Do you rate the Sopranos?

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Well? I keep trying to watch it and it just leaves me cold. I mean is the mafia even an interesting issue anymore? I don't think so, by any means. Not only this but even as a piece of work about the mafia the Sopranos is dud, it feels like Goodfellas except it's had whatever venom still remained in that kind of story removed for TV. Do you ever feel that after something has been done to death for fans of a medium it comes back slightly homogenised as a curiosity for the general audience. I mean I was thinking the same thing about grunge, it's like a chance 8 years later for people who never were there first to do so. Or at least think they are.

So?

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought it was shit at first, then i kinda liked it. But now its shit again.

― Fuzzy (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:25 (twenty-three years ago)

B-b-but isn't the point of The Sopranos that it's ironic?

― Jane, Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I rate it considerably...and well may it leave you cold, you're not supposed to warm to the characters really given they're all criminals or fuck-ups of some other kind. The issue of interest in the programme is how people in Tony and his 'colleagues' act and deal with the problems they all too often create for themselves out of carelessness, lack of foresight or sheer side-effect of another supposedly beneficial deed. The Sopranos attempts to portray these people in a much more realistic light, they dont 'bling bling' half as much as you're used to seeing mafioso portrayed. in fact the majority of the time we see them struggling with the far more mundane areas of live that all people deal with...with Tony's family life, it often becomes completely irrelevant that he does what he does in business - he could be any comfortable but stressed guy trying to deal with a rebellious daughter and a feckless teenage son. thats just a small area of the programme's scope as there are so many other characters to explore. the programme has developed over the years to cover a much broader range of issues than just 'here's what mafia people really get up to' though...i was going to start a thread asking 'is it just a glorified soap opera?' as i have begun to think that that is the case, but if so its the best soap opera ever as it remains sharp, funny, unpredictable and ironically more realistic than anything else out there, and you cant deny the scripts and acting from the majority of the cast are superb in every episode.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:31 (twenty-three years ago)

and i'm as bored by the glorification of gangsters and renegades as much as anyone btw

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:33 (twenty-three years ago)

No I see that but I think that theme "criminals are not just 1 dimensional bad guys, here's them at home" is a bit tired too. When I say leaves me cold I mean I just can't warm to anything about it, I find it all a bit turgid. It's not so much the glorification, it's the watching them have a hilariously inane conversation that gets me a little.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:35 (twenty-three years ago)

but i dont think thats really empthasized much now....EVERYONE has inane conversations - so of course they do. actually i think the creators of the show are aware that the entire nature of the mafia or at least the way they are perceived is 'very 20th century' and they inject that into the characters...as they get older they start to find they are has-beens or cannot cope as well in this day and age due to various factors.

surely your problem is with american dramas in general? i think The Sopranos is the peak of that genre at the mo - I never watched ER or The West Wing (i know they're all very different shows) as they just couldnt hold my interest as much as The Sopranos...maybe I am secretly drawn to the old 'hey crime and gangsters ARE cool and exciting' idea and I can't admit it...but i stand by the belief that just the quality of content and performance in the show is very strong, at least compared to anything else on TV...i'd say 'Six Feet Under' was as good though.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Mobsters belong with vampires and serial killers in the special class of iredeemably cliche themes. Even if someone is portraying them in a "fresh new persepctive", its still fucking boring.

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 14 January 2003 13:53 (twenty-three years ago)

well i think they're knocking the show on the head after this or the next series so perhaps you're right...but people can't seem to get enough of crime/law shows generally - i didnt watch 'The Shield' either but it was popular no? i can't see what else they can do to really shake up the formula, although if the U.S. made more shows in the style of the UK's 'The Cops' that might work - in fact I think they did that with the recent Dennie Leary vehicle 'The Job' - still waiting to see that here. Also, formats like '24' will probably be milked for a few years yet.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

notice all these shows are the euqivalent of all the current trend in wrock music - everything begins with THE

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:02 (twenty-three years ago)

i always watch sopranos, west wing, six feet under – but buffy is better than all of them at pretty much every level except poss."quality of performance", which is the Get Out Clause of the Grown-Up Soap (haha BtVS's attitude to vamps = identical to fletrejet's!!)

er has always been unwatchable

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Classic, obviously. It's the great American novel, except it's a TV show, the scope of the whole thing is amazing. Similar to the Godfather (film) in many respects, on account of it deals with the concept of the American dream. The Soprano family have made it in America despite being poor immigrants, but they've done it through crime. This is the stain of guilt that's forever etched on Carmela. It is the most accurate portrayal of second/third generation immigrant life I've ever seen as well. The mix of Catholic (/Muslim/Jewish) guilt, alienation from the standard culture, and the desperation for work... captured beautifully.

