Come anticipate Fabio Capello's two years as England manager with me

I'm torn here. I think sentimentally he should let Becks have his 100, but the message needs to go out that superstars can't pick themselves via the press anymore.

FOREIGNER DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE BECKS "PASSION" - SACK HIM

ENGLAND EX-BECKS

Becks can bloody wait. it's only the bleedin' Swiss.

defoe out leona lewis in

it'd be interesting to see which keeper he goes for. Green, James, Carson and Hart all in contention. Possibly even Kirkland.

CURTIS DAVIES

James
Carson
Kirkland

Bridge
A. Cole
Davies
Ferdinand
Johnson
Richards
Lescott
Upson
Woodgate
Shorey
King
Brown

Carrick
Barry
Hargreaves
Gerrard
Jenas
Downing
J. Cole
SWP
Bentley

Heskey
Agbonglahor
Owen
Rooney
Crouch

Owen

wait what

Wow, really struggling for forwards there

Young's in too, no? Rob Green must be wondering who he's gotta sleep with.

So he's picked every English player in the Premiership except Robinson and Green then?

and Dave "Dave" Kitson

Capello out.

RIP big man, heaven needed a dude who loved General Franco more than Dave Kitson

If I was Harry Redknapp or Martin O'Neill I would be straight on the phone to Jermain Defoe's agent like right now.

Actually I might kill myself first, then get on the phone.

BBC's saying Portsmouth have agreed a Defoe fee.

Does this mean Harry Redknapp is dead as well?

looks like he's angling for a 5-3-2 with that squad. normal back 4 with an extra man behind the 'keeper, just in case.

ZEE 10 POINT ACTION PLAN FOR ENGLAND

1. sack Steve McClown

2. Get rid of Barwick, replace with David Boyle

3. Bring David James back for stability ...If David James woz in goal tonight he would have known about Kranjcar

4. Bring in Matty Taylor instead of Scummer bridge

5. Bring in Glen Jonno Johnson at right back, he would have been up against Kranjcar tonite

6. Switch Micah Richards to Centre Back

7. Instal Harry Redknapp as part time manager with Jamie Redknapp as assistant and Louise as half time totty cheerleader

8. go web2.0 with rateyourenglandplayers.com - Social media and user generated content is the future

9. instal systems thinking courses, there is more than 4-4-2 or 4-5-1

10. copy Arsene Wenger's Arsenal Blueprint of quick passing football

DISCUSS !

-- djmartian, Wednesday, 4 May 2007 22:44 Link

1. sack Steve McClown

3. Bring David James back for stability ...If David James woz in goal tonight he would have known about Kranjcar

And with these two already done, we're nearly 1/3 of the way to DJ Martianisation.

#6 looks a way off when you look at the squad but you never know.

Here's hoping MATTY TAYLOR impresses at wherever the fuck oh who cares where he is now.

4. Bring in Matty Taylor instead of Scummer bridge

To be revised.

d'oh

My favourite thing about that post is how #10 is actually quite sensible after the steady crescendo of mentalism beforehand.

Louise as half time totty cheerleader

RIP djcalum

BBC transfer wire is, as usual, the most important source for hard deadline day facts:

1616: "Javier Saviola spotted at Fratton Park, by my mate... could be a wind-up."
bowkers123 on 606

I approve of the "fuck a bulldog spirit" message Capello's squad selection displays here.

1642: "Gareth Barry has just been seen with his agent going in to Goodison Park, along with Theo Walcott."
jongre123 on 606

i have no idea why i'm posting those to this thread.

harsh to have owen in ahead of defoe, tbh.

nice to see lennon dropped to the kids, he's needed a kick up the ar$e. feel sorry for dawson, but he's been poor lately so them's the breaks.

1653: "Malcolm Macdonald spotted undergoing physical at St. James' Park"
mackem08 on 606

If I was Harry Redknapp or Martin O'Neill I would be straight on the phone to Jermain Defoe's agent like right now.

Actually I might kill myself first, then get on the phone

You might want to take a look at Redknapp's house first before you kill yourself, at least think about it over the summer...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/204/462583624_06bd1dbe0d_m.jpg

He'll remember that fondly in jail.

He was actually there sunbathing. Caused much amusement on the boat.

Brave new dawn, guys.

GEEKS

i missed Jenas goal but the Swiss equaliser was great. Rooney and Gerrard did well to set up the winner.

WTF was Jenas doing on the pitch at the start? I know he's improved a lot lately but blimey. I didn't watch the game so this was all related to me via text which made it even weirder.

Portentious omen - this is Capello's precursor to also trying to fudge the Gerrard/Lampard problem.

wright-phillips out

Italy thrashed Portugal 3-1.

Just saying, like.

and Wales won 3-0

Wha?

Let's all point and laugh at the Norwegians.

I did watch the Socceroos beat Qatar 3-0 and I'm not sure why.

i don't watch much football but does Rooney always hogg the ball that much normally ?

Only when he doesn't have C Ronaldo to carry him.

so was that 4-5-1 last night?

Yeah, I had a wry chuckle when I realised it was as well. Although in fairness to Fab it did turn into 4-1-2-2-1 at points.

OK, 4-5-1 now rejigged to mean "OTM, but with workmanlike tedium"

"3-5-2" and "Jagger Dynamic Pentangle" remains synonyms for "you are fucking insane", questions?

OK, 4-5-1 now rejigged to mean "OTM, but with workmanlike tedium"

-- That mong guy that's shit, Thursday, 7 February 2008 12:42 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Or "Nabisco", as it's usually known.

GEEKS!

His 'geeks' thing was funny but Lawro should've quite co-commentating after the Croatia match. He never sounds like he's enjoying it.

Then again can you imagine someone as sarcastic as him on ITV? maybe it's good.

and he's still far less annoying than Mark Bright

I don't know why they have Lawro on England games, he obviously doesn't care whether they win or lose

And he's a franchise-apologist cunt.

I don't know why they have Lawro on England games, he obviously doesn't care whether they win or lose

Impartial commentary eh, who'd want that?

Obv. you want it, but you hardly expect it, do you?

Obv. it's good, when you've got England supporters like Alan Hansen in the studio, to have a bit of balance

I liked Lineker's wee dig about WrightWrightWrighty's England goals total at the end.

Gary Lineker's middle name is Winston.

Hansen's position is a bit of a pickle tho. When he eventually is no longer a pundit, which Scotsman will take his place?

Terry Butcher :-)

too ugly

When he eventually is no longer a pundit

eh? what's to stop him continuing his punditry 'til he pops his clogs?

So Rio now has the most misshapen lips of any England captain ever, right?

I love how everyone's pretending this is a big deal when we already knew full well Capello was planning on rotating the captaincy over the next few months?

Still, if it annoys John Terry it's good with me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38542000/jpg/_38542365_milligan238.jpg
http://footyfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/england-coach-fabio-capello.jpg

[7. Instal Harry Redknapp as part time manager with Jamie Redknapp as assistant and Louise as half time totty cheerleader

8. go web2.0 with rateyourenglandplayers.com - Social media and user generated content is the future

9. instal systems thinking courses, there is more than 4-4-2 or 4-5-1]

"The Moore in question is, of course, the late Robert, captain of England, winner of 108 caps, the World Cup, and the respect of every opponent down from the uniquely competitive Pele, who, after their soaring duel in Guadalajara in 1970, tore off his shirt and entered an embrace known only to the bravest and the best of warriors.

Also in the firing line, of course, is another Robert, Sir Bobby Charlton, who scored more goals than any other Englishman in international football, won the World Cup and was told that his 106th cap would be his last immediately after he had guided England into a winning position against West Germany in the 1970 World Cup quarter-final, only to be pulled off because, in the one great aberration of his brilliant career, Sir Alf Ramsey wanted to keep him fresh for the semi-final against Italy.

