Will that guy on Jeopardy ever lose?

I went on a gameshow to finance my Transatlantic relocation. I even posted about it on ILX.

SEE?

ILXers, I need your help...A gameshow thread

What my dad might lack in speed he makes up for in loud passion and being right a lot.

NAME/SEASON/TOTAL
Tom Walsh 20 $ 184,900
Brian Weikle 19 $ 149,200
Arthur Gandolfi 20 $ 137,300
Sean Ryan 20 $ 123,797
Chris Miller 20 $ 123,597
John Beck 19 $ 117,099
Scott "Renzo" Renzoni 20 $ 112,998
Seth Alcorn 19 $ 106,400
Frank Spangenberg 6 $ 102,597
Tom Baker 20 $ 102,300

xpost you think I'm up that early?!?

Seriously though, good question. I don't know as I don't think I've paid attention while they interviewed him. I'll get back to you on it.

did they double the dollar-values and eliminate the five-day rule at the same time they surgical removed Alex (Canadian) Trebek's moustache?

Satan wins.

= Possibly the greatest thing about the internet

It's high entertainment, as the main opposition to them are other Xtian fundies, doing "SATAN IS HERE" protests.

dude, ask the question in the form of an answer pls.

also: someone answered, "What is Mohammedism?" and they counted it RIGHT WTH

xpost

This was the first time in at least 10 years that I'd watched Leno attempt to interview someone -- he has to be the biggest dumbass on TV.

ratings are up up UP

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/09/08/entertainment2352EDT0227.DTL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Jennings

I found this because Alex Trebek asked him tonight if he'd ever googled himself, so of course I had to do it.

He's at $2 247 000 now.

What's odd is that Nancy won with merely just over $14,000 or so. Ken shot himself in the foot with all the questions/answers that required him to make wagers. It seemed like he was towards the bottom end of every $5,000 bracket (he always bets up to 5, 10, 15, 20, and so on), and, worse, he got them wrong. Nancy doesn't strike me as someone who'll carry the baton of the slayer. She was merely the competent player in the right place at the right time.

i haven't watched any of this at all, but I heard quite a long time ago (popbitch maybe?) that this was ovah. they film a bunch of episodes at a time a long time in advance, so it's not like ppl are going back to burbank every day to play again.

I assumed he would just quit voluntarily, all his laurels meaningless, and wander the earth like a trivia miyamoto musashi.

That Trebek scares me, I'm sure he killed the Kennedys.

They didn't. It leaked onto the web almost immediately.

But in the end, Ken did more to lose than she did to win, although Ken -- characteristically -- won't admit that when asked in interviews.

"Oh my, I won?"

"Hell, no - I threw that shit!"

Apparently he lost
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/09/08/entertainment2352EDT0227.DTL

-- Ed (dal...) (webmail), September 9th, 2004 8:36 AM. (dali) (link)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yup, it'll air in october
-- cinniblount

I was happy to see Brad and Jerome in the final. I remember Jerome very well from his initial run -- he was one of the most dominant players I ever saw.

Brad was a more than deserving winner. He crushed his competition in the semifinal, and cruised in the third day of the final. Ken and Jerome actually looked lost out there.

As discussed upthread, "Jeopardy" could learn a thing or two about fanfare. Alex was like "we'll be back tomorrow with regular games". Brad won the match and he reacted like he'd just been congratulated on his tie. DUDE, YOU JUST BEAT LIKE 150 PEOPLE AND WON TWO MILLION DOLLARS. BE HAPPY.

Jerome would have dominated for a while as well. He won $96K during his five days on the show (when the $ totals were half of what they are now) and all five of them were typical Ken wins -- complete dominance. He'd go on long rolls and answer questions all over the board while his opponents just stood there. He finished all his games with 20K to everyone else's 4K and was never seriously tested. When tested, however, in the Tournament of Champions, he made far too many mistakes against quality opponents, fell behind early in the final and couldn't catch up. And that's exactly what happened to him in this tournament (what's more, he was extremely lucky to get out of his quarterfinal match).

Ken: $3,020,700
Brad: $3,255,102.

So, yes, Ken can pass Brad again if he wins the TOC.

The Wikipedia page here will tell you everything you every wanted to know about the UTOC.

Also, Brad was a five-time champion, won the TOC, and the Million Dollar Masters all within a twelve month span or thereabouts ... so he certainly was a favourite to win the MDM. This all happened so quickly that I guess I was taken by surprise when he won it.

On a question that was almost COMPLETELY freakin' impossible! Lucretia?!?! WHO KNOWS THAT?!?

I think he still is (or was until very recently anyway). He was probably better than the guy who beat him in the semi-finals (Jerome) but he missed the final question (which was pretty damn hard.) Not that it would have made much of a difference.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/07/25/people.kenjennings.ap/index.html

"He knows there's no way I was genuinely calling for angry bees and ventriloquist's dummies to be added to the Jeopardy! format," Jennings wrote on his site. "It's a humor piece, and one which gets its laughs from the outrageous non sequiturs it proposes, not the ripeness of its target for criticism."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20060725/en_tv_eo/19591

What ever happened to Ken Jennings?

took his money and went back to utah?

http://ken-jennings.com/blog/

he'll be trotted out for some end-o-decade fanfare before too long, I imagine.

Haha "a deeply unstable Labrador retriever named Banjo."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCVfWjlMSa4&feature=related

he comes to my shows in seattle

That's awesome.

i would've thought that answer too

he sorta seems like the coolest mormon ever. he's a democrat too!

His little blog post on Gates is very sensible.

Haven't watched the one that aired today, but manchild Stefan kicked some ass all 5 days last week.

yeah, i simultaneously wanna KIW and straight up kick his ass.
It's that little head bobble he gives every time he requests the next question.
That said, dude bet TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS on final jeopardy when he knew he had the game won no matter what and got the answer wrong! That's some RLS 'If' shit right there and I was pretty impressed by how batty he is in his wagers.
Would love for him to run up some sorta three week win run.

haha me too. But I find it hard to hate on someone who is a camp counselor/video game tester.
Yes I love people who have "method to their madness" type wagering. So far I gather he bets it all when he was under 5K, and gets more conservative the more he has (provided he has the lead). The quickness and accuracy with which he cleared the "multples of..." math category leads me to believe he's on some genius level shit rather than a pure "i know a lot of random trivia" type.

god, i had no idea he was a professional video game tester! i always ffwd past the personal info.

Do you tape this shit, Granny Dainger? I kick myself every week when I forget to watch Jeopardy! on Saturday, since it's the only time during the week I can actually see it.

Or DVR or TiVo or whatever it is people do.

Or are you unemployed.

If so, sorry to hear it, man.

But at least you get to watch Jeopardy!

but yeah, the mathematic multiples category was one of those moments where he straight smoked everyone and it was a thing to behold.
Also the first few minutes against the "gadabout" when he absolutely destroyed dude and gadabout was all but holding the buzzer over his head trying to get a question in was straight comedy.
This kid has a system for buzzing that really seems to work; he straight monopolizes the board for minutes at a time.

uh, xpost.

This kid has a system for buzzing that really seems to work

This is supposedly a big, big part of success on the show. Jennings admits that one reason he was able to last for weeks at a time is that he'd gotten so comfortable with the buzzer and knowing exactly when to press down on it after Alex finished reading the clue; in some cases, he may have been evenly matched, knowledge-wise, but he just had that experiential advantage.

current dude's father was a multi-day champ; I think pops imparted some advice.

Also the first few minutes against the "gadabout" when he absolutely destroyed dude and gadabout was all but holding the buzzer over his head trying to get a question in was straight comedy.

OH GOD THAT GUY! Watching him try to answer and freaking out with his buzzer was amazing.

btw I used to watch Jeaopardy with while holding a calculator and keeping score while I was in high school. Yes, I was that sad.

yeah I dvr the series, jaymc. somehow I owned a dvr for months before realizing I should be.

Also the first few minutes against the "gadabout" when he absolutely destroyed dude and gadabout was all but holding the buzzer over his head trying to get a question in was straight comedy.

hahahaha yes! Was so glad that tool had his ass handed to him. A lot of being a good Jeopardy contestant comes down to having quicker reflexes than your opponents. The gadabout's strategy seemed to be to press that mofo a bazillion times as soon as you know the answer, whereas Stefan's seems to be press it once as soon as the question (er, answer, i mean) is "open".

xps

x-post uuuhhhh Jeopardy, rather

Based on what I've read, you have to trust yourself enough to be ready to buzz in as soon as alex is done talking if you even THINK you know the answer to get that rhythm.
and i click the "clear" button on the tivo to buzz in. and shout at the screen a lot.

