"Ingmar Bergman's films utterly depressing" -- Ingmar Bergman

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"Oh, Whispers of the Wolf was pretty scary, eh, kids? With all those faces and moods, and they were depressed a lot, weren't they, kids? You don't think it's scary to be depressed all the time?"

alan r. banana (alanbanana), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:22 (fifteen years ago) link

hahhaha i love him!!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:43 (fifteen years ago) link

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN INGMAR BERGMAN FILM

(how many hail mary's is that?)

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:54 (fifteen years ago) link

holy moley!

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 10 April 2004 19:59 (fifteen years ago) link

i know: rainy day(s), etc.

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 April 2004 20:07 (fifteen years ago) link

AMateurist I'll never trust anything you say regarding film ever again!

I would say that Wild Strawberries is far from depressing.

The one about God being a spider is a bit depressing. Cries and Whispers is certainly quite depressing.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link

So?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:03 (fifteen years ago) link

That's some shitty Peter Gabriel album.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Fanny and Alexander is absolutely uplifting!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:03 (fifteen years ago) link

what's the one about the two women and there's some creepy incest subtext?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

i felt like i had been beaten with sticks after that particular film class.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:20 (fifteen years ago) link

I think they all have two women and a creepy incest subtext.

I think the one you are thinking about has a mother and her son waiting around in some hotel room or something? The mother is waiting for a phone call from the other woman. Then the boy sees a tank roll through the streets. The end.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:23 (fifteen years ago) link

The Silence is what it is called. I just checked.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 23:25 (fifteen years ago) link

that's the one that dreyer didn't like

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 11 April 2004 12:26 (fifteen years ago) link

Watching bergman is depressing in a good way. I think "A Passion" may be the greatest film of all time. "Scenes from a Marriage": I pretty well cried all through the first half; and saw it twice more in a row.

Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Sunday, 11 April 2004 14:55 (fifteen years ago) link

or maybe just fucking underage boys?

That's Persona.

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 11 April 2004 17:51 (fifteen years ago) link

dude in crowd: "but where is the hope?"
bela tarr: "the hope is that you see this film."

prima fassy (mwah), Sunday, 11 April 2004 19:38 (fifteen years ago) link

two years pass...
aaaargh

who wrote the famous piece about not-interviewing bergman?

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:05 (thirteen years ago) link

ive seen 4, i dont like him

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 10:43 (thirteen years ago) link

I think Bergman is great, one of teh greatest filmakers ever. I usually like comedies and stupid movies, but I love his stuff for drama and for its weirdness. I guess being something of a depressive myself, I see myself in some of the characters. Great stuff, especially winter light and the hour of teh wolf

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:44 (thirteen years ago) link

Smiles of a Summer Night is hilarious.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 11:49 (thirteen years ago) link


Now in English:

http://www.ingmarbergman.se/

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 12:31 (thirteen years ago) link

I wonder if amateurist ever fixed the Bergman blind side?

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 13:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Bergman is the opposite of John Waters when it comes to appreciating anyone else's films. Dude hates everything.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link

but didn't he admit to liking "Dallas"?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 18:07 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm sure it was in the context of bashing Sirk or something.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link

When I was 12 I tried to get a sense of superiority by watching the Ingmar Bergman "weekend" on Channel 4... I got through the first ten minutes of the one where the women are looking for a boy named "Ake" (what is that one?)...

I decided in the end that "The Fast Show" just starting on BBC2 would be more valuable for me culture-wise..... Meh.......

JTS (JTS), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link

one month passes...
S: What about Bellocchio? Have you seen China Is Near?
B: Terrible, terrible, very homosexual, very artificial, aggressive in a very empty way.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:24 (thirteen years ago) link

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

Even when the film is done, there is no-one I can show it to who gives his sincere opinion. There is silence.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:45 (thirteen years ago) link

bergman's a pretty famous homophobe, oddly enough.

that's disappointing.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 14:59 (thirteen years ago) link

So is Bergman as a human being.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 10 July 2006 16:44 (thirteen years ago) link

"Another great couple of examples of the strength of American cinema is American Beauty and Magnolia." - Interview with Jan Aghed in the Swedish daily newspaper Sydsvenska Dagbladet (May 2002)

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:33 (thirteen years ago) link

that's not so outlandish.

i don't know, bergman having occasionally questionable taste is something i don't care too much about, it's bergman recklessly insulting other filmmakers that seems a bit gauche. also anyone making common cause with john simon is pretty suspect.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link

leaving aside his being a misogynist nazi for a moment, simon's balking at the supposed obscurantism of godard is sort of weird considering his idea of the apogee of cinema is...ingmar bergman's "persona."

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link

on orson welles:

"For me he's just a hoax. It's empty. It's not interesting. It's dead. Citizen Kane, which I have a copy of— is all the critics' darling, always at the top of every poll taken, but I think it's a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie's got is absolutely unbelievable."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:00 (thirteen years ago) link

the weird part of that quote is him specifying that he has a copy of it - imagine having a copy of citizen kane!!!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:01 (thirteen years ago) link

what he doesn't say is that it's a VCD.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:06 (thirteen years ago) link

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link

Woah! 'himself'?
I always thought Ingmar Bergman was one of those glamorous filmstar women.

He doesn't look very glamorous in that link.

mei (mei), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:21 (thirteen years ago) link

TS: Ingrid Bergman vs. Ingmar Bergman

horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 10 July 2006 19:30 (thirteen years ago) link

funny how she actually ended up in one of his films! i guess they were tired of folks making that joke...

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 10 July 2006 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link

amateurist, did you get around to seeing any ingmar films? what d'you think?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:06 (thirteen years ago) link

HE DIRECTS FILMS OF COURSE HE'S A BIG WEIRD ASSHOLE

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:36 (thirteen years ago) link

though I love the religious trilogy.

trees (treesessplode), Monday, 10 July 2006 23:38 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

RIP :-(

Hanna, Monday, 30 July 2007 08:45 (twelve years ago) link

8( have just watched 'Persona' and 'Sawdust And Tinsel' and 'Journey into Autumn' and those two documentaries about him on bbc4 in the last couple of weeks. Seventh Seal has just been re-released in cinemas here too, i must find out where it's on.

koogs, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:09 (twelve years ago) link

rip

hstencil, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:20 (twelve years ago) link

Damn. Damn. Damn.

MsLaura, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:26 (twelve years ago) link

was going to see transformers today but now feel kind of guilty.

Gukbe, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:39 (twelve years ago) link

actually, watching the film with an overwhelming feeling of guilt might be the most fitting tribute to bergman i can think of.

Gukbe, Monday, 30 July 2007 09:42 (twelve years ago) link

:-(

G00blar, Monday, 30 July 2007 10:15 (twelve years ago) link

Robots Is Pissguys

RJG, Monday, 30 July 2007 11:10 (twelve years ago) link

RIP, though, really, and I'll go and see transformers

RJG, Monday, 30 July 2007 11:10 (twelve years ago) link

Ingmar Bergman R.I.P.

Zeno, Monday, 30 July 2007 11:37 (twelve years ago) link

Gukbe OTM.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 30 July 2007 12:38 (twelve years ago) link

one year passes...

So, can somebody explain to me what made Persona a parable about the Vietnam conflict? I've heard this mentioned several times, and beyond the self-immolation fragment in the opening montage I don't understand the connection. Answers appreciated, this has been bothering me for some time and Film Four's Bergman season means its bothering me again.

