The Films of Alexander Payne - C/D

I think more and more that About Schmidt is one of the best Hollywood movies of the past decade or so.

Purported original ending to Election (I can't watch this right now, but it appears to be closer to the novel's):

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/05/thats_an_apolog.php

That's pretty awful, though it does underscore Tracy's vulnerability a bit more. How does the book end?

wow way more feel-good-y. actual ending is definitely funnier, if harsher.

see above, ie the novel's ending is at least superficially closer to this unused one

ive never been that big of a laura dern fan but damn does she own in citizen ruth -- "i slept in some dumpsters, maybe i slept on some babies"

yeah that movie kills imo but i think this little yupster is p dope even 'sideways' isnt that bad honestly

otm i like abt schmidt a lot more than most ppl do

so yeah he has that new george clooney movie coming out later this year

so yeah the trailer is like NPR Sense of Humor: The Movie

i know! i hope it's good anyway.

I saw that trailer the other day too and was disappointed to see Payne's name at the end. I like Election and Sideways a lot (About Schmidt, no).

I'm holding out hope, but I think at some point he's gonna need to address the super-whiteness of his oeuvre. I mean, he's the honkiest guy this side of Tim Burton.

what do you mean by "need to address the super-whiteness of his oeuvre"?

Ingmar Bergman had that problem too.

http://www2.alibris-static.com/cover/v44182t6433.jpg

the pilot for Hung is kind of my 2nd favorite Payne flick after Election

what do you mean by "need to address the super-whiteness of his oeuvre"

just that his films are really, really white-bread. i mean i get that he is chronicling some caucasian midwestern-ish shit, but his only prominent characters of color (that I can remember) are (1) an exotic asian love interest (2 ) a starving african boy. i'm not calling him out for racist or anything, just noting that there are, like, certain... omissions... in his work. like i said, he's no tim burton, but as adds more films to his résumé with almost exclusively white casts...

^^ but, most of his films are set in Omaha! Has diversity arrived there yet?

there is literally no way i can think of him addressing "the super-whiteness of his oeuvre" in a future film that would actually earn praise from remy so why bother

good one!

eh "write what you know," etc. It's one thing for me to implore Woody Allen to hang out with different kind of friends; it's another to recommend he cast Martin Lawrence.

ok fine I would recommend it

i think its kinda unfair to write sandra oh off as "exotic love interest"? but i dont disagree that it might be nice to see some ppl of color in these movies. also its one thing to have a white-ppl-only movie set in the midwest but if this movie about hawaii is as white as the trailers make it seem that wd be...... weird

ugh fuck sideways. i really love election + citizen ruth is a crazy film. i always think of this dude in terms of a "what happened?" narrative. maybe i should see about schmidt.

sandra oh was not an "exotic" love interest -- she was just a good-time gal as they say.

never watched the director's cut w/ "me love you long time" monologue eh

I guess my issue isn't with what he's doing/done in terms of career being abt. white people woes, it's that he's selected four books to adapt (Citizen Ruth is original, right?) and the six or seven lead parts in each of them – save his ex-wife's – are all pretty similar. Google tells me that Payne went to UCLA and lived in Spain, so I think it's a little disingenuous to claim he's just doing 'what he knows' b/c at some point in his European and Angeleno life he has to interact w/ a lot of different people.

Also I've enjoyed all five(?) of his films, to varying degrees.

Maybe his own knowledge of Spain is superficial...?

i dont care if his movies only have economically comfortable white people in them, i like lots of stories about economically comfortable white ppl

some of my best friends are economically comfortable white people

ah who am i kidding, all of them are

heard he's adapting the 'first world problems' meme into his next droll character study

when super-white whit stillman made a film about spain the results were not so great (at least compared to his other films)

white stillman, amirite

i think there is disagreement on that point, but barcelona is my least favorite stillman, too

spanish people are white btw

He got worse with each film.

o u last days of disco haters >:[

My grandfather's side of the family is Asturian, and they would be quite upset if you thought them non-white.

i like last days

i think "spain" represents something other than middle-america whitebread, i don't think anyone was claiming spaniards as people of color

oh i was just being annoying i love whit stillman! and movies about white people!