The conversation thing is basically due to a love of language. People do actually speak like that in real life. The "Try it with the relish" line is obviously English literature's finest moment.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm a Buffy hater...well not entirely, but only 1 out of 5 gags is any good, i find most of the characters too annoying...and the attitude towards gangsters/mafia is one i had towards all that horror stuff for years - i know Buffy can be quite 'clever' and even a parody of itself...but i'm bored with self-parody now and i'm quite glad that wouldnt happen in things like The Sopranos (at least not in the same way).

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:08 (twenty-three years ago)

and props to Dom for nailing The Sopranos on the head whereas i could only dent its kneecaps

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:09 (twenty-three years ago)

We're only up to series three here (4's on E4, should be on terrestial soon), but the most amazing thing about the last series was the slow way that Meadow and AJ were slowly turning into their parents. When AJ has that panic attack dressed in his military school uniform... Meadow's reaction to Jackie's death, as well, was classic Italian widow, it was almost like Hamlet at the funeral, and her slow descent into drunken breakdown at the wake was perfectly shown.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know, I think this half Coen brothers half Tarantino thing of kind of inane circular conversation in a knucklehead style has got quite boring.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

As a final note: the Mafia thing is there because of the concept of "family", another great factor of the American dream. The irony is that he has two families, and he's only in control of one of them.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:13 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm assuming quality of performance != skillZor at acting otherwise that could be construed as a rather rockist statement!

I just cannot make dates with TV shows, but despite only seeing one in four episodes of the Sopranos if I see the start I have to watch them all. Its a magic interplay of the soap form with the drama form (ie things changes, but characters stay the same). The discovery in US TV over the last five years of story arcs which do not necessarily effect character in genre shows has been the key thing that has revitalised it. (ie Non-fear of syndication accessibility).

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:19 (twenty-three years ago)

(buffy is better and more perceptive on family and America, i think: Sops is pretty parochial and sentimental and reactionary on this topic, Godfather retread with dud Freudian dimension; anyway, far better at hooligan slapstick, which i think it choreographs well, though not realistically — possibly because not realistically)

(i mean the Freud is utterly fun to watch obv, and a brilliant displacement device to get to stuff which would never be said, but it's pitiful as actual psychological insight and makes for very clumsy narrative instrusion also...)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:22 (twenty-three years ago)

This was wrote before DOM posted the 2 families bit - but here goes anyway

the Soprano's is a class amongst the modern genre of self discovery boundry pushing TV (OZ, 6ft under etc), like blueski said, the 'Mafia' links are kinda irrelavent to the beauty of the show, its the usual family struggles (rebelion, drugs, defiance, marital etc) that are exerted on tony and Carmela from two families. both have degrees of control over Tony, both are as repugnant, lovable, stupid as the other. And primarily both are linked to a man who has no real control over either yet is head of them both and often can only act in an uncivilised way (but hey its the Mafia).

David Chase doesn't seek to glorify the Mafia - he certainly doesn't have a hard on for them he just see's them as ordinary guys working like 9-5'ers but in a slightly different way.

The Soprano's is great, possibly the best thing i have seen for ages and ages - kept me captivated for five series so far. It has invloved some of my favourite people in film (esp Steve Buscemi who directed the best episode of all), and long may it reign.

Should it be viewed as just a mafia thing - def not, the same way Sipowitz wasn't just a cop, homer isn't just a nucleur technician they have more depth than that - Tony may not have much depth as an individual but as a character he is fantasticly rich.