The trouble with Beckham's self-promotion and the sentimentality which has swept him to tonight's milestone here is that it appears to owe no debt to the reality of football history, the smidgeon of it his career represents and the mountainous scale of those of men like Moore and Charlton."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-a-mickey-mouse-milestone-to-cap-beckham-fantasia-800477.html

wow: I turned on R5 and I think Platini was talking about respect for referees. and now - David Ginola, radio pundit!

kick-off at 8:00.

Ginola as pundit

will Alan Green show his notorious LFC sympathies?

I hope France score a few goals. But maybe 1-1 or so is more likely.

GOAL for france

in case anyones interested

I am. It is nice to hear of James giving away a penalty, then watching it go past him.

Subs: Terry, Gerrard, J Cole, Rooney all off!

poor Austria went 3-0 up against Holland but are now 4-3 down

plus, Russia whipped in Bucharest! Greece win in Portugal!

must be really annoying for Portugal even if it is only a friendly - still no revenge for two defeats four years ago

I'm annoyed too, to hear that.

But not at England's result. Allez les bleus! Ginola was assez bon aussi.

how can you prefer france to win over england? i say this as a man who bet on france to win 1-0 to soften the blow

Spain deservedly beat Italy, game played out like a League Two relegation six-pointer where someone's gone into the Football Manager data editor and raised all the player's attributes by 50. Except Iaquinta, who on tonight's performance would probably be a great fit for Bury's sub's bench.

High points of the match numbered two: the Spaniards quite clearly having a sweepstake who could antagonise Camoranesi to the point of him getting sent off, and Grosso executing a perfect sweep kick on Alonso, suggesting that after his football career ends he could get down with some UFC.

Je les aime

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/uk_enl_1206550186/img/1.jpg

Hmmm, poor game last night. I hadn't seen England play in a while, now I understand why you guys didn't make it to the Euro. England players seemed to play for the first time together.

... while France played at being Italy

England in not-worth-watching friendly shockah.

Attendance: 78,500. Do people never learn?

"The Moore in question is, of course, the late Robert, captain of England, winner of 108 caps, the World Cup, and the respect of every opponent down from the uniquely competitive Pele, who, after their soaring duel in Guadalajara in 1970, tore off his shirt and entered an embrace known only to the bravest and the best of warriors.

Where's this from, BNP News? England are in trouble, cannae even beat France.

Would BNP News be happy to hymn the greatness of Pele?

The "unique competitiveness" of Pele you mean... what unique competitiveness?

Pretty sure it's an impotence gag.

Question: Why does the English team underperform so much? Its not like you guys are lacking for talent so what's up?

They're lacking in talent

the season's too long and there are too many competitions. Scrap the League Cup, reduce the size of the Premiership to 16 teams. Let the resultant time be taken up by the national team training together, esp in things we're weak at (eg penalty shoot outs). Job done.

Plus they're lacking in talent.

the season's too long and there are too many competitions. Scrap the League Cup, reduce the size of the Premiership to 16 teams. Let the resultant time be taken up by the national team training together, esp in things we're weak at (eg penalty shoot outs). Job done.

Haha this is mental.

Clubs also bigger and more important than the national side - tho I suppose that's probably true in many other countries

all this soul-searching after a 1-0 friendly defeat?

Yes, but losing to France, embarrassing or what?

the season's too long and there are too many competitions

Doesn't seem to bother all the very good players of other nationalities who play in England.

Scrap the League Cup

Hack the season apart just because the FA and the Premiership can't get their mutual act together and sort out proper coaching of, y'know, basic technique, with English players?

reduce the size of the Premiership to 16 teams

Even smaller pool of talent to choose from.

Job done.

Erm, no.

Yes, but losing to France, embarrassing or what?

Why embarrassing? They've got a better record than England's.

(Hint, it's a Scot talking...)

thought it was stupid how Lineker was saying it's going to be MORE boring under Capello (compared to previous two managers). not possible.

Why doesn't Egnland have an equivalent to Clairefontaine?

Who is Clairfontaine?

Or what, or whatever

they decided to spend all the money on new Wembley, i think, but it is supposed to be happening.

the other argument is that not enough English players develop as players abroad - but this didn't affect Italy or Germany much in the past.

French Youth Academy = better known as Arsenal FC

There are few things more satisfying than watching this self-important, humorless English side go down.

it's a tough call but i do prefer watching a team i want to win

There are few things more satisfying than watching this self-important, humorless English side go down.

-- Tracer Hand, Thursday, 27 March 2008 15:15 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Although I agree, the problem is that Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, and all your other "favourites" aren't actually affected on any level by England being shit.

any *personal level

i couldn't watch a game just on the basis that i wanted one of the teams to lose. i mean, what if they won? that would be awful!

England teams needs a tragic-comic, alcoholic manchild like Gazza to bring the lulz.

i couldn't watch a game just on the basis that i wanted one of the teams to lose. i mean, what if they won? that would be awful!

-- blueski, Thursday, 27 March 2008 15:20 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

It's like wrestling, you don't mind watching the evil Commie win a few matches, as long as he gets his comeuppance in the end.

or electing Boris so that we can watch him crash and burn a bendy bus

i couldn't watch a game just on the basis that i wanted one of the teams to lose

Are you sure you're actually a football fan?

^this

Newcastle had a good win against Fulham last week and I reckon that most neutrals would want the Magpies to retain their Premier League status.

The rather wonderful verb gufare means to support against, to wish bad luck upon. It comes from the noun gufo, meaning owl, since the owl in Italy (and Spain) is a symbol of bad luck. So football fans “owl” for another team.

In the metric system, a microgram is 1/1,000,000 of a gram (1 × 10-6), or 1/1000 of a milligram, is one of the smallest units of weight/mass commonly used. The abbreviation μg is often used in scientific literature, but JCAHO recommends that hospitals do not use this abbreviation in handwritten orders due to the risk that the greek letter μ could be mistaken for an m, resulting in a thousandfold overdose. The abbreviation mcg is recommended instead.[1]

shit sorry

"Crank That (Soulja Boy)" is the hit debut single by rapper Soulja Boy from his debut album Souljaboytellem.com. It spent seven weeks at number one on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 in 2007. The song is easily recognized with its steel pan melody. Soulja Boy performed the song on TRL and 106 & Park on August 27, 2007. He also performed it on the 2007 MTV Video Music Awards at Kanye West's Good Life Party.

Are you sure you're actually a football fan?

hey why else would i support England?

I can think of several teams I gufo.

guffaw

How does England feel about the upcoming USA friendly? Let me guess: dismissive.

Dismissive of the Enlgand team? Yes.

Considering how shit the US have been of late, they shouldn't.

Jozy Altidore isn't, y'know, awful.

tbh you can have Giuseppe Rossi back as well, we really don't need him in the Italian national team.

So what was England up to again while the US was beating a Euro qualifying team away by 3 goals again? Oh that's right, not qualifying, or winning, or even challenging the French goal. Keep playing like it's 1960 gentlemen. I hear the long ball is massively effective.

We would love to have Rossi -- except he seems to be drowning in denial.

when was the last time the US qualified for the Euros? exactly

Hi, mattttt!

I hear the long ball is massively effective

Scientific study proves that this is indeed the case

the long ball

we've started talking abt rugby now?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Chicks+dig+the+long+ball

How does England feel about the upcoming USA friendly? Let me guess: dismissive.

