmadinejad" - drink
"surge" - drink
"700" - drink
"aisle" - drink
anecdote about regular person met on campaign trail - three drinks

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2008/10/scoring_the_debate_1.cfm

"trickle" - drink
palin thanks ifill for asking the question (thanks elmo!) - drink
palin uses lack of "another 9/11" as evidence that republicans have been good for national security - drink
biden praises mccain's military service - three drinks

maybe this is getting too complicated - scratch above and replace with

"trickle" - drink
"another 9/11" - drink
"served" - drink

"the" - drink

Anyone know who the two dopes were on Lou Dobbs' show claiming Palin will win (or SHOCK FOLKS with her performance at) the debate?

i think im gonna stick with:
palin thanks ifill for asking the question (thanks elmo!) - drink
palin remembers talking point in mid-sentence - drink
biden audibly laughs at palin - drink
scranton - drink (this one really just to make sure i dont come out of the debate sober)

I think The Best Political Team On TV And Hey Don't Forget Assholes already started playing the drinking game!

ooh, i also like
every time Palin starts a sentence with "Ya know"

Will Palin bring her guitar?

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/deliverance.JPG

Haley Barbour pre-debate chat with KCouric: "Obama is clearly articulate and well-spoken..." no less than 4 times. Dear lord.

Well, I have my Blue Peters pre-rolled, bringing new meaning to fired up and ready to go...

In 1982, Barbour was the Republican candidate for United States Senate but lost to incumbent Democrat John C. Stennis.[4]

During this failed bid for Senator a controversy arose at a campaigning stump. According to The New York Times, in the presence of the press an aide was complaining to Barbour that "coons" were going to be at a campaign stop at the state fair. Barbour warned the aide, in front of reporters, that if the aide persisted in racist remarks, he would be "reincarnated as a watermelon and placed at the mercy of blacks."[5]

let's do this

Brokaw notes Palin's "puckish sense of humor."

"can I call you Joe?"

"can I call you joe?" drink!

very thankful

"Can I call you Joe?"

!!!!!!!

oh yeah, biden gets in the first thank you

this is all very chummy so far

Biden didn't insist on "Mr. Biden"

+1

all she has to do is get out a complete sentence here to exceed expectations, right?

No, call me Herr Oberkommander Biden

nice solid, steady answer from joe here

actually... stringing sentences together

"privilege"

dook dook dook

SOCCER.

DRINK.

BETCHA.

DRINK.

is thu economy a smiley face or a frowny face?

"I'll BETcha"

SOCCER GAME

That voice! Cheese-grater on expanded polystyrene!

she's doing the obama thing of looking at the camera!

welcome to hell! :-D

deer headlights

lol she's staring straight ahead making sure she remembers every word

do we have to drink everytime she mentions sports?

even suspending his campaign!

CNN's EKG tonight is BATTLE OF THE SEXES.

RESOUNDING BAROMETER

WINK!

goddamn those American workers rock, don't they?

she winked!

DON'T SAY NO SHIT ABOUT JOHN MCCAIN AND THE FUNDAMENTALS. SARAH GONNA GET YOU.

O NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE

"out of touch" is a lolold zinger

oh my god she winked

TEAM OF MAVERICKS

TEAM OF MAVERIX

Stet, you betcha!

MAVERICKS ... but working together in a TEAM.

getting the job done.

MAVERIQUE!!

LOL NEITHER OF YOU ANSWERED

lol Stakhanovite values

no "politics as usual", but HARD WORK and uh reform

woo

OMG THE WINK!

refresh buttons everywhere tonite : so gonna happen

ON NOTICE!!!

is this being moderated by the chick from where on earth is carmen sandiego

my office right now:
http://i37.tinypic.com/sxexkz.jpg
THERES ONLY ONE OCTOBER

DARN RIGHT!!!!
XP

darn right!

YOU'RE DARN TOOTIN'!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/02/05/2004165978.jpg

SIX PACK

Team of mavericks: i'm imagining john mccain starring in 'Multiplicity'

Never again? WTF.