I know, right?, Friday, 1 August 2008 11:51 (eleven years ago) link

The parallel is made by zealous film professors.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 1 August 2008 13:09 (eleven years ago) link

Yeah but based on what? It's always puzzled me, I can't even see it in a tenuous way

I know, right?, Saturday, 2 August 2008 01:05 (eleven years ago) link

I'll keep this in mind if I stay up during Film Four's screening tomorrow night.

Doubt I'll stay with it...

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 2 August 2008 14:49 (eleven years ago) link

No it's really gripping all the way through, esp once they get to the house, but Vietnam?

I know, right?, Saturday, 2 August 2008 16:09 (eleven years ago) link

my Bergman prof didn't mention vietnam. Just a lot of stuff about the opening montage being a summation of the history of cinema and the rest the film discussed in terms of "psychological vampirism".

dan selzer, Saturday, 2 August 2008 16:13 (eleven years ago) link

see now, that's what I got

I know, right?, Saturday, 2 August 2008 16:14 (eleven years ago) link

seven months pass...

Finally watched Seventh Seal last night...sort of a duty-to-the-classic-canon thing rather than because I really wanted to watch it. But I was surprised how much I enjoyed it.

if you put sci3ntology thru a brita filter 4 times you get ILX (WmC), Sunday, 29 March 2009 15:37 (ten years ago) link

four months pass...

I saw it just now and it'sastoundingly brilliant. Fucking funny, sad, human, triumphant, frightening study of death and the unknowability of the divine. With a truly inspired ensemble cast, and that one scene with the eating of wild strawberries ("I will never forget this moment") which almost had me weeping for joy

cockles (country matters), Sunday, 16 August 2009 04:35 (ten years ago) link

so, was amateurist joking when he said he never saw a bergman film in 2004?

if he wasn't, i am really fucking stunned!

Persona has to be one of the 10 greatest, no doubt in my mind.

t0dd swiss, Sunday, 16 August 2009 04:54 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXGFo2WI2aw

Zeno, Saturday, 10 October 2009 05:39 (ten years ago) link

Witless.

tie me up, dress in drag, and read to me from the bible (kenan), Saturday, 10 October 2009 06:01 (ten years ago) link

seven months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17fGOC0IC9I

anyone who mistakes bergman for being austere/cold/humourless should see this movie

<3 it

kinda reminds me of the muppet show

NUDE. MAYNE. (s1ocki), Monday, 17 May 2010 03:54 (nine years ago) link

Oh dear god no song gets stuck in my head like Papageno!

I had no idea he did a The Magic Flute.

it is... wonderful.

please to see it.

NUDE. MAYNE. (s1ocki), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 03:10 (nine years ago) link

it would be great to watch this on a big screen outdoors this summer, i feel

planes/octaves/dimensions of existence (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 03:36 (nine years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpIUYzxlpjw

NUDE. MAYNE. (s1ocki), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 03:43 (nine years ago) link

also anyone making common cause with john simon is pretty suspect.

*hisses and boos*

Simon is terrific and his reviews were wickedly funny. Your point about Simon trashing the abstruse but digging "Persona" is kinda OTM though

Cunga, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 03:43 (nine years ago) link

kinda did a little tribute to magic flute here

NUDE. MAYNE. (s1ocki), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 16:09 (nine years ago) link

That's great!

frozen cookie (Abbott), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 16:25 (nine years ago) link

thk u!

NUDE. MAYNE. (s1ocki), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 16:27 (nine years ago) link

I have pushed this o the top of my Netflix queue btw. I am so stoked!

frozen cookie (Abbott), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 16:29 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

his real dad was Steve jobs

Latham Green, Thursday, 26 May 2011 19:09 (eight years ago) link

two years pass...

I watched the "film" version of Scenes From a Marriage about sixteen years ago. Criterion released both versions. Is the TV version better?

A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 May 2013 00:30 (six years ago) link

ten months pass...

Just watched "Seventh Seal" for the first time. My first Bergman. It was wonderful!

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 April 2014 00:41 (five years ago) link

Best Death ever!

Aimless, Sunday, 13 April 2014 00:52 (five years ago) link

The part where they are watching the witch be burned, and they are looking into her eyes and not seeing God in them, is pretty amazing.

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 April 2014 01:04 (five years ago) link

For all the existential angst, there's a lot of humor in this.

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 April 2014 01:05 (five years ago) link

I once tried to watch Wild Strawberries when I was on the comedown off Ecstasy. It's a great movie, but dear god, what was I thinking? I will never understand why I thought it would be suitable for that frame of mind. Had to turn it off.

mirostones, Sunday, 13 April 2014 14:41 (five years ago) link

Bergman has been my 2nd-favorite discovery since I started my heavy film-immersion program a few years ago. I recommend The Magician next or soonish.

Oren Zombarchi (WilliamC), Sunday, 13 April 2014 14:55 (five years ago) link

Thanks, I will definitely check that out next!

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 April 2014 16:06 (five years ago) link

This opens here shortly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELIMeemx-FI

I invented a new word to describe it: "Bergmanesque."

clemenza, Sunday, 13 April 2014 16:54 (five years ago) link

Summer Interlude is probably my favourite. Summer with Monika, Seventh Seal, Wild Strawberries and Through A Glass Darkly are all solid gold. and Virgin Spring (two really shockingly violent bits)

you're right about 7th seal and the humour - bloke climbs a tree to escape death, death gets out a saw. slapstick. also feels like every single frame of the film would make a great poster.

koogs, Sunday, 13 April 2014 19:53 (five years ago) link

> Bergman has been my 2nd-favorite discovery since I started my heavy film-immersion program

and the first?

koogs, Sunday, 13 April 2014 19:53 (five years ago) link

Yes, Death with the saw! So good! Also when the squire is off to the side calling every trick Lisa is going to use to calm her furious husband. "It's only a matter of time before she brings up his favorite dish..." This kind of humor is all over sitcoms!

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 April 2014 20:05 (five years ago) link

Also the bit where they are doing that silly play with the devil and a somewhat vulgarly playful song and all of a sudden this mass of Black Death ecstatics wanders into town and just completely usurps their act. People whipping each other and calling out to God, making such a big show of it all. Suddenly the fool and his family dressed up in silly devil costumes seem the most genuine people around.

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 April 2014 20:15 (five years ago) link

I definitely need to watch it again, there's a lot of commentary on the performance aspects of religion, on people willfully fooling each other. The painter in the monastery painting pictures to stir up church attendance, the witch who is desperately trying to convince herself - in the face of her own death - that the devil is real and in her eyes.

This movie seems heavily influenced by the tarot, beginning and ending w the fool, plenty of knights and cups and clubs, etc. throughout. Then again the Tarot is probably influenced by Revelations...

▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 13 April 2014 20:22 (five years ago) link

koogs -- #1 is Ozu

Oren Zombarchi (WilliamC), Sunday, 13 April 2014 20:23 (five years ago) link

three years pass...

Liv Ullmann talks about Bergman in anticipation of BFI retrospective:

http://www.dazeddigital.com/film-tv/article/38835/1/liv-ullmann-ingmar-bergman-bfi

Josefa, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 15:42 (one year ago) link

Saw "Through a Glass Darkly" at the cinema only yesterday!

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 16:55 (one year ago) link

Got F&A out of the library for my first viewing in 15 years, particularly for the TV version, which I haven't seen. Is it worth it?

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:33 (one year ago) link

yes it absolutely is

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:34 (one year ago) link

Abysmal.

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:34 (one year ago) link

lol wrong thread soz

♫ very clever with maracas.jpg ♫ (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:35 (one year ago) link

Yes, at least one of my favorite scenes is cut from the theatrical.