Buzz-in timing skills are the key to my unbeatability at PS2 Jeopardy vid game.

press that mofo a bazillion times as soon as you know the answer

duuuuuuuuuuuuude I think he learned his Jeopardy skills (nil) from Soul Calibur

I think gadabout was there to write a short story wherein he fulfills the dying wish of his sister. He was more emotional than anyone I've seen play jeopardy ever. When he all but swept the Dylan category he FINALLY calmed down, but dude was really out of control. That's kind of what I imagine I'd be like if they ever let me on.

Does anyone else enjoy the Jeopardy video game?

'The 1 Bill'

They should just put that shit up on Hulu.

God help anyone near me if I know the answer and nobody playing the game does.
"Pimento. Pimento. Pimento! PIMENTO MOTHERFUCKERS! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL IT'S PIMENTO! PIMEEENTOOOOO! SAY IT YOU COCKSUCKERS! PIMENTO!"
"...and no one knew, 'What is... Pimento.'"
"GOD I HATE YOU FUCKERS!"

Based on what I've read, you have to trust yourself enough to be ready to buzz in as soon as alex is done talking if you even THINK you know the answer to get that rhythm.

Well, the main issue, I think, is that if you buzz in before Alex is done talking, even by a microsecond, then you'll be locked out for an entire second, giving your opponents an opportunity to buzz in instead.

(Actually, it might only be a quarter-second, but that's still long enough.)

I've always wondered how the Jeopardy buzzer system works. Also, is there some guy whose only job is to judge when Alex is done talking? Or is it done with a computer?

God help anyone near me if I know the answer and nobody playing the game does.
"Pimento. Pimento. Pimento! PIMENTO MOTHERFUCKERS! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL IT'S PIMENTO! PIMEEENTOOOOO! SAY IT YOU COCKSUCKERS! PIMENTO!"
"...and no one knew, 'What is... Pimento.'"
"GOD I HATE YOU FUCKERS!"

― im a fucking unicorn you douchebags (forksclovetofu), Monday, July 27, 2009 6:03 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Haha me, too, and the only time I ever watch Jeopardy is in the laundromat, so that's kind of fun.

From Ken Jennings's (highly recommended) book Brainiac:

http://i28.tinypic.com/34yzak8.jpg

CHILL OUT POINDEXTER YOURE NOT IN A MOSH PIT

Also the first few minutes against the "gadabout" when he absolutely destroyed dude and gadabout was all but holding the buzzer over his head trying to get a question in was straight comedy.

OH GOD THAT GUY! Watching him try to answer and freaking out with his buzzer was amazing.

― ENBB, Monday, July 27, 2009 3:58 PM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

And what was with the sequined cravat? Or was it an ascot?

I don't know but whatever it was it was awful. I hated him instantly but then he pulled out the dead sister dying wish thing and I felt sort of bad about it.

ARGH i forgot that was the last episode of the season and that guy is on ice for the next several months!
When's the next season start? January?

MOTHERFUCKER SERIOUSLY? I just watched today's episode and was pissed there'd be 2 weeks of teen tournament, but there's no new ones til winter? I don't think of Jeopardy as having seasons.

I love it when contestants get so frustrated with someone else constantly ringing in first that it becomes their only mission to edge them out, and then they finally do and for a milisecond they're thrilled but then they realize they have no clue what the correct response is.

according to youtube: Jeopardy! usually starts on the first Monday in September (occassionally, it may start the second Monday in September), so the 26th season should start Monday September 7th.

ken jennings has blogged about the henry gates arrest. huh.

The coverage of the Professor Gates arrest is starting to astound me–mostly Internet comments. I violated the First Rule of Staying Sane Online: “never look at the comments section under any non-sports story on a newspaper’s website.”

Having occasionally had the misfortune to read comments on sports stories I don't think you're helping your sanity reading those either. Jennings come off as an incredibly balanced guy.

http://www.jeopardy.com/showguide/virtualsettour/
Hope they fix the goddamn music.
Looking forward to seeing the return of captain nerdy.

new set is bonkers

Yeah and they fixed up the music alright too! I'm pleased.

The only time I have ever thought about getting TiVo/DVR/whatever is to watch Jeopardy! A total travesty that it's nowhere online or on DVD.

After the digital switch I lost the network that shows Jeopardy! in my town.
Totally pissed.

That sucks! I get Jeopardy on two channels: one American, one Canadian.

man Wolf Blitzer getting his ass handed to him by Andy Richter tonight was one of the greatest Celebrity Jeopardy moments EVER

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3526/jeopardy.jpg

that new set is great; for some reason I am thinking they should change the Jeopardy intro music to AWK's "It's time to PARTY" except he'll sing "It's time for JEOPARDY" instead

haha, you suck Wolf Blitzer!

it was seriously staggering how boneheaded a lot of his responses were -- in a category where all the answers had 3 E's in them, after Dana Delaney fumbled and said "excerpt" instead of "excerpted," Blitzer rang in to say: ANNOTATED

HAAA OWND BY A COMEDIAN

are people really surprised that wolf blitzer got schooled by andy richter in matters of general knowledge??

not surprising. columbia college education.
xp

not surprised per se, it was just crazy how BADLY wolf did, like it was almost like an SNL skit

that is way beyond a schooling just fyi - im not surprised wolf lost but gdamn - i mean negative on celebrity jeopardy where the questions are sooo easy - AWKWARD

yeah, he was in the red for pretty much the entire episode, and then at the end they gave him a free thousand to bet on w/ Final Jeopardy, and he got to double it with the softest of softball questions (something about "an actor that ironically lost a role as Vice President in 1960 for not looking 'presidential' enough")

Wolf was pretty bad in the training game, too. I thought The Tonight Show just edited to make him look bad, but it's clear that they didn't have to.

http://www.wimp.com/alextrebek/

HA!

yep, that's alex

Does the returning champion on tonight (Jesse) remind anyone else of Puddy from Seinfeld?

lol my dad said the exact same thing. i'm inclined to agree btw

haha i was thinking the exact same thing about puddy actually no joke

ken jennings to face off against robot on jeopardy

Oh, is that happening? I forgot to read the NYT Magazine article about it.

sounds sick - I hope the robot is programmed to give all its questions in the "fitter, happier" voice

also i hope it looks like this:
http://i.cnn.net/money/popups/2006/consumer/expensive_toys/robby_robot.jpg

I, for one, welcome our new game show-winning overlords.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR528D64rpM

those air in february, right?

Guy on tonight not only looks like Jimmy from Degrassi/Drake but he's going into final alone.

This doesn't happen very often!!

and he has a bajillion dollars.

Wait how do you go to Final Jeopardy alone?

I know . . . oooh it's on again

OMG THIS IS SO EASY

This guy's going to win a buttload of money.

Stevie - the other two ppl had no money so they didn't get to move to the final round.

xpost, the other 2 players are in the red at the end of double.

jinx.

;)

Good ep, couldn't really tell though if this guy was a genius or if he just happened to score a couple of sub-par opponents.

no, this guy is really good.
answer about juggalos tonight!

OMG did anyone else see the smug little shit that won kid Jeopardy tonight? Awful.

yes, i did. he was intolerable.

hahahahaha eric i said the same thing

OH YOU THINK YOU'RE SO SLICK WITH YOUR ROLE PLAYING GAME DAYCAMP

also wtf at the girl getting the fdr question right but thinking al gore was gwb's vice prez

i mocked that child for getting the gore question so wrong. it felt great. dumb kid.

gifted children are the most disgusting savages imo, all with their polo shirts and their haircuts that cost more than $10. it's like get out of the library and go wrestle a dog in some mud or something like you're supposed to, you little turds.

were those big dumb smarties mean to you in school?

uhhhh, trebek in blackface....

Pix or didn't happen

did yall watch the Geography Bee when it was on a couple months ago? those particular nerd kids made me happy

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/wls/cms_exf_2007/_video_wn_images/8888502_600x338.jpg

This dude rules

COLBY 4 LYFE

This guy's face. I mean, seriously.

http://i48.tinypic.com/3327xxz.png

He was so offended when Alex asked if he knew that Colby is a kind of cheese

I know! It was awesome.

h8 colby

he never stops mugging

otm he has zero self-awareness also

but good for him winning mad bank & hopefully i never have to see him again

I honestly can't figure out if that look of his is arrogant-smugface or bad-social-skillsface.

he's def not cool is the problem

videobombing trebek's signoff today was n/l though can't front

COLBY IS MISUNDERSTOOD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeKJJhp_jJQ

just watched several clips, dude's hilarious. can totally believe he's a good teacher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgSgg0mfi3A

I loved Colby. His eyebrows have been the highlight of the last couple of weeks.

