Buffy

I hear Buffy is about to bite the big one. This would suck as I've based a whole halloween display around her and her vampire-slaying exploits. It's either that or Randall and Hopkirk, and to be honest, there are more books featuring Buffy.

Is she going to DIE DIE DIE? The Buffy fans say WHY WHY WHY. But she will DIE DIE DIE. And Spike will CRY CRY CRY. Xander will LIE LIE LIE when he says he still has a career. Meanwhile David Boreoanatz will SIGH SIGH SIGH as he knows deep in his heart that his spin-off series won't last the year. AI-YI-YI-YI! Screams Alison Hannigan as she realises that her only source of income now is the American Pie franchise. BYE BYE BYE says Sarah Michelle Gellar, after she never gets another part again due to typecasting.

surely i misheard?

I had the same reaction to hearing the "real" ILM's name spoken aloud!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002UUO86/ref=amb_asin-coop-1_138961/026-0364612-2999634

box set of ALL 7 Buffy series (roughly 170 episodes?), 39 disks, 140 quid

and then i realise that this is about twice what i paid for my dvd player...

I'm bidding on a bootleg VCD of the unaired pilot. Where did my life go wrong?

It's small - a 50MB asf file, so you can't watch it too large but it's big enough to get the point.

Emma Caulfield is a RON PAUL SUPPORTER

She probably didn't even need to "act" until around the time Buffy's mom died

Man this show sucked.

i miss the days on ILX when you could be ostracised for having the wrong opinions on season 4

so sad now

Only a couple of weeks until LOST starts again and the thread shoots back up into new answers for another year, so don't worry too much.

I'm rewatching the entire series and got the GF addicted to it. Seasons 5-6 having way more resonance now that I'm in the appropriate life stage.

You feel like you understand yourself and the world you live in, everything seems really clear. and you step off the platform......then you crash back on the ground and everything feels out of joint and you feel wrong and you don't really understand anything after all and you have to build a new map from scratch.

Damn that makes me sound super depressed I'm just sayin I get it in a way that I didn't before.

"Please don't forgive me" is a heavy fuckin line.

Anybody have thoughts on S6?

I liked them, in a partially camp way. Though I did enjoy both those season's efforts to do more "real world" depressing non-fantasy angst as in schizophrenia, rape, drug abuse, financial struggle, family death, plummeting self-worth and annihilation, social disconnect, all that fun stuff. But I ask you, who really builds anything up again? I kid. Season 6 had less hope to it, even by the end. Friendship and love doesn't save the world every time! Possibly I sympathize with what you're saying about seeing those at the right time re: appropriate life stage.

OH NO

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i666afabc28491e6a5d5861d83ae30855

i would like to know who is going to see this goddamn movie.

uh have you seen the orig movie it is total suckass

"Everything has its moment. Every movie takes on a life at some point, and this seems like the moment to do this."

I know, man -- if they think they're going to successfully translate and re-launch Buffy to some mass audience, they may be kinda fooling themselves.

(Without Whedon & company, tbh, I'm not sure the concept/franchise are all that great of a thing -- any step turn toward a more conventional hot-young-chick-fights-vampires product will majorly suck it up)

xpost - yes, the above was a lot of the problem with the original movie -- it was like it didn't actually trust Whedon's tone in the script ... if you watch it after enjoying the show, you can actually hear solid Whedony stuff in there that just gets stepped on and pulled back and misdelivered

^ hence my suspicion that a Buffy product put together under any other type of vision will just be ... well, lame, because the central idea is actually not amazing (and there's no mass-culture Buffy image to "reboot" like you can with something like Star Trek, and even if there was it's only been like 6-7 years or something)

do any stans consider season 1 to be among the show's best? imo it was watchable but kinda unbearably corny, want to decide if i should keep going or not

no it is by far the WORST... it doesnt really get good until disc 3 of s2

haha ok great that's exactly what i wanted to hear - i want to keep watching but can't put up with much more of this RL stine bs. hopefully zander and willow get eaten by a giant dandelion or something, god they suck (so far)

series 2+3 are the best tho

Out of sight, out of mind, Witch the first two episodes, Angel and Prophecy Girl are some of the greatest episodes of any television ever imo. Can live without the evil internet demon etc. though.

Witch*,* the

wait ,yeah, witch is pretty next level

basically the vampire episodes were pretty good, the invisible girl one was really good, and the finale was pretty great. maybe i "had to be there" but most of the other ones with the internet demon, praying mantis, etc were so eyerollingly corny. also idk if this is challops but the dialog is pretty awful across the board

As everyone says, this show gets a lot better very soon, so keep it up. S1 is the second weakest season (S7 being the worst, but if you get that far you'll stick it out). Every other season ranges from pretty watchable to great.

word, will buy s2. thank you ilx

also buffy is v v pretty

i miss that sarah michelle gellar something fierce

yeah kev s2-6 are better than the wire imo and u know i dont trust white ppl who dont love the wire so

top two tv shows of all time

1. buffy
2. the wire

hoos otm upthread about how the later seaons (well, not 7) are a lot better when you watch them as an adult.

get your fill of SMG's looks now, she was way cuter in the earlier seasons

I don't even want to get into that one, but I think we could maybe agree that that's probably a matter of individual taste, especially with regard to what temperature you prefer her to look like she's at

Also, you know, not much the point

it really comes down to short skirts vs leather pants

top two tv shows of all time

1. buffy
2. the wire
--horseshoe

I am basically this except in opposite order. Buffy does get extra points for teaching me about what a TV show was capable of doing, since I started watching this in high school, before I had any understanding of like, narrative. I actually only started watching around S2 because I thought Sarah Michelle Gellar was v v v pretty in 1998. (The later unnecessary weight loss, especially between S5 and S6, kinda stung.) I stuck around because it was a little bit life-changing, though.

I know nobody agrees with this so I'm probably just wrong but I like season 7 better than 5 or 6.

no 'probably' about it. season 7 doesn't have tara, ergo sucks. also buffy makes a bunch of shitty speeches that last forever and don't really say anything. also the first is a lame cop out. 'Selfless' and 'Storyteller' are the only episodes that are worthy of the Buffy canon, whereas almost all of season 5 is, and 6 has the rubbish geek villains, Never Again and Once More With Feeling...

Man I haven't talked about Buffy in ages, the Whedon stan in me has been repressed for too long.

Selfless is a thing of majesty though. Anya is probably the most underrated character in television history.

I know nobody agrees with this so I'm probably just wrong but I like season 7 better than 5 or 6.

I would never go that far, but 7 is nowhere near as bad as the haters would have us believe. I thought it was pretty good, if a bit fluffy compared to what came before. It's severely decompressed, though, so watching long stretches of the season works better than watching single episodes in isolation. I think I watched the whole thing in, like, two weeks, so I thought it was kind of a blast.

Season 8 has had a couple of interesting moments but is generally unfocused and disappointing.

Well, the actors' hearts really haven't been in it for the duration of season 8. The cinematography has really lost its lustre, as well.

also buffy is v v pretty

Yes, v., v.

Where's she been, anyway?

i think she had a kid. she's going to be in some tv series on usa, according to imdb.

I'll give Season 7 this - I never watched the series in order, mostly in pockets on cable reruns later on, but the episode that really hooked me into the show was "Conversations with Dead People".

(The later unnecessary weight loss, especially between S5 and S6, kinda stung.)

so otm

Ha, to be fair, something did happen to her between seasons 5 and 6 ...

It's funny, though, the changes in her appearance really fit the arc of the whole thing, and not just in terms of age -- she starts off all soft-featured and glowy and chipper, and then by the end, after all the grim and serious stuff, she comes off more like a very pretty, very sharp knife carved out of some form of ice and 100% ready to cut you

the first ep with spike + ethan is one of my favourites, the halloween one, s2 i think

also buffy makes a bunch of shitty speeches that last forever and don't really say anything.

but it's such a great lol when Andrew stops videotaping her because of this

also Season 8 feels insubstantial when you just go to someones house and read a years worth at once, I wonder if the small banter moments are treats enough in the glacial, barely-sketched plotlines that it's more fun keeping up month-by-month?

in the last series stakes angel kicked buffy's ass

last three eps of angel are total classic imo

Last season of Angel also has the two super-hilar Ben Edlund episodes

it really comes down to short skirts vs leather pants

― sonderangerbot, lunedì 28 dicembre 2009 19.38 (Yesterday)

this is about all iàm qualified to talk abt having only seen season 1 but yeah, SMG was 20 but played a 16 year old, and iirc girls were not allowed to wear the skirts buffy was wearing back in my high school. hearing she loses weight is mad depressing

iirc girls were not slaying vampires in my school either bring back realism

i am not complaining!! stay in them skirts afaic!

i will

People who think their problems are so huge craze me, like this time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatizing event of my life, and she's trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing!

hang on there are only eight series of buffy tho right?

7+lame comic thing that is still on going

People who think their problems are so huge craze me, like this time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatizing event of my life, and she's trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing!

― eagle tears was a popular drink and it still is (a hoy hoy), martedì 29 dicembre 2009 16.46 (6 minutes ago)

cordelia is hot but her character is a bit played too

cordelia becomes v. amazing tho as she gets more layered but also just as shallow.

MG was 20 but played a 16 year old

To be fair this was more convincing than when SMG was 16 and had to play someone in their late 20s on All My Children.

yeah cordy is poss the best orig character (oz/tara being the best)

¿Tara really?

Yes. Does benefit from being exactly like the lezza witch version of my best friend though.

cordelia is hot but her character is a bit played too

― k3vin k., Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:54 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

cordelia is amazing!

i always thought tara was a pretty boring character. she's all right i guess. i'm the only person i know who doesn't hate dawn though. not that i really like her, but don't hate her either.

i have major love for joyce

but i always like ppls moms

horshoe otm throughout thread

I'm rewatching the entire series and got the GF addicted to it. Seasons 5-6 having way more resonance now that I'm in the appropriate life stage.

― BIG HOOS enjoys a cold mindbeer (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:13 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark

wow hello time warp post

I like Dawn! But then I'm also a big Season 1 fan, so my tastes may differ from others.

i don't like dawn by any means but i never really understood the vitriol reserved for her. but then again i tend not to get the vitriol reserved for anything ever

Dawn could be a bit shrill sometimes, but there were people online that seriously wanted to murder her.

sometimes i will see the dvd sets of this on sale an consider getting them because im reasonably certain id end up really vibing them but some part of me still feels good abt never having seen a single episode of this or angel or firefly

sometimes i try to watch angel (roommate has dvds) because i miss buffy but most of the episodes are frankly too silly to watch more than once every couple years. can't do it. angel is just not good.

the first half of season 6 is by far my favorite part of buffy. unfortunately that's a pretty small window, i'd say the rest is decent but not fantastic.

I kind of love the character of Ethan Rayne, because he was such a transparent plot device who showed up once a season to provide an episode with wacky hijinks involving Giles, which was always incredibly entertaining.

And then he just stopped showing up, right?

yeah, the Initiative took him away after he turned Giles into a demon, and he was never seen again. Another reason to dislike Riley.