I would love to watch Alexander Payne's version of Othello

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rigenweb/stones1/StillmanWhite.jpg

^ whit stillman's grand uncle iirc

Othello, Nebraska:

Nick Nolte as Othello
Peter Fonda as Iago
Swoowie Kurtz as Desdemona
Jared Hess as Cassio
Conor Oberst as Rodrigo

^^^ would actually be the worst film ever made

i do think what i find irritating about sideways is treating white middle-class men's interest in wine and women who are prettier than they are as so fucking fascinating, but the white middle-class part is probably a red herring. i don't know to articulate what i dislike about that movie i'd probably have to watch it again and that's not going to happen.

whit stillman is way better than this guy. last days of disco 4e.

if you didn't enjoy last days of disco you should have just danced through it, it is jiving

lol now why tf would this alexander payne thread be going off on a quiet sunday afternoon

its raining outside!!!

raining racism

a torrential downpour of white privilege

icey who do u think is more racist: alexander payne or paul simon?

i said he made white films for white people, people objected, we caviled, nobody had much heart or stake so the discussion crawled under the jungle gym where it's sullenly drawing in the dirt with a stick

blame it on the payne

haha

Hey, that's my stick.

fwiw i don't object to the assertion that his movies are largely populated with and consumed by omg white people, i just feel like singling this one guy out (i guess because most of the comparable contemporaries are commercially successful enough that studios think it necessary to shoehorn a sassy black friend into their flicks) for the "super-whiteness of his oeuvre" is kind of a loaded and strangely tacky way to address the generally complex and worthwhile subject of race in contemporary film

although i guess we can tackle the insufficiency of his writing for female characters by saying his movies are mega-penile or something

superwhite mega-penile

the milieu depicted in the film is obnoxious, but i remember enjoying sideways and thinking it was pretty funny.

i didn't mean to turn you on, alfred

i'm nothing if not loaded and tacky, it's true

http://jkrbooks.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451af1569e2010535d69fd7970c-800wi

"Remember when I asked that black guy if he liked Sideways?"-Liz Lemon, hyperwhite.

like it's a good point, some dude, that AP's no worse than a lot of his peers. but there's something more blatant? tossed-off? about race, society, gender, whatever, in payne's films that is espesh irksome to me. david lynch as well. just a casually all-white cast in movies that are supposed to be about, you know, the all-caps American experience.

feel like paynes films are p blatantly abt 'white culture' - like i somewhat give them a pass for their verisimilitude - not that its not in some sense stylized and ott - theyre just you know v observant and cutting - tho i dont doubt that irl thered be more not white people living the lyfe depicted in the films

let's go through his movies and pick out the characters that should clearly have been played by actors of color

should prob have its own board tbh

i love black payne

but you don't understand, that's the name of my dog

http://nyc3img.soundclick.com/27/images/b/band/blackpayne.jpg?version=107

http://c2.ac-postto.myspacecdn.com/postto01/1/3d44e284aadc4e5cac47ed800fcf199a/s.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fGX28fcdCsI/TbiZ3H7OZiI/AAAAAAAAVug/A-NjuHEdHIc/s1600/Tyler-Perrys-House-of-Payne.jpg

lol

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6136/6019991227_7b34110b5d.jpg via flickr

:D

lol

http://videogum.com/310102/being-white-is-hard-the-descendants-trailer-you-guys/movies/trailer/

Jeb | Posted on May 26th

Alexander Payne is white people’s answer to Tyler Perry.

that looks good!

srsly?

hey i like this guys movies what can i say

has clooney ever played an earnest sad sack before?

Solaris? Up in the Air?

Michael Clayton?

I mean, that's what he does now. He's the new menopausal William Holden.

i liked sideways, not sure why it seems to make people so mad. i havent seen it since it came out though

i think i'm the only person it made mad itt. lots of reviewers loved it.

not that i saw it, but wasn't clooney a superconfident jerk in up in the air?

icey, no, i love sideyways but this doesn't look good!

not that i saw it, but wasn't clooney a superconfident jerk in up in the air?

― horseshoe, Sunday, August 7, 2011 11:01 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark

mostly but SPOILER he becomes sad ;_; by the end

haha fuck that movie afaic

i didn't see the movies alfred listed but this character reads as more of a "loser" than those other roles

the pilot for Hung is kind of my 2nd favorite Payne flick after Election

― Autism Alamac (some dude), Sunday, August 7, 2011 3:26 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

hung was surprisingly solid for that first season

surprisingly solid

lol

i think i'm the only person it made mad itt. lots of reviewers loved it.

not that i saw it, but wasn't clooney a superconfident jerk in up in the air?

