Pit Bulls: What's the appeal?

http://www.furryfriendsfoundation.com/Truth03/photos/love_monster-T4.jpg

My sister has one. We've had many dogs in our family, and I've never encountered a more well-behaved and loving dog. A long time ago, German Shepherds were the scapegoat - then Dobermans, Rotties and now Pits.

And they're adorable and fun.

These little ones belong to erstwhile Killing Joke bassist, Paul Raven, who raises them.

http://www.netacc.net/~davedz/2001_newsletter/2001_page_06/page_06_r2_c2.jpg

...and then do something like this to ya...

http://www.bigcats.org/abc/images/pitbiteIII.jpg

Some dogs are dog-aggressive and some are people-aggressive. These traits are not limited to one breed by any means. The problem is that when a pit is people-aggressive, it can do a lot of damage, because it is so strong. The important thing is to spend time with the dog before adopting it, and to take obedience classes with it so that it can learn to socialize.

I myself had a chunk taken out of my leg by a Fox Terrier.

At one time, it was the most popular dog in the US. Petey from the Little Rascals was a pit. So was Nipper, the RCA dog. And Sergeant Stubby was a WWI hero. Also, pits worked at the World Trade Center site after 9/11. They're used as police and therapy dogs.

Keep in mind their violent track record is akin to that rash in kidnappings last year that the media created. Any large working dog can be made dangerous by years of neglect and abuse.

Dyson, I hope that eventually the owners were held accountable for their irresponsibility in owning such an aggressive dog. Those sort of dogs (of ANY breed) should be put down, and their owners deserve punishment.

(xp again)

heh. this thread is, of course, "the anecdotal evidence thread."

PIT: Spot of tea, good chap?

GEAR: Thanks, Pitty.

PIT: Anytime.

See?

Violent families = abuse of animals = bad dogs.

The pit bulls I've met at our local offleash park have all been very sweet, and have played nicely with my dog. I imagine dog-fighters and thugs who breed for aggression don't frequent the park very much.

I have been charged by a completely insane pitbull on a chain, in front of a club, held by a (white) THUG. I bet that dog could've bit me but GOOD.

Neither pro nor con, but Big Boi from Outkast breeds them... http://www.pitfallkennels.com/

I have no idea why anyone would want one of these animals. I'm not sure if this is correct, but I think of pit butll owners the same way I think about Hummer drivers - sure you can but why? And is it responsible?

Also, keep in mind that many news reports of 'pit bull attacks' involve dogs that are not actually pit bulls. In one case on my local news, the dog looked more like a German Shepherd.

People adopt them because they're supposed to be badass or something:
http://www.pitfallkennels.com/images/BIgBoiCover.jpg

I guess when they attack you or puncture your baby's eye, then they prove their worth

Searched the web for "Doberman attack". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 492

Searched the web for "german shepherd attack". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 141

Searched the web for "pitbull attack". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 478

Searched the web for "poodle attack". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 31

Your search - "chow-chow attack" - did not match any documents.

okay. there's 3 breeds right there you should require a licence to own then.
(also the media slant agains pitbulls doesn't seem so apparent to me here).

Searched the web for "pit-bull attack". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,900

damned vicious media¡

Some pits are ill tempered, some aren't - like a lot of people. You may say that not many people have mauled other people, but well, you'd be wrong there, too. I have a 6 year old son and two pit-mixes - who are the most gentle, goofiest dogs I have ever encountered. (And I've had lots of dogs). Sure pits have a terrible reputation, and I admit that when my ex picked the first one out of the pound, I said no fucking way, but with the right training, guidance and love, they're just amazing dogs.

(The only dog I have ever been bitten by was a chow).

(major xpost)

Listen, I'm sure most Pit-bulls are very sweet. But yeah, jerks who want to be tough/look tough adopt them and have those awful chains on them and then walk them on the street and scare the sh*t out of people. So, I automatically think they're awful. If I were choosing a dog, I'd rule out pit-bulls automatically because I don't want to be associated with that kind of ego/sadism. I'm sure pit-bull owners are aware of the stigma they're attaching to themselves and I guess it's a testament to the animals that they're willing to endure that.

Results 1 - 10 of about 17,000

I rest my case. (OK, a lot of that is actually stuff about the Queen, but still.)

