White, middle-class Guardian readers dissing the Guardian for being too white and middle class

By the way, I don't see anything wrong with white, middle-class readers dissing their paper for being too white and middle class.

i don't treat women with anywhere the kind of respect that c-man does.

xpost

I'm really, really bored of the way they treat tabloid subjects, though. Beckham or Jordan to something tabloidy, too tabloidy to report straight in a broadsheet, so the Guardian comes up with some sociological angle to sneak the story in the back door. "Posh does X - what does this say about the modern British woman?" I hate that.

I had no idea Marcello was into sport.

http://userpic.livejournal.com/7567523/634986

Telegraph has better film coverage.

I'd much rather him than a hypocritical right-wing twat like Aaronovitch. At least he doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is, politically.

oh yes, btw how have we managed to get this far without the customary kicking of the petridish?

(yes i know it's gratuitous, but some people can't get enough kicks)

OT fucking M

well that goup of (mainly) white middle class reader think this, let us MAKE THE PAPER IN THEIR IMAGE!!

*this is totally untrue - more like Telegraph and Mirror.

"Ta."

Also George Trefgarne is the singularly most infuriatingly smug columnist in any paper, INCLUDING Aaronovich and all the usual easy Grauniad targets for people who are trying way too hard to be contrarian.

is what I like

nonsense about dead colonels

is what my dad likes

i say agane, the film coverage in the t-graph is grebt.

I don't see that the Guardian's aspirational stuff is really different from the tabloidal obsession with very wealthy pop/soap/footy stars and their lives and 'styles'.

Ever since you posted that post, actually.

I'm believing it. I'm living it. Thank you Ricardo, dreamweaver.

i dont think i've ever known anyone who reads the telegraph.

Look at holiday shows and the prices are incredible and those property shows are silly, its all Tim and Tims partner are looking for fucking huge farmhouse to buy in the country as a retreat from there busy city center flat etc etc, they have £300,000 to spend.

It's aspirational middleclass porn.

The key here - the adverts in the Graun magazine - are they for things priced cheaply or moderately, or expensively? These people do not create impressions or vibes, as it is hard-cash they spend. They therefore advertise becuase it is fruitful to do so because Guardian readers buy it. The adverts then show a real subset of Guardian salary levels.

White, middle-class Guardian comments box posters dissing the Guardian for being too white and middle class: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/travelog/2008/02/skins_blog.html

got this far:

At the minute, I'm working in a restaurant with a bunch of lovely, funny people; writing a play; writing bits for Skins; spending any sort of money I earn on food and skinny jeans...

guy looks like a massive cunt tho xpost

So that's where Louis is

i mean yeah, he is fairly blatantly 'someone's son.' it's not about being white or middle-class -- most middle-class people are not in the media.

^^^not counting HYS or daily mail comments box

he is fairly blatantly 'someone's son

Paul Gogerty's son in fact. This whole thing (comments included) looks like a parody.

^^^Would have thought this, but googling "Max Gogarty" does bring up his IMDB page, where he actually has appeared in Skins. So... I dunno, maybe ban Louis Jagger?

Is this a spoof? I really don't know anymore

I think it's a parody

^would have said this if it wasn't The Guardian

Still a better read than powerblogger Tony Naylor, tho

Hello everyone, I'm the editor of the site. Thanks for all your comments. Just to clear up a couple of points. Yes, well spotted, Max is the son of Paul Gogarty, who has written a few travel pieces for the Guardian over the years, though he isn't a Guardian employee. Max got in touch with us because he writes occasionally for the TV programme Skins. He wants to write an honest account of what teenagers get up to on their travels, and we hope you might be able to give him tips about what to see and do when he's in Thailand and India - how to make the most of it, what to avoid... Plus, if you've seen other travel blogs you'd like to recommend, do send links for us to add. Some of you have mentioned that you'd like to be given the chance to write about your travels. We're always looking for good writers, so feel free to drop us a line at tra✧✧✧@guard✧✧✧.c✧.u✧

We're always looking for good writers, so feel free to drop us a line
We're always looking for good writers, so feel free to drop us a line
We're always looking for good writers, so feel free to drop us a line
We're always looking for good writers, so feel free to drop us a line
We're always looking for good writers, so feel free to drop us a line

Actually this line is even better...

Max got in touch with us because he writes occasionally for the TV programme Skins

It does seem sort of odd to run a satirical piece like this where the writer doesn't do or say anything especially unusual, though

6-year old article by Paul Gogarty, taking his 13 year old son on holiday:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2002/apr/06/bangkok.thailand.familyholidays

Everything he does and says is unusual to me (xp)

http://www.evening-classes.org/paulg.html

Yeah me too but it doesn't preclude me from knowing that a shit ton of people spend their free time doing stuff exactly like this

of course, there are people who like 'skins', but it always seemed to be about kids like this to me! i actually kind of know a guy like this (lives in same area, dad similarly well-connected), who turned away from it, and 'skins' reminded me more of him than anyone.

oh, the lols keep on coming...

Hi there,

I'm the Producer on Skins and as such, have had the great fortune to work with Max. A friend informed me earlier today that he was getting a bit of stick on here and I feel the balance needs redressing. Max is a special guy, and has been co-writing the scripts for some time now. We realised pretty early on that he had quite a talent for writing, and as such have had no fear in putting him into a position of responsibility at such a young age. Having spoken to him about his travel plans, he is extraordinarily excited about exploring both India and himself, and given that he has an incredible talent for turning thoughts into written work, I imagine it will be a fantastic blog to follow.

He has an explorative sense of being, and an inquisitive mind, and forgetting his rather shoddy choice of jeans, I have no doubt he will have a good time, and share that with you all appropriately. His dad worked very hard for him to get into journalism, and all this inverted snobbery seems pretty unfair consequently.

Anyway, enjoy the blog,

Simon.

He has an explorative sense of being

His dad worked very hard for him to get into journalism

LMAO

Surely this has to be a joke!?

His dad worked very hard for him to get into journalism

Uh?

Now that I would tag as a parody

xpost mainly cos of that line

He has an explorative sense of being
His dad worked very hard for him to get into journalism
He has an explorative sense of being
His dad worked very hard for him to get into journalism
He has an explorative sense of being
His dad worked very hard for him to get into journalism
He has an explorative sense of being
His dad worked very hard for him to get into journalism

I hear Charles worked hard for his sons to get into the monarchy

exploring both India and himself

xxxx

"I didn't get where I am today without my dad working very hard for me"

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_football/FERGUSON_Darr_19920822_SF_R.jpg

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_football/DALGLISH_Paul_19981031_NF_R.jpg

http://www.puremusic.com/67assets/frankjunior1.jpg

http://www.tribulation.com/images/KingJesus.jpg

I agree re. wind-up, this has to be a Richard Geefe type thing.

the producer on the blog must be a wind-up, but not the original post.

the guardian is a windup, has been for years

coming closer every day:

http://libcom.org/files/french-rev.jpg

According to the comments there were two posts from a 'producer' the first from someone called Chris has disappeared. There is a Chris who produces Skins but not a Simon...

