Pick Leee's next school, win a dollar

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or, Leee vs. Higher Education, Round 2

It's getting near time to apply to grad school again, and this time I'm going to apply to more than two places.

My background and academic interests/intents:

Asian from the Bay Area (pertinent if you're a lousy horsefarm descended from robberbarons like Stanfurd)

BA in English from Berkeley

I'm aiming towards a PhD

authors I'd like to discuss: Woolf, Pynchon, maybe Joyce, Ondaatje

don't like or know much theory (so a program with flexibility/permissiveness is u&k)

the issue that I almost always end up analyzing is the nature of narration.

as much as I say I like analyzing narrative, I find comics to be a terminal passion, and if there's a way to marry the academic with my secret shame, I'd be a happy camper.

With some/most of these in mind, a prof. has suggested Ann Arbor, Cornell, UCIrvine, UVirginia. Would you suggest any others?

― Sir Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Irvine is pretty theory-heavy

― ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 05:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm also applying to grad schools for english, but i dont think my prospects are as good as yours! since it seems you can go anywhere, i say go somewhere warm like San Diego.

― ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 05:17 (twenty-two years ago)

"anywhere"

I forgot to mention (though there's a horrible thread documenting my painful writhing) that I got waitlisted at UCI, but still didn't get in. And aside from the notoriety that Berkeley gives me and a rather precise idea of what I might want to study, I don't regard my prospects all that hotly.

― Sir Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 05:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Wish I had some ideas for you, Lee. I'd think any school should be honored to have you.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

how do you discuss those authors without using theory? would you consider other countries?

― Clare (not entirely unhappy), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 07:35 (twenty-two years ago)

rutgers is cheap and an hour from NYC ... and has an EXCELLENT english grad dept.

― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry, RU is on the other coast ...

― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Well since UVA and Cornell (NY, natch) are in the east, Rutgers def. a consideration.

And to answer Clare's query: very carefully.

― Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Johns Hopkins?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 1 October 2003 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

rutgers, great school, awful area. cornell and uva (the last one i guess) would be nicer. if that's a consideration. though rutgers is hella cheap...

― justin s., Wednesday, 1 October 2003 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

is rutgers cheap? how cheap cf princeton?

― Clare (not entirely unhappy), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

rutgers is a state school -- i'm guessing tuition would be $10K/yr in-state, $15K/yr out-of-state.

princeton is private -- i'm guessing tuition is around $30K/yr.

― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Thursday, 2 October 2003 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

don't like or know much theory (so a program with flexibility/permissiveness is u&k)

I think you're going to run into bumps with this in nearly any PhD English program -- they're more and more theory-driven these days, both at the curriculum level and the dissertation level, and that's going to be more and more true the higher up the ladder you go. (My ex is ABD at Tulane; she didn't take a single course without a heavy theory component, and they're not even a specifically theory-oriented school.) There are bound to be exceptions, but if this is key for you, you want to look carefully. If this is very key for you, I'd weight it higher than what authors and movements a school favors, because it's going to be easier to get interested in other authors, or work with the ones you like somewhere with imperfectly compatible faculty, than to jump half-heartedly into theory.

(You're not very likely to find a department with a strong interest in Ondaatje, Woolf, and Pynchon that isn't theory-focused, for instance.)

The last time I looked -- which was a bunch of years ago now -- Bowling Green was the best place to go for comic book stuff, but that's in their popular culture department, which is heavy on theory (and my dislike for theory in popular culture departments is why I dropped the pop culture major and didn't go to Bowling Green). But that was .... six or seven years ago now, and Understanding Comics hadn't been out very long. Comics As Literature classes are as common as they are condescending, but they tend to be "get the freshmen interested in college, teach classes on wacky subjects like the X-Men and Star Trek!" classes.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 October 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

(Maybe more importantly, depending on what you want to do after graduate school: the job market for English professors is very terrible right now, with people graduating from top-tier schools taking jobs at community colleges because that's all that's available. A grounding in theory is important to the bulk of your potential employers, if that's the direction you're headed.)

