Strange Tales of Hassidic Jews

favorite NYC subway sight -- young hasidics on the platform singing along to the 50 cent songs on their ipods!

does not stick to the original qn

I can't help but feel like the Hassidm in NYC proper are a little more interesting/cultured/worldly than elsewhere though. The ones in this small NY state town sound a little provincial to me.

This sort of crap happens all the time because mofos don't STICK TO THE PROPER TRANSLITERATIONS. It bothers me when people say "you can spell Yiddish anyway you want -- just write it the way it sounds". WTF? Maybee eyel rite Inglish thuh wey it sowndz too!

("gey shloffn" is the proper spelling)

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god willing, it'll fall even quicker.

I would hope so, but I talked to a kid in Milwaukee who had just gotten back from studying in Manhattan for a couple of years and when I started talking about my NYC experiences, it sounded like he hadn't really been outside of the yeshiva (or perhaps he just couldn't admit to it in front of his parents).

wtf does that mean

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a "shul bus" maybe?

(ps. I AM JEWISH)

Hahah Slocki do you live in my street! :) I have: a Rabbincal college 3 doors up in my street, several synagogues, and various Jewish schools about. I love it, I really do. I especially love Fridays when I walk to the shops and there are Hasid (or maybe Lubavicht) guys on the footpath with a card table with teffilim on them, handing them out. Whats that about, I'm curious! I mean I know what they are, but why do they stand around handing them out like christians do pamphlets?

Its interesting because unlike xianity where they always try and convert anyone, I suppose you cant do that in Jewish faith, so I wonder what the "sales pitch" is all about.

Hassidic = more specific term referring to the folk that wear black coats, black hats, long curly sideburns, fringed clothing etc.

For example, there's such a thing as "modern orthodox" -- people who might wear Yarmulkahs, not drive on sabbath, keep strictly kosher, but don't necessarily live as isolated from the rest of the world, wear modern clothing.

It's tricky though, and the lines get blurred all the time. Some of the girls at my gf's office wear fashionable clothing, but just don't show much skin, for example.

and trayce, what they're trying to do (most likely) is get non-observant jews to follow the laws.

the "sales pitch" is convincing people like me (ie, less crazy Jews) that I'm betraying my cultural traditions by shaking hands with unmarried women, etc. Seriously, the proseletyzing is so horribly sanctimonious and condescending, its part of why I have such a visceral negative reaction.

Right, that's what I was getting at. My mum pointed to some Hassidim when I was a kid and said "They don't consider us real jews, to them we're no better than if we went to church". !!!

OK, a religious minority.

I'm a Jew myself.

you're not a Hasidic Jew. I suppose it would be like a Catholic discussing the strange ways of Presbyterians.

ah whatever. I think this thread is more "strange religous groups and their strange ways" rather than "HURRR HURRR HURRR".

Otherwise, I guess it's a bit like the Amish -- just a community of people who choose to isolate themselves somewhat and lead a radically differnet lifestyle, and I'm not against that in itself.

they're interesting, though, in that they don't go off and live in isolated rural communities but actively live in Babylon cheek by jowl with the infidel.

anyway, i've been approached several times by lubavichers -- maybe i look jewish?!?

I will say, however, that I never feel as cool and street as when I'm dealing with Hassidic Jews, so I'm sure there's a good deal of condescension on my part as well.

anyway, i'm not really pissed off about, live and let live, they pretty much never talk to me so i have no reason to be upset, and i could care less if they think i'm a "real jew" or not.

an article about kiryas joel, NY

A pro of the Hassidic community: it is good for my mom, who suffers from severe bipolar disorder and they are obligated to take care of her, basically. I think the incredibly strict structure is good for her as well, as irritating as I find it.

Hasids came to my house twice as a teenager. One time my mom answered the door and they recoiled in shock when she almost touched them welcoming them into our house, saying they couldn't touch her because she was "unclean". My mom was livid.