-- dan m, Thursday, 27 March 2008 16:10 (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

there is a friendly against the USA? I don't think most people know when there is a friendly against brazil coming up until a couple of weeks before, never mind against a team whose own country has little interest in it. so there is zero interest in the outcome of the game per se here, except where it provides opportunities to dislike frank lampard.

C'mon, you can dislike Lampard ANY day.

i forget why people do

he fat

cos he so fat....... something about yo momma

x-post

fat footballers are to be cherished

but not fat rich bastard ones

they're all rich

neville southall isn't

and david hillier is a fireman in bristol

they're all rich

So Andy Reid's one of the Top 10 most higly paid footballers in the world as well?

he is considerably rich than yow

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7372163.stm

Quality zinging from Lippi here, based around the central thesis that Robert Acquafresca is better than any English footballer currently playing.

Someone please suggest England's current best eleven. Otherwise I'm going to use this thread to lol at Trap's belief that "Robbie Keane can be an Irish Totti"

I like the sound of that

Beckham back as Captain, lol.

Or maybe Captain Lol

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7429342.stm

Capello could just suck off Jack Warner and save having to do this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7567928.stm

Biggest disappointment of the season so far.

meh. more disappointing is the england strikers selection.

Was a bit of a stretch to ask an northern Italian to pick the black guy over the white one, admittedly.

It's less that I particularly wanted any of the others to be captain and more that I take pleasure in things that annoy John Terry.

Theo Walcott will never have another game like this again.

Cocking hell. 3-0.

I'm sure the tabloids will assess this match in a measured, thoughtful way tomorrow.

IT'S CAPELLO'S NIGHT IN MUNICH.

Meanwhile Bosnia are beating Estonia 7-0. Lol.

i for one am enjoying plucky underdogs England taking globe-straddling Croatia to task, in their own back yard no less.

Over/under on "Absolutely Fabio" headlines tomorrow?

notice: apparently there is a free highlights package on a setanta channel at 10.45 - including the england game

I am not going to accept this is that good until Heskey starts doing the goal putt celebration.

Also fuck dodgy internet streams for choosing tonight to fuck up all at once.

I shudder at the thought of how vulgar the gutter press will be in reporting this tomorrow.

Franjo Tuđman , Paul Salopek, Janko Bobetko, Mate Boban, Ante Starčević, Željko Mavrović, Marija Petkovićve...Ivo Sanader, can you hear me? Your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!

Lol Lampard.

I shudder at the thought of how vulgar the gutter press will be in reporting this tomorrow.

― DavidM, Wednesday, 10 September 2008 21:29 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Permalink

"this" "tomorrow"

not even Luxembourg monumentous victory in Switzerland can overshadow this

IT'S COMING HOME
IT'S COMING HOME

looking forward to the 0-0 draw against Kazakhstan in October.

re headlines i'm plumping for FAB FOUR

Man what with this and the British donk beating the American donk I might just die of excitement.

I'm voting THEO PA-THREE-TIS

More happier about British donk winning than this shower, tbh.

an england performance to rank alongside:

Holland 1 England 4 - euro 1996

germany 1 england 5 - september 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/1515667.stm

ENGLAND ARE GONNA WIN THE WORLD CUP! AND THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE! AND THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE! AND WILL SUCCESSFULLY OPERATE THE HADRON MACHINE!

Sun rolling with TRIO WALCOTT

Setanta appear to be not showing the England highlights after all.

I just watched them on Setanta Ireland. THEO LOLCOTT!

Steven McManus is a tit, Gary Caldwell is a god, James McFadden is a shite penalty taker and, er, Kirk Broadfoot is an international footballer. It's good to be back.

Caldwell was impressive tonight.

hey this isn't the Burley thread (joeks)

Now, come on, I did mention England!

also, I read that as (jocks)

tartan army had a huge banner for http://www.noteamgb.com/

I has revived the Scottish football thread. Carry on, England.

Is it wrong that I laughed at Joe Cole and his bleedy head falling over? Then rewound it and laughed some more?

Youse were pish first half against Andorra, btw.

Yeah, we know

I'm actually really happy England won. Some of the utter shite coming from Bilic this week was sickening, especially for a guy who had a crap major tournament, "England are the same but we are better and better, we have the best players possible in every position". He teed up an English trouncing more than anyone. Bet he wishes the West Ham job was on the table now.

have to settle for newcastle, won't he?

So yeah England bought the ref right?

England played really well for one competitive game under Steve McClaren as well. Let's not get carried away.

(It may well be proveable that England play better with Heskey upfront, though)

Glans Christian Andersen

10/10 username, would roffle again.

not even Luxembourg monumentous victory in Switzerland can overshadow this

Oh, I don't know about that. Then there's Bosnia-Herzegovina's 7-0 walloping of Estonia.

France beat Serbia, last night.

It's a minefield in the Balkans right now.

Shame (xp)

DOMENECH DIAMOND: Plucky French hold off Serbian menace

Email I sent yesterday lunchtime:

I reckon we've got three points in the bag for tonight.

Croatia have got Eduardo and Krancjar injured, Luka Modric has been awful for Tottenham so far this season, and Niko Kovac is 37 - which is REALLY old (apologies, Marcus) - and tried to retire after the Euros.

In the two games we lost, we had no Ashley Cole, and in one of them, no Wayne Bridge either. We had no Rooney in the home game and played Crouch as a lone striker.
We played Scott Parker and Carrick in midfield in the away game, with Gary Neville as an attacking wing-back.
Just looking at the teams, it's no wonder we lost.

We'll see who plays tonight, but it'll be much more balanced. The only big player missing is Gerrard, and since we don't seem to have an effective way to play him, maybe that's no loss. Hope he plays Johnson instead of Wes Brown at RB, and that he plays Walcott and Joe Cole behind (and wide of) Rooney as a front three. Lets get at them!

Just wanted to crow, although I was wrong about the formation. I just can't bring myself to think that playing Heskey is a good idea.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty obvious we were going to win, and it's typical media reaction to say "no-one saw that coming" when they've been completely ignoring the bleeding obvious for ages, because it didn't fit the "narrative". We were alright against Andorra, and Croatia are clearly nowhere near the fifth best team in the world and have been wildly overachieving.

Yeah nobody looks good against someone like Andorra anyway.

I hate the glut of "Joe Cole must start" articles in the last week too, I mean most people I know and anyone who watches England has been saying that for ages. He's clearly one of those players who just performs and scores at international level, like Scholes used to.

Paul Scholes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Cole

I haven't enough >'s

Cole looks International class cos he's got the diving and rolling around on the floor in imaginary agony down.

Scholes is definitely better, but Cole is v good for England, he has always been good for them.

Yeah nobody looks good against someone like Andorra anyway.

Saturday, 06 September 2008
FIFA World Cup European Qualifying

Liechtenstein 0-6 Germany
Malta 0-4 Portugal

not even Luxembourg monumentous victory in Switzerland can overshadow this

Azerbaijan 0 Liechtenstein 0

Portugal 2 Denmark 3

England played really well for one competitive game under Steve McClaren as well.

not away from home against the top seed tho

Then there's Bosnia-Herzegovina's 7-0 walloping of Estonia

not a big surprise at all

xpost

I don't know, but I doubt whether those teams would play QUITE as negatively as Andorra, who had no desire to even attempt to score a lucky goal on the break or from a set piece. I've never seen anything like it. And they were then proud of their performance? They should be thrown out of football. It was despicable.

Saturday, 06 September 2008
FIFA World Cup European Qualifying

Liechtenstein 0-6 Germany
Malta 0-4 Portugal

jesus...andorra are worse than either of those too and in any case, a win is a win against a team that sets out for a 0-0.

if you really want to believe England are shit, even after last night's performance, then go ahead! I'm not even English, you'd swear half of you look forward to the post-knockout anti-prem rants...