Bull terriers, on the other hand, rock. They're generally very nice and really cool looking. I'm glad that target has brought them back into fashion to obliterate the memory of Spuds.

A: First it is important to know that Staffordshire Terrier and Pit Bull are not official breeds. They are common terms used to describe a certain type of dog. There are actually three breeds that can be easily confused. The correct designations are:

The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) - Recognized by the ADBA and UKC
The American Staffordshire Terrier (AmStaff or AST) - Recognized by the AKC
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier (StaffyBull or SBT) - Recognized by the AKC

They are essentially the same dogs but have been bred for a different purpose and/or size standard since the mid 30's. Some are even duel registered. Pete the Pup from "The little Rascals" was among the first APBTs to be registered with the AKC as an Amstaff.

How can we make the difference? We can't really. We can only try to guess the breed based on some very subtle factors that may differentiate them. Note that even experts can't always tell if a Pit Bull is an APBT, an AST or a SBT

The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT)
The APBT is bred for performance above everything else. The breeders usually focus on the working aspect of the breed, and unfortunately for many breeders that means specifically pit fighting. Therefor, many APBTs are bred primarily for their fighting abilities and for certain physical characteristics that will ensure good performance in the pit (mouth, air, stamina, etc.). Some are also bred for the characteristic called gameness.

Because performance is the most important trait, less consideration is given to conformation (this refers to how closely the dog matches a set physical standard for the breed). You may see APBTs as little as 30 Lbs and as big as 100 Lbs. In general though, the APBTs bred for the pit are usually less than 70 Lbs.

Not all APBT breeders breed for the pit. Some breed for conformation, temperament, weight-pulling, obedience trials, therapy work, etc. The foundation of their bloodlines however, has most likely been tested in the pit and kept the physical and mental characteristics of the pit dogs; Lean and athletic body, agility, intensity, drive, etc.

Cropped ears are not an indicator of the dog's background. Some dogs bred for the pit have cropped ears, some don't. Show dogs often have cropped ears, both with the APBT and the AST, but not always. Some dog fighters prefer cropped ears, some don't.

Today, you will find that a lot of people are breeding Pit Bulls for nothing in particular, or just to be pets, or for protection, or to make a quick buck. In general, these dogs are a little larger than the original APBT. Most of them have stable disposition and make excellent companions. Unfortunately some backyard bred dogs may be born with terrible temperament and human-aggressive tendencies because unknowledgeable individuals who don't make temperament a priority, are allowed to breed dogs. This is true of any breeds by the way, not just the APBT.

The American Staffordshire Terrier (AmStaff)
The AmStaff (or AST) used to be the same dog as the APBT but was taken out of the pit in the mid 30s. AKC opened its stud books to a few APBTs that fit a standard they had chosen, and came up with the name Staffordshire Terrier. In early 1970s the name was changed to American Staffordshire Terrier, to avoid any confusion with a breed called "Staffordshire Bull Terrier" from England that was also recognized by the AKC.

AmStaffs are now primarily bred for conformation and temperament. They have a set height standard and usually weigh between 50-80 Lbs. They may be a little stockier than the APBT, but not always.

Since they share the same ancestors as the APBT (some are even dual registered), AST and APBT not only share the same look, they also have similar personalities. Dog-aggression is a potential trait in both breeds although not as strong and common in the AST than its close cousin the APBT. AmStaffs are very dominant dogs though, and just like the APBT they often have a threatening and intimidating look. That look and dominant attitude could trigger an hostile reaction from other dogs and result in a fight.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier (Stafford, Staffies or SBT)
Staffies are a little less common in the U.S. but remain very popular in England. They also share the same ancestors as the APBT and AST. They are much smaller though, about 15 to 40 Lbs max and their ears are rarely cropped. They are essentially bred for good disposition and conformation. They are often referred to as "nanny dogs" because they are excellent with children. Some people still use them in the pit in certain countries, but rarely in North America since they are so rare to obtain.

Q: I heard that Pit Bulls were not good with children, is it true?

Most Pit Bulls are excellent with children. Since they were bred to perform in the pit, they have a high tolerance for pain, and in general will patiently endure the "abuse" young kids unintentionally dish out. However like any large, powerful dog, they must be supervised with kids at all times.