Aww, I always liked Riley OK.

riley was the Dean of buffy

I guess I'm in the same position as Kevin... I watched the first season of Buffy when it was reran on Finnish TV around 1999 or 2000, mostly because it featured the red-haired girl from American Pie, who I thought was incredibly hot. But in the end the series felt so corny that I couldn't keep up watching it weekly just because of Alison Hannigan, and I gave away my TV set around the same time, so I only saw the first season plus maybe one of two episodes of the second one. Then, years later, I learned through ILX and other sources that Buffy's is actually considered a classic series, though apparently I gave up on it just before it turned classic. So after that I've been wondering, should I give it a second chance? Maybe some day when I'll have enough spare time.

Is it possible to start watching the series starting from season 2, without missing any crucial information? Because I can't remember much of season 1, but no way am I gonna watch it all again.

You should be able to start off with Season 2 and not miss anything that's too important. Occasionally, they'll reference or make jokes about the early stuff (like Xander having a crush on his teacher who turns into a praying mantis), but it doesn't get in the way of following the story.

definitely. or even start with season 3 to avoid more cumulative angel screen time.

Where's she been, anyway?

She's been struggling with her career. Done a few movies but never were successful. Also had a kid (like A) with Freddie Prinz Jr. They've been together quite a long time.

are you saying she had kid a with freddie prinze

riley was the Dean of buffy

― plaxico (I know, right?), Wednesday, 30 December 2009 11:15 (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if this is a gilmore girls reference then it is so otm :(

tuomas- if you want to watch buffy, and please do it is the greatest tv show ever in the history of tv like seriously, but want to skip to the real good stuff, go: Welcome To The Hellmouth, The Harvest, Witch, Angel, Out of Mind Out of Sight, Prophecy Girl, When She Was Bad, School Hard, Halloween, Lie To Me, What's My Line Pt. 1&2, Surprise/Innocence and then watch every episode. That cuts out like 15 episodes of filler.

if it's a gilmore girls reference it's not otm! riley is one of the worst ever.

so was dean

oh i am so dumb and annoying but im pretty so rory plz love me

lol she reads books and eats and says funny things so i dont have to

riley always seemed like an underwritten jagoff to me but nonetheless i was srsly affected by the direction his character took. got all choked up and i was like 15!

i was srsly nauseated by the direction his character took >:[

dean was rad f u g2h

yeah i love dean and at least that actor is cute ffs

i liked dean at first but he was such a pussy. jess ended up being disappointingly underwritten but he > dean no doubt, though tristan was the best male character of the first 2 seasons imo!

besides christopher duh

jess is gross + that is the wrong way to watch gilmore girls, but this thread is not about that

xpost christopher is like the devil what is wrong with you???!

yeah chris is evil. i like dean actually but they are both super dopey and kinda pointless. dean is aiight because he is just something for lor/rory to bounce off of; riley doesn't smile as much as dean and thus isn't as good at this

riley was pretty boring but he was also the only one of buffy's boyfriends i would possibly consider dating material because he was the least crazy. yet more evidence that good tv is not equivalent to good life.

^^^ haaa yah dean was kinda boring compared to a 30yo poet living in his uncle's attic or the heir to a media baron's fortune but he was the best bf that rory had imo and the kinda solid car-fixing dude u want to d8 irl

oh hai guise check out this cool thread i found: Tell me what's happening on "Gilmore Girls" a.k.a. The "Gilmore Girls" thread.

riley always seemed like an underwritten jagoff to me but nonetheless i was srsly affected by the direction his character took.

Oh man: I have to agree with this and marvel at one of those rare instances of Horseshoe possibly being wrong. Riley was underwritten and bland and feckless, at first, kind of a generic love interest and a way to introduce the Initiative. And the show eventually realized that. The brilliant thing is that they dealt with this by having Riley realize it too. That was the awesome and affecting part -- Riley actually trying to cope with the fact that he was sort of useless and unimportant in the show! Which was actually part of a larger theme with a lot of the men on the show: Xander feeling useless and left-behind when he lives with his parents and doesn't go to college; Giles eventually feeling like he has nothing left to offer Buffy, etc. (Also Tara and even Dawn, to an extent, during this period where almost everyone on the show feels totally shut out and left behind by the ever-growing power of Buffy and Willow.)

I mean, I don't want to sound too lit-crit about this, because all I'm really talking about is good characterization and interpersonal dynamics, but ... I think this was an interesting flip-side to Whedon's thing for powerful female characters -- he also spent a whole lot of time on the male characters around them feeling un-powerful and useless and, umm, loser-y. And Riley was one of the more interesting ones -- you spend all this time finding him bland and useless and then one day he's like "oh shit, I'm completely bland and useless, aren't I," and at that moment he becomes incredibly interesting. To me. (He says this to Xander, too, doesn't he? That bit where they're moving and he's like "eh, she doesn't love me, I'm not important, but I guess I'll just live with that until she figures it out.")

(Granted, the Riley-hanging-with-vampires / heroin-den thing was a little on the nose, but it fit perfectly, and I actually really like their last argument, because Buffy is interestingly sort of wrong and mean -- or not so much objectively "wrong," but she confirms what Riley predicted, that she really doesn't have a ton of time or tolerance for him, that he's a bland leave-behind.)

I remember when Riley first met Buffy, he tells her that talking to her is like an "oral exam." Um, yeah, that's sexy. And when he finds out what she is, he tells her that she's a) stupid for not wanting to be with him, b) taking the Slayer thing too seriously, and c) self-involved. He makes all these judgments and assumptions about her life when he barely knows her.

In season 5, when Buffy is simultaneously trying to take care of her sick mother, her needy sister, school and slayer responsibilities, all Riley can do is whine about Buffy not being there for him and not having enough time for him. He should have dated Dawn, they were at about the same level of maturity.

To be honest I think their entire dynamic is cemented during the bit in "Hush" where she motions desperately for him to smash the box, and he smashes something else entirely and then looks up proudly at her like he's done a very good job

i think the thing that soured Riley's difficult self-realization arc for me was that horrible speech Xander gives Buffy after Riley cuts out of town after he has that whole vampire sucking/blowjob fiasco. it's all about how she should have held onto Riley because he was a good one and it really felt like the show was endorsing that sentiment, which i found intolerable. maybe this was a naive reading on my part. maybe it was supposed to say something about Xander's identification with Riley.

i am often wrong, sadly.

k3vin you should get out of this spoilery thread btw

it's all about how she should have held onto Riley because he was a good one and it really felt like the show was endorsing that sentiment, which i found intolerable.

Iirc any of the writers for the show were angry/bitter that the audience never warmed to Riley, so in a way I think it was a meta-lecture to the viewers as well as to Buffy.

Oh man: I have to agree with this and marvel at one of those rare instances of Horseshoe possibly being wrong. Riley was underwritten and bland and feckless, at first, kind of a generic love interest and a way to introduce the Initiative. And the show eventually realized that. The brilliant thing is that they dealt with this by having Riley realize it too. That was the awesome and affecting part -- Riley actually trying to cope with the fact that he was sort of useless and unimportant in the show! Which was actually part of a larger theme with a lot of the men on the show: Xander feeling useless and left-behind when he lives with his parents and doesn't go to college; Giles eventually feeling like he has nothing left to offer Buffy, etc. (Also Tara and even Dawn, to an extent, during this period where almost everyone on the show feels totally shut out and left behind by the ever-growing power of Buffy and Willow.)

I mean, I don't want to sound too lit-crit about this, because all I'm really talking about is good characterization and interpersonal dynamics, but ... I think this was an interesting flip-side to Whedon's thing for powerful female characters -- he also spent a whole lot of time on the male characters around them feeling un-powerful and useless and, umm, loser-y. And Riley was one of the more interesting ones -- you spend all this time finding him bland and useless and then one day he's like "oh shit, I'm completely bland and useless, aren't I," and at that moment he becomes incredibly interesting. To me. (He says this to Xander, too, doesn't he? That bit where they're moving and he's like "eh, she doesn't love me, I'm not important, but I guess I'll just live with that until she figures it out.")

― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:21 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is so, so otm

i feel like characters in angel did this too

he does say that to Xander, btw, nabisco, it's all dramatically at the end of one of the lovey-dovey Buffy-Riley episodes, and he says it all stone-faced and the episode ends, so it's meant to be and is a shock. the whole vampire/whoring plot follows soon after, i think?

xpost - Yeah, I think it makes sense that Xander would sympathize. Like: the show makes Riley bland and extraneous. The viewer finds him bland and extraneous. He himself comes to realize he's bland and extraneous. Buffy begins to treat him as bland and extraneous. This makes sense to everyone involved. But of course in terms of an actual relationship, you can't have one partner just be bland and extraneous, which I think is most of what Xander's trying to communicate there -- that if you can't think of them as more than bland/extraneous they will eventually leave. Which Riley does, and he winds up someplace where he's not extraneous, in a relationship with someone where the two of them are on an equal footing.

I didn't feel, with Xander's speech, like the show was trying to endorse the Keep Riley viewpoint so much as throw this realization in Buffy's face that she couldn't necessarily expect anyone to stick blandly/extraneously around without ever feeling important himself. The Rory + Dean comparison is kind of interesting, because these are two shows that have really strong central female characters, and both of them are way more fascinating and realistic than a ton of shows about men in terms of the idea that you can't have a relationship with someone who's vastly secondary to yourself as a main character. I dig the way, with Riley, that this is sort of meta, how he's partly dealing with the logic of the show itself, in which he's just not significant.

okay fine

(maybe "meta" is not the word, but I really like those seasons where so much of what the characters are dealing with involves their own feelings of importance/unimportance, power/powerlessness, leading/being-left-behind, etc., within the context of the show they're in!)

not to keep talking about the gilmore girls but maybe the reason dean doesn't bug me the way riley does is that i kind of hate rory. nobody could ever be good enough for buffy, tbh, which is the point all of her romantic storylines tend toward it seems.

nabisco do you ever get tired of being otm?

ha, agreed about Rory -- plus "nobody's ever good enough for you" + "you don't have time to care about them anyway" = a major part of her whole Burden of Slayerdom issue, right?

yeah it seems like it's also a generic superhero issue

ha BTW the other reason Riley can't be Dean is because that guy dated Lauren Graham (as did Spike, I think)

did not read the long posts i assume told me the entire plot of buffy but ^this is not otm, there was definitely a little tacit thing there between dean and lorelei imo

so that's why she was so mad when Rory lost her virginity

Nabisco I think one interesting thing about Buffy (which underpins your point) is that the characters really can think of themselves as being in "the show" the same way that we do - this is much less likely to be able to happen in shows either that purport to be realist, or where the fantasy element is totally accepted at the level of reality (Star Trek, say).

Buffy (and Angel too, though I think it was muddier there) is kind of odd in that you've got a very tightly defined group of people who know and interact with Buffy-as-Slayer.