― james (james), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:23 (twenty-three years ago)

yes pete as you know i believe s.m.gellar's woodenness as an actress is one of the things which makes buffy better than it otherwise would be, though it's also one of the reasons a lot of her other projects are hard going

virtuoso flurries of very diverting acting are one of the pleasures in the sops, obv, but this is also one of the reasons i think there's less there than meets the eye at other levels

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

One of the secrets to the Sopranos is one of the secrets of great television: the main character is probably the least interesting.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Secret of good TV series: You think it is about one thing, is actually about another. As distilled perfectly in Simpsons episodes.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:36 (twenty-three years ago)

They do unfortunatley get rid of great characters - big pussy was one of my fav's. Still at least Silvio is still around - did Steve Van sant ever act before The Soprano's? if not then he is a natural

― james (james), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 14:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I am an enemy of television, and have seen very little of the Sopranos.

What I think of it is this: it is well-acted and well-written, and is made with high production values.

However, at the end of the day the Mafia are a shower of macho pricks the world would be better off without, so it doesn't really hold my interest.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 17:59 (twenty-three years ago)

i betcha wouldnt say dat to dare face now would ya?

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 18:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Pine Barrens episode is the greatest non-sports hour of TV I have ever seen.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 18:03 (twenty-three years ago)

the recent episode where a long-standing adversary of T finally gets his comeuppance was extraordinary...it was a tad unexpected in the way it was timed and delivered, and to see the characters involved go through the whole process of 'cleaning up' so 'professionally' and show no remorse at all for their acts was stunning...morbidly fascinating study of (in)human behaviour that you dont see elsewhere on TV

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 18:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I was about to mention the Pine Barrens episode too - a solid gold classic. Overall, I think it is slightly overrated (besides Buffy, I liked Homicide and Twin Peaks far better), but it is terrific television, made with wit and power.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 20:04 (twenty-three years ago)

is pine barrens the one where chris and the guy w.two-tone hair get lost in the snowed-up forest? i saw that w.dr vick and we larfed non-stop obv!!

hooligan slapstick!!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 20:06 (twenty-three years ago)

What do you think about the habit of recent Sopranos episodes to end midstream, after a banal conversation or a decided pause in an action? At first it seemed daring, now it's beginning to seem like an affectation. That's the problem with series television.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 20:16 (twenty-three years ago)

only abt 5 episodes i ever saw (from first series abt 3 yrs ago), they wer gd. also, one wer joe pantaliano gets dissected/not so gd.

― naked as sin (naked as sin), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 20:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes Mark, that's the one. Chris and Paulie, who is probably my favourite, if only for the great hair.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 20:23 (twenty-three years ago)

The Chris and Paulie also has the classic exchange between Jackie and Meadow:

"Do you want some X?"
"No, I'm taking Nyquil"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 20:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Meadow is hot - thats the REAL reason i watch

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 20:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw the first two series and really enjoyed it but i lost touch. I think it basically is a godfather type soap opera. as watchable as buffy (I lost touch with that too, maybe 'watchable' isn't good enough anymore).

the west wing and ER are really awful.

I think Oz wins but I won't go into it right now: I'll wait till the new series starts (if there is one).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:09 (twenty-three years ago)

There is a new prison series starting tonight. There was a substantial article about it in the Guardian a day or two ago (unless it was the Sunday Indy), discussing whether TV could capture the prison experience honestly. It discussed Porridge but not so much as a mention of Oz. There's an underappreciated series.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:13 (twenty-three years ago)

The Vicar is OTM.

The Sopranos is tat; probably one of the most overrated programmes in television history.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:13 (twenty-three years ago)

The Sopranos is at its best when it's ruled by three characters: Tony, Carmella and Melfi. Melfi was lost in the shuffle of the fourth season, hence it was the worst yet. The first three, however, are nearly infallible. Fantastic writing, great characters, beautifully shot.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:17 (twenty-three years ago)

''It discussed Porridge but not so much as a mention of Oz.''

well, there's a lot of violence and its late at night and I don't think the audiences are great for this.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, but in a discussion of grittily realistic depictions of prison, it very much deserves a mention.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not sure whether its gritty or cartoonish actually.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes. I rate it. It's great.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:58 (twenty-three years ago)