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

the job market for English professors is very terrible right now

It's been that state now for years upon years. It's probably just gotten worse.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, from what I understand it's the worst it's been in a long time. It's gone from "people taking jobs they wouldn't usually" to "people staring blankly because no one is hiring." I don't know if it's better or worse than other disciplines; I have lots of friends looking at the job market for English specifically, in the various sub-fields, and heading to MLA with CVs and hopes in hand.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

i remember considering doing grad studies in either english or poli sci after i graduated. i was told that my grades were good enough to get into a good grad program in either, but that the hiring market for ph.d.'s in those and related fields (like public policy) were lousy. so i went to law school and graduated just when that hiring market turned to shit.

long story short: if you want to do english grad studies, go for it.

― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Thursday, 2 October 2003 04:36 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

I need to revive this again.

It's come to my attention that I never want to read another novel again, which kind of deep sixes my original plan; probably my current thing of emphasis is more towards pop culture (specifically tv and comics). So is it Bowling Green (despite its theoretical foundations)(and what other schools?) for me?

― L(E^24) (Leee), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

how about trying to get a job? that ought to be interesting

― Dean Gulberry (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

The real world scares me!

― L(E^24) (Leee), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Mills College

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

You should go to clown college.

― NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I hear it's real party school. Lots of hot girls.

― NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i know that feeling. about once a week i decide literature is a waste time. (of course, i decide just about everything is a waste of time at one point or another)

do you think you might rather do tv and comics from within a communications department? (no more novels that way at least)

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

History of Consciousness is the only graduate program I've ever seriously considered.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i think you should maybe do what i decided to do. since i go back and forth about what i want to do, esp with a straight film studies degree versus english versus philosophy, i applied to different programs with different ideas of what i want to study. so i am applying to a film studies program, english programs, and even a dual english-philosophy phd program. if you dont have too many limitations on how many schools you can apply to i would do that. but if you KNOW for sure that comics is it, then dont listen to me.

a lot of good schools for pop culture are on the tip of my brain but they arent coming yet.

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Berkeley Rhetoric?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

It's come to my attention that I never want to read another novel again

Hahaha, Leee! This was me exactly three years ago: my last two years as an undergraduate, I was dead-set on doing an English Ph.D., and then once I graduated and started looking into programs, I was all like "Read Milton? Fuck that noise!" And so I kept groping for places that I could do, like, general cultural-studies work but, like you, started to develop an aversion to theory (or at least academic bullshit), and so that ruled out dozens of places. And then I thought I'd maybe do a creative writing/criticism program at CalArts, but when I visited it seemed like such a sad and lonely place, and that's when I realized, "Wait, I don't actually need to go to graduate school, do I?"

That said, I know that Northwestern's Comparative Literary Studies Ph.D. program is fairly unique: You can choose one of three tracks -- Diaspora Studies, Film and Media Studies, and Literature and Critical Theory. Focusing on Film and Media Studies might be the way to go.

Also, the University of Chicago has a Master's Program in the Humanities (2-year program) that is one of the most flexible graduate programs I've come across: you have to take one or two intro classes on theory, but then after that you can choose classes from any humanities department pretty much a la carte.

What do you mean about Bowling Green's "theoretical foundations"? My impression of that school (my dad did graduate work there and befriended a couple of the pop-culture profs) is that it's actually fairly non-theoretical, i.e., pop culture approached more from a historical, American-studies angle. Perhaps it's changed, I don't know. But the work published in the Journal of Popular Culture (edited at BGSU), from what I remember reading of it in the late 90s, bore little resemblance to French-influenced (or even British-style) cultural studies.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't know if there's a grad program, but uc santa cruz has a strong history of consciousness program.

― Dean Gulberry (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

CLEVER (i.e. thanks for the informative post JMC)

― L(E^24) (Leee), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm pretty sure it's a Ph.D. program, too. But you know, that program, and maybe it's just the name, has always seemed pretty theory-crazy to me, like nothing is actually grounded in empirical reality, it's all just "consciousness." Like Judith Butler saying that not just gender is a construct but physical sexual difference, too. (Wha?) (That's a strike against Berkeley Rhetoric, too!) (Christ, I'm jaded about this stuff.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

my general attitude is to think of the phd as serving time until freedom. i dont think there is any perfect place that will give you (or me, for that matter) the freedom you want - so be prepared to make some concessions to whatever program you work in. if they want to shove theory down your throat, take it, then you can throw all that out the window if you want down the road.

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah good point, Ryan. What exactly do you want to do with the degree, Leee?

