All ya'll who are sleeping, you can probably breeze through the last 2000+ pages in a week. They're that good.
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Monday, 31 October 2005 19:56 (eighteen years ago) link
0 of 14 people found the following review helpful:A game of Thrones, October 26, 2005Reviewer: Patricia L. Spilovoy (Tennessee) - See all my reviews(REAL NAME) I didn;t see the book. I ordered it for my son and he said he recieved it. That;s all I know.
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― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 31 October 2005 20:02 (eighteen years ago) link
How many are planned for the series as a whole? Or has he said? (Like I've mentioned before, I've read enough into the first book to know I'm probably going to like the rest and will patiently wait for it to conclude, then go nuts with them all at once.)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 October 2005 20:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Monday, 31 October 2005 20:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 October 2005 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Monday, 31 October 2005 20:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 31 October 2005 22:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 October 2005 22:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mingus Dew (Mingus Dew), Monday, 31 October 2005 23:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Monday, 31 October 2005 23:39 (eighteen years ago) link
six books planned.
i understand it's now swelled to seven as feast for crows is only really half a book. [whilst it centres on kings landing, events happening simultaneously elsewhere are left for the next one. which hopefully will not take another 5 years.]
― mason_storm, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 00:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link
The manuscript for the fifth volume is half written:
* A Dance with Dragons
In a May 2005 statement, the author estimates that the entire series will require seven volumes. The seventh book will likely be required because Martin had to move some of the character arcs of the A Feast for Crows manuscript into A Dance with Dragons. Martin recognized that this decision could cause frustration among some of his fans, stating that: "I know some of you may be disappointed, especially when you buy A Feast for Crows and discover that your favorite character does not appear, but given the realities I think this was the best solution... and the more I look at it, the more convinced I am that these two parallel novels, when taken together, will actually tell the story better than one big book."
Martin originally intended the series to be a trilogy, but later increased that estimate, explaining "What can I say? It's a BIG story, and a cast of thousands."
When A Storm of Swords was published, Martin announced that there would be six books. After A Storm of Swords he began writing A Dance with Dragons, which was supposed to take place five years after A Storm of Swords. Martin later announced that he would add another book, A Feast for Crows, to pick up where A Storm of Swords left off. Martin's original announcement that he would skip five years (and not use many flashbacks) upset many fans who didn't want to miss a moment in the lives of their favorite characters. Interestingly, Martin's decision to stop writing one book and start another in order to chronicle part of that five year gap has caused a five year wait for the fourth installment.
I am going to schedule my whole life around reading this book once it comes out.
― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Thursday, 3 November 2005 21:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 3 November 2005 21:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 3 November 2005 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link
i'm just worried that my weed-addled brainz won't be able to keep up with martin's plots and i will sink into a sea of despair.
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Thursday, 3 November 2005 23:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 4 November 2005 02:54 (eighteen years ago) link
Yes! And YES!!!!!
― Dan (Need To Reread) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 November 2005 03:08 (eighteen years ago) link
so there!
― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:19 (eighteen years ago) link
my friend andrew likes it. me & laura were trying to convine him to read it for like a month, and he just started.
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Monday, 7 November 2005 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 17:20 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm so fucking excited about getting this book tonight. It is going to significantly improve my life.
― Laura H. (laurah), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 20:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 23:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 10 November 2005 05:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Thursday, 10 November 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 10 November 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link
That this series has turned out so well surprises me, considering what a C-lister GRR Martin was before (Wild Cards? ugh).
― adam (adam), Thursday, 10 November 2005 18:26 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm a bit further ahead than you, Adam, and Laura is ahead of us both. But I am so into it.
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Thursday, 10 November 2005 18:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Thursday, 10 November 2005 19:02 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't care that much about the Seastone Chair subplot (though I really like Asha), but I'm really enjoying the King's Landing and Eyrie stuff.
Ian, catch up with me! I want to talk to you about it.
― Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 10 November 2005 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― elmo (allocryptic), Thursday, 10 November 2005 20:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 10 November 2005 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link
why does laura read so fast.
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Thursday, 10 November 2005 23:10 (eighteen years ago) link
YES
― Dan (But I Would Say That) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 10 November 2005 23:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 11 November 2005 04:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Friday, 11 November 2005 04:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 11 November 2005 05:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Friday, 11 November 2005 12:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― elmo (allocryptic), Friday, 11 November 2005 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Saturday, 12 November 2005 04:26 (eighteen years ago) link
A Song of Fire and Ice is one of the best fantasy series currently going. Martin is a skilled writer and an expert crafter of cliffhangers, red herrings, and other plot twists (probably comes from having written for TV so long). If he's no Gene Wolfe, he's also no Robert Jordan.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 20:26 (eighteen years ago) link
What is this supposed to mean? I'm not familiar with either.
BTW, finished the first book last night.
― elmo (allocryptic), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 20:40 (eighteen years ago) link
detailed chapter by chapter summaries available here:http://members.aol.com/vbkorik27/main.html
― mason storm (mason storm), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 21:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 22:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 18:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 18:40 (eighteen years ago) link
I was reading some on the train today. I'm nearing the end. I'm glad I didn't just blow through it in two days cuz otherwise I think I'd be really bored and disappointed with whatever else I'd be reading. I love the way Martin drops characters in and out of the story--case in point, two of Robert's bastards who haven't had terribly significant parts yet (especially Mya Stone.) Also awesome: Dornish subplotting.
Is Cersei delusional or was she really psychologically fucked over as a child (more than one would assume, what with her bonking her bro and all.)
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Thursday, 17 November 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link
SPOILERS MAY FOLLOW:::::::::::::::::::::
so we still have a lot of cliffhangers, some of which are continued over from the previous book. -Where is Tyrion? I bet he's on Dragonstone, perhaps with Davos Seaworth. Maybe they're both dead.-Where are the stark lads and jojen and whats'ername? Are they faring well?-So what's Catelyn's deal now? She's 'alive' in a sense but doesn't seem to have ANY compassion left whatsoever. To be honest, I wouldn't expect her to. But do we think she's going to become a major player in the game? That would surprise me.-Melisandre & Stannis? I wonder how they're dealing with Jon.
I think Arya is really blind, Laura said she'd taken it as a metaphor for something else. I think the concept of a blind Arya assassin is too much to resist.
Cersei's a terrible cunt, and I hope awful things happen to her in the following book. I don't care much about Margaery, really. If she's a casualty it won't be a significant one in my eyes. She was kinda bland.
What do you think is going to happen with Arianne/Myrcella/Dorne?
I like Jaime much more now. He just keeps getting more likable as the series progresses, which is a nice turnaround. His first appearances make him seem like such a bastard.
― Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link
I think in the end Jaime is actually going to be the one to kill Cersei. Maggy predicted she'd be killed by a valonquar (sp?) which means younger brother. She always suspected Tyrion, but given the current situation, I'm going with Jaime. He was born after her, after all, and she is the biggest liability ever. Also, she cheated on him something ridiculous while he was busy getting his hand hacked off. If Tommen doesn't survive (I think he's too guileless for longevity) maybe Jaime can marry Margaery.
I don't (want to) think Brienne is really dead.
If Arya really is blind, I think it will be compensated for by some other kind of power... interesting parallels with Bran, perhaps. I still think he could become a major player. I'd like to see her meet up with Jon again, but it's not going to happen until after Dragons at least since they run parallel in the same time frame.
Sansa is well-positioned to be a major player. Will the Stark girls ever reunite with their zombie mother? Only time will tell.
― Laura H. (laurah), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 8 January 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link
i found that his character development was especially strong; the long build-up to us REALLY meeting jamie lannister was terrific, as was the way he cleverly manipulates reader sympathy in regards to pretty much all of the lannisters.
dude's a little obsessed with rape, though.
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 8 January 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 8 January 2006 17:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 8 January 2006 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link
and yeah, martin is a little obsessed with rape. and incest. and adultery.
― Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Sunday, 8 January 2006 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― slocki at antexit's house (antexit), Sunday, 8 January 2006 20:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Aimless (Aimless), Sunday, 8 January 2006 20:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 8 January 2006 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 March 2006 22:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 March 2006 23:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 01:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 05:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 05:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 05:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 17:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 17:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 17:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 18:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 18:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― adam (adam), Thursday, 13 April 2006 01:43 (seventeen years ago) link
What is the accepted online resource for finding high-quality CCG criticism???
― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Thursday, 13 April 2006 01:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laura H. (laurah), Thursday, 13 April 2006 01:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 13 April 2006 03:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― the unbearable lightness of peeing (orion), Thursday, 13 April 2006 03:36 (seventeen years ago) link
reliance no, parody yes. the "it's a dwarf.... with an axe!!!¡!11lololol geddit" stuff in the first book is sub-pratchett at best :-\
― aphid bokmål (dude dude), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 21:44 (seventeen years ago) link
when's the next volume due out
― electro-acoustic lycanthrope (orion), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 23:45 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117957532.html?categoryid=14&cs=1
― mason storm (mason storm), Friday, 19 January 2007 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Friday, 19 January 2007 17:05 (seventeen years ago) link
i am re-reading this series again.
hi guys.
when is the next book coming out? wikipedia says "hopefully 2007."
― ian, Monday, 4 June 2007 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link
When I try to open that link up there the page has this horrible ad I can't get to go away, but I hear they are doing the series like 1 book = 1 season, which I think is a brilliant approach to an adaptation of a fantasy series.
A fantasy series I have yet to start reading. I am totally stealing my mom's copy of Game of Thrones this weekend though (this is the first book, right?).
― nickalicious, Monday, 4 June 2007 21:22 (sixteen years ago) link
i can't get past the first three pages of this.
― akm, Monday, 4 June 2007 22:40 (sixteen years ago) link
(the first book in the series, that is)
nicka, you will love this i am fairly certain. and yes, that's the first one.
― ian, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 17:35 (sixteen years ago) link
I wonder if Nickalicious read this.
Does an ILXor play either the card game or board game based on these books? Got a bunch of cards cheap, totally playing this shit.
― ian, Monday, 7 April 2008 03:58 (fifteen years ago) link
when the next one?
― s1ocki, Monday, 7 April 2008 04:09 (fifteen years ago) link
don't ask.
― ian, Monday, 7 April 2008 04:14 (fifteen years ago) link
amazon says end of september.
― ian, Monday, 7 April 2008 04:15 (fifteen years ago) link
:\
― Szimeon Tarbuş (☪), Sunday, 9 November 2008 23:53 (fifteen years ago) link
THIS fuckin guy.
― ian, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:08 (fifteen years ago) link
What the hell is going on with this guy? He's got like six million projects.
― Alex in SF, Monday, 10 November 2008 05:25 (fifteen years ago) link
With Robert Jordan gone, someone had to claim the throne.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 November 2008 05:50 (fifteen years ago) link
this guy is going to die and leave an unfinished legacy.
― Joe Pinot (rockapads), Monday, 10 November 2008 08:06 (fifteen years ago) link
YOU MOTHERFUCKER YOU KILLED XXXX!!!!!
XXXXXX XXXX CAN SUCK MY NUTS!!!!
omg the red wedding jesus christ i can't believe this shit happened.