I think I'm spending too much time on this...

This is what I'm getting at though! People generally parody something by giving it an unusual slant, not by describing a completely mundane sequence of events in a mundane way

xpost amirite

lock internet

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=577395717&hiq=gogarty%2Cmax

^^^Rock your body mic check 1,2

Doesn't really matter if its a spoof, why is it a surprise to see some sloane writing about a holiday in a newspaper?

Skins is pretty well received so maybe this 19yr old's contributions to it are actually good. Dunno cos don't watch it.

In a supposedly SOCIALIST newspaper (xp)

(yes I know the Grauniad has been right wing keech for longer than I've been alive but even so)

Google sez he only wrote part of one of the "web only" episodes

xp

come on, even 'supposedly socialist' must be decades ago for it now?

I'm not even sure what skinny jeans are. Jeans for people with skinny legs? What about skinny lattes? /clarkson

Max got in touch with us because he writes occasionally for the TV programme Skins

Paul Gogarty was the drummer for Gay Dad.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/travelog/Skinsb.jpg
I curiously attracted to his t-shirt.

Why is it called skinsblog and not...er...maxblog ro something?

Isn't the whole point of the 2nd section of newspapers is to read about rich people drinking wine and going on holiday, so you'll think you can afford to do the same?

Heard "To Earth With Love" on Radcliffe the other night. Was surprised at how good it sounded, not having purposely heard it for about a decade.

Good single, that.

liz's first response here is killing me

Isn't the whole point of the 2nd section of newspapers is to read about rich people drinking wine and going on holiday, so you'll think you can afford to do the same?

-- Filey Camp, Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:19 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

the guardian does still publish thoughtful stuff in its second section, stuff too boring to zing on ilx -- but yeah obviously it's generally run by sloanes.

wish the guardian would introduce HYS style comment recommendation (altho HYS needs youtube style thumbs up/downs itself)

Isn't the whole point of the 2nd section of newspapers is to read about rich people drinking wine and going on holiday, so you'll think you can afford to do the same?

Does anyone actually read those bits?

Please do. The British are too busy wringing their hands and fretting about whether their society is fair enough to do anything like this. It's a pity, because you didn't used to be like this.

United Statesian, United States

Recommended by 5 people

hey tombot haven't you got better things to do

We're all reading it today it seems!

I switched to The Independant a few months ago.

That's shit as well.

It's London Lite or nothing for me

Why would anyone read a rightwing paper?

or, if you prefer, why would anyone read a conservative paper?

there aren't any left-wing ones -- zing

uh, how is that a zing?

i like to only hear one point of view

Oh boy, he did the web-only episode with Foals in. If I can tie the slightly baffling tipped-ness of Foals into this exciting cliques and nepotism scandal it will make my year. Well, my Thursday afternoon.

(if anyone is even still talking about young Max in the time it took me to look at imdb and log in to ILX)

xp
To keep my blood pressure from dipping dangerously low.

if you have good reading comprehension skills, it's possible to get more out of a paper you disagree with than one written by people like max grogarty.

xposts

there was a poll the other week for right-wing columnists yeah? but how did people know who they were??

You slags are all just jealous you're sitting around doing jack shit and moaning about it while this kid lives it up. He might be a donut and have all the writing skill of Captain Birdseye, but he's honest and isn't a cynical burnout like most of you haters.

With friends like that...

agreed, but i don't understand where you are drawing the line between them

unless....you meant we (you? i? someone?) here agrees with people who write like max greogartyy

I saw a review of this the other day and thought of Tracer Hand...

I like Skins. I think it's the Brizzol accents.

you like embrace!

omg @ jerry's link

The real flaw in this blog plan is that they didn't team the kid up with Patrick Bateman.

she was on the radio last night talking about economics HAW xpost

what did she say?

she liked them. she thought they were good.

it was about that hemlines = state of the economy jazz

CONTROVERSIAL OPINION - Every single person on this thread can afford to drink wine and go on holiday.

ha!

OMG! Wine! Holidays! Bourgeousie!

hark at birthday boy here

some of the blog comments are kinda funny and interesting, not so much for what's being said but the why and how.

What Matt forgets is that Blossom Wine is only a fiver.

i haven't been on holiday since 2005. this isn't really a money thing, more a being mental thing.

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:28 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Link

I MIGHT BE BULLSHITTING THERE?!?!

Rawham

Comment No. 941072
February 14 13:32

Watch out for Snakes On A Plane!!
Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.

HAW

YES!

you can't "YES!" your own posts dom!

i hope that's real and not an imminent YAAAAH TRICK YAAAAH

Every single person on this thread can afford to drink wine and go on holiday.

http://www.portadownnews.com/buckfast.jpg

http://www.buckie-town.co.uk/images/Multiview%20Postcard%20Buckie.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YPF2BFVWL._SS500_.jpg

Buckfast! You rich bastard.

"The Bucky and Buckie all-in package is proving especially popular with gap-year teens as a prelude to starting jobs their fathers have worked hard for them to get"

I am out as being middle class, I have drank Buckfast and been on holiday in Buckie

Soooo if I buy that guide, Keith will come on vacation with me? Rock on!

I drink wine (quite a bit of wine, truth be told) but can't really afford to go on holiday and have only ever been on holiday about five or six times in my life, and never for more than 4 days at a time.

Also, my dad worked very hard in the tourism, caravan sales, and ball clay industries to get me a job at a university. My mum worked just as hard in the teaching kids with special needs industry.

I'm middle-class but the son of the refugee and only half white so I feel I can make fun of the white middle-class on a technicality.

if you feel you have to justify yourself you are certainly middle class

this guy isn't just middle-class -- by definition newspaper writers (RIP journalism) are middle-class -- he's a fucking media-class dbag is the thing.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/travelog/2008/02/editors_response_to_yesterdays.html

One thing that came out of yesterday's posts was that you want to hear a lot more from real people rather than journalists, so I'm going to be putting up a lot more readers' recommendations and writing.

uhhhh no, i didn't really get this at all! this guy is no journalist in the first place. of course it's possible for the son of someone well-connected to be talented too, but the guardian does seem to rely on a pretty shallow pool of well-connected people who get the reference to 'the 134 bus'. cf its employment of the editor's daughter.

Since when has journalism ever been about being talented? Anyone with a university education has the skills to turn out decent copy.

^^^CHALLENGING OPINION

Since when has journalism ever been about being talented? Anyone with a university education has the skills to turn out decent copy.

-- Zelda Zonk, Friday, February 15, 2008 12:29 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

lol at the idea you need a university education to be a journalist. for most newspaper writing i don't think you do need 'talent' in that kind of a way, but for first-person comment pieces and for 'what i'm doing on my holidays', yes maybe you do, a little bit. i don't understand the 'he's only 19' defence. do other 19-year-olds dig on his steez?