Croatia did score 13 goals in 2 games against Andorra in the last campaign so no excuse for England really - but will be interesting to see if they can do the same this time (probably)

Garda is correct re Cole

I don't know, but I doubt whether those teams would play QUITE as negatively as Andorra, who had no desire to even attempt to score a lucky goal on the break or from a set piece. I've never seen anything like it.

You've never seen anything like it? Are you serious? All of those teams play the same.

Not even leaving one man up? playing with five in the six-yard box and the other five in the penalty area?

It took pointless, hopeless negativity to new levels.

They didn't set out for a 0-0, they set out to minimise how many they lost by. BAN ANDORRA.

Well they only lost 2-0, so it wasn't pointless or hopeless. San Marino losing 13-0 to Germany, that's hopeless!

Poland only 2-0 in San Marino. Romania only 1-0 vs Faroe Islands. someone else will go to these places and score 7 or 8 tho. there's still easy games, just not as much of the time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1420000/images/_1424849_green_300.jpg

THEY SHOULD BE THROWN OUT OF FOOTBALL. IT'S DESPICABLE.

OK, fair enough, but it offends my notions of sportsmanship (and now I sound like Louis).

Did anyone else actually watch the game?

I watched it, I didn't find Andorra that objectionable, I've seen worse

i think the result of the night has to be plucky team of defensive thugs andorra actually scoring a goal. just think of the joy on his face!

Rangers v Fiorentina. UEFA Cup semi-final. April 24th, 2008.

... I did something I've never ever done before while watching a football game, I fell asleep

how convenient

i mean obviously yay luxembourg woo walcott coo er jermaine jenas and all that but mario pujol will probably, and deservedly, be given a Pyrenee now

Was it a penalty?

Google tells me that of course it was!

People need to stop hating on anti-football. Catenaccio is a lot more interesting than 99.999% of other football styles. The football historian and critic Gianni Brera said the perfect game of football would end 0-0.

Tom - But Rangers at least had a vague plan to take it to penalties.

Anyway, I'm not sure about Joe Cole - he was pretty ineffectual last night before going off. I think we might end up with Walcott on the left and Gerrard on the right if everyone's fit. (Walcott is genuinely two-footed and played on the left wing for our youth team.)

Fabio Capello's faith in Theo Walcott transformed England's weather-beaten canvas into a lustrous work of art

English footballer was a low rent porno until Capello wiped the encrusted jizz from its plastic box and projected it across the London skyline in a daring Hirst like coup de grace.

seriously fucking ban richard williams

Being boring because you're too shite to do anything else is less bad than..... oh hold on, that covers Rangers too

English football was a two bit trance tune fronted by a robotic hollow diva, until Capello's picked up the Walcott trumpet and blasted colourful Charlie Parker style tones through the grey corporate world of football. BEPOP BEEDDADADADDA SKIBABABABABABABABABA

People need to stop hating on anti-football. Catenaccio is a lot more interesting than 99.999% of other football styles. The football historian and critic Gianni Brera said the perfect game of football would end 0-0.

3 points for a win. 1 for a draw. 1 for scoring, even if you lose. That would sort it out - maybe.

(So a win = 4 points, a score draw = 2 points, a scoring loss = 1 point, a 0-0 draw = 1 point, and a loss without scoring = 0 points)

joe cole >>>> gerrard as far as england is concerned, he plays well and contributes regular goalscoring

and yeah if richard williams wrote that he's even more of a self-absorbed prick than i suspected

if in doot, cheetyerwee oot

Joe Cole was ineffectual partly because they had apparently been instructed to put it out wide right to Walcott at every opportunity.

FiveLive was speculating that could have been the last ever Beckham cap last night, for old time's sake.

Charlie Parker on trumpet?!?!??!

^ an ILM pedant writes

Typical England, always playing jazz musicians out of position.

English football was a "visuals artist" in a Shoreditch bedsit, back from a three day binge at a rave where he looped 1950s footage of old people, until Capello cut off the ear that is Michael Carrick and daubed magnificent sunflowers across Slaven Bilic's vulgar earringed face...

lol matt (and ronan)

jamie, bring that about and ppl wd settle for scoring draws if it was 1-1 or whatever

my favourite antifootball moment of the year was when Greece passed the ball between their back four against Sweden for about five minutes, and Jim Beglin's heart nearly exploded at the affront to the Way The Game Should Be Played, despite his initial attempts to adopt a faux-gracious "you have to give them credit, it works" stance

English football is now a "supergroup" featuring Billy Corgan, John Lennon, Miles Davis, and Liam Gallagher on one fingered piano.

actually wait, no, because 4 points for a win

look it just sounds stupid THE CLOSED-MINDED TABLOID PUBLIC WILL NEVER KOW-TOW TO YOUR SCHEMES

Also if a team only needed a point to win the leg they'd throw 11 men forward in the first 10 minutes until they got a goal then fuck off doing the victory lap for the rest of the game, paying no heed to their now irrelvant goal difference being annihilated

that'd be fucking amazing though

i like Bilic even more now that he's been punched by morris dancers and had a fry-up dropped down his beige trousers.

quick somebody make a joke about winning the leg

English football is now a "supergroup" featuring Billy Corgan, John Lennon, Miles Davis, and Liam Gallagher on one fingered piano.

And still Bobby "Boaby" Gillespie awaits George Burley's phone call

ps antifootball is now an ILX meme, to be used upon killjoys and point-missers alike

England's football victory transformed Richard Williams weather beaten canvas into a Laura Barton work of art.

England's football victory transformed Richard Williams weather beaten face into a Joey Barton work of art.

ps antifootball is now an ILX meme, to be used upon killjoys and point-missers alike YEE-HAWS

fickshed

Antifootball is a failed meme in the making if ever I saw one.

What about "failed meme" as a meme?

Jimbo just wanted to be the Peter Gabriel of Toryglen up till then

antifootball from ilx's own andorran defender xxpost

How did that happen? (xp)

I don't think that Richard Williams is a bad writer. The other day I reread his review of Dylan's OH MERCY LP from 1989 and it was as insightful and well-turned as the other 200 times I have read it.

It is strange how people want to pick out and pick on certain figures like him. Or perhaps it is not strange, given the people. I don't agree with all or half of what he says about football, but it does not make sense to me to be so vehement against this decent, eloquent fellow in a media world so full of utter scumbags.

I heard he writes all his articles from his cellar dungeon, dictating them to his young typist Maddie.

it's more the crass inference that the inclusion of theo walcott was the spur for an artistic reinvention of team england. he took his goals very well, but the good performance was aided by a) a subdued croatia side, b) some luck, c) and yes c) a slightly more patient, slow-build (continental) approach to football in all areas of the field. a very good performance, yes, but not a magic transformation.

Come anticipate England's turgid 0-0 draw in Kazakhstan with me!

well I know Pinefox dislikes Laura Barton.....I dislike Williams for similar reasons.

I have not read RW's latest article. If anyone believes in a magic transformation of this team then I think they are mistaken.

My problem with Barton I suppose is her strained 6th-form pretentiousness. I don't really think Williams has that, though it's true that he is unusually an 'aesthete' type for a sportswriter (and he's not only a sportswriter).

unusually? so you haven't heard of barnes, winter, lawton (the other 3 broadsheets' equivalents)

I hate broadsheet football writing

Lawton is comparable, perhaps more a moralist than an aesthete? (They go together, perhaps, here.) Barnes I do not read. Winter I would not trust - I assume he is a right-wing hack and I don't think he is any kind of idealist, far from it.