― horseshoe, Sunday, August 7, 2011 11:01 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i've done this elsewhere on ilx but god do i hate this movie.

yeah lots of people hate it because they h8 hilarious things

h8 u, for example

lol pwn?

i actually like barcelona a lot, possibly more than metropolitan. sideways is possibly the only time my objection to a movie has been I Hate These Characters And Hope They Die. like, not the only time that's ever happened, but the only time it was a problem. i dunno.

the characters in the descendants are white because they are the titular descendants of missionaries, apparently, not that i know who else is in it or if they're unwhite or played by rob schneider or what.

a man flopping impotently down the street in a pair of boat shoes after having just learned that his wife cheated on him.

lol

really like the short that closes Paris Je t'aime, I think it's called 14 Arrondissement.

about shidt

so apparently there is/was a japanese remake of sideways, "saidoweizu"

it's still set mostly in the US

http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt1236373/

Just noticed that there's a screening of Nebraska here in a couple of weeks, with Payne introducing. It looks a little like The Straight Story from reading a description.

He sure does like road trip movies, doesn't he? Skeptical of this, because I only really like his first two movies. But I do like Bruce Dern, so maybe...

Surprising Alexander Payne fact of the day: He co-wrote Jurassic Park 3.

And that Adam Sandler gay marriage comedy.

seeing it this week

might want a few "xposts" there Morbs

If any NYers are burning to see Nebraska tomw night, my scheduled guest can't go...

meh, a real mixed bag. Good performances (Stacy Keach!); better than About Schmidt, at least.

People are going overboard w/ the "condescending" stuff tho; I'm sure there's human waste like this on display on the Great Plains. And in Jersey.

I don't bet the naysayers would disagree. It's just: do they belong in movies?

Of course they do. I don't think Payne hates Nebraskans more than Altman hates Nasvillians.

Not to mention a crtic I respect writing that Dern's character has Alzheimers when um, he is explicitly described as not having it.

"He believes what people tell him" has metaphorical heft too, I think.

Oh for sure I'm going into this with reasonably high hopes that this will finally be the Payne movie that brings him back to his '90s greatness. But any comparisons to that piece of shit About Schmidt, even favorable against it, don't bode well.

Election is as smarmy in its own way as anything he's done since.

As usual there isn't a Payne film the NYT won't love or compare to Sturges.

btw Will Forte resembles a less glam gr8080

Election is the good kind of smarmy tho; straight satire without pretense to sympathy.

God, that movie is genuinely merciless.

the novel is less so, and better for it.

This ought to be a teaching moment, but no, we'll settle for

http://www.gurl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/west-wing-wrong.gif

for a movie in 1999 starring Reese Witherspoon and Matthew Broderick it's as mean as I want it to be.

Labuza is right that the digital B&W in Nebraska looks wonky... rumors of postproduction conversion from color?

well Eric, you'll just hafta tell me if June Squibb is representative of any sour old Midwestern ladies.

The woman (amateur actor) who plays the owner of the town newspaper is ace btw.

I'm sure I'll have met and am related to women like Squibb. Hell, I probably am a woman like Squibb.

I started out liking her cemetery monologue, then thought it went too far, then felt it went just fine.

I've had poops like that.

you ARE a dirty grandma.

Byron couldn't have said it more graciously.

Like a nylon lemon poop.

the It's his best! It's his worst! roundup:

http://www.fandor.com/blog/daily-nyff-2013-alexander-paynes-nebraska

Flitted btwn finding this touching and condescending/over-egged, so I guess I land somewhere in the middle. June Squibb steals the movie, no question.

It was handed to her.

i thought this worked, it's not great but i didnt get condescending @ all. payne is good at tone generally imo & framing p base truths w/o harping on them too strongly as to ruin them

boy this was crap.

this starts incredibly poorly; closely resembles 1990s 16mm student experimentation; is somehow mainly trained on the guy who presumably fills in paul rudd's like ice age 3 voicework while rudd is busy; & yeah is non-stop condescending to the very thing that seems to motivate payne to make films. but i think it overcomes a lot of this, & by the end is i guess fine, failing at what it maybe most aimed to be but succeeding as a kind of '90s Jarmuschian road trip flick. Dern's performance isn't tidy enough to comment about, but there are some very nuanced, kind of masterly moments, like his disengagement at the graveyard. others, like the restaurant applause, rub our face a lil too closely into what could've been affecting. it mystifies me how payne, now, can get so close to the raw material of a good film & fuck it up (the performances are mainly bad, including squibb for the first twenty minutes, & then intermittently good), & even only really tend to his muse in such a boring way - romantic, rolling landscape shots, a bank the only momentarily convincing punctum reminding us of contemporary life. but for the last half i wasn't concentrating on these things, & aesthetic objections shouldn't get too upfront, here, if the thing underneath was penetrating enough.