The Hassids also rallied heavily against any municipal Christmas displays, insisting that Jewish symbols be given equal time. This amounted to a gaudy, completely unnecessary giant electrical menorah going up on the main street in town. I assume it was modeled on the giant electrical menorah that the Hassidic Rabbi had attached to the top of his station wagon. All this did was exacerbate tensions between the Jewish and Christian communities, and the Jewish and Hassidic communities (most of the Reform congregation are not big on ostentatious public displays of either Judaism OR Christianity).

this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I guess you didn't see the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where this custom was reviewed.

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Haha, really? What season was that in?

"you are a messenger from OUR GOD. You are carrying a DELIVERY that was meant for US!".

I doubt we had a more aggressive Hassidic rabbi than Rebbe Schneerson. fuck that megalomaniac.

Season Four, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd last episode. Gina Gershon played a Hassidic Jew who wasn't very observant, shall we say. Larry wanted to sleep with her and cash in on his 10th anniversary present.

he is quite funny. I got the impression his initial numerology pitch is what they teach you on page one of "Kabbalah for Tards".

but, not all are so isolationist, the lubavichers especially, although the reason they arent is basically just so they can get more diverse and scattered fallen jews into the fold.

on another note, that day in June must have been Lag B'omer. it's a day for being out in the fields havin fun, traditionally bows and arrows, but i cant remember why quite.

when israeli politicos visit NYC they protest at their hotels!

I was working in Park Slope a couple months ago and a this Lubavicher, who tried to convince to put on t'fillin ("you don't have to be religious to wear t'fillin!"), gave me the Lubavicher newsletter "for Jews everywhere". There was an article based on an extended metaphor of life as a journey and religion being "what you pack" but the set-up took forever and read like a ridiculously broad parody of stereotypical Jewish neurosis--"when you're packing for a trip, it's hard to know what to bring? Should I bring this suit or that suit? Do I need boot and shoes? Will I be attending formal and informal events? WHAT IF IT RAINS?!" etc

yup. they're also the hasidics that people are most likely to encounter in williamsburg (b/c that's where they live -- there and upstate in kiryas joel, NY). they are pretty much the mortal enemies of the lubavichers (who live in crown heights). dunno whether the satmars proselytize as much as the lubavichers, or if they don't proselytize at all.

because of the influence of chabad/lubavich now i think that other groups have started their own programs.

my rabbi/teacher during high school grew up in a non-lubavich hasidic group. at around 18 he fell in with the lubavichers. his mother cried as if he'd converted to christianity.

anyway, i used to work at a firm where one of the attorneys is an orthodox rabbi (in westchester county). i became pretty friendly w/ the rabbi, and he used to have some pretty not-nice things to say about the hasidim. i think that they embarrassed him.

er

"Trembling Before G-d", yes, I saw it (I forgot that Zorn did the soundtrack!). I didn't walk away from it enlightened or anything, as it plays out as you'd expect (i.e. "my family doesn't understand me, I can't change my faith or my sexual orientation, G-d understands") but it's quite poignant nonethless.

(hmmm, my comment doesn't read like an endorsement, but it is)

I remember reading somewhere that there are more Lubavitchers than Hassidim in London, mainly around stamford hill.

But it is only transmitted maternally, so it must be mitochondrial!

I haven't even read this thread fully yet but GAH

Half of my customers at my store are hasidic or orthodox mostly from Kiryas Joel and/or WIlliamsburg (The rest from Monsey, Lakewood, NJ, and Borough Park)

I have gotten to the point where I can make out a little bit of Yiddish too.

On this, Rabbi Nachman of Bratzlav spun his parable:

Once upon a time, the king said to his beloved chief minister:

- When I look at the stars, I see astrologically that everyone who eats of this year's crop will go mad. So advise me, my friend, what should we eat this year?

The chief minister replied:

- My advice is, Your Majesty, that you give an order that enough of last year's crop be readied for us and so we shall not eat at all from this year's.

The king asked again:

- What is the advantage of your decree? What profit will there be for us if we are the only ones who are sane and everyone else is mad? They will all say that we are the ones who are insane not them. And if you are thinking to prepare enough from last year's crop for the others, our barns do not hold sufficient stocks for that.

- And so, what would your advice be, Your Majesty? - asked the chief minister.

