Homicide: Life on the Street: classic or the best show ever created?

Not best ever prog ever made (=B*ff*), but way way up there.

And, of course, Yaphet Kotto = classic. (_Midnight Run_ is quite the underrated flick.)

I loved that episode where Bayliss was revealed to be this freaky Internet web-site guy, and everyone in the office ostracized him. (I think it also had something to do with homosexuality, too - wasn't following the show too closely to know, though.)

However, the later episodes with the terrible Jon Seda, Michael Michele and that annoying brunette women brought the show down quite a bit. I don't how Andre Braugher could stand to be in the same room with such stank actors.

I loved that episode where Bayliss was revealed to be this freaky Internet web-site guy, and everyone in the office ostracized him. (I think it also had something to do with homosexuality, too - wasn't following the show too closely to know, though.

He had his own site, which revealed his thoughts about being a bisexual buddhist. Don't recall everything about this episode, but I think both the bisexuality and the buddhism made everybody a bit uncomfortable.

the cool forensic pathologist with bob = woman i wd most like to snap my neck w. her legs ahem

are we at odds?

I actually went to Baltimore once, to check out the area the taped the show. I have a picture of myslef standing in front of the station wearing shirt/tie trench coat. I also had a beer at the bar that the cops own in the show-got a cool t-shirt with a chalk outline of a body on the back.

Why did Channel Four fuck with it so much? We never got to see the end.

I think the reason why I love it so much were the details they got so right. There was an episode where a kid gets shot dead in a mall, the parents are called into a room, completely numb from what's just happened. Then someone pops their head round the door and says "Does anyone here own a black buick, reg no. whatever" and the father looks round, distracted from his thoughts and goes "Huh, oh yes that's mine, I'll move it" and goes out to move the car. It was the contrast between the sheer ordinariness of having to shift his car with the trauma of what had just happened to him, and the fact that he just switched into auto-pilot and did it, that made the moment ten times more poignant than it would have been. I'm probably not capturing it very well but the show was full of situations like that - just written and acted with that bit more imagination.

And it's hard to think of a show making better use of a telephone ringtone and a board with marker pens.

Favourite character - Munch because of the way he revels in his unpopularity.

i find it hard to remember the details about homicide, i just remmeber growing up with it and loving it

ilx regulars will know about my love for oz

One thing I didn't realize when I was watching the show was that the guy who played Meldrick had actually spent a lot of time in Canada, and spent half his time living here. I found that out when I was in the Chapters on Bloor street, walked around a corner into (I think) the photography aisle, and there he was flipping through something. Also found out that he's Molly Johnson's brother. Neat!

All the characters on HLOTS (except for those brutal last few seasons, only brutal in comparison to the sheer genius of the first five or six) were SO complete.

I know so many damn extras in episodes of HLOTS that it's silly.

The only show i've ever felt emotionally attached to - reading the description upthread about the finales made me sad all over again.

andy

btw, i meant the 3rd when i said the 5th. it's saturday.

andy

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9711/12/law.order/

quote...
NEW YORK (CNN) -- The last time "Law & Order" joined forces with its NBC partner "Homicide" to solve a case, the shows' detectives were looking for a suicide bomber. The crossover episode proved popular with viewers from both shows, and gave each drama a Nielsens infusion.

So it only makes sense that the two programs' producers would seek out another joint venture. This year, crossover director Ed Sherin says, the teams are trying to solve "the mysterious death of a beautiful model, who happens to be 14 years old."
end quote...

that said, this was posted in 1997 so...

and here (http://www.lawandorder-fr.com/guide_episodes/crossovers.php3) it says (in french no less) that this is actually the third:

A ce jour, Law & Order (New York District) compte quatre cross-overs répartis comme suit :

one i didn't know about:
6.13 - Charm City 1/2 (Panique dans le métro) dans L&O (NYD).
4.12 - For God and Country 2/2 (Pour le bien du pays) dans Homicide.

this was the last one:
8.06 - Baby, It's You 1/2 (Mon enfant) dans L&O (NYD).
6.05 - Baby It's You 2/2 dans Homicide.

this one on saturday:
9.14 - Sideshow 1/2 (Querelles de clochers) dans L&O (NYD).
7.15 - Sideshow 2/2 (Dans les hautes sphères) dans Homicide.

isn't google a wonderful thing. 8)

andy

Of course they could be showing them the other way round and putting on one of the earlier ones. Either way I'll definitely watch it.