― eatin' mangos in trinidad with attorneys (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:08 (fifteen years ago) link
i hate the lannisters so much (except tyrion)
I flipped through Game of Thrones in the bookstore a couple times based on Ian recommending this stuff but couldn't get myself to pull the trigger
― dmr, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link
omg matt i'm so glad you're reading these books.you have a lot of BALLS OUT INSANITY to look forward to.
dave, it doesn't strike me as the kind of thing you'd be into honestly. Having never heard you mention anything involving knights in shining armor.
― ian, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link
WHARE IS NEXT BOOK YOU FUCKS
― One Community Service Mummy, hold the Straightedge Merman (Laurel), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:27 (fifteen years ago) link
seriously ian...what the HELL! it's crazy...like i mean even after the end of the first book you expect that "no one is safe"...to a degree...
the "red wedding" though...holy crap i have zero idea what is going to happen from here on out....
all my fav characters get killed.
jon snow better pull through for me. love that guy. and arya is awesome too.
― eatin' mangos in trinidad with attorneys (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:28 (fifteen years ago) link
never coming.i should re-read the first four this winter so i don't go crazy. xp
― ian, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:28 (fifteen years ago) link
hahaha M@tt that was the exact same reaction I had
― Black Seinfeld (HI DERE), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:30 (fifteen years ago) link
oh man i probably shouldn't have said that in my first post, that's a big time spoiler, can a mod take the first line out?
xpost dan it was UNREAL...i seriously read those 4-5 page three times just to be like "um...did this just happen???"
― eatin' mangos in trinidad with attorneys (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:31 (fifteen years ago) link
i want a direwolf for xmas
― eatin' mangos in trinidad with attorneys (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:32 (fifteen years ago) link
i just finished a reread last week. book four is a lot better than i remember but nearly as omgwtf as the first three.
― didactic katydid (Lamp), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:33 (fifteen years ago) link
(thx for the mod fix, would hate to spoil that for someone)
― eatin' mangos in trinidad with attorneys (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:35 (fifteen years ago) link
The most irritating part of this interminable delay is that Book 5 was SUPPOSED TO BE DONE ALREADY. He was supposed to have finished Book 4 and found it too long and split it into two. WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN A HEAD-START.
― One Community Service Mummy, hold the Straightedge Merman (Laurel), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:37 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah that's the conclusion I came to myself after I read a few passages
I can fuck with some pulp but I'm more sci-fi / hard-boiled crime
people on this thread seem really into it though!! carry on with your feastening
― dmr, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:38 (fifteen years ago) link
hahaha i got to the end of book four and read the meanwhile back on the wall part and hez like "don't worry its basically finished" lol george
― didactic katydid (Lamp), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:40 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah i had held off for a long time even though everyone at work was forcing this on me like some freaking nerd jehovah's witnesses...i saw how long they were and was like "oh by time i get done with all that reading the next one will be out"....i didn't realize how quick of a read a near 1000 page book could be.
― eatin' mangos in trinidad with attorneys (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 November 2008 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link
If this guy dies before finishing this series I'm going to be very cross.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 25 November 2008 23:39 (fifteen years ago) link
OK just finished storm of sword...
the last page....um....W.....T.....F??????
a lot of shit happened in the last half of that book.
i'm still trying to keep track of it all in my head.
― you can't stop the shinin' (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 5 December 2008 21:12 (fifteen years ago) link
oooooh, man
― tom cruise knows we have to kill hitler (Lamp), Friday, 5 December 2008 21:13 (fifteen years ago) link
i read the prologue to feast for crows, but i'm getting the sense this is gonna be a whole nother can of worms, like focusing on other stuff not the arc of the first three??
― you can't stop the shinin' (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 5 December 2008 21:55 (fifteen years ago) link
Ah no, it's mostly just that it only focuses on a subset of the characters from the first three. Supposedly the other characters will return in the next book if it it ever comes out.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 5 December 2008 22:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, basically he split the character arcs out into two distinct books, so the ones who mostly were ignored in A Storm of Swords should be front and center in the now-verging-on-mythical A Feast Of Crows.
― Ca-hoot na na na oh oh (HI DERE), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:11 (fifteen years ago) link
okay sorry I'm retarded, the other one that I can't remember the name of is the mythical one
― Ca-hoot na na na oh oh (HI DERE), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:13 (fifteen years ago) link
Dance of Death or whatever.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 5 December 2008 22:14 (fifteen years ago) link
dance of dragons i think
― you can't stop the shinin' (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link
Ahaha someone is mixing up his genre thrillers? It's A Dance with Dragons, according to His Lazy Majesty's web page.
― One Community Service Mummy, hold the Straightedge Merman (Laurel), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link
the dance of dragons is mentioned in an offhand comment in storm of swords...
i think it refers to the wars that brought the taregyans (sp?) to power way back in the day
― you can't stop the shinin' (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:16 (fifteen years ago) link
Whatever it's called, I wish this fucker would finish it already.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 5 December 2008 22:17 (fifteen years ago) link
that's my biggest problem with the HBO series, even if it's good, it's just one more distraction for him.
― you can't stop the shinin' (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm not sure the problem is one of distraction though.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 5 December 2008 22:21 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah i have no idea i just figure the busier he is the harder it will be to get done with the books.
― you can't stop the shinin' (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:23 (fifteen years ago) link
the guys at work that are Super Fans bitch that he seems to only care about the NFL on his blog
― you can't stop the shinin' (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:24 (fifteen years ago) link
That and the stupid Wild Cards series.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 5 December 2008 22:42 (fifteen years ago) link
I like the Wild Cards, except for the demonic superpimp.
― Ca-hoot na na na oh oh (HI DERE), Friday, 5 December 2008 22:44 (fifteen years ago) link
I never much liked the concept, but I only read the first couple when I was 14-15.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 5 December 2008 22:55 (fifteen years ago) link
read his blog - all he does is go to nerd conventions where he most likely eats (and possibly scores with SCA girls).
i read these for the first time last February or so, and after finishing the last one checked around for the next one and it said November '08. i was excited! foolish me. my friends laughed knowingly at my enthusiasm.
― shortwave (rockapads), Saturday, 6 December 2008 02:00 (fifteen years ago) link
just finished feast for crows.
goddamn man! you can't leave me hanging like this!!!
definitely the least satisfying of the books, seems like a lot of interesting side info but no real meat.
― ie: BANGING (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 6 January 2009 17:46 (fifteen years ago) link
Every time this thread gets revived I get excited and think "okay finally".
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 17:49 (fifteen years ago) link
One day it'll be revived like the Robert Jordan thread with an 'uh-oh.'
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 17:50 (fifteen years ago) link
haha sorry dude!
hey i went to his site and there is a jon chapter from dance up, but i was informed there was also a tyrion sample chapter up at one point that he took down...in addition to the dany chapter included in feast at the end...anyone know if there's a site that has that up?
xPOST
HUSH YO MOUTH NED! i am sending him fish oil capsules and weight watcher coupons!
― ie: BANGING (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 6 January 2009 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link
'George R.R. Martin' is a name with a little chuckle in the middle.
― moley, Wednesday, 7 January 2009 10:18 (fifteen years ago) link
someone saw the script for the HBO pilot of game of thrones!!
http://winter-is-coming.blogspot.com/2008/12/winter-is-comings-exclusive-pilot.html
― ie: BANGING (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 23:02 (fifteen years ago) link
The script is kind of the last thing I'm wondering about this production, I'll be honest.
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 23:12 (fifteen years ago) link
Wow Tom McCarthy of the Visitor fame to direct the pilot and Peter Dinklage as Tyrion.
No news on the book front sadly.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Fucking George "it's almost done" R. R. Martin.
― ian, Saturday, 9 May 2009 03:36 (fourteen years ago) link
he is not "your bitch"
http://scifisongs.blogspot.com/2009/08/sci-fi-song-20-george-rr-martin-is-not.html
― dude, it's america, it happens all the time (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 19 August 2009 22:27 (fourteen years ago) link
Actually he is. Assuming he wants anyone to buy his books that is.
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 19 August 2009 22:41 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah seriously i fucking hate that he publishes all those stupid "wildcats" books and shit, who gives a fuck about that?
― dude, it's america, it happens all the time (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 19 August 2009 22:44 (fourteen years ago) link
I mean I get that he's stressed out and it's tough being a Jets fan and eating all that Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds, but seriously I don't give a shit. Stop dicking around on your grrnal and write the book I want to read before I forget that I care about this stupid series at all!
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 19 August 2009 22:47 (fourteen years ago) link
i'm gonna had to reread them all again before i read the next one anyway...i remember them, but it's one of those series where some seemingly minor character that you met like for five minutes ends up being a major thing, like how the lightning lord was at ned's tourament in the first book, stuff like that
― dude, it's america, it happens all the time (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 19 August 2009 22:50 (fourteen years ago) link
pimpin' all over the world
http://pics.livejournal.com/grrm/pic/0007stfc
― jealous ones sb (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 18 December 2009 19:04 (fourteen years ago) link
He's playing the lead in the roadshow of Fela!?
― alter cocker jarvis cocker (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 18 December 2009 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link
looool
I admit that were I in a situation where that picture could be taken, I would also be like "fuck finishing this series for a while"
― Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Friday, 18 December 2009 19:16 (fourteen years ago) link
why are people on westeros always eating olives? that makes no sense at all
― thomp, Sunday, 27 December 2009 23:56 (fourteen years ago) link
because they're having a feast for bros
― reagan & sarah (s1ocki), Monday, 28 December 2009 01:57 (fourteen years ago) link
can't really imagine it in henry VI, can you? 'dear duke of gloucester, what do you think we should do about all this lancaster-york business? also, have an olive'
― thomp, Monday, 28 December 2009 09:45 (fourteen years ago) link
'also pass the chip'n'dip'
― thomp, Monday, 28 December 2009 09:46 (fourteen years ago) link
i know, if it weren't for that it would totally be shakespeare
― who sharted?! (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 December 2009 16:10 (fourteen years ago) link
I actually wish I hadn't read the fourth book now (not that it's bad, but it's decidedly unfinished which makes the gap even more frustrating). Also still suspect dude is going to die before anything else makes it into print leaving one of his sons to finish up the series.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 December 2009 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link
george r. r. r. martin
― who sharted?! (s1ocki), Tuesday, 29 December 2009 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link
george arrrrrrrgh arr martin
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 29 December 2009 18:08 (fourteen years ago) link
george r. i. p. martin.
― nickn, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 18:49 (fourteen years ago) link
FIRST PICTURE OF HBO SERIES AND FULL CAST LIST!!!!
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/game-of-thrones/
― om nom nom nom de plume (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 2 March 2010 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link
sike
― aarrissi-a-roni, Wednesday, 14 April 2010 13:58 (thirteen years ago) link
YOOOOOOOODANCE OF DRAGONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/03/03/dance-with-dragons-date/
HEEEELLLL YEAAAAAAAAAAAH
― gr8080 sings the blues (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 3 March 2011 16:16 (thirteen years ago) link
Best news I've heard all week!
― rendezvous then i'm through with HOOS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 3 March 2011 16:21 (thirteen years ago) link
No way!