One thing I thought about fans' Riley-hate is that a lot of that was down to Buffy (the character) never making him interesting. The angst-to-petting ratio in the Buffy/Angel relationship was ridiculously high, while Buffy's relationship to Riley appeared prosaic by comparison (or as much as possible for a r'ship between two such people) - the audience knew that Buffy invested pretty much zero in it apart from her sex drive long before Riley did. If the writers truly intended for us to take to him more strongly then they are responsible I think; there is so much more they could have done by making Riley's genetically mutated GI Joe-ness (not to mention Buffy-as-Slayer) an issue for the relationship back in Season 4 when I think people's opinions weren't settled. Buffy winning Riley over from The Initiative could have been a much more dramatic plot arc than it was. And (although it would have been predictable and repetitive), it would have been sensible to give him some kind of time-bomb genetic flaw that could then have been used to symbolise more subtle emotional stumbling blocks in the relationship in a way that made it easier to show its layers (in the same way that Angel's vampness was always a metaphor for the danger of sex in teenage relationships more generally) (I seem to remember there was some kind of time-bomb issue actually but it wasn't used in this way and was pretty minor from a plot-arc perspective I think?).

Tara provides a good example of this: a somewhat wispy character right up until the point where she and Willow's relationship started to fray, at which point she improved dramatically.

i don't really get why ppl think tara is a good character too

can i

http://buffy_the_vampire_slayer.oldiblog.com/sites/images/articles/575/article_575148.jpg

yeah i never really found tara a great character either. the second time i watched buffy i realized she was a pretty human and realistic character, but i still don't think she was interesting, which is also necessary.

the second time i watched buffy i realized she was a pretty human and realistic character, but i still don't think she was interesting, which is also necessary.

Yeah I think this is probably spot-on. Very true-to-life, but true-to-lifeness isn't really what you go to Buffy for.

I think the way the relatioship was set up was similarly understated, kinda secondary to Willow being shy about telling her friends, such that Tara ended up seeming like a coming-out-fling which... persisted.

Much prefer Tara to Willow's second girlfriend though.

Tara's awesomeness can be singled down to own episode iirc: The Yoko Factor- miss kitty fantastico, going to the bathroom w/ anya, her delicate enthusiasm for willow even when spike is ripping on her

how's it going k3ller?

oh christ i'd forgotten all about wes

i bought 2 and 3 but havent gotten around to watching them yet. i've gotten too into the Wire which has the better fortune of having a dropdead classic first season, can't stop.

btw halfway thru season 2 and this is incredible now

no it is by far the WORST... it doesnt really get good until disc 3 of s2

― my girl wants to sharty all the time (s1ocki), Monday, December 28, 2009 6:05 PM (3 weeks ago)

it got great a little before this for me but "innocence" (on disc 4) is stunning

yeah, that's the one.

man the part where buffy finds angel in his apartment is heartbreaking

you guys were right about cordelia totally not sucking anymore! love her. even xander and willow are alright now, though this whole xander/cordi thing is weird

Wow, I had completely forgotten that there was ever a Xander/Cordy thing.

Uh, not to spoil anything. Because, uh, they're tooooootally still together, fer shure.

;)

finale of season 2 is really where it goes next-level iirc

Word. Then season 3 is awesome, season 4 is pretty good, and season 5 is some of the best television ever.

def goes nuclear at the end of s2

i am torn on whether i should next rewatch season 3, late 6, or 7. what would you do?

I'd say 3. 6 is a downer.

Willow had another girlfriend? Have totally forgotten that part, have yet to re-watch Seas 7.

6 is a downer.

Massive understatement. I'd say it's downright depressing. Brilliant, nonetheless.

three is the best series

3>5>2>1>4>7>6

s2 finale is RIDICULOUS btw. ending is devastating, damn

right? now imagine not popping in S3 for four months

terrified to watch further tho, no way it can live up to that. i yell at the screen every time buffy talks to a boy that isnt angel, no one is good enough for her imo

xp dude i know, that's exactly what i thought when it finished

old people had it rough back in the day imo

is that "now leaving sunnydale!" (its better this way)

Kevin she finds better, but then I never liked Angel

ur not allowed in the fan club anymore

omg i genuinely cannot watch the end of s2 without crying. its that, anya in 'the body' and the end of Milk- nothing else in this world really makes me cry. but goddamn the end of s2. its just too much.

The end of S5 always makes me cry.

googling buffy the body was interesting (xp)

P.S. to k3vin k: do not Google "The Body". Seriously. For your own sake. Avoid any mentions anywhere to "The Body" in conjunction with Buffy.

KEVIN SHOULD BE OFF THIS THREAD MAN

there are quite a few buffy with her mom in s5 episodes that make me cry.
pretty much none with angel though.

ugh buffy's mom is the WORST

xander's grown on me but i'd love it if he didn't crack a joke in EVERY. GODDAMN. TENSE. SITUATION.

buffy's mom is one of the great moms

Yeah, Buffy's mom will grow on you. Just wait until you get to the episode where she does ___ with _____. Ha ha. Oh, just wait.

haha yes. she said something about a stevedore right?

Ha ha ha. Yes. The moment when Buffy reveals that she knows about her mom ___-ing _____ is the best ever.

it is. but i have to say, i would hit that if i were buffy's mom too.

yeah there was a marathon on logo the other day and after like 12 hours the last one they showed was the s2 finale and i was like fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck even though i had the whole series on dvd upstairs lol

buffy's mom is one of the great moms

― plaxico (I know, right?), Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:20 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, Buffy's mom will grow on you. Just wait until you get to the episode where she does ___ with _____. Ha ha. Oh, just wait.

― SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:50 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^this. and earshot when buffy finds out, omg! xpost.

it is. but i have to say, i would hit that if i were buffy's mom too.

beating up ladies is rong tho

She was getting kinda mouthy.

i yell at the screen every time buffy talks to a boy that isnt angel, no one is good enough for her imo

This absolutely made Seasons 4-7 frustrating for me. There was all this long drawn out relationship building and I just kept on being like "Nope, doesn't deserve her, never will". Although as mentioned I was like 16 yo during Seasons 2 and 3 and Sarah Michelle Gellar was v v pretty to me, so it is possible I just refused to accept that anyone was worthy of her (other than possibly me). I am looking at YOU, Freddie Prinze Jr. Basically I did not have a rational relationship with this show most of the time it was on. This probably made it better, though.

Lezzing up in Cruel Intentions > Angel > Riley > That guy she sleeps w/ in s4 > Spike > Scooby Doo > FPJr.

Parker? I cannae be bothered to look it up.

really, really wish i hadnt read that first post sam :(

my own fault obv

yeah you were told to keep off this thread many a post ago.

also fuck off am i going to be all SPOILERZ about a show that end over five years ago, even for u k3v my dear :S

Yeah, dude. You should start a separate, spoiler-free 'k3vin k. watches Buffy!' thread for us to contribute to and tease you with thinly-disguised spoilers on.

I MEAN SPIKE???

ha, that was just to throw you off k3ller. buffy would obviously never have feelings for a vampire.

pretty certain she never did it w/ scooby either

xxpost

Oh, no no. That's a totally different Spike. He's an assistant professor at her college, introduced in season 4. Lots of laffs and mix-ups when the name 'Spike' gets tossed around and no one knows which Spike is being referred to! Prepare yourself for hilarity.

And she totally did do it with Scooby. Didn't you see the direct-to-DVD sequel?

Poor Freddy having to watch that on set.

somewhere at the start of s6 i realized i might have fallen in love with a fictional character and i felt like a suburban housewife

Hahaha, yeah when I was writing about not thinking Riley or Spike were good enough for Buffy up there, it occurred to me that the difference between myself and a Twi-hard is basically nil. (Except I liked a better piece of fiction, I guess.)

just watched s2 finale again, so beyond-words fantastic. it's got 3 emotional climaxes that are each more devastating than the last, (~~SPOLERS~~) willow saying "oz?" after xander says he loves her, buffy with her mom in the kitchen after she tells her she's the slayer, and then...you know the third

I don't think you need to put a spoiler message up, being the only person who hasen't seen it.

just for future noobs like me who'll read this thread

future noobs really need to avoid the internet

btw the whendon commentary on "innocence" is great if u have the DVD

most whedon commentaries are great. him and espenson are a+

hate to say it yall but s3 is kinda dragging. seems like it's struggling to find a direction - angel's back (cool!) but he's locked in a mansion with like two lines per episode? this last one i just watched was MUCH better, ep 7 where they have to destroy the glove, but i want cool villains again, i'm getting tired of this goosebumps shit. also good god i hope we're dont with scott, LAME-O

hopefully it'll pick up like s2 did

just hold on with season 3. it's fantastic overall--i don't think season 2 was particularly pulled together at the same point either.

season 3 has the best villain of all buffy seasons btw fuk u if u disagree

buffy dvd commentaries are totally boring except when joss does them ime

season 3 has the best villain of all buffy seasons btw fuk u if u disagree

― horseshoe, Tuesday, February 2, 2010 9:42 PM (16 minutes ago)

don't name names if it's not him but i hope you're not talking about trick

It is not! You are in for a treat!

ok FUCK THIS SHOW for making me think cordelia died!!!

spike is back! buffy just told angel not to see her anymore :(

gr8 episode

love k3v's unfolding experience, kiu

yep, s3 definitely picks up, possibly my fave season

I totes forgot about Mr. Trick. Thanks for bringin' the memories, bruv.

The end of S3 will have you out of your chair and cheering. Just wait and see how much better it gets.

omg i forgot about the cordy thing. :( and mr. trick! What are your thoughts on Faith, Kev?

KEVIN PLZ PROVIDE REAL TIME REAX UPDATES ON EVERY EPISODE AS A PERSONAL FAVOUR TO ME.

thank you.

Gosh but I'm feeling chipper! Who's for a root beer?

Yeah, this is pretty awesome, watching someone discovering all this stuff from scratch. More updates please.

haha <3 u guys

faith seems pretty cool so far, idk she hasn't really been developed yet or anything, kinda just kick ass and hot. she's mad at buffy right now (which reminds me WHY IS EVERYONE SO MEAN TO BUFFY?!? like the second episode or so when she comes back and they have that 'party' at her house, and they like gang up on her in front of everybody - and WHILE PPL WERE GETTING EATEN BY ZOMBIES IIRC - for leaving for the summer. thennnn everyone's all up in arms about the angel being back thing, which imo isn't that damn big a deal. everyone knows his deal, he has his soul back and he's kinda helpful this way iirc! btw buffy just like broke it off with him? wtf. but yeah as long as they don't smoosh i dont see the big deal. people are just being MOODY lately ffs.)

i remember rolling my eyes when you guys said cordi turns out to be an awesome character, but damn i love her now, the show PLAYED ME when it made me think she died, and then plus i feel super bad for her about xander making out with willow & shit becuase like, she's super self-absorbed and stuff but she's really good to xander and kinda genuinely likes him!

so yeah i havent put much thought into it or anything but that's where i'm at

which imo isn't that damn big a deal.

Did you not cry watching Passion or

Also Cordy becomes the bestest the moment she stands up to Harmony.

of course i cried watching "passion"! but he's not the same guy who did that, imo he and buffy are legit in love, it's not angel's fault he's a vamp

idk tho a month or so ago i learned that you guys don't like chris from gilmore girls, which blew my mind!

Kevin hitting up s3 made me return- watched Faith, Hope and Trick. I think I can still quote the whole season word by word. <3 Faith freaking out when cloven hands guy comes back. I really can't think of another show who would put such emotional responsibility onto a new character in their first episode. May have to go watch Band Candy now.