Has anyone noticed that nearly all of the women on Jeopardy in the last couple weeks (since I started watching again after like 20 years) are incredibly buxom? What is that? Don't know if this has anything to do with the rumor I heard that AT has been known to make the moves on female contestants!

no i havent noticed that

didn't mean anything by it, just noticing after watching two weeks straight. also, people seem to win much more than when i last watched!

rumor has it that alex trebek is retiring just so that he can spend even MORE of his time hitting on women

i was p mad that no 1 could pull gore vidal for that final a few days ago

http://www.businessinsider.com/jeopardys-controversial-new-champion-is-using-game-theory-to-win-big-2014-2

controversy!!

Dumb article and controversy. Tons of people have used the category bouncing strategy before, dating back at least to Chuck Forrest in the 80's, I have no idea why this is just news now. I do agree that it makes the show worse to watch.

‏@arthur_affect
Chuck Forrest pioneered my jump-around-like-a-lunatic strategy on @Jeopardy -- in 1985, when I was one year old #ForrestBounce

There's tons of recent examples too. This is not uncommon at all.

He's a bad boy who can't live by the rules

Am I misremembering or didn't Ken Jennings do this as well?

Yes, he did.

still pretty awesome imo

The recent guy who really gamed the system in a cool way (and also bounced around categories hunting for DDs) was Roger Craig: http://www.npr.org/2011/11/20/142569472/how-one-man-played-moneyball-with-jeopardy

*I remove a card from my hand and place it face down on the table. I slowly slide the card forward. In one quick and fluid movement, I flip the card over. It is the Race card.*

In all seriousness, he does represent a sort of convergence of several nerd stereotypes - the nerd, the Asian nerd, the antisocial nerd, the nerd who doesn't care about social mores because he is ultra-'rational', who only does something if he ends up 'better off' than his previous position, who moves upwards on the Coase curve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TT0TH7NV2Q

So I just watched an episode and I don't get it - he's gone for business casual, okay - he is well-spoken (I think the bio mentions that he does voiceovers or is a voiceover editor?) - he doesn't seem any more aggressive than many other players who have appeared on the show

I mean as far as I know almost every Jeopardy strategy article advocates this kind of thing so I'm not sure what the story is. Roger Craig's methods were a lot more radical in my opinion, certainly not cheating but overall not dissimilar from the dude who taped every episode of Press Your Luck to find the on-board patterns that would allow him to "go infinite"

Well............ it's probably because he's Asian

I gather it's "playing to tie" that's the interesting game theory part.

Explained here: http://youtu.be/hRfXzrTDY-Y

lol, would love to hear more of this game theory = antiasian racism hypothesis

and it's totally dissimilar from press yr luck guy who simply cheated

yeah I hadn't heard of the "playing to tie" thing before and I guess I don't really understand it

memorizing the board patterns isn't cheating! if it was they wouldn't have paid him.

lol, would love to hear more of this game theory = antiasian racism hypothesis

― balls, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:43 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

My tongue was half in my cheek (and look who I was responding to) but

As others have pointed out he's not the first Jeopardy pro-gamer to use game theory in playing

After he's gone viral about half the stories on the first page of a google search are about his 'game theory' techniques, the other half just call him the 'Jeopardy Villain'

Oh & looks like this guy went to Swarthmore. Of course

Seems to me that at least half the story here, if not more, is that he is causing the good-natured folks who watch Jeopardy to become upset and it's not their fault. He is at least a social deviant if not worse and the root of his illness must be rooted out and excised

suspect there have been people who have applied game theory to non-academic settings and come off as assholes before. maybe google 'wall street' and 'villain'.

yeah I hadn't heard of the "playing to tie" thing before and I guess I don't really understand it

i haven't watched the video that jmm posted above because i'm at work, but i thought that he wagered an amount in the final round that would allow another (weaker) contestant to tie him so that they would both move on to the next game. in the clip i watched, the other player who he allowed to tie him was way behind him in $ before the final round. if that meant that she was clearly the weaker contestant, then he would have an interest in bringing her along to the next game because that would effectively reduce his true competition. it would just be him, the clearly weaker player that he strung along, and a third contestant.

suspect there have been people who have applied game theory to non-academic settings and come off as assholes before. maybe google 'wall street' and 'villain'.

― balls, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:55 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Everybody loves Leo DiCaprio, though. What a loveable asshole

Anyway I am rolling back my antiAsian theory after reading that Fox News is on his side http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/04/jeopardy-contestant-arthur-chu-defends-controversial-strategy/

the press your luck guy "cheated" the same way card counters "cheat", iirc

re: the tying strategy - it's not something you could exploit every game, but he clearly seized on the opportunity to improve his chances for the next game. pretty smart, i'd say!

btw, lol at a the large segment of the internet's reaction to this guy that's like "he's not doing anything great, everyone knows this stuff". yeah, clearly if any of US were on jeopardy we'd be busting out the game theory moves left and right

My impression is that if he's allowing someone to tie him then that person may be a threat to beat him though I was missing that he likely had a huge lead when this happened. Sending a message of "I want you to appear on the next show because I think you're below average" does seem rather villainous even if it is brilliant.

http://i.imgur.com/zSHQHdZ.png

Who are these people. I recognize Pierce Brosnan but none of the others

those ppl always look alike to me

so how many episodes has he won so far, 3 or is it 4 now? it seems like a lot of press coverage even if it's his playing style that's getting the attention, are winning streaks of more than a couple days that rare?

I think it's up to 5? And they're doing a Tournie so he's not back until the end of Feb

Also pure game theory disregards the mental states of the contestants

http://thefinalwager.co/2014/01/29/final-jeopardy-january-29-2014/

The first is based strictly on game theory. The whole point of Jeopardy! (see my Rule #0) is to come back the next day; you have a higher chance of doing so if you withhold that extra dollar.

Whether you’re playing a proven challenger or a random player from the pool in your next game is irrelevant. Thinking about your next game is like looking down the field for the end zone before you’ve caught the ball. You need to BE in that next game for it to matter!

yeah, clearly if any of US were on jeopardy we'd be busting out the game theory moves left and right

I remember a category in Double Jeopardy "also a chess piece" which was super easy, considering there are only 6 pieces and five of them were answers, I mean I got them all and I'm pretty stupid. Last clue of the category was a daily double and I was sure the contestant would wager everything, there's only 2 possible answers barring some sort of odd curveball that they almost never do. Alas he/she (can't remember who it was) only wagered $2000 and it was another really easy one, but I was really bothered because really "how do you not wager it all there". I mean I would think most people at home were thinking the same thing but actually being on the show (especially given its fast pace) is probably something else entirely. I mean NFL coaches are constantly terrible at 4th down/punting decisions even though they're clearly smart enough to understand basic game theory stuff. I guess I just don't get it.

ok this graph explains it pretty well

http://thefinalwager.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/The-Final-Wager-Guide-to-Game-Theory-dominance-Slide-11-1024x576.png

doesn't seem to me that it's about trying to get a weaker player in the next game - more that if the trailing player bets enough to cover if you go for a double up + $1 of his score and fail then they win, if you don't bet the extra dollar then you tie. I imagine the show pays both contestants in that case and thus the producers are probably not too happy about this.

the press your luck guy "cheated" the same way card counters "cheat", iirc

i don't really think this is cheating unless you're using external aids. anything that boils down to "using your brain to think about different things than most players" isn't cheating imo

yeah I hadn't heard of the "playing to tie" thing before and I guess I don't really understand it

i would assume its because you're goal is not strictly to 'win' but to maximize the amount of money you get. whether or not another player comes back tomorrow as well is irrelevant to you so risking an extra dollar to be the 'sole winner' is unnecessary and probably riskier. i havent thought about it at all but theres also the possibility that, if the other contestants know you are 'betting to tie' you position them for a less optimal wager.

haha i assume one of the five posts in between when i started typing that and managed to finish has explained the exact same thing but better, but i want to attempt looking smart