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Bowling Green has a good hockey team, and its own Curling Squad! Get Your Broom!

plus, you'll only be 45 mins away! Beer in Ann Arbor!

― Jay Dee Sah Mon (Kingfish), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Old answer was I wanted to teach, but that was with an eye on lit. Now, w/ the tv/comics thing, teaching/being a hoity toity critic are still ok, but so is consuming it/reviewer (neither of which require an advanced degree I know, but in my perfect world I am professional student).

― L(E^24) (Leee), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

Leee, how is this going?

I have a few questions on this subject that you MIGHT be able to answer...I'll email you when I get a moment.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Not a lot to report right now since I'm playing ~~the waiting game~~ Hungry Hungry Hippos, though there seems to have been a mix up of materials at Bowling Green that I'm waiting to have sorted.

― Leee Majors (Leee), Sunday, 11 January 2004 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

w00t, just got an email from Bowling Green telling me I'm in -- unequivocally this time, no wait list hoo hah for me! I'm also getting a tuition waiver plus a paltry TA stipend, but yo, free money. Only drawback is I have to commit by March 12, and I don't know if I'll hear from the other schools by then.

Also, a stack of my comics just fell over. Not a good omen.

― Leee the Whitey (Leee), Thursday, 26 February 2004 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Congratulations, Leee!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

rock on, dude. you'll be able to follow the Reds and the Indians without batting an eye!

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Congrats -- and if you haven't heard from the other schools by a couple days before BG's date, call BG and ask for more time. I had to do that last year, it wasn't a big deal.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Take me with you!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(errrr, well done!)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Welcome to Ohio! I think you're located pretty close to the Mudhens.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I used to live in Ohio. As a foreigner, I actually found it very exotic.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Keeping with my newfound interest in pop culture, I posted to the America's Next Top Model thread before I posted here!

― Leee the Whitey (Leee), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

yay leee! what will that make, like five of us ilxors in the midwest? (chicago doesn't count)

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

welcome to snow land. you'll only be 45 minutes south of ann arbor.

― Kingfish Beatbox (Kingfish), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

(xp--Chicago *should* count) Yay Lee!
http://simplyspiffing.com/~nohands/index/yay.jpg

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Congrats Leee.

what will that make, like five of us ilxors in the midwest? (chicago doesn't count)

Are there even that many?

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

there are lots of midwesties in the hizzy, Nicole, even if Chi ain't counted. AND NOW LEEE!

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, you, me, Nicole, Tep, Kingfish, J0hn...

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Leee, a warning, your rite of passage to becoming a Midwesterner will involve corn on the cob.

xpost I'm not an official Ilxor but I live in ohio

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

congrats lee!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

but how will you handle all those bengals fans who are still pissed off about the niners beating cincinnati in the super bowl all those years ago? :-)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

...Jordan C., KirstenMK when she's here, NatePatrin, PeteScholtes, DylanHicks, all the other TwinCities folks...

(oh and j0hn doesn't count anymore, he moved)

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

but how will you handle all those bengals fans who are still pissed off about the niners beating cincinnati in the super bowl all those years ago? :-)

ugh, which time? *sobbing in fetal position*

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

okay okay, I don't think the twin cities count either but that's totally unreasonable. If there are so many of us why no FAPs?

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

and congratulations LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Ummm, so who won the dollar?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this also mean that you are going to become a gentleman industrialist/farmer, cultivate an applachian accent, and never return to the Yay Area again?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Rah for Leee! Oddly enough one of my student workers here in the library is probably going to attend grad school there too in fall, so if you see a Niki Libarios around say hi...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

x-p: Teeny:
1. Minnesota is usually considered MUCH more midwestern than your state!
2. We don't FAP because we're all Midwestern: passive-aggressive, repressed, kinda scared of each other.*

*This is a lie. It's because we suck.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, c'mon. lets fap. midwest styleee

― todd swiss (eliti), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Tep, how do you want your dollar?

Actually thinking about the terms they've given me -- how good can BGSU be if they're willing to waive tuition for me?

― Leee the Whitey (Leee), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Leee, a warning, your rite of passage to becoming a Midwesterner will involve corn on the cob.

My teeth are strong. I like corn!

Also, thanks to all you kind folk for putting up with my grad school melodrama.

~*kisses*~

― Tweee the Wily (Leee), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Did I suggest Bowling Green?!