(Man I am such a Whedon geek. I was kinda hoping it would go away if I ignored it but no. Buffy at its best is better than any tv ever. And possibly better than any moving pictures ever filmed. Maybe.)

Chris was always kinda boring. He was supposed to be the rebel- which never really worked; then he settled down to be mr. boring character and then... he just wasn't luke? i dunno.

well i've only seem a little more than 3 seasons of GG (gonna finish 4 after buffy s3 and the wire s3) but he's just such a likeable guy imo, i mean most of the time i prefered luke but chris has heart

but anyway im gonna go play basketball and then watch another ep or 2

WHY IS EVERYONE SO MEAN TO BUFFY?!?

god i know those episodes in the beginning are so painful to watch. i love her!

Willow and Xander should have been horsewhipped for the way they treated Buffy in that episode.

:D i'm glad you guys feel that way, it wa so weird, i seriously thought it was one of her many dream sequences! they just kept being meaner and meaner

srsly i kinda hate that episode, everyone's just horrible and I don't think it fits the characters.

the one where spike comes back is great though, basically every time spike and joyce hang out it's pure gold.

""get the hell away from my daughter"?"

Well, to play the devil's advocate, Buffy completely disappeared without any contact, leaving them alone with a town full of demons so she could find herself for a few months. And she really kinda treated her mother like crap considering everything that got dumped on her at the end of S2. Then she comes back after all that without a ton of remorse about it. Sure, she had her reasons, but I didn't think they were too overly harsh. Teen angst!

they had a reason to be upset but i'd agree with the out-of-character criticism, that's exactly the same way i felt

agreed also about spike and buffy's mom, great running gag

haha THEY KILLED CORDI AGAIN but the whole episode was kind of a wash (s3e09), you basically knew all the stuff happening in bizarro world was just gonna get undone anyway.

they had a reason to be upset but i'd agree with the out-of-character criticism, that's exactly the same way i felt

Yeah, it's weird -- once or twice every season, someone will do something that feels out-of-character or outlandish purely to motivate a storyline, and it riles me up WAY more on Buffy than it would on any other show. Maybe because otherwise the characters are so well-drawn and consistent?

This thread is killing me, I want to go back and watch S3 but I don't have the tiiiiiiiiime

ok so right after a pretty average episode they go and throw an "amends" at us

glad oz and will seem to be back on track...tbh xander is getting on my nerves and he doesnt deserve cordi.

the end of this episode where angel wants to kill himself and buffy argues him out of it is really moving, that conversation had so many layers and when buffy told him she loved him i lost it. seems like he's still gotta get whatever that evil force is/jenny calendar off his back? and where is spike!

Anya has turned up! Spike went back for Dru didn't he to compete against the fungus demon for her affections?

Xander is basically a dick, see. Watching him descend to that level of dickishness is uncomfortable but I think true to his character. I think in the second half of season 2 he finally felt that (with Angel discredited) he could be the hero both for the group and for Buffy personally, and Angel's return infuriated him for that reason more than any other.

(i still like him though - his dickishness feels rather sympathetic to me)

i know what you're saying but i just can't take him being such a selfish prick all the time, plus EVERY TIME there's a tense situation he has the lamest one-liners, STOP IT ALREADY

and lol as if i couldn't dislike joyce any more, she's a crazy witchhunting right-winger

that wasn't her fault; she was under the influence of those children of the corn! joyce is the best.

willow's mom is an asshole though

Ok, Band Candy was when I warmed to Joyce. By the end of season 4 though, she was absolutely <3

i eventually warmed up to Joyce, too. Xander, unfortunately...

WHAAAAAAT

Wait, what's the what, k3v???

just watched "consequences" - it's the one after faith kills the deputy mayor and she tries to blame buffy.

gotta say i kinda was loving faith when she was toying with xander in her room, even tho i was feeling bad for xander for once when he was sulking after finding out that faith basically had no interest in him. poor willow too, but she has oz!

anyway so now she's gonna team up with the mayor?? ruh-roh!

It begins... :D

the next episode up is totally classic, and contains what might be my favorite Angel moment on Buffy. Bear in mind that I didn't like Angel that much when he was on Buffy and I mostly enjoyed dumb jokes at his expense.

I started watching S3 again but that disc w/ Bad Girls and Consequences on is dead from scratches. :(

<3 kev watching this for the first time. did the zeppo make you start liking xander? he's supposed to be pathetic and awkward, like we would be if we knew buffy's secret

The run of episodes from Consequences to the Finale is a pretty amazing sustained feat of brilliance IMO.

god i could have sworn this demon guy in "enemies" was the same guy who played Ziggy on the wire...same exact voice

nb haven't finished the ep yet

"...second best"

*slow-mo wtf head turn*

!!!!!!!

god if angel ever for real turns again i don't think my heart can take it

Speaking of (but not spoilerizing), are you at all considering a trip down Angel lane once you've wrapped up your Buffy glut? Because, although the shows are certainly two different animals and Angel doesn't really seem to have a very solid concept of what it wants to be for a good part of its first season, it really gets very, very good as it progresses. And it takes the arcs of certain popular Buffy characters to magnificent heights (and lows!!!).

i'm thinking i'll probably get around to that over the summer, depending on where i am with buffy and the wire. should i watch them side by side? would it be bad to finish buffy first?

Ehh...aside from a couple of crossover episodes in Buffy season 4/Angel season 1, they're pretty separate. There are definitely some good arguments for watching at least the crossover episodes in question when the time comes, but I think you'd be fine watching Angel straight through after the fact, as well.

Season 1 of Angel/Season 4 of Buffy are linked in a way that you most probably want to watch them side by side. If only for *OH MY FUCKING GOD BEST EPISODES EVER*- sorry, no spoilers and all that.

After that Angel meets a gay karoake demon and turns into a comedy and forgets about its sister show.

Though it's probably not worth doing the whole project of watching the series simultaneously, I liked the way Angel S4/Buffy S7 did some cool intersections/character trading... though it's my favorite Angel season and the worst Buffy season.

is this where i say that altho i <3 buffy 4e the last four episodes of angel are the most awesome buffyverse send-off we cud have expected

Yeah, without a doubt!

So this is the part where I sadly admit that (despite owning it for probably 5+ years at this point), I only ever made it halfway through that last season of Angel. And it was so good even up to the point where I stopped! I don't know what's wrong with me. But I'm actually really excited by the prospect of rewatching the whole series as a precursor to finishing the damn thing already.

i kinda think angel is pretty bad until the last series or two. The last few episodes are this ridic jump in quality tho.

First season is a little hard to get through, it's barely above Charmed quality. Some of the Darla stuff in S2 was all right, and S3 had some fun stuff, especially with Holtz and that thing with the talking cheeseburger. But yeah, the last two seasons are way way better than the rest of it. Deric, don't feel bad about skipping to S4, seriously!

I agree that S1 was a little sketchy until it found its footing (around the time of the Buffy crossovers), but I really, really liked the majority of what followed. Especially since it was kind of all one big story that just kept building! Like, I have a really hard time demarcating the individual seasons of Angel in my head the way I can with Buffy.

The network fucked with ANGEL relentlessly early on. One ep it's dark and moody and For Grownups, the next it's all madcap hijinx. You need to get through Season 1. After that the suits basically stopped caring and turned their eyes to other things and things got much, much better.

I can make you an 'angel the way it should be watched' complete list if you want.

I'd read and probably use that list (seen every episode of Buffy and pretty much none of Angel).

I'll get on it after my caffeine boost.

First season of angel is v. poor but i think the episode abt Doyle is v. good. Really think it starts picking up in the 2nd though, the darla stuff is v. good and the flashbacks and whatnot. Also Wesley is immense.

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 1>

City Of- Pilot, pretty important.

Lonely Heart- Introduction of Kate.

In The Dark- Spike + Oz + Torture

RM W/A VU- A+ Cordy ep.

The Bachelor Party- Precursor to Pangs on Buffy, which in itself is a precursor to...

I Will Remember You- BUFFY! On Angel!

Hero- Doyle's important episode.

Parting Gifts- The return of Wesley.

Somnambulist- Angel v. Fake Angel, Kate starts to learn about vamps n shit.

The Prodigal- More Kate. Kinda dull but for story's sake.

The Ring- Angel turns Fight Club.

Eternity- ANGELUS!

Five by Five- omg faith omg faith omg faith

Sanctuary- omg faith omg buffy aswell!

War Zone- First Gunn episode.

(Blind Date's description sounds like it could be worth watching but I don't remember it. Will watch later to say whether it is worth it or not.)

To Shanshu In LA- Finale fun times.

Overall this turns a 5/10 season into a 7/10 season. Had to keep some kind of boring episodes so you meet new characters etc.

Episodes that skips: I Fall To Pieces (boring monster of the week), Sense & Sensitvity (Kate back story), The Bachelor Party (Doyle back story), Expecting (lol pregnant cordy), She (meh other dimension chick angel wants to bone), I've Got You Under My Skin (monster of the week), Blind Date (maybe).

Will do Season 2 in a bit.

oh god, pregnant cordy episode ws horrendous.

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 2>

I've looked it up and you can't really cut out any episodes. Maybe First Impressions but that is all lol cordy goes to the ghetto and why would you want to miss that?

Best season imo.

aw man, that Angel in the monster Fight Club thing was so cheesy, like so many Star Trek meets Spartacus episodes

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 3>

That Vision Thing- Important Cordy ep iirc.

That Old Gang of Mine- Gunn + Fred adjusting to new life.

Fredless- Fred's parents.

Offspring- Darla shiz. Important ep, the name itself a spoiler.

Quickening- Aftermath of Offspring.

Lullaby- Introduction of Connor and Holtz.

Dad- ummmmm...

Birthday- Cordy gets her own tv show!

Waiting In The Wings- WS Summer Glau

Couplet- Cordy's knight in shining armour returns.

Loyalty- Wesley! omg!

Sleep Tight- See last description.

Forgiving- See last two descriptions, but for different reasons. Also ;_; Angel.

Double Or Nothing- Kinda lame monster of the week ep, but good for Fred+Gunn.

A New World- Connor returns!

Benediction- Lots of important shit. Amazing episode iirc.

Tomorrow- Anti-climatic after Benediction but v. v. v. v. important.

Episodes I skipped> Heartthrob (kind of lame, only worth it for Darla's big news that you'll find out about later anyway.), Carpe Noctum (monster of the week type, angel swaps personalities w/ an old dude), Billy (wolfram & hart are evil), Provider (monster of the week x. 4 as the gang are spread out), The Price (monster of the week).

yeah it was cheesy as hell but I liked it. Plus iirc it's got some good early Wolfram & Hart stuff, especially w/ the chick Wesley will go on to bone.

oh yeah i totally forgot about her! she was also on that Kindred: The Embraced show

Whole Connor arc is fucked up beyond belief. It feels like they were constantly changing their mind abt what they wanted to do with him.

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 4>

Deep Down- Wow, so that's where Cordy is? lol never saw that coming when I first saw Welcome To The Hellmouth.

Ground State- This week on Angel, 'Alias!' But without Jennifer Garner and cute actress instead, so it's kind of fun.

The House Always Wins- Lorne has his own show in Vegas!

Slouching Towards Bethlehem- Cordy returns as amnesiac girl.