Pit Bulls are enthusiastic and strong, and can easily knock over an unsteady toddler with their wagging tails. They can be quite rambunctious until they mature, which is around 2-4 years of age. Pit Bulls should be taught to play gently, not jump on people, to sit and wait for a signal before going through doors, etc. Positive training methods work best.

Adding a juvenile Pit Bull to a home with toddlers or very young children may not be ideal since the dogs are very energetic at that age. You may want to consider adopting a mature Pit Bull instead, that has proven himself with children. It is possible to have a young dog with toddlers or infants, but you must be diligent with your supervision. Pit Bulls are great playmates for older, respectful kids.

Q: Our neighbors bought a Pit Bull and now we are scared to let the kids play outside. Are these dogs really mean and vicious like the media portrays them?

A: Most Pit Bulls are NOT human aggressive. In a large number of cases, when a Pit Bull attacks a human, it has been trained to be aggressive towards people, most likely abused, and/or seriously deprived of socialization with humans. Those dogs are usually in the hands of uncaring and irresponsible owners who own them for the wrong reasons.

Any large dog should be supervised around children, and Pit Bull dogs are no exception. They can be rambunctious and play with a lot of intensity. Pit bulls can be animal-aggressive, and should be controlled around other pets, but human-aggression is NOT a normal trait of the breed.

You should evaluate the dog on its own merits, not just that it is a Pit Bull. Most veterinarians will tell you that Pit Bulls are very nice dogs, and not a danger in most cases. Owner responsibility, however, is a must with ANY large and powerful dog and all canines should be well-socialized with adults and kids.

Pit Bulls face prejudice and misunderstanding from many people who do not understand them very well, so ownership requires a willingness to consider your neighbors' fears, and educate them about the dog. The largest issue is to know the owners keep the dog as a pet, give it lots of love, and every opportunities to be around humans. The dog should not be chained outside alone and without the chance to interact with humans.

Etc, et al.

http://www.pbrc.net/info.html

In all honesty, the dogs that NEVER made a move on me at all were the German Shepards and the Rotts. I am pretty sure she's had a doberman too and that never bothered me. The poodle and the chihuahuas are mean motherfuckers!

FWIW the worst animal scar I am still carrying came from a FERRET.

I reiterate: the worst scarrings I've ever received were from an English bulldog and a ferret.

And if you don't know how I could have them near my son, clearly you haven't spent any time with them. They are, once again, the goofiest, most gentle dogs I have ever known.

http://staff.washington.edu/timk/wildlife/mammal/white_cheeked/gibbon03.jpg

etc.

Yeah, there have been a lot of pit bull attacks, and they have been vicious - I'm not denying that - however, the deed should be judged, not the breed. One attacks someone, so they all should be condemned? Okay, so by that logic, white men have raped and murdered people, so all white men should be condemned. While we're at it, let's throw in black men, asian men, white women, asian woman, black women, etc. In fact, the entire planet can't be trusted!

i love rottweilers. they have a lot of the same baggage as pit bulls, but the ones i've known have been amazingly kind, affectionate, and obedient.

(xpost)

hahahaha. yay ally.

The pitbulls, and bull terriers, I've known have never been anything but well-behaved and friendly. Plus bull terriers are supercute, with their little albino faces, awwwwww.

http://www.osric.com/~jeremy/weekend/2.jpg

here he is savagely attacking some other friends whilst i was interviewing them:

http://www.osric.com/~jeremy/weekend/8.jpg

Seriously, people: you've got several pit bull owners on this thread explaining themselves, posting links, etc. The response they are getting is, in short, "You are an unfit human being and you disgust me". This is the most asinine bullshit I've ever read.

bnw was OTM waaaaay upthread vis a vis overblown reporting.

dyson, I'm sorry you got bit by a fucking pit bull but get over it, I've been bit by a whole helluva lot of dogs and I'm not going to blame the entire breeds, or species for that matter, for this. Hell, half of it I'd blame myself.

xpost properly bred and treated rotts and german shepards and the absolute nicest, sweetest animals I've ever encountered in my entire life. They are like enormous puppy dogs. I standfast by my assertion that smaller dogs are actually more likely to be vicious--short man syndrome, if you will. In my EXTREMELY LARGE experience with dogs, this has been the case.

also, I'm giggling at this thought: Vicious St Bernard Attack!