It's probably both, Julio - my point was that the article was about gritty realistic depictions, and even if the writer (an ex-con) thought it was completely bogus, it deserved a paragraph. If one of the best TV dramas I've ever seen can't even get a mention in a feature that could have been designed for it, it is hugely underappreciated. It's like talking about depictions of the mafia on TV and not mentioning the Sopranos.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 21:59 (twenty-three years ago)

pine barrens ep --> directed by steve motherfucking buscemi and certainly my fave

the more i see of this season (on reruns; i gave up on it after about the 3rd show), the more i agree with the pinefox. too much has been made of the show. yancey is OTM about melfi: she - and tony's efforts to work with/toward her - are what made the show great, when it was.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 22:00 (twenty-three years ago)

martin- yeah i guess so. did he mention any american prison shows. if he didn't he could have been concentrating on British TV's depiction of prisons on TV.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 22:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank god for the Pinefox, my thread had become a Sopranos lovefest

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 22:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Do you realise that The Sopranos is the American equivalent of The Office? I just can't work out why.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 22:08 (twenty-three years ago)

The article never said it was about British depictions, but other than this new thing Buried (starting as I type) I can only remember mentions of Porridge.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 22:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank god for the Pinefox, my thread had become a Sopranos lovefest

you still appear to be severely outnumbered - hurray

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 22:45 (twenty-three years ago)

haha i tried to divert it towards entirely higher art ronan

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 January 2003 22:45 (twenty-three years ago)

The vicar is OTM

All very cosy, but that's not what he's saying.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:07 (twenty-three years ago)

What the Vicar is OTM about = the mafia. They're not cosy. Are they?

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 15 January 2003 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

the only sopranos i rate are steve lacy, lol coxhill and evan parker.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 15 January 2003 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

sidney bechet!!

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

''the only sopranos i rate are steve lacy, lol coxhill and evan parker.''

he's right again!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 22:05 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

new season premieres tonight, is supposed to be better than last season.

― teeny (teeny), Sunday, 7 March 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I should hope so. Steve Buscemi!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Dom upthread is right. Sopranos is probably the best thing ever shown on television. As he said, who'd have thought the Great American Novel would actually turn out to be a TV series? Every hour episode of the show is greater than just about any movie released in the last few years.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 March 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

although, teeny, i dont know how it can get any better that the last season; perfection.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 March 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

A grand claim indeed.

(x-post: okay jed, now you must be kidding)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 8 March 2004 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

buscemi buscemi buscemi. . .

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Where am I?

― Steve Buscemi (tracerhand), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

just a couple of shots on the news so far. but i can't wait. . .

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I've seen better.

― Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

it was pretty good but it did diffuse some of the impact of the last season finale which was probably the best episode of the series ever.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

HOLY SHIT DID ANYONE ELSE SEE THAT EPISODE?

― TheNewJMod (JMod), Monday, 17 May 2004 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

SHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

SOME OF US LIVE ON THE WEST COAST!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 17 May 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(and don't have cable so have to wait for the 48hr bittorrent delay(

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 17 May 2004 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

OMG OMG OMG I CAN'T WAIT TILL THE NEW SERIES FINALLY SHOWS OVER HERE!!!1111

Is Steve Buscemi as great as I'd imagine?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 May 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Yo! My hatred of Sopranos ist eternal. Tony looks like a fucking car wreck/babirusa/hippos ass/fat mess/fucking accident/fucking mistake/stinking whore

― slopsymbolic, Monday, 17 May 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Steve Buscemi as great as I'd imagine?

not yet.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 17 May 2004 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i missed the last half b/c someone gave me a call

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 17 May 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm afraid I'm too dumb to understand what all that was about.

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 17 May 2004 09:22 (twenty-two years ago)

omg when is this coming to the uk? when? when? when?

― enrique, Monday, 17 May 2004 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Favorite Buscemi scene so far is from Ep 8, when he makes the hit on Joey Peeps, and the car gets put into motion and runs over his foot. His body language and expressions are great -- he manages to turn the scene from pure violence into comedy in the blink of an eye.

― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

That (last) episode was the weakest of this season so far.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I disagree. Riding horse indoors=CLASSIC

― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

After having lengthy chats with Leee on several subjects this weekend I have really found my tribe/calling - I am a plot nazi. And plot nazis as a whole do not find favour with whimsical horse scenarios. Thought it makes them chuckle. Also- Annette Bening.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

that was funny!

― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm still watching out of momentum, but that episode reminded me of one of the Cerebus dream issues where the entire comic is Cerebus hallucinating while using the bathroom or something. It seems more important than it actually is.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Also... TS: season 5 of the Sopranos vs. the last season of Northern Exposure.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The film students are running the asylum!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

you're a plot nazi and you liked Twin Peaks?

they've done dream sequences before but this one went on a bit long and didn't seem to illuminate enough. It did kind of seem like filler or like it was playing-at-Lynch. There were parts of it I really liked though (the dinner sequence, the extremely Lynchian television stuff).

Buscemi's been fine this season unless what you expect from Buscemi is something more excitable and assholish. I didn't really buy the recidivist angle though, it really seemed out of character for someone who seemed really sweet. I guess that's the deal with the show though, you get comfortable with these characters and forget that they're killers. Anyway, I suspect he will be gone next week.

This season has been very, very good on the whole. I usually get completely lost with all the complicated mafia stuff and can't keep track of the names, but I seem to have it down more this season, also, it's dealing less with weird-ass building permit deals I don't care about and more with "that guy pissed me off, kill him" shit I can understand.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Twin Peaks in an anomaly, but it was part of my formative education in these matters. And there was WAY more plot/character development in even the most obtuse TP episode than there was in this weekend's SORRY ASS Sopranos.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm guessing what we were supposed to get out of this episode is that tony is meant to kill tony. They could have handled it better. That was a nice hotel room though.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

" the extremely Lynchian television stuff). "

actually that reminded me of an obscure hungarian film called "jesus christ's horoscope". i sort of doubt david chase et al have seen that one though.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Why?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

er, because only one print exists in the usa and it is almost never shown, and there is no video, and the film isn't really well-known even in hungary?

but you never know....

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never seen the Soprano's but I can conclusively say that I do not rate it

― Frank Swedehead, Wednesday, 19 May 2004 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

HOLY SHIT

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd also like to give a big fuck you to HBO for holding off on the finale for 2 weeks. Please move it up to next weekend, so I can see it before I move to Australia, k thx.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Now we know why she joined the cast of Joey!!!!!

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

am i the only one who feels like him calling her 'cunt' as he drug her out unneccessary? it just seems like more and more they make these main characters seem like assholes. perhaps they always were but i was cleverly tricked into finding them human along the way.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the only thing wrong with what he did was calling her a "cunt".

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck, lost my post.

I guess I was expecting a little more humanity, "damn this sucks, you're practically family god i'm sorry. . " etc.

but then I guess considering what apparently prompted Chris to call in Tony (seeing trashy, would-be wise guy and family = himself out of the life) I shouldn't have expected much humanity there.

again, perhaps it's good writing that has cleverly duped me into belieiving some of these characters as human.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

All that dialogue with Silvio in the car with Aidriana was painful and awesome.

― TheNewJMod (JMod), Monday, 24 May 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

the whole paradox in this show is that you're duped into feeling like they're human but they're actually monsters. just before it started my wife asked why they've never had Tony go apeshit on Carmella and beat her up (he's hit in her direction, but I don't think he ever hit her); it seems false, in a way, that he hasn't, because he's obviously capable of it (he's hit his girlfriends), but if they writers allowed the character to go there, it would too drastically turn the audience against him. The audience has no sympathy anyway for Chris, I guess.

This was a pretty fucked up episode. The "cunt" thing was disturbing but thank god they kept her murder off camera (the choking was bad enough).

I still don't understand what Tony was doing in that hotel in NY in the dream episode though.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i missed the dream episode.

a couple of eps ago when he goaded janice into losing it just to amuse himself. . .that pretty much turned me against him. it was just the final straw in his long line of unforgivable things.

also re: beating up carmella. .I always figured the kids played some role in the (small) amount of respect he gives her that he doesn't give other women.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

when will this show be on again?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

hbo re-runs them on tuesday or wednesday; non-widescreen version is rrerun on hbo2 tonight. I think it runs on regular hbo again on saturday or something.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess I was expecting a little more humanity, "damn this sucks, you're practically family god i'm sorry. . " etc.

uhhh

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I find it amusing that 'human' and 'monster' or 'asshole' are mutually exclusive in many of these posts. Who but humans would commit genocide or taunt their vitims?

I was so less diturbed by the 'cunt' than by the way she cuddled up to Christopher after he'd almost choked her to death since she had probably feared worse.