My favourite character arc has to be Kellerman. The handling of Bayliss' character always seemed forced to me, especially towards the end.

And Meldrick Lewis was the best character.

bringing good looking people on to the show was stupid AND dumb.

can the Jon Seda hate, y'all. The dude was one smooth smoothie. If anyone got close to ruining Homicide it was Michelle Forbes and that ex-fireman who killed the drug kingpin.

Man, the fact that I can't remember half the characters names reaffirms I must check out the DVDs.

There was a time were Homicide made me believe that Max Perlich was the bombdiggity.

Michelle Forbes, yup, she was Julianna Cox, the angsty/sassy coroner. She had some good moments.

What did people think of that TV movie they did a year after the show ended? I only saw a bit and was kind of bothered by how much of it just seemed like a damn cast party (even in heaven!).

No. Fucking. Way.

love the show, but I have a big Baltimore bias of course. I could probably recognize every other exterior shot. the house where Pembleton lived whenever they showed him at home on the show is on my dad's street, and my dad was an extra in a couple episodes, once as a coroner, once as a cop.

'Retail' is $100, I was going to put them on Ebay at $50, but if any ILXors are interested, I'd sell for $40, or something in trade. Just send me an e-mail.

you should read the book it's based on too!`

you can always enjoy John Munch on Law and Order. Oh, no you can't, because they don't do anything with him.

Oh wait, you're a vegetarian.

the episode where they spend a whole night in the station with wall-to-wall music was an absolute masterpiece,

It's wonderful.

(no, I'm at work today)

I am thinking of writing my own cop show so i never have to leave this daydream.

Have you watched Oz yet?

Meldrick Lewis is actually Canadian. Sort of.

But I always wonder, and there should totally be a comic book series about this, how the hell did Munch ever make through his time in uniform?

I like the belz a lot more as munch than I do as comedian.

So how is the comedy, Horace?

Dude, you should def. move to Mtl so then I can visit you and s1ocki at once! Either way, I'll hopefully be out that way sometime next year.

xxxpost.

We can be like Lewis and Kellerman!

maybe I'm overdoing that part, I don't know.

both

xpost - both are okay i guess

xxpost

Then i guess I could be like Mackey...

xxxpost~!

more importantly, did anyone see The Wire's season premier last night??? I was out and couldn't catch it )): but i'm sure HBO will dedicate a metric fuckload of programming time to repeating it in the next week. It's easily the best TV drama i've ever seen (tho that assertion carries little weight since i don't see so many tv shows)

I've always found it hard to understand complaints about difficulty following the show, I guess bcz I was lucky enough to have seen the first and second seasons in order. The plot-driven nature of it ('it's like a novel... ON TELEVISION' etc bhlahalhglh) is honestly one of the biggest hooks for me, I have zero patience for shows like the Sopranos where NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. i need to give the other Homicide seasons a shot, but for the most part I find the characters on the Wire much more compelling and resonant. (i really shouldn't be comparing the two shows so much, they're entirely different beasts - they just happen to use the same launching pad)

-- adam. (adamr...), September 20th, 2004.

def. hit the second and third seasons of Homicide, they are transcendent. like I said above, in retrospect, even the much-hated final season was pretty good.

one thing that really hits me when i watch these (homicide) on dvd now is just how much you can occasionally see the network meddling with it, well before the final season (and not just crossetti getting knocked off either).

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00003ETHD.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Mucho Classic

PLEASE NOTE: I am only halfway through series 3, NO SPOILERS.

xpost:Polito has always been pretty good. I reccomend the first season of "Crime Story" wherein he portrayed a mob boss.

Lewis is great and underrated on this thread.

I asked my wife if I should become a homicide detective, but I decided that I would have to be a beat cop first and I can't take that shit.

YES, and North America was going to be our beat.