(That isn't a "oh crap, he took me seriously" tone, don't get me wrong, I just don't remember it. Also, if you hate the Midwest, please don't blame me. Jungle Jim's is very nice, and there is a fine selection of native cheeses and pork products.)

Don't sell yourself short re: the tuition waiver. Schools can smell promise! Or something.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:30 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

An update:

Cornell sez no (just as well given the anti-Ivy sentiments here!)

Chicago just said yes, and more interestingly, their email (which I almost mistook for spam!) actually makes specific mention of my application!

― Leee the Lee (Leee), Friday, 12 March 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Leee, are you coming tonight? Or is too much of a schlep?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I should be able to make it, if yall will still be around at about 8.

― O.Leee.B. (Leee), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I'm certain we will.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

congrats, btw!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks! I'm actually a bit torn now: there's the money and fame at BG, but the adulation at UChi!

― O.Leee.B. (Leee), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

MidWest is MidBest!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

oh wait, that came out wrong.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Today's march 12th, is it too late for BG yet?

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 12 March 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

4/15 seems to be the absolute latest for all grad schools, I think.

― O.Leee.B. (Leee), Friday, 12 March 2004 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

So what's the good (or mediocre?) word on BG? (aka the post where I get ilx to do the research I ought to be doing.)

― O.Leee.B. (Leee), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll have to ask student worker Niki about that again when I see her next week, but I think she liked her visit out there last week.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 March 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

Bowling Green
+
<LI>Tantalizing courses (women in action (i.e. SYDNEY BRISTOW))
<LI>Two year MA program
<LI>I get to head my own section w/in a year, then get my own class
<LI>The pop culture program seems to have some prestige
<LI>Aforementioned money

-
<LI>What an @$$ town.
<LI>The level of discourse seems equivalent to an undergrad class at Berkeley.
<LI>Tiny department (both good and bad, actually)
<LI>What an @$$ town. (Then again, I prob wouldn't be going out all that much anyway.)
<LI>COLD

Chicago
+
<LI>Prestige
<LI>Extremely high level of discourse
<LI>Employment resources
<LI>More ilx0rs in the area!

-
<LI>Lack of courses specifically dealing w/ pop culture
<LI>(Over) Emphasis on theory
<LI>1 year to do a thesis (my last experience w/ a 1 year course that culminates in a thesis, I dropped out)
<LI>COLDER

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Go for the discouse. Everything else is just cosmetic!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

But come back to the Bay Area when you are done. If you are lucky, I might even still be here!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I'm leaning to U of C because of that.

xp-- After wherever I go, I'm going to try to come back to Cali (UCLA? Berkeley II?) for my (gasp) PhD!

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

God help me, I might even apply to UCLA, though I know I don't have a hope in hell of going there.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

+
Toledo Mudhens!

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

-
Toledo!

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

What is the Chicago program in, if not pop culture? (It might be upthread, I didn't see.)

The teaching experience you mention with BG would be a very good thing when you hit the job market, assuming you'd look for teaching jobs; a lot of my friends are on or have been on the market in the last couple years, and that's been a major "we're down to two or three candidates, which one do we pick" criterion.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

everyone I know who went to chicago became a humorless bitter artifact. just a warning.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd agree with Tep about teaching. ALso, the level of discourse is really subjective, I think. In what sense is UofC "higher" than BG? If you mean they're whipping out their Derrida every five minutes, well, is that really a good thing? If the discourse at BG is stimulating and more in key with what you're interested in, I'd say that's the better choice. (Also, will you be able to take writing courses at either one? Or is that not a consideration?)

― Prude (Prude), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Leee, don't listen to Kyle.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Regarding the lack of pop-cult-specific courses at U of C -- I'm sure you've seen some of the thesis titles of recent graduates in MAPH:

"Back to the Future, Parts I, II and III: The Past and Present of the Sequel"

"Sutured Spectacle: The Contemporary Film Musical and Blockbuster Aesthetics"

"Reiteration and Excess in the Digital Performances of Björk and Mariko Mori"

"Spy Like Us: Alias and the Secret Identity of the New Television Superheroine"

"TELL ME IF IT HURTS: Ethics and Aesthetics of Talk Show Schadenfreude"

So, it's not like U of C is antithetical to pop-cult studies. But you probably do have to carve it out more for yourself.