Chris L, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:35 (one year ago) link

It was "The Silence" today. Still recovering.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:39 (one year ago) link

and is there more of Fanny? I would think so.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:40 (one year ago) link

i've never seen the theatrical cut so i can't say, but also nothing seems remotely excessive in the tv version so i don't really have a desire to watch the other one

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:41 (one year ago) link

I did two hours ago!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:43 (one year ago) link

the silence is terrific

mark s, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 21:52 (one year ago) link

The full version of Fanny and Alexander is sometimes my favourite movie of all time.

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 February 2018 01:10 (one year ago) link

So which is your favorite scene, Brad?

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 2 February 2018 16:28 (one year ago) link

F&A is the one where the uncle blows out a candle in unorthodox fashion, right?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 February 2018 16:59 (one year ago) link

Fastest five hours I've ever watched, most of which in one sitting. Much of it remained familiar; it helped.

Anyway, F&A is a notch below his very best achievements, but as epic it's an ideal summa.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 2 February 2018 17:06 (one year ago) link

do any hoovering? running machine?

Heavy Messages (jed_), Saturday, 3 February 2018 00:35 (one year ago) link

this WSJ piece has been up for 3 days, and the headline blurb calls him "the French icon"!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ingmar-bergmans-heart-of-darkness-1517434450

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 3 February 2018 17:24 (one year ago) link

lol jesus

Bergman doesn’t really get talked about much these days, at least ime. I remember when he died my friend’s dad made fun of how pretentious The Seventh Seal was, and yeah that’s definitely my least favorite of the 10 or so I’ve seen, but he’s not the icon that Fassbinder is. I don’t know, half formed thought, but something I’ve been thinking about since I first saw Persona last year.

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:16 (one year ago) link

I'm not sure I agree with you there.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:30 (one year ago) link

The reputation that The Seventh Seal has for "pretension" annoys me to no end. I'm assuming it has a lot to do with a) Bergman's presumed humourlessness (also B.S. as there is certainly humour in many of his films, and I don't just mean the comedies) and b) so many comedies (SCTV, Bill and Ted) utilizing the "playing chess with death" thing for laughs over the years, but mostly I just assume that most people who make the charge against the film haven't actually seen it.

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 3 February 2018 18:56 (one year ago) link

Bergman has always been about, for as long as I've been aware of these things -- as an 'icon' or otherwise.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 February 2018 19:40 (one year ago) link

yeah like i said this could just be in my life, in the film community here, he hasn't had a resurgence in interest or popularity like Tarkovsky or Fassbinder. not sure. like i said, not a fully formed thought. and yeah i know the thing about him being humorless is just wrong. even Cries & Whispers has its moments

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:20 (one year ago) link

but yeah, maybe it's just he's always been around, like Hitchcock. his work has never been out of print or under appreciated, like Tarkovsky

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:21 (one year ago) link

I think he's always been around, but then I'd say the same about Tarkovsky, I don't when Tarkovsky's ever been under appreciated. The thing about Fassbinder is he might get talked about a lot but I'm always surprised at how few of his films people have actually seen.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:26 (one year ago) link

Fassbinder has the lived fast died young thing going for him, and yeah he was super prolific but you're right, is there a consensus on his most seen/ most well known work? Ali: Fear Eats the Soul?

Tarkovsky has gotten a bump in recent years, certainly with the vastly improved Criterion remaster of Stalker last summer.

flappy bird, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:29 (one year ago) link

The upside-down melodramas are the widely accepted best (Ali, Petra, Merchant). It's reductive but there's too much of it and takes years to process his work.

Tarkovsky always been around - to such an extent he overshadows a lot of other, equally terrific filmmaking from the Soviet Union and former republics.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 February 2018 21:50 (one year ago) link

The reduced fashionability of Bergman has been a thing for forever. When I was kid, one of the only film books lying around the house was Ebert's mid-'80s video guide, which had an appendix devoted to writings on the most recent Sight & Sound poll, and one of his big talking points was the shock of Bergman falling out of the Top 20.

Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 3 February 2018 22:22 (one year ago) link

Beat me to it, I was just about to say:

I think it's fair to say Bergman isn't talked about as much as he once was. If you look at the Sight & Sound polls through history they would suggest his critical cachet peaked somewhere around 1972. That was the year he placed two films in their Top Ten (Persona and Wild Strawberries), whereas in no other year has he placed even one that high. Maybe there's just more directors to talk about nowadays. It's otherwise difficult to explain why he's seemed to be relatively out-of-fashion in recent decades though still respected.

Josefa, Saturday, 3 February 2018 22:26 (one year ago) link

Guardian is comin' for him!

pic.twitter.com/js6AqdFAHW

— Peter Labuza (@labuzamovies) February 4, 2018

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:18 (one year ago) link

The reduced fashionability of Bergman has been a thing for forever. When I was kid, one of the only film books lying around the house was Ebert's mid-'80s video guide, which had an appendix devoted to writings on the most recent Sight & Sound poll, and one of his big talking points was the shock of Bergman falling out of the Top 20.

― Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, February 3, 2018 5:22 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Beat me to it, I was just about to say:

I think it's fair to say Bergman isn't talked about as much as he once was. If you look at the Sight & Sound polls through history they would suggest his critical cachet peaked somewhere around 1972. That was the year he placed two films in their Top Ten (Persona and Wild Strawberries), whereas in no other year has he placed even one that high. Maybe there's just more directors to talk about nowadays. It's otherwise difficult to explain why he's seemed to be relatively out-of-fashion in recent decades though still respected.

― Josefa, Saturday, February 3, 2018

His films made money in American cities and college towns well into the F&A era. Note the profits of those films and the number of Oscar nods he got (three Best Director nominations!). Popularity hurt him too.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:27 (one year ago) link

"Could this famously manipulative genius have survived in the #MeToo era?"

Tarr Yang Preminger Argento Carpenter (Eric H.), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:33 (one year ago) link

Dreyer is next!

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 February 2018 02:37 (one year ago) link

lol was gonna say hitchcock but he actually did get me too'd

flappy bird, Monday, 5 February 2018 03:45 (one year ago) link

That Bradshaw piece is weird, he doesn't quote any of the actresses saying he assaulted them on set - any relationships seemed to have been consensual?

Unlike Hitch, who was an abuser.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 08:02 (one year ago) link

well, acc to Tippi (I believe her)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 February 2018 08:58 (one year ago) link

#metoo

xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 10:06 (one year ago) link

Just last week someone I know was saying how long before Bergman's name comes up. As for Fassbinder, there's a can of worms.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 5 February 2018 10:57 (one year ago) link

That's a different scenario too -- iirc people would hang around and wouldn't leave when it got rough. Although Schygulla did for a while..

Whereas Hollywood there are contracts etc., more like a job.

That doesn't mean it should go on now. I won't watch people being chewed up and thrown out like garbage on film. I don't have the patience for that.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 11:40 (one year ago) link

Seventh Seal is the only Bergman i've seen all the way through. i was surprised at how funny/light hearted it was. that dark Scandanavian humor...

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 00:35 (one year ago) link

Funny, yes. Not quite lighthearted.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 00:41 (one year ago) link

on second thought yeah the subject matter is really quite dark. still ive had more dismal times in hollywood action movies

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:41 (one year ago) link

full length F&A is also one of my all time favorite films, to the extent I don't actually remember what was cut for the theatrical version anymore. (Same with Scenes from a Marriage). I usually don't watch in one sitting, which seems to fit the year-in-the-life-ness of it for me. Anyway, as in intro to Bergman, it's probably on the quaint side, but still has lots of darkness and weird psychological drama (especially the plot w/the Alexander and the bishop). I think for any budding artist, it's a great movie -- had a huge impact on me as a teen, for reasons I wasn't completely aware of at the time, but looking back seem obvious.

