Norm Macdonald Returns to Television!

comedians = bastards.

his set was gold.

apparently he was jay leno in the late shift. wow. he must be funny if he can play jay leno.

I think we want to feel like there's something unique and spontaneous about a stand-up performance, and the comics comply. Bits beginning with "On the way over here..." probably did not take place recently, if they actually happened to the comic at all -- but we think to ourselves, "He just came up with that!" I'm sure stand-ups also have standard comments about audiences they make with EVERY crowd but are delivered in such a way as to seem spontaneous and specific.

I've been hosting this variety show for the last couple of months, and invited back a stand-up comic to test out some new material; in his second appearance, he slipped in some old material that, the second time around, didn't work at all. For instance, his reaction of mock-outrage at one point seemed affected -- and it's because I was aware of it now as an "act."

as for the talk shows, those are SOOOO not-spontaneous. the host is usually just feeding lines to their guests. it's entertainment. the real chitchat happens during the commercials.

But in what context? I think what threw you is that you thought that Norm had cast aside his "stage persona" when talking to you off-stage. But suppose he wants to keep it on the entire time he's in the club; no matter where he goes in the club, his role is the performer. Same with on TV talk shows. In other words, it may not be a matter of genuine vs. non-genuine as much as whether you're Norm McDonald or "Norm McDonald."

I hate this show. I will not watch it next week. I feel betrayed. Especially since the last show he had in development (for CBS), which DIDN'T EVEN GET TO PILOT stage was an Odd Couple ripoff where he would have been paired with JON LOVITZ. NOW that would have been impossible to fuck up.
I even like Norm Macdonald's movies, which are very shitty. But I hate A MINUTE WITH STAN HOOPER.

but in defense of hooper, i was flipping back and forth between that and tv carnage volume two and nothing beats that Three's Company / scat montage. nothing.

Fuckin' Norm. I think he's the funniest guy, but sheesh, his "legit" stuff sucks.

dude needs more work. also, can't say this is surprising -
"However, on the January 2, 2008 episode of The O'Reilly Factor, Macdonald stated that he is "very pro-life, but against the death penalty". He also revealed that he supports John McCain for president in the 2008 US Presidential Election"

i was just thinking of him today cuz one of the episodes of fairly odd parents where he plays a genie was on . he should do more cartoon work. he plays norm the genie, of course.

Norm Macdonald returns to returning to television!!

Watched his new "Sports Show" last night. A little bit hit and miss, but 100% Norm. I think it'll warm up, he seems to enjoy himself.

This sketch he did with Blake Griffin was probably the highlight of the show and it's fucking hysterical imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIyybvoyY1U

woot! Let's hope this show lasts longer than that Murray brothers golf show from a few years back (which was also awesome!)

I <3 Norm, he's like Mike Nelson, in that he keeps his politics out of his humour (although I don't think he's as conservative as ol' MJN).

I don't give a shit about sports at all but I laughed! Love Norm.

we've been talking about this on 77 just fyi

i dont understand what 77 is...
isnt like the ILX freemasons or water buffaloes or something?

you should join tbh

is there an audition

no Request Access to 77 Borad

:D

He was on Bill Simmons's podcast earlier this week and did an impression of Gordon Lightfoot singing "Maggie May". Tears.

I'd ask to go on 77 but I'm afraid of what I'd find there.

at this point it's mostly just ppl talking about going to the store or w/e the fuck

Oh. How's it for Canadians?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzGTAFu-XaM

kind of bizarre - norm's fixation with cock.. i went to see him do standup last year and he spent 20 minutes of his act discussing a cock going into an ass - there was no joke no punchline, he just wanted to talk about it... he was drunk during that show and seems like he is drunk in this interview..
zwartepiet412 4 months ago

son of a

I saw him do 10 amusing mins in front of Sarah Silverman in LA last week. ("I'm not that strict a vegetarian. I eat pork... but no vegetables.")

I saw him to 2 hours last Friday. Very funny overall. He did the strict vegetarian bit and let it drag on a bit but it was pretty funny.

“And, finally, to bury the lede, TBS is also working with Norm Macdonald on an unscripted series called Norm Macdonald Is Trending that literally just sounds like a show where Norm Macdonald reads the Internet out loud to you. That… sounds pretty good, actually.”

Would watch that.

Would watch it, rewind it, and watch it again

Seriously. It could just be called Norm MacDonald Talks About Stuff and I'd be all over it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_UmOhdgqkc
watching this right now. haven't got to russell brand yet and i had to pause a few time when he talked about his weight , his doctor and what he ate. paused all over the place so i didn't break myself anything from laughing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NormMacdonaldLive

Fred Willard! They seemed to have fixed the sound this season starting with Carl Reiner. I love this, download the 720p from youtube and watch on tv.

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/kfc-hires-norm-macdonald-as-colonel-sanders-replaces-darrell-hammond-2015178

What the hell is going on?

this would be a lot more awesome if it weren't KF motherfucking C

It's going to be awesome when they fire him and he starts talking shit about them.

Norm's "memoir" is amazing. i read it in one day while laid up with a cold. if you're a norm fan it's A+++

I agree, it's pretty great.

I loved it! If he wanted to concentrate on writing books I think I'd be into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDrlGRCvYts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYD0KekVPzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D5Rf8RxFRo

powerful archival video of carson daly and norm macdonald spending the summer of 1998 together at seaside heights.

Seinfeld's views of the homeless on Norm were a bit troubling, but the discussion of comedy craft was good. Norm as always brings the voice of reason and humanity

Tim Allen was great on Norm

Good profile:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/magazine/norm-macdonald-still-in-search-of-the-perfect-joke.html

probably the funniest comedian ever imo

his funny jokes make me laugh, thereby bringing a joyful smile to my face, delighting me

if nothing else he's definitely the best talk show guest of all time

a bit bummed that the alt-right have started co-opting this guy

he's a jordan peterson fan, small c conservative, anti-pc, so not so much co-opting as just agreeing on some things

was flipping through some Norm stuff on YT and there was something like "Norm MacDonald DESTROYS liberal Hollywood PC comedians!!" or something where it was just Norm saying that there's nothing really funny about a Trump impression when it's done by someone who obviously loathes the guy. which he's 100% right about of course

I've not been that impressed by Norm the Comedian. That is, his written bits or his standup, per se. He just seems like a genuinely funny person, no matter what he's doing.

yeah thats otm

his comedians/coffee/cars is great

it's not otm because he's one of the few good/funny standups in the world

that seems to be the narrative his entire career - he's one of the funniest guys on the planet but there really isn't a great vehicle for him to showcase his talents. he was good on Weekend Update, Dirty Work is alright, his stand-up is hit-and-miss, his Sports Show was good but kind of awkward...none of it is as funny as him going on Conan and doing the Sully bit

I haven't consumed tons of Norm MacDonald content but he was on the Roast of Someone or Other and did a bunch of miserable roast jokes off of a website to a nonplussed crowd and I think that alone is a peak achievement in comedy.