Anyway balls if you're looking for a serious answer from me, I just think that enough of the non-racial 'factors' for his virality have been knocked down that I can't disqualify his Asian-ness from being a motivating one. At the very least you can't deny that the man fits very, very neatly into the widespread stereotype of the Asian nerd - I mean just look at him. I'm as receptive as anyone to a convincing, non-racial explanation and I probably have more invested in his race being a non-factor than most people who watch the show. Your point about game theory and the head honchos of Wall Street would have been well accepted if I had felt that 'game theory' had even occupied a small part of the mindspace surrounding the financial crisis. I'll offer a non-racial explanation here: maybe there's a perfect storm here of game theory + social media bloom (Twitter not being nearly as influential in 2011 back when, according to posts itt the last major game theory-user played) + nü-focus on stats and alt ways of thinking-about-games bleedover from sabrmetrics and sportsheads. Or maybe it's because he has a fat head and small eyes and wears glasses and presses the clicker a lot. I dunno.

dude i just saw a cool sounding story about a dude gaming jeopardy to win so i copied and pasted, i doubt most virality vector-helpers have much more going on than that either

yeah i think the tying thing is just that it's irrelevant if you actually "win" the game... you go to the next day regardless

I'm not implicating you j. or anyone itt at all! I was asked to give an explanation so I turned down the snark for a post and did so. That's all

man shouldn't we be turning all this heavy analytical machinery on world hunger or something

people are angry because he's playing the game as written, not as normally played. people play jeopardy like the goal is to answer questions correctly and do so more often than your competitors

in reality, the goal of jeopardy is to maximize the number of dollars you get and move on to the next round. allowing someone else to get the same amount as you and move to the next round has no negative effect on you. the board-jumping might be annoying to viewers, but getting butthurt about a tie is just outing the tendency of people to love zero-sum games and hate cooperation

you do still have to beat people on buzzer races, which you don't if they're eliminated

Also I'm having a pretty hard day. I had just bought this big ice cream cone and, just as I was about to have some, it fell off the cone and onto the ground before I could lick, balls then asked that question, so I was pretty ornery in my response. I'm sorry

between the three week break and all the press this has gotten i wonder if someone will try to flip this strategy back on him when they come back

Almost all of the contestants on Jeopardy wager horribly, especially from the 2nd place position. It's good to see somebody put thought into the wagers.

in a few of the games he's had a pretty average round but he can pick up like 8k in a minute and essentially end the game

lol there was no offense of any kind taken dayo

mad sympathy for your cone plop

xp yeah, the buzzing in and normal jeopardy parts are someone zero sum in that points you don't get *could* go to your competitors assuming they answer the question correctly. but final jeopardy, which can affect the whole game, definitely isn't

also, hunting like mad for the daily double and then just immediately answering "lol I dunno" is pretty classic

My impression is that they tape several shows in a row, right? Like they do the whole season in like a few weeks or less

arthur's buzzer mashing is hilarious too, it's very childlike

between the three week break and all the press this has gotten i wonder if someone will try to flip this strategy back on him when they come back

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, February 5, 2014 9:29 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i would imagine his 'return' episodes are already taped...don't they usually work about 4-5 weeks ahead?

wow so you nerd still watch a lotta jeopardy huh

Back when I used to watch Jeop on the reg, nearly every show had a button masher tho

I do agree that Arthur's APM is impressive compared to the rest (only true Azn nerds will get this joke)

for the hive, right

you do still have to beat people on buzzer races, which you don't if they're eliminated

sure, but you're going to have to beat someone on buzzer races in the next taping - it shouldnt matter to you if its current contestant A or next taping hopeful B

between the three week break and all the press this has gotten i wonder if someone will try to flip this strategy back on him when they come back

yeah this is interesting to me - other players knowing you are aggressively hunting for the daily doubles means they should be doing the same, but other players knowing you are 'playing for the tie' makes wagering potentially trickier for contestants going into final jeopardy in second place.

Also I'm having a pretty hard day. I had just bought this big ice cream cone and, just as I was about to have some, it fell off the cone and onto the ground before I could lick, balls then asked that question, so I was pretty ornery in my response. I'm sorry

― 龜, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:28 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this post has the most important comma of all time

I do agree that Arthur's APM is impressive compared to the rest (only true Azn nerds will get this joke)

dont front like you even

Kekekekeke

lol you seriously think 'this guy plays the game in a way that is beneficial to him but ruins the experience for much of the audience and comes across as against the spirit of the game' has been 'knocked down' but 'america has never seen an asian nerd on jeopardy before and is in a panic' stands up? which while not denying dude is asian and a nerd he hardly fits the stereotype of the asian nerd, you might want to revisit sixteen candles and revenge of the nerds again. anyone who applies game theory or really any kind of counterintuitive strategizing to a non-academic arena (ESP an actual game, where winning is the point on a micro level but entertainment is the point on a macro level)(hence alot of ppl bitching about moneyball in the early 00s not cuz they thought it didn't work but cuz it made for boring fucking baseball even by baseball's standards).

C'mon balls are you really trying to lecture me about the asian nerd stereotype. You're really showing your age grandpa if you think that the current version still references Sixteen Candles

Actually as the starter of the LONG DUK DONG thread I'm not even sure what the fuck you're talking about - that stereotype had nothing to do with nerdiness

As someone who's been the butt of more asian nerd jokes than you have ever been, I'll tell you to politely sit down and have a seat and please refrain from posting again in this thread. Thank you, balls.

as someone who's actually deployed asian nerd jokes in my life i'll not so politely recommend the next time you want to post on a subject make it something you were familiar w/ at least an hour before yr post.

i mean i get you're going for an asian mordy thing and it's cute, everybody should have a role model, but mordy actually does the reading at least, there's the potential that he'll post something useful. you're just lex crossed w/ david brooks social scientist.

Bet that's not all you do to gooks, you fucking asshole.

enjoy yr ice cream.

d this dude is way more /u/fedora than an 'asian nerd stereotype'

he does voice work for commercials and tweets about 'haters' i mean cmon

hey hey hey hey hey

why yall gotta be like that

too many cichlids in the tank

龜 otm

I'm with 龜 - given that it's been repeatedly established that nothing "show-ruining" this guy does hasn't been done before (many times), and that he hasn't even been on that many episodes or anything, then it being a "news story" is worth interrogating. Sure yeah, could generally be that stories with a supposed "game theory" hook have a resonance in 2014 that they wouldn't have in 1986 or whatever. But why not allow that the narrative of "guy is intense about a secret strategy, doesn't get that it's all about the game, mannnn" maps directly onto "socially maladjusted nerd" which maps right onto Asian stereotypes coterminous with "not normal, not one of us"...I mean it's not such a stretch.

I was also wondering if maybe some of the media outlets have Jeopardy ties - slow news week plus hype up a co-brand. Sorta like how every third story on cnn.com these days is about movies Netflix is adding or removing.

Has it been established that the tying strategy has been done before many times? Category-hopping is old, apparently, but the tying strategy supposedly comes from the Final Wager blog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7J3Ewo_H9M

pretty awesome interview - looks like he's neither intense nor keeping his strategy a secret at all...recommends blogs, etc

kinda boggling at while not denying dude is asian and a nerd he hardly fits the stereotype of the asian nerd. is the idea that people who make fun of asian nerds are really discriminating about which asian nerds they have a problem with? that if you talk like john cho nobody'd call you Data?

I imagine the show pays both contestants in that case and thus the producers are probably not too happy about this.

Oh yeah, I didn't think about that but it basically means he's giving the other player thousands of dollars. If you look at it that way, wagering the extra dollar is a dick move.

maybe arthur has a backstage deal with the other players to let them tie and then he gets 30% of their cut

the fact that people normally wager an amount that's just above what it takes to beat someone else in final jeopardy, when there is no incentive to knock them out, is basically a hole in the game that should probably be addressed if they actually intended only one person to be able to win

i feel like first we should address the deeper problems with family feud, like the one where none of the rounds matter except for the triple-score round

if you take the first three then you're at least going to sudden death

what makes it worse is that they need to ensure that the triple-score round scores enough to either win (or that it + one sudden death question = 300) so they totally front load it. it's always "top 4 answers" where the top answer is worth like 75. so not only is the top answer usually something very obxious but it only leaves a few difficult ones, meaning the 'steal' team is likely guessing at just one answer. in other words Family Feud can be 'gamed' simply by placing your quickest draw in the 4th postion.

i mean i bet there is a real strong coorelation between the winning team and the team that buzzed in first on triple-score

kinda boggling at while not denying dude is asian and a nerd he hardly fits the stereotype of the asian nerd. is the idea that people who make fun of asian nerds are really discriminating about which asian nerds they have a problem with? that if you talk like john cho nobody'd call you Data?