Also! I saw this picture online today and it confused me greatly! WHO THE HELL ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE?
ihttp://members.aol.com/brendag3/KylePhotos/HomicideMovieCast_15.jpg

I have the fear!

one thing watching the dvds that really comes across is how there are episodes where they're clearly at least begrudgingly paying some heed to notes from network and others where they're 'fuck it, we're gonna get canceled anyway, let's do what we want.

SWAT was kind of like that too. I felt there were a lot of moments where you could Johnson/Meldrick was trying to put some really cool cop drama moments into the Big Budget Summer Blockbuster the Studio had hired him to make. They're all in the first half.

Adam, the Homicide movie is one of the biggest WTFs in the history of Yaphet Kotto.

when I said stivers was fine up above, I meant ballard. again, they didn't spend enough time developing her, but she was interesting. she's more interesting on the Wire though.

I hold out hope that Belzer will bail on SVU and take Munch to the Wire but it probably won't happen

Cousin of Henry Winkler.

Huck, maybe you did say that. But he's originally from Philly.

Biography for
Clark Johnson (I)

Date of birth (location)
September 1954
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

Height
6' 2" (1.88 m)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trade mark
Often casts one of his wives or ex-wives.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trivia
Brother of jazz singer Molly Johnson.

Played Canadian collage football while attending Concordia University in Montreal, Quebec.

He has 2 daughters

Have you seen the episode where Meldrick has a fight with his wife?

Also, did you know that Ami Brabson (or something close to that) who played Pembleton's wife is actually Andre Braugher's real wife (or was at the time)?

So do they EVER explain why Bo and Bolander get suspended for drunken behaviour and then NEVER come back??

I am also about 85% certain that I will be getting the Homicide book for christmas and maybe...just maybe...one of The Shield box sets, finally.

I guess they deal with the final fate of Beau Felton in one of the later seasons, with the "younger, sexier" cast.

I like Brody.
Have you seen the one where they watch Brody's documentary? A lot of that is lifted straight from the book. A lot of the first season is too. It's pretty cool the way the characters started out as pretty straight takes on the people in the book and then by the end they were all really different. Good writing or something, I guess.

No!

One of my favorite episodes is still that one in the first season where they spend the whole night in the station and it's hot and there's wall-to-wall music.

Some of the music is a bit weird, though. Belly playing while Pembleton and Bayliss go smashing down doors and looking for suspects?

And WHAT is an "Araber"? Is it a Baltimore thing?

http://members.aol.com/hlots98/barnfather.jpg

xpost

And Superman I & II

Yup. And I've met her, she came to a knitting meetup in L1v1ngst0n, NJ.

I actually ran into him in the photography section of the Chapters on Bloor street, near Avenue Rd! I looked over and said, "holy crap, that looks like Meldrick!", and then realized it was. He nodded and went back to whatever book he was looking at.

So the difference between Gaffney and Barnfather is that Gaffney is just a dick, but Barnfather was always trying to balance being a cop with the politics of his office.
The mayor, he was a dick too. Remember when he left Pembleton out dry on the Congressman investigation. Fuck. He lost my vote. No, he was the commissioner wasn't he?

I forgot about what happens to beau until just now!

I got to the episode where Luther Mahoney is first introduced (at the end of Season 4) and it's really interesting to really see Kellerman's character at that point. I think that was one of my favourite character arc in any TV show, so it'll be fun going through that in the next few weeks (just got Season 5 for my birthday).

I LIVE IN BALTIMORE. WORSHIP ME

I've signed up for the Cdn equivalent, and I'm debating clearing my list of everything except Columbo, Season One.

If not, get that instead.

Also, just announced this week, Tom Fontana is writing a Batman comic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I find though that the Falsone character in the Felton case is too different once he became a regular, whereas Gharty's character is pretty consistent prior to joining the squad (and after when he becomes lieutenant in the movie).