I'm almost certain he's got some miserable political opinions though.

hm I said "miserable" twice grr

yea that was truly mind blowing. "Bob Saget's got a face like a flower....yeah, a CAULIFLOWER!" was the hardest I've ever laughed during any of those roasts

Greg Giraldo is here. He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

I've not been that impressed by Norm the Comedian. That is, his written bits or his standup, per se. He just seems like a genuinely funny person, no matter what he's doing.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 31 August 2018 20:34 (two hours ago) Permalink

yeah thats otm

his comedians/coffee/cars is great

― lee guacamole (darraghmac), Friday, 31 August 2018 21:54 (one hour ago) Permalink

I think the impression he gives that he’s not doing a craft is fact the craft

*is in fact

so this guy has some bad opinions

and some funny jokes

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-norm-macdonalds-new-talk-show-wont-target-trump-1141832

I listened to one of his standup albums recently and I agree he's generally funnier on talk shows and such rather than doing standup per se -- his rhythm just doesn't work as well with the echoey mic and the constant theater laughter.

the rape/raping bit from ccc wasn't the best of his times

this seems like an unwise thing for him to have said just before his show debuts.

I still think his weekend update era was classic, as was his standup at the time; but I haven't had any time for him for ages.

his funniest joke to me: "do you ever lie for no reason? 'hey, did you see that movie with meryl streep and the horse?' "...... yes'"

'me doing standup' is very funny

yea I guess one thing about Norm is that he's an old-school type of comedian, his goal is to make you laugh, not be some sort of "divine truth teller" who has a well-thought out and informed opinion on every subject under the sun. his comedy is funny in some part because his conclusions are so obviously wrong. watching him talk about sports is pretty illuminating, he's so captivating and often comes at it from a great angle, but at the end of the day his predictions are often hilariously off.

I had looked on [Roseanne's] Twitter feed once in a while. I really couldn't understand her because I am not that worldly in politics.

Once again another country not sending us their best.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-norm-macdonalds-new-talk-show-wont-target-trump-1141832

― Pesto Mindset (Eazy), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 22:13 (fifty-seven minutes ago) Permalink

I don't get why this is even a question that has to be asked -- does every tv show now have a responsibility to "target trump"?

pretty much everything in 2018 boils down to "what does this guy think of Trump"

actually in context in the full article what mcdonald says isn't so surprising to me, TBH.

i like comedy that eschews politics if it's funny

yes. and that is exactly how it should be. xxp

If you don't take a futile, preaching-to-the-choir stance on Trump, you stand with Trump

Maybe every album that comes out should also be required to have an anti-trump song.

It is not at all the same for musicians, but: any "comedian" who doesn't address Trump/distances himself from the most moronic US prez ever, is a shit comedian. #controp

Terrible opinion

my god ye'd give a fella hope yet

xp to lbi sad!

You would say that, yes

xp

as soon as you require a political stance from yr comedy youre the enemy

or yr music or yr movies or yr anything

possibly even yr politics

def yr friends

It is not at all the same for musicians, but: any "comedian" who doesn't address Trump/distances himself from the most moronic US prez ever, is a shit comedian. #controp

― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 6:25 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you must be really funny

wait so yr friends are yr enemies I'm confused

xp

Not really. All (comedy) is politics anyway. Comedians aren't the enemy, they're faux friends most of the time.

you must be really funny

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, September 12, 2018 1:28 AM (twenty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

..

norm should read the hilarious ILX politics threads on his show

He should stop making rape jokes first and foremost. After that we can invite him to ilx.

Everything is political!

Being apolitical is political

and acceptable!

and in some cases preferred, even

but the case is very specific. politics in comedy can be good. norm explicitly putting politics into his comedy would be awful. clearly the person complaining that colin kaepernick brought politics into his football is terrible. but the person complaining that norm macdonald is not explicitly putting politics into his comedy show is also (much less) terrible.

wait so yr friends are yr enemies I'm confused

xp

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 23:29 (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nah
its that ppl with whom i disagree with politically are certainly not automatically 'enemies'

I think the impression he gives that he’s not doing a craft is fact the craft

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Friday, 31 August 2018 23:05 (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes btw....tho he does imo do it with a sideways look, its not completely deadpan

stewart lee draws attn to the same thing which is different again, performing v deliberately that he is not performing, called back enough routine after routine that its a loop at this stage

A) Norm tells funny stories sometimes.

B) Norm is exactly the kind of uninformed moron who would support Trump. But because *we* like him, that's ok.

C) Fuck Norm.

does he support trump

There's a bootleg of one of his standups where the audience asks if he voted, and he says, nah, besides, he's Canadian. To which he adds, "Yeah, if you thought your vote was pointless..."

I don't know why Trump won. One reason was KellyAnne Conway, who is one of the most charming and lovable people I've ever seen.

— Norm Macdonald (@normmacdonald) December 29, 2016

I have heard him talk about trump and i do not get the impression he’s a big trump supporter.

Yeah I don’t think he is either but he’s notoriously tone deaf when it comes to certain political and social issues. Though in his defense he’s pretty vocal about not wanting to talk about them

tone deaf is, like so much else, just a substitute for "doesnt say what id like", right?

KellyAnne Conway, who is one of the most charming and lovable people I've ever seen.

As humor, this is jejune and moronic. If it is in any way representative of his work, it is fair to call it tone deaf, but more accurate to call it dumb and unfunny.

xp more in the sense that he can't really see anything outside of his white guy comedian bubble and often doesn't consider some really basic things

"It’s always bad when you have to apologize for the apology," said the old white man who turned out to not be a friend of the liberals after all

"The remark I made about people with Down syndrome is terrible," the old white man continued. "I mean, you'd have to have Down syndrome to think it wasn't," he continued.

"I really Jewed that one up"

Norm on Tom green was classic af

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmV2t2SqHz8

When he shuts down the kids guitar dreams it’s mint

Sorry this is the link

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OeefXf08dsU&t=65s

Total trolling on the view tho

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1rCHgsmDo

Dunno Norms the best imo

New show is good so far. Essentially the same as the YouTube one

There’s a great interview on New York mag’s site. David Marchese might be the best interviewer in America right now.

http://www.vulture.com/2018/09/norm-macdonald-in-conversation.html

Awesome, thanks for that unperson

Chainsaw ref is to Eric Andre right?

that is a good interview! nice to see the interviewer push back on norm's boneheaded views, though overall it's fair to him

I guess there came a time, and I missed it, when revealing everything started to be considered art ... But I can look at other art forms and see how postmodernism has destroyed them, and now threatens to destroy stand-up.

Fuckin postmodernism strikes again, what won't that shit ruin

What are you trying to subvert anyway? Entertaining people?

norm is such a meta comedian and he doesn't even know that he's involved in the postmodern

You know, I think about my deathbed a lot.

Q:What do you think about it?

I think I should never have purchased a deathbed in the first place.

xp Yeah, a little rich to complain about postermodernism or meta-comedy given his "autobiography." (Which was hilarious.)

Do you really think sex is a shameful thing?
Yeah, I do.

what a weirdo

Just a Christian

Why not?
Because stand-up is a form and to subvert something, you have to do it perfectly first. I remember somebody showed me a talk show with “subversion” in it — the guy chainsawed his desk. It was so stupid. Why did you build a desk in the first place if you were only going to chainsaw it?

is he talking about Eric Andre here ?

i mean, yes

if "subversion" is comedy poison then what do you call appearing on a roast and doing an entire set of clean grandpa jokes from the 1920's?