As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a churnalist...

I didn't say you need a university education to be a journalist. I just said that anyone who had one could be expected to turn out publishable copy. And a hell of a lot of other people besides, of course.

if the stats in the article i linked to in the thread i linked to right there are true, the question is, if newspapers can't afford people who are able to check facts and employ a critical intelligence toward press releases, how do they afford all the dead wood that fills out the softer sections of the paper (which itself could do with greater, uh, stringency).*

*still butthurt at mark lawson's insane 'omg juno! -- golden age of cinema' piece.

I've been surprised by the attention this blog entry got - not least from certain messageboards and forums -

Who can he mean?

a link to the original piece was put up on h0lym0ly and p0pb1tch, so i guess it wuz them.

The comments to the Editor's Response are kinda great, considering

Blog apparently now cancelled in floods of tears, but presumably he'll manage to knock up an article about how people on Internet forums are all jealous basement-dwelling scumbags within the next six months

also dude's 'comprehensive' school is one of *those* comprehensive schools. not to be frowned on, but it's misleading to use it as an index of the guy's normalness.

what, the "OK, fair enough, it's still crap though!" ones?

xpost really? xpost again

SORT IT

Max has set his facebook to private as well :(

MAX GOGARTY'S MANIFESTO TO REPAIR BROKEN BRITAIN

hahaha after that defense the editor mounted, they cancelled it after all?? jesus

gimme 5

the jagger comparisons are otm, only this guy had a national newspaper rather than a thread about mansun.

google tells me he's an overnight internet phenomenon

haha i didn't realize this had already been posted!

So, Editor in "I defend my decision to employ him, it was the right decision, as is my decision to sack him right now"

Sounds like the kind of cuntspacker you'd see on Richard and Judy. Talking a load of cock.

Seriously, Max Google's best line of defence would have been to write a good article! And not to go off crying a bit over some message board postings.

Right, children?

well it looks like guy decided himself, rather than editor. that or they had 'a conversation'.

tbh, if i were going on a gap year holiday, i wouldn't want to blog it, or read responses to the blog, or to maintain a facebook account, or even email people. so maybe it'll work out for him in the end.

wow holy moly is even meaner than the LBZC!

Guardian Puzzle page:

Go from "Max Gogarty" to "Pete Doherty" in 4 moves or less...

the jagger comparisons are otm, only this guy had a national newspaper rather than a thread about mansun.

erm, as it was all for a dare there was no blogging

"Resigning" is this millennium's "you're sacked"...

i mean in terms of gauche, ott self-revelation followed by shock-at-the-meanies's-meanness trajectory.

Right everyone, back on Operation Petridish Resignation detail quicksnap...

tbh, if i were going on a gap year holiday, i wouldn't want to blog it, or read responses to the blog, or to maintain a facebook account, or even email people. so maybe it'll work out for him in the end.

otm.

Some wag added him to the Wikipedia page on 'nepotism' alongisde Kim Jong-Il and George W Bush.

Awesome!

self haters.

insider view:

http://www.newstatesman.com/200201280039

interesting

One characteristic of the paper's editorial line that outside observers sometimes miss is its unswerving enthusiasm for the US, and here it happily joins forces with Tony Blair.

is this right? i guess it's the usual 'anti-Bush not anti-American' sentiment

twas written in 2002! so maybe things have changed.

on the other hand, the writer stood as an MP in 1966 on an anti-vietnam war ticket (or something) -- the wilson labour government had a tiny majority so this was Kind Of A Big Deal -- which i guess makes him pretty anti-american, seeing as we weren't actually in vietnam.

i obviously read the guardian and y'know, it's pretty good. the observer is another story, though. piecing it together, there was a bad situation there when the last editor, roger alton, got made editor in 1998, leaving them without quality staff at the top. and it's this that explains them being the most craven blairistas in the run-up to the iraq war.

I prefer the indie, has a bit more bite. The "OMG, enviroment into the shitbin" scare stories are always worth a read.

the lol irony is that even in 2002 that was a weird article for the new statesman to publish -- they wouldn't do it now. too busy employing that tory MP's son to write about fashion (true story). all those old geezers at the gay hussar are probably dead; certainly despised by the young'uns. embarrassing for them.

i don't usually read the indie, but i was impressed they grew a pair over the sharia law thing.

Follow-up to the Max story.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/rafael_behr/2008/02/backpackers_bullies_and_intern.html

Amongst the many lols...

Things got out of hand. Within hours, there was a paragraph on Gogarty in the Wikipedia entry on "nepotism", ranking it equivalent as an abuse of power to Saddam Hussein's employment of his son to run Iraq's secret police, a loss of perspective so grotesque I hope it was satire, but can't be sure.

im still trying to figure out if i feel bad for this dude. in any event im sad that he ditched the blog i was looking forward to the forthcoming lulz. RIP

I'm still unsure as to why a national newspaper site needs to have blogs, except because blogging is, like, what everyone's doing now.

tbh, if i were going on a gap year holiday, i wouldn't want to blog it, or read responses to the blog, or to maintain a facebook account, or even email people. so maybe it'll work out for him in the end.

Surely the point of being a teenager now is that you put everything you ever do in your entire life up on the web? It still amazes me when I see kids with digital cameras on the train, just how successful they've become at perfecting their Myspace faces.

i mean the kid writes for a tv show (seems to be a fairly well-known one?) so obv he is interested in working in "media" so i'm sure he jumped at the chance to add "guardian blogger" to his resume and i don't really blame him for that

the fact that no one saw this coming-- esp with "he spends his money on booze and skinny jeans" as a subhead-- is the most baffling part of it all

The original article was woeful but no worse than a million other blogs out there. And I don't care if people want to write crap and put it out there but if The Guardian chooses to do it and then pays someone for it they've got to have the foresight to maybe at least edit the thing. From the photo down it looked like a joke and was treated thus by the comments.

Its disappointing that this excuse for a newspaper has got yet another attack of sensitive rich boy syndrome. If this guy wants to have his column and a nice holiday, fine, but if he wants to be in the public domain, and get paid for it, then he's got to learn that not everyone is going to applaud him. This is embarrassing for him, another case of liberal rich not getting it when people don't applaud their very existence. first up against the wall, frankly

This column might conceivably have been interesting if he'd spent a year in Derry, Barnsley or Minsk. at a push

OTM.

And by the way, Rafael, not everybody wants your job, particularly if it turns you into a prissy hysteric.

ahahaha

http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/20071104/14/3574938022-soccer-coca-cola-football-league-championship-norwich-city-v-ipswich.jpg

Is Rafael Behr related to Dani Behr?

The Guardian don't know when to stop digging on this one.