― da croupier, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 3:44 PM (2 hours ago)

obviously the way he talks and his self-confidence are inconsistent with the "asian nerd" stereotype, this isn't hard to grasp

i feel like first we should address the deeper problems with family feud, like the one where none of the rounds matter except for the triple-score round

― Karl Malone, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 5:26 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah ive always thought how fucked up this is

Actually as the starter of the LONG DUK DONG thread...

Argh people kept saying you weren't you and I thought you'd disappeared! Damn these pranksters.

And to keep on topic, whenever I play any sort of video game version of jeopardy I am always hunting around for the daily double, it kills me when contestants stick to the top down format, or even worse, pick $200 questions when you know time is about to run out and there are thousand dollar questions left. Use your brains, morans.

obviously the way he talks and his self-confidence are inconsistent with the "asian nerd" stereotype, this isn't hard to grasp

no, what's apparently hard to grasp is that when people dare to suggest the undue negative attention someone is getting for daring to google "jeopardy strategies" could stem from racism, pointing out that they don't epitomize the racist stereotype gives an awful lot of credit to racists.

what undue negative attention - there's like four thinkpieces on arthur chu (though that number will rise thank you internet hegemony) and the takes they have have been either this guy is a genius using game theory on jeopardy or this guy is a douchebag using game theory on jeopardy. i've yet to read a this guy is a modern day fu manchu using ancient chinese secrets on jeopardy. btw this split 'genius/douchebag' response is pretty uniform for any person who comes up w/ an innovation (or just decides to use someone elses like arthur chu or billy beane) that pits the individual motivation within the game (you play to win the game) against the group motivation for the game (entertainment, increased efficiency and innovation in the economy, general good times). everybody here has played a game w/ someone who were ultracompetitive and took the game too seriously and ruined the fun of the game. when friends had 'fun' w/ this type w/ monica they weren't indulging in antisemitic stereotypes (as far as i know, maybe i'm wrong, will the real slim mordy plz stand up). if you want to find what a definite racist response to this kind of behavior looks like go back two weeks. personally i love this kind of douchebag behavior. you play to win the game.

The Kotaku bit of this guy goes into how his aspiration is to be a game voice-actor, which is a nice touch.

http://kotaku.com/meet-the-man-who-hacked-jeopardy-1516792430

balls, did you watch that interview with him? how is he being a douchebag? i think you answered your own question ("what undue negative attention?") right there.

obv some people just hate moneyball too, so if you wanna be the guy scoffing that race could possibly play a part fine. Still, "but he speaks so well!" is asinine logic for that claim.

wait do you seriously not understand how someone making something designed to be entertaining less entertaining might come off as a douchebag???

wait do you still think that asian nerds don't get shit unless they resemble long duk dong???

i mean do you seriously think 'great - some asshole is using fucking game theory to win a trivia game' = 'richard sherman is a thug who set his race back 500 years'???

no i didn't make that false equivalency

now you answer my question

wait do you still think that asian nerds don't get shit unless they resemble long duk dong???

― da croupier

i never thought this, do you still beat yr wife?

then why did you say which while not denying dude is asian and a nerd he hardly fits the stereotype of the asian nerd, you might want to revisit sixteen candles and revenge of the nerds again. ?

bummer for the guy in the 2nd kotaku clip (final jeopardy) who writes down "equalivency" and alex can't even figure out what word he was going for

also, if he's genuinely making the show "less entertaining" it's pretty ironic that this is, like, viral news

Man makes watching jeopardy even less fun than usual! (See Clip)

again i've seen three thinkpieces on this dude so far in kotaku, business insider, the fucking new republic and each of them have been the same fluff piece saying 'look at this dude using game theory to win at jeopardy. here's how he does it. some ppl hate it cuz it makes watching the show less entertaining. entertainment ostensibly being the reason they produce and televise the show.' lex brooks said it was impossible ppl might think someone using game theory in nonacademic setting is a douchebag and that the only reason ppl could have for thinking someone using game theory in a nonacademic setting is a douchebag is anti-asian nerd racism. i pointed out that chu is an asian nerd but that i hadn't seen any evidence that ppl found his method of gameplay made watching the game less entertaining cuz he was asian but i had found evidence that ppl found his method of gameplay made watching the game less entertaining cuz this is an extremely common reaction to ppl using game theory in a nonacademic setting or just ppl using nonintuitive strategies to win a game - it feels like cheating to them and it makes the person who does it look like a douchebag. again if someone actually wants to make that argument i'll listen to it, but don't make that argument some david brooks malcolm gladwell method come to the conclusion first then gather evidence and if not enough evidence exists to support yr conclusion disqualify any evidence that contradicts it on the basis of yr emotions. or if you do don't expect me to not call you out as a lazy thinker and fraud. as if it needed calling out.

croup (or lex brooks if he's finished his ice cream) do you actually think arthur chu is some asian nerd stepin fetchit figure?

cuz in the clips i saw he seemed like a normal guy, albeit the type of nerd who goes on jeopardy. i didn't think he set his race back 500 years. i'm curious at why this is obviously wrong.

dude, you're smarter than this.

i pointed out that chu is an asian nerd but that i hadn't seen any evidence that ppl found his method of gameplay made watching the game less entertaining cuz he was asian but i had found evidence that ppl found his method of gameplay made watching the game less entertaining cuz this is an extremely common reaction to ppl using game theory in a nonacademic setting or just ppl using nonintuitive strategies to win a game

you said he didn't fit the "asian nerd" stereotype, as if only those who do suffer from it. again, if you want to assume that race plays no part in someone who studied previous champions and blogs and now gets interviewed on CNN being called "the douchebag using game theory to make the show less entertaining," cool. I don't want to debate whether racism exists. I've made the clear the bit of your post found baffling and ironic.

no i said he didn't fit the asian nerd stereotype to the suggestion that arthur chu is some stepin fetchit figure and that his setting his race back 500 years was the only possible reason he was getting attention and it had nothing to do w/ how he plays the game. again if you want to actually provide anything to back up this argument then do the work and find something but don't tell me that a few 'get a load of how this guy plays jeopardy' fluffpieces are in fact saying 'omg an asian on jeopardy - run!' if only i would put on the glasses. actually take yr argument seriously enough to build it.

Another great post by balls, deep in analysis and thought.

Look, balls, you're an old and I appreciate that - you bring a different perspective to ILX. When somebody starts a poll thread about Billboard in 1987 you're able to do your memorydump where you write 700 words, no line breaks, of what obscure one hit wonders occupied which chart positions at what specific points in time, and how you felt about that then. That's really cool, and you have a capacious memory that not many people are gifted with. It's a valuable contribution to ILX, and all of us here are richer for your sharing.

My experience is that not many people in my generation are familiar with LDD, or Revenge of the Nerds. Not to say that it doesn't stop them from repeating jokes from that era that have passed down through popular culture. But what has been my experience is resentment at Asian kids who "overachieve" and "mess the system up." Can't tell you the number of times I've heard "Why do these Asians fucking study so much, they're ruining it for everyone", often within earshot, before they realize their "Asian friend" is in the room. Maybe you're not too old to remember Amy Chua and the Tiger Mom stuff, maybe not - but there is a general sense is that Asian Americans have 'figured out' the system.

I didn't make any comparison with Richard Sherman, you did. If you're the kind of white guy who only understands racism in the context of the black/white racial dynamic, that's on you. I've started a thread where I try to make sure that a wide variety of experiences of people of color are represented, I've seen you in it so I know you've at least clicked on it. You're welcome to come and have a look.

here's a tip: learn to read. nowhere did i say 'asian nerds got it so easy' or 'asian nerds only catch hell if they're like really ott asian nerds' or 'arthur chu has never caught hell for being an asian nerd, dude can't relate to adrian tomine at all' or 'nobody in america is having a racist reaction to arthur chu'.