I wouldn't mind him being an "aesthete" except that to me it's so pompous, plus in sport a team wins a game, and history records that, in art nobody wins. Plus that metaphor above about the well worn canvas is just really bad, dull writing to me.

My problem with both of them is that they play on this idea that referencing "great works" somehow enhances their prose by default, but neither ever do it in a way that makes me think or pick particularly thought provoking parts of a "great work" to quote/use.

EG Barton quoting Proust a few weeks back and just picking some ultra simple line to back up a glowing indie review...I mean if you're going to quote those people I'm not sure just a line works anyway. The parts of Musil or Flaubert or whoever I'd want to quote are 3/4 pages long.

If you're going to write about football it helps if you know a bit about football first, then you can do all the fanndydangle I'm-a-proper-writer stuff afterwards, these guys usu. do it the other way round

ronan completely otm, nothing to add

David Lacey was even worse. Whole articles of clever clever word play saying NOTHING. Plus when he did say something he was always wrong.

I hate broadsheet football writing

I know what you mean, but I don't mind the rest of the Guardian's lot. Paul Doyle is always good, but he's usually only online.

The fact that they were ALWAYS WRONG, is what stopped me reading the Guardian's football apges

I don't mind Kevin McCarra.

Martin Kelner is good tho he writes more about TV coverage etc.

That was around the time that Arsenal were playing the best football that ever been played in the history of the universe ever ever ever - whenever that last happened, as it does periodically (xp)

Henry Winter was the most unashamed Gooner poet IIRC.

I've always wondered why there are no Arsenal fans on ILX

all living in their hampstead mansions counting their millions amirite

That's the players

all living in their hampstead terraced apartments counting their signed henry shirts

in art nobody wins

sorry but this made me laugh, maybe even out loud!

why?

just in that "they used to say i'd never make it as a stand-up but NOW who's laughing?" kinda sense.

I've always wondered why there are no Arsenal fans on ILX

Hi there! I forgot to mention because every football thread turns in to a Spurs discussion, so I ran away and hid.

Not wishing to intrude on private grief etc etc etc

Ha ha ha

you people are fucking MENTAL!

Big slagging off not just of Barton (OK) and Williams (I don't really agree but this is predictable) but also David Lacey (who knows more about football than most of us will ever know about anything), while praising www hack Paul Doyle and, and, and ...

wait for it

OK, deep breath

...

MARTIN KELNER!!!

I rest my (pillow) case.

Incidentally, I would like to reassure ILX's small contingent of Spurs fans that I will be bringing my nine game strong Aston Villa Away Jinx to White Hart Lane this Monday. Previous beneficiaries of my morale-sapping presence have included Marlon Harewood (16 goals a season West Ham vintage), Nicklas Bendtner and, perhaps most shockingly, Charlton Athletic FC.

haha....gimme Kelner over Williams any day.

well, once a week

Sorry pinefox, but David Lacey? You could not be more wrong.

Unless you were David Lacey yourself

To be honest if I was given a load of unbylined football comment articles I'd find it pretty difficult to put a name to any of them apart from maybe Martin Samuel or Adrian Chiles doing his 'remember the day West Brom stayed up' thing.

I do quite like the Fiver-style "all football is shit" tongue in cheek liveblogged coverage in the Graun tbh, it beats fucking Fletch and Cheesey and the gang

Martin Samuel is amazingly obese

yeah but there's that French football pundit who is basically their Samuel but another 10 stone heavier

http://ilovebubbadogs.com/bubbapress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/andre.jpg

this guy, yeah?

I think Aston Villa could very well win at WHL on Monday.

In fact that is so obvious it was not worth stating.

Why is Harry Pearson a great football writer for When Saturday Comes and an absolutely dreadful one for The Guardian? Sub-editing?

Writing for your audience

The reason I picked out Paul Doyle is that he is the opposite of Lacey/Williams in that he isn't even trying to be a "great writer", but knows ABSOLUTELY LOADS about African and French football and seems to have boundless enthusiasm for it, which he communicates. Same goes for their Eastern European football guy, whose name temporarily escapes me. Not that good a writer, but he knows his stuff really well, and he loves it, and that comes across.

David Lacey communicated enthusiasm for nothing but his own tired, pretentious, vacuous writing.

I don't want to read 'good' football writing, I want to read clear, authoritative and enthusiastic football writing.

TBH I've come to the same conclusion about music writing.

OTM

OI GEEZER YEAH OTM KEEP IT CLEAR AN ENFUSIATIC ALRIGHT TMFD

I want to read good writing, about anything. I wish Stevie T were here to be amused or dismayed with.

I don't think Harry Pearson is dreadful for the Guardian. Next to Martin Kelner he reads like Walter Benjamin.

If you say Doyle knows a lot about those nations' football, good. The East European one you have in mind may be Jonathan Wilson, who has written a book and is a pretty decent writer.

But your comments on Lacey make it difficult for me to take seriously anything else you say. How old are you? Lacey started writing in about 1966, I think. I read him from about 1986 onwards. He can be faulted on knowing too much, in a way - compulsively dropping in facts from very very ancient history. And I have sometimes found him actually TOO factual; and also not ENOUGH of an aesthete - he's actually a bit of blokeish pragmatist, in his football views. But to call him 'pretentious' ... suggests that you don't know what the word means, or you are actually thinking of some other writer.

If he knows so much, how come he gets so much wrong? That's what I object to.

yeah what is this, ARTS journalism?

I accept that he might once have been good and have fallen off. I'm actually quite old, but didn't start reading the football in the Guardian till a few years ago, maybe the last few before he retired

I think pretentious is the right word, as he would dress bland statements of the obvious in pretty similes and horrible word play. It seemed more about the words he was using than what he was saying. That isn't good writing. It's someone aiming at "good writing" and failing.

I don't think it's geezerish to want clarity and enthusiasm in your writing. (Was George Orwell a geezer?) I'm very ungeezerish myself in real life, by the way.

The other thing about David Lacey is that he retired from football writing with all sort of fanfares and encomia and then umpteen years later HE WAS STILL THERE

This has turned into another Guardian-bashing thread, hasn't it? How did that happen?

I have sometimes found him actually TOO factual; and also not ENOUGH of an aesthete

Antijournalism! Send him to Andorra.

Yeah but what about the new Thierry Henry, eh? I mean Theo Walcott, of course, surely to lead England and Arsenal to glory for years and years to come.

Also has anyone mentioned the absurd and scary Setanta three lions intro that goes on forever and ever and the terrible guy who thesped about going in to battle before they'd deem it worthy to show the highlights of the England game? It made me want to not watch football anymore.

I only started reading football journalism kinda recently, and what struck me - as I read Martin Samuel belittling people and not actually reading any of the words they wrote - was that it was all pretty awful.

ILX Gooners = me, Julio

Nick Uptoeleven as well.

Richard Williams is a blokey aesthete. an old blokey aesthete.

David Lacey did not retire from football writing with all sorts of fanfares and encomia. I can tell you exactly how I found out how he was retiring. I was in a pub in Sandycove, Fitzgerald's I think it's called, on perhaps 17 June 2002, with a pint of Guinness, Belgium - Brazil on TV and the day's Guardian in front of me. A small note in a corner said something like 'David Lacey will retire as the Guardian's football correspondent at the end of the World Cup'. That was it, that was the announcement. At tournament's end they ran a page or so of his old works - not classics, on the whole - in celebration. That was that. McCarra, I suppose, was then hired, and I think he was done a pretty superb job, and is a fine writer in his own right. I would probably rather read McCarra than Lacey NOW, at least.

It's true of course that Lacey stayed on to write a weekly column and generally one match report a week. This does muddy the water of what 'retirement' means. Nancy Banks-Smith (whom I don't particularly like at all) DID announce her own retirement and was greeted by a shoal of protest, and is still writing for the Guardian to this day I believe.