― every man and woman is a sitar (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 3 March 2011 17:04 (thirteen years ago) link
WHAT
― go peddle your bullshit somewhere else sister (Laurel), Thursday, 3 March 2011 17:12 (thirteen years ago) link
omg
― rockapads, Thursday, 3 March 2011 17:22 (thirteen years ago) link
laura miller's (subscription-only) 'new yorker' article was awesome
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/04/11/110411fa_fact_miller
and this salon thing
http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/game_of_thrones/index.html?story=/ent/tv/feature/2011/04/09/game_of_thrones_primer
makes the whole hbo series sound promising
maybe 'a dance of dragons' or whatever really will come out this summer
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 11 April 2011 14:12 (twelve years ago) link
i understand it's now swelled to seven as feast for crows is only really half a book. whilst it centres on kings landing, events happening simultaneously elsewhere are left for the next one. which hopefully will not take another 5 years.
― mason_storm, Monday, October 31, 2005 7:13 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
haha argh
― fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:31 (twelve years ago) link
i just started feast of crows. little bit of a letdown after the nuts-exploding awesomeness of storm of swords, but i'm sure i'll get into it.
the new yorker article is good. the follow-up interview with laura miller is interesting too, where she talks about the differences between audiences of fantasy & lit fic. she's probably right when she says that a lot of contemporary lit fic writers don't have the skillset for this kind of serial storytelling
http://www.newyorker.com/online/2011/04/11/110411on_audio_miller
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
*feast for crows
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
"little bit of a letdown after the nuts-exploding awesomeness of storm of swords"
It's still a little bit of a let down for me all of these years later.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:39 (twelve years ago) link
Not stopping me from being super excited for the new one though.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
The let down is mostly just that a lot of the interesting threads/characters are even addressed in Feast. I didn't really have a problem with anything in the book itself.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
NYer article was depressing for me. What the fuck is wrong with Fan ppl. Are they still human? As I wrote on the NYer thread already:
"It's rly rly weird psychologically and the GRRM profile is far from the first time I have noticed it; basically, Fans with a capital F have this weird seething RAGE toward the creators of the narratives they want. Like this impotent rage. The creator(s) don't even have to be late on delivery of new work like GRRM has been, the Fans just are constantly teetering between deification and dehumanization of those who CONTROL "their" characters. There DOES need to be a new book abt [this neurosis] because the internet has exacerbated it severely"
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, that's exactly it - the storylines I'm most interested in seeing explored aren't even in the book. I kinda knew that ahead of time though.
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
I am pretty angry at GRRM for not getting around to finish this series. I still suspect he's going to die before concluding it.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link
i'm sympathetic towards the author in this case but I can understand fan disgruntlement if I imagine myself following his blog posts for 6 years waiting for this supposedly nearly-finished half novel to come out - all these little things about selling water-damaged calendars and making the convention circuit and writing about the nfl draft must seem like borderline insults to some people
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
There's probably an element of "*I* have to go to work every day, why isn't *he* accountable for his productivity?" in there somewhere.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
I do like that George R R Martin basically raged about L O S T in that New Yorker thing.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
Also maybe that he "got famous" on the wave of fans he has hooked with his great story, and now that he gets to travel and be interviewed and be propped up by models at sci-fi conventions and have TV shows made about his work, he's betraying the readers who made him by delaying.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:05 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not thrilled about the wait myself.
xxxpost Yeah and Cuse fired back at him on Twitter. Sorry cowboy, you are gonna be an object lesson for decades to come, now stfu.
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:06 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah but have you guys actually read the article and the level of venom involved? I've been waiting with bated breath for this fucking thing just like everybody else but this is like mentally ill behavior...
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:07 (twelve years ago) link
"Yeah but have you guys actually read the article and the level of venom involved?"
No I haven't, but have there been actual attacks on him? Or is these just message board threats?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:10 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i read it. most of that mentally ill behavior just sounds like people running websites & forums with snarky names?
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
this is my fav btw:
http://isadancewithdragonsoutyet.com/
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:16 (twelve years ago) link
well it's kind of the same idol-hatred thing that happens with fans of a lot of authors, TV runners, movie directors etc. It's not that exceptional but this phenom always ooks me out. Like, there is some kind of snake in the brain which unfurls when someone goes from being a fan to a Fan.
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:17 (twelve years ago) link
is he a Giants or Jets fan? can't remember now
― brownie, Monday, 11 April 2011 20:17 (twelve years ago) link
x-post LOL!
Wait - which article are you all talking about - The NYer one?
― ENBB, Monday, 11 April 2011 20:18 (twelve years ago) link
LOL was at the isadancewithdragonsoutyet.com btw
"is he a Giants or Jets fan? can't remember now"
Both.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:19 (twelve years ago) link
christ
― brownie, Monday, 11 April 2011 20:20 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:21 (twelve years ago) link
he could chill out with that stupid wildcats shit he does
― a fort minor forest (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:23 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah I think the shitty Wild Card's series is the worst thing about Martin.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:26 (twelve years ago) link
Oh, I never took him seriously until Game Of Thrones came out. DNW wildcards.
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:29 (twelve years ago) link
First Wildcards book is decent. Some good writers helped him jumpstart it.
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 11 April 2011 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
I will stand behind the original Wild Cards anthology but it did go downhill pretty quickly.
Dude whose powers were fueled by sex was hilarious tho
― fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
Fortunato! The kundalini pimp. I always liked Sleeper.
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 11 April 2011 20:33 (twelve years ago) link
Sleeper was the Zelazny character, right? That first story was good (a little weird that the BIG thing didn't get explored better in it, but a decent enough concept.)
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
i haven't even read the wildcards stuff i just hate reading about it when i'm waiting for the next real book
― a fort minor forest (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:36 (twelve years ago) link
Haha yes.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:36 (twelve years ago) link
I have read the first couple of Wild Cards books and I hate reading about them period.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:38 (twelve years ago) link
Shared-world anthologies, I just can't. I never ever them.
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Monday, 11 April 2011 20:59 (twelve years ago) link
Liked the first couple of Sanctuary books and Medea: Harlan's World but that's about it.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 11 April 2011 21:16 (twelve years ago) link
Seems like the difference between Martin and, say, Robert Jordan is that Jordan seems to have just kept on doing his thing at his preferred pace where Martin is apparently living out a ComicCon geek fantasy.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 11 April 2011 21:22 (twelve years ago) link
The major difference is that Jordan sucked.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
Hahaha.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 11 April 2011 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
the wheel of time is so much better than martin's series its not even worth arguing over
― 松 (▩ ▨ ▧ ▦ ▥ ▤ ▣) ☃ ☃ oooh ive been so good this year (Lamp), Monday, 11 April 2011 21:32 (twelve years ago) link
the new yorker article was p lol tho, tbh its hard to feel all that sorry for martin idk
― 松 (▩ ▨ ▧ ▦ ▥ ▤ ▣) ☃ ☃ oooh ive been so good this year (Lamp), Monday, 11 April 2011 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
I agree it's better than Wild Cards.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2011 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
well i guess i do think its worth getting into: jordan wasnt a great writer & his books are often a lot less outright exciting than martin's but over the course of their respective series its p easy to see how much better a plotter & worldbuilder jordan is, & how much more care & considertation he puts into his story. one of the big knocks on jordan is how slow & repetitive his books get but hes never anything less than purposeful whereas martin often feels to be just meandering w/o purpose or design. with jordan its possible to see where all the puzzle pieces fit w/ martin theres just a lot of fat, partic daenyrs & bran.
plus jordan's characters are better developed & more interesting & more dynamic most of the characters in a song of ice & fire are just a couple of ideas lazily glued together. i like both series ok & they both have p major flaws but jordan is really the only one you could say achieved something 'great'
― 松 (▩ ▨ ▧ ▦ ▥ ▤ ▣) ☃ ☃ oooh ive been so good this year (Lamp), Monday, 11 April 2011 21:53 (twelve years ago) link
Of all the ways I've heard Jordan defended, I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone call him a great or purposeful plotter.
― Bill, Monday, 11 April 2011 21:56 (twelve years ago) link
That's not meant to be snarky, by the way! I'm legitimately startled.
― Bill, Monday, 11 April 2011 21:58 (twelve years ago) link
asoiaf deffo couldve benefited from martin being a more careful planner, stuff like rickon completely vanishing for a thousand pages seems pretty sloppy and probably precipitated by grrm changing his plans multiple times, but i'd say his plotting is very accomplished in more important ways - the twists and turns are rarely predictable (for me, anyway - the series is constantly confounding my natural attempts to extrapolate where it's heading, which i think is great) and he's amazing at building up to big OH HOLY FUCK moments, which is what the series is all about imo.
the characters - not particularly rich & nuanced, but he does do a great job of making sure even the most unsympathetic characters have believable/understandable motivations, and puts them in situations that play off those motivations in interesting ways.
this is my first crack at any kind of epic fantasy and i was thinking of trying wheel of time next, i know there isn't really anything else like asoiaf out there but that's probably all i really want too so ehh
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Monday, 11 April 2011 22:12 (twelve years ago) link
asoiaf deffo
Love this guy's stuff! (Took me a lot longer than it should've to parse this)
― 'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 11 April 2011 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
Haha same here. Sounds like it should be the sequel to Asterios Polyp.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 11 April 2011 22:16 (twelve years ago) link
"and he's amazing at building up to big OH HOLY FUCK moments, which is what the series is all about imo."
Yup. Jordan is tedious as all get out.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 00:50 (twelve years ago) link
http://jezebel.com/#!5792290/in-game-of-thrones-review-new-york-times-explains-women-hate-fantasy-novels
― one dis leads to another (ian), Friday, 15 April 2011 02:59 (twelve years ago) link
Jesus christ
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Friday, 15 April 2011 03:04 (twelve years ago) link
All The News That's Fit To RONG
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Friday, 15 April 2011 03:05 (twelve years ago) link
so I am about 3 seconds away from ordering HBO for this
― fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Friday, 15 April 2011 03:30 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not going that far, but I might actually get around to watching this thing at some point. And trust me, that is v. rare when it comes to me and TV in general now.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 April 2011 03:32 (twelve years ago) link
Should I read these books? I like science fiction/supernatural fiction/world building but haven't read any fantasy in a bazillion years.
― phantoms from a world gone by speak again the immortal tale: (Jenny), Friday, 15 April 2011 04:22 (twelve years ago) link
read them!!!!!
― one dis leads to another (ian), Friday, 15 April 2011 04:22 (twelve years ago) link
yeah sure, read them! they're not Great Literature by any means but they are incredibly engrossing w/ complex plots, tons of characters, and lots of intrigue. also there's none of that cliched elves and dwarves and wizards shit, 95% of it is just humans with swords, and the occasional supernatural bits feel more folktale-inspired than Tolkien-inspired to me.
the one caveat is that they are LONG, 4 books in and it's probably 2-3 times the length of Lord of the Rings already
― ciderpress, Friday, 15 April 2011 07:31 (twelve years ago) link
I always end up tearing through these though, despite their length.
― Number None, Friday, 15 April 2011 09:12 (twelve years ago) link
Okay. Long, engrossing, complex books that are not great literature and involve ppl with swords sounds pretty good. They are on my list. Thanks!
― phantoms from a world gone by speak again the immortal tale: (Jenny), Friday, 15 April 2011 12:54 (twelve years ago) link
I was really sceptical of this series when I started reading but I ended up liking them alot. The timeframe reminds me of Wars of the Roses era England.