sorry xp to croup. i made the comparison to richard sherman to point out what a decidedly racist reaction to someone appearing to be a 'bad sport' or caring about winning too much of exercising poor gamesmanship in a manner not befitting to a gentleman or whatever (which again i could care less about - love arthur chu, love richard sherman, love michael fucking jordan) looks like in 2014. if you want to know what decidedly anti-asian racist entertainment looks like in 2014 i think modern family is airing as we speak. i work and have worked in labs. in the south. i'm very familiar w/ the kinda clueless racist assumption asian nerds have to routinely deal with and i have winced at them and i have probably made them myself (specifically this one guy that used to work w/ me was trying to describe this 'country song' that always came on the radio that he hated and eventually i figured out he was talking about steve miller's 'the joker' and i may have found the whole thing funnier than i would have coming from some white intern), i've had friends that have had 'asian fetishes' which is two kinds of fucked up (arguably three since i've always thought the 'asian girl fetish' is some form of masked vaguely socially acceptable pedophilia w/ it's emphasis on submission and usual accompaniment by some sort of schoolgirl fetish). literally this very afternoon i went to an education class (long story short i'm getting another degree to teach) and listened to white millenials talk about how asians do better than blacks and hispanics in schools cuz of asian culture and asian values that they brought w/ them from 'the orient'. get this literally in the tuesday class we played some ad hoc version of jeopardy to review chapter two. i still don't think finding ppl who use game theory on game shows obnoxious is racist.

fwiw i have no doubt that if i looked at twitter i could find some similarities btw this dude and richard sherman but that seems more depressing than worthwhile so idk, i dont want to go down this route

i did do some thinking on my ride home about optimal final jeopardy wagering so i am happy that we all know who the real nerd is here

i also think the micro/macro distinction balls is making btw the players aim to win and the broader goal for people to enjoy watching or playing the game is interesting - as games become something people watch for entertainment as much as they play its interesting how developers/designers go about making a game less open to exploitation by skillful, competitive players but more interesting to watch/understand. like starcraft II vs dota vs lol and how those games are designed/presented

How did this become the new 'Is This Racist?' thread?

this is ILX

kinda interesting to see Richard Sherman mentioned here. I drew a similarity too, as Chu is another guy who I see being defended all over the internet even though I'm not really sure what he's being defended against. probably just the (internet) circles I'm hanging around in.

yeah most of the references to this guy I see are 'this guy broke jeopardy with game theory!' and not 'omg look at this asshole asian nerd'

tho I am sure if he were an attractive white guy he would be called the billy beane of game shows and have a movie deal in the works

joe morgan everybody

I mean it is rather striking because even if every Jeopardy contestant knows that hopping around categories is the best strategy, very few actually do it, it makes for a disjointed and odd viewing experience, and some of the categories are written thinking that someone's going to go straight through. I watch the show maybe once or twice a week and a guy like this really does stand out.

between the three week break and all the press this has gotten i wonder if someone will try to flip this strategy back on him when they come back

yeah this is interesting to me - other players knowing you are aggressively hunting for the daily doubles means they should be doing the same, but other players knowing you are 'playing for the tie' makes wagering potentially trickier for contestants going into final jeopardy in second place.

I can speak to this: Jeopardy tapes five episodes per day, two days per week - they'll schedule a group of ten contestants from around the country for a given taping day, and use alternates from the LA area if somebody cancels and they need to fill out a day. About the only thing you know entering a taping day is how many games the returning champion has won - the contestants are randomly drawn, and the ones who haven't played yet are waiting in the audience as the day progresses.

So it's likely that Arthur's opponents in later games have seen him play a game or two and know that he plays an unorthodox style (at least the Forrest Bounce part of it, if they're canny enough to recognize a Forrest Bounce - many contestants have no idea how to properly wager in FJ, so the wager-to-tie stuff may not be quite as obvious). Given the lead time of the average Jeopardy episode, which can be as long as four months from taping to airdate, it's impossible for anyone Arthur competes against to know about Arthur-as-Jeopardy-phenomenon. Obviously when they introduce someone as an x-time returning champion it's a little intimidating, but it doesn't imply anything about their style, just their skill level.

I think that people saying that he "broke Jeopardy with game theory" is just dumb. He is applying well known and often used strategies to gain an advantage, I don't see how that constitutes "breaking" Jeopardy. Can't think of any other reason why he would be getting press for this other than that he's Asian. Keep in mind that the person who actually broke Jeopardy with game theory, Roger Craig (a white dude), got about 1/100 of the press, even though he actually won the TOC.

Most people don't do this because the producers strongly encourage you not to. Even though there's nothing they can do about it, I think most people respect the wishes of the show's producers.

To head off any responses, I know that the "play to tie" strategy is not often used, but 90%+ of the articles I've seen have focused solely on his DD hunting.

Also Jeopardy fan culture is SUPER weird - if you look at jboard.tv or even check out #jeopardy on Twitter after an episode's aired, people are sometimes, uh, overly blunt in their assessment of contestants.

The fact that Arthur is willing to wager next to nothing on DD's he doesn't know - that hockey one, where he bets $5 and immediately confesses he doesn't know it - is gonna come off as smug/rub people the wrong way even though it makes perfect sense defensively. (Sports and pop culture stumpers invariably elicit the biggest howls online - they usually aren't the wheelhouse categories of your average contestant, but they're categories with which viewers are very familiar.)

(please forgive my extraneous apostrophe there)

when I find myself able to "run the table" in a sports category while the actual contestants all look absolutely stumped it makes me wonder what I'm doing with my life

I think that people saying that he "broke Jeopardy with game theory" is just dumb. He is applying well known and often used strategies to gain an advantage, I don't see how that constitutes "breaking" Jeopardy. Can't think of any other reason why he would be getting press for this other than that he's Asian. Keep in mind that the person who actually broke Jeopardy with game theory, Roger Craig (a white dude), got about 1/100 of the press, even though he actually won the TOC.

yeah but that was before moneyball/fivethirtyeight etc were super prominent in pop culture

Anyways, the Battle of the Decades tournament this week has been pretty fun.

also these kind of stories have tended to create an ever-worsening feedback loop in the last couple years

yeah but that was before moneyball/fivethirtyeight etc were super prominent in pop culture

Roger Craig was on Jeopardy in 2010 and 2011.

moneyball came out end of 2011 and 538 became a 'thing your mom knows about' in the 2012 election

i just turned on jeopardy hoping to see chu but i guess he's done?

I thought they were doing some kind of tourney and he'll be back at the end of February.

yeah they're doing best of the 80s & 90s for the next few weeks

heh, i did the exact same thing.

Arthur Chu talks to HYPHEN mag about his success:

http://i.imgur.com/A48SNs5.gif

Oh whoops why was that in my copypasta. Anyway: http://hyphenmagazine.com/blog/archive/2014/02/haters-gonna-hater-jeopardy-winner-arthur-chu-bucks-naysayers-and-their-asian-s

I think it makes more sense with the gif

“I pushed myself really hard […] I became a Jeopardy machine, and that’s probably why I acted weird when I was at that taping," says Chu. I told myself that as long as I have confidence that I’m doing the right things and making the right choices […] as long as I did everything I could to win the game and controlled everything that was under my control, I can walk out of there with my head high.”

What sucks in a really evil way is that many viewers of Jeopardy are hating on Arthur and making racist, offensive comments (surprise, surprise!), hurling just about every insulting Asian stereotype at him, most frequently on Twitter. I ask if he thinks it’s because he defies people’s expectations of the “meek and humble Asian,” and he says: “To some degree I think I’m unfortunately living up to a certain Asian stereotype – Asians are supposed to be very nerdy, very competitive in academics and I was raised in that sort of environment. […] They would have reacted differently had it been somebody else. A lot of what they say about me, ‘this guy is creepy,’ ‘this guy is a robot,’ ‘this guy is flat and emotionless’ you can’t deny that it’s there, but I try not to fixate on it. ”

And instead of laying low in the hopes that the hating will eventually go away, Chu asserts himself and responds to the nasty comments on Twitter. In one case, he responded with “The next time you realize you won $37,500, we’ll see how humble you are.” Chu says: “I think the big part of the fact that I can show a different side of myself on Twitter to an extent defies people’s expectations […] it’s easier for me to do it online than on camera. They imagine that I must be this one-dimensional nerd who’s only good at Jeopardy. […] [B]ut you can’t assume that about anybody when you only watch them for 20 minutes on a game show where it’s about winning. […] And I think that [talking back] was a big part of humanizing me to people who were watching Jeopardy and making a different kind of narrative out of it.”

Chu explains very well why he is how he is. It's rare to find a person as intelligent as he is self-aware, and in reality, Chu comes off as a really good guy. “I spent a lot of my life unwilling to take chances and I think that’s a common story for kids who kind of grew up with a certain kind of tiger mom upbringing […]. “ [B]ut at this point in my life, I’ve learned a lot of things will never happen to you if you never take the risk, and failing is not as painful as it seems, the pain you imagine from failure is actually a lot worse than the actual experience itself.”