* I agree that Falsone and Ballard kinda suck, but Kellerman becomes quite possibly the most irritating character in TV history by season six. I kept hoping he would get killed off. I like Gharty though, he's great!
* Andre Braugher rules so hard.
* I have figured out where the show goes wrong near the end: Originally, the show was basically about the relationships between the partners: Bayliss and Pembleton, Munch and Bolander, Felton and Howard, then Lewis and Kellerman. They completely abandon this near the end, focusing more on these crazy unlikely crimes (whereas the crimes at the beginning were pretty uninteresting for the most part). In season six, the partnerships are a lot more ambiguous, with everyone pretty much just working with whoever's around.
* You know what's fun? Talking like Kaye Howard and ending every sentence with "eh?" We're gonna go to the store, eh? You better watch what you're doing, eh?
* My favorite episode that hasn't been mentioned yet is the one where Lewis and Kellerman are investigating the murder out at the hotel at the city limits, where all the degenerates and illegal immigrants are staying. That one's great.

Is that the one with Rev. Horton Heat in it?
I've only seen that one once.
I think Season Six only just came out recently, so Season Seven should come out sometime. Did you see the finale movie?

I think "Anderson" was probably one of the freshman kids who idolized Ferris.

I like how in the movie, as the new shift commander, he tries to stand up to Pembleton and Bayliss, but they just calmly blow him off as the joke he really is.

I have not read the book, I'll try and find it.

They explain this away by having someone (Kellerman?) confront him about it once he becomes a Homicide detective and he says that later (after the patrolman call episode) he got beat up in the process of chasing somebody and it forced him to confront his fears and realize that the fear of injury was worse than the actual injury. It's kind of a b.s. brushoff explanation, but it is an attempt at an explanation.

xpost, oh yeah, he was McNulty's judge pal.

These must be season seven characters. Should I even bother with season seven? I'm kind of curious given all the hints about stuff that happens to Bayliss.

I loved watching all the Homicides. I'm shocked there's a 7th season? I thought the finale, which I thought was the last episode of season 6, had a really strange ending. So I guess Bayliss lives then? Does he have any trouble recovering like Pembleton did with his stroke?

Though, you know, I thought I remembered someone saying Bayliss was the only character in ALL of the seasons, so I thought it was weird that pembleton was still around in 6. But now I know there's a 7th and that pembleton leaves...

One thing I didn't like about the show was how many of the main characters were killed off. I think they could have come up with better explanations for taking the characters off the show. On the other hand, some of the explanations they did come up with (like for the female ex-shift commander who ends up in France) seemed totally thrown together. They'd mention it for like one second and then act like that person never existed after that (except for her character, actually, since she did come back when Beau got shot).

Remind me how all their stories end, because I can't remember (ie: where the characters supposedly end up).

The movie sounds so AWFUL based purely on the plot summary amy gave way upthread. Enough with the crew getting shot already!

Also, what was up with Russert being related to Tim Russert? Did some crew member just have a Tim Russert connection they wanted to exploit?

Pembleton: Ends up teaching.
Bayliss: WATCH THE FINAL SEASON AND THEN THE MOVIE
Lewis: No diff.
Howard: Transfers out.
Kellerman: Eats a lot of food.
Gee: WATCH THE MOVIE
Russert: Goes to France, comes back a lot.
Munch: Fucks off to New York to hang with Ice T, leaves Lewis holding the bag, Waterfront-wise.
Bolander: Never visits.
Latter-days cast: NOT MUCH.
Mike Giardello: Beats people up while Kellerman eats food.
Felton & Crosetti: WATCH THE MOVIE!
Scheiner: Falls asleep at parties.

I remember reading in Homicide: Life on the Streets. The Official Companion that he also got arrested in between seasons for brandishing a gun in public.

He also appeared in Beautiful Girls if I remember correctly.

From here:
http://userweb.suscom.net/~homicide/glossary.htm

Kellerman was on Law and Order last night!

And I was watching, um, "Escape from L.A." the other day and hot coroner lady and her mole were in it.

um, was 'Ghost Of A Chance', the second epsiode:
http://epguides.com/HomicideLifeontheStreet/

A good friend tells me that the video editors for The Wire work next door to him, so I might get some advance poop on the new season, set to start in March. Ideally, you know, their edit suite would be some Narnia-like room where I could suddenly become the rookie cop on the show, but I'm not sure exactly how that works so I don't want to get too excited in advance if that part doesn't work out.

"itv 4 will launch in full on sky on 07/11/05... itv4 will be on epg at 120..."

so it should be available now.