I don't think I've ever used the cliche "Anybody can play this part." Well, here now I will. Stacy Keach could have played Woody Grant. Will Forte will play him in twenty years; maybe he'll get Oscar notice too.

and god it's so condescending to film A MOVIE ABOUT NEBRASKA in B&W.

otm. did you read the new yorker profile? iirc he splits his time between somewhere midwestern & maybe l.a., & i am struggling not to imagine him perched at some glossy sidewalk café in california writing broad-brush caricature porn about midwesterners & their dumb conversations. i ought to watch that sweet short he made again, to compare, but i feel like he's so excluded himself from the handful of directors, leigh, cassavetes, van sant, who can confer any humanity or complexity on their working-class subjects. a lot of the characters reminded me of the like "dumb kid" in the descendants - bad performances riding stereotypes with minimal evident purpose.

i liked the gag where the camera pans a little to the right and stacey keach is singing "In The Ghetto"

shittily-sung kareoke as the How Folks Spend Their Time scene felt like the the condescension ne plus ultra here

discreet shot of Tricuits in aunt's kitchen is the ne plus buttra

oh it was cheap... but still funny. nice details in the set design too, like will forte's apartment's fridge having a jimmy john's - we deliver! magnet on it

conspicuously large tombstone in graveyard had PAYNE on it. would like to know how much of himself + his family is in this

no that's true & how they gave bruce dern a hat at the end that said CAPITALISM on it & the cartoonist from the onion comic strip popped up in the bottom right to wink

nice.

this wasnt as good as a kelly comic, i'll admit

just read that cranston auditioned for forte's role and apparently "I don't think he's right for the part," Payne said, "but he's an astonishing actor, that guy." yeah ok homie

thought odenkirk was v good

he and Forte match up as bros, and Odenkirk's "Breaking Bad" mannerisms suit him here.

can we agree that woman who ran the newspaper was great?

Yes -- best performance.

whoever does paynes casting should be lauded imo

A review.

uh, Jon Voight is the paraplegic in Coming Home

Dern's signature '70s parts are Smile and Black Sunday imho.

yeah corrected.

I haven't seen Smile in yeeeears and am not confident enough to about my judgment then.

Saw Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte just last week, which all centers around his early exit. He's been around a long time.

he is killed in a flashback in Marnie

Takes maybe half-an-hour to find its footing, but in the end I liked Nebraska fine. I think the obvious complaint against it would be that it was conceived before it was felt; Alexander Payne has seen The Straight Story and Paris, Texas and Harry and Tonto, and he wanted to make a film like that. (He tried once already, right? I forgot About Schmidt the minute it ended--this attempt's much better, I think.) That aside--and maybe the too-ordinary performance by Will Forte; funny people sometimes rein themselves in till there's nothing left--many moments I'll take away from this. High on the list: the last five minutes, the newspaper lady, Dern's wife giving the rest of the family what for. Liked the soundtrack a lot.

jeezus, the last 5 minutes is crazy obvious; it feels written by a test screening.

I'm not sure what kind of surprise ending you were looking for. It was no more or less obvious than the ending of The Straight Story. (The really obvious ending would have been--well, I won't say, but I'm sure you can fill in the blank there.)

Would've been OK if the endings for Nebraska and The Last Stand had been swapped.

I'd have settled for "I'm not buying you an air compressor, Dad, I don't have the money."

I saw it on Christmas Day with a young Chinese lady. We were trying to see Her, but it was sold out. Afterwards, she asked me, "What is a compressor?"