This is why you don’t ask artists to talk about their own work! They do not discuss it very intelligently.

Norm like to play with audience expectations of joke structure, but they're still traditional jokes - the moth routine, for example. I'm not sure that's "meta". I think he's right to mark a difference between himself and, say, Adult Swim style creepy non-sequitur humour.

the frogbs example i think is quite germane

the humour in that bit is not the jokes themselves which are bad and hackneyed, it's doing those jokes in that context. it's meta

I dunno, I find it fairly straightforwardly funny - I'd call it "conceptual" rather than meta.

My favourite bits in that routine are the (apparent) ad-libs: "Seems harsh, by they want to MURDER YOU IN A WELL."

His roast was brilliant, basically what renewed my interest in Norm as an adult. Always liked him growing up but obv was more interested in the flashier comedy ppl at the time.

His old man conservatism is disappointing but it’s always been apparent. The “I don’t care or know anything about politics” line was never totally convincing.

Can’t justify his shitty takes or why he’s one that I find myself giving more of a pass to than others. Guess because he feels like his own unique thing operating in his own mental sphere. For me feels related to David Lynch’s recent, walked-back Trump comments.

I really liked the two episodes I saw of his new Netflix show.

the humour in that bit is not the jokes themselves which are bad and hackneyed, it's doing those jokes in that context. it's meta

this sort of meta is also bad and hackneyed. "Don't get it, man? It's funny because it's NOT funny!"

I mean it was a roast and in that context it’s kind of the opposite of hackneyed.

I don’t think anyone else could pull that off nearly as well either.

His old man conservatism is disappointing but it’s always been apparent. The “I don’t care or know anything about politics” line was never totally convincing.

If there's conservatism underneath, he knows that he can't win with it. I genuinely don't think he's trying to take a counter position to court some untapped conservative comedy-loving audience. he's more like the ilxor on the irrationally angry thread, annoyed that another task has been added to his work that was never in the job description. but he also knows that he'll fail if forced to perform this task. so he overstates some opinions on comedy to justify a relative silence. still, from the vulture interview (and I feel like he's said this before):

I always bristle when people say, “The comedian is the modern-day philosopher.” There are modern-day philosophers.

(you'd have to have some base faith that the 'people' are not horrible, though)

Yeah, I think that’s mostly OTM. Things are p. heavy right now and I’m averse to this hard binary we’re are falling into. Obviously don’t see him as an active agent of conservatism, but still moments arise that are cringey.

I need to read that interview.

Ugh, “cringey” is an understatement though. Someone mentioned his interview on the Tom Green show here and I listened to it today at work. He was talking about when he was on The View and said something like “who’s that fat BLACK lady on the show” in a way you couldn’t really paper over. I think dude legit harbors contemptuous views about women and minorities in general.

Maybe I should make some sense of this internally before hashing it out on the internet.

there were definitely some very strange episodes of his podcast like that. they also felt pretty self-destructive or performative, though.

I'm not saying Norm should just get a pass for everything, but for me at least I don't feel as critical of Norm because he comes across as a mostly compassionate and sensitive human being, in spite of probably having political opinions I'm not ok with?

I think his conservatism is more of the sad, pessimistic variety than the virulent/hateful variety.

the interview above did not leave me with that impression

Which one, the View?

Or the Vulture one? What in particular? I mean the way he discusses trans people is maybe not exactly up to date, but it seems well-meaning if fumbly. I'm not saying it's "ok," I just think this ok/not-ok binary the internet has created is a bit heavy handed sometimes.

that's fair

We had two trans family friends when I was growing up and one of my friends is now stepfather to a trans kid, but pronoun issues were barely on my radar until maybe 5 years ago, and I'm online a lot. When I was a kid it was still totally commonplace for mainstream movies and shows to be hostile to trans people for comic relief, to the point that it never even occurred to me that there was something wrong with it. I think people who seem like they are trying deserve a little slack if they haven't fully kept up, especially older people.

*when I was growing up = came out as trans when I was in high school, before that I don't think I knew anyone trans

Can’t justify his shitty takes or why he’s one that I find myself giving more of a pass to than others. Guess because he feels like his own unique thing operating in his own mental sphere. For me feels related to David Lynch’s recent, walked-back Trump comments.

yeah this is otm

i do think that the cruelty and wrongheadness are intrinsic part of NM's comedy. i mean, they are a bad part of his interviews, but essential to the standup

Lynch was totally quoted out of context

And he did not walk them back so much as he clarified them

I'm not saying Norm should just get a pass for everything, but for me at least I don't feel as critical of Norm because he comes across as a mostly compassionate and sensitive human being, in spite of probably having political opinions I'm not ok with?

This is how I feel-- he might not always be progressive but he's never ever hawkish

Yeah.

Vulture piece is v. good. Generally been fascinated by his interviews where he’s not, you know, “performing”. Thought this one in particular pulled out thoughtful responses. Interviewer did an impressive job of addressing issues without being scolding or adversarial, which will kill things right in their tracks. Tact worth noting.

I think it's worth noting that when he says sex is "shameful," in context he is saying that society and media continue to treat it as shameful.

Yeah, generally sounds like when pressed on something that’s wtf on the face of it he does a good job of clarifying and making it reasonable.

Though Norm actually thinking sex is a shameful, base human activity would not surprise me.

His love of classic Russian Lit. and the fact that he brings up God a lot (in the more abstract, non-dogmatic sense) is interesting to me. If only because I went through that too when I read those books and discovered Tarkovsky and Bresson movies and stuff. Still with me and I get it.

Norm strikes me as the kind of guy who will just about fuck with anyone well past the point of embarrassment to get to helpless laughter at the other end, but genuinely doesn't want to cause anyone any other kind of pain. He was very near tears on the View (compare that visit and his last Letterman appearance with any other live appearance). I'll drop him like a hot potato if stories of abusive *actions* ever come out, but I'm not going to stop watching the comedy of a bullshit artist for saying bullshit. (Yes, I am drawing a line between words and actions and yes I know that words can be abuse or the largest part of a course of abusive action. This isn't that.)

Yeah I p much agree with that. I mean unless the words are deliberately advocating virulent racism or something along those lines. I don't want to live in a world where we just drop people for a boneheaded joke where the irony wasn't well-considered. And I do feel like there's a bit of an outrage industry in the clickbait and twitter world now, with people jumping at the chance to condemn these things more loudly than the next, and Norm looking genuinely dismayed on the View and saying stuff like "I don't want my friend to kill herself" is a good reminder of how inhuman it starts to become.

where yall been the past decade or why norm so special vs literally anyone else ever

I got constant shit and nearly got banned permanently from this here site when I used to rail against dumb destructive absolutist application of progressive ideas, as you know. Norm's kind of special and almost brought me out of "THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR METAPHORIC AGONY AND REAL AGONY" retirement because he is an artist who works in bullshit. He's loved by dumb misogynist racist dudes into "trolling", but he's quite open about trying to do a certain kind of comedy better or differently than anyone has before and part of it is constantly playing with the ideas of smart v. dumb, real v. fake. He genuinely says dumb stuff about politics and culture a fair amount, but it's a tiny part of what makes him funny and worth watching for me.

Judge Judy interview was super beautiful

Y’all so god damn pc. Does it make you laugh ? If not find something else.