Apocalypse, Nowish- Wooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Habeas Corpses- Connor + Big Bad= Woah.

Long Day's Journey + Awakening = More Beast.

Soulless- Well you can guess.

Calvary + Salvage + Release + Orpheus- Angelus v. Faith = best tv ever, really.

Players- Pregnant Cordy, but not in a lame way like the episode in S1.

Inside Out- Angel has a lol conversation with a demon about the Matrix. Can't remember any other part, may have to pull out the vhs.

Shiny Happy People- Wussherface from Firefly! Oh shit.

Actually, all of the last 4 episodes worth watching.

Episodes I skipped> Supersymmetry (Boring Fred ep), Spin The Bottle (The exact same episode as Tabula Rasa on Buffy).

Yeah Connor is Dawn Pt. 2 in boring shrieking teenagers. Joss obv split too much between shows to give the writers a slap.

Inside Out and maybe Habeas Corpses can go on the Skipped pile.

ANGEL> THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WATCHED>

SEASON 5>

Conviction- Angel: Now part Angel, part Angelus, but 100% bad ass.

Just Rewards- Spike first ep so important, but kinda dull iirc.

Lineage- lol remember when Wesley was a watcher? Oh those were the days.

Destiny- important Spike/Angel flashbacky type episode.

Harm's Way- man oh man do I love Harmony. Daughter of an Arsenal player + Star of Buffy = Perfect Female imo.

Soul Purpose- More soul shit. Also I really did not care for new Spike.

Damage- Andrew! With news about post-ending Buffy! Wooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

You're Welcome- ;_;

Smile Time- Funniest episode of Angel. Up there w/ Storyteller, Life Serial, Superstar and Earshot as funniest of all Buffyverse imo.

A Hole In The World- ;_; x a billion

Shells- aftermath of previous ep.

Underneath- Lindsay was always a strange name for a boy character.

Origin- wtf? Connor?

Time Bomb- Good episode about Illryia.

The Girl In Question- Going to Rome to find Buffy.

Powerplay- Penultimate ep, important.

Not Fade Away- Best fucking ending to a tv show ever?

Skipped episodes> Unleashed (motw is a werewolf), Hell Bound (Spike became kinda rubbish after the sexbot, ps kevin if you are reading this it is yr own fault), Life Of The Party (lorne throws a party, kinda lol, mostly snore), The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco (Angel celebrates the achievements of Rey Mysterio, booyacka booyacka 619), Why We Fight (awkward 'i wonder what spike and angel did during ww2' fanfic).

Now go forth and enjoy.

I most probably have been more brutal but fuck it, I do still <3 this show.

the girl in question is my favourite ep of buffy/angel ever

This reminds me, I have never seen the last two episodes of angel bcuz my dvd player broke and i then decided to save it so i wld always have something to antcipate in the buffy/angel verse.

gf has never seen buffy or angel so i could watch the whole thing from the start right through. This is a terrifyingly exciting project.

do it!

if you want an abridged buffy then i'll do it but it'll basically be 'umm, just skip most of season 7'.

oh and she doesn't need to see i robot, you jane.

that is not true i love that one, beer bad on the other hand...

i feel sorry for season seven.

oh boy, i think i had actually blocked out beer bad. however the one where willow gets drunk = a+

my sister bought a magazine once for a ranked list of buffy episodes, we both guessed right off the bat abt beer bad being the bottom

I think abt the first half of season 4 is pretty shaky (picks up around the initiative?) The one with the cher listening roomate is v. bad but not on a par with beer bad.

Wild At Heart + Fear Itself are fucking awesome.

Giles w/ a chainsaw!

my sister bought a magazine once for a ranked list of buffy episodes, we both guessed right off the bat abt beer bad being the bottom

― plaxico (I know, right?), Wednesday, 10 February 2010 11:37 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Seems about right. Although maybe that one episode of S7 where Buffy makes the same speech for 35 minutes could be worse.

hmm, you are right.

Should really check episode lists before hating on things.

i actually LOVE the one with the demon roommate, though it was a perfect introduction to college-hellmouth stuff, though the rest of the stories in that vein... not so great

s4 is just.. ok for the most part. I mean it's better than s7, probably better than s1. not sayin' a ton there

The fact that I am considering doing a Buffy guide/maybe a ranking makes me think someone needs to give me a job right fucking now.

S4 has some of the best episodes: Wild At Heart, Hush, the Faith ones, the whole last disc, Superstar but its lows are proper OMG JUST KILL RILEY ALREADY HE WAY BORING

i feel like the moment when tv shows become abt characters making "inspirational speeches" is the shark jumping of the 00s

Fuck it, I have an hour to kill before my volunteer work-

A COMPLETE GUIDE TO BUFFY COS I IS BORED AND HAVE ALREADY DONE MY MORNING JOB SEARCH AND IF KEVIN READS PAST WHEREEVER HE IS HE DESERVES TO GET SPOILEREDEREDED>

SEASON 1>

Welcome To The Hellmouth- Pilot. Also v. v. awesome. 9.

The Harvest- lol sunrise joek and Giles at the end. 9.

Witch- Amy! Killer cheerleaders! 9.

Teacher's Pet- Skip it. Xander nearly has sex w/ a giant bug thing/teacher and they may make joeks about this in future but you only need to know the reference. 3.

Never Kill A Boy On The First Date- Part of the story but not that good. 5.

The Pack- Another Xander MOTW type. Worth it only because of the scene w/ the principal. 6.

Angel- The moment you knew this show could turn out to be great. 8.

I Robot, You Jane- Skip it. Only thing you'll miss is INTERNET DEMON and also Giles has a crush on computer teacher/part time wiccan Jenny Calender. 1.

The Puppet Show- looool. 9.

Nightmares- Buffy as a vampire, Xander chased by clowns. Restless did it better. Can skip it if you want. 4.

Out of Mind, Out of Sight- I <3 this episode, Cordy kills it and starts to become a human character. Also first sign of the prophecy. 9.

Prophecy Girl- Sarah Michelle Gellar is one of the great underrated actresses. 10.

Skip- Teacher's Pet, I Robot, You Jane, Nightmares to make a 7/10 season.

if the pack is the zoo one then that is all time classic and ur criteria is fucked

imo

dude you love lists don't you

OMG, the hyaenas!

Acht restless did do it much better but the little kid in nightmares was v good.

A COMPLETE GUIDE TO BUFFY COS I IS BORED AND HAVE ALREADY DONE MY MORNING JOB SEARCH AND IF KEVIN READS PAST WHEREEVER HE IS HE DESERVES TO GET SPOILEREDEREDED>

SEASON 2>

When She Was Bad- SMG <3 u boo. 9.

Some Assembly Required- MOTW, kinda dull. Maybe if you want some insight into Cordy but skip it. 3.

School Hard- SPIKE! DRU! JOYCE W/ AN AXE! 10.

Inca Mummy Girl- I'm so glad they stopped having Xander nearly gets it on w/ lol creatures episodes. WS Mummy tho. 2.

Reptile Boy- MOTW Snore. 1.

Halloween- Introduction of Oz iirc? Also LOL, so fucking great. 8.

Lie To Me- Joss Whedon officially makes this more than just a vampire teen show. 10.

The Dark Age- Worth it for insight into Ripper. Plus <3 Jenny. 6.

What's My Line Pt. 1- Kendra! Willy the snitch! Angel! Ice skating! It has it all really. 9.

What's My Line Pt. 2- See above + Xander and Cordy. 9.

Ted- Best MOTW episode of the season. 7.

Bad Eggs- Continues Angel/Buffy and Xander/Cordy smooching, not really worth it for anything else other than boiled egg joke. Skip it. 2.

Surprise- Wait a second is this actually... 9.

Innocence- THE BEST TV SHOW EVER? 10.

Phases- Oz! As a werewolf! <3 Willow too. 8.

Bewitiched, Bothered and Bewildered- Kinda funny, SMG in skimpy clothing always a must, Cordy kills it. 7.

Passion- ;_; 10.

Killed By Death- MOTW kinda lame. Skip it. 3.

I Only Have Eyes For You- The Flamingos are awesome and this episode is pretty good too. 7.

Go Fish- Fuck me, did I just call this the best show ever? Skip it. 2.

Becoming Pt. 1- OH YEAH BEST FUCKING SHOW EVER. 10.

Becoming Pt. 2- I don't think I'm ever going to stop ;_; 10.

Skip- Some Assembly Required, Inca Mummy Girl, Reptile Boy, Bad Eggs, Killed By Death, Go Fish.

yeah lists and I are total bros.

The Pack gets marked down for being a bit easy motw type of thing. The end is kind of lame too. But Xander kills it and no other high school show has the balls to eat the principal.

A COMPLETE GUIDE TO BUFFY COS I IS BORED AND HAVE ALREADY DONE MY MORNING JOB SEARCH AND IF KEVIN READS PAST WHEREEVER HE IS HE DESERVES TO GET SPOILEREDEREDED>

SEASON 3> Watch all of it except Gingerbread. Earshot and Graduation Day Pt. 1 rival any television ever made. Would give a 9 or 10 to Faith Hope And Trick, Band Candy, Amends, Bad Girls, Consequences, Earshot, The Prom, GD Pt. 1 & 2.

i only have eyes is another of my faves fyi

Realised I was going to love Buffy 4eva after Giles's getting-of-knowledge speech in I Robot. Was a post-grad at the time, smell of old paper & bindings major feature of my life.

I don't remember such a speech and now feel bad that i might have to watch it again

although buffy at its worst >>>>> charmed and all attempts to steal the buffy formula.

It's close to the end. And the v v end has that 'Hey our love-lives are screwed hahaha' scene which was v winning as well. Really strong final mins on a toss episode in fact. Maybe skip the first 40?

A COMPLETE GUIDE TO BUFFY COS I IS BORED AND HAVE ALREADY DONE MY MORNING JOB SEARCH AND IF KEVIN READS PAST WHEREEVER HE IS HE DESERVES TO GET SPOILEREDEREDED>

SEASON 4>

The Freshman- Made me pick up Of Human Bondage when I saw it in a charity shop, so A+ for that. Also Xander's Yoda speech. 7.

Living Conditions- Not sure how anyone who's lived in halls can not like this episode. A bit close to home perhaps? 7.

The Harsh Light of Day- Alright Spike episode. Has lol Ripper listened to the Velvet Underground scene. 6.

Fear Itself- Anya as a bunny! Giles with a chainsaw! That small joke at the end! 10.

Beer Bad- Kevin don't watch it. -1.

Wild At Heart- ;_; in a bad way. 9.

The Initiative- lol xander v. harmony fight. 7.

Pangs- Angel! On Buffy! Plus lol Spike at thanksgiving! And syphilis jokes! 8.

Something Blue- Kevin if you are reading this, you will finally understand why Spike's name was mentioned in the name of people Buffy got it on with. Willow casts a spell that goes wrong and lol spike and buffy like each other. Mildly humorous. 6.

Hush- This + Wall-e = Silent storytelling should have a full on revival. 10.

Doomed- Apocalpyse no. 5 or 6? 6.

A New Man- Oh gilespaws. 6.

The I In Team- I understand the whole Riley situation, it doesn't mean I have to like him though. 4.

Goodbye Iowa- See above. 3.