I think I learned about this guy from Woody Allen movies?

Dominique, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:58 (one year ago) link

I just saw Summer Interlude and loved it. It may be my new favourite Bergman.

This final scene with the ballet master in costume as the sorcerer from Swan Lake is eerie, and feels like a prefiguration of the knight and Death talking through the confessional grill.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZjg2OGU4NzYtOWM2ZS00MGZmLWJlOTQtYzY1OTU3NWE4Y2ZmXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_SY500_CR0,0,683,500_AL_.jpg

jmm, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:44 (one year ago) link

Love the shot in Summer Interlude where the guy jumps on the rocks & the girls screams and the camera just tilts up to a small black cloud above them.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:55 (one year ago) link

man do y'all realize how many critics awards trophies Liv Ullmann won for Bergman films in the 1970s? Also: I knew Bergman got three Oscar nods for Best Director but somehow forgot that one of them was for Face to Face.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:02 (one year ago) link

Check this out!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:12 (one year ago) link

I can't find it online, but there's a '70s Peanuts strip wherein Lucy reveals she uses a Liv Ullmann signature baseball glove.

...some of y'all too woke to function (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 00:55 (one year ago) link

holy shit^

flappy bird, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 05:49 (one year ago) link

on second thought yeah the subject matter is really quite dark. still ive had more dismal times in hollywood action movies


Ha this reminds me of Sparks' musical the seduction of ingmar bergman, in which the climax of the director's spiritual crisis comes when he finds himself living out... a Hollywood action movie

It's true tho that when ppl talk about smiles et al they always pitch it as "Bergman... does comedy?!?!?????,?!" but there are a load of funny bits in his other films

scrüt (wins), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 09:50 (one year ago) link

It's not even his only comedy (A Lesson in Love, The Devil's Eye).

Yeah, the NY critics din't start to turn in him til The Serpent's Egg, I think.

The Daily with links on the NY retro:

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/5373-a-bergman-feast-at-film-forum

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 February 2018 21:56 (one year ago) link

Solid Lane essay.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 February 2018 12:58 (one year ago) link

Harriet Andersson turns 86 on Wednesday

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:01 (one year ago) link

I saw IB's second feature as director this weekend, It Rains on Our Love, and... everyone has to start somewhere I guess. A lurching mix of Pirandello, Renoir and Capra (I kid you not -- there are cutaways to the romantic leads' dog). Not much of interest besides the attractiveness of the stars (the very handsome Birger Malmsten did a slew of early Bergmans, and turns up in The Silence and Face to Face.

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/h632/bzB65ZCNROzO0YytI6E49HsgSlp.jpg

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:13 (one year ago) link

I'm re-reading Bergman on Bergman, a book of 1968-1970 interviews, in which he admits It Rains on Our Love was influenced by film noir, particularly Michael Curtiz.

He's pretty down on most of his 1940s work, and apparently his least favorite of all his films is This Can't Happen Here (1950). He feels he came into his own with Summer Interlude, which came out a year after This Can't Happen Here even though it was filmed before it.

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:33 (one year ago) link

That's weird, cuz Rains came out in '46, and the only Curtiz film I'd call a noir up to then was Mildred Pierce (which doesn't especially resemble his film aside from a little nighttime suspense, I suppose).

I wouldn't challenge him re Summer Interlude, as the only other '40s film I've seen is Port of Call. He wasn't fully formed yet. I do have Crisis on my shelf from the library.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:39 (one year ago) link

Summer Interlude was the real eye-opener when I saw the Blu-ray print a couple years ago: that shit was sexy.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:41 (one year ago) link

yeah Summer Interlude is great

flappy bird, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:45 (one year ago) link

I guess there's a bit of inexactness in his comment about film noir. Here's the passage from the interview:

Interviewer: [It Rains on Our Love] shows a heavy influence from the film noir.

IB: Yes. At that time the film noir directors were my gods. One who meant a lot to me was Michael Curtiz. I remember how Lars-Eric Kjellgren and I - we'd started together at SF [Svensk Filmindustri] and were close friends - saw Curtiz's films, the same films, over and over again, evening after evening, to find out how he did it. It was extremely good for us. Curtiz knew how to tell a story quite clearly, simply, and straightforwardly, as Raoul Walsh did.

Josefa, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:31 (one year ago) link

Welles liked Curtiz too.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:45 (one year ago) link

As did Fassbinder.

Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:49 (one year ago) link

You can tell how good Curtiz and Raoul Walsh were: both failed to make the ILX 100.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:50 (one year ago) link

I don't like magicians but I liked The Magician. saw the matinee at Film Forum today and for the first half of the movie they were fuckin drilling in the next room or something, lots of pissed geriatrics getting up to give someone words.

flappy bird, Saturday, 17 February 2018 03:00 (one year ago) link

I saw his 1969 made-for-TV The Rite tonight, and I don't think the Film Forum crowd was ready when the phalluses and studded wrist cuffs appeared.

He got better at kink later.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 03:41 (one year ago) link

(The actor who plays the censorious judge is named Erik Hell. He goes into a confessional and the priest is Bergman.)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 03:49 (one year ago) link

It was fun to see Anders Ek in that (as Sebastian) 15 years after he was the clown in Sawdust and Tinsel. It's a weird one though.

One odd thing that's jumped out at me watching these Film Forum screenings... did Bergman use the same opening titles for all his films from the late '50s through at least Persona? Never noticed this before.

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:22 (one year ago) link

would explain Woody's thing

flappy bird, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:29 (one year ago) link

https://fontsinuse.com/uses/8894/persona-opening-titles

This. Or the same with black & white reversed.

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:45 (one year ago) link

Well I give up, look up "Persona font." I think the font is called Florida.

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 05:59 (one year ago) link

Looks like The Seventh Seal through Shame have the same titles. (1957 to 1968).

Josefa, Thursday, 22 February 2018 06:15 (one year ago) link

Dreams seems hard to see (no US DVD, no Kanopy stream), but I think I'll pass. P Kael snorted at it (also Secrets of Women, which I can see online).

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 February 2018 19:33 (one year ago) link

Dreams was solid, if a few degrees more predictable and conventional than I would expect from Bergman. Harriet Andersson nails her role, has a terrific drunk scene, and p much carries the film (one of the revelations of this Film Forum series is that Harriet Andersson is so goddamn great all the time, in many different roles). Cinematography excellent throughout. I felt the dialogue became repetitive and banal in Eva Dahlbeck's big scene about 3/4 of the way through and there the film dragged, but it picked up when the humor that had been essential previously returned at the end.

Would like to talk to anyone who saw All These Women (1964), which was, um... something. Bergman working well out of his comfort zone trying to do a '60s-style sexy comedic farce (tone somewhere in the neighborhood of What's New, Pussycat?). Nice to see the famous Bergman actresses in color for the first time, but the film doesn't really ever click comedically. Jarl Kulle is David Niven-ish, but no David Niven (or Peter Sellers).