Honestly it’s boring as fuck

True question; why analyze everything to death?

Cuz it’s fun

Judging from some of the internet comments, the alt right people who think Norm is somehow "one of them" are remarkably humorless.

Does it make you laugh ? If not find something else.

Norm doesn't make me laugh, because I never see him practicing his comedy, other than some very stupid unfunny KFC commercials he did in the past couple of years. But when someone is quoted on ILX making very ignorant and insensitive comments about very serious issues, it doesn't matter much whether they are funny at other times. Ignorant or insensitive comments aren't ignorant or insensitive because they are not "pc", but because the person making them is ignorant or insensitive. It is just that simple.

Old me would have pointed out the weirdness of declaring Norm's never having seen Nannette yet deigning to criticize it anyway a clear sign of unforgivable insensitive sexist arrogance on the one hand while proudly declaring complete ignorance of anything Norm has done in the last 20 years "but fuck him anyway, he and I know what he was doing" as perhaps not the best of of looks.

The first sentence made me laugh and I like the challops that follows:

When I was a kid, if I’d heard Red Skelton talking about the government I would’ve thought, This is fucking weird. To me, it hurts the comedy any time anything real creeps into it. I know people have different thoughts. I keep hearing how great Lenny Bruce and Bill Hicks and Mort Sahl are. People have their own taste, but to me, all three of those people are just shit. They’re not comedians in my mind.

Oh yeah I agree with him about Lenny Bruce fwiw. Maybe there was something that felt salient about him at the time that just doesn't age well, but I never actually enjoyed Lenny Bruce. In a way I think he may have been just the inverse of today's PC comic -- edgy and challenging but not actually that good at just making you laugh?

Bill Hicks, too. I bought a couple of his CDs b/c certain people I knew swore by him. They weren't terrible but my main thought was "I really haven't laughed for a long time, wtf is going on here"

I think Norm's otm when it comes to the comedian needing to believe he's the smartest guy in the room. I've seen Aziz and Louie live and they were both pretty good but it definitely nags at you the way they try to do these long, tortured philosophical routines and then also try to sell dumb jokes that don't really work because the rest of the show is on a different level. With Norm you don't really have that problem. The fact that Norm's kind of a shit philosopher and has underdeveloped political views is what makes the comedy work. In that Vulture interview you can tell he's got some sort of belief system but he essentially acknowledges that it doesn't really hold up to any real scrutiny.

Hicks and Bruce I find very hard to take outside their historical relevance, but I laughed a fair amount listening to this Mort Sahl record I found.

Before 1962 or so, Bruce is very funny. Perhaps not "consistently," but few are.

definitely agree about Bill Hicks

hicks good to read, terrible to listen to or watch imo

hicks good to read, terrible to listen to or watch imo

This is maybe 80% of all standup/sketch comedy for me

Otm

How much does a comedian need to be political, ask that to you fine folks. I like escapism at times cuz the world is tough but is that a pre req

in this particular moment it seems fairly important

I used to listen to a lot of stand-up from like 2002-2004, back then it was kinda weird when stand-up sets didn't mention 9/11 in some way. I know Norm is bemoaning late night hosts having to do a lot of anti-Trump political comedy now, but what else are you supposed to be talking about right now? Trump has been the biggest news story in the country every single day for the last 3 years.

Fair

I know Norm is bemoaning late night hosts having to do a lot of anti-Trump political comedy now, but what else are you supposed to be talking about right now? Trump has been the biggest news story in the country every single day for the last 3 years.

Comedians can comment on literally any aspect of human existence. Why are they obligated to comment on the news, is the question, and "they just are" is not really a helpful answer.

i love norm, but dismissing mort sahl as "not really a comedian" is risibly ignorant -- sahl's style was not at all similar to hicks or later bruce, and norm throwing him in the list makes me think he's either ever never listened to him or just dislikes political comedy that he doesn't agree with

I think the real issue is that we live in an era with an unprecedented volume of commentary on the president -- twitter, facebook, 24 hour cable news, every level of news and blogsite, etc., and when it comes to Trump, EVERYONE has a take, something "funny" to say, etc. So it's kind of unreasonable to expect a comedian to just have even more to say about such an overtrodden subject just because it happens to be "important."

disagree even with that.

it simply isnt a necessary part of the brief

xxp tbf to Norm, he wouldn't be the first to throw Sahl and Bruce together. Sahl, Bruce, Hicks at least all pieces of Maronicana.

Where are you people reading your stand-up comedy

Bruce and Sahl bits appear back-to-back in the anthology The Cool School (which was gifted to me because I am not cool, I guess)

the argument has changed from "late night talk show hosts talk about the news" which is mostly true but also not a new development to "stand-up comedians all talk about the news" which is insanely untrue

also where are you people all reading sketch comedy?

x-post but more salient!

(I've read a couple hundred pages of Bruce, heard a few seconds, seen no footage)

ive a hicks collection of routines i picked up somewhere way back when

Anyone like the norm show? It’s funny

Comedians can comment on literally any aspect of human existence. Why are they obligated to comment on the news, is the question, and "they just are" is not really a helpful answer.

I'm talking about late night talk show hosts here - for example I don't think Jimmy Kimmel's show was all that political until recently

stand-ups, yeah, you can talk about whatever

reading an entire book of standup routines sounds insanely boring

lenny bruce did write an actual book which is pretty funny, iirc

now that I think about it, Stewart Lee's annotated book of his routines is actually pretty good (but it's the additional commentary that makes it interesting)

the hicks book had early and evolving versions of the routines which was interesting

'squilgee your third eye'

Jane Fonda was so dope

omg the bit where he pretends to read from david spade's memoir had me rolling

hicks has said some truth bombs but as comedian hardly anyone beats delirious/raw era murphy

Raw is trash.

youre trash

^he says, borrowing Trump's favorite playground retort. Subtle irony?

i mean i dont mean it literally

sic is a homie but u kno its just tastes

Eighties Eddie Murphy specials are phenomenally funny

Raw has Umfufu and the McDonald’s bit, fuck outta here

thas wassup

ha but newayz

i just finished watching the first episode of the norm show and it is p entertaining

learned abt hybrid hookerz and skeet

Jane Fonda episode really is magical

was referring to the norm macdonald has a show show

had no idea he had a show called "the norm show" in 1999

that had exactly one funny thing in it, but I remember that thing after 19 years: Norm tying a carpet swiffer to a sausage dog in order to avoid cleaning under coffee tables.

I remember the joke from the Norm Show where he couldn’t do something because of his old war injury, and Laurie Metcalf was like “I didn’t know you were in Vietnam” and Norm is like “No, the card game, War”

Anyway the whole Norm feature wave is kind of built on him being this comedy nerd secret but there was a time that I lived through but barely remember when he was famous enough to host SNL and carry a sitcom for three seasons

And even then it felt like a little joke we were in on

Or some kind of hip secret we were in on, it’s crazy!

The Rolling Stone profile of like the 1995 cast really has them focusing on Norm as this breakout star and not, like, Will Ferrell and Molly Shannon

I don't think Jimmy Kimmel's show was all that political until recently

Kimmel always on the cutting edge of progressive politics iirc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obz-O3CcP2I

I like the casualness of the new chat show but it takes some getting used to - I don’t listen to much radio, is this a talk radio aesthetic?