The king replied:

- My advice is that we have no choice but to eat from the year's new crop and to become insane together with the whole world. But I would like the two of us to be different from other people and at least to know that we are mad, while the others will not know.

The chief minister asked:

- May Your Majesty teach me how we are to do that?

The king:

- For that, too, I have an answer. Let us engrave on our foreheads a mark and sign of insanity. Whenever I look at you and you look at me, we will know that we are mad.

New Square, NY is a hasidic village north of NYC. Out of the 1412 votes cast in the 2000 Senate elections, 1400 went to Hillary Clinton.

http://www.detnews.com/2001/politics/0105/04/a05-220310.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/worship/images/synplan.gif

The rabbi stands at the bimah, and the Torah is located inside of the ark. In my experience, where in the illustration it says women's seats are usually seated men as well. The woman form a second ring around the men, usually behind a lattice screen, or they can also be on the next floor level, seated above the men and looking down. I've never seen an actual mirror though.

tell shakey!

I'm not finding fault with any particular group of people! I'm just saying that coming from the culture that I was brought up in, having women sit behind a mirror and fucking through a sheet is pretty strange!

I have major issues with the theology and political ideologies and practices of a lot of orthodox sects of pretty much every religion. (I'm sure there all very nice people though)

Bullshit.

Snopes agrees with you.

Also, it doesn't matter whether or not the majority of people in a culture do something, it can still be considered deviant if it strays from the norm. Norms are developed, and though they change over time, there's often a lag between what a culture considers a norm and how the majority of people act. Then there's always hypocrites, too.

Driving around Williamsburg a few years ago with some friends of mine, looking for some elusive restaurant or record shop or some such (don't remember). Being a Manhattan snob, I know precious little about Brooklyn and am familiar with its neighborhoods in the same way I'm familiar with the neighborhoods of, say, central Cambodia (i.e. not at all). In any case, I do know that Williamsburg, along with being the then-home of both my beloved Cop Shoot Cop and Peter Luger's Ass-whupping, vegan-troubling Steak House, is a veritable hotbed of Hassidic Judaism. In any case, we're driving around looking for this place, and we keep noticing little pockets of Hassidic Jews gathered on street corners in seemingly synchronized patterns. Then we'll travel blocks and blocks where we don't see any, then turn a corner and again there'll be droves of them. I comment on this, and my friend Rob turns around and says:

"Yeah, it's like now Hassidim, Now Ya Don't!"

We laugh so hard we have to pull over.

Hassidic Judaism teaches that the husband and wife both must be naked during sex.

foreplay is mandatory

one of the laws is that the husband has to make sure the wife has an orgasm before he does

hassidim have very hot sex

i know

because i am one

:)

Once upon a time, three men were confined in a prison. There were no windows in this prison, no light seeping through any chinks in the wall, no glimmer slipping quietly beneath the door. It was pitch-black in there. So dark, not even the darkness could see.
Now, two of these unlucky fellows, they were very learned, very intelligent men. Great teachers, admired and followed by many. The other, poor soul, he was a simpleton. He knew nothing, nothing at all. He couldn't put his clothes on, he couldn't feed himself, nothing. So, one day, one of these learned men made a decision: he would teach this poor fellow! There, in that darkness. He would teach this poor soul all he needed to know: how to dress himself, how to feed himself, button his buttons, hold a spoon, everything.

He worked hard. But that other fellow, that other learned man? He did nothing, nothing at all. Shameful.

Finally, one day, the hardworking teacher had all he could take. "Friend, I do not understand! Why do you just sit there, waiting? How can you do nothing for this poor simple soul?"

The other man listened, thoughtful. Then, finally, he spoke. "My friend, I understand that you have been working hard. I understand what you have been trying to do. Now, understand me. In my waiting, I have been working, too. You see, in this darkness, I fear: though you teach this poor soul, you will teach him nothing. No matter how many years you try. In this darkness, he can learn nothing of value at all. And so, I sit here thinking. How might I break a hole in that wall? How might I let the light in to this prison? When that happens, my friend, this man can learn for himself all that he needs to know."