Clearly we should put little booze casks around the necks of Pit-Bulls! Hell we should do that with our children!

And hey! Dalmations have an awful rep, though it is somewhat deserved. They are incredibly loyal animals, but very protective. ('ve had several and never had a problem myself, but they have gone for and tried to attack strangers and even friends - anyone that they thought was harming me (including a couple of unlucky boyfriends).

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/frenchbulldog/pics/frenchies2.jpg

eeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

http://www.leerburg.com/Photos/933.jpg

http://www.amstaff-pitbull.com/images/photos%20chiens/pitbull/armee.gif

i'll back you up. i usually prefer larger breeds, but good lord! french bulldogs are the cutest, especially the little tan preciouses!

xpost

i'm totally in tweeblivion, thanks to jeanne's fb pic.

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/frenchbulldog/pics/frenchies.jpg

DB, whenever we hit Marymoor, Calvin makes a total beeline for any Great Danes who are there. He LOVES them.

* okay, i'll be honest - i love all dogs. and jeanne, no more! i'm about to cry!

http://www.arcatapet.com/fullsize/5806.jpg

They don't make signs like this for beagles or collies, though, do they.

There have been several owners here who explained why they love their pitbulls. What more do you want? What would make you understand?

Yeah, but no one keeps sharks as free-roaming pets, per se.

I used to be afraid of them until my sister got one. They really are -extremely- affectionate and follow you everywhere. They're also really playful and are great clowns. Also very, very obedient.

It's kind of hard to explain if you don't have one. You develop a strong trusting bond with these dogs - you really feel you know them, so you really don't think twice that they will attack you.

Once again -- don't misunderstand me. I'm not spearheading a movement to eliminate pit bulls, I'm just trying to fathom why a rational person would want such a dog (and for what it's worth, I remain unconvinced of their appeal). Perhaps I'm simply buying into the negative aspects of their reputation, but said reputation is steeped in some pretty grizzly fact. Also, I suspect many (read:NOT ALL) pit bull owners see them as some sort've tough guy mystique-enhancing accessory as opposed to a proper pet.

I don't know any pit bulls. I haven't had any bad experiences with them (my bad dog experiences involve Boxers, actually). I'm just puzzled by their appeal.

[/twee]

And pits are just better than labs. Sorry, but I think labs are more boring.

I certainly have them to enhance my tough guy appeal.

Luna, I said SOME pit bull owners.

Maybe I AM NOT CONVINCED BY YOUR EXPLANATION, how about that?

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0060537795.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg
In her sixth true crime book (after The Embrace), Jones displays a remarkable ability to present an enormous amount of detailed information in a thrilling narrative that is neither sensationalistic nor maudlin. Still, this is a shocking tale, as Jones provides a no-holds-barred investigation into the brutal death of 33-year-old Diane Whipple after being mauled when savage dogs owned by lawyers Marjorie Knoller and Robert Noel entered the "red zone," a nonscientific term used to describe dogs "in the height of attack mode... beyond human control." The incident immediately received major national news attention, and Jones elaborates on the sordid details that emerged, including that the lawyers bred killer dogs to be sold to guard illegal methamphetamine labs, a scheme run from behind bars by Paul Schnieder, an Aryan Brotherhood member whom the lawyers not only represented but later adopted as part of a planned bizarre sexual triangle. Combining investigative reporting with exclusive access to Noel as well as to members of the San Francisco Police Department and the district attorney's office, Jones explores the lawyers' self-styled gothic world, a human "red zone" involving pornography and bestiality that had existed well before the death of Diane Whipple. With its graphic descriptions, this book is not for the squeamish.

(xpost)

haha basically you ARE a cartoon character to me, and I don't think I'm alone in thinking that here

Sort of - because people don't understand anything about them and only go by what they've heard and not their own experience. However, I know what mine are like, and those of my friends and neighbors, so I kind of don't care if other people don't like it or don't get it - they don't have to. And yeah, people have crossed the street to avoid walking by my dogs - but I chalk it up to ignorance. It's very clear that I'm not walking a snarling ball of rage on the end of a leash, but a happy, sometimes drooling, always tail wagging and obedient big ball of puppy.