So I agree with everybody that none of the sites that have published pieces on him have said "look here is this Asian nerd let's laugh at him." But it takes two to tango for something to go viral and I do think that race was a factor in how the internet see this kid even if we all disagree on how much of one it is. To ILX's credit everybody here has been focused purely on the game theory aspect of it and that's great and shame on me for thinking otherwise? Never was my intent to implicate anyone in this thread for having impure motivations, merely wanted people to be aware that there was this other issue. And that's probably the last I'll have to say on it unless I go buy some more ice cream.

I hate to admit that CNN's headline—"Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game"—is precisely correct.

I don't worry about this guy, he seems totally chill and reasonable and smart and funny and nice. I find all of this more interesting than just watching a game of Jeopardy, and frankly I enjoy the hell out of Jeopardy (not the kids' games though, those are crazy boring).

Didn't realize this dude was from my neck of the woods. Here's a local article: http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/01/31/team-arthur-local-trivia-buff-highlights-the-finer-and-controversial-side-of-jeopardy

Chu trails off at this point and mentions that, maybe, after all, the good folks behind Jeopardy! wouldn't want many of those off-camera antics getting out. He references an ill-timed joke that Trebek cracked about a student shooting up his school after his teacher gave him a measly 98-percent on a test.

Hah this is actually a well-worn joke about studious Asians on both sides of the Pacific

I mean, not the school shooting part. But the part about not getting 100%

Arthur Chu is at least the third guy to win a handful of Jeopardy games using the Forrest Bounce just in the last year. One of them was this super smug guy from Georgia who was a big Ric Flair fan. The wager-to-tie biz is way less common.

the thing about this guy's "strategy" is he still needs to be really fast and know basically all the answers right? so it's not like he's gaming the system in a way that undermines the basic game itself

it's a little unsportsmanlike to hunt for daily doubles in a category you know nothing about just to deny them to the other contestants (cf sports) but who cares it's fucking jeopardy

Dang I didn't know balls was on Jeopardy xxp

Interrupting Alex is also bad form.

alex seems like a guy who seethes w/ rage once the cameras stop rolling

been down with the "fuck alex trebek" cause ever since that college jeopardy episode where a girl said she wanted to be a music journalist after seeing Almost Famous and he went off on an "ohhhh a GROUPIE!" tear

oh shit, that happened? Fuck him forever.

there are more than a few anecdotes like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ogS9Ifpjs

there's like a minute of obnoxious fanfare from the poster before the clip

i still like jeopardy, because I play along and get to pretend i'm smart for 22 precious minutes.

lol, the thing that struck me watching clips of jeopardy this week was wow trebek's a bigger dick than i remembered. canadians that come to america and become republicans are the weirdest kind of toothless cranks.

Christ, that's even worse than I imagined it would be. Smug asshole.

xp

lol at trebek's 'and what did he do - say it comeon say it, i got the best followup'

Trebek is frequently a smug asshole, I love his sarcastic sum up of bad stories and subtle takedowns of annoying contestants, but this was in bad taste, ugh.

http://i.imgur.com/NP9MpmD.png

Boom. Damn

Playing for the tie does seem like kind of a dick move though. The benefit is extremely marginal at best, but it's way worse for the show and you deny a slot on the show to one person who flew all the way out to LA for the taping.

if they really have people fly out and tell them to fuck off if there's a tie, i'd say that's the show's problem. not sure how it's "worse for the show" in any way that would matter.

They only pay 2nd place people $2,000 whereas for a tie they pay them the amount they won, usually a lot more. They only tape every two weeks, so whoever was scheduled for the last taping goes home and I don't think it would make too much sense to fly them out 2 weeks later. At the very least they are out the airfare and hotel.

And keep in mind this is only a benefit to the extent that the person you tied is worse than the average Jeopardy contestant, a highly questionable assumption

Playing for the tie does seem like kind of a dick move though. The benefit is extremely marginal at best, but it's way worse for the show and you deny a slot on the show to one person who flew all the way out to LA for the taping.

― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Friday, February 7, 2014 8:43 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

isnt this actually nice for the person who would otherwise be in 2nd place?

And keep in mind this is only a benefit to the extent that the person you tied is worse than the average Jeopardy contestant, a highly questionable assumption

it's not though, and there's a link above that illustrates why
http://thefinalwager.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/The-Final-Wager-Guide-to-Game-Theory-dominance-Slide-11-1024x576.png

basically if 2nd place winds up wagering a small amount banking on leader not getting the question right then you tie there as opposed to losing because you bet $1 more than you really had to. It's pretty dependent on the way 2nd place should wager

Hmm, I guess that makes sense, and I certainly don't fault anybody for trying to maximize their winnings.

I don't go on Jeopardy to make friends.

i dont always go on jeopardy, but when i do, i prefer dos winners

They only pay 2nd place people $2,000 whereas for a tie they pay them the amount they won, usually a lot more. They only tape every two weeks, so whoever was scheduled for the last taping goes home and I don't think it would make too much sense to fly them out 2 weeks later. At the very least they are out the airfare and hotel.

They bring in locally-based contestants and alternates for every taping week to create contingencies against situations like this - when I was on the show we taped on the second day of the taping week, and when they taped the day's first game, they actually made a point of using a non-local contestant who'd been held over from the first day for some reason to make sure everybody got on the show as scheduled.

SOP for returning champions is for Sony to pick up their airfare, plus accommodations at the fabulous Culver City Radisson - Ken Jennings goes into detail about the mechanics of this in his book, as I recall, and it's actually pretty interesting. In the rare event that they had to bring a contestant back to LA for a first game, I'm pretty sure they'd do the same thing. (The $2000/$1000 for second and third are more or less explained as a means of offsetting one's initial travel costs, anyway.)

I read Ken Jennings' book but it was a while ago and I don't remember it too well. Good info, thanks.

even if you don't care about this stuff his book is a really good read, I give it my full endorsement

I am not usually and "I like this guy because he's pissing people off" sorta dude at all but the more people this guy pisses off the better I like him

otm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WmMqi5PTt0

flash didn't rap that, c'mon jep

ken jennings weighs in - http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/02/ken_jennings_on_jeopardy_champion_arthur_chu_and_daily_double_hunting.html

jennings somewhat off in thinking baseball, football, etc embrace innovation - the actual teams might (and in baseball's case there was considerable resistance here even) but there's considerable resistance from the media and the fans to a certain extent. football is pretty much constantly innovating to the extent that sometimes long ago discarded innovations or ideas can momentarily become evolutionarily advantageous again but there are still considerable segments of the fans and the media that want to see the game 'the way it used to be played', this kind of conservatism generally is exhibited more during discussions of concussions or other areas where the game is perceived to be under attack and under threat of some sort of emasculation, it's pretty rare this griping really focuses on actual schemes or specific innovations but you can see it flare up from time to time eg some of the chip kelly stuff earlier this season. another difference is that sports at any level where 'fans' comes into play is generally played by ppl who have played the sport before. jeopardy is generally played by ppl who are learning how to play as they play, to the extent that simply googling 'how to play jeopardy' beforehand can be a considerable advantage. i've never been on jeopardy so i could be way off (maybe jaymc can weigh in) but it seems like there are aspects of actually playing it that couldn't be anticipated by someone playing along at home. the other night i watched an episode of community i had dvred and there was 15 minutes of jeopardy before it and lo and behold it was a chu episode. anyway these ppl were pretty bright clearly (they'd made it on jeopardy) and there was a question that was basically 'what is 5 times 12' and nobody got it so there is clearly something about the game that makes actual thought (as opposed to mere memory) difficult. in this respect this makes what chu is doing more impressive to me now, actually having the presence of mind to execute the strategy and still having to yknow actually answer the questions (which is something that kinda diminishes the innovation in that it's not an innovation that allows a player to overcome a talent deficit against an opponent, it's not a gamechanger) is pretty impressive. strategy also seems like it tends to leave the easier questions on the board so maybe this makes the game 'harder' for ppl playing at home and they resent him for it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgvmTFlCMAA52vl.jpg

lmao

WS the hell out of the girl on the left tho

I really dont get why people dont go nuts on the daily doubles. I thought the point of this game was to win money yall.

haha yeah I kinda always mark someone for a doomed loser when they're sorta behind, or even when they're sorta ahead, and they get a Daily Double and bet a thousand when they could bet two or three. IMO they tend to get the question right, and lose the game. I can totally see making that same mistake in person - it's hard to overcome a lifetime of cautious instincts and remember that you must win the game or it's not real money, and always go big. I mean unless it's a category you just know jack shit about, fucking go for it, the main obstacle on the other questions is not having time to think and come up with it.