(i have episode 2 if you need it)

was wondering this morning whether anyone had a complete list of the names on the board and which episodes they feature in.

itv4 are dicking around with the schedules a bit, episodes are being dropped for random films and stuff (between parts 2 and 3 of the last storyline for instance) and this week there appears to be a friday episode on top of the sunday episode.

(i have started the aforementioned list of names on the boards in my palm pilot. some numbers have 3 names associated with them.)

More Homicide / CSI crossover. the one i watched last night (actually from the night before) was the one with the suicide that gets fatally shot on the way down. before she started telling this tale (at an ME convention) the bloke before her was telling them about how his department has just located the place of death using the bugs found in the body using their newly appointed forensic entomolgist. "Forensic Entomolgist!?". much laughter...

tivo episode descriptions are currently one episode out.

OMG DET. MUNCH IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDNET?

adam, are you there? can you hear me? can you feel me near you?

I have been GORGING on homicide these past few days

esp. seasons II and III

detective frank pembleton/andre braugher and giardello/yaphet kotto are my new gods

haha me too holmes.

pembleton > all other screen characters.

they've been showing it again, from the beginning, on itv4 but appear to be finishing at the end of series 3 (next week)

i've been writing down the names on the board as i spot them but figured it'd be on the web somewhere. a quick google for "visciglia liddell" (2 of munch's cases from 1994) gave me:

http://members.aol.com/jimking/ which is stunning.

(the last 3 i've seen have had Steve Buscemi, John Waters and Tim Russert guest starring / cameos). but the way they are showing them out of order bugs me (end of season three was episodes from before the shootings / bolander's scar, for instance.)

I have been thinking of watching this when I finish S5 of The Wire. How does it compare?

For its time, it was really about as good as it gets. C4 UK passed up on the final season, which is probably where the rot set in for them.

Having recently seen a BBC2 piece on The Wire, but never watched it, I'm in the opposite situation of feeling I should really catch up with a box set.

I don't know how much it compares as I haven't seen much of the Wire, but it's generally considered about as realistic, but more episodic. Nearly everyone I've come across who loves one loves the other.

Everyone needs The Wire in their life.

I'm just worried that Homicide will be like The Wire, only not quite as good. Only one way to find out, I guess!

well, according to the current Tivo listings, on 4th october itv4 here in the UK is showing "La Famiglia" which is episode 1 of series 7 and i think is the first time it's been aired on english tv. (is, as usual, 2:55 in the morning but...)

(last night's was 6.16 The Abduction which is roughly where they stopped the last lot of repeats)

In anticipation of this placing on the '90s poll, just thought I'd point out that Amazon at this very moment has an insane sale on the complete series. 60% off, dudes!!!

nice. the wire complete set on sale too

Pretty much best show ever created.

My husband would agree. We're only through season 1 and started watching s2. But he's hooked. And thinks it's the best show evah.

Me? I really like it. S1 was good, S2 seems even better. I did not like the Gyllenhaal directed ep, I have to admit. Hated it. Not the storyline, just the style of directing was totally off (imo)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/breaking/bs-md-simon-cassidy-20120311,0,547379.story

man why did no one ever tell me andre braugher was on kojak

https://www.facebook.com/john.mcnaughton.568/posts/874305706035374

RIP jon polito

lots of the obits will be about his coen bros parts but crosetti was his best part

in the movie, when everyone finds out about REDACTED, is the sound cut out? my stolen internet copy has silence there except a bit, somewhat out of sync i thought, with kellerman turning up the radio, and then comes back in once pembleton is informed. i thought it could be some extreme technique but maybe it was blotted out for some kind of copyright reason, who knows (the opening song wasn't, though).

huh, i guess it was a copyright thing, happens at the end too

Possibly? I haven't seen it since the original broadcast, but I do remember Beck's "Beautiful Way" appearing prominently over a montage.

hmm yes must be a copyright evasion thing, i got peter tosh 'pick myself up' in the opening and definitely no beck for the two later montages which were silent.

No idea but I'm glad to see the thread bumped because I love this show so much. "Crosetti" is the best hour of television I have ever seen.

I'm rewatching this with my wife, who's seeing it for the first time. We're about 1/4 through season 3 and she hates the first replacement character (Russert). Unfortunately, that's a pattern likely to continue.