― brownie, Friday, 15 April 2011 14:19 (twelve years ago) link
Ugh @ that Jezebel link. I hate so much when writers do that whole "I talked to three of my sheltered friends who've never heard of this thing/trend/book/film/band, so there is no way that anyone exists out there that could actually enjoy this thing/trend/book/film/band".
― 'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 15 April 2011 14:26 (twelve years ago) link
Re the Times article: Booooooooooring! Also, wrong.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Friday, 15 April 2011 14:31 (twelve years ago) link
― brownie, Friday, April 15, 2011 10:19 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark
hah, the war of the roses was the exact inspiration for it
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Friday, 15 April 2011 14:33 (twelve years ago) link
Oh damn, I'm really sold now.
― phantoms from a world gone by speak again the immortal tale: (Jenny), Friday, 15 April 2011 14:57 (twelve years ago) link
Oh God that Times review. :(
― ENBB, Friday, 15 April 2011 15:01 (twelve years ago) link
it's odd that the heroic fantasy poles have become jordan and martin, jordan representing what the douchebags in the new yorker article think of as trad fantasy and martin the new-school gritty hotness, when like when jordan came out he was the new-school gritty hotness and terry brooks was the trad tired old fantasy dude.
the grittiness escalation race is dangerous, grrm is gonna end up the frank miller of never ending fantasy doorstops and we are going to enter early 90s image comics land. joe abercrombie is nu rob liefeld.
― adam, Friday, 15 April 2011 15:23 (twelve years ago) link
nyer article so annoying, OF COURSE grrm owes his fans what they want. they made his fat ass rich.
dude spent decades editing those awful wild cards books and pushing his c-list short stories. he hits the jackpot with ASOIAF, lives it up and is suddenly too good to hold up his end of the unspoken-but-totally-there nerd-culture-producer/consumer bargain? fuck him.
― adam, Friday, 15 April 2011 15:26 (twelve years ago) link
I think your two posts just outlined why I'm glad I stepped away from all this.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 April 2011 15:28 (twelve years ago) link
Ha, that Times review. Just imagine sitting in with that book club of hers for a minute. Scarier than Martin's White Walkers imo.
― rockapads, Friday, 15 April 2011 16:07 (twelve years ago) link
Glen Cook's Black Company is grittier than both combined; same with C.S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy from the early 90s.
― fat fat fat fat Usher (DJP), Friday, 15 April 2011 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
I found Black Company gritty to the point of comedy, and quit reading it. May try to pick it up again, though.
― rockapads, Friday, 15 April 2011 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
still haven't read glen cook--is it steven erikson gritty (beleaguered soldiers caught up in a grand sweep of history beyond their control etc etc) or abercrombie gritty (swearing, sex, violence, dark dark dark)?
honestly the main reason i have yet to fuck with cook is that i can only find trade paperbacks. i like my fantasy fiction in mass market form so it's easy to carry and hide. those r scott bakker books were super embarrassing b/c they are huge with sub-games-workshop design.
― adam, Friday, 15 April 2011 18:08 (twelve years ago) link
Erikson gritty. Erikson owes a great deal to Black Co.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 15 April 2011 18:09 (twelve years ago) link
Hmmm. Cook is somewhere in between Erickson and Abercrombie, adam. Less of the descriptions of the actual injuries and maiming, but just as much death and darkness. But grander and more imaginative with more sweeping vision, not just the man-on-the-ground viewpoint.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Friday, 15 April 2011 18:13 (twelve years ago) link
Cook's vehicle for the Black Company's story is that the tale is told by one narrator, so whatever happens outside that person's sight/frame of reference is kinda glossed over. So you're told that the other mercs are out raping and pillaging but you don't have it all described to you around the campfire.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Friday, 15 April 2011 18:15 (twelve years ago) link
a nook/kindle might resolve people's self-consciousness about what they're seen reading. also, cook's sort of 'weird tales,' too, like a minimalist robert e. howard and hp lovecraft (in hp's lord dunsany mode) hybrid. he brings old resurrected gods and goddesses with revenant minions warring across john ford desertscapes and such. plus i think the perspectival trickery he's up to sometimes via-a-vis his narrator is on par with premium gene wolfe and sam delany
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 15 April 2011 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
ebooks & audiobooks are a godsend when it comes to crappy cover consciousness.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 15 April 2011 18:36 (twelve years ago) link
i was ok with the original mass market grrm covers but the recent editions with the bold colors and cheesy gradient are atrocious. they look like janet evanovich novels.
the hbo tie in reprint is pretty awful too.
cover of the last erikson novel is A+ tho, would totally read in public.
― adam, Friday, 15 April 2011 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
Only problem with the Kindle version is the low-res version of the map of Westeros, but you can pull this up if you need a reference:
http://gameofthrones.net/images/Westeros_Maps/Map_Westeros_Political.gif
― schwantz, Friday, 15 April 2011 20:52 (twelve years ago) link
I am in portland for this wkend bcuz of a comix festival, are there any pdx fantasy thugz who have HBO and are watching this Sun night? No one I know here seems to have cable...
― last name ever, first name gjetost (Jon Lewis), Friday, 15 April 2011 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
I just held in my hands the complete uncorrected proofs of Dance of Dragons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
― coo coo khal (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 9 May 2011 17:47 (twelve years ago) link
YSI? ;)
― schwantz, Monday, 9 May 2011 17:47 (twelve years ago) link
HAET U
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Monday, 9 May 2011 18:28 (twelve years ago) link
a guy from works arranged to finagle one! i won't get to read it for a long time tho, i might just wait cuz it looks like it would be annoying to read, all the stuff that supposed to be italics is underlined!
but it exists! that's the important thing! nearly 1000 pages (but on regular office paper, double space and bound like a kinkos type thing)
― end to end berners (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 9 May 2011 18:42 (twelve years ago) link
I do not understand how that got out from under lock and key. Do you know how tight security measures are for high-profile, long-awaited books like that??!??? Protect yourself and don't say a word about what's in it.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Monday, 9 May 2011 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
I bet it contains... WORDS
― Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Monday, 9 May 2011 18:52 (twelve years ago) link
I'm about two thirds of the way though the second book now. Love them. Thank u ILX!
― phantoms from a world gone by speak again the immortal tale: (Jenny), Monday, 9 May 2011 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
continuing from HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE), AFFC spoilers ahead
i've read it and i don't know which one he means tbh. but the entire plotline with the brotherhood of the thingummy (i hope this is loose enough to not be considered a spoiler) is at least vaguely concerned with all of that, i suppose -- but in the vague-received-idea-of-robin-hood way, not the how-does-robin-hood-actually-function way
― thomp, Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:38 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
i meant brienne's pov - fans seem hate it because all she does is ask people where sansa is, but its really a way of spotlighting the human wreckage of the war of the five kings, one of the book's best chapters is the one where the monkbro talks about being sent off to war imo
the brotherhood started out as a merry men kind of thing and turned into something more brutal and unsettling by AFFC
there's also the organization of armed monks that's reinstated towards the end of AFFC but who knows how they'll fit in
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:03 (twelve years ago) link
Violently, one suspects.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:06 (twelve years ago) link
oh i didn't see the last revive of this thread! tamtam you should def. read something that is not robert jordan for your next go at epic fantasy whatever novels imo. but yeah: brienne and jaime and catelyn were the parts of the last two books i was conscious of continuing to enjoy. oh god, how long do i have until i have to read one of these again
― thomp, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:10 (twelve years ago) link
haha do you have anything to recommend? because my friend is foisting his copies of robert jordan on me and i can only hold out so long
― cum dude (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:13 (twelve years ago) link
robert jordan owns fuck you
― Lamp, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:15 (twelve years ago) link
yo i am inqualified to discuss the literary merits of r. jordan, i accept this
it just seems like the 'man you really have to listen to dick's picks #2, #6, #7, #33 oh and i'll tape you all the shows from europe '72 that didn't go on the album' of fantasy fiction
― thomp, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
haha
there are a bunch of good rec's in the old rolling fantasy genre thread tho tams
ot: i remember 'not really getting' what martin was trying to do w/ the armed monks/religous heavies stuff in the last book but that might just be the pitfall of trying to find 'real world' analogs/concerns for everything thats happening in the series
― Lamp, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
robert jordan gets sooo tedious.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
i am going to shit this mini diatribe out here so that i don't foul up the tv show thread for the good folks who haven't read the books. every non-book scene in the latest episode was disgraceful.1. renly and loras - what are they doing to renly?? his character seems so different from in the book, and he was such a well drawn character. he is all effete whereas in the book he is a fighter, just with more to him than robert who is only a fighter. and why the fuck are they talking about renly being king already? robert is still aliiiiiive. neither of them have any kind of motive to talk about ousting robert and renly is big on his biggest bro iirc. also, gay undertones were v cool when they were just undertones and you suddenly realized in book 2, "oh so...". that was v nicely handled by grrm imo. i guess on this point you can't blame hbo for hboing it.2. littlefinger and varys - nooooooo. no. no. i thought it was kind of important that you never witness those two interacting alone. their relationship is left deliberately murky. and also the implications of what they were saying made no sense with ref to what at least littlefinger is shown to be up to in book 3. inaccurate and useless scene.3. cersei and robert - cersei thought she had feelings for robert once?? what thee fucke? so stupidly rong. i got the impression that her being in love with her brother was kind of a plot point here, maybe an important one. why were they being so civil? the whole tone of the conversation was off.and to make room for this shit, the trip to the vale and the useful particulars of the eyrie were gutted and the ongoing revelation re the king's bastards was kinda shoehorned in. BAH.
I APOLOGIZE FOR THIS POST
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 00:11 (twelve years ago) link
Loras and Renly are both pretty much ciphers in the book. Renly's not gonna be around long so i imagine they're trying to give his demise a little more resonance.
― Number None, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 00:18 (twelve years ago) link
2. littlefinger and varys - nooooooo. no. no. i thought it was kind of important that you never witness those two interacting alone. their relationship is left deliberately murky. and also the implications of what they were saying made no sense with ref to what at least littlefinger is shown to be up to in book 3. inaccurate and useless scene.
i agree with this! part of me loves the idea of a scene between the two, but i reacted p negatively to that scene. it felt way too on the nose for those characters.
that said i think you can justify both that scene and the renly scene in the context of the show - they're still laying groundwork for the uninitiated. im not sure how clear varys' role was up until now, and having him interact like that w/littlefinger explains a lot about both of their power dynamics. the renly scene is like the new theon material, who does almost nothing in the first book - laying the foundation for season 2 so viewers at the bare minimum know who these characters are.
i actually didn't realize that renly & loras were gay while i was reading the books (it seems comically obvious in hindsight)(RAINBOW GUARD), for a couple of reasons - one is that martin never seemed to be coy about sex, so i figured if he was going to introduce gay characters he'd just show them plowing each other. but i think i wasnt taking into account that he's a dirty old fucker who just writes the kind of lurid sex scenes that get him hot & bothered. the other is that most of the "evidence" is in the form of other people making childish "lol what about your butt-buddy renly" jokes that i didnt think were supposed to be taken seriously. but i think its cool that the show's making it more explicit, i found myself wondering where all the queer characters were when i was reading it and its alright to foreground those aspects imo.
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 00:27 (twelve years ago) link
i thought the cersei & robert scene was good (if not particularly true to my conception of the cersei character), though lena headey was making some really weird... i dont know if there's something wrong with her eye, but she was making some distracting faces that sorta looked like this: http://i.imgur.com/hkAkX.gif
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
Well it would be difficult to explicitly show that they're gay considering neither of them are POV characters.