The geezer debate has a long history which can perhaps be found elsewhere on ilx. I am not especially convinced that Enthusiasm is a good quality in a writer. There are all kinds of subjects about which one might not, or should not, feel at all enthusiastic.

it's not as cut and dried as geezer vs aesthete, this is silly.

Williams may not be a geezer but that doesn't mean his prose should be let off the hook. Just because he tries to bring in themes that you might not normally read in football does not exonerate a crap metaphor like the above painting one, in any case the idea of people vaguely musing about art in football writing is pretty hackneyed.

I thought clumsily shoehorning art metaphors into football discourse was pretty much stock in trade for a certain segment of the media? See also the BBC coverage of every international tournament since 1990 or thereabouts.

the future of England...

under 21 draw, winners of these ties join hosts Sweden in euro under 21 tournament next june

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/under21/news/kind=1/newsid=748709.html

Germany v France
Denmark v Serbia
Turkey v Belarus
Austria v Finland
Wales v England
Italy v Israel
Switzerland v Spain

When I finally read that Richard Williams article, I thought the art aspect was pretty good. It showed a knowledge of an actual Italian art movement, not just generalized BS about sport as art, and the whole thing partly revolved around a joke about the England team being like a Dadaist urinal. The painting phrase quoted upthread was, I think, a subheading bit added by a copyeditor or whatever.

DC says the BBC have 'clumsily shoehorned' art into football discourse. (When did anyone who uses this kind of talk, certainly including me, last use a shoehorn, clumsily or otherwise?) It's true that there is some kind of marginal slo-mo aestheticism around the edges of tournament coverage - and I am happy with that. But the central reality, as we must all surely remember, is Adrian Chiles asking Lee Dixon about how full-backs mark, Alan Hansen declaring the first half of a game the worst he's ever seen, Shearer saying 'I've been impressed with them, I really have' and Lawro saying 'exciting game -- NOT'. Not really a lot of art around.

I used a shoehorn about six weeks ago actually, while trying on a pair of shoes in a shop. It's not an action that's easy to perform with a huge amount of grace.

Anyway Walcott's performance is as good an excuse as any for me to start banging on about the need to promote Ashley Young and Gaby Agbonlahor to the senior squad sooner rather than later. Can't remember the last time there was an England team with much in the way of pace.

I have never used a shoehorn.

I have never attempted to squeeze a quart into a pint pot.

England will play friendly internationals against Slovakia and Slovenia at Wembley in 2009, the Football Association has announced.
Fabio Capello's side will face Slovakia on 28 March, three days before the home World Cup qualifier against Ukraine.
Slovenia will be England's opponents on 5 September ahead of the Group six match against Croatia on 9 September.
"It's very important to play similar style opposition as practice for the competitive matches," Capello said.

reminiscent of what Sven said re playing Jamaica to prepare for playing Trinidad & Tobago

mid-ranking countries England haven't played this decade:

Norway (last met in '95)
Ireland (last met in '95)
Bulgaria (last met in '99)
Belgium (last met in '99)
Scotland (last met in '99)

Fifa has fined the Croatian Football Federation £15,000 for racist behaviour by their fans during the World Cup qualifier with England on 10 September.

YEAH, THAT'LL LEARN 'EM

15k is Bilic's wage for three years though.

He tops that up with income from his band.

He's in Skrewdriver?

RAWBAU

So, about that dawning of an exciting new era, eh lads?

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/TEE_RIPJ/BOJS002~Women-s-Borat-I-Heart-Kazakhstan-Posters.jpg

(to be revised at fulltime, no doubt)

Also they've kidnapped Rooney and replaced him with a bricklayer.

need 4-3-2-1 with Owen up front

The Wembley pitch is still as big and slow as its always been.

Kazakhstan should be 1-0 up.

The Wembley pitch England team is still as big and slow as its always been.

http://seoulcurry.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/bob-the-builder.jpg

that's more like it!

LOL@KAZAKHSTAN

I really think England can go on and win now, if they put 10 men behind the ball.

WHO THE FUCK IS BORAT????

all v reminiscent of Albania game 7 years ago

England "putting Kazakhstan in their place" there, ITV cheerfully inform us

Even compared to the BBC commentators Tyldesly and Pleat are full of jingoistic crap.

you'd think they were Englishmen!

I know it's a vain hope, but a little bit of objectivity is not too much to ask for, surely.

why, do we get objectivity with the cricket?

i wonder how few places below England a country could be in the rankings before 'putting X in their place' wouldn't come up (it comes in the context of goal-less first half tho)

Game's not on Scottish TV, btw, so jingoism not as annoying as it is on the BBC (am watching via the magicks of Sky)

x-post Relative to football, cricket is objective, although that's still not saying much.

Jingoism is fair enough I reckon, it's just that Pleat is a complete fucking arsehole whatever he says.

BBC is always less jingoistic than ITV! Tho Motty most at fault for jingoism at the Beeb.

Flukey second goal!

Motty most at fault for jingoism at the Beeb

Only cos Barry "Look at that disgusting cheating foreigner, they don't like it up 'em the fuzzy wuzzies you know" Davies has been retired.

What a load of complete horseshit.

What, Barry Davies or England?

steady on pinefox, they may yet scramble a third xp bah

LOL

Everybody knows you can't just sit deep and hang on against quality opposition like Kazakhstan.

i've just accepted England will always struggle and perform poorly against the lower-ranked teams

four words too many there.

England fans may be wishing Capello had fallen through a TRAPP door.

BORE-AT

ROO ARE YA

a goal using feet...just imagine it!

Nice to see Rooney representing for male pattern baldness sufferers.

and ferrety beard wearers

he's gonna look like john mccririck in 20 years

I see Wales are sticking it to the Liechtensteiners.

FOUR-AT

I DON'T RECALL THIS GAME IN MUNICH YOU MENTION CLIVE....I DON'T RECALL IT.

same scoreline and everything!

i mean sure it was 0-0 in Munich until the last minute but still

hope it stays 0-0 in Kiev

a game you may just remember ... seven years ago ... two years after that magical night in Barcelona ... and four years before that amazing night of drama in Istanbul

That was the worst 5-1 victory I have ever seen. Stevie Me is a serial international bottler and should never play in an England shirt ever again.

However, Shaun Wright-Phillips shoulder-barging a Kazakhstan player off the ball = classic to the power of 100.

not sure how much of that was to do with SWP tho

if it had been 1 or 2-0 at half-time maybe it probably wouldn't be seen as a bad performance. i'd take a showing like that in Belarus if it meant a win by just one goal (as long as i can just watch the highlights).

It's good the national team can still lift us at this time of international turmoil. Although it may be moot if we get thrown out of the competition due to military action in Iceland.

It's not like you're us, and IN THE SAME GROUP AS THEM.

Shame this isn't an actual league, "you're going down with your bankers" has a nice ring to it.

fucking steven gerrard lost the ball attempting a stupid hollywood pass i don't know how many times, he is a waste of fucking space

Wayne Rooney is now almost as good as he was in 2004.

steven gerrard no longer a waste of space altho LOL haha

Before anyone jumps on me with a 'yeah its only Belarus' I'm counting recent Man United performances as well. Lets just ride the good times until that inevitable New Year career-ruining injury by Some Loser From Stoke.

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45112000/jpg/_45112489_rooney466_282pa.jpg

http://ns25552.ovh.net/~nofatcli/daddy/cometodaddy.jpg

He was a bit thinner when he was chatting up the old grannies eh?

http://ronanfitzgerald.net/random%20stuff/COMETOROON.jpg

Stevie G - my tasty hero again

i think a decent keeper would have saved steven gerrard's shot fairly comfortably

and probably wouldn't get rounded like 3 times

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7729516.stm

Mancienne's a class act, pleased for him.