I hope it was satire, but can't be sure.

butthurt much? it's a bit rich for the guardian to introduce all these "blogs", with comment boxes, etc., and then whine when the inevitable happens, i.e. the comment boxes are filled up by frustrated writers. seriously, what do they expect?

by bringing in blogs they've pulled back the curtain an inch too far, broken the fourth wall, etc.

Surely the point of being a teenager now is that you put everything you ever do in your entire life up on the web? It still amazes me when I see kids with digital cameras on the train, just how successful they've become at perfecting their Myspace faces.

-- Matt DC, Monday, 18 February 2008 10:13 (39 minutes ago) Link

this is why tombot is right and we're all doomed. i think you're right, obv, i'm just saying it seems (to me) to defeat the point of gap year hols. maybe da yoot have given up on the pretence that they're doing it to e'xperience other cultures' and whatnot, and are just out for the extended ibiza experience.

I don't think the Rafael Behr piece is that whiney, it seems to be making the same point we are - that it's all very well lauding the web for being this huge intellectual free market zipping with opinions and so forth until you get burned because, well, it's full of nutters.

Perhaps you are imagining a scene from China's Cultural Revolution - a student accused of bourgeois tendencies, head bowed, harangued by classmates. Or perhaps, if you were reading the Guardian's travel site last week, you have a picture in your mind of Max Gogarty, a 19-year-old aspiring writer who posted a blog about his gap-year plans

might not be whiney, but knows his way round a bit of hyperbole

so grotesque I hoped it was satire, I suppose I'll be torn apart for even saying this etc, sounds pretty whiny

My favourite bit of Behr hyperbole was when he compared kids playing music on buses to the state terror of the KGB last year: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2057538,00.html

its whiney

Haha okay that one really *is* whiney and also an exaggeration so grotesque I hope it is satire but considering we're on the forum where some of the most vociferous critics of the Graun's rubbish moments have penned reviews comparing half-arsed Timbaland productions to the Rwandan genocide maybe we should just admit we all like a bit of exaggeration from time to time.

superb bit of research by one of the commenters on that mrafael behr piece, who dug this up:

"There are some very good blogs (as compilations and online journals or weblogs have become know). They demonstrate what columnists have known for years, that sitting at the computer, stroking the cat, thinking big thoughts and writing them down is a pleasure. To be paid to do so is a privilege, ideally one enjoyed by those who have something exclusive to share, political insiders, for example. Rightly or wrongly, most old media pundits do not see themselves as the peers of readers.

Bloggers, on the other hand, are subject to constant peer review. The speed and brutal effectiveness with which they are held to account is already crossing over into the mainstream. Ultimately, it will change the way political and cultural debate is conducted."

Rafael Behr, Feb 27th, 2005

In that piece about KGB kids or whoever, how interesting that Behr should quote from writings by Guardian reviewer Steven Poole and occasional Guardian contributor Jonathan Franzen.

Jonathan Franzen is actually his mum.

I don't know why The Guardian has canned the blog. It would have been a must read for me, if only for the comments.

I expect Max canned it himself. Already, for years to come prospective employers are going to google him up only to find him excoriated on hundreds of blogs, forums and suchlike...

not really a problem for a budding journalist, surely?

You may have a point. Still, I wouldn't want my name coming top any time someone put "nepotism" into Google!

3 out the top 10 results for nepotism on google are guardian pages

a lot of people are criticizing this guy's yanked blog for being written poorly, but actually it was very well-written by the standards of self-congratulatory, breezy yet intimate, magazine-style columnizing that is everywhere these days. it was thoroughly loathesome but it was slick.

hitler.jpeg

damning with faint praise there Tracer

you have to respect the efficiency of those panzers

It's more praising with faint damnation.

i'm totally stealing that :-)

Amazingly The Guardian is still beating itself up about this. This from yesterday...
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/inside/2008/02/the_last_post.html

Someone please post "YAHHH TRICK YAHHH" as a comment there.

a lot of people are criticizing this guy's yanked blog for being written poorly, but actually it was very well-written by the standards of self-congratulatory, breezy yet intimate, magazine-style columnizing that is everywhere these days. it was thoroughly loathesome but it was slick.

Give him his own column! Anyone up for startin' a Bring Back Max campaign?

I'd rather they gave Geir a column.

They should give Jagger a column to write about his "finals".

It'd be like Skins... ON DRUGS!!!!!!!

With an even shittier soundtrack

I watched approximately 60 seconds of the first episode of the new series of Skins.

They were in this church and doing an abstract dance routine.

Mr Max - I knew Dennis Potter. Dennis Potter was a friend of mine.

Mr Max - you're no Dennis Potter.

http://www.scratch-music.com/images/GEFR-17123-1.jpg

Banned from 6Music: "Women don't like rap" quipped Lesley Douglas.

Dudes on that thread saying 'put the Football link back' = completely OTM.

don't know why we're all fussed over this little guy, when the very same newspaper still employs this person

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/19/labour.economy

And this person:

http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2258116,00.html

That Toynbee piece is astonishingly incoherent, it begins with typical head-in-sand 'underlying fundamentals' party line, then moves into presumably tokenistic criticism of Labour for allowing, nay encouraging, the financial conditions that helped put the economy into such a precarious position, and then moves to saying 'yes but if it all goes tits-up it isn't Brown's fault'. I mean, what?

You want to know how I store my records? I put the ones next to each other that I think would be friends. I suppose you could call that emotional; I call it womanly.

I just had to swallow back a bit of sick. :(

Coincidentally it's the same criteria I use when deciding which columnists not to read

As I said on the equivalent thread on ILM, thirty years plus after Penny Valentine, Val Wilmer, Caroline Coon, Julie Burchill and suchlike I think we should have long since passed this stage.

Nick Hornby as one-man Exocet/Taliban of music writing: discuss.

No thanks.

You see, even Kuyt has a redeeming factor.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/frank_fisher/2008/02/setting_the_controls_to_max.html

two thoughs:

let. go.

HE DID A SWEAR

Where are these "deluded suicide cults"?

as opposed to the well-informed suicide cults.

i actually agree with a lot of what dude is saying, ie that the media is run by a shaodwy cabal of know-nuffinks, but ya know tldr, lol zing internet mentalists, etc.

My theory is that the media is run by Kate Nash.

The Guardian should set up their own suicide cult, give Max something to do instead of the blog

I think Max should just start his own blog, it'd get fuckloads of hits.

He should fuck Belle Du Jour, it'd be a meeting of the literary minds.

Dunno where he'd meet her though, considering she's definitely a prostitute and not some bored former NME journo with a ravishment fetish.

What is this, 2003?

I'm pining for a simpler time, man.

Has there actually _been_ a famous new blogger in the past four years?

I feel sorry for Max. The fact that the Guardian couldn't handle criticism and decided to censor him, while lackey Toynbee remains in employment

Hold your nose and vote for Gogarty

Has there actually _been_ a famous new blogger in the past four years?