At one point, Norm rests his hand over his whole face while he’s turning to the right to look at Jane Fonda, and it looks so clumsy and strange, but there’s power in its unfussiness. He’s a lousy interviewer but it’s almost like a deliberate tactic to make the interviewee take over. The Fonda one’s fun.

Almost all TV interviewers have this neediness to be the voice of authority in an interview, and it’s interesting to watch an interviewer happy to cede his power.

Anyway the whole Norm feature wave is kind of built on him being this comedy nerd secret but there was a time that I lived through but barely remember when he was famous enough to host SNL and carry a sitcom for three seasons

― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 18 September 2018 07:27 (six hours ago) Permalink

Yeah but he was never a Chris Farley or even a David Spade level of popularity. I mean, Kevin Nealon hosted Weekend Update. nb I think Kevin Nealon is v funny and underrated.

Watched the first episode of this last night and loved it.

A few minutes in he mentioned Tom Snyder's Tomorrow show, and that absolutely makes sense: the kind of weird after-hours talk show that is halfway between public access (no studio audience) and something more legit.

Funny that in the Vulture interview he knocks Eric Andre, because this feels like Eric Andre but using only words and conversation to knock the guest out of their comfort zone.

I mean, I love the part where David Spade tells a long story and then he says "And we're back" and makes Spade tell the story over again.

I swear for all these people who talk about how they're breaking boundaries with talk shows, it's like Craig Ferguson never existed. That dude was a goddamn genius.

cheeky monkeys

ppl enjoying the netflix show (me included, streamed it all in a few days) he's basically done this exact same thing on youtube for a while i assume those are all still up

Yeah this is a take on those web episodes on youtube

these web episodes, these casts for pods

& maybe i shdve paid more attn, remind me the poem he references in an ep that describes viewing a sunset from a train & an older man telling a child 'it is not beautiful' ?

isn't that bukowski? i think i saw someone quote that in a movie

https://hellopoetry.com/poem/9394/i-met-a-genius/

ah thx

that bukowski poem has nothing in it except that it's a purely contrary opinion that works against expectations.

how could expressing one isolated opinion make this kid a genius? if Bukowski thought it was pretty before, why does this bald, simple, and unfounded denial by an anonymous kid instantly change his perception? and why should we trust this whimsical and apparently baseless new perception any more than his old one? and why would this sudden 'realization' matter to anyone but him?

Fuck me the second episode/drew barrymore episode had me laughing so hard

Luv drew

Yeah she’s great

All the guests on this were interesting to watch, Keaton seemed to find his footing well (he’s a total oddball but it worked perfectly here)

how could expressing one isolated opinion make this kid a genius?

People are declared geniuses based on a single idea all the time. Someone has a problem / someone provides a solution / “OMG you’re a genius!”

if Bukowski thought it was pretty before, why does this bald, simple, and unfounded denial by an anonymous kid instantly change his perception?

We don’t know that he thought it was pretty. He likely knows that the conventional wisdom is that it’s pretty, but maybe has never taken the time to really look at it and examine his own reaction to it.

and why should we trust this whimsical and apparently baseless new perception any more than his old one?

Because this new perception is based on his actually looking closely at the scene before him for the first time and making his own judgement. His previous perception wasn’t really a perception at all, just an idea of what people say his perception should be.

and why would this sudden 'realization' matter to anyone but him?

Maybe he’s making a larger observation re: the tendency towards uncritical acceptance of the popular opinion?


nb This is the first time I’ve read this poem and am mostly posting to be contrary.

if had never taken the time to really look at it and examine his own reaction to it, he seems to me to be a fairly unobservant observer and unthinking thinker. if he’s making a larger observation re: the tendency towards uncritical acceptance of the popular opinion, it is equally true that his observation is jejune and hackneyed.

aimless DESTROYS charles bukowski with LOGIC and REASON! (1,355,348 views)

hahahaha

i know zip abt bukowski except that barfly is funnier if you pretend it's an adverb, but this seems quite a slight poem making a nice little point really -- which isn't especially contrary to popular opinion, it's a p standard romantic trope -- that sometimes even the writerly need a spur to think abt how a particular word works and gets casually thrown around, and sometimes that spur comes from the unencumbered of mind still feeling their way round language. the idea that a six-year-old boy is a "genius" for this is obviously a (again slight) joke about the idea of genius in poetry, and how we chuck it around quite almost as easily and carelessly as the word "pretty". poets are greatly feted for this -- capturing a moment or an idea or a realisation or a compacted set of all these as you hadn't understood it before -- but having someone wake you up to some small realisation is actually a fairly routine occurrence, and not given only to poets, or to those people we are routinely and unthinkingly socialised to consider are poets.

bards say the darndest things

this still doesnt explain to me why we can treat norm reasonably after a clumsy gaffe which under 2014-onwards rules should see him afaict an ilx pariah

taste's strange

aimless DESTROYS charles bukowski with LOGIC and REASON!

Not bukowski. just that poem. He wrote much better poems than that one, but it's often one of a poet's least interesting poems that are embraced by the public, because they most approach the standard of a Hallmark greeting card and the public likes that.

xp "Norm's a gentle sweetheart" was the given explanation. Every time he walks in a guest, he is so damn excited that "Ted" gave him a refrigerator full of drinks. I imagine Norm interrupting a pay negotiation between Netflix and his agent to ask for it and promptly accepting their low offer after "Ted" agrees to a refrigerator full of drinks on set.

the formal introduction of Ted's refrigerator to the guest and Norm's goofy dance at the end are great bookends for this show

quite a slight poem making a nice little point really

That's Bukowski much of the time. I liked reading one of his books where the poems felt chronological, almost like tweets: this one he wrote over breakfast, this one he wrote on the way to the track, this one he wrote leaving the track...

the outro song n dance is v charming

maybe the child was double-checking the footnotes for his doctoral thesis in astrophysics before he looked up and made a throwaway remark about the view

I met a genius on the train
today
about 6 years old,
he sat beside me
and as the train
ran down along the coast
we came to the ocean
and then he looked at me
and said,
Good morning everyone and welcome to "Science and Society". I'm Dr. Sheldon Cooper, BS, MS, MA, PhD and ScD. OMG, right?

it was the first time I'd
realized
that.

a few minutes into the judge judy episode and it's not funny -- skip?

Nah don’t skip man

Judge judy episode js the worst one

Drew bmore epi the best out of the first 3

this still doesnt explain to me why we can treat norm reasonably after a clumsy gaffe which under 2014-onwards rules should see him afaict an ilx pariah

taste's strange

― Dmac TT (darraghmac), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 15:20 (eight hours ago) Permalink

Do you actually want us to make him a pariah or is this about someone else who got paraiah’d you’d rather defend?

I love how terrible his trusty sidekick Adam is

They made more of a joke out of this on the YouTube show

Also the difference between this and Eric Andre is Eric Andre seems like the kind of guy who is funny but norm is funny

its curiosity about it tbh

dont want him to be a pariah at all but without going back over case files im still p sure that ilx has been happy to hang others for no worse slipups?

Yre first mistake is thinking theres any type of framework ilx operates under

also don't like the way the netflix series conveniently erases adam egets holocaust denial.