― Number None, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 00:32 (twelve years ago) link
yeah but when the red viper is introduced, the book basically just says HE FUCKS BOYS. everyone's a lot more coy about renly & loras.
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 00:34 (twelve years ago) link
just finished feast for crows!
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:16 (twelve years ago) link
it felt like such a.... half-book. BUT it was nice to see grrm tackling stuff that i had been pretty conscious of him missing in the first 3 books -- the political power of religion, the experience of war on the ground (as ptamtam says upthread)
i like that martin seems to have affection and some degree of respect for his female characters but its kind of bugging me how STUPID they all are. with the exception of arya i guess? but cersei is just so transparently idiotic and brienne is a fumbling moron and sansa... well sansa is barely a character. even catelyn ends up being not as smart as robb.
tbh i didnt really give a shit about jon and stannis and the wall. or danaerys. i kind of dont care whats happening over there! way more interested in tyrion... and bran! and the reeds! i am really hoping we can get some scenes set at the neck w the crannogmen and howland reed.
also the iron islands... i dngas. i thought there was going to be something cool with the dragon horn but that petered out.
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:20 (twelve years ago) link
also this guy loves lesbian sex huh
frankly i hope podrick payne wins the game of thrones. #teampodrick
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
Hoping for some Howland Reed action too. And i guess Tyrion and Daenerys are gonna meet up at some point.
― Number None, Friday, 20 May 2011 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
Re the female characters: yeah but almost everyone in GRRM's books is ultimately not too bright in a way that leads to his or her messy demise. There's just a lot more male characters than female ones, but I'm not sure intelligence/survival rates are disproportionate?
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
Very superior of you guys with your omniscient viewpoints to call the characters stupid.
― Number None, Friday, 20 May 2011 18:24 (twelve years ago) link
I'm DYING to find out what Bran and the Reeds do and how Bran finds his secret powers and what exactly they are. Also, I remain 100% convinced that Arya and her direwolf are going to be re-united and that moment is going to make like 5 books' worth of material totally worth it.
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:25 (twelve years ago) link
i dunno i was kind of struck by how much smarter jaime and kevan are than cersei. and.... everyone is smarter than brienne. and even catelyn gets outwitted by robb several times! danaerys and arya seem pretty competent i guess.
i think the next book is really gonna bug me... like i was saying i was happy to not pay attention to the wall and danaerys and im not looking forward to returning to those plotlines unless some real game-changing shit is going to happen. its hard to juggle a lot of plotlines, and GRRM is better at it than most, but its like... im okay with rickon and the wildling woman just disappearing! I dont need sixteen chapters set from oshas point of view! and i wish he would take that attitude with some of the other stuff. sansa stark at the vale? please, just keep me updated during the kings landing chapters and ill be okay.
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:27 (twelve years ago) link
― Number None, Friday, May 20, 2011 2:24 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
haha but EVERYONE thinks cersei and brienne are stupid. in the book! they get outwitted CONSTANTLY
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:28 (twelve years ago) link
Nah i know. I think Cersei just sort of blinded by rage/power. Brienne's dopey "I'm looking for my sister... thing was pretty annoying
― Number None, Friday, 20 May 2011 18:30 (twelve years ago) link
Oh yeah, Theon will be back too and he's gonna totally redeem himself. Maybe.
― Number None, Friday, 20 May 2011 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah Cersei is a case study in hubris; she basically plotted and manipulated and bode her time, but when she made her move she grossly overreached and threw all of her caution to the wind.
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
i like that martin seems to have affection and some degree of respect for his female characters but its kind of bugging me how STUPID they all are
i think a lot of hes trying to make a point abt how belief in/adherence to any particular code blinds a person to the reality of someone who doesnt accept the same code & so makes them unable to anticipate/manipulate those ppl. with ned its his code of conduct with sansa its her belief in romantic chivalry with cersie its her own infailability &c &c also i think he wants to show how characters that exist on the margins or 'outside' society are better able to see things for what they really are, theyre less fettered by preconceived notions & so can operate w/in the game more effectively
so its not that theyre STUPID theyre just beholden to outmoded or ineffective codes of conduct or beliefs. otoh... sansa.
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:36 (twelve years ago) link
poor Sansa
I ended up feeling really sorry for her
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:38 (twelve years ago) link
OK can someone clarify something? In the map posted above, I distinctly count eight kingdoms. Is Winterfell not a kingdom? Or is it that King's landing is a capital territory—like DC or Canberra—and therefore does not count as a kingdom?
― fields of salmon, Friday, 20 May 2011 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
all the other stark kids are having the most bad-ass time and sansa is stuck in the stupidest of the seven kingdoms with an idiot child and rapey littlefinger
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
Or is it that King's landing is a capital territory—like DC or Canberra—and therefore does not count as a kingdom?
i think its this? because there was never a king there the way there was a king of the north, king of the reach, etc
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
xp: not ALL of the other Stark kids; Robb's journey wasn't too hot
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:42 (twelve years ago) link
sure, he met a bad end but he never lost a battle and had sick nickname
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:43 (twelve years ago) link
i really shouldve read that over before hitting 'submit post' (xps)
sansa is kinda a gross character tbh in that he makes her pay for her mistakes a hundred times over & it never really seems to be enough. shes like the pretty girl in a horror movie
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:43 (twelve years ago) link
theres gonna be something up w/ jeyne westerling, right? every time they talk about her they mention that her grandmother was a "mad witch" or something of the sort
I guess that was more an "ambush" than a "battle"
Anyway I too would rather be murdered than trapped with Littlefinger so I retract my objection
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
i think this was primarily done to hint that her marriage to robb was the result of a glamour or w/e iirc her mother uses 'potions' on her?
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:50 (twelve years ago) link
oh hmm. disapponting
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:54 (twelve years ago) link
there seems to be some speculation online that the jeyne presented to jaime in affc is not real jeyne, because jaime thinks her hips are narrow, and catelyn wouldnt shut up about jeynes hips in asos
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 18:55 (twelve years ago) link
really? i havent looked at forums in long time but iirc there was a lot of spec that jeyne might be pregnant which i guess cld tie in to that...
the only other stuff i remember abt jeyne was that the potion/spell that caused her & robb to fall in love (spec) had worked 'too well' & that was why she refused to take of mourning colors & so she might still be attempting to work against her mother and the lannisters in some way
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Friday, 20 May 2011 19:00 (twelve years ago) link
i will laugh if the arya-wolf thing never actually happens
should we make a dance for dragons thread or leave it until the book comes out
also, a big collected SONG OF ICE AND FIRE THE SOURCE OF THE TV SHOW GAME OF THRONES is top ten amazon sellers this week, so is another completely unrelated novel which includes the words 'ice' and 'throne'
― thomp, Friday, 20 May 2011 19:07 (twelve years ago) link
so max did you figure out jon's real parents
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Friday, 20 May 2011 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, May 20, 2011 2:27 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
i felt like with cersei, she wasn't stupid so much as her paranoia and her vanity made her shortsighted - shes like a paranoid despot who surrounds herself with weak & incompetent people b/c they cant challenge her. i thought it was a neat contrast w/tywin, who was an even more horrible person but as a ruler seemed to understand the value of having the brightest people in important positions.
the thing about catelyn is whenever she has a great idea nobody listens to her, and whenever she has a dumb one everyone pays attention
sansa's p. dumb though which is why i had trouble buying into littlefinger turning her into a lil schemer - there are a few times where he prompts her to explain some of his schemes and she does so w/little difficulty. how much a devious genius can this guy be if she's dismantling his shit like that
w/brienne, shes 'dumb' in the same way as Tragic Manly Dude Ned Stark is - just overly bound by honor and not suited to dealing with scoundrels. shes one of my fav characters tbh. brienne's paranoid in the way a lot of mistreated & marginalized people become, in that she can't really tell the difference between one kind of raw deal and another. shes one of the saddest characters imo. i felt so bad for her & pod (and now i hate zombie cat!!!!)
for smart broads, peep the Tyrell matriarch (forget her name) - i always wished we got more of her
the iron island chapters were real bad and a disappointment, but i dug the dorne stuff
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Friday, 20 May 2011 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
i thought the dorne guy was rad - but i love in these kind of books when a place that you keep getting an outside view of finally opens up
the tyrell matriarch is a great character tbh id kinda forgotten abt her!
i thought it was a neat contrast w/tywin, who was an even more horrible person but as a ruler seemed to understand the value of having the brightest people in important positions.
i kinda disagree! at least re: twyin. he was just as arrogant & blind to his own prejudices as cersei! to me the point was that as a male w/in westeros twyin was secure enough to be able to encourage competence in his subordinates. whereas cersei was put in the position of nvr being able to show weakness or need. also tywin had an entire support network & the weight of tradition to stand on whereas cersei was constantly having to prove herself...
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Friday, 20 May 2011 20:59 (twelve years ago) link
thats a great point about tywin & cersei, yeah
reminds me, my favorite part of AFFC is possibly the scene where jaime talks to his aunt about tywin - men are such great thundering fools etc
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Friday, 20 May 2011 21:02 (twelve years ago) link
i figured jon snow is bryanna and rhaegars kid? Or whatever ned's sister's name was? was there more significance to the conversation arya had with beric's squire?
you make good pts abt the women--I think it bugged me in this book especially b/c brienne and cerise are prob the two most written characters and they just keep making stupid decisions. it's less obvious when you have dumb male characters like Ned in there too.
dead cat went seriously ham. I'm probably more mad at the freys than any other characters in the book, I hope she murks the whole family and haunts the twins forever. But I will never forgive her if she kills pod #teampodrick
i liked dorne a lot -- braavos too -- im excited for more of places getting opened up like that -- the ruins of valyria and the neck in particular.
gonna be bummed at spending so much time on the iron islands unless there's a really good payoff w/ the dragon horn.
also excited to find out what tyrion and varys have been doing.
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 22:45 (twelve years ago) link
the freys are the biggest pieces of shit in the books imo
― Blink 187um (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 20 May 2011 22:56 (twelve years ago) link
thats pretty much the common theory on jon since it explains ned's treatment of him pretty decently (his oft-referred promise to lyanna was to keep her kid safe, he can't reveal the truth to anyone lest word get to the king who would order him killed for being heir to house targaryen). hopefully that'll be confirmed/denied in the next book instead of stringing us along until the end of the series to find out if we were right. there's one character left alive (howland reed) who was with ned when lyanna died and presumably shares the secret.
― ciderpress, Friday, 20 May 2011 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
howland fuckin reed man. howland fuckin reed.
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 23:11 (twelve years ago) link
^^this.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 20 May 2011 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
walder frey's an awesome villain, and i was unbelievably stoked when i found out they cast david bradley in the role:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01177/arts-graphics-2007_1177125a.jpg
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Friday, 20 May 2011 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
enjoying my re-read of these in anticipation of the new one, i just started book 2 and there's so much i had forgotten, basically everything except the few major plot twists. it's all coming back to me now though.