"Others think that tales are a good remedy to put one to sleep; I maintain that stories are useful to awaken people."
- R. Nachman of Bratzlav

Hottt Hassidic Sex! Volume One

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I went to a Catholic high school and, believe it or not, received very little education on this subject.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/lynskey/penny.jpg

Some of my friends in nearby Ganton claim that they don't mix too much with "the Sith", as I believe they call us non-Hassdic jews. That's not the case around my neck of the woods, they're very socially active, mainly organising festivals celebrating early and mid 80's commercial reggae - although my band did get told off last year for playing "Pass The Dutchie", which apparently has "unclean" lyrics.

for real, i saw a thing about it on TV.

-- Sengai (pjrobins200...) (webmail), October 8th, 2005 9:56 AM. (later) (link)

They want to make sure actual jews are being jewish up to their standards. They don't convert christians.

I'm sorry if I caused offense but my understanding was that many orthodox Jews were concerned about how secular some of their less traditional bretheren had become.

I know for a fact that's bullshit. It's actually impossible on account of these "brisks" that they have just after they're born where they lob the penis off. I saw a thing on FOX about it.

Also, the bedsheet stuff was addressed way upthread.

-- Jonothong Williamsmang (SUCCUM...), October 8th, 2005.

You said that they were trying to convert Jews, as implied from the last clause in your sentence. If you knew anything about Judaism you wouldn't have written that.

Quit being such a fucking dick. Why do you care random person who has never posted here before?

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Some of the people posting today are trolling, Thomas as the sheet thing was addressed earlier in the thread. I think.

When I was in college I used to get asked if I was Jewish by Orthodox Jews that came onto campus. My Jewish friends told me that if they said yes, they got hassled. The notion is that the people doing this concerned about the way that people who profess their faith practice it, not people of different faiths.

a briss in brisk...

And I have some half-remembered thing in a far corner of my brain suggesting that it's a gender thing, that if Hasidic men see a woman improperly attired or otherwise err, what's the equivalent of treyf for social conduct? not-frum? anyway, that they'll ignore a woman because to appear to notice or otherwise be drawn into something not-frum would be contrary to the law. I know women don't have the same responsibilities in worship/observance that men do, don't know if that has anything to do with public social behavior.

I'm not asking you or anyone to draw any conclusions, per se, just wondering if there's a known basis for the weirdness.

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/21/2176/1024/hasidic.jpg

Can someone deindex this thread before it gets ugly?

Anyway. To underline my previous point - until I moved to melbourne, I cant say I had ever met or seen an orthodox Jewish person such as a Hasid... I had no idea of any of the sub-faiths until only a few years ago. Want to call me ignorant? Please don't. I merely grew up in a city that honest to goodness has probbaly a .001% Jewish population. It is something I never knew much about til I moved to a very Hasidic neighbourhood in another city. And I find it really interesting, actually.

I'm not religious though, so of course I dont agree with any of it in that sense. But eh.

http://www.heebmagazine.com/images/magazine/issue9.jpg

re Cheskies (omg black-and-white cookies and poppyseed croissants1)
My friend Kyla used to work there (maybe Charlotte replaced her - who knows?). Not Jewish. Although there were varying degrees of weirdness from the clientele, she had only the warmest things to say about Mr Cheskie. Among the Hasids I've been exposed to, I find it very interest the extreme variance of attitudes toward gentiles and non-frum Jews. Normal people are weird, rude, kind, etc., but among the ultraorthodox community there's (what appears to me as) exaggerated versions of these behaviours. Ultraambivalent is much more striking than just-plain-ambivalent, ditto for generosity and rudeness and awkwardness. So I notice(d) it a lot.

Recently, one of our neighbors said that he didn't want to rent to 2 black dudes even though they passed a credit check, etc.

i knew it was true!

but shvartzers make LOUSY landlords!

hahahahahahahaha

Today I got approached by one of those Chabad sukkot guys. I was kind of rushing to class and really not trying to be a dick or anything, but he was persistent, and I kept saying, "Sorry, I'm running late," and the guy goes, "But don't you want to just hold it? Just hold it!"