(goshdarned xposts!)

I agree, which is what prompts the question.

I know the Whipple case dogs weren't pit bulls, but pit bulls entertain a simillar reputation.

I'd put this same question to gun owners.

Also, what's the appeal of a shotgun? (xpost)

I'm not saying this is a factor for Luna, but she is a woman living alone in a dangerous city.

xposts, whoo hoo!

damn x-post

and if it was legal to own one of these, people would too:

http://www.supposedlysane.com/busterdog.jpg

what's your point?

There are lots of reasons to own a pit bull, which have been enumerated at length. Making a major decision like choosing the pet with whom you'll spend the next decade or so should be a personal one, and ideally not influenced by others' stereotypes.

xp-a-rama

you're the one who brought up the shotgun, I was merely pointing out that owning a dog in a city is something that is done in public.

Cause that was a total non-sequitur

I didn't bring guns into this, Luna did.

whether you can walk around with a gun has nothing to do with the question. You asked why someone would want to own something that threatened other people.

No, I asked why someone would want a pit bull. "To Threaten Someone" was someone else's explanation....and an unattractive one at that.

People have owned such things since the beginning of time.

Does that make it right?

I don't have pitbulls, or would I have a dog at all - for reasons of safety.

No, people don't walk guns - however I personally know more people who have died or been grievously wounded by them than have ever been bitten by a dog of any kind. Dogs are to be feared and reviled, while guns are 'yeah, hey okay, come look at my grandfather's arsenal, it's cool'.

You don't have to agre with me, but by the same token, don't expect me to agree with you. I have my own, personal experience going on here, something I live with every day... You have paranoia and overly hyped media horror stories. You think I'm a bad mother because I have pitbulls in my house with my child? That's okay, I respect your right to feel that way, and yes, I can even see where you're coming from. But can you see my point at all?

I'm not saying this is a factor for Luna, but she is a woman living alone in a dangerous city.

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...), January 26th, 2004 1:33 PM. (Oops)

this sounds wrong - I'm not sure how to express what I do mean here.

The question shifted because someone explained the appeal of owning as pit bull as a means of threatening someone, which you must admit, begs further questions, no? (i.e. why do you feel the need to threaten someone, etc.)

xpost

the threatening aspect of them is just one (IMO twisted) reason why someone would own one, and isn't one that anyone here has given.

All I ever meant to say was I have pit bulls, I love them, mine and the ones I know are wonderful dogs, THOUGH I REALIZE THERE ARE LOTS OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT. That's it. Nothing else. Fini.

the threatening aspect of them is just one (IMO twisted) reason why someone would own one, and isn't one that anyone here has given.

Wrong. Nickalicious wrote:

Maybe part of their appeal IS their ability to fuck-shit-up. A well-trained fuck-shit-up dog might seem very appealing in terms of personal protection and whatnot. I guess what I'm saying is, considering a well-trained pit is more likely to fuck up some would-be attacker's shit than their owners, well...where's the non-appeal in that?

Are you always so defensive? Believe me, there are plenty of examples of threads around ILX where I am pointedly argumentative, and honestly this isn't one of them. I really don't have a stake in this, it was just curiosity. But the fact that I still remain unconvinced is no reason for you and Oops to demonize me, thanks very much. Enjoy your pit bull and may you never have any troubles with him.

FWIW I think pit bulls are hideous and I absolutely loathe dogs at this point in my life...

http://www.travel-images.com/alaska19.jpg

Did I ever once claim NOT to have an opinion on this subject matter? Look at the language in the question, for pete's sakes, it quite obviously takes assumes a dismissive/derisive tone towards the animals. That said, I am still honestly and legitimate puzzled by the appeal of owning such an animal. As to why I continue to be puzzled, hasn't there ever been an instance in your life wherein someone handed you an explanation that you SIMPLY DIDN'T BUY? or at least simply didn't fathom?

I don't hide it under the guise of demonization and persecution.

Because Oops was getting frustrated by the mere fact that I still hadn't changed my tune and joined the happy I love Pit bulls club, he resorted to petty character assasination and Luna implied that I'm needlessly argumentative. Maybe "demonization" and "persecution" are too weighty terms for that, but I found it a bit unnecessary.