― ciderpress, Friday, 20 May 2011 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
― ciderpress, Friday, May 20, 2011 7:09 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah. i think thats why we havent met howland reed yet - dude just knows too much. didnt ned say that he couldnt have beat arthur dayne w/o reed's help? im so curious about how that went down
i didnt pick up on jon's real parentage at all on my readthrough, so when i read about it online i was like :OOOOOOOO
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Friday, 20 May 2011 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
I'm gonna be bummed if Frey just kicks the bucket. Martin has a habit of denying you vengeance -- both joffrey and the mountain die in ways that aren't particularly satisfying. though tywin gets his for sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if jons royal parentage comes out in the context of melisandre needing royal blood to wake the dragon
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Friday, 20 May 2011 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
god, the mountain. the duel between him & the red viper was maybe the most visceral moment in the series for me - the way martin has you doubting that he can stand up to gregor, then slowly lets you think maybe he can win, then pulls the rug out from under you is great imo. also apparently gregor clegane's an undead zombie golem now. i hope sandor gets to kill him!
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Friday, 20 May 2011 23:25 (twelve years ago) link
i'll be real impressed if martin can pull off all the undead stuff w/o it seeming stupid
― Blink 187um (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 20 May 2011 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
love these books so fukken much
― one dis leads to another (ian), Friday, 20 May 2011 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
the daynes are definitely Persons Of Interest. They have purple eyes!
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Saturday, 21 May 2011 00:12 (twelve years ago) link
darkstar's p comical - he shows up, acts like a hot topic teen and then all he can do is cut a little girl's ear off and run away
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 21 May 2011 00:24 (twelve years ago) link
the dornish princess and her buds seem like such lame-os
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Saturday, 21 May 2011 00:28 (twelve years ago) link
honestly i think i h8d joffrey more than the freys i wanted that little fucker to get set on fire and then disembowled or s.thing
one of things i really liked abt the fourth book was how it suggested all these counterfactuals - what if mad aerys had allowed cersei to marry rhaegar
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Saturday, 21 May 2011 00:38 (twelve years ago) link
i was really hoping the hound would just get fed up w/joffrey and suddenly behead him in one clean motion
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 21 May 2011 00:46 (twelve years ago) link
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Friday, May 20, 2011 8:38 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
one of my favorite running jokes is how martin keeps letting you think x character might get sent to the wall (ned, theon, tyrion) and lets you get all excited about that for a minute before bein like 'lol fuk u' and goes in a different direction
tbh i kept hoping ned would show up at the wall well into clash of kings ;_;
― anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 21 May 2011 00:50 (twelve years ago) link
he loves to set plots almost in motion and then pull the rug out from under you!!
WHAT IF.... arya teamed up with sam the slayer???
WHAT IF.... brienne swore allegiance to Roberts bastard???
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Saturday, 21 May 2011 00:57 (twelve years ago) link
lol @ sam the slayer
― one dis leads to another (ian), Sunday, 22 May 2011 01:24 (twelve years ago) link
arya is gonna be one tuff fuckin broad imo.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Sunday, 22 May 2011 01:25 (twelve years ago) link
u think shes for real blind or what
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Sunday, 22 May 2011 02:44 (twelve years ago) link
Anyone else find the Arya stuff in the last book a little lame? Like she wandered into your standard fantasy training to be the greatest warrior shit
― Number None, Sunday, 22 May 2011 02:48 (twelve years ago) link
i have my doubts re: her being perma-blind
re: standard fantasy training - she seems to be turning into a creepy psycho more than a greatest warrior so idk
― farty f baby (Princess TamTam), Sunday, 22 May 2011 05:37 (twelve years ago) link
Creepy psychos are awesome, tho
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Sunday, 22 May 2011 15:09 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i thought she was gonna be an assassin or some shit, not like some do-gooder
― one dis leads to another (ian), Monday, 23 May 2011 20:04 (twelve years ago) link
kinda assuming she will leave the facelessbros at some point and team up with jon, danaerys or tyrion
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, 23 May 2011 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
but i think a lot of wrong shit tbh
i'm convinced bran is turning into a creepy psycho, too.
― remy bean, Monday, 23 May 2011 20:38 (twelve years ago) link
Rickon is going to end up uniting the 7 Kingdoms and the Wildlings
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Monday, 23 May 2011 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
arya + daenerys wd be amazing, too.
― remy bean, Monday, 23 May 2011 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
remy, no!! Bran is going to be awesome!
― Back up the lesbian canoe (Laurel), Monday, 23 May 2011 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
Faceless folk seem like hacks to me, would enjoy it if she just killed that kindly old man.
― abcfsk, Monday, 23 May 2011 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
yeah no way bran can be a psycho with jojen reed supervising him
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, 23 May 2011 20:43 (twelve years ago) link
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Monday, May 23, 2011 4:40 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i dont get why martin wont just kill him off already
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, 23 May 2011 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
HODOR ftw
― brownie, Monday, 23 May 2011 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
im still #teampodrick
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, 23 May 2011 20:46 (twelve years ago) link
should we start a dance with dragons thread
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, 23 May 2011 21:06 (twelve years ago) link
probably but I'm lazy
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Monday, 23 May 2011 21:06 (twelve years ago) link
also can i just say how much it annoys me that martin titled three of the boys X of Y and is now changing up his prepositions
the last two should be called The Winds Between Winter and A Dream Before Spring
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Monday, 23 May 2011 21:08 (twelve years ago) link
a dream up spring
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, 23 May 2011 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
hahaha
― I HAVE ISSUES (DJP), Monday, 23 May 2011 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
trying to reread these in anticipation gawd is bran the worst
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Monday, 23 May 2011 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
rickon is worse
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, 23 May 2011 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
HODOR
― brownie, Monday, 23 May 2011 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
more like BLODOR
― ᵉ( ᷅ʷɣʷ)ᵊ (Lamp), Monday, 23 May 2011 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
THE HODIARTRIST
― brownie, Monday, 23 May 2011 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
lol whats your beef w/rickon max - he doesnt have any POVs and he literally ceases to exist after the 2nd book
― farty f baby (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 02:05 (twelve years ago) link
hes nuts, way too hyper, cant control his wolf, its like, chill out lil bro
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 02:07 (twelve years ago) link
speaking of shit that annoys me in these books
why are the starks "words" (dont even get me started on calling it "words" instead of "motto") in the present progressive?? "winter is coming" sucks -- what about "winter will come" or "winter always comes" or something? even "winter comes" would be better.
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 02:10 (twelve years ago) link
haha i dont like him for the same reasons tbh - when he went off on his own w/osha i felt bad for her because i knew she'd end up being eaten by Shaggydog because hes a brat who sets the wolf on anyone who tells him what to do
― farty f baby (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 02:19 (twelve years ago) link
Pishposh, it's clearly a reference to Ezra Pound's parody of Sumer Is Icumen In
Winter is icumen in,Lhude sing Goddamm,Raineth drop and staineth slop,And how the wind doth ramm!
The Starks are high modernists for sure.
― Øystein, Tuesday, 24 May 2011 08:43 (twelve years ago) link
one of the things im really enjoying this read through is finding little easter egg nods to other sff writers reminds me of what a total fanboy martin is @ heart
― goon.ru (Lamp), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 02:19 (twelve years ago) link
― ban drake (the rapper) (max), Monday, May 23, 2011 10:10 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark
s1ocki wanted me to tell you that 'winter is coming' is way doper than all those other suggestions (i agree w/him)
― farty f baby (Princess TamTam), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 04:45 (twelve years ago) link
tell s1ocki to start fukken posting again...
― goon.ru (Lamp), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 04:58 (twelve years ago) link
hmmm
finished the fourth book & still feel p let down by the series. i mean im happy that dance/dragons is finally coming out but the reread kinda just reminded me of all things i dislike abt the series particularly as an 'epic fantasy'. i think the thing that bothered me the most is the sorta hand-waving that goes on around the idea that theres a deeper level going on thing, which is sorta a dumm trope in general in i think implemented particularly badly here w/ the oldtown stuff.
also littlefinger as devious political tactician sorta wears thin - at one point he tells sansa that cersei was fucking things up faster than he had anticipated which a) seemed like a nod to his original idea that he could timeskip after book 3 and b) how did lf even know cersei wld end up in charge?
― there is no joke in this display name (Lamp), Monday, 30 May 2011 01:45 (twelve years ago) link
Tyrion covered his mouth and belched politely[... The first thing he had done after taking up residence in the Tower of the Hand was inquire after the finest cook in the city and take her into his service. This evening they had supped on oxtail soup, summer greens tossed with pecans, grapes, red fennel, and crumbled cheese, hot crab pie, spiced squash, and quails drowned in butter. Each dish had come with its own wine.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Monday, 30 May 2011 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
i think the thing that bothered me the most is the sorta hand-waving that goes on around the idea that theres a deeper level going on thing, which is sorta a dumm trope in general in i think implemented particularly badly here w/ the oldtown stuff.
what do you mean by this? i was under the impression that the "oldtown stuff" (i.e. the maesters conspiracy against magic? i guess?) was going to be explained in more depth in the next book?
― ☂ (max), Monday, 30 May 2011 23:23 (twelve years ago) link
i do think littlefinger's kinda getting lamer and lamer, i'd really like to see someone outsmart him for once (hoping its not some super obvious sansa-learns-how-to-be-a-schemer-from-him-and-then-disposes-of-him thing)
― a thong of ice and fire (Princess TamTam), Monday, 30 May 2011 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
yeah the littlefinger/sansa stuff is pretty boring/stupid
― ☂ (max), Monday, 30 May 2011 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
This evening they had supped on oxtail soup, summer greens tossed with pecans, grapes, red fennel, and crumbled cheese, hot crab pie, spiced squash, and quails drowned in butter. Each dish had come with its own wine.
― thomp, Monday, 30 May 2011 23:49 (twelve years ago) link
no olives, huh
― ☂ (max), Monday, 30 May 2011 23:51 (twelve years ago) link
'i wonder what a medieval feast would have looked like eh i guess i can just make some shit up'
― thomp, Monday, 30 May 2011 23:52 (twelve years ago) link
tbf dude looks like he must've done meticulous research
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 30 May 2011 23:56 (twelve years ago) link
ha i googled that phrase and it was on one of those 'open the book nearest to hand and type the xxth sentence of the yyyth page' threads in another place, and all they had glossed it with was 'fat author is fat'
― thomp, Monday, 30 May 2011 23:59 (twelve years ago) link
in book 4 it felt like he started to make explicit a couple of intertwined plot threads that had sort of been undergirding a bunch of the action and more importantly his world-building but to me it felt clumsy & sorta thinly-realized? i think ideally these sort of 'ancient propechy'/secret cabal type of plotlines are supposed to reinforce some of the themes/ideas in the other plotlines or add a sense of mythic importance to the novel's goings on. but here they seem tacked-on from the best part of the series - the messy human politicking involved in the game of thrones, the personalities and the betrayals & the reversals. adding a for lack of a better word 'mythic' layer to the book sorta cheapens or at least minimizes the good stuff & exposes a lot of martin's weakness as a fantasy writer.
like in both of the oldtown chapters we're give a bunch of exposition that still fails to really explain much of anything, he sortof hints around abt some stuff we already know & then its like actually this whole conflict is really abt something else. which is like, blah.