Haha. Felt like the Adam stuff on his YouTube show could occasionally veer into cruel, but it’s a little lighter here. I’m glad he’s part of the show, it’s an endearing dynamic.

U can argue it was a bad joke but not that hes an irl holo den

norm's bafflement and wonder when he's telling the sinbad story to fred stoller on his youtube show is the hardest i've laughed at anything in about 10 years. really enjoyed the netflix series, but would have liked a few more dumb sketches to open the show. it was a good mix of guests though.

Drew Barrymore's little girl really does look like ET, that's weird.

Jane Fonda's sweater kinda reminds me of what the Vancouver Canucks of the NHL wore in the 1980s. Just with some pink added.

Adam Eget still makes me uncomfortable. I don't like the icky Dom/sub relationship between Norm and him.

“British presenters, especially in the 90s, especially children’s presenters, turned out to be a cult of much evil”

Norm otm

Could probably throw in the irish in there too

Jesus janey’s doggie is the cutest little thing I’ve ever set eyes on

Adam Eget still makes me uncomfortable.

thank you

I mean yeah, it’s uncomfortable. Intentionally.

“Dom/Sub” maybe a little much. Jesus, that might ruin it for me.

Dom sub is great

More pls

Get that fella on a choke collar

Fa otm

Adam is a lucky sob but not funny at all.

God bless Chevy chase for shutting the sucker down

Judge judy episode js the worst one

Spade's was worst one (I've seen up to Fonda) for me. Almost didn't watch another one after seeing it.
I don't get the point of sidekick guy. Fonda's matter-of-fact "oh there always has to be a sidekick huh" was lol.

Side kicks make the host better, in theory. Proven false by John Baptiste from colbert who is a ducking moron. Norm doesn’t need Adam tho it’s a pity play

It’s cheap is what I mean. Fodder to riff off

right. I meant I don't get the point of this particular one. Agree w you.

jesus i never liked this shyamalan character and i sure as fuck don't like his interview

ha dom/sub captures why I find the relationship hard to watch but end up liking adam anyway

jus gonna skip the end of the judge judy ep, she seems like she has a little too much self-regard for this show

Norm doesn’t need Adam tho it’s a pity play

Eget absolutely doesn’t need to take time off from his day job as one of the most important ppl in American comedy to play dumb as Norm’s sidekick on a youtube show.

ha man keaton episode is another good one

gay and irish jokes to boot

8/10

adam eget is a treasure and the show would be nothing without his presence

i like the spade ep a lot

fav is probably jane fonda

worst is prob m night, not wild about judge judy but she's kind of interesting

adam is obviously 'bad' but he's bad in a funny way

Billy joe shaver ep was cool, not great and not the worst

The last episode is some real boring shit, which makes sense because it’s two canadians talking

It's undeniable he has always appealed to a frat-boy kind of crowd, the types who are extremely put-out that it's now considered unacceptable to use 'gay' and 'retarded' to mean 'bad/stupid' (terms Norm himself threw around frequently on his Youtube show). Jokes about Eget 'sucking guys off', hookers, women not being funny, etc. He's often tongue-in-cheek-but-not-really. I never quite liked that side to him; he's very intelligent and it often comes through but he falls back on the bro stuff constantly. In college (early 2000s) I remember his bit about 'are you really proud of your gay son?' -- morning jock types would laff and laff. Your Adam Corollas and Joe Rogans love him. And he has no qualms about cultivating that type of fanbase. It's very clear that he's coming from an anti-PC/conservative point of view. It's not like he's trying hard to hide it.

Personally, I don't like that side to his stuff. But I find myself wading through the crap to hear his funny bits about the Beverly Hillbillies and Kojak...

I always took the gay son bit to be a joke about well meaning parents overcompensating for their discomfort or trying extra hard to project that they are good parents. The joke being that sexuality isn’t an achievement, it’s just sexuality.

Maybe it is some sort of hyperspecific comment on something but I think it's more likely that he's just homophobic.

probably, yeah

There probably is some homophobia in it as well, I just don't think the punchline is "You say you're proud of your gay son, but actually being gay is shameful and gross." The punchline is more that what kind of sex your child has with whom is not normally in the category of things you say you are "proud" of.

that's a stupid joke, given that people aren't "proud" that they're children fuck other people of the same gender, they're "proud" of them for being brave enough to publicly endure discrimination as out, gay ppl

fuck this guy

their children

you know what I mean

"that's a stupid joke, given that 'orange' is a fruit and 'aren't you' is just a phrase and I certainly wouldn't 'orange' if someone didn't say banana after repeating it so many times"

lol u thought that was a good comparison

my defense starts with the fact that the joke is 20 years old, homophobic or not

and continues with, compared to his 90s comic peers like dennis miller who he sat across from when he most famously did the joke or the guys mentioned above, rogan and carolla, who built a career in later years off being hateful, dennis miller is senile now and is worried about ocasio-cortez death panels and carolla has turned into a stormfront guy, rogan is tweeting about white genocide in south africa and has devoted dozens of hours to promoting fascists to his tens of millions of viewers (20 mil viewers just totaling up the last 4 jp interviews, 7.5 m to watch rogan have a sitdown with ben shapiro)... i just think there's a difference between guys like miller, rogan, carolla or irony-poisoned millennial comedians that drop slurs and whine about how the tide is turning and you can't be offensive anymore, and a guy like norm macdonald that yeah definitely makes gay jokes but and seems out of touch but mostly thoughtful and not a hateful person and hosted gay and trans people on his show, and will be dead, realistically, within the next decade...

brb posting Norm's joke to the puns that you had missed thread

that's a stupid joke, given that people aren't "proud" that they're children fuck other people of the same gender, they're "proud" of them for being brave enough to publicly endure discrimination as out, gay ppl

it must be wild to have this thought, think to oneself "norm macdonald fans must not know this," and then follow through with sharing the thought on the norm macdonald thread.

tbf norm macdonald fans seem p stupid

in your mind, i've no doubt that they and many others must

I really have no concept of what a “typical” Norm fan looks like. I’m sure there’s some overlap with the bro-cast crew, but he’s popular amongst the uh... more discerning too.

Lol man is oustic brain ded or wut

hmmm he might have a point

^ norm stans

I think the premise of the "proud dad" bit is simply that "ew, gay sex is icky."

So I find that problematic. But I should say that I binged the whole Netflix series in two nights. I don't know -- I find them too short, so the laugh-out-loud bits are few and far between. He would do better with an hour and a half maybe.