Funny all the people hating on the dream episode. I usually find that sort of thing unforgiveably tedious not to mention unbelievable, but I really enjoyed the dream episode. Especially A. Benning yelling out, 'He's too Bugsy.'

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

by "human" I think we actually meant "likeable"

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I was so less diturbed by the 'cunt' than by the way she cuddled up to Christopher after he'd almost choked her to death since she had probably feared worse.

yeah that was bad too. on her part . .whatever. all of the characters are becoming less and less likable every episode.

when you don't like any of the characters, do you keep watching? why?

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

to see what happens

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

but really, if you can't emapthize or identify with any characters, don't you lose interest in the story?

(just asking, not sure myself)

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe bloodlust takes over and you just start watching to see when people will die

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

ILX in a nutshell. Oh wait.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 May 2004 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned has summed things up very well.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 24 May 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this call for some sort of "OMG IF ILX WUR TEH SOPRANOZ WHO'D BE WHO!!!11" thread, then?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

the Sopranos is such an overrated show! it's not a bad show most of the time, but it really doesn't interest me. goodfellas did it first and better, and in 2 1/2 hours.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i've enjoyed it less and less each season but this is true of most shows.

still love SFU though.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

when you don't like any of the characters, do you keep watching? why?

It is tragic in the sense that it evokes pity and fear. The characters are recognizably human and flawed. Their conflicts are ones of family and profession, lovers and family, and all the classic stuff. The Sopranos may not be of noble stock as Aristotle would have preferred, but Tony's status is analagous. I oftimes feel there is something wannabe Greek tragedy about the show, which is always fun. Love, sex, betrayal, murder, etc...another day at the opera. I stopped watching after the 3rd season and then got back into it a year later. As troubling and disturbing as it is, it is finely written, finely acted, finely shot, and clever, and that made it compelling enough to get back into it. Interestingly, now that I can watch it earlier, I find it haunts my sleep less, which makes me hesitate to watch it less.

If I am using my personal judgment, I would agree about how ugly everyone on the show is. I have suspended judgment in many cases, because, like a good novel, the Sopranos isn't trying to show us a normative example of suburban Jersey living it's trying to show us a sexed up version of the grit of real life.

The scene with Adriana and Christopher is so brutal because I did get a sense of their love for each other. A true but not all-conquering love. She has transgressed against omerta and knows her only hope for survival, not to mention happiness, once the Feds do their final screw-tightening is to get Christopher to cooperate and leave. She'll even put up with that terrible abuse to leave a life that is literally making her ill. Then Christopher's fatal flaw of pride and greed kick in when he's gassing up his SUV and she's done for. The show makes obvious the pain that both Christopher and Tony feel but show the rationalizing cowardice they both use to explain the inevitability of her death. Same with cousin Tony (Buscemi). Therein I believe lies the trouble I and others have with the show. In traditional tragedy there would be punishment and catharsis which would make watching all the pain and unpleasantness worthwhile and I am not at all convinced that Tony will ever grow into a more fully human person or get the justice he deserves. I'll give HBO the benefit of the doubt but like Johnson's description of a second marriage, this may be the triumph of hope over experience on my part.

SFU is a better show, IMHO.

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, what he said.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

OH MY GOD

Sorry, Bittorrent was slow.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 04:33 (twenty-two years ago)

did no one expect this? Come on.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 11:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked the springsteen reference.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

god that was awful

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 27 May 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

as in painful

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 27 May 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i should probably add that i really like this show, and for some stupid reason i was trying not to like it.

it isn't always formally impressive--there was some choppy shot/countershot stuff in the last episode when tony and his wife were having dinner. i only notice this because typically the show is extremely accomplished in that regard.

an interesting article: http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/03/29/sopranos_televisuality.html

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 31 May 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

ugh.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

ugh what? I held out on liking the sopranos till series 3. now i own series three on dvd.

― ENRQ (Enrique), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

season finale....ugh.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

finale was good. even thought it was all deus ex machina'd.

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Please, don't spoiler it here. We're not going to get it in the UK til September at the earliest.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

won't spoiler.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i won't spoil, but why read the thread then?

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i want to discuss it!