Also: if you go on to a Ph.D., what kind of program would it be in? If you go back to an English program, then maybe a humanities MA would look better than a pop-culture MA?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

do you know people from U of C who aren't bitter humorless artifacts? They were all in the philosophy department, though, admittedly.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

The problem with the pop-culty English theses (is this an English program?) is that they can often be passed without any actual background in pop culture theory -- which is fine if you don't want to pursue a career in pop culture, but if you do, it'll show when you're interviewing for a pop culture program and they ask you to talk about your thesis.

But that really only matters if you want to go on to a pop culture program, and from there to the field; otherwise it's not going to come up.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Philosophy people are bitter humorless artifacts everywhere!

(Well, not always. But it's not a factor to ignore.)

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

(I minored in philosophy nb)

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, Tep OTM.

(The U. of C. program is a general Humanities program; the BGSU one is in Pop Culture.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I know people who graduated with BAs from U. of C. who aren't humorless artifacts, but they got out of there right after graduation. I get the impression that the school has an evil way of sucking you into its sphere, though. When I first moved to Chicago, my girlfriend at the time moved into a Hyde Park apartment with some schlubby 40-year-old perpetual student.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

He was creepy and listened to opera.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Bowling Green just has a more fun name.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The university preschool is nice. (I lived there when I was 3.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I know some great people who went to U of C! Not philosophy people though.

"Spy Like Us: Alias and the Secret Identity of the New Television Superheroine"

Woohoo!

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, search: that cool playground across from the apartments on Juniper St.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

have you checked out the communications dep't of mcgill u leee?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 8 April 2004 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

A bit late to look into other master's (is McGill an MA?) programs, though if it's offered as a PhD, I'll look into it.

What I meant about "level of discourse" was an obfuscating way of saying "How smart are my would-be classmates." I sat in on one class for each school; at BGSU, they got stuck on a fundamental issue that shouldn't have been part of the debate; at U of C, there was waaay too much emphasis on psychoanalytic theory but in spite of which, the rest of the students were sharper.

I also asked about the college backgrounds of the incoming BG students, who were almost all from mid-west state schools. (One from UPenn and one from UCLA.)

But the real kicker in favor of U of C is that they're offering a graphic novel WORKSHOP next fall!

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that so rare, though? Workshops are part and parcel of most curriculums (sp) these days (according to many of the Masters progs I've looked at), necessary to attract today's tech-savvy and creative student

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

leee: yes they do! phd that is

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm supposing it is.

A point in BG's favor though is that the head of the Pop cult dept. has the season 1 Alias DVD, and a fair collection of Batgirl comics.

xpost awesome s1ocki, I have a plan for the future!

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

The psychoanalytic thing could be because of the prof, depending on how it came up; unfortunately, it's hard to tell with that kind of thing. (Department curriculums might favor a particular school of theory, but I think it's less common for a student population to do so, except sometimes if it's a school where most of the graduate students did their undergrad there).

By the way! An important to consider. Critical, in my experience:

How many of the graduate classes -- not just the ones on the books, but the ones actually offered, as well as the ones which form the core required curriculum for the program -- are actually classes unto themselves, and not simply graduate sections of a larger undergraduate course? Most of the "graduate" classes I'm encouraged to take at IU are actually a section of 2-3 grad students in a 40-200 person undergraduate class, with extra papers and meetings added on for us; the level of discourse, in other words, is exceptionally poor. I've had to ditch those types of courses whenever possible and form my own curriculum, which is not making me popular with the administration.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

(It's not always easy to tell if a graduate class is simply a section in another course; at IU, they often don't list them as such, and you have to scan the rest of the course offerings to make sure you don't see it noted in the description of the undergrad course.)

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I def. sensed the psychoanal was part of the prof's spiel/background.

Second suggestion duly noted!

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Whoa, shortening the word "psychoanalysis" that way...it's a bit open to misinterpretation when tired.

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Thursday, 8 April 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Then my job is complete.

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Thursday, 8 April 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Garn, I was just about set on Chicago yesterday and even was drafting an apology email to BG, but today I feel pained about the classes I'd miss there! I hate my indecisiveness.

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Sunday, 11 April 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

There's no denying that they're both good schools -- there's no ravenous snake-dog hiding behind either of these doors, I don't think. So much of grad school can depend on what you bring in, how you decide to approach it, that really I don't think there's a wrong decision here. And if worse came to absolute worst, you could always transfer, and be out nothing but the price of moving.