-- Dom Passantino, Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:44 AM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

fluxblog_zing.

(i got a hangover, this is the best i can do.)

^Was thinking of the endless stream of gay CATTINESS4U US celeb bloggers, but if I actually think about WHATTHEBUCK or that Tyler Durden dude, a little bit of sick appears in my mouth

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/literary/full/O.G.JPG

^Was thinking of the endless stream of gay CATTINESS4U US celeb bloggers, but if I actually think about WHATTHEBUCK or that Tyler Durden dude, a little bit of sick appears in my mouth

-- Dom Passantino, Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:47 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

eh? /90s man

o shi i know, like that paris hilton fag hag dude, rite.

(don't fluff this one dom it's right there)

http://www.youtube.com/user/WHATTHEBUCKSHOW

^^^This guy.

Most important skills for journalism:

a) voice like an airhorn
b) able to pull comedy "I mean, c'mon guyz!" face
c) violent hatred of women disguised as pro-faghag zing culture

you're in

My voice isn't high pitched, it just goes that way when I'm excited. Us Sicilians man, we're passionate people.

Us Sicilians man, we're passionate people.

Cross with Northampton and... oy!

http://us.ent1.yimg.com/images.launch.yahoo.com/000/026/648/26648012.jpg

Yes I know they were from Nottingham but it was either that or Bauhaus.

"Billy, Don't Be a Blogger"

"Billy, don't be a blogger, don't be a fool with your life
Billy, don't be a blogger, come back and make me your wife
And as Billy started to go she said keep your pretty head low
Billy, don't go backpacking in India and Thailand and write a weekly blog in the Guardian, come back to me"

"I heard she threw the paper away."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/jan/19/firsttimebuyers.mortgages

The Guardian. Extolling the virtues of subprime loans. in 2008!

Tell me what is good about this newspaper again?

laura barton's 'hail hail rock 'n' roll' feature; petridish's beef with dingbod; its wide-eyed approach to r'n'b.

You're not even trying now!

When the editor guest stars on ILM.

Because after all the core Grauniad readership does consist of newly qualified 27-year-old solicitors.

It's better than all the rest.

Which tells you something about newspapers in the UK.

Laxalt - do you go around searching for these things? If so, why?

i've got a wild guess it's because he's interested in the subject. who knows, though??? itsmystery.jpg

Do those mortgages technically count as subprime? I don't actually know.

first-time buyer, 100% loan, excited about her new sofa arriving.. probably

I mean, why does he bother reading the Guardian if it winds him up so much? I can hearlt recommend not reading stuff you know will increase yr blood pressure. In the last week I've stopped reading the express, the mail, the telgraph, the sun and bbc hys and cancelled out local rag The sun is shining, people are more friendly, the flowers are in bloom...

outr

Ned it's called keeping yourself aware of the debate.

"Excited about new sofa arriving" is one of the most depressing sentences in the English language. Is this what we are supposed to be looking forward to?

Right-wing newspapers should be required reading for any self-respecting lefty.

Did you miss the ILX sofa buying party? Dude it's a great sofa. Can't wait to see it in place.

Is it from DFS?

(n.b.: it is not Stuart Maconie doing the voiceover)

<insert trucker hat gag here>

The Grauniad is sort of the Yorkie bar of newspapers.

LOS CAMPESINOS - NOT FIT FOR GIRLS!

Ned it's called keeping yourself aware of the debate.

Right-wing newspapers should be required reading for any self-respecting lefty.

-- Matt DC, Friday, 22 February 2008 11:11 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

Oh come off it. I used to think this but now, no. I haven't read a new idea or insight in a right wing newspaper for, well, years. Talk about an monolithic ideology. You can totally predict the express/mail/sun view on anything. It's just not worth the time.

This is a thread about The Guardian. I found those two article in The Guardian.

The Grogarty business is merely lifestyle fluff, rich boy goes on holiday, keeps diary. The Guardians problem is that it was too sensitive to criticism and pulled it, complaining, at length, about censorship, even though it was the newspapers that effectively censored itself

The Toynbee article, and all Toynbee articles, and the subprime ramping article, are par for the course for this rightwing newspaper supporting this rightwing government.

Whether my blood is boiling or not is of no consequence, the fact of the matter is, we've had 11 years of a Labour Government, and the Guardian has made excuses for it all along the way. Is it of no interest at all that this is supposedly a left wing newspaper writing about a supposedly left wing party? That Toynbee has churned this guff out for years on end?

This newspaper wants us to read about rich people going on holiday, and about how the government has done a good job over the last decade (and will get round to that pesky inequality stuff once they've sorted everything else out), and then has the temerity to cry foul when people criticise it

We don't have a daily mail thread of any length here, this boards rightwing mouthpiece of choice is the guardian, therefore articles about the guardian go here, flowers in bloom or no flowers in bloom

or, to put it another way

Animal Farm

And we get annoyed that its frightened of R&B!

Oh come off it. I used to think this but now, no. I haven't read a new idea or insight in a right wing newspaper for, well, years. Talk about an monolithic ideology. You can totally predict the express/mail/sun view on anything. It's just not worth the time.

Not all right-wing media is about moronic populism. There's The Telegraph, which these days is basically The Guardian for right-wing people. Economically, there's The Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal etc. There's The Economist, which is often interesting and pretty good for keeping tabs on what the more intellectual end of the right-wing is thinking.

How on earth can the Guardian not be considered right wing?

or, if you prefer, 'conservative', whatever

Has anyone noticed how many murderers have been convicted in recent weeks, where the grieving relatives have called for the Death penalty, specifically for their cases? And how the media is running with this right now?

where the grieving relatives have called for the Death penalty

Um, don't they tend to do that quite a lot generally? What with all the grief and the anger and all

Keywords: Suffolk, fitted, up

lolz at full page analysis of media contributing to Brigend suicides on page three of the Grauniad the other day

I don't know, the Guardian is trying to be all things to all people at the moment, publishing something like this one day and an expensive piece by Simon Jenkins or Max Hastings the next. It is self-consciously trying to be 'centrist' and anything that does that will be lambasted by left and right alike, a bit like New Labour in the 90s lol.

The Guardian's Facebook profile would probably read 'Political Views: Moderate' these days but as 'moderate' or 'centrist' pretty much means "I'm happy with the status quo really" can we assume that's an inherently conservative position?

(I think the answer to that question is 'yes' by the way)

In what way is the Labour government "supposedly left wing" though? Who is making that supposition?

Matt DC I surely don't know. I think the Toynbees of the world might have an argument (though I'd disagree with it) that the record inequalities in one of the richest countries in the world (more disparity than under Thatcher) could be fixed by tweaks and adjustments. But Labour aren't even offering THAT!

where the grieving relatives have called for the Death penalty

Um, don't they tend to do that quite a lot generally? What with all the grief and the anger and all

-- DJ Mencap, Friday, 22 February 2008 12:56 (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Yes they do, but now it's being made a feature of, so it's almost calling for the death penalty, specifically for gangs of youths, prostitute murderers, and now that guy who killed the model who's alibi was "noo I only had sex with her dead body"...