HOCKEY MOMS

holy fucking shit

holy shit, I'm drunk on this palin answer alone!!

JOE SIXPACK
NEVER AGAIN

this is yawnsville.

Gotta gotta gotta gotta gotta get DOWN wit' gettin' bidness done!

JOE SIX-PACK/HOCKEY MOM BIFECTA DRINX

she's not totally incoherent so far

she needs to
s l o w d o w n

watch her eyes. her blink rate goes through the roof when she's reciting from coaching. With the big words.

Darn right!!

You're all too fast for me!!

yeah, she better start rambling nonsense or this will be boooooooooooooring

HECK OF A LOT

hurtin', heck of a lot

omg she's so folksy i want to die

oh joe sixpack! oh hockey moms! never again! never again will we let the terrorists...errr, what was I saying?

I think David Plouffe gave Biden a tranquilizer before the debate.

a good man

"Wall Street can self-regulate...itself."

Joey Dank

HEY JOEY

joe biden sleepy.

I thought he said Joey Diaper

Joey Dank, stop driving a tank! bad mileage, bro!

DARN RIGHT

"a good man" is this debate's "john is right"

Smile, Joe, Smile!

what tax increases r u responding to???

DARN RIGHT

SENATOR BIDEN, SARAH? I thought y'all were on a first-name basis!

this mofo fakied couric something bad!!!

I would totally hit it though.

HEAT IT UP

MSNBC with the hott splitscreen action

"BARACK"

ZING

TACKIS

BOGUS STANDARD BOO-YA

ah, accusations of falsehood. KEEP EM COMING

Go Biden

here comes killer biden

oh snap

tachis taxis txs taxes

the governor did not answer the question

OOOOOH

Haha

I may not answer the questions!!!!

"What I say may no logical sense, but I'm sure darn gonna say it"

I reduced taxes...BY MAKING RAPE VICTIMS PAY FOR THEIR RAPE KITS

I'M GONNA TALK STRAIGHT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE = I don't have to care about you or the moderator

oooh ifill clamps down palin

snap

I may not stop when the moderator says to stop but I will talk to the americandasl;kfjasdfpwerer

moderator disagrees xp

darnit, she's just gonna answer how she wants! ooooh, that moderator can just go....fly a kite!

biden needs to stop the smiling
its condescending

"where I come from" = drink

oh that redistribution of wealth principal

That sounded like her first improvised aside about "redistribution of wealth"

biden needs to go wolverine on this bitch

The Corner won't load for me. I think they crashed. :(

That 'small-businesses will fit into that bracket' is a point McCain didn't make. I think she might be doing better than he did so far.

ok that made no sense

Joe is awesome at smiling at her while she talks shit

basically "todd and i make over $250k, so fuck you!"

biden needs to stop speaking.
it's condescending

OH REAGAN SNAP

is she right about the small-business income tax thing?

<3 cankles

blink blink blink blink

"GOVERNMENT, YOU BETTER STEP OFF, GOVERNMENT."

yeah I have to admit the small business thing was actually kind of a smart move in terms of sounding good (not sure if true)

so bush government shit at running things, Palin?

wait...what....changing tax rates is not budget neutral

who cares gbx?

SCRANTON, DRINK

haha scranton

xxxpost yeah srsly

"where I come from" ugh

ugh the way she rolled her eyes while she said the word "government"

and correspondingly moved her shoulders too!

i aint using teh radio, Mr candidate

omg biden's dripping disgust when he said "website" lololol

joe comes across much more as if he knows this stuff, as opposed to palin who comes across as if she's been taught it

i was told there would be no math

oh snap

BIDEN WINS

COLD

ULTIMATE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE

OOOOH WE'RE ON THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE

TURN THAT BRIDGE TO NOWHERE AROUND!!

damn gwen is about done with this shit

he saved a potentially long-winded answer

SNAAAAP

So is she taking notes, reading notes, or doing the Jumble?

That was a hell of a job to boil down that McCain insurance crap in 90 seconds!

But what he was saying before was too verbose. That zinger needed to go at the end of a pithier point.