I hope for your sake he's better than that other numptie you gave our country.

Glad to see you're not holding onto a grudge there big guy.

(About that other thing we discussed a few weeks back - sorry to be so tardy, we went on holiday for a week and I've been a bit in La La Land since then. Will contact you with firm proposal this week, promise.)

Why on earth am I watching this? The only thing that interests me is the performance of Michael Carrick.

the war + nazis mentioned 19:51

1966 mentioned less than 1 min later

Where can I get a coat like Joachim Low's?

loal!

Didn't realise Gomes was playing for Germany.

Oh and Jim, I will forgive the big fella when he scores a winner in a qualifying game, but til then that miss will forever remain in my memory.

I hope for your sake he's better than that other numptie you gave our country.

Now, come on, Kenny Miller's scored a few important goals for us...

Carson to Spurs

THIS FUCKING BETTER BE PART OF SOME STUART PEARCE REDEMPTION NARRATIVE THING WHERE 37 YEAR OLD SCOTT WORK EXPERIENCE CARSON SAVES A PENALTY IN THE FUCKING WORLD CUP FINAL

AT LEAST BARRY CARRICK IS THE MOST OBNOXIOUSLY COMPOSED CENTRAL MIDFIELD PAIRING IMAGINABLE AY

Log out of your girlfriend's email account before posting, son.

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOOT HI IM CANADIAN EH

scottkeith.jpg

Were Capello and Pearce arm in arm there?

"far more penetrative up front"

Well, Downing and Wright-Phillips have both had really good games. I don't think I'd ever realised just how physically strong SWP is, he's been riding challenges and keeping control of the ball really well all night.

THIS FUCKING BETTER BE PART OF SOME STUART PEARCE REDEMPTION NARRATIVE THING WHERE 37 YEAR OLD SCOTT WORK EXPERIENCE CARSON SAVES A PENALTY IN THE FUCKING WORLD CUP FINAL

AT LEAST BARRY CARRICK IS THE MOST OBNOXIOUSLY COMPOSED CENTRAL MIDFIELD PAIRING IMAGINABLE AY

[Lisa tears off a strip of wallpaper]
Marge: Lisa, what are you doing?
Lisa: Just trying to fill the void of random, meaningless destruction
Bart's absence has left in our hearts.
[Homer walks in; Lisa trips him]
Marge: Oh, that's sweet, honey.

England were... worthy winners, weren't they?

Finally realised who Capello looks like too: Sully out of Sesame Street. Apologise if this has already been pointed out.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/thumb/3/3c/Sully.jpg/300px-Sully.jpg

hahaha great spot

England squad:
Goalkeepers: Robert Green (West Ham), Joe Hart (Man City), David James (Portsmouth).
Defenders: Wayne Bridge (Man City), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Rio Ferdinand (Man Utd), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Glen Johnson (Portsmouth), John Terry (Chelsea), Matthew Upson (West Ham), Luke Young (Villa).
Midfielders: David Beckham (LA Galaxy), Gareth Barry (Villa), Michael Carrick (Man Utd), Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), James Milner (Villa), Shaun Wright-Phillips (Man City), Ashley Young (Villa).
Forwards: Gabriel Agbonlahor (Villa), Carlton Cole (West Ham), Peter Crouch (Portsmouth), Emile Heskey (Villa).

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m6r9z5.jpg

it's...as if they knew

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m6r9z5.jpg

I DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOOT HI IM CANADIAN EH

― reggaeton shark (salsa shark), Wednesday, 19 November 2008 21:27 (2 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^this guy should post to more football threads imo

lol a few tap-ins later and Carlton Cole goes from reviled journeyman to England elite

IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU

no harsh feelings of course, CC ;-)

^this guy should post to more football threads imo

I dunno whether it's possible to be a "stan" of an ILX poster, but yeah.

where's rooney

He is injured, unfortunately. For quite a while.

Spanish Radio Nacional currently reporting that England fans have been THROWING ORANGES AND OTHER FRUIT around. Then in same breath the presenter adds that the English media haven't been going heavy on any racism-in-Spain stories in the run-up. Just as well, since England is hardly on the moral high ground now its fans are throwing perfectly edible citrus products around, eh?

ITV's bigging up of their FA Cup coverage isn't fooling anyone, you know. Why am I thinking about watching this? Just because it's not Minder-starring-Shane-Richie?

487 people at the Wales game. Good reaction to Toshack's new contract eh?

to be fair, it was a friendly. In Portugal. And, er, it's Wales :-)

shit, thanks for reminding me this was on

i finally just realized why i haven't learned anything about football since being in the UK and it's because i've been listening to the television commentators instead of 5live

The only thing you'll learn off Alan Green is just how badly you want to punch Alan Green in the mouth.

The Spanish fans booed the English national anthem.

The Spanish players came out late.

David Pleat said 'clever, technical players'.

hey Robbie Keane has scored twice, in Ireland!

nice camera work itv.

'mexican wave'?? isn't it just 'the wave'?

Jaaames

"A Villa-dominated England team are behind to a player called Villa".

Yes, well done.

I'm sort of hoping that this England team will get beaten 4-0 or so. I'm not sure why. I guess I've often felt that way. OK that ain't gonna happen, but they could always do with being taught a lesson.

A LESSON IN A FOOTBALLING SENSE

is it because you hate the villa?

For some reason I think that if we lose 4-0 it would just be "oh, its just a friendly, with no rooney/gerrard/walcott/lampard etc. against the world champions" and treated as a non story. For once papers can misguidedly grab onto the silly notion of England having a chance when it comes to the world cup, whereas under McLaren it would have been FOR SHAAAME.

haha sheringham repeating the pinefox

no, I don't. I've never liked them, but I like Martin O'Neill a lot so that has changed my feelings I think. Probably like a lot of other people.

Terry Sherrinan is talkinn on TV

oh did Sherrinan say a lesson in a footballing sense ??

nah, he just said "we've been taught a footballing lesson"

Andy Townsend seems to think maybe that Heskey isn't that talented !!!

anyone got a working stream of this?

http://www.justin.tv/dragonblades5 is working for me

enjoying pleat tonight as he backs himself down various verbal cul-de-sacs.

the music is making pleat speak faster

you can watch it on itv.com legally btw.

Pleat needs taking out to the paddock to be shot.

Andres Iniesta however, needs to get his arse into gear and get on a plane to sign for Liverpool, he's fantastic. The pass he produced on 41 minutes was art.

while he's at it, he can bring Xavi and Sergio Ramos.

i think itv.com is windows-only

pleat and motson together would be fun

how easy has it been for spain to work out england's threat in the first 10 minutes and then just sit on it very efficiently...

and itv's online component is uk-only i think (i can't get it to work)

there';s only ten minutes left but try here: http://www.channelsurfing.net/

fearless and forceful, eh

another player with an asset, a good asset, good in the air

boring game, more even than was being made out, although Spain were slightly on top

ITV need to die

beckham toking before the game?

that was a logistical beatdown

Slightly? They slightly had the ball for about about 80 minutes.
xxp

England actually had more chances, somehow

Big Sam: 'we'll never be as good as them'

this fellow was interviewed for England manager's job

Sheringham is surprisingly incisive, maybe - I didn't expect it

England's players are more affected by the recession than their Iberian counterparts.