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 11 April 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

That's very true. Go where you feel you'll grow most, where what you hold to be important is held as important, too. If you feel like you're going to be frustrated by the catching-up students at BG have to do, go to UC. If the theory-heavy-ness of UC is going to frustrate you, go to BG. I agree with Tep that neither of these choices is really bad. The question at this point might be whether or not you'd regret not going to one rather than the other.
(But that graphic novel workshop does sound really cool... If that's part of the curriculum, then maybe it's not so single-minded as you might fear.)

― Prude (Prude), Monday, 12 April 2004 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

<LI>I get to head my own section w/in a year, then get my own class

That sounds key to me if your goal is still to teach.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 12 April 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

I turned my thesis in today.

I still have two papers left, but I don't know when one of them is due. I'm ready to sleep for 20 hours.

― L (Leee), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

wow. congrats. go sleep now.

― mouse (mouse), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Yay sleep! Yay thesis and yay Leee! :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:13 (twenty-one years ago)

woo!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

oh hell yeah

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:26 (twenty-one years ago)

five months pass...

So it's time for my semi-annual applying to higher education travails, this time for a PhD in funology (i.e. pop culture/tv). My prospective schools, in relative order of preference, descending: Duke, UCLA, Northwestern, Berkeley, Wisconsin-Madison.

But, getting an idea of the very finite financial resources for which I'd be competing with other students who, I'd assume, are smarter/more driven than I am, and perhaps for the first time, I'm very very scared. Then again, I've already committed $45 to the letter of recommendation service, so there's no point in throwing that money away! Still, if you can offer assurances, that'd be appreciated; I do think that grad school/academia is something that's right for me, despite the Fears I have.

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Monday, 7 November 2005 05:31 (twenty years ago)

did you ever pay the winner of this thread?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 7 November 2005 05:37 (twenty years ago)

Or should I forget about my obsession with narrative theory for more professional degrees, like public policy or Nutrition(!)?

xpost - shhh!

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Monday, 7 November 2005 05:37 (twenty years ago)

here's where i'm applying (master's in urban planning/land use): cal poly san luis obispo, nyu, rutgers, u of wisconsin (milwaukee), u of michigan, ucla. cal poly slo is in the lead -- i've heard great things about their program, mostly that it's very hands-on (not just hippie-dippie theory) and their grads GET JOBS. the others are in no particular order.

― bird-person-person (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 November 2005 05:40 (twenty years ago)

what's a letter of recommendation service?

― bird-person-person (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 November 2005 05:43 (twenty years ago)

I.e. a service that stores and sends out letters of rec. and sundry supplemental material for you so that everything looks official, which I was told looks quite a lot better than sending them out yourself.

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Monday, 7 November 2005 05:46 (twenty years ago)

I thought you went to Chicago?

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 7 November 2005 07:01 (twenty years ago)

Please tell me they really call it "funology" and not something boring like "media culture sociology".

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 7 November 2005 07:18 (twenty years ago)

Chicago was a 1 year program.

Alas, "funology" is my neologism.

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Monday, 7 November 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Do you feel like the MAPH was useful for you, Lee? I know someone who just started that program this fall.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 7 November 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

Absolutely! It was like eating my vegebobbles -- I complained and whined and pulled faces for 8 months, but in the end, I wrote a smooth and shiny thesis, and I also think genuinely that it made me smarter/better read.

I highly recommended taking the Academic/Professional Writing course. Improved my writing tenfold, and possibly it taught me finally how to read non-fiction prose.

Not that you'd suspect any improvement from that last sentence.

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Monday, 7 November 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

Should I forget it all, go back to undergrad to do something more analytic like math?

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 03:11 (twenty years ago)

Get a real job, hippie.

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 03:24 (twenty years ago)

Math = analytic = REAL JOB.

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

you could join one of the big math firms!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 04:25 (twenty years ago)

you could grade tests for ETS!

― bird-person-person (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 04:29 (twenty years ago)

You mean like Google?

― Wolfcastleee (Leee), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 04:30 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Duke: no
UCLA: no

I have the phear that I will have the dreaded giant-sized sombrero and go 0 for 7.

― c(''c) (Leee), Friday, 3 February 2006 20:20 (twenty years ago)

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