LOL GWEN LAY IT DOWN

she's doing better than I expected so far, gotta say

exxon zing

http://www.bigdogs.com/images/products/family/t2839.jpghttp://www.bigdogs.com/images/products/family/t2839.jpghttp://www.bigdogs.com/images/products/family/t2839.jpg

biden talking too long

THE LIGHT IS BLINKING

yeah, she's doing ok

characterizezzzeze

THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

talk talk talk talk talk talk

THAT'S WHAT AH'M TALKIN' ABOUT

unpatriotic that's whut I'm talkin' about

charactererererisms

YA YH YAHYAH YAH

What the fuck?

plz stop smiling, Biden

Smilin' Biden

how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?
how can she believe in fossil fuels if she doesn't believe in fossils?

"NO, NOT HERE, SIR"

So far Biden killing her on Mediacurves/CNN apparently.

any of the greed there that has been kinda instrumental in their mode of operation wouldn't be up there

uh

Bless their hearts

BLESS THEIR HEARTS = drink xbillions

has she actually pronounced a 'g' at the end of a verb yet? Is she going to just devolve into a full-on Alaskan-flavored cockney within the next 60 mins?

"in this case, in a country"

biden should zing with the polar bears

they told him to smile because otherwise everyone would think he was being mean to the little lady

come on he paid good money for them teeth he may as well show 'em off.

loooooool how long have i been at this? 5 weeks???

more winking

much more satisfying = this is actually a fair fight and biden will still school her

srsly she is doing terribly

FUCK THE CORNER IS DOWN

i promise u nothing!!!

cozen otm

she's p charismatic imo - maybe i'm being unconsciously influenced by my desire to ejaculate in her hair, but i dont think i even understood how charismatic she was until now

yay let's get on the environmental rollercoaster

that windfall profits tax bit is good

TS: How Long Have I Been At This vs. Ready On Day One

she's doing OK.

Biden is coming off as very disciplined, and maybe a little bit in a pharmaceutical fog.

how do you stop the greed and corruption on wall street? Why, deregulation of course!

"maybe i'm being unconsciously influenced by my desire to ejaculate in her hair"

graceful floating windfall zing

Revelation!

REVELATION MADE AWARE

"revelation" dog whistle!

He so didn't need to praise this. What she did, by her own standards, was Democratic principles at their scariest!

"more revelation made aware now to Americans"

gahhhh I'm not drunk enough

Rear that head of abuse!

rear the head . . . of abuse?

more and more revelation made aware to americans.

man she out-bushes Bush

she's a main streeter. she'd feel the effects of the credit markets seizing up.

A TOXIC MESS ON MAIN STREET THAT'S HURTING WALL STREET

hey y'all, it's just lettin' sarah be sarah

Eh. It's a draw so far.

A Hot Toxic Tranny Mess!

Total draw.

this principal-adjustment thing is bad news

your ticket's energy ticket also

Biden is killing with Independents on Mediacurves.

oooh she just learned NONSENSICAL

the rings around his eyes look terrible

Is it a coincidence that my acid reflux is getting really bad while listening to Palin blather? I need to get some more tums. I may have to turn this off.

tap-in-to-em

hey where's tombot?

whoah what what what energy what what? this great land what what change the subject

absolute refusal to stay on Ifill's questions...that can't play well

she sounds like Tracy Flick.

"i wanna talk about... the things that gott writted on my cue cards"

ta tap inta 'em

EAST COAST POLITICIANS

Here come the polar bears!

RED MEAT RED MEAT

The East coast is the new elite. Clearly, she has never been to Delaware.

East Coast Politicians

DRINK

biden needs to stop nodding, if anything

OK this should be fun.

tracy flick otm!

she's been practicing hard, you gotta give her that

ya uptoeleven otm

oh HERE WE GO

GRAMMAR POLICE, ARREST THIS GIRL

Huh?

either my CNN live feed has a slight delay, or you people are the fastest typists I've encountered.

i give her handlers an A-

There is something to be said for Man's activities

cyclical temperature changes

this bar is way too quiet