As a midwesterner with these folks as relatives, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Was surprised at how much I liked Will Forte in this, but I think this is Payne's worst by some distance. If it weren't for Kristen Scott-Thomas comparing her son's cocks in Only God Forgives, June Squibb flashing the grave of her ex would have been the most embarrassing scene of 2013.

i think the descendants was worse, maybe. neither of them was particularly good or bad IMO. payne mostly inspires shrugs chez moi.

apparently payne had to work really hard to get bruce dern not to overact in every scene.

apparently sometimes he would actually film him in what were, ostensibly, moments in between takes just so he could get reaction shots of him where he wasn't doing business or mugging

<-- this from horse's mouth

i think they say something similar about kaurismaki, too, that he'll secretly shoot what are ostensibly dry runthroughs to get readings as affectless as possible

jeez, i sound like the "apparently kid"

i think they say something similar about kaurismaki, too, that he'll secretly shoot what are ostensibly dry runthroughs to get readings as affectless as possible

― schlump, Sunday, October 26, 2014 12:46 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

malick did this a lot on the new world, probably his more recent films as well. but in payne's case it's not a general strategy, just an attempt to get some reaction shots of dern where he wasn't mugging. i do like dern as an actor, but here he's playing a guy who's living mostly in his head, and you'd have to say that for that sort of role he's definitely being cast against type..

http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/bullied-by-oscar-winner-on-movie-set

Alexander Payne‘s long-in-the-works “Downsizing” has been handed a big holiday release date of December 22, 2017. The high concept movie stars Matt Damon, Kristen Wiig, Christoph Waltz, Alec Baldwin, Neil Patrick Harris, Jason Sudeikis, and Hong Chau and follows an Omaha man in the not-too-distant future where humans are now able to shrink themselves to 1/8 their size as a means to battle over-consumption and the rapid depletion of earth’s natural resources. He decides to undergo the process himself, and joins others who have done the same.

http://theplaylist.net/alexander-paynes-downsizing-coming-december-2017-mission-impossible-6-arrives-2018-20161109/

Sweet jesus, this sounds awful:

http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2017/09/downsizing.html

Classic for Nebraska, Citizen Ruth and Election. I could take or leave the rest

Nebraska was terrible. The other two are great ... his only great films.

Was wondering what Payne was up to and it turns out he was right up to the point of shooting a road movie for Netflix based onMy Saga until Karl Ove Knausgard pulled the rights at the last minute.

Jesus, I just saw this. Terrible. The only instance of test audiences forcing the filmmakers to shoot a new, correct ending?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhezOPupmj4

RIP Election's, Jessica Campbell (Tammy Metzler), 38

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jessica-campbell-election-star-dies-at-38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqpGy-DxPF0

Checking her imdb, two things astounded me: How few credits she had (six total: a tv movie when she was a kid, Election; two eps of Freaks...; The Safety of Objects; a short film; and what I assume was an unreleased feature called Junk from 2002), and that she was two days younger than me, which means she was 15 when filming Election, and 16 when she was Tuba Girl.

that is weird.... only SIX?

I noticed that Payne's wiki has a "2017–2022: Career slump" header and a "2023–present: Resurgence" header. New one is getting a pretty positive reception.

Didn't realize he was originally on board to direct "The Menu."

The trailer, no surprise, looks dreadful.

I did like the very 70s voiceover for the trailer.

No one else will bother to see The Holdovers, so: not very good. The Killer is heavy-handed not-very-good, Priscilla is lifeless not-very-good, The Holdovers is clunky not-very-good.

anyone do the daily framed.wtf quiz?
I'm inordinately annoyed that the last few were "Brought to you by The Holdovers, in cinemas now..." and they were Election, About Schmidt, Nebraska (which I remember quite liking but immediately forgot) and The Descendants. I think they'd already had Downsizing some time ago.

I saw Nebraska on an airplane this year, thought it was hilarious.

I did bother to see it, FWIW there clemenza. A minor/gets-a-pat-on-the-head effort, but certainly not great; a better movie would have actually gone further with Da'Vine Joy Randolph's character rather than essentially having her disappear for a good chunk of the closing half and I rather suspect Payne would have been more comfortable with just the other two leads. Atmosphere was excellent in general, though, it gets a quiet holiday mood well, and the blend of original score and choice of songs helped.

Found that blend a little meandering--rather he'd gone for an imaginative period soundtrack. Although, going by the oft-used Chambers Brothers and Cat Stevens (two things I like anyway), he probably didn't have that in him.

I should mention a couple of wall hangings I liked, both of which I remembered from the time: the W.C. Fields poster and the MLK wall tapestry (there was a matching JFK, I'm pretty sure, but can't find images of either).

Atmosphere was excellent in general, though, it gets a quiet holiday mood well

this is what i was curious about tbh. i don't expect this to be good, but i think spending 90m [edit: the film is 133 minutes] in christmastime '70s boarding school wouldn't be the worst and maybe even charming

Probably what I was hoping for, something like Bill Forsyth's Comfort and Joy (the tagline for Payne's film is "Discomfort and Joy," which may or may not be coincidental). But the two male leads are thoroughly unlikeable (each tells the other that everyone at the school hates them--typical of each, also true), and the lead is in mourning twice over. Hard to get there from here.