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

ok so let's announce SPOILERS BELOW

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I almost shit myself when I spotted the two guys coming out of the woods. I totally thought it was two of Johnny Sacks gorilla's coming for Tony. I also laughed my ass off at Johnny Sack falling in the snow.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

all i have to say is

VAN MORRISON

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

but really, the guys coming out of the woods, like i said above, was such a last minute deus ex machina thing.

but i do think they wrapped everything up pretty nicely, as opposed to leaving you hanging for the next year and a half.

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, yes. i hate the fact that its 18 months.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Monday, 7 June 2004 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

my hatred of sopranos ist eternal unending shite dead bitch etc.
Fattest soprano is repulsive stinking hippo's arse accident mess/fucking mistake

― LauraAlways, Monday, 7 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

haiku!

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 7 June 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

four months pass...

wow, penultimate episode ever last night

poor Adriana! the way the camera drifted off to the sky as Sylvio shot her so cold! Anthony and Tony's manner colder.

i missed a few episodes of this series - i missed Buscemi's whack! and i missed T's young squeeze getting burnt. what i've been wondering tho is was there ever any blowback about Ralphie?

Johnny Sack is just brilliant - obv. the acting throughout the show is great but watching this character grow and the performance is terrific. really enjoyed the confrontation between him and T by the bridge.

it feels like they can't tie everything up in just one more hour.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

talk to me (no last episode spoilers still!)

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

argh someone put a spoilers warning on this maybe please? Or has someone already... I'm waiting for the last season to come out on DVD before watching it.

― sgs (sgs), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry sarah, why aren't you watching it on TV (i know you watch SFU)?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Mark and I had just begun watching series 4 when 5 started airing, so made a decision to wait for the DVD and then binge. We often ask each other stuff like 'who's he? do we know him from another brief bit in an old episode?' etc and patience over a few plot threads usually yields some good results--I like watching them in order to pick up on all the subtleties that come through with close attention, and the characters that are introduced gradually. SFU I'm less picky about seeing out of order once in a while, somehow. (Anyway, didn't mean to stifle the thread. I'll forget my knowledge. Please continue!)

― sgs (sgs), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i've been quite lost with The Sopranos frequently over the years but it mattered less than with other shows because of the quality exerted.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Umm...am I missing something here or am I getting the impression that people seem to think this is the final seasonever? Because that's not true - season 6 is going into production in a few months.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh i was under the impression it was the last one (can't remember why anymore!), tho it didn't quite make sense (or did it? argh). sorry for the confusion.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Erm, weve been told continously by the papers/tv this was the last season, so someone's been screwing with us obviously

― Bumfluff, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

four more years!

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/about/index.shtml

Last paragraph.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to say I hope the last episode involved Dr Melfi.

Btw last week's dream episode was phenomenal. I love the dream episodes.

― Bumfluff, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

There's at least one more season but it won't be for ages

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd rather they made a movie. this latest series has been a little frustrating at times in the way it swiftly jumps from arc to arc, vignette to vignette, minor tasks being carried out - sometimes without actual dialogue. i know often they're laying the foundations plot-wise but it's often just dull. it's also frustrating when things are just left open - is that thing with Meadow's boyfriend and the gay builder guy dealt with?

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree with you stevem, in the last series the way the scenes overlapped seemed radical in their low-keyness but somehow "Just like life" (i know thats a wierd way to describe a mafia drama) but in this series the way things didn't get followed through seemed anticlimactic and frustrating at times.

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't remember that ever getting followed through w/S, I was annoyed too

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

It was originally planned for five series, but they were persuaded to stretch it to six - this might explain the rather bitty nature of this one, I don't know.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

i missed the first two seasons of this and have been catching up on "in demand". i just finished season two last night and i think season 2's finale was hysterical. tony puking and shitting his brains out, weird dreams of pussy as a fish, tony with a boner...and then the wacking of pussy.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i think you're right Martin - much of what we see seems designed to be climactic, but then isn't.

last episode was okay - i was actually quite moved by the distant children singing 'Mr Tambourine Man' in the school that Tony had sat down on the steps of to recover - very subtle. Tony and Carmela lying in bed thinking that AJ might be gay also funny. Sylvio is always interesting to watch in that he's NOT interesting, if you know what i mean, and the way they gently showed T getting annoyed with him, Paulie and several other people was neat.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The Paulie Walnuts/painting scence was fuckin hilarious! How are they so good at doing comedy gold like this without the dramatic mood of the show being affected? It's brilliant.