Extensive (and kind of fascinating) interview with Arthur Chu:
http://www.avclub.com/article/controversial-jeopardy-champ-arthur-chu-tells-his--201355

Arthur will be back on today for those who have wanted to watch.

thanks, i forgot about this

loving that interview on the avclub

Yeah, I dug this:

I think I mentioned that I have some experience as an actor, and I was like, “I’m going to be playing a role and that role is of an unstoppable Jeopardy! champion.”

You have no idea that Jeopardy! picks the top 5 percent of telegenic appeal from their pool. I was probably one of those super awkward people. My glasses were crooked, and I stammered and stumbled a lot my first audition. And I didn’t get called. I don’t know that that’s why, but I was like, “Next time I’ve got to prepare like it’s a real audition.” Since then, I’d done some more community theater

he won again btw

yup, he blew 'em away

I don't know how the taping schedule went, but I have to wonder if last night's episode was taped after the controversy took off. There was just something a little winking or snarky in the way Alex introduced him by talking about his winning streak before adding "and that's all you need to know about him."

i think they were filmed last week or the week before, so probably. in that AV Club interview he mentions he already taped this week of shows (without saying how far he got)

AVClub interview also points out (iirc) that beyond being a strategy, tieng in Final Jeopardy lets the two tieing players each take home a pile of cash, vs. the typical winner takes all, loser gets a couple of grand system.

It was a great interview all around. For an awkward nerd or whatever, this dude sure knows how to work the press. I wonder if he googled that, too?

doesn't seem like he's that awkward at all, just a dude who knows how to use self-deprecating humor and wants to work his 15 minutes for all they're worth

Well, in the interview he gives lots of reasons why someone might seem awkward, not least that Jeopardy! culls the most photogenic 5% from a pool of the nerdiest nerds in the nation, but also that everyone is exhausted and nervous and not operating at 100%. Also he says he was so focused on his strategy he pretty much ignored about how he may or may not be coming across. He's been pretty consistent: you're there to win. Everything else is a distraction.

Awkward on the show, I should have stressed. Every interview comments on what a nice, normal dude he seems irl, at odds with his Jeopardy! performance.

I mean he's right in that it's similar to how people tend to judge a man's character by what he does on the football field, for instance. Few people look totally comfortable on Jeopardy - well maybe Ken Jennings by his 30th episode

i remembered to watch tonight!!

does he always dominate this dramatically?

spoiler alert dude, cmon

oops sorry!

7pm jeopardy ppl are the worst

Man, it's been forever, but I want to say it comes on at like 4 or 5 here. Maybe that was just in the Oprah era.

Trebek compared him to Ken Jennings today. I can only hope!!! (I don't understand this dude's status as a "Jeopardy villain", but the very idea of a "Jeopardy villain" is entertaining)

aw crap, i fell asleep and forgot. must remember tomorrow

def in favor of game show villainy: "if i win this episode, three audience will not make it home today

your move, trebek"

*audience members
fuck i cant even do my shitty sub-custos shit anymore

He's up by something ridiculous like 10 grand after the first round. His opponents' attempts at beating him with his strategy are pointless and futile.

Hilarious. When he's winning by over double the next opponent, there's basically no point in even doing Final Jeopardy, right? (I believe in this case it was 44K to 6K!)

He kinda wussed out by not going for the one-day record tonight. But then again, I would have too.

I did love how Trebek blatantly egged him on there to go for that bet, since if he lost it, it would've given the others a chance (he would have had to bet about 30K?) to win. But we all knew he would make the smart play

And how the producers apparently corrected Alex during the break to let him know that he was $2000 off. I wonder if they let Chu know that before he laid down his wager.

*$200 off

actually if he had gone for the record and missed he still would have won by a mile.

that's true - he would have had to lose AND the second place winner would have had to bet it all and won (doubling her $6K to $12K, and Chu would go from $44K to about 11K)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/02/28/arthur_chu_jeopardy_s_reigning_champion_talks_to_ken_jennings_about_the.html

yeah caught the end of last night w/ trebek egging him on and chu not taking the bait

Pure badass. I love this guy

The one thing I do think is a negative thing where I wish I hadn’t done it was “cutting off Alex,” which is what I think gets people most riled up—but of course that’s what you’re likely to do when you’re in the zone and already thinking about jumping to the next clue. Problem is Alex kind of chooses the points at which he makes a little comment or joke about a question at semi-random, sparse intervals so it’s hard to predict when he’s going to do it— people accidentally “cut him off” on the show even when they aren’t all hyped-up and intense like I was. It’s something I would be more careful about if I could do it again, though, because I do think interrupting/talking over someone truly is rude in a way that just being intense and abrupt isn’t.

uh oh

Pretty sure that interview happened after his first week of shows, during the break when there were a bunch of tournaments.

And yeah, one of the things that embitters me is that the entire Television Without Pity “brand” is now tarnished for me.

He should consider that a blessing. TWP has been ass for years now.

Chu already seems a lot more "normal" in the second week, in terms of appearance/mannerisms

I hadn't seen the obnoxious anti-Chu tweets featured in the Slate article, but no surprise that people are morons. LOL @ Chu-phoria

Last night was the first time watching Jeopardy since Ken Jennings. I'm all in with this dude.

I learned a new word today: whizbo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2014/02/27/why-were-actually-mad-at-jeopardy-villain-arthur-chu/

Chu’s strategy wasn’t part of some long-brewing master plan, but simply the result of some Googling. He did some searching once he found out he would appear on the show and was inspired by what discovered about Chuck Forrest, a 1985 contestant whose similar Daily Double hunting even earned a phrase to describe his method of play, the “Forrest Bounce.”

How anyone can be mad at this guy is beyond me. 40K BEFORE final jeopardy! This guy is awesome.

after reading that chat with KJ i am even more in the tank for this dude

Yeah, me too. I fucking love that he said this:

So we root for Rocky against black guys who, by all appearances, really are better boxers than he is, because unlike them Rocky isn’t JUST a boxer, he has a girlfriend, he has hopes, he has dreams, etc. This comes up over and over again in movies where the athletic black competitor is set up as the “heel”—look at the black chick in Million Dollar Baby and how much we’re pushed to hate her. Look at all this “Great White Hope” stuff, historically, with Joe Louis.

So is it any surprise that this trope comes into play with Asians? That the Asian character in the movie is the robotic, heartless, genius mastermind who is only pure intellect and whom we’re crying out to be defeated by some white guy who may not be as brainy but has more pluck, more heart, more humanity? It’s not just Flash Gordon vs. Ming the Merciless, it’s stuff like how in the pilot episode of Girls Hannah gets fired in favor of an overachieving Asian girl who’s genuinely better at her job than she is (the Asian girl knows Photoshop and she doesn’t) and we’re supposed to sympathize with Hannah.

i knew i wouldn't like Girls, for some reason

clearly researched all aspects of modern media management: learned that GIRLS references get clicks in online venues. guy is a master

I haven't watched this show in months, but I'm watching today's episode now. Happy to provide spoilers if y'all want.

NO

3PM??? barbaric imo

i was worried for a second

final jeopardy bet lol

If that other guy hadn't tried to bet "cleverly"..

By how much did Ken Jennings lose when he was defeated?

I felt like the other dude was betting to make sure chu kept playing!
I am loving this run

Arthur Chu @arthur_affect

Fun fact: @semretlemma told me after tonight's game "You thought you were doing me a favor by betting to tie but you ruined my life"

What a villain

without knowing what the taping schedule was like, semret's bet was perfectly defensible if he doesn't know that arthur bets to tie so frequently. arthur betting to tie against a contestant as good as semret, however, is kinda crazy

also one of the easiest FJs in awhile - it was extremely possible to predict the answer just based on category alone. how many other modern-day suffixes are there, even?

https://twitter.com/semretlemma/status/439607765141819392

here semret confirms: he'd only seen the last four runaways, he had no idea about the bet to tie thing

kinda sucks as a viewer that he keeps getting interrupted by these stunt tournaments

Do Jeopardy fans archive episodes or make comps of greatest moments or anything? I've been totally out of the habit of the show for a few years now and am kicking myself for not following Chu's streak. Based on the recent posts it sounds like it's made for great TV (despite the early commentators taking the opposite stance).

Agree xp.

Last night was actually kind of intense! Started the second round horribly.

It'll be interesting to see how/if challengers in two weeks try to use his strategy against him.

we should really get arthur chu to post on ILX. guy is pretty brilliant, and a talented cultural observer. i feel like he'd have a lot to add here.