― Lamp, Tuesday, 31 May 2011 03:55 (twelve years ago) link
oh i dunno i never got that "actually" feeling -- i liked the oldtown stuff (sort of -- it did feel tacked on) because the whole time im reading the series im thinking, you know, "the maesters dont make sense, why/how are they so apolitical, when their irl counterparts were not, these guys should be a separate power base from the aristocracy (& religion)." and then it sort of comes into focus -- theyre playing a different game, fighting a different battle or whatever.
& maybe i missed something but it didnt subsume the game of thrones stuff, it just was more of the kind of continual widening of focus that grrm has been doing since the first book. instead of being 'the conflict is really about this' it was like, 'heres a whole other set of conflicts that feed into the main conflict but you didnt even know about until now.'
but it seems like kind of a moot discussion till we get dance of dragons and can see where the citadel stuff actually goes
― ☂ (max), Tuesday, 31 May 2011 04:07 (twelve years ago) link
i guess - & i am probably not explaining this v well - my big problem was with the way the ideas presented in the oldtown chapters forcefully broaden the scope of the series. like wed been getting hints & insinuations that there were older/wilder/more magical forces at work in the war of the five kings, but i felt like he just sorta dropped things in our laps, w/o developing them or adequately foreshadowing them?
also i do think it does more than widen the focus or build his world or w/e - taken at face value the idea that danny represents a specfic & necessary force that will 'save humanity' changes the tone of the conflict. its no longer a war based on political necessities but prophetic ones. & i guess it begins to move the story from one of moral greyness to one thats more black & white? does that make sense? i guess i cld be reading too much into it/extrapolating too much from what we actually know...
i mean there are a lot of really good fantasy series that work w/in those parameteres & are in interested in looking in how salvation occurs in human terms, what the compromises are &c. but that doesnt seem to be the series that martin really wants to write, & im... less than enthusiastic abt reading him on it...
― Lamp, Tuesday, 31 May 2011 04:19 (twelve years ago) link
yeah if he takes that tack itd frustrate me too! & while i see how he could definitely push in that direction based on the citadel chapter, i didnt get the sense of inevitability that you did. though i may need to reread that bit.
― ☂ (max), Tuesday, 31 May 2011 04:28 (twelve years ago) link
trying not to read anything on the thread since i only just finished the second book but i wanted to rant for a second. i feel like martin took my need to have resolution re the lannisters from the first book (really for me, from the tv season) to propel me thru his second book without actually resolving any of the things i actually cared about. re robb v lannisters there is a remarkable lack of resolution on any kind of satisfying level and i'm not sure i want to read the third book w/ the hope that there will be some catharsis. even worse, i feel like the first 75% of the book does basically nothing to forward the action and then he crams all the major shifts in the last 1/4th. does this kind of thing get better in the 3rd + 4th books? i don't want to keep reading if it's going to be the same lack of progress stretched out. i always wondered how these fantasy authors can write thousands and thousands of shitty words in their books and now i kinda feel like (at least re: GRRM) it's bc nothing ever happens in them. argh, frustrating.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 04:53 (twelve years ago) link
im not quite sure i understand what youre saying but theres not a whole lot of "satisfying" resolution at all in the series. are you saying that you wanted the stark and the lannister armies to come head to head and have a winner emerge? i think one thing that people like about martin is that he deliberately avoids that kind of dramatic confrontation. i mean if your inspirations are the wars of the roses or the 30 years war it kind of follows...
but maybe im misunderstanding what you dislike
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:08 (twelve years ago) link
I've been re-reading them in prep for the new one. I'm on Clash of Kings right now and am just loving every minute of it. Savoring every word even of story lines that made me impatient the first time I read it. I guess now that it's just about the journey (already knowing the destination), I am just enjoying his way with words and immersing myself in the world.
― rockapads, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:18 (twelve years ago) link
they don't necessarily need to come head to head but if i'm going to read a 900 page book i don't want the status quo to be basically the exact same in the end as it was in the beginning. those 900 pages should develop something. the daenarys storyline is mired in orientialism and obscurity, the big update in Winterfall is Theon taking control for a minute and a half (and even there, the most dramatic element -- bran + rickon's deaths -- turns out to be a fakeout), stannis is built up throughout the story only to fail anti-climatically during the battle at king's landing, the lannisters open w/ tenuous control of KL and end with only slightly less tenuous control of KL, etc etc. the biggest power shift in the book is the invasion at the very end and that takes multiple chapters of Jon Snow + the brothers wandering in the wastes with pretty much nothing going on. even the character arcs seem totally stalled. arya is pretty much the same character from beginning to end, as is sansa, jon snow, robb (who is barely even present), catelyn, jaime, cersei, joffrey -- really no one changes at all over 900 pages! in most of those cases, traits from the first book are just hammered home further in this one. arya is kinda a badass but out of place gender-wise in the first book? now she actually kills ppl and leads a revolt on that fort. sansa is damaged and tragic? now she's even more damaged and tragic. jon snow is honorable and a bastard? etc. etc. jaime spends all 900 pages in cuffs! i'm not asking for grrm to just have the two armies come head to head and resolve, but i would like some progress in what i'm reading. if you had asked me to extrapolate from the end of the first book till the end of the second one, i'd be pretty otm if i just had guessed everything would stay the same. sansa is still a captive. arya is still on the run. jon is still in the black. robb is still leading a war. jaime is still captured. joffrey is still on the throne...
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:21 (twelve years ago) link
oh, and definitely hate his way w/ words. i know ppl like to say he's not your average fantasy writer but there are so many lines in there that just scan to me like nonsense fantasy tripe. i mean, i love the show and i read the entire second book in a week so it's not like i'm totally immune to the pleasures of the series. i'm just finding it deeply unsatisfied now that i've finished Book 2.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:22 (twelve years ago) link
oh i see what youre saying
yeah a lot of stuff changes in book 3
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:26 (twelve years ago) link
book 3 probably has the most 'progression' out of any in the series so far. its often ppl's favorite for that reason i think. also i think a lot of what happens in book 2 gets paid off in book 3/4, some of what looks like stasis is just slow gestation
but i do agree that martin isnt that great a stylist i think his reputation as a 'better writer' than many fantasy authors is sorta overblown and founded more on appreciation of stuff like his pacing & structure
― Lamp, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:28 (twelve years ago) link
hes not an awful stylist, but hes pretty readable; i think his real talent lies in plotting (which is why the books translate so well to tv), but mordy would seem to disagree.
what lamp says about "gestation" is right. jon snow doesnt really do much that affects the outside world in book 2, but you learn a _lot_ about the wall and night's watch and the wildlings--if all you are looking for is that the 'status quo' change, youll be disappointed, but if you can take pleasure in the slow release of information about the world of asoiaf it might swallow more easily
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:34 (twelve years ago) link
i'd be more impressed maybe if i felt the world building was really striking and original but it's more like he took a lot of classic tropes (the hardened sea-farers, the woodsy tough northerners, the exotic orientals, the decadent capital city inhabitants) and just smash them together. I've read all the DnD sourcebooks, I'm not that curious about the lore + legends of the ranger clan in the north.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:37 (twelve years ago) link
Again, I don't want to sound really harsh. There are a lot of enjoyable things about the book and I think when GRRM is writing plot/dialogue it's very strong. It's just... thousands of pages long. That's a huge investment of time and energy and I'm not sure the payback has been sufficient yet. Maybe I'll try the third book tho and see how it goes. I may eventually just wiki every character and find out what ends up happening that way.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:38 (twelve years ago) link
hmmm i dont particularly want to argue into liking the books but i think if youre going to dismiss the pleasure in discovering the mechanics of how the fantasy world works than you maybe just arent going to like epic fantasy much?
i mean max is right a big part of what book 2 is doing (and book 4 is concerned with this to an extent as well) is filling in the black spaces on the map & trying to give the reader a better sense of what this world is like, what the rules are. ill agree that martin's not the greatest or most interesting world-builder but hes got some interesting things going on & its still an important part of the genre, i guess?
― Lamp, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:43 (twelve years ago) link
i dont know that you want the information for some kind of pure pleasure in world-building so much as learning more about the specific political/power dynamic in westeros, and speculating about, or glimpsing, how it might affect the storyline otherwise.
i mean this is not "the way" to enjoy GRRM, just a suggestion to help you get thru the jon snow storylines!
i dunno, im trying to put myself in your shoes and then argue otherwise, cause i really dngaf that the lannisters still held kings landing or whatever. and i never really got the sense that the 'status quo' was the same! i mean, it felt like a ton had happened. but i read books 2 and 3 right in a row and confuse them sometimes so maybe i just dont remember
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:45 (twelve years ago) link
like generally in modern epic fantasy 'the world' is just as important a character as any of the actual cast, its not really considered a 'waste' to spend a bunch of pages furthering the readers understanding of that character obv lots of ppl arent that interested in this level thats ok (xp)
― Lamp, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:45 (twelve years ago) link
but i think if youre going to dismiss the pleasure in discovering the mechanics of how the fantasy world works than you maybe just arent going to like epic fantasy much?
you're not wrong. i delayed reading these books for years bc i had no interest in fantasy novels (despite lots of friends pushing them on me) and only picked them back up bc of the show. fantasy on tv = excellent. in books not so much. maybe i shouldn't be surprised that my prior hesitations were well-founded.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:46 (twelve years ago) link
id argue anyway that whats interesting w/r/t to GRRM's world-building isnt the... specific people, or even the specific institutions, or whatever. its the way those people and institutions interact, i guess? martin is certainly not a historian or political science guy but he has, broadly, a good sense of politics "works" in a world like westeros. (this is open to debate, obviously, but let's just say this is true relative to tolkein.) the war of the 5 kings is interesting not because the 5 kings themselves have boss powers or interesting backstories but because it feels kind of... "real." messy and political and cruel and sad. and one way of looking at bk2 and the semi-unchanging status quo (i mean its kind of a HUGE deal that the martells showed up and pledged fealty to joffrey!) is that, like, thats how it works, sometimes!
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:49 (twelve years ago) link
id say do yourself a favor and read the 3rd book because there are at least 2 really major "game-changers" as they say
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:50 (twelve years ago) link
see, you say that it's a huge deal that the martells showed up and pledged fealty and i google them bc i can't remember who they are or why they were important.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:52 (twelve years ago) link
heh
we can talk about this all night and its going to end with me shouting at you red-faced "YOU'RE JUST READING THEM WRONG" and then storming out
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:53 (twelve years ago) link
fair enough -- i'm not really looking to debate it. i was just curious about soliciting some other ppl's experiences to compare/contrast.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:54 (twelve years ago) link
oh yea sure. like i said, my advice to you is to just read the 3rd one, its what like 10 hours of your life? and then at least youll have more evidence when you want to argue with people about it. i bet youll hate the 4th one but its shorter than the other 3
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 05:56 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i guess what i sd upthread about 3 still stands. it will probably be a more rewarding xp at least finishing that one and then giving up than leaving things here (xp: i guess what max sd).
― Lamp, Monday, 27 June 2011 05:58 (twelve years ago) link
id argue anyway that whats interesting w/r/t to GRRM's world-building isnt the... specific people, or even the specific institutions, or whatever. its the way those people and institutions interact, i guess?
yeah he obviously brings a lot of care and attention to detail when hes on the political maneuvering stuff & hes got a creates a good sense of this vast interplay btw all the different noble houses & other institutions that are part of the 'game' so im always disappointed that he doesnt seem to bother with them same depth for most of the other parts of his world. i mean i dont need to know the byzantine political history of asshai by the shadow but in many other fantasy epics youd get the sense the author does.