It's better when he's interviewing his old buddies (the David Spade was good); some of the interviewees (Jane Fonda) seemed to have accidentally wandered on set. Although that show did have a moving observation from Norm about what a gift it is for Fonda to have hundreds of hours of footage of her father, whereas his memories of his father are fading into oblivion.

people who aren't norm macdonald

https://i.imgur.com/r017xyG.jpg

(W. S. Merwin, who died yesterday)

what the fuck happened to this man's brain

This piece of shit Seth Simons couldn't make it as a comic so he decided to destroy real comics. Here's an example of what this piece off shit protected America from. - DWECK https://t.co/58624qARUy via @YouTube

— Norm Macdonald (@normmacdonald) October 10, 2019

Hey, you fucking piece of shit, it's you that's The Joker, a failed stand-up that kills someone who got a TV show. I cannot wait to meet you. And I will. https://t.co/UHQ1aHeVki

— Norm Macdonald (@normmacdonald) October 10, 2019

(the first clip is an unfunny comedy sketch that feeds directly into the conservative victim complex)

what the fuck happened to this man's brain

benzodiazepines (allegedly)

you either OD a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the chud

just accept that that whole generation of SNL guys were rightwing jerks from the get-go. EVERY SINGLE ONE

Spade, McDonald, Jackson, Sandler, Lovitz, Miller, etc. = all Republicans

All except Sandler have always seem like miserable misanthropic dbags…

yeah wait sandler?

i suspect Farley would've been right there w them

Idk about Farley or Sandler

Oh wait n/m about Sandler, guess he was/is a repub

actually surprised about Lovitz.

He has some virulent material in his sets nowadays. Real nasty stuff

have always basically loathed him

Sandler big Giuliani donor/pal

just accept that that whole generation of SNL guys were rightwing jerks from the get-go. EVERY SINGLE ONE

Yep, except for Sen. Al Franken (D), though I suppose he was a holdover from the earlier generation. Kevin Nealon seems like a sane person. Not sure about Mike Myers.

Myers is pretty liberal.

I feel like Dana Carvey is but he tiptoes around it

honest to God I'm starting to come around on Lex's fuck comedy thing

Comedy is good, Norm is still funny sometimes, tho I def disagree w him on this

Yeah, Carvey goes on his mild riffs about "millenials" and how you can't say anything anymore without offending someone!

Its funny that comedians dont realize how funny it is when they complain about how what audiences find funny has changed

Like agggh my old jokes dont work anymore, the problem must be ... the audience!

Dgaf about this guy or his shtick but the moth joke is a stone-cold classic imho.

Carvey boohooed all over Poppy Bush's death bcz they bonded over DC's toothless impression.

moth joke is great
I do wonder about pills he seems really smacked out sometimes

what is moth joek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUjIM-GFWhk

Longer segment and less out of sync:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-MJy7w69EU

haha okay yeah that is good

That Shane Gillis fireman sketch... WOW, what could’ve been.

Norm’s “I don’t care about politics” line has always been transparent nonsense and I always expected some over the line outburst eventually.

I still think he’s, like, extremely funny sometimes. Though the embarrassment is real, for this sorta thing and the uh blatant abuse of benzos.

"I don't care about politics" is the refrain of every old white guy right before he launches into whining about Colin Kaepernick or immigration.

norman fucking macdonald

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-skA4GhVX7k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8xZQnAnOoE

Well damn.

BREAKING: Norm MacDonald has died "after a long and private battle with cancer"

The influential comedian and former 'SNL' Weekend Update anchor was 61 https://t.co/wSbwGQ8Syp

— Deadline Hollywood (@DEADLINE) September 14, 2021

Aw man I loved Norm 😢

more mourning over here: NORM FUCKING MACDONALD

sad day :(

aaaaarrghhhh

this is rough

loved this dude and can’t really think of anyone else who was ever remotely like him

So eh, it appears to me, that Norm Macondald won't be returning to television after all!

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/my-greatest-gig

https://defector.com/norm-macdonald-surprised-us-one-last-time/

He was great. Just watched his Larry Sanders episode recently (the joke about the homeless guy's dog). Kind of callous, and quite funny.

One of my favorite Conan moments back in the day.https://t.co/hsSannoQYf

— 38Parrots (@Parrots38) September 14, 2021

Lmao

👑 pic.twitter.com/3zTjwW3QbP

— The Moral Vision (@ethanves) September 14, 2021

ugh, deeply otm, except for the part where he's humoring everyone by saying that "he likes the show"

one of my fave punchlines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrbZxtuUdsQ

Lol.

The Bill Clinton murdered a guy thing has just been such a find.

"the most toothsome dish in all of gastro... nomy."

holy shit, is gastronomy where "nom nom nom" comes from

I mean no of course not

Norm on the Clintons:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CT2EXaDj0lt/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrFU5wyd_C0

this is deeply funny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnmplSPgwEQ

Larry King is such a perfect foil for him, he's so naturally gullible

The way he says, "Watch it, buddy" at the end had me in stitches last night.

King's initial reaction when he thinks he's got a scoop!

the "Sully" prequel is probably my favorite of his Conan bits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zck9hlMl6w

Oh wow that version is what…a dress rehearsal? Weird. This is the clip I remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEuIP_ZHDAc

I think he did the Sully bit straight after the Hudson incident, on Conan's show Feb 2009 (second video)... and then reframed it as a prequel (with the same "clips") about a month after the Tom Hanks movie came out in another appearance in Oct 2016 (first video). Oh well, why not.

Sullying his memory

oh that's interesting, I didn't realize the movie came out 7 years later! first appearance was definitely funnier..."where'd I meet him...oh uh, airport!"

another great Norm bit was him trying to do ads for the "Mangrate" on his podcast. no surprise they wound up dropping him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2XawdY22Ek

sully sullenberg: airport pilot xp

Maron re-posted Norm's WTF appearance and it was nice to hear him being more vulnerable, but I had a really hard time getting around how often he dropped the R-word throughout the whole thing.

yeah i loved the interview but also flinched every time he said that

Which was probably what he was going for.

Eh, I guess it's a fool's errand to figure out what was a bit from this guy, but it really felt like just a guy way too comfortable with dropping that word, imo.

he does do that sometimes, I remember one interview where he was extremely profane in a way that was really out of character, I think he gathered it was making the interviewer uncomfortable so he kept doing it

it's still inexcusable of course but I give Norm a little more leeway because he's such a pure comedian - he says what he thinks will make the audience laugh, I don't think there's much more to it than that. I don't get the sense from him that I do from guys like Chappelle and Bill Burr where they want to be transgressive but also profound, where it's funny but also true, except if you get offended, in which case of course it's a joke you idiot. Norm always seems to present himself as the least informed guy in the room. again, not saying it's excusable but it doesn't bother me the way it does when say Chappelle does a 10 minute routine about pronouns

TW homophobia

Here's an example of an incredibly funny bit that's also super problematic/offensive/retrograde. I know its bad but his delivery is sooooo good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX_gUQeZcB8

I will say that personally, as a gay man, I don't find that too offensive, but that's just me.

I really hate that all the most watched Norm videos are complilations

Norm lost Mangrate as a podcast sponsor because of how he did the ad reads, but to this day he's still the only reason I know what the hell a Mangrate is. pic.twitter.com/C4o7DZJ1Dh

— Dan Ryckert (@DanRyckert) September 14, 2021

Absolutely classic. Andy Dick was so good

"Chicken! Steak! Has never tasted so good!"

Was thinking recently what a lost opportunity it was not having him play J. Jonah Jameson in one of the shitty Spider-Man movies.