You're getting this response because people are getting frustrated with trying to discuss this with you (and, uh, certain others on this thread--like I said, if you let one bad experience color your entire perspective on a species, breed, whatever and those that associate with them, that's your own issue to be dealt with, no one else's). You can't possibly tell anyone that you don't enjoy this just a little bit, no?

I don't enjoy being reduced to a cliche, thanks very much. Perhaps I should have titled this thread: DEFEND THE INDEFENSIBLE: PIT BULLS! Would that have made my predisposition about the topic clearer?

They're Delicious!

I am suspicious of the categorical nature of that statement when there is ample evidence to suggest otherwise. But, maybe I'm just being Sammy Safety.

I worked at a kennel for a while and the only injury I had was from a toy poodle. The dog I adopted was a mastiff/pitbull/rottweiler mix mutt, he was the best pet available there.

If you are worried about pit bulls then you will poop a log when you hear this- check it out, a guy I know owns a 600lb Siberian Tiger. He drives it around in a limo, it sleeps in his bed every night. I got to draw it a bunch of times when he brought it to my school as a drawing model. Bringing that in a school full of students dangerous maybe? Well, they did it without worrying about liability and there's even a testimonial letter on the website.
http://qadesh.com/

They're GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRATE!

No Toronto. Who's that guy! Is he who whut I thunk I heard about that dude who tried to keep a tiger in a house without permits or anything?

Also, for the record, my parents own a German Shepard/Rottweiler mix (we think), and though he can be a little feisty sometimes, he's a generally a sweetheart. They adopted him after finding him abandoned in the woods near their friends' cabin. What would've been a better choice for them? To leave him in the woods where he'd starve? (He was, by the behavior he exhibited, obviously already domesticated.)

also, here is some stuff about dog attacks.

However I was curious as to what the demographic were on dog attacks and then found this handy web page at the Center For Disease Control. There's some interesting reading there - it appears that pit bulls and rottweilers are involved in more biting incidents, however it's potentially that's because of owners/breeders choosing more aggressive dogs than something inherent to the breed. Guess there's just a lot of meth labs out there that need defending.

Some interesting stats from Australia though - I had no idea American pit bulls were banned (maybe just in Adelaide though)

http://www.mrmodels.co.nz/diecast/1_43rdscalediecast/Corgi%20501%20%20Buick-Kojak%20Car.jpg

a couple months ago (around thanksgiving), a friend of mine witnessed a pitbull (off-leash) attack a policewoman riding a horse in golden gate park in san francisco. the pitbull took a bite out of horses leg and stomach, the policewoman was thrown from the horse, and the dog's owner was kicked in the face by the horse. the horse sprinted off and another police officer chased down the dog and shot it twice in the head.

my main problem with pitbulls is that they attract some of the worst/irresponsible pet owners but that's been mentioned upthread many times.

http://www.pbrc.net/breedspecific.html

Check it out.

Unfortunately, I think that responsible and humane pit bull owners are in the minority, but demonizing the entire breed isn't going to change things.

So the fatal dog attack stats showed an average of 12 a year for the past 36 years, the great majority on little kids left unsupervised with dogs... I can think of much bigger household hazards (drownings in buckets?) but I concede there were no lab or golden retriever attacks listed there and powerful dogs are more dangerous.

Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.

The CDC page, upon a quick glance, seems to have at least one article saying the same thing. Male dogs that aren't fixed are much more aggressive.

Responsible dog owners who aren't planning on breeding get their dogs fixed. For lots of reasons. I have a strong opinion on this obv, and it's a whole separate issue. But it can make a big difference with behavior/aggression.

Some who are otherwise very responsible are total dumbasses about this because they don't want to imagine that snipping process. But I could especially see how those looking for the dog-as-macho-image-enhancer would especially want a male, uncastrated dog.

This whole post doesn't really make much difference, it's just one more angle on the gripe that there are far too many irresponsible people who own powerful breeds of dogs.

There's also ample evidence for both! However, the negative stories about pits are always going to get all the attention because that's just how media work. You'd never see something like this:

THIS JUST IN: A pitbull was seen in the park today playing gently and acting like a goofball with its owner and his 5 years old son. More news as it develops.