This Year's Girl- Best tv show ever. 10.

Who Are You- See above pt. 2, Faith is <3. 10.

Superstar- Jonathon brings the lols. 10.

Where The Wild Things Are- Riley sexing brings the quality back down. Skipt it. 2.

New Moon Rising- Oz! Tara! <3 Willow tho. 9.

The Yoko Factor/Primeval- lol spike, lol drunk giles, lol stealing from the matrix before it became a huge cliche. 8/8.

Restless- Tara! Vailed clues about Dawn and what happens at the end of season 5! Giles singing! Joyce coming on to Xander! THE CHEESY GUY! 9.

and thats that for now. sorry for ruining thread.

Ted- Best MOTW episode of the season. 7.

I think this is also a pretty important episdoe in the development of the psychology of Buffy. There's stuff set up in this episode that has repercussions right through the rest of seasons 2 and 3.

Agree that Earshot is amazing television.

those lists make me happy. thanks.

Life Of The Party (lorne throws a party, kinda lol, mostly snore),

this one is written by Ben Edlund and is thus HILAIRE

Angel comment: the ep "Expecting" where Cordy is preggers was ;_; for me. It's cheeseball but you know, that moment when she wakes up and she's like 8 mos preg and having sex doesn't mean you deserve to die, but she blames herself... Yes, it's the same old Joss message but somehow her utter panic and incomprehension that morning just tore me up.

whoa guys should i skip all these posts or is it safe?

Well considering you are mentioned in the title...

Will do 567 after I eat.

Kev- I tried to stay as spoiler free as possible but there is sometimes it was impossible not to mention stuff.

after this + the thread about blog projects, I thought about doing the whole whedonverse but then i'd have to watch alien resurrection again and find the comics. on the plus side though, any excuse to watch toy story.

k3v, dude, just start a new thread. Sam's lists (though awesome) are spoileriffic enough that I'd feel bad if you accidentally read them.

i would totally read a k3vin watches buffy for the first time thread

i totally would but i think it's too late now - i don't have season 4 and i've only got a few eps left of season 3

get season four then.

disagreements:

Couplet is godawful, Habeas Corpses is great, Inside Out is a little iffy but really important, The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco was the first episode of the fifth season I actually liked, Soul Purpose has some hilarious shit in it, A Hole in the World has terrible writing.

Killed By Death has that nifty Angelus-Xander standoff in the hospital, Go Fish has Cordy giving a heartfelt speech to a huge fish. Where the Wild Things Are does suck but has completely amazing Giles in coffee shop scene that redeems all.

for those interested: kevin k watches "buffy the vampire slayer" and no one talks about episodes he hasn't seen yet

Killed By Death has that nifty Angelus-Xander standoff in the hospital, Go Fish has Cordy giving a heartfelt speech to a huge fish.

I quite like both of these episdoes, their monster-of-the-weekness was vaguely relieving in the context of the grimness of the surrounding episodes. Xander got to play hero in both, and IIRC the fish-dude Buffy flirted with was pretty hot.

the fish-dude Buffy flirted with was pretty hot.

EXTREMELY hot and went on to be the star of that show Prison Break!! Never realized that until I rewatched the Buffy eps last year.

And Mariah Carey videos. Girl likes her tv.

I don't think I can rate American tv on the basis of how attractive people are considering everyone is too ridiculously pretty.

Plus, american colleges only offer two courses: American Football and Musicals.

Finally (finally!) got around to watching Angel Season 5, which was just as good and entertaining as I'd hoped. Only started watching Angel with Season 3, though -- is there anything in the first two seasons worth checking out?

Yes!

See above! (But basically- Buffy/Faith episodes, Hero, RM W/A VU, the Pilot and last ep; all of season 2).

Yeah, you might as well for completion's sake, I suppose. They've been running S2 on TNT at the moment and it's better than I remembered.

Watching the show again because of a hoy hoy's lists. Up to What's My Line. Love this show.

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Basically agree with all yr ratings so far. I had forgotten how great The Puppet Show and School Hard are.

<3 joyce w/ an axe forever

There's always such a sense of IMPENDING DOOM hanging over watching season 2. Even though so much of the second half is so good I'm kind of dreading its arrival.

Passion- ;_; 10.

^^^^^

;_; forever.

My vhs player is broken and for some inexplicable reason I cannot find my s6 dvd set so I am downloading s6&7 to do their rating list thingys. I most probably could do them off by heart but they are the only 2 seasons where some episodes stump me.

A shame season 3 was too good for you to do an ep-by-ep breakdown.

'Killed By Death' - MOTW elevated by the pathos of childhood fears (see also 'Nightmares'). Plus one of my favourite Xander/Cordelia conversations ever:

Xander: Someone's got to watch her back.

Cordelia: I've seen you watch her back...

etc.

i can do a season 3 later.

Do it!

Actually 'Killed By Death' is def. one of the best Cordelia episodes ever. Like when Buffy's mom walks in on them in Buffy's hospital room and she's like "I feel like I've interrupted a secret meeting" and Cordelia laughs and says "You certainly didn't!" Or when she's asking Giles about what all the demons do and Giles finally says "it asks annoying and irrelevant questions so that nothing ever gets done!" and she says "wow they have a demon for everything, don't they!" And then it cuts to her on the phone with Buffy and she says "It's call Derkendersot" and Buffy's like "who is this??"

A COMPLETE GUIDE TO BUFFY COS I IS BORED AND HAVE ALREADY DONE MY MORNING JOB SEARCH AND IF KEVIN READS PAST WHEREEVER HE IS HE DESERVES TO GET SPOILEREDEREDED>

SEASON 3>

ANNE- Best Gandhi joke ever? Like 'When She Was Bad' it is actually pretty brutal when you think about it. For all of the characters this time, not just Buffy. And I love the drawback to forgotten characters in that world, and what they do after facing almost certain death. 10.

DEAD MANS PARTY- Kinda lol, an episode that needed to happen but not going to blow you away. 6
FAITH, HOPE AND TRICK- omfg. I genuinely can't think of another TV show that would put such emotional trauma onto a new character and expect them to pull it off effortlessly. 10.

BEAUTY AND THE BEASTS- One of the first MOTW episodes that seemed so much more than normal tv MOTW episodes. It's the first time we are made to question Oz's otherside no? How to react when he murders, even if it isn't him, kinda? When he *****************spoilers************ eats the evil wifebeater dude at the end, are we still ok with it? etc. etc. Quite funny above all of it, and a very smart way of dealing with post-killing-my-soulmate-Buffy. 9.

HOMECOMING- <3 Cordy. Xander and Willow are bad bad people. Mr. Trick is kinda lol. 7.

BAND CANDY- <3 Ripper. <3 Snyder. <3 just about everything in this episode tbh. A shame Ethan Rayne wasn't used more often. In a top 5 list of funniest Buffy episodes and thus is an automatic 10.

REVELATIONS- Giles gets his lol on. Faith v. Buffy! The gang confront Buffy and Willow is the sweetest when trying to talk to her. Giles then breaks every viewers heart when he tells Buffy she has no respect for him. Amazing. 10.

LOVER'S WALK- Drunk Spike = lol. For this it would just be a 6 or a 7 episode but Cordy incident and then fake reveal gives everyone a freaking heart attack. Just shows how strong a bond the show has built between all the characters, the emotional implications and the viewers. 10.

THE WISH- Bizarro world Willow! The acting is actually good enough to scare a little. By this point the show barely seems like it belongs as lol teen horror w/ demons and magic and shit and of course it isn't these details which make it scary but the hopelessness. 8.

AMENDS- Don't really like or care for the idea of the first. Didn't even before lol s7 but I'm sure i'll go into more detail about it then. The sweet end makes up for it though. And I like the shot of Xander being snowed on. 6.

GINGERBREAD- Meh. A couple lols I guess. And Amy incident sets up many, many lols for the future. 4.

HELPLESS- I don't think Rory and Lorelei or Dookie & Michael come close to the bond between Giles and Buffy. Maybe Dookie & Michael. Interesting premise, excellently handled. 9.

THE ZEPPO- Pretty lol but doesn't hold up to the standards of the episodes around it. Not really this episodes fault considering they are the pinacle of television. Also APOCALPYSE NO. 4 . 7.

BAD GIRLS- OMFG. OMFG. OMFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFG. FAITH! NO! FAAAAAAAITH! 10.

CONSEQUENCES- See Bad Girls. 10.

DOPPELGANGLAND- "I'm all fuzzy". Pretty good insight into Willow. "Hey, you didn't all go and do a bunch of drugs, did ya?" Understandably repeated with The Replacement considering Xander has a real life twin bro. 8.

ENEMIES- "Second best." Slow motion turn round. "You played me!" FIGHT. Fucking hell, a million heart attacks. 10.

EARSHOT- Funniest episode of Buffy? "I mean, what even is a Mulligan?" "Was it a boy demon?" "Their spelling has certainly improved." The review of Dingoes and Oz agreeing with it. Buffy finding out about what the Band Candy did. I fucking love this episode. 10.

CHOICES- "Why couldn't you be dealing drugs like normal students?" Snider kills it. Willow is amazing. Faith's dagger ;_;. 9.

THE PROM- Surprisingly MOTW but the umbrella saves it. 7.

GRADUATION DAY PT 1. - May actually be my favourite episode of Buffy? So so so unbelievably great on so so so many levels. Def. best fight in all of Buffy at the end. 11.

GRADUATION DAY PT 2. - ***********************spoilers****************** poor harmony. Giles is sweet at the end. Pretty fucking epic. 9.

<3 <3

AMENDS- Don't really like or care for the idea of the first. Didn't even before lol s7 but I'm sure i'll go into more detail about it then. The sweet end makes up for it though. And I like the shot of Xander being snowed on. 6.

dude the climax to buffy/angel on hill is amazing!

Having Jenny play The First was good though.

My main issue with The First later on is that it had this awesome trick (and one spin on it in particular) that it hardly ever used, and certainly not to the maximum level of devastation (generally and in the specific sense of emotional devestation) it called for.

Looking at the list makes Season 3 look a lot darker than I remember it. I guess it is though.

btw im watching s4 of gilmore girls and the guy who plays the head of yale's student paper is the same guy who plays jonathan in buffy!

lol jonathon becomes quite a big character in gg!

that said he will always be jonathon to me, esp. after SUPERSTAR

# Buffy [Started by Will McKenzie in October 2001, last updated 1 minute ago by he might have even have gone in. (a hoy hoy)] 13 new answers
# Biting people: c/d [Started by sucka (sucka) in December 2003, last updated 3 minutes ago by I see what this is (Local Garda)] 1 new answer

amazing.

My s7 download is going faster than my s6 so I'm watching Chosen before the football. I forgot how PERFECT the cold open is. If only the season in anyway lived up to what was before its first credit sequence...

Willow and Giles in England! Harry Potter references that Giles rolls his eyes at. Oh man...

***********************SPOILERS KEVIN DO NOT READ**************************

Spike in the basement was stupid.

Buffy got pretty bad camel toe.

Having Mayor Wilkins at the end was really really fucking annoying. Getting rid of the MOTW kinda lame and anti-climatic. Could have been a classic but isn't.