"lead female"

I was hoping for, something like Bill Forsyth's Comfort and Joy (the tagline for Payne's film is "Discomfort and Joy," which may or may not be coincidental).

Probably coincidental, as both that title and tag are inspired by the refrain of the traditional Christmas Carol "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen".

Tidings of...I knew that, and probably yes (with a slight chance of probably both).

No one else will bother to see The Holdovers

Weird assumption to make about a movie that's largely gotten very good reviews and heralded as a return to form for Payne. It was the first runner-up for the audience award at TIFF and has been touted for Oscar nominations. I'm planning to see it eventually.

i saw this tonight, it's a very sweet story

(xpost) That was referring to here, ILX, perhaps unduly influenced by the preponderance of negative commentary past Election when Payne's name comes up.

I love Election, liked Sideways a lot, liked Nebraska. The Holdovers probably will get AA nominations, primarily, I'd say, because it's the kind of film that gets AA nominations. I think there's an attempt to recapture some of Sideways and Nebraska's mood, but for me it falls well short.

133 minutes!!

Nebraska is my favorite of his films that I've seen. A lot of the credit should go to the screenwriter though I think.

For what it's worth, the screening I was at--rep theatre, maybe 20% smaller than a Cineplex--was packed.

Weirdly enough, despite not liking any Payne post Election, and not actually holding Hal Ashby in any particular reverence, this is a movie that I'm not actually dreading that much this Oscar season ... at least not compared to Maestro or The Color Purple (or Killers of the Flower Moon)

(Also, related, American Fiction felt like a Sideways redux that actually worked.)

Just seen The Holdovers... This was so bland and dull. The script is predictable and sickly sentimental, and the film is way overlong.

Yay!

(for some reason it's only just been released this weekend in the UK, missing the Christmas tie-in)

I feel like I know exactly what this movie will be like and am not interested in finding out if that’s true.

Occurred to me after I posted above: John Houseman comes up with a much better (unforgettable; Giamatti is instantly forgettable) portrayal of academic superciliousness in The Paper Chase.

I like that The Holdovers tried to recreate the visual and emotional experience of watching popular US film in the early 70s, with its fetishization of exclusivity and youth

I think Giamatti gives a more heartfelt and memorable performance than Houseman did in The Paper Chase to be honest

Yeah, clem, I'm with Orson Welles -- Houseman oozes falsity in so many roles, the sort of guy who sells "Britishness": an ersatz class.

Not sure if heartfelt mixes well with superciliousness, but for me, not even close; Houseman could not be more perfect in that role.

I'm still seeing the trailer for The Holdovers on TV--I guess it's gone into wider release before the Academy Awards. The one part when Giamatti calls out "That's a detention! That's another detention!" like he's in The Breakfast Club, god that makes me cringe. (Knocking the film, not the many people who like it; it's the kind of film I could have easily ended up liking.)

As I posted once on Facebook, it was my lifelong dream to give this speech to a grade 3 class on the first day of school. Just never got around to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLW7v3s7KQ

The Holdovers has actually become a small hit.

I mean, The Boys in the Boat has outgrossed it twice over, so let's not focus too hard on B.O.

it doesn't stink, no

I know I was overdue to not hate a Payne film, and also overdue to like boomer nostalgia, so let me complete the in-a-blue-moon hat trick by saying I enjoyed this more than any single Hal Ashby film I've ever seen.

I liked it but I'm not mr. smart movie guy or anything

Me neither, it turns out. I even found a lot to like about Nyad this evening.

I liked ]Nyad, it is a very watchable film and Annette Bening's and Jodie Foster's performances are both just about perfect

Since Payne hasn't directed anything in several years and has dropped out of quite a few projects, I think it's good if he gets a solid hit out of a "safe" one, just to get his career moving and (hopefully) pull together the clout needed to make something that's been stuck in limbo. Before this, he hadn't had a hit, critical or commercial, in a full decade.