Big Sam: the baby's head talks!

did any of you see the Ireland game? gotta be honest and say that was about the worst refereeing decision I've ever seen that got us the first goal. that said people say trappatoni is a lucky manager after every single game. he must be offering us something.

mcgeady had far and away his best ever game for Ireland tonight and keith andrews looks great too, doesn't make errors at least. glenn whelan v poor imo, gives the ball away non stop. keane got the goals but kevin doyle is a real Irish player, brilliant workrate.

i would have preferred that one Ro but my TV didn't pick it up. the england game was truly horrendous, like watching a heavyweight boxer toy with a punching bag.

England actually had more chances, somehow

not sure how this is measured but however it is measured it is clearly useless as far as establishing a metric for "did this team have a chance in hell".

the commentary kept speaking of "positive" moves by england, which as far as i could see meant various attempts to make solo runs against three defenders and then losing the ball or falling down. or lofting long passes up to the big man which were intercepted. if that's "positive" then you can keep it.

I'm sort of hoping that this England team will get beaten 4-0 or so

It's funny, but England teams never get beat 4-0 or whatever, no matter how terrible they are. I wonder if England teams don't treated with too much respect.

Ronan/PF/Anyone that's seen the Ireland game on TV-

what was the penalty given for? or was it as unclear to TV viewers?

England did lose 4-1 to Denmark...but hey it was only a friendly...

When was that?

August 2005

heaviest defeat since Wales in 1980!

I saw the words 'Carlton Cole' and didn't bother watching. Sounds like I didn't miss a great deal.

I think Carlton Cole is unfairly saddled with the same name as Carlton Palmer.

and they both have a cousin Will

Too many Coles in general

c. cole completely whiffed england's most open shot on goal all night (on a pass from beckham, obv)

i didn't see the stats on possession.. it really felt like 90%-10% for the majority of the game.

He didn't really "whiff" it, Reina saved it.

Also, SWP working hard to join the All-England Divers All-Star Team, but some way to go before he can compete with Owen, Gerrard, J. Cole

he's not a diver he really can't help falling over so much

Interesting that, these days, England dive more than Spain

OK, arguable, but not much in it

Tom i of course meant "whiff" in the metaphorical sense here, but i can see how in this context it would be misleading.

I was trying to watch on a particularly jerky stream. It made for terrible watching, but it was quite interesting to see the patterns of possession without being distracted by effort and fancy tricks and that. My viewing went something like this:

frame 1 - Spain comfortably in possession on the halfway line
frame 2 - Xavi gets the ball midway inside the England half
frames 3 to 7 - sideways passes as the white shirts are pulled about in pursuit of the ball, red shirts interchanging at will
frame 8 - red shirt turning on the edge of the box
frame 9 - forward breaking past last man
(unseen - last-ditch tackle)
frame 10 - white shirt on the ball, looking for options
frame 11 - as frame 1

uncanny!

Darragh the penalty was given for a handball apparently. It was outrageous, the ball skimmed the top of one of the defenders shoulders on its way to Keane in an offside position. The linesman flagged, presumably for the offside, but the ref gave a penalty. It's unclear if the ref responded to the linesman or not but they had a bit of a chat with the ref seemingly standing firm.

V v strange.

it looked exactly like that level of a fuckup from the stands, but without the benefit of replays it left us clueless.

v v welcome tho.

He didn't really "whiff" it, Reina saved it.

didn't marchena block it? I thought Carlton Cole did v well with that chance.

x-post yeah it was utterly insane, like people say worst decision they've ever seen all the time but that really was. some of the papers today say Keane scored the second with the same part of his shoulder. is it true there were about 20,000 empty seats? Irish sports teams are really stepping up to the recession plate.

which as far as i could see meant various attempts to make solo runs against three defenders and then losing the ball or falling down.

I noticed this too, very annoying

xpost

short of hill 16 being empty (i assumed this was for regulation reasons about terraces myself) there didn't seem to be too many. plenty of tickets bought on the door at knockdown prices i'd say.

starting to really fancy us for second place. i was working through the game, so could only dip in and out of the action. everyone seemed to agree mcgeady did very well, which i find hard to believe but will grudgingly accept. never rated him before.

from the bits i did see, doyle looked to be playing well and robbie keane looked to be doing very little. these may have been unrepresentative passages of play tho, and credit to robbie for getting the 2 goals. andrews is a welcome addition i think, given that trap would play gibson and whelan otherwise - not a huge fan of whelan and *certainly* not a fan of gibson. we could still really do with trap getting over his dislike of andy reid, stephen reid getting over his injuries, or daddy dick getting over his, eh, issues.

robbie had a bad game. was more noticeable for his incessant harrassment of the ref while the ball bounced a yard in fornt of him than anything else. but that seemed to work, and doyle didn't look like getting two goals for all his work rate.

mcgeady was pretty good all night, apart from a 15 minute period in the second half when he was brilliant.

centre mid was poor both off and on the ball all night. for all that both lads are temporary stopgaps, italy could inflict huge damage on confidence against a pairing like gibson and andrews/whelan.

I see McGeady play every week and he's easily the most talented/skilful player in Scotland and possibly the most infuriating at the same time. It's good that he can transfer that to the international arena :)

last night was impressive all round, but yeah he's had his off nights for the boys in green alright.

stephen hunt must feel hard done by, but can't see where he fits in with duff, keane, doyle, and mcgeady all fit. trap isn't going to introduce an in-the-hole-paul-scholes-goals-against-the-poles position just for him.

hunt's always best off the bench for us anyway. he can still play a big part, but not in the starting xi. damien duff is well past his best, but he does seem to take almost all of the creative responsibility (tho maybe mcgeady is now ready to share this burden). a contrast with robbie keane, who is usually hiding when the going gets tough.

Heskey!

Amazing piece of skill by Gerrard to set that one up.

LOL the duality of Heskey

also that was a *fabulous* goal

if it wasn't an og

Green's ire at the new strip and delayed KO actually entertaining in a way.

Speaking of Green, why does he keep dropping the word "quote" into the middle of sentences?

he does?

Just now: poor corner from new sub Beckham.

Lawro: "Get 'im off ... he's never been a crosser".

In the Northern Ireland game NI have just scored after Boruc took a fresh air swipe after a backpass. He's been making howlers all game after costing the 1st goal.

xp yeah I think it's and indicator he's dropping some challops. And I think Lawro was attempting irony there.

"substitutes are a big part of the game these days!"

partnering rooney has been a poisoned chalice today

So is Rooney the only fit English striker left in the country?

i've been calling for lampard-rooney partnership for ages

meanwhile, UFO spotted in Belfast:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45612000/gif/_45612138_atrouble.gif

Surely just play Rooney as Gerrard's Torres w/ Lamps and Barry behind (and Young/Joe Clole on the left and whoever's playing best out of Lennon/Theo/SWP/Beckham) and you'd finally have everyone playing where they play best together? There is no striker in the country bar Rooney who is actually of an international grade, although if Ablongahor/Defoe have good seasons next year they can be back-up to him.

Rooney isn't very good as a lone striker though. You never see him play that role for Man United and he's never done it very well for England. Not that we'll have any choice against Ukraine barring a recovery from one of the others.

Maybe Owen will get a call up

True but I think with a very attacking, fast midfield behind him that's encouraged to go join him and be part of the action, Rooney could be a very good lone striker. The only times I ever really seen him in the role it was McLaren's insipid side with Lampard and Gerrard getting confused who should go forward with neither actually doing so + no real help from the wings, or a United side that's kind of slow (Scholes, Giggs), likes to sit back and do the playmaker thing (Anderson, Carrick) or just isn't focused in the art of attacking because he's busy doing the other stuff (Fletcher, Park) and Ronaldo having a free role.

A fast, attacking minded midfield - hell even Barry is a box to box guy trying to get in on the action when he plays at his best - would be a lot different.