CHOSEN- 7.

first big speech of the season (there are many, many, fucking hundreds of them more)- 9.

god fuck the speeches

SEASON 7-

BENEATH YOU-
Cold open- lol someones seen Run Lola Run. One thing that annoys me is how does anyone know who potential slayers are, do they not have any strength or power or anything before Faith dies? Are they just normal non-super girls? How the hell does the council then scower the world to find out that one non-super girl is special?

Some good LOLs, many about how trampy they all are. Anya and Buffy both great at being super vulnerable. Dawn is good when she isn't being a whiny teenager.

8.

SPEECHWATCH- Spike goes on for about 5 minutes at the end. 7.

ARGH......... first episode is called Lessons. The last episode is called Chosen.

SAME TIME, SAME PLACE- First off, no speeches, so yay. Also pretty funny (callback to Doppelgangland; Anya making Dawn salute). Gnarl eating Willow's skin also genuinely creepy. Spike stuff still not handled correctly and you can tell Whedon's stamp isn't on it- watching it you could tell, much like Beneath You, that it could have done with another re-write/edit. This is feeling that unfortunately happens too often in Season 7. 7.

HELP-

SPOILER-FUCKING-RIFIC SO KEV LOOK AWAY

Cold open- Ok so this is something I've never seen discussed when it comes to the Buffyverse but considering this starts with them breaking into somewhere, it seems as good a place as any. In Angel it is obvious that they make half of their money doing crime. Hell, Gunn is kinda introduced as a car thief. The second half comes from a rich benefactor who likes to roleplay. In Buffy it is less obvious. Giles opens the store but it burns the shit down. Anya didn't make enough at the store to live fancily. Buffy didn't make that much at Doublemeat Palace and it is left open whether she even works there after the episode. Xander can't support them all by being a bricky. Did Joyce leave them a ton of money? It's never mentioned. So... they live on crime, right? Faith was right all along.

HELP- Hey remember when google was new and you could make joeks about it? also LOL Willow Doogie Howser fanfic. <3 the continuing new Dawn direction.

Cassie is heartbreaking. 9.

Are these more cryptic summations or is my memory of season 7 just totally shot?

Would Buffy qualify for social security for caring for Dawn? I don't know how it works in the US really but she would in Australia.

Joyce left money but it was all spent on medical bills and house bills by the time Buffy was revived. Giles was pretty well off but I don't think he was around at the beginning of S7. S6 seems to have a lot of scraping by, I suppose Giles could be helping out financially from a distance in S7.

And the potentials, I think there must be a way of finding them, they usually get tracked down by watchers and trained years before they become slayers (It would explain what the hell the Watchers' Council are doing with their time when there's only one slayer to look after). My memory of S7 is patchy but I think it gets mentioned in one of the speeches that they're stronger than normal but nowhere near slayer strength.

Tim: Partial liveblogging obv going to be different to crazy memory of watching something too many times. Each episode has started w/ lol slayer being murdered. And other than jeeeez spike as crazy guy in the basement (he says in Lessons that he is there because he has always had a connection to it but ? don't think he's ever gone near the hellmouth ? not sure he even ever went into the old library) its all been a bit MOTW so if you don't remember the specific episodes I guess the clues would seem cryptic.

SEASON 7 CONT.-

SELFLESS- Best episode since Once More W/ Feeling. Possibly in my POX even. Making Anya the best character was such a terrific move, she breaks my heart every time. 10.

Selfless is my favourite ever Buffy episode - even taking into account the horrible CGI spider near the start.

So glad all of the seasons are going to be on Neflix on demand soon, a rewatch is in order. I don't feel like I gave seasons 6 & 7 much of a chance.

Eh, iirc S7's quality drops off dramatically any episode soon. Its not long until my liveblogging really just becomes SPEECHWATCH

Also forgot to say **********************kevin if you read this then well you know****************************** lol foreshadowing of xander getting freaked out when gnarl's eyes are gouged out.

Poor Xander, he's kind of become the Bonaduce of the Buffy cast.

HIM- Turning Dawn into lol kid sister mini-Giles was an inspired move. Shame they didn't have more time to play with it. also lol shins zach braff stop haunting me.

The episode is just a rehash of previous Buffy episodes without the juicy goodness of Witch, BB&B, The Zeppo etc.

BREEDERS! BREEDERS! OMFG I FORGOT THE DEAL SISTERS WERE IN THIS!

lol lusty aunt and uncle xander & willow having wrong feelings about dawn.

5.

Can skip it but BREEDERS.

Actually bump the score up to 7 for how Anya, Willow and Buffy try to win his heart.

Also explains my previous 'they pay for everything w/ crime, right?' questions.

the season 8 comics are actually a lot more explicit about that, haha

yeah but then i'd have to read comics and ew.

CONVERSATIONS WITH DEAD PEOPLE- If the First can't touch anything or whatever, why is Dawn's bit all hokey poltergist horror movie? <3 buffy w/ the new vamp and andrew/jonathon tho.

7.

SLEEPER- Hmmm. There is nothing wrong with this episode per se but something just feels off about it. Dialogue isn't as punchy or witty or exciting. The story could be made to actually scare but instead its just all a bit limp and 'oh poor spike has demons'. Aimee Mann was good though. 4.

NEVER LEAVE ME- Ok that is how it should be done. Spike-Buffy interactions convincing for the first time this season. Anya-Xander-Andrew was lol. The harbingers, the true vamp, principal wood all sufficiently creepy. OMFG THE COUNCIL. 9.

BRING ON THE NIGHT-

Firstly, speechwatch: this is the first big Buffy speech. If it was the only one, it'd be quite impressive. She doesn't really say anything but it is spoken like someone you trust to follow. 8.

Giles is back with potentials. One has a horrendous cocker-ney accent. One ***spoiler*** runs off to die for absolutely no reason after being the one who says they should trust Buffy. The other one is all dykey but we'll get to that later.

1st as Dru haunting Spike >>>> 1st as Spike or Buffy haunting Spike.

It doesn't make sense why the uber-vamp doesn't kill Buffy when he has the chance.

Andrew related LOLs only thing that isn't super depressing.

6.

SHOWTIME- Buffy has like a billion speeches here. I guess its saved by 'Welcome to the thunderdome'. The fight with the uber vamp and the first using dead potential is kind of cool, i guess, but in reality, if the uber-vamp wasn't wrapped up here I'd tell you to skip it. Andrew also really starting to be great comic relief, especially with the 'what happens when you tie a hostage to a chair too long without remembering toilet breaks' joeks.

5.

POTENTIAL- Really fucking annoying episode that could have been done so so so so much better. Buffy has two looooooong speeches within 5 minutes. Then the premise of the episode is Dawn thinks she is a potential but oh noes she'd have to see Buffy die to become a slayer. Not at one point is the existence of Faith mentioned and it all just seems beyond stupid considering all of the scooby's know better.

2. Skip it.

THE KILLER IN ME- About twelve stories at once, none of which have enough time to be told properly. The pacing of this season is all out of wack. 3. Skip it? Depends on how much you like Willow episodes. Also one very good LOL with Giles.

FIRST DATE- Hey guys, remember Ashanti? I liked Principal Wood, wish they did more with him. 7.

I hated the Ashanti episode so much. I wonder if it has gotten any better/funnier with time.

It didn't have many jokes, other than lol translation problems. I just like the Principal Wood story line. Wish they did more with it.

GET IT DONE- Meh. Some good Andrew jokes as per usual. Chloe bit is v. v. well handled. Buffy's speech after is kinda rubbish. Then she goes to see the people who made the first slayer only to beat the crap out of them. And then she sees hell. 3.

Getting really fucking annoyed considering all of this should be happening to Faith. They could at least occasionally throw out a reason why they treat Buffy as 'the one'.

STORYTELLER- Andrew, Xander/Anya and Dawn are really the only characters I care for anymore. This ranks up there with Superstar, Intervention and Earshot as one of the funniest episodes of the whole show. 10.

LIES MY PARENTS TOLD ME- <3 Giles here. Spike v. Robin Wood (lol at this name btw), equals an alright episode. 7.

DIRTY GIRLS- FINALLY! Faith shows up, Xander sees a big bad too closely. Downright fucking awesome episode, shows Buffy as all speech and no actual leading ability, which we've known forever. 9.

EMPTY PLACES- Mutiny! Except for that, nothing actually happens. Again, the pacing of the season is all wonky. 4. Skip it.

TOUCHED- See above, I guess. Nothing worth seeing that won't be in a future 'Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer'. Goes all 24 at the end. 3.

Gonna stop for a second before discussing End of Days to mention how fucking hacky the bullet-time fight scenes have been in this season. It's really fucking ghastly and they should know better.

END OF DAYS- Wasn't this the title of a shitty Arnie film? WHEELCHAIR FIGHT. EXPLOSIONS. BIG FUCKING SCYTHE THING. ANGEL. DAWN KICKING BUFFY. 9.

CHOSEN- Cookie dough speech good; end kinda lame. Inspirational montage of teenage girl getting abused when she suddenly turns into the slayer super lame; willow as goddess good. giles playing d&d good; faith suddenly talking like butters in that episode of south park where he becomes a pimp kinda lame. the end of caleb good; kinda lame cgi lols when buffy runs at the end. other good bits- dawn getting the last sentence i like, anya saving andrew and then andrew telling xander was kinda heart breaking. wish kennedy died. 6.

SEASON 6 JUST FOR COMPLETIONS SAKE-

BARGAINING PT 1- ;_; Goodbye Giles; Little Britain sucks btw. Watching her wake up in her coffin is suuuuuper creepy, kudos. 8.

BARGAINING PT 2- <3 Tara, she is so perfect here. I hate coincedental good timing in tv- omg its good that Buffy and Dawn escaped the tower from the gift JUST before it fell down even though it stood for months with no problem. Buffy's hands freak me out. 6.

AFTER LIFE- Whedon loves his 'earth = hell' shit don't he? YAWN. MOTW is lame. Again, I just want to give Tara a big hug, she's pretty much the only thing saving this episode. 3. Skip it.

FLOODED- Fucking hell, is there a hackier sitcom storyline than 'i'll fix this tiny leak myself oh wait now we are uber flooded lols on me'? 2. Skip it.

FLOODED- Ok this is why I don't do things on memory alone. Actually quite funny and also Giles! 7.

LIFE SERIAL- Spike plays poker with Clem for kittens! Buffy gets drunk! LOL retail just before I go to work for Tesco! The geeks are just hilarious! One of the 10 funniest Buffy eps. 10.

ALL THE WAY- Better than I remember. Plus the stuff with the costumes is funny. Willow break myTara's heart much? 7.

ONCE MORE WITH FEELING- Second best episode of Buffy obv. Forgot that Tara's song is beyond dirty. Downright fucking naughty. Can't believe I haven't seen this episode in about 2 years and can still remember every lyric. I most probably should have gone outside more as a teenager. 11.

Forgot that Tara's song is beyond dirty.

haha yeah last time i watched this i was like O_O i did not r this c

i don't know what r and c stand for hoosteen

"remember" and "correctly"

cf "iirc"

aha

TABULA RASA- [Xander laughs inaproppriately] "Sorry, just got back the memory of seeing King Ralph." Kinda lol, esp. all the stuff about kitten gambling and then the end with Giles leaving, Tara leaving Willow and Michelle Branch at The Bronze is downright ;_;. 8.