It's weird being in the target demographic for The Holdovers - total cinema comfort food, very-good-but-not-great and as mentioned earlier - sometimes an imaginary Hal Ashby movie is better than the real thing.

i know that it aims exactly for this, but it doesnt do anything that a prestige young ryan o neal vehicle wouldnt in terms of the higher brow effort, and it falls some way short of giving us anything too piercing in terms of interactions between the younger cast caricatures

i thought it was pleasant but theres a reason this guy directs half-interesting swipes at rich america that i only bother to catch when stuck for something to watch

watched half of the Holdovers on the plane, do not feel moved to watch the rest. I have *hever* that I can remember not liked a Payne movie, and what I like about them is that there's a kind of sharpness to them, they don't go down easy -- this one, well, "cinema comfort food" is a good description. The group of holdover kids were a curated bunch of types like the Bad News Bears, except, again, without the sharpness of the (original) Bad News Bears.

Now that I think of it, what I really wish is that Payne, rather than Richard Linklater, had made the Bad News Bears reboot. That might have been good. Is Giamatti actor enough to play Buttermaker?

I think Giamatti gives a more heartfelt and memorable performance than Houseman did in The Paper Chase to be honest

― Dan S, Saturday, January 20, 2024 6:27 PM (four weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

The best-ever 70s-style performance of dead-inside old man academic is Donald Sutherland in Animal House. Anybody can play "doesn't fuck, sad and alone, can't exist in the world of grownups" what's hard is playing "fucks but is still sad and alone and can't exist in the world of grownups"

The group of holdover kids were a curated bunch of types like the Bad News Bears, except, again, without the sharpness of the (original) Bad News Bears.

not trying to convince you to watch the rest of the movie if you weren't into the beginning, but the "group of holdover kids" becomes irrelevant to the plot fairly early on (though i guess after you stopped watching)

Just saw the trailer for The Bad News Bears because i've never seen it. I guess it, er.. doesn't get shown on tv much these days.

There are reasons, but the heart of the movie is very warm and true, I recommend watching it (original of course)

bad news bears rules *canonically* ie it is fact, also it belongs to a time that no longer exists & that is part of why it is so great.

See also: Breaking Away

otm! THE BEST

Glad Da'Vine Joy Randolph won Best Supporting Actress at the BAFTAs this weekend. Deserves the Oscar as well.

I think it's great she's getting these well deserved kudos but I still get a real sense that Payne simply didn't know what to do with the character at a certain point and essentially dumped her off at her sis's for a good chunk of the movie's latter half. Part of me was all "Kinda wish I could hang around here more!" (Unintentional but instructive comparison would be how American Fiction dwells on layers of grief in a Black American family; obviously the focus and intent of the two films differs but, you know...)

I saw both within days of each other and loved having the Boston-and-environs pairing.

Thought this was okay, but it just reminded me about how great Election is (never have seen Citizen Ruth, need to correct that).

Payne simply didn't know what to do with the character at a certain point

Is there any reporting that he excised a fully-integrated co-lead from half the film because he personally disagreed or didn’t identify with her conception or presentation? Given Payne’s past efforts to sideline screenwriters, one presumes that he would have taken a writing credit if he made such a significant change.

Citizen Ruth v good.

Thought this was okay, but it just reminded me about how great Election is

I think that's easily his best film and so far the only one he's made that I'd call a great film. There's something to like about all of his films, and he definitely had the benefit of marquee stars later on, but at this point, I want to say he's an excellent writer and a fine director who's never really lived up to the potential suggested I would have guessed from Election.

It's too bad Downsized was so difficult to make and may have seriously hindered his chances at making more ambitious films in the future. The critical reception was polarizing for good reason - on the one hand, the scale of its ambition, from the more inventive (sci-fi) bits of the film to the scope of its ideas, were all commendable. It's the type of thing I'd like to see from a filmmaker in terms of stepping out and expanding their comfort zone. But unfortunately the conception or the execution was fatally flawed, particularly the socioeconomic ideas that come across as vaguely researched rather than edifying or even understood. (Too many moments seem to lean on misguided stereotypes.)

Anyway, in his defense, I'll also add that he's really great at setting up all of his films when it comes time to make them - everything from the casting to the locations in The Holdovers is impeccable, and as expected he was heavily involved in that. (Casting in particular took a long time - the lead child actor never acted on camera before and even after he was cast, Payne knew he'd need some instruction in that regard.)

*potential I would have guessed from Election

i haven't seen any of his movies between sideways and the holdovers, but it seems like after election he moved from making movies about anger to movies about sadness. which is fine, but anger has a lot more energy/drive than sadness. there's just so much simmering tension and resentment throughout election that gives it a spark.

i think sideways his best

@eephus- rather strangely after reading your post, but while writing mine above i actually did wonder whether i wouldnt much rather have seen linklaters holdovers

It was called EVERYBODY WANTS SOME!