The Robin Williams episode co-written by David Simon is even better than I remember. The resolution of the serial killer plotline that opens season 3 unfortunately is ludicrous.

This show is similar to Twin Peaks in that it's a bridge between old network TV tropes and "prestige TV," resulting in a disorientating mix of experimentation with the form and concessions to dopier network-mandated convention.

the episode with Vincent D'Onofrioeoeo in the subway is one of the best hours of network tv in history.

Russert is terrible but I like Kellerman just fine. I like his doofy voice and extreme angst.

Yeah, that three-part serial killer thing is ridiculous, but I think the third season is overall my favorite. Just so many incredibly strong episodes.

concessions to dopier network-mandated convention

where

The last episode we watched was the one where Lewis and Bayliss both fell in love with the woman who slept in a coffin. The whole tone was very sitcommy and jarring; reminded me of Twin Peaks season 2.

Thought I would remind everyone that Homicide has a really good Thanksgiving episode, "Hate Crimes." Lewis negs a redheaded lie detector technician into going out with him, Bayliss agonizes about his sexuality, Kellerman agonizes about being Kellerman, Pembleton is a badass as usual, and Munch goes skiing. It's a classic.

i miss watching this live when it first aired
felt like this amazing secret that only cool ppl knew

we're still cool

are u tho

(jk)

i… i…

:-(

I just recently realized how good this show is and binge watched almost all of it. I haven't been able to find the final season yet tho *sobs*.

I won't say it's the GOAT, personally I'm still partial to Six Feet Under but The Wire has maybe aged better than 6ft.

I'm definitely going to come back and read the whole thread asap but my hot take is that it's bothersome how the network did their best to kill the show after the 1st season (and continually disappeared great characters for not good reasons).

If you haven't seen the final season yet, you probably want to lower your expectations. There's a major drop in quality imo. The series finale is good though.

the series finale is quality and the reunion movie is good

mostly i tune out around season 6, though of course season 6 was the one with "subway" so it's not an absolute thing. i find the entire character of kellerman (he lives on a HOUSEBOAT) kind of excruciating, which is also how i feel about the "buying a bar" plotline.

i'm not sure how i feel about the "bayliss is bi" plotline. i think it's a good idea but i don't know that it was handled particularly well. still, i figure they get credit for trying. if the show was made today he'd probably be non-binary as well. the show wouldn't be made today because a show starring mostly "good" murder police wouldn't have room for non-binary characters, just like actual murder police wouldn't have much room for non-binary detectives

that's the challenge about "homicide" for me, at the end of the day i am supposed to empathize with the police, the moral heart of it is an approach to justice that, if it existed in the first place, was gone by the time "the wire" was made

I liked the "Bayliss is bi" plotline because I thought they set it up very well. Every season from Season 2 on had a "Bayliss is weird and conflicted about sex" episode, and then it got clearer and clearer that he was in love with Pembleton, so by the time he actually came out it made a lot of sense.

RIP Yaphet Kotto.

That cold open where he runs into Munch at the washateria on their day off...

rewatching (rip Andre Braugher)

havent watched it in years, not since it used to get rerun on Bravo or one of those early rerun cable channels

anyway man i think this show is the ultimate comfy pair of slippers rewatch show for me. it’s all so familliar: the patter, the characters, just so good. that first crosetti lincoln rant and i was home <3

started slowly watching this from the beginning and ffs they've got yaphet kotto and ned beatty and andre braugher doing supporting roles and it's so good. 'iguana style'? G

also lol that everyone, including pembleton, refers to bayliss as a kid, when kyle secor is five years older than andre braugher

also ned beatty would never have sent wendy hughes into mortal danger the way j-l picard did

fuck, i could just watch yaphet kotto randomly move about the room

i love how he delivers his lines, it’s like watching free jazz or something

also appreciate that it only took 1.5 episodes for me to *hate* that uniformed superior guy who shits on G

i don't even know his name, i just know i'm gonna spend like 100 episodes hating him

so punchable

haven’t even mentioned meldrick or munch

i should make a clip of ned beatty, in the premiere, declaiming ‘Detective Munch’ over and over again