Josefa, Friday, 23 February 2018 04:28 (one year ago) link

Haven't seen it; apparently it's regarded as a riff on 8-1/2. It's the year before Pussycat, so we can't accuse IB of imitating Woody Allen. ;)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 February 2018 04:39 (one year ago) link

I had heard that re 8 1/2 but I didn't really see it, except very superficially (decor, clothes)

Josefa, Friday, 23 February 2018 04:44 (one year ago) link

I can see it later...

https://www.kanopystreaming.com/product/all-these-women

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 February 2018 04:48 (one year ago) link

77 minutes, huh. Seems a lot longer.

Josefa, Friday, 23 February 2018 04:56 (one year ago) link

I can see it later...

https://www.kanopystreaming.com/product/all-these-women


Not if your access is through the NYPL you can't. It says "Video Not Available."

Whiney On The Moog (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 23 February 2018 11:38 (one year ago) link

well, that sucks, not that i have watched a single thing on it yet.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 25 February 2018 21:32 (one year ago) link

two talks with Liv at Film Forum

https://filmforum.org/events/podcasts

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 March 2018 18:48 (one year ago) link

^ Currently enjoying. In the earlier one the interviewer makes a big blunder saying that Sven Nykvist's first film with Bergman was Persona (and Ullmann goes along with it). Nykvist had been IB's sole cinematographer since The Virgin Spring in '59.

Josefa, Saturday, 10 March 2018 16:21 (one year ago) link

Thought about going to FF the other day but went instead to MoMA to see Rio Escondido.

Whiney On The Moog (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 March 2018 21:06 (one year ago) link

The two (well, three) filmmakers I've most softened on in the last five to ten years are Ingmar Bergman and the Dardennes. With age comes misery.

"Minneapolis" (barf) (Eric H.), Saturday, 10 March 2018 21:35 (one year ago) link

30 movies showing here starting with Crisis and Port of Call later this month. Very excited.

flappy bird, Saturday, 10 March 2018 21:35 (one year ago) link

two weeks pass...

Crisis was pretty good for a first film. Surprised by how much of a piece it felt with the rest of his work. As with every movie of his I've seen there's at least one moment that is transcendent - in this one, the train sequence with the triple superimposition of Mutti's face and those memories. Retro here is only doing one a month though, so Port of Call in a month, To Joy in May. So it'll be minor work for a while, at least until the summer.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 01:39 (one year ago) link

I watched the Criterion of Summer with Monika last weekend, remembered very little about it, including the "Look how hot my new girlfriend is" angle. The famous closeup of Harriet Andersson near the end is really something, but it's hard to read the denouement as anything but a Goddamn Bitch cautionary fable.

It might be fun to watch the US exploitation cut sometime:

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/2332-monika-trailer-for-broad-minds-only

Also the CC has a short edited from IB's location movies (taken with a Bell & Howell); look, Ingmar laughs! Constantly!

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 15:37 (one year ago) link

wow that trailer is nuts. is the dubbed version actually a different cut? I prefer Summer Interlude, though I like Monika more than SMOASN, which I thought really dragged (108 minutes feels long for him).

flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:24 (one year ago) link

yes, it was scissored down by an American hustler and dubbed with what sounds like a completely different script.

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/2317-monika-the-story-of-a-bad-girl

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:28 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

Centennial day on Saturday, and afaik no films showing in New York.

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 July 2018 18:18 (one year ago) link

Watch the TV version of Fanny and Alexander at home.

Police, Academy (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 10 July 2018 18:19 (one year ago) link

saw Thirst projected last night, fourth out of the 30 Bergman movies my local art house will be showing over the next two years. Really strange movie, didn't really cohere in the end, but such a great performance by Eva Henning. I was struck by the opening title sequence, so flamboyant for him! reminded me of a Hitchcock opening. Interesting use of (very loud) sound, and modular synths (!). Worth checking out if you have the chance, only 84 minutes.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 10 July 2018 18:49 (one year ago) link

The 1940s and 1950s movies are currently playing at the National Gallery of Art (DC). The subsequent movies will be playing at the AFI Silver (Silver Spring, MD) later this year. I'm planning on going to this weekend's screenings; will any other ILXors be there?

Polly of the Pre-Codes (j.lu), Tuesday, 10 July 2018 18:51 (one year ago) link

was thinking of going to the Wild Strawberries 35mm screening this month but the retro here is probably going to play it in the fall (DCP though).

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 17:32 (one year ago) link

or should say I assume it'll be DCP. who knows

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 17:32 (one year ago) link

Ingmar Bergman's films are utterly depressing imo

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 17:37 (one year ago) link

I know, great aren't they?

Alan Alba (Tom D.), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 17:40 (one year ago) link

Fanny and Alexander is the only one that has terrified me and I have no desire to revisit it any time soon. All of his other work I've seen (15 films) is utterly life-affirming & inspiring obv.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 17:46 (one year ago) link

neither library system within my reach carries the F&A TV version

i will have to wait for the Brooklyn video store to reopen at our downtown Alamo Drafthouse

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 18:06 (one year ago) link

I found Wild Strawberries (on 35mm, FWIW) soporific. Crisis and It Rains on Our Love are straight-up melodramas, and all the better for it.

(BTW, this is certainly about me, not you, but when I hear the term "life-affirming" in association with any film, I reach for...whatever this libbiest lib that ever libbed would substitute for for a revolver.)

Polly of the Pre-Codes (j.lu), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 18:39 (one year ago) link

A flower iirc

I Never Promised You A Hose Harden (Eric H.), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 18:40 (one year ago) link

xp yea it is overused. and really what I mean by that is they give me an enormous amount of contagious creativity. I leave his movies with electricity surging thru me.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 18:41 (one year ago) link

but j.lu, Bergman isn't fully Bergman in those early films.

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 18:59 (one year ago) link

Perhaps, but if there's one thing I've learned from ILM, it's that preferring an artist's early and harder-to-find work is a GREAT contrarian play. (Serious? I don't even know any more.)

Polly of the Pre-Codes (j.lu), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 19:42 (one year ago) link

I'll reiterate what I said about Thirst upthread, it's definitely worth checking out because it's not quite the straight melodrama of Crisis or Port of Call but there's still more "plot," jumbled as it is. Can't overstate how strange the sound is in that movie.

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 July 2018 01:18 (one year ago) link

The NGA has scheduled Thirst and Prison for 7/22. I'm planning on going (and smuggling in a stash of chocolate-covered espresso beans, in case sleepiness strikes).

Polly of the Pre-Codes (j.lu), Thursday, 12 July 2018 12:59 (one year ago) link

I've seen nearly all of the 1950-1982 Bergmans now, most on big screen, and have decided that Hour of the Wolf has the most interesting soundtrack. Modernist music from Lars Johan Werle, who also did the music in Persona.

Josefa, Thursday, 12 July 2018 13:21 (one year ago) link

not one of his strongest movies, though

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 12 July 2018 13:23 (one year ago) link

I think it has some of his best but also some of his most ill-advised (even goofy) scenes in it

Josefa, Thursday, 12 July 2018 13:25 (one year ago) link

wow, hope that's eligible in the usual November half price sale

a shomin-geki poster with some horror elements (WilliamC), Thursday, 12 July 2018 19:51 (one year ago) link

I don't need to own all those. (which is how i feel about films in general)

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 July 2018 20:32 (one year ago) link

Hoooooooooooooooooly shit

Yeah I hope I can get that 50% off. I already own ~11 of these but fuck it, there are very few filmmakers (artists, even) that I would shell out for like this. Really excited. I’ve held off on getting any of the films not on Blu-Ray & I don’t own the Eclipse series so this is a real treat, can’t wait.

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 July 2018 20:41 (one year ago) link

Too rich for my blood, even at 50% off, so I’m really hoping that some of the more obscure titles will be made available for individual rental on iTunes and whatnot (not even gonna bother trying to pester my library to get this).