Not angry enough

J K Simmons as JJJ possibly the most perfectly cast Marvel Universe character ever tbh

Is he still playing him? Doesn't really matter tbh I just want a What If JJJ who's kind of a sarcastic dick about the existence of Spider-Man

New special on Netflix (basically him on a webcam), followed by Letterman, O'Brien, Molly Shannon, David Spade and (of course) Dave Chapelle talking about how great he was.

the format wasnt as weird as i was expecting. it certainly didnt feel like standup, but as conan says in the aftershow thing it felt like one of his talkshow appearances where he just ignored the host & went off on extended riffs. with the obvious exception of one unfortunate bit, i liked it. ofc would have been 20 times funnier to get to see him do it in front of an audience, teasing them with it, pushing & pulling their reactions, etc.

thought the discussion afterwards was pretty expendable, chapelle-averse viewers wouldnt be missing anything by just hitting stop after the norm part

the biggest laugh during the panel was when i realized david spade was sitting in a non-panel chair and probably only there because of sandler.

chapelle-averse

Bombing like this in front of a crowd of this kind of person is probably one of the greatest achievements in art. Making a fool out of yourself in front of a crowd of 30 year old white women trying to desperately hold onto the nostalgia of their youth is the top of the mountain https://t.co/K4RS1G8B4J

— ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴘᴀʟ, ᴅᴀᴋᴏᴛᴀ (@DEEP_RED_BELLS) August 18, 2023

this was under a video of DJ Crazy Times performing to an unenthusiastic looking audience, I think this is almost right and that what made Norm Macdonald unusual was that he successfully gave the impression (accurate or not) that he really didn't care if the audience found him funny and was primarily entertaining himself. Most stand-ups have this palpable neediness which can be off-putting (or this confrontational fuck you stance towards the audience which feels like a disguised form of the same neediness), but Norm came across like he was actually indifferent to whether the crowd thought he was funny or not.

I saw an interview with Chris Elliot where he talked about how the first time he appeared on screen on Late Night with Letterman he said something that made Dave laugh, and that the fact he made Dave laugh made the audience laugh, and that his technique over the next few years, given that he was starting out and didn't really know at that point how to play to an audience directly, was to try and make Letterman laugh because he knew that would get the audience to laugh as well, and that disconnection from the audience is part of what makes those Late Night bits so funny, like a comedy version of 'we just make music for ourselves and if anyone else likes it that's a bonus'. I guess it's maybe just a version of deadpan, where the comedian if funnier if they look like they're not trying to get you to laugh?

sorry, that was the wrong tweet, supposed to be this one:

Oh dude that's it, thats why I think this dude has popped off so hard, he understands that Norm school of comedy where completely losing some of the crowd makes you so much better for the rest of them

— ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴘᴀʟ, ᴅᴀᴋᴏᴛᴀ (@DEEP_RED_BELLS) August 18, 2023

what is that even a response to?

I don’t think the TikTok dork doing hacky “lost in translation” jokes is Neil Hamburger.

Trying to put some meta spin on a guy coasting off ‘90s nostalgia is not it

I don’t think it’s quite right that Norm didn’t care if people laughed, it’s more that he had the confidence to persevere with a bit even when the audience might be struggling to catch up.

Norm has really been a victim of posthumous projection and revisionism from all ends of the internet. I worried he’s going to end up a Bill Hicks figure if he hasn’t already

people doing that with comedians generally is so weird

Norm seems very unlike Hicks, Carlin and others like that. A comedy for comedy’s sake guy rather than a cultural critic.

Which is why his stuff holds up better imo

I'll take Carlin over Norm any day

I don't understand, is the Jonas Bros supposed to be there or not supposed to be there.

Because it completely fits in with the rest of the discussion.

Dance like no one gives a shit.

Norm himself has drawn parallels between his compulsions as a gambling addict who doubles-down when possibly losing their bankroll, and his compulsions to double-down on a bad/awkward bit if he's losing the audience.

Norm is nothing like Hicks, idk if he's ever said anything about him directly but I know he really hated that particular style of comedy. the big difference between him and other lionized comedians is that instead of wanting to be the smartest guy in the room Norm wanted to come off as the dumbest, which is why he can land jokes like "You know who Germany wanted to go to war with?? The WORLD"

but yeah I think Neil Hamburger is a much better analogue to what the thread bump is about; when Norm "bombs" you can still see and hear parts of the audience laughing, when Neil does it the audience is actively hostile, and he antagonizes them right back, which makes the whole experience really funny if you're in the know

Norm is exactly like Hicks in that that a certain subset of the internet sees him as a libertarian/right wing free-speech hero and gravitate towards his edgiest material

well by that measure the next Bill Hicks is clearly Dave Chappelle, a dude whose entire act now is just "let me tell it like it is" and then complaining that people get upset by his comedy

whenever Norm gets asked a question about politics he generally responsed with amusment that anyone would care what he thinks, because he openly admitted he doesn't really follow it. he probably has said some things about free speech and I know he defended Shane Gillis when he got fired from SNL but if you watch his stuff it's seriously like 0% of his act

I'm not saying anything about his comedy, I'm just saying what his legacy is becoming among reddit people

Norm is exactly like Hicks in that that a certain subset of the internet sees him as a libertarian/right wing free-speech hero and gravitate towards his edgiest material

― sean paul akerman (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 21 August 2023 15:33 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this isn't really what being like someone is

what is that even a response to?

― budo jeru, Saturday, August 19, 2023 9:21 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

what his legacy is becoming among reddit people

you can just not care

It was a response to a comment on that DJ Crazy Times video

oh

way off the mark imo.

Norms “comedians are not philosophers” take needs more airtime. Big fan of his controversial opinion that comedians should tell jokes

Although I think norm did break his own rules in his post-humous Netflix special. That one did not rub me the right way.

Norm seems less alt-right-free-speech adjacent in his comedy, and more dirtbag-left-let’s-make-fun-of-the-ludicrousness-blinders-the-liberal-media-have-on-without-being-a-redneck-per-se. That, mixed with enjoying shocking people is the totality of his edge (which yeah, I guess “shocking people” is a bit of an alt-right signifier these days).

His appearance on “the view” sums this all up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3PP_SWHUQQ

Norm seems less alt-right-free-speech adjacent in his comedy, and more dirtbag-left-let’s-make-fun-of-the-ludicrousness-blinders-the-liberal-media-have-on-without-being-a-redneck-per-se.

I love Norm and I know that "dirtbag left" is probably shorthand here, but it's worth saying that Norm MacDonald was not in any way shape or form of "the left"

hes not much of a political thinker at all so I kinda wonder if he became that way because of the particular era of SNL he was on

I guess it feels like everyone is misunderstanding Whiney here, he's talking about how the work of a comedian is interpreted and how/where it "lives on." Sure, one could just ignore it, that's totally a valid choice.

But I'd guess most people would agree that, on some level, it can be interesting to talk about how someone's body of work is received.

well not amongst the biggest dipshits in the YouTube comment section

I guess it feels like everyone is misunderstanding Whiney here

read that again and possibly consider whether "everyone" misunderstanding something is not actually a signifier of whether the point is well made or possibly just wrong altogether

My point is pretty unassailable if you’ve spent five minutes on the aforementioned subreddits and YouTube comment sections

So that’s why it didn’t make sense

Anyway, thank you intheblanks

not saying you're wrong whiney im saying its a weird angle to insist on, its a small angle but insofar as it goes sure revisionism from youtube comments is a wild beast and whence it takes us none living can say

im not sure anybody misunderstood the point but it isnt afaict the discussion ppl were having?