SMASHED- Better than I remember it. Amy is de-ratted. Tara is v. sweet and mum-like to Dawn. The geeks use a freeze-ray to steal a diamond. 7.

WRECKED- Bubbles is the only time TV has got an addict right, isn't it? This is so cliched and hacky. Amy dances around and Willow is so high she's on the ceiling. Yawn. Buffy and Spike have fucked so much that the house fell down. (This starts in SMASHED in a really disorientating fashion. Being a slayer and a vampire I guess they are super powered enough that they can have sex without adjusting their clothes in any fashion to reveal the reproductive bits? Or maybe BTVS directors really like the driest of dry humping?) Alyson Hannigon and the T-berg good enough actors to make the end effective, I guess. Felt this was stupid when I was 14 or whatever when it was made, still feel like it. Wish the makers weren't so busy jacking off the Matrix that they watched something else- had the Wire started yet? 2. I would say skip it but pretty fucking important episode, unfortunately.

GONE- Another very funny episode. The geeks turn Buffy invisible. She cuts her hair. 9.

DOUBLEMEAT PALACE- For all the feminism, for all the wahey lezzas, for all the losing yr virginity to someone who turns out to be evil etc. etc. etc. - it's the episode about fast food that has the most obvious EVIL PENIS metaphor. Having only experience of shitty retail jobs, if not fast food, this now hits home more than it did when it was first on. 7.

DEAD THINGS- The geeks attempt to rape and then kill Warren's ex girlfriend. Frame Buffy for her murder. SMG breaks everyones hearts talking to Tara. (Tara still v. much the star of the season, even if she doesn't get as much screen time anymore.) 9.

OLDER AND FAR AWAY- Meh. Spike is jealous of Buffy. Dawn is sad. Anya's old mate gets them all stuck in the house on Buffy's birthday. Tara gets some LOLs in about Spike's penis. Not really up to the standards of INNOCENCE and HELPLESS. 3. Skip it.

AS YOU WERE- Riley comes back, and he's married! Spike's an... international demon arms dealer? 2. Skip it unless you were a fan of Riley.

HELLS BELLS- Anya+Xander wedding. Funny at times but drags the jokes out too long (haha anya's demon friends and trying to disguise them for Xander's relatives). The vision of evil old man Xander kinda frightening, Emma Claufield ;_;. Not as good as it could have been though. 5.

NORMAL AGAIN- I cannot think of any show that wasn't intentionally fucked up (yr twin peaks and twilight zones) that has had such a meta, fucked up, head fuck of a throwaway episode. Buffy gets attacked in a way that makes her hallucinate as if she is in a mental hospital and the buffyverse is the dream. It's so realistic that she nearly kills everyone she loves. There is no definitive answer on which world is the proper one even when she picks the sunnydale slayer life. Basically, did the Matrix way fucking better than the Wachowskis could ever want it to be. 10.

you know, i need to watch normal again again some time. season 7 is borderline worthless, but that one was v good and upsetting.

he's going through season 6

This episode is very similar to season 4 episode of Charmed, "Brain Drain," where Piper gets her perception of reality altered into thinking she is in a mental hospital and not really a witch. This episode of Charmed aired four months after "Normal Again."

jeez is there anything charmed didn't steal?

loooool i like season 6 even but i don't remember normal again very well.

that episode was totally great, definitely one of the best from a pure horror standpoint on this show.

ugh don't even mention Charmed, that show was such mediocre hackwork. it wasn't even up to the level of most SciFi Channel shows

yeah, i haven't seen it since it aired and i still remember it as vv disturbing in a very meta way. like, this can't be happening this can't be happening this can't be happening... and you know it's not happening, right? because they wouldn't do you like that after all these years... but the minutes keep ticking by with no proof that it's not happening.

still dont get why you think tara is so great?

I was thinking about this and in no particular order:

1. Amber Benson is a fucking beast of an actress.
2. She's great foil for the other characters. She's the only one who seems to actually care about them, and so they are more inclined to open up. This leads to a bunch of important scenes- Willow all over the shop, w/ Buffy in Dead Things, when she acts as Dawn's only mother figure in a bunch of episodes.
3. Her humour is the only one that isn't 'ott we are original buffy characters where everyone has to be witty and sarcastic and talk in a slightly odd way because lol californian teenagers'.
4. For a show that is all about the heartache and the wanting to be stuck in the darkness and so on, she is actually quite sweet and understanding and wants them to be happy and safe.

So basically she is a refreshing change to the group dynamic they sorely needed? Especially in season six where everything is mental problems and sex and death and addiction and etc. And then it makes it all the more shocking and ;_; when bad shit happens to here because Tara is the character not jumping into that dark dank hopeless world but trying to keep them out of it?

Also wikipedia-ing I found out that she is in real life dating the person who killed her in the show. Always find things like this weeeird.

I loved Tara instantly, and for all time.

Working my way through the last stages of season 3 now. So so good.

Best bit of The Zeppo: Buffy and Angel are having one of their torturous sad strings "I love you too much to watch you die" arguments with eyes bulging out of their heads. Xander interrupts and they turn and stare at him like he's an alien. Finally he just asks if they need any help and they can barely shake their heads. He leaves and they turn back to eachother, eyes bulging again as the strings kick back in, like Xander was never there.

haha yes that scene is hilarious.

ha yes how we drop in and out of that argument without context and how fully invested smg & boreanaz are, doesn't seem like a one-off joke, really feels like we've just dropped in mid drama

ENTROPY- (Kind of did not want to watch the end of the season due to omg its so depressing.) Anya comes back, tries to get someone to make a wish about Xander. V. funny scene where she tries to get the lady scoobies to do it and fails. Then gets Spike drunks and has the sex together. The scoobies find out.* The scoobies find out about Spike+Buffy. Anya takes down Xander soooo otm. The Tara+Willow back together ending is so fucking heart breaking knowing what happens next episode. 10. Second best episode of the season.

*Really fucking annoying scene where Dawn 'wishes Buffy would have told her' about boinking Spike but fucking hell, she did it pretty explicitly in the last episode... how much of a moron is this girl?

'buffy' marathon on logo. Top 30 eps as voted by fans.

I've got the boxset, mostly inspired by this thread (and the other recent-ish ones). Watched most but not all of it at the time but looking forward to seeing again, though I won't be doing much watching now until the World Cup is finished.

on season 2, and holy god is charisma carpenter a reason for living

no joke

yup

http://www.celebrity-pictures.ca/Celebrities/Charisma-Carpenter/Charisma-Carpenter-17.JPG

yup

http://hotcelebrity.name/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/144023_large.jpeg

yup

http://free-pictures.dailypictures.info/free-pictures/1968/Charisma%20Carpenter%2001.jpg

also have no idea when this is from but wowow

http://www.perfectpeople.net/photo-picture-image-media/Charisma-Carpenter-758x964-141kb-media-232-media-0370.jpg

http://panthercs.ibeatyou.com/21736_pet_1243532099.jpg

i got that from GISing "daaaamn face"

also :(

Brendon was tasered and arrested by police in Los Angeles in the early morning of March 17, 2010. The police were responding to a call about an intoxicated individual, and confronted Brendon who allegedly swung his fists at the officers and attempted to run away. The police used a taser to stop him and arrested him for felony vandalism. Brendon was initially held on $20,000 bail.[8][9][10]

Brendon was later charged with four misdemeanors, including one count of resisting arrest, two counts of battery against a police officer, and one count of vandalism. He was scheduled to be arraigned on April 7, 2010.[11] On June 19, 2010, Brendon pleaded no contest to all four charges and received a one-year suspended jail sentence, was placed on probation for 36 months, and was required to perform 10 days of community service.[12]

He's had alcohol problems for years.

yeah but trying to punch a cop is just...

...indicative of someone who has had alcohol problems for years.

well yes.

:(

more pics of cordelia?

did you watch anymore of buffy kev? also learn to use gis?

yeah i'm working my way through season 4, slowly, but i got sidetracked with the wire and gilmore girls and then work

And yr thoughts? Big snake huh?

http://www.horrorhotties.com/images/categories/42.jpg
http://www.famousmonstersoffilmland.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/charisma_carpenter_02.jpg

she's so much better in motion.

sweet christ

And yr thoughts? Big snake huh?

― a hoy hoy, Monday, September 6, 2010 1:49 AM (5 minutes ago)

i'll def start updating that thread again when i get back into the swing of things, that was so much fun. season 4 is kiiinda dragging for me, but my lil bro (who's leapfrogged me and has watched every season of buffy and is now starting angel) says season 5 is better. we all know 2&3 are some of the best TV ever

i'm still that weird dude who thinks 6 is the best

i'll say one thing i totally miss cordi no doubt

6 is great, though I don't think it is the best. 4 is underrated.

yeah true

3 > 5 > 2 > 4 > 6 = 1 > 7

And 4 and 6 and 1 are still p classic.

though s4 seems to be picking up, i basically love buffy being in relationships for some reason and she's starting to get srs with riley

(re: big snake, talking about s3 finale? think we alrady discussed that one in the other thread)

xp yeah man 3 is just

Kevin, you had the Oz/Willow episode or the silent one yet? Because if not then wow are you in for some good shit. And then the last couple ones, with the Oz one, the Jonathon one, the finale to the season arc, and then the cheese guy where Giles sings one. Basically best tv show ever.

i think i'm overrating 6 cause i'm drunk tbh

i'd say prob 3>4>6>5>2>>>>>>7>1

well oz and willow broke up already, and yeah "hush" was A++++

last one i watched was the one after the ethan ep

5 > 4 > 2 > 6 >>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1

So... The Initiative is starting to become a proper thing then?

Melissa are you trolling or did you put that 3 in the wrong place or?

wait no the last one i watched was the ethan one, where SPOILER ALERT giles turns into a demon

xp melissa explain your disrespect for season 3 immediately!

It just doesn't stand out to me. It doesn't really have any of the great episodes that most of the other scenes do, and the whole Faith arc was ultra-boring. And then there's all that pointless Angel angst that leads to nothing. And I think it has the weakest finale of any season.

scenes=seasons

my favorite part of hush is when riley smashes the thing and looks up all proudly and buffy is like

".............we are just not hearing each other are we"

best summation of communication probs in relationships ever on television

i think i like viscerally disagree with everything you said, except about the finale (which was still very good, though pt 1 was better)

xp

Also, it's both less funny and less dramatic than all of the other seasons (other than 1). I can't really think of a season 3 episode that I love like Hush or Restless or The Body.

i mean like "amends" "graduation day pt 1" "consequences" etc just off the dome

to be fair i thought "innocence" was in season 3 for some reason, love that one

less funny? but it has band candy and earshot and willowvamp as a fuzzy bunny!

Was never really fond of those episodes.

That is wacky imo.

i should really revisit this show. I watched it all as it unfolded but have never rewatched the series.

ok, season 3 has The Zeppo. Also, The Prom episode makes me cry. The Mayor is the best villain they ever had. Season 3 dud episodes not crap as Season 2 dud episodes.

The Zeppo is about Xander and thus automatically dud. Always thought The Prom was cheap and the Mayor the cheapest of all.