Police, Academy (cryptosicko), Thursday, 12 July 2018 20:51 (one year ago) link

Filmstruck has all the features in that set except A Ship to India, Brink of Life, Färo Document, The Touch, The Serpent's Egg, After the Rehearsal and Saraband. But for everything on blu, plus the supplements and shorts and book, I'll def shell out $150 if I can get it at that price. I don't own any Bergman on disc, so I won't be duplicating anything.

a shomin-geki poster with some horror elements (WilliamC), Thursday, 12 July 2018 21:52 (one year ago) link

Can't believe everyone is making such a big deal about a hundred-year-old ventriloquist.

Sgt. Laughter (Old Lunch), Friday, 13 July 2018 00:21 (one year ago) link

I capitulated, unwisely.

Simon H., Friday, 13 July 2018 00:28 (one year ago) link

Are box sets like this typically excluded from their sale? I remember getting the Cassavetes & Tati boxes during the sale last year, but those are 5 or 6 films each, not 39 (!)

Was the Olympics box excluded?

flappy bird, Friday, 13 July 2018 00:32 (one year ago) link

I watched The Best Intentions on Amazon last week, my first screening since 1994 (on PBS!) so this one might as well count as a first.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 13 July 2018 00:34 (one year ago) link

The July sale is still ongoing, and the Olympic box is down from $399 to $199, so this should definitely be available. Really glad I didn't finally pick up Persona last week, even though it was near the top of my list...

You guys are caterpillar (Telephone thing), Friday, 13 July 2018 20:15 (one year ago) link

Ingmar Bergman tried to live in LA for a summer but as soon as Barbra Streisand called to invite him to a pool party he was on the next plane back to Sweden lmao pic.twitter.com/5tlmrBK2y4

— Lauren Wilford (@lauren_wilford) July 17, 2018

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 16:52 (one year ago) link

idk I'd wanna hang out with Barbra drinking limoncello by the pool

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 16:55 (one year ago) link

lol yeah i remember reading that story somewhere else, IB had one of his nervous breakdowns after that phone call and left immediately

flappy bird, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:15 (one year ago) link

I watched Bergman Island just a couple of days ago and he tells that story in passing.

a shomin-geki poster with some horror elements (WilliamC), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:20 (one year ago) link

no doubt Ingrid would've preferred to stay.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:24 (one year ago) link

why?

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:59 (one year ago) link

pretty sure Barbra was a better poolside companion than Liv + Ingmar.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:00 (one year ago) link

(and yes, yes, I know how much she wanted to work with him)

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:01 (one year ago) link

we're clear that "Ingrid" is Bergman's fifth and last wife, right?

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:03 (one year ago) link

(not the other Ingrid Bergman)

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:06 (one year ago) link

I thought it was Ingrid the actress before production of Autumn Sonata.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:06 (one year ago) link

when did he take that brief stab at living in LA? mid or late 70s?

flappy bird, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:06 (one year ago) link

76?

I like this line (from Mel Brooks apparently): "When Bergman left Sweden he complained about the persecution, the metaphysical anguish, the impossibility of realizing himself as an artist, the impotence created by the welfare state, the creeping Big Brotherism of the state ... When he left California three weeks later, he complained about the heat."

Dan S, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:08 (one year ago) link

That was '75, as per the photo of him posing with the Jaws mechanical shark (postrelease). So likely too early for Autumn Sonata (and I don't think IB the actress wd've been into a summer of rehearsals).

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:11 (one year ago) link

In fact I'm pretty sure I read in Images that when production started on Sonata Ingmar's attitude was "What the hell is she doing?"

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 18:13 (one year ago) link

IB did not like direct sunlight! He was perfectly clear about this in interviews. There's no way he could've existed in LA, Babs or no Babs,

Josefa, Thursday, 19 July 2018 04:13 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Saw the anticommunist thriller This Can't Happen Here at MoMA, which he suppressed during his life as an outlier he regretted making. Quite mediocre indeed, but nicely shot by Gunnar Fischer and has some sporadically funny stunt work. Notable for Donald Duck's only cameo in a Bergman film (surely?).

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 September 2018 00:57 (one year ago) link

When I saw it last week I thought it had a certain amount of overlap with the other relationship dramas Bergman was making at this time. The only difference is that the relationships suddenly have international geopolitical significance. If anyone else had made it, it would have been dismissed as third-rate Hitchcock.

Jan Holmberg of the Ingmar Bergman Foundation introduced the National Gallery of Art screening last week; did he or anyone else introduce your screening?

Accattony! Accattoni! Accattoné! (j.lu), Monday, 10 September 2018 01:12 (one year ago) link

no, it's actually running for a week at the museum

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 September 2018 01:30 (one year ago) link

...but i see Holmberg was there for the first show

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 September 2018 11:49 (one year ago) link

four weeks pass...

There's a series starting here soon. Very excited--just got a ticket for Liv Ullman introducing Shame.

clemenza, Tuesday, 9 October 2018 15:02 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

seeing Smiles of a Summer Night in a theater full of people aged 65+, mostly couples, made me appreciate it a lot more.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 02:36 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

saw The Seventh Seal in a theater for the first time on Monday and got the Criterion box in the mail yesterday. a theater here is showing most of his movies in chronological order over the course of two years and I haven't missed a single one, so I'm caught up on most of the early work up thru the mid-50s (with some blindspots).

anyway, I haven't seen any of these. what should I watch first?

A Ship to Inda
Waiting Women
A Lesson in Love
Dreams
Brink of Life
The Devil's Eye
Through a Glass Darkly
Winter Light
The Silence
All These Women
Hour of the Wolf
Shame
The Rite
The Passion of Anna
Faro Document
The Touch
Scenes from a Marriage
The Magic Flute
The Serpent's Egg
Faro Document 1979
From the Life of the Marionettes
After the Rehearsal
Saraband

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:22 (eleven months ago) link

well, the earliest masterwork on this list is Through a Glass Darkly

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:28 (eleven months ago) link

I was thinking that or Brink of Life. Going thru that list above, I realized I've only seen two of his 1960s films (Persona and The Virgin Spring).

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:31 (eleven months ago) link

it wd make sense to watch

Through a Glass Darkly
Winter Light
The Silence

whenever you get to them

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:34 (eleven months ago) link

(consecutively, i mean)

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:34 (eleven months ago) link

Hour of the Wolf and Shame are his horror and sf films respectively, a good one-two punch of late black and white Bergman

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:11 (eleven months ago) link

i don't really think of Shame as sf, anymore than i do The Sacrifice.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:39 (eleven months ago) link

I'm trying to sell it to the kids, Morbs

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:42 (eleven months ago) link

I love Shame, if it's possible to write such a thing. The scenes in the boat...

I like queer. You like queer, senator? (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:43 (eleven months ago) link

I had no idea Bergman ever did anything close to sf - Shame is part of a trilogy as well, right?

gonna start with the first trilogy, thanks morbs

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:00 (eleven months ago) link

Saw Persona for the fifth or sixth time last night, part of the Lightbox's big series--not utterly depressing. Between Shame and The Passion of Anna, both of which screened last week, I prefer The Passion of Anna. I've got Fanny and Alexander on the weekend, first time in many years.

clemenza, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:10 (eleven months ago) link

I have Passion of Anna from an old Bergman DVD box. Been a few years since I've seen it, but I remember liking it more than a lot of his more high profile work.