It's the same reason why people overestimate the risk of flying, space heaters, escalators, using drugs, walking around in S Central LA, electric blankets, you name it. If you prefer to error on the side of caution, that's fine and dandy, but don't think you're actually any more knowledgeable or wiser than those who choose otherwise.

I'm no fun, am I?

However, dog breeds have been created by selective breeding - owners selecting specific traits, including temperament. Isn't it possible that the irresponsible owners have been irresponsibly breeding - selecting extra aggressive dogs for breeding - thus warping the breed into one that has a more aggressive temperament over the years?

When you buy a breed of dog, you are told that there are risks of genetic problems. I think that Cocker Spaniels have a couple, including a kidney problem and a blindness problem that breeders are specifically trying to eliminate. There is also some sort of 'rage' syndrome in a very small minority of the breed that the breeders are actively investigating and trying to eliminate by not allowing these dogs to breed, and also not allowing dogs related to them to breed. Are pit bull breeders doing any of this?

Also, with regards to having dogs 'fixed' is interesting. We were told to 'fix' our first dog to curb his agression, but he became more agressive. Our second dog, a poodle, (not our choice, it belonged to a relative) was the sweetest dog who was boisterous but placid & not agressive at all. We had her spayed as it is healthier for female dogs & have nearly had to have her put down. She has turned completly viscious as she no longer has any female hormone to repress the male agressive hormone in her. I would rather have a bigger dog as in my experience they are not as agressive as smaller dogs. I am keen to get a dog when I have children. Possibly a staffy/doberman/rott but I wouldn't get a pit. I have had nothing at all to do with this breed & maybe if I'd had more contact with them I may feel differently. They can be beautiful dogs & apparently very affectionate. You just don't tend to see pits here at all. I always thought an Amstaff was an apbt. I'd love to actually meet someone who owned a friendly pit so that I could get used to them & get rid of any mistrust that I have in my head.

Have you ever been to Britain, stence? Are you just talking about pit-bulls, or any kind of dog? I am baffled by this comment.

http://webpages.charter.net/cmvenuti/images/george.jpg

Well, Jeezum Crowe, Elvis, where in blazes were you yesterday when i was almost fed to the kennel by these frothingly mad-dog-loving zealots?

Pit bull owners here say that the pit bull as a breed is not any more aggressive than any other dog This is also bullshit - I own two pit mixes, and I would never presume to say anything like that.

The bigger picture here is that Alex asked what the appeal is, people have explained their points of view, he doesn't agree, and everyone is fine. The end.

OK I only lived there 99-02 going to school and was a hermit so I really don't know any of the town. Except apparently people there are so god damn useless they have nothing to do but hang out in the parking lot of Coffee Time on Trafalgar and show off their dumb cars. The place was also really gross inside but that didn't stop me from going like 3 times every night for more caffeine.

I posted yesterday!

Please invest in a sense of humor, Luna.

If you were funny, I'd laugh.

http://stmartinsanimalfoundation.org/news/pit.jpg

Well, it ain't Jaz, but here's Raven from Killing Joke with some of his pit bulls....

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/raven/raven05.jpg

booo, x-post

:::sigh::

I don't hate pit-bulls.

Location of Attack
25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs
25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard
23% occurred inside the home
17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property
10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances

-and all but 9% were on toddlers or elderly people.

Of course that doesn't mention bites which are surely much more frequent.

http://freespace.virgin.net/p.kabrna/kabrna/barlick/sacha.jpg

what's on the front of this card, you ask?

http://www.mpls-saturn.com/Images/Target%20Gift%20Card_180.jpg

In short, pit bulls are better then people.

oops, I didn't see your post before, but my sister's dog is in that movie! He's the cute tan pit who is sitting with the shelter owner / pit bull expert.

Bad. Ass. Cat.

A pair of marauding pit bulls emerged from the edge of the bayou beyond New Orleans as the floods receded. Bred as fighting animals, their bloodlust had been sharpened by starvation. The dogs, which were wearing collars, had survived for more than two weeks but food was scarce.

The two pit bulls take turns attacking the bull They stalked towards their prey, a lone bull: a massive beast more than 10 times their combined weight. Like a wrestling tag team, the bitch and the dog attacked with awesome ferocity, leaping at the bull's head and latching on to its muzzle.