― Lamp, Monday, 27 June 2011 06:06 (twelve years ago) link
(i mean its kind of a HUGE deal that the martells showed up and pledged fealty to joffrey!) is that, like, thats how it works, sometimes!
― ☂ (max), Monday, June 27, 2011 1:49 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
heh, you mean the tyrells! helping mordy's case here possibly
i will say that i thought book 1 was the best-written book in terms of the story it told from beginning to end - its just a tight piece of work. and when i was in mordy's place (finishing book 2, getting into book 3) i sorta had this feeling like 'i'm digging this, i'm invested in the world, but i dont think the series is ever gonna reach the height of book 1 again' - but then shit got real again and it reinvigorated how i was feeling about the series
― Ayatollah Colm Meaney (Princess TamTam), Monday, 27 June 2011 06:07 (twelve years ago) link
whoops lol
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 06:08 (twelve years ago) link
shouldve just stuck w/ "the reach"
i wonder if i avoided the ennui by just buying books 2/3/4 at one time and jumping rite into book 3 after book two. its a lil easier to stomach treading water if youve got actual plot coming up right away--i feel like in retrospect book 4 will seem less annoying when paired w/ dance into dragons
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 06:10 (twelve years ago) link
*knocks wood* *crosses fingers*
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 06:15 (twelve years ago) link
mordy somewhat otm, i dunno. it may help you to learn that in the original plan for the series (when it was a 2,400 page fuckin' trilogy) the first novel covered all of book one and half of book two, which goes a long way towards explaining why the plotting and pacing starts to go increasingly awry -- i feel like a lot of all the other books has the terrible feeling of "i have major unresolved structural issues preventing me from getting to the next bullet point, but i guess i can spin out another 200 pages on the mud vikings or the spainishmen or whatever"
i feel like everything we 'learn' about how the 'world' of westeros 'works' is fairly arbitrary -- it's my contention that he decided his medieval england analogue was actually the size of south america somewhere between books one and two --
martin is certainly not a historian or political science guy but he has, broadly, a good sense of politics "works" in a world like westeros. (this is open to debate, obviously, but let's just say this is true relative to tolkien.) the war of the 5 kings is interesting not because the 5 kings themselves have boss powers or interesting backstories but because it feels kind of... "real." messy and political and cruel and sad
see this is kind of a weird thing because tolkien is so emphatically not concerned with how politics works? i don't know. but there is basically a sign posted outside lotr saying THIS WAY FAIRYLAND, SUSPEND DISBELIEF ABOUT LOGISTICS PLEASE; a lot of fantasy fiction works this way; & yeah to anyone who says tolkien is bad because the politics don't work i reserve the right to go "YOU'RE JUST READING THEM WRONG" myself, not that i even like tolkien
anyway i think the reason it all feels totally arbitrary to me is that the war-of-the-roses stuff feels messy and real &c. until i stop and think about how this is meant to be an entire continent it's happening on -- like, you can't just scale up and expect it to work! medieval england was already nowhere near as monocultural as martin makes westeros. this is why i'm harping on the food thing upthread -- like he's just slapped on a 'spanish' texture pack.
also just .. the war of the roses is the least interesting period of history anywhere in the world ever
― thomp, Monday, 27 June 2011 10:23 (twelve years ago) link
im not saying tolkein is bad because of politics!!
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 11:30 (twelve years ago) link
im anticipating criticisms (like yours) that grrm doesnt _actually_ get politics (which i think is true) by saying that were talking in a relative way here
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 11:31 (twelve years ago) link
and anyway youre obviously right martin isnt nearly the historian/sociologist/political scientist he or his most fervent fans would like him to be. i tend to be a little more annoyed at his insistence that history is shaped by the decisive actions of a handful of nobles and that dynasties are won and lost in a single instant than by his cruddy geo-cultural sense
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 11:40 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i think that would probably annoy me more too, except i have an incredibly pedantic mindset
― thomp, Monday, 27 June 2011 12:09 (twelve years ago) link
i might stop complaining about the olives and start complaining about the ravens instead
― thomp, Monday, 27 June 2011 12:11 (twelve years ago) link
i've read about 3.75 books and it is pretty clear to me that GRRM is not my kind of nerd? in that what gets GRRM off is court intrigue and genealogy and the word "ser" (see it's not england it has an E) whereas i am more of a grain prices guy. that aside though he writes good !!!!! moments (book 3 has The Big One) and if his characters aren't "complex" in the shakespearian sense they do refuse to be placed firmly in a column. or at least they die unexpectedly. and in a few cases (most of them girls, actually -- dany, sansa -- but also samwell and maybe littlefinger) i really dig the arcs, partly because of how slow and painful they are, and how many times they refuse to satisfy traditional fantasy-epic expectations; i love for example how samwell goes on a big globetrotting adventure without actually Finding His Courage.
the prose is bad but it's pulp fantasy. much worse exists. for what it's worth mordy i do remember 2 being the boring one.
― my Sonicare toothbrush (difficult listening hour), Monday, 27 June 2011 17:54 (twelve years ago) link
i guess what i mean re: "refuse to satisfy" is that all the characters start as cliches (weary noble warrior! restless tomboy! bratty minor princess! fat coward! bitch!) but the books make a point of frustrating their ideas of themselves.
― my Sonicare toothbrush (difficult listening hour), Monday, 27 June 2011 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, i think that's probably the series biggest strength. Obviously grrm hasn't performed a full "deconstruction" of the genre (whatever that would entail) but he subverts it in ways that make the series 1m times more enjoyable.
― ☂ (max), Monday, 27 June 2011 18:03 (twelve years ago) link
so i'm enjoying the third book much more than the second. no complaints really about any of the major arcs/storylines except -- holy shit the Arya stuff is boring. i never thought her plot would become my least favorite but it definitely drags the most (well, Bran too). i don't know why there's all this focus on the super boring tedious Stark kids (Robb is okay, and Jon, and Sansa is a cipher but in interesting locations/interacting with interesting characters but the little ones...)
― Mordy, Friday, 8 July 2011 06:17 (twelve years ago) link
arya rules fuiud.
― one dis leads to another (ian), Friday, 8 July 2011 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
who are you
― ((( (Lamp), Friday, 8 July 2011 21:14 (twelve years ago) link
yeah arya chapters in that book best stuff among all four. the names list, etc
― abcfsk, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:18 (twelve years ago) link
I'm just boggling that someone could be more interested in Sansa than either Arya or Bran
― DJP, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:19 (twelve years ago) link
Bran is the most boring throughout, let's be fair. Nothing happens to him except for his emoing.
― abcfsk, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:23 (twelve years ago) link
that's not really true...?
― DJP, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
The Bran parts of book II are esp. great. Admit that his parts in the book III are not my favorites however.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 July 2011 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
HEY I GOT ALL MY BOOKS BACK, PREPARING FOR MASSIVE RE-READ OF 3/4!
― manager expects you to work past 6PM but won't allow you to change into (Laurel), Friday, 8 July 2011 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
i think grrm's biggest f-u moment is the bran/jon passing each other in the north bit
― remy bean, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
i just finished rereading 3 today, and i'm gonna try to read 4 by tuesday
― remy bean, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:27 (twelve years ago) link
― Number None, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:27 (twelve years ago) link
Arya is probably my favorite character in the whole series.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 8 July 2011 21:28 (twelve years ago) link
HODOR is mine
― remy bean, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:29 (twelve years ago) link
#teampodrick
― ☂ (max), Friday, 8 July 2011 21:30 (twelve years ago) link
Tyrion 4 Life
― Number None, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:31 (twelve years ago) link
Started a thread for the new book: Anticipating GRRM's A Dance With Dragons
― schwantz, Friday, 8 July 2011 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
maybe Arya gets better but so far it's just been "arya trying to escape / arya gets captured" beat played over and over again.
― Mordy, Saturday, 9 July 2011 04:05 (twelve years ago) link
have you been keeping a "wench" tally
― my Sonicare toothbrush (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 9 July 2011 05:35 (twelve years ago) link
Finished Feast of Crows!
Really came to hate the Cersei chapters, partly for GRRM's less than sterling prose, partly for how thinly he fleshes out her character. Agree w/ Princess TamTam (Dornish?) upthread about her deal being paranoia instead of outright stupidity, but the way that he writes marked direct speech (i.e. what I allude to here) gets incredibly tiresome in Cersei's chapters -- mostly because GRRM seems more invested in having us look down on her all inna "lol @ her smug butt" way rather than focus on giving her more dimensionality (she's been WAY more interesting in the tv show). That said, very very happy where she ends up in the book, so clearly GRRM is doing something right.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARYA~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ;_; I am so ready to have her become a blind assassin though, which I no doubt will be able to read about in 2017.
I have to say some of the TWISTS, even in book 3, are telegraphed, even the Red Wedding, which for narrative-structural reasons (the way the chapters were set up) and plot reasons (why would Frey marry off what's her name to you know who especially when HE'S in a better bargaining position?) I saw coming. But then heheh I was all o_OO_o in the epilogue.
Also, a minor I've been wondering about the second book: why do Tyrion's mountain men hang with him in such an obedient way? These guys were on the verge of chopping off his manhood and feeding it to the goats in book 1, then in book 2 they're his unquestioning bodyguards. Were the splendors of King's Landing so, uh, splendid that they awed them into submission?
Finally: 3 > 1 > 2 > 4.
― Leee, Lord of Wtfomgham (Leee), Sunday, 2 October 2011 00:20 (twelve years ago) link
PS I figured that by the time I was going to finish book 4 that book 5 would be out in paperback, but clearly I'm going to have to splurge on the hardcover now.
― Leee, Lord of Wtfomgham (Leee), Sunday, 2 October 2011 00:22 (twelve years ago) link
yeah the way that for a few hundred pages people are going "hey remember the LAWS of HOSPITALITY which are REAL IMPORTANT which no one EVER EVER breaks" is kind of ..... nnnghh
like i'm not sure if this is inept foreshadowing or even more inept dramatic irony
oh well, see you on the book five thread
― thomp, Sunday, 2 October 2011 12:16 (twelve years ago) link
Yes, it's slogging. About 60% of the way through now, and so much Ironmen padding grrr. Though people who've read everything out assure me that by the time the 6th book comes out he'll have set everything up for something huge. Anyway, LOLed heartily at Lancel's description of treason. Liking Cersei & the Dornish settings a lot.
I'm glad to see the storyline with the sparrows because it hopefully means there's going to be something big with the faith militant/the red woman's religion and it's not just a buildup to nothing.
Now to read the comments upthread...
― gyac, Friday, 6 April 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
You'll appreciate aFfC more in retrospect.
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Friday, 6 April 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
I finished this! Saggy midsection but flew through it in the last third of the book. Could have lived without description of Sam's "fat pink mast".
I understand why people moaned about it as it can be quite slow going and at times you wonder why the fuck there's so much Iron Islands stuff, for example, but looking back at it all, you can see things shifting into place.
Starting ADWD now. I really hope he can deliver on this big climax.
― gyac, Wednesday, 18 April 2012 22:38 (eleven years ago) link
the iron islands stuff were the only parts of affc i really hated.
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Wednesday, 18 April 2012 22:39 (eleven years ago) link