Love F&A, perfect viewing for this time of year.

circa1916, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:14 (eleven months ago) link

Fanny and Alexander is the one Bergman project I really didn't like. I've only seen the theatrical cut, but for one, the title is misleading- the movie's all about Alexander. also, this is a personal thing rather than a fault in the work, but I have a really hard time watching movies about paternalistic captors (Gaslight, Martha, The Night of the Hunter). I find them intensely uncomfortable to watch but more importantly very tedious, maybe because there's no suspense. imo a movie like Rosemary's Baby works brilliantly because we're kept in the dark until the very end.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:27 (eleven months ago) link

You find The Night of the Hunter ... tedious?!

I Never Promised You A Hose Harden (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:29 (eleven months ago) link

tedious to watch. I like all of the films I mentioned (except F&A), but I find them immensely frustrating to sit through because I have such a burning hatred for the villains. not sure why, nothing like this ever happened to me, maybe I don't find the archetype very interesting. Robert Mitchum is just so vile in that movie.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:49 (eleven months ago) link

he had VILE and EVIL tattooed on his toes

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:53 (eleven months ago) link

Sexily vile.

I Never Promised You A Hose Harden (Eric H.), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 21:54 (eleven months ago) link

Watching the "Trilogy" first is the correct answer, but I would add...

Dreams is worthwhile, it has a slightly different look for Bergman - more lush I'd say - and excellent performances.

Brink of Life has almost a Hollywood-type structure, though it goes places Hollywood probably wouldn't have in 1958. Recommended.

From the late period, I found From the Life of Marionettes quite interesting, at least stylistically

Dud: The Touch, The Serpent's Egg - his only two English-language films, which may not be coincidental

All These Women is such an oddity in his oeuvre, I don't know whether to call it a dud or a curiosity

Josefa, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 22:54 (eleven months ago) link

one month passes...

watched The Silence tonight, as soon as I saw that guy on the ladder with the fixed expression of goofy horror/surprise, I was sure this was Bergman's Fellini parody: the dwarves, the male lover holding his shoe by the laces, the setting, the debauchery. I was sure I'd find a whole subsection on the wiki page about this, but nope - lumped in as one of these modernist films, of a piece with Marienbad and Belle du Jour (!). no way. it's such a break for Bergman and an obvious comment on the Italian directors... anyway, The Silence was great and better than all of Fellini's films combined.

flappy bird, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:24 (ten months ago) link

now reading that his following film, All These Women, is a straight up 8 1/2 parody

buy the box people

flappy bird, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:27 (ten months ago) link

It's out of print already! But they say it'll be available again next month.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Monday, 14 January 2019 08:23 (ten months ago) link

Hoping this leads to more big single-director sets.

resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 14 January 2019 08:30 (ten months ago) link

me too, & though we probably won't see something as amazing and insane as the Bergman box for a while, directors with 10 or fewer films could be manageable. they already have the Tati box, they could do a Tarkovsky box but Kino has Nostalghia and they just put out The Sacrifice (would be perfectly happy with a nice Mirror disc no matter who puts it out). Bresson is doable.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 03:37 (ten months ago) link

I read rumors (on ILX?) that there's supposed to be a big Kiarostami box from CC this year. Maybe that'll turn out just to be the Koker Trilogy.

The Non-Verbal Signs Your Mod Is Giving You (WmC), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 03:57 (ten months ago) link

It all comes down to who holds the rights. Bergman and Kurosawa boxes happened because most of their films are owned by single entities who'll mega-license.

It's been floated on other forums that the next collections could be (in addition to Kiarostami) Ozu, Fassbinder, or even a retooled upgrade of Kurosawa, now that some more of his films are in play.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 04:02 (ten months ago) link

there's at least a dozen Fassbinder movies that have never had a region 1 release afaik

flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 04:03 (ten months ago) link

I could almost see them doing a series of Fassbinder sets ala EMI's Bowie vinyl boxes.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 05:02 (ten months ago) link

There's a Tarkovsky box in the UK with all 7 films. The BFI Ozu and Kurosawa releases were annoyingly incomplete though.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 06:59 (ten months ago) link

Tarkovsky box (by Curzon/Artificial Eye) is sold out at source and (maybe by accident) includes a terrible transfer of Stalker. Criterion did a stand-alone Stalker which was much better. Agree that it all comes down to who owns the rights but Criterion have also done a restoration of Andrei Rublev recently so maybe the rights could be acquired idk.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:07 (ten months ago) link

there've been individual BR releases of everything(?) that was in the dvd box that i bought 5 or 6 years ago, i'd assumed they were all upgrades. and they are all available everywhere (seemingly)

BR box set, £40, amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sculpting-Time-Tarkovsky-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B074ZXQ226/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1547554845&sr=1-1&keywords=Andrei+Tarkovsky

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:21 (ten months ago) link

oh, i see now that Ivan, Solaris and Stalker individual BRs are criterion editions and the others are from that box, Artificial Eye versions.

koogs, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:26 (ten months ago) link

oh ok, this is the one I was thinking of (which I have), no idea how the content differs (if at all) from your one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrei-Tarkovsky-Sculpting-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B071L2QVY8/

xp

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:27 (ten months ago) link

All of the Artificial Eye Tarkovsky BRs are meant to be 'remastered'. I bought the stand alone Nostalgia disc for £6 in Fopp - it is a significant upgrade on their previous, abysmal DVD, but still doesn't look that sparkling. Anagram is right that the Criterion Stalker - and Solaris - BRS available in the UK are much superior, and I'm guessing that their Andrei Rublev will be as well (I'm not even sure which cut of Rublev AE used for their disc).

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:30 (ten months ago) link

Funnily enough I've been looking into this recently (this should really be on a Tarkovsky thread, but since we're here...) Criterion just did a new BR restoration of Andrei Rublev which contains both the 185m (Tarkovsky-approved) cut and a longer 205m cut, but it's only been released in the US (so Region 1 only) and is unlikely to be released in the UK since it contains a scene of animal cruelty which contravenes UK film legislation. (I assume all currently available UK versions don't contain this scene.) Criterion won't release the uncut version in the UK.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:39 (ten months ago) link

*cut* version, I meant to say.

the word dog doesn't bark (anagram), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:40 (ten months ago) link

The BBFC are notoriously inconsistent when it comes to animal cruelty in films - generally, the artier the movie, the more lenient they are, so they might well pass the full version of Rublev uncut. As I understand it, Tarkovsky himself came to prefer the slightly shorter version, tho it is good to be offered the choice.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 12:44 (ten months ago) link

so Linn Ullmann, who's written several novels, has finally penned one based on her relationship with her famous parents. She was profiled in the NYT Magazine last week.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 January 2019 18:41 (ten months ago) link

Reading the Linn Ullmann book now, it's good. Lotsa detail about IB's personal habits, daily life at the house on Fåro, and the complicated dynamics of the Bergman/Ullmann family. Passages where she's trying to interview her dad as he's entering his dotage near the end are naturally pretty sad. Not yet clear on why this is called a novel instead of a straight-up memoir with names omitted.

Josefa, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:46 (nine months ago) link

two months pass...

RIP Bibi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UMbvohZ_iY

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:18 (seven months ago) link

:-(

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 14 April 2019 18:59 (seven months ago) link

otherwise fine NY Times obit has a mistake in it:

In addition to winning four Guldbagge Awards, the Swedish equivalent of the Oscar, she was named best actress at the Cannes Film Festival in 1958 for “Nara Livet” (“Brink of Life”), sharing the award with three co-stars, and best actress at the Berlin Film Festival in 1963 for the title role in “Alskarinnan” (“The Mistress”). Paradoxically (and surprisingly, to many), neither was a Bergman film.