OK not really but then again sort of

lol - that is a great, underappeciated film though.

I caught this in a small but surprisingly full theater over the weekend. Had to sit almost directly under the screen but it was fine. I thought it was thoroughly enjoyable and the people I was with, who ranged in age from 12 to 80, all enjoyed it as well. Maybe even better than Nebraska.

Seen The Holdovers and liked it quite a lot more than I expected, very good; seen Sideways today and it's fucking great, back when it came out I seen a bunch of boring old middle class people saying it was a boring old middle class white guy movie, so I avoided it, but it's a lot of fun. Shit on newsnight review, I can't believe I trusted you.

Never heard of Alexander Payne until this year but it turns out I've seen most of his films! I might seek out the other ones.

the bowling scene in the holdovers was filmed in my hometown! shoutout to the wakefield bowladrome.

nice movie, i enjoyed it a lot on the lead performances alone.

agreed, all 3 of the main performer's work felt effortless.

This seems pretty damning

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/the-holdovers-accused-plagiarism-luca-writer-1235935605/

Frisco script is here.

Read the first 40 pages and not seeing much, other than cynical, wise-cracking central character thrown together with 15 year old.

Some of the “line by line transpositions” in that document are a real stretch

Note that: 1. The scene begins with Paul/Wills in a library/quiet carriage 2. Paul/Wills is doing something relaxing, andhas a mug/cup. 3. The third action line sentence consists of Paul/Willis performing two body-based actions. 4. Paul/Wills' fist line is an exclamation that features a religious-based curse. 5. The surprise means he will be stuck alone with Angus/Amy. 6. The physical mechanism by which this occurs is a mode of transport train/helicopter).

yeah my kid read all of this to me out loud yesterday and it sounds bad until you actually read the details. 'line by line' is an utterly false statement.

I might seek out the other ones.

I still say it's all downhill after Election but yes, there's a lot worth seeing.

This seems pretty damning

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/the-holdovers-accused-plagiarism-luca-writer-1235935605/

― Piedie Gimbel, Sunday, 10 March 2024 4:52 AM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i’m guessing you didn’t read it

I liked Sideways better than Election.
I remember disliking parts of About Schmidt but at the time I was pretty sick of that whole indie film/comics aesthetic of glum guys staring at the screen. Kathy Bates had a decent part in it.

didnt realise he was about schmidt

maybe the most vapid message ive ever seen in a movie

Sense of place, sense of character, sense of humor, sense of tragedy of failed lives: he knows what he's doing, if these things matter to a viewer. Knows it on the level of Chekhov in Sideways, The Descendants, and The Holdovers.

Note how the two scenes unfold on a near line-by-line basis:
1. Paul/Wills is working in his room/on the ward.
2. A messenger interrupts him to tell him his boss wants him.
3. Paul/Wills self-importantly tells the messenger to tell his boss he is busy.
4. The messenger tells Paul/Willis he actually must go now.
5. Paul/Wills reluctantly acquiesce

These are all like unbelievably stock scenes that you can find “line by line transpositions” of in films from the 1920s. I almost feel worse for this guy than I would if his movie really had been plagiarized, the deeper you go into detailed examples the more sad/pathetic it seems. Payne-esque, even!

Yeah at first I was willing to give it credence because he's not just a random loon but an actual produced screenwriter, but the more you see it it's ridiculous.

Paul/Wills is called to adventure.
Paul/Wills refuses the call.
Paul/Wills embarks on a road of trials.

The but where he’s like “clearly they used software to do this” 🫣

Also is the character called fucking Wills or Willis, in the holdovers the guy has the same name all the way thru

The Plagiarism Today blog has a thoughtful backgrounder on this:
https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2024/03/11/why-the-holdovers-is-not-a-plagiarism/

Though it contains a qualifier of note:

My Analysis

Note: I have not seen The Holdovers nor have I read Frisco. This analysis is based solely on the allegations provided by Stephenson and the follow ups shared by other screenwriters.

Saw "The Holdovers." I thought it was really well directed and acted, but the story and writing ultimately didn't transcend its more familiar/predictable beats.

Yeah my take too. Also nice to see snow, albeit in a movie.

I keep thinking of him saying "your toes would curl!"