The stricken bull repeatedly shook the dogs off, flinging them up to 15 feet in the air. But they took turns to keep up the attack, exhausting the bull which was by now smeared with blood. Even after the bull trampled the bitch, leaving it dazed, the dog stepped up its attack.

The terrifying assault highlighted the US military's concern that pit bulls would form packs and could attack or even kill soldiers.

It was too dangerous for an unarmed witness to intervene but The Sunday Telegraph flagged down a National Guard truck. Seeing what was happening, a soldier shot the bitch in the head.

The dog paused before resuming the attack. It took two bullets to stop it dead.

Publishers wishing to reproduce photographs on this page should phone 44 (0) 207 538 7505 or e-mail syndication@telegraph.co.uk

One wonders, did he smack her up fist?

The two shih tzus take turns attacking the bull They stalked towards their prey, a lone bull: a massive beast more than 10 times their combined weight. Like a wrestling tag team, the bitch and the dog attacked with awesome ferocity, leaping at the bull's head and latching on to its muzzle.

The stricken bull repeatedly shook the dogs off, flinging them up to 15 feet in the air. But they took turns to keep up the attack, exhausting the bull which was by now smeared with blood. Even after the bull trampled the bitch, leaving it dazed, the dog stepped up its attack.

The terrifying assault highlighted the US military's concern that shih tzus would form packs and could attack or even kill soldiers.

It was too dangerous for an unarmed witness to intervene but The Sunday Telegraph flagged down a National Guard truck. Seeing what was happening, a soldier shot the bitch in the head.

The dog paused before resuming the attack. It took two bullets to stop it dead.

Publishers wishing to reproduce photographs on this page should phone 44 (0) 207 538 7505 or e-mail syndication@telegraph.co.uk

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050914/capt.lahg10509141759.hurricane_katrina_animals_lahg105.jpg?x=261&y=345&sig=XI1RnjFtYCxVegH6G4k33A--

"Animal shelter volunteer Sharon Spann plays with a ShiTzu puppy, Wednesday, Sept. 14, 2005, in the Hurricane Katrina Emergency Animal Shelter at Louisiana State University's John M. Parker Coliseum in Baton Rouge, La. As of Wednesday, the shelter was housing over 1,000 companion animals, including 641 dogs, 391 cats, and assorted pigs, rabbits, guinea pigs, ferrets, hamsters, gerbils, mice, tortoises, and birds. Since the shelter opened during the days following the hurricane, almost 300 pets have already been reunited with their owners although the number of admissions is still surpassing the number of discharged animals. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari)"

http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/Regular/10114000/10114485.jpg

OTM. I just went through the adoption page and nearly died.

http://atts.org/

83.3% of pit bulls tested out as non-aggressive in this sampling. A large sampling, too - 469 American Pit Bull Terriers. That's a better rate than preferred 'family dogs' like Cocker Spaniels (81.5%), Collies (79.0%) or even the famous rescue breed of St. Bernards (82.9%).

So, we can conclude that when raised properly to be good dogs, they're very good dogs indeed. Maybe it's worth looking into facts rather than relying on stereotypes and rumors.

Of course, upthread someone said "I don't care about your stupid facts." Well, okay. Nice work, George W. Bush.

Anyway, I told my thug-dog about your rapping pitty bull, and he laughed, dog.

He rhymed out this:

Yo, you northside pittys try to be all westside
when I put my jaw on your ass you will not abide
you will feel it slide all on your hide
and the blood will flow this is not a lie.

Southside rotty will rip you up,
make you scream like a bad dream like a dying pup,
rip your ass so bad youre gonna need a pre-nup.

Southside rotty gonna eat your eyes
gonna digest like the marrow all your lies
youre the kind of northside dog that I despise
now I must say to the pitty goodbye.

ihttp://chicago.craigslist.org/rnr/99058782.html

We have french bassets. Actually just one now, a bitch. The other died two yrs ago. :-((((

This is Lucy.

http://static.flickr.com/22/33193010_ea7ca5ac14.jpg

Yeah, but why would you want to be a person that owns a marked breed during the time when they are feared?

would anyone take seriously an attack basenji?