In what way is the Labour government "supposedly left wing" though? Who is making that supposition?

well..not really over the last 15 years obviously (and, not really at any point when they've actually been in power - unless you count Atlee), but they are nominally at least, supposed to be the party on the left. granted, party on the left and left wing party are by no means the same thing, but they're not really even the former

Views: Moderate="fuck you mate, i'm doing ok"

"some of my best friends are/wouldn't want to live next door to"

Yes they do, but now it's being made a feature of, so it's almost calling for the death penalty, specifically for gangs of youths, prostitute murderers, and now that guy who killed the model who's alibi was "noo I only had sex with her dead body"...

yes it's quite noticeable

also: that LOLdefence didn't work

From "Power In The Darkness" by Tom Robinson, thirty years old but it could have been written yesterday:

"Freedom from the reds and the blacks and the criminals
Prostitutes, pansies and punks
Football hooligans, juvenile delinquents
Lesbians and left wing scum
Freedom from the niggers and the Pakis and the unions
Freedom from the gypsies and the Jews
Freedom from leftwing, layabouts and liberals
Freedom from the likes of YOU!"

these days but as 'moderate' or 'centrist' pretty much means "I'm happy with the status quo really"

i am facebook 'moderate' but very unhappy with status quo

As opposed to "The winter of '79'" which was written in 1977..

I'd been working on and off
A pint of beer was still ten bob
My brand new Bonneville got ripped off
I more or less give up trying
They stopped the Social in the spring
And quite a few communists got run in
And National Service come back in
In the winter of '79
When Marco's caff went up in flames
The Vambo boys took the blame
The SAS come and took our names
In the winter of '79

It was us poor bastards took the chop
When the tubes gone up and the buses stopped
The top people still come out on top
The government never resigned
The Carib Club got petrol bombed
The National Front was getting awful strong
They done in Dave and Dagenham Ron
In the winter of '79
When all the gay geezers got put inside

And coloured kids was getting crucified
A few fought back and a few folks died
In the winter of '79

Yes a few of us fought
And a few of us died
In the winter of '79

He was right about the beer tho.

Don't suppose we'll see any of that reflected in top BBC cop show Ashes To Ashes (seeing as most of it still applied in '81).

i saw that show, it was embarrassing

And we get annoyed that its frightened of R&B!

-- laxalt, Friday, February 22, 2008 12:41 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

uh uh, it's head-over-heels for r'n'b nowadays.

i saw that show, it was embarrassing

-- Tracer Hand, 22 February 2008 15:13 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

not as embarrassing as hysterical lefty poetry, surely?

Not as embarrassing as the queues of thrusting Thatcherkids which will soon be forming outside branches of Cash Converters nationwide.

uh uh, it's head-over-heels for r'n'b nowadays.

Oh!

Ok, I wasn't aware of that

thatcherkids i guess means people born after 4 may 1979, i.e. who couldn't have voted till 4 may 1997, i.e. not till 2001.

so tbh looking around for people to blame, it's gotta be the generation that now holds political power. ie the nihilist post-punker/cosseted boomer rainbow alliance.

Interesting definition of 'power' there.

Which is Gordon Brown? Which is Guy Hands?

yah rly -- purchasing power. also the "option" of power, foresworn. or something.

xpost

Purchasing Power is a nebuluous, and often theoretical, concept!

i saw derek jarman on tv blaming the 80s on the people who were alive in the 60s, but who were really square. obviously a piece of topflight analysis, but that's the sort of thing i mean. think john harris and hazel b.lears (aaaaaah dys), kind of thing.

at some point the haircut indie generation will take power too.

I think I might be a Thatcherkid, of sorts. I got into a public school thanks to assisted places scheme, and my mum bought our council house (for £18000!!! blimey) in 1991, ok Thatcher wasn't in power then but whatevs. Anyway we definitely benefitted in some ways from Thatcher's policies, which is why my mum always voted Tory, to my chagrin - I remember me & my sister trying to persuade her not to in the 90s, to no end. So much for working class solidarity I guess.

i think it'd be hard to blame thatcherkids as defined above for anything beyond the success of the kaiser chiefs

purchasing power, or lack of it, however theoretical, is what's currently driving sarkozy's popularity down below sea-level

it poss. helps that france still has (by its fingernails) an actual left-wing newspaper

oh, thats the whole point!

It is often theoretical, until it is not. cf British people spending money they don't have, and never had

Yes and no - you don't think Blair and Brown openly courted those coming-of-age voters who grew up during the 80s and whose parents benefitted from Thatcherism but didn't really want any of the nasty bits?

(xpost to DG)

and then got the nasty bits in the end anyway?

that's one way of putting what thatcher did to britain!

Hmm, well I voted for Blair in 1997 so... but then WTF else can you do really. Not vote I guess.

xpost

no. they're a) too young and b) by the sounds of things (and from personal experience) they never vote anyway

i always got the feeling those of the youth most responsible would have been those born in the early-mid 70s with real memories of the 80s

oh ^^^colonel poo

Ashes To Ashes for instance is a splendid whitewash of 1981 London. No New Cross fire? No sus laws? No Southall or Brixton riots? Why, we can get away with it by saying it's fan fiction! So it's all Tenpole Tudor and Philip Glenister dressing up in funny costumes like Crackerjack.

Sus laws are back, hey it's 1981 again!

Although if this means I get to watch the Exploited on TOTP I guess I can deal

Are you sure Ashes To Ashes won't get round to them? Considering Life On Mars spent half of each episode foreshadowing these things it seems kind of a waste.

Ashes To Ashes for instance is a splendid whitewash of 1981 London. No New Cross fire? No sus laws? No Southall or Brixton riots? Why, we can get away with it by saying it's fan fiction! So it's all Tenpole Tudor and Philip Glenister dressing up in funny costumes like Crackerjack.

-- Dingbod Kesterson, Friday, February 22, 2008 3:48 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

the riots and the sus laws got a brief mention in the first ep i think.

They mentioned the Brixton Riots on TV, I think, but then she changed the channel xp

LOM/ATA can be Heartbeat for the desensitised generation

Presumably, to readers of all other newspapers, the Guardian still seems very left wing (even when centre)?

Anyway we definitely benefitted in some ways from Thatcher's policies, which is why my mum always voted Tory, to my chagrin - I remember me & my sister trying to persuade her not to in the 90s, to no end.

so what made you realise Thatcher badness (if you weren't feeling the effects directly)?

so what made you realise Thatcher badness (if you weren't feeling the effects directly)?

or rather Tory badness. i guess i could just ask myself same question - difficult to trace tho.