Rather pedestrian otherwise. I think the Adriana storyline should have had more impact, Tony should have been more affected by it ("she's a cunt").

The next series needs to be better or we'll all get a bit bored, I think. The supreme confidence the writers had in previous seasons seems to have gone. Do they know what to do with the characters anymore?

― Bumfluff, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

No I don't rate them

― Frank Swedehead, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

agree with bumfluff about the tony/adriana reaction. also it was weird that carmela asked tony if he thought adriana broke up with chris because she was seeing someone else - as if she'd forgotten about the rumour of adriana and tony himself (proven to be not true but still weird how it was forgotten about) - his face suggesting concern over whether she'd forgotten or not too it seemed (hell even he seemed to have forgotten what nearly happened).

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

RE: Meadow's boyfriend and the gay builder - wasn't getting engaged his get out? That said, it's yet another plot strand they may well pick up in S6.

Sopranoes vs SFU? First two seasons of SFU were outstanding, but it's run out of steam somewhat. Not as funny or as believable - this series was very dark indeed.
LAtest season of Sopranoes was magnificent, with a momentum the previous one lacked. (also not letting the guy who plays Chris write episodes helps. The one with all the issue based scenes where they start discussing Native Americans etc was really clumsy)

― stew s, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

That episode was awesome, if possibly not as awesome as the dream episode.

So who's the capo di cappi in the show now then? Little Carmine? Billy Leotardo? Tony? Or is this going to be our plot arc for series six? Alongside Meadow's boyfriend/gay builder, and either Chris shooting Paulie or vice versa.

"I didn't think it would matter since you never come round here no more T"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

When I first heard about this show I thought it sounded like a ripoff of Analyze This. I never paid any attention to it. Then it became the "best show ever" and I watched a couple episodes which were somewhat enjoyable (except I HATE the analyst - she is unbearable). I guess my problem is that mob movies/shows have never appealed to me. The first two Godfather movies are amazing and I love them, but I have never had any interest in any of the other ones. I guess I find them morally reprehensible - they posit an extreme capitalist vision that celebrates crime and rationalizes it because 'if I don't do it, somebody else will, and that somebody else is probably the government/police', which is just not the way I see the world.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The morals of the characters in a piece of fiction don't neccessarily reflect the morals of its author/s, you know. Particularly in the case of the Sopranos, in which everyone is shown to have a pretty miserable, screwed-up life. It's a study of what it takes for someone to reach such an extreme woldview rather than a celebration of that view.

― Wooden (Wooden), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that's a misreading of both The Godfather and The Sopranos (and Goodfellas actually). Mafia movies tend to be about immigrant alienation and the hypocrisy of the American Dream.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

xxpost:
I care nothing about the morals of authors (except for maybe Hitler), but I will acknowledge that the worldview in The Sopranos is more complex and questioning than something like Goodfellas. However, when I watch it I still feel like I'm wallowing.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost
Which is why I like The Godfather films because those themes (along with mythic family narrative - as opposed to serial soap opera). Much of the rest of the genre just seems mean-spirited; tired masochistic male tragedies which again rationalize bad behavior based on the perceived inevitablitiy of persecution, and the impossibility of improvement.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The Sopranos certainly doesn't rationalise the bad behaviour of Tony
and his other family. That's the point of the psychoanalysis plotline
it's constantly reminding us and Tony of the moral corruption he embraces, as well as the complexity of emotions/memories /impulses which have created his profile. In a way it undermines all the action and violence. Sometimes the show isn't afraid to portray something genuinely.....evil, acts committed by the protagonists we're supposed to empathise with. And we do.
A good deal of the show is about domestic life, it barely mythologises anything.

― Bumfluff, Tuesday, 9 November 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

eleven months pass...

I wasn't a big fan of the show till now, when I got season 3 DVDs from the library. The episode where Christopher and Paulie get lost in the woods is maybe the funniest thing I've ever seen. Ever.

― Leeeeeeeeee (Leee), Monday, 10 October 2005 05:09 (twenty years ago)

twelve years pass...

Tony's orgasms, good god

― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 24 July 2018 05:01 (seven years ago)

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