Brink of Life is a Bergman film, and a great one at that. Not sure of its availability outside the Criterion boxset.

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 23:51 (seven months ago) link

one month passes...

It's still second tier Bergman -- the script is worse than the direction -- but I've realized I've been wrong about Autumn Sonata because I've denied how closely it cuts to the bone. I know way too many mothers and daughters in this same cycle of rage and affection.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:55 (five months ago) link

I've started working my way again through Bergman chronologically, I've only gotten to Port of Call so far. Can't wait til I get to the later stuff

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:59 (five months ago) link

I'm working my way through the big criterion collection box. Still only about a quarter of the way through. Trying to keep track of my Bergman power rankings as I proceed. There have been some nice surprises so far and a couple duds. A whole bunch of ones I've never seen before too.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 02:58 (five months ago) link

I saw The Virgin Spring yesterday at sort of a sparsely attended screening. even knowing the movie going in I underestimated how unbelievably harrowing and intense it is on a big screen and with other people, who were all either dead silent or openly weeping.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 04:03 (five months ago) link

that's the kind of screening I want to attend

Dan S, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:06 (five months ago) link

I just realized I've never seen any of his films on the big screen. Hopefully I'll be able to rectify that someday.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 05:10 (five months ago) link

To me "showing cycles of rage and affection" is something that makes it 1st tier. Can't say I know what you mean on the direction, probably because I don't quite know how to evaluate that stuff.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 06:42 (five months ago) link

The staging and framing are often A+; the writing too on-the-nose (probably one offscreen death too many).

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:27 (five months ago) link

I reckon he takes quite a lot of risks with that script, hence maybe why you feel it's on-the-nose.

It does feel like Bergman is doing a session of psychoanalysis and ends up breaking people lol.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 10:59 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

was Summer With Monika really the film that made US critics/audiences recognize that Sweden had a more sexually liberated culture? if so, that’s interesting

Dan S, Saturday, 6 July 2019 01:00 (four months ago) link

I loved Smiles of a Summer Night

Dan S, Saturday, 13 July 2019 23:31 (four months ago) link

That was a new one to me when I got the criterion set, and it's probably my favorite find, absolutely delightful.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, 14 July 2019 04:11 (four months ago) link

his best comedy - his only good comedy? the ones I've seen (Waiting Women and All These Women) are terrible

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 July 2019 05:16 (four months ago) link

Have never seen The Devils's Eye, is that a bad comedy too?

Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2), Sunday, 14 July 2019 08:51 (four months ago) link

I'd like to hear any review of The Devil's Eye, one of the very few classic period Bergmans I've not seen.

HIs birthday today - 101

Josefa, Sunday, 14 July 2019 14:22 (four months ago) link

three weeks pass...

wasn't expecting to love Wild Strawberries so much, seeing it again after decades

Dan S, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 00:58 (three months ago) link

three weeks pass...

have been re-reading the thread. I guess you could call Wild Strawberries ‘life-affirming’. I just really liked how much of a fantasia it was, mixing absurd real events, dreams, and memories in the protagonist’s path from withdrawal to engagement. Victor Sjöström was great in it

Dan S, Friday, 30 August 2019 23:17 (two months ago) link

thought To Joy was one of the strangest and most interesting of his early films

Dan S, Sunday, 1 September 2019 23:52 (two months ago) link

two weeks pass...

I enjoyed seeing the 60s Bergman films that are supposed to form a trilogy - Through a Glass Darkly, Winter Light, and The Silence.

According to Bergman “these three films deal with reduction: Through a Glass Darkly – conquered certainty; Winter Light – penetrated certainty; The Silence – God's silence, the negative imprint.”

They are very dark (The Silence also has a lot of humor), but they are all fantastic

Dan S, Friday, 20 September 2019 02:25 (one month ago) link

thought The Silence did seem somewhat Fellini-esque as flappy bird mentioned above, mostly the sections with the the child

Dan S, Friday, 20 September 2019 02:25 (one month ago) link

Those are coming up soon in my Bergman box. I haven't seen them in about 15 years, but I remember them all being brutally bleak.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 20 September 2019 02:28 (one month ago) link

they all seem to be focused on the acknowledgement of the silence of god, and the choices that the characters then have about how to live their lives: Through a Glass Darkly ultimately concluding that god is love amid the scenes of hopelessness; Winter Light, in which rational discussions of love for and belief in god and belief in human relationships reveal them to be problematic, with some hope ultimately offered for faith; The Silence, even further diminishing our confidence in faith but also maybe elevating it, offering of a huge ray of light with the character of Johan1

Dan S, Friday, 20 September 2019 02:45 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Ended up skipping over Persona, Hour of the Wolf, The Passion of Anna, and Cries and Whispers for the moment and watching Scenes from a Marriage, the theatrical version. The first time I saw it was as a teenager. It feels now like it was of its time, in a good way

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 00:47 (one month ago) link

Gotta do the long version, it's so good

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 5 October 2019 00:49 (one month ago) link

thinking I should, maybe will wait until I work my way through the rest of his films though. It does bring up for me the question of whether to watch the mini-series version or theatrical version of Fanny and Alexander

seeing this again a lot of its appeal is in the attractiveness of the two main characters, and I can now better relate to their worry about the reality of love, about the possibility of not having loved or been loved enough

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 00:57 (one month ago) link

It definitely hit me harder on my recent viewing than the previous one some 15 years ago. A big part of it is just their wonderful acting and all the long, long takes.

I prefer the theatrical F&A, it flows better, but both are worth watching.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:13 (one month ago) link

I probably say it a couple times a year on this board, but you NEED to watch the full cut of F&A.

Maria Edgelord (cryptosicko), Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:46 (one month ago) link

criterion channel does have both

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:52 (one month ago) link

really looking forward to seeing Persona again

Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:24 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

Cries and Whisper is intense, it feels like a culmination of his surreal psychosexual dramas

Dan S, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 01:10 (three weeks ago) link

I like Ebert’s description that the camera darts and falls back as if stunned, then in other scenes doesn’t look away when you want it to, focusing on the close-up with extreme impassivity

Dan S, Wednesday, 30 October 2019 04:27 (two weeks ago) link

not sure what I think of Face to Face as a film, but Liv Ullmann is an incredible force in it

“love surrounds everything, even death” is a good resolution

Dan S, Thursday, 7 November 2019 01:21 (one week ago) link

it is kind of amazing that he allows dream scenes to take over big segments of his films

Dan S, Thursday, 7 November 2019 02:07 (one week ago) link

Face to Face is second tier Bergman. I have trouble remembering it beyond Ullmann reaction shots (as ever).

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 November 2019 02:20 (one week ago) link

it feels like a lot of his characters even if they are tragic are willing/trying to support others

I love that about his films

Dan S, Thursday, 7 November 2019 02:29 (one week ago) link

The Serpent's Egg definitely seems like lesser Bergman

Dan S, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 00:07 (thirteen hours ago) link

It's the one film of his I couldn't be bothered to finish.

Cornelius Fondue (Matt #2), Tuesday, 19 November 2019 01:09 (twelve hours ago) link

Wild Strawberries is still my favorite of all of Bergman’s films. It is expansive and kind-hearted. It worries about the regrets we all have over the instances of rejection and distance that take place in the course of our lives but in the end it understands that compassion overrides everything. It is amazing that he made this when he was 39 years old

Dan S, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 02:28 (eleven hours ago) link


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