Presumably, to readers of all other newspapers, the Guardian still seems very left wing (even when centre)?

i think to everybody apart from ilx the guardian is left wing (tho ilxors are largely correct, people be stupid)

That's a tough one really, (to Blueski) - I mean there are no mines in Worcestershire etc, I dunno really what effect positive or negative Thatcher had where I lived, I was too young. I know that at my secondary school I was already left-sympathetic, despite (because of?) being surrounded by middle class kids. Most of the teachers were right-wing, not all though. Maybe it was due to seeing the disparities between myself and my class-mates? Fuck knows tbh. I should probably not attempt to answer these questions after lunchtime drinking sessions...

Even as a kid living in the "welthy" south near London, people still hated her. Especially poll tax and boom/bust economics. My parents weren't really political at all, and you know when you've pissed people like that off, you've really fucked up.

*"wealthy"

Reads like I'm quoting somebody else's bad spelling, haha.

yeah the poll tax outrage had an effect on me but not being so in the know on the other 80s badness at the time it was probably more the post-Thatch day to day 'sleaze!' headlines plus Major's rep as monochrome cricket bore that did just as much damage for those still unsure.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/23/1

^^ kind of what i meant

WTF at Harris being otm.

I think the Toynbees of the world might have an argument (though I'd disagree with it) that the record inequalities in one of the richest countries in the world (more disparity than under Thatcher)

I don't deny that the poorest are not a lot worse off than the richest but isn't that just because the richest are so very much richer. And isn't there a much bigger group in the middle than there was under Thatcher? Or indeed any other time? I'm asking because I don't know. Also isn't being deprived relative. People in poverty (even in the 70s) wouldn't recognise what people describe as deprived to-day. Possibly?

In what way is the Labour government "supposedly left wing" though? Who is making that supposition?

well..not really over the last 15 years obviously (and, not really at any point when they've actually been in power - unless you count Atlee),

Why wouldn't you count Atlee?

I'm just catching up on this thread. Apologies.

Ned I believe that inflation-adjusted wages for the bottom 25% of income earners in Britain has declined since the 1970s but I don't have actual figures to hand.

Also isn't being deprived relative. People in poverty (even in the 70s) wouldn't recognise what people describe as deprived to-day. Possibly?

-- Ned Trifle II, Saturday, 23 February 2008 17:28

Sure, the poorest people today arguably might have more access to cheap, plentiful material goods like consumer electronics, holidays, a wider range of food, etc...

BUT

That's not the whole argument. You also have to consider factors like class mobility, good working class careers, decent public services, a sense of community, root causes of violent crime in poorer areas...

Having a Skybox and going to Magaluf once a year doesn't really make up for the loss of a lot of these things.

Personally, i do count Atlee. some may argue against it because of unusual circumstances, so was leaving an 'if you count..' in there for that reason. He counts good enough for me though

xp

Did 'they' ever have these things? I hear a lot about the lack of decent public services but from what I can remember of the last 40 years people have always moaned about the buses/the nhs/the council. Was it really better at some point in the past? If so, when?

don't deny that the poorest are not a lot worse off than the richest but isn't that just because the richest are so very much richer. And isn't there a much bigger group in the middle than there was under Thatcher? Or indeed any other time? I'm asking because I don't know. Also isn't being deprived relative. People in poverty (even in the 70s) wouldn't recognise what people describe as deprived to-day. Possibly?

In general i think people are poorer than they were 30 years ago, and that this is disguised by shiny consumer goods, but we really shouldn't be measuring access to consumer goods as an indicator of wealth. Our wages have been going down in real terms for years, our housing stock is of poor quality and yet the among the highest in europe (even to rent!), our level of indebtedness is the highest in the western world, and people-out-of-employment (lets not use something as discredited as 'unemployment figures') is high across much of the north, still with whole towns completely rundown and huge numbers out of work

its all been financed by shifting the debt burden from industry to the consumer,

We've had the illusion of wealth for many years, an illusion that has only been maintained by the continued expansion of debt to record levels. i could do round driving an audi tt, holidays in st lucia, 32" inch plasma tv, but how am i paying for it? how can we be getting richer and affording these things if our wages are going down in real terms?

and that is why the next decade is going to be a painful adjustment for many people (not just the UK to be fair, it is merely here where the problem is the strongest)

Also, its worth remembering that one of the popular sayings in britain in the 1930s was 'poverty amongst plenty'

Also didn't the depression only really kick in big style around 1931-2? Again comes back to the idea that 2010 is going to be the really bad year this time round

OOPS wrong thread!

xp

Did 'they' ever have these things? I hear a lot about the lack of decent public services but from what I can remember of the last 40 years people have always moaned about the buses/the nhs/the council. Was it really better at some point in the past? If so, when?

-- Ned Trifle II, Saturday, 23 February 2008

This is a good question, and one that's easy for a lefty to get a bit squeamish about. But I think the main thing is the principals behind the ideals of unionism, socialism, social justice in the 70s, even if the results weren't so "efficient". If 70s Labour wasn't providing these things, it's important that people expected them. Course it's always dodgy to allude to a "golden age", but that doesn't excuse Thatcherism.

Heheh, you're right - this is the wrong thread! But anyway...

how can we be getting richer and affording these things if our wages are going down in real terms?

Well we may not be getting richer but aren't a lot of these things a lot cheaper than they were? How much was a car in 1950 as a percentage of someone's wage? Or a television? Or a holiday abroad?

I am generally interested in knowing the answers to this, incidentally, I know it looks like I'm just yanking laxalt's chain all the time but I'm not!

cars and televisions have been getting cheaper most definitely. holidays abroad too (esp as airline travel is subsidized). but why have they been getting cheaper, and what does this mean?

partly technological advances yes, but also, where are a lot of the consumer goods that we buy actually made? we don't make these things ourselves anymore, and some of the cheaper prices are surely because its been cheaper to make them abroad (contributing to our own manufacturing decline), so is helped by a strong currency against weaker ones where stuff is made?

the problem is i dont think that cheaper foreign made consumer goods aren't making us richer. and i don't think they're a good measure of wealth! a car might have been more expensive in 1950 than today, so...why are we more in debt today than in 1950?

a lot of the cheapness of consumer goods can pretty much be put down to globalization, no? get rid of your homegrown industry and let other people do it abroad more cheaply? your pound goes a long way over there! but what if the pound starts to fall against those currencies, what if those countries start to improve standards of living, and maybe start borrowing beyond their means and starting their own booms, and pushing up their own wages, and increasing their own demand for goods?

and what if the actual quality of life isn't measured in tvs, cars and holidays, but in cheap and good quality housing for all, in low energy and food costs, and in people living within their means.

but, lets just say we are richer now, for arguments sake, what happens when we have to repay the debt? how, exactly, are we going to do that?

I don't think quality of life is only measured in tvs/cars/holidays although i would say that MY life is better because I have a tv/car/holidays. How would we go about getting those other things?

that is to say...i dont think they are making us richer

basically, it looks pretty much like Peonage to me. The illusion of wealth. And each time the cycle comes round we are more indebted than the last time, to the people who really own everything. the illusion is a good one, because it produces many winners at the early stages of each cycle.

How would we go about getting those other things?

what do you mean?

cheap and good quality housing for all, in low energy and food costs, and in people living within their means.

I know, it's a big question. But we got to start somewhere.

Oh ok!

houses: not selling off the council houses might have been a start. the housing issue is one of distribution, not supply. why are the housebuilders buildong such poor quality housing of the wrong type and in the wrong locations? why is it so much more expensive?

energy/food: tougher one this, because this was always going to rise, we've had these artificially low for years, now they are beginning to rise to their natural levels. weakening pound won't help, but thats what happens when you debase the money supply

people living within their means: well you can't make people be sensible, but we have encouraged a 'buy now pay tomorrow' culture which has left us paying double for everything and in incredible debt

anyway, my point is, we're not richer because cars are cheaper.

also, we're going to continue to get poorer from here on in because we've had a pretty benign postwar period, economically (comparatively), and we shouldn't expect that to be the default

wonder how he's getting on

Who dat?

laxalt

Cheerfully optimistic as ever, spring in step, glint in eye, whistle on breath

Not the Guardian but it might as well go here. They had to scrape me off the ceiling of the train after I read this yesterday. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3971850.ece

Hey we set up a "lol The Times" thread for them kinds of challops.

oh yeah, fuck. how did I miss that? it was only last month.

meet yer there.

i thought blueski was referring to max gogarty's adventures in thailand

yes

Jamie Whyte is kind of the Geir Hongro of Times columnists.

Although fair's fair, he was great when he was in Jamie Whyte and the Blacks.

'The tenderness of the delicate American buttock'

max gogarty II: beyond thunderdome

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/27/tom-meltzer-moving-family

I have moved to Wimbledon in south London. Not the nice part with tennis courts and strawberries and hats. The dilapidated part where the air tastes of fried chicken.

I grew up in this location, it is not dilapidated at all. also, fried chicken is delicious.

lol he's an aspiring stand-up

http://www.myspace.com/thetommeltzer

Is he aware that fried chicken is not a sensible reference when describing black neighbourhoods?

Less than a minute's walk from the door of my new flat are a job centre, a wine warehouse and a gun shop. Perfect for those mornings when you wake up and think, "I need a job, a hunting rifle and a minimum of 12 bottles of wine."

Less than a minute's walk from the door of my new flat are a hardware store, a newsagent and a chemist. Perfect for those mornings when you wake up and think, "I need some sandpaper, some porn and some prescription drugs."

Right? Right?

why is dubdubdub always the first commenter?

I am smart and stopped reading this immediately upon seeing that it was a page dedicated to a 21-year-old blethering on about leaving home.

I am stupid and actually bought The Guardian that it's in.

I am smart and only paid 30p for it.

And so on.

I like to fart and I am crazy.

And so on.

yeah, two guardian thread revives at once, but serparate issues are in play.

welcome to

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/17/tom-meltzer-diary-work-experience

max gogarty 2: the gogartying.

At least Max didn't die on his arse in vain

Pretty sure the Graun puts these things on the site deliberately nowadays just as hit-fishing.

first column of his i've actually read rather than going 'ararhghghgh' at the title and skipping on

Obviously an arsehole feeding frenzy for the most part but this comment is so otm they should just close the thread with it:

The problem with this article is that those who liked the old ones will think it's unnecessary, those who publicly disliked them will never be converted, and those that didn't read them are probably just feeling alienated.

i dunno: to be honest i think that column's pretty well-executed. i think commissioning it was a silly idea, but oh well. i wish tom meltzer luck, and hope he manages to go on to things which are slightly less pointless than a one-column column in G2.

i am apparently going to meet m4x g0g4rty tomorrow

To discuss Ch3m$3x?

I occasionally wonder what Max Gogarty is up to these days and wouldn't you know...

Interesting. Someone who resigned from VICE —after women were INVITED to air concerns about him to a manager now on their "female advisory board"— is currently a BBC commissioner. We were told it was a confidential process. It wasn't + he holds grudges 🙂https://t.co/T1lBxHmC2w

— Joanna Fuertes (@FUERTESKNIGHT) January 30, 2018

fuck it, it's Max Gogarty, Executive Editor of BBC Three https://t.co/ldbVpzJQYB

— Joanna Fuertes (@FUERTESKNIGHT) January 30, 2018

I never cease to be amazed how easy it is to fall upwards in this country if you have the right connections.

I've had 4 or 5 goes at writing a response that wasn't me screaming at the screen and this country but I can't do it to myself tbh

cool that the living embodiment of the concept of the failson can go on to enjoy a career as a sexually predatory nathan barley despite the top google searches for his name clearly demonstrating what a waste of skin he is

http://cphtvfestival.dk/_files/_database/database51/Max283x377.jpg
https://a.ltrbxd.com/resized/sm/upload/1q/in/e6/1h/eraserhead-1200-1200-675-675-crop-000000.jpg?k=314b611329

I love our post-class modern society, I can be anything I set my mind to

'dad i wanna be sexually inappropriate with co-workers'

'hold on son i'll get my contacts book'

I don't know why The Guardian has canned the blog. It would have been a must read for me, if only for the comments.

― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:29 (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I expect Max canned it himself. Already, for years to come prospective employers are going to google him up only to find him excoriated on hundreds of blogs, forums and suchlike...

― Zelda Zonk, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:50 (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not really a problem for a budding journalist, surely?

― darraghmac, Monday, 18 February 2008 12:53 (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wise words from yer man at the end there.

Wow, just coming up to the 10th anniversary too. Max Gogarty day is going to be big this year

Lol, I'd forgotten, but the very first comment on the original Gogarty piece was a couple of good faith tips about things to do in thailand, oblivious to the storm incoming

perhaps only the beatles achieved more in just one decade

There was Bowie's run from Space Oddity to Scary Monsters

Shakespeare's mid 1590s to mid 1600s were, perhaps, equivalently fecund

The conquests of Alexander, one feels, are comparable

wonder if Max Gogarty is weeping even now

xp he went to india too lol

Idly wondering if he disclosed his reasons for leaving Vice in his BBC interview.

mainly i'm just psyched to find out where he'll fail to after he gets booted from the bbc

by 2020 he'll be an oscar-winner probably

Choice quote from gogarty sr at the time iirc "oh I barely write for the guardian at all really"

neither did his son

barely anyone wrote for the guardian at the time but everyone who did went on to start a media career of their own iirc

I'd make it tabloid sized and have more music & film stuff. Plus I'd hire Nick Southall to be music editor.

Two of these things have happened I think?